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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for a classic episode.

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Speaker 1: This was Let's see, was this from last year? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess it was. This was one of our Dangerous

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Speaker 1: Foods episodes where we talked about Oh oh, I think

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Speaker 1: this is the one with killer beer in it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this one had concerned adverse additives in foods as part

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Speaker 1: of our long running Dangerous Food series. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if we're gonna if we're gonna have any anything to

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Speaker 1: discuss this year, if there'll be another Dangerous Foods episode,

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Speaker 1: or if this was essentially the finale. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We'll see what we turn up. All right, let's jump in.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios Hows to work. Hey are you welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb

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Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick in his feast time. That's right,

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving season here once again and in the United States

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Speaker 1: at any rate. So we're continuing a tradition, a tradition

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Speaker 1: of dangerous foods in which we highlight foods that at

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Speaker 1: least can be dangerous or deadly under the right conditions.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were trying not to alarm anyone, but

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Speaker 1: we find that there's there's a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun to be had in exploring the dangerous side

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Speaker 1: of our culinary creations and our culinary instincts right now.

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Speaker 1: This can range from such a strange exotic chemical adventures

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Speaker 1: in the past as the hallucinogenic seabream of the Mediterranean,

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Speaker 1: or or like toxic honey that was chronicled in the

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Speaker 1: ancient world as leading to victories in battle when when

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Speaker 1: one side ate the honey and the other could take

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Speaker 1: advantage of that. But it also goes into the mundane

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Speaker 1: world where we're just like normal food items that we

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Speaker 1: all take for granted. If not prepared the right way,

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Speaker 1: could go very bad for you. For example, normal dried beans,

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Speaker 1: kidney beans, and so forth. You need to boil those,

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Speaker 1: you don't just soak them and eat them, and if

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Speaker 1: you do, you can experience some some extreme gastro intestinal problems. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it comes down to, Okay, here's the

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Speaker 1: thing that human beings can eat, but under what circumstances

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Speaker 1: can humans eat it? What do they have to do

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Speaker 1: to it first? Do they have to remove certain parts

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Speaker 1: of it? Are only certain parts edible? Is it only

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Speaker 1: in and then or those parts only edible after the

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Speaker 1: content has been cooked a certain way? Likewise, is there

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Speaker 1: a certain time during which a particular vegetable item should

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Speaker 1: be harvested? And is it dangerous to harvest it or

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Speaker 1: and or consume it at another time? Or do you

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Speaker 1: leave it sitting around too long? As we talked about

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Speaker 1: cases with potato poisonings in the past, where potatoes were

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Speaker 1: just left in the sack for got a little too

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Speaker 1: wisened and then they made some schoolboys sick in England,

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Speaker 1: they get that unhealthy green color, right, Yeah, But of

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Speaker 1: course humans don't just eat this vegetable or that invertebrate.

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Speaker 1: We we also combine all of these things. We add

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Speaker 1: a small dosage of various spices, for instance, spices which

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Speaker 1: in their natural form are chemical weapons and might prove

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Speaker 1: very uncomfortable or dangerous to consume, you know, especially if

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Speaker 1: you're consuming them, and a quantity beyond that that which

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Speaker 1: is advisable when when cooking, and the culinary palate becomes

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Speaker 1: quite vast. This way and out of this complexity many

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Speaker 1: of the most magical of culinary possibilities emerge. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was just your note here made me think about the

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Speaker 1: fact that, of course I love spicy food. I think

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Speaker 1: you like spicy food too, right, Yeah? Uh that that

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Speaker 1: so many of these compounds that we so desire in

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Speaker 1: our foods to liven them up are of course defenses there,

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Speaker 1: as you say, you know, their chemical weapons. That what

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Speaker 1: makes the garlics so hot and wonderful. It's got these

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Speaker 1: compounds that come together when it's sell walls or ruptured

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Speaker 1: and produce this pungent odor and flavor that we love.

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Speaker 1: But this mention of spice was also making me wonder

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Speaker 1: a question I don't think we've ever addressed on the

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Speaker 1: show before. Maybe you got into it many years ago,

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Speaker 1: which is can you be killed by hot peppers? You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure we may have covered a little bit

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Speaker 1: of that in the past. I know we did an

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Speaker 1: episode on nutmeg once. It was really interesting that got

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Speaker 1: into a little bit of you know, the question of

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Speaker 1: what is a lethal dose of nutmeg? What happens when

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Speaker 1: you consume too much nutmeg? Um and and one of

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Speaker 1: the things that was really emerged in that research was that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: most spices, most household spices, if you consume too much

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Speaker 1: of it, you will hurt yourself. Right, Um, that's just

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Speaker 1: that's just kind of a fact no matter what you're

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Speaker 1: grabbing out of the spice cabinet. But with a lot

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Speaker 1: of these things, you would have to consume an amount

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Speaker 1: of it that is not a reasonable amount that would

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Speaker 1: ever be used in cooking, right. It would be the

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Speaker 1: food would become inedible, Like you would have to really

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Speaker 1: force yourself to choke it down. It would have to

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Speaker 1: be a very deliberate act. Yeah, And I think this

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Speaker 1: actually turns out to be the case with this question

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Speaker 1: about hot peppers, as a lover of spicy food and

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Speaker 1: as somebody who has taken a bite out of a

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Speaker 1: raw Carolina Reaper pepper for an on camera experiment, which

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Speaker 1: I mean that was a horrible experience. Is that what

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Speaker 1: you're calling a YouTube challenge? Is that it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: YouTube challenge. It was just it was just Rachel videoing

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Speaker 1: me with her phone. Her dad showed up at the

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Speaker 1: house with one of these. It was one of the

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Speaker 1: spiciest peppers in the world. One of you did something here,

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Speaker 1: No no, no, no no, it was. It was in Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: It was like, you know, so one of these uh

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Speaker 1: like ten billion Scoville units peppers. He showed up and

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Speaker 1: he was like, he knows I like spicy food. He's like,

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Speaker 1: you want to try it? So I took a bite

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Speaker 1: of it on camera, and yeah, that was like, I

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Speaker 1: love spicy food. But that became a problem. It was

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Speaker 1: just more like I had a disease for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the day. Uh. And I tried to fix it,

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Speaker 1: as you know, one thing you can do if you've

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Speaker 1: eaten too much spicy food is you can try to

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Speaker 1: neutralize it with some milk in your mouth. But then

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Speaker 1: I ended up drinking some spoiled milk, so that made

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Speaker 1: it even worse. It sounds like a comedy bit. The

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Speaker 1: comedy was all in my body. But yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: was wondering, well, okay, so that felt pretty bad, even

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Speaker 1: though I love really spicy food. Is it possible to

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Speaker 1: eat food so spicy it kills you? Technically yes, but

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Speaker 1: under practical circumstances not really. Uh. The active compound in

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Speaker 1: chili peppers that makes them spicy is called cap sasan.

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Speaker 1: Eating large amounts of capsasan can cause. Of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the symptoms were familiar with gastro intestinal distress, even vomiting, sweating, flushing, irritation,

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Speaker 1: and the mucous membranes and all that which those symptoms

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Speaker 1: themselves could potentially harm someone maybe if they're saying a

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Speaker 1: very sensitive cardio pulmonary state. But as for just like

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Speaker 1: somebody in normal health being poisoned by too much peppers. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I did find some cases where people had aspirated peppers,

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Speaker 1: and and that was dangerous. But normally you're not like

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Speaker 1: breathing in peppers, uh, when you're eating them, you're just

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Speaker 1: swallowing them. So I found one article by someone named

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Speaker 1: Catherine Gammon, who consulted no less an authority than Paul Bosland,

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Speaker 1: a professor of horticulture at New Mexico State University and

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Speaker 1: director of the Chili Pepper Institute. They've got this whole

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Speaker 1: chili pepper lab there where they like breed new strains

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Speaker 1: of chili's um and bosl sites of study from nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty on the acute toxicity of cap sasan. So how

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Speaker 1: much does it take to just kill you? By his estimation,

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Speaker 1: the research revealed that to kill a one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty pound person with cap sasan you need to serve

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Speaker 1: them about three pounds of the powder form of one

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Speaker 1: of the spiciest peppers known to human kinds, such as

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Speaker 1: the boot jill Lochia or the ghost pepper. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: this would need to be all in one sitting. So

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Speaker 1: you get them to eat three pounds of the powdered

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Speaker 1: form all at once. Uh. And he notes that your

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Speaker 1: body just probably would not allow this. Some things would

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Speaker 1: happen to stop you on the on the course of

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Speaker 1: the suicide mission. Yeah. That Yeah, you would have to

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Speaker 1: be an act of madness to really eat that much

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Speaker 1: much of the pepper. Yeah. So, unless you're already in

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Speaker 1: very delicate health or you're doing something very unusual and extreme,

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Speaker 1: eating spicy food, even really really spicy food is perfectly safe.

