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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And this kicks off one of

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Speaker 1: two Halloween themed episodes that we're doing this year. And

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Speaker 1: in this installment, we're going to talk about costumes. But

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Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about sexy costumes. Now, we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about racist costumes. People. Yeah, we sometimes

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Speaker 1: take a turn for the sexy and racist. If you can. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you can get both of those in one, you

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Speaker 1: become a terrible Halloween costumes stereotype. Yes, And this is

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Speaker 1: a listener request that came from Facebook and it got

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Speaker 1: a lot of likes, so we said, hey, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about this costume issue because Caroline, I remember distinctly when

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Speaker 1: I was in college, it was how loween and you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody was out and I saw a guy dressed up

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Speaker 1: as a member of the Taliban and he was in

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Speaker 1: brown face and it was appalling. I mean, like, obviously

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Speaker 1: he was trying to make a terrible nine eleven joke

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Speaker 1: and being horribly racist about it. And that was my

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Speaker 1: first direct experience with the racist Halloween costume. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm usually myself. I'm usually some sort of female cartoon character.

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Speaker 1: I've I've been uh April O'Neil, and I've been Leela

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Speaker 1: from Futrauma. But no, I can't say I've ever been

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Speaker 1: something like a member of a particular culture. That's a

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Speaker 1: really good thing, because it happens a lot, and it's

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Speaker 1: become this issue where it's almost the annual conversation of

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Speaker 1: Halloween goes either the route of are women's costumes so

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Speaker 1: super duper sexy? Or what's up with all of these

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Speaker 1: racially insensitive and flat out racist and cultural appropriation ng

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Speaker 1: costumes gone on? Yeah? And I mean, I think it's

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Speaker 1: good that we're talking about this, because it seems like

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Speaker 1: the overwhelming response anytime you see anything online or hear

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Speaker 1: about it on the radio or anywhere, people's overwhelming response

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Speaker 1: tends to be, oh, get over yourselves, right, why are

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Speaker 1: you so politically correct? Come on, like, my family didn't

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Speaker 1: n slaves. I mean, it's like this, this whole, very expected,

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Speaker 1: predictable argument that people make for being able to wear

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Speaker 1: very culturally insensitive costumes, right, as though Halloween is some

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Speaker 1: special day where not only did children get candy, but

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Speaker 1: adults can get a free pass for wearing black face

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Speaker 1: if they're white. UM So, in case you were wondering

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Speaker 1: some examples of cost him that are not okay, the

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Speaker 1: the blogs The Root and color Lines did a large roundup,

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Speaker 1: and this first one I actually saw a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago when I was shopping for a costume for

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Speaker 1: a stuff I've never told you video. It's the ghetto

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Speaker 1: fab wig, the oversized afro, And it stopped me at

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Speaker 1: my tracks when I was shopping because not only is

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Speaker 1: it called the ghetto fab wig, but it was also

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Speaker 1: a white woman modeling it. Yeah, I when I was

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Speaker 1: when I saw that online, that picture that uh, that wig.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why they couldn't Why did they have

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Speaker 1: to call it ghetto fabulous? You know? Like part of

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Speaker 1: the issue was the naming, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: point the sound some of these blogs where it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you have, um a a wig ahead of hair

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Speaker 1: that is like more traditionally African American, but you're naming

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Speaker 1: it something like ghetto fabulous, tacking the fabulous on as

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Speaker 1: supposed to make it okay or what exactly? Um Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of the hair issue, they're also gangster braids which

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Speaker 1: look like Coolio on the cover of that album they

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Speaker 1: do from a long time ago, they um. And then

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Speaker 1: there's the one that I have not seen before, but

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Speaker 1: it's called Bighood of Fat Tribal Tiki Warrior, which might

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Speaker 1: sound hilarious but yet again, no, you're putting on the

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Speaker 1: costume of a Samoan man, right. Yeah. And then you

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Speaker 1: have one that is terrible and I've seen several inexplicably

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Speaker 1: several iterations of this, which is the illegal alien commentary

