WEBVTT - Help! I work for a micromanager 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.880 My colleagues. We'll stop commenting on everything I get my 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.080 assistants at people and meeting. Why does my coworker keep 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.240 taking credit for all my ideas? Have any wisdom for me? Hi, 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.720 I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager podcast, where 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.520 I answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.640 from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.800 perfume to what to do if you drink too much 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.760 at the company party. Let's get started today. We are 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.080 going to talk about micro managers. When you look at 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.400 all the different categories of bad management, micromanagement, a boss 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.080 who hovers and is just way too involved in your 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.400 work is one of the most common categories. And what's more, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.680 a lot of bosses who micromanage do this confusing thing 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.040 where sometimes they're really really hands off, and then suddenly 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.200 they swoop in and they're really hands on. And that 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.280 is the situation that today's color is in. Hi, and 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.640 welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.200 So you sent me a letter saying you've been at 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.920 your job a little less than a year and overall 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.160 you really like it, but there is a problem. Your 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.760 boss is a very respected person in your field, but 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.640 you're only the second person he's ever managed, and it 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.399 kind of shows. Sometimes you will go long stretches with 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.040 no interaction with him, but when he is stressed about 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.400 a big project or something important, he micro manages you 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.160 big time, and he does it in a way that 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.720 makes you feel like he thinks you're not competent. You 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.880 wrote in your letter to me that he'll explain your 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:36.839 own work back to you, even when you've been spending 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.600 days working on it. And on a recent project, he 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.679 was checking in on your progress literally every fifteen to 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.960 thirty minutes, doing this thing where he was finding mistakes 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.600 in real time and correcting them before you had even 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.480 had a chance to look over your work. And those 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.880 were cases where you would have found those mistakes yourself 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.960 if he had just stepped back and given you some room. 0:01:58.000 --> 0:01:59.680 And you wrote that it's gotten so bad that it 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.640 aims you have been ending the day crying. Am I 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.760 getting all that right? Yeah? That's it was very specific 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.120 to that project that I was working on, but I 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.320 started to get the impression that this is a trend 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.440 that I should begin addressing. Yeah, And I also want 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:16.799 to note that you said that you know you're a 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.160 good employee, and he actually poached you from your old 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.799 job to come work for him, so you know that 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:23.839 he likes your work. It's not a case where he's 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.359 covering because your work is bad. Right. I think that's 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.520 an accurate description, And I would even go as far 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:31.359 to say as like we are friends. And that's one 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.160 of the reasons that I'm so adamant about trying to 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.720 figure out how to address this properly, is because I 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:39.840 like the way that we work together, and I think 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.680 we have a really good working relationship and I don't 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:47.720 want to damage that by saying the wrong things or 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.000 critiquing the way that he manages me. Tell me more 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.480 about that. What is your relationship like with him? So 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.760 we professionally have like known of each other for some time. 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.600 We work in a some small industry, so everyone kind 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.120 of knows each other, so to speak. And I've always 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.520 had a lot of respect for him, And have you 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.959 know when I was looking to move jobs, his was 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.800 a name that I knew and was honestly very flattered 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.040 when I got the email because I was I was 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.280 shocked that I did not expect expect him to know 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.560 who I was. I'm a junior level staffer and he's 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.239 more of a senior level management person in our field, 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.079 and we have we work very well together. Um our 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:35.120 current situation is, uh, we are remote, so he isn't 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.320 always in the office with me at the same times, 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.360 and so I think that also plays a role in 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.360 that hands off aspect where I will go a very 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.480 long time without talking to him. But because it's when 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.640 he's actually in the office that the micro managing picks up. 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.520 And how comfortable do you feel with him? It sounds 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.840 like you have a pretty good rapport. Yeah, very comfortable. