1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Philadelphia, a mystery along the Cooper River after police pulled 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: two cars out of the water. And that's not all 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: that they found. This afternoon, Goodie being. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: Hensock and police confirmed today that a third vehicle was 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: recovered from the Cooper River in South Jersey. 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 3: Now on the ground, we see crime scene investigators sifting 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 3: through the mud, the debris and presumably now evidence. 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 2: There corpse was found inside one of those cars. The 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: identity of that person is pending DNA testing. The FBI 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: is assisting in that investigation. 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is therein Gone South Street 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Episode nine. Corruption's a same in machine reached out in 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: the dog. 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 4: For you, PI last to me, I'll never give up, 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 4: no matter how I opened my eyes. 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 5: Define car. 17 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: Just to note that the views and opinions expressed in 18 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This 19 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: podcast also contained subject matter which may not be suitable 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: for everyone. Discretion is advised. On an early Saturday morning 21 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: in May twenty twenty four, my phone started blowing up. 22 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: First came text messages from friends saying did you see this? 23 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: It was a link to an article about three cars 24 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: being pulled from a river in Pennsauken, New Jersey. Then 25 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: came a flurry of other messages saying one of the 26 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: vehicles pulled from the water was reported to contain a body. 27 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: That morning, my colleague Ben picked me up and we 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: headed to Jersey. 29 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 3: Pennsauken is absolutely within like the radius. It's twenty minutes 30 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: from Danielle's apartment. It's just outside of Philadelphia, just over 31 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 3: the Van Franklin Bridge. 32 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: Ben and I were headed to the Cooper River, which 33 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: flows into the Delaware River. If geography isn't your thing, 34 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: the Delaware River actually divides New Jersey from Pennsylvania and 35 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: the rivers. It's about four blocks from the bar where 36 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: Danielle and Richard were last seen leaving. It's just crazy 37 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: that there's one body found in the car I knew. 38 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: According to the article, the police were set up near 39 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: a driving range near the Cooper River. 40 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 3: That secluded that secluded. 41 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: By the time we arrived, TV news crews were on site, 42 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: along with a helicopter hovering overhead. At first glance, the 43 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: spot wasn't exactly where I would imagine someone would dump 44 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: a car. While crews pulled vehicles out of the river, 45 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: there were people one hundred feet away working on their 46 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: golf swings. Ben was on the phone with FBI agent 47 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: Fido Rosselli and I walked around the area. By that time, 48 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: the search and rescue teams had parked their vehicles as 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: a sort of shield, so we couldn't really see what 50 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: was going on. When I got back to the car, 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: I could tell from Ben's face that we hit another 52 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: dead end. 53 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 6: I hear anything with by getting update for my good 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 6: I'll get you out sounds good. 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: Appreciate it, and sure enough, none of the three vehicles 56 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: pulled from the water belonged to Richard. According to NBC News, 57 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: the body found in one of those cars was later 58 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: identified as a Jersey woman who had been missing since 59 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: twenty ten. Don't get me wrong, we're both relieved for 60 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: the family of that missing New Jersey woman, but it's 61 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: a rollercoaster of emotion. This whole experience was a reminder 62 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: that on any given day, a discovery could be made 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: that would turn this case on its head. Anytime a 64 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: car is found, Danielle and Richard's names will come up. 65 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: It's all just a mind fuck. I can't even imagine 66 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: how many times the families had to go through something 67 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: like this. 68 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 5: If you're listening and you're not in their shoes, you 69 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 5: should feel grateful. 70 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: That's journalist Steve Volk. He wrote about Danielle and Richard's disappearance. 71 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 5: I would love some. 72 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 7: Kind of peace for those families to put to bed 73 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 7: the what ifs. 74 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: The what ifs in this case are endless. What if 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. 76 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: What if it was murder for hire. What if the 77 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: car was crushed, What if the car was in the water. 78 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: What if it was crushed then put in the water. 79 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 5: There's no luck that created this. I don't see it. 80 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 7: You have to have resources and connections to make a 81 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 7: truck disappear. This was done seemingly professionally, and we don't 82 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 7: know who, but there is at least one person out. 83 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 5: There who knows. 84 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: Here's FBI agent Vido Rosselli. 