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Speaker 1: on immigration. Uh. And usually it's like an a literal

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Speaker 1: like alien like from outer space face with either a

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Speaker 1: mustache or one particularly horrendous one had a like prison uniform,

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Speaker 1: an orange prison uniform. Yeah. Similarly to that, you have

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Speaker 1: the hay amigo, where it's just the typical simbro poncho

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Speaker 1: oversized mustach. I should get up. And then there are

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Speaker 1: chop suey glasses with your glasses that you can wear

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Speaker 1: that have eyes already in them that are slanted unlike yours.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, what are you doing? Right? And then of

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Speaker 1: course the Japanese geisha, which is chuck full of meaning

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Speaker 1: that we will talk about as we go on, but

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Speaker 1: just the whole as we will talk about also the

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Speaker 1: appropriation of other people's cultures, shrinking them down into something

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Speaker 1: kind of cheap and tawdry for one night of entertainment

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Speaker 1: and drinking, and then you get to go back to

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Speaker 1: being your privileged self the next day. Exactly. Um So, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned how a lot of times when this conversation

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Speaker 1: of racial and cultural appropriation in Halloween costumes comes up,

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Speaker 1: the typical refrain from white people we have to just

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Speaker 1: say flat out because that's who it's coming from a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, is you are being way too politically incorrect.

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Speaker 1: Can it just stop at some point? Can we just

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Speaker 1: have one night? I mean, it's not like I own slaves, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and those arguments are are kind of ridiculous when

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Speaker 1: you I mean, let's just take a moment. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: the whole argument of I didn't own slaves or my

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Speaker 1: family didn't do that or whatever, Like, let's just think

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Speaker 1: back a minute through our nation's history and the fact

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people seem to just want to

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Speaker 1: forget what happened in this country with slavery. And so

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Speaker 1: when you fast fast forward to Halloween and people wanting

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Speaker 1: to adopt costumes that mock African Americans or just Africans. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not okay, and your your joke that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to make is not funny. Yeah. Leslie Pica, who

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Speaker 1: is the associate professor of sociology at the University of

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Speaker 1: Dayton in Ohio, told the Route that when it comes

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Speaker 1: to just wanting to make those jokes, hey, we're just

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Speaker 1: kidding around about some stereotypes, she says, it's especially insidious

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Speaker 1: because it shuts down future conversations about the real, very

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Speaker 1: unfunny issues, because oh, you're just making a joke out

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Speaker 1: of it, right, And so it puts the blame on

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Speaker 1: the person who's offended instead of the person who's doing

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Speaker 1: the offended. And so you know, if I if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're wearing a costume or or doing anything or

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Speaker 1: saying something that I find offensive, suddenly I'm the bad

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Speaker 1: guy because I'm offended because you're saying something about me

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Speaker 1: or my culture or my background or whatever. Um, And

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Speaker 1: that does, like, like uh, pick Us says, it does

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Speaker 1: shut down the conversation because it's like, well, if you're

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Speaker 1: just gonna make me feel doubly bad, then I don't

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Speaker 1: even want to have this conversation with you. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: in the process of that, there's this factor of normalizing

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Speaker 1: whiteness that scholars talk about in terms of how those

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Speaker 1: racial and ethnic lampooning costumes only reinforced inaccurate ideas about

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Speaker 1: totally distinct racial and cultural communities because you are boiling

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Speaker 1: down all of the different variations or different ethnicities, different languages,

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Speaker 1: different traditions into one hilariously stereotypical costume. Yeah, and you're

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Speaker 1: just pretending that real people are fictional characters. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to dress up like a person, like

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Speaker 1: a politician, like a character out of stories or mythology.

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Speaker 1: It's another thing to dress up as Mexican guy or

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Speaker 1: Geisha girl things like that, because then you are you're taking,

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Speaker 1: you know, a whole entire culture with all of its

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Speaker 1: facets and varied elements, and you're reducing it too, Like

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Speaker 1: I said, something kind of cheap and tawdry. And speaking

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Speaker 1: of cheap and tawdry, I hate that we even have

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Speaker 1: to address the fact that black face still happens routinely

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Speaker 1: in Halloween costumes. And I please, I really hope that

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Speaker 1: there isn't a listener out there who thinks that oh

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe. Is that okay? Is that just? I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on, that's okay? Right now, we've all seen that

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Speaker 1: Designing Women episode, right, which one is that? Just me?

