Speaker 1: My name is Phyllis Smith, and I played Phillis Lap
Speaker 1: and Vance. Hello everybody, and welcome back, one and all
Speaker 1: to the Office Deep Dive. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: and I am so excited to present to you my
Speaker 1: interview with Phyllis Smith and guys. This episode is truly
Speaker 1: one of my favorites ever, not only because Phillis is
Speaker 1: obviously wonderful, but because I finally finally got to have
Speaker 1: my Oprah moment. Now here's what happened. As some of
Speaker 1: you may know, Phillis did not start out as an actor. No,
Speaker 1: Phillis was actually Alison's casting associate on the Office, but
Speaker 1: she was just so perfect that Greg Daniels and Ken
Speaker 1: Koppa decided to cast her, and obviously she went on
Speaker 1: to be an incredible part of our ensemble. So Phillis
Speaker 1: and Allison had worked together many years, become very very
Speaker 1: close friends. But they don't get to see each other
Speaker 1: very often these days. So when I was going to
Speaker 1: be interviewing Phillis, I said to Alison, Hey, Alison, why
Speaker 1: don't you come in. You guys can talk about casting,
Speaker 1: and then I can talk with Phillis about you know,
Speaker 1: her progression through the show. And but let's surprise her.
Speaker 1: Don't tell Phillis that you're going to be there, and
Speaker 1: as you will hear right now. It was just the
Speaker 1: best moment. So um oh, I'm so excited. Let's roll
Speaker 1: the tape. Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble and
Speaker 1: Squeak and Bubble and Squeaker Cookie every month, lift over
Speaker 1: from the night before. I'm so excited for Phillis to
Speaker 1: come in and see you. She's out there. She just
Speaker 1: doesn't know that you're here. Are we good? Okay, she's
Speaker 1: gonna walk through that door. I love this, skinny Phillis.
Speaker 1: What's the surprised? How are you so good to see you? Oh?
Speaker 1: My goodness, ill Hello, asked her? Most everything? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: ask her. So I just this is just to tell
Speaker 1: you what's going on. So I had my thing. I've
Speaker 1: interviewed Allison, We've talked about casting the entire show. But
Speaker 1: I said to her, let's let's leave off Phillis, because
Speaker 1: I wanted you to come in and you guys to
Speaker 1: be able to have a conversation together. So how when
Speaker 1: did you guys meet? Oh? God, okay, the first pilot
Speaker 1: we worked on together was called was at those offices
Speaker 1: across from Universal, and we cast James Franco and Ben
Speaker 1: Foster in a really bad sitcom. We were in the trailer. Oh,
Speaker 1: we were in the trailer that we were in the
Speaker 1: trailer first on NBC's lot, that's right, And that was
Speaker 1: um because Jessica Walter screamed at her agent for sending
Speaker 1: her to the wrong place and we were like hiding
Speaker 1: behind at the desk like, oh my god, We're like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Um? But yeah, it was an in
Speaker 1: terrible trailer and it was during like El Nino, and
Speaker 1: our trailer everything was soaked. Everything was soaked. They had
Speaker 1: terrible rain that re leaks. And from my point of view,
Speaker 1: I had been working with Alan Hackford and the day
Speaker 1: that was my last day with him on we went
Speaker 1: across the hall to say goodbye, and that when um
Speaker 1: whose office? They said, oh, Allison John Yeah? And I said,
Speaker 1: do you know if anybody's looking for a casting and
Speaker 1: associate and they said, oh, yeah, Allison Jones to it.
Speaker 1: And so then I contacted you and then I had
Speaker 1: an interview on Monday, and you started me on Wednesday, Yes, right,
Speaker 1: right right? And I remember Steve Jacobs was another casting director,
Speaker 1: said if you want someone to whip you into shape
Speaker 1: higher this gal nod he what so what years? Probably
Speaker 1: because then we went on to do some like Freaks
Speaker 1: and Geeks. We did other Yeah, but before that we
Speaker 1: did Roswell, which was lacious. We call our we called
Speaker 1: at the lowest point of both of our lives. It
Speaker 1: was just delicious because it was for a network that
Speaker 1: needed beautiful people. I told you that's where Heath Ledger
Speaker 1: wasn't good looking enough for Fox right and Ian Summer
Speaker 1: remember Ian Summer Holder yelled at me because yes, we
Speaker 1: were shocked. You got yelled at for reading too fast
Speaker 1: with the actor in the room, and I felt terrible,
Speaker 1: but yeah, he yelled at me right after they so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never done that. Yeah, I should try that. The
Speaker 1: job not like traumatized me. So I tried to slow
Speaker 1: it down after that. So you worked together from through
Speaker 1: two thousand three the whole time. Still worked through the
Speaker 1: first episodes of the Office. Didn't work till the mid
Speaker 1: second season, right, because you guys weren't getting paid anything, right,
Speaker 1: and I we didn't know if we were getting a
Speaker 1: pickup r Yeah, So I remained in casting Kate remained
Speaker 1: working in the restaurant. Yeah, so we all just held on.
