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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. This episode might make you hungry,

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Speaker 1: It might make you angry. If you hate catch up,

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Speaker 1: it might indeed make you angry. Shout out to our

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Speaker 1: super producer, Mr Max Williams. They called me Ben, They

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Speaker 1: called me Ben, and we've got a No, we've got

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Speaker 1: what may well be the first episode of a continuing

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Speaker 1: series here today a saga even perhaps, Uh my question

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Speaker 1: to you, though, Benn, as well, this episode make me hungry.

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Speaker 1: It may indeed may indeed. What's the difference between hungry

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Speaker 1: and hang gry? Noll? I think hungry. It is just

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Speaker 1: like a cutesie stylized way of texting someone that you're

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Speaker 1: you're hungry. Ah, yes, plaintively so I imagine. Indeed it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's no secret, folks, we love food on

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History. Uh, some of some of mine. I think

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Speaker 1: some of all of our favorite episodes are about weird

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Speaker 1: food history. And you know, if you think are on

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Speaker 1: air banter about food is a lot, maybe you should

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Speaker 1: hear us when the mics aren't rolling. We're just hanging

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Speaker 1: out getting lunch or something. This is a continuing series

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Speaker 1: on the history of condiments because uh, honestly, we read

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Speaker 1: a lot about it, way too much already outside of work.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't think of a better way to start than

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Speaker 1: with the at times controversial protagonists of all things American condiments.

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Speaker 1: Catch Up. Do you have catch up in your house? No? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do. Um. You know, it's actually I like to

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Speaker 1: put it on hot dogs, which I know Chicago and

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Speaker 1: UH would frown upon. Um. I like a good mix

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Speaker 1: of yellow mustard and ketchup on a on a dog.

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Speaker 1: I like catch up as a dipper for French fries.

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Speaker 1: I also really like it as a an ingredient for

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Speaker 1: barbecue sauce. You guys cool. If I tell a catch

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Speaker 1: up story real quick, please do so. A couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, you know, we're all Me and my buddies

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Speaker 1: were all big Atlanta baseball fans, and we were up

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Speaker 1: at Wrigley Field in Chicago to see, you know, Atlanta

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Speaker 1: play the Cubs, and it was really you know, fun,

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Speaker 1: exciting and stuff. But one day we're at Millennium Park,

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Speaker 1: you know, downtown Chicago. The Bean. Yeah, yeah, we're at

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Speaker 1: the Bean and we're walking around and you know, of

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Speaker 1: course we got some Chicago dogs. And I remember I

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Speaker 1: was there with my buddy Phil, who hates tomatoes but

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Speaker 1: for some reason like ketchup, and he's sitting there, not

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Speaker 1: sitting there, standing there with a vendor argument the vendor

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Speaker 1: like trying to get catch up. He's like, give me

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Speaker 1: some goddamn ketchup and the and the vendors like ketchup

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Speaker 1: is disgusting, whole tomatoes on your hot dog instead. I

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Speaker 1: just want to point that out because it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a It's interesting I get catch up more than just tomatoes.

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Speaker 1: That's stuff today. It's very divisive in Chicago, like their

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Speaker 1: anti ketchup on hot dogs. As you may well know,

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Speaker 1: a Chicago dog is mustard is the exclusive condiment in

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Speaker 1: addition to sports peppers, um a relish of some sort

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Speaker 1: of very like Neon green relish, a poppy seed bun,

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Speaker 1: slice of tomato, and a whole pickle, which is the

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Speaker 1: only part that I can't abide. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: I love a Chicago dog and I really do think

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Speaker 1: it's the best of dog. It's gotta be all beef

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Speaker 1: as well. That's the thing. I'm also interested in the

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Speaker 1: lamb icelandic hot dogs. Maybe that's an episode for another

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Speaker 1: day hot Dog. Yeah, I like talking about Iceland. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there we go. And the thing, you know, to your point,

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Speaker 1: max Um, you know what we'll find two is that

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Speaker 1: the ketchup and tomatoes couldn't be much more extricable. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like ketchup is two tomatoes what

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Speaker 1: grape flavoring is to grape. I really did. You don't

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Speaker 1: really get much tomato flavor from ketchup at all. It's

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Speaker 1: just kind of its own thing, and there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who prefer the fresh tomato approach to

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Speaker 1: catch up, just like there are a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who hate grape flavored stuff but love actual grapes. I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, doing research for this episode was

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Speaker 1: awesome because it finally allowed me to corral a bunch

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Speaker 1: of unrelated, irrelevant facts. Today, ketchup is no fooling and

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Speaker 1: around a little less than ninety seven percent of homes

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Speaker 1: throughout the United States as and that number is held

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Speaker 1: steady for quite a while. It's thrown on everything. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't know this, but secret of Thai

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Speaker 1: restaurants often is that ketchup is used as an ingredient,

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Speaker 1: and you might not know it if you haven't seen

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Speaker 1: how the pad tie gets made. Of course, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't like ketchup associated with pad tie, but

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Speaker 1: people are sensitive about condiments. Some folks hate ketchup. Some

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Speaker 1: folks say, you know, ketchup as a child's condiment, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's so sweet. Some love it, but it is

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Speaker 1: often the first condiment young kids in the US get

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Speaker 1: introduced to. And a lot of people, you know, you

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Speaker 1: think of ketchup, you think, okay, how old can it be?

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Speaker 1: But today we are going to explore the real story

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Speaker 1: of ketchup, the real origin story. Modern ketchup wasn't invented

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Speaker 1: until the early eighteen hundreds, but it starts way, way, way,

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Speaker 1: way before the world knew about tomatoes. Well, I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: to that will shed some light on the different spellings

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Speaker 1: of the condiment catchup stylized as you know, K A

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Speaker 1: T C H G P I get Maybe I'm getting

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Speaker 1: that wrong, versus cat soup K C A T S

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Speaker 1: U P. Yes, yes, okay, all right, yes, you're art

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Speaker 1: is something here, so okay, if we want to talk

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Speaker 1: about where ketchup comes from, we gotta just forget tomatoes,

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Speaker 1: will introduce them in a second. Tomatoes didn't get across

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Speaker 1: the oceans from South America until the fifteen hundreds or so,

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Speaker 1: which is why a lot of you know, you so,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people associated Italian cuisine with tomatoes, right,

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Speaker 1: but that wasn't a thing in the fourteen hundreds. And

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Speaker 1: even after Europeans knew about tomatoes, which they sometimes called

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Speaker 1: love apples, they wouldn't mess with them because they yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: true story. They they thought tomatoes were poisonous. The roots

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Speaker 1: of ketchup, which have nothing to do with tomatoes, start

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Speaker 1: all the way back in southern China, far back as

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Speaker 1: three d b C. In fact, where they were already

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Speaker 1: experimenting with flavor in some very interesting way is typically

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Speaker 1: doing ferments. You know, we know, uh, there are certainly

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Speaker 1: there's certainly a kind of modern hipster sort of scene

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Speaker 1: for fermented foods, everything from kim she too, pickled vegetables

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Speaker 1: to whatever it might be. And if you've looked into

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Speaker 1: the history of fermenting, it really is absolutely ancient. Um So,

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Speaker 1: there were all of these different fermented pastes that were

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Speaker 1: being developed, let's just say, back as far as three

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Speaker 1: B c e using things like awful you know, meat

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Speaker 1: by products that maybe weren't necessarily tasty on their own.

