1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight an iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 2: crime all the time. Listen up, everybody. It's Monday, March thirtieth,

6
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 2: and we have a stack night of headlines. A Tennessee

7
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 2: grandmother claims that she was falsely imprisoned for months after

8
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 2: being falsely identified with AI recognition software. Can you imagine

9
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,199
Speaker 2: That's what's coming everybody. Plus, a trial date has finally

10
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 2: been set for the former American Idol contestant accused of

11
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,440
Speaker 2: murdering his wife and staging the crime scene. And also

12
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 2: another art heist ed. This one is for you, Courtney.

13
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 2: We want to know what your whereabouts are, but think

14
00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 2: about it. Ten million dollars in Italy and also just

15
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 2: you know. I know we say this each night, but

16
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 2: we can't say it enough. We are thinking of all

17
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 2: of the service men and women who are out there

18
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 2: real time and their family members who are missing them.

19
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,560
Speaker 2: Please know we are sending our love and ladies. I'm

20
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 2: so happy to be with you I'm Stephanie Leidecker here

21
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 2: as always with Courtney Armstrong and body move in, Hi ladies,

22
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 2: and of course we have producer Taha in the hot

23
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,479
Speaker 2: seat and Sam and Adam waiting by the phone. Eight

24
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime. How was your Monday, guys? Oh?

25
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,400
Speaker 2: Blank staars blank. It was very full. I mean it was,

26
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,680
Speaker 2: it was good. But yeah, busy, just another manic another man.

27
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 2: We want to say that again, Where do we begin?

28
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 2: Where do we severy Monday is just worse? Yes, it's

29
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 2: a piloge. It's an early got a case of the mondays?

30
00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Well, let's cure it. Let's go to Italy. Yes,

31
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 2: about that, Let's go to Italy. Okay, okay.

32
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 3: So about a week ago, on the night of March

33
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 3: twenty second, four mass thieves force their entry into a

34
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 3: first store floor of the Magnani Rocca Foundation.

35
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 2: So this villa.

36
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 3: That displays beautiful art is near Parma, Italy, and these

37
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 3: four mass thieves got access to the entire main floor.

38
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,720
Speaker 3: They stole a Renoir, Seizon and a Matisse. So these

39
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,799
Speaker 3: three paintings that are worth about ten million dollars and

40
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,760
Speaker 3: it was actually just announced yesterday, which is why we're

41
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 3: reporting on it now. Yeah, they kind of kept it secret,

42
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 3: it seems they did.

43
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 2: And for an interesting reason.

44
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 3: They kept it secret because they were kind of hoping

45
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 3: that the thieves would come back, because it appeared that

46
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 3: they had dropped a fourth painting, and so it was

47
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 3: a gamble, an interesting gamble that they took to not

48
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 3: release this information and catch them if.

49
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 2: They tried to come back. But million dollars, I know,

50
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,480
Speaker 2: I never really understand how you sell like something famous

51
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,640
Speaker 2: like I mean, people will recognize that on the black market.

52
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 2: How can you how do you make a profit off

53
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 2: of that?

54
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 3: Well, there must be a way if people are stealing,

55
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 3: if people are stealing these artifacts, there absolutely is some

56
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,079
Speaker 3: market that you'd have to think that they did their

57
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 3: due diligence and new Yeah, we think about it too,

58
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 3: even the one that happened in Paris.

59
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 2: You remember the last time that Courtney was at large.

60
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: Dare we say? But you know the jewels, you know,

61
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: you always think you know who's going to be able

62
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 2: to sell that on the black wall?

63
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 4: They break them down, don't they rise paintings though, you don't,

64
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 4: I mean, you can't really break those down, right, No jewels,

65
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 4: I can see Sam but like no things.

66
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 3: So these four masked people they bust in, the alarm

67
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 3: system went off, and then again they abandoned a fourth

68
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 3: intended painting, and they ended up escaping through the villa gardens.

69
00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,640
Speaker 2: They climbed over a fence.