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Speaker 1: The Designing Women episode where they want to I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's a charity function, but the girls want

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Speaker 1: to perform at a at a charity event maybe and

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Speaker 1: they're going to perform as the supremes. Well, so they

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Speaker 1: decided to just dress up in the fancy glittery gowns

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Speaker 1: with feather bows or whatever. But Delta Berke's character gets

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Speaker 1: it into her head that she is going to wear

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Speaker 1: black face, and they won't let her on stage because

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Speaker 1: because that's horrible, because that's ridiculous. Yeah. David Leonard, who

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Speaker 1: is the associate professor and chair of the Department of

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Speaker 1: Critical Culture and Gender and Race Studies at Washington State University,

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Speaker 1: said that black face is quote a part of history

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Speaker 1: of demonization, mothering, denying humanity, and imagining blackness through racist caricatures.

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Speaker 1: Just just say no, people, yeah, and you're not by

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Speaker 1: by dressing up in this way, you're really not honoring anyone,

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Speaker 1: You're not celebrating a culture. You are failing at being ironic,

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Speaker 1: Like none of this, none of this is a joke.

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Speaker 1: But what if someone says, well, hey, listen, my my

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Speaker 1: black friends don't mind, my Indian friends, don't mind my

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Speaker 1: Asian friends. You know, there are people who say that too.

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Speaker 1: Of like they they're not uncomfortable, but you are still

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Speaker 1: dressing up as that character or that person or that

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Speaker 1: cultural stereotype from a position of privilege, a different position,

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Speaker 1: a position of other and so from that position you

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Speaker 1: are still able to offend a whole lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Just because your friend, your black friend, or your Asian

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Speaker 1: friend or whoever, says that they're not bothered by it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that a whole host of others are not. Well.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like, in the same way that wearing

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Speaker 1: those costumes collapses an entire ethnicity into that one stereotype.

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Speaker 1: Relying on maybe that one friend opinion sort of does

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Speaker 1: the same thing of collapsing it all into one person.

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Speaker 1: But it's also convenience. I think it's laziness. I think

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Speaker 1: you know, when you say, oh, my one black friend

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Speaker 1: is okay with me wearing black face, I think you

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Speaker 1: know that that's sort of a lazy excuse and a

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Speaker 1: lazy way to you know, be able to wear this

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Speaker 1: dumb costume that you're committed to wearing for some reason. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I liked how Leonard said that. Listen, we aren't living

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Speaker 1: in some sort of post racial by referendum society, because

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is, while jokes are great,

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Speaker 1: humor is fantastic, racism is obviously still alive and well

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Speaker 1: when you look at things like the criminal justice gap,

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Speaker 1: poverty and education gaps, stopping frisk policies, controversy over voter

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Speaker 1: id laws, there's a lot of stuff that has been

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Speaker 1: in the news this past year that's clear evidence that

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Speaker 1: we are not living in some post racial utopia. It

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Speaker 1: would be great if we were, but we aren't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not. And people are still being judged by the

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Speaker 1: way they look. I mean, a friend of mine was

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Speaker 1: just telling me that his son walked up to the

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Speaker 1: teacher to turn in an assignment early in high school

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Speaker 1: and the teacher looks at him and it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you don't look like the type to turn in an

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Speaker 1: assignment early. Yes, And my friend and his son are

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Speaker 1: African Americans, so we're we're definitely not in any sort

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Speaker 1: of safe post racial zone. No. And if you if

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Speaker 1: you want evidence too of that. Chescale is a prominent

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Speaker 1: YouTube vlogger, and she did a video on costume fails

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Speaker 1: about this kind of racial and cultural appropriation in costumes,

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Speaker 1: and and if you just go on that video and

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Speaker 1: read through the comments section, actually just don't do it.

