Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. And that's why did I just
Speaker 2: forget the name of my podcast? That's us up, that's
Speaker 2: View Podcasts. We're here episode two ten.
Speaker 4: Baby. My name is Liza Traeger and I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 1: And in case you decided to hop on at episode
Speaker 1: two ten, I'll tell you what we do here. We
Speaker 1: recap an episode of SVU. We dive into the true
Speaker 1: crimes that it was based on, and we talked to
Speaker 1: a guest from the show. And today's a good one.
Speaker 1: This episode is awesome today. But before we get into it,
Speaker 1: we just like to chat a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, it's so funny, you said, if someone just
Speaker 2: dives in. Because I was at my coffee shop, and
Speaker 2: if a few you know, you watch my Instant stories,
Speaker 2: you might have heard this. But I'm wearing my sv
Speaker 2: sweatshirt with an it like, I mean, it's such a
Speaker 2: good crap. Like the fact that Melinda and bet Wong
Speaker 2: are in this it's just like my favorite aunt Craigan.
Speaker 4: It's my favorite sweatsher. I mean, JK, my iced one is.
Speaker 2: But she was like, lol iced Tea and Marishka they're
Speaker 2: not really on it. That's like a weird group. I go,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? I go, this is the
Speaker 2: core group. She goes, but they haven't really worked together.
Speaker 2: I go, they've he's been on since season two. I'm like,
Speaker 2: he's been on and he goes, but what about that guy?
Speaker 2: I go, I go, much is dead? I go, I don't.
Speaker 2: Do you not know about any of this? She goes, oh,
Speaker 2: so you like know about this? It's not just like
Speaker 2: a hipster shirt. I go, no, it's from the NBC store,
Speaker 2: not a hipster shirt, babe.
Speaker 1: I only said name three songs, and you were like,
Speaker 1: fuck off.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you everything, you dumb bitch. I see,
Speaker 2: and Marishka haven't been in it. Yeah, if you're listening,
Speaker 2: I remember you no. But then I go, no, I
Speaker 2: actually have a podcast, and I told her about I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm about to go recap an episode right now, and
Speaker 2: so welcome if if you've decided, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just don't know even where you got the information.
Speaker 1: That Marishka and Ica don't ever work together and aren't
Speaker 1: the full main two characters of the show.
Speaker 4: It's so.
Speaker 2: And then she said like she likes this other show,
Speaker 2: and I go, oh, what's this other show? Assuming it
Speaker 2: was like a Criminal Minds or a Bones, you know,
Speaker 2: like what, But it was like following people that are
Speaker 2: getting married for green cards around and I go, what why?
Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with anything the fuck? But
Speaker 2: maybe we have a new listener, so welcome listen.
Speaker 4: You're recruiting them one by one.
Speaker 2: Well, we obviously have a lot to talk about. It's
Speaker 2: post Taylor, but I do have to say. I'm in Toronto.
Speaker 2: I land drop stuff off at the hotel, a quick change,
Speaker 2: let's get into the city. Let's get into town. And
Speaker 2: I see Bella Caresi in a window of a cafe.
Speaker 4: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, but I'm letting the listeners know. I
Speaker 2: saw Bella Caresi and it was it took us o.
Speaker 2: I was like, I know her, I know her, And
Speaker 2: then I went I think she's from Homeland, which she is,
Speaker 2: which that was an exciting brain power of mine. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: And then like forty five minutes into my lunch, I
Speaker 2: went it's Bella Caresi, And so it.
Speaker 4: Was a thrill.
Speaker 1: The IMDb of your brain just clicked in during during soup.
Speaker 2: I know, it is so funny that like a like
Speaker 2: your my Passion shirt can be a hipster shirt that
Speaker 2: you spend one hundred and fifty dollars on at a
Speaker 2: vintage shop.
Speaker 4: I guess you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: Oh and I know everyone wants to know about Taylor,
Speaker 2: but I'm trying to get some other stuff off because
Speaker 2: once I start, I feel like I'm not gonna be
Speaker 2: able to stop.
Speaker 4: You know, Casey's waving every flag he can find.
Speaker 2: So also, I went vintage shopping in my neighborhood in
Speaker 2: New York and I found the exact shoot, not like
Speaker 2: from the set, but the exact Manolo blonics that Carrie
Speaker 2: Bradshaw was meant to take off at the baby shower episode.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the baby. So I put them on.
Speaker 2: It was exciting. They were a size too big. I
Speaker 2: honestly would have bought them for whatever I think. I
Speaker 2: think I would have gotten them, but it was it
Speaker 2: was a thrill. That's cool, that's cool. The other thing
Speaker 2: that's not Taylor that I just want to squeeze in
Speaker 2: is So. I you know, there's this tattoo artist I've
Speaker 2: been following for a while, obsessed, and they posted a
Speaker 2: flash sheet and and I wrote, oh my god, love
Speaker 2: it come to New York. I get an email from
Speaker 2: the tattoo artist being like, hey, I'm gonna be in
Speaker 2: New York in February, Like, these are the dates? Do
Speaker 2: you want to schedule? I go, oh my god, what
Speaker 2: a thrill. I'm thinking this the size, these dates work
Speaker 2: for me. I get back it's like, we need this
Speaker 2: deposit and then we'll schedule a zoom to talk about stuff.
Speaker 2: And I get the deposit infhone. I look at the
Speaker 2: email and something about it. I go, I don't know
Speaker 2: about this, and I DM the tattoo artist with a screenshot, going, hey,
Speaker 2: before I venmo the money, I just want to make
Speaker 2: sure this is you.
Speaker 4: She goes, that's definitely not me.
Speaker 1: Wait, so, how so somebody hacked her and DMed you
Speaker 1: from her account?
Speaker 4: No, it was a Gmail. That's what made me suspicious.
Speaker 2: It was like her tattoo art was the like the photo,
Speaker 2: it was her the name of the tattoo at Gmail.
Speaker 2: So that was But I have a Gmail, and I'm
Speaker 2: a legit person, so it's not like it's not an
Speaker 2: absolute indicator. But before I before I send three hundred
Speaker 2: fifty dollars deposit.
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm so glad you fucking got the spidy sense
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 4: Like I got a lot of Spidey sense.
Speaker 2: And it was like the pape, the Venmo of it all,
Speaker 2: And then it was like why wouldn't she have DMed?
Speaker 2: But also the name for the Venmo was a man's name,
Speaker 2: and I go, this isn't a man. There's no amat
Speaker 2: because I don't I don't know who the artist is,
Speaker 2: like I've never seen them. It's just their work. But
Speaker 2: it's a woman. It's like, so it's like there's no way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so then I just wrote like nice try
Speaker 2: winky face, but uh close.
Speaker 1: Oh I like that you gave your uh you gave
Speaker 1: the criminal a little bit of a wink on the
Speaker 1: way out.
Speaker 4: That's listen. It's a good scam like to.
Speaker 2: But I wonder if they saw it and were like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's try to get Like I wonder if this is
Speaker 2: their usual scam or if it was an opportunity crime,
Speaker 2: like a crime of opportunity, Like I'm just curious, or
Speaker 2: if they scan tattoo pages constantly looking for desperate people
Speaker 2: like me being like come to my town or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or they go to this girl's page and they
Speaker 1: just try to find anybody that they that has commented
Speaker 1: or shared any of her content and they set up
Speaker 1: a little email to look like it. Yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, scammer, be careful, guys. We are living in
Speaker 1: the golden age of the scam honestly, honestly, wait, can
Speaker 1: I say really quickly before we get.
Speaker 4: Into I think you should and then you should have yeah, yeah, question.
Speaker 4: I saw Wicked. Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 1: I thought it was so good, and I will be honest,
Speaker 1: I have never seen a movie musical that is better
Speaker 1: than the stage for me, and I don't know that
Speaker 1: it's better than this, because like I loved seeing Wicked
Speaker 1: on Broadway so much, but this movie is like gorgeous.
Speaker 1: It is so amazingly done. It's really pretty. And Cynthia
Speaker 1: Revo is really great. I'm not like, I'm not the
Speaker 1: biggest Ariana fan. I'm not like a not a fan.
Speaker 1: But she really kills it too. They're both really great.
Speaker 1: The guy who's Fierro is great. I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit. You know, Michelle Yo can't sing,
Speaker 1: but she's amazing. Jeff Goldblum can't really sing, but he's amazing.
Speaker 1: I understand in movies, you gotta know that.
Speaker 2: They both got than Cynthia. No, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: So I saw a post that was like Arianna made
Speaker 2: a fifteen million and Cynthia made a million. And then
Speaker 2: of course it's like, well she is a drawn. It's
Speaker 2: like it doesn't fucking matter. Hopefully she gets a back
Speaker 2: end deal. Her agents are crazy, like, but this happened
Speaker 2: in the Barbie movie where it was like Serai two
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars or something like they fucking do this
Speaker 2: to black women all the time. Oh my, But people
Speaker 2: kept being like all right on arian And then it's
Speaker 2: like to find out these two side characters made more
Speaker 2: than Cynthia. Hopefully it's not real, Hopefully it's online. But
Speaker 2: my friend who I trusted, post this, So yeah, it's annoying.
Speaker 1: No, because she's literally the heart of the whole movie.
Speaker 1: Is like it she like even though it is like
Speaker 1: about the two, it's like Cynthia Rivo's character like Alpha,
Speaker 1: but is like the.
Speaker 2: Main yes, of course, you know, like she is spinning
Speaker 2: in the air live singh sons. I mean they are
Speaker 2: very pretentious. She is very pretentious. Like these interviews are insane.
Speaker 2: This is like I've never she is the most theater
Speaker 2: person I think I've ever witnessed doing press in my fuck.
Speaker 1: You sound like someone who's not holding space for the
Speaker 1: lyrics of defying gravity right now?
Speaker 2: You know what, but holding a finger I love holding
Speaker 2: a finger holding.
Speaker 1: I was telling I was describing it to Jared, and
Speaker 1: I go, not only is it so funny because this
Speaker 1: woman brings up this completely, this completely word salady woo
Speaker 1: woo thing about holding space for song lyrics. Then they go, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was happening. Their reaction is so serious.
Speaker 1: Then the woman who was interviewing them goes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw a couple of posts. A couple of posts, what
Speaker 1: are we talking about? And then there's the finger touch.
Speaker 1: It's like every single piece of it is like its
Speaker 1: own meme. It's so funny. I love that so much.
Speaker 1: I watched it a bunch of times. But the movie
Speaker 1: is excellent. I'm excited. It's two hours and forty minutes.
Speaker 1: I didn't even notice I didn't even notice. And I'm
Speaker 1: usually like, at hour ninety, I'm like, how many more
Speaker 1: minutes do we have left? And I didn't notice. I
Speaker 1: thought it away excellent. Bowen is so funny in it.
Speaker 1: He seems like he's improvising, and he's got a bunch
Speaker 1: of little moments in there.
Speaker 4: It's great. It's great. SpongeBob, you know he's in there.
Speaker 4: It's it's good. But I'm seeing it the friday after.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to implement a green and pink dress code
Speaker 2: for the family, but only the grandmas have responded.
Speaker 4: I am being shunned.
Speaker 2: I am being shunned, but I think we should wear
Speaker 2: green and pink.
Speaker 4: Why not, let's take a photo, like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of the final it's the rush
Speaker 2: to the inauguration, you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really all. Get it all done well, speaking
Speaker 2: of things that well buy.
Speaker 1: This is what I was gonna say, though, really quickly,
Speaker 1: because you just said inauguration.
Speaker 5: Though.
Speaker 1: It is wild when you're watching Wicked, how much it
Speaker 1: just maps up right to politics, Like it really is right,
Speaker 1: it's perfect, Like it's in the least in the first
Speaker 1: part Glinda is like white women who voted for Trump,
Speaker 1: and like the Wizard is like it's crazy. It's like
Speaker 1: a snake oil salesman, like it's crazy. But you know,
Speaker 1: I just thought that was really like spooky. All right,
Speaker 1: Casey just gave us the ten minute flag, which means
Speaker 1: we need to get into Taylor.
Speaker 4: I have not talked to you. I've seen the social media.
Speaker 4: I mean I didn't.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming were there any major issues, hicc hops, anything
Speaker 1: or was it like smooth sailing?
Speaker 4: I love that that's your No, nothing went wrong. It
Speaker 4: was great.
Speaker 2: All my preparation thought I did, everything worked out perfect.
Speaker 2: It was like, yeah, it was the best, and you
Speaker 2: mentioning things flying by, like it went by so fast.
Speaker 2: Every time she would go into a new song or era,
Speaker 2: I'm like stop, stop, I'm ready, like I need a moment,
Speaker 2: Like it just went by so fast and was so
Speaker 2: perfect and great. I also want to say it is
Speaker 2: so wholesome, like all the outfits are so fun, like
Speaker 2: I've never been I don't think it's to a concert
Speaker 2: where people are that. Like everyone is intentional about their dressing,
Speaker 2: you know, like even the most casual it's a shirt,
Speaker 2: it's a nod Or. It's people that came super early
Speaker 2: to get the tour exclusive merch, you know, the blue
Speaker 2: brunetts and the half.
Speaker 4: Tips, like it really is so cute.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I would say from the flight immediately, like
Speaker 2: there was like a lot of people, like you could
Speaker 2: tell that we're going, and like our hotel had balloons
Speaker 2: that said eras and disco balls and step in repeats
Speaker 2: and bead making stations and everything was just like full tailor.
Speaker 2: They had tailor drag brunch like it was. They were
Speaker 2: support an economy. It's a full economy. It fully is
Speaker 2: because outside of the concert, this was the I also
Speaker 2: thank you everyone that came to my show. That was
Speaker 2: really fun and exciting. And are you guys do not
Speaker 2: have to bring presents. Do not feel obliged. You do
Speaker 2: not have to give me drugs. Appreciate it of course.
Speaker 2: The thoughtfulness. I mean you saw the Moodang, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: someone three D printed and hand painted a fucking Moodang
Speaker 2: with Taylor bracelets on its little little pause. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can't even, I can't even, but yeah, just like
Speaker 2: such cute stuff and fun bracelets. But anyways, overall, yeah,
Speaker 2: the shopping, I got a trench, like the vintage. The
Speaker 2: food I had the best wrenches. Like we were out
Speaker 2: and about like every little store, every neighborhood, every park,
Speaker 2: like it was just crisp, gorgeous, Like I love Toronto,
Speaker 2: such good food.
Speaker 4: And I know I want to go. I gotta go
Speaker 4: spend more time there.
Speaker 2: All the restaurants too that have like the best food,
Speaker 2: like chill Ambiance, cool little kitchy lamps and art and
Speaker 2: Seinfeld playing on the TVs. You know I bought I
Speaker 2: bought Amrchat from one of the bars. So Taylor the
Speaker 2: tram to get like that. They have street cars. The
Speaker 2: stop was right outside our hotel, straight shop, like thirteen
Speaker 2: minute walk, then to the arena and then like to
Speaker 2: the stadium.