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Speaker 1: But surely there's something we can do with these if

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Speaker 1: we just you know, bury them in the dirt and

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Speaker 1: leave them for you know, six months, and then see

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Speaker 1: what happens. There was a lot of sea there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of see what happens mentality, things like fish in trails,

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Speaker 1: and of course staple crops like soybeans. Yeah, yeah, this uh,

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Speaker 1: this stuff is fish sauce. Fish sauce is hugely popular

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Speaker 1: throughout the Pacific, right And I don't know about you, guys.

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Speaker 1: I love a good fish sauce as well. I've got

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Speaker 1: some of my own favorites. But this fish sauce was

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Speaker 1: called cootsy up or get up, which I know sounds

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Speaker 1: a little like black lodge backwards speech, but that's spelled

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Speaker 1: ge dash th h c u p or koe dash

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Speaker 1: h e u p. And this comes from people who

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Speaker 1: spoke the Southern Men dialect. They loved this stuff because

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Speaker 1: you could store it on long ocean voyages. But this

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Speaker 1: wasn't the only kind of fermented fish stuff. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of parallel thinking in the world of food, especially

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Speaker 1: when people have access to the same ingredients. So other places,

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Speaker 1: other communities and civilizations that had maritime trade, they also

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Speaker 1: made fermented fish things, paste and sauces. Garum was a

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Speaker 1: fish sauce in the ancient Mediterranean. It was like the

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Speaker 1: fish flavored ketchup of the ancient Egyptians, Romans and Greeks.

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Speaker 1: But Europeans, the ones who were, you know, making contact

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Speaker 1: with the Pacific, they didn't really know about this when

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Speaker 1: they found the Chinese sauce. In fact, Europeans probably after

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Speaker 1: a while, forgot it was from China at all, because

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Speaker 1: it went from let's see, you went from southern China

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Speaker 1: to Indonesia and the Philippines, and that's where British traders

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Speaker 1: found it in the seventeen hundreds and it had a

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Speaker 1: nice bite. It lasted again for long arduous sea voyages.

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Speaker 1: Why why wouldn't you love it? So they took samples

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Speaker 1: home and they promptly began to tinker with the recipe.

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Speaker 1: We're getting into touchy subject here and ald because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about traditional British cuisine, which isn't for everybody. But

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying I can't blame them for getting excited

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Speaker 1: about something with you know, a little more flavor to it. Fish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to point out really quickly a question that

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Speaker 1: I had that maybe folks out there might have. Is

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Speaker 1: garum related to the Malaysian Indonesian you know, Indian word

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Speaker 1: garam like garam masala, which is a spice blend. Um.

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Speaker 1: Garam is apparently the word from that part of the

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Speaker 1: country for salt um. So that spice blend, you know,

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Speaker 1: is is kind of meant to impart a saltiness to it.

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Speaker 1: And obviously fish has that as well. But a book

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Speaker 1: called The Fisheries of the Oriental Region claims that this

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Speaker 1: is just kind of more of a strange coincidence rather

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Speaker 1: than an etymological shared root. Nice clearing it up. We're

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Speaker 1: going to clear up a lot of stuff, you know.

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Speaker 1: So the British folks loved this because they thought it

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Speaker 1: was a new interesting thing to add to the flavor

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Speaker 1: profile of their foods. Still no tomatoes though, because remember

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Speaker 1: a lot of people thought these were absolutely poisonous. The

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds are a weird golden age for catch up.

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Speaker 1: They called it spiced sauce and uh. They applied this

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Speaker 1: fermentation process to every kind of ingredient they could get

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Speaker 1: their hands on. If you look back at old school cookbooks,

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Speaker 1: you'll see people were making catch up out oysters, mushrooms, muscles, walnuts,

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Speaker 1: celery fruits like peach, ketchup, plum and ketchup, which doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem that weird. I just don't know if it's for

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Speaker 1: me necessarily, And they would The way they would do

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Speaker 1: it is they would boil this stuff down until it

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Speaker 1: was kind of syrupy, and they would put they would

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Speaker 1: salt it, and they would just leave it alone for

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Speaker 1: a long period of time and then you got kind

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Speaker 1: of what you've got what National Geographic describes as a

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Speaker 1: flavor bomb in a great article by Jasmine Wiggins. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the most important qualities of ketchup today is

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Speaker 1: that it is what is considered shelf stable. So you'll

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Speaker 1: notice that, like you know, at a lot of restaurants

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Speaker 1: and diners, the ketchup just sits out on the table

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Speaker 1: and they'll just refill these bottles and maybe they store

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Speaker 1: them in in refrigeration overnight. I don't know, but it

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Speaker 1: can sit out, you know, all day um without worry

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Speaker 1: about collecting bacteria or whatever. As long as it's air tight.

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Speaker 1: And that's because of this this process using the salt

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Speaker 1: essentially as a preservative. And as as we look at

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Speaker 1: this period of time, fellow ridiculous historians, you might guess

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Speaker 1: already if you just looked at this stuff in a

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Speaker 1: little ramikin, it is way different from the Hinds or

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Speaker 1: Hunts ketchup. You find shelf stable and preserved, like you said,

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Speaker 1: at grocery stores today. One recipe from seventeen thirty six said,

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Speaker 1: here's how you make ketchup. Swear to god this is true.

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Speaker 1: He said, take two quarts of really strong, stale beer,

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Speaker 1: and how off a pound of anchovies and boil it

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Speaker 1: and then leave it alone. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: want that on a hot dog. I don't know either.

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Speaker 1: But you know what that does sound a little bit

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Speaker 1: more like is something akin to like worcestersh sauce, you know,

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Speaker 1: which you obviously can use in different ways. You can

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Speaker 1: use as an ingredient, or you can, you know, put

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Speaker 1: it on fries like malt vinegar for example. Yeah it's great,

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Speaker 1: but I mean we're getting into this area where there

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Speaker 1: was a sort of version of this that would have

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Speaker 1: been more regional, like every kind of you know area,

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Speaker 1: maybe have their own version of this stuff depending on

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Speaker 1: the the ingredients that were available to them. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's what people had to do. Remember, there

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Speaker 1: weren't really global supply chains for fresh food or ingredients.