Speaker 1: So what did you What did you do in casting
Speaker 1: for like, were you primarily reading or were you I um,
Speaker 1: Alison would give me her ideas and we'd go through.
Speaker 1: At that time and casting we used to get real
Speaker 1: pictures and resumes were stacked full, so I had to
Speaker 1: separate all those in two different you know, and whatever
Speaker 1: Allison wanted me to do, I did it and set
Speaker 1: up the appointments. Make sure. Trying to confirm actors. You
Speaker 1: were a tough one though, because you would say, you
Speaker 1: have to call me back and confirm that the confirmation
Speaker 1: is actually real. Yeah, not just I remember that one
Speaker 1: time we had that one kid that we had given
Speaker 1: out an appointment and it was for um, a bad movie.
Speaker 1: It was a movie that did and it was with
Speaker 1: Creative or you so big agency. I don't remember the agency.
Speaker 1: But he I had given out all the appointments, waited
Speaker 1: approximately a week or so to confirm. Finally I hadn't
Speaker 1: heard anything. So I called and he still hadn't given
Speaker 1: the appointments out and the session was like, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of days away. So what I did is
Speaker 1: I proceeded to call the managers of everybody, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, this kid calls me and he goes,
Speaker 1: what do you think you're doing? And uh, I said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm doing the work that you should have been doing. Yes,
Speaker 1: And he goes, how dare you? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know what, let me tell you something I said.
Speaker 1: When I call you, you say hello, because he was
Speaker 1: so be fuddled. When I give you the information, you
Speaker 1: call me back with a confirmation, and when we go
Speaker 1: to hang up, you say goodbye. You just don't drop
Speaker 1: the phone. And you remember I was yelling at this point.
Speaker 1: I came around at Allison, standing this, because who are
Speaker 1: you talking to you? Um? So you did casting for
Speaker 1: nineteen years? Yes? Is that right? Approximately? So someone found
Speaker 1: this quote that you said for nineteen years. That's what
Speaker 1: I did. I examined the character, the truth of it,
Speaker 1: and I think that I didn't know it at the time,
Speaker 1: but I was learning. I don't remember saying that. Does
Speaker 1: that sound right? Well? What I have said in various
Speaker 1: interviews is that I was probably honing a craft that
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was honing. I was never in
Speaker 1: the forefront of my mind, and I can honestly say,
Speaker 1: I never thought that I would be an actor. You know.
Speaker 1: It was never something I went, Oh, I wonder if
Speaker 1: there's a role for me. At one point I was
Speaker 1: trying to get into commercials and and like acting commercials,
Speaker 1: and then life changed and I ended up. Well, you
Speaker 1: know how I got into casting, right? Do you know
Speaker 1: that HOWE into casting? I don't know that. Well. I
Speaker 1: was working as a receptionist in an aerospace defense company
Speaker 1: in Sherman Oaks. A friend of mine called, who had
Speaker 1: worked for Stuart Stu Billet Productions on a court show
Speaker 1: and they said, phillis they need a mousey woman for
Speaker 1: a court show? And I said, oh, man, I didn't
Speaker 1: want to. I wasn't actively auditioning or going out. I
Speaker 1: was being a receptionist and I had one hour for lunch.
Speaker 1: I had to go over the hill to do this audition,
Speaker 1: and in process. At this time, this was the olden days,
Speaker 1: we wore nylons and I went to the bathroom and
Speaker 1: as I was pulling them up, I ripped a huge
Speaker 1: hole night my entire knee was out of my my
Speaker 1: n So I walked into the audition and I said,
Speaker 1: excuse me, are you looking for mousey or lifted up
Speaker 1: my skirt or tacky, and so we ended up in
Speaker 1: a conversation and and I wasn't mousey enough to be
Speaker 1: a mousey woman. Shocking. But in the course of the conversation,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I think I might be good
Speaker 1: in casting. And about a year later she called me,
Speaker 1: and that's how I ended up. And I was at
Speaker 1: the lowest. I mean, I had to do everything, everything
Speaker 1: that nobody else wanted to do. I was there doing
Speaker 1: what it was this like three hundred a week or
Speaker 1: my first job was two d fifty bucks a week
Speaker 1: and I was thrilled, but it would have been about
Speaker 1: three what would yours have been probably in late eighties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was a little bit earlier, but two and
Speaker 1: fifty bucks a week was huge. Yea. So that's how
Speaker 1: I ended up in the casting and then it just
Speaker 1: now it's a thing people want to do. Shockingly, we
Speaker 1: just sort of ended up in it. Um, did you
Speaker 1: feel the casting process of of casting The Office was
Speaker 1: was different than any other show that you had done before.