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Speaker 1: Never read the comment If you have blood pressure issues,

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Speaker 1: don't read the comments. But the evidence is right there

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Speaker 1: in the anger that people have of just watching this

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Speaker 1: one video of someone saying intelligently, Hey, I would really

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Speaker 1: appreciate it if you didn't wear black face this year.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to for instance, chet Gale video, there

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Speaker 1: are other people who are starting awareness campaigns about this

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff too, including a group of students at

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Speaker 1: Ohio University. Yeah. Their their group is called Students Teaching

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Speaker 1: Against Racism in Society or STARS, and they launched a

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Speaker 1: campaign a few years back called We're a Culture, Not

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Speaker 1: a Costume. You've probably seen these posters around floating around

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Speaker 1: the Internet. You've also probably seen the really jerky um

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Speaker 1: meme versions making fun of them. But basically it's pictures

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Speaker 1: of kids um from different ethnicities holding pictures or next

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Speaker 1: to pictures of people in costume imitating their ethnicity. So

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Speaker 1: there's an Asian girl next to someone dressed up as

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Speaker 1: a geisha, you know, or there is an African American

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Speaker 1: girl next year picture of someone in black faith. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and when I first saw these a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and they're really powerful because it does put what we're

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Speaker 1: talking to in two visual perspective. But yet again, if

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Speaker 1: you want evidence that there is still a problem, that

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Speaker 1: this is a valid point for us to talk about,

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Speaker 1: are the those meme responses that blew up in these

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Speaker 1: kids faces where you have, uh, a mocking thing of

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Speaker 1: a picture of a dog next to a costume of

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Speaker 1: a person dressed up like a dog, right right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And uh. Writer Whitney over at Auto Straddle talks about this.

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Speaker 1: She is Asian and she was sort of taken aback,

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Speaker 1: you could say, by the response that these kids got

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Speaker 1: for their campaign. And she discusses what we mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: which is that, you know, the problem with these racial

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Speaker 1: stereotypes is that you from a position of privilege and

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Speaker 1: other get to take the costume off and you're not

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Speaker 1: worried so much about you know, stereotypes getting frisked for

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Speaker 1: no reason things like that, But people who are minorities

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Speaker 1: ethnic minorities cannot do that, and so she says that

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Speaker 1: the resonance of everything from a geisha to a terrorist

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Speaker 1: stereotype persists long after the end of October, basically saying,

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Speaker 1: and the kids who started this, uh, this poster campaign,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of saying the same thing, which is that

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Speaker 1: every time images like this are perpetuated, you know, people

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Speaker 1: in cartoony geisha costumes, people in black face, it perpetuates

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Speaker 1: the day to day stereotypes to the act will humans

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Speaker 1: have to live with? Right? And the fact of the

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Speaker 1: matter two is I think you mentioned the Award laziness earlier.

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Speaker 1: It was like saying these kinds of things is not

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Speaker 1: an attempt to take the fun out of Halloween. Halloween

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Speaker 1: is so much fun. Halloween is one of my favorite holidays,

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Speaker 1: even though I usually leave by costumes until the last

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Speaker 1: minute and I end up looking like a hot mess.

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Speaker 1: But that's part of the fun of it. And part

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Speaker 1: of the fun of it too, is trying to be

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Speaker 1: creative because there are so many options out there, Like

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Speaker 1: why you would feel so compelled to have to dress

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Speaker 1: up as a Pocahontas like princess in a buckskin costume?

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Speaker 1: You got it Halloween expressed, No, you don't know, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to. Well, I mean exactly that, speaking of

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Speaker 1: the pocahonest princess, I mean that things like that, Costumes

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Speaker 1: like that are a huge, huge market that the sexy

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Speaker 1: lady costumes. You know, everything from the sexy cheeseburger to

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Speaker 1: the sexy nurse. But you also have the double terrible

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Speaker 1: of playing off of racial and ethnic stereotypes in addition

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Speaker 1: to sexualizing yourself and sexualizing that entire ethnic group. Um,

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Speaker 1: the geisha again is a perfect example, uh, the Indian princess.