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Speaker 1: The only way you're eating fresh fish is if you

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Speaker 1: live near a place where you can get fresh fish.

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Speaker 1: So I have to pause and just ask a question

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Speaker 1: right now, and just let's go through a name some

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Speaker 1: of those different catch non tomato ketchup varieties and tell me,

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Speaker 1: let's tell each other together if you would try them?

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Speaker 1: All right? Number one lemon catch up? Yes or no?

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Speaker 1: I feel like it could go with some stuff. I

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Speaker 1: need more information. I lately have been I lately have

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Speaker 1: been using a lot of lemon, Like I'll cook rice

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Speaker 1: and use lemon zests and like squeeze of a lemon

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Speaker 1: in there. And I really like the brightness that a

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Speaker 1: lemon can add to a to a recipe. But do

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Speaker 1: I want a lemon sauce that sounds more like something

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Speaker 1: you put on a custard or you know, a cake,

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Speaker 1: rather than something you put with something savory, Because lemon

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Speaker 1: can be a very strong flavor. So even when I

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Speaker 1: put it in the rice. A whole giant pot of

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Speaker 1: rice will maybe only get the zest of half a

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Speaker 1: lemon and the juice of half a lemon. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I would assume that that that lemon catch up, by

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Speaker 1: its very nature of what the condiment kind of is,

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Speaker 1: would be very concentrated and probably a little much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would. I would, um, I use limon all the time,

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Speaker 1: lemons and lines when I'm cooking stuff, just for that

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Speaker 1: that bright central note. But I also go a little

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Speaker 1: slow with it. I've done homemade preserved lemons. They've got

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Speaker 1: a kick as well for lemon catch up. I would

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Speaker 1: think maybe seafood would go nice with like a seafood dish,

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Speaker 1: but you probably wanna treat it like concentrated coffee and

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Speaker 1: somehow dilute it. All right, we'll not catch up? What

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Speaker 1: do we think? You know? It's interesting this also makes

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Speaker 1: me think of like different kinds of bidders that you

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Speaker 1: put in cocktails. So there is like walnut bidders, you know,

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Speaker 1: and there's like lavender bidders and different ones like that.

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Speaker 1: And that's also a very strong, concentrated kind of additive

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Speaker 1: that you'd really just want to put a couple of

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Speaker 1: drops of in your in your cocktail. I do like

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Speaker 1: the flavor of walnut, and I like like walnut dressing,

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Speaker 1: you know, Thanksgiving or things that it adds a real

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Speaker 1: UMMMI flavor, which leads me to Mushroom ketchup is one

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Speaker 1: that I would definitely be down. I've had it. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty good. I had it. I couldn't imagine that it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be. Yeah, and then, of course, as any my

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Speaker 1: collogists can assure you people who study funus, um, it

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Speaker 1: depends on the type of mushroom, right, Uh, yeah, oyster catchup,

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Speaker 1: I would try it. I don't know if be a

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Speaker 1: go to. I've had banana ketchup before. I found it

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Speaker 1: pretty sweet. But that's what people were doing. They were

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Speaker 1: making it with whatever they had available and trusted already

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Speaker 1: as a food source. Here's an oyster catchup recipe that

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Speaker 1: uh that actually, let's let's give like three historic things.

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Speaker 1: The oyster ketchup recipe seems like pretty inefficient. Yeah. This

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Speaker 1: recipe that you're referencing, bend from the seventeen hundreds called

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Speaker 1: for one hundred oysters say, it seems like overkill. It

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Speaker 1: seems like you can accomplish it with fewer than a hundred.

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Speaker 1: But who am I to say, mixed with only three

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Speaker 1: pints of white wine, lemon peels, um with mace and clothes,

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Speaker 1: which I'm not crazy about, just in general that this

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Speaker 1: flavors not my bag. Um, I'm gonna say, how much

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Speaker 1: are you using this though? I mean a hundred oysters

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna have this for a while. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you're gonna be making this like once a week.

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Speaker 1: So oysters are just such a strong flavor. I just

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Speaker 1: don't understand why you would need so many. Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean you know that is how you make concentrate.

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Speaker 1: Usually it's with like a ton of the stuff and

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Speaker 1: then you're you're boiling it down to its essence, you know,

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Speaker 1: and making like this literal kind of tincture that that

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Speaker 1: just within it is contained the power of two hundred oysters. Ah, yes,

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Speaker 1: that is a superpower of an obscure comic book rope

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Speaker 1: and Max Williams that's his real dame of your heard

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Speaker 1: it here first, folks, there was commemorative catchup. The Prince

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Speaker 1: of Wales ketchup was made from elderberries and anchovies. Jane

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Speaker 1: Austin was down with ketchup. In addition to writing Pride

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Speaker 1: and Prejudice, she liked to talk about how cool mushroom

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Speaker 1: ketchup was. But again, this stuff was more. It was

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Speaker 1: thinner than the ketchup you c today. It was dark,

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Speaker 1: and it was often added into like soups and sauces.

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Speaker 1: So to our point about concentration of flavor, this was

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Speaker 1: diluted in other things more like a hot sauce. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you might dash into something, you know, rather than dip

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Speaker 1: almost yeah, yeah, yeah, And I don't know where it

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Speaker 1: is in terms of concentration compared to say, sesame oil,

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Speaker 1: which I think is amazing and I probably used too

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Speaker 1: much of it, but my girlfriend is disgusted by the

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Speaker 1: smell of sesame oil. Really, I get it for you guys. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: it is strong and it's it's I wouldn't necessarily use

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Speaker 1: it as liberally as you might olive oil. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's more of flavoring than like an oil to cook with. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I so maybe I've gone overboard within the past. But

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Speaker 1: I got a really great, um little kit from Momofuku

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Speaker 1: that included a little bottle of toasted sesame oil their

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Speaker 1: restaurant grade. Soy sauce and um a restaurant what they

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Speaker 1: call restaurant grade rice wine, vinegar, and then a bunch

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Speaker 1: of their chili crisp condiments that are just fantastic. And

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Speaker 1: the toasted sesame oil, you know, the bottles are they

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Speaker 1: have those little little daub little daver kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: so it really just dispenses in drops rather than like

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Speaker 1: filling a pan with it to like fry something. That's

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Speaker 1: the way to do it. To illustrate the picture for

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Speaker 1: for you guys, I I know I sent you my

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Speaker 1: uh my survivalist level collection of noodles. I have too much,

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Speaker 1: but I also have like a little gas can basically

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Speaker 1: of sesame oil. And it's not the first one I've

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Speaker 1: gone through. But you can make sess me catchup or

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Speaker 1: sess me flavored catchup, which I've done and it slaps.

