1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from how stupp 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline, 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen, and we are publishing this episode three days 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: after the seventieth anniversary of D Day, which is basically 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: the beginning of the in for World War Two. And 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: so to bring the focus the giant focus of World 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: War Two into our podcast, we wanted to take a 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: look at women during World War two, specifically working women 9 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: during World War Two, because oftentimes in the podcast we 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: will reference how this was a huge period for women. 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: Women were entering the workforce like never before. They were 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: leaving the homes, both single and married women, and going 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: to work in factories and munitions operations, and as we'll 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: look into a couple of other really interesting positions. And 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: so then the question is was this period such a 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: watershed for women's employment outside of the home, Because we 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 1: do cite it so often, it's almost a knee jerk 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: reflex to say, well, world War two, women leave the home, hooray, 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: and then we all live happily ever after. But there 20 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: have now been more recent revisionist histories taking a closer 21 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: look at the permanence of these labor shifts and have 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: found that it might not have been as much of 23 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: a watershed as we thought. So let's give a quick 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: rundown though of World War two the timeline to give 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: you a reference for when all of this is happening. Yeah, 26 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: don't worry, We're not gonna walk you through the entire war, 27 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: so don't don't turn off the podcast. We're just going 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: to sprint through the war. We're going to sprint through 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: the war. So um. For the Chinese, the war World 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: War two began in ninety one when Japan invaded northeast Stern, China. 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: For Europeans, the war began in nineteen thirty nine when 32 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: Germany invaded Poland. And for Americans, as we well know, 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: World War two began on December seventh, nineteen forty one, 34 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. And we time this 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: podcast four d Day, which commemorates the Battle of Normandy, 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: which started on June six in nineteen forty four and 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: lasted through August. And it's considered the beginning of the 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: end of the war because after the Battle of Normandy, 39 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: the Nazi Germany strongholds were starting to fall like dominoes 40 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: across Europe, and so by May nineteen forty five, the 41 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: war in Europe ended, and in the Pacific, the war 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: ended in August nineteen forty five with the nuclear bombing 43 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: of Nagasagi in Hiroshima, Right. And so by nineteen forty five, 44 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: when you're looking at the US specifically, there were twelve 45 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: point two million US military personnel, many of whom were 46 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: volunteers and some of whom were women. And the US 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: itself just specifically, the US experienced more than four hundred 48 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: and seven thousand military casualties during the war. And so 49 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: with all of these millions of people involved in the military, 50 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: so many people overseas, so many casualties, we wanted to 51 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: look at the home front. What were the women folk 52 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: doing while all of the men folk were out fighting. Yeah, 53 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: and not to discount all of the incredible roles that 54 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: women were filling in the military abroad and you know, 55 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: doing their part to fight for Allied freedom. But we 56 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: wanted to take this opportunity to talk about the home 57 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: front too, because I don't think it gets quite as 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: much attention. So what's going on at this time while 59 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, soldiers are fighting in Europe and elsewhere, is 60 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: that there's rationing happening to conserve limited resources, especially food, rubber, 61 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: and steel. You also have the militarism and pro America 62 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: propaganda seeping into all corners of entertainment and pop culture. 63 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: You know, you have war themed movies, radio shows, songs, 64 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: comic books. If you look at Classic Superman and Wonder Woman, 65 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of you know, kind of war themes 66 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: of going and fighting the Nazis. Yeah, even even Disney 67 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: we talked about in our Disney episode. Even Disney did 68 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: a Donald Duck send up of Hitler. So even even 69 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: Donald Duck was involved in World War Two. And you know, 70 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: when you look at families as a whole, they definitely 71 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: were a part of the war effort on the home 72 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: front for sure. Um through various propaganda campaigns, families were 73 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: encouraged to recycle materials, even down to waist fats. So 74 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: after you fry up that bacon, don't forget to save 75 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: the fat and it's and my mother definitely still does that. 76 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: She puts the bacon fat and a tin can and 77 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: puts it in the fridge so she can use it 78 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: to cook green bean, not to make explosives, not to 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: make exploits. In World War two, Um, you were also 80 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: asked to to recycle scrap metal create victory gardens by 81 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: war bonds ration in list of course that's a huge one. 82 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: And stop spreading those war rumors because remember all those 83 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: posters that said things like loose lips sink ships, And 84 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: they had all these sexist posters to about like men 85 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: sitting around smoking cigars discussing war strategy, and like a 86 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: woman listening from the background, like, hey, don't talk about 87 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: the war in front of the lady. That he's such 88 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: a war gossip, such a war gossip. But I mean 89 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: speaking of victory gardens. Um, this was a huge thing. 