1
00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,000
Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

2
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,560
Speaker 1: and il podcasts.

3
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,600
Speaker 2: Things are getting dark, and I think these conversations are

4
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,720
Speaker 2: timely and to have some kind of deeper foundation or

5
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,279
Speaker 2: understanding will be very helpful. Is a lightnment reel. I

6
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,880
Speaker 2: have no idea, I don't care. I'm just trying to

7
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 2: be trumby present, grateful, more loving. I like to make

8
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 2: a couple of things. Hopefully I can make a difference

9
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,239
Speaker 2: while I'm still down here. And that's about it.

10
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,720
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Alive Again Today. We're honored to be

11
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,520
Speaker 1: joined by a truly remarkable guest filmmaker, Jonas l. Rod.

12
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,160
Speaker 1: Jonas is a Southern writer, director, and producer who grew

13
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,319
Speaker 1: up in Georgia with a deep appreciation for story as

14
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 1: a means for change. His appreciation for personal truth and

15
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,639
Speaker 1: deeper meaning has been a compass for his fiction and

16
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,480
Speaker 1: nonfictional work. Jonas is the creator of the powerful documentary

17
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,040
Speaker 1: Wake Up, which chronicles his own sudden and life changing

18
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,840
Speaker 1: spiritual awakening, a moment that opened him to visions, energies,

19
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,400
Speaker 1: and realities that are beyond the ordinary world. His journey

20
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: has taken him through doubt, faith, and deep exploration of

21
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,479
Speaker 1: what it means to be alive. Since then, Jonas has

22
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: continued to seek and share stories and perspectives on the

23
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 1: nature of reality, our mysterious place within it, and the

24
00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 1: moments of transformation that shape who we are. His work

25
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: also caught the attention of Oprah Winfrey, who brought Jonas's

26
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 1: journey to a wider audience through his series in Deep

27
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,679
Speaker 1: Shift on the Oprah Winfrey Network. Jonas and I have

28
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,040
Speaker 1: a lot in common. We're both from the South. We

29
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 1: both had to work through some of that cultural programming

30
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 1: while holding onto the many truths and really grounded perspectives

31
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 1: that also come from the South. We are both storytellers

32
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,919
Speaker 1: and filmmakers, and we're both of the same generation. Today,

33
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 1: we'll talk to Jonas about his path as an artist

34
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 1: and seeker, how his experiences can shine a light on

35
00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,960
Speaker 1: the universal human questions that we explore here, what happens

36
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 1: when the veil lifts and when life as we know

37
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: it is forever changed. And it's an honor to sit

38
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 1: down with Jenas today and explore his journey, his work,

39
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:15,359
Speaker 1: what it means to truly wake up. It's just such

40
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,080
Speaker 1: a wonderful movie. I mean you're you're a really good storyteller.

41
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 1: You're a really good filmmaker, you said at the end

42
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,959
Speaker 1: of it. Near the end, you said, he said, I

43
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,240
Speaker 1: don't know, I just feel absolutely alive again. I was like, Oh,

44
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 1: there is there. It is at the end of the

45
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 1: Y're doking, really, Oh there is Okay, that's it, that's

46
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 1: alive again.

47
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,800
Speaker 2: I did. I don't remember saying that. I mean, it's

48
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 2: been a while.

49
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: Well maybe, I mean just a little bit in your words,

50
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 1: just about about that process of how this happened to

51
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: you and.

52
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,959
Speaker 2: My experience opening up to a bigger thing was very

53
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 2: phenomenon based. There would make a great scripted film. It

54
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 2: almost sounds like a film. I mean, it was up

55
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,239
Speaker 2: to ten with the phenomena I started experiencing. I've always

56
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 2: I've been a filmmaker for years and years and years.

57
00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: I was making a film on bears. Bears are large

58
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 2: cherry gay men, and that was my first documentary I

59
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,679
Speaker 2: was doing. And these large harry gay men, well some

60
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 2: are large sum or not. I don't want if anybody,

61
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,720
Speaker 2: but I liked the idea of subsets and cultures or

62
00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,519
Speaker 2: being double double triple minorities, and so these men would

63
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,920
Speaker 2: come out. It's gay in the thirties, forties and fifties,

64
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 2: but they didn't fit the archetype of a twink. So

65
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 2: they would come out and they would get ostracized by

66
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 2: the straight community, and then some were rejected by the

67
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,639
Speaker 2: gay community. So they became a community called Bears, which

68
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 2: just you know. I followed these guys all around the country.

69
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 2: They'll get mad at this, but they have essentially what

70
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: was called an International Bear Round to do in San Francisco,

71
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 2: which is essentially a beauty contest. All these bears come together,

72
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 2: they go on stage, y'all have community. It's a wonderful,

73
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 2: beautiful thing. I felt honored I got to be part

74
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 2: of that. So I'm following these bears for about a year. Tampa, Atlanta, Portland,

75
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 2: New York, LA. We all go to San Francisco to

76
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 2: do this big thing. And the night before I was

77
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 2: going to shoot the contact, my crew was driving up

78
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 2: from LA and San Francisco. I started seeing things. I

79
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,120
Speaker 2: started hearing voices and in the last about nine hours

80
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 2: and my drug guy, I don't judge people do drugs.

81
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 2: My drug guy didn't hit my head against the windshield

82
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 2: fifteen times. It was suffering some trauma. But I'm charging batteries,

83
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 2: make my shot list and starts getting cold in the room.

84
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 2: There's a light in the corner that opens up like

85
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: a portal or something, and all these spirits started coming in.

86
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 2: It was beautiful and terrifying at the same time. It's

87
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 2: this weird dichotomy the feelings I was having. For some reason,

88
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 2: I knew it was real. I didn't think that something

89
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 2: was going on in my brain. And a lot of

90
00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 2: just crazy phenomenon happened that night. I was having glimpses

91
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 2: of stuff weeks leading up to it. On my way

92
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,159
Speaker 2: up from flying to New York to LA to the Thumb,

93
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,719
Speaker 2: I looked out the window. I saw lights moving around,

94
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: and then I sat in my seat and look forward.

95
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 2: You see two thousand and one right, Thank god that

96
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 2: would have really deriled the interview if you hadn't seen

97
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 2: two thousand and one. So the tunnel they're going through

98
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 2: at the end of all the lights, I saw my

99
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 2: version of that, just sitting in my seat again, sky

100
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,360
Speaker 2: am all on my lap looking straight and I saw

101
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 2: all these vivid colors.

102
00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,280
Speaker 1: Did you turn into an old man and see child.

103
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,680
Speaker 2: I've always been an old man, just contankerous, even in

104
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 2: when I was little, just crping about kids on the lawn.

105
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 2: But I was having glimpses of this phenomenon, and that

106
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,480
Speaker 2: culminated the night before this big shoot. Yeah, so I

107
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,720
Speaker 2: would see entities and spirits in the room. I saw geometry.

108
00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,279
Speaker 2: I saw like it was just it's hard to explain.

109
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 2: I saw an object move in the room. Again. It

110
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 2: was beautiful and wild and also terrifying. Toward the end

111
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 2: of this experience, which this is why I don't do

112
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,559
Speaker 2: whyahwa Aska Dmt. I've just I've seen through that veil

113
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,480
Speaker 2: very vividly numerous times. I don't really need to keep

114
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,800
Speaker 2: doing that or keep pokem my head through the veil.

115
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 2: But I saw a vision which I didn't understand. But

116
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,599
Speaker 2: I saw a by sickle like it went across the

117
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,880
Speaker 2: room and then it tumbled. And months and months later,

118
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 2: my best friend Dyna motorcycle wreck and what I was

119
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 2: seeing was a vision of his death. I didn't know

120
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 2: that at the time, so all this information was flooding

121
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,160
Speaker 2: at me. And then of the night I was told

122
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 2: very specifically to expose what was happening to me. And

123
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 2: that was at the next day my cruise up We're filming.

124
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 2: These large Harry gay men on stage have their beauty contest,

125
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 2: dress up like firemen, and they're having a great time.

126
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 2: And I'm holding the camera trying to keep my shit

127
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 2: together because I'm seeing oars come out of people and

128
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,000
Speaker 2: spirits run around. And so you didn't you didn't call

129
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 2: off the shoot? No, No, I'm blue collar man. I mean,

130
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 2: if we're gonna do something, we're gonna do something. So

131
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 2: I'll work playing hurt right and I would see, well,

132
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:48,720
Speaker 2: I didn't know what they were at the time. I

133
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,320
Speaker 2: see chakras opening up, and so we filmed for the weekend.

134
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,000
Speaker 2: I interviewed about thirty bears, and you know, completed the

135
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 2: film and just fell apart after that. I was very,

136
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 2: very lucky. When I came back to New York. This

137
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 2: artist I'm friends with, I told him about my experience.

138
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 2: We're sitting in the car chain smoking. This one does

139
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,200
Speaker 2: in New York. I'm not thinking I'm telling the whole experience.

140
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 2: I look out and he's pale. He's like, I know

141
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 2: you should meet And immediately immediately I met a real

142
00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,080
Speaker 2: shaman and who would be my co director for a

143
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 2: wake up two days later, and they grounded me, and

144
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 2: they explained to me what was happening. They let me

145
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,520
Speaker 2: know is okay, and they validated a lot of things

146
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 2: that was going through. There's an adage of like when

147
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 2: the students are the teacher will show up. I don't

148
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 2: like it just like that, but that was certainly true

149
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 2: in my case. Yeah, so I got confirmation that something

150
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 2: had opened up in my consciousness to access all the stuff.

151
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 2: But there's still lots and lots and lots of work

152
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 2: to integrate that, to ground it, to be a piece

153
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 2: with it, to decide if you're going to use it,

154
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,240
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Yeah, And so when people go see

155
00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 2: psychics and shaman and blah blah blah, they're all, well,

156
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 2: a lot of them are real if they don't do

157
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 2: internal work. You know that the gift can be great,

158
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 2: the water can be great, but if it's a dirty glass,

159
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 2: it's a dirty glass. So you have to work through

160
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 2: these many, many stages. So I'll say the whole wake

161
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,680
Speaker 2: up thing, it proved two things that love is real,

162
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 2: God is real, spirit's real, Therapy is a good thing,

163
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 2: and getting grounded it's a good thing, And that no

164
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,440
Speaker 2: one's special, it's just a unique experience. But that takes

165
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 2: a long time. In my estimation, I'm a slow learner,

166
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 2: so to get there, it's probably a lot to give you.

167
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,560
Speaker 2: But that's that's the crux. SOO Spirit said expose it. Okay,

168
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 2: people showed up and we got on the road, exposing me.

169
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,960
Speaker 2: Waking up to this in real time. I wish I

170
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 2: could just do films about people that drive real fast

171
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 2: cars and have good looking girlfriends and banks. But I

172
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,439
Speaker 2: haven't talked about this in so this is. It sounds

173
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 2: absurd telling you like this, this is the gig man,

174
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 2: this is But it's.

175
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 1: A calling, right, I mean you feel that it's it's

176
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 1: something that you are compelled to to share.

177
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 2: Without a doubt. Well, but I didn't when they said

178
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 2: expose it, I didn't know they meant they really are saying,

179
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,559
Speaker 2: exposed you. I supposed to me. I thought I was

180
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,240
Speaker 2: going to do like a Michael Moore thing and meet

181
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,959
Speaker 2: people with different phenomenon India. No, no, no, I spose you.

182
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,559
Speaker 2: My girlfriend Shirlin didn't know that, so it was supposed her.

183
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,160
Speaker 2: So it's exposed us as a couple, and it exposed

184
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,880
Speaker 2: us working through a challenge. Yeah, and it's you know,

185
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,559
Speaker 2: and so there's layers upon layers. So I didn't know

186
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 2: that at the time, but I let go and disgusted.

187
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 1: You documented your own transformation, is what I saw.

188
00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 2: In other words, well, that's the kind word transformation. But

189
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 2: I definitely documented my experience of becoming at peace with this,

190
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 2: understand what it is, you know, so and so forth.

191
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 2: So I appreciate that.

192
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 1: I was really excited to invite you to come talk

193
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 1: to me on this show because I feel like we

194
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,599
Speaker 1: are kindred spirits in that sense, like we have a

195
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,120
Speaker 1: lot in common. We're both from, you know, the god

196
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 1: fearing South as as you stated in Wake Up.

197
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 2: Oh, I said that, Well, it's it's I like that idea,

198
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 2: or maybe I heard to over say it.

199
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's a it's a yeah, I.

200
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 2: Think it was South. Yeah, that's us.

201
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,920
Speaker 1: We're about the same age, I think, and we're both filmmakers,

202
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,960
Speaker 1: we're both storytellers, and like you, maybe I've just always

203
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: been compelled with an interest in what the hell is this?

204
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,640
Speaker 1: This this human experience, you know, and the idea behind

205
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 1: a live Again is something that hopefully, in the best case,

206
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 1: an area is unifying. We're all experiencing the same human condition,

207
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 1: and that is that we're all going to die. Everybody

208
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: we know, everybody we've ever known, at some point will

209
00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: pass from this earth. And in the meantime we can

210
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,880
Speaker 1: look at each other, you know, without have been hard

211
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 1: and hopefully you know, ask the questions of like why

212
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 1: is this, what are we doing here? What is this experience?