70
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,040
Speaker 3: And what the Magnani Rocca Foundation has said is that

71
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 3: the theft was structured organized, it was a clearly planned heist,

72
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 3: and said it was only partially successful due to internal

73
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 3: security measures. So I guess their alarms and automatic locking

74
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 3: doors did what they were supposed to do. And interestingly,

75
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,760
Speaker 3: elite excuse me, Italy has this really in neat CABURINERI

76
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 3: I'm not pronouncing it correctly, but it's an art squad

77
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 3: that they lead all of these really high profile investigations.

78
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 3: And I'd never heard of sort of a really high

79
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 3: level art fascinating arts.

80
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, it sounds like, yeah, like the drama team

81
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 4: or something like a high school like the art squad's.

82
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 2: Year graduate to the art squad as an adult detectives. Yeah,

83
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 2: they're the ones that you call in because they can

84
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,719
Speaker 2: actually spot the frauds from the non frauds and they

85
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 2: really understand that of art. Dealkay, remember art dealing is

86
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,839
Speaker 2: a really big deal period, you know, pun not intended

87
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,880
Speaker 2: and sometimes in many you know, infamous tales, sometimes money

88
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,800
Speaker 2: laundering things were also a part of you know, art

89
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,560
Speaker 2: dealing in airports.

90
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so we did a little digging into this

91
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 3: Carabinieri Art Squad as I believe how you say it.

92
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 3: So it started back in nineteen sixty nine and it

93
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,680
Speaker 3: was the world's first police of its kind. It's a

94
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 3: specialized unit out of the military police and they're dedicated

95
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:54,600
Speaker 3: to fighting art theft, illicit antiques, trade and cultural heritage crime.

96
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,000
Speaker 3: And they're regarded as really highly effective.

97
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I guess it has a lot of

98
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 4: the treasures of the world, you know, in terms of art,

99
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,200
Speaker 4: so it doesn't make sense that they would have some

100
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,840
Speaker 4: kind of intelligence on this and probably be some of

101
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,840
Speaker 4: the leading experts, probably right.

102
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.

103
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,240
Speaker 3: The unit is headquartered in Rome and it's led by

104
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 3: a colonel and it's organized there's four different sections archaeology,

105
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,479
Speaker 3: antique dealing, fakes, and contemporary art. And yeah, they have

106
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 3: a nationwide presence. So anyway, so they are on the case.

107
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 3: And actually we do have a little bit of information.

108
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 3: It seems like TAHA has gathered what can happen to

109
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 3: stolen artifacts on the black market? Oh, actually, well look

110
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 3: at that, look at Taha, look at coming in hot

111
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,720
Speaker 3: thank you. So for black market and private collectors, things

112
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,599
Speaker 3: can be sold secretly through intermediaries to wealthy buyers, or

113
00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,799
Speaker 3: they can be held as leverage or hidden indefinitely.

114
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 2: Like we have give up the goods like that. Yes,

115
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 2: And I think there's also because you know, sometimes our

116
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:17,600
Speaker 2: dealing happens internationally, there's there's some sort of tax something

117
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 2: the world go rounds. Yeah, I mean Brian Walsh obviously

118
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 2: you know what's he dealing? Andy Warhols. Yes, Brian Walsh,

119
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 2: you guys will remember, is now behind bars from murdering

120
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 2: his wife after trying to fraudulently sell Andy Warhol knockoffs.

121
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 2: What a dud? This be not the guy, He's the

122
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 2: exact guy that we're not thinking of. Right when we

123
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 2: think about this elite squad, I'm imagining like the most

124
00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 2: sexy and sophisticated detectives in the history of time. They're

125
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,080
Speaker 2: all wearing black turtlenecks. They're all slightly fabulous and like

126
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 2: wearing a trench. And then you have Brian Walsh, that

127
00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 2: dud from the goof yeah, okay.

128
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, these intermediaries they can offer to reveal the

129
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 3: location of stolen works and that's for exchange for reduced

130
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 3: sentences or drop charges or lighter prosecution.

131
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 2: So that's an interesting, you know, business to be in.

132
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 3: And then sometimes attorneys or third parties approach prosecutors proposing

133
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 3: a return for leniency arrangement, particularly if the artwork is

134
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 3: famous or politically sensitive.

135
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,520
Speaker 2: And rewards. You know, people can get a big reward

136
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 2: sometimes too if you turn in the said artwork that

137
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:34,319
Speaker 2: you've stolen.