90 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: This was a huge part of that whole food ration 91 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: ng aspect. And in nineteen forty four alone, twenty one 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: million families had planted seven million acres of victory gardens 93 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: that yielded eight million tons of vegetables. Can you imagine? 94 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: Uh No, I can't imagine, because now we are so 95 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: I feel like our even even in suburbia back then, 96 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, you have all these victory gardens popping up, 97 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: and I feel like it's so rare these days that 98 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: we see that kind of suburban and more urban gardening. 99 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: Um although there have been revivals of it in pockets 100 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: around the country here and there. But I do remember 101 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: learning about victory gardens for the first time Caroline while 102 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: reading the American Girl series about Molly, because she was 103 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: she was my favorite American girl doll, even though I 104 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: owned Samantha. But I liked Molly the most because she 105 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: grew up during World War Two and for some reason, 106 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 1: as a child, I was very fascinated with that time 107 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: period interesting and I loved the idea of the rationing 108 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: and growing a victory garden just like Molly. All these things. Anyway, 109 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: apparently I'm a woman after my time. Um. Well, getting 110 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: getting into what really the focus of our episode today 111 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: will be about is we also have to talk about 112 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: the millions of new jobs that were created to support 113 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: the military's efforts here in the US on US soil. 114 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: As a result of all these jobs, there was a 115 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: large scale migration to city centers, industrial centers, and all 116 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: of this increased industrial activity led to more opportunities for 117 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: good paying war work for African Americans and for women. 118 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: And if you want to look at a great example 119 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: of someone who fits into both of those categories. Mary 120 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: mclaude Bethune, who was the president of the National Association 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: of Colored Women and founder of the National Council on 122 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: Negro Women, helped to publicize the availability of new job 123 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: opportunities through Black women's clubs and publications, and she also 124 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: promoted greater opportunities for women of color as a consultant 125 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: to US government agencies on labor matters and female officer candidates. 126 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: And even outside of paid employment, women were also rushing 127 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: to volunteer their services. So you have women's auxiliary organizations 128 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: forming to volteer for the military and civilian civil defense organizations. 129 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: You also have a lot of women training to drive ambulances, 130 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: fight fires, provide emergency medical treatment, become drivers for the 131 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: Red Cross, and motorcycle couriers. I mean it sounds like, 132 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: really this is also an opportunity when a lot of 133 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: cool kinds of jobs, whether paid or unpaid, are popping 134 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: up for women. Because this came up to in our 135 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: episode on firefighting women a while back, when you see 136 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: the spike in women's participation in local firefighting departments during 137 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: World War Two because the men are off fighting Nazis, 138 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: so the women have to stay home to fight the fires, right, 139 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: somebody has to put out the fires, and I mean 140 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: it's it's a shame that it took a war for 141 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: women to be able to do that in any sort 142 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: of official capacity. But anyway, let's look at the numbers, 143 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: shall we. So before the war in the United States, 144 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: eleven point five million women were working, so already there 145 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,119 Speaker 1: was definitely a strong female presence in the U. S. Workforce. 146 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: But during the war we always hear about this massive 147 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: influx of women getting jobs. So six million at least um. Now, 148 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: during the war, as we often hear about this massive 149 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: influx of women into jobs. During World War Two, we 150 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: have over six million new women entering the workforce, around 151 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: half of whom are working in the war industries. And 152 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: so between nineteen forty and nineteen forty five, the female 153 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: percentage of the U. S workforce increased from twenty seven 154 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: percent to nearly thirty seven percent. And from the end 155 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty three through early nineteen four, during the 156 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: peak of war production, around fifty of US women were employed. 157 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: So this is where why you hear all the time 158 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: about how this was unprecedented for you know, women's participation 159 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: the workforce right, And you know, there there is the 160 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: whole pay aspect that women basically provided cheap labor while 161 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: the men were gone. I mean, they rarely made more 162 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: than of what the men had earned. But think about it, 163 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: these jobs were paying higher salaries than the jobs that 164 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: were traditionally categorized as women's work, the work that was 165 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: acceptable for women to do outside of the home, things 166 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: like being a teacher, being in domestic service, clerical work, nursing, 167 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: stuff like that. UM and I thought it was interesting. 