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Speaker 1: But hey, that's all. That's all the organic world. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's actually not, because we're breeding

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Speaker 1: these peppers hotter and hotter. That is sort of agricultural technology.

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Speaker 1: But still, you know this is coming from a plant,

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Speaker 1: right right. Yeah, So we get into this situation where

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Speaker 1: we're taking these plants, we're taking spices, we're taking other

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Speaker 1: things the vast palate of things from our natural world

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Speaker 1: and then using them to create food. And it's one thing.

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Speaker 1: If we're creating that food within the household or within

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Speaker 1: say a close tight knit community, uh such as you know,

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Speaker 1: it would have been more or less the you know,

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Speaker 1: the archaic normal for for humans. But of course we

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Speaker 1: ascend past that, right we we begin developing much larger groups,

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Speaker 1: and we begin specializing the creation of various things, various

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Speaker 1: food products, especially various technologies, and we end up engaging

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Speaker 1: in trade, uh and the stockpiling of foods as well.

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Speaker 1: So given this, you know, there's this increased complexity allows

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Speaker 1: us to work kind of a dark magic here as well.

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Speaker 1: Not only can we enhance the flavor of our ingredients,

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Speaker 1: but we can also hide ending smells, not nearly in

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Speaker 1: a you know, in a household sense, like well, this

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Speaker 1: fish is a little off, but we need to eat

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Speaker 1: it more in the this fish is bad, but I

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Speaker 1: really need to sell it way right. But they are

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Speaker 1: all kinds of tricks like that. I mean, another thing

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Speaker 1: you could do if you've seen one of those crime

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Speaker 1: movies where somebody's like they cut the dope, you know,

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Speaker 1: putting baby powder in the brick of heroin or whatever.

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Speaker 1: People do that with food products too, Yeah, and we'll

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Speaker 1: get into some some wonderful, wonderful examples of that. Uh yeah. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it opens the door for all manner of cuts and

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Speaker 1: shortcuts and cheets, all predicated on the fact that in

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Speaker 1: an industry of food, the maker doesn't have to consume

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Speaker 1: their own food product, right, and perhaps they'll be down

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Speaker 1: the road by the time somebody does. Now, So we

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Speaker 1: are going to be talking about food adulteration and food

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Speaker 1: adjectives today. But I don't want to contribute, as we

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Speaker 1: always do in these episodes. We don't want to contribute

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Speaker 1: to food panic, and I don't want to contribute to

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Speaker 1: additive panic. I think there are some people who have

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Speaker 1: this attitude like I don't allow any chemicals in my

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Speaker 1: food or something, which I think we've discussed that attitude

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Speaker 1: on the show before. It doesn't really make sense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: your food already has chemicals and it is native chemicals. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Just looking at a something with a synthetic sounding name

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean it's going to hurt you, right. And

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Speaker 1: we'll touch a little bit, very very briefly on sort

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Speaker 1: of the current state of additives in the in the

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Speaker 1: future of additives, and and just the level of like

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Speaker 1: legitimate concern and sometimes panic that that comes with discussion

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Speaker 1: of these things. But for the most part in this episode,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about older additives, additives that we

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Speaker 1: can safely say we're a bad idea, that it's not

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Speaker 1: a matter a matter of opinion, uh, you know, regarding

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Speaker 1: whether you should put this particular ingredient and say a

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Speaker 1: candy or not. Um. Yeah, we're and we're largely talking

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Speaker 1: about the deliberate adulteration of food. And this has actually

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Speaker 1: been with us since ancient times. Uh. There are ancient

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Speaker 1: laws and rules that that there that govern how we

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Speaker 1: handle our food, how we prepare food in order to

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Speaker 1: ensure food quality. This almost seems to me like it

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Speaker 1: would be one of the earliest concerns of civilization. You know, like,

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Speaker 1: once you're no longer making your own food or having

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Speaker 1: your own food made by a family member, your food

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Speaker 1: is being made by somebody maybe that you don't even know,

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Speaker 1: you don't even know their name, it's being made in

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Speaker 1: some place you can't see. You would naturally, I think,

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Speaker 1: have people start to worry and wonder, like what's in

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Speaker 1: my food? Yeah, yeah, So I was looking at a

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Speaker 1: source on this from on Marcia a Ecoles, who have

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Speaker 1: food safety the interplay of culture and science, of culture,

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Speaker 1: science and technology, and the author points out a number

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Speaker 1: of cool facts about sort of the ancient history of

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Speaker 1: of food safety. So the Assyrians established weights and measures

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Speaker 1: for grains because and we're getting this one of the

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Speaker 1: guess one key way that you can you can cheat

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Speaker 1: assus hm of weights and prices based on weights is

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Speaker 1: to put something in with your grain to weight it down. UM.

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Speaker 1: As early as two b c. E In, residents of

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Speaker 1: India punished economic adulteration of grains and oils. During the

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Speaker 1: same era, the Chinese combated consumer fraud. The ancient Athenians

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Speaker 1: had purity standards for both beer and wine. The Romans

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Speaker 1: had a system to control fraud and bad produce, and

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Speaker 1: there are various other ancient laws, religious or otherwise that's

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Speaker 1: governed the handling of meat in ways that we're concerned

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Speaker 1: ultimately with with purity, which of course is we've discussed

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Speaker 1: many times in the shows. It's a tricky concept because

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Speaker 1: in purity you're getting ideas of sort of hygiene mixed

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Speaker 1: up with with with less um a matter of fact

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Speaker 1: statements about a food. But you know, as we discussed

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Speaker 1: with pork recently on the show, there's always this argument

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Speaker 1: that the purity is at least partially grounded in health concerns. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and you can maybe make arguments like that about the

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Speaker 1: mixing of different types of foods that are forbidden in

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Speaker 1: some religious customs. Maybe not that there's actually anything wrong

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Speaker 1: with mixing those types of foods, but perhaps there was

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Speaker 1: a perception in the ancient world that it could be dangerous. Now,

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Speaker 1: another source that I was looking at here is is

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Speaker 1: a wonderful right up by Adam Burrows J. D Uh

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Speaker 1: And it's titled Palette of Our Palettes Clever. A Brief

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Speaker 1: History of Food Coloring and its Regulation from Comprehensive Reviews

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Speaker 1: and Food Science and Food Safety, And this is from

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Uh. Burrows points out that the ancient

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Speaker 1: Egyptians wrote of drug colorance, but archaeologists think food coloration

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Speaker 1: itself dates back to roughly c. Saffron, for example, is

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the Iliad, and plenty of the Elder wrote

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Speaker 1: of colored wines and four hundred b C. And I

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Speaker 1: looked into this little more and it seems like he's

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Speaker 1: possibly talking about the use of squid inc uh in

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Speaker 1: the wind. I guess, you know, give dark in it

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Speaker 1: and may give it this thicker appearance. Squid inc is

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Speaker 1: still used as a food additive today. Yeah. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: if you ever have squid ink pasta, that's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're beautiful like charcoal black color in the food. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it really contributes a flavor. I've

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Speaker 1: never looked into that. Yeah, And likewise, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if putting squid ink in your wine is I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's it would be frowned upon at a rolling restaurant today.