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Speaker 1: And one of these blogs points out the fact that

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Speaker 1: when you dress up like an Indian princess or a

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Speaker 1: sexy Eskimo, you're ignoring the facts of sexual abuse that

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Speaker 1: Native women in America face. One in three are raped,

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Speaker 1: and seventy of the sexual violence against Native American women

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Speaker 1: is by non Native men. So the more you perpetuate

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Speaker 1: these not only sexy stereotypes, but the stereotypes of submissiveness

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Speaker 1: and you know, constant sexual availability, you are not helping matters. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the whole factor of fetishizing the other,

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Speaker 1: the exotic. Oh look at these these otherworldly creatures where

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Speaker 1: they just turn in so quickly to objects that you

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Speaker 1: can pursue at your leisure, which is which is not right. Um,

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Speaker 1: But moving away from Halloween a little bit, we've used

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Speaker 1: the term appropriation number of times already. What are we

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Speaker 1: really talking about, though, nuts and bolts wise, when we're

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Speaker 1: talking about appropriation, because this is not just something that

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Speaker 1: happens in the Halloween costumes that we might choose to wear. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we will talk about what appropriation means on a

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Speaker 1: bigger scale, right, And we get back from a quick break,

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Speaker 1: and now back to the podcast where we're talking about

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Speaker 1: cultural appropriation beyond Halloween costumes. Right, So let's look look

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Speaker 1: at the definition from Fordham University law professors Susan Skiffiti,

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Speaker 1: who wrote the book Who Owns Culture, Appropriation and Authenticity

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Speaker 1: in American Law. She says that while it is very

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Speaker 1: complicated and complex, it's basically taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge,

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Speaker 1: cultural expression, or artifacts from someone else's culture without permission.

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Speaker 1: This can include the unauthorized use of another culture's dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine,

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Speaker 1: traditional medicine, religious symbols, et cetera. And she says it's

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Speaker 1: most likely to be harmful when the source community is

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Speaker 1: a minority group that has been oppressed or exploited in

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Speaker 1: other ways, or when the object of appropriation is particularly sensitive,

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Speaker 1: such as sacred objects. And so I know that she

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Speaker 1: and therefore I just listed a lot of things, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, well, what does I mean. I can't make

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Speaker 1: spaghetti because that's Italian food, right right, Candy, calm down.

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Speaker 1: A lot of this has to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: this discussion about cultural appropriation and appropriating other people's beliefs,

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Speaker 1: way of dressing religious items, all this stuff. It's about respect,

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Speaker 1: and it's about the way that you obtain these things

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Speaker 1: and about the way you use them exactly, and joking

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Speaker 1: examples like eating spaghetti, eating sushi, I mean that those

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Speaker 1: are forms of a globalization and also you can interpret

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Speaker 1: it as well as for appreciating the products of other cultures. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like one of the bloggers that we were reading posted

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Speaker 1: about how she likes dream catchers Native American dream catchers,

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Speaker 1: and she's fretting because she's like, well, here I am

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Speaker 1: preaching against cultural appropriation, but am I appropriating them? And

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Speaker 1: she talked to some sociologists, she talked to some actual

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Speaker 1: members of the Native American community, and they hammered home

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Speaker 1: that whole idea of how are you using it? Is

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Speaker 1: it in a respectful way? Do you understand when you

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Speaker 1: purchase a native made item from a Native American individual,

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Speaker 1: do you understand the culture behind it? Do you respect it?

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Speaker 1: Do you appreciate it? You know, it's it's not like

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Speaker 1: it's different if you're Urban Outfitters and their Navajo underwear exactly.

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Speaker 1: And this comes up a lot in fashion and in

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Speaker 1: trends and in how a company like in Urban Outfitters

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Speaker 1: might pluck from a culture, from their handiwork, from their

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Speaker 1: their crafts that they have developed painstakingly, and then slap

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Speaker 1: it on a T shirt and sell it to a

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Speaker 1: bunch of white kids for way too much money. Right.