168 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: There was one study we looked at that that highlighted 169 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: women's participation in the auto manufacturing and electrical manufacturing industries. Specifically, 170 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: they pulled out just this information UM and pointed out 171 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: that in women made up twenty two point four percent 172 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: of auto manufacturing industry workers. And they also made up 173 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: of the United Auto Workers Union. And that's a whole 174 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: other aspect to that's so cred goal because during World 175 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: War Two the UAW had two hundred and fifty thousand 176 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: female members. That's huge. It even established a Women's bureau 177 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: in its War Policy Division that in nineteen forty four 178 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: addressed pay inequalities between male and female workers. And the 179 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: auto sector is a standout example because prior to the war, 180 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: there were very few women working in that type of 181 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: manufacturing compared to electrical engineering, which actually employed a lot 182 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: of women before the war. But if you look at 183 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ten in the auto industry, only three percent of 184 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: it was comprised by female workers. Yeah, and so going 185 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: over to the electrical manufacturing industry, um, comparing that to 186 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: auto in women made up forty seven point five per 187 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 1: cent of those workers, and they made up of the 188 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: United Electrical Workers unions, so they definitely had a voice. 189 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: They might have been in sort of an unfortunate the 190 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: temporary work situation. I don't think they quite knew at 191 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: the time how temporary would end up being, but they 192 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: had a voice while they were there. And if you 193 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: just look at manufacturing across all of those different industries, 194 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: women's employment grew one during World War Two. So looking 195 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: at some other specific types of jobs that women were doing, 196 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: I found some articles on women being computers. Yes, women 197 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: as computers, not women programming computers, but actually being human computers. Right. 198 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: And what's so interesting about this line of work is 199 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: that it was kind of secret. It was kind of 200 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: a top secret wartime work mission in nineteen, hundreds of 201 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: women were recruited to work as computer tours, and they 202 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: were targeted for their math skills. Usually they had either 203 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: studied or majored in math in college. And basically what 204 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: they did as computers they would calculate the weapons trajectories 205 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: for soldiers overseas, often working double or triple shifts um. 206 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: They would use mechanical dusk calculators to solve these long 207 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: lists of equations and then send those results in table 208 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: form to the gunnery officers. And they also were able 209 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: to take into account variable conditions like temperature and air density, 210 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: and even calculate weather an enemy with standing or lying 211 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: in a trench. Yeah, and I mean that kind of 212 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: explains why a lot of this was top secret work. 213 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: And you have people though, like Lila Todd, who was 214 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: an example of a specialist. She was a specialized human 215 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: computer who operated a differential analyzer that calculated shell or 216 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: bombs flight paths as they flew through the air. Now, 217 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: of course, today all of this is completely mechanized and 218 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, can be calculated in a split second. But 219 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: in these early days you have a host of women 220 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: like Lila Todd and others who are are doing these 221 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: important calculations for the military. Yeah, and I did read that. 222 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: You know, there were machines that could do various types 223 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: of calculations are set up the equations, but the women, 224 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: as the computers, were really expected to check the machines accuracy. 225 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: The machines were not to be trusted, and we would 226 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: be remiss so to not mention that. Out of this 227 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: military World War two fueled focus on computing, you have 228 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: the development of the ENIAC, which was one of the 229 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: first electronic digital computers, and it was a group of 230 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: six women quote unquote human computers who had been trained 231 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: during World War Two, Kame McNulty, Francis Biolas, Betty Jean Jennings, 232 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Snyder, Ruth Lichtman, and Maryland Westcoff who were chosen 233 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: to program it. So early stem history in there for 234 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: you folks. That's awesome. Um In, I just this next one. 235 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: I just have like this great montage, this imaginary montage 236 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: in my head of of these women going down the street. 237 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: But in New Orleans they were affected by the war 238 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: because all their conductors left. Women had to work as 239 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: streetcar conductorates. And I just imagined them with like a 240 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: jaunty hat like pulling the whistle going down the street. Now, 241 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: I mentioned manufacturing a few minutes ago. Not surprisingly, if 242 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: you look at the major war industries like metalworking, chemical, 243 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: rubber that saw a major jump in women's employment of 244 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: four hundred sixty percent during the war, and the munitions 245 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: industry in particular heavily recruited women's workers. This is where 246 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: you get all those riveters, all those Rosie the riveters 247 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: lining up. Yeah, and the industry that saw the greatest 248 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: increase in female workers was the aviation industry, which makes sense. 