1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. Senator Mike Braun was 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: elected to the United States Senate representing the state of 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Indiana in twenty eighteen. He's from Jasper, and before coming 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: to the Senate, he was founder and CEO of Meyer Distributing, 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: a company he built in his hometown of Jasper, Indiana 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: that employs hundreds of Americans across the country. He currently 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: serves on the Aging Committee, Agriculture Committee, Budget Committee, Appropriations Committee, 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: and the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. He recently 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: was part of a Republican delegation that visited the border 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: to see the immigration crisis firsthand. He's here to talk 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: about his observations. He's also leading the way on healthcare 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: reform of the Senate with four new legislative acts. Mike, 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: welcome and thanks for joining me. Could you start by 14 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: talking about your trip and will you hope to accomplish 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: and what you actually learned? Sure can, And to put 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: it in context, when I ran back in twenty eighteen, 17 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: the border immigration was right up there with the high 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: cost of healthcare and the economy. Those were the three 19 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: big issues. So the reason that kind of faded into 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: the sunset is because things were working under the Trump policy, 21 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: so unforced air on a part of the Biden administration. 22 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: When Ted Cruz said do you want to come along? 23 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: I needed to because it was important not only to Americans, 24 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: but I ran on it when I ran in Indiana. 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: So get there Thursday evening, late in the evening. First 26 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: thing we do is go down to the Rio Grand River. 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: They wanted to show us actually what is happening, steady 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: stream of young adults, kids, children, toddlers coming into the 29 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: first staging point that is underneath the road that goes 30 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: to the port of entry. Of course, we get there 31 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: with a caravan of vehicles, nothing is coming across at 32 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: that point, getting ready to leave, and all of a sudden, 33 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: I hear heckling from across the river. It's only maybe 34 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: two hundred feet wide there, and I asked the border 35 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: patrol what are they saying? And they're saying, regardless of 36 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: what you do, we're going to keep coming. And of 37 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: course it was the coyotes and smugglers on the other side. 38 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: That was a graphic way to start the trip. Next 39 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: day we visited the Donna Facility, visited with local commissioners 40 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: and mayors to get there, take on it and from 41 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: start to finish, and it was a whirlwind trip basically 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: a day punctuated pre news conference later Friday afternoon by 43 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: a trip up the river on three or four Border 44 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: Patrol boats in that half in our spa and to 45 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: forty minutes coming back down, noticed a commotion on the 46 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: US site where someone had attempted and they use rafts 47 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: there with ropes tied to it. Because they get across 48 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: the river halfway, the Border Patrol has to take them 49 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: the rest of the way because that's the theoretical border 50 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: between our country and theirs. I said, what's going on. 51 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: They said, well, it looks like there's a little dust up. 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: Oh no, there's a floater, meaning somebody had just attempted 53 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: in the midst of all that was going on there 54 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: to cross, lost his or her life doing it. Four 55 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: thousand bucks a pop that we pay the smugglers up 56 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: to twenty thousand if you're more well healed. The Delrio District, 57 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: fifty four different nationalities had been caught crossing in the 58 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 1: quarter prior to our being down there. That's the magnitude 59 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: of the issue, the Border Patrol said. The biggest single 60 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: factor helping them as the wall of course, it was 61 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: abruptly discontinued, and secondarily the stay in Mexico policy. That's 62 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: why it was at a forty five year low. There 63 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: was an enormous shift from the policy on January nineteenth, 64 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: when Trump had effectively interdicted almost everybody created changes like 65 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: to stay in Mexico policy. And what happened since then 66 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: it has been almost night and day. It has been 67 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: in sadly purely for political reasons because if it was Trump, 68 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: they were going to undo it, and on something it's 69 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: confusing as border security and immigration reform. It worked from 70 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: the point of view of the people that have to 71 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: contend with the issues day in and day out. Texas 72 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: State troopers as well, echoed exactly what the Border Patrol 73 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: told us. No substitute for being there. As soon as 74 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: we got into the Donna facility, I was the first 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: one greeted by someone from the Biden administration because we 76 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,679 Speaker 1: were taking pictures, and of course by that time several 77 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: Senators were in the facility. The only difference now is 78 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: the chain link is down that Obama put up, but 79 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: the capacity has been breached to four to five times 80 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: what it was before. When the Trump policies were in place. 