Speaker 4: Excuse me.
Speaker 2: And what's cool is like I asked a worker outside,
Speaker 2: I go, hey, we're like gate five and six, and
Speaker 2: she goes, but you want to see the big Arab beads, right,
Speaker 2: and we're like yeah, and so she led us like
Speaker 2: they just everyone was in. We got to see the
Speaker 2: big puffy beads from I think New Orleans. So that
Speaker 2: was really exciting. And then so no line to go
Speaker 2: in at all. The seats are incredible. The teens next
Speaker 2: to us took such good photos of us. She goes,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna use flash and then I was like, I've
Speaker 2: never looked better in my life. And then like, I mean,
Speaker 2: these teens are incredible, if you know, these two glitter
Speaker 2: boat teens fantastic women. And then we are immediately with
Speaker 2: like a set of parents from Hawaii. They came from
Speaker 2: Hawaii with their daughter and daughter's husband to do this
Speaker 2: like show and they ended up being a big part
Speaker 2: of our experience there because they got blacked out.
Speaker 1: But oh my god, I love it. Why I was
Speaker 1: hoping you would make seat mate friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was like she just got blacked out
Speaker 2: and just was like come to Hawaii, and it's like
Speaker 2: you need to shut the fuck up, Like I don't.
Speaker 4: Play around, Like I don't really play around.
Speaker 2: But there was like a dad and daughter next to it,
Speaker 2: like everyone was just cute little kids in cosplay.
Speaker 4: There was like a glitter guy with his girlfriend.
Speaker 2: There was a couple that looked really like upset in
Speaker 2: the front of us, But I feel like they got
Speaker 2: into a fight. I have no idea fight at eras
Speaker 2: come on before or they could just be wet blankets
Speaker 2: as people but I was just yea, sucks to be
Speaker 2: them anyways. So that we went to walk around, I
Speaker 2: mean I was not drinking at all because of the
Speaker 2: peace situation. I did get like like I don't really
Speaker 2: fuck Oh yes, what happened with that?
Speaker 4: Nothing? I didn't people never went.
Speaker 2: Wow. I went twice before the show and once after
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 4: Not that so not even a thing I knew.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to watch Grace okay, but the merch
Speaker 2: lines were bananas, and I resigned not to.
Speaker 4: Go to it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I have enough bullshit, like I really don't
Speaker 2: need this to complete the experience. But then it was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to get something from my niece. And then oh,
Speaker 2: but what about the TTPD shirt?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: So then it's like trying to think about the lines along.
Speaker 2: And then as we were exiting the bathroom, they were
Speaker 2: reconfiguring the merch lines in a way where we snuck
Speaker 2: right into the middle of the line. What some we
Speaker 2: only waited a half an hour? Wow, it was like incredible.
Speaker 2: I got the shirt I wanted, Like I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: I got an all beef kosher dog with a little
Speaker 2: bottle of water, sat down and it was like I
Speaker 2: finished the hot dog as the clock came on, and
Speaker 2: like Lady Gaga played.
Speaker 4: I mean it was like incredible. Who opened well gra
Speaker 4: c Abrams jj Abram's daughter, and I.
Speaker 1: Don't know that's who she is, Okay, okay, I've been
Speaker 1: hearing about her.
Speaker 4: I Love close to You.
Speaker 2: It's a great song and I heard it while I
Speaker 2: was in line to get a hot dog. I'm not
Speaker 2: watching jj abrams daughter live out her fantasies, like I
Speaker 2: don't care.
Speaker 4: I don't care.
Speaker 2: You could be a fan of hers, I will refuse
Speaker 2: so like but she plays. Gaga's applause is the last
Speaker 2: song before the like the two thirty Cops. So that's
Speaker 2: so once that plays, you know it's coming. That's like
Speaker 2: her pump up song. And it was just like joyous
Speaker 2: from the start. It was so cool. She is a
Speaker 2: Disney princess. She looks amazing. I loved singing everything. It
Speaker 2: was just awesome. It couldn't have been better. I don't
Speaker 2: know what to say. I gotta get by it. Nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine I would say was the most electric era
Speaker 2: in terms of like every I'm getting get together, but JK,
Speaker 2: August and Willow rocked my socks off, and then I
Speaker 2: facetimes Tommy Max shout out for all two well, the
Speaker 2: ten minute version. It is his favorite song. So that
Speaker 2: was a thrill, but I didn't want it to end.
Speaker 2: It was so cool.
Speaker 4: I love the song.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the secret songs, the guitar one, it was
Speaker 2: mister Perfectly Fine from Red and I like don't Care
Speaker 2: and then better than Revenge from Speaking Out, which I
Speaker 2: did like.
Speaker 4: So that was exciting.
Speaker 2: But two of my dream songs were played on different
Speaker 2: nights of Toronto, so two songs that were in my
Speaker 2: top four were played, just not when I was there.
Speaker 6: And Marishka was at a night of Toronto, I know, well,
Speaker 6: I think Sutton from Beverly Hills was there the night
Speaker 6: I was there because her post is like the outfit
Speaker 6: I also, I mean, I feel psychotic for having these opinions,
Speaker 6: but it's like, yeah, I was happy to see the
Speaker 6: outfits I saw, like I loved our Midnights, the Midnight's
Speaker 6: body suit.
Speaker 2: I loved my lover body suit like I liked the
Speaker 2: outfits that she chose for us. And then the piano
Speaker 2: secret song was State of Grace from Red and Labyrinth,
Speaker 2: which I like from midnights, which was fine. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't care, you know, I like better than Revenge, and
Speaker 2: it was fun and special. But then she like dives
Speaker 2: into the fake water and like that's cool and like
Speaker 2: fake swims.
Speaker 4: Like I liked.
Speaker 2: See, I'm glad I didn't watch the concert movie because
Speaker 2: all the visuals were really surprising, and like, oh, all
Speaker 2: the backup and also these backup dancers lucky, I mean
Speaker 2: barely having to dance, barely a move, like they're obviously talented,
Speaker 2: not really, but like if they were doing Beyonce, I
Speaker 2: bet they would be tired every night. I kind of
Speaker 2: skipping around doing musical theater. It's like, yeah, we're a
Speaker 2: nice gath, We're a.
Speaker 4: Nice bath after Beyonce, I feel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not saying it's not physically taxing and they're
Speaker 2: not doing beautiful work, but it is, like, I bet
Speaker 2: it's a great gig to have. I loved our Willow
Speaker 2: dress like I did like all the outfits she chose
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 4: I love when she runs the stage for August I
Speaker 4: mean that.
Speaker 2: And there was one seat empty in our rows, so
Speaker 2: I kind of got I didn't get the aisle, which
Speaker 2: I usually love, but I had a little extra.
Speaker 4: Room to dance because one person didn't show up. Can
Speaker 4: you imagine these tickets are so much?
Speaker 2: I just assume it's like a terrible accident. Like that's
Speaker 2: where my brain goes. I'm like, oh, I mean why
Speaker 2: else or you would try to make you know, cash
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 4: So I love it. Don't blame respond. It's true.
Speaker 2: All our outfits were good, and then we had like,
Speaker 2: you know, my show the next day, good food, and
Speaker 2: then that Saturday before a flight, it was like a
Speaker 2: full day. I got twelve thousand, I got like between
Speaker 2: eight and twelve thousand steps every single day in our
Speaker 2: name Whoa.
Speaker 4: It was like awesome.
Speaker 2: And then you got to see all the people still
Speaker 2: coming into the hotel. There was still tit playing tailor
Speaker 2: and non stop all the stores. Every waitress had all
Speaker 2: the bracelets like I gave them to flight attendants, Like
Speaker 2: everyone was covered in bracelets all over the city and airport.
Speaker 4: It was pretty fun and that's awesome.
Speaker 2: And all the TSA people, like everyone knew, They're like,
Speaker 2: you're here for the show.
Speaker 4: I mean everyone was.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like it's truly like a phenomenon, like
Speaker 1: the whole thing. It's really cool. I'm glad you got
Speaker 1: to go. I'm so glad that it like went off
Speaker 1: without a hitch.
Speaker 2: You know, no, in terms of like no line there,
Speaker 2: like every anxiety I ever have about concerts did not
Speaker 2: happen here, and it felt just so chill. And I
Speaker 2: do also wonder if Canada had something to do with
Speaker 2: the chillness. Like, yeah, I do feel like people yell
Speaker 2: more in America in terms of people that workout venues.
Speaker 4: There's definitely more of a niceness for sure.
Speaker 2: But yeah, little kids in glitter everywhere, just giving them
Speaker 2: bracelets like so fucking cute. Yeah, Toronto just like was
Speaker 2: awesome and my show is awesome and I got to
Speaker 2: throw out bracelets.
Speaker 4: Oh you know what else?
Speaker 3: I love?
Speaker 2: There are certain songs where she just does like the
Speaker 2: bridge and chorus, like she doesn't do the beginning songs
Speaker 2: or all the other verses, like she just kind of
Speaker 2: does like the part everyone loves to sing and then
Speaker 2: move on, got it? Yeah, yes, because there's so many
Speaker 2: songs so like bad Blood and Elicit Affairs, she just
Speaker 2: kind of does the parts that we want to sing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like when I went to see Mariah Carrie,
Speaker 1: she just did like thirty minutes of like a montage
Speaker 1: of all her best songs of like that weren't Christmasy,
Speaker 1: and that was like, you know, it was like amazing
Speaker 1: giving people what they want, you know, absolutely.
Speaker 2: And the energy was just select her. And on the
Speaker 2: way out, I ordered Domino's. That was way to at
Speaker 2: the hotel. When we got back, ready there the tram
Speaker 2: was easy, Like it really was just a phenomenal experience.
Speaker 1: Wow, it sounds like Toronto maybe is your new Orlando,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're gonna move there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Gadbury, the drug stores, you know, all
Speaker 2: the little experiences of being in a different country are
Speaker 2: fun too.
Speaker 4: That's awesome. Well, I'm glad you had such a good time.
Speaker 1: I was obviously following stories and it looked awesome. But
Speaker 1: before we get started, just want to shout out this
Speaker 1: episode's coming out on December tenth and December twelfth is
Speaker 1: the last day that you can order merch from our
Speaker 1: store while and get it there in time for Christmas.
Speaker 1: So if you're if you're a person that celebrates Christmas,
Speaker 1: or you'd like to have it by December twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: place an order today or tomorrow and get that in.
Speaker 1: We have our do you have children detective stuff? We
Speaker 1: have some cute stickers left over. We have our Christmas ornament.
Speaker 1: It's not too late to get that up on your tree.
Speaker 1: And oh I got to ask them to send us one.
Speaker 1: I want one, but uh, because we're getting our tree
Speaker 1: this week, baby. And yeah, so go to That's messed
Speaker 1: Up live dot com or the link in our Instagram
Speaker 1: bio that has our shop link. You can also check
Speaker 1: out Lisa's going to be in Red Bank on the
Speaker 1: nineteenth and I don't know everything else Brooklyn on the twenty.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what a fun little Christmas show.
Speaker 2: Then just in life, like you know, I will be
Speaker 2: touring next year. I think there's yeah, tons of emails
Speaker 2: I have to respond to and confirm a bunch of dates.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so get on there and then yeah, get
Speaker 1: and and That's messed Up Live dot Com also has
Speaker 1: a link to like Lisa's website that tells you all
Speaker 1: the dates and stuff, which it takes to your link
Speaker 1: tree which has all your dates. And uh, I'm still
Speaker 1: doing my other show called Who's the Bitch If you
Speaker 1: guys want to give that a listen as well.
Speaker 4: It's on the Last Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: Give me a listen over there, and yeah, I hope
Speaker 1: everyone's holiday seasons are going great so far. Let's dive
Speaker 1: into today's episode.
Speaker 2: Al Right, we are doing smoked Season twelve, episode twenty four.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't really eat smoked things, do you. Uh uh?
Speaker 1: Stuff that smoked is really not for me. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like even smoked mozzarella. I'm like, nah, I don't
Speaker 1: like it.
Speaker 2: All right, well I'm diving in Season twelve, episode twenty
Speaker 2: four a finale.
Speaker 4: I mean, we're in for a ride a huge, huge
Speaker 4: jep A cannon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this would be you know, yeah, nine one
Speaker 2: one is in cannon.
Speaker 4: This one just some like high end episodes.
Speaker 1: If you were gonna make like a time capsule of
Speaker 1: like SVU episodes like this one would be going in
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 4: One hondo.
Speaker 2: So it starts with a mom and daughter walking after
Speaker 2: getting a prom dress, and the mom is so grateful
Speaker 2: to be getting her daughter a good dress and she's
Speaker 2: a good girl who's not planning on drinking, and the
Speaker 2: mom is very proud of her.
Speaker 1: Did you drink a prom? I didn't go to prom?
Speaker 1: Oh you didn't, Okay, I drink?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I would have bet my money on that one
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 2: So the daughter says, well, I'm proud of you too,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna do great next week. And right at
Speaker 2: that moment, a man with a hoodie breaks them apart.
Speaker 2: The mom does a tug of war with the purse
Speaker 2: and then finally lets him have it, but he doesn't
Speaker 2: walk away. He walks right up onto her and shoots
Speaker 2: her straight in the head and leaves the daughter and
Speaker 2: runs off. The girl is obviously upset her mom has
Speaker 2: been shot and is bleeding out of a violent killing.
Speaker 2: Like it's very so gruesome. Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: I don't even really get how they do it because
Speaker 1: it goes right up to her head and like then
Speaker 1: she goes back and you immediately see the bullet hole,
Speaker 1: like it's a it's it was a lot, very nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's upsetting. Benson and Stabler are on the scene.
Speaker 2: They're ducking under caution tape, ready to work. But there's
Speaker 2: no sex crimes, so what are they doing here? The
Speaker 2: victim's daughter specifically asked for Benson and Stabler to be
Speaker 2: called Benson Caesar sitting on the back of the ambulance
Speaker 2: and goes, oh my god, that's Jenna Fox. She runs
Speaker 2: into Olivia's arms. She's crying and you know he killed
Speaker 2: my mom. Stabler says Annette Fox. Her rape trial was
Speaker 2: starting next week to the EMT and the girl cries
Speaker 2: into Benson's arms, right, you know, up until the credits.
Speaker 2: So we're back and we're at the office. Benson's comforting
Speaker 2: Jenna in wood room blinds. Stabler is in the outside
Speaker 2: glass like damn. You know, we had an open and
Speaker 2: shut case until now. And this happened two years ago.