Speaker 1: I think it was because the the material was so
Speaker 1: different from the other the other shows. It was a
Speaker 1: give and take and it was then Joe, you know,
Speaker 1: and this was completely a different style. Would say, if
Speaker 1: you think you're doing too little, you're still doing too much, right,
Speaker 1: because we had every direction to give everybody, everybody pull
Speaker 1: it down. Yeah, I have the original audition I have
Speaker 1: for stand uh Leslie in my office. I left the
Speaker 1: camera running by mistake, and it shows me explaining the
Speaker 1: genre of the show and how it's going to be
Speaker 1: a fake documentary. And I think you walked by in
Speaker 1: the background, by the way, and I'm you know, just
Speaker 1: saying and there's poor poor Leslie going m h. And
Speaker 1: I was just kept repeating, it's less is more, it's
Speaker 1: it has to feel like it's a documentary like in
Speaker 1: the British show. Blah blah blah blah. But that was
Speaker 1: what we stressed. Was there anyone? Was there someone that
Speaker 1: you remember fighting for that was cast or wasn't cast?
Speaker 1: Better you were in the rooms because you were reading
Speaker 1: with these actors, so you you had a better feel
Speaker 1: for it. But you read with them. I read them
Speaker 1: with them until Ken Koppus came up to me and said,
Speaker 1: could you let Phillis read because I think she'd be
Speaker 1: good in the show. I didn't know any of them
Speaker 1: saying the same thing. I mean, she got it because
Speaker 1: Ken thought she was good. But he she said, let
Speaker 1: Phillis read. Oh my god, that's a great idea. Um.
Speaker 1: So Phillis then went in and started reading with all
Speaker 1: the actors and she was remember being scared. Though I'm
Speaker 1: sure you were scared because I didn't want to screw
Speaker 1: it up. I didn't know he was auditioning. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was frightened because I wanted to do a
Speaker 1: good job for the actors. And I read with Rain
Speaker 1: and then another time I read with Kruzinski, and I
Speaker 1: remember when when I read with him, I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: that's that's the one. It just felt right. I remember
Speaker 1: remember John sitting out in the reception area and he
Speaker 1: had you had put him on tape, like the first
Speaker 1: day he was put on tape in New York. I
Speaker 1: remember we had the same man's Jake cru sweater on.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, oh, I hope he doesn't notice this
Speaker 1: was brown, mind was green, so funny. Yeah, well, they
Speaker 1: were all sitting there and then the second day he
Speaker 1: didn't get called back either way, and he just was
Speaker 1: like very nervous. And he later had told me he
Speaker 1: thought it was because he didn't do well the first day,
Speaker 1: and in reality it was the reverse that I think
Speaker 1: he had already already made an impression. And and and
Speaker 1: I remember BJ sitting out there just he looked like
Speaker 1: he was petrified. Yeah he I don't I didn't know him.
Speaker 1: I didn't know his personality, you know. Now that's just
Speaker 1: the way he looks, I know, But at the time
Speaker 1: he looked like and he didn't engage with people, he
Speaker 1: didn't talk or what's got put him? You know? But
Speaker 1: then I realized that was part of his My big
Speaker 1: fear in all the casting situations when you mix and matches,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how bad are they going to feel
Speaker 1: if they don't get called back in? I hate that.
Speaker 1: And then Steve, Steve came in day two because he
Speaker 1: because he was still whatever it was, he was still
Speaker 1: hooked into the other NBC shows, they let him come
Speaker 1: in on the second day. What was your impression of Steve?
Speaker 1: I thought he was brilliant, you know, right off I
Speaker 1: told him that I was for me, it was a
Speaker 1: toss up because Odin Kirk was so cool. And so
Speaker 1: then you said that when I was watching the tape
Speaker 1: of Steve, who was the other guy that well, there
Speaker 1: was there was also Paul if Tompkins and really good
Speaker 1: people that were testing. But it came down to between
Speaker 1: oden Kirk and Carroll. But it would have been a
Speaker 1: different It would have been a different different Michael with
Speaker 1: oden Kirk. But you had said to me that when
Speaker 1: I was watching the monitor watching Steve's test, and I
Speaker 1: was doubled over with laughter, and Gregg noticed that, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you always thought that was because you yes, you're having
Speaker 1: a hard time keeping it. Oh my god, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. What um, So you knew way before that
Speaker 1: they were considering that that Ken was considering Phillis. Oh no,
Speaker 1: like an hour before we were reading that day and said,
Speaker 1: could you just switch you do the camera? You do
Speaker 1: this lit Phillis reach And I was at the coffee
Speaker 1: trying to make sure everything was at the coffee and
Speaker 1: Kim came up and he said, Phillis, someone should read
Speaker 1: the character of Pam today and I went okay. So
Speaker 1: I thought, well, maybe one of the PAMs is going
Speaker 1: to be late or I didn't know the why. And
Speaker 1: then I was nervous because I didn't know that you knew,
Speaker 1: and I was like concerned that I was going to
Speaker 1: be doing something out of line for my job, you know,
Speaker 1: So you knew all of that, and no one really
Speaker 1: ever came to me. Wardrobe was actually the first one
Speaker 1: who called and said, I understand you're playing the character
Speaker 1: of Phillis, and I went, yes, I am. Um. So
Speaker 1: you didn't get to tell her, not for years. No, no,
Speaker 1: but you didn't. You didn't get to tell her that
Speaker 1: she had been cast. I guess Wardrobe to I was
Speaker 1: in on it and didn't tell her. Do you remember
Speaker 1: the day that you came in, Yes, to our office, No,
Speaker 1: to the producers session. We were over where we where
Speaker 1: we shot the first Yeah, and um we had to
Speaker 1: go from to get the actors. We had to go
Speaker 1: about a block and a half within the building to
Speaker 1: bring him back to the little where we were recording.