213
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I feel like we have a lot

214
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 1: in common with some of these things. And the one

215
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 1: of the biggest or most interesting things to me about

216
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,240
Speaker 1: your work is how accessible you are, Jenas. And by

217
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: that I mean if the common guy out there or

218
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,199
Speaker 1: person out there has some sense of skepticism about the

219
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,079
Speaker 1: nature of reality, or you know, we have sort of

220
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 1: a Western box, I like to think about it, and

221
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 1: certain ideas can go in that Western box, and other ideas,

222
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: all of the other ideas, like as many ideas as

223
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,959
Speaker 1: there are grains of sand on the oceans, there's some

224
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 1: grains of sand in that Western box that are accepted

225
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: as truth. And then there's a lot more out there

226
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,839
Speaker 1: that's not There's so much more that we don't know.

227
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 1: And if we could just sort of open up a

228
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 1: little bit and be a little bit more open to

229
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 1: the possibilities and the curiosity of that and less certain

230
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: about Yeah, in our skepticism and our cynicism in general

231
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,760
Speaker 1: in this culture, I guess is one of them.

232
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's uh. I'd really trying to hard out

233
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 2: to get political or just this new thing about Bravado

234
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 2: with maximum ignorance. Like I try not to speak if

235
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 2: I don't know about a subject, I try not to.

236
00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,880
Speaker 2: But just we just know everything now. And I don't

237
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,560
Speaker 2: want to slag off Florida, but there is a Florida

238
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 2: energy of just like I know everything.

239
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:09,439
Speaker 1: And I grew up with my parents the God here inself.

240
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 1: They rejected the church, and they grew and they raised

241
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 1: us in a non religious capacity. They're atheists, and it's

242
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,079
Speaker 1: taken me a long time to realize that they had

243
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 1: their own dogmas, just like somebody who was in the

244
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,839
Speaker 1: religious fervor might have their own dogmas, you know, And

245
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 1: they have their own dogmas in the idea of materialism

246
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,080
Speaker 1: and the idea that you know, we're just warm food

247
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: once we die, you know. When I would go to

248
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,200
Speaker 1: like Camp Cherokee, which is a YMCA camp in rock Yiled,

249
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 1: South Carolina, and kids were scared of me when they

250
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: found out that I don't believe in God, you know,

251
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: oh wow, and then you were I was probably eight, nine, ten.

252
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,959
Speaker 2: Yeah that's you know, that's hard to grow up with.

253
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,559
Speaker 2: It was interesting. Yeah, well I assume it is, and

254
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 2: that would be weird, like you're not in our club

255
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 2: and we're scared for it. I'm like, dude, I'm eight,

256
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 2: I want to play with Star Wars figures.

257
00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,520
Speaker 1: And like it sent me into a you know, kind

258
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,959
Speaker 1: of a punk rock bent where I was like, you know,

259
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: fuck all you guys, like, screw you guys with your

260
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,440
Speaker 1: dogma and everything. And it's taken me a long time

261
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,240
Speaker 1: to go okay, my own dogmas have blinded me, perhaps

262
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 1: to some of the truths, and I just it took

263
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 1: me a while to start to break that down. I

264
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,480
Speaker 1: had several inciting incidents in my own story that helped

265
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,199
Speaker 1: me to see that maybe that was an arrogance and

266
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,439
Speaker 1: maybe I should make myself vulnerable to larger notions about

267
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 1: life and death. And I know that you with your storytelling,

268
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,719
Speaker 1: and because this happened to you and you had sort

269
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,120
Speaker 1: of a similar background, I just I'll just see you

270
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,640
Speaker 1: as a unifier, man, I see you as your story

271
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: is one for all of us who are or maybe

272
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 1: don't have license in this culture to believe in certain

273
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,959
Speaker 1: truths or to see outside that western box, that limited

274
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,839
Speaker 1: western box. Your story kind of gives us license to

275
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 1: do that because you're very grounded. Does that make sense?

276
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,559
Speaker 2: It does. That's so much to unpack, and I appreciate

277
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 2: the kind words, and I just don't do this anymore.

278
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 2: And when I first started doing this, the wake up

279
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,559
Speaker 2: the phenomenon was still on about seven out of ten.

280
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 2: It was still very very and so I was going

281
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 2: to like, fuck it. I know that this is a

282
00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 2: dream within a dream. I've seen it, and so always

283
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 2: the punk rock thing I definitely resonate with. Anger makes

284
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 2: a lot of sense. Anger makes a whole lot of sense,

285
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 2: Like really this fuck that that makes sense to me?

286
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,400
Speaker 2: Always has. You know, the kids making fun of you

287
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,400
Speaker 2: are like scared about or you're going to liver die.

288
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 2: That's a you know, I don't know how you sit

289
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 2: with it now, but that may have been a gift

290
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 2: that may have planned a seat early on to get

291
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 2: you to where you are today.

292
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: At a very early age, probably when other kids were

293
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 1: playing with storers figures, I was kind of going this

294
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 1: isn't absurd condition we live in yeah, which.

295
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 2: Agreed upon absurdity. This is all agreed upon weirdnesssch We're

296
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 2: just conditioned for this. We're born into this, we're going

297
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 2: to die into this, but we just all agree upon it.

298
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 2: So if you start saying radical shit that could be true, true,

299
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 2: what do we do with that? We lock them up

300
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,320
Speaker 2: in the singing song, Oh we dismissed somewhere to become outsiders.

301
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 2: I've got a five year old and a one and

302
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 2: a half year old, and so I'm always kind of

303
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 2: looking at how they're looking at it. And I don't

304
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 2: know if my son's got the thing, he's five, but

305
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 2: I think my daughter does.

306
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 1: And so.

307
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 2: My son, unfortunately has been around a lot of death.

308
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,200
Speaker 2: I was of late. I hit a deer. It was traumatic.

309
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 2: I hated it. He hated it. My mother died, his

310
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 2: grandmother going to pass, our dog passed, and he's like,

311
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 2: where do they go? He's like, well, I know where

312
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 2: I think they went, but this is up to you

313
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 2: to find out and discover. But I'll give you my opinion.

314
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 2: And so I'm trying to block it where my stuff

315
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 2: doesn't go on to him unless he asks. But then

316
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 2: I'll take them to a private school and I have

317
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 2: to come up and I hear they're teaching all this

318
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 2: religious son, It's like, well, I don't I don't know

319
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 2: how to navigate this. I'll just do as I can

320
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 2: to kind of block it where his channel's still open. Yeah,

321
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 2: he can still kind of connect and he can kind

322
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 2: of figure out himself. Well, but for you not and

323
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 2: raised with religious parents, that was the same way, which

324
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 2: to me is a gift. I wanted to go to church.

325
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 2: I thought it like nineteen, I was going to become

326
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 2: a preacher. Then I went there and we're roughly the

327
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 2: same age. So Star Wars is a big deal. It

328
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 2: was before I can remember them talking about the Force

329
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 2: being demonic. Wow, really yeah, And I can remember talking

330
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 2: about the Halloween is wrong in church and gay people

331
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 2: are bad and I just like, this isn't what I

332
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 2: want to do now. That was my church experience in

333
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 2: the South, So my career kind of went a different way.

334
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 2: So it was kind of fun to me. When I

335
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 2: was young, I either wanted to be a preacher or

336
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 2: a filmmaker. Yeah, some weird way on this odd hybrid, right,

337
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 2: just not preaching a path, but just this is the

338
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 2: experience I've had. Yeah, I don't care if you believe

339
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: it or not, but it can be a helpful cool

340
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 2: if not, because and I hate to sell Hallmark taglines,

341
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 2: but I do think everyone has a piece of this,

342
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 2: and I can only get my ass kicked so much

343
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 2: by the universe. Like I had a real swagger when

344
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 2: this all happened. I either felt like I was very

345
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 2: special or a victim. And my girlfriend at the time, so.

346
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 1: Your ego was inflamed around the idea of this.

347
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 2: Not inflame, but I thought I had this special ability,

348
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,679
Speaker 2: special thing, not huge ego, but just like a thing,

349
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 2: and that I felt like, no, no, I'm kind of screwed.

350
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 2: This is horrible. I don't I feel like a victim.

351
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 2: I don't know how to turn this off. So it

352
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:19,679
Speaker 2: took me some time to kind of figure out how

353
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 2: to ground it. So I appreciate you saying I'm grounded,

354
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,959
Speaker 2: because I certainly didn't feel that way when it came

355
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 2: out or when this started.

356
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: I'll say, not just grounded, but there's a vulnerability to you.

357
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 1: So you were all on that there was a vulnerability

358
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,119
Speaker 1: to you, and there was a there was a sensitivity

359
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 1: to you that but you're also you know, you're a

360
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: normal dude. You're not a guru. You're now and and

361
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,879
Speaker 1: it gives us other normal folks some access because we

362
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: can identify with you as a as a human being.

363
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,199
Speaker 2: First. Well that's the point though, Yeah, I mean there

364
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 2: was a time in my career I probably could have

365
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 2: got on that train of these spiritual people that talk

366
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 2: and you like them, and they sell DVDs about meditation.

367
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 2: This bothered me. Didn't want to do any of that,

368
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 2: And so I liked telling his stories and I would

369
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 2: like to tell other people's stories, but I'm weary of

370
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 2: these constructs. And for me, I needed to find other

371
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 2: people that had certain sensitivities like I did. And I

372
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,000
Speaker 2: found two great friends I've been friends with over twenty

373
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,360
Speaker 2: years that understood this. But I don't need a whole

374
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 2: community of people to see a guru to kind of

375
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, you know, these are own but like,

376
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,400
Speaker 2: if you meditat in a group, that's a bigger wave

377
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 2: to serve. If you sing and acquire, it's a bigger wave.

378
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,919
Speaker 1: But you know, my parents, when I said that, they

379
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: rejected the church. Like there was a time in the

380
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,479
Speaker 1: sixties when they were deciding whether or not to let

381
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 1: black people be and they're you know, part of the congregation.

382
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 1: And he was rallying for these folks to you know,

383
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: to get past to see the teachings of Jesus and

384
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,919
Speaker 1: to open their hearts and open their minds. And they

385
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: and he saw the he saw their dogma and their fear,

386
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 1: and he said, well, if religion can bring people to this,

387
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: then it's dangerous. Only part of it ever again, and

388
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 1: I'll never darken your doors again. Then he left it,

389
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 1: but it left me with this feeling like he rejected

390
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: it so completely that it let that I grew up

391
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 1: in this sort of atheist agnostic kind of environment.

392
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but well, I mean that's I definitely have been

393
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,679
Speaker 2: known to clear kitchen table just screw this. But I mean,

394
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 2: being agnostic makes all the sense in the world. To me,

395
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 2: Atheism feels like a reaction, which I've certainly had my

396
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 2: modes and all. In Funner millitsis seems very you don't

397
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 2: want to question some of the stuff. So it's it's strange.

398
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 2: You know, there's what eight billion people on the planet,

399
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 2: three to four major religions. I guess Buddhism is more

400
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 2: of a philosophy. So three major religions and then Buddhism

401
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: answer five questions that we all kind of have the

402
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 2: same ones when you're talking about earlier, like what am

403
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 2: I doing here when I die? It's got cool, he's

404
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 2: got a big beard. All those five basic questions we

405
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: all have. Yeah, it is absurd to me. A billion people,

406
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: three major religions, five simple same questions we all have,

407
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 2: but there's only three major places to turn. So I

408
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 2: like that people are starting to kind of branch out

409
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 2: and have their own experience. Like I resonate with teachings

410
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 2: of Christ, also resonate with teachings of the Buddha. I'm

411
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: just not card caring for anyone. I try to go

412
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 2: off my experience. I try to plug in, and I

413
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 2: have myself to blame or credit if things are kind

414
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 2: of on a certain path, right, I think people are

415
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: waking up to that. My wife works in advertising. The

416
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: girlfriend who was with me when all this time opened up.

417
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 2: God bless this woman's soul, got two beautiful kids and

418
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: lives worked out pretty good. But she talks about these

419
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 2: younger generations. I forget which one. That they're all existentialists.

420
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 2: They're all asking these big boy, big girl questions, and

421
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 2: I get it. So let me give you another compliment,

422
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 2: or at least start one. One, You've got a great

423
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 2: speaking voice. And two things are getting dark and now

424
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: some goause they don't be po Now things are getting dark,

425
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,719
Speaker 2: waters are wet, And I think these conversations are timely

426
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people are watching buildings

427
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: falls like this is what we're doing right now, it is,

428
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 2: and to have some kind of deeper foundation or understanding

429
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 2: will be very helpful. Thanks. Yeah, I mean it moments, Yeah.

430
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I mean it's not that we're not political,

431
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: because we have we have a talk back after the

432
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: show and the group of people who sit around after

433
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: each story that we report on the show and we

434
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: all hash it out from our different perspectives and oh nice.

