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Speaker 1: When you pull up to game night, Ay, all new Camri,

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Speaker 4: Five, the all new all hybrid Camri Toyota.

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Speaker 1: Let's go places. There's a core idea in science that

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Speaker 1: experiments should be repeatable.

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Speaker 4: If you do an experiment the same way different times,

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Speaker 4: you should get the same result.

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Speaker 1: However, there is a loophole.

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Speaker 4: There's a loophole in science.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that loophole opens a window into everything we

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Speaker 1: think is true about reality in the universe and everything.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe.

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Speaker 1: In which we try to take the entire universe and

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Speaker 1: break it into bite sized pieces so you can enjoy

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Speaker 1: them with your afternoon coffee.

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Speaker 4: I'm more I'm a cartoonist. I draw comics online.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. I spend my

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Speaker 1: days smashing protons together at the large Hadron colliders to

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Speaker 1: try to reveal the secrets of the universe, mostly so

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Speaker 1: that I can tell them to you in this podcast.

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Speaker 4: Basically, only one of us is qualified to be explaining

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Speaker 4: things to you on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: That would be the cartoonist. Yeah, physicists are not qualified

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Speaker 1: usually to be explainers. Mostly we just try to solve

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Speaker 1: the mysteries of the universe. We don't try to tell

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Speaker 1: anybody about them, right.

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Speaker 4: Mostly physicists just need explaining, that's right.

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Speaker 1: That's where the cartoons come in, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and spouses also, spouses of physicists probably have to

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Speaker 4: do a lot of explaining.

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Speaker 1: You've got some explaining to do, exactly. Yeah. So we're

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Speaker 1: here to talk to you about big questions about the universe.

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Speaker 1: And today's question is a really deep and basic question,

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Speaker 1: and it's about the very nature of reality. What is it?

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Speaker 1: What are we going to talk about today?

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Speaker 4: Is the universe random or is it just chaotic? And

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Speaker 4: what's the difference?

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Speaker 1: Or is it run by some super being and we're

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Speaker 1: actually just in their simulation. But that's other episode.

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Speaker 4: That's a whole other podcast.

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Speaker 1: Right today, just the two sinister options, random or chaotic,

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Speaker 1: you might feel like, ooh, neither of those sound very cozy.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to live in either of those universes.

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Speaker 4: Well, the question basically breaks down to is the universe predictable?

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Speaker 4: Like can you predict what the universe is going to do?

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Speaker 4: Or is it that nobody can predict what the universe

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Speaker 4: is going to do?

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Speaker 1: Right? And I think that's why it's an awesome question

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Speaker 1: for science because for so many thousands and thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: I think humans probably felt like the universe around them

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Speaker 1: was totally unpredictable. I mean, they invented gods for this

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Speaker 1: and for that to try to describe how the universe

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Speaker 1: was out of their control and doing things that didn't

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Speaker 1: make sense, as if it had some you know, will

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Speaker 1: and agency, right, Yeah, and then science comes along it

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Speaker 1: says actually there are rules and you can discover them,

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Speaker 1: and slowly science starts to creep in this description of

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Speaker 1: the universe that locks out this agency, this idea, this personality,

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Speaker 1: and gives you the sense that maybe the universe follows

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Speaker 1: these rules.

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Speaker 4: Right. So we went out and as usual, you'll ask

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Speaker 4: people on the street do you think the universe is

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Speaker 4: random or chaotic?

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Speaker 1: And here's what they had to say.

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Speaker 5: That's gonna okay, that's a that's a thinker right there.

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Speaker 5: I would say, surely random. With randomness comes chaos. You

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Speaker 5: never know what will happen, but there's there's always a

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Speaker 5: probability and a chance of things, of certain things happening.

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Speaker 4: I'd like to say random.

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Speaker 3: I'm religious, so I feel like everything happens for a reason,

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Speaker 3: And yes it is random, but there's a purpose behind everything.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a mixture of both. Like it's random,

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Speaker 4: but it can appear chaotic because of how.

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Speaker 6: Everything is truly chaotic, because like on a smaller level,

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Speaker 6: everything is like moving really fast, but at like a

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Speaker 6: bigger level, we don't see any of that.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So would you think of those answers or him?

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Speaker 4: I think they were all over the place. They were

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Speaker 4: actually kind of random.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're random and chaotic. I feel like I feel

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Speaker 1: like people had no idea what I was asking them,

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Speaker 1: you know, I.

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Speaker 4: Feel like people just I feel like they had no

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Speaker 4: idea what they were answering.

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Speaker 1: Some of those people. I remember recording these interviews, and

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Speaker 1: some of those people, as the words were coming out

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Speaker 1: of their mouth, I felt like they surprised them as

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Speaker 1: much as they did me. Like it was all over

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Speaker 1: the place.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I feel like some people it's interesting. Some

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Speaker 4: people related to that question to the other question, which

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Speaker 4: is like does the universe have a purpose? Like do

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Speaker 4: things happen for a reason? Or do they Is it

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Speaker 4: just like a random role to die and nobody's really

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Speaker 4: in charge? Like that's the question, right, Like is somebody

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Speaker 4: in charge of the universe or is it impossible for

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Speaker 4: anyone to kind of predict what it's going to do?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. That does get at the

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Speaker 1: heart of the question. You know what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: in the universe and can we tell and can we

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Speaker 1: influence it? Right? Is the universe sort of churning on

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Speaker 1: without our ability to change this direction at all in

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Speaker 1: some sort of way that's been determined since the dawn

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Speaker 1: of time? Or can we nudget and in one way

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Speaker 1: or the other, you know, make the calves win? Or

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Speaker 1: can you if you jump up and down in front

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Speaker 1: of your television enough whill the Warriors win another NBA championship?