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Speaker 1: I have no regrets. But now I think it's time

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Speaker 1: to introduce the star of our show. This guy has

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Speaker 1: been waiting for the right moment to stroll onto the stage,

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Speaker 1: and that moment has arrived. Let's hear it for today's protagonist.

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Speaker 1: You might know it, you might love it, you might

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Speaker 1: hate it. Ridiculous historians, Today's story the tomato Jersey Tomato

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Speaker 1: Man and idol Hope Potato on a New York Central train.

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Speaker 1: They no sooner left the station when they started conversation.

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Speaker 1: The Jersey tomato and the idle Hope Potato had no

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Speaker 1: reason to complain. Going west, they got to kiss and

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Speaker 1: through the fields of golden grain. That Jersey blood and

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Speaker 1: country smile put stars in those hid who eyes, and

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Speaker 1: the little coach made every mile seemed like it was paradise.

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Speaker 1: The wheels were ago, and then the whistle was blown

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Speaker 1: to the tune of Love's refrain. Tomato married the potato.

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Speaker 1: They have a tom tato with a little too to trade.

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Speaker 1: This is yeah, this is where he used to Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I used to hate tomatoes

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Speaker 1: with a passion, and my mom loved them and would

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Speaker 1: just eat them by the slice, you know, just fresh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: little salt and pepper maybe, But once presented me with

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Speaker 1: it at the dinner table with a plate of sliced tomatoes,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't let me leave until I'd eaten one. And I did,

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Speaker 1: and then I also proceeded to vomit all over the table.

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Speaker 1: Oh jeez, you never tried that again. But now I

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Speaker 1: love them. I still won't really eat them on their own.

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Speaker 1: I need them to be salted and seasoned and on

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Speaker 1: a sandwich or you know, stewed or whatever it might be.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not nearly as averse to them as I

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Speaker 1: once was. That sense memory can be tough. And also

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Speaker 1: catch up catchup that was very pepper heavy, was a

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Speaker 1: common favorite during the Civil War, and even it's catch

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Speaker 1: up at such a weird history. So the tomato, though,

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Speaker 1: the tomato is to catch up today, what like it's

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Speaker 1: what electric guitars are to rock music. You can have

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Speaker 1: catch up without tomatoes, just like you can have rock

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Speaker 1: music without electric guitar, obviously, but for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people these seem like fundamental ingredients to their creation. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a fair analogy. And we mentioned tomatoes were

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Speaker 1: considered poisonous by Europeans for a long time. Historians suspect

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Speaker 1: that may have something to do with the acidity of

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Speaker 1: a tomato. It was messing with the lead pewter plates,

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Speaker 1: and so you would you would see, uh, this lead,

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Speaker 1: of course gives rise to lead poisoning, but you would

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Speaker 1: see the tomato touching of plates and it might mess

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Speaker 1: with the appear and so honored people might get sick,

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Speaker 1: so they avoided it until the first known tomato catchup

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Speaker 1: recipe appears. It's eighteen twelve. There's a scientist in horticultural listening,

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Speaker 1: James Mease. He calls tomatoes love avils. Please list don't

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Speaker 1: touch me tomato, please don't touched the domainto touch me,

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Speaker 1: y Amy puck potato. Don't goodness sake, don't touch me tomato.

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Speaker 1: And he put booze in his null that's right. He

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Speaker 1: puts meato pulp and like a secret spice blend and

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Speaker 1: a bit of brandy, which imagine would ultimately go on

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Speaker 1: to be replaced with vinegar, which this recipe did not have,

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Speaker 1: nor did it have sugar. But he was ahead of

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Speaker 1: the curve because he first mentioned this idea of way

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Speaker 1: back in eighteen o four, before he even popularized the recipe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the brandy part might be a little bit shocking today,

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Speaker 1: but there was a precedent because people have been you know,

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Speaker 1: like in those earlier recipes we named pre tomato ketchup,

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Speaker 1: people were putting white whack plan in there and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Tim and Eric. But I you know,

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Speaker 1: I imagine there are still simmering this down. Uh, so

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Speaker 1: the alcohol content would would be cooked out right, It

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Speaker 1: was more for the flavor and the preservative quality. Great point,

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Speaker 1: and I like that. You also point out that he

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Speaker 1: mentions the idea first in eighteen o four. This is

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Speaker 1: the reason food historians like Andrew F. Smith, who wrote

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Speaker 1: a book called Pure Ketchup, a History of America's National

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Speaker 1: Condiment with recipes. This is the reason Smith says Mice

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00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: probably saw French creole refugees from the Haitian Revolution making

400
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: something like this sauce. He got the idea from somewhere, right,

401
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: And if you just based on you know what, what

402
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: you had presented as that a original recipe, well, it

403
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: seems like this would be something almost closer to a

404
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Speaker 1: spicy like a Marian era, a spicy tomato sauce, because

405
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 1: it didn't have that stuff you're mentioning, vinegar. Vinegar is

406
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: the next key ingredient. Before vinegar was added in the mix,

407
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: it was really difficult to preserve tomato based sauces. They decompose,

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00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: they break down too quickly. Even now, if you take

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Speaker 1: a fresh tomato and you don't do any weird magic

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00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: to it, Uh, that tomato is gonna rot pretty soon, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you've seen it. Anybody who's bought fresh tomatoes.

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Speaker 1: You put them somewhere and then you're like the countdown begins. Yeah,

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00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: even if it's just like in one little spot, it

414
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Speaker 1: starts to get soft, you know, And and the frugal

415
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: gourmet is among us. Surely have encountered a tomato that

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00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: was just experiencing a little bit of rot and maybe

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00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: sliced off that side and use the intact parts. I'm

418
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: not ashamed. Yeah, but they are, you know, they're already

419
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Speaker 1: kind of saw. Then it's the kind of thing that

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00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: when you're in the grocery store, when you squeezing tomatoes,

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00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: you want to know that it's not too soft, because

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00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: the software is when you get it. I mean, it

423
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: is interesting how the when we talk about a fruit

424
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: being ripe, that is also a term we used to

425
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: describe a corpse that is rotting and beginning to stink.

426
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: And the closer you get to peak ripeness is also

427
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: the closer you get to the beginning of rottenness. Yes, yes,

428
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: well put you can of course preserve tomatoes other ways

429
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: people can can tomatoes, but you can also preserve them

430
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: by making Ketchup. So until the preservation in the vinegar

431
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: really hits. There's a problem with Ketchup. You can't trust

432
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Ketchup for at least a lot of us consumers say

433
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: both the pro and the amateur ketchup makers were struggling

434
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 1: to make sure you can stelete the stuff over time.