435
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 2: So there is that.

436
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 1: But by not being political, I just mean that I

437
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: want people to unify in the things we have in common, Yeah,

438
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: across whatever, at least.

439
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all struggle with anxiety on some level. We

440
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 2: all want to all want to take care of our

441
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 2: children and our loved ones. It's all same, the same stuff. Yeah,

442
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 2: and it's wild to me over this place. I'm very

443
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 2: pleasure and trauma. We're all going to experience some trauma.

444
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, without doubt. So I'm looking at my kids, like, okay,

445
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: Like my son is beautiful. He looks like he came

446
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: off of point break casting and he's at school and

447
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: he's got He says, a class with these two girls,

448
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 2: and the girls apparently mean to him, and I say, well,

449
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: maybe they think you're cute. No, it's funny. He has

450
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 2: so much Conveci's five. I said, well maybe, And I

451
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 2: just realized, Oh, he's going to go through all this stuff.

452
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: You and I do, all the heartbreak, all this stuff,

453
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 2: and that's the gig he signed up for. That's a

454
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: gig you and I signed up for. This is a gig. Yeah,

455
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: highs and loves. Otherwise, I don't think we didn'tcarnate. These

456
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 2: meat suits have these conversations trying to figure out what

457
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: we're looking at. So I try to be at peace

458
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 2: with that, but you know, it's apparent. It gets tough.

459
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 2: But but people don't want to talk about Like we're

460
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: on the airplane looking at sky Mall and outside the

461
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: wings on fire. Now now it's not a fire. I'm

462
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: looking at sky Moh my god, you can have a

463
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: year's subscription to this. It's like, but the wings on

464
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: fire were so terrified to look at the damn thing. Right,

465
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: But this is what we're doing. And I think I'm

466
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: very political or I just want to Yeah, I have

467
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: some righteous justice me too. And I would comment on

468
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: and they said, well, you don't seem very spiritual because

469
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: you're so upset about this. So dude, christ flipped over tables.

470
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: What were we talking about here? So I'm not lazy optimistic.

471
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: I am optimistic. We'll get through this. I still know when.

472
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 2: But anyway, these are time. This is a good time

473
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: to have these conversations because a lot of things we've

474
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: put all our belief in is falling apart.

475
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: Our conversation with Jonas l Rod will continue after this break,

476
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: and we're back in the studio with filmmaker Jonahs l Rot.

477
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: This is about storytelling as healing. You set adages, you ease.

478
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: This is an adage. But these adages, like parables, like

479
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: anything else that they have way, they have meaning. They're

480
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: not just you know, even the force right, even everything

481
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: not notice says this stuff has meaning and it comes

482
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: from a richness of tradition. So you're a storyteller, a

483
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: documentary and narrative filmmaker, and it's fascinating through your experience

484
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 1: in searching for these answers, it called to mind these

485
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: universal phases of the hero's journey. So there's the departure,

486
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,239
Speaker 1: the ordeal, the transformation, the return, the hero's journey. Right,

487
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: all of the justse of Campbell stuff. The process of ego, death, loss, grief, trauma,

488
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: and healing follows the same structure as these mythic stories,

489
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: the archetypal hero's journey. Even the inciting incident, the Dark

490
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: Night of the Soul, which was your Bear's documentary when

491
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: you're the night before.

492
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 2: It was dark knight. I mean I saw some stuff.

493
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: I guess. Yeah, it was a dark knight.

494
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: That was your inciting incident, as were I guess. The

495
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: question is what do you see as the role of story,

496
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: in the power of storytelling, especially film, in the role

497
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: of healing, or in the role of sharing this message

498
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: for others?

499
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's everything. I mean, music to me

500
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: is the greatest way to have a spiritual, transcendent moment.

501
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: And I got in a nick cave late in life

502
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: and then God I did like I can plug up

503
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: to the big light bulb in the sky and just

504
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: weep and dance and joy and elation and just that's

505
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: a gift. Film is not a country mile second place,

506
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: but it's second place. I mean you have more elements

507
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 2: of that. And so men men don't do this. They're

508
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 2: all closed up and so worry about stuff. So I

509
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: think what you can tell stories about and being vulnerable

510
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: about what you're going through, what you're looking at, what

511
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: you're trying to do. From a seeking point of view,

512
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: I think everything can be spiritual. Like for me, Fight

513
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: Club and American Beauty is the same film, once from

514
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: the Divine Mask and once from the Divine Feminine, but

515
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: it's about men trying to understand and see can get

516
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: there through different ways. I think there's both that this

517
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: film come around the same time as a coincidence like

518
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: that help people look at a thing. When done right,

519
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: these things can be very transformative. I'm not going to

520
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: go to a megachurch and do my thing that way

521
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: as an audience member, but I watch a movie seventeen times,

522
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: Oh wow, the way the sonic wrapped around what this

523
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 2: guy said this, And I think we referenced movies A

524
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: couple of times. But for me it gets me closer upstairs,

525
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: and the.

526
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: And these movies that come out they hit the cultural

527
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: consciousness at similar times. So I used to argue at

528
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: the back in the day that pulp fiction and Forrest

529
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: Gump we're very pretty much about the same thing, having

530
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: to do with destiny, having to do with oh, yeah,

531
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, you know, box of chocolates versus yeah, yeah,

532
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: other briefcase. Just see the Samuel Jackson journey.

533
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: I haven't put that together. I like that, but I

534
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: could go on and on on that one. But well, no,

535
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: but I think people plug into a thing. It's like

536
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: the New York Times crossword, like, no, we can get

537
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: the last piece and when you get it, eighteen seconds

538
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: on the other side of the planet, I'll get it.

539
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: Like we're all plugging the same. Yeah, so it's kind

540
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: of rad. This is a Macus and Quentin tarantinog going, Okay,

541
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: we're gonna plug into this thing. And it's something does

542
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 2: another thing I should have I should have known.

543
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: About a long time ago because or given more power.

544
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: A friend once told me said, you know, don't tell

545
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: any out of your story, don't tell anybody of your

546
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: film idea, because the many. You tell them there's ten

547
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: other people on the planet. They're going to do it

548
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: before you do it as well. It was a long

549
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: time ago, but but I do have a lot of

550
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: experiences in my filmmaking career where the same film that

551
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: I made will also be at the at the film festival,

552
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, or or I'll have an idea and it's

553
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: very specific, and then I'm thinking, I'm gonna have to

554
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: see the studio because they somehow they got my script

555
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: and they somehow they read my idea. And I'm like,

556
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: but or was it just the zeitgeist?

557
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: Right?

558
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: You know?

559
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I I guy was we was writing an inception? Yeah,

560
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 2: and then an inception came out like four months later. Yeah,

561
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: he's upsets. It was different. But yeah, listen, I think

562
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: big ideas. It's hard being these meat suits and having

563
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 2: your thing, but I think they're going to come how

564
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: they come. And I think, you know, inception plays with

565
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: the idea of these different layers dream within a dream

566
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: within a dream, which you know, there's a lot of

567
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: religious ideas. It's one I subscribe to. So I don't

568
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: remember where we were. It just goes everywhere. Yeah, and

569
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: I thought it might no I know, I appreciate that,

570
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: but I was kind of just interested in your take

571
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: on these.

572
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: Structures, these sort of mythic structures, and these these the

573
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: hero's journey as it applies to And so you, as

574
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: a storyteller, you're innately familiar with that process and how

575
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: to tell a story, and just seeing that is do

576
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: you feel like your film has helped to sort of

577
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: raise consciousness or helped with other people to heal, or

578
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: the films that you've made in the work you've done

579
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: since then as a film itself as a power of healing.

580
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: I guess yeah. I mean that's the intent. I don't

581
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: want to say what I've done or not done. I've

582
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: I felt honored to be involved with things that seemed

583
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: to have helped people. And it's a tricky thing. And

584
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: that's why I kind of really stepped back from this

585
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: because when people saw Wake Up, people were like, oh

586
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: my god, I have the same thing or my cousin.

587
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: And there's a fine line and I don't have it

588
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: figured out between having some sort of sensitive and it's

589
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: I'm no casting director yesterday and I'm working on other projects.

590
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: Very spiritual and I asked him about his intuition that

591
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: you got on offensive. He's like, oh, I don't, I

592
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: don't want talk about the spirituality is no, I'm not

593
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: talking about that. I could care less what you believe.

594
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: But you have to be intuitive on some level or

595
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: do what you do on the way you do it.

596
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: For me, I I watch films. I listened to music

597
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: constantly because on some level it heals me or on

598
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: some level it plugs me upstairs. That's the big thing

599
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: for me. It brings joy, it brings it. If I

600
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: took me a year to agrieve with my dad and

601
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: I had to use other things to help move the energy.

602
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: And when it started moving, boys started moving. But so

603
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: I just there's other people can make film.

604
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: Open your brain.

605
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: It should the best stuff does. So that's what I

606
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: try to do. And yeah, I figured wake Up would

607
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: be absolute career suicide, but that led to other places

608
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: and I eventually had a TV show which right took

609
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: the wake up template about other people having these breakdown

610
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: breakthrough experiences and try to widen that up. You know,

611
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be the sensational. I'm seeing dead

612
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: people and yeah, other levels of consciousness. That's very very

613
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: high drama, right, It could be Hey, I got fired

614
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: from my job. I don't know I am anymore. You know,

615
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: all these things can be a catalyst. So I'm asking

616
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: the big questions you are.

617
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 1: I got interested in genre as a film. I never

618
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 1: thought I would, But I got more and more interested

619
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 1: in genre, and specifically sci fi and horror. But sci

620
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: fi as it occurred to me that at its best,

621
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: like the best forms of sci fi and horror put

622
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: the human condition on steroids, and it's like a jet

623
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: trip straight into your fear or into you know, what

624
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: it means to be a human being. It really pushes,

625
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, the external forces that happen in sci fi

626
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: and horror push the internal forces in a way that's

627
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: that you can't do with any other genre. Maybe, Yeah,

628
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: it's going to deconstruct what it used.

629
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: To be, you know to live in this culture.

630
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, in very specific ways, and to construct elements of

631
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: consciousness and in very specific ways that are playing with

632
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: your brain just in the framing if nothing else.

633
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I debate, and E would say this. So

634
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: when I saw the tunnel, like, yeah, I'm probably on

635
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: the cheapest airline I could afford me my film, it

636
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: reminded me of two colors coming at me, the vibrants

637
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: I've seen, and I'd be it'd be ridiculous how to

638
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: bring up Lynch. So I was having experiences and like

639
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: with lights, and I remember when I was sitting in

640
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: a hotel room and things would get altered. Lights were

641
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: kind of flicker like, but I know, no one else

642
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 2: gonna see him. They were flicker and that was kind

643
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: of touchdown the Lench always did. And he was a

644
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: big transgental meditators, you know. So I think that these authors,

645
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: these filmmakers see this thing, they don't really know what

646
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: it is, they put it out there. And then when

647
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: I was having these experiences of going deeper, I would

648
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: see some of these things that reminds me of so

649
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: and so. Right now, you could argue a very good

650
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: argument all day long, chicken or egg. But I think

651
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: the best filmmakers are diving deep and putting this out there.

652
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: They may not even know what it means, but on

653
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: some challenge. Yeah, and then we look at it and recognize,

654
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: oh there's a truth to that.

655
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: That's that's the danger I feel that is upon us

656
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: with AI right now, Oh lordy, get too far into it.

657
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: But like, yeah, yeah, I'm so very nervous about all that.

658
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: Well, and a lot of what we're talking about today

659
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: is is, you know, this experience on planet Earth, this

660
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: experience in this meat avatar has to do with suffering

661
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: to some degree or you know, challenges, trauma, you know,

662
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: these ego deaths, these things that are going to continue

663
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: to hit us until we to force us to grow

664
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: in different ways. And I feel like that's true of filmmaking,

665
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: the creative process, and writing. So it occurred to me

666
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: when I started doabbling with Ai, I was like, oh wait,

667
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: this is kind of scary. This is a little bit.

668
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: It was giving me these perfect sort of forms, right

669
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: that were generated from all the mass collection of forms,

670
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: and I could tell it what kind of form I wanted,

671
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: and they would generate a form in their writing. And

672
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: I realized that if I don't have if I don't

673
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: if there's no struggle for me, you know, or anybody

674
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: as an artist or as a writer or a filmmaker

675
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: or storyteller, If I don't struggle, if there's no sort

676
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: of point when I'm staring at the cursor and there's

677
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: a blank page, and if there's no writer's block, then

678
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: I then and if I don't have to do the

679
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: hard fucking work to find what the story is. Then

680
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: there's no POV, there's no there's nothing coming. I'm not

681
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: a channel anymore. My channel to all of this zeitgeist

682
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: and everything that that that I would be useful for

683
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: to the universe is closed or or just cut just

684
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: cut off. And so it occurred to me that you

685
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: have to do the hard work to write. You have

686
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: to suffer in order to grow, in order to be

687
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: a channel to these ideas. The good idea is that

688
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: the lightning in the bottle, the shit that happens in

689
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: the editing room, all that stuff, if somebody else, if

690
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: it just happens, then then what are you? Some sort

691
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: of curator and of what you know? But I just

692
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like, unless like AI kills the channel,

693
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: I can see that that's interesting, the consciousness channel.