85 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 8: It's not going to get solved by forensics. This will 86 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 8: get solved by somebody coming forward that had information, had 87 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 8: certain keys that could tie this whole thing together. 88 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: At least one person and quite possibly many many other 89 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: people know something. 90 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 8: Logic would indicate it's at least two people that are 91 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 8: confronting the victims, and then you're going to have at 92 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 8: least a third person controlling the two people. 93 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: And then to dispose of Richard's three thousand pound Dodge 94 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: to codea pickup. 95 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 8: Generally that would take two people too. The one person 96 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 8: to drive the truck up there, another person to have 97 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 8: a forklift to soft crush the vehicle right and then 98 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 8: put it somewhere where it's not going to be seen. 99 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 8: So that's going to be at least a couple of 100 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 8: people just to get the truck crushed. 101 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: If you start adding up the potential number of people 102 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: involved in disposing the vehicle from start to finish, that's 103 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: another two to four people minimum, and without any physical evidence, 104 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: the only way Vito and the FBI are going to 105 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: solve it is for someone to come forward and talk. 106 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 6: I don't know how many people have direct knowledge, but 107 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 6: these types of crimes are normally hard to keep quiet. 108 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 6: Several folks out there. I got to know directly from 109 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 6: the horse's mouth what happened. And also there are a 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 6: lot of people dead in this case that I wish 111 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 6: I could go talk to. 112 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: Vido never said who those people were, but I can 113 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: think of two names right off the bat, Rob Lafloor, 114 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: and Robert Carrey. Lafloor owned the junkyard believed to be 115 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: where Richard's truck was crushed, and Robert Carey was the 116 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: rumored hitman. Lafloora died of an overdose in twenty twelve. 117 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: Carrie took his own life in jail in twenty ten. 118 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: Journalist Steve Volk wrote extensively about Robert Carrey in a 119 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen article in Philadelphia Magazine. 120 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 7: The police questioned him directly. You know they didn't get 121 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 7: anything from him, is my understanding. 122 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: Back in twenty ten, the Philadelphia Daily News had already 123 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: named Robert Carey as the alleged hitman and Danielle and 124 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: Richard's disappearance. 125 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 7: I remember hearing about Robert Carey as somebody that would 126 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 7: have been potentially available for hire. They had a reputation 127 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 7: link for potentially being a hit man. It wasn't that 128 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 7: big a deal to him to do this sort of work, 129 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 7: so if somebody asked him for a favor or whatever, 130 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 7: he'd be potentially available. 131 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: If you remember, Robert Carey was accused of beating someone 132 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: up so badly that he knocked out the victim's left eye. 133 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 7: He was the roughest customer in one of the roughest neighborhoods, 134 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 7: if not the roughest neighborhood in Philly. 135 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: The neighborhood steps talking about is Fishtown. Fishtown is a 136 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: working class, blue collar part of Philly. The name comes 137 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: from its early settlers, who were mainly fishermen that lived 138 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: in this tiny neighborhood along the Delaware River. Although it's 139 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: gentrified quite a bit since two thousand and five, it's 140 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: always maintained a rough around the edge's reputation. 141 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 7: From my point of view, Fishtown was a rough, violent place. 142 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 7: There's a long history of organized crime operating out of there. 143 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 7: Fishtown had families in it that would end you. 144 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: Robert Kerrey actually owned property in Fishtown, and people in 145 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: that neighborhood used to look at him almost like the Godfather, 146 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: where he was equally respected and feared. 147 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 7: There's a segment of people who knew him who were 148 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 7: perversely proud of what a fucking tough guy he was. 149 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: And according to Steve sources, Carrie was the hit man 150 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: who killed Danielle and Richard in Fishtown. 151 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 5: That case has closed. It's just taken as a given 152 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 5: that he did it. 153 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 7: I remember that being like a real hope of investigators 154 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 7: that like, so you're dealing with underworld types who take 155 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 7: some kind of money for higher gig and at some point, 156 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 7: I mean, one of them is going to talk, maybe 157 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 7: even to brag, because guys like that end up in 158 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 7: and out of jail. 159 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 5: And there were some rewards being offered. 160 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: At one point that reward was one hundred thousand dollars. 161 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 7: One of the most like, sort of unlikely crazy things 162 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 7: about this is that nobody's talked, nobody's bragged, nobody's spoken 163 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 7: about it. 164 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: And here's the thing about Fishtown, there's a sort of 165 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: unwritten rule about a code of silence. 