435
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: This meant that they were all kind two sketchy preservatives

436
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: that were put into it to make up for the

437
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: fact that sometimes they were using not the best tomatoes. Right,

438
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: you start with bad ingredients. You can get a bad dish.

439
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Sodium bends away, coal tar, that's I know. Uh, And

440
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: so a lot of people were distrustful of this. People

441
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: had bought bad ketchup bottles before. So the Hinz company

442
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: takes the next step around eighteen seventy six. They are

443
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: the ones who make a formula that has tomatoes, brown sugar, salt.

444
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: Like we said an earlier example of mixed tape of

445
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: various spices and distilled vinegar. No, this is also the

446
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: company that introduces glass bottles. What a coup because now

447
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: you know, you're like you're at the grocer or whatever

448
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: you're buying catchup and you want to go for the

449
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: stuff that you can see before you buy it, so

450
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: it's no longer caveat and tour. They also call that

451
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: cats up. Going to your original question earlier, M, Yeah,

452
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: it really does just become kind of a branding play

453
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: to a certain degree. And by the way, Hines another example,

454
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: UM similar to three M where they're filling a need

455
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: for a thing that is now it has it's popular,

456
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: or the idea of it is popular, or the need

457
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: for it is popular, but no one's cracked the code

458
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: on it yet, and then they were essentially first to

459
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: market with the most recognizable and successful version of a thing.

460
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: And therefore also like Henry Hines, who's the founder of Hines,

461
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: great grandfather something like that of of Teresa Hines carry

462
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: John Carey's wife, so an absolute legacy, um, you know,

463
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: American family, um with massive, massive wealth. Yeah, no kidding, right,

464
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: And here's the thing they originally had called this stuff catsup.

465
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: Hines had What is the difference between cats up with

466
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: a C and catch up with a K. Well, they're

467
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: just different terms referring to the same condiment. Everybody, I

468
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: think knows that at this point. But it's more complicated

469
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: because there have been a lot of names referring to

470
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: this stuff over the years. Quick list to see if

471
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 1: any of these give everybody a chuckle uh warning they

472
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: get kind of susian. Here there's cat chop corn chop,

473
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: get zip cat soup, which sounds gross, catch shoop cot

474
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: pock cuts, puck cutch puck, and more. That's just a

475
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: list of a few. It's like a Willie Wonka song.

476
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: After a certain point, sure is um and again it's

477
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: sort of like a word that was already kind of

478
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist. Then you just kind of have to

479
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: create your own style on and the spelling, sort of

480
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: like sello tape versus Scotch tape or whatever, you know,

481
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: combining allaphane with tape and changing the letter. If you

482
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: get to it early enough, you can create a branding

483
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: that then becomes the stand in for like every other

484
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: version of the thing, exactly exactly, the catch up by

485
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: any other name, like a rose by any other name

486
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: would still taste is sweet. Hines did not start with

487
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: just one recipe. He had several let's call him drawing

488
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: board attempts. One of the first recipes had all spice clothes.

489
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm with you, guys, I'm not a big clothes fan, Uh, cayenne, pepper, mace,

490
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: and cinnamon. But then he did a different approach just

491
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: for comparison or contrast, I should say, uh, there's another

492
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: recipe that at pepper, ginger, mustard, seeds, celery, salt, horseradish,

493
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: and brown sugar. So he was all over the place.

494
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: You know, you gotta try a bunch of different things,

495
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: just like our pal from the story about Scotch tape.

496
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: But there is something always mystified me as a kid,

497
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: and I suspect him not alone in this Hines fifty

498
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: seven catch up doesn't mean there are fifty seven different

499
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: types of ketchup or more. Does it mean it's the

500
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: fifty seven product that old Henry J. Hines made. No,

501
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: by the time they started putting fifty seven on the bottles,

502
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: they already had more than sixty different things that were

503
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: making the number fifty seven happens. Because all right, here's

504
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: the idea of the story. It's or so right. Before then,

505
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: he is riding a train in New York City and

506
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: he sees this advertisement for a shoe store that says,

507
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: we have twenty wanton styles of shoes, and he thinks, oh,

508
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: that's cool. Specificity. So again according to the lore uh,

509
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: and you can find this on the Hines website too,

510
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: he just sort of picked the numbers five and seven

511
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: because they were he and his spouse's favorite numbers. They

512
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: like the sound of them. And he said he would

513
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: later say, I did this because quote the psychological influence

514
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: of that figure and it's enduring significance to people of

515
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: all ages. So is he like a numerologist at this point?

516
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: I think he was just reading the tea leaves of

517
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: of of commerce. Uh. In many ways, he was just

518
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: a really smart kind of brander and and uh, you know,

519
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: I think having that number it is interesting. It sort

520
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: of reminds me of Basket Robbins and their thirty one flavors.

521
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: And with that though, it makes a little more sense

522
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: because it was a flavor for every day of the month. Yeah. Yeah, no,

523
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: that way makes way more sense. That's based on something

524
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: other than you know what number. I like five? Oh,

525
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: I like the number seven. I think we're done here.

526
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: That's kind of what happens. So this is also seven

527
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: is a cool looking number, that's is five. Yeah, and

528
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: they do style it pretty nicely with the font, Like

529
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: the seven is very sharply drawn. You know, it really

530
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,239
Speaker 1: does have like a very striking look to it, and

531
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 1: it's it's it's just like a striking thing fifty seven.

532
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: It's just it's got it's got power to it. If

533
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: you ask me, there's a lot of power and specificity.

534
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: That's why I love there's a lot of Asian food.

535
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: I love where there are numbers in in the name

536
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: of the food. I'm a sucker for that because it

537
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: sounds almost more scientific, you know, it sounds established distinguished

538
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: as the word I'm looking for, like a Chinese five

539
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: spice for example, you know, yeah, or like three cup

540
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: chicken another great idea, but that's because you use roughly

541
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: a cup of a different three different ingredients. But this

542
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: is not Heinz's biggest breakthrough. That it's a marketing breakthrough,

543
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: to be sure, But one of his big breakthroughs was

544
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: not using crap tomatoes. These are riper tomatoes because they

545
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: add more plentiful natural pecton. This helped with the quality

546
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: and the preservation. But although it seems obvious now, people

547
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about it at this time. And then

548
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: as a result of this, over the years, catch up

549
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: becomes more and more popular throughout the US and Europe.