81 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: Of course, you weren't going to keep eighteen nineteen senators 82 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: from taking pictures in video, and thank goodness, we were 83 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: doing it to show what the heck's happening down on 84 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: our southern border. I sort of wonder to what degree 85 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: this is deliberate. That is the reason they won't use 86 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: the word crisis is if you're a left wing Democrat, 87 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: having more illegal aliens come in isn't a crisis, It's 88 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity. If you had written quote, Biden needs to 89 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: take down the welcome sign his administration has put up 90 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: and secure the border. From your perspective, what are the 91 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: kind of welcome signs the Biden administration has put up, well, 92 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: from the literal ones of a arral on the ground 93 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: at the point where you get across the river, with 94 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: arrals that direct you right into these different staging areas, 95 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: he has invited serge to the border. And what really 96 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: frustrates me is, even though I've been a conservative in 97 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 1: the trenches, building a business that come from a place 98 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: like Indiana that's got a state government that works, you 99 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: get things done on these hot political issues. Nationally, we 100 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: get out maneuvered so often by the Democrats go back 101 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: to romy manuals, never let a crisis go to waste, 102 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: and they tell you upfront what they're going to do 103 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: and then generally have the political nerve to pull it 104 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: off regardless of the consequences. And I think when you 105 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: say with your campaigning, serge the border, we want you 106 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: to come, and then you do try to mitigate it, 107 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: when I see the absolute crisis that's been down there, 108 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: they still stick with their intent. And when you make 109 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: it that clear, it shouldn't be hard for the American 110 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: public to understand. And I think that's the way they roll, 111 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: and this is one of many issues that we're confronting. 112 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: To solve it, I think you'd have to try to 113 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: get some bipartisan stuff done, But if not, I think 114 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: they're going to ram through the Voting Rights Act first 115 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: and then you're going to see other things done legislatively 116 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: once they breached the filibuster, including formalizing some of this 117 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: stuff down at the border. It was very striking this 118 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: week that New York State has now approved a budget 119 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: that includes fifteen thousand dollars for illegal immigrants, far more 120 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: than an American citizen would get from your perspective looking 121 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: at all this, what is motivating that kind of what 122 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: I would think of as a suicidal position. But I 123 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: mean even Governor quote almost said this is an invitation 124 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: to fraud, and the people who wanted to said no, no, no, 125 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: illegal immigrants don't commit fraud because we get them deported. 126 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think is behind this passionate 127 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: desire to treat illegal immigrants better than treating American citizens. 128 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: You know, I hate to say it, but I think 129 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: in the long run, they view anyone that enters the 130 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: country illegally, and the proof is in the pudding when 131 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: you look at how they generally might vote, how states 132 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: like California, when you look at the demographics of what's 133 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: happened to a conservative state over four decades to where 134 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: over time that has been built into the political landscape, 135 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: they've got proof of how it works. Places like New 136 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: York that share that same kind of general outlook when 137 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: it comes to what you might do, even at the 138 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: most grassroots level, to politically put yourself in a better 139 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: place down the road. I think that underlies almost all 140 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: of it. And they also know that by whatever method 141 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: they use, if you keep doing it, it's going to 142 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: push the demographics that we currently are challenged with as 143 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: a party, to try to get to come to our 144 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: way of thinking, which is smaller effective government that we 145 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: know makes sense in the long run. But in the 146 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: short run, I think they keep pushing these kinds of 147 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: policies because in the long run they believe it adds 148 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: another voter into their camp. And that's the frustrating part 149 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, and in the New York case, apparently 150 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: if you register to get the money, you are automatically 151 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: registered as a voter unless you opt out, which nobody's 152 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: going to do. They literally are setting up Then this 153 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 1: is where HR one the Corrupt Politicians Act is so devastating. 154 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: They're literally setting up a system where they will recruit. 155 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're sitting in Guatemala and you read 156 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: that illegal immigrants can get fifteen grand in New York State, 157 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: you have a pretty good roadmap of where you want 158 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: to go and how much better off you're going to be. 159 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: And then if they really want you to vote, who 160 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: are you to say no? It strikes me that this 161 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: is almost like some kind of bizarre science fiction movie. 162 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: It is, and underlying it, and they know too that 163 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: the places where illegal immigrants are coming from. It's probably 164 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: demographically the only growing populations you know that are across 165 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: not only the US, but North and South America to boot, 166 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: and they're good at that. That's kind of macroeconomics from 167 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: a political sense of how you view the big picture. 