138
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 3: Right, and even high value artworks like the ones we're

139
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,960
Speaker 3: talking about, you know, from Matisse and these treasures that

140
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,440
Speaker 3: can never be replicated. They can function like a currency

141
00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 3: reserve sort of within organized crime, so they can be

142
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,119
Speaker 3: used to secure loans or guaranteed deals or settle disputes

143
00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:00,720
Speaker 3: without having to move any cash. So there's different things

144
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 3: you can see about the art world.

145
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even know it's such a thing. It's such

146
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 2: a world. A place in all of the land. L

147
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 2: Laungerie is a there's a very famous small museum if

148
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 2: you ever get to go. It's tiny, it's where all

149
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 2: the water lilies from take It's so monet rather. Yeah,

150
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 2: you're to my art and you're surrounded by them. It's

151
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 2: the most beautiful place on earth. Beautiful, but it's like, yeah,

152
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 2: you feel just history when you're there. But yeah, it's

153
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,680
Speaker 2: so sophisticated that it's it's hard to track any of it.

154
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,720
Speaker 2: But boy, it's big business. It is, absolutely, it's huge business.

155
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 2: And smuggling and laundering pipelines can They are often done

156
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,080
Speaker 2: internationally through trafficking networks, and they're given fake provenances and

157
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,079
Speaker 2: gradually can be introduced into the legal art market at

158
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 2: little galleries or auctions. M M. Very interesting. Love it. Okay,

159
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,680
Speaker 2: we should go to a talk back. Maybe there's a

160
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:01,959
Speaker 2: talk back we should run too.

161
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 5: Body, are you still following the Douggers question?

162
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 2: Is Joe Dugger missing? Let me know if you know

163
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,840
Speaker 2: anything more? First of all, well, yes, I'm so interested

164
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 2: to talk about this. This is pretty much breaking news.

165
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 2: What a great talkback? Body, tell us everything. Listen, I

166
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,560
Speaker 2: don't know much. I mean, I don't know where he's at. Okay,

167
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 2: but he apparently.

168
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 4: But would say hell hell now apparently he's missing. Uh

169
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,079
Speaker 4: And by missing, I mean we don't know where he's at. Okay,

170
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 4: So he was released, well, he waved his you know,

171
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 4: his extradition, so that he was going to be transferred

172
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,680
Speaker 4: to Florida, and he was released from Arkansas's custody, all right,

173
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 4: But on the opposite side in Florida, they're not confirming

174
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,559
Speaker 4: they have him and he doesn't appear on the inmate roster.

175
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 4: So it's where is he. That's how he's missing. It's

176
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,640
Speaker 4: not like he well, we don't know. But when we

177
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,680
Speaker 4: say missing or when you say missing, I imagine like

178
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 4: he got released and he's like off in the woods somewhere.

179
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 4: I don't think that's what's happened. I think he has

180
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 4: been probably extradited to Florida, but they just they're not

181
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,560
Speaker 4: confirming they have him, which is very strange, right, wow,

182
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:26,560
Speaker 4: very strange. So yeah, that's what's going on his We

183
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 4: don't know, nobody knows where he's at.

184
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 2: I mean, this is one of those stories that I

185
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 2: think will be unpacking for a while. And again, if

186
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,079
Speaker 2: you're not super familiar with it, you'll remember that TLC

187
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 2: show that starred the Dugger family. It was there was

188
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 2: nineteen kids, and then they went on to have spin

189
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 2: offs because the kids were having kids and two of

190
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 2: the sons have now been accused of horrific sexual crimes.

191
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 2: You know, one of them accused of committing crimes against

192
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: their own sisters. This all became very very public, and

193
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 2: then just recently yet another one also now accused allegedly

194
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly. Oh no, he actually confessed, is what I think. Right.

195
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,079
Speaker 2: He confessed for doing something inappropriate with a nine year

196
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,720
Speaker 2: old girl who was sitting on his lap.

197
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 4: What he said was his intentions weren't pure or something

198
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,200
Speaker 4: along those lines is what.

199
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:23,200
Speaker 2: He saw to Say'll, yeah, so yeah, he's riot. Yep. Yeah.

200
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 2: His wife was arrested.

