WEBVTT - Engagement Is Key to Solving Climate Change

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. Okay, I think

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people feel powerless when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>addressing the climate crisis. And they do see stories about

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<v Speaker 1>what's happening to the world and they say, well, I

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<v Speaker 1>can try to recycle, I can try to drive less,

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<v Speaker 1>but ultimately, what can I do? That's something that our

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<v Speaker 1>next guest, Paul Hawkin, tries to address in his latest book, Regeneration,

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<v Speaker 1>Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation. Paul Hawkins is

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<v Speaker 1>an environmentalist and author. He's an entrepreneur, he's an activist.

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<v Speaker 1>He's dedicated his life to environmental sustainability and changing the

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<v Speaker 1>relationship between business and the environment. And he joins us

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<v Speaker 1>now on the phone from the San Francisco Bay area. Paul,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really great to have you on the show. Congratulations

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<v Speaker 1>on your most recent book, Regeneration, Ending the Climate Crisis

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<v Speaker 1>in One Generation. How do we get how do we

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<v Speaker 1>do it? How do we how do we get to

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<v Speaker 1>the point where we don't feel powerless? Well, I think

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<v Speaker 1>we feel powerless, and thank you very much for invite

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<v Speaker 1>amount of the program. We feel powerless because it was

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<v Speaker 1>being told to us. And the climate narrative is we

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<v Speaker 1>can call it that has been for quite a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh fun the science point of view, which is future

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<v Speaker 1>existential thread and we don't do this if things are

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<v Speaker 1>going to get worse, and it's great science and they've

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<v Speaker 1>been absolutely spot on in terms of their predictions. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And then what happened is that a tactic there was

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<v Speaker 1>really adopted from tobacco, which was taken up by British

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<v Speaker 1>Petroleum and there was individuated the problem, which is that

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<v Speaker 1>we just drive, you know, oil wells and sell gas.

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<v Speaker 1>You can calculate your carbon footprint, you know, as if

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<v Speaker 1>you can solve the problem, you know, and so yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you can drive, Let's get a bike, recycle, use cold

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<v Speaker 1>water and washing machine, put power strips in your home

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<v Speaker 1>entertainment center. These are some of the solutions that are

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<v Speaker 1>coming out, you know. And what happened is individuals will

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<v Speaker 1>listen to that and understand that that makes sense, that

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<v Speaker 1>did lower impact. But unless you had you know, i

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<v Speaker 1>Q loder in the room temperature, you know that they're

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<v Speaker 1>completely inadequate to the task at hand. Because you're reading

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<v Speaker 1>the headlines, you know, right, it's like it's like sustainability theater, right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like you know, and it makes you feel disempowered

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<v Speaker 1>as an individual, go oh man, this is worse than

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<v Speaker 1>I thought. And so um and then people didn't turn

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<v Speaker 1>the big government. You know, government is big b the factor,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean government and just said, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you should do something, you know, but there's only certain

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<v Speaker 1>things government can do and they should and they're not

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<v Speaker 1>and they haven't been. But that's so I'm for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Government is the slowest institution to move, not the fastest.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh so to look the government to adopt policies

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<v Speaker 1>you know that are complex, you know that actually would

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<v Speaker 1>make a difference is kind of uh you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of a prior wearing in a prayer. And

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<v Speaker 1>so then people feel like, well, if you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>think that the only thing that can happen is between

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<v Speaker 1>the individual, the individuated he she by himself herself, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the government in its enormity, and whatever the generation

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<v Speaker 1>talks about is actually the gold, the juice is in

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<v Speaker 1>the between those two. You know, it's not the two

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<v Speaker 1>opposites at all. And I mean sustainability theater, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>frustrated all the time. Whenever I get a paper straw

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<v Speaker 1>in a restaurant, I think about all the carbon if

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<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere. But Paul, I want to ask, where do

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<v Speaker 1>we go from here? Because at the individual level there's frustration,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you say, government can be slow to move. How

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<v Speaker 1>do we ultimately get started and and fix this? Two things.

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<v Speaker 1>One is um right now, there's no difference between our

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<v Speaker 1>climate denier and somebody who understands the problem and does

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<v Speaker 1>nothing from the most point of view of the same people,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And so you have four people who understand

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<v Speaker 1>it and we're doing nothing. You have ninety of the

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<v Speaker 1>world just disengaged. And no matter how you see this,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't read this science and not under standard. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the greatest crisis humanity has ever faced, and probably

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<v Speaker 1>will you know when you think about it. And so

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<v Speaker 1>how do you become disengaged? And that's your question reverse

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<v Speaker 1>you know, which is how do we become engaged? And

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<v Speaker 1>the way we do it is we've talked about it

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<v Speaker 1>in a very different way, and we talked about possibilities

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<v Speaker 1>instead of probabilities number one. Number two, the rhetoric that