694
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: We would go on shoots. I would always prep the

695
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: crew up and I would say, embarrassingly, now go look,

696
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 2: this is war, and so we're not going home until

697
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: we get it. So I just got a shoot last week,

698
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: especially six days we don't have it, seven days don't

699
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: have it, ten days we got it. All very intense material.

700
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: I can't just manifest the film about butterflies. But I

701
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: realized I used to always tell the crew, this is war.

702
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: So on some level you could argue, well, I'm manifesting

703
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: the camera blowing up and the pitch your car, you know,

704
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: going down the street. So it's funny I'll talk about

705
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: spiritual stuff. I'm always very boring when I talk about

706
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: the career of process. But I mean there's certainly for

707
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: my work, and it's been pain of suffering that's been

708
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: into it, and I think that you get to a place, well,

709
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: I understand this pain of suffering, so maybe I can

710
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: translate someone else's pain of suffering, but on the other

711
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: side of that, hopefully as a release of joy or

712
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: understanding or peace. Otherwise, you know, you don't go through

713
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: the dark to get the more dark, right, you want

714
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: to go to the dark to get the the light.

715
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: And those are the things that get me going.

716
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like your movie and your other

717
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: work it is a bridge. I mean, I feel like

718
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: there's a unique role in not just bridging the gap

719
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: between sort of this physical and this spiritual world, but

720
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: also bridging the gap between the idea of you know,

721
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: consciousness as a big cloud that is not local, you know,

722
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: and and all of us who have grown up thinking

723
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: that it was does not make sense. I mean, I

724
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: feel like you're granting us access through the emotional, not

725
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: through some intellectual process. But you're watching your movie. It

726
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: was like the heartstrings are being pulled. The confused. You know,

727
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: I'm going through with you a medden, fine with what

728
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: you're going through, just by nature of the filmmaking process itself.

729
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: And it's and it opens up in the end in

730
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: a way that makes me, you know, crying, and I'm

731
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: feeling like I suddenly have an open chakra and an

732
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: access to something that I before was inaccessible.

733
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: Oh, I swear to god, it's beautiful, so lovely to hear.

734
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, you're good.

735
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: You're doing the filmmaking thing that.

736
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: Oh I appreciate it.

737
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

738
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: My wife's a smart one and the pretty one. And

739
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: she kept saying, she kept saying, wake Ups is a

740
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: love story. It's a love story. And I didn't realize

741
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: I should know it's a love story. And we don't

742
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: realize when we got on these spiritual pursuits, even if

743
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,479
Speaker 2: we're pull kicking a dragon or someone leaning the charge

744
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 2: on everyone around us. You're kids, everyone, they're going with us.

745
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: It took a while because it was a dark corner

746
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: for me to see that I went through my things

747
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: that everyone around me went through. My wife, mother of

748
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: my beautiful children went with me. And now I have

749
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 2: more understanding of like, oh fuck, did she she got

750
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: to go through this going? Is he schizophrenic? Is he

751
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: an interesting funny schizophrenic? Or is he onto some Yeah?

752
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 2: Or maybe he's onto something? But can we talk about

753
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: something else? You know what I mean? Because when it

754
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: first hits, there is not nothing else. You're like, you

755
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: can't at least for me, I can't understand. And here's

756
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: what I want to say. If this didn't happen to me,

757
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 2: I don't know how open I would be to hear

758
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 2: about this stuff. Right, give it enough pants suffering? Sure,

759
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: because parent suffering is a great wake up thing. Sure, Okay,

760
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: this ain't work and I'm tired of hiting my thumb

761
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: with a hammer for eighteen years. Let me look into it, right.

762
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 2: But to me, it's just so normal. I know for

763
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: some people's like, really, you full of shit? Like I

764
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: have the luxury of being Adam Yack is south By Southwest.

765
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: Adam was going to put out the film. It was

766
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: a dream cometry to sit there at a party and

767
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 2: talk to Adam about pop product, bass playing and bigger

768
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 2: picture of spirituality. I'm very aware that I had forces

769
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: I could have never dreamed upon pushed me to get

770
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: me to a place just by me saying yes.

771
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think now this happened. I mean, no,

772
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm good. Well, I don't want to do this. There's

773
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: a question I have for you about that. So and

774
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: your girlfriend wife now girlfriend at the time, sort of

775
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: was skipped goal and she was your sounding word, which

776
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: she was also your devil's ad to get to some degree.

777
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: It seemed like in the film she's was very protective.

778
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: And so what I found is I think that I

779
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: grew up in a bit of a broken home. It's

780
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: not a spunctual home. I mean, I don't have a

781
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 2: corn in the market. You were talking about struggles you

782
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: had as well. Then on some of conscious level, I

783
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: keep trying to pull together family. So I discovered this

784
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: spiritual community. Well, I don't really want to have a

785
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 2: religious community that was a spiritual one as well. Communities

786
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: are communities. So I think my girlfriend was trying to

787
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: protect me from some of the people that may be

788
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: in this community that are always on the up and

789
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: off right, Well, that's because spiritually is a really easy

790
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: place to hide and you can reinvent yourself. Why I

791
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: was a waiter, Now I wasn't an actor. Now I'm

792
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 2: a spiritual guru. You can do that, and to me,

793
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: that's very, very dangerous, right, And I think that's part

794
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: of what I was seeing when I was kind of

795
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: coming up and it's like, it's interesting, I'm just going

796
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: to go be the weird of to makes films and

797
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: y'all go do y'all.

798
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: That's that's where That's where I That's where you got me.

799
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: Well, what do you mean?

800
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: That's where you you That's where I was hooked because

801
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, all right, so you have a superpower.

802
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: You may have a superpower and that you can see

803
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: things that are that are invisible to other people, but

804
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: your real superpower is your ability to call bullshit. I

805
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: would say, jenis, oh, so appreciate it. No, I'm serious.

806
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: And like I used to tell my friends joke with

807
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: me that, like what you know, what is your superpower?

808
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: And we always have this stupid game of like your

809
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: superpower it's it's always something that's miraculous but also lame.

810
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: And I'm like, my superpower as a director is that

811
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: I can detect bullshit, but only in imaginary circumstances. No,

812
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: but I but you are a bullshit detector, Like I

813
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: think that. And I had a question for you as

814
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: you were making this and as you've moved down this

815
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: path with what you've experienced, compared to the things and

816
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: the people and the different spiritual folks that you've met

817
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: along your journey, were there some people that you came

818
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: across that you're like, you call bullshit, like okay, this

819
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: feels like snake oil, or you know, or some.

820
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: Of them may be unconscious, you know. I think that

821
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: people are constantly trying to hustle. I think there's some

822
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: good people out there that have some unconscious blocks, as

823
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: we all do. I just think I met this incredible

824
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: woman named Catherine Yunt, and she's a channel out of Arizona,

825
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 2: and that's my homegirl. And I've met some great people

826
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: that have doing incredible work. I know should get highlighted

827
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 2: a little bit more. And then I mess some people

828
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: if they're in wake up. I resonate with them on

829
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: some level, but now it's my cup of tea. And also,

830
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: and I hate to go to like tired outages, but

831
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: there is juice in those. It's like some of those

832
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 2: teachers really shift and change my life. But I got

833
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: one I need to get. It's time to move on.

834
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: And so you may see some of that because there

835
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 2: was a Sufi mystic named leel and bond Lee. He said,

836
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 2: what do you want to do with it? And I'm

837
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 2: very naive and oh, I just want to help people

838
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: and you know, be cautious and change the world. And

839
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: he's challenging the whole time. He's like politely, He's like, yeah,

840
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: that's all bullshit. What do you want to?

841
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: Right?

842
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 2: He could just see through the kind of spiritual searching

843
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: one on one, which I do give people a lot

844
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: of space for that because you don't know any better,

845
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: like you're just free falling, like what does this mean?

846
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if they're in the film, I think they're great.

847
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: But it's kind of when I started getting a little

848
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: bit more known and by different rooms and different parties

849
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: and different things, I'd started seeing stuff that it's just

850
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 2: on my cup of tea. Because I think if you're

851
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 2: gonna say, hey, I'm this guy that can do this

852
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: thing and help you do that thing. You should at

853
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: least be in therapy or have some analysis. You should

854
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 2: clean the glass as much as you can clean it, okay,

855
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: And spirituality can sometimes be the wild West. Like you

856
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 2: don't want your like if you see a therapist, I'd

857
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: want my therapist to be in therapy or at least

858
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 2: have some therapy. And so with some of the spiritual stuff,

859
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: which seems dangerous to me, is like you can just

860
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: be Wow. I was a bartender, which great me to be,

861
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: and now I might be the spiritual guru because I

862
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: look really good with this beard and the road works

863
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 2: and my bill looks good. And you can kind of

864
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: transform yourself into something without any kind of not much effort.

865
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: I think what I want to say is I met

866
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 2: some people that really change my life, made me feel grounded.

867
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: I've got friends I met through that experience. I consider

868
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: them dear friends I'm still close to. I need other

869
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 2: people to kind of have a shorthand so I don't

870
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: feel crazy. Yeah yeah, yeah, but again I'm still sure.

871
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: Well I again, well again, that's what that's what it

872
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: is attractive about your story and about about you as

873
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: a storyteller and as as somebody who's who's had this experience.

874
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: Is that I can trust you, you know.

875
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 2: Man, you gotta get me cry. I appreciate the nice words.

876
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 2: I really do.

877
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's true. But I guess this leads me

878
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: to some of the people that you did meet along

879
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: the way that you know. So you started this with

880
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: this experience and then and you've come through and searching,

881
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 1: and in your searching you've met some people that maybe

882
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: spoke to you and spoke authentically and you're from what

883
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: you saw, and other people who maybe were less So

884
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: talk about some of the things you've learned, some of

885
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: the things that you've taken away, or some of the

886
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: ideas or perspectives that you encountered in your searching to

887
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: figure out what the fuck was going on. Yeah, that's

888
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: still that that made you go, Okay, I'm I don't

889
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: need to doubt this.

890
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: You know. My why my girlfriend at the time I

891
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: couldn't have She was a mirror for me, and I

892
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: was a mirror for her. And so the drama drama

893
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: kid and me of when to go around the world

894
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: and go through the big doors and talk to the

895
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 2: Lama and all that stuff. I probably could have done

896
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 2: this a little bit simpler if I just was more present,

897
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: more present in my relationship, because seeking can also be addictive,

898
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: and so the spiritual seeker, cool, you get the answer,

899
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep seeking.

900
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: So that becomes a new identity here.

901
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: Okay, all this God's stuff, spirit stuff, while the world

902
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: stuff is real. Yeah sure, sure, yes real, And so

903
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: I would have people reach out to me. He's like,

904
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: oh my God, I saw your film. I'm like you,

905
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: I've been doing DMT for seven years. I'm like, okay,

906
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: you having fun. Well, no, I'm trying to get closer

907
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: to God. Well so are you sure? Yeah? Yeah, well

908
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 2: are you trying to or be like I'm trying to

909
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: see if God's real and I've seen God's roll and

910
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: I keep doing it, and so they're like, I'm doing

911
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: the DMT so I can heal. No, No, I feel

912
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: like you're doing the DMT because you don't want to

913
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: get high now that there's anything wrong with it. So

914
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: it kind of helped me to split things apart and

915
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 2: just kind of get to the essence of things. It

916
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: definitely crushed whatever identity I thought I had. You know,

917
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 2: I was probably an arrogant little punk at one point.

918
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 2: It kind of broke me of that. It helped me

919
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: call myself out more of my bullshit, which we all have.

920
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: It.

921
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: It helped me try to and I would think, so

922
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: drop in deeper in love with my girlfriend wife, and

923
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 2: it would it just it brought up a lot of stuff.

924
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: I realized I have a lot of work to do

925
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 2: on myself. So it presented this is the way through

926
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: the one thing that was hard for me. And I

927
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: would talk to these lamas and mystics and shaman you know,

928
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: oh my, all these people, and I would tell them

929
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: all these crazy stories like yeah, that's cute. So yeah,

930
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 2: but bye bye none, No, that's cute. But don't you

931
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: want to know I don't want to talk about it.

932
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: I was like why, and I could going, you have

933
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: to dismiss this phenomenon. You have to get through this phase.

934
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: You're in a face. You're getting high. I was saying this,

935
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: by the DMT, you're getting high on the phenomenon. The

936
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: phenomenon is on the thing. The thing is God and

937
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 2: then all this. But you're you're distracted. You either getting high.

938
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 2: Had this great experience and this happened. This quiz has happened. Okay,

939
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 2: that's cute gathering and I'm special or I'm different. I said, no, no,

940
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: this is is fine. You have to outgrow this. So

941
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: maybe it took a year or two longer than I

942
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: would care to have meant to. I'll grow it. It

943
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: was pretty all consuming. But my patient girlfriend watched me

944
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: go through this. He'll get there, he'll get there, or

945
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: he schizophrenic. So part of the search was am I okay?