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Speaker 1: You know? Can you influence the world? I think that's

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Speaker 1: a that's an interesting and deep question. Yeah, that's probably

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Speaker 1: the one people were actually having in their mind.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so may let's go back in history. And I

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Speaker 4: like how you think about this question a lot, Daniel,

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Speaker 4: which is that you sort of start with early man,

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Speaker 4: like the cave men and woman and women, early humans,

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Speaker 4: we're really just kind of at the mercy of all

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Speaker 4: the elements and all the animals out there and the weather,

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Speaker 4: and so they to them, the universe was this crazy,

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Speaker 4: random and chaotic place, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it actually it touches on sort of my personal

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Speaker 1: theory of consciousness, which is that we developed this awareness

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Speaker 1: because we are looking out into the world for other

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Speaker 1: people or other ideas. Are there intelligences and we have

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Speaker 1: this hyperactive ability to see agency, to see intention in

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Speaker 1: something that we don't understand, and we imagine that there

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Speaker 1: must be a mind behind it. And so I think

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Speaker 1: for a long time, people's view the world was that

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Speaker 1: it was controlled by other greater minds. You know, what

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Speaker 1: controls the lightning? Why do some people die of disease?

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Speaker 1: All this stuff?

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Speaker 4: And then as there must be like a consciousness that

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Speaker 4: is shooting out these lightning bolts or making it rain,

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Speaker 4: or you know, making the sun come out.

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Speaker 1: Or killing my baby of some horrible disease. Right, like,

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Speaker 1: there must be. It's hard to live in this world

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Speaker 1: if you don't have the sense that there's somebody else

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Speaker 1: in charge. Right there's a lot of suffering and a

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Speaker 1: lot of pain, and a lot of unexplained events, and

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Speaker 1: it's nice to think somebody else out there is taking

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Speaker 1: care of it, or somebody's in charge of it.

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Speaker 4: But there's a reason, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that there's a reason, that there's some design. It's

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Speaker 1: not just random. But then as history progresses, as we

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Speaker 1: were saying earlier, you know, science comes along, it says, well,

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Speaker 1: there are seemed to be some rules, not just like

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Speaker 1: that anything can happen. You can't have an Ostrich here

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden the ostrich is gone.

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Speaker 1: There are some rules that limit what can happen. If

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Speaker 1: you know what's happening. Now there's a certain set of

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Speaker 1: possibilities for what can happen in one second and two seconds?

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Speaker 1: Then you know that's physics, right.

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Speaker 4: Well, it started with like noticing patterns, right, Like lightning

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Speaker 4: doesn't just come out of nowhere, It comes out when

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Speaker 4: there's these dark clouds in the sky.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And people started noticing patterns and

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Speaker 1: started putting those together and then asking themselves, can I

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Speaker 1: use what I've learned in the past to predict the future?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 1: Like if I have the same set of events that

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Speaker 1: happened yesterday, I am I going to be able to

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Speaker 1: tell what's going to happen next week if the same

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Speaker 1: thing happens.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: If I roll a ball down the hill yesterday and

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Speaker 1: it goes up to a certain speed, will the same

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Speaker 1: thing happen tomorrow?

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Speaker 4: Right? Right? Or if I throw a ball in the

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Speaker 4: air and I know which direction it's going and how

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Speaker 4: fast it is going, can I predict where it's going

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Speaker 4: to land exactly? If I build a catapult, can I

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Speaker 4: basically aim it right?

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Speaker 1: Exactly? And that's how military technology drove science even hundreds

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Speaker 1: of years ago. Right, where do I shoot my cannon exactly?

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Speaker 1: To get over that wall.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, that's kind of where Newton came in, right,

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Speaker 4: Isaac Newton, And that's why they say he kind of

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Speaker 4: gave birth to science, right, or at least the scientific revolution.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it was earlier than that. Newton came

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Speaker 1: along well after folks like Galileo and Francis Bacon and

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Speaker 1: those guys. They really were the first ones to do

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Speaker 1: experiments and to say, let's see what the rules of

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Speaker 1: the universe is following, and let's see if we can

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Speaker 1: try to deduce them and use those to predict the

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Speaker 1: outcome of future experiments. They really were the first ones

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Speaker 1: to connect the idea of a scientific universe to the

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Speaker 1: actual experiments they do to influence those ideas and to

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Speaker 1: predict future results. And I think that's the key is

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Speaker 1: that here we've developed a system science which can not

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Speaker 1: only explain what we've seen before, but can predict the future.

