1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: We see major sports change all the time. NFL just 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: change the kickoffs. Major League Baseball is doing a pitch 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: clock and they can't do the shift anymore. We see 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: it all the time. You mentioned the NBA the three 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: point debate this year, I feel like has gotten furious 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: and it's lasted for like two months. One thing that 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I hear people suggest is maybe get rid of the 8 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: sideline threes, because they're actually closer. When it comes to 9 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: changing a game and changing the rules, it does seem 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 1: like it's a little bit different when you're changing the 11 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: actual playing surface or the court to kind of going 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: off of like Shack's point, when you sit in a room, 13 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: do you expect that to get contested and to get heated? 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: And how do you balance keeping history but also maybe 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: making alterations that could improve the game. 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: I would say, I mean, one way to answer your 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: question in terms of history, I'm not so concerned about 18 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: the comparisons of Shack to Bill Russell necessarily that to 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: the extent that it becomes a different game that there's 20 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: three point shooting in one er there's not in another. 21 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: I think we have to remain contemporary at the same time, 22 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 2: I think we have to be true to the game 23 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: of basketball. I mean, I think there are certain things 24 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: you know that you hear four point shots, things like that, 25 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 2: which strike me as gimmicky, you know, honestly that. But 26 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: on the other hand, I think potentially moving a three 27 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: point line. I mean, if you go back, you know, 28 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: I think it was red hourback thought. You know, it 29 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: was the end of basketball and the three point shot 30 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: was at it, and it took several you know, years, 31 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: if not, you know, more well longer than a decade 32 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: before teams really started, you know, changing the game in 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: a way to take advantage of the efficiency through three 34 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: point shooting. Now, again, maybe it's gone too far. It's 35 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: it's something we have to look at. But Adam, I 36 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: to answer your question directly, like cutting off the corners 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: on the three point line, you know, I think you 38 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: need to have a healthy debate. I think when we're 39 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: in the room, I think there's a lot of respect there. 40 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: You know, all those different constituencies there. I think it's 41 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: important that they all heard from. But I think there's 42 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: no problem. I don't have a problem with people being 43 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: passionate about their positions. I mean, one of the things 44 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: we try to do coming from the league office is 45 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: to present the data. I mean, usually those meetings begin 46 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: on say, all right, exactly what percentage of shots are 47 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: coming from the paint, what's three point, what's mid range? 48 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 3: I mean? 49 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 2: And speaking of the data, I think one thing that's 50 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: lost in this discussion is I think a lot of 51 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: people have the sense that sort of shock where you know, 52 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: you won your championships, where you made your living in 53 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: the paint, that somehow there's a decrease in the number 54 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: of shots coming from under the basket. That's not the 55 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: case at all. I mean, what you've seen happen over 56 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: the last twenty years is certainly it's a highly inefficient 57 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: shot if you're in two point zone, right near the 58 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 2: three point line, so that like I think most coaches 59 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: are setting their players, go two, feedback, do whatever you 60 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: have to do. That's an inefficient shot. But then there's 61 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: sort of the classic mid range jumper. And yes, a 62 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 2: lot of those shots have moved to three point shots, 63 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: but you're still seeing the same percentage of shots in 64 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: the paint. So again, you know, there's still diversity in 65 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: the league. I think though, and just again, Shack, some 66 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 2: things that you've talked about on air, I completely agree 67 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: with you to the extent, not just the three point 68 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: shooting issue, but there's a certain homogeneity in the game 69 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: that it looks that teams are copying each other's styles. 