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<v Speaker 1>came out of science, which was good, which is about

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<v Speaker 1>existential threat, which occasion fear activists took that over, got

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<v Speaker 1>to science. Then they blamed, shamed, you know, and pointed

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<v Speaker 1>fingers and so forth. You know, you're the cause, you're

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<v Speaker 1>the problem X and you're it, you know so and

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<v Speaker 1>and then and then you then communicate to people with

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<v Speaker 1>fear threat you know, shame, blame, you know, fingerpointing, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, cabin glaciers, and and then you expect them

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<v Speaker 1>to do something. They're gone, They're off. That channel has

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<v Speaker 1>been turned off, you know yet, Jaman, element is is

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<v Speaker 1>very important. We're gonna talk more about it in just

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<v Speaker 1>a few minutes. Paul Hawkins, Sit tight, because we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be back with you after we do some news. Paul

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<v Speaker 1>Hawkin is environmentalist and author, also the author of his

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<v Speaker 1>new book, Regeneration, Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get right back to Paul Hawkin, environmentalist and author.

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<v Speaker 1>He's also the author of Regeneration, Ending the Climate Crisis

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<v Speaker 1>in One Generation. The book came out yesterday. He's also

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<v Speaker 1>the author of other books as well. He joins us

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<v Speaker 1>once again on the phone from San Francisco. Paul, I

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<v Speaker 1>have the book in my hand right now and There

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<v Speaker 1>are a couple of things that I noticed. One is

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's it's very visually rich. There are lots

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<v Speaker 1>and lots of photographs, beautiful photographs from all around the

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<v Speaker 1>world in the book. The other thing that I noticed

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<v Speaker 1>is how collaborative of an approach this book was. The

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<v Speaker 1>first page is just a list of staff, researchers, contributing writers, says,

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<v Speaker 1>advisors to the book, to the project. Um, take us

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<v Speaker 1>through your approach here, sure, because those books about climate,

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<v Speaker 1>whether they're describing the danger, are the solutions, are pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much somebody saying, look at I've done the research. I

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<v Speaker 1>know you don't listen up, you know, and you you

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<v Speaker 1>may want to do that for sure, and so forth.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like the conversations we need to have their

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<v Speaker 1>constructive or or the we talking to we it's us

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<v Speaker 1>talking to each other in other words. And so if

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have the world inside our organization, inside our board,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, uh, inside the creation of this thing, then

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<v Speaker 1>how can we trust ourselves to create a voice that

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<v Speaker 1>is going to reach as many people as possible as

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<v Speaker 1>a very diverse world now and um, and so it

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<v Speaker 1>works better, it's more fun. Um, we have the book

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<v Speaker 1>it does have a lot of photographs, and the reason

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<v Speaker 1>is that goes to a different part of the brain

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<v Speaker 1>and it does show things that are quite beautiful. And

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<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons for that is to try to

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<v Speaker 1>help people fall in love with the living world. Because

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<v Speaker 1>they've disaggregated climate fund the living world. They think it's

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<v Speaker 1>a thing. It's not a thing. It's part of the

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<v Speaker 1>bias here. Um. You know, you hear in terms like

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to fight it and battle it and combat

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<v Speaker 1>it and mitigate it. And that doesn't work. Nobody wakes

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<v Speaker 1>up in the morning since I can't wait to mitigate today,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. And and so we're behind

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<v Speaker 1>you to ReLit that together, that sensibility that the um,

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<v Speaker 1>the climate is not wrong, it is perfect. It is

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<v Speaker 1>responding exactly to the bias the biasor is creating climate.

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<v Speaker 1>Nature never makes a mistake. We do. And what we're

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<v Speaker 1>getting is homeschooling. We're getting homeschooled by the planet every day.

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<v Speaker 1>And say, take a look at this. What do you

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<v Speaker 1>think about this? Yep, that was a bad one. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm not trying to minimize people's loss or something,

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<v Speaker 1>not at all. I'm not laughing at that. I'm just saying,

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<v Speaker 1>is that when you look at from that point of view,

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<v Speaker 1>then it's feedback, and any system that ignores feedback parishes.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we're a system. We're called humanity, were called civilization.