550
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: By h five Highs alone has sold five million bottles

551
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: of ketchup, and so many other people get into the mix,

552
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: and they're trying to differentiate themselves, which is why you

553
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: have all those other silly not quite catch up names

554
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: in history in the record. And around this time to

555
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: while all this has happening, we see a sea change,

556
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: or we see a condiments shift. It becomes easier and

557
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: easier to buy ketchup that doesn't seem poisonous or taste terrible,

558
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: and so people stopped making it at home. People started saying, hey,

559
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: the homemade catchup I make just doesn't doesn't taste right,

560
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: it's not as good. So then as a as now, honestly,

561
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: people have decided, if you can buy shelf stable ketchup,

562
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: why would you go to all the problems of making it.

563
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: As a result, US folks purchase about, what is it,

564
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: ten billion ounces of ketchup every year. That's about three

565
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: bottles per person. Yeah, that's true. It reminds me of

566
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: like on Great British Baking Show when they're like, we

567
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: want you to make a digestive biscuits and everyone's like,

568
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: basically a digestive biscuit is sort of the British equivalent

569
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: of like a Graham cracker kind of. But usually the

570
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,479
Speaker 1: responses I've never made that before because no one would

571
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: ever make that, because it's much cheaper just to buy

572
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: the branded ones from the store, and they're better than

573
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: the ones I would make, and it's a pain in

574
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: the butt. So it really became you know, yeah, if

575
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: you give people a choice that's affordable and higher quality

576
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: or at least better tasting, because it's not like you

577
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: know exactly what's in it, especially when it comes to

578
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: that secret packet of herbs and spices, then they're going

579
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: to choose that most every time. Yeah, exactly. It goes

580
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: into convenient and consistency. And this is why now it's impossible.

581
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: It's virtually impossible to imagine catch Up being anything other

582
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: than bright red and tomatoy, despite the history we all know.

583
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: And I would say, it's almost weird not to see

584
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: ketchup in someone's house. And there are some restaurants where

585
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect to find it, right, but most restaurants

586
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: have some version. You know, you might go to a

587
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: really really fancy steakhouse that looks down on you for

588
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: having ketchup with the steak. People are particular about that well,

589
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: like Donald Trump, for example, is infamous for liking his

590
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: steaks well done, which is a travesty to any you know,

591
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: steak house proprietor you know of note, and also with ketchup,

592
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: there's jokes been made in plenty of TV shows and

593
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: movies where you got some person, you know, fish out

594
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: of water kind of story going to a fancy restaurant

595
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: and requesting ketchup to it's the maitre d or waiter

596
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, gasps and clutches their pearls exactly exactly, or

597
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: very fancy Japanese steakhouses where you can only order you know,

598
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: one or two particularly cuts of steak and it is

599
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: only served with a dab of mustard. Otherwise you're a philistine.

600
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: I think you know, Noel Max, I think it's time

601
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: for us to get a little bit into the science.

602
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: So we've established that ketchup has these the roots of ketchup,

603
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: the predecessor of these ancient origins. In the Netherlands, there's

604
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: a sauce called ket yap k e t j a p.

605
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: It's an Indonesian soy sauce, but when you pronounce the

606
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: name is very similar to catch up. And uh, if

607
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: you look at how it's made now, you'll see it

608
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: varies per brand and type, but in general they do

609
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: some of the same stuff. They wash tomatoes, they ground

610
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: them up to a fine consistency, and while they're doing

611
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: this they remove some of the water. Water is an

612
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: enemy of ketchup, and sadly, like tomato is water. Yeah.

613
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: It's so interesting too, because I mean I made the

614
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: authentic comment at the top of the show that to me,

615
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: ketchup doesn't taste like a tomato at all. It's sort

616
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: of like, you know, grape flavoring, not tasting like a grape.

617
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: But there are tons of fresh tomatoes in a bottle

618
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: of of Hinds tomato ketchup, but it just kind of

619
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: becomes its own thing. But to that point, a hundred

620
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: and forty eight grams of tomatoes are used to make

621
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: just a hundred grams of the products. Yeah, yeah, maybe

622
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: that kind of answers our oyster question too. I mean

623
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: you yeah, yeah, you might. Uh well, the oyster ratio

624
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: was was a bit egregious. Yeah, so not at augh. Okay,

625
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: all right, well, old Max Oyster Williams is coming through

626
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: uh to maintain quality. We're just gonna We're gonna get

627
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: you an oyster subscription for Christmas Man. So you might

628
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: think catch up is a good way to use old

629
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: or low quality tomatoes, but it looks like that's not

630
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: the case here. If you want tomatoes for ketchup, you

631
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: want to harvest them in their prime and you want

632
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: to get them from harvest to production in a really

633
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: short amount of time. So big tomato ketchup brands will

634
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: often have contracts with tomato growers and say like, okay,

635
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: every season, every tomato season, you give us x amount

636
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: of your crop or maybe even all of it. And

637
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: farmers will typically say yes to that if they can

638
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: get good terms because they guarantee someone will buy the tomatoes.

639
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: So if you look at the main two ingredients, we

640
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: nailed them we as society. It took a second. But

641
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: the other two main ingredients vinegar sugar. You need these

642
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: to preserve the catchup. It's not just about the taste.

643
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: You're making sure the tomato bit doesn't spoil. And it

644
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: gets and will get into the science a little bit

645
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: about water activity. So water activity is a thing that

646
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: you need to know to understand how food spoils. So

647
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: low water activity means it's tougher for micro organisms to

648
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: contaminate and consume food. Well, just just think about like

649
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: standing water. For example, you know you're gonna get mosquitoes,

650
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: it's gonna start to smell if it's just sitting there.

651
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: So essentially, you know, water in a sealed environment is

652
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: the equivalent of standing water. You know, um, it's it's

653
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: obviously sealed, but it is going to make it more

654
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: prone to growth of of microorganisms and bacteria and molds

655
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: and things like that that are going to you know,

656
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: spoil the food. And the lower the water content, the

657
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: less likely um it will spoil in that way. So

658
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: like a low water activity, something close to zero means

659
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: there's not much available water. Higher value closer to one

660
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: means there's a lot. So when you're looking at pathogenic

661
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: micro organisms, the stuff that makes you feel poorly, stuff

662
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: that makes you sick, then we see that those little

663
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: buggers need a high water activity. And the water activity

664
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: of a fresh tomato is very close to one because

665
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: it contains so much water, but catchup has a water

666
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: activity closer to point nine three. Thanks to that sugar,

667
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: and thanks to that salt, this is still high enough

668
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: for a lot of micro organisms to grow. If you

669
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: put enough salt and sugar into these things to stop

670
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: all the growth, that catch up woulden taste very good.