70 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: I think that's less interesting for fans, and Adam to 71 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: your point about what's happened in other sports, you know, 72 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: and they've all had to respond that analytics seem to 73 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: take over, and the analytics take you in a certain direction, 74 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: and maybe it's more three point shooting, for example, but 75 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: it makes it less interesting for the fans. And I 76 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: think back in the day, you know, you know, Shaq, 77 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: when I think of, you know, the style that you 78 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: guys played in Orlando and then in La or then 79 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: you know, you know, what think of the Pistons and 80 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: what their style was versus the Bulls, et cetera. I 81 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: think there's a lot to be said to that, to 82 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: teams having identities and so you know, you know, those 83 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: are all things that the Competition Committee is looking at. 84 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons why it's basketball people, but 85 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: you also have league representatives like myself owners in the 86 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: room to talk about the impact on engagement of our fans. 87 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 2: So it's not just a pure basketball discussion. It's also 88 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: one about what do fans really want to see, So 89 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: it's all that has to be in the mix. 90 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: You mentioned earlier rules changes, and I've always wanted to 91 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 3: ask you this personally. How does that process work. Do 92 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 3: you say I want this down and the people come 93 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 3: to you, they can plain you have to go through 94 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 3: our process. Does it take months, does it take days, 95 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 3: or does it all come and stand with you? Well? 96 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: It actually ultimately rule changes require a vote of the 97 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: board of governors of the people who own the teams, 98 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: But there's a process through our competition committee. The competition 99 00:04:51,680 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: committee includes owners, league officials, I'm on it, players union representatives, 100 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: so it's a it's a big group that all comes together, 101 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: you know, with players to discuss these issues. But one 102 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: thing I would say, it could go faster in certain instances, 103 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 2: but I also am cognizant that we shouldn't overreact. I mean, 104 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: a good example is the discussion around the three point 105 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: shooting right now, And I've heard you know, your commentary 106 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: and others on it, and it's something we're looking at closely. 107 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: But I think it is important that it's a deliberate, 108 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: deliberate process that it run through committees, that there's a 109 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: general manager's committee, that everybody have an opportunity to be 110 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: heard on it, and we're not sort of herky jerky 111 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: moving the line forward back, et cetera. Went we made 112 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: that mistake actually many years ago. People may recall we 113 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 2: moved the line in and I think it was only 114 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 2: two or three years later we moved it back out again. 115 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: And so I again, there's a process. I'm certainly not 116 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: against making changes. We made one change Shack in response 117 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 2: to the whole hacker shack issue, as you'll remember, but 118 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: even there a. 119 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: Player on the podcast, we don't say hack a shack. 120 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: It took several edit that out. It took several hack 121 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 2: of player replaced that. That's what the editing machine check 122 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: had so but it took it. You know, that was 123 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: an area where we looked at it for several years 124 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,239 Speaker 2: before we made that change, and Kay, in their situation 125 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: is probably where we've waited too long. I think last 126 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: year I should say that clarification. In addition to rule changes, 127 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: there's also what we'll call uh euphemistically, calibrations at the 128 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: League office. I think like last year there was an adjustment. 129 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: There was a sense and part of it was a 130 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: response to the basketball community that they felt that we 131 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 2: were allowing players to hunt for fouls, you know, particularly 132 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: like in certain offensive plays were call it. You know, 133 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: we're not traditional basketball plays and we're defender specifically done 134 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 2: looking for fouls. And I think we made an adjustment 135 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: because and that's an area where talking about people involved. 136 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: You know, Mike Krzyzewski coach k he's become an advisor 137 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: post Duke to to the competition committee, and I remember 138 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: him saying at one of the meetings, fans like defense too, 139 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: you know, And there was a perception out there. I 140 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: don't think it was accurate that the league was focused 141 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: on getting scores higher. That wasn't necessarily the case. I 142 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: think there was a period where, you know, Jack will 143 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: remember probably you know, in the early two thousands, I 144 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: don't know, where there was a sense of the game 145 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: had become too physical and we weren't allowing players to 146 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: show off their incredible skills, and so scores naturally then 147 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: started to creep up. And I think then there was 148 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: a perception out there that the league felt that scoring 149 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: high scores in their own right were something that fans wanted, 150 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: and that wasn't actually the case. We wanted more competitive games, 151 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: we wanted players to be able to demonstrate their skills 152 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: on the floor. But I think coach K made a 153 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: really valuable point that fans also like to see physical defense. 154 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: They don't want to see guys get hurt out there. 155 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: They don't want to see Also, just like with offense, 156 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: they don't want to see unnatural basketball play, but they 157 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: want guys to be able to be physical