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Speaker 1: But there's also a difference too between this appropriation and

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Speaker 1: also mythology, and this is something that might be more

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Speaker 1: tied to the Halloween aspect. Yeah, and I mean speaking

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Speaker 1: of I mean white kids, I'm not you know, we're

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Speaker 1: not trying to make anybody feel bad about being white necessarily.

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Speaker 1: It's just that white quote unquote white Caucasians, Uh, we

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Speaker 1: are the dominant culture here. White people, white Europeans came

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Speaker 1: to this country we colonized this country and pretty much

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Speaker 1: forced our culture onto everyone else, So is it too

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Speaker 1: much to ask for a little cultural sensitivity? Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and also in the process obviously of colonizing this country,

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Speaker 1: there was a bit of genocide involved in that. And

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Speaker 1: in the words of my culture is not a trend tumbler.

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Speaker 1: You can't appropriate the dominant, especially if it was forced

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Speaker 1: upon you. The term just doesn't apply because of the

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Speaker 1: power imbalance. Yeah, so that's an answer too. Well, what

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Speaker 1: about if you're appropriating my whiteness, like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't wear polo shirts? And it's like all right, y'all.

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Speaker 1: But there was one thing that came up in the

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Speaker 1: discussion of Halloween costumes, of the white trash stereotype, which

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Speaker 1: I say is also no, no, don't do that. You're also,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're saying hideous statements about other people as

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Speaker 1: well who are of a different socioeconomic status or Southern

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Speaker 1: just Southern in general. Oh, I can't tell you how often,

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Speaker 1: as someone who grew up in the South lives in

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Speaker 1: the South, still, I'm commonly frustrated by portrayals of Southern people.

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Speaker 1: It is frustrating to see often Hollywood portrayals of being Southern,

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Speaker 1: or Halloween portrayals of being Southern as being incredibly stereotypical,

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Speaker 1: as if we're all just inbreeding idiots for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better phrasing, not not eloquent podcast ors as some

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Speaker 1: of us all. You know, But what are a few

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Speaker 1: non Halloween examples of appropriation, just to just to round

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Speaker 1: out this podcast, Caroline, Yeah, Well, I mean we did

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Speaker 1: dig up a lot of great examples of terrible stuff

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Speaker 1: when looking at Native American cultural appropriation. One huge when

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Speaker 1: they got a lot of attention in a really weak, pointless,

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Speaker 1: stupid apology was when Carly Class walked down the Victoria's

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Speaker 1: Secret runway wearing a massive head dress. Yeah. Over the

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Speaker 1: Native Appropriations blog, Adrian K writes that playing Indian has

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Speaker 1: a long history in the United States, all the way

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Speaker 1: back to those original tea party years in Boston, and

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Speaker 1: in no way is it better than minstrel shows or

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Speaker 1: dressing up in black face. You're collapsing distinct cultures and

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Speaker 1: doing so, you're a serting your power over them. Is

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Speaker 1: that power issue over and over and over again. And

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Speaker 1: laziness too, because you're showing you don't care right, You're

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Speaker 1: you're wearing this headdress which is traditional you know, regalia

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Speaker 1: in various cultures that are foreign to you, and you're

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Speaker 1: just showing that you don't really care about it. And

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Speaker 1: then Victoria's Secret was an offender yet again with its

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Speaker 1: Go East lingerie line that it came out with I

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Speaker 1: think a couple of years back, and it portrayed one blonde,

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Speaker 1: busty model in its gay shaw teddy and she had

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Speaker 1: a little fan and everything as well, and it was

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Speaker 1: quickly removed from the website because as soon as some

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Speaker 1: Asian bloggers picked up on it and expressed some outrage,

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Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret yet again tried to cover up their trail.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not anti underwear. And someone else who was

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Speaker 1: definitely not anti underwear was one of the commenters under

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Speaker 1: the story about this Go East sexy Geisha underwear. This

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Speaker 1: guy was like, you know, all these people have been saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're too politically correct, you know, get off of it,