166 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 7: You've got families who've known each other for generations. They 167 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 7: have formed these relationships, and there's a lot of loyalties there, 168 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 7: but like Carrie's dead. 169 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: Six months after Robert Carey took his own life in jail, 170 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: the police arrested twenty of Kerry's associates. According to the 171 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Attorney General, many of those arrested were allegedly involved 172 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: in Robert Carey's prescription drug operation and lived in Fishtown. 173 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 5: Those people haven't even talked. 174 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: It's pretty clear why Vedo said there were times in 175 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: this investigation. He wanted to beat his head against the wall. 176 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: Robert Carey's been dead nearly fifteen years, and no one 177 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: is talking. We learned that Lesson as well. The one 178 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: person who would talk to us on the record about 179 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: Robert Carey asked her remain anonymous. No one else would 180 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: go on the record. Steve said he even got pushed 181 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: back when he was doing research for his article. 182 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 7: I had asked around about him, and I got some 183 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 7: kind of email like warning me away, like don't ask 184 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 7: around about him. 185 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 5: This is fucking fish town. We love that guy. He's dead. 186 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 5: We don't speak ill of the fucking dead, So don't 187 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 5: come around here with that. 188 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: No matter where you look in this case, there's Joe Embo. 189 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: I mean, just look at the facts. In the year 190 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: leading up to his estranged wife's disappearance, Joe cheated on 191 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: Danielle and left her for that other woman. As their 192 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: marriage headed towards a divorce, Danielle started dating Richard Patron. 193 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: Joe found out and didn't like it. He wanted to 194 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: reconcile with Danielle, but Danielle wasn't ready to forgive and 195 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: forget Joe's Super Bowl affair in two thousand and four, 196 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: and that he left Danielle to raise their twenty month 197 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: old by herself when he moved to Georgia in two 198 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: thousand and five. Joe told the Philadelphia Daily News that 199 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: he even called Richard and told him to quote back 200 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: off and quote get out of the picture until after 201 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: their divorce. Shortly after the new year in two thousand 202 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: and five, Danielle ended things with Richard. Weeks passed, including 203 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: the Valentine's Day holiday, and then Richard called Danielle and 204 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: asked her to meet up on Saturday, February nineteenth, two 205 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: thousand and five. As you know, Danielle ultimately agreed and 206 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: they both vanished that night. Law enforcement has never charged Joe. 207 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: They've also never publicly cleared him, and that's what makes 208 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: things so frustrating, even for Joe. 209 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 7: One place where I sympathized with Joe is that he 210 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 7: knows everybody's looking at him the whole time with. 211 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: So little information. Journalist Steve Volk said law enforcement was 212 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: forced to examine and re examine what few facts they had. 213 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 7: Whenever you're dealing with a case where you don't know 214 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 7: in the end, so many different pieces of evidence could 215 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 7: be turned over different ways and look either evidence for 216 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 7: or against. 217 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: And depending on how you view them, that's where things 218 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: could look either good or bad for Joe. I mean, 219 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: just look at the night Danielle and Richard vanished. 220 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 7: His alibi was framed by the patrons as alarmingly convenient 221 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 7: that he happened to be with his stepdad, police officer 222 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 7: that night. 223 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: That night, Joe was with his relatives too, who happened 224 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: to be in law enforcement, and he stayed overnight in 225 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: Tom's River, New Jersey. Tom's River is just about an 226 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: hour drive from Danielle's condo, So I could see why 227 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: you could question Joe's alibi. And let's not forget Joe 228 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: admitted to listening to Danielle's voicemails. 229 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 7: If you are going to put your Joe Imbo had 230 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 7: nothing to do with his hat on and think in 231 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 7: those terms, wow, as he followed by the circumstances surrounding. 232 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: This, Think about that. Imagine you're in the following scenario, 233 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: your wife vanished, and you have this mountain of circumstantial 234 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,719 Speaker 1: evidence that can be flipped to look either for or 235 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: against you. Like Steve said in the last episode. 236 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 5: God that would be its own circle of. 237 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: Hell, and according to Joe, it was when he was 238 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: just thirty seven years. 