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Speaker 1: Now you are about to fire a cannon ball at

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Speaker 1: your enemy. You want to know where is that ball

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Speaker 1: going to fly? And it's incredible that physics can do that.

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Speaker 1: It can literally predict the future if you know enough

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Speaker 1: about the situation, right.

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Speaker 4: Right, It's kind of like Google Maps. Now it can

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Speaker 4: totally tell if you're going to be late to meeting

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Speaker 4: or not, or to a podcast recording, like how long

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Speaker 4: will take you to get home? They're like, oh, they're

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Speaker 4: going to be late.

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Speaker 1: It's not always a hard problem though. Jege for example,

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Speaker 1: it says if person equals whohe, then late equals true

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Speaker 1: every time.

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Speaker 4: Every time.

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Speaker 1: Data predictable data, and some of these things are simple,

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Speaker 1: but some of these things are complicated, And it's incredible

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Speaker 1: to witness as physics sort of builds confidence and science

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Speaker 1: develops our ability to predict you know, chemical reactions and

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Speaker 1: biological function, all sorts of things, and then it gives

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Speaker 1: this creeping sense of is there anything that can escape science? Right?

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Speaker 1: Can science predict everything? Like if you knew enough about

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Speaker 1: the world, could you break it all down to cannonballs

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Speaker 1: to predict where all those cannonballs are going to fly

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Speaker 1: and then tell exactly what's going to happen?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's like kind of like if you know

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Speaker 4: that force equals mass times acceleration, like Newton figured out,

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Speaker 4: then you can predict things like cannon balls and catapults

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Speaker 4: and and and you could possibly predict like how a

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Speaker 4: room of particles move, right, Yeah, possibly you can extend

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Speaker 4: that to can you predict how the whole world works? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: what it's going to do and what people are going to.

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Speaker 1: Do, extrapolate to the whole universe, right, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and that's the principle of determinism. It says, look, if

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Speaker 1: things follow rules, and the future is dependent only two things,

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Speaker 1: one the rules and two the things that are happening

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Speaker 1: now the current state, right, given if you know exactly

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Speaker 1: where things are, imagine the whole universe is just a

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Speaker 1: bunch of tiny cannonballs, right, and you know the rules

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Speaker 1: of those cannonballs, and you know the position and direction

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Speaker 1: of motion of all those cannonballs. Then in principle, given

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Speaker 1: a super powerful universe sized computer, you should be able

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Speaker 1: to predict the future one to five ten seconds into

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Speaker 1: the future, a thousand seconds into the future.

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Speaker 4: Like every single molecule, atom, subatomic particle. You should be able.

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Speaker 4: If it follows rules, you should be able to kind

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Speaker 4: of track where it's going to go. Is should tell you,

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Speaker 4: based on where things are now, what's going to happen exactly.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of like this idea of a clock, right right,

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Speaker 4: is the universe giant clock just kind of clicking along

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Speaker 4: or is there some kind of magic inside of it

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Speaker 4: that makes it unpredictable?

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Speaker 1: Right exactly. And the idea of the universe just being

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Speaker 1: a huge clock is both exciting and terrifying. Right. It's

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Speaker 1: exciting because like, wow, can you imagine we could understand

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Speaker 1: the universe that well, that we could predict the future,

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Speaker 1: think about what we could do, right, But it's terrifying

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Speaker 1: because it's sort of like you're trapped in this science

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Speaker 1: cage where you have no influence over the world and

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Speaker 1: everything you do and know and say, and that joke

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Speaker 1: you're gonna make in that fart you're gonna let slip

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Speaker 1: are all predictable, right, All those things are predictable. That's scary.

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Speaker 1: It makes you feel like you are part of that

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Speaker 1: watch and you're just clicking along because you're reacting to

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Speaker 1: things around you in your initial conditions. And so that's terrifying.

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Speaker 4: And I think we have kind of an innate sense

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Speaker 4: of like rejecting this idea that we're trapped. Right. Everyone

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Speaker 4: wants to feel like they have free will, Like everyone

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Speaker 4: wants to know that they have a choice.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, I guess so my kids don't feel that way,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, why did you hit your sister? Well,

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Speaker 1: she hit me, you know, Like, well, so what you

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Speaker 1: have no free will? Like you're completely determined by her behavior.

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Speaker 1: I have that argument with my kids so many times.

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Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about the philosophical echoes of that.

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Speaker 4: My kids are always rebelling. They're like, we want free will.

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Speaker 4: Don't tell us what to do?

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Speaker 1: I see, but they want you to follow rules. They're like,

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Speaker 1: you promised, daddy we could have ice cream, right, and

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Speaker 1: so therefore you have to There's no more decision to

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Speaker 1: be made.

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Speaker 4: Kids are so unfair.

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Speaker 1: They're philosophically inconsistent. I think it's really the problem with Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the cute, But if they just read some more Nietzsche,

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00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, and some some carl and some Popper or whatever,

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Speaker 1: they would be easier to be around.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, forget those picture books. Let's introduce it.

