1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: When they're dealing with something big at school, when their 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: friends stopped talking to them. In their mind, this is 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: the biggest issue in the world, and when that happens, 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: children can do very rash things. You hear about these 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: tragic stories of young children doing very serious things to 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: themselves or other people because they lacked the perspective to 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: understand how to deal with that. This is the Reformed 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: this is Nick Bonacoor from the Reformed Sports Podcast. Today, 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Shawn Jensen, former NFL reporter and author 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: of the children's book series Middle School Rules, a fellow 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: youth sports advocate, sought after speaker and host of the 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: podcast Winning Is Not Everything. Sean and I discussed the 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: value of teaching children to overcome adversity by learning from others, 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: the importance of redefining what success looks like for young athletes, 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: and why he characterizes winning as becoming a better person. 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: Back in the saddle New Year came across this gentleman's 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: work online social media really really excited to dig in 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: with him. Here. He is the author of the children's 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: book series The Middle School Rules. He is also the 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: host of the Winning Is Not Everything podcast. Man, I'm 23 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: super pumped to have him. Sean Jensen, Sean, thanks so 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: much for hopping on, brother Nick. I am so excited 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,279 Speaker 1: to join you. Likewise, I was a fan of yours, 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: and so when you reached out, it was like an 27 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: automatic yes. And so, uh, you know, I feel like 28 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: we're sort of you know, fish swimming upstream and the 29 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: madness that is youth sports. But I know that you 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: and I have many of the same values and beliefs, 31 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: which I think is really you know, cool, and me too, Man, 32 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: I appreciate him, humbled that you'd say that and just 33 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: take us through it. A lot of you know out 34 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: there who are listen, I'm sure you're familiar with the 35 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: series The Middle School Rules. What spawned that? You know, 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: take us through it? And how you got there? Well, 37 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I love talking about it, but it's it's 38 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: funny because I haven't been asked that question in a while. 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: The first book with Brian Urlcker came out in two 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen, but you know, the idea really started 41 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: and was inspired by my son Elijah, who is now 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: fifteen years old. But when he was a little guy, 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: he loved sports. Um would watch it with me all 44 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: the time. We'd go to a lot of games together. 45 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: And UM, what I noticed is for him, when he 46 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: was a young guy, like, you know, just starting to 47 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: read on his own a little bit, Um, I just 48 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: didn't feel like there were very good quality books about 49 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: athletes four kids his age and so, you know, and 50 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: not to offend folks, but for the younger readers or 51 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: kids that are being read to, you know, when they're 52 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: four year years old or something like that, the sports 53 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: offerings are are pretty awful. You know. They're they're written 54 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: by you know, basically curators who are taking information from 55 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: In my previous life, I was a sports reporter. I 56 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: covered the NFL. I did a for major newspapers and websites. 57 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: And what I found is I felt like curators for 58 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: these books for little kids would basically steal my stories 59 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: and then put them in the book and hey, kids, 60 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: this is a story about Lebron James, this is about 61 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, this is about you know, Brian or Locker, 62 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: who was one of the athletes that I featured in 63 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: my book series, and so I said, well, you know, 64 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: why isn't there higher quality books for young readers about 65 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: athletes that they look up to? And so then I said, well, 66 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: if I did that, what would I want to create 67 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: for life? And so I felt like one of the 68 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: things that I was passionate about as a sportswriter was 69 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: really doing like these deep dive profiles and athletes, and 70 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: I would go spend time with them as often as 71 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: I could, to go to their hometowns, to go to 72 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: their homes with them and really get to know them 73 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: beyond the locker room or the field. And so I 74 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: really took that concept because I think sometimes when you 75 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: see an athlete outside of where they compete and where 76 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: they because you really get to see a different side 77 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: of them. And and so that's what I wanted to do. 78 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: And so, but here's the thing. Oftentimes, when we think 79 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: about Lebron James, for instance, we know him when he 80 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: was known to the world right, We know him when 81 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: he was on the cover of Sports illustry, We know 82 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: him when we see him on ESPN all the time. 83 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: We know him because he's you know, featured in a 84 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: movie like Space Jam two. But who was Lebron James 85 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: before that name really meant anything to anyone outside of 86 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: his family or even his community. And I found that 87 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: if I could focus in on that time period when 88 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: these athletes were just developing, when they were unknown, when 89 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 1: they were just having big dreams like so many kids 90 