Speaker 1: And so as a result, the session we were ran.
Speaker 1: She ran the sessions on time. You didn't sit when
Speaker 1: you went to Allison's. Yeah, you you went in. But
Speaker 1: for some reason that day we were behind. We were
Speaker 1: really behind. And I remember Leslie had another audition to
Speaker 1: go to, so we said, go ahead, go to your
Speaker 1: audition and come back. So he went to his audition.
Speaker 1: He came back. He fought the traffic and he was
Speaker 1: in a real premid when he came in and must have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you remember when Greg jumped out the windows. Ex
Speaker 1: was gonna say to you in a casting session, just
Speaker 1: West Perkins was there and she yeah, we were. Was
Speaker 1: it at the beginning before the lunch hour or it was,
Speaker 1: but it was we were had all had to sit
Speaker 1: at a conference table in that the room that you
Speaker 1: didn't have to go into when you read you didn't see,
Speaker 1: but that's where we cast everybody else. And now there
Speaker 1: was and all of a sudden, Greg just gets up
Speaker 1: and jumps out this window, opened the window and jumped
Speaker 1: out the window, and unfortunately the window was close to
Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah. And then Nancy Perkins, in a thick
Speaker 1: Boston accent, said said, oh my god, I've heard of
Speaker 1: produces wanting to jump out the window before, but he
Speaker 1: just did it. Yeah, we all just looked. He had
Speaker 1: to get a sweater in his car something. I don't
Speaker 1: know why he did it, but it was funny. We
Speaker 1: just looked at each other. He also used to graph
Speaker 1: the qualities of actors. Um he had a graph and
Speaker 1: he would like put what he needed and what he saw,
Speaker 1: and he would literally graph the qualities of actors. He
Speaker 1: has a I may have that he had a very
Speaker 1: scientific mind, uh when it came to things like that,
Speaker 1: and that of course drove me nuts. But he would
Speaker 1: always say that he was less instinct and more thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about it. Who would you put with this?
Speaker 1: And who would you who would go with that? If
Speaker 1: you had these two people, who would be this person?
Speaker 1: He thought about it very carefully and it certainly worked
Speaker 1: on the office. But jumping out the window, you and
Speaker 1: I were very fancy. She was, oh my god, he
Speaker 1: jumped out the window. And now we know that's kind
Speaker 1: of normal, but it was terrific. Produces one to jump
Speaker 1: out the window before. But well, I, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: of you talking about that on the casting side, because
Speaker 1: what we've been told by some of the writers was
Speaker 1: one of the exercises that they did. They called them
Speaker 1: unlikely duos or something like that, and everyone's name would
Speaker 1: be on the wall, right, so Kevin and Phillis and
Speaker 1: Michael and Dwight and and one of their exercises was
Speaker 1: take two characters that you wouldn't put together, and let's
Speaker 1: put them together and then have some story about that interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's interesting on from the casting perspective, from the beginning,
Speaker 1: wanting to he does that's at least how he did
Speaker 1: it with the office. Yeah, he would ask everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: would you rather have this person or this person? And
Speaker 1: then if you have this person, would you have have
Speaker 1: this person or this person? But he was a very
Speaker 1: um pensive and thoughtful person that way. And those are
Speaker 1: the like the people that we've had the privileged to
Speaker 1: work for, Mitch Herwitz and Judd Apatow and Paul Feige.
Speaker 1: They do think about things in a different way to
Speaker 1: make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
Speaker 1: They all have strange ways and interesting ways of thinking.
Speaker 1: I call it comedy. Aspergers, Sorry, yea, he was great.
Speaker 1: Why do you think the two of you worked so
Speaker 1: well together? Kind of laid back and we enjoyed it, right,
Speaker 1: We had a lot of laughs. And I truly I'm
Speaker 1: not just saying this because she's sitting here. She can
Speaker 1: remember every actor that not only opened their mouth to her,
Speaker 1: but walked and you know, just walk through the room
Speaker 1: she has and she was never afraid to go out
Speaker 1: and find new talent. She just had an eye she
Speaker 1: had an eye for somebody that was unique and different,
Speaker 1: and so did you though I just a little anecdote.