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Speaker 1: you're too sensitive. And this guy comes on and he's like,

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Speaker 1: you think he's about to defend the blogger for for

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Speaker 1: thinking the costumes terrible, but instead his comment is like, well, I,

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Speaker 1: for one, when I see a Geisha costume, fully expect

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Speaker 1: to see an Asian woman. Come on, who wants to

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Speaker 1: see a blonde woman in a Geisha costume? And you're like,

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Speaker 1: my brain, it is breaking, And it broke Nina Jacento's

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Speaker 1: brain over racial issious as well, she said that it's

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Speaker 1: just another example of taking a culture and stripping it

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Speaker 1: of its realness in order to fulfill fantasies of a

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Speaker 1: safe and non threatening, mysterious East. And similarly to that

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Speaker 1: point on native appreparations about playing Indian in its long

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Speaker 1: history of another fashion blogger and Cornell University academic, Minha

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Speaker 1: fam said that playing Oriental in quotes can be traced

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Speaker 1: back to nineteen hundreds vaudeville stages. We're playing out fantasies

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Speaker 1: of racial exoticism as a way of dealing with racial

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Speaker 1: anxieties was a wildly popular cultural activity. And she also

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Speaker 1: is one of these people who says, and also it's

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Speaker 1: just a glaring example of laziness. Is this really what

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Speaker 1: we're doing? You know, we have all these resources, all

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Speaker 1: this creativity, all these cool things that we could be doing.

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Speaker 1: Are we really just going to harp on that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I I do think I do think it's a good

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Speaker 1: point to bring up that it really is dealing with

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Speaker 1: anxieties and making something that you don't know about completely

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Speaker 1: one dimensional. Yeah, completely, not only taking away its otherness

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Speaker 1: and installing this like exoticism onto it, but just not

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Speaker 1: even trying. I mean, correct me listeners if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: and you have done a lot of research about Geisha

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Speaker 1: culture or or any other culture out there. But it

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Speaker 1: does seem to be a lazy form of entertainment for

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Speaker 1: privileged people who think that because they are in a

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Speaker 1: position of power and that we are in some sort

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00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: of post racial utopia, that they can just dress up

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00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: in blackface or a Geisha costume and call it a day.

427
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: And let me underscore the fact that we are not

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00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: anti sexy costume in this podcast. This has nothing to

429
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: do with the amount of skin that you want to

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00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: show on Halloween. If you want to be a sexy Hamburg,

431
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: you be that sexy Hamburger. But rather if you are

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00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: thinking about pretending to be someone from another ethnicity, I

433
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: think twice, please, well, do you know what you're gonna

434
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: be for Halloween? I think I am going to be

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00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg because I have everything

436
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: I need for it. I think I am going to

437
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 1: be a silent movie star. Yeah. I really liked your

438
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: idea for that. And you don't have to talk to

439
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: anyone all night if you don't want to hold up

440
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: cue cards that say give me another vod catanic exactly.

441
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: And if you are looking for Halloween costumes, I am

442
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: going to shamelessly plug the stuff mon Never Told You

443
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: video five feminist Halloween costume ideas that does include my

444
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: Ruth Bader Ginsburg, which you've seen the picture Caroline fantastic.

445
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: It's pretty good, I gotta say so. You can head

446
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: over to YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never Told

447
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: Told You and check that out. And we want to

448
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: hear what you're gonna be for Halloween as well, and

449
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: what you think about our conversation about racial appropriation and Halloween.

450
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: And if you're listening to this after Halloween and you

451
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: saw some horrible violations of everything we've been talking about,

452
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: let it all out to us vent mom Stuff at

453
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com, or you can also head over to

454
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: Facebook or tweet us SEP mom Stuff podcast. And we

455
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: got a couple of letters to share with you when

456
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break and now

457
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: back to our letters. So I've got let her here

458
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: from Heather about our endometriosis podcast, and she writes, when

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00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: I was thirty three, I began to experience intense pain

460
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: during my menstrual cycle. It was so bad that I

461
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: would feel like I was being stabbed in either my

462
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: lower back or my right lower front, almost like appendicitis.