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: do today, that if I could focus in on that 91 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: time frame, that could really maybe provide connections for kids 92 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: to realize, like, wow, I can relate to that. So, 93 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: for instance, Charles Tillman's parents got divorced when he was 94 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: in high school, and it was devastating to him. It 95 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 1: affected him on the field, it affect it in school, 96 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: but he was able to sort of regroup based on 97 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: those coaches and the teachers and the family members who 98 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: invested and encouraged him, and then he was able to 99 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: turn it around have a brilliant senior year both in 100 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: the classroom and off the field, and he was able 101 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: to land one scholarship that he parlayed into an excellent 102 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: college career that parlayed into a second round draft pick 103 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: at the Chicago Bears, into a career that some belief 104 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: is right on the fringe of being Hall of fame, 105 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: you know. And so if a kid is out there 106 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: and they're struggling, their parents are going through a divorce, 107 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: and they can read about Charles's story and see that 108 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: it was really hard for him and maybe see that, hey, 109 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: things kind of went bad, but then he was able 110 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: to turn it around. And then they can say, hey, 111 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: maybe that's something I can do too, you know. And 112 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: so there's just a lot of different topics I've I've 113 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: got my seventh book in the series coming out in 114 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: a couple of months. I haven't announced it yet, but 115 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: what I've sound is that with the other six athletes, 116 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: they all have different stories, they all have different challenges, 117 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: they all have different lessons, which is why it's called 118 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: middle School Rules. And I feel like the more of 119 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: these books I'm able to share, the more the kids 120 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: can connect and say, hey, I experienced that. You know. 121 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: One of my favorite books was with Jamal Charles, you know, 122 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: who's that standout running back at the University of Texas. 123 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: Then with the kids, but how about this Nick When 124 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: he was an elementary schooler, they couldn't diagnose what was 125 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: a challenge for him in school, and finally he he 126 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: was he had so severe learning challenges that he participated 127 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: in the special Olympics. I think about that that participated 128 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: in the Special Olympics. But here's the thing a lot 129 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: of people may hear then say, oh, I feel sorry 130 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: for Jamal Charles. You want to know what, when you 131 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: read the Middle School Rules for Jamal Charles, you realize 132 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 1: that that was one of the greatest moments in days 133 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: in his life because he had so many challenges. People 134 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: made fun of him because he couldn't read well. People 135 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: made fun of him because they thought he was slow. 136 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: And when he went out to the Special Olympics and 137 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: won some races and got first place ribbons, it gave 138 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: him a confidence and a quote unquote victory. That was 139 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: something that he needed at that time. And guess what. 140 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: Fast forward another year and then they finally diagnosed what 141 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: his learning disability was, and then they were able to 142 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: work with him, and then they were able to help 143 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: him learn in a way that works for Jamal Charles. 144 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: And as you read through the book, you realize that 145 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: that's not the happy ending. He still had to struggle 146 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: and work. And he was such a gifted athlete that 147 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: he received a scholarship to the University of Texas full 148 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: athletic scholarship. Like during his sophomore year. But here's the catch. 149 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: He had to get the right SAT score to get 150 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: that scholarship, and so he ended up taking the s 151 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: at like five times before he got the score that 152 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: he needed, you know. And so I feel like for 153 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: the young people out there who maybe you know, reading 154 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: or math or whatever it is doesn't come easily to them, 155 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: when they read his story and see all the challenges 156 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: and adversity that he faced, that that can give them hope. 157 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: You know, I'm listening to your You're taking back to 158 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: when I was a little kid and I did not 159 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: like school, you know, I just didn't like and I 160 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: certainly didn't like reading. But if I was handed a 161 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: book that I actually took an active interest in, you'd 162 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: be surprised because that has happened and did happen in 163 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: my youth. I was given a book, And so I mean, 164 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: I feel like it's finding your lane, right, I mean, 165 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: finding the right content, because I truly believe anything that 166 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: you read opens up and unlocks this ability to comprehend. 