671
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: So they he started like think of it. Think of

672
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: these preservatives not as a wall stopping all microorganisms. Think

673
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: of them as speed bumps that get higher hurdles that

674
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 1: the microorganism has to cross to grow. The next hurdle

675
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 1: is the pH value. Low pH value. Means of food

676
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: is acidic. Tomatoes by themselves acidic. Everybody knows. That's why.

677
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: I for're making a tomato sauce and you want to

678
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,959
Speaker 1: reduce the acidity, you just pop a carrot in there

679
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: while you're cooking it and take the carrot out bai leaf.

680
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: Yes way, yes way. Yeah, it's very interesting. So with

681
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: that being said, um, why isn't there like an acidic

682
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: super vinegary kick when you, you you know, squirt some ketchup

683
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: on a fry. You know what? It's because of that sugar,

684
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: the oysters and the oysters max and the oysters. The

685
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: sweetness of the sugar helps mitigate or hide the acidity

686
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: of the vinegar. Nowadays, Honestly, a lot of ketchup manufacturers

687
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: will skip part of the process, so they'll have their

688
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,479
Speaker 1: tomato harvesters take care of an initial step and they'll

689
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: just buy tomato paste or puree and convert that into ketchup.

690
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: That makes it easier. They just have to mix their

691
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: own ingredients to make the recipe, cook it, cook it down,

692
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: and fill it into packaging. But now I think we

693
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: need to talk about the color briefly, off Mike. In

694
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: times past, I think we've we've talked about that weird

695
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: period of time not too long ago here in the

696
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: US where different ketchup manufacturers were like, let's make it.

697
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: What green purple? Was that one? Yeah, it's bizarre. It

698
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: was like I think it was a hyans thing, and

699
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: I think you can still get them maybe, but I

700
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: just don't think who asked for that. That's sort of

701
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: the question there, you know, like who is this for?

702
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: I guess kids, But even with kids, the red color

703
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: is part of the comfort level, And it's sort of

704
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: like if you drink a thing that you think is

705
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: to be sprite, but then it turns out to be

706
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: soda water, it breaks your brain a little bit. So

707
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: the expectation of what the color of ketchup is versus

708
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: what the taste is. I think it's part and parcel

709
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: of the whole experience. So when you change one of

710
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: those elements, it can throw the whole thing off psychologically.

711
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: So it doesn't it doesn't surprise any of us. I

712
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: think that multicolored ketchups didn't really take off. But as

713
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: bright red as ketchup is, you would think that they were,

714
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: you know, stack in the deck a little bit. But

715
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: in fact, because they are using such fresh tomatoes, limiting

716
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: exposure to air which would prevent oxidation and therefore like

717
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: browning of the tomatoes, it gets that color pretty honestly, Yeah,

718
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: it does. Ketchup doesn't actually need a bunch of additional

719
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: colorance to be red. Use bright red tomatoes, you get

720
00:44:53,520 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: a bright red ketchup tomato. Some bullsh to red tomato.

721
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 1: Red tomato, my right, tomato. You can't pike micromato because

722
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: of the lycopene that's part of the tomatoes. That's what

723
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: makes them red themselves. And actually catch up processors try

724
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: not to use iron processing equipment because that can damage

725
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: the red color. They also try to prevent a lot

726
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: of oxygen exposure, because you know how apples freshly sliced

727
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: can turn brown when yeah, yeah, so tomatoes can turn

728
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: brown if they're exposed to a lot of oxygen and

729
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: you know, as they being cut up. But this Isn't

730
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: there a way to prevent apples from turning brown by

731
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: like putting a slice of lemon in with them or

732
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: something like that, or there's something that you can do

733
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: to keep them from turning brown lemon juice. Huh, I'm

734
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: looking that up. That's right. I think you're right. Also,

735
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: weirdly um avocados, as we know, you know, go from

736
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: being delightful and and and bright green to turning brown

737
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: very quickly too. But if you keep the pit inside

738
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: the half of the avocado you haven't used yet, it

739
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: will keep its uh it's color. Yeah. You can also

740
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: do that by putting them in a brown paper bag.

741
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: Is that weird? Uh? So we're so. I hope uh

742
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: someone is listening to this while they're cooking. Don't put

743
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: ketchup in your pad tie. Just know that's a trick

744
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: people do. We thought what better way to end today's

745
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: episode by doing just some tangents, a little bit of trivia.

746
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: This is the kind of stuff that we find in

747
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: our research that doesn't make it into the narrative but

748
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: captivates Noel and Maximize so much we want to tell

749
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: you about it. There is a retroactively applied reason for

750
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: the Hines fifty seven brand. They made a reason for

751
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: exist other than I like numbers. Uh, And it's this

752
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: hind spokesman a few years back told today Food the

753
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: way to get ketchup out of the bottle efficiently. There's

754
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: a sweet spot, you know, the the logo is kind

755
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: of on the neck of the bottle. What you have

756
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: to do is put a firm tap where the bottle narrows,

757
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 1: pop it on that fifty seven logo, and the catchup

758
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: comes out more easily. I had never heard this. Have

759
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 1: you ever heard of this? And not? Well, we're full

760
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: and Max is shaking his head. No, guys, we can't.

761
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: We can't regret the times we couldn't get to catch

762
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: up out. Now we just look forward to the future.

763
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: And I tried this over the weekend and it it

764
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: does work a little better. Still. Another interesting thing you

765
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: may be surprised we haven't mentioned already, is that Hyans

766
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: also invented probably no surprise, the catchup packet, the ubiquitous

767
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: catchup packet. It makes sense because while you know, certain

768
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: types of places that are going for more of an

769
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 1: old timey vibe and they even refill these still use

770
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: the glass bottles, like diners and such, if you're working

771
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: on a larger scale, it's probably more cost effective and

772
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: they'll be less like what's the word breakage? Literally, uh,

773
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: if you get shipped just thousands of little individually wrapped

774
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: ketchup packets, and Hines figured out how to do that,

775
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: creating that foil wrapper back in nineteen um and you know,

776
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: you will occasionally see ones of those that have leaked,

777
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: but it's much better to have a little bit of

778
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: leakage from what is ultimately a tiny amount of the

779
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: juice than shards of broken glass and gross sticky ketchup,

780
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, all over a shipment because a glass bottle

781
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 1: broke or multiple Also a little more detail in that

782
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: statistic we kicked at the beginning, If every household had

783
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: a fourteen ounce bodily catch up, the combined weight of

784
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: all the catch up in the United States in those

785
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: houses would be fifty four thousand tons heavier than the Titanic.