249 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: More than three thousand women worked in the US aircraft 250 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: industry in which represented of the industry's total workforce, compared 251 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: to just one percent in the pre war years. So 252 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: we've established that, yes, there was this influx of women 253 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: into these various industries, some directly related to the war, 254 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: some not so much. But the government didn't just snap 255 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: its fingers and have all these women magically appear on 256 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: the job. Rather, they had to develop a propaganda program 257 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: to sell the idea of women in particularly married women 258 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: working outside of the home. And we're going to get 259 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: into that propaganda campaign, and yes, we are going to 260 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: talk some about Rosie the Riveter when we come right 261 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: back from a quick break. So all right before the break, 262 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: we were discussing the industries that women were entering, all 263 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: of the different jobs that they were taking over as 264 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: the men were going overseas to fight in World War two, 265 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: and how it wasn't necessarily an overnight sensation that all 266 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: of these women entered these various very masculine, traditionally masculine jobs. 267 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: It was as an effort, and during this time the 268 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: government turned to the War Advertising Council, which created the 269 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: Women in War Jobs campaign to stress the need for 270 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: women to do their patriotic duty, walk outside of their 271 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: homes and get a gerb. Jobs that were previously seen 272 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: as super masculine were now compared to housework to let 273 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: women know, hey, you can rivet yeah, And we've we've 274 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: read a lot about this in the book Gender at Work, 275 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: The Dynamics of Job Segregation by Sex during World War Two, 276 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: which yes, it is a bit of a page turner 277 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: and that might not sound like it um And it 278 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: talks though about how World War two really saw the 279 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: extension of occupational sex segregation, where if you were to 280 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: walk into an electrical engineering plant, you would have the 281 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: women doing certain types of tasks that were highly repetitive, 282 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: reliant on a lot of manual dexterity, a lot of 283 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: focus and attention, whereas men would have done jobs that 284 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: required perhaps more physical stamina. And they then go into 285 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: talking about how war work was sold to women and 286 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: the author's right wartime propaganda imagery of a woman's place 287 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: on the nation's production lines consistently portrayed women's war work 288 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: as a temporary extension of domesticity, and jobs that have 289 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: been previously viewed as the quintessentially masculine were suddenly endowed 290 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: with femininity and glamour for the duration. And as a 291 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: result of this propaganda campaign, you also see articles in 292 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: popular media publicizing this need and probably to like adding 293 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: to that glamour effect of saying, oh, hey, no women, 294 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: we need you, come on, come to work. So, in 295 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: for instance, you have a Fortune magazine article headlined the 296 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: margin now is woman power, and which kind of sounds 297 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: like an article you'd still see rich in magazine. And 298 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: in the same year, Newsweek reported that the government needed 299 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: three point two million new workers and quote most of 300 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: these will have to be women. So they were really, 301 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: you know, pushing, pushing this message. Yeah, well you had 302 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: to fill the slots. I mean yeah, I mean it's 303 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: some cheap lady labor. We needed to build planes and 304 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: guns and all sorts of things. And who better to 305 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: build you a plane than a lovely lady named Rosie. 306 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 1: That's right. So the Rosie the Riveter propaganda campaign was 307 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: I mean, she was a character. She was. She was 308 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: just a character. But I love reading the Rosie mythology 309 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: because some some real Rosie's come up that people say 310 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: that she's based on. Among some other women, we have 311 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: rose will Monroe, who moved to Michigan during the war 312 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: and worked as a riveter building B twenty nine and 313 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: B twenty four bombers, and she Rosie the character appeared 314 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: in various incarnations throughout the war. Um Her origins lie 315 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: around sometime around ninety two, when a Westinghouse artist named J. 316 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: Howard Miller created that we Can Do It campaign, probably 317 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: as part of his company's war work. And she's the 318 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: prototype for the Rosy we think of and the we 319 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: can Do It poster rolling up her sleeve. But there's 320 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: also other Rosie characters during this time. There's a song 321 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: titled Rosie the Riveter that was written by John Jacob 322 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: Lobe and Red Evans, that was released in early nineteen 323 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: forty three, and the lyrics described the role that she filled. 