Speaker 2: It went to she went to a grand opening of
Speaker 2: a salon in Soho. The Ada says, oh Luke ronson
Speaker 2: a stylist who thinks he's a rock star. I'm familiar
Speaker 2: now this eightya. Who are you a girl?
Speaker 4: Who are you? Sherry West?
Speaker 2: She's played by Francy Swift in five episodes, and she's
Speaker 2: not even in the first or second of the Nondescript
Speaker 2: nor Memorable Adas. She's in third place of who is
Speaker 2: this woman? But she's here, She's here. You do not
Speaker 2: know her, Okay, she is just an inanimate kind of woman.
Speaker 2: This is so rude. She's a human. But it's just
Speaker 2: funny that they had a parade of women that didn't
Speaker 2: really work out. And is that when they brought in Barbara, Oh.
Speaker 4: My god, I like don't know.
Speaker 2: I just feel like Habit and Novak were just so
Speaker 2: good and they weren't really able to crack that energy again.
Speaker 4: With these same women.
Speaker 1: They were definitely trying, and like Jillian Hardwick, like all
Speaker 1: these other ones, like it just wasn't was not popping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Finn says, yeah, and he's a rapist. And then
Speaker 2: so what Ronson did is invites her to the back,
Speaker 2: and next thing she knows, she's waking up in a
Speaker 2: cab with pain. And if you guys are wondering, like, wow,
Speaker 2: is Liza struggling to breathe? I am. My nose is stuffed.
Speaker 2: I am struggling. So if I sound underwater, it's how
Speaker 2: I feel. Ronson invites her to the back, and next
Speaker 2: thing she knows, she's waking up in the cab. There's
Speaker 2: pain and the pant and also pain and panties together.
Speaker 2: It's very hard to say, but the panties are ripped.
Speaker 2: There was GHB in her bloodstream, and they found JHB
Speaker 2: at the salon. Him and his trainer claimed they used
Speaker 2: GHB in the gym okay, but Finn knows when the
Speaker 2: mom hit the stand, the guy would go behind bars.
Speaker 4: But why did the case take two years?
Speaker 2: So basically a lot of diversionary emotions and a lot
Speaker 2: of tactics to delay. So it's all very suspicious that
Speaker 2: there was like this perse snatch a week before the trial,
Speaker 2: but no one buys it. There's two security cameras, but
Speaker 2: we do need Jenna, so we're back in woodroom blinds.
Speaker 2: She sadly did not see his face, and she's doing
Speaker 2: the classic like I should have done this, I should
Speaker 2: have done that, And Benson's like, girl, you would have
Speaker 2: been dead too, so we need you here and you
Speaker 2: did everything right. Stabler goes, hey, like before tonight, did anything? Okay,
Speaker 2: that's not the tone. Okay, So Stabler's like, hey, what
Speaker 2: up girl?
Speaker 5: Hey?
Speaker 4: Boom boom.
Speaker 2: Stabler's like, you know, has anything weird happened before tonight?
Speaker 2: And I guess last week she did see someone staring
Speaker 2: at her in the dark on a sidewalk in the house. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's fucking crazy. They also were getting a lot of
Speaker 2: prank phone call and then she calls him a gutlass
Speaker 2: prick and Finn finds proof of eighty seven calls to
Speaker 2: the mom's cell thirty six to the landline, all from
Speaker 2: the same number. Of course, a disposable phone, but this
Speaker 2: phone was bought one block from Luke's salon. So let's
Speaker 2: see what this dirt bag has to say for himself.
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler go to harass them at work, and
Speaker 2: he is, you know, a big classy hairstylist, straight man vibes.
Speaker 2: And I know this man as a fellow or a fellow.
Speaker 2: No one here is doing this as a former salon receptionist.
Speaker 2: There's always like one super hot straight man stylist and
Speaker 2: he's usually got some funky tattoos and a little haircut,
Speaker 2: and it's a vibe.
Speaker 4: It's a vibe. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of Jared's old coworkers who's like beautiful and like
Speaker 1: friends with like a lot of famous people. She married
Speaker 1: a big male hairstylist like this exact vibe. But I
Speaker 1: don't think this guy necessarily has. He's not hot, but like, yes,
Speaker 1: you're talking about Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if Isaac Fromilio Salon, if anyone remembers him and
Speaker 2: you listen to this podcast, I want to know where
Speaker 2: you're at.
Speaker 4: But I'm curious. I am curious.
Speaker 2: Okay, So they obviously screamed really loud for everyone to
Speaker 2: hear about the rape trial At the salon, he calls
Speaker 2: the rape a misunderstanding. They bring up the murder. He
Speaker 2: acts like he has no idea she's dead. He was
Speaker 2: having dinner with his publicist, Marriette.
Speaker 4: It's not a name.
Speaker 2: His lawyer yells, don't say another word, Luke as he
Speaker 2: waddles his way in. It's Hashi Horowitz, all right, and
Speaker 2: he's wearing a Columbo style trench and Stabler says, oh,
Speaker 2: here comes the douchebag.
Speaker 4: So they know they have to leave.
Speaker 2: But before they go, Benson says, be careful, ladies, he
Speaker 2: might shoot you in the head during your die job.
Speaker 2: So we gotta go talk to the publicist. They did
Speaker 2: have dinner. She's at a sexy bast skeball shoot for
Speaker 2: a client. This woman's in a mini dress dunking. So
Speaker 2: that's really cool.
Speaker 4: Isn't it. So this is one of those scenes where
Speaker 4: I'm like.
Speaker 1: They set up this whole thing just as background, like
Speaker 1: they cast somebody. They set up a full photo shoot
Speaker 1: as background, just so the stylist could have something to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, they could have met the stylist outside of
Speaker 1: her office building.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But instead they're like a woman a model is dunking
Speaker 1: like they like they really spare no no detail or expense.
Speaker 2: NBC Baby, big Bucks, big Bucks. Dinner was done by
Speaker 2: seven point thirty, she says, and then he went to
Speaker 2: Saint Anne's. He volunteers at the homeless shelter every Tuesday
Speaker 2: for the last two years. And Benson's like, oh so
Speaker 2: right after he got caught raping, good idea pre girl.
Speaker 2: She goes, no, he's a giver. You're wrong about him.
Speaker 2: So they go to the homeless shelter, and of course
Speaker 2: sister Peg is there. She's obsessed with this guy. He
Speaker 2: cuts hair for the homeless and checks for lice and
Speaker 2: you know, it makes people feel good about them elves
Speaker 2: and ready for job interviews and that he's a good man.
Speaker 2: Staber's like, okay, but he is also a rapist, and
Speaker 2: Sister Peg is like, you know, all people are accused
Speaker 2: and all convicted, YadA YadA, and it's like, fuck off, bitch.
Speaker 4: You know how the system.
Speaker 2: Works, and it's like stacked against victims of sex crimes,
Speaker 2: So like, don't play these accusation games. But you know
Speaker 2: what do I know, but she has to take all
Speaker 2: the help she can get, she says. So Stabler wants
Speaker 2: to know who he gave cuts to the Tuesday of
Speaker 2: the shooting, but she says that he had to leave
Speaker 2: a leave abruptly, that he was doing the cuts and
Speaker 2: then left. So Stabler has a sly look. Well, who
Speaker 2: was his last haircut? And it was someone named Eddie Skinner.
Speaker 2: So this guy has long, shaggy hair and is in
Speaker 2: the shelter attitude. He goes, you know, I didn't get
Speaker 2: a cut, and he says, I didn't want to cut
Speaker 2: that day because Luke felt preoccupied and you know, he
Speaker 2: wasn't interested, but he and he left in a rush
Speaker 2: and ran for the door. But when he grabbed his bag,
Speaker 2: he felt like he saw a gun in the bad
Speaker 2: and so and an amazing character choice. The guy SIPs
Speaker 2: coffee and then spits it all back out into the cup.
Speaker 4: I just like this guy. I have no comment on it.
Speaker 1: I've noticed that too, and I was like, this is funny.
Speaker 4: This guy is good.
Speaker 1: This guy, this actor's name is Michael Raymond James and
Speaker 1: he has like only fifty five credits, but like he's
Speaker 1: been in like not only only that's a ton.
Speaker 4: That's a ton. But he was.
Speaker 1: He was a big character on OC. There was a
Speaker 1: season two of OC. He was like a big boss
Speaker 1: of like of I think, like an Armenium crime family
Speaker 1: or some kind of crime maybe a Greek crime family.
Speaker 1: But he is like the head of it for eight episodes.
Speaker 1: He's very scary, but he's also in I don't know,
Speaker 1: like tons of other stuff. Once Upon a Time was
Speaker 1: a big show. He was on for like thirty five episodes.
Speaker 2: Whow So we go to Luke Ronson's house, okay, hairstylas
Speaker 2: and the maid doesn't want to let them search, uh,
Speaker 2: but it's and she really.
Speaker 4: Has his back for some reason.
Speaker 2: But being oh, they find everything they need, a nine
Speaker 2: millimeter right next to a box of amo the black
Speaker 2: hooded sweatshirt. So back to the salon they go, you know,
Speaker 2: drop the scissors. He's acting cocky, but they put handcuffs
Speaker 2: on him and scurry him off. The woman in his
Speaker 2: chair is like, wait, what about can I reschedule?
Speaker 1: She's like mid die, She's like, who's gonna who's gonna
Speaker 1: do my highlights?
Speaker 4: Over his shoulder.
Speaker 2: Stabler turns his head and says, in about twenty five years.
Speaker 2: So we're in cement room bars. He denies the murder
Speaker 2: and Benson is like, yeah, you also denied the rape.
Speaker 4: We hate you. Your word means nothing to us.
Speaker 2: We found the gun in your closet at your home,
Speaker 2: but list six prove it's the one that's shot a net.
Speaker 2: You're done, and hello, you can't have a gun with
Speaker 2: no permit in New York. He says he has a
Speaker 2: permit in Arizona. The detectives are like, damn, Arizona gave
Speaker 2: a crazy nut like you a gun.
Speaker 4: Not surprising. He says, I'm not crazy? Oh really?
Speaker 2: Then why has the trial been delayed eighteen times? For
Speaker 2: your stress related disorders? So which one is it? Is
Speaker 2: it delayed because you're stressed and crazy or are you
Speaker 2: chill and lying? He gets stressed and Hashi, you know,
Speaker 2: he comes through. He's good as a job. He's shutting
Speaker 2: it down, going shut up, Luke. It's getting heated. They're
Speaker 2: circling him like two sharks, close to his face, and
Speaker 2: Hash is pleading don't say a word. Please, don't say
Speaker 2: a word. They're like, tell us what you did? You
Speaker 2: lose her? He's stuttering to say something. Hash is screaming
Speaker 2: don't say anything. Then the fucking Eightya decides to interrupt
Speaker 2: at this moment, and Benson's face is like, bitch, I
Speaker 2: will fucking kill you. She is livid. She says Luke
Speaker 2: is not their killer, so that sucks. CSI checked the gun.
Speaker 2: It's not the right gun, bummer, so it's not the
Speaker 2: right hoodie either. There's a different logo, so he gets
Speaker 2: to walk again. They have to cut him loose. Sabler
Speaker 2: knows something's wrong here because he looked worried when they
Speaker 2: had him up against the wall and he's walking out,
Speaker 2: back to being cocky real quick, real quick. They get
Speaker 2: in a cab and leave, and in that moment, the daughter, Jenna,
Speaker 2: sees all this happen. She runs to Benson, like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck you're letting him go? He rate my mom
Speaker 2: and they're like, you know, he's not the killer, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, we're trying, We're trying. She and Jenna goes, oh,
Speaker 2: everything is falling apart. The trial's off. My mom is dead.
Speaker 2: We trusted you. She's like, I'm I was supposed to
Speaker 2: go to prom. Now I'm burying my mother and Benson goes,
Speaker 2: we just any time, and she spins back like, bitch,
Speaker 2: it's been two years. I put my faith in you,
Speaker 2: and now I have nothing.
Speaker 4: No one.
Speaker 2: She speed walks off at it here and Luke gets
Speaker 2: out of the car at his salon. Stabler and Finn
Speaker 2: are following him, and it's a full fake out. He
Speaker 2: doesn't go back to work. He starts taking a walk.
Speaker 2: He walks to the shelter and Finn knows he hasn't
Speaker 2: seen him before, so Finn goes, I'll go in there
Speaker 2: to spy. He says, hy does Sister Peg, who calls
Speaker 2: him Odafin. So just something I caught, Like, I wonder
Speaker 2: why she uses the full name.
Speaker 4: No one really does.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, I think I remember always Sister Peg always
Speaker 1: does that. I wonder if that was like a thing
Speaker 1: where she may that the actress made the choice, or
Speaker 1: like if it's scripted.
Speaker 4: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she points maybe that's the tut Maybe that'll
Speaker 2: be my svu tattoo otafin Tutuolan's in fine script under
Speaker 2: my titty. She points him to Luke, who's talking to
Speaker 2: a shaggy hair dude from earlier that like told on
Speaker 2: him and they're fighting, arguing intensely. He sends Stabler a
Speaker 2: pick and he's like, that's Eddie. That's the guy who
Speaker 2: saw the gun in Luke's bag. So Stabler runs to
Speaker 2: go inside. Finn walks up to him slowly, but shaggy
Speaker 2: Hair throws the table at him immediately, like they know
Speaker 2: this is a career criminal, and he starts running out
Speaker 2: the door, but Stabler is there to punch him in
Speaker 2: the face and arrests his ass. Finn takes Luke with
Speaker 2: him and they throw Eddie into cement room bars with Stabler.
Speaker 2: Luke is in the other cement room bars with Finn
Speaker 2: and he's like, listen, Eddie. Would I knew Eddie was
Speaker 2: trouble from the moment I cut his hair. Finn is like, bro,
Speaker 2: are you sure you don't want your lawyer? He breathes deep,
Speaker 2: I need to tell the truth. He says that he
Speaker 2: hired Eddie to harass it that so she wouldn't show up.
Speaker 2: He didn't say to kill her. It cuts back to
Speaker 2: Eddie saying he didn't kill her. Sailor says, but we
Speaker 2: found the phone on you that you used to harass
Speaker 2: her quick. I found it in the park quick. Like
Speaker 2: this guy really knows how to lie. Luke says he
Speaker 2: bought the phone and gave it to Eddie to call her,
Speaker 2: harass her, stare at her across the street. That he
Speaker 2: paid Eddie five hundred dollars and it would be five
Speaker 2: thousand dollars after the trial falls apart. Luke says he
Speaker 2: ran out early because Eddie was trying to squeeze him
Speaker 2: out for more money and being annoying, and he wanted
Speaker 2: to kill her because he was pissed that she yelled
Speaker 2: at him and he was just like begging to smoke
Speaker 2: the bitch take a drink, and he just really wanted
Speaker 2: an intimidation situation, really innocent seeming. So Eddie asks for
Speaker 2: his phone call. Stabler comes out of the room and
Speaker 2: says Eddie's Eddie is the shooter. Benson's like, I kind
Speaker 2: of believe the rapist right now, Sherry, what do you?