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Speaker 1: something fascinating about the deterministic view of the universe, but

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Speaker 1: probably people out there thinking, Okay, maybe in theory you

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Speaker 1: could predict the whole universe, but in practice that's impossible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have a universe sized computer to

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Speaker 1: break the whole universe, and even to predict like you know,

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Speaker 1: a person is a huge number of articles, and so

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Speaker 1: to do that calculation just seems impractical.

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Speaker 4: Right, Right, it's practically possible, but I think people revel

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Speaker 4: just to the idea of it, right, Like, are my

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Speaker 4: thoughts my thoughts or just something that I'm programmed and

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Speaker 4: that I will inevitably have and do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a really deep question. And so we

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Speaker 1: started out with prehistoric man feeling like the universe is

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Speaker 1: full of random not random, but unexplained agency and intelligence

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Speaker 1: all the way to life. Now, scientific physical determinism says, actually,

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Speaker 1: the universe just clicks along like a watch, right, and

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Speaker 1: there's no free will. So let's take one step back

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Speaker 1: from that, and that's chaos. That says, well, maybe the

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Speaker 1: universe is deterministic, sure, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily

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Speaker 1: practical for you to predict it because the way things

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Speaker 1: play out is really sensitive to exactly how things started.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think some people who responded to their question.

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Speaker 4: Maybe weren't sure about the difference, right, Like, what's the

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Speaker 4: difference between something being chaotic and something being random?

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Speaker 1: Right? And so let's drill into that. So let's take,

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Speaker 1: for an example, the roll of a dice. Right, people

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Speaker 1: think of rolling dice as random, but actually it's chaotic,

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Speaker 1: meaning that it's hard to predict, but it is deterministic.

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Speaker 4: Oh what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: If you knew exactly how I threw the dice, like

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Speaker 1: exactly the direction and the spin and all the molecules

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Speaker 1: of the air, then you could treat the moll like

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Speaker 1: the little cannon balls, little particles, and you could model

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Speaker 1: how it rolls, and you could, in theory, predict exactlyactly

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Speaker 1: how the dice rolled every time.

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Speaker 4: Meaning like if if I'm seeing footage of you throwing

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Speaker 4: to die, and like I pause the video just as

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Speaker 4: to die leave your hands, then I could you know

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Speaker 4: where they are. I know which direction they're going, how

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Speaker 4: fast are going. I could run some kind of computer

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Speaker 4: simulation to like follow the die and predict what they're

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Speaker 4: going to do when they bounce off the table and

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Speaker 4: roll around. I could potentially predict what the dye are

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Speaker 4: going to show.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because we're saying that the universe in that

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Speaker 1: case is deterministic, and so you should be able to

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Speaker 1: predict the future given enough information about the setup. Right now,

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Speaker 1: that's a hard problem, and that's why we use dice, right,

438
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: because it's really difficult, and nobody can practically, like bring

439
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: a mini computer into Las Vegas and use that to

440
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: predict who's going to win it Craps, right though in theory,

441
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: In theory, you could if the universe was deterministic but

442
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: very sensitive to exactly how somebody's rolling the dice. Right,

443
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: when you throw the dice at Craps, if you flip

444
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 1: it this way or that way, then it's going to

445
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: bounce slightly differently, and how it's going to hit that

446
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: the felt on the table. It's all very very sensitive,

447
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,959
Speaker 1: and a very small change in how you throw it

448
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: can result in a totally different number. That's what we

449
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: mean by chaos.

450
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,239
Speaker 4: It means that it's like the butterfly effect, right, like

451
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 4: the idea that if you butterfly flaps is wing here,

452
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 4: it's going to have a huge effect, maybe potentially on

453
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 4: the weather and on the other side of the world. Right,

454
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 4: It's like a very sensitive system.

455
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: That's right. The weather is a great example because we

456
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: understand all the processes of weather. I mean, it's hot air,

457
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: it's cold air, it's water. We know that stuff. It's

458
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: pretty simple chemistry. But all together, an entire planet is

459
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 1: really difficult to describe because it's huge and it's really sensitive. Like,

460
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: as you say, a butterfly flapping its wings in China

461
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: could change the way this air flows, which could change

462
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: the way that air flows, which bounces off this building,

463
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 1: which turns into a rainstorm, which collides with this cloud

464
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: and causes a hurricane. Right, it's not true that every

465
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: time a butterfly flaps its wings you get a hurricane.

466
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 4: But sometimes so weather is it's chaotic, but it's not random,

467
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 4: is that what you're saying? That rand Like, if we

468
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: could keep track of every single butterfly in the world

469
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: flapping its wing, we would be able to predict the

470
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 4: weather if we had a giant supercomputer the size of

471
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 4: the Solar System. But since we don't, then weather it

472
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 4: seems random, But actually it's chaotic.

473
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: Exactly, And that's exactly what scientists are trying to do.

474
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: They're building bigger and bigger and faster computers to try

475
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: to simulate more and more of the Earth's atmosphere to

476
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: get better and better predictions of weather. In fact, I

477
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: think like all the top ten supercomputers in the world

478
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: are devoted to that problem, like modeling the weather, because

479
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: it's important. But you're exactly right, it's actually chaotic, meaning

480
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: it's deterministic but really sensitive to exactly how it started.