168 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: And then they use rules like you decided in New 169 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: York what's already taken place in effect in California, and 170 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: it makes a heck of a political hill decline or 171 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: those of us that actually believe that we need to 172 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: maybe figure out how to address some of these issues 173 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: in a sustainable way that you can pay for in 174 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: the long run. But you're being cascaded upon by the 175 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: way the system is being breached in the present. Very frustrating. 176 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: One of the reasons I was excited about having a 177 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: chance to talk to you is, you know, it seems 178 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: to me that the Senate, with its fifty fifty split 179 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: and with issues on this scale, there must be an 180 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: amazing intensitive in the Senate right now over what's going 181 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: to happen and whether or not they will succeed either 182 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: in changing reconciliation or ending the filibuster or something, as 183 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: I get it, If they can't do something pretty decisive. 184 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: They're not going to get things like HR one through, 185 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: that's true, and I think you can get a signal 186 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: from what's happened already on the spending side, so reconciliation 187 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: for taxes, spending or debt. And let's look at the 188 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: first act of the COVID relief bill. Ten percent of 189 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: it drilled in on the particular need. Nine of it 190 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: was part of the liberal wish list. And the Infrastructure Bill, 191 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: which is so beguiling because almost all Americans view infrastructure 192 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: is something tangible where you get some bang for your buck. 193 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,239 Speaker 1: But that has been stretched if you're giving it latitude 194 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: from ten percent to maybe twenty percent of what is 195 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: traditionally considered infrastructure. But that's going to be confusing, and 196 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: even Republicans back some of that to some degree. And 197 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: I think they're going to smoke screen us with the 198 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: dollars that sense of euphoria. The economy is going to 199 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: probably be booming in twenty twenty two, and they're going 200 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: to risk bringing in these other policy issues, from HR 201 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: one to the Equality Act, to the two crown jewels, 202 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: Green New Deal and Medicare for All. And my fear 203 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: is that once they breach the filibuster, they go for 204 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: broke because they also know we can't undo any of 205 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: it until we control the presidency in both chambers. And 206 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: how often does that occur from the FDR days to 207 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: the Great Society, when you unravel something that you put 208 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: into place. No, I think that's right. The whole history 209 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: of mudern liberalism has been to take a big bite 210 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: and then digest it. Well, we're in charge, and then 211 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: when they get back in charge, take another big bite, 212 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: and they've moved us a long way towards socialism and 213 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: towards it kind of woke anti Americanism by that kind 214 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: of approach. There's also striking to me that the just 215 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: uses words to mean whatever he wants them to mean. 216 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: So they're now off on education is infrastructure, Therapy is infrastructure. 217 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: Anything they want to they're simply redefining it as infrastructure. 218 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: I mean, is that kind of wash in the Senate? 219 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: Is it going to be possible for them to get away? 220 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: It is totally redefining the English language. Well, until twenty 221 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: twenty two, we can't really do anything. We're along for 222 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: the ride, and I think they will. And they've come 223 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: out of the gate pretty smart because they've used COVID 224 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: as the excuse. In my mind, defense is the most 225 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: important thing we should do through the federal government. I 226 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: still think it needs to be held accountable through audits 227 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: and some of the financial rigor that anything we do 228 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: through government ought to be safety net. Most of us 229 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: would like to see something in place. Of course, that's 230 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: what's bankrupting the federal government currently Medicare and Social Security, 231 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: but then it's infrastructure and their second act after the 232 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: COVID relief. They are better marketers in my mind, of 233 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: how to use government than we generally are, and so often, 234 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: mister Speaker, we are the party of know and refuse 235 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: to engage. And if we don't figure out how to 236 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: grapple with the demographic challenge that I mentioned earlier. And 237 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: the reason I've been the loudest Senate voice on reforming 238 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: healthcare is I did it in my own company back 239 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: thirteen years ago. I always believe no one should go 240 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: broke because they get sick or have a bad accident. 241 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: But I knew Obamacare was doomed to fail because it 242 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: was big health insurance and big government. And then we 243 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: weren't there with some type of alternative and I think 244 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: climate is the same thing. Back in Indiana, Farmers Evangelico's 245 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: just a broad spectrum of Indiana Conservatives, especially young Republicans, 246 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: want us to be engaged, and if we're not, I 247 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: fear we get the runaround because the elixir of more 248 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: government that we don't pay for will win the day 249 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: if we don't come up with better alternatives. I happen 250 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: to agree with you on this, but you're one of 251 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: those people who think so that we really have to 252 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: have sort of in our solutions versus their solutions fight 253 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: so people can believe that we're not just a party 254 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: of no, but we actually are thinking about the things 255 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: that affect their lives. Definitely. You've introduced four different healthcare bills. 