Speaker 4: What do you say?
Speaker 2: She thinks we need the gun he used to kill her,
Speaker 2: So let's get back to searching. But we can arrest
Speaker 2: Eddie on assaulting a police officer and then we could
Speaker 2: charge Luke with harassing and intimidating a witness. But she
Speaker 2: doesn't want to lock them up together, so they have
Speaker 2: time to plot and schemeshit. So Luke's gonna go in
Speaker 2: the cage and then Eddie's gonna go and lock up downstairs.
Speaker 2: Eddie starts screaming on the phone for someone to get
Speaker 2: him out of there. Stabler cuffs him again and carries
Speaker 2: him to lock his ass up. They're having a sassy banter.
Speaker 2: Eddie says that he wanted to be a cop and
Speaker 2: Sabler goes, well, you have to.
Speaker 4: Care about people. Lol.
Speaker 2: Eddie says, you don't know me, and Sadler's like yeah,
Speaker 2: and nothing makes me happier. Benson's on the phone with
Speaker 2: Jenna filling her in and how they file the guy
Speaker 2: there and they have to find the gun. Central Booking
Speaker 2: is here to bring Luke down, So they open the
Speaker 2: cage and he walks out to get cuffed and be taken.
Speaker 2: Stabler brings him to the van to take him to
Speaker 2: Central Booking, but Eddie Skinner's not there. Sabler is like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? The drivers say, we cleared the whole room.
Speaker 2: He wasn't there. There's nowhere he could be found. Every
Speaker 2: prisoner was accounted for. Sailor's like, who the fuck let
Speaker 2: him out? And then the UNI guy's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I let him out about an apple hour after you
Speaker 2: put him in. Some fed took him. And so they're like,
Speaker 2: why would the FBI need this little rat? So, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't. It wasn't the FBI. It was at f
Speaker 2: I don't know, a haul tobacco firearms. Oh okay. Sailor's
Speaker 2: like just like what the fuck. But the guy goes, listen,
Speaker 2: I got my orders from one PP, the chief of
Speaker 2: Organized Crime Control. So Benson and Sablor and Sherry head
Speaker 2: down to bat FE, New York. Uh not to be
Speaker 2: confused with the BAFTAs the acting award in England. So
Speaker 2: they go to some office. They talk to a special
Speaker 2: agent Greer. O, holy shit, it's Pedro Pascal. He is
Speaker 2: not the guest. So you guys don't have to think
Speaker 2: about that. You know, we have an incredible guest. I'm
Speaker 2: very thrilled and young. It is a thrill. It's really
Speaker 2: a thrill to see uh, to see him in this
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's exciting to He's so much sexier now,
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, more rugged.
Speaker 4: He's like a good old boy here, like a little
Speaker 4: haircut tight. I like him.
Speaker 2: I like I'm a little older and shaggy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I wrote, he's so young and dorky looking, not the
Speaker 2: hunk that we know today. But what a career, what
Speaker 2: a man. So he denies it, like why would Eddie
Speaker 2: be here? Who says he is here? And Benson goes
Speaker 2: our eyes and they see him through the window in
Speaker 2: the interview room. So why is Greer lying that he's here.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, he called me and I got him.
Speaker 2: It's just a minor assault charge and they're like an
Speaker 2: assault on a cop and he's the main suspect and
Speaker 2: a murder of a rape victim. And this dude chuckles
Speaker 2: and quickly Benson goes, is there something funny here? He
Speaker 2: doesn't think Eddie can be a killer. He busted him
Speaker 2: three months ago for transporting on tax cigarettes across state
Speaker 2: lines and selling them to bodegas. So he flipped him,
Speaker 2: and you know he works for him now and there's
Speaker 2: a huge operation on cigarettes smugglers. Who cares? Who cares
Speaker 2: cares the tobacco? This is where you get fucked with,
Speaker 2: Like I don't do a shit. I don't care if
Speaker 2: they're fake cigarettes. They're not even fake cigarettes. They're like
Speaker 2: playing a tax game.
Speaker 1: They're just buying someplace cheaper and then selling it in
Speaker 1: New York for the price and keeping the profits right,
Speaker 1: Like you can get a pack of cigarettes in the
Speaker 1: South for like eight dollars when they're fifteen dollars in
Speaker 1: New York City.
Speaker 4: That's all they're doing. I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it seems like a lot to waste government
Speaker 1: resources on, that's for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, this big bus is happening cigarettes. But this
Speaker 2: man could have killed a woman in cold blood.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: They say, we're not leaving without him, and he says,
Speaker 2: yes you are. Stabler walks in, calls him a dirt back,
Speaker 2: and arrests him. Eddie's like, wow, you're fighting over me.
Speaker 2: I'm touch Petre is like he is not leaving this
Speaker 2: building and they're like, fuck you.
Speaker 4: So they take him.
Speaker 2: We're now at forty four John Street to do the
Speaker 2: bus and he's doing it with Sabler in a Newsy's hat.
Speaker 2: Eddie's like, they trust me, and Sandler says they're dumb
Speaker 2: as hell and fuck the cigarette bus.
Speaker 4: This is a fucking waste of my time. They're really
Speaker 4: funny to.
Speaker 1: Get it, so, they are really funny, but it is
Speaker 1: so wild to me how they just always put Sabler undercover,
Speaker 1: even though he has the most cop look of all time,
Speaker 1: Like they're always like, oh, let's send him in as
Speaker 1: an underground smuggler. It's like he has a cross tattoo
Speaker 1: on his arm, he's wearing a Newsy's hat like a
Speaker 1: denim jacket.
Speaker 4: He looks like a fucking cop. Like he just is
Speaker 4: the most copy cop looking guy.
Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, don't believe he's gonna smuggle animals
Speaker 1: or cigarettes or needs a baby like I don't know,
Speaker 1: there's so much, or.
Speaker 4: Going to a rave. Yeah, the rave is the ultimate.
Speaker 2: But Eddie is like, well, next time we do this,
Speaker 2: maybe I can and wear the hat. So they're walking
Speaker 2: through a busted down place and a black Mercedes pulls
Speaker 2: in and it's a guy named Phil. He's old, he's
Speaker 2: wearing leather, and he goes, who's your friends, and you
Speaker 2: know he's so Stabler's playing a guy that owns bodega's
Speaker 2: around the city. Well, Eddie says bodega and it's weird.
Speaker 2: The Stabler character that he created goes corner stores.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says convenience stores because he's being he's trying
Speaker 1: to make them sound more respectable. Like he thinks bodega
Speaker 1: sounds like to you know, like street or something like that.
Speaker 1: And they agree that Eddie is mold that will grow
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 2: And he's like, why would an upstanding businessman like you
Speaker 2: do a shady scheme?
Speaker 4: Edie?
Speaker 2: He starts talking about taxes, and so Eddie says, listen,
Speaker 2: you have a sure thing and he wants in. So
Speaker 2: they do a business chat back and forth on a deal,
Speaker 2: and he wants to see the product, and they keep
Speaker 2: asking questions. There's a muscle type of man. He's like,
Speaker 2: what else, princess, and Saber's like, nobody was talking to you.
Speaker 2: And Phil goes easy tiny and there are so many
Speaker 2: boxes and it's the whole warehouse is full of smokes,
Speaker 2: and Saber leaves Eddie behind and goes to look at
Speaker 2: the boxes. They keep talking business. It feels like a
Speaker 2: full Shark Tank episode. So they're shaking hands and then
Speaker 2: we see all these spy iPad computers. The signal isn't working,
Speaker 2: so they can't see what's going on in the warehouse,
Speaker 2: and Pedro goes, whatever we're charging in and Benson goes,
Speaker 2: what the fuck, Like they didn't do the signal yet,
Speaker 2: stop you know my friend could be in danger, but
Speaker 2: he doesn't care, and he's yeah, He's like, I don't
Speaker 2: I don't care. So Benson size they all head in.
Speaker 2: Boom boom, boom. They're still doing the business deal. It's
Speaker 2: three hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: Bam.
Speaker 2: The cops come in, all hands up. Eddie takes the
Speaker 2: chance to run and the FBI man runs after him.
Speaker 2: Eddie slams him with a pipe. He's bleeding on the ground.
Speaker 2: Eddie gets away and then Bloody Boy says, well, we
Speaker 2: did the bust, and Saber goes, well, there goes my killer,
Speaker 2: and you know, Stabler and Benson or the hospital check
Speaker 2: on Pedro. Benson gets a call from Finn as Stabler
Speaker 2: approaches him a baby boy. I'm calling Pedro baby boy,
Speaker 2: and Pedro is apologizing for going in too fast and
Speaker 2: that he's sorry. Stabler's not having it. It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: how many times you say sorry. My Ada is gonna
Speaker 2: flip out for losing this guy, and he's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I screwed up.
Speaker 4: Let me alone, So Finn.
Speaker 2: Finn's messages that the gun wasn't at the homeless shelter
Speaker 2: and his sister Peg has not seen Eddie either, so
Speaker 2: they're like, you know his ass, where can we find him?
Speaker 2: He goes, I don't know, the Bahamas. He's like he
Speaker 2: was singing of retiring. They're like, retiring this guy is.
Speaker 2: He goes to the homeless shelter. He needs cash? What
Speaker 2: do you mean the Bahamas? Stabler gets an idea. His
Speaker 2: eyes go wide. They know where he needs to go
Speaker 2: get more money. Luke ronson he owns him five grand.
Speaker 2: The trial did fall apart. He never paid Eddie all
Speaker 2: the money he owed him, and they were right. So
Speaker 2: Benson and Stable arrive. We would hear both their voices.
Speaker 2: Eddie has a gun to his head and he's trying
Speaker 2: to get cash out. Luke is inn a vest. Eddie says, Stabler,
Speaker 2: give your car keys and me and the rapists are
Speaker 2: going to go for a ride.
Speaker 4: And they're like, are you dumb?
Speaker 2: We're not letting that happen, and he says my way
Speaker 2: or his brain hits the wall, and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well we want him to die anyway, so we don't care.
Speaker 2: He keeps screaming, threatening and they're like, we'll kill both
Speaker 2: of you. We don't give a shit, and we have
Speaker 2: a perfect shot Eddie gets scared, so they arrest him
Speaker 2: and the gun he had on him is the right gun.
Speaker 4: It's a match.
Speaker 2: We're in cemet room bars and they're like, you're going
Speaker 2: down for murder one, you're going away for life. He says,
Speaker 2: I want a deal. I can give you evidence that
Speaker 2: he rapes a net and they're like nice. Try, They're like,
Speaker 2: she's dead. There's no case because there's no testimony, and
Speaker 2: Sherry goes, no, we did a preliminary hearing and Luke's
Speaker 2: lawyer did cross examine her, so the testimony can be
Speaker 2: read to the jury, but we do need corroboration. And
Speaker 2: that's when Eddie says, yep, pop goes the weasel and
Speaker 2: the deal will be twenty five years instead of life.
Speaker 2: And you know he could get out, so you have
Speaker 2: and give us the scoop. It's a good deal, and
Speaker 2: he wants even better, and she says final offer, and
Speaker 2: they all turn around to leave and he bites.
Speaker 4: So he goes Luke and I went out.
Speaker 2: We made the deal to harass her, and he told
Speaker 2: her all the details of the rape, how he drugs her,
Speaker 2: got her into the back room, and how sweet it
Speaker 2: was and so stable asked, did he ask you to
Speaker 2: shoot a net? He goes, no, I smoked that bitch
Speaker 2: on my own. So he is a killer and fuck off,
Speaker 2: he goes, she had it coming. He's disgusting. They look
Speaker 2: at him like the scum he is, and they say
Speaker 2: we got a deal and plan to leave, but he says, well,
Speaker 2: if you turn it down to murder three, then I
Speaker 2: haven't even juice your story where he got the gun
Speaker 2: he used to shoot her. So they go to Pedro
Speaker 2: Pescal and he's like, what's up and they go, well,
Speaker 2: we're not here for a pat on the back, and
Speaker 2: they show him the gun. He denies knowing what it is,
Speaker 2: and the bosses like, oh, you sure about that, and
Speaker 2: finally Pedro has a look of worry on his face.
Speaker 2: So they're in cement room bars with Pedro and they
Speaker 2: tell him that Eddie says that he got the gun
Speaker 2: from you. He's like, wow, you guys are idiots for
Speaker 2: believing him, and they say no, you're an idiot for
Speaker 2: giving a gun to a known felon. So he keeps
Speaker 2: denying it and the boss finally leans down and goes, okay, well,
Speaker 2: then tell me how this gun is the missing gun
Speaker 2: from short Fuse, which was an undercover plan from last
Speaker 2: year in Texas where they gave weapons to Mexican arms smugglers,
Speaker 2: hoping to track their movements through certain drug cartels. And
Speaker 2: then one gun was used to kill a border patrol agent.
Speaker 2: And that's this gun and it was a bad op,
Speaker 2: says the boss. Pedro gets loud and bangs on the
Speaker 2: table and says it was a good op. Eddie says,
Speaker 2: the only way we could figure out how drug runners
Speaker 2: were getting their supplies. And then when it all fell apart,
Speaker 2: Pedro asked for a transfer up there to Texas. He
Speaker 2: scooped up all these guns, scratched off the serial numbers,
Speaker 2: and a year later the heat died down and you
Speaker 2: got a new job, and you gave it to your
Speaker 2: c I Eddie, and Eddie told him he was going
Speaker 2: to use it for production. And Benson goes, and who's
Speaker 2: the idiot now, He's like, what the NYPD don't have
Speaker 2: informants and Sailor raises his voice, Yeah, and we don't
Speaker 2: hand over our weapons to them. He says he didn't
Speaker 2: know he was gonna use it to kill that woman,
Speaker 2: but Benson says, until he did, that's why you let
Speaker 2: him clock you at that crowbar because you wanted to
Speaker 2: make him and the gun go away. He knows he's
Speaker 2: been got. He's a bad guy. He starts to beg
Speaker 2: and say how they don't understand, but they do, and
Speaker 2: he's just you know, he's just as responsible for a
Speaker 2: net steth. His boss takes his gun and his badge
Speaker 2: and goes, you're done. Stabler cuffs his ass. He looks
Speaker 2: at his boss like you're gonna let them do this,
Speaker 2: and he goes yep, and then I'm gonna shake their
Speaker 2: hands when they're finished, and his baby Fait, you know,
Speaker 2: he's gone.