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Speaker 1: But saffron, of course, contributes both color and flavor. It's

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Speaker 1: got a distinctive kind of aroma. But yeah, you put

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Speaker 1: a little bit of saffron and say a pot of rice,

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Speaker 1: and it takes on this beautiful golden hue. Yeah. In

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Speaker 1: addition to saffron, a few other spices and elements that

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Speaker 1: have long been used to color food. Paprika um fabulous,

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Speaker 1: tumeric beat extract is a big one, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you get that bright red coloration. Long used food dyes.

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Speaker 1: All of these, but one that was particularly popular in

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Speaker 1: the past Tyrian purple was derived from several species of

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Speaker 1: predatory predatory sea snails. Oh yeah, And if you want

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Speaker 1: to learn more about the way that the Roman Empire

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Speaker 1: and particularly made use of natural occurring substances, check out

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Speaker 1: our previous episode on Roman extinctions. Oh yeah, there we

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Speaker 1: talk about the cultivation of like silphium and things like that. Now,

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Speaker 1: another source that we looked to here was Deborah Bloom's

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Speaker 1: book The Poison Squad, and Bloom points out that as

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Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution washed over the world of foods during

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Speaker 1: particularly during I think the eighteen Seventies's pointing out here,

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Speaker 1: new food processing approaches provided even more new ways and

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Speaker 1: new ingredients to commit just lavish food fraud. And this

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Speaker 1: included artificial flavors, artificial coloring, and chemical preservatives. And in

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Speaker 1: this book she she makes a case for the importance

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Speaker 1: of U. S d. A chemist Harvey Washington widely in

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Speaker 1: his white Hat efforts to use our advancing knowledge of

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Speaker 1: chemical science to stay on top of these many frauds.

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Speaker 1: This all in advance of the Meat Inspection Act and

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Speaker 1: the Pure Food and Drug Act of nineteen o six,

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Speaker 1: which widely helped to bring to fruition. Yeah, he's sort

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Speaker 1: of the central character in this book. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: that I feel like some of the main chemicals and

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Speaker 1: preservatives that he investigated with his famous Poison Squad, which

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Speaker 1: was a group of men who would who would essentially

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Speaker 1: meet to eat meals together that were contaminated deliberately with

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Speaker 1: certain common additives used in food to see how their

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Speaker 1: health fared from repeatedly eating things like borax or boric

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Speaker 1: acid or whatever, that kind of thing that was used

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Speaker 1: to produce stuff. I feel like some of the things

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Speaker 1: that the Poison Squad investigated, the jury still kind of

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Speaker 1: out on exactly how harmful they were. Maybe they weren't

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Speaker 1: as harmful as he thought they were, but clearly at

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Speaker 1: this time some food additives were harming and killing people.

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Speaker 1: I think especially there was some danger from certain dies. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, the Poison Squad, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: it would make a wonderful television series, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the public loves a good police procedural, right, This is

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Speaker 1: kind of like a little bit police procedural, also a

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Speaker 1: little bit you know, the flavoring of say the Nick,

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Speaker 1: except with with a food um focus. So I really

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Speaker 1: hope it's been optioned one thing audiences love is people

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Speaker 1: in the past not knowing things that we know now.

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Speaker 1: It's like the scene and Mad Men where the kid

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Speaker 1: is playing putting the dry cleaning bag over their head,

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Speaker 1: and like the scenes in The Nick where people are

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Speaker 1: just like sitting in front of an X ray machine.

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Speaker 1: Why does that give us such pleasure to see the

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Speaker 1: people of the past punished by their ignorance. I don't

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Speaker 1: know one thing I will I think that the Nick

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Speaker 1: did a great job with it because they were able

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Speaker 1: to They had those moments, for sure, but at the

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Speaker 1: same time, they had plenty of moments where they I

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Speaker 1: think we're able to effectively convey this sense of modernity

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Speaker 1: in in the show that showing you that that even

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Speaker 1: if we can look back in hindsight on these various

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Speaker 1: techniques in the show in the time frame, they're occurring

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Speaker 1: at the just the bleeding edge of our understanding of

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Speaker 1: the human body, and it's like retro science fiction. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so obviously, I guess it's you know, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: delicate balance to maintain in a show. But like I would,

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Speaker 1: I would love to see the same people who did

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Speaker 1: the Nick, like do the Poison Squad at least for

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Speaker 1: one season, maybe many limited series maybe, but still so.

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Speaker 1: The frauds during this time were many. But I think

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Speaker 1: one of the more terrifying examples to discuss, just to

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Speaker 1: kick things off here is u something that just on

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Speaker 1: the face of things will seem like a terrible, if

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Speaker 1: not a nefarious idea, and that is lead colored candy.

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Speaker 1: So in our past episode on the lead um, I

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Speaker 1: believe it was Cupid's leaden arrow. It was a Valentine's

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Speaker 1: Day special. We pointed out that even though lead is

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Speaker 1: quite poisonous h it tastes. Its taste is also sometimes

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Speaker 1: described as sweet, and the ancient Romans used lead salt

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Speaker 1: as a sweetener in their syrup. This was known as sapa,

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Speaker 1: I believe, and plenty of the Elder once again describes

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Speaker 1: the use of lead in vessels with sappa to sweeten

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Speaker 1: the taste. Right, Yeah, You've got to boil down your sapa,

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Speaker 1: which was like it was a syrup made by reducing

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Speaker 1: some kind of wine product I think, um. And so

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Speaker 1: you boil it down to make it sweet, and it

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Speaker 1: takes on the lead from the pot that it's boiled

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Speaker 1: and to become sweeter. He says, don't boil it in

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Speaker 1: the copper pot, that's gonna taste bitter. You've got to

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Speaker 1: boil it in a lead pot so it tastes nice

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Speaker 1: and sweet. So when it comes to candy, obviously, candy

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Speaker 1: is generally sweetened through a much more conventional means, namely

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Speaker 1: sugar or or some sugar substitute. But during the time

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Speaker 1: of Wiley's Wars against Dangerous Foods, children's candy was routinely

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Speaker 1: laced with lead and other heavy metals to color it. Yea,

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Speaker 1: to impart this kind of you know, the often describes

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Speaker 1: a kind of an orange coloration, which is just, you know,

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Speaker 1: terrifying to imagine, because I'm just imagining like one of

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Speaker 1: these red suckers that you get at the supermarket nowadays,

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Speaker 1: and just imagine that being laced with lead and being

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Speaker 1: handed to a child right now. It's the CDC points

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Speaker 1: out lead was, and in some parts of the world

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Speaker 1: still is added to foods not only to impart in

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Speaker 1: inviting orange color, but also indeed to sweeten it or

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Speaker 1: to increase its weight. Again, getting back to the idea

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Speaker 1: that oftentimes food, especially in bulk, is price based on weight.

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Speaker 1: That you cut the dope of candy but it's with lead.

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Speaker 1: So so that's like three different levels of poisonous deception.

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Speaker 1: They're possibly in play in any given piece of lead

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Speaker 1: laced candy. Make it cost more via way, make it

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Speaker 1: look more attractive via color, and artificially enhanced the flavor

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Speaker 1: to some extent as well. Uh and this applies not

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Speaker 1: just to candy, but to other food stuffs with lead,

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Speaker 1: often introduced via a spice blend. Now, of course, there

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Speaker 1: are other ways that lead can get into candy as well.

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Speaker 1: Uh and still can get into candy. There's a there

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Speaker 1: was case I was looking at in which a six

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Speaker 1: year old boy was allegedly poisoned by lead containing uh

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Speaker 1: tamarando candy jam products purchased on a visit to Mexico

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Speaker 1: with his aunt. However, it seems like a case in

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Speaker 1: which the lead contamination was linked to the fact that

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Speaker 1: it was quote candy packaged in ceramic jars from Mexico

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Speaker 1: at the time, and as the California Department of Health

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Speaker 1: points out, it is quote not entirely clear where the

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Speaker 1: lead in many of the products is coming from. But

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Speaker 1: products containing tamarind, chili powder or salt that is mine

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Speaker 1: from certain parts of the world may have a higher

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Speaker 1: likelihood of elevated levels of lead. Lead may also be

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Speaker 1: introduced into the candy through improper drying, storing, or grinding

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Speaker 1: of the ingredients. Now, as we know from our our

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Speaker 1: our old alchemist friend Paracelsus, it is of course the

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Speaker 1: dose that makes the poison, and this applies in multiple ways.