324 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: They said, she's part of the assembly line, she's making history, 325 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: she's working for victory. She's Rosie the Riveter. And that 326 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: is definitely a song I would love to hear. But 327 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: it was supposedly inspired by Rosalind P. Walter, who worked 328 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: also as a riveter on the night shift on a 329 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: course there building the f for You Marine gold winged 330 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: fighter airplane. She later became a philanthropist Lottie Dab, but 331 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: she inspired that. Yeah, And that was not the only 332 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: Rosie the Riveter song. There was also one by the 333 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: Four Vagabonds, and I enjoyed its lyrics that went, while 334 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: other girls attend a favorite cocktail bar sipping dry Martini's, 335 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: munching caviare nice rhyme or vagabonds, there's a girl who's 336 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: really putting them to shame. Rosie is her name, all 337 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: day long with a rain of sean and she's part 338 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: of the assembly line. And come to find out in 339 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: this Rosie the Riveter lore, she also had a boyfriend 340 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: named Charlie who was a soldier off fighting. So she 341 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: was working, doing her riveting, hoping that Charlie could come 342 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: home and then she could retire her red bandana. After 343 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: they get married and she becomes Rosie the housewife. How 344 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: how surprised Charlie would be when Rosie wanted to hang 345 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: onto that red bandanna, And how surprised Charlie would be 346 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: when his wife became a feminist icon. That's right. Well, 347 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: if we look to art and pop culture, we we 348 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: can't forget to mention Norman Rockwell um on Maree. His 349 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: depiction of Rosie appeared on the cover of the Saturday 350 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: Evening Post, and while nineteen year old Mary Doyle served 351 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: as the model for his Rosie, he made some drastic 352 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: changes to her appearance, making her more muscular. And when 353 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: I say that he made drastic changes, I mean if 354 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: you compare his Rosie on the cover of the magazine 355 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: to Michaelangelo's depiction of Isaiah from the Sistine Chapel, Like, 356 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: there's your Rosie, that that big prophet Isaiah on the 357 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: freaking ceiling of that. That's that's Rosie, just in overalls 358 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: and a woman. Hey, he'll take it. Yeah, And and 359 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: and when he's like bending his arm. I don't know 360 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: what he's doing on the Sistine show. I don't know 361 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: what he's doing on the Sistine Chapel ceiling. But but 362 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: Rosie has a sandwich in that hand, something that I 363 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: greatly appreciate. Now for the US government selling this idea 364 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: of going to work was not too tough when you're 365 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: talking to a group of Rosie the riveters, and by 366 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: that I mean younger women who were probably unmarried, might 367 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: have had their you know, Charlie boyfriends off fighting, they 368 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: didn't have kids. It wasn't a crazy idea at the 369 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: time for a woman to work before she got married, 370 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: because I mean you have to remember too that this 371 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: was also the time when you start having what we're 372 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 1: called marriage bands. We talked about this in our teaching 373 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: episode a little while ago about how essentially as soon 374 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: as you got married, or if you were married, you 375 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: were barred from being hired by a lot of different places, 376 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: and so you have that eroding and the US government 377 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: was having to make this much tougher sell in this 378 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: era of marriage bands to get married women on the 379 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: job as well. And we read about this in the 380 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: book Our Mother's War American women at home and at 381 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: the front during World War two, and they signed a 382 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: ninety six poll which found that eighty two percent of 383 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: Americans believed that wives should not work if their husbands 384 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: have jobs. And you have to remember that only one 385 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: in ten new women workers during World War two had 386 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: soldier husbands, because earlier in the war there were automatic 387 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: wife exemptions basically like, oh, I got a wife, can't 388 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: go to war because I gotta stay home and take 389 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: care of her or the and and then that gave 390 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: way to like, okay, well, if you have a wife, 391 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: that's son enough. But if you have kids and a wife, 392 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: then you then you're not going to go. And gradually 393 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: those fell away, but it was still pretty common for 394 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: husbands with wives and children to not be called to action. 395 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: But because there was a lot of resistance for those 396 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: women who had you know, civilian husbands who were still 397 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: had jobs and we're working, there's a lot of resistance 398 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 1: to allowing those wives to war. You have articles like 399 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: this one published in the Nation in headlined America's Pampered 400 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: Husband's basically calling out these civilian guys who weren't keen 401 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: on their wives working, which again that was a lot 402 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: of them basically saying like, hey, guys, you can you 403 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: can make your own sandwiches. Rosie the riverter makes her 404 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: own sandwiches, you can too. It's not a big deal. 405 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: So that was interesting to me to to read about 406 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: how this was one one facet of this whole women's 407 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: work issue that was probably the most challenging for then 408 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: the US war propaganda machine. Well, yeah, because you don't 409 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: think about women's husbands still being hometelling them they can't 410 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: go to work. We do. We just think of World 411 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: War two is this time when it's like the parents 412 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: are gone, you know, the cats away, the mice will play. 413 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: It's like the doors are just open and women are 414 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: like stepping outside into the sunlight, you know, blocking the 415 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: sun from their eyes, going like, I can get a job. Well. 416 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: I wonder though, how many of those women really wanted 417 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: to get jobs too. It was probably a tough sell 418 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: to them as well. But there was also this great 419 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: letter published in that book, Our Mother's War from this 420 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: woman who was married. I don't think she had any kids, 421 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,719 Speaker 1: but her husband was in the military and she had 422 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: gotten uh, some kind of manufacturing job in one of 423 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: the war industries, and she was so excited telling him 424 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: about how she opened her own checking account, and she 425 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: was like, Oh, it's the best feeling in the world 426 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: to be able to write a check and not have 427 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: to ask anyone for permission. Oh, what a what a 428 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: wonderful thing, and what a nice little dig. Yeah, but 429 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: she was like, but she was genuinely overjoyed by it. Absolutely. 