481
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: But it seems random because it's too difficult for us

482
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 1: to calculate, and principle we should be able to, but

483
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: we can't. Another example is flipping a coin. Right, based

484
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: on how you flip the coin, you should be able

485
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: to model how it spins through the air and how

486
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: it bounces off air molecule and how it hits the

487
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: ground and where it lands right, But it's a difficult problem.

488
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: So we can use it to model randomness to say

489
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: it's kind of like randomness. Really it's just chaotic though, But.

490
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 4: Then if I flip the coin one hundred times, most

491
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 4: likely half of those times will behead and half of

492
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 4: those times will be tails. Right, So where does that

493
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 4: fit into chaos theory? Like why is it predictable on

494
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 4: a statistical basis?

495
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's fascinating that's an emergent phenomenon. Right. That says,

496
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: if you understand the tiny little local laws of physics,

497
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: like the laws of how the particles inside the coin move,

498
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: you should be able to predict some larger effect. And

499
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: it's true, there is a simple or description of that

500
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: larger effect, right, if you understand how these things work.

501
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: So physics works on these layers. Right, you can either

502
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: understand it a very low layer and try to model

503
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: it all the way up to a higher layer, or

504
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: you can just try to get an understanding at a

505
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: higher layer, just the same way. You could say, well,

506
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: I can understand the way canniball flies by modeling all

507
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: the particles inside of it, or you could just use

508
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: F equals M, which treats the whole cannonball like one particle.

509
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: That's just a question of at what layer you're modeling something. Right.

510
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 4: Okay, so a coin is chaotic but not actually random.

511
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: But not actually random yet if the universe is deterministic,

512
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: then a coin is chaotic but not actually random.

513
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, got it, got it.

514
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: But then there's the question of that's the really the

515
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: nugget of the question is is the universe deterministic? You know,

516
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: if you have a particle or a billiard ball or

517
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: a cannonball or whatever, and you understand direction it's going,

518
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: can you predict its future out into infinity? Right?

519
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 5: Right?

520
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: Can you tell exactly what's going to happen?

521
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: But there's so many factors leading up to me tossing

522
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 4: the coin that it's so unpredictable that it's it's it

523
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 4: feels random.

524
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: That's right. And so we have to separate between what's

525
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: practical and what's in theory possible. Okay, anything that's chaotic.

526
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: We're saying, in theory, if you knew enough, you could

527
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: predict it, right, whereas but in practice that we can't.

528
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's.

529
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 4: So it seems. It seems the random number generators and

530
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 4: computers when they try to come up with a random number,

531
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 4: it's not really random, you're saying, it's just an algorithm.

532
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 4: That's chaotic.

533
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: That's right. Computers, by construction are deterministic, right, We've built

534
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: them to be deterministic. Every time you run a program,

535
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: it should give you the same answer if you give

536
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: it the same input, right, right. There's no way for

537
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: computer to do anything but that. It's like a series

538
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: of logic gates, and you know, how it's implemented is

539
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: not important, but you know, it's a system for doing

540
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: deterministic calculations. That's what a computer is. So it's impossible

541
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: for computer to be truly random. All the random number

542
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: generators in your favorite Python code are actually pseudo random

543
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: number generators. They're just chaotic. They take a seed a

544
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: number to start from, and then they spin off of

545
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: that and generate a sequence of numbers. But if you

546
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: give them the same seed twice, they'll generate the same

547
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: sequence of numbers twice.

548
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: Wow. So like if you're playing a video game and

549
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: you're inside of a virtual world, that world is totally

550
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 4: determinat absolutely it's been crunched on by a logical computers.

551
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: Exactly. You do the same move every time. You'll kill

552
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: that boss character every single time. And not even in

553
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: silly games like you know, like punch Out, where the

554
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: guy is totally predictable, but even in more complicated ones.

555
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: You know, if you're in the same world and you

556
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: do the same thing, the same things should happen. Because

557
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: computers are not capable of true randomness.

558
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,720
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Speaker 4: So the question is is our universe like a computer simulation? Right? Like,

622
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 4: the question is is is our universe also being crunched

623
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 4: by a logical computer that can't be random?

624
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: That's right? And for a long time people thought the

625
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: universe was deterministic. I mean, we were able to predict

626
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: the outcome of every experiment. Things were going along really well.

627
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: And then of.

628
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 4: Course we can throw a spaceship and land it on

629
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 4: the moon.

630
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: That's pretty crazy, right, Yeah, that well, that's pretty risky,

631
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's pretty amazing. You have to certainly have

632
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,239
Speaker 1: confidence in our ability to predict the future if you're

633
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: going to get into that cannon ball and get shot

634
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: out into space. Right.

635
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: Well, I remember in Gratz Cloths, in this classic it's

636
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 4: called linear dynamical systems. But I remember in class, this

637
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: guy was so the professor was so cocky. He's like,

638
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 4: of all the technologies that contributed to putting a man

639
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: on the moon, this is the one that made it happen.

640
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Linear algebra.

641
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: I kind of had this linear algebra equation we would

642
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: not be able to put a man in the mood.

643
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 4: And so that's how powerful this idea is, right, Like,

644
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 4: if you can predict f equals in a you can

645
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 4: put a man on the mood.