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Speaker 1: It can apply to some things, can be can accumulate

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Speaker 1: in the body and their effects over time with chronic exposure.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it also just has to do with an acute dose.

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Speaker 1: It's possible that you know, lead compounds have been used

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Speaker 1: in many food products over time that if they're in

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Speaker 1: small enough concentration, there's not much of a noticeable effect

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Speaker 1: on the people who eat them. But I bet in

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Speaker 1: many of these cases the concentration of lead in the

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Speaker 1: products is probably not very tightly controlled, especially in the

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Speaker 1: past and the nineteenth century and stuff. So you might

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Speaker 1: get suddenly a gumball or candy that's got a lot

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Speaker 1: more lead than usual, leading to you know, high levels

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Speaker 1: in an acute sense, but also eating this candy over

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Speaker 1: time could lead to effects that people don't even necessarily

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Speaker 1: associate with the candy, right. Yeah, And then another factor

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Speaker 1: that was brought up in the case study of the

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Speaker 1: child is that obviously, like children are going to be

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Speaker 1: more susceptible, uh, individuals with smaller body weight, etcetera, which,

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Speaker 1: of course is all the more troubling because we are

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Speaker 1: talking about candy, which is inherently for children. Alright, time

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Speaker 1: to take a break, but we will be right back

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Speaker 1: with more. Alright, we're back. Should we talk about some

429
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: more weird color additives? Alright? So these are some more

430
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: examples that come from Adam Borrows j d's palette of

431
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: our palettes. Uh, some of these are a number of

432
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: these are not nefarious, but I'm just going to touch

433
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: on them anyway because it gives I think a broader

434
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: understanding of how and why we color our food and

435
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: what we used to do it. Um coquineal insects have

436
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: long been used to make the dye carmine, traditionally used

437
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: in fabrics. It also pops up in cosmetics and food coloring. Again,

438
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: not deadly unless you're one of the insects that gets

439
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: ground up to in part of a reddish coloration, but

440
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: it's still interesting. Saffron we already touched on, also not deadly, though,

441
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: of course, with any spice. You'll run into adverse reactions

442
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: if you consume too much of it. A little saffron

443
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: tends to go along long way. It's derived from the

444
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: saffron crocus flour, and it's long been used in cooking,

445
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: both for its flavor and for its strong yellow coloration.

446
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: Now we mentioned earlier like cutting the dope, adding something

447
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: that's not the dope to the dope that you know,

448
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: bulkes it up and makes it more attractive initially. And

449
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: this leads us to a famous quote from a giant,

450
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: I'll grind your bones to make my bread. Oh yeah,

451
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,239
Speaker 1: that's from Jack and the Beans saw. Yeah. Yeah. So

452
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: he climbs up there and and the giant, I don't

453
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: get it. Why is he grin ending his bones? Yeah.

454
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: I always troubled me as a kid because I'm like,

455
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: I don't know not much about bread making. I'm not

456
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: a baker, but I know you don't make bread out

457
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: of bones that are ground up. It makes a little

458
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: more sense, though, when you understand that a typical medieval

459
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: baker's trick was to brighten up bread by using ground bone,

460
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: lime or chalk. Whoa. In fact, Keen Edward the first

461
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: outlied this practice and uh, and here's a here's a

462
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,479
Speaker 1: reading of the law. If any default shall be found

463
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: in the bread of a baker in the city the

464
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: first time, let him be drawn upon a hurdle from

465
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: the guild hall to his own house, through the great street,

466
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: where there be most people assembled, and through the streets

467
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: which are most dirty, with the faulty loaf hanging from

468
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: his neck. If a second time he shall be found

469
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: committing the same offense, let him be drawn from the

470
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: guild hall, through the great Street of cheap Ee to

471
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: the pillory, And let him be put upon the pillory,

472
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: and remain there least one hour in the day. And

473
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: the third time that such default shall be found, be

474
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: shall be drawn, and the oven shall be pulled down,

475
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: and the baker made to forswear the trade in the

476
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: city forever. Whoa the shame walk with bread around your neck.

477
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: That's what you get if you put bone or something

478
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: else in the bread. Victorian era Europe saw copper salts

479
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: used to turn pickles and vegetables of a brighter green color. Apparently,

480
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: and as described in eighteen twenty by English chemist Frederick Acum,

481
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 1: a key individual in the crackdown on illicit additives at

482
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: the time. Uh. He said the following this quote comes

483
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: from Burrows Uh right up as well. Quote. Vegetable substances

484
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: preserved in a state called pickles wholesale frequently depends greatly

485
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: upon a fine, lively green color, and sometimes intentionally colored

486
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: by means of copper. A young lady amused herself by

487
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: eating pickles impregnated with copper. She soon complained of a

488
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: pain in her stomach in nine days after eating the pickle.

489
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: Death relieved her of her suffering. Whoa and Acam also

490
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: pointed to the use of these coloring additives in candies

491
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: uh and in which he pointed out vermilion would contain

492
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: mercury red lead, it was another one white lead, verdigris,

493
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: which is a copper salt blue vitriol which contains copper,

494
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: and then sheilds green, which contains copper and arsenic shields.

495
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: Green is a massive historical case of I think primarily

496
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: not used in food, right, primarily used in like I

497
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: don't know, coloring walls and stuff like that, but I

498
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: think you see that with a few of these different things,

499
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: like there'll be a die and it's fine if you're

500
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: dyeing fabrics, with it, but then to turn around and

501
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: use it in food is either you know, it is

502
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: at least ill advised, if not in like a nefarious act. Oh,

503
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: I'm not saying siels green is fine. I think sheilds

504
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: green is famous for poisoning people in history, like even

505
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: through fabric it was one of the real bad ones.

506
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: In addition, iron compounds were sometimes used to redden up foods,

507
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: and then the dye Prussian blue along with yellow gypsum,

508
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: we're often added to Chinese green teas to make them

509
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: more green and inviting to foreign markets. Uh and put

510
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: in Prussian blue contained arsenic. This reminds me of the

511
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: uh the situation with absinthe um when you when you

512
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: see like a selection of absence at a you know

513
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: absinthe bar. Generally speaking, if I remember correctly, you're gonna

514
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: want to go for the ones that do not look

515
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: as much like storybook absinthe like. The more it looks

516
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: like mouthwash like it's a sign that some sort of

517
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: coloration has been added, probably not arsenic. I'm not saying

518
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: it's arsenic, but but something has been added to enhance

519
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: that coloration and make it more attractive to at least

520
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: the casual audience, I see it make it uh to

521
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: use a tokenism, look fairer and taste fouler yes. And

522
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: then there's the coloring of butter and butter like products.