167 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: So and I think that's what we talked about a 168 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: lot with with youth sports, is helping kids find their path? 169 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: Are you finding through your your relationships with these athletes 170 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: that you speak to like that they all had similar 171 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: paths in some ways. Like you mentioned adversity a few times, 172 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: and struggle is that something that you've seen that's kind 173 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: of been across each path it is and every athlete 174 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: that I have had the privilege to work with, Because 175 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: here's the thing, Nick, it would be so much easier 176 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: for me, just like these other folks, to curate a 177 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: book and say, hey, you know what, I'm gonna do 178 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: a book about Tom Brady and do a bunch of 179 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: research and maybe talk to even a few of his 180 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: relatives or coaches and say, hey, this is the defining 181 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: childhood story of Tom Brady. But I felt as I 182 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: wrestled with that, I felt I needed the athletes cooperation 183 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: because who can really truly know what your lifetime challenges 184 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: and struggles and things are except the athlete. Nobody can 185 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: know that but the person themselves. And so you know, 186 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: maybe that's why I haven't been able to land you know, 187 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: the Lionel Messies or the Steph Curries, or you know 188 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 1: those those household name athletes. I haven't been able to 189 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: land that athlete yet because I want their cooperation because 190 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: I think it's critical I can't in good faith tell 191 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: these young people these are the defining stories, the defining 192 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: lessons of these people without their cooperation. And I don't 193 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: mean even just the little bit just to talk to 194 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: them for two hours. I need, you know, to spend 195 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: the day and a half with those folks, To go 196 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: to their hometown, to have them walk me to their 197 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: favorite basketball court they grew up playing on, to meet 198 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: their childhood friends. You know, I end up doing fifty 199 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: plus interviews for every single book, you know, And and 200 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: so I just think it's it's so important to have that. 201 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: And so, yes, all these athletes have challenges, and you 202 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: and I. One of the things I love to tell 203 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: parents is you know who who come to me with 204 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: their frustration, So oh, my kid doesn't understand how lucky 205 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: they are my kids, you know, dealing with this and 206 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: it's not the big deal and blah blah blah. And 207 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: what what I think a lot of adults fail to 208 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: do is understand this one truth. Children cannot have perspective. Right. 209 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: You and I have been on this earth for decades. 210 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: We've experienced the highs and lows that are inevitable with life. 211 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: But our children have not, Right, how can they have 212 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: the benefit of perspective. So when when you're a kid 213 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: who's had a fairly you know you you have the essentials, right, 214 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: You've had a roof over your head, you had food 215 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: on the table, you've had a home, You've got a 216 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: parent or two parents who love and care for you. 217 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: If you have those things and life has been relatively smooth, 218 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, somebody at school starts bullying 219 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: you for no reason, and this is the first real 220 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: challenge you've had. How do you know to deal with that? 221 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: You know, when I go speak at schools, I've talked 222 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: to kids who I know their parents live in million 223 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: dollar houses. You know what I'm saying. And guess what, 224 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: when they're dealing with something big at school, when their 225 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: friends stopped talking to them, they don't care what kind 226 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: of car their parents drive. In their mind, this is 227 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: the biggest issue in the world. And when that happens, 228 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: children can do very rash things that for us people 229 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: who've dealt with how could they react that way? You 230 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: hear about these tragic stories of young children doing very 231 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: very serious things to themselves or to other people, and 232 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: in many ways it's because they lacked the perspective to 233 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: understand how to deal with that because they haven't dealt 234 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: with much adversity in their life. Such a critical point 235 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: because my wife and I talked about that a lot. 236 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: And that is when you're thirty five years old and 237 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: you look back and think of high school and who cares? 238 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: You know, you're not gonna care about that when you're 239 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: in that moment, though, that is such. It could be 240 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: men high school. Those were some tough years. They're also 241 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: great years. That's universal. It does not matter who you are. 242 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: There is something that I used to I used to 243 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: before I really started talking to hundreds and hundreds of kids. 244 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: I used to think, like, you know, Peton Manning, One 245 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: could Peyton Manning have dealt with when he was in 246 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: middle school? His dad was an NFL player, his family 247 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: was rich, they could do whatever. He had this, you know, 248 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: seemingly perfect life. He went to a great high school, 249 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: he went to the University of Tennessee, you know, went 250 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: on to have a Hall of Fame career in the NFL. 251 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: What could Peton Manning? But you don't what. As I've 252 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: grown and as I've talked to more kids, I know something. 253 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: There was something in middle school that was a huge 254 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: issue for Peyton Manning. Do you know what I'm saying? 