Speaker 1: It is wild too that he just put his whole
Speaker 1: career on the line for like a cigarette bust. It's
Speaker 1: not like it's like, oh, I'm saving all these traffic
Speaker 1: children or like anything like that. It's like it's cigarettes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. And they put him into the cage.
Speaker 2: At the pre Sainton, Eddie and Luke, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a big ass gross party start yelling at each other.
Speaker 2: Sister Peg is there talking to Benson and and then
Speaker 2: Stabler walks over after he locks them up, So Sister
Speaker 2: Peg has even more evidence. She has photos of Annette
Speaker 2: and the daughter she found with Eddie's shit and Eddie's
Speaker 2: handwriting and has her addresses written down and all the
Speaker 2: places she at. We're hoping this gives Jenna some closure.
Speaker 2: Then Finn is holding the phone and says, wow, you
Speaker 2: can actually tell Jenna in person.
Speaker 4: She's downstairs.
Speaker 2: She's on her way up, so she walks for the
Speaker 2: elevator and Olivia meets her, like, hey, girl, I was
Speaker 2: just gonna call you. She's like, I heard you found
Speaker 2: my mother's killer. And it's Eddie and he's a lifelong criminal.
Speaker 2: He sucks. Luke hired him. And she asks them about
Speaker 2: Luke and she's happy that his trial's back on. She
Speaker 2: asks where they are now, and they're like, honey, you know,
Speaker 2: twenty feet away in the cage. She walks in besides
Speaker 2: Benson and sees the men in there, and she stares
Speaker 2: them down. She heads back to the elevator and she's
Speaker 2: a little shaky and like fucked up. Benson walks back
Speaker 2: into the office and then we hear bang, bang bang.
Speaker 2: We see Jenna like Jenna is holding a gun. She's
Speaker 2: shooting in the cage, full gunfire. She shoots the men
Speaker 2: in there ten gun shots a minimum but so many
Speaker 2: bangs and after the cage, though, she points out, she
Speaker 2: shoots sister Peg in the chest.
Speaker 4: Sister Peg goes down.
Speaker 2: Stabler is behind her and behind a desk holding a
Speaker 2: gun and he has to shoot Jenna dead because she
Speaker 2: won't stop or drop the gun. So Benson's trying to
Speaker 2: help sister Peg. She's in shock. Jenna's crying and deciding
Speaker 2: whether to put the gun down or not. But Eddie's
Speaker 2: not dead yet, and he calls her a crazy bitch
Speaker 2: and then says I should have killed you with your mother.
Speaker 2: So she picks the gun up, and right before she
Speaker 2: could shoot him again, Stabler shoots her right in the
Speaker 2: middle of her stomach. He runs to her kicks the
Speaker 2: gun out of her hand. There's blood coming out of
Speaker 2: her mouth. A Stabler holds the back of her head
Speaker 2: up and she says, I just bought it off the street.
Speaker 2: It was easy. She struggles to breathe. She's dead. She
Speaker 2: shot a team dead. Benson's mouth is still open, fully
Speaker 2: in shock. Stabler is like, damn, I killed a child.
Speaker 2: The precinct is in commotion and everyone running around, and
Speaker 2: then that's the end.
Speaker 1: It's the last moments of Stabler That's the last we
Speaker 1: see of Stabler until he comes back in season like
Speaker 1: twenty three as the whatever Return of the Prodigal Sun
Speaker 1: or whatever, when he comes back for his spinoff. But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the last thing we see is a Stabler nightmare, him
Speaker 1: cradling a teenage girl dead that reminds him of his daughters.
Speaker 4: That's he killed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a performance, What an episode. It's a goetic.
Speaker 2: The cages, the depths of destruction, and yeah, I'm really
Speaker 2: interested in what you're gonna be talking about.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a lot I did not know, but here
Speaker 1: we go. Let's get into it. So yeah, I did.
Speaker 1: Right at the top, I was like, sadly, this episode
Speaker 1: is trying to make a statement about gun control. In
Speaker 1: twenty eleven and thirteen years later, guns are still an
Speaker 1: illness that we have in the United States. But one
Speaker 1: of the references that this episode is making, I think,
Speaker 1: is to the Nicole Duframe case.
Speaker 2: This happened when I lived in New York City. The
Speaker 2: name sounds familiar, but I have no idea what this is.
Speaker 1: I had just moved to New York six months before
Speaker 1: this happened in January of two thousand and five. Two
Speaker 1: couples were walking home from drinking having a good night.
Speaker 1: A bunch of teen muggers like approached them. They'd been
Speaker 1: mugging a bunch of people in the area. There were
Speaker 1: guys and girls in the group of muggers, and they
Speaker 1: started messing with them. They pistol whipped this girl, Nicole's fiance.
Speaker 1: Then she got in their faces and she kept saying,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4: Shoot us?
Speaker 1: And she said it twice before Rudy Fleming, who was
Speaker 1: like maybe the leader of the pack but he had
Speaker 1: a gun, fired a shot into her chest and she
Speaker 1: died within minutes in her fiance's arms. And the story
Speaker 1: was like everywhere because it was like so tragic, so senseless.
Speaker 1: She was kind of trying to stand up for her
Speaker 1: friends and for herself, and it's like kind of what
Speaker 1: it's what happened to Anette in the episode, essentially like
Speaker 1: just give them your purse. Just let them take what
Speaker 1: they want, you know, don't start like an altercation. Is
Speaker 1: kind of the message that this case and this episode
Speaker 1: is probably given. Although in this episode that guy was
Speaker 1: gonna kill her anyway, but yeah, yeah, she gave the
Speaker 1: pursa Yeah, yeah, they were just trying to steal shit
Speaker 1: from them in this one. But yeah, this like this
Speaker 1: was in the paper like every day that I would
Speaker 1: read about this, like it was a really really big
Speaker 1: tragic thing. She was also I think she'd been an actress.
Speaker 1: She was like a beautiful white woman. So obviously that
Speaker 1: gets very highly publicized. So that was all over the
Speaker 1: news when I first moved to New York. But then
Speaker 1: and I'm getting to a final crime that this is
Speaker 1: based on, but this is also references the ATF gun
Speaker 1: walking scandal, which the operation that they call short Views
Speaker 1: is referencing the atfeal.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, so gun.
Speaker 1: Walking is essentially letting criminals come and buy weapons and
Speaker 1: then walk with them, quote unquote like walk away with
Speaker 1: the weapons, especially if they're buying them in large quantities,
Speaker 1: so that they can get traced back to the criminals
Speaker 1: who buy them. So in two thousand and six, the
Speaker 1: ATF launched a project called Project gun Runner, and it
Speaker 1: was aimed at identifying criminal activity in Mexico and reducing
Speaker 1: border violence and drug and gun trafficking. And then there
Speaker 1: was Operation Fast and Furious, which was what the ATF
Speaker 1: called a bunch of Arizona cases under Project gun runner
Speaker 1: and that started in nine.
Speaker 4: So basically they give people guns just to track up.
Speaker 1: Well no, like basically, the ATF would encourage these gun dealers.
Speaker 1: Like the gun dealers would call the ATF and go, hey,
Speaker 1: this like sketchy guy is like trying to buy all
Speaker 1: these guns, Like I don't think he like it seems
Speaker 1: like a huge quantity for just a guy who's hunting
Speaker 1: or whatever, and uh, they would call the ATF and
Speaker 1: the ATF would go would say go ahead, go go
Speaker 1: along with the sale. And then they would ask them
Speaker 1: to sell to these same customers over and over again
Speaker 1: and then provide them with serial numbers and information about
Speaker 1: the buyers. They would give that all to the ATF.
Speaker 1: And at one point they were even trying to GPS
Speaker 1: track They were trying to put these GPS trackers on
Speaker 1: the actual guns themselves, but like the batteries all died out,
Speaker 1: like they didn't have the technology, so.
Speaker 4: Like it didn't work.
Speaker 1: And then they thought that they could lead this to
Speaker 1: bring them down, to bring them back to like somehow
Speaker 1: this would lead them to the big players in these
Speaker 1: cartels and they could bring some of these Mexican cartels down.
Speaker 1: The whole operation was a hot mess, like it didn't
Speaker 1: take down any major players. They lost track of two
Speaker 1: thousand guns, including hundreds of AK forty seven type like
Speaker 1: semi automatic weapons, and no one told Mexico shit, like
Speaker 1: Mexico had no idea this was going on. They weren't
Speaker 1: like working with them, like it was bad. So then
Speaker 1: in late twenty ten, a Border Patrol agent named Brian
Speaker 1: Terry did get killed in Arizona, just like they said
Speaker 1: in the episode, except it wasn't Texas. It was Arizona
Speaker 1: in real life, near the border allegedly by the articles
Speaker 1: I read said illegal aliens, but I mean undocumented people
Speaker 1: armed with at least two AK forty seven variant rifles
Speaker 1: trafficked by the Fast and the Furious suspects who had
Speaker 1: not been arrested by the ATF. So the public was
Speaker 1: not told about the link between Terry's murder and Fast
Speaker 1: and the Furious, and nothing about the gun walking was
Speaker 1: public either, And it wasn't until people came some whistleblowers
Speaker 1: came forward. They took it to Congress, and this all
Speaker 1: came to light and Charles Grassley, who's like a Republican
Speaker 1: senator from Iowa. In early twenty eleven started investigating the
Speaker 1: ATFS controversial gun walking practice. Eric Holder was the Attorney
Speaker 1: General at that time under Obama and the House. The
Speaker 1: House actually held him in contempt, which had never happened before,
Speaker 1: like an attorney general had never been held in contempt
Speaker 1: of Congress, which Eric Holder got. The Republicans were investigating.
Speaker 1: They all thought Obama knew what was happening, and he
Speaker 1: was up for reelection in twenty twelve. And then eventually
Speaker 1: Obama's administration withdrew an executive privileged claim and turned over
Speaker 1: documents relating to the whole controversy. And then when we're
Speaker 1: when Democrats took over again were re elected in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: like it just they just kind of didn't investigate it
Speaker 1: anymore and it was just kind of considered a major flop,
Speaker 1: like the whole thing Floppiana.
Speaker 4: So that's the ATF gone walking scandal.
Speaker 1: But case I want to get into, because this is
Speaker 1: a kind of a this is a crazy This is
Speaker 1: like a famous case that I had never heard anything about,
Speaker 1: but famous for a certain reason is the case of
Speaker 1: Marvin Gabrion So in Cedar Springs, Michigan on August sixth
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety seven, an eighteen year old girl named
Speaker 1: Rachel Timmerman was invited to play cards by a family
Speaker 1: friend named Wayne Davis and a classmate named Mikey Gabrion. Rachel,
Speaker 1: at the time had a six week old daughter named Shannon,
Speaker 1: So Mike and Wayne go to pick up Rachel along
Speaker 1: with Mikey's uncle, Marvin gabrieon the second Immediately why is
Speaker 1: there a random uncle hanging out with a bunch of teens,
Speaker 1: But en route to the game, Marvin forces the other
Speaker 1: two guys out of the car, like when they stop
Speaker 1: to get beer or something, and then he drives off
Speaker 1: with Rachel, takes her to a secluded area and does
Speaker 1: sexually assault her.
Speaker 4: The next day, Yeah, fucked up. Fucked up. The next day, August.
Speaker 1: Seventh, even though she was very scared, She's like, this
Speaker 1: guy's gonna kill me, Like I shouldn't do, I shouldn't say.
Speaker 1: She did report the rape to the Nowago County Sheriff's Department,
Speaker 1: and Marvin Gabrielle was arrested and charged, and he was
Speaker 1: forty four around the time that he was set to
Speaker 1: stand trial, which was the following year. In June of
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven now. In May of nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: the month before the trial, Rachel calls the police twice
Speaker 1: to say that she's afraid for her life, like she's
Speaker 1: very scared that he's going to do something to her.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: June third, nineteen ninety seven, two days before the rape
Speaker 1: trial is set to start, Rachel leaves the house with
Speaker 1: her eleven month old daughter, Shannon. She tells her family
Speaker 1: that she's going on a date with a guy she
Speaker 1: met at work.
Speaker 4: John.
Speaker 1: She brought Shannon because the guy specifically asked her to
Speaker 1: red flag and then her father gets a letter like
Speaker 1: the next day, the family's like, that's weird.
Speaker 4: Where is she? Her father gets a letter saying, I
Speaker 4: met the man in my dreams. I'm eloping and I'm
Speaker 4: leaving town.
Speaker 1: A few days later, they get another letter that's postmarked
Speaker 1: from Little Rock, Arkansas, and she says, ME and Shannon
Speaker 1: are starting a new life in Little Rock and these
Speaker 1: letters are in her handwriting. The prosecutor and the judge
Speaker 1: in the case also get letters in Rachel's handwriting saying
Speaker 1: that I made up the rape accusation.
Speaker 4: I want to drop the charges.
Speaker 1: And her family thought this was all like legit and
Speaker 1: no one really looked into it, like she was never
Speaker 1: really declared a missing person. A month later, July fifth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, a pair of turtle hunters I didn't
Speaker 1: know people were hunting turtle discovered Rachel's decomposing body floating
Speaker 1: in Oxford Lake in the Huron Manistee National Forest, which
Speaker 1: is a federal government owned forest. She had duct tape,
Speaker 1: so she never made it to Arkansas because that's Michigan, right,
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is all Michigan. She was never in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: She had duct tape over her eyes and her mouth.
Speaker 1: Her hands were handcuffed behind her back. Chains were wrapped
Speaker 1: around her torso and tied to cinder blocks used to
Speaker 1: weigh her down. And I guess like the reason she
Speaker 1: rose to the top was like bacterial gassing, like when
Speaker 1: the body like let's go of all the gases, and
Speaker 1: like she rose up to the top even though she
Speaker 1: was tied down.
Speaker 4: The medical examiner, this is so dark. The medical examiner.
Speaker 1: Said that the cause of death was asphyxia by drowning
Speaker 1: and that she was alive when she went into the lake.
Speaker 1: So he just threw her into the lake and then
Speaker 1: the baby Shannon was nowhere to be found. Gabrieon is
Speaker 1: obviously the prime suspect. Police went and searched his home.
Speaker 1: They found keys that matched the padlock used to secure
Speaker 1: her body to the to the chains, as well as
Speaker 1: concrete blocks that were stained with the same paint as
Speaker 1: the ones that were tied to her body and retrieved
Speaker 1: from the lake. The nephew, Mikey Gabrieon's to say, hey, like,
Speaker 1: what the the Oh my god, the gil like, I know,
Speaker 1: like was this note as a creepy uncle?
Speaker 4: Like, well, I'll get into a little bit more of
Speaker 4: the guy's backstory.
Speaker 2: The nephew so fun and the lot like this girl
Speaker 2: just gets oh my god, this I know, it's horrific.