201
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 4: Apparently there were some locks found on the doors to

202
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 4: some of the kids' rooms, and so that's his anyway,

203
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,080
Speaker 4: It's part of a broader investigation that's happening in Arkansas

204
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 4: that we know very little about. But this whole transfer situation,

205
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 4: he was transferred out of Arkansas detention facility or A

206
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 4: nine days after he was booked on those felony charges,

207
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,440
Speaker 4: right on those current charges, and the Sheriff's office told

208
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,640
Speaker 4: People magazine that Joseph is no longer in their custody

209
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 4: as of Friday, March twenty seventh, but he's not yet

210
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 4: listed as being a custom of the Florida Sheriff's Department.

211
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,120
Speaker 4: Charges have not been formally filed by prosecutors in that county,

212
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,200
Speaker 4: and the agency has declined to comment when asked if

213
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,680
Speaker 4: Joseph has been extradited to their facility in Florida following

214
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,840
Speaker 4: his release from Arkansas. And that's really all anybody really knows. Wow,

215
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,840
Speaker 4: I mean, it's kind of crazy, and there's not a

216
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 4: lot of news about it too, like people magazines talking

217
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 4: about it, and of all things is IMDb page. It's like,

218
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,040
Speaker 4: really strange.

219
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,640
Speaker 2: It's very strange. That's just talking about it. How interesting. Yeah,

220
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,439
Speaker 2: it's kind of breaking real time. Honestly, it's a very

221
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 2: strange about this the other night. I have to assume

222
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 2: there's something larger happening in the you know, ecosystem of

223
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,319
Speaker 2: the Duggers. And I do think that needs a closer examination,

224
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 2: I really do, and I hope that I hope that

225
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 2: gets done.

226
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 3: And the charges against the charges against his wife, body

227
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 3: had mentioned something with the locks, and yet there were

228
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 3: four doors, four bedroom doors in their home that the

229
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,960
Speaker 3: locks were outside, So basically kids would be locked in

230
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 3: unable to get out, which is a fire hazard.

231
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,679
Speaker 4: At the least right, right, And well, I think that

232
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 4: the charge was, like, what was it involuntary.

233
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,319
Speaker 3: And endangering the welfare and false imprisonment?

234
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 2: Right?

235
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean we don't really know, But did

236
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 4: you guys hear that Jim Bob and Michelle broke their silence? Yeah,

237
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 4: they released Yeah, they released a statement through like I

238
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 4: think one of their their people that said, you know,

239
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 4: they're devastated beyond measure that this is happening to them.

240
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like, this is happenings, not really happening to them.

241
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 2: This is something that their children are, you know, are

242
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,520
Speaker 2: being predators, and I think that's something that requires an examination.

243
00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 2: The statistics are pretty staggering about this generational stuff, right,

244
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 2: and how sometimes these types of behaviors are learned and

245
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 2: that's being learned and passed down someplace, and I think

246
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 2: that should be looked into.

247
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 4: They did say that they're praying for the victim, and

248
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 4: they asked for privacy and appreciate the kind words in

249
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 4: prayers offered by so many. Jim, Bob and Michelle are

250
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 4: heartbroken over the entire situation. Right now, they are focused

251
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,240
Speaker 4: on loving their family and helping Kendra, the wife and

252
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 4: their children, during this difficult time.

253
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 3: Well, we will keep you updated on that and stick

254
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 3: around because when we come back. A Tennessee grandmother was

255
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:42,080
Speaker 3: arrested after being misidentified by facial recognition via AI, and

256
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 3: she spent months in jail before anyone caught the mistake.

257
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 3: This is very important, keep it here. True Crime Tonight.

258
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime todaight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

259
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,640
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as

260
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 2: always with my two favorite partners in true crime, Justice

261
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 2: Body move in and Courtney Armstrong. So, Courtney, which should

262
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 2: we hid you next?

263
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 3: Okay, here's a really important story that I feel like

264
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 3: is body's literal nightmare come to be Like here we are.

265
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 3: So a fifty year old grandmother from Tennessee. Her name

266
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 3: is Angela Lips. She was wrongly flagged to buy AI

267
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 3: as a suspect in a series of bank of bank

268
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 3: frauds that happened in Fargo, North Dakota, and she ended

269
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 3: up spending over five months jailed on multiple felony charges.