523
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: Burrows points out that there was a thirteen French edict

524
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: against coloring butter, and late a fifteen seventy four law

525
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: preventing the use of colors and pastries to simulate the

526
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: presence of eggs. And then there were the then there're

527
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: the margarine Wars, which we've touched on on the show

528
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: in the past, in which butter manufacturers sought to protect

529
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: their turf by seeking laws against yellow dyes and margarine,

530
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: and and even though adding the requirement of pink dye

531
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: to make it clear that margarine was not butter, and

532
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: in fact the U. S. Supreme Court had to intervene

533
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: and overturned state laws in thirty two pro butter states

534
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: according to the Butter Wars by publishing nat Geo. And

535
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: this was by Rebecca Rupp. Now, again, while it is

536
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: clear that some compounds used as dies in history have

537
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: turned out to be dangerous in one form or another,

538
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: this is certainly not to suggest that all or even

539
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: most of these compounds have any kind of negative health effects,

540
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: but concerns about such have definitely continued into the modern

541
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: area era, whether founded or not. Yeah, And if you

542
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: want to learn more about this sort of the modern

543
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: state and recent history of of of die considerations, die outraged, die, pendics, etcetera,

544
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: I'd refer you to Burrows for more on this because

545
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,479
Speaker 1: he gets into a lot of the concerns over modern

546
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: dies and sometimes the urban legends about their dangers, such

547
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: as the notion that Mountain Dew's yellow in our five

548
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: reduces sperm count, which which is not the case, but

549
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: that was like that was an urban legend that was

550
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: making the rounds at one point. However, I will leave

551
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: leave you all with this quote from Burrows on the

552
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: history and future of color additives. I think he sums

553
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: us up nicely. Quote. It is hard to believe that

554
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: only a century ago our ancestors were eating food died

555
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: with highly toxic color additives. From that auspicious starting point,

556
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: we have come to a time where a food colorant

557
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: with a one in nineteen billion chance of causing cancer

558
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: is legally considered too dangerous. What we used to die

559
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: our foods and how we regulated may continue to change,

560
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: but there is no end in sight to the timeless

561
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: practice of coloring our food. This is interest ing, like

562
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: the idea that I don't know, whenever you're making a

563
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: ruling on this kind of thing, you can't you can't

564
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: ever say that something is you're sure one hundred percent safe?

565
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: So like, what's the threshold you're comfortable with You're like, Okay,

566
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: maybe if we use this die in fruit loops for

567
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: a hundred years, one person will be killed by it.

568
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: Is that like, do we just decide, Okay, if it's

569
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: just one person every hundred years getting killed by the die,

570
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: then it's okay. Yeah. And I wondered to, like to what, like,

571
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: what is our ultimate relationship with the idea of adding

572
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: die to a food product? Is it one of I mean,

573
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: if we're oblivious to it, is just oh, it's this

574
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: is super red. I'm very attracted to it. I must

575
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: have this candy or apple or whatever the product is. Well,

576
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: we with the eyes first, but but then if if

577
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: there also seems to be this this this this broad

578
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: category of just distrust associated with food coloration as well, Uh,

579
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: this this idea that and still you know pretty early

580
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: on via some of these frauds that were perpetrated the

581
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: idea that if there's some sort of artificial color there,

582
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: there's something in the food that should not be there. Uh,

583
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: they're like the understanding that this food is super red

584
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: in an unnatural way. Um, why is that the case?

585
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: Something is trying to fool me with this food. It's

586
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: the post Watergate era of relationship with foods. I mean,

587
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's are just general uh distrustful attitude in

588
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: the modern world. I think you know, there there are

589
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: reasons for us to feel that way, even if we're

590
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: not necessarily correct about perceived dangers and industrial additives to

591
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: food products. And another thing I wanted to clarify. I

592
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: know that when you say that, you know, when you're

593
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: talking about a one in nineteen billion chance of a

594
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: die killing somebody, I understand that's talking about like confidence intervals.

595
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: That doesn't literally mean that like one person will die

596
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 1: for every you know, it is just a way of

597
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: expressing how confident you are generally that something is safe.

598
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: And again I recommend everyone to check out that Borrows

599
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: article if you want more, you know, in depth consideration

600
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: of dies. But I think that's that's probably enough for

601
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: for food additives for dies. At this point, we're gonna

602
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: take a quick break and when we come back, we're

603
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: going to open up some beer. Alright, we're back now.

604
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: I want to start with we we've done these in

605
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: some of the dangerous food episodes in the past, to

606
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: to do a little sort of epidemiological detective story where

607
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: there's a sudden outbreak of symptoms and then people are

608
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what caused it. Uh So, we're

609
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: gonna go back to the nineteen sixties to the mid

610
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: to late nineteen sixties, and in this period, doctors in

611
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: hospitals and clinics across a number of metro areas in Europe,

612
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: in the United States, and Canada begin to notice a

613
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: strange pattern of cases, patients showing up with a sudden

614
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: onset of an unusual form of cardiomya pathy, which is

615
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: a disease of the heart muscle in which parts of

616
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: the heart can become enlarged or stiff for just generally

617
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: aren't working properly. Uh So, between August nineteen sixty five

618
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: and April nineteen sixty six, a rash of cases appeared

619
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: around the area of Quebec City in Canada, enough to

620
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: signal that there was some kind of pattern going on

621
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: to local clinicians and pathologists who at first thought, well,

622
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: maybe the epidemic is viral in nature, But a study

623
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: of thirty patients could not isolate a viral cause for

624
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: this strange kind of cardiomyopathy. Uh and this was described

625
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixty seven report I'll sight in a minute. Instead,

626
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: what the patients seem to have in common was that

627
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: they were all heavy beer drinkers. Um. So, alcoholic beverages

628
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: are an interesting case to explore when you're talking about

629
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: you know, dangerous foods, because alcoholic beverages already contain a

630
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: perfectly powerful and dangerous active ingredient, which is alcohol. According

631
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: to itally by the U s c d C. And

632
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: about people in the United States die every year from

633
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: alcohol poisoning. And that's just alcohol poisoning, which is an

634
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: acute overdose of alcohol leading directly to death. If you

635
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: expand that number to alcohol related deaths such as you know,

636
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: deaths from from chronic alcohol abuse, or include stuff like

637
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, traffic collisions caused by people driving under the influence,

638
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: the number is obviously going to be a lot higher. Yeah,

639
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: among other things, it is a great insight into the

640
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: the uneven way in which we uh we we we

641
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: we we govern the consumption and purchase of various dangerous substances.

642
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, but for yeah, so for alcohol poisoning alone

643
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: people every year as of that's an average of six

644
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: people who die every single day, and just in the

645
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: United States, and an overwhelming majority of the people who

646
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: die from alcohol poisoning are adult men. Seventy six percent

647
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: of deaths from our called poisoning occur among men, and

648
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: seventy six are also between people of the ages thirty

649
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 1: five to sixty four. And of course the primary cause

650
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: of death in these cases is suppression of the life

651
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: sustaining functions of the brain and the central nervous system. Alright,

652
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: so the basic scenario is you have a population of

653
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: people who are already drinking something that is arguably poison

654
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: but something else may be involved. Right, These cases of

655
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: cardio myopathy did not seem to stem from the acute

656
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: or chronic effects of alcohol itself. So look at a study,

657
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: the sort of breakthrough study on on the first big

658
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: look at this It was by Eve's Marine and Philippe

659
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: Daniel called Quebec Beer drinkers cardio myopathy ideological considerations that means,

660
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: considerations for the origin of this outbreak. It was published

661
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: in the Canadian Medical Association Journal in nineteen sixty seven,

662
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: and the authors here mentioned that there was a similar

663
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: outbreak of sudden cardio myopathy in Omaha. No brass Ka

664
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: I was also looking at the nineteen seventy two paper

665
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: by a doctor named Carl S. Alexander describing an outbreak

666
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: of cardio myopathy and twenty eight patients admitted to the

667
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: VA Hospital in Minneapolis, Minnesota, between nineteen sixty four and

668
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, So again mid mid to late sixties,

669
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: especially in these Midwestern and northern cities, sudden outbreak of

670
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: of strange type of heart disease UH. And again what

671
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: these cases seem to have in common was heavy consumption

672
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: of beer and sudden unusual cardio myopathy. So, according to Alexander,

673
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: a total of forty two patients with acute cardiac distress

674
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: were admitted to the hospital in Minneapolis, but the study

675
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: focused on just twenty eight of them because those twenty

676
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: eight admitted to drinking up to thirty bottles of not

677
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: just beer, but one particular brand of beer Brand X

678
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: in Alexander's paper and denied drinking any other alcoholic beverages.