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.720 We talk about, you know, very personal things he you know, 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.560 recently his mom passed away, and that's definitely become a 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.880 consideration for me as I think about how to have 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:13.480 a conversation with him about this micromanagement style that he has, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.039 because I he is such an empathetic boss in terms 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.320 of things that I've experienced personally, and then I've tried 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.240 very hard to be him be there for him in 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.640 this time and so you know, we share personal effects 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.919 with each other because I think he just wants to 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.680 foster that kind of open relationship with the people that 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.640 he works with, both a co workers and people he manages. Yeah, 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.240 I think his mom dying definitely changes the calculation and 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.159 when you might address it with him that while that 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.159 is still really fresh, let's not give him another thing 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.080 that's stressful to put on his plate. But I do 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.040 think a couple of months down the road, it's definitely 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.440 something that you can bring up that you do want 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.839 to be sensitive to that timing, of course. Okay, I 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.279 want to talk about micro management generally, and then I 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.279 want to get into some specific advice on what you 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.520 might do here. So I think the first thing to 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.120 talk about is what micro management means, because people use 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.440 it to describe a whole bunch of different things. It 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:19.240 is not just being involved in your work, because good 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.240 managers do stay involved in things like getting aligned on 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.560 what outcomes you're going for, and checking in on progress 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.479 as work is progressing, and giving feedback and sometimes course 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.200 correcting when it's needed. That's all good managers should be 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.320 doing that stuff. Micro management, though, is when a manager 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.920 is dictating exactly how to do the work, watching over 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.960 every step in the process, refusing to delegate any real 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.720 decision making, and constantly well I should say and or 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.400 and or constantly checking up on work that you have 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.120 shown in the past that you can do well. And 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.960 micro managers will often manage really low importance projects the 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.440 same way that they will manage high importance projects. They 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.440 don't always differentiate in their approach based on what's actually needed. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.919 And I think there are a few reasons why people 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.960 micro manage. The big one, and I think it is 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.560 true of every micro manager, is that they genuinely do 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.360 not know a better way. They don't actually know how 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:27.080 to manage when they've delegated work, but they're responsible for 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.880 ensuring that it's done and that it's done well, and 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.720 so they swoop in with this terrible style because they 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.680 don't have different tools and this is the only way 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.720 they can think of to make sure that things get 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.520 done well. I do that there can be more to 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:42.960 it too. I mean, of course, for a lot of 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.200 micro managers, it's rooted in control. You know, they don't 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:50.640 trust their staff to do good work without constant supervision. Again, though, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.520 that's not knowing how to manage, because if you're managing effectively, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.520 that's not really something you need to worry about, because 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.360 you do have systems for making sure that everyone is 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.560 aligned about the work at the outset. You have set 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.880 checkpoints along the way where you check in on progress 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.360 so there won't be any surprises. But again, micro managers 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.640 don't know how to do that. Now, sometimes people complain 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.320 that they're being micromanaged, when what is really happening is 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.360 that they've given their boss good cause to doubt the 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.800 reliability of their work. That does not sound like the 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.680 case here. I'm just covering this for the sake of 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.320 being being thorough. I don't think this what's happening with you. 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.440 But sometimes a manager will start managing more closely because 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.080 the person has shown that they need it, And then 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.040 you get people complaining about being micro managed when really 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:40.040 their manager is managing appropriately for the situation. So in general, 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.880 if someone is feeling micromanaged, it's always good to do 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.000 a gut check, you know, ask yourself, is there anything 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.080 I've done that could be leading to this, Like have 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.920 I been missing deadlines or letting things fall through the cracks, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.120 or you know, not incorporating my boss's feedback into my 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.360 work that kind of thing. And actually, let me pause 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.120 here and ask I don't and I'll get this, get 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:02.960 the sense of that is the situation. But let's make 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.840 sure does that stuff sound like what could be happening here? No, 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.000 I don't get that impression either, And I ask a 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.360 lot of questions in my that's my work style. I 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.520 just I ask a lot of questions. And I think 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.160 the problem, one of the big problems that I have noticed, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:24.360 is sometimes he misinterprets questions as ignorance. And oftentimes it's 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.600 a fact finding mission for me, not a let's explain 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.319 to her or the A B c's of this process. Uh, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.880 And that's what I meant by explaining my own work 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.560 back to me. It's oftentimes I'll have spent days on 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.520 a project and he knows that I've spent days on 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.120 this project, and I'll ask just a clarifying question and 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.520 find that his response involves all a lot of the 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.200 work that I've already done, and if he just, you know, 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.160 had had had read that or seen that, he just 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.120 jumps to the conclusion that I don't know what I'm 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.120 doing at times. And I don't think that's because is 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.360 he doesn't think I know what I'm doing. It's because 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.800 he's been the leading expert in this field for so long, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.880 and I don't think he thinks anyone knows what they're doing. Yeah, 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.720 I don't think it's a personal thing. Sometimes not always. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.080 Sometimes with that dynamic, you can kind of head it 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.760 off by saying to yourself, Okay, I know that he 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.000 has this tendency. If I just ask the question with 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.880 no caveat and no prelude, I'm going to get this 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.719 whole long explanation that I don't need. And so I'm 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.480 gonna preface it with I have X, Y, and Z 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.920 totally covered and I'm fine there, but I have a 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.600 question for you about this one piece of it, and 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.240 then ask your question so that you're sort of framing 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.960 it for him in a very explicit way. Do you 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.920 think something like that could help I do. I think 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.840 that's I think about that a lot in terms of 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.600 conversations going forward. But it's almost hard in the slack 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:55.040 I am generation, where like oftentimes I'm asking what I 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.800 think is a thirty second question, but the nature of 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.000 how we just shoot off quick questions over instant messaging, 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.760 it's sometimes when I think is a thirty second question, 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.880 he thinks it's. It's almost a generational thing. I'm not 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.120 sure if that makes any sense, but I'm like, this 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.280 is a this five second this five word question will 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.240 be answered in no time, but he wants to write 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.920 a small paragraph about it. Yes, So I mean it 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.080 might be that you just do an experiment here and 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.680 try the framing that I'm talking about a couple of 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.720 times and see it, like, be very deliberate about making 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.800 yourself to it, even when you are thinking, this is 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.400 just a quick question, and see what happens, see if 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.760 it works. Because if it does work, great, Now you 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:35.880 know that that you just have to be really really 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.640 explicit about what you do and don't need um. But 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.280 it could be an interesting experiment to try. Yeah, I've 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.280 never thought about doing it that way. I never give 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.280 set up because I you know, he gives me projects 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:50.760 to work on, so I assume he knows what I'm 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.079 working on. So sometimes I kind of just jump into 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:54.719 the meat of it without taking a step back to 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.600 be like, if I don't provide some context, I'm going 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.680 to get that paragraph explanation I'm dreading. Yeah, and you know, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:02.920 it could also be like, yeah, he knows what you're 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.120 working on, Cassie assigned it to you, but it might 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:06.920 not be at the top of his mind at that 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.439 very moment, you know, especially if you're doing it over 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.920 I am or something. He's absorbed in something else. You're 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.160 asking him this question. He's not necessarily pausing to think, Oh, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.840 of course, she's been like deep in the stuff for 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.679 the last few days. I don't need to give her 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.000 this background. He might not even be making that connection 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.880 in his head. Yeah, I never I never thought about 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.480 it that way. That's a great point. I mean, I 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:27.720 could be wrong, and you could try this and it 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.480 might not work, but I think it's worth trying and 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.719 seeing what happens. Let's do a short break here, and 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.440 then I want to come back and talk about micro 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.880 management some more and then get into what to do 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:49.400 from here. Another thing I wanted to note about micro 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.600 managers is that in general, this pattern that you are 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.960 seeing with your boss, where he switches from really hands 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.760 off to way too hands on, is really common. And 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.400 what tends to happen is that a manager starts off 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.319 pretty hands off, give someone a lot of leeway to 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.679 run with a project, and then maybe it doesn't go 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.000 according to plan because the manager didn't set clear enough 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.240 expectations at the start, So then they vow that they're 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.040 going to be involved much more closely next time. I 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.560 don't know that that's what's happening here for you. It 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.520 sounds like it could be like there's a little bit 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.840 of out of sight, out of mind going on when 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.000 he's not in the office, and it sounds like maybe 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.600 when something is a stressor to him, if he gets 