Speaker 1: We cast a show called spin City when it was
Speaker 1: it was a spin City or Battery Park that you
Speaker 1: meant to go sitting. When she was six, We're at
Speaker 1: Radford and Phillis was reading kids for a one line
Speaker 1: role on a Christmas episode or something, and Phillis said, Allison,
Speaker 1: I read this girl, but come on in and we'll
Speaker 1: read her again, because you've never seen anything like this.
Speaker 1: And it was six year old Da Code of Fanning
Speaker 1: reading one line about being an orphan or something, and
Speaker 1: Phillis literally was like, I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1: She was wondering. She was amazing. So Dakoda Fanning and
Speaker 1: Childa both go down for me as the best child
Speaker 1: actors I've ever seen. Wow. Um, when you guys walked
Speaker 1: in and you saw each other, what is it about
Speaker 1: the history between you two that I feel so special?
Speaker 1: We just love you. We just love each other. And
Speaker 1: she's hilarious and we had a lot of good laughs.
Speaker 1: We did. We yeah, a lot of good Yeah. We
Speaker 1: enjoyed it and love actors and basically a great just
Speaker 1: a great like ultimately, who cares, So let's just have fun. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: she's a dear person and we worked together for a
Speaker 1: long time and she always knew my sisters and stuff,
Speaker 1: my brothers. Yeah. Yeah, when we come back, we're gonna
Speaker 1: kick Alison out, and Phillis and I we're gonna sit
Speaker 1: down for a chat together. Hi. Phil Hi can that's
Speaker 1: what you've been in my life for so long? Bri?
Speaker 1: I know, well, um, yeah, so we sort of talked
Speaker 1: about Um. I think it's fascinating that you were casting
Speaker 1: all of these shows and never had a thought. I truly,
Speaker 1: I can honestly say that that was not I thought
Speaker 1: that ship had sailed and so, um, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just meant to be, and it's changed my life completely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: completely in a good way. You know. Did you have
Speaker 1: any training? No? No, I I'm Alan Hockberg, who I
Speaker 1: worked for on Dr Quinn Medicine Woman. I worked with
Speaker 1: him for about six years, six or seven years, and
Speaker 1: he actually taught me how to hold the parricides and
Speaker 1: read with an actor, and and so he was instrumental
Speaker 1: in helping me to learn how to read with an
Speaker 1: actor and treat an actor and and then when Alison,
Speaker 1: she was another person who really a lot of casting
Speaker 1: directors did not get involved when they read with actors,
Speaker 1: as you know, but Allison really gave her all when
Speaker 1: she read with people. So again being in the room
Speaker 1: and watching her interact with the actor and watching the
Speaker 1: actors um it just I don't know, Well, it's it's
Speaker 1: funny because I've heard of people. I never did this,
Speaker 1: but I've heard of actors who will find an in
Speaker 1: with a casting director to be the person who reads
Speaker 1: with Yeah. There used to happen all the time, right,
Speaker 1: because they wanted to see, you know, actors performances and
Speaker 1: be privy to the conversations about why that person got
Speaker 1: cast and that person got cast. It always seemed like
Speaker 1: kind of a smart thing, you know, to be able
Speaker 1: to go in and hear what people were talking about
Speaker 1: or what they were responding to, or you as an
Speaker 1: actor learning tips from that. And it's so fascinating that
Speaker 1: you were doing that for nineteen years but I didn't.
Speaker 1: But you weren't even trying it just it just came in, right.
Speaker 1: It wasn't. My job at that time was to do
Speaker 1: the best that I could for the actor to get
Speaker 1: the job. Are to cipher out who shouldn't be there
Speaker 1: and who should be there, you know, but it turned
Speaker 1: out okay, okay, um, so you got a call from wardrobe.
Speaker 1: So at this point you have no idea. I just
Speaker 1: thought it was odd that day that Ken came to me.
Speaker 1: I really felt nervous because I didn't want to step
Speaker 1: on Allison's toes um. I think there was a fact
Speaker 1: that came through the head the character of phyllis there,
Speaker 1: but we didn't. I didn't want to even believe that
Speaker 1: it was going to be a possibility. And as soon
Speaker 1: as wardrobe calls, then I because nobody ever came human,
Speaker 1: said hey, do you want to be in the show?
Speaker 1: Do you never really auditioned? No, I guess I auditioned,
Speaker 1: but didn't know I was auditioning, which is another thank you,
Speaker 1: because I would have been completely if I was nervous
Speaker 1: enough wanting to do a good job for the people
Speaker 1: I was reading with, had I known he was actually
Speaker 1: watching me. But you know what, they did use a
Speaker 1: tape of my reading at the network. One of the
Speaker 1: tapes that they presented I was reading was someone so
Speaker 1: it was covered in the long run, But I didn't
Speaker 1: know any of that at the time. That is so amazing.