679
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: The other fourteen patients were excluded from the initial study

680
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: because they drank other kinds of alcohol as well as

681
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: Brand X beer. Actually, now brand X is just to

682
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: cover the name of the actual manufacturer, right right, And

683
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: that's just in the literature. I will name one of

684
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: the culprits that we get too log on. But yeah,

685
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: Alexander's paper was published in seventy two in the American

686
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: Journal of Medicine. And again this is looking at a

687
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: broader study of of this phenomenon. Here now, Alexander mentions

688
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: that there are types of cardiomyopathy that you would otherwise

689
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: expect to find among patients with alcoholism, and these cases

690
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: were different in their symptoms and onset. Like Alexander says, quote,

691
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: the syndrome differed from alcoholic cardiomyopathy and berry berry which

692
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: again that's another related disease caused by a deficiency of

693
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: vitamin B one also known as thiamine. And Alexander says

694
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: the way it differed from these other known conditions was

695
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 1: quote in its rather abrupt onset of left ventricular failure,

696
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: cardiogenic shock and acids. So cardiogenic shock is when the

697
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: heart suddenly fails to pump enough blood to provide circulation

698
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: to the rest of the body, often happens as the

699
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: result of a heart attack. Acidosis is an imbalance in

700
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: the pH of the blood in which the blood plasma

701
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: becomes overly acidic. Alexander also mentions two other unique features

702
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: of these apparent epidemics, as identified in Belgium by a

703
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: doctor named Kes Salute uh and these were pericardial effusion.

704
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: And this is when there's an excess of fluids surrounding

705
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: the heart inside the pericardium, which is a kind of

706
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: sack that surrounds the heart muscle. So you've got the

707
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: heart is inside its sack, and then there's a bunch

708
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: of fluid in that sack, and then there is UH.

709
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: There were also elevated hemoglobin levels. Hemoglobin is the protein

710
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: in red blood cells that the body uses to transport

711
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: oxygen molecules from the lungs to the rest of the body. Uh.

712
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: And you might see elevated levels of hemoglobin in any

713
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: kind of condition where the body is struggling to supply

714
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: itself with enough oxygen. So This could range from high altitude,

715
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: say right, because you know you're not getting enough with

716
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: each breath, so you see increased hemoglobin in the blood,

717
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 1: to various lung and heart diseases. Alexander mentions that among

718
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: the patients he reviewed, acute mortality was eighteen percent, but

719
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: the disease was associated with lingering symptoms and disabilities that

720
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: led to a total mortality of forty three percent. So

721
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: ultimately forty three percent of the people he saw with

722
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: this condition died from it, and so it took a

723
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: bit of work to isolate the cause of these outbreaks,

724
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: especially it was in the first one in Quebec City

725
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: in the years nineteen sixty five to nineteen sixty six.

726
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: The investigating physicians established that it probably was not caused

727
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: by a virus, that it seemed to be associated with

728
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: heavy beer drinking, but that it didn't look like normal

729
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: alcoholic cardiomyopathy, and they discovered something else similar to what

730
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: Alexander discovered later in his study about the Minneapolis patients.

731
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: In Quebec City, it wasn't just that the patients were

732
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: heavy beer drinkers. They drank a lot of one specific

733
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: brand of beer, uh Morn, and Daniel speaking of this

734
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: brewery that made this beer quote, it's excellent tasting. Brew

735
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: was and still is very popular in Quebec and accounts

736
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: for approximately eight of the local market. Later reports revealed

737
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: this to be the Tao Brewery. So quick question, does

738
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: this have does this have any uh? Did this inspire

739
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: the movie Strange Brew? Is there anything I haven't seen Strange?

740
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: I've never seen it either. I just okay, well, I'm

741
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: just familiar with it by you know, reputation that it

742
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: concerns some sort of strange Canadian brew of beer and

743
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: it's you know, cinematic powers. I kind of doubt it

744
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: because I think that movie is a comedy and this

745
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: ultimately is not that funny of a story, though it

746
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: does have I don't know, I guess it has some

747
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: funny tragedy plus time comedy. Right. Yes, of course what

748
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: happened to the people who drank it is not funny,

749
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: But like when you when we find out what was

750
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 1: causing this, it is actually kind of strange. So Morin

751
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: and Daniel mentioned that they were inspired to look more

752
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: closely at the constituents of the beer made by this

753
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: brewery because of a specific historical analogy and that's the

754
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: Great English beer poisoning of nineteen hundred. Uh. This was

755
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: an incident in which thousands of people across Middle and

756
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: Northwest England, especially in the city of Manchester, were poisoned

757
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: by beer. Of the thousands who were poisoned, at least

758
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: around seventy or so died. And I think it was

759
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: originally believed to be nothing more than a bunch of

760
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, known pathologies affecting alcoholics. A royal commission in

761
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: Great Britain investigated the incident and discovered that the outbreak

762
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: of symptoms was due to contamination of these batches of

763
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: beer with the chemical element arsenic and known poison. Now,

764
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: given the isolation of this beer source, UH, and a

765
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 1: bit of historical analogy, finally a theory started to come together.

766
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: And it starts with beer foam and dish detergent. So

767
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: you ever seen a beer commercial on TV the kind

768
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: I know you've seen at least So sometimes you're you know,

769
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: you're hanging out by the pool party and with the

770
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: bottles or the cans. Right, sometimes you're a giant amid

771
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: the mountains and throwing the ball back and forth. Which

772
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: was the beer company that had the had the big

773
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: like Transformers monster. Oh, I don't know. See they all

774
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: they all couldn't run together for me. And I was never,

775
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, a customer, but you know, sometimes you're partying

776
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: with a dog. Just About anything can happen in a

777
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: beer commercial, Okay, So I'm trying to get you to

778
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: picture a specific kind, which is the one where, uh,

779
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: somebody is pouring a nice frosty glass of beer straight

780
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: from the tap into a mug or or a pint

781
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: glass and handing it across the bar to the earthy

782
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: Marlboro man who's off work and ready to relax with

783
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 1: his friends. You know this kind, right with the bar,

784
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: with the glass, with especially the frothy head at the

785
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: top of the glass, right, and the Marlboro man is

786
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: going to drink from it, and he's gonna have the

787
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: foam stuck on his mustache. Yeah, got foam. Yeah. And

788
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: so in this genre of beer commercial, clearly one of

789
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: the most important is that equalities of that glass of

790
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: beer is the foamy top. Some people call it the head,

791
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: some people call it the collar. This foam is caused

792
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: by the quick rising of bubbles from previously dissolved gas.

793
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: Usually it's gonna be carbon dioxide, but I think some

794
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: brands actually dissolved nitrogen in there to help with the

795
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: foam guinness or some brands might do that. But these

796
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 1: bubbles form at nucleation points in the glass of beer

797
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: as it's poured, and they shoot up to the top

798
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: of the glass where they collect in a mesh of

799
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: bubbles and proteins from the malt in the beer and

800
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: bitter hop compounds. I was looking at an article that

801
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: interviewed a professor of biochemistry at Cornell named Carl Siebert

802
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: on the subject of what constitutes beer foam, and Siebert

803
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: mentioned that one of the important proteins in beer that

804
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: collects in these bubbles and this matrix of bubbles and

805
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: proteins in beer foam is albumen, which I thought I

806
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: would just add is also the same primary family of

807
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: proteins that you find in egg whites. So is there

808
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: something shared in common between your logger head and that

809
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: egg white omelet a little bit or your ramos gin fizz,

810
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: which of course is going to have that nice, creamy,

811
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: frothy consistency because of the egg whites that are part

812
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: of the recipe. Oh that's right, Yeah, But but in

813
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: the beer, like the head of the beer. I know

814
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: that you're not supposed to have too much of it, right,

815
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: Like that's a sign of a bad poor right. Yeah,

816
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: So I think it's widely agreed by beer drinkers that

817
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: a glass of beer without a correctly proportioned layer of

818
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: head is wrong. If you get too much head, if

819
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: it takes up like half the glass, or if you

820
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: have none at all, you have failed to beer. But

821
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: it's I'm assuming you still need a certain amount of

822
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: foam at the top for it just to feel like

823
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: you're drinking beer, right, And and the beer industry has

824
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: studied the chemistry of beer foam extensively to meet the

825
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: perceived customer demand for the right kind of frothy head

826
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: on a glass of beer. But the researchers Marin and

827
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: Daniel note that by the mid nineteen sixties, beer manufacturers

828
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: were encountering a problem that beer wasn't looking right in

829
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: a lot of ball ours. It didn't have that nice

830
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: frothy head that they believed the customers were looking for,

831
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: And this was believed to be the result of the

832
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: use of synthetic dishwashing detergents used to clean beer glasses,

833
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: which after cleaning and insufficient rinsing, would leave a layer

834
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: of film on the inside of the beer glass that

835
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: interfered with the beer's ability to foam up and create

836
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 1: a nice head. Interesting, I never thought about that. So

837
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: around July nine, some Canadian brewers and presumably brewers elsewhere

838
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: found a solution in modern chemistry in an additive chemical

839
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: compound that Marin and Daniel originally identify as cobalt sulfate,

840
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: but which later authors I think more correctly identified as

841
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: cobalt chloride. But the main thing here is that it's

842
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: a cobalt compound. This cobalt compound was added to draft

843
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: beer batches to stabilize the beer head and overcome any

844
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: anti foaming influence of deterred residue left in the beer glass.