239 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 5: Old heart attack. He connected the heart attack to just the. 240 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Stress, and according to Steve's article, all of it left 241 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: Joe quote a bitter, bitter man. 242 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 7: I don't think he hid from the idea that this 243 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 7: whole thing had taken a toll on him. 244 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: We had questions. We tried to sit with Joe. I 245 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: spoke with him twice by phone, but he didn't want 246 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: to be interviewed. Ben spoke to him a number of 247 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: times and ultimately met with him face to face in 248 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: South Carolina in June twenty twenty four. The two had 249 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: an off the record conversation at a small coffee shop 250 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: outside of Charles Stent. A few minutes after their meeting, Ben. 251 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 9: Called me Henika. He is very charming, very friendly, but 252 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 9: there's some pain in his face. 253 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: Ben said he and Joe talked for around an hour 254 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: and that his physical appearance reminded him of Kyle Chandler, 255 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: salt and pepper hair, the little bit of facial hair, 256 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: but outside of that, he felt like Joe was just 257 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: an ordinary fifty two year old guy. 258 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 10: The feeling is, you know, he is another person who 259 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 10: lost someone in all of this and is still grieving 260 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 10: and still wanting answers like the families. 261 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: Do right, Ben said, talking with Joe was just like 262 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: talking with most other people we've talked to for this podcast. 263 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 3: So how do you feel about it. 264 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 9: I'm struggling with the fact that he won't go on 265 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 9: the record and talk with me. 266 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: Do you think he did this? I was responsible for this. 267 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: Ben took a deep sigh and took a long pause. 268 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 11: You know, you're hopeful you're able to read them or 269 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 11: get some sort of tell or indication that, oh, there's 270 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 11: the smoking gun. 271 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 9: But I'm not coming back to you with that moment, Trey. 272 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 11: You spend a lot of time I am reading about 273 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 11: someone and about their life and about things that they've done. 274 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 11: I think you can build both expectations and perceptions in 275 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 11: your head. But sitting in front of him, he's just 276 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 11: an ordinary guy. 277 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: Honestly, we weren't expecting to hear from Joe again, But 278 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: on a Saturday afternoon in August twenty twenty four, almost 279 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: two months after Joe and Ben met for coffee, Ben 280 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: got a text message from Joe. I'll let Ben read it. 281 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 3: Ben, this is the only thing I would like to contribute. 282 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 3: If you choose to use it, please use it in 283 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 3: its entirety and not edited portions of it. I would 284 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: like to thank you and your team at iHeart for 285 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 3: keeping the disappearance of Danielle and Richard in the news. 286 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: Hopefully someone in your listening audience will know something and 287 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: come forward. The only thing I am guilty of is 288 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: being a shitty husband and making some poor decisions. I 289 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 3: live with the guilt of knowing I am the one 290 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 3: who put Danielle in the position where she was out 291 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: with Richard Patron that night. I've spent the last twenty 292 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: years raising our son to become someone I know Danielle 293 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 3: would be proud of. The last phone call I had 294 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: with Danielle was the afternoon she disappeared. She asked me 295 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: to go to the circus with her and our son. 296 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 3: Do you think I could wake up every morning and 297 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 3: look at my son if I did anything to his mother. 298 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 3: People who don't know me will have their doubts, and 299 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 3: I can't change that. The only thing that matters to 300 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 3: me is that Danielle's family knows I had nothing to 301 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: do with this. 302 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: At the beginning of this series. You heard how Danielle's 303 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: brother John got a tip. 304 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 12: Some psychic called my mother in law and said Danielle 305 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 12: was dying in its box car under the Walt Whitman Bridge. 306 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 12: So here I am scaling this fence at midnight with 307 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 12: a flashlight looking in box. 308 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: Course, that unsolicited lead from a psychic never let John 309 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: to Danielle, but it did give me an idea. Like 310 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: Steve said, we've turned over every scenario of possibilities in 311 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: our head. I felt like veto banging my head against 312 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: a wall. I just wanted direction. I thought, what is 313 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: there to lose? So I reached out to a medium, 314 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: and I must preface this by saying, skeptic inside me 315 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: debated whether we should even share this. But if this 316 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: idea turned out to be a total waste of time, 317 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: I would not be spending one second on what I'm 318 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: about to share with you. I got in touch with 319 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: Jonathan Mark, who isn't just your ordinary medium. Jonathan has 320 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: been helping law enforcement like the NYPD and FBI for 321 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: a few years now. 322 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 13: I'm their last option, and I'm never there first. 