Speaker 1: I think that is like the best story ever. I
Speaker 1: think some actors think, you know, not our group of people.
Speaker 1: But I run across other people sometime and they if
Speaker 1: they hear this story, they go, oh, you know, they're
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit like, well, look I studied it,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and so they're not too thrilled with it. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to what you know, the producers
Speaker 1: and and Greg and Ben and and and and Ricky
Speaker 1: and Stephen were looking for in in this that they
Speaker 1: were really looking for normal people or people not known
Speaker 1: faces in any way, shape or form, and just people
Speaker 1: that go to an office. You know. Yeah, um, I
Speaker 1: think that potentially Phyllis and Kevin were the butt of
Speaker 1: a lot of jokes. We were, We were definitely the
Speaker 1: butt of a lot of maybe not all, but a lot. Um.
Speaker 1: Did you did I take a fence to that or anything?
Speaker 1: You know? Uh? I have to say though, when they
Speaker 1: wanted me to carry Angela on my back in the
Speaker 1: finale that I thought, Okay, that's a little much. First
Speaker 1: of all, physically, I'm not wasn't sure how it was
Speaker 1: going to play out, But then they took care of
Speaker 1: it and at all, you know, with with the stunts
Speaker 1: and boards and stuff like that. And then I actually
Speaker 1: carried her like once or twice down the aisle, but
Speaker 1: but that was just a tinge to my feeling. Well
Speaker 1: that's a little bit over there. Yeah, I certainly had
Speaker 1: some of those things as well. I think that my
Speaker 1: I was told at some point, I think it was
Speaker 1: it was either season seven or season eight. We were
Speaker 1: talking about going forward without Steve, and I was talking
Speaker 1: to some of the higher ups and they said, well,
Speaker 1: we can't lose Kevin because now that Michael's gone, we
Speaker 1: have nobody else to do really really stupid things. So
Speaker 1: like that's what they were, because I started doing a
Speaker 1: ton of the physical stuff to it. There was oil
Speaker 1: in the warehouse and slipping around and doing all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I remember and like rain on my back on
Speaker 1: the filing cabinet, like giving me a massage. And there
Speaker 1: were a few times I went to them and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, guys, I am not a cartoon character.
Speaker 1: There are physical limitations to what I can do, so
Speaker 1: you can't just write anything. They go, oh, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: he can do that, of course. Yeah. I was always
Speaker 1: grateful to get a line. That would be like that.
Speaker 1: You know, you get a script and you start thumbing
Speaker 1: through it as say, oh wow, I've got three four.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was. I was grateful to get a line.
Speaker 1: Did you communicate much with the writers about I never did.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was had. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: that if that was permissible. I hadn't been in those
Speaker 1: shoes before as an as an actor. So whatever they
Speaker 1: gave me, I I was glad I got. You know,
Speaker 1: I was more unhappy when I didn't get something than
Speaker 1: than what I did get. Right. Do you feel like
Speaker 1: there were things specific to you that influenced the character
Speaker 1: of Phyllis? Um? Golly, I think well with my per
Speaker 1: so now I sometimes like off, can I can be sarcastic,
Speaker 1: you know, in a sweet way, And so I must
Speaker 1: have done that to somebody somewhere along the line and
Speaker 1: they kind of picked up on it. Um I was.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I never Are these the questions I
Speaker 1: should be asking when I have a character. No, I
Speaker 1: mean I think, I mean, as it creating a character,
Speaker 1: this is no. I think it's more you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering because I don't know, the answer is
Speaker 1: like did you have you know, whether you saw something
Speaker 1: in yourself that sort of came through. I just tried
Speaker 1: to do it from my gut because I didn't have
Speaker 1: anything else to work from. So if I got the line,
Speaker 1: I would try to deliver it a couple of different
Speaker 1: ways with a different feeling. And um, I, like I said,
Speaker 1: I never really thought of like a backstory for Phyllis.
Speaker 1: I never had that knowledge to do that are the
Speaker 1: tools to do that. I just went from my gut
Speaker 1: and she just and however people perceived her, then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, that's what she'd be given. And like
Speaker 1: I always loved my interactions with Michael because we were
Speaker 1: so competitive in high school and you know, right, But
Speaker 1: then I think another significant would be Angela. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a perfect you know the fact that I
Speaker 1: was so much larger than she was, but she tried
Speaker 1: to rule me. Uh and I completely what is the word? Yeah,
Speaker 1: We asked to to what she wanted until I got
Speaker 1: to the point that I couldn't stand her, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's kind of way I do in life. I take, take, take,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden I'd blow up so
Speaker 1: so so it is like, yes, it is like, yeah, look,
Speaker 1: it took all that time to get to that point. Um.