430 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: But you know, and that sounds great women women are 431 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: working in their opening their checking accounts, But we didn't 432 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: end up in some amazing equal opportunity, equal working rights utopia. 433 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: And as soon as the war was over. So what 434 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: happened after the war was over, Well, if you think 435 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: about it, you know, we cited earlier in the podcast 436 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: that by there were twelve point two million US military 437 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: personnel involved in the war. Let's assume a majority of 438 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: those are men. So you have all these guys coming 439 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: back and they need their jobs back, right. Yeah. Basically, 440 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: basically after the war, women went home or they were 441 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: expected to go back into traditionally female occupations. And you know, 442 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: most industry analysts and government planners expected them to. And 443 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: not only did they expect women to go back to 444 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 1: the home or back to their clerical work, but they 445 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: expected women to want to do that, So how surprised 446 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: they must have been when the Women's Bureau of the 447 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: Department of Labor got their survey results back after asking 448 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: women workers about their future plans at the end of 449 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: the war, when they pulled all of these women, they 450 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: found that many wanted to stay, but factories were converting 451 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: to peacetime production and refused to rehire a lot of 452 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: these women. Of the woman women they talked to said 453 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: that they expected to be a part of the post 454 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: war labor force, and eight six percent of those looked 455 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: forward to staying in their very same industry. And when 456 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: you look at the women who were employed both before 457 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor was attacked and during the war, of those women, 458 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: so the majority of those women said that they wanted 459 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: to stay employed. These were women who, not to sound melodramatic, 460 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: but they'd gotten a taste of freedom. They had opened 461 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: their own checking accounts. They had been independent either while 462 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: their husbands worked at their normal jobs or while their 463 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: husbands and boyfriends were overseas fighting the war. And how 464 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: disappointing that so many of them were forced out of 465 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: their manufacturing jobs. Well, and one thing that jumped out 466 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: too in that post war report from the Women's Bureau 467 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: of the Department of Labor, it was as though they 468 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: were opening their eyes for the first time to this 469 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: idea of female breadwinners, because they found that out of 470 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: every one hundred married women who were living in family 471 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: groups of two or more people, eleven said they were 472 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: the only wage earner supporting the family group. And so 473 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: they go on to say that quote the state of 474 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: marriage therefore does not in itself always mean there is 475 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: a male provider for the family. How interesting. So this 476 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,239 Speaker 1: is the period that a lot of people are very 477 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: interested in, including us, looking at were was this the 478 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: watershed moment that we think it was? Was this was 479 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: World War two the period that ushered in more and 480 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: more women working. Yes, it was, but it's not exactly 481 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: super cut and dry, because so many women were forced 482 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: out of their manufacturing jobs. But the service sector was expanding. 483 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: So even though women were having to leave certain jobs, 484 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: some of them went home, but some of them also 485 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: transitioned over to the service sector. Yeah. Essentially, blue collar 486 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: women transitioned to be um pink collar women as we 487 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: think of it more today, with pink collar jobs being 488 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: more oriented towards customer service waitresses, clerical work secretaries, etcetera. 489 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: And on top of this two, you have to remember 490 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: the cultural climate of the post war years where you're 491 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: having this baby boom happen. You're having this resurgence of 492 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,239 Speaker 1: you know, traditional domesticity. I'll leave it to beaver with 493 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: the wife at home and you know, the husband going 494 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: out and for the first time too. I mean also 495 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: remember for the war, we had the depression, and so 496 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: this was also a new period where due to the 497 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: economic boom time happening, it was possible for a lot 498 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: more families than it was prior to the war to 499 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: have a soul breadwinner. And that soul breadwinner would have 500 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: in this time, you know, had to have been a guy. 501 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it would have been a man going out 502 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: to to earn the wage for his June Cleaver, right, 503 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: And a lot of authors that we've looked at we're 504 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: talking about the defeminization