323 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: Jonathan's resume includes some high profile cases, including the Long 324 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: Island serial killer case. 325 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 13: And that's when the lead Task Forced agent called me 326 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 13: and he was like, you have fifteen minutes, let me 327 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 13: see what you got. Then from there I got inundated 328 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 13: with so many different law enforcement agencies to do these cases, 329 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 13: like over a thousand cases from all over the world. 330 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 13: People I think know me more from the Gabby Patito case. 331 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: Gabby Patito went missing while on a cross country trip 332 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: with her boyfriend in twenty twenty one. Her boyfriend later 333 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: admitted to killing Potito. Although Jonathan worked with law enforcement 334 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: on the case, he said he didn't necessarily solve anything. 335 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 13: I just helped him go into a certain direction and 336 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 13: they did their amazing law enforcement work and they put 337 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 13: the pieces together. 338 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: He even got tapped in to help with the case 339 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: of the four Idaho students who were murdered, but was 340 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: admittedly too freaked out by it all, so he turned 341 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: it down. Today, his waitlist contains roughly ten thousand names. 342 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: You can hear more about that on his podcast called 343 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: Connect with Jonathan Mark. Jonathan knew I wanted to meet 344 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: about a project was working on, but was given no 345 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: other information. To his credit, he invited me and Ben 346 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: to his home in New York. I should note this 347 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: was two months before the show launched, and I don't 348 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: even think he knew where we were from. 349 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 13: I always tell people it's a blessing and a gift 350 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 13: that I can do this and help people and use 351 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 13: it in different avenues. It occurs because you can't turn 352 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 13: it off. You're talking about death, and not just death. 353 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 13: You're dealing with people's emotions that these don't have answers for. 354 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 13: So it's really difficult and tough. 355 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to expect, but I didn't expect 356 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: a warm and friendly, lacrossebrow sporting a backwards hat and 357 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: workout clothes, a normal guy from your average Long Island family, 358 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: except for his ability to speak to those who have 359 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: crossed over. I was nervous. Ben was nervous. Jonathan was nervous. 360 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: He mentioned that he typically reads family members and was 361 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: unsure if we could reach anyone other than our loved ones. 362 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: But then he jumped right in, so. 363 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 13: You're cool with like the intensity of stuff, right, Like 364 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 13: that's what okay? So you have two people that are 365 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 13: coming through. Wow, this is kind of nuts. They're showing 366 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 13: my uncle. My uncle's name is Richard, but it's an 367 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 13: our name. They're show me my brother. My brother's name 368 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 13: is Daniel, but the female has a da name. I 369 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 13: see they both had families. It seems like by families, 370 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 13: I mean like children with different partners. 371 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: Jonathan stared at a blind wall that was to the 372 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: right of us. He said, he typically does this so 373 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: he can focus and not see our reactions. Ben and 374 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: I sat in complete silence and let him continue. 375 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 13: This has to be like a two decade or almost 376 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 13: a two decade case, because what's coming through to me 377 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 13: is there's little to no movement. And by that that 378 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 13: doesn't mean that law enforcement's not doing their thing. There's 379 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 13: just little to no evidence that continue. But what I 380 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 13: am seeing is that there has been some shifts, like recently, 381 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 13: like in the last like six months, there's been some 382 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 13: like shifts. Another thing too, there's a key component to 383 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 13: their case that's linked to a car that's like gone too, 384 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 13: whether it's a car or a minivan or a truck 385 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 13: or something. 386 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: Like I said, I didn't know what to expect, but 387 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: I definitely didn't expect Jonathan to be spot on. 388 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 13: There's shown me the color black in a car. That's 389 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 13: a key component of like an evidence, whether it's the 390 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 13: color black or just like a car. But they're also 391 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 13: showing me too that there's a body of water that 392 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 13: is like a huge key factor. 393 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: In May of twenty twenty four, we reached out to 394 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: Jonathan Mark, a medium who has helped the FBI and NYPD, 395 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: and he graciously agreed to talk with us. Just a 396 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: minute or two into our session, Ben and I were speechless. 397 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: Prior to this, Jonathan had never met me or my 398 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: colleague Ben. In fact, he didn't know anything about the 399 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: case or where we were from. And right off the bat, 400 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: Jonathan had clearly identified Richard and Danielle. And then came 401 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: someone else. 402 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 13: There's like a third person and they're putting music notes 403 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 13: and stuff in. They're just enjoying, like reuniting and things 404 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 13: like that. Who was a musician in their family. 