946
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 2: And then when they said I'm okay? Wherever that really means.

947
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 2: There wasn't a tumor or snaps, this weren't miss fire

948
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: and blah bah blah. My Mara is her name would

949
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: call it the doctor House part of the film. Are

950
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: you okay? Exdically yes? And then what's next? And so

951
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,479
Speaker 2: you keep peeling these layers and so in my mind,

952
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: what is enough to satisfy this itch of seeking? Yeah? Okay?

953
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: And then you dismissed with the phenomenon. Okay, Then there's

954
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: God okay, Then what does that mean? Okay? Then what

955
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: does that mean? There's you get to a point. I

956
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: think we kept that on a film. Okay, I'm at peace,

957
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: at peace, that's what we're looking for right. We want

958
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: to say is happiness, No, no, it's it's peace. So

959
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 2: at the end, I feel like there was a level

960
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 2: of peace, acceptance, integration. But when did I learn I

961
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: mean how I learned every pay I mean, it's just

962
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: it was such an accelerated experience in education in a

963
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: matter of years. It made me look back at shadow

964
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: trauma to deal with, Look at how I deal with

965
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: other people, Look how I look at communities, look at

966
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: how I look at identity. It was you know, yeah,

967
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: I'm never going to answer this whole question, but yeah,

968
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 2: it was definitely a whole lot of stuff I was

969
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 2: trying to understand Untie and integrate.

970
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you you, I mean bringing that to the

971
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: forefront for others to see. I think it's so special.

972
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: I mean I keep saying that. I'm sorry, no, I

973
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: appreciate it. I mean it's definitely not a vanity piece,

974
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You look at it like

975
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: this is messy, but a spiritual waking is messy. Life

976
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: is messy. We just want to show that. So when men,

977
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: especially men, was we're way behind on this. If we

978
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: can be vulnerable like, well this is how you did it?

979
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: Oh Okay, it's messy.

980
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

981
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: You know, when I first started doing a live again,

982
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm going to do near death experiences and see,

983
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: you know how many people have these these sort of

984
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: autibody experiences. And then just because I've always been curious

985
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: about that my whole life. But then it expanded very

986
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: quickly into like, no, actually, there is something that I

987
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: and I recalled this from my time as a culture

988
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: and anthropology student, going, you know, there's there's a liminality

989
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: to these things. There's a point when the old self

990
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: dies and the new self is not yet born, and

991
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: there's this in between period when you're fucking confused and

992
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: or learning how to walk again, or whatever the trauma,

993
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: whatever the thing is that you're having to rebuild. That

994
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: could be an Aha moment that happens like that, or

995
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: it could be an eighty year process of rebuilding and

996
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: finally entering through that new threshold crossing over, whether that's

997
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: through death crossing that threshold, or whether it's the thresholds

998
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: in life of learning how to rebuild this meat avatar

999
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: in some way, or your ego death. You know, there's

1000
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: these different types of liminal periods or liminal states that

1001
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: you have to kind of walk through. Yeah, I just

1002
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: think that your your story follows that those sort of

1003
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: mythical elements, those storytelling elements that hold true for me,

1004
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: you know that are not They're not just things that

1005
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: we used to write scripts, but there are things that

1006
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: are innately human of the breakdown of the ego and

1007
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: then and then having to go through this challenge and

1008
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: then coming out the other side with something that you've gleaned.

1009
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of looking at you as the hero

1010
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: going take that word with it, I going, Okay, what

1011
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: did what? What are the what are the gemstones that

1012
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 1: you got that he retrieved from your journey?

1013
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: You know?

1014
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, no, I I mean, and what would you

1015
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: for other people who are in this liminal period or

1016
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: other people who are now seeking any advice.

1017
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: For these Here's the thing on the Andy thing. I

1018
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 2: told her friend I was coming to do this. Well,

1019
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: you didn't die, I said, Well, but I like how

1020
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 2: you put that. Well, in a way, a spiritual awakening

1021
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: is a death unless you're just doing it backwards. And

1022
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: then good luck, because you know there is check and balances.

1023
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: There's this woman I know that did have an NDE.

1024
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: Her name is doctor Mary Neil. We're working on a

1025
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: project together. I interviewed her, did a story with her

1026
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: when I was a show with Oprah. She died kayaking,

1027
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: she was to every thirty minutes, came back. She's a

1028
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: scientist doctor. Yeah, sure, and all this wild stuff happened.

1029
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: It was done on her. She had to integrate that

1030
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: and figure all that out and talk about a hero's journey.

1031
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: I mean, this woman was on it. But her big

1032
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: takeaway was trust to trust. And so I've kind of

1033
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 2: I don't know if I coined it, but I would

1034
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: talk about, well, I'm post faith. I mean, I used

1035
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 2: to be a cactus, but I've been surfing the Pacific.

1036
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: Then you come out of these other characters. I was surfing,

1037
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 2: it was awesome, they were playing great music. What are

1038
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: you talking about? So I'm post faith on that. I

1039
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: know the ocean is real. The other cactus is not

1040
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: so much. But Mary, what she taught me was, well,

1041
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: that's cute. Post faith. You've seen something you know it's real.

1042
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: But for me, the struggle was but do you try

1043
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 2: trust it? Do you trust it? I'm not good emotional

1044
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: thinking about this because I fail at it all the time.

1045
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: Do you trust the plan? That you signed up for

1046
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: that they're engineering and if you want to call a god,

1047
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to call a guy has laid out for you.

1048
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: Trust it. And so that's the biggest one for me.

1049
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 2: It is God real. Of course, spirit world wor yeah, sure,

1050
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: who cares, you know what I mean? But do you

1051
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 2: trust the divine that's going to guide you through this?

1052
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 2: No matter when you're walking down the street on fire

1053
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: or you didn't get the money back on the tax

1054
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 2: return you wanted, do you trust it? Okay, it's not

1055
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: a daily struggle, but it's definitely where I always go

1056
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 2: to And I don't one hundred percent trust that, and

1057
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: I'm working to do that. But I think if your

1058
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: completely in alignment with upstairs, you're trusting that process.

1059
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: I heard someone recently. I don't know if it was

1060
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: a book I read or what. I'm sorry, I can't

1061
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: do it justice with a proper quote, but it was paraphrasing.

1062
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: It was like, once you realize that everything that happens

1063
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: to you, whether good or bad, is for your benefit,

1064
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: then you can relax a little bit. Oh yeah, you

1065
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: can like stop fighting. Well, I'd appreciate the paraphrase because

1066
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: I can relate to that, and I think that's the thing.

1067
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: When I would give talks, I would curse like a

1068
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: sailor always said, what are you doing? I was like, well,

1069
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm either probably uncomfortable or I'm trying to go. Look,

1070
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: we don't have to be too holy about our yoga stances.

1071
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: We're all in these meat bags, you know, doing our business,

1072
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: so let's don't make it too whatever.

1073
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 2: We're all in this thing together. We all have to

1074
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 2: trust it. We don't have to we do what we want,

1075
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: but to trust it will help get us Sue. This

1076
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 2: helps me connect upstairs, so I don't have to just

1077
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 2: watch movies or list of music. We can have a

1078
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: real conversation. We can reflect on things that got us here.

1079
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: And I think so many people are so terrified and

1080
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: checked out. I was like, I'm just going to keep

1081
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: looking at the sky mall. I'm not gonna look at

1082
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: the plane wing on fire. Zoom out a little bit

1083
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 2: and you can see all these million things that had

1084
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: to come together for this one interaction to happen. You're like,

1085
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 2: there's no coincidence, there's none. You can talk about free

1086
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 2: will or predestin all you want. I'm not do that,

1087
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: but if you can pull back. You can see a magic,

1088
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 2: you can see a pattern, you can see a thing. Yeah,

1089
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: and so I think when they hear about your stories,

1090
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 2: oh I wish. That sounds painful, but like, man, there's

1091
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: so many things, and that kind of showed you a

1092
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: bigger picture. Or mine is that we'll just do it

1093
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 2: your own life. Just zoom out a little bit. Yeah, yeah,

1094
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: trust that that that's the big one. To trust it.

1095
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 2: And also, and this is where I seem like a

1096
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 2: Hallmark card is really honor the love that you have

1097
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 2: and be grateful and just be grateful. So these are

1098
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: the things I try to work on, but they're boring.

1099
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 2: How do you know when when to trust or when

1100
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: to well I try to do it all the time.

1101
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: I mean, or how do you know what to trust?

1102
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: How do you know if it's you know, how do

1103
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: you know to go? This is a weird question, but like,

1104
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 2: when do you know you're in line?

1105
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: Or when do you know that you're aligned with something

1106
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: that is.

1107
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: Or here's benefit. I got a that's a weird question.

1108
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 2: I got a weird story. Okay, so I'm not a

1109
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 2: Rush fan, but I'm gonna get us there. So twenty

1110
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 2: one twelve is a record they did apparently. Yeah, I'm

1111
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: a Rush fan, Okay, I mean I think we're still

1112
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 2: getting along great, But twelve twenty one and twenty one

1113
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: twelve has been something I've scribbled on my notebooks as

1114
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: a kid. They're in pretty much every password that I have.

1115
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: Twelve twenty one or twenty one twelve. Yeah, really twelve

1116
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: twenty one. Me and my wife tried to get pregnant

1117
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 2: for years. In years and years, I only get pregnant.

1118
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 2: Baby is born, and it's a rough berth. He's not brave,

1119
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 2: and when he's born, and so my wife is a

1120
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: bless her heart has been tied in my wagon. I'm

1121
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: going through all this spiritual stuff, saying all this crazy

1122
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: stuff that's happened, and still just devoted and loves me

1123
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: as is my son's born. He's not breathed, and he's gray.

1124
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: I can fild the top of my head tingling like

1125
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: I'm just going to jump out of my body because

1126
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 2: I'm so such in trauma. We have ten years to

1127
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: get this kid here. I'm looking at my wife. She's

1128
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: wide eyed, she's bleeding everywhere. I think that she's in

1129
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 2: trouble as well. I look at my son. Not breathing.

1130
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: He's gray, and I yell, what fucking time is it?

1131
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: And the nurse says, twelve twenty one. And I've been

1132
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 2: writing about that since i was seven. Those numbers pardon

1133
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 2: me one second, Yeah, those are the cornets. And my son,

1134
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 2: that soul decided to come into the meat sack, to

1135
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 2: come into my wife's body, to lay in front of me,

1136
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 2: who I thought was dead, twelve twenty one. It was

1137
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 2: a miracle. My wife saw it all. She said, oh shit,

1138
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: like she gasped. She knew what that meant. My son

1139
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: recovered and he's doing fantastic. But I didn't know that

1140
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 2: at the time, but I heard those numbers to trust.

1141
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 3: It was.

1142
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 2: The hardest thing I'd ever experienced seeing my son and

1143
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: I thought I was dead. He's great, maniac, He's got

1144
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: great Harry runs around screams yeah six years old, while

1145
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 2: I'm at sixth thriving. But that was such a moment

1146
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 2: that was orchestrated from upstairs for my wife to see

1147
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 2: without a doubt that I'm not mentally ill. I've been

1148
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,959
Speaker 2: talking about this and my son, who I prayed about

1149
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: for years, he was laying there gray. He came back,

1150
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: he started breathing. He's doing great. So that was the

1151
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 2: trust element. If I did, if she said three seventeen,

1152
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been able to navigate that moment. Yeah,

1153
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: I feel like I was trying to pop out of

1154
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: the top of my head. I was so traumatized by

1155
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: what I was seeing. But no, we all made it.

1156
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: We all stayed so without having that foundation of trusting

1157
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: and these silly numbers, I've been drawn on folders since

1158
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: I was a kid. My wife knowsits on every passco code.

1159
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 2: My son de signed. That's when he's going to show up. Yeah,

1160
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: that nurse is going to make sure she looks at

1161
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: that time to tell me that. So that's the element

1162
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 2: of trust. I mean, I don't talk about that very

1163
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: much anymore, but yeah, doubt to me was nothing less

1164
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 2: than a miracle. My wife saw it, I saw it,

1165
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: my son saw it, and in my opinion, we all

1166
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: signed up for this experience. And so trusting is not easy, man.

1167
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 2: You know, having faith you can. I have faith this

1168
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 2: will work out. Thoughts and prayers, eh, fuck you, I mean,

1169
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: that's your half ass in it. I get there. And

1170
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: trust is like the real feet and uh yeah, man,

1171
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 2: don't I don't know why thought I should say this,

1172
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 2: but I think that we're all going to go through

1173
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: unspeakable pain or we're going to go through hopefully boundless joy.

1174
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: This is a gig we signed up for, and so

1175
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 2: having that foundation of trusting upstairs, and whether my son

1176
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 2: made it or not, I knew I was in the

1177
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: presence of God. Yeah, and that's that's heavy duty, man.

1178
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: That's thank you for sharing.

1179
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 2: Man to this. I no, it's like, this is what

1180
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 2: we're dealing with. You thinking this is dress rehearsal or cosplay.