of these manufacturing jobs as men 505 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: came back. And remember at the top of the podcast, 506 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: we were looking at the auto manufacturing and electrical manufacturing 507 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: industries in particular because they had a really high percentage 508 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: of women in ninety five. That drop though, if you 509 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: look at auto manufacturing in particular. Granted it had a 510 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: very low pre war women percentage, but the percent of 511 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: women involved in the auto manufacturing industry dropped from twenty 512 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: two point four percent in nineteen forty five to just 513 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: nine point five percent in nineteen forty six, So that's 514 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: that's not like that's a huge amount of time. In 515 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: electrical manufacturing, it dropped from a high of forty seven 516 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: point five percent in nineteen forty five to thirty nine 517 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: point four percent in nineteen forty six. So it leads 518 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: us back to that original question of whether or not 519 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: World War two really did have a direct role in 520 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: the eventual rise in women workers and even feminism, because 521 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: there's that one major school of thought that we hear 522 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: all the time and we say all the time on 523 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: the podcast that World War two was this watershed moment 524 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: for women's employment, because I mean, we have to acknowledge it. 525 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: From nine to night, the average hourly earnings of female 526 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: manufacturing workers, for instance, rose relative to that for male workers. 527 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: Even though we're still underpaid. We were by the end 528 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: of it less underpaid than we were before. But some say, 529 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: some like Claudia Golden, who has looked a lot into 530 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: this issue. She says, not so much, though you can't 531 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: make that blanket statement at least. Yeah. Golden's been writing 532 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: about this very specific topic for years, and in a 533 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: paper she and her co author were writing about how 534 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: basically states with a higher mobilization of men i e. 535 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: Soldiers heading overseas saw more women getting into the labor force. Okay, 536 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: that makes sense. If you have a bigger gap in employment, 537 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: you're going to have more women fill it um. But 538 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: she actually points out that the impact was strongest among 539 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: those women with higher levels of educational attainment. She says 540 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: that among those with at least a high school diploma, 541 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: almost eighty percent were in white collar jobs, and for 542 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: those with less than a high school diploma, just twenty 543 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: percent were in white collar positions. About seventy were in 544 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: blue collar jobs, and the vast majority of these were 545 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: in manufacturing. And so for those women in manufacturing, remember 546 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: they're kind of pushed out and transitioned into more pink 547 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: collar work. And so it seems like when it comes 548 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,239 Speaker 1: to Rosie, the riveter life might not have been so 549 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: grand for her after Charlie came home, right, because, as 550 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: as Golden points out, she says, Look, by nineteen fifty, 551 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: these women's occupations, both blue collar, white collar, they weren't 552 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: that much different than they were in nineteen forty four, 553 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: except that those manufacturing positions like Rosie the Riveter held 554 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: decreased and the service occupations took their place among the 555 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: lesser educated group. So if you have higher educational attainment, 556 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna be okay regardless. But it's those women 557 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: who were among the lesser educated groups that are probably 558 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: going to get shoved into poor paying and honestly less 559 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: exciting jobs. They're they're not riveting anymore. Yeah, I mean, 560 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: and and these are probably gonna be similar patterns that 561 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: you will continue to see even today when it comes 562 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: to I mean, what kind of educational attainment and socio 563 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: economic background, how that precludes you to the kind of 564 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: work that you end up in. And I don't think 565 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: that it would take an economist to tell you that 566 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: that kind of pattern between let's face it, more of 567 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: at least educationally speaking, haves and have not. It's probably 568 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: probably persists beyond the World War two era. But we 569 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 1: bring this up to maybe do a little a little 570 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: revisionist history of our own to add some context to 571 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: Rosie the Riveter, whether or not this really was that 572 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: watershed moment, whether you know all all of the different 573 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: moving parts of women entering the workforce and mass and 574 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: the numbers that we see today. It wasn't just a well, okay, 575 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: wars broken out, here we go. Yeah. It took some convincing. 576 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: And then once once they were in those roles, the 577 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: bulk of the women who were filling those roles were like, Okay, 578 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to stay. Could I stay? This would be great. 579 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay, And people are like, no, I can say. 580 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: And to that point though, about World War two's impact 581 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: on feminism, one of the things we read was talking 582 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: about how not so much World War two, but really 583 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: the civil rights movement that lit that fire in terms 584 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: of organizing and demonstrating. And so maybe that's another podcast 585 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: for another time, but this has been our d Day 586 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: World War two commemorative episode. I hope you learned some 587 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: things about that era that you didn't already know. I 588 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: know I did, And I'm really interested in hearing from 589 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: listeners out there who might have a grandmother or a 590 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: great grandmother who who worked during this period. Yeah, let 591 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: us know any any cool photos that you have from 592 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,720 Speaker 1: that time too. I love someone I still love World 593 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: War two era nostalgia. And you can send those emails 594 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: to us and mom stuff at how stuff works dot com, 595 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: where you can also tweet us or messages on Facebook. 