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.880 more involved, then so I think that is maybe not 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.520 the explanation in your situation, but it is a really 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.120 common one. Yeah, I do think that is partially the situation, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.240 especially for my example that I had given him my 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:47.080 initial um letter to you because we were working under 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.800 a really tight deadline. So he had given me a 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.680 project that with a forty eight hour deadline. But when 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.520 I started working on it, I realized pretty quickly, no, 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:58.840 this is forty eight hours worth of work, but he 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.640 needs me to get done in forty eight hours, So 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.439 you know, I pulled close to all nighters, and then 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.600 on the second on the third day when it was due, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.800 he became very stressed that it wasn't done. But the 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.040 reality was I didn't feel like I was given enough 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.960 time to begin with to do the project. And so 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.000 then suddenly he started stepping in all the time being like, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:20.440 do you have this, do you have this? Do you 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.560 have this on repeat every fifteen to thirty minutes, which 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.600 are valid questions, but I don't know if they would 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.839 have been the case if he had said a realistic timeline. Ah, yep, 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.200 so it normally I don't feel like what you're describing 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.240 as the case, but I have seen that and I 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:35.920 think it can be a little bit of both from 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.839 my situation. Yeah, so it might be that there are 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.240 things that you can do in your end to head 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.280 some of this off at the start, Like so if 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.400 we could go back in time, which sadly we cannot 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.480 too when he was first giving you that project, if 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.800 you knew at the start this is a really tight deadline, 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.959 and it sounds like you did know that you might 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.440 do some expectations setting with him, and maybe you did, 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.200 but if you didn't, it could be useful to say. So, 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:02.320 I want to let you know, I think this is 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.480 a really tight deadline. Um, I can put in a 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.280 lot of extra hours and try to make it work, 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:08.679 but it does mean that it's going to be kind 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.440 of a rush, and then you might spell out for 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.800 him what that means, like if you think about the 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.400 sorts of things that he was concerned with on the 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.760 last day. If you're able to kind of prep him 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.040 for that being the case ahead of time, it might 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:25.120 help manage his expectations. Yeah. I try really hard to 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.480 do stuff like that, but it work. Creep is such 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.880 a problem. Yeah, the projects looked like a two day 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.280 project until I actually got into the weeds and realized 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.040 that the actual expectations of each of the components were 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:40.880 going to take so much time. But you're right, I 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.080 did figure that out probably within the first two to 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:44.920 three hours of work, and I should have taken a 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.200 step back and said something, but I am such a 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.960 I consider myself a very deadline driven person and really 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:55.200 want to make them and so it was respond appropriately. 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.000 I have that same problem too. I completely understand what 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.440 you're saying. There is benefit to it, so I think, like, again, 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.680 you might just try experimenting with it if you're in 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.440 a similar situation in the future, and just see if 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.360 it does make it better, because if it does, that's 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.400 going to kind of reinforce in your head, like, oh, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.640 I should speak up about this again when it happens. Now. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.680 Big picture, I mean, we can talk about these strategies 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.520 forgetting it, small pieces of those, but big picture, I 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.280 think at some point you do want to try talking 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.160 to your boss about this style that he gets. Sometimes, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.880 before I get into how you might do that, have 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.080 you tried doing that yet at all? Not really, And 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.760 I think a lot of it is because we have 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.040 such a good working relationship that I'm afraid to speak up. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.680 I'm afraid that I'm going to ruin our relationship or 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.200 by even And I don't know. This has nothing to 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.120 do with micro managing specifically. It just has to do 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:53.760 with like employee boss relationships, Like I'm always nervous to 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.160 critique my boss because I think there are a lot 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.080 of bosses out there that will take it poorly. Yeah, 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.760 and I've had experience and some previous jobs we're speaking 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.040 up had had an impact on my work there and 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.000 my time there. Frankly, I don't think that's this is 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.920 the case. I think that we he wants me to 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.600 stay and has no interest in finding a way to 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.280 get me fired, especially because he's the one that brought 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.840 me over. But I'm still nervous about bringing it up, 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:20.800 and I don't know how to not be nervous. I 