256 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: Could you just make a mint or two and talk 257 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: us about the four healthcare bills that you've developed. They're 258 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: based on what I did in my own company back 259 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. I was second tired of 260 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: getting the same kind of reaction from my health insurance folks. 261 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: I'm lucky it's going up five to ten percent each year. 262 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: That was when I had three hundred employees. Now we 263 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: have eleven hundred. They were mostly young, unmarried profile as well, 264 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: where you don't use the system much. I did a 265 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: couple of things. Then I put skin in the game 266 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: from my employees from Dollar one. I told them I'm 267 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: going to try to keep their costs down in the 268 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: long run, and I wanted them to own their own 269 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: well being, prevent engagement with the system, keep yourself in 270 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: healthy condition. Thought it would work well. It has. When 271 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: people started picking up the phone or getting on the 272 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: web to engage on the minor healthcare stuff. It's amazing 273 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: how it changed a healthcare consumer from wanting everything paid 274 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: for to being engaged in it. So what I've tried 275 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: to do here is take those same things that have worked. 276 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: By the way, we haven't had a premium increase in 277 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: thirteen years and lowered family plans by fifty percent. There's 278 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: not another CEO that can probably say that in the country. 279 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: But it's based upon transparency. The climate issue, I want 280 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: to cite that as a comparison. The entire spectrum is 281 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: interested in being part of the solution, from transportation to energy, 282 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: electric production, agriculture, concrete, steel, the healthcare industry, and Larren 283 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: Buffett was right, a tapeworm on our economy and they're 284 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: dug in and of game the system and Republicans defended 285 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: as free enterprise, you got to have transparency, robust competition, 286 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: and engage consumer. We don't have any of that. So 287 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: I've done drugged transparency bills, dropped a broad bill with 288 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: some House members called the Fair Care Act, which is 289 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: not even on this list, a pure health transparency bill 290 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: that aims mostly at hospitals. By the way, the one 291 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: executive order that got through from the Trump administration upheld 292 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: by district and appellate courts. That's out there and it's 293 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: starting to work in when it comes to where we 294 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: mostly engage the healthcare system in the pharmaceutical area, even 295 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: though that's only fifteen percent of the total bill to 296 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: try to speed up the process on what the FDA does, 297 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: similar to what we just did with vaccines, called the 298 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: Promising Pathways Act newte There's so much it needs to 299 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: be changed in healthcare. It's not free enterprise. It's like 300 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: an unregulated utility. And I'm trying to put bills out 301 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: there that do that instead of where we cascade to 302 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: the Bernie Sanders Plan. So two things. Are you mentioned 303 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: your company's experiences. Have you written on that extensively. Mean, 304 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: can somebody pick up the track record and see that 305 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: you're not just talking about theory, you actually have practiced this, 306 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: have actually done it. And I tried to do the 307 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: same thing as a freshman legislator in the Indiana State House, 308 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: but the healthcare lobbies were so strong I couldn't even 309 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: get a committee hearing when the committee chairs were my buddies. 310 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: Now in this last year, they've done some of that 311 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: in Indiana. So I haven't written on it. That will 312 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: probably be something I do down the road, but I 313 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: talk about it all the time in front of big 314 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: groups of healthcare CEOs and to try to get the 315 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: other side of the aisle to maybe look at trying 316 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: to reform the system before they dump more government into it, 317 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: because if we did, when I'm interested in doing, it 318 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: would be less money for Medicare and Medicaid as well 319 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: as a private insurance sector. And it does work. And 320 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated because as a historian, I always believe that 321 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: imitation is cheaper than invention, And I also think you 322 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: look for people who are already winning and try to 323 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: figure out what the principles of their winning are. You know, 324 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: if you've got somebody either on your staff or beck 325 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: at your company who really understands us. It can be 326 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: sort of your partner in writing it out. I think 327 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: just the history of your company's experience, and then maybe 328 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: a closing chapter on your new proposals. I think that 329 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,959 Speaker 1: could be a historically important book in getting the country 330 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: to understand that here is a real model. You can 331 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: look at this model online, you can talk to people 332 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: who've been doing it, and I think it would be 333 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: a real breakthrough, a moment in getting us back towards 334 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: a market oriented, transparent and accountable health system, which I've 335 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: spent a great deal of time since i left the speakership. 