405 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: That was the first moment I got chills. We told 406 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: Jonathan about Danielle's father and how he was a doo 407 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: wop singer. I didn't really know what to make of 408 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: it all, but the idea of Danielle reuniting with her 409 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: dad made me happy. 410 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 13: And then also to someone else, another family member. They 411 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 13: keep pointing at me, My name's Jonathan, but it's John 412 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 13: or something like the jo name they're pointing at me. 413 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: I was assuming John Danielle's brother. 414 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 13: Who is Marge or Margaret, Marge Margaret. 415 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: We told him that Marge is Richard's mother. 416 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 13: She's pretty ruthless with this, so like, I give her 417 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 13: a lot of credit, and she's a freaking warrior from 418 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 13: what I see. The last time they were seen from 419 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 13: my perspective, is at whether it's a restaurant, a bar, 420 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 13: a concert, or something we're drinking was involved. He's smiling 421 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 13: saying he had a few in his stomach, so he 422 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 13: was happy. 423 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: He is Richard. 424 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 13: It seems like before they passed they knew of each other, 425 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 13: because what they're showing to me is they feel complete 426 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 13: and whole at this moment together because they're saying it 427 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 13: was a separation to come together. But she keeps saying 428 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 13: there's a jealousy factor with someone like I don't know 429 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 13: what it is, but she keeps saying there's a jealousy 430 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 13: factor that was going on at the introim of their passing. 431 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 13: She keeps reiterating to me, you have to separate to 432 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 13: come together again. That's what you keep saying. There's a 433 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 13: separation to come together. 434 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: Again, separation to come together again. It was a phrase 435 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: Jonathan mentioned a few times. 436 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 13: So can I ask you guys, it's like one question. 437 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 13: Did they find nothing? Like not too much, because it's 438 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 13: the guy is smiling. He's like a big goose egg 439 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 13: right now. 440 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: Ben shared that there was no physical evidence. 441 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 13: It seems like the translation of when it happened to 442 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 13: when that both of them went missing was like a 443 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 13: snap of a finger. It's kind of like you wipe 444 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 13: your hands clean and that there's no crumbs of where 445 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 13: you ate anything. And what they're also kind of sharing 446 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 13: with me too with this is that there's a body 447 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 13: of water that is like a huge key factor to this. 448 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 13: So there's a body of water that's not too far 449 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 13: away and it's like a river or some type of 450 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 13: like stream or like a large body of work. But 451 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 13: it's not an ocean. It's one hundred percent not inn ocean. 452 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 13: It's like you can swim in it, but it's probably 453 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 13: not preferred to swim in it type of thing. Because 454 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 13: what he keeps saying is he's making a joke to me. 455 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 13: He's saying it's like now you see me, and now 456 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 13: you don't. It seems like they did look at a 457 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 13: body of order, whether it's a river or a lake, 458 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 13: a stream. They're in the wrong spot, like they're searching 459 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 13: in the wrong area, but it's not too far away 460 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 13: from it, if that makes sense. It's kind of like 461 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 13: if you're looking like upstream, but then there's a whole 462 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 13: downstream that emerges into like a lake. Kind of it's 463 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 13: going to be very difficult to find. From what he's saying, 464 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 13: it's like pretty close to like a state line where 465 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 13: it's twenty thirty minutes that's not far from where this happened. 466 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 13: Do you ever have a hit man or someone that 467 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 13: like a paid killer? I guess is the best way 468 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 13: from what I see with this. When someone puts pen 469 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 13: and paper in front of me, it typically means an 470 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 13: orchestrated type of passing. There is a suspect that I 471 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 13: think that they have. It's a suspect like in jail 472 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 13: already for something, or did they have like a rap sheet? 473 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 5: Do you know? 474 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: We weren't sure what to say. The person that came 475 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: to my mind was Robert Carrey, but we didn't share 476 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: that with Jonathan. 