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There's a core idea in science that 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:05.720 experiments should be repeatable. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.600 If you do an experiment the same way different times, 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.480 you should get the same result. 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.480 However, there is a loophole. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.240 There's a loophole in science. 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.400 Yeah, and that loophole opens a window into everything we 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.680 think is true about reality in the universe and everything. 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.880 Welcome to Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.040 In which we try to take the entire universe and 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.560 break it into bite sized pieces so you can enjoy 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:51.880 them with your afternoon coffee. 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.679 I'm more I'm a cartoonist. I draw comics online. 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.160 And I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. I spend my 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.640 days smashing protons together at the large Hadron colliders to 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.400 try to reveal the secrets of the universe, mostly so 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.760 that I can tell them to you in this podcast. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.000 Basically, only one of us is qualified to be explaining 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:11.480 things to you on this podcast. 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.399 That would be the cartoonist. Yeah, physicists are not qualified 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.000 usually to be explainers. Mostly we just try to solve 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.880 the mysteries of the universe. We don't try to tell 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:21.120 anybody about them, right. 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.760 Mostly physicists just need explaining, that's right. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:26.639 That's where the cartoons come in, right. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.480 Yeah, and spouses also, spouses of physicists probably have to 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:31.600 do a lot of explaining. 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.720 You've got some explaining to do, exactly. Yeah. So we're 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:37.800 here to talk to you about big questions about the universe. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.360 And today's question is a really deep and basic question, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.400 and it's about the very nature of reality. What is it? 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:45.840 What are we going to talk about today? 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:53.240 Is the universe random or is it just chaotic? And 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:54.360 what's the difference? 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.839 Or is it run by some super being and we're 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.800 actually just in their simulation. But that's other episode. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:02.000 That's a whole other podcast. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.920 Right today, just the two sinister options, random or chaotic, 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.560 you might feel like, ooh, neither of those sound very cozy. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.280 I don't want to live in either of those universes. 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.760 Well, the question basically breaks down to is the universe predictable? 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.320 Like can you predict what the universe is going to do? 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.880 Or is it that nobody can predict what the universe 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:21.480 is going to do? 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.760 Right? And I think that's why it's an awesome question 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.640 for science because for so many thousands and thousands of years, 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.200 I think humans probably felt like the universe around them 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.200 was totally unpredictable. I mean, they invented gods for this 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.760 and for that to try to describe how the universe 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.480 was out of their control and doing things that didn't 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.320 make sense, as if it had some you know, will 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.279 and agency, right, Yeah, and then science comes along it 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.599 says actually there are rules and you can discover them, 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.800 and slowly science starts to creep in this description of 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.800 the universe that locks out this agency, this idea, this personality, 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.120 and gives you the sense that maybe the universe follows 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:57.839 these rules. 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.039 Right. So we went out and as usual, you'll ask 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.520 people on the street do you think the universe is 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.000 random or chaotic? 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.120 And here's what they had to say. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.479 That's gonna okay, that's a that's a thinker right there. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:17.760 I would say, surely random. With randomness comes chaos. You 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.000 never know what will happen, but there's there's always a 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.960 probability and a chance of things, of certain things happening. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:25.560 I'd like to say random. 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.679 I'm religious, so I feel like everything happens for a reason, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.640 And yes it is random, but there's a purpose behind everything. 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.640 I think it's a mixture of both. Like it's random, 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:40.800 but it can appear chaotic because of how. 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:45.919 Everything is truly chaotic, because like on a smaller level, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:50.359 everything is like moving really fast, but at like a 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.840 bigger level, we don't see any of that. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:55.840 Wow, So would you think of those answers or him? 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.480 I think they were all over the place. They were 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.000 actually kind of random. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.640 Yeah, they're random and chaotic. I feel like I feel 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.760 like people had no idea what I was asking them, 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:07.600 you know, I. 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.080 Feel like people just I feel like they had no 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:10.279 idea what they were answering. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.640 Some of those people. I remember recording these interviews, and 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.480 some of those people, as the words were coming out 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.279 of their mouth, I felt like they surprised them as 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.320 much as they did me. Like it was all over 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:20.719 the place. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.320 Yeah, well, I feel like some people it's interesting. Some 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.719 people related to that question to the other question, which 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.359 is like does the universe have a purpose? Like do 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.479 things happen for a reason? Or do they Is it 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.159 just like a random role to die and nobody's really 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.839 in charge? Like that's the question, right, Like is somebody 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.200 in charge of the universe or is it impossible for 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.080 anyone to kind of predict what it's going to do? 