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<v Speaker 1>We live here on this beautiful planet and it's giving

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<v Speaker 1>us feedback, and our response has been really inadequate, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're trying to change that. So that regeneration, the term

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<v Speaker 1>has big arms and enlarges, is what we are. We

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<v Speaker 1>are regenerative. All of life we generate. It's what you know,

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<v Speaker 1>All thirty chillion cells in your body right now, every

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<v Speaker 1>now a second are regenerating. I mean, you wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>having this conversation as that wasn't true. So regeneration is

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<v Speaker 1>innate to us as people, as families, as fathers and

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<v Speaker 1>mothers and uncles and aunts. You know. It is like

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<v Speaker 1>this is what we do every day, you know. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I wanted to take the climate conversation and and

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<v Speaker 1>not to dismiss the technological solutions. It was certainly not

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<v Speaker 1>to dismiss renewal energy, which is vitally important, but to

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<v Speaker 1>break it open to in a larger sense that people

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<v Speaker 1>feel like that impetus they have innate to them. To

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<v Speaker 1>regenerate life on earth not only creates more life, but

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<v Speaker 1>it brings us ourselves back to life. And so, Paul,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about the regeneration process. Because I'm looking at

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<v Speaker 1>page two forty nine of your book. You've laid out

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<v Speaker 1>a few guidelines. I mean, what principles should people be

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<v Speaker 1>keeping in mind? As you know they try to regenerate, which,

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<v Speaker 1>like you lay out, our bodies are doing every day,

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<v Speaker 1>every minute. Well, the first principle is to understand just

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<v Speaker 1>a working definition, which is mine and you can do

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<v Speaker 1>it yourself, your own definition, but mine is to put

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<v Speaker 1>life at the center of every act and decision. Nor

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<v Speaker 1>harm life or does it increase life? Pretty simple question really,

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<v Speaker 1>But but how do you answer a question like that,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, I think about it from the perspective

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, what what I'm gonna do for dinner tonight? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>I think We're gonna order pizza? Does does that hard?

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<v Speaker 1>You know it's going to be delivered on to us?

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<v Speaker 1>Um how in a bicycle? There you go? Which is

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<v Speaker 1>which I guess? Is it? You know? But but does

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<v Speaker 1>that harm life? Does it does it reduce life? Does

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<v Speaker 1>it help? Should I have gone to the grocery store.

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<v Speaker 1>Should I not have ordered groceries online? Should I go

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<v Speaker 1>walk by foot to groceries? I mean, there are all

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<v Speaker 1>these questions that we can try to answer with that

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<v Speaker 1>checklist every day, and we don't necessarily know the answers

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<v Speaker 1>to them. Of course not. Let's just turn the question

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<v Speaker 1>around and say, do you want to degenerate lifeliners? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think so. That's not your purpose, that's not why

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<v Speaker 1>you're here. And that's what the entire economic sector does.

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<v Speaker 1>It extracts life. If you just go down a supply chain,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll find when you get to it not very far,

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<v Speaker 1>that it is taking life itself, you know, removing it,

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<v Speaker 1>killing it, you know. And the fact is that that's degeneration.

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<v Speaker 1>So the book of saying, well, that road doesn't go

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<v Speaker 1>much further. We can see the end of that. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the ocean of certification. That is extreme, whether that is

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<v Speaker 1>fires we can't even put out, you know, not not

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<v Speaker 1>not just the fire, is not just the northern hemispheres

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<v Speaker 1>on fire. We don't even know how to put the

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<v Speaker 1>fire out anymore. They're so big. And so we can see,

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<v Speaker 1>like we don't want to go down that road any further,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. So we generation is just a

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<v Speaker 1>one eight is a pivot, and it is step by step,

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<v Speaker 1>bit by bit. But at least the question is there,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, if it does it or does it not?

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<v Speaker 1>And does it create more life or reduce it? Does

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<v Speaker 1>it most importantly, does it steal the future or does

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<v Speaker 1>it heal it? And we have this idea of the

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<v Speaker 1>world economic system works the way it does and makes

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<v Speaker 1>so much money for so many people, blah blah blah

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<v Speaker 1>blah because it works well, yes, and it is also

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<v Speaker 1>stealing our future. If it wasn't stealing our future, there

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't be all these headlines about what's happening to the environment, people,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera. And so we pose the question as what

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<v Speaker 1>would it look like to have an economy that heals

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<v Speaker 1>the future. That would be a GDP two. That would

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<v Speaker 1>be revenues too, that would be companies as well, but

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<v Speaker 1>very very different orientation. And it is a question. But

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<v Speaker 1>you have companies. The biggest food company in the world

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<v Speaker 1>is nest Lee and tomorrow they announced that their motto

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<v Speaker 1>going ahead is generation regeneration and and they're taking very

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<v Speaker 1>seriously about Okay, we need to pivot the regenerative agricultural

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<v Speaker 1>systems if we're going to continue to exist as a company,

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<v Speaker 1>as a food company, in this world, in this at

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<v Speaker 1>this time. Paul Hawkins is an environmentalist and also the

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<v Speaker 1>author of Regeneration, Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation.

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<v Speaker 1>The new book came out yesterday. Paul joined us on

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<v Speaker 1>the phone from the San Francisco Bay area. He's also

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<v Speaker 1>an entrepreneur and activist. He's dedicated his life to environmental

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<v Speaker 1>sustainability and changing the relationship between business and the environment.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Hawkins, thank you so much for taking the time