477 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 13: Like an orchestrated group of people that are not fantastic 478 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 13: citizens of society that come together. That's what I see 479 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 13: because I see it happened, and you can correct me 480 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 13: if I'm wrong. Like outside a bar, whether it's a bar, 481 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 13: restaurant or something, they're making a joke. It's like wrong place, 482 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 13: wrong time type of thing. It's like when you reconnect 483 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 13: and you're just going to have dinner or drinks or something, 484 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 13: and they're saying that like there's another our name that's 485 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 13: associated with his passing or associated around him. That seems 486 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 13: fairly intense to me, or like know something a little 487 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 13: bit more than anything. Everything that these horrible people did 488 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 13: to them with their plan was executed pretty perfectly because 489 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 13: they had eyes and ears everywhere. It's like the stars 490 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 13: aligned for these really shitty people. Because it also seems 491 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 13: like there was a a friend or a couple that 492 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 13: was with them or should have been with them, that 493 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 13: didn't come because they were circulating saying like thank god 494 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 13: no one else was like with them at that time. 495 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 13: It's not like what I normally would see. I would say, 496 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 13: because there's a lot of moving parts with these people. 497 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 13: They had help from outside conglomerates as like a group 498 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 13: to make sure each corner was covered and that the 499 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 13: case was shoved pushed down away for many, many many years. 500 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 13: Shining light on this case is going to be the 501 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 13: best thing because it's going to expose not only the 502 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 13: person who did it and the group who did it, 503 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 13: but people that were involved in it that should be 504 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 13: held accountable but also shouldn't have positions that they're in 505 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 13: or positions that they were in. My heart breaks for them, 506 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 13: like my heart breaks for them, just because when you're 507 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 13: battling up against very powerful, corrupt people, it's tough. What 508 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 13: Richard is trying to explain to me is like any 509 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 13: help is good help. And he's saying that anytime someone 510 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 13: gets close, someone's hands gets like chopped, cut, like handcuffed whatever. 511 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 13: He's smiling saying, like f that, like let's go in 512 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 13: all different corners, like let's hit different spots that people 513 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 13: weren't even originally thinking. It's the corruption side that is 514 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 13: like the most important to them. The corruption will lead 515 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 13: to the answer to their passing. It's kind of like 516 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 13: this person has this person's back, who has this person's back. 517 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 13: He's saying, like there's dots that connect, but it always 518 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 13: circles back to like a circle, and it's like everyone's 519 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 13: kind of like protecting their circle is what he keeps saying. 520 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 13: But I think anyone that's like investigating this cases up 521 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 13: against it's like a lot of times people don't want 522 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 13: to turn on their own people, Like that's what I've learned, 523 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 13: Like people don't want to turn on their own people. 524 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 13: And he's saying, like, that's what will have to happen. 525 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: What I find so interesting is that he kept saying corruption, 526 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: you tackle the corruption, everything else comes together. 527 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 3: So for the skeptics out there who are like, you know, 528 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 3: Jonathan did his diligence. 529 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: It's never been reported on. It's something that's been coming 530 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: up in our investigation. 531 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: This is not a part of the story that he 532 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 3: would have come across on a Google search about this 533 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 3: case to compile information to share with us. 534 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: Right, And we hadn't even talked about everything that you 535 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: had been independently researching and investigating until that very morning 536 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: on the way to him. 537 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 3: I think I had conducted three interviews leading into our 538 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: trip on Friday up to Jonathan that first uncovered this 539 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: idea that there was a larger corruption story that could 540 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 3: be tied to Richard and Danielle's story, and. 541 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: Just meeting with him validated a direction that we had 542 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: already wanted to go in. I think we know where 543 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: we need to spend our time. That's next time on 544 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: there and Gone South Street. If you have any information 545 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: about the disappearance of Danielle Limbo and Richard Petrone, please 546 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: call the Citizens Crime Commission tip Line at two one 547 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: five five four six eight four seven seven, or contact 548 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: the Therein Gone team at thereingnepod at gmail dot com. 549 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: That's Therein Gonepod at gmail dot com. We're grateful for 550 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: your support. One way to show support is by subscribing 551 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: to our show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to 552 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: rate and review Therein Gone. Five star reviews go a 553 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. 554 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: Thereon Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division 555 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The 556 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Ben Feennerman, 557 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: hosted and written by me Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting 558 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: and writing by Ben Fetterman. The series is also written 559 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: and produced by Todd Gans. 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