845
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 1: So obviously we know where this is heading. But and

846
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 1: so it's probably coloring my judgment, but already it sounds

847
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: like if you're fighting detergent film, uh, through the food

848
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: product itself, through the beer itself, Like that's a bad sign,

849
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: right right uh? And and again this would be something

850
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: that they were only really supposed to be dealing with

851
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: through draft beer, right, And it's going to be poured

852
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: into a glass in a bar or something, it wouldn't

853
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: be the same in a bottle because you know the

854
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: number one, the head doesn't really matter in the bottle

855
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: as much. And then presumably that bottle is going to

856
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: be completely clean and not have any kind of like

857
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: you have control over what you're you're pre cleaning the

858
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: bottles with exactly. Yeah, But it turns out that at

859
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: least in this Quebec City brewery, this stuff was being

860
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: added to both the draft beer and the bottle beer

861
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: batches because they didn't make them separately. They made them

862
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: all in one batch and then split them up later.

863
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: So so they're putting cobalt in the beer. Wonder how

864
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: that's going to turn about. Let's talk about cobalt. Cobalt

865
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: is a amical element atomic number twenty seven. It's one

866
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: of the transition metals of the periodic table. It's essentially

867
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: never found in its pure form in nature. It's always

868
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: bound up with other elements in compounds and compound minerals

869
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: and other stuff. Very cool etymology fact. The English name

870
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: cobalt comes from the German word cobalt, which in its

871
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: general sense means goblin or imp or demon. More specifically,

872
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: it refers to a breed of German household or subterranean goblin. Uh,

873
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: there would be ones in your house, ones sometimes I

874
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: think in ships, and definitely in minds. And these goblins

875
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: could be full of tricks and mischief if you offended them.

876
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: So essentially, yes, So the cobalt or was rarely sought

877
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: out for its own sake at this time, but it

878
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: was usually a byproduct of mining for other metals like

879
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: silver or copper, and it seemed to some miners and

880
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: refiners and metal workers that this other element in the

881
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: ore carried impish or demonic qualities, since it was believed

882
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: to make workers sick with its fumes and degrade the

883
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: quality of silver. Now I think it seems, actually, with

884
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: historical perspective, that what was really making people sick during

885
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: this refining process was the arsenic content of the ore,

886
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: but the goblin name stuck with cobalt. Cobalt remains the

887
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: goblin metal. Cobalt was first chemically isolated in the seventeen

888
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: thirties by the Swedish chemist gae Org Bronte, but the

889
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: use of compounds containing cobalt goes back into the ancient world,

890
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: going back to our dye discussion, it appears that it

891
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: was often for the use of coloring. It was to

892
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: pigment or color statuettes in ancient Egypt, or beads in

893
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 1: ancient Persia, and cobalt was used in ceramics in China.

894
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: But what happens when you start eating or drinking it? Well,

895
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: Cobalt appears to have a very complex range of biological

896
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: effects at the same time, of course, it is not

897
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: a pure poise, and in fact, cobalt compounds in small

898
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: quantities are important for good health in a number of animals.

899
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: Or I said compounds plural, I think there's at least

900
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: one known one I can think of, which is vitamin

901
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: B twelve, also known as cobal aman. It contains cobalt

902
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: and UH and B twelve is of course essential for

903
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: good health. It sustains functions like cell metabolism, red blood

904
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: cell formation or the I think the maturation of red

905
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: blood cells, and in DNA synthesis. And in fact, there

906
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: were already by the nineteen sixties known therapeutic uses of cobalt.

907
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: But again, to revisit Paracelsis, it's the dose that makes

908
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: the poison. While some small amounts of some forms of

909
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: cobalt are necessary in the body. Humans are also extremely

910
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: sensitive to large doses of cobalt. So to come back

911
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: to the Quebec City outbreak in nineteen sixty five, according

912
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: to Morin and Daniel, the myocardial toxicity of cobalt was

913
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: already known to medical science in the nineteen sixties. Studies

914
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: had already shown that metabolized cobalt is deposited in the

915
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: muscle tissue of the heart and it will reduce the

916
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: ability of the heart muscles to contract, which of course

917
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: they need to do to pump blood. So the detectives

918
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: here looked into the timing of when cobalt was added

919
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: to the beer and the appearance of patients with beer

920
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: drinkers cardiomyopathy, and it was clear that the cobalt in

921
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: the beer was primarily to blame. After a pattern was

922
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: discovered in in nineteen sixty six, breweries in the United

923
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: States and Canada and elsewhere were ordered by their governments

924
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: to stop using cobalt additives, and this appears to have

925
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: stopped the the you know, people showing up at hospitals

926
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: and clinics with this unique type of cardio myopathy. In

927
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: the following months. Robert, I've attached a little timeline for

928
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: you here being see quite clearly a pattern where basically

929
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: the cobalt is introduced and then the patients start showing up,

930
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: the cobalt is removed, and the patients stopped showing up.

931
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it is a there's a clear correlation there. Now,

932
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: there are some peculiarities here, and one is that in

933
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: both the case of the nineteen hundred beer poise in

934
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: England and the outbreaks of beer drinkers cardiomyopathy, it seemed

935
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: like at least some patients, maybe a lot of patients,

936
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: displayed symptoms that were more powerful than you would expect

937
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: from the doses of arsenic and cobalt alone, respectively, that

938
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: they received. So it also looks like the negative effects

939
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: of alcoholism, along with poor diet and nutrition, maybe contributing

940
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: to making the arsenic and the cobalt more potent poisons

941
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: than they would have been on their own. Nevertheless, I

942
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 1: think it's totally clear that the cobalt was primarily the cause.

943
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 1: Uh and Moren and Daniel also add a really stern,

944
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: pretty harsh addendum to their paper. Uh. They point out

945
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: that the a chelating agent called E d t A

946
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: quote has been shown to prevent cobalt intoxication in the animal.

947
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 1: Had this metal been known to be present in beer

948
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: at the time of the epidemic, the prompt administration of

949
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: E d t A might have saved some of our patients.

950
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 1: The clinician, accustomed to knowing the exact composition of the

951
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: drugs he uses, will therefore seriously question the necessity for

952
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: the secrecy that surrounds the use of food or drink additives.

953
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: That makes sense again, It comes back to to to

954
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: the the fact that in the modern world we have

955
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: such a robust palette from which to create our various

956
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 1: food products. Uh. Well, if you're going to be treating

957
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: an illness that maybe due to your particular food or

958
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: drink product, you need to have the secret ingredients fully

959
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: listed so that medical personnel can respond appropriately. Yeah. And

960
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 1: I mean it's known here that they're saying, if we'd

961
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 1: known about the cobalt earlier, some people who died might

962
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: have lived. Uh. That's a tragic reality. Um, that's just

963
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: that seems to be this unfortunate side effect of the

964
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: the idea of protecting recipes and industrial secrets and stuff.