Speaker 1: It's horrific, and like the baby was she just had
Speaker 1: this like little baby and it's so sad. The nephew
Speaker 1: took them to this campsite that his uncle used a lot,
Speaker 1: and when they were there they found his tent with
Speaker 1: bolt cutters, chain duct tape, a woman's hair clip, and
Speaker 1: silicon nipples for baby bottles, so he had obviously.
Speaker 4: Taken them there.
Speaker 1: It also came to light that Gabrieone had a friend,
Speaker 1: a handyman named John Weeks, and weeks girlfriend said she
Speaker 1: knew gabrieon as Lance, like that was like an alias
Speaker 1: he went under. She also said that she had caught
Speaker 1: John on the phone talking to a girl named Rachel,
Speaker 1: but he told her, oh, I'm just setting her up
Speaker 1: on a date with Lance. So Weeks is the guy
Speaker 1: that Rachel was going on on the date with. Like Rachel,
Speaker 1: It's unclear whether she knew they were friends, but she
Speaker 1: obviously had no idea that Gabrion was setting this all
Speaker 1: up like much in the same way as you know
Speaker 1: Luke was setting up Eddie to go fucking harass Annette.
Speaker 1: He sends his friend to go take her out on
Speaker 1: a date like lure her. Multiple people later, like I think,
Speaker 1: multiple people testified to seeing Weeks, Gabrion, and Rachel around
Speaker 1: Oxford Lake the day after her disappearance. John Weeks was
Speaker 1: never seen again, and Gabriel is believed to have been
Speaker 1: the last to see him alive in June of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven, around the same time that you know Rachel
Speaker 1: went missing. Also, Wayne Davis, the family friend who picked
Speaker 1: Rachel up the night of the rape and was set
Speaker 1: to testify in the rape trial, he had gone missing
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen ninety seven, so five years later,
Speaker 1: in July of two thousand and two, canoeists found his
Speaker 1: body in twin Wood Lake, in the same National Forest
Speaker 1: where Rachel was found. So gabriel had also lived in
Speaker 1: the house of a guy named Robert Allen who had
Speaker 1: gone missing in nineteen ninety five. But don't worry, Gabrielle
Speaker 1: took care of cashing all his Social Security checks and
Speaker 1: living in his house until nineteen ninety seven, and then
Speaker 1: he got busted on that. So now he is the
Speaker 1: prime suspect in the disappearance of Weeks, Alan and Davis,
Speaker 1: but he hasn't been charged in any of these murders
Speaker 1: or because, I mean with Weeks and Alan they never
Speaker 1: found a body, and then with Davis they didn't find
Speaker 1: his body for five years.
Speaker 4: It might be hard to tie him to it.
Speaker 1: But after they found Rachel's body, Gabrielle himself was missing
Speaker 1: for two months like they couldn't find him, and then
Speaker 1: finally authorities got a tip that he was going to
Speaker 1: be cashing a Social Security check in Sherman, New York,
Speaker 1: so they busted him at the post office in Sherman,
Speaker 1: New York, ROBERTA. Gilligan, who's like a retired special agent
Speaker 1: for the FBI, told Oxygen quote, he was very uncooperative.
Speaker 1: At times, he would try to be charming, but it
Speaker 1: was unnerving to be around him. He did seem evil
Speaker 1: end quote. Shannon has never been and it is widely
Speaker 1: believed that Gabrion killed her. Of course, investigators believe he
Speaker 1: used the threat of harming Shannon to get Rachel to
Speaker 1: write the letters saying I'm fine, I want to drop
Speaker 1: the charges whatever, And allegedly Gabrione told fellow inmates that
Speaker 1: he killed the baby because he didn't know what else
Speaker 1: to do with her. So I don't know if because
Speaker 1: of no body they didn't charge him with hers. But
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, Gabrion did go to trial
Speaker 1: for Rachel's murder. At trial, his defense attorneys, well maybe
Speaker 1: not at this trial, actually at one of his appeals. Eventually,
Speaker 1: his defense attorneys try to bring up his tough upbringing,
Speaker 1: like he grew up in crazy poverty, like he was
Speaker 1: the youngest of all these kids, his whole family would
Speaker 1: beat up on him, like he was apparently being forced
Speaker 1: to box siblings when he was four years old. There
Speaker 1: was tons of substance abuse and violence in his home.
Speaker 1: He was neglected by his parents. But as a child,
Speaker 1: a lot of people testified that he was very intelligent,
Speaker 1: and he was very kind. He helped care for elderly relatives,
Speaker 1: and he also cared for an intellectually disabled cousin that
Speaker 1: he had. He had an IQ of one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty one, which one of the articles I read said
Speaker 1: is the lower end of various very superior intelligence. But
Speaker 1: after he graduated high school, he suffered quote an astonishing
Speaker 1: number end quote of brain injuries in up to fourteen
Speaker 1: car and motorcycle crashes. And this is where people start
Speaker 1: to say his personality change, like he became a different person.
Speaker 1: He was drinking, Yeah, he was drinking a ton. He
Speaker 1: was homeless, He would start bar fights. He had nine
Speaker 1: arrests for drunk driving, and after his arrest for the murder,
Speaker 1: he started like writing in code that no one could understand.
Speaker 1: He wrote letters to his lawyers begged him to stop,
Speaker 1: but he wrote letters to the judge, to prosecutors, to
Speaker 1: the victims family, to the Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh,
Speaker 1: who by the way, was dead, to the owner of
Speaker 1: the Dallas Mavericks like he was just he heard voices.
Speaker 4: He was trying to take his own life.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, there's a pretty good case here for
Speaker 1: someone that has like a traumatic brain injury at the
Speaker 1: very least, if not other mental health issues. And his
Speaker 1: defense team tried to highlight the head injuries as a
Speaker 1: cause for the violence. And he was prone to violence.
Speaker 1: He had a history of assault and sexual assault. And
Speaker 1: the jury saw this violent nature firsthand when he punched
Speaker 1: one of his own defense attorneys, David Stebbins, in the
Speaker 1: face in open court. So he also tried to He
Speaker 1: attempted to fire his counsel and represent himself, and the
Speaker 1: judge denied it. The judge was like, he's been so
Speaker 1: disruptive this entire case that if he is allowed to
Speaker 1: represent himself, it will only get worse. I mean, his
Speaker 1: behavior was wild. He filed a ton of bonkers motions.
Speaker 1: He was cursing, he was aggressive. He was convicted, and
Speaker 1: he was sentenced to death. However, this is interesting, Michigan
Speaker 1: abolished the death penalty in eighteen forty six. The United
Speaker 1: States versus Gabriel is considered a landmark case for its
Speaker 1: use of the death penalty in a non death penalty state.
Speaker 1: The reason was Rachel's body was found on federal land.
Speaker 1: Remember I mentioned before that this was a government owned forest,
Speaker 1: a federal land, so it became a federal crime, and
Speaker 1: he was tried in federal court, and Gabriel was the
Speaker 1: first person in the US to get the death penalty
Speaker 1: for a crime committed in a non death penalty state
Speaker 1: since the federal death penalty came back was reinstated in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 4: It's so funny I did like a.
Speaker 1: Paper on the death penalty I in like nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: probably like when I was like an elementary school kid.
Speaker 1: And it's probably because this was like in the conversation,
Speaker 1: because it was coming back. Like I don't think I
Speaker 1: even realized that in nineteen eighty eight the death penalty
Speaker 1: came back, or that it had even ever been gone.
Speaker 4: So that's I guess why I'm writing papers about it. Anyway.
Speaker 4: He was also the first.
Speaker 1: Person to be sentenced to death in the state of
Speaker 1: Michigan since nineteen thirty seven. So his defense tried to
Speaker 1: argue that it was possible she was killed outside the
Speaker 1: park and just disposed of there, but the jury was like, no,
Speaker 1: she was killed inside the park. I mean probably because
Speaker 1: the emmy said that she was alive when she went
Speaker 1: into the water. So if she drowned in that lake,
Speaker 1: it's the forensics would bear that out. So he appealed
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven and the conviction was upheld, but the
Speaker 1: sentence was overturned. But then in twenty thirteen, the Sixth
Speaker 1: Court Circuit of Appeals overturned the earlier decision and the
Speaker 1: death penalty was reinstated. So he sat on death row
Speaker 1: at the United States Penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana for
Speaker 1: a long time, and then eventually he was moved to
Speaker 1: the US Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri,
Speaker 1: and that's where he still is. And he's seventy one
Speaker 1: years old, and according to the Death Penalty Information Center,
Speaker 1: Gabriel is the only Michigan inmate awaiting the death penalty, And.
Speaker 4: So they might still kill him in Springfield, Missouri.
Speaker 1: Yes, because it's a US Medical center for federal prisoners.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's somehow got commuted because of mental
Speaker 1: health stuff. Like if you I looked him up in
Speaker 1: the federal lockup and it still says death, it still
Speaker 1: says like death penalty like under him. So it's like
Speaker 1: they didn't commute it, but they might be trying to
Speaker 1: just kind of kick it down the field until he
Speaker 1: dies of natural causes because he's been there for dude
Speaker 1: that like asked her out on a date. Weeks disappeared.
Speaker 1: No one has ever found They never found him. And
Speaker 1: I killed him.
Speaker 4: I mean I killed him. He killed the baby, he
Speaker 4: killed her because he rapes her. An't no fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Weeks is probably the inspiration for the Eddie
Speaker 1: Skinner character, but Gabrieon is the psycho, whereas I think
Speaker 1: that Eddie Skinner is also the psycho. And it's like
Speaker 1: they've sort of merged that, you know, like Luke didn't
Speaker 1: want to hurt this woman. I don't think he just
Speaker 1: wanted her to like not testify. Yeah, but we'll hurt
Speaker 1: her more than he already heard her. But yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1: I just like I didn't know any of this, like
Speaker 1: federal death penalty on federal land and you know, so,
Speaker 1: but I wonder if it's like I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if they're trying to like anything I could
Speaker 1: find that was the most updated was really from like
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and it was all about how he
Speaker 1: was just kind of still awaiting Jath penalty.
Speaker 4: Crazy. Yeah, so that is.
Speaker 2: Bad on that, but one fucking looneitune and your life
Speaker 2: is over. It's so scary, I know, but but I'm
Speaker 2: also like, I don't know, it's family dynamics are so
Speaker 2: unique and stuff, but like, there's no way in hell
Speaker 2: I could just mess it, like write a letter to
Speaker 2: my parents being like, hey I eloped, I'm good, peace out,
Speaker 2: Like that just wouldn't really work in my household, I know,
Speaker 2: but I know everyone's like different. Yeah, she's like because
Speaker 2: we've seen this on SVU where they're like she's in
Speaker 2: the Peace Corps and I get a letter once in
Speaker 2: a while and I'm like, what, yeah, in what world
Speaker 2: is I know?
Speaker 3: I know, I know.
Speaker 4: She's in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: What I think It's like they, well, in one of
Speaker 1: the articles I read, it said, well, we didn't like it,
Speaker 1: but she's an adult, Like what could we do? And
Speaker 1: so because at that point she's nineteen, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's like the it's like the one, it's like the
Speaker 1: what we just did in the tunnel Blind episode where
Speaker 1: that girl was just like my mom, I'm going to
Speaker 1: New York and like the mom was like, I don't
Speaker 1: like this, but I don't know what I can do
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 4: You're nineteen years old.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It's crazy. But we do have a great guest to clutch.
Speaker 4: It has so long, long time coming. Yeah, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is actually a friend of ours that
Speaker 1: we've been wanting to get on the show forever. She
Speaker 1: is an actor who's been featured in shows like Sons
Speaker 1: of Anarchy, Lie to Me, United States of Tara. She's
Speaker 1: also in horror movies like The Conjuring and Agnes. But
Speaker 1: you know where today as the gun wielding teen who
Speaker 1: didn't get to go to prom but did get shot
Speaker 1: by Elliott Stabler Jenna Fox. Guys enjoy our chat with
Speaker 1: the lovely Haley McFarland.
Speaker 4: Hi, Yeah, Hi, Hi, the time has come. I can't
Speaker 4: believe years in the make it.
Speaker 1: I know we've been at least I have been avoiding
Speaker 1: pouncing on you at parties for years to ask you
Speaker 1: a million questions about SVU, And now we can finally
Speaker 1: do it in a professional capacity, and I'm very excited,
Speaker 1: well awesome.
Speaker 2: Because not many people can say that they were in,
Speaker 2: like Christopher Maloney's final episode and he shot you dead.
Speaker 4: I mean it is like wild.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's something that I will brag about two strangers.
Speaker 5: Like I'm not like to think about the thing like
Speaker 5: the acting stuff that I do that much, but that's one.
Speaker 4: That I will be like, well you murder sister Peg.
Speaker 1: I mean I would say you're like in the top
Speaker 1: in the layd like SVU. Historical characters like that are
Speaker 1: outside of cast. I mean, like you, you altered the
Speaker 1: course of the show because I mean, even though it
Speaker 1: was about contrastable stuff like Maloney, like Stabler's character doesn't
Speaker 1: come back because.
Speaker 4: I think he's so rocked and he had to kill
Speaker 4: a sixteen year old girl, and but I was, I didn't.
Speaker 2: I wish you know, it was it was poetic because
Speaker 2: you got to like cough blood and you know Maloney's arms. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm on your side, you know. I like that
Speaker 2: you were able to shoot those guys that were in
Speaker 2: one cage ready for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah. How old were you? How old were you here?
Speaker 4: I was I was twenty at the time. I think
Speaker 4: I just hearded twenty okay, And were you in New York?
Speaker 4: La are you a theater kid. What's your journey?
Speaker 5: Oh? I well I was a I was like a
Speaker 5: musical theater kid in Oklahoma growing up.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's what your Wikipedia Wikipedia.
Speaker 1: So that like you got kind of dragged over into
Speaker 1: regular acting, but you were a musical theater kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 5: I I always wanted to be and I wanted to
Speaker 5: do it all. But yeah, it just happened that a
Speaker 5: manager who knew my acting teacher in Oklahoma, a manager
Speaker 5: out in LA was like looking for kids, and I
Speaker 5: was like on a tape that was sent over to him,
Speaker 5: and he liked me, and so I was yeah, I
Speaker 5: started going for kid.
Speaker 4: Like how old were you? I? Oh yeah, I was
Speaker 4: twelve twelve?
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was like uh when I.
Speaker 5: Started, it was like they would fax you the audition sides,
Speaker 5: like it was like just before Yeah so.
Speaker 4: You heard that, Like you heard that, like and you
Speaker 4: were like gotta get going star.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
Speaker 4: We would.