463
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: It would be so intense that I would get lightheaded

464
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: and feel nauseous or vomit every single month. But I

465
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: always went in for my annual PAP smears and PELP exams,

466
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: and each one would come back with a clean bill

467
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: of health. Even though I was in my early thirties

468
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: not a teenager. My O b G, y N s

469
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: were women, and I knew that there had to be

470
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: more going on than just something I had to live with.

471
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: I didn't push the subject because I figured that they

472
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: were the doctors. They had the degrees, so they must

473
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about, and continued suffering for several years.

474
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: Just before my thirty eight birthday, I experienced the worst

475
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: pain I ever felt. The symptoms presented themselves like I

476
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 1: had a pendicitis, and I ended up in the emergency room. Luckily,

477
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: the doctor on call in the er happened to not

478
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: only be an O B G I M, but actually

479
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: taught other doctors how to reform laperscopic hits directomys, which

480
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: I eventually had to have done. Unfortunately, there were so

481
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: many large cysts in both ovaries that she was unable

482
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: to save either. And I have a son, so I

483
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: wasn't concerned about not being able to have another child.

484
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: I later found out that my mom stuffered the same

485
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: thing when she was younger, and my only sister ended

486
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: up having the same symptoms later on that I first

487
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: started having when she was around the same age. The

488
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: doctors were trying to pawn it off on her as

489
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: if it was just a painful period or something she

490
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: was going to have to deal with. We need to

491
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: tell women it's okay to raise their voice if they

492
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: don't feel they're being heard. While doctors do have the degrees,

493
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: we know what is normal and not normal when it

494
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: comes to our bodies. Also, just because your doctor has ovaries,

495
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean they are better at their job than

496
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't. All my doctors were women, and they

497
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: all told me the same thing until I ended up

498
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: in the e er. Keep up the good work ladies.

499
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: Well thanks Heather, and here's wishing you good health. And

500
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Meg, also about our

501
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: endometrius episode. She says, I'm twenty years old and have

502
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: been suffering from chronic period pain and horrific PMS symptoms

503
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: for the last ten years, ever since I got my

504
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: first period at age ten, being on the pill for

505
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: about nine years and trying to manage these symptoms. Like

506
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: many young women, I was too embarrassed to talk to

507
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: my doctor about just how bad it was until about

508
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: five years ago. Despite having been seen by a gynecologist

509
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: for many years prior, I was only diagnosed by accident

510
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: while having a labor scopy. This was five years ago,

511
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: and because of my age, the doctors were hesitant to

512
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: operate on me for the endometriosis. We tried managing it

513
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: with strongerness at the pill and dietary changes. However, my

514
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: symptoms got so bad that the specialist told me it

515
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: was time to operate. This time last year, I had

516
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: my surgery, and when I came to after my operation,

517
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: my doctor informed me that it was far worse than

518
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: he thought it would be. You are a nineteen year

519
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: old woman with endometriosis worse than I've seen in any

520
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: of my forty year old patients, he said. I am

521
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: now a year down the track and still managing these

522
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: horrific symptoms with only the pill. In a few weeks,

523
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm going back to plead my case to be fitted

524
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: with an i U D in the hopes that this

525
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: will prevent any further damage and hopefully preserve what little

526
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: chance I have left of being fertile. Well, thank you

527
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: Meg for sharing your story, and I also wish you

528
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: the best of luck with your health journey, and thanks

529
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: to everybody who's written in mom Stuff. Discovery dot com

530
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: is where you can send your letters. You can also

531
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: follow us on Facebook and on Twitter at Mom's Stuff

532
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: po Cast, and you can also follow us on Instagram

533
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: at stuff Mom Never Told You. And you'll want to

534
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: be sure to start following us because Caroline and I

535
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: will be posting photos of our Halloween costumes there. And

536
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: of course, don't forget to head on over to YouTube

537
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: and check out our channel where at YouTube dot com

538
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: slash stuff Mom Never Told You, and don't forget to

539
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.

540
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: Does it how stuff works. Dot com