255 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: Whether it was how he looked, or maybe people resented 256 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: the fact that his father was a pro player. Maybe 257 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: he thought his younger brother was more talented than than him. Right, 258 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: we don't know, but I'm certain that there was something 259 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: in middle school Peyton Manny's mind. There was some kind 260 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: of challenge that was really difficult for him to deal with. 261 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: What we returned, Sean and I discussed how he defined 262 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: success and winning because it relates to youth sports. Welcome 263 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: back where we left off. Sean and I were about 264 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: to talk about how parents can help their kids develop 265 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: and cultivate their own passions. So how do you think 266 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: when you look at I know, in sports a big 267 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: part of your life. You've been covenant, you're writing the books, 268 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: You've got the podcast, like talk about your podcast? What 269 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: about the name whenning is not because let's face it, 270 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: that is not the culture of youth sports today. For 271 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: crying out loud, if your team's not winning, your parents 272 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: are pulling you off one team going to another win today. 273 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: You gotta win, gotta win. Why is your podcast named that? 274 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: And what are some posen and cons that you see 275 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: in youth sports today. Yeah, I think that one of 276 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: the things that first of all, the podcast name, I 277 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: put a lot of thought into that. And I mean 278 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: I used to cover the Green Bay Packers and one 279 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: of the most famous coaches in the NFL. I mean, goodness, 280 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: the championship trophies named after Vince Lombardi. But he said 281 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: winning is everything. You know what I'm saying, Like, that's 282 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: all that mattered. And I really think that part of 283 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: what we're having a problem with. And and I don't 284 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: know where you grew up, but I grew up My 285 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: father was in the Air Force, and so I grew 286 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: up a military basis, and sports were pretty cheap, if 287 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: not free, and you didn't have a choice on where 288 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: you played. You just played with the other kids your 289 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: age on the base and if there were a hundred 290 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: and fifty kids, they would make that many teams. The 291 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: uniforms were horrible. It was just a complete crapshoot. But 292 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: the beauty of it is is that sports were not 293 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: played when I was in middle school, in high school, 294 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: wasn't played to win a scholarship. You played sports because 295 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: it was cheap, it was fun, it was something to do, 296 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying it, you know, and you 297 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: needed that outlet, and so you really just played to 298 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: compete with your friends. You played because you love that sport, 299 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: and you played to pass some time, you know. And 300 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: I feel like now we've just we've you know, sort 301 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: of uh, we've made a business of youth sports and 302 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: everything becomes about winning. And I feel like most coaches 303 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: and programs and administrators, they're all competing for the top, 304 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, ten percent of athletes, and what's left in 305 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: the dust is me. I was not a kid who 306 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: was going to be a Division one athlete in any way. 307 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: There was no way I would do that. But I 308 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: love sports, and through sports, I learned so much about life. 309 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: I learned so many important lessons about winning, about losing, 310 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: about consistency, about character development, about being coachable. Right. I 311 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: learned all those things that helped me to be a 312 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: better person. And my hope, my dream, just like it 313 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: is yours, is that we can return to those kind 314 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: of things to redefine what success is. What is success 315 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: for these young athletes, Let's erase the idea that they 316 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: need to play sports to win the trophy. They need 317 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: to play sports to get a scholarship, they need to 318 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: play the sports, you know, to be on this particular team. No, 319 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: let's make it more, you know, universal, Let's make it 320 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: better so that everybody can win. And when is not 321 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: the victory at the end of the day, but win 322 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: means becoming a better person. The message that I have 323 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: for parents is you're a steward of your child. Help 324 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: them and expose them to so many different things and 325 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: they will point you, would show you what they're passionate about, right, 326 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: And when they gravitate towards that thing that they're willing 327 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: to do, when you don't have to tell them to 328 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: do it, they go off and do that on their 329 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: own and their free time they're playing with legos and 330 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: their free time they're playing soccer. One of my friends 331 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: their daughter loves to cook, right, Yeah, she loves to cook. 332 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: And I'm like, what can you do to encourage your 333 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: daughter's passion for cooking? Right? Just give them an opportunity 334 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: to sort of see all that's possible with that. And 335 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: I had on my podcast a motivational speakers names J. D. Martinez, 336 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: and he's just he's incredible. He's very very well known 337 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: and you know, j D talked about, Hey, what of 338 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: my daughters took a passion and softball. So guess what, 339 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about softball, but I started to 340 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: look up everything, and I became an expert in softball, 341 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: and now I'm coaching softball. And I just think that's 342 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: such a great example. Right, Let's give our kids the 343 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to try a lot of things, see what they're 344 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: interested in, and then we take ownership and interest in 345 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: that not