1181
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 2: It's like, no, this is what we're doing. And be

1182
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 2: able to bear witness. Yeah, this is fucking it to

1183
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: be able to bear witness to something, you know what

1184
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 2: I mean? It's like that resonates with me on two.

1185
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 2: I will one add birthing stories. They're traumatic, but I

1186
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: won't get into this now. But when Patrice died the

1187
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 2: ballerina that I talk to my son about, so many

1188
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 2: things you know, happened around in and around her passing

1189
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: that the stories like that that were just and it

1190
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 2: was it was just a kind of going, are you

1191
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 2: so arrogant Dan that you can't that you believe so

1192
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: much in this atheism or whatever it is that you've

1193
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: inherited from your upbringing, Like, are you so arrogant that

1194
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: you can't or scared that you can't just accept these

1195
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 2: things as prompts, as signposts, as like hello, this is

1196
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: this is not a coincidence. You know, I don't believe

1197
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: in them. Yeah, you don't either. I don't know, but

1198
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: you used to.

1199
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: I used to taste to write everything fucking off and

1200
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: right on. I get it, I get it, and I'm

1201
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm and I finally got the point like well, and

1202
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: it was and it was scared to let any friends

1203
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: of mine know that I might have some faith. Yeah,

1204
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, because everybody's so cynical and dogmatic about their

1205
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:06,919
Speaker 1: own shit.

1206
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: And I'm so bored though, right, Cynicism like it works

1207
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: in your twenties. You can get some cool pretty days,

1208
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: some pretty girls or guys being cynical. The best bands

1209
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: are cynical. But you get to certain he's like this

1210
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 2: is boring, right, and it's predictable. I mean, cenism is predictable.

1211
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: Well, Cynicism is great if you if you punch it

1212
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: towards the things that are false and the false ceremonies

1213
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: and the false politicians.

1214
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 2: And the false.

1215
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: It's good, it's good to look at the things made

1216
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: of man that are fractured and broken and patched together

1217
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: and stupid. But when you look at the nature of

1218
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: reality and apply that ship to the nature, that cynicism

1219
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: of the nature reality, then you're really missing out.

1220
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 4: Man.

1221
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I wanna be that guy was angry early

1222
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: in the sixty four or he was just angry. He's

1223
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 2: funny if you're just angry like it seems. Look, man,

1224
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 2: I am a reincarnation or whatever you want to call

1225
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 2: a guy do these experiences. Yeah, so I would use

1226
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 2: to meditate. Yeah, my wife's my hero, she really is.

1227
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: I'd meditate and I go see her in our East

1228
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: Village apartment. I call her a different name. She'd be

1229
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: a different woman, two different names, and she knows I'm

1230
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 2: committed to her. But when I would be in these

1231
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: altered states, I'd pick up on her somewhere else. And

1232
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 2: it's not to have this is not to have phenomena

1233
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 2: one on one. That's not my point. My point is

1234
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 2: for me, it kind of taught me to chill out.

1235
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 2: It's a long way around the bin. Let's keep going

1236
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 2: around the beIN hopefully getting sharper, smarter, more compassionate, more

1237
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 2: open hearted, less mouth breathing, more inclusive. So I take

1238
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: all that seriously, not just for my own soul's evolution,

1239
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: but I'm sure that's part of it. But I would

1240
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 2: meditate and hear, and I would be in these other

1241
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: situations with a different name.

1242
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: And you know, and what is its as in your intuition,

1243
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: is that you'd been there before, or that you oh

1244
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: parallel experience.

1245
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:55,479
Speaker 2: I don't Well, people say there's no time and space,

1246
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: it's all right now, say yeah, it sounds cute. You

1247
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: don't know what that means. You know, when people say

1248
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 2: that I'm just giving me a spiritual tagline, it sounds good.

1249
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's running parallel. I don't know

1250
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: if it's passing on his future. But what I do

1251
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 2: know is I've done this. I'm here in other places.

1252
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: I'm bigger than this guy in this meat suit. And

1253
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 2: if the point is to get sharper and it closer

1254
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 2: to upstairs, which I tend to believe that's the case,

1255
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: I like the idea that my pals are gonna be

1256
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 2: around every bend, you know, mm hm, and do this

1257
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: whole life cynical and angry. I don't know that that's

1258
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: where the next go, but right, people, yeah, yeah, it

1259
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: sucks mostly attics. It sucks due to my programming my childhood.

1260
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 2: My mother, God bless her, she passed about a year

1261
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: and a half because she was an attic. So I

1262
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 2: also believe that you keep pulling in situations. This is

1263
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 2: some of Catherine's work that she taught me. Did you

1264
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: keep pulling in situations? That hill the original sin, the

1265
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: original wound. My mom was an attict, So guess what

1266
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: I figured out on the female side. My wife is

1267
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 2: not an attic. We all the guys in my life,

1268
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 2: I'd bring one in and he's an attic, let him go.

1269
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: Another one was I'm trying to heal that first thing.

1270
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: So you know, some people decide out of my mind

1271
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: and then some really weird shit It would happen to

1272
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 2: them or some bad stuff and I'd be a phone

1273
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: call and they'd be more open to hear it. Right,

1274
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 2: I learned, don't push this stuff, so I relate to

1275
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 2: you is like, hey, I don't really want to tell

1276
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 2: my punk rock friends. I may be starting to get

1277
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: a little bit of hope because I'm seeing a pattern

1278
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: or seeing stuff that's beyond explanation. Right, that's a hell

1279
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: of a good place to start. But what it's I mean,

1280
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 2: you've gone through real loss. This is like horrible pain

1281
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: with the Claudia is Patrice. I'm so sorry, Patrice fun. Yeah,

1282
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: you know you don't get that understanding easy. You had

1283
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: to go through real sounds like sorrow, but then.

1284
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: You see there was a maximum grief. Yeah, and that's

1285
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: the word we were living together.

1286
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah.

1287
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, I mean, you know, like things she

1288
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: had hair down to hear a couple of days before

1289
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 1: she passed, she cut it all off, shaved her head.

1290
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

1291
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: She went home the reason she was in the car

1292
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: accident and she went home from Atlanta to Charlotte, North

1293
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: Carolina to say goodbye to her her her father, who

1294
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: was an abusive Vietnam veteran and an addict. And she

1295
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: went home to say and she had gotten the scholarship,

1296
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: the youngest person to ever get a scholarship to cal Arts,

1297
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: and she was gonna head out there for her career

1298
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: in dancing. And she drove home to Charlotte to tell

1299
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: her dad to sit with him and say. And that

1300
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: was the night before she died, she sat with and said,

1301
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: I'm no longer gonna enable you. I'm no longer gonna

1302
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: be you know, a part of this. If you want

1303
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: to kill yourself, you can, but I'm free of it.

1304
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go, you know, have my own life. And

1305
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: and everybody that saw her that night, she was glowing.

1306
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: She was radiant, you know. And I could tell you

1307
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: twenty five such stories. And I had my own experiences,

1308
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, around that that weekend leading up to and

1309
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: then after that. You know what, I just who am

1310
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: I to to.

1311
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 2: To like?

1312
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: How arrogant do I have to be to sort of

1313
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: call that coincidence or whatever?

1314
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

1315
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it just it just set me on a

1316
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: different path of looking. It was like re examining the

1317
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: things that I before kind of said, yeah, well maybe

1318
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: there's this or that, and I'm going, oh, you know,

1319
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: this is real. This is yeah, I'm bigger than this.

1320
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: We're all bigger than this.

1321
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 2: But what's your take on her? I mean, that's why

1322
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 2: she wanted to go, cut off the toxic relationship and

1323
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 2: free herself from that. I mean, I don't know if

1324
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: you have she had.

1325
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: The scholarship that she was. She was beginning to new

1326
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: I mean, in so many ways, she was transforming in

1327
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: the physical world. I just know that she was preparing,

1328
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: you know, unconsciously for what you know was a bigger

1329
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: a bigger threshold to cross. I just know, yeah, she was,

1330
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: she was aware, she was preparing, she was doing all

1331
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 1: this stuff. You read her journals, she just she just

1332
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: as the days get closer, she was struggling with a

1333
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: lot of things, and as jealousy and fears and different things,

1334
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: and she was becoming she was at she waiting, and

1335
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: as she got closer to it, you could see this

1336
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: piece started to happen, especially in the final days in

1337
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: her journal, I had an experience where I was grieving.

1338
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: It had been about nine months or something since she

1339
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: had passed, and I was just still in the thick

1340
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: of it, still just I mean, I had a lot

1341
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: of friends around me, and I was very nurtured, and

1342
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 1: I was starting to kind of come back into myself

1343
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I'd be so spaced out in

1344
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: so much in shock. She had this journal that she

1345
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: had just started, and I didn't know she had started.

1346
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: It was just an empty journal, and so I started.

1347
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: I had started writing in this journal. I was writing

1348
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: in it, you know, just to chronicle my grief and

1349
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: my grieving and everything. And then I got to this

1350
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: point where I saw there was something on the back

1351
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: of the page, and I flipped the page and there

1352
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: was upside down her one and only journal entry into

1353
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: this new journal of hers. She had started from the

1354
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: other side, and so and so I turned it upside

1355
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: down where you know, I flowed flipped it around, and

1356
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: it was the message was Frau intents and purposes, a

1357
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: letter to me saying that she would love me forever,

1358
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: saying that she was always going to be a part

1359
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: of me and with my life as best I could.

1360
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: But it was on the same date, so she had

1361
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,959
Speaker 1: signed it, and it was exactly one year earlier. Oh wow,

1362
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was the same date as the

1363
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: date that I was writing my journalatry.

1364
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 2: So it was just like, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah,

1365
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 2: you know, and I and it was just like, and.

1366
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: There's there's more, there's more stories, but these are just

1367
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: some things that and I look back and I was like, well,

1368
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: I have always been fascinated with life and death. I

1369
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: took a religious studies course in college that was dealing

1370
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: creatively with death. It was doctor French. He used to

1371
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: be a a Methodist minister and became a Buddhist monk professor.

1372
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, I.

1373
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: But I love so much Jonas that you're you know,

1374
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: I've said it throughout this interview, but I just love

1375
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: so much that you have this sort of like yeah,

1376
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 1: and so what Yeah, So there's spectacle Aristotle talks about

1377
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: in the poetics and stories. He talks about the first

1378
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: and most important thing is plot.

1379
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 2: Plot is action?

1380
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, action a plot at the same thing, there's not

1381
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: you know, what you choose to do. The decisions your

1382
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: character makes define them, and whatever happens to them as

1383
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 1: a result of their actions has to be truthful. Theme

1384
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: borders on propaganda because theme, if you go with theme first,

1385
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: then you're gonna bend your character's actions to fit whatever

1386
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:40,959
Speaker 1: theme you want, whatever political box you want to stand

1387
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: on or whatever. So theme is dangerous when it becomes

1388
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: when it goes first. Theme is something you'd glean later.

1389
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: But everything has to be action. Everything has to be plots.

1390
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: And then spectacle on top of that is the least

1391
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: important thing in your you know, the car crash, the

1392
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: fire and whatever and I love how it's sort of

1393
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: you're able to look at your experience to go maybe

1394
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: through the hell of others, but to go, yeah, and

1395
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 1: so what well, But that I mean like, Okay, there's

1396
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: the spectacle of the visions, and there's the spectacle of

1397
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: the things that are happening to you. But you're I

1398
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: feel like you're able to help us, the rest of us,

1399
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that, yeah, there's more to this reality that

1400
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 1: meets the eye, and not to get caught up in

1401
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: the spectacle of it.

1402
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: I I appreciate it.

1403
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: Does that make sense?

1404
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't. It only took me twenty years to get here.

1405
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 2: I wouldn't shut up talking about this. At first, I

1406
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 2: credit my wife. I credit Catherine. I credit it's another

1407
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 2: person named Carl wood Hall these a great, great intuitive here.

1408
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 2: I credit Lama Siriadas. He's his big Lama character I met.

1409
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: I tell him all this crazy stuff and he's like, yeah, cool,

1410
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 2: I said, But but is it?

1411
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: No?

1412
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: No, I get it, but yeah, but you know, what

1413
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 2: are you going to do with it? Are you going

1414
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 2: to be a service? I love to be a service.

1415
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's bullshit. I was caught in that phenomenon.

1416
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 2: So I get it. It's seductive. Uh, it's a roller coaster.

1417
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're here for a reason, so I wouldn't

1418
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 2: have said this fifteen years ago. But yeah, it's just

1419
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 2: a thing. Oh that happened, Okay, cool.

1420
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: Would you have anything to offer to the skeptics.

1421
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 2: No, I've got a couple guys.

1422
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 1: Maybe they wouldn't be able to hear anyway.