965
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: But anyway, after the link between the cobalt additive and

966
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: the cardiac disease was discovered, the use of cobalt, of

967
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: course was suspended, as we said, but there must have

968
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: been plenty of cases around the world of undiagnosed cobalt

969
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: cardio myopathy which doctors just mistook for more common forms

970
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: of heart disease. Eves Moren emphasizes this point speaking to

971
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: the CBC in article about the cobalt poisoning quote, you

972
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: can't imagine the number of patients everywhere who died from

973
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 1: that disease because it wast mortality. But the story doesn't

974
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: in there. I was reading article from the CBC, uh

975
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: that was the one I just cited, and and the

976
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: occasion of this article was that there was another case

977
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 1: of cobalt poisoning that was recognized by a group of

978
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: doctors in Germany that year with the help of an

979
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 1: episode of the TV show House, which I've never seen before,

980
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 1: but apparently the doctor said the fact that cobalt poisoning

981
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: had showed up on an episode of the TV show

982
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: led them to along with the this historical case of

983
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: the beer outbreak in the sixties led them to diagnose

984
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: correctly what was happening to fifty five year old man

985
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: who showed up in a hospital in Marburg, Germany with

986
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: severe heart failure, deafness, blindness, fever, hypothyroidism, and swollen lymph nodes,

987
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: and the doctors eventually pinpointed the cause of his sudden illness,

988
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: which was cobalt poisoning from metal hip implants. A common

989
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 1: use of cobalt today is in is in special like alloy,

990
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 1: is like magnetic metals and alloys. And apparently this patient

991
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: had I think part of some kind of ceramic object

992
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: with part of it with his hip replacement rubbing against

993
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: the metal alloy element of the hip replacement, and it

994
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: was the rubbing was releasing cobalt into his bloodstream. But

995
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: the doctors figured this out. The patient had his hip

996
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: pros thesis removed and replaced with a new model, after

997
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: which the concentrations of cobalt and chromium and his blood

998
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: decreased and he recovered from some of the worst of

999
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 1: his symptoms, but not immediately from all of them. Well

1000
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: that's that's that's very interesting, And as far as house goes,

1001
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: I've never watched either left the lead actor, but this

1002
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: is a great example of why it's it's not a

1003
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: bad thing to get the science at least mostly right

1004
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: in some sort of popular form of entertainment, because people

1005
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: are going to you know, they're going to learn from

1006
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 1: it for better or worse, you know. And here's an

1007
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: example of of of them getting the science right or

1008
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 1: even mostly right, helped investigators go in the right direction

1009
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: on this particular case. Yeah, but I think this is

1010
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: such a bizarre and fascinating story, going from like the

1011
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: aesthetics of what beer looks like in a glass to

1012
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,240
Speaker 1: to these outbreaks of metal poisoning. Yeah, yeah, and and

1013
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: and like and again it's clearly a case where the

1014
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: the individuals who did this, they were they were thinking, well,

1015
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 1: we just we want to make the beer look nicer.

1016
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,479
Speaker 1: What can we add. Here's something that that we can add,

1017
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: and it's gonna it's not gonna hurt anybody like that

1018
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: was clearly far from their minds. And uh, and yet

1019
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: these were the unforeseen consequences. But again that's the complexity

1020
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: of of of food in our modern world of processed

1021
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: food and and and certainly beer is as a as

1022
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: an artificial product, it is processed. I mean, it's stories

1023
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: like this that can make you. Normally you don't stop

1024
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: to to appreciate the bureaucrats, but it's stories like this

1025
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: can that can really make you say, like, hey, wow,

1026
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: it's it's actually amazing that that modern societies have come

1027
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: up with things like food and drug testing organize, you know,

1028
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: like a Food and Drug Administration or something that looks

1029
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: at products that are going out to mass markets in

1030
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: an organized way to say, can we be pretty certain

1031
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: that this is safe before releasing it on the public, right,

1032
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,479
Speaker 1: We didn't always have that. I mean, yeah, it's easy

1033
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: to say, you know, I don't want the government. You know,

1034
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: I'm saying what I can and can't put in my body.

1035
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: But if the thing we're talking about is a say,

1036
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: a lead laced UH sucker for a child, or or

1037
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: or or a cobalt infused beer, you don't necessarily know

1038
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: what you're putting in your body hasn't been tested. I'm

1039
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: all for big Brother jumping in and weeding out you know,

1040
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: poisonous products like that, but that's just me. You may

1041
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: have a different opinion of poison. So anyway, I don't

1042
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: know if this was going to really help anybody out

1043
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 1: this Thanksgiving uh don't don't put cobalt on your turkey,

1044
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: right right, You don't just don't use any like hard

1045
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: heavy metals to to flavor or way down anything. But

1046
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess in general, you know, you're

1047
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: going to use some processed foods during you know, whatever

1048
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: kind of feast you might be having, You're going to

1049
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: use additives or something that has additives added to it.

1050
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: And so it is I think inciple to understand the

1051
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: history of these things, and uh and the Carol careful

1052
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: balance that is in play between you know, finding a

1053
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: nice color, enhancing a flavor, and potentially poisoning somebody. Can

1054
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: we end with just a food coloring tip. Sure, you

1055
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: sort of mentioned earlier when you were listing natural foods

1056
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: that are sometimes used for their their dying properties or pigments.

1057
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: One that I think is a great substitute for saffron.

1058
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't get the flavor there, but it all so

1059
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: creates a wonderful yellow orange hue is just use a

1060
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: little bit of turmeric. You don't have saffron at the house,

1061
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: but you want to make a nice yellow pot of rice,

1062
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of turmeric in there. It goes a

1063
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 1: long way. Oh, yeah, I love I love turmeric. All right, Well,

1064
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and call it here for this

1065
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: year's Dangerous Foods. But I think I think we'll probably

1066
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: be back next year with another Dangerous Foods episode. We

1067
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: did not exhaust the the larder of poisons this time,

1068
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: so I think we'll be able to come back with

1069
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: some new angle next year. In the meantime, if you

1070
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: want to check out more episodes of Stuff to Blow

1071
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: your Mind, going over to stuff to Blow your Mind

1072
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: dot com. That's where we will find them. That's the mothership,

1073
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: and you can also find the show wherever you get

1074
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Wherever it is, just make sure you have

1075
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: subscribed and give us a rating and review. That really

1076
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: helps us out. If you want a little horror fiction,

1077
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: check out the second Oil Aige that's out wherever you

1078
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: get your podcast. You can also check out our other

1079
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: nonfiction show that Being Invention. Invention is a journey through

1080
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: human techno history, one invention at a time. UH. This month,

1081
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: there have been a number of food episodes, a two

1082
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: part look at the microwave. For instance, use a microwave

1083
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: every day? Do you know how it works? Well? You

1084
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: should listen to these episodes and make sure you're on

1085
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: top of that. Uh, let's see what else? Oh yeah.

1086
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: On on the social media, there's the Facebook group the

1087
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind discussion module. That's a good

1088
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: place to to chime in and chat with other listeners.

1089
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure some folks are going to shi m in

1090
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: about Strange Brew too, and to let everyone know exactly

1091
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: what that film is about and what extent it may

1092
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: or may not tie into our topics today. Do you

1093
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: have Rick Moranis in it? Yeah? I was just getting

1094
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: Rick Moranis and uh, the other guy from was this

1095
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: was the Second City, Dave Thomas. Dave Thomas, Dave Thomas, Yes,

1096
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 1: Dave Thomas, Rick Moranis and probably some other names as well,

1097
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: but those are the two leads. Uh. I just want

1098
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: to emphasize again if you haven't checked out Invention yet,

1099
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: check that out. If you haven't checked out the second

1100
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: oil age, you must do it. I think you're gonna

1101
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: love it. It's so much fun. Oh and T shirts

1102
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: The Stuff to Blow Your Mind of merch store is

1103
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: still active and i'd just mind understanding that there is

1104
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: a new shirt in there for Thanksgiving and there is

1105
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: also some manner of like there's like you know, there's

1106
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: always Black Friday feels and Thanksgiving deals, so just be

1107
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: advised this is a good time to get merchandise from

1108
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: that store if you so desire. Totally by it all

1109
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

1110
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

1111
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

1112
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: to suggest topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1113
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1114
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

1115
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more

1116
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1117
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Speaker 1: Blips Past twenty twenty thirty pot Proper