646
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's exactly right. And it's given us great

647
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: power over our environment. I mean, everything that we have

648
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: is because we have mastered a lot of the laws

649
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: of our environment and then use them and bent them

650
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: to our will to improve our lives. Right, So it

651
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: certainly works, and we rely in every day, every time

652
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: you get into a car or an airplane, you rely

653
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: on it working the same way it did yesterday, right, right, right,

654
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: So that's that's a relief. But it was about one

655
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: hundred years ago when people started seeing things that they

656
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: couldn't explain, and it was quantum mechanics that told us

657
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: that maybe the universe is not deterministic. Maybe these little

658
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: particles don't follow the same rules that like billiard balls

659
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: and basketballs and larger objects follow, and maybe they're not

660
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: even deterministic, meaning you do the same experiment twice with

661
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: tiny particles, you could get different outcomes even if you

662
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: do it exactly the same way.

663
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: And this all came about when people started noticing that

664
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: like light and things had a minimum size, right, Like

665
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 4: light doesn't come in infinitely small bits of light, Like

666
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: there's chunks of light.

667
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, Einstein was looking at some experiments it

668
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: didn't quite make sense, and the only way he could

669
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: explain them was if light came in little packets. And

670
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: that's what quantum means. Quantum means a unit or a packet,

671
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: and so he suggested that maybe light comes in these

672
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: little packets. But then it had all these far reaching consequences,

673
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: you know, about light going through mirrors and through prisms,

674
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: and the way people could understand that was only if

675
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: there were various probabilities for things to happen, and they

676
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: began this whole revolution of quantum mechanics, which then Einstein

677
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: tried to put the brakes on, right, He was like, wait,

678
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: hold on a second, guys, this is crazy talk. There's

679
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: no way the universe works this.

680
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 4: Way, meaning like, this idea of quantum stuff only made

681
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: sense if the universe work based on probabilities, not like deterministically,

682
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 4: you know, you have to describe things with wave functions,

683
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 4: and things aren't really like point particles or kind of

684
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 4: fuzzy things.

685
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: That's exactly the point is that there's this fuzziness in

686
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: the universe and quantum mechanics because there's these minimum sized

687
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: objects and the way they interfere with each other and

688
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: the way the calculations happen. Quantum mechanics predicts that the

689
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: universe is fundamentally random, and it means that, for example,

690
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: you have an electron, you don't know exactly where it is.

691
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: There's a probability distribution that says, most likely it's here,

692
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: maybe it's there, maybe it's somewhere else.

693
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 4: Is it that we can't is it like a randomness,

694
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 4: like we can't know where it is, or that there's

695
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 4: this trade off between like momentum and position.

696
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: Right, that's exactly the right question, and that's exactly what

697
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: people were asking. They looked at these equations and they said, well,

698
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: is it that we can't predict where the electron is,

699
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: like it's totally impossible to predict. Or is it that

700
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: we just don't know where it is that we haven't

701
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: figured it out how to get that information? Right? Does

702
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: the information not exist or do we just not have it?

703
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: And so Einstein is the one who said there must

704
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: be some hidden variable, there must be something that these

705
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: particles are carrying, some piece of information that determines exactly

706
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: what's going to happen to them. But we just don't

707
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: know what it is. Oh I see to him. It

708
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: was crazy to think that you could shoot an electron

709
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: into an experiment twice and get two different answers, but

710
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: that's what appeared to happen. People set up these careful

711
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: experiments where you would shoot a photon one at a time.

712
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: You would shoot photons into an experiment, and every photon

713
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: would do something different, and then as you would accumulate

714
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: a bunch of photons, it would add up to give

715
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: you a distribution that made sense to you, just the

716
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: same way when you flip a coin, you get heads,

717
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: you get tails, you get heads, you get tails. It

718
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: seems random, but eventually it builds up to fifty to fifty. Right.

719
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics tells us all we can do is predict

720
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: the eventual distribution. We can say, if you measure a

721
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: thousand electrons, some of them will go here and some

722
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: of them will go there. It says you can't predict

723
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: any individual one. All you can predict is the distribution

724
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: of outcomes.

725
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 4: So eistin was like, maybe a photon is kind of

726
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 4: like the coin we were talking about before, Like maybe

727
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 4: it seems random to us, but really it's just kind

728
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: of this chain of little local events that actually make

729
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 4: it predictable. That's right, if we knew all that information inside,

730
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 4: Like maybe it just looks fuzzy to us and we

731
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 4: can't tell where it is, but inside that part of

732
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 4: really actually knows where it is.

733
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: It's exactly right.

734
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 4: That's what he wanted to believe, right.

735
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: That's what he wanted to believe, And you got to

736
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: sympathize with the guy. Right, it's hard to imagine that

737
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: the universe would not be deterministic. I mean, we spent

738
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: hundreds of years building up our confidence in science and

739
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: in physics, especially as being able to predict the future,

740
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: and just of saying, basically, the universe follows rules. Right,

741
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: So now all of a sudden, you're telling us, what

742
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: there's like dice in there?

743
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 5: Right?