1423
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 2: Well, I just it's not my job, and I don't

1424
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: I've got a friend, another friend who has a lot

1425
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 2: of anxiety. It's getting older. He wants to have a

1426
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 2: drink talk about the stuff I answered, and you don't

1427
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 2: want to hear it. I was like, okay, and he

1428
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 2: just I think I talked about him earlier. If he's

1429
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 2: going to bed with a bunch of anxiety, then we

1430
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 2: talk about it. But he's just waiting for me to

1431
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 2: sell him something or get him on some kind of

1432
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 2: spiritual path. And it's like, it's not my job to

1433
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 2: convince somebody. And I've got thick enough skin as someone

1434
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 2: thinks I'm a highly functional, it schizophrenic or full of

1435
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 2: shit trying to play any copin. I don't care. Being

1436
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,560
Speaker 2: afraid of this thing and having an anxiety around it

1437
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 2: makes sense. I certainly still have part of mind. I

1438
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 2: just know when I pop out of the meat suit,

1439
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 2: then may be fine. H I have no doubt about that,

1440
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 2: which I need to appreciate what side of the gift

1441
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: that is. That's a huge gift. I know I'm fine.

1442
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 2: I know I'll be with my wife and kids. Blah

1443
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,919
Speaker 2: blah blah. And if my experiences are any kind of indicator,

1444
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 2: we're just going around at a round. We'll do it again,

1445
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 2: We'll do it again, We'll do it again. So it

1446
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,719
Speaker 2: takes pressure off not to have to get five Emmys

1447
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 2: and a Tony and all this bullshit now, even though

1448
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: that's fun to play with. But it's just I don't know, man,

1449
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 2: I don't understand boredom. Yeah, bored yeah yeah. Board. There

1450
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 2: was a book I read called, I think it's called

1451
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 2: Journey of Souls. None of these books have great names,

1452
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 2: but God bless a guy named Michael Newton, the guy

1453
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 2: that wrote Many Lives, Many Masters. I forget a guy's name.

1454
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 2: He kind of got all the credit. But there's a

1455
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: book earlier called Journey of Souls by Michael Newton. The

1456
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 2: first teacher I had had me read it when I

1457
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 2: was telling them all the spinomenon. I'd been going through

1458
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 2: this for about a month. I read it and it

1459
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: talks about, you know, there's a plan where you get

1460
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:58,560
Speaker 2: the meat sued. There's a certain range of characters, and

1461
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 2: that's probably why you're so in a store and study story,

1462
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 2: because ultimately this is a story. I'm playing this guy,

1463
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 2: you're playing that guy. Pull the camera out. There'll be

1464
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 2: a camera crew around us to pull the camera crew,

1465
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 2: pull the camera further out than another camera's like a

1466
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 2: Fractal's a dream within a dream within a dream. At

1467
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 2: least that's my take, and that might be why, I mean,

1468
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 2: you know your shit with all these archetypes and how

1469
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 2: the stuff lines up, because my thought is that's what

1470
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 2: we're doing here. I'm just playing this guy named Jonas,

1471
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 2: you're playing you, she's playing her behind the glass.

1472
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: All the worlds indeed to stage. So yeah, so yeah,

1473
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: but going around and around, and.

1474
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 2: Well, I just figure I'll keep doing it until I'm done, Yeah,

1475
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: until I figure something out. Almost like a Stephen King book,

1476
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 2: this next time maybe have an extra piece, or next

1477
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 2: time I have less of a piece. So I'm just

1478
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 2: not in a hurry. Is a lightnment real I have

1479
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 2: no idea. I don't care. I'm just trying to be

1480
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 2: in a part of the spiritual taglines, trying to be present, grateful,

1481
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 2: more loving. I like to make a couple of things.

1482
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: Hopefully I can make a difference while I'm still down here.

1483
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 2: But I'm not a cynic. I am concerned about where

1484
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 2: we are is a country and a plan. I'm really concerned. Yeah,

1485
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 2: i'd be concerned without kids. I mean, this is what

1486
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 2: we're doing. But I also believe just because I can't

1487
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 2: see who the wall does, I mean, there's a solution coming.

1488
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 2: And so it's not foolish optimism. I just know we

1489
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 2: have to get through. We got to dig all the

1490
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 2: bodies up so we can look at it, if we

1491
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 2: can be at peace with it, and then hopefully things

1492
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 2: will start to shift.

1493
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: That's something I feel like. You know, it's a dark

1494
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 1: world right now, and there's a lot of suffering, and

1495
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot more people suffering than ever before. And

1496
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: I wonder if I wonder if this wake up is,

1497
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,560
Speaker 1: you know, in alignment with something that's happening, with some

1498
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 1: critical level of consciousness that we're all going to break

1499
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 1: through or hopefully, I mean that's my dream and that's

1500
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 1: a fantasy.

1501
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 2: But I mean I like to sign up to be

1502
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: on that boat with the ends, like while we're down here. No,

1503
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 2: it's it's wild.

1504
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: I interviewed Rick Doblin, who's the guy was telling you

1505
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: about the his maps Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies psychedlic Science.

1506
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 2: Does it do the d MT drip to map out

1507
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 2: the other world? No? Okay, have you heard about this guy?

1508
01:11:59,200 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: No?

1509
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:01,759
Speaker 2: Okay, talk you about off Okay, it's bananas.

1510
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 1: No. Rick is just a guy who's been very much

1511
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: in the forefront of legalizing psychedelics for therapeutic use. Interestingly,

1512
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: these days he has a lot more support from the

1513
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: military and from police because they're so traumatized and they're

1514
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: finding that these trips to do psychedelics in other countries

1515
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 1: helps him with their PTSD. But he has this idea

1516
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,560
Speaker 1: of net zero trauma. So he's talking about all the

1517
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: trauma that is generational trauma that we inherit from going

1518
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 1: back to the Holocaust or whatever, and how these the

1519
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: generational trauma continues, and he's got this cool idea of

1520
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: achieving that zero trauma by twenty seventy, which is not

1521
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: that there's no trauma. It's just that we're no longer

1522
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:46,799
Speaker 1: adding to the bucket of trauma.

1523
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

1524
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 1: And you know there are many tools along that path

1525
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: to do that for humanity. One of them is within

1526
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: the right satin setting. It's psychedelic, but it's not the

1527
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 1: only one. Yeah, by far, you know, breathing, I mean help.

1528
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: But anyway that I just left his idea of net

1529
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: zero trauma. You know, our conversation with Jonas l Rod

1530
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: will continue after this break, and we're back in the

1531
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: studio with filmmaker Jonahs l Rod.

1532
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 2: After the week up at a TV show which talked

1533
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 2: about alternative modalities healing modalities, I made that with Catherine Yatt,

1534
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 2: who I was talking about earlier, where we present em

1535
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 2: d R to a woman who has survived a horrific

1536
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 2: shooting in Aurora, Colorado, and she'd been doing talk therapy

1537
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: and the DR was actually able to move the needle

1538
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 2: and help this woman. So I love that all these

1539
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 2: other alternium modalities are showing up to help. The other

1540
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 2: one was a brilliant, beautiful guy at PTSD hypervigilance. He

1541
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 2: did equine therapy to try to help with his hypervisionance.

1542
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 2: Like the horses are psychic as hell, and they were

1543
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 2: able to kind of reflect where he was. But I've

1544
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 2: heard a lot of good things have happened through psychedelics

1545
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: to try to help people transcend and kind of terms

1546
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:29,879
Speaker 2: with ada.

1547
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: How do you as far as integration, Like do you

1548
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:36,560
Speaker 1: have any daily practices any do you do anything consistently

1549
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: to help you with How don't you reminders for yourself

1550
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: on posting notes on the fridge.

1551
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,639
Speaker 2: Like what what do you? He says, don't be an asshole.

1552
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I'll try that one. It's a big

1553
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 2: buzt enough for me. I gues said. I get this

1554
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 2: scutt a really hard documentary with kids that have suffered,

1555
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 2: and I just try to be grateful. Yeah. Yeah, nothing

1556
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 2: really cinematic or even auditorily interesting, but like I tried

1557
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 2: to ground. Like when I came home from this last

1558
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 2: document me and my wife fought daily and I called

1559
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 2: my friend Carl, like, Carl, like I'm out of my mind.

1560
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, your energy is still intertwined with these

1561
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 2: people that are suffering New York, and you have to

1562
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 2: cook that energy. So you need to go ground. You

1563
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 2: need to go you know, get the energy off you

1564
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 2: and you should probably go apologize to your wife. I

1565
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 2: was like, that's fair. I can do all that stuff.

1566
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 2: So I try to be conscious of my energy. If

1567
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 2: I need to vent something out of a problem i'm having.

1568
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 2: I don't believe in this whole. Let's just be love

1569
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:29,720
Speaker 2: and light. We're just gonna have love and light, right

1570
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 2: and be spirituals like nice bullshit. Yeah, I'll vent it out.

1571
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 2: I get out of my system, but I won't make

1572
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 2: a prey out of it. I think it's a younger

1573
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,600
Speaker 2: angry punk. I'd make a prey it out of it,

1574
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 2: and I would keep going pushing that energy. But if

1575
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,639
Speaker 2: we believe in oneness, which I do, we're all connected.

1576
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:47,879
Speaker 2: That's how the psycho phenomenal stuff works. We're all connected.

1577
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 2: We're connected. We're just in eight billion different bodies, different biology.

1578
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 2: So right, I try to just be mindful of that.

1579
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 2: I know sounds boring, but you know, not say may

1580
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 2: not hear you, or but they'll fill you on a level.

1581
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 2: You know, you leave the room and I leave the room,

1582
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:04,679
Speaker 2: you guys start talking smack about me. It's like, yeah,

1583
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:05,800
Speaker 2: that's not who I thought it'd be. I thought it'd

1584
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 2: be funny or nicer, or more insightful. I may not

1585
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 2: hear it, but on some level I will feel it right,

1586
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 2: and more people are there putting out there now you

1587
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 2: pick it up. Some people were just more tuned than others. No,

1588
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 2: I just I try out to be an asshole. That's

1589
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 2: what I try to do. I try to model better behavior.

1590
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 2: I try not to have grandiose thoughts. I just tried

1591
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 2: to show up and do my little bit and go home,

1592
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 2: which earlier I was very grandiose. I'm going to do

1593
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 2: this and then I'll just do you a little bit. Yeah,

1594
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 2: and just try not to be hard on myself.

1595
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 1: It's funny. The first time I had an experience with

1596
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: the residuals of a job. Yeah, I had gone after

1597
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: the tsunami hit in two thousand and four, run around Christmas.

1598
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: The tsunami hit Indonesia and the island of Sumatra in particular,

1599
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 1: and we went over there to document like what happened

1600
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: to the children and children were missing, and you know,

1601
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 1: I stood it grays where there was freshly twenty thousand

1602
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: people buried and we had I was the camera guy,

1603
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: and we interview people who had lost eighty percent of

1604
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:02,280
Speaker 1: the village, you know, And I got home to Atlanta,

1605
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 1: but I just remember the residuals. I didn't know that

1606
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: I had brought it home with me. I didn't know

1607
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:08,719
Speaker 1: I could. I didn't understand how that worked. I didn't

1608
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: know that the humans were sponges, right, And I had

1609
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 1: some experiences when I got back that I was like

1610
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 1: a very very You know, men, don't we have like

1611
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: a couple of emotions available to us expressively. We can't cry,

1612
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: so we can either translate the sadness into anger, or

1613
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:26,759
Speaker 1: we can be stoic and be silent.

1614
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1615
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: Well it's but I had all this in me, and

1616
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it was in me. And then

1617
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: I almost got a fight. Yeah, and I had some

1618
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: other stuff happen. I was like, oh shit, I've I

1619
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 1: didn't go to warn and like get shot at and

1620
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: try it and shoot at other people. But I I

1621
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 1: have some PTSD from this experience. Oh wait, sure, Yeah,

1622
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 1: but I didn't know that.

1623
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:47,640
Speaker 2: I didn't know what that was.

1624
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was possible.

1625
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 2: It's so weird. Just you know, yeah, you're pretty sensive.

1626
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 2: You're pretty sensitive right these days? Yeah? You were always

1627
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 2: this way? Yeah man. Yeah, there's like a joke from

1628
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 2: Bill Burr about me. You know, be fine or angry.

1629
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 2: That's it. That's it, and like we follow the other

1630
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 2: emotions we find or angry. I don't know, it's a

1631
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:08,640
Speaker 2: I don't know how people are bored. This is just

1632
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 2: endless yea. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people kind

1633
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 2: of get into it through pain of suffering, which when

1634
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 2: the lottery, you have great sex, have a good drink,

1635
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 2: go to the best rock show, discover the bigger picture

1636
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 2: if you want to call a god, which I will

1637
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 2: that way, but it comes how it comes well.

1638
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: And you I just I love how you show up

1639
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 1: in this space with your vulnerability, genas, because it gives

1640
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 1: the rest of us access to the extraordinary, just through

1641
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,879
Speaker 1: the simple process of storytelling, just through the simple process

1642
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 1: of identifying as a dude. Yeah, you know, as a

1643
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,719
Speaker 1: human being, Like okay, you know, it makes me less

1644
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: fearful about that exploration.

1645
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,639
Speaker 2: All right through your work. Oh man, that's so kind

1646
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,480
Speaker 2: of It's cool. And this is what's tricky about spirituality.