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:44.880 Yeah, I think you're right. That does get at the 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:46.760 heart of the question. You know what's going to happen 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.320 in the universe and can we tell and can we 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.320 influence it? Right? Is the universe sort of churning on 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.240 without our ability to change this direction at all in 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.800 some sort of way that's been determined since the dawn 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.640 of time? Or can we nudget and in one way 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.480 or the other, you know, make the calves win? Or 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:04.320 can you if you jump up and down in front 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.440 of your television enough whill the Warriors win another NBA championship? 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.680 You know? Can you influence the world? I think that's 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.080 a that's an interesting and deep question. Yeah, that's probably 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.920 the one people were actually having in their mind. 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.400 Yeah, so may let's go back in history. And I 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.560 like how you think about this question a lot, Daniel, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:22.520 which is that you sort of start with early man, 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.560 like the cave men and woman and women, early humans, 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:29.240 we're really just kind of at the mercy of all 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.160 the elements and all the animals out there and the weather, 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.920 and so they to them, the universe was this crazy, 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.040 random and chaotic place, right, Yeah. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.520 And it actually it touches on sort of my personal 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.520 theory of consciousness, which is that we developed this awareness 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.080 because we are looking out into the world for other 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.240 people or other ideas. Are there intelligences and we have 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.400 this hyperactive ability to see agency, to see intention in 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.800 something that we don't understand, and we imagine that there 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.400 must be a mind behind it. And so I think 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.920 for a long time, people's view the world was that 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.600 it was controlled by other greater minds. You know, what 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.560 controls the lightning? Why do some people die of disease? 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:07.360 All this stuff? 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.480 And then as there must be like a consciousness that 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.240 is shooting out these lightning bolts or making it rain, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.840 or you know, making the sun come out. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.160 Or killing my baby of some horrible disease. Right, like, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.880 there must be. It's hard to live in this world 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.080 if you don't have the sense that there's somebody else 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.280 in charge. Right there's a lot of suffering and a 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.800 lot of pain, and a lot of unexplained events, and 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.760 it's nice to think somebody else out there is taking 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.520 care of it, or somebody's in charge of it. 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.000 But there's a reason, right. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.120 Yeah, that there's a reason, that there's some design. It's 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.880 not just random. But then as history progresses, as we 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.240 were saying earlier, you know, science comes along, it says, well, 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.360 there are seemed to be some rules, not just like 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.760 that anything can happen. You can't have an Ostrich here 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.200 and then all of a sudden the ostrich is gone. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.880 There are some rules that limit what can happen. If 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.440 you know what's happening. Now there's a certain set of 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.000 possibilities for what can happen in one second and two seconds? 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:01.720 Then you know that's physics, right. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.360 Well, it started with like noticing patterns, right, Like lightning 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.480 doesn't just come out of nowhere, It comes out when 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.440 there's these dark clouds in the sky. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.600 Right, Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And people started noticing patterns and 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.480 started putting those together and then asking themselves, can I 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.200 use what I've learned in the past to predict the future? 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:21.600 Right? 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.120 Like if I have the same set of events that 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.120 happened yesterday, I am I going to be able to 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:27.880 tell what's going to happen next week if the same 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:28.400 thing happens. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:28.520 Right. 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.040 If I roll a ball down the hill yesterday and 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.320 it goes up to a certain speed, will the same 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:34.480 thing happen tomorrow? 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.600 Right? Right? Or if I throw a ball in the 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.160 air and I know which direction it's going and how 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.120 fast it is going, can I predict where it's going 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.920 to land exactly? If I build a catapult, can I 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.120 basically aim it right? 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.920 Exactly? And that's how military technology drove science even hundreds 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.160 of years ago. Right, where do I shoot my cannon exactly? 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:53.280 To get over that wall. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.679 Yeah, well, that's kind of where Newton came in, right, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.000 Isaac Newton, And that's why they say he kind of 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.880 gave birth to science, right, or at least the scientific revolution. 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:04.840 No, I think it was earlier than that. Newton came 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:09.839 along well after folks like Galileo and Francis Bacon and 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.840 those guys. They really were the first ones to do 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.319 experiments and to say, let's see what the rules of 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.120 the universe is following, and let's see if we can 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.160 try to deduce them and use those to predict the 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.000 outcome of future experiments. They really were the first ones 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.080 to connect the idea of a scientific universe to the 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.360 actual experiments they do to influence those ideas and to 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.200 predict future results. And I think that's the key is 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.199 that here we've developed a system science which can not 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.480 only explain what we've seen before, but can predict the future. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.000 Now you are about to fire a cannon ball at 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.480 your enemy. You want to know where is that ball 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.520 going to fly? And it's incredible that physics can do that. 