because we like it, but because our children do. 346 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: And then how do we utilize that passion for them 347 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: to practice and to develop the character values that are 348 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: going to help them in life. You know you brought 349 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: up the board perspective before, Well you just hit the 350 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: nail that when you said, you know, us adults, we 351 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: do have perspective. So so how about we take a 352 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: step back when we're at our kids sporting events and 353 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: have the perspective of, hey, this isn't me. My value 354 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: as a human as a parent is not tied to 355 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: my kids performance. And it takes a little bit of 356 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: like removing my ego and they feel that pressure. Those 357 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: kids feel that pressure, and that is so critical I 358 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: think for us to keep hammering on is like, have 359 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: the perspective and recognition of knowing that we can't live 360 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: through our kids. Yeah, it's it's such a great point, Nick, 361 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: And do you think about that old phrase keeping up 362 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: with the Jones is right? And and the idea that 363 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: we are constantly in competition and comparing ourselves and our 364 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: family and our children to other people, right, And we'll 365 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: do whatever it takes, with within or outside of our 366 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: means to make that possible. Right. And here's the thing. 367 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: I am very fortunate that I covered the NFL for 368 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: sixteen years. I covered two Olympic games. I have been 369 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: very privileged to know elite athletes, elite coaches. Right. I 370 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: mean I've got friends who are college administrators and coaches 371 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: and NFL and all those things. Right. And I don't 372 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: take that lightly. But here's the thing. When you're going 373 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: crazy about your child's you eleven football game, it's completely unnecessary. Nick. 374 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: Why Why are you gonna yell at the rest because 375 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: they made a bad play, or why are you gonna, 376 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: you know, complain to your child or to one of 377 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: the other parents about a mistake that one of the 378 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: ten or eleven year olds made in a game, because 379 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: guess what, Nick Saban, doesn't care that your kid when 380 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: the you levin state championship in Texas. This is true, 381 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: doesn't care. He doesn't care. Right now, you and I 382 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: as parents and as people who are in the world 383 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: of youth sports, I would love for us to have 384 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: a symposium where we can discuss questions like when should 385 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: winning matter? Because winning does matter? You know what I'm saying? 386 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: Winning is not everything, but winning does matter. But at 387 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: what as does it matter? I would venture to say 388 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: anything under you twelve youth thir team does not matter. 389 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: Your focus as a parent and as a steward of 390 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: your child has put them in an environment where they 391 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: can be coached up. Find them coaches who will help 392 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: develop them in that sport and develop them a little 393 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: bit off the field too. Sean, do me a favor, man. 394 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: I know we talked about the books. I know we 395 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: talked about the pot First of all, we gotta we 396 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: gotta do this again. I want to dig in, deep, 397 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: way deep and continue this on where can people find you? 398 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: I want them to dive in and find all your content. 399 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: Now you get a web say where can they find 400 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: it all? Up? Well? I really appreciate that, Nick, My website, 401 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,959 Speaker 1: and then most of my uh social media handles are 402 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: all Shawn kay Jensen, So it's s E A N 403 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: k j E N s E N So that is 404 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: Seawan k Jensen dot com is my website where you 405 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: can learn more about me and about my speaking and 406 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: about my podcast and about my book series. And then um, 407 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: you can find me on you know, verified on Twitter, 408 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: Sean kay Jensen on Instagram, and then Facebook as well, 409 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: so it's all those same handles, and so, um, you know, 410 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about three. I've got that new book 411 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: coming out, and then soon I'll be releasing a newsletter 412 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: as well, you know, so there will be a free 413 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: monthly one and then a paid weekly newsletter around youth sports, 414 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: and so I'm really excited for those things. But again, 415 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: you're right, you and I could literally I have no 416 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: doubt that we could fill two and a half three 417 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: hours just talking and getting to know each other. But again, 418 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: I just want to commend you for you know, the 419 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: worth that you're doing, and just so impressed by the 420 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: people that you have conversations with and so very flattered 421 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: that you invited me to be a guest. Sean. I 422 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: appreciate your bro, And I'm flattered you came on and 423 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this again. And uh, I can't thank 424 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: you enough for coming on, sharing your experience, sharing your feedback. Bro, 425 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: it means the world. Thank you so much. That's Sean Jensen, 426 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: author of the series Middle School Rules. Thanks for listening 427 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: to the Reformed Sports Project podcast. I'm Nick Boncourt and 428 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: our goal is to restore a healthy balance and perspective 429 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, 430 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check 431 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: out our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project