744
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: Is there some randomness? Like every time you shoot an

745
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: electronic experiment, somebody or something or the universe is making

746
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: like a random decision about where it's going to go.

747
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: It seems crazy. So you're absolutely right. And he suggested

748
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: that a simpler explanation is that they're carrying along another

749
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: piece of information that we just don't have access to,

750
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: or can't measure or didn't measure, and that that's actually

751
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: determining in a totally predictable way what's going to happen

752
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: to each particle. That was his solution to the problem.

753
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 4: Well, he famously said God doesn't play dice, right.

754
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: Famously quoted as saying that I'm not sure he actually did,

755
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: but it's oh, it's really but it's a pretty good

756
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: summary of what he believed fake news about hindsight, Well,

757
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: like a lot of fake news is a kernel of

758
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: truth in it. He certainly wanted to believe in the

759
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: deterministic universe and it made sense to him. And you

760
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: know what it makes sense to me. I mean the

761
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: idea that there's like a true random number generator somewhere

762
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: in the universe that's making a decision every time you

763
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: shoot an electron into something. It doesn't make any sense

764
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: to me intuitively. You know, not that the universe has

765
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: to make sense to me intuitively, but it doesn't.

766
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 4: So you're saying, the quantum mechanics says that there is

767
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 4: a randomness in things, and so where is that randomness

768
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 4: actually in like the position of particles, in their velocity,

769
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: in their like very being, in their energy level. Is

770
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 4: this randomness of everything?

771
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: Well, there's randomness at every level. I mean there's randomness

772
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: between every time you look at something. So say, for example,

773
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: you measure an electron, you see it's a certain place,

774
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: then you look away, right, because you can't monitor an

775
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: electron every moment or every nanosecond even you look away,

776
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: what does the electron do between when you last saw

777
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: it and when you'll next see it?

778
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 4: Meaning like, if I know where it is and how

779
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 4: fast it's going, and then I look away and I

780
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 4: look again, is it going to be where I think

781
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 4: it's going to be?

782
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. And so every moment of an electron or

783
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 1: a particle's life is determined by quantum mechanics, which says

784
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: this is a probability distribution. It's not like the electron

785
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: is doing something behind your back. It's got one particular

786
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: path that you're just not aware of behind your back,

787
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: and you just don't know it. It doesn't have a

788
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: specific path. It's not like it goes from A to

789
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: B via a particular path. It has a probability of

790
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 1: different ways to get there. WHOA And if you don't look,

791
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: then it's sort of doing all of them at once.

792
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: They all have different probabilities, and those probabilities are the

793
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 1: things determined by the laws of physics. So there still

794
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: are laws. Physics still does tell the universe how to run.

795
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: It's just that those laws are probabilistic. It says, look,

796
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: mister electron, instead of telling you exactly where you're going

797
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 1: to go, I'm going to say you have a seventy

798
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: percent chance of doing this and a thirty percent chance

799
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: of doing that.

800
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 4: So that's where the fuzziness and the randomness comes in.

801
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 4: It's not that it like, it looks fuzzy, it's just

802
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: that it's just hard to predict where it's going to be.

803
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: It's impossible.

804
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 4: I mean, you know all this information, it's impossible.

805
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: It's impossible to predict the future. Impossible exactly. You can

806
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: predict the various likelihood of this or the likelihood of

807
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: that at the particle level, but you can't say what

808
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: one particle is going to do. Wow, Now Einstein said,

809
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 1: that's crazy, right, There's no way that's true. There must

810
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: be a way to predict it must be there there's

811
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: some piece of information there. And then some guys came

812
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: up with an experiment. They came up with this crazy experiment.

813
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: It's based on an idea called Bell's inequality. To test

814
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: this theory, they said, let's see if the universe is

815
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: really random, or if there's some hidden piece of information

816
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: that's actually secretly determining things.

817
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: Like let's see if if I really can't predict where

818
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 4: that electron is going to go, or if it's actually

819
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 4: like the electron knows, it just won't tell.

820
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: Us, yeah, right, exactly. And so they set up this

821
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: cool experiment where they took a particle and they had

822
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: to shoot out two particles in opposite directions. And those

823
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: particles are therefore connected because they have to conserve momentum

824
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: and they have to conserve energy and have to conserve spin.

825
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: And so if you know something about one particle, then

826
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: you know something about the other particle. But both particles

827
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 1: have equal probability to be like spin up or spin down,

828
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: or point this way, a point the other way. But

829
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: you know something about the combination of the two. And

830
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: so they came up with this really ingenious experiment to

831
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: measure how often you saw one spin up and one

832
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: spin down, for example, and based on the outcome of that,

833
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: you could tell whether there was a secret, hidden piece

834
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: of information that was controlling both particles, or whether they

835
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: were both truly random. And the experiments are conclusive, and

836
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: it's been done as zillion times, and the experiment tells

837
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: us that the universe at its core really is random.

838
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: It's making a random decision every time you look at

839
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: these particles.

840
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 4: So beyond the shadow of a doubt, we know that

841
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 4: the universe is random.

842
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: The universe is random absolutely.

843
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 4: There's no.