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.320 think you will be nervous. I think I don't wait 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.480 until you can find a way to not be nervous 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.160 as a sign that like a ha, now it's the 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.360 time for me to speak up, because he will probably 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.320 always be nervous. It is an inherently nerve wracking thing 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.120 to do, especially the first time you're doing it with 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.360 a particular manager, because you haven't seen yet firsthand how 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.880 they react to that kind of thing. So I would say, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:45.520 you're probably going to be nervous. Don't let that be 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.560 a reason to not do it. I absolutely hear you 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.080 on some boss is reacting really badly to people bringing 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.920 up issues in their working relationships. You've got to know 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:56.720 your boss. I mean, if you look at him and 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.320 you think, okay, he's always been pretty reasonable with me, like, yes, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.880 we have some differences, but in general he is like 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:08.160 a rational person who doesn't shoot the messenger, who doesn't 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.439 get really defensive when he hears something that he doesn't like. 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.240 Those are signs that you can probably have the conversation. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.080 If you were telling me, oh, no, actually he's super 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.359 defensive and kind of a mean guy, then then I 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.080 would not be recommending the conversation that I'm about to have. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.040 But it sounds like you respect him and you have 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.119 pretty good rapport. Yeah, I think that's that is. I 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.240 don't think I know that is an accurate characterization. Okay, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.879 So I'm going to tell you how I would say it. 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.000 And this isn't going to be precisely right because I 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:37.600 don't have the details, but I'm going to give you 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.160 kind of generally how I would frame it. I would 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.119 sit down with him and say something like I was 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.840 hoping we could talk about something I've noticed about how 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.240 we're working together. A lot of the time, you give 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.639 me a lot of autonomy, which I really appreciate, but 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.240 I have noticed that on some projects you'll manage my 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.879 work so closely that it can be hard for me 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.000 to even complete my portion of it. For example, on 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.160 the X project recently, you are checking into my work 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.120 so frequently that you were finding mistakes in real time 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.480 before I had had a chance to review it. And 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.000 that meant that you thought I was making mistakes that 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.919 would never have been in the finished work that I 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.359 turned into you, except that you kept coming back to 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.000 look at it while it was still in progress. And 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.680 it was pretty demoralizing because I wasn't having a chance 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.240 to perfect it before you saw it. And then I 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.360 know I'm harping on at one example that you gave 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.520 me because I was so I was so egregious. So 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.160 maybe give another example or two here of times when 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:34.040 it has happened, and then say, when that happens, it 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.800 makes me feel like you don't think I'm competent. And 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:38.800 I do think that I have a track record of 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.760 good performance and attention to detail and asking questions when 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.040 I need to, and so it can be tough to 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.800 be managed in a way that makes me feel like 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.000 you don't see me as capable. And I want to 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.720 be clear that I absolutely welcome guidance and feedback, but 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.760 I wonder if there is a way to structure how 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.000 that happens so that I'm still trusted to get my 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.440 work done without that kind of really close over say, 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.080 or is there a reason that you don't feel like 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.719 you can trust me without such a close oversight? And 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.639 then see what he says, but at some point in 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.560 the conversation, you're going to need to propose, well, actually, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.520 let me pause there before I go into this next piece. 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.160 Deep does that feel like something you could imagine saying 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.480 it does? And I don't think he would react negatively 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.760 to the feedback like that uh. In fact, I can 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.080 already kind of sense that he will say something along 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.639 the lines of improving our communications in general, and I 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.399 think some of that is so tough by having a 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.280 boss that's remote currently and then sometimes in the office, 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.840 like the dynamics of how we communicate inherently shift. Uh. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.600 And it's hard to find a standardization around that. But 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.800 I think that would be a very reasonable way for 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.480 me to approach it with him, and I don't think 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.320 that he would react negatively to that. And I think 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.280 I really think it's a stress like he tries to 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.640 carry the weight of the world on his shoulders, which 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.720 is very admirable, but I sometimes don't oh as an employee, 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.600 like I want to help I want to help him 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.359 be not as stressed, But if he's projecting that stress 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:13.920