1647
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 2: It's an easy place to get called taglines and hide behind.

1648
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 2: And you're human for a reason. So there is a

1649
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:01,760
Speaker 2: US versus an mentality going on. And I could argue

1650
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 2: a million points why there is. But on the bottom line,

1651
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 2: so some of the spiritual people I know, and that's

1652
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 2: why I'm just not really in that community, are just like, well,

1653
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 2: you shouldn't say anything about anything. You should just go

1654
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 2: home and eat couscous and meditate. I'm serious, I like,

1655
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: work on your vibration. It's a wild thing. And yeah,

1656
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 2: all this stuff is so messy. I'm not trying to

1657
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 2: slide the spiritual community. I know some great, great people.

1658
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: I think that. Yeah, I mean the spiritual leaders, Like

1659
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 1: it's inseparable, Like at some point your awareness of the

1660
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: interconnecting structure of reality is going to apply either through

1661
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 1: Martin Muther King or whatever.

1662
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 2: You're going to go.

1663
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 1: Okay injustice anywhere. Anytime you sense it anywhere, then that

1664
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:40,679
Speaker 1: means that there's still a battle.

1665
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 2: This is how it was just funny to me. So

1666
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,639
Speaker 2: this is me, this is you, this is MLK. That's

1667
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 2: really cool, and this is Troup right. Uh so this

1668
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 2: is waking up.

1669
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: By the way, Jonas is blowing his hand to reveal

1670
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 1: that all of the fingers are connected at the palm.

1671
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:56,560
Speaker 2: That's what they say. That's why I believe I just

1672
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 2: quickly kind of see it's all the fingers I am.

1673
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 2: You see a glimpse, so you can't say fuck that guy, Famplin.

1674
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 2: It's like, well you can say I'm upset with this guy.

1675
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 2: But trying to recognize our connection with this thing I

1676
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 2: think is helpful and I just don't want it to

1677
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 2: be the more trauma that we kind of recognize. Hey,

1678
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,759
Speaker 2: I appreciate you having me on. I just I appreciate

1679
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 2: the work you're doing. I think that people are really

1680
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:23,679
Speaker 2: going to be hopeful something substantial and real.

1681
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,560
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. I'm literally just kiding this. I'm like,

1682
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: what the fuck's going on?

1683
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 2: This is kind of built for you though, Like right,

1684
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 2: like Quentin talks about love him or hate him, I

1685
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 2: happen to think he's great. Quentin says, I make movies

1686
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 2: because I haven't seen it. I want to watch it. Yeah,

1687
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that you're doing these conversations because

1688
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 2: it's not gonna be an allious to one. But I

1689
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: almost feel like you'd be fine if it's an allious one.

1690
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 2: I want to make this because I haven't heard it.

1691
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 2: Is that fairly?

1692
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's accurate, that's beautiful. That's why I started

1693
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: doing this.

1694
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 2: That's so wonderful, you know. Okay, that's good. That's good.

1695
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: It'll be more than one one.

1696
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: And I never thought i'd be with audio. I never did.

1697
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a filmmaker, tru and true. I'm a

1698
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 1: visual guy.

1699
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1700
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how I thought I could tell a

1701
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 1: story without a camera.

1702
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 2: Ever, You're really good at this just all came on

1703
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 2: very conversational, you know, it's I mean, I've done hundreds

1704
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 2: of podcasts, man, some of it just like you know,

1705
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 2: thirty seven more question for uh yes or no?

1706
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 1: You know so.

1707
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 4: Oh.

1708
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming

1709
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: in here and talking to this, because I feel like

1710
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 1: there's a lot that me and our listeners could could

1711
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 1: tie some knots together by going, okay, there's here's some

1712
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 1: more examples over here that point us towards an openness

1713
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:34,480
Speaker 1: to more consciousness.

1714
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 2: All right, is your intend to try to I feel

1715
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 2: like you're doing this, which I think is really cool

1716
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 2: for you. But are you doing it to try to

1717
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 2: get people to open them not be so skeptical or

1718
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 2: is that more of just like, let's explore this terrain

1719
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 2: as to who we're lucky? Yeah?

1720
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 1: Right on, I'm just looking around, man. I mean, we've

1721
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 1: cut a few stories because they were bullshit. Really yeah,

1722
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: hang on, the person was making stuff up or it

1723
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 1: was just they were just self indulgent as hell. They

1724
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 1: were really just getting up on there was just like

1725
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: the love telling their story and it was a very,

1726
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,640
Speaker 1: very much, you know, an energy suck for them. And

1727
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:07,600
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not airing the shit and.

1728
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 2: You can feel it. Do you know it right away

1729
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 2: or do you know what halfway there?

1730
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 1: No, we got into the edit room and but a

1731
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 1: lot of them are they either feel inauthentic, or they

1732
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: feel self serving, or they feel they're just I just

1733
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: I just spell bullshit. Yeah, I don't know how to

1734
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:22,560
Speaker 1: put it.

1735
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 2: No, I've met some of these guys that, like I

1736
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 2: interviewed like one hundred people for wake Up. I think

1737
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 2: maybe twelve people were in the cut. Are you optimistic

1738
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:32,679
Speaker 2: at all? You think things are going to be going

1739
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 2: in the right direction?

1740
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am optimistic because of what I feel happening

1741
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: inside of myself. That means that I'm not the only one.

1742
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: I think that things will get worse before they get better.

1743
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:45,679
Speaker 1: I think that things will get much more violent before

1744
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's a cycle that is

1745
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 1: going to continue to like have this rise and fall

1746
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: of fear and hatred and violence as a cycle. Is

1747
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: this you know, in a one hundred and seventy five

1748
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: year you know, swirling cycle or what. But I am

1749
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: really curious about why so many people are here. Yeah,

1750
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't understand a lot of people were checking out

1751
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: too though, and why so many? I mean, but like

1752
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 1: turn of the century, last century, there was one billion

1753
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: people on the planet. Now there's eight But there's never

1754
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 1: been this many people on the planet. And meanwhile, there

1755
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,719
Speaker 1: the thing that worries me most isn't so much about people.

1756
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 1: It's about this mass extinction that we're going through. That's

1757
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: that's something that nobody talks about. That's not visible. And

1758
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: there's war, and there's so much stuff that relates to

1759
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: being human being that catches our attention and makes us

1760
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 1: more you know, really grabs the spectacle of that really

1761
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 1: grabs at us. But this mass extinction that's happening is

1762
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 1: terrifying to me because if you can imagine and I

1763
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: don't mean to be reductive about species, but like the

1764
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: DNA information encoded in the millions and millions of years

1765
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 1: of evolution in these different species. Every time we lose

1766
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 1: a species, and we're losing massive amounts, like I don't know,

1767
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 1: thousands eight of entire species are going extinct every year

1768
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 1: and it's ramping up. And when you lose that much information,

1769
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 1: not that we just need the information to like use

1770
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 1: it for science or for you know, pharmaceuticals or whatever,

1771
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 1: but just just that information about what it means to

1772
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:18,679
Speaker 1: be a being, to be a living creature on this planet,

1773
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 1: to information about about the experience on planet Earth. You know,

1774
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:27,439
Speaker 1: you could burn every library, every digital copy of everything

1775
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 1: that a humankind has ever created, and it would be

1776
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 1: just a speck of sand compared to the amount of

1777
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 1: information that's being destroyed right now. Does that make sense?

1778
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 2: Well, I would just say love and light on that

1779
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 2: and just go meditate and it'll be fine. Sorry now

1780
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,599
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a harrowing times. But I do think

1781
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 2: about I do think this. I think that you choose

1782
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 2: to come down here. So I think we have a

1783
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 2: billion people on the planet that made a choice to

1784
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 2: come here. Whether or remember that choice or not, I

1785
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 2: don't know, but I think I mean every generation thinks it.

1786
01:24:58,320 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 2: But I think we're going to see some real shit

1787
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 2: coming up that.

1788
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 1: I think you and I came through the last half

1789
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 1: century pretty unscathed in terms.

1790
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 2: Of that stuff. No, I think things are going to be.

1791
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 2: How are your goods ten and eight? Okay, five and

1792
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 2: one and a half? I think that, Yeah, And.

1793
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 1: That's the thing that we can talk about, you know

1794
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 1: as well at some point. But I since they were born,

1795
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: I've been like, how do I prepare them? How could

1796
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 1: I possibly prepare them? But spiritually? If and and maybe

1797
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 1: just like some fucking martial arts, you know, I don't know,

1798
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: like music, you know, like they should you know, how

1799
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: do I help them to find joy? How to help

1800
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:43,600
Speaker 1: them to I have I'll share with you have a

1801
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 1: list of dad advice that I started. I haven't shared

1802
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: with them yet. Oh in case I get adooked by aliens.

1803
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:52,639
Speaker 1: I've got a list of stuff to share with them about,

1804
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, lessons that I've sort of learned about reality

1805
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:56,639
Speaker 1: and about life and about how to live.

1806
01:25:57,160 --> 01:25:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's wonderful I share with You're interested? Please?

1807
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:00,439
Speaker 2: I am interested.

1808
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: No.

1809
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 2: I keep thinking, at some point, my kids are going

1810
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 2: to see my work. I was like, well, hopefully they'll

1811
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 2: have an open mind to it, and I think the

1812
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 2: dad's just kind of a weirdo which two things will

1813
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 2: be true at once? But now I think that and

1814
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 2: I do believe this. When you start gaming up and

1815
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 2: you're definitely been gaming up by what you've told me,

1816
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 2: I believe you know, it's all water, it raises all

1817
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 2: the ships. I really believe that.

1818
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I do think that the vibration of

1819
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 1: humankind is lifting. But I think it's like it's going

1820
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,240
Speaker 1: to cause a lot of it's a trouble period, so

1821
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 1: it's going to before he can break through something like that.

1822
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 1: I feel like it's happening on a global.

1823
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 2: Scale, yeah, because the old stuff doesn't want to let go, right.

1824
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:43,639
Speaker 2: And I guess I was Stergial Simpson. He's a country singer. Yeah, Okay,

1825
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 2: I don't really know the dude, but I saw him

1826
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 2: give a speech at a concert and I could just

1827
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:49,640
Speaker 2: tell he was speaking from a place of truth and

1828
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,880
Speaker 2: I know that he's a secret on some level. And

1829
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 2: he was I was like, Hey, things are horrible, blah blah.

1830
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:56,760
Speaker 2: He sah blah blah. But I could hear it in

1831
01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:59,160
Speaker 2: his voice. Things are going to get better. I've seen it,

1832
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 2: and we have to get through this darkness, and this

1833
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 2: darkness is cleaning for neurns to stick around and just

1834
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:05,800
Speaker 2: hearing this guy kind of speaking, I'm sure everyone of

1835
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:07,720
Speaker 2: the concert can only see it, but they could feel it.

1836
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,559
Speaker 2: That changed the vibration, the whole experience, the whole night,

1837
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 2: the whole next day. Yeah, and I think these cats

1838
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 2: are popping up left and right, So I'm optimistic, but

1839
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 2: I'm not foolish.

1840
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 1: So hey, man, put my seatbelt on as well. If

1841
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:22,640
Speaker 1: if nothing else, they'll be there. There will be some

1842
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:26,120
Speaker 1: sort of social consciousness revolution that has already started, and

1843
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 1: there will be just like in the last few there

1844
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: will be some killer music that's gonna come out of.

1845
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,600
Speaker 2: I'm good for that. I'm good for that now. No,

1846
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 2: I mean, if anything, art, art makes the world sing,

1847
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 2: So that sounds great. Hey, thanks for me out.

1848
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, Jonas.

1849
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:40,640
Speaker 2: Thank you. I hope, like I said, I hope you

1850
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:42,559
Speaker 2: got thirty minutes of something usable. Thank you so much

1851
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 2: for out of percent. Next time, I'm alive again.

1852
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: When Zoe Cooper jumped out of a plane on her birthday,

1853
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 1: her parachute did not deploy.

1854
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 3: It's amazing what your brain will do.

1855
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:07,960
Speaker 4: To protect you in moments of real danger, the intensity

1856
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 4: with which your brain can zero in on details to survive.

1857
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:14,640
Speaker 4: It's just survival.

1858
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 3: We've got these little survival machines in our heads, and

1859
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,719
Speaker 3: it's incredible how easily it can sift out the things

1860
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 3: that are not necessary for you in those moments and

1861
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:28,480
Speaker 3: distill your experience down into what is necessary.

1862
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,680
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die,

1863
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:44,719
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional

1864
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:48,839
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

1865
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

1866
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. K Ali

1867
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 1: and Noames Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gearhart's Love,

1868
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 1: Brent Die and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben love It

1869
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:09,080
Speaker 1: and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host, Dan Bush. Alive Again

1870
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If

1871
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 1: you have a transformative near death experience to share, we'd

1872
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 1: love to hear your story. Please email us at Alive

1873
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 1: Again Project at gmail dot com. That's a l I

1874
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: v e A g a I N p R o

1875
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:29,800
Speaker 1: j e c T at gmail dot com.