Speaker 1: But luckily for Phillis you walked in on Angela and Twite.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yes, which shifted the whole balance of power.
Speaker 1: I I was the one in in charge then all right, right,
Speaker 1: that must have been fun. Was the best, Like when
Speaker 1: I swooped everything off the desk that was in Nobody
Speaker 1: told me to do that, I just did it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the arc of Angela being the my nemesis
Speaker 1: to my becoming her nemesis. Right right. I didn't think
Speaker 1: about it like that before. About right, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Do you have any favorite episodes? There's so many though
Speaker 1: that I mean, there's moments I think I've talked about
Speaker 1: one before where Dwighton and Michael they bumped chest and
Speaker 1: they go, we did it, and then they go, what
Speaker 1: we do? I don't know. It's just a stupid little
Speaker 1: but it kind of like encapsulates the the whole feeling
Speaker 1: of the office is like they're doing something and then
Speaker 1: what we do? You know, m favorite episodes that I've
Speaker 1: you know, when of course my wedding and I love
Speaker 1: the scene that you and I did together when I
Speaker 1: was in charge of trying and you came in you
Speaker 1: wanted money. That was really one of the first scenes
Speaker 1: that I ever had one on one with you, and
Speaker 1: it felt really real. I enjoyed iron I think I
Speaker 1: said something to you that day after the scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, whoever we were paired off with on that
Speaker 1: particular day or episode or whatever, it was generally exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: A good A good deal. I love the episode where
Speaker 1: Dwight kind of I hurt my back at the disco
Speaker 1: and he takes and treats me as if I'm a
Speaker 1: farm animal. Do you remember not I mean, not necessarily
Speaker 1: where you were or what, but hearing that that Steve
Speaker 1: was going to leave, Oh man, that was the It
Speaker 1: was like somebody punched you in the stomach, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: I remember just being very sad about it, right because
Speaker 1: I I liked him so much as a person, I
Speaker 1: respected him so much as an actor. I I thought
Speaker 1: he had brought so much heart to the to the office,
Speaker 1: to the show, and I was really nervous about how
Speaker 1: that void was going to be filled, not only, you know,
Speaker 1: as his acting abilities, but also as a He was
Speaker 1: just a good guy. Yeah, I remember feeling way more
Speaker 1: emotional about him leaving than even the end of the show, really,
Speaker 1: I think because I felt like, you know, like a
Speaker 1: kid when mom and dad leaves or something. It's like, well, now,
Speaker 1: now what. And there's actually one of the I think
Speaker 1: one of my personal favorite lines was when he proposed
Speaker 1: it to Holly and the rains coming down and we're
Speaker 1: getting soaked by all the sprinklers and he says we're
Speaker 1: going to Colorado, and Kevin says all of us, And
Speaker 1: there was just something so sort of beautiful about that,
Speaker 1: and then the realization that no, no, no, he was
Speaker 1: he was leaving. Yeah. You know when you you talked
Speaker 1: about when the show ended in after the ninth season,
Speaker 1: that was a tough tough night, especially when Creed started singing.
Speaker 1: But for me, it was really tough, like months later
Speaker 1: after the show had ended and we generally would go
Speaker 1: back to work around July or August, that's when it
Speaker 1: set in that, oh, this is life's different now, you know,
Speaker 1: we're not going back. Yeah. When I sat down with
Speaker 1: Greg before that last season or moving into the finale
Speaker 1: and we started talking about, you know, my life's journey
Speaker 1: that point through the office and Kevin, and my experience
Speaker 1: was um people feeling like they knew me and specifically
Speaker 1: feeling like I was the guy that they wanted to
Speaker 1: get a drink with, and I would. I said something
Speaker 1: to him like Greg, I can't go into a bar
Speaker 1: without getting bought multiple drinks. Like they just come to
Speaker 1: the point I say, and I'm good, No, thank you, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good. Now, I gotta I gotta stop now. Guys,
Speaker 1: at least people that call you Kevin you know that
Speaker 1: they know you from this show. You me when people
Speaker 1: say Phyllis, I have to think for a moment, Okay,
Speaker 1: do I have our paths crossed? For a moment, do
Speaker 1: I know you? Or But in reality I do know
Speaker 1: them or they know me because I've been in their bedroom,
Speaker 1: in their living room, in their kitchen, and before they
Speaker 1: go to work and as they go to sleep, and
Speaker 1: so we are apart of our fans lives. You know, absolutely,
Speaker 1: But at least you can decipher yours a little better
Speaker 1: with Kevin and than Brian. That's true. I've never thought
Speaker 1: about that before Phyllis or Creed or Oscar or Angela. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and especially if they say, oh I saw you, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking Okay, now did I you know, did I
Speaker 1: go to school with them or what? Right? That's actually
Speaker 1: the most difficult. Well, I have two difficult fan interactions.
Speaker 1: One is I'll be at a at a serious place
Speaker 1: of business, like like in a thing, and I'm meeting someone.