Speaker 5: We would get the call and we'd have to like
Speaker 5: unplug that we didn't have like a send, you know,
Speaker 5: we'd have to unplug the phone line and then plug
Speaker 5: in the thing. It was a big I'd be waiting
Speaker 5: next to the fax machine. Like Christmas morning. She Wow,
Speaker 5: did you watch SVU like when you booked so, when
Speaker 5: you booked this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had watched. I had watched every season of
Speaker 4: it up until that point. I was a big fan.
Speaker 5: I was very excited and when I found out that
Speaker 5: it was the final episode, like I didn't like when
Speaker 5: I booked it, I realized I realized it was the
Speaker 5: final episode of the season and so.
Speaker 4: And I also had maybe seen like were there. I
Speaker 4: think there were.
Speaker 5: It's hard to remember so long ago, but I think
Speaker 5: there were articles saying that this was his final season.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but what we I don't remember at
Speaker 1: the time, but what we've heard from other people in
Speaker 1: interviews have told us that they didn't know that it
Speaker 1: was going to be episode, all the contracting stuff and
Speaker 1: then suddenly like he just was there for the.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I I well, knowing that it was the season finale,
Speaker 5: I knew there had to be something extra crazy that happened.
Speaker 4: So I remember, like, but even the like excited is.
Speaker 2: Intense, Like I feel like that would haunt me even
Speaker 2: just I don't know, it's a it's a haunting shootdown
Speaker 2: up top from top to it was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a very intense. Every scene was very
Speaker 4: very intense. Was Eddie normal in life, that little Yeah,
Speaker 4: yeah he was.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 4: He was very cool.
Speaker 1: That guy works a ton. I looked up his IMDb.
Speaker 1: He's a huge he works all the time.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Can I tell you a very funny story? I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 4: well you tell us everything. We want to know everything.
Speaker 4: One of the the other guest actors was he was so.
Speaker 5: Nice and like enthusiastic, and he had helped another actor
Speaker 5: on it with they with an audition. He helped him
Speaker 5: tape an audition and I just remember he was so
Speaker 5: like pumped about how good this audition was. That he
Speaker 5: made the guy like show me the audition and it
Speaker 5: was an enthusiasm and like a sweetness that I was like,
Speaker 5: is this I mean, twenty year old me was like,
Speaker 5: is this like the first like thing he has ever done?
Speaker 5: Like he's he's just like so happy to be there
Speaker 5: and positive and kind. And I look afterwards, I looked
Speaker 5: it up and obviously it wasn't he'd been working a
Speaker 5: lot for a long time.
Speaker 4: But that ended up being Petro Pascal.
Speaker 1: He was my god.
Speaker 4: So he was so positive and like, yeah, I was
Speaker 4: just like he seems like new he that's so funny.
Speaker 5: He still had the he still had the energy of
Speaker 5: U obviously obviously he still does. It's like an enthusiasm.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, Apa.
Speaker 2: There's a current interview where they bring up Buffy and
Speaker 2: he remembers every single detail and that it helped get
Speaker 2: a sad car like he truly like loves all these things.
Speaker 2: And I can't believe you were like, yeah, this guy's
Speaker 2: a freak and now he's just jaded. Yeah, you were
Speaker 2: a jaded young twenty year old in the.
Speaker 1: Biz because he talked he talks about us for you
Speaker 1: too in interviews, Like he talked.
Speaker 4: About it fondly, like I think he yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was so.
Speaker 4: I just remember he was so like happy to be
Speaker 4: there and happy to like work how hard? Yeah, tell
Speaker 4: us how the shooting choreo went. You know, they had
Speaker 4: like the.
Speaker 5: Face like the blank like quarter rounds or whatever. And
Speaker 5: I had never shot a gun before, and so they
Speaker 5: had me like practice it a few times, like on
Speaker 5: the day once they had the firearms men there, and
Speaker 5: like I didn't anticipate being as afraid of guns as
Speaker 5: I learned I am. On that day, Like every time
Speaker 5: the guy would come and you know, they had they
Speaker 5: like show you like that there's that the front of
Speaker 5: the gun is plug and there's nothing in the in
Speaker 5: the chamber and whatever. And every time the guy would
Speaker 5: come up to like show me that stuff and like
Speaker 5: hand it to me and I would like put it
Speaker 5: in my in my belt, I would like start crying
Speaker 5: because I was just I just really I really don't
Speaker 5: like him. Yeah, I like they freak me out. And
Speaker 5: uh he was very kind and he like looked distressed
Speaker 5: every time.
Speaker 1: I'd be like okay, like yeah, I would probably feel
Speaker 1: the same, like I don't like them. I've never really
Speaker 1: I've never shot anything but like a rifle at summer
Speaker 1: camp for you know, like I've never and I would
Speaker 1: be scared and then you're pointing it at real people
Speaker 1: and yeah like yeah.
Speaker 4: And you see like the squibs and stuff go off.
Speaker 2: Like it was scary.
Speaker 5: Uh oh yeah, I had I like didn't anticipate. I
Speaker 5: had like nightmares about it for a little while.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, how many times did you do this
Speaker 2: the whole shootout?
Speaker 4: Mmmm? I don't no, I can't remember that.
Speaker 5: It was like a full day of she like that
Speaker 5: they scheduled it out for a full day because it
Speaker 5: was there was so many angles and stuff. It was
Speaker 5: my first time having like my only time I think,
Speaker 5: having like a squib too, where like it you know,
Speaker 5: I get shot and it explodes, and that was I
Speaker 5: was nervous about that the first time. I screamed when
Speaker 5: it happened, which like I don't think happens when you
Speaker 5: actually get it.
Speaker 4: Maybe it does. Yeah, yeah, for sure they didn't. They
Speaker 4: didn't put that one in the I watched it back.
Speaker 4: They didn't put that take in the in the episode.
Speaker 4: And you spit out blood too, mm hmmm, what was
Speaker 4: that tasty?
Speaker 5: It's like usually like a corn syrup kind of kind
Speaker 5: of thing. It's never it's like it's viscous in a
Speaker 5: way that is not pleasant.
Speaker 1: Actually, that's funny that you mentioned corn syrup. I made
Speaker 1: my own blood when I went to Joe's Halloween party
Speaker 1: right before pandemic when.
Speaker 4: I was a move at homes. So I had a
Speaker 4: little viol of blood and I made it very enough. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: you guys are a Halloween couple. Yes, I like uh,
Speaker 4: I like haunted houses.
Speaker 5: I like going to you know, the like Halloween horror
Speaker 5: nights and yeah, not scary farm.
Speaker 4: I went to this year very fun.
Speaker 1: I want to there next year. I heard that's really good.
Speaker 1: I've done Halloween horror nites twice, but never not scary,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it was great. And Joe likes hosting parties
Speaker 5: and dressing up. Yes, I like decorating, so I can decorate,
Speaker 5: he can, and then once the party starts, I just
Speaker 5: kind of become a partygoer and he takes over hosting duty,
Speaker 5: which is great.
Speaker 4: You're like, I don't know where ice is, I don't
Speaker 4: know how to find more drinks. I'm sorry. Wow, I
Speaker 4: would like to dive into the catalog. So I made
Speaker 4: a list.
Speaker 2: I went to the IMDb I made and I'll just say,
Speaker 2: a show, you're in a lot of like beloved shows,
Speaker 2: and then you'll tell.
Speaker 4: Us something about it. Okay, all right, I'm gonna Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 5: Gilmore Girls. That was the first TV or film thing
Speaker 5: I had ever done out in LA. It was the
Speaker 5: first part like part that I've done a couple of
Speaker 5: commercials up until then, but it was my favorite show
Speaker 5: and it was just like a complete, like surreal dream
Speaker 5: to be on it. Like I still I'm one of
Speaker 5: those people who will like watch it in the fall.
Speaker 5: I like, I really enjoy it, but I have to
Speaker 5: there's something like the two episodes that I'm in, I
Speaker 5: just skip those two because it like messes with my
Speaker 5: like dream world.
Speaker 4: So I just like, I just you know, I just
Speaker 4: watch it. That's so fun, and I skip those two episodes. Okay,
Speaker 4: So yeah, You're like, that takes me out of it.
Speaker 1: It's like when I see an Ectron SVU that's already
Speaker 1: played a killer and now they're playing like a lawyer.
Speaker 4: I'm like, this is taking me out of it. So
Speaker 4: that oh, you see yourself would take you out. I know,
Speaker 4: that's what I'm hoping for. I hope they I hope
Speaker 4: they bring me back. Someday. They will bring you back.
Speaker 1: Someday they've got I mean, I don't know, though, You're
Speaker 1: so this part is so iconic, but I think they will.
Speaker 1: It's like it's been literally double as many episodes. It's
Speaker 1: like Anothery're on season twenty six.
Speaker 2: So Kelly Bishop from we both it's our blind Spot
Speaker 2: and neither of us have watched Gilbourg girl.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so people will be like, you didn't talk about
Speaker 4: it enough and.
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, because Kelly Bishop's in an episode where
Speaker 1: she gets killed and we we're just like, oh, she's great,
Speaker 1: Yeah she does Broadway blah, oh we don't mention Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 1: And they went off. They were so mad. So here
Speaker 1: we are refilling their Gilmore Girls tank with you. That's
Speaker 1: so exciting. And wait, can I say one Sons of Anarchy?
Speaker 1: I'm a huge I was a huge fan of Sons
Speaker 1: of Anarchy. I completely never put it together that you
Speaker 1: were Brooke, Like I just I watched that whole I
Speaker 1: watched it before I knew Joe or you or anybody,
Speaker 1: and so like I didn't, and now I'm like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: you were like rat Boy's girlfriend, right, mm hmm, yeah,
Speaker 1: how was that?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 4: It was very very cool.
Speaker 5: I've I've never That's like maybe the thing that I
Speaker 5: get recognized for the most. Really it's it's it has
Speaker 5: a lot of people love that show and they're scared,
Speaker 5: like no, no, they're usually very cool people to watch.
Speaker 5: It's yeah, I I I've only watched the first couple
Speaker 5: of seasons because it is it gets very violent and
Speaker 5: that like.
Speaker 1: So violent, Like there are scenes from that show that
Speaker 1: I still think about how violent.
Speaker 4: They are are, like haunting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I was able to watch the last season
Speaker 5: because I had read a lot of the scripts and
Speaker 5: so I knew what was going to happen, because usually
Speaker 5: it's like the tension of like somebody being and you know,
Speaker 5: like and that that's the thing that I that I
Speaker 5: can't handle, and so I was able to watch it.
Speaker 5: It's it's crazy what people can get it on cable,
Speaker 5: can show on TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like I was always I mean I watched
Speaker 1: it all pretty much after the fact. I like that
Speaker 1: it was on or I caught up and then I
Speaker 1: caught up with like the last season or something. But
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, this is on my computer,
Speaker 1: but this feels like too much for cable. But wait,
Speaker 1: so what's the story with this show? Lie to me
Speaker 1: because that was like a huge series regular. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the photo of you with Tim Row, Like, I have
Speaker 1: such a crush on him. I am obsessed with him,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I would like to know a lot of information.
Speaker 4: Oh he's terrific.
Speaker 5: It was, Yeah, it's the it was like the first
Speaker 5: kind of series the only series regular thing I have
Speaker 5: I have ever done. I played his daughter on it,
Speaker 5: and he is like a human light detector in the show.
Speaker 5: I'm his one blind spot. He can't help it lying
Speaker 5: or like he can, but like if he can, he
Speaker 5: like doesn't know how to, you know, I make and
Speaker 5: promise that he'll never use his techniques on me or
Speaker 5: what it was.
Speaker 4: It was very very I had so much fun with him.
Speaker 5: I Yeah, he and I got along really well, and
Speaker 5: like he you know, he basically treated me like his daughter.
Speaker 4: We had We had so much fun.
Speaker 5: He was actually in he just happened to be in
Speaker 5: New York, uh, working on something else when I was
Speaker 5: doing my episode of SVU, And so we like met
Speaker 5: up and hung out when we were there because it
Speaker 5: was like around the time I think it light to
Speaker 5: me had like ended was around then until we were
Speaker 5: still like talking a whole bunch.
Speaker 4: And yeah, we like a little in New York.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we like freaked people out a couple of times,
Speaker 5: like going to restaurants or whatever, and they'd be like.
Speaker 4: What are what what are you doing here? Are you together?
Speaker 4: Like they thought we were actually uh father and daughter
Speaker 4: and you were like a teen when you did that one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had like maybe I just turned eight. I
Speaker 5: was like just about to turn eighteen when I started
Speaker 5: doing that. It was like seventeen to nineteen or twenty.
Speaker 4: I kind of want to do a fuck Mary kill
Speaker 4: with the guys in the cage.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Pedro, Pascal, the guy Eddy, Eddie, and
Speaker 1: then the rapist hair drop.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he gotta kill Luke. Yeah, you gotta guy now
Speaker 5: in a rapist Yeah, number one. What do you think
Speaker 5: Mary Page Pascal?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And then I guess you just have to
Speaker 2: have a romp with Eddie. But it's not Yeah, but
Speaker 2: Eddie's cute. He's got a sense of humor. He's just
Speaker 2: on the wrong side of the tracks exactly. He's like
Speaker 2: the sad track list almost dude we've ever seen honest.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like an Ali Kat in a Disney movie
Speaker 4: or something. That guy totally well yeah, Pedro selling the
Speaker 4: guns to the I mean, what a dynamic episode to
Speaker 4: be a part of. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 5: And you know this is going to I feel incredibly
Speaker 5: dumb admitting this, uh, but I watched it back last
Speaker 5: night and I never thought about how the episode is
Speaker 5: called Smoked and they're doing like cigarette uh illegal cigarettes
Speaker 5: uh involved in you know, like they say like I
Speaker 5: smoked the bitch.
Speaker 4: That's like the line. But also they are it's a
Speaker 4: cigarette sting.
Speaker 1: I didn't think about it till that they I didn't
Speaker 1: think about that either, but that is like, so I
Speaker 1: feel like they're always trying to like add little layers and.
Speaker 2: Stuff and like, well, because this was also the showrunner,
Speaker 2: Neil Bear's final episode, you know, he left, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: that's like a nice that's fair him on the way out,
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, now.
Speaker 5: Now here's something that I believe, Like I believe I
Speaker 5: was told on set, or maybe I just read it
Speaker 5: after the fact, but it was Neilbhaar's last episode, and
Speaker 5: I think somebody told me that he had created the
Speaker 5: character of Sister Peg, he had written her first episode.
Speaker 4: We might have to go back and check this. That's
Speaker 4: probably true. We could double check.
Speaker 5: But yeah, they brought her back after like she hadn't
Speaker 5: been on for a few years, and they brought her
Speaker 5: back just so he could take her with him because
Speaker 5: he was leaving, and he was like, she's mine.
Speaker 4: If I can't have her, no one can. A little freak.
Speaker 4: But you might have to look that up and verify
Speaker 4: it first.