596 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with 597 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: you right now. So we have a couple of Facebook 598 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: messages to share with you about our episode, fittingly enough, 599 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: on military spouses, and this first one comes from Christopher 600 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: and he writes, I would love to give you some 601 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: feedback from the perspective of a male service member with 602 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: nineteen years experience. Being a military spouse is probably the 603 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: toughest job I know of. I may go into harm's 604 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: way in defense of this country, but I also do 605 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: so willingly, knowing exactly what I'm getting my self into. 606 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: Any spouse never signed up for this. They just happen 607 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: to fall in love with one of us. When we leave. 608 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: They keep the home front all on their own, never 609 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: knowing when they'll hear from us, or if that knock 610 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: on the door is going to be someone telling them 611 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: that their loved one is injured or worse. They need 612 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: to have that time at home to take care of 613 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: the house, the kids, the bills, etcetera. My brother in 614 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: law recently moved in with his wife and I and 615 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: he was shocked at just how much my wife does 616 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: just being a housewife. This creates a lot of stress 617 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: for them. From my own experience, this is the root 618 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: of why so many marriages fail in the military. It's 619 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: that either the service member or the spouse doesn't realize 620 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: this fully until that first serious deployment. That's why I 621 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: recommend that a couple should go through a deployment together first. 622 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: This is also the root of other such problems, such 623 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: as the high rate of infidelity within the military. It's 624 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: due to loneliness. One thing that I took to heart 625 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: were the comments about the stigma associated with the supposed 626 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: laziness of military spouses and the reasons you pointed out 627 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: about the moves and such affecting long term relationships and jobs. 628 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 1: My brother in law recently moved in with my wife 629 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: and I and he was shocked at just how much 630 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: my wife does being a housewife. This creates a lot 631 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: of stress for them. From my own experience, this is 632 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: the root of why so many marriages fail in the military. 633 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: That either the service member or the spouse doesn't fully 634 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: realize this until that first serious deployment, and that's why 635 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 1: I recommend that a couple should go through a deployment 636 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: together first. So thanks for that insight, Christopher, and I 637 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: have a letter here from Brooke looking at sort of 638 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: the darker side of what can happen among military spouses. 639 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: But Brooke writes that she was really excited to hear 640 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: the episode on Military Wives. I myself am a former 641 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: military wife. My ex husband was a tanker during the 642 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: thunder run in Iraq and we were stationed at Fort 643 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: Knox after he came back state side. I can vouch 644 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: for most things that were discussed in your podcast, including 645 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: the extramarital fairs. My ex husband was physically, verbally and 646 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: sexually abusive, and I allowed him to belittle me until 647 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: I true really had not an ounce of self esteem 648 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: left over. He came back from Iraq with an STD 649 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: which he blamed me for giving him, and slept around 650 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: with anything that looked his way. It wasn't until he 651 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: slept with his first sergeant's wife, a friend of mine 652 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: the less that I had proof enough to leave him. 653 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: The Army didn't punish to mote or reprimand him at all. Instead, 654 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: they backed him up, protected him, and allowed him to 655 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: stay and listed as a non commission officer. I was 656 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: disgusted as this was not behavior that was deemed becoming 657 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 1: of an n c O. With more and more stories 658 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: making headlines about these types of situations, I can only 659 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 1: hope that the armed forces will start to see the 660 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: forest for the trees and deal with these soldiers that 661 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: they should be dealt with instead of leaving the military 662 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: spouses to deal with it on their own. The spouse 663 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: is there to pick up the pieces when they come 664 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: back from combat, but receives no support when there's trouble 665 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: in their own home. Thanks for listening and giving us 666 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: something great to listen to, and thank you Brooke for 667 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: writing in. Yeah, and thanks to everybody who's written into us. 668 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: Mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 669 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: email address and to find links to all of our 670 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: social media, every single one of our podcast blow and videos, 671 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: please head on over to stuff Mom Never Told You 672 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 673 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com