336 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: I wrote a book called Saving Lives and Saving Money, 337 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: and I've worked on a whole series of proposals, including 338 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: creating the Center for Health Transformation. And I'm just absolutely 339 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: convinced that you are in the right direction. And we'd 340 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: like to work with your team to post on our 341 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,479 Speaker 1: website in our show page for this particular podcast, whatever 342 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: is available in writing so people can go to it 343 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: and can begin to realize that you're a genuine pioneer. 344 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: You're not just some theoretician. You're a person who puts 345 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: your money and your company behind your ideas and learned 346 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: how to make it work in the real world. I 347 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: really commend you for that, but I'd urge you to 348 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: try to think about how the experience of your company 349 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: could be organized in such a way that every American 350 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: citizen could have a chance to see that we could 351 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: actually have better outcomes at lower costs with greater accountability, 352 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: which I truly believe would be the biggest single step 353 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: back towards a balanced budget. What's driving our structural deficits 354 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: would be Medicare Number one. That trust fund is fully 355 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: depleted in a little over five years. Every penny employers 356 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: and employees are paid into it since the sixties. Self 357 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: security follows in the early thirties in the same boat. 358 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: And that's a question of political will and things that 359 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: we've known actuarily for decades in terms of what to do. 360 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: But I'll take you up on that. Full of anecdotes 361 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: like the day we went live and listen to how 362 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: this almost gave me the chills when it occurred when 363 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: I had an employee that didn't like the fact that 364 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: there was going to be skin in the game on 365 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: a prescription. We had a ten dollar copay, which was 366 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: costing us copais in the company one fourth of our 367 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: total premium each year. And of course that was going 368 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: to be gone for a two hundred dollars a month medication. 369 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: It would have been with the copaid ten times twelve, 370 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty bucks two hundred times twelve twenty 371 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: four hundred dollars. I said, have you ever bothered to 372 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: shop around for that medication? Well, why in the heck 373 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: would I with a ten dollars copay? Within thirty seconds 374 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight or nine, he got on 375 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: the internet and founded for ninety nine bucks without going 376 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: to Canada. I said, this can't be true. When you 377 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: engage with that ability where it's not being offered easily 378 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: by the industry, you generally save thirty to seventy percent. 379 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: The industry doesn't want you to do that because they 380 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: benefit otherwise, but it's there. And that's one little anecdote. 381 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: Somebody said one time that one person's reforms another person's bankruptcy, 382 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: because a lot of these systems are big and bloated, 383 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: and they rely on our willingness to pay far more 384 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: than the real value of what we're getting in order 385 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: for them to survive and be profitable. It's amazing lazic surgery, 386 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: which I looked at ten years ago close to two 387 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: thousand bucks an I. I'm driving up the Indie the 388 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: other day for some event one hundred and ninety nine 389 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: dollars an I from the biggest provider in Indiana. And 390 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: it's an example where there is nothing other than a 391 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: provider and a patient hooking up without insurance. Now that's 392 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: a true market, and that is another example of what 393 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: can happen if that was the paradigm across the board. 394 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. And we will look forward both 395 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: to collaborating with your team and also maybe in a 396 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: couple of months to do a podcast on nothing but 397 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: the possibilities of a dramatic breakthrough and healthcare and listen. 398 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for your commitment to the country and for 399 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: your willingness to go literally the extra couple of hundred 400 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: miles from Indiana to the border, and I look forward 401 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: very much to working with you. Thank you. Thank you 402 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: to my guests. Senator Mike Brown. You can read more 403 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: about his recent trip to the border and his new 404 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: healthcare plan on our show page at newtsworld dot com. 405 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: News World is produced by Gingwish, Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. 406 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: Our executive producers Debbie Myers, our producers guard Zie Sloan, 407 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the 408 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the 409 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: team at Gingwich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 410 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 411 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,959 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 412 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 413 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: of news World can sign up from my three free 414 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: weekly columns at Kingwich three sixty dot com slash newsletter. 415 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm newt Gangwig. This is Newsworld.