Speaker 2: Well, you're IMDb most current thing scare tactics. What is that? Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I saw it on your Insta too. What's up? Yeah,
Speaker 4: a close friend of mine.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: They rebooted Scare Tactics and.
Speaker 5: With Monkey Paw uh Jordan Peele's production company, and so
Speaker 5: they were.
Speaker 4: You know making it. It's like as.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you had ever watched uh the
Speaker 5: old version of it, but it's it's like as silly.
Speaker 4: But they uh like the MTV show.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was on I think Sci Fi, but they
Speaker 5: would like yes where they Yeah, they make you it's
Speaker 5: it's a prank show where they make you think you're
Speaker 5: like living out like an actual horror movie. Wow.
Speaker 1: Wait, that's crazy because like it was on the the
Speaker 1: early aughts and it was on Sci Fi and and
Speaker 1: it was first hosted the first two seasons by Shannon
Speaker 1: Doherty r I P. Then a season, then Stephen Baldwin,
Speaker 1: then Tracy Morgan. What a wild What a Wild Ride?
Speaker 1: And that was you know it's another guy. Yes, wait,
Speaker 1: so did they scare you? Were you scared?
Speaker 4: Thankfully?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: I got really.
Speaker 5: Uh so, my my one of my very best friends,
Speaker 5: Mollie her husband Alan uh was the showrunner for like
Speaker 5: this new rebook and they were coming up.
Speaker 4: This was like one of the last uh.
Speaker 5: She is in a few of them. But this for
Speaker 5: one of like the last pranks they were doing. They
Speaker 5: shot it in in Atlanta. Uh, they were pranking some
Speaker 5: they were doing a tie in with WWE wrestlers and so.
Speaker 4: This some of the big ones.
Speaker 5: This, this guy called Cody Rhodes was pranking this group
Speaker 5: of wrestlers called the New Day And they they go
Speaker 5: in thinking that they're going to be like judges in
Speaker 5: a at the beginning of like an amaz race style show,
Speaker 5: and so they are just there to like give advice
Speaker 5: to the contestants, and one by one they were sending
Speaker 5: us down and they had you know, some actors go
Speaker 5: in and be like normal contestants for the show, and
Speaker 5: then I come out and I'm like freak and then
Speaker 5: like weird supernatural stuff starts happening and eventually scarcely.
Speaker 4: It was very It was very elaborate and there were
Speaker 4: like explosions and stuff. It was very crazy. Wow, what's
Speaker 4: going on? Okay? Wait, well before we I want to
Speaker 4: ask you what else you have going on?
Speaker 2: But I just want to know if you have any
Speaker 2: other like before we likes, I'd like to hear one.
Speaker 4: Yes, that was that? I thought that was really the only.
Speaker 5: The only real interaction I have with him is like
Speaker 5: after he's shot me, when I when I have my
Speaker 5: admission that I bought it off.
Speaker 2: The st.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that you. You taught us all a
Speaker 4: lesson on your way out. That was nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I thought that was so crazy that it
Speaker 1: was like this episode of twenty twelve or eleven and
Speaker 1: they're and like they're trying to make a gun control
Speaker 1: statement and it's like thirteen years later and absolutely nothing
Speaker 1: has changed.
Speaker 4: But you yeah, you also you know that because you
Speaker 4: watch the show.
Speaker 1: You know Stabler has teen daughters, so everything, like it
Speaker 1: must have just been an absolute mind fuck for this
Speaker 1: character to have to like shoot this poor teen girl
Speaker 1: who just lost her mom and everything.
Speaker 5: But yes, tell us the honestly, really, the only interaction
Speaker 5: that I had with him was when we were they
Speaker 5: were before they like poured the blood around me and
Speaker 5: stuff for the shot. We had kind of like a
Speaker 5: brief thing where we were just like I was laying
Speaker 5: on the ground and he was kneeling above me, and
Speaker 5: we had a nice little conversation about my my I
Speaker 5: had a pair of Doc Martins that I had bought
Speaker 5: kind of recently, and he complimented.
Speaker 4: He asked me where I got them? I got I
Speaker 4: got to tell him where I bought my Okay fashion king.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it like as a person who had watched
Speaker 5: every single episode up until that point, it was very
Speaker 5: uh obviously I still remember it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god, it was very important to me
Speaker 4: that he liked my shoes. Amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you're there, you're the positive Pedro Pascal person.
Speaker 4: Now it's cute. I'll come around full circle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, m h.
Speaker 4: Anything you'd like to plug, tell our people to find you,
Speaker 4: any sort.
Speaker 1: Of what's coming up. I saw you had some I
Speaker 1: MDB stuff that's like in coming out.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I have, I've done. I've been very lucky
Speaker 5: to have worked a fair amount this year. There are
Speaker 5: a couple of things that like, like a TV thing.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm loud. I signed a competenid
Speaker 5: and I don't.
Speaker 4: Know if I'm allowed to about an NDA project. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it should be coming out next year.
Speaker 5: I did a movie called Anywhere, like a little independent
Speaker 5: movie that hopefully will go to a festival or come
Speaker 5: out next year at some point.
Speaker 4: Joe and I have been doing our silly videos.
Speaker 5: We've been doing a lot of very cute, silly little
Speaker 5: videos on Instagram.
Speaker 4: I was watching they were so funny. We have a
Speaker 4: lot of fun doing them. And then are you guys
Speaker 4: busy eating kit kats or what?
Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, yeah, try and try and uh weird candies
Speaker 5: and stuff. You know, we're getting into like a prime
Speaker 5: candy season. You know, we just had Halloween, but now
Speaker 5: we're going into Christmas, so there will be a.
Speaker 4: Lot of stuff. I'm sure before you know it. It's easy.
Speaker 4: Keep me pretty busy. Yeah, seasonal candies are coming day.
Speaker 5: We have Scare Tactics is on Peacock and I think
Speaker 5: the I think there are full episodes on YouTube as well.
Speaker 4: All right, cool, I gotta see this wrestling crossover. Yeah,
Speaker 4: in all the world. Very fun.
Speaker 5: But I did get very scared, uh, I Like as
Speaker 5: soon as I got there, I kept asking my friend Molly, like,
Speaker 5: the prank isn't actually on me right, like I have
Speaker 5: several times because I told Joe if he ever plays
Speaker 5: a prank on me, I will break up with like,
Speaker 5: no questions asked, will break up with.
Speaker 4: Oh, you're like anti prank, I get they I can't
Speaker 4: do it. Yeah, I know he knows that he knows
Speaker 4: that if he branks you, it's done. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: This is kind of like you know on TikTok, like
Speaker 2: the cake wedding smash thing like this. You know, boundaries
Speaker 2: follow them.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Wait, speaking of cake, I love the is It Cake
Speaker 1: video that you guys do. I was watching that last
Speaker 1: night and at the end I was really snorting.
Speaker 4: Thank you. But yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Okay, So people can just follow you on Insta and
Speaker 1: hear about the future secret projects and watch your videos
Speaker 1: with joke was all a very talented comedian, your partner.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Thank you. This is great. I mean,
Speaker 4: she was incredible.
Speaker 2: It is fun to have a casual chat with someone
Speaker 2: you know, you know what I mean who remembers every
Speaker 2: single detail and cares about the show and the episode
Speaker 2: and everything as much as you do, but more because
Speaker 2: they experienced it. So really a thrill. But live on
Speaker 2: my phone so you can know when we are recording this.
Speaker 2: But Schwartz and Sandy's is closing.
Speaker 1: No, as I called, literally almost a year from the day,
Speaker 1: like I went there one year ago, like from two
Speaker 1: weeks ago before I went to the Mariah Carey concert
Speaker 1: and I was like, this place is not long for
Speaker 1: this world and it took a year to fizzle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just as Britney's opening a new bar in Weo too. Yeah, truly,
Speaker 2: twenty one minutes go, all these posts just went up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so pretty cool. I mean, you'll you've all known this,
Speaker 2: but it is it is an exclusive in theory.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, wow, wow you heard it here first guys,
Speaker 1: except this comes out in a few days, so you'll
Speaker 1: have already heard it.
Speaker 4: But okay, great talking to Haley so fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love talking to somebody that like loves watching the show,
Speaker 1: like talking to Ricky and people.
Speaker 2: Yeah that she was on set being like, okay, Pedro
Speaker 2: Pescal gets some chill, you lose her, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Relax, act like you've been here. But episode like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's just in the top, like so much
Speaker 1: shit happen.
Speaker 4: She killed. It's like so fucked up.
Speaker 1: She like she kills sister, peg Stabler kills her. She
Speaker 1: does she even get the other guys like does.
Speaker 4: Does she does?
Speaker 2: Because then she really keeps getting him because he goes,
Speaker 2: I should have killed you with your mom, you know.
Speaker 1: So she gets so he does, she does kill him. Okay,
Speaker 1: he finally gets it. I'm like just wondering if any
Speaker 1: and then the other one goes like you crazy bitch,
Speaker 1: like they're all still mean to her. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, why don't you still be nice to the
Speaker 1: person with the gun that's willing to keep shooting, like
Speaker 1: you'd be like you look cute, like save yourself.
Speaker 4: I don't know why you're not like buttering her up.
Speaker 4: It's so weird to keeping mean, uh yeah, yeah, not me.
Speaker 4: I'm not the guy. He's the guy. I don't know,
Speaker 4: like do something else.
Speaker 2: So strange all their decision making, but I guess they're
Speaker 2: just you know, criminals.
Speaker 1: But you can also kind of see I guess why
Speaker 1: Chris Maloney's even though we know behind the scenes that
Speaker 1: it was like a contract thing, but you can see
Speaker 1: why Stabler was maybe like I gotta get out of
Speaker 1: the game. I just killed someone my daughter's age, like, and.
Speaker 2: It is like okay, like obviously su is good, Dick
Speaker 2: Wolf's fine, everyone's fine. The show kept going, but loved
Speaker 2: we meet people that stop watching after Stabler, but it
Speaker 2: is just like, yeah, bosses are stupid, like why would
Speaker 2: you get rid of our guy? But then we wouldn't
Speaker 2: have met Tomorrow and Rollins and all these people like
Speaker 2: and crazy. I understand it all and it all works
Speaker 2: out and they needed him back, but it is just
Speaker 2: like embarrassing when talent is not I don't know, and
Speaker 2: he's he's so good.
Speaker 1: But I'll say this, it kind of shows how strong
Speaker 1: she is Murrisha Harget that she was able to carry
Speaker 1: it for another thirteen fourteen seasons after he left, And
Speaker 1: I don't know that it could have been the say,
Speaker 1: the other way around, Like I don't know if they
Speaker 1: had just hired like another QT to be like stablers
Speaker 1: under like my partner or something, if Mariushka had moved on,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: So that in a way point because her the opportunity
Speaker 4: to flex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this happened to me a long time ago
Speaker 2: business wise, where I had like two people kind of
Speaker 2: split and I think one of was like, oh, everyone's
Speaker 2: gonna go with me, and then nobody did. And then
Speaker 2: now you realize like, oh, actually like this other one.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I don't know, it just it is monumental
Speaker 2: in the lore and it changed everything. But I was
Speaker 2: someone that's like, well, I'm not gonna watch and then
Speaker 2: obviously I did mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no for sure, and I just it's so funny
Speaker 1: that we just like see Jenna Fox when we're at
Speaker 1: parties sometimes and stuff like it's crazy, like I know
Speaker 1: this girl who had such a huge monumental thing like
Speaker 1: Stabler shot or she shot sister peg. But I was
Speaker 1: trying to think, like I don't know, the HTF gun
Speaker 1: walking scandal, like what did we learned from that? I mean,
Speaker 1: just botched jobs from the cops yet again, or the FEDS.
Speaker 4: I guess these are the FEDS, the FEDS.
Speaker 2: But it's also just like everything's about money. It's about
Speaker 2: all these government and business to do is just making
Speaker 2: money and everything sucks, and it's they're all going to
Speaker 2: be in charge of everything from now on, So get
Speaker 2: used to this kind of life. Get used to a
Speaker 2: government agency is not working and fucking you over more
Speaker 2: publicly less secrets.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then this.
Speaker 1: That case with Rachel Timmerman so fucking sad, so sad
Speaker 1: because like she like I don't know, it's so hard
Speaker 1: for women to come forward and like then these kind
Speaker 1: of things, people like why don't you go to the cops.
Speaker 1: It's like, look what happened to this girl. Look what
Speaker 1: happened to this girl? Her rapist killed her and her child,
Speaker 1: Like It's just ough, tough, tough case. But I'm glad
Speaker 1: that he saw justice as so many don't. But he
Speaker 1: was a serial murderer, I mean, definitely responsible also for
Speaker 1: killing so many other people. I think he just thought
Speaker 1: he could just kill everyone involved in this case and
Speaker 1: be done with it. But I don't know what we
Speaker 1: really learned from it, just that there are so many
Speaker 1: monsters out there. I guess Marvin Gabriel as being one
Speaker 1: of them. And then this fucking new Nicole do Frame case,
Speaker 1: which I only touched on like gently. It's like I've
Speaker 1: stood up to people in this like I've never stood
Speaker 1: up to somebody that had a gun or was trying
Speaker 1: to like rob me, But I've like stood up to
Speaker 1: people in the city before and been like, hey, like
Speaker 1: leave this person alone or whatever. And it's just so
Speaker 1: scary to think that, you know, anybody could just whip
Speaker 1: out a gun and fucking kill you. And again, guns
Speaker 1: are the problem, but that could lead us right in
Speaker 1: to our what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 4: Today? Are What would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards
Speaker 1: an organization or an article or a book or a movie,
Speaker 1: a doc something to give you more info about what
Speaker 1: we talked about today, and I wanted to point everybody
Speaker 1: to an organization that we have mentioned before, but I
Speaker 1: think they do amazing work and their mission bears repeating,
Speaker 1: every Town for Gun Safety. Every Town is the largest
Speaker 1: gun violence prevention organization in America. They are a grassroots
Speaker 1: organization that advocates on the government level for gun safety.
Speaker 1: They also support candidates that will govern for gun safety.
Speaker 1: They empower survivors with their Survivor Network. They measure the impact, scale,
Speaker 1: and implications of gun violence and the policies that can
Speaker 1: prevent it. So I think they do amazing work and
Speaker 1: for more info you can go to everytown dot org.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, and next week we'll be doing Parents' Nightmare. Okay,
Speaker 2: sounds like fun Season sixteen, episode twenty two, you know
Speaker 2: Hulu Peacock and again the Christmas ornament or any of
Speaker 2: our merch for the Christmas season, be safe, ACAB have fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you guys, We love you.
Speaker 2: Bye. That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it that's messed uppod at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up
Speaker 2: Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow
Speaker 2: us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Koperski for our theme song, and Carly
Speaker 2: gen Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dut dun