786
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: That's a lot of catchup. I still I'm thinking, like

787
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: I found different different statistics for how many pounds to

788
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: catch up people eat. I don't know if we can

789
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: trust it all, so let's skip that part. But we

790
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: can say, andy, on a good note, as we love

791
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: to do, catch up might just be able to help

792
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: you live a little bit longer, because that likecopene, the

793
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: stuff that gives it that color, has also been linked

794
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: to reducing the risk of cancer, and it has the

795
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: potential to turn you into a werewolf. Yes, like like copen,

796
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: is that the same route as like canropy? Absolutely? I

797
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: do have one parting note for us, and it is,

798
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: of course the colored catch chips. I looked them up.

799
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: They were the blasting green and funky purple, and I'll

800
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: tell you right now, I found a photo of the

801
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: funky purple fries and I have to like turn it

802
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: off periodically because I don't know if you guys have

803
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: seen me over here, but I've been uh feeling so

804
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: not feeling so well because it is like the most

805
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: disgusting thing I've every What you call it funky? What

806
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: implies that it has spoiled? You call it something? What's

807
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: the other one? Blasting green they didn't even get Like,

808
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 1: blasting green sounds like a euphemism for throwing up. Yeah,

809
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: that that's what I'm That's what I'm about I do

810
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: from looking at this funky purple on some fries right here,

811
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: funky purple, Yeah, it sounds way more like the street

812
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: name didn't even get a literation done. And yet and

813
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: not not to ruin catch up for anybody, but it

814
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: really does go to show the psychological power of catchup

815
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 1: and then the legacy hold that it has on our

816
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: kind of psyche because so many people are like averse

817
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 1: to anything that even resembles blood, and yet they'll fully

818
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: go to a baseball game and slather a basket of

819
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: fries with what essentially looks like blood. Branding is so important.

820
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: That's why, that's why Coca Cola is never going to

821
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: change that red color, even though people don't associate red

822
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: with satisfying drink unless it's soda. Uh So here we here,

823
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna call it today in the first part of

824
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: our ongoing mission to explore the history of condiments, we

825
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: want to hear what you think, folks, What should we

826
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: cover next? Actually, we want to hear from you, But

827
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: I also particularly want to hear from you know, and

828
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: you Matt, should we do the Should we do the

829
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: basic thing and go for mustard, like yellow and brown mustard,

830
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,439
Speaker 1: or should we should we switch it up and find

831
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: a different condiment. I don't know, man, I think, yeah,

832
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: hot sauce is great. I do think mustard doesn't need

833
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: because it occup pies a similar kind of American you know,

834
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: staple condiment realm as as ketchup. But obviously we know that,

835
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, there are fancy mustards and and that is

836
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: really something that ketchup doesn't have. So while there's the

837
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: basic yellow mustard frenches or whatever it might be, there's

838
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: also like Dijon mustard and and great poupa, and then

839
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: like really fancy mustards you'd get like on a charcouter

840
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 1: board or you know, more bespoke mustards. So I vote

841
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: we just follow it right up with mustard. I will counter.

842
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: I think, I mean this is from the years of

843
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: restaurant management. We gotta go with the godfather of all condiments,

844
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: which is the incredibly diverse of Mayo is in so

845
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: many things, and people don't want to. But I have

846
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,439
Speaker 1: a buddy who, to the state, will not eat mayo

847
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: and will just slather honey mustard on everything, and I

848
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: don't want to. I feel them many times, like you

849
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: know what the primary greunion and of honey mustard is, right,

850
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: And then there's also a oli, which is what you

851
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: call mayo when you want people to pay more for it.

852
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: There's also when you say, I don't want to lose

853
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: this nol. Have you heard of most start to It's

854
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: not mustard? I just I just it was over pronouncing mostard,

855
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 1: but no, tell me about it's a. It's a It

856
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: does have a mustard flavored syrup, but it's an Italian

857
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: condiment made with candied fruit and mustard syrup. Most start up.

858
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. I'm not sure about

859
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: that one. I know I'm on the fence about buying

860
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: a bottle. But if we can call it for research purposes,

861
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 1: I think we should get together and try it before

862
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 1: we before we do the next episode. But yeah, awesome,

863
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: let's do it. Uh the eyes have it will go

864
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: to mustard, then we'll go to mayonnaise. Uh, and you

865
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: know we'll have to get hot sauce, which is probably

866
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: gonna be a two part or spoiler because we got

867
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: we all have feelings about that one. But in the meantime,

868
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: thank you so very much to our super producer, Mr

869
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: Max Williams. Thank you to Henry J. Hindes. Thank you

870
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed our track. Who else, who else?

871
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: Who else? Who else? Oh, thanks for talking food with me. No,

872
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: it's crazy that, Like sometimes we will just have food

873
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 1: conversations and then later we will go back and think,

874
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: should we have recorded that? Should that have been an episode? Hey,

875
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: you know there's always time to put that practice into practice,

876
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: am I? Right there? We go? Yeah, agreed? Uh, And

877
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: speaking of practice, we'll need to have our nemesses Jonathan

878
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: Strickland ak the Quister on air soon because he might

879
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: be a little rusty. It's been so long and now

880
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: we really need to do that. I mean, it's not

881
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: like it's it's not like we have pre conversations with

882
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: him about when these uh, these drop ins will occur.

883
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: It's really up to him. I think the man has

884
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: just been busy. Uh. He really is a force of

885
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: nature and sort of like a specter might haunt different Actually,

886
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: specters usually kind of tend to stick to one location,

887
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: so that wasn't a very good example. But it is

888
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: actually Halloween today, and I tried. Uh. Point is he'll

889
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: come one, He'll come, and we will cower. Yeah, yes

890
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: we will. We are not cowards, but we will indeed

891
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: cower for power for the quister. Uh. And along the way,

892
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: we'll thank Christo Rosciota, Steves, Jeff Cote and thanks to it.

893
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: You know what I'll say it. I don't necessarily agree

894
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: with the militant stance of the Chicago hot Dog, but

895
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: by god, I respect him. You gotta have a code well,

896
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: and hey, thanks to our research associate on this episode, you, sir,

897
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: Mr ben Volo. This is this is a real romp

898
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 1: and a and a gateway drug of sorts into the

899
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: wide world of condiments. Um. I look forward to it.

900
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: I want to do one on Relish, to do one

901
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: on Cole Slaw, you know. I mean, there's just so

902
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: many places we could go with this. We want to

903
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: spread them out, obviously over time, but for spread out

904
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: the continents, you know, I do, Max, and I'm glad

905
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: that you took that opportunity and jumped right on the

906
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: in there with it. Um. But we will do just that,

907
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: and until then, we'll see you next time, folks for

908
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I heart

909
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your

910
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: favorite shows.