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.240 It can literally predict the future if you know enough 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.040 about the situation, right. 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.200 Right, It's kind of like Google Maps. Now it can 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.079 totally tell if you're going to be late to meeting 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.960 or not, or to a podcast recording, like how long 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:00.720 will take you to get home? They're like, oh, they're 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:01.199 going to be late. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.280 It's not always a hard problem though. Jege for example, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.920 it says if person equals whohe, then late equals true 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:08.560 every time. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:10.200 Every time. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.520 Data predictable data, and some of these things are simple, 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.760 but some of these things are complicated, And it's incredible 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.960 to witness as physics sort of builds confidence and science 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.560 develops our ability to predict you know, chemical reactions and 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.520 biological function, all sorts of things, and then it gives 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.080 this creeping sense of is there anything that can escape science? Right? 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:39.120 Can science predict everything? Like if you knew enough about 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.440 the world, could you break it all down to cannonballs 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.480 to predict where all those cannonballs are going to fly 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.160 and then tell exactly what's going to happen? 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.560 Yeah, And it's like kind of like if you know 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:52.360 that force equals mass times acceleration, like Newton figured out, 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.119 then you can predict things like cannon balls and catapults 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.480 and and and you could possibly predict like how a 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.160 room of particles move, right, Yeah, possibly you can extend 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:09.000 that to can you predict how the whole world works? Yeah, 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.680 what it's going to do and what people are going to. 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.280 Do, extrapolate to the whole universe, right, Yeah, I mean, 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.400 and that's the principle of determinism. It says, look, if 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.000 things follow rules, and the future is dependent only two things, 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.520 one the rules and two the things that are happening 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.680 now the current state, right, given if you know exactly 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.040 where things are, imagine the whole universe is just a 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.199 bunch of tiny cannonballs, right, and you know the rules 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.439 of those cannonballs, and you know the position and direction 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.800 of motion of all those cannonballs. Then in principle, given 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.199 a super powerful universe sized computer, you should be able 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.400 to predict the future one to five ten seconds into 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.400 the future, a thousand seconds into the future. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.640 Like every single molecule, atom, subatomic particle. You should be able. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.320 If it follows rules, you should be able to kind 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.760 of track where it's going to go. Is should tell you, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.920 based on where things are now, what's going to happen exactly. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:12:59.840 It's kind of like this idea of a clock, right right, 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.640 is the universe giant clock just kind of clicking along 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.880 or is there some kind of magic inside of it 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:08.680 that makes it unpredictable? 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.800 Right exactly. And the idea of the universe just being 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.240 a huge clock is both exciting and terrifying. Right. It's 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.320 exciting because like, wow, can you imagine we could understand 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.480 the universe that well, that we could predict the future, 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.360 think about what we could do, right, But it's terrifying 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.120 because it's sort of like you're trapped in this science 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.440 cage where you have no influence over the world and 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.880 everything you do and know and say, and that joke 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.840 you're gonna make in that fart you're gonna let slip 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.959 are all predictable, right, All those things are predictable. That's scary. 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:38.960 It makes you feel like you are part of that 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.480 watch and you're just clicking along because you're reacting to 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.840 things around you in your initial conditions. And so that's terrifying. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.600 And I think we have kind of an innate sense 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.760 of like rejecting this idea that we're trapped. Right. Everyone 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.360 wants to feel like they have free will, Like everyone 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:56.760 wants to know that they have a choice. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.960 Right, Well, I guess so my kids don't feel that way, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.719 you know, like, why did you hit your sister? Well, 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.680 she hit me, you know, Like, well, so what you 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.600 have no free will? Like you're completely determined by her behavior. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.360 I have that argument with my kids so many times. 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.240 I'm always thinking about the philosophical echoes of that. 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.960 My kids are always rebelling. They're like, we want free will. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:18.600 Don't tell us what to do? 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:20.880 I see, but they want you to follow rules. They're like, 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.880 you promised, daddy we could have ice cream, right, and 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.200 so therefore you have to There's no more decision to 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:26.600 be made. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:27.920 Kids are so unfair. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:34.720 They're philosophically inconsistent. 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I think there's 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.760 something fascinating about the deterministic view of the universe, but 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.720 probably people out there thinking, Okay, maybe in theory you 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.800 could predict the whole universe, but in practice that's impossible. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.600 I mean, you don't have a universe sized computer to 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.480 break the whole universe, and even to predict like you know, 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.960 a person is a huge number of articles, and so 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.240 to do that calculation just seems impractical. 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.159 Right, Right, it's practically possible, but I think people revel 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.520 just to the idea of it, right, Like, are my 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.680 thoughts my thoughts or just something that I'm programmed and 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:47.720 that I will inevitably have and do. 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.639