Speaker 1: Or I have a good friend who's introducing me to
Speaker 1: a good friend who says like, oh, we've met before, right,
Speaker 1: And I immediately go, no, I know we haven't, and
Speaker 1: I know why you think before. But then to say that,
Speaker 1: you become like I no, like I was on a
Speaker 1: television show, you know, like so yeah, for me, I
Speaker 1: love all the fan interaction I have. I really haven't
Speaker 1: had an The hardest part for me is at a funeral.
Speaker 1: That's really awkward. I've had it happened twice, and I
Speaker 1: just have to say, you know, I'm here because of this,
Speaker 1: not or if you're at a wedding, and because I
Speaker 1: tend to forget, you know, I when I go to
Speaker 1: a wedding, I go to a wedding because I like
Speaker 1: the person. But other than that, I have no problem
Speaker 1: with them coming up to me. No, I don't. Nobody
Speaker 1: wants to buy me a drink. I don't drink but
Speaker 1: I think it's the specific Yeah, and part it's the
Speaker 1: specific character. Um do you remember, I mean you talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about it. Cree the last song like that.
Speaker 1: That that's the moment that you remember about the finale,
Speaker 1: and like that. The whole finale was, you know, driving
Speaker 1: out to that ranch out in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: and it was a total surprise to me. I didn't
Speaker 1: know Steve was going to come back, and I was,
Speaker 1: you know, just so thrilled to even seem out alone
Speaker 1: having been the finale and that was the best to
Speaker 1: have a full reunion for the finale. So you didn't
Speaker 1: know until you saw him there. So I'm in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night getting out of my car and
Speaker 1: there he was, you know, and I'm going, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's so great. Yeah. I had no idea it was
Speaker 1: coming back because they hid it in the script. It
Speaker 1: was not in the script. I somehow knew the night before.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I don't remember how, but like literally
Speaker 1: the night before or something like that. It was more
Speaker 1: like don't you tell a soul? But and I don't
Speaker 1: remember who told me whatever, But yeah, I remember it shocking.
Speaker 1: What's in his line his talking head about the your
Speaker 1: your children marrying each other well and just the that's
Speaker 1: what she said. This is the first thing out of
Speaker 1: his mouth, just so perfect. Um. And that's the thing
Speaker 1: that people don't realize now, Like when you watch it
Speaker 1: on Netflix. At the time, it was such a big
Speaker 1: surprise because everyone was asking and everyone was saying, you no,
Speaker 1: right because we assumed that it was no. But I
Speaker 1: mean even him and gregged and then net work didn't know,
Speaker 1: like nobody knew. Yeah. Um, now when you watch the show,
Speaker 1: you know that not as much build up. Um. What
Speaker 1: do you think it is about the show that makes
Speaker 1: people respond so crazy to it? Now? Golly, I don't know.
Speaker 1: People say, they'll come up and they say, I just
Speaker 1: love your you know, they love this or they love that,
Speaker 1: and they have a Dwight in their office, or they
Speaker 1: have a Kevin in their office, or they have you know,
Speaker 1: they have those people so they can relate in some
Speaker 1: way to the various characters. Um. But it was just different,
Speaker 1: you know. It took a bold step. And in today's world,
Speaker 1: it's some of it may cross the lines. You know,
Speaker 1: things are so politically correct nowadays. So uh, and little
Speaker 1: kids look at that A six year old who was
Speaker 1: asking as questions who they were so intelligent and informed
Speaker 1: and and to me, six is a little young to
Speaker 1: be involved in the show. But what do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's just about the characters
Speaker 1: and that it's it's a workplace comedy. But really it's
Speaker 1: a family, right, A family. Yeah, we've we've we've become
Speaker 1: enmeshed in each other's lives. Um, yeah, what was it
Speaker 1: all about for you? Um? We became family over the
Speaker 1: nine years. We didn't nobody really knew each other, but
Speaker 1: we all grew up together in a nine year period
Speaker 1: and uh, it was one of the best parts of
Speaker 1: my life. Yeah, uh yeah, Phillis, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming in. Thank you for thanking me. I love
Speaker 1: you so much. I'm so honored to call myself your friend,
Speaker 1: and we share something that will never ever go away.
Speaker 1: I'm exactly. We're hard to heart. Yeah, well, it doesn't
Speaker 1: doesn't get any better than her. Thank you, Phillis. Thank
Speaker 1: you Allison Jones again for joining me, um, and thanks
Speaker 1: to all of you once again for listening. Have a
Speaker 1: stuppendous week this week. Let's have the best week ever
Speaker 1: and I will see you next time for another installment
Speaker 1: of the Office Deep Dive. The Office Deep Dive is
Speaker 1: hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our
Speaker 1: executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer,
Speaker 1: our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
Speaker 1: is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
Speaker 1: by Seth Olandsky.