844
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: There's no escape clause, there's no if hands or butts,

845
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: there's no there's no loopholes. The universe at the particle

846
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: level is really random. Now, you said something really interesting earlier.

847
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: You know, even if the universe is random at the

848
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: lowest level, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's random at

849
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: other levels, right, Like we still got to the moon. Right.

850
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: It's not like we're saying science doesn't work or you

851
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: shouldn't get in that airplane. Right. Science works at at

852
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: different levels. And even if it's random at the very

853
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: very small level, doesn't mean that on average it's really predictable, right, Like,

854
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: we do know how basketballs bounce, right, And that's because

855
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: the randomness only applies to these tiny little particles, and

856
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: over the ten to the thirty or whatever particles and

857
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: a basketball, that all averages out to something very very predictable.

858
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 4: Wow, So like random events Canada add up to predictable events?

859
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 4: Is that kind of what you're saying?

860
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like you can't tell how any individual voter

861
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: is going to vote, but if you've done enough polls

862
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: you can tell you know how the nation is going

863
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: to vote at a certain election.

864
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 4: That worked out so well in the twenty sixteen election.

865
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that wasn't the best.

866
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 4: Example totally predictable. At the level of particles, there is randomness,

867
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 4: but maybe in the macroscale things are fairly predictable. Yeah,

868
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 4: but how does that affect things like free will? Does

869
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 4: that mean that, like my brain, does quantum randomness give

870
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 4: me some sort of unpredictability or free will as you

871
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 4: might call it, Or is my brain also very predictable

872
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 4: in the long run.

873
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: It's a great question, and into this tiny crack in determinism,

874
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, saying that at the particle level things are

875
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: truly random, and there's flooded and enormous literature of consciousness

876
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: and all sorts of philosophy that try to connect free

877
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: will to quantum randomness, you know, to say that this

878
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: is the whole we needed, This is what breaks determinism

879
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: and allows for me and my soul and God and

880
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: all the and and all the things you want to

881
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: cram into your universe. Right, I'm not convinced that quantum

882
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: mechanics allows for free will, or for souls or you know,

883
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: for all that kind of stuff, but it certainly does

884
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: dismantle the deterministic watchlike universe that we thought we had.

885
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: M So, just because something is random doesn't mean you

886
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 4: have free will.

887
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: Like it's just random, yeah, exactly, exactly. And so to

888
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: answer the question, you know, is the universe random or

889
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: is it chaotic? Turns out it's kind of both. Right,

890
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: It's random at the particle level, but it's chaotic at

891
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: the macroscopic level. Right. Things do seem to be fairly

892
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: deterministic at the macroscopic level, but then again they're too

893
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: chaotic to really to really model. So it's not like

894
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: you can predict the weather.

895
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 4: It's kind of a progression. Like it's random at the

896
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 4: particle level, it's kind of deterministic at a medium range level,

897
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 4: but then as you get to larger and larger systems,

898
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 4: then it's chaotic and it's practically unpredictable.

899
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So any answer you want there's

900
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: some place in the universe.

901
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 4: Is yeah, I just pick a random, random answer and

902
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 4: it will be.

903
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: So maybe that's why people answered it's such a such

904
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: streams of gibberish to our question, because because they really

905
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: deeply understood that the universe was both random and chaotic.

906
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 4: Wow, wisdom of the crowd.

907
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: Wisdom of the crowd. Exactly, you average over ten random

908
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: people and there is some insight. Yeah, exactly. That's the

909
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: whole that's the whole problem.

910
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 4: The answer is the answer is yes.

911
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's fun to think about that

912
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: in ste of the larger context. You know, like we

913
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: started off thinking the universe was crazy, then we started

914
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: to get some grips on it. Then we felt like, oh,

915
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: maybe the universe is sort of too tight a grip

916
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: on us because it seems deterministic, and they we've got

917
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: this crack thanks to quantum mechanics that says it's random.

918
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: But I don't really know how comfortable people are with

919
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: that crack, you know, to think that the universe doesn't

920
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: know what it's going to do at any moment, like

921
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: they could do this, it could do that. That's sort

922
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: of terrifying. I stand Einstein's fear. That Einstein's dislike or

923
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: disdain for that, and that leaves us in a sort

924
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: of uncomfortable position.

925
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 4: And it might get even crazier, right, Like, let's say

926
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: that we build quantum computers and then there's AI based

927
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: on quantum computers. That that would be even crazier.

928
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I'd love to read that science fiction novel

929
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: that's that's how AI develops free will, Right.

930
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 4: Quantum computers maybe more than us, That's exactly right. All right, Well,

931
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 4: thank you for joining us. I hope that didn't seem

932
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 4: like a random, random or chaotic discussion.

933
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: But those are really fun topics. I think it's super

934
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: fun to try to wrap your mind around those things.

935
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the basic questions of physics

936
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: is not just what is the world made out or

937
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: what are the bits and pieces? But like what are

938
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: the rules? And are there rules? And and you know,

939
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: can we ever understand it? To me, that's one of

940
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: the deepest questions of science, and this goes right to

941
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: the heart of it.

942
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 4: So if you're a butterfly out there, keep on flam exactly.

943
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

944
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to

945
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Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

946
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947
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