270
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 4: Believable, unbelievable. This is infuriating to me. Yeah, absolutely infuriating.

271
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 4: Fifty year old Tennessee grandmother, Right, AI flagged her as

272
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 4: being the one responsible for these bank frauds, and they

273
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 4: arrested her and put her in jail for five months

274
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 4: and didn't double check anything.

275
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 3: So it was way later when bank records later confirmed

276
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 3: that indeed Angela Lips was in Tennessee during the alleged crimes,

277
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 3: that she was released. This happened just on Christmas Eve

278
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,239
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago, and the Fargo Police has

279
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 3: have since acknowledged errors and pledged to reform. Oh and

280
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 3: pledge reforms their AI and investigation procedures, like how about

281
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 3: checking that your suspect has ever one time been to

282
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 3: the state of North Dakota, which Angela, I'd start there?

283
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 2: Never, Yeah, yeah, I'd start there. This is so scary though,

284
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 2: the AI piece of it, even just this whole facial

285
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 2: recognition piece of it, is so scary. Perfect example.

286
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, terrifying. So here's what happened the lead up. So

287
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 3: between April and May of last year, there were several

288
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 3: bank frauds.

289
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,119
Speaker 2: They happened in far Go, North Dakota, and the suspect

290
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 2: used a fake US Army military ID and they withdrew

291
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars. So the Fargo Police reviewed surveillance footage.

292
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 2: They used facial recognition software that came from the West

293
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 2: Fargo Police Department and that incorrectly flagged Angela Ellipse, the

294
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 2: Tennessee resident who had never once been to North Dakota.

295
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 2: And then a human Fargo detective stepped in, looked at

296
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 2: Angela Ellipse's social media, her driver's license, and physical characteristics

297
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 2: and concluded, yeah, she matches the suspects features, body type

298
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 2: and hair perfect, just like I.

299
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 3: Look close enough. She's like, I look like every you

300
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,199
Speaker 3: know Irish on Loog Island.

301
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 2: We all look alike. Like if I may make a

302
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 2: blast anyway, but.

303
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,119
Speaker 3: You know, close enough, this color, hair that tall. Yeah so.

304
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 3: And then in July of last year, a North Dakota

305
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 3: judge issued a nationwide arrest warrant for Angela Lipse for

306
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 3: this okay, the incarceration. She was arrested July last year

307
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 3: at her Tennessee home. US Marshalls came. They booked her

308
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 3: as a fugitive from justice from North Dakota, and she

309
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 3: spent over three months in Tennessee without bail. She was

310
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,400
Speaker 3: unable to challenge the charges until she could be extradited,

311
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 3: and she faced four counts of theft and four counts

312
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,639
Speaker 3: of unauthorized use of personal identifying information. And you guys,

313
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 3: her flight to North Dakota for her extradition was the

314
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,640
Speaker 3: first time she was on an airplane in her life.

315
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 2: Stop. Unbelievable. Are you kidding me?

316
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: Now?

317
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: How come she didn't have a public defender? I wonder.

318
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 3: It was only upon extra addition that Angela Lips actually

319
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 3: retained an attorney, and that attorney then immediately requested her

320
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 3: bank records.

321
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 4: She didn't have an attorney during her extradition hearings.

322
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 2: That I would have to assume she did. She would

323
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: have to have had some sort of some sort of

324
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: an attorney that would have been available to her. But again,

325
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 2: who knows the backclog not having access.

326
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 4: To that attorney though her extradition. Her extradition attorney would

327
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 4: have only been dealing with the extradition process and not

328
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 4: the case in North Dakota. So she can't fight the

329
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 4: charges in North Dakota until she gets extradited there.

330
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 2: So right, so everything I need to be handled there? No,

331
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 2: it sounds like a lawsuit for Granny that she needs

332
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: to get back. Read with that real quick, five months

333
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 2: of your life being behind bars for being falsely accused

334
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 2: and not being able to get your way back to

335
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: your family in a completely different state because she had

336
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 2: wrongly been accused through facial recognition.

337
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 3: And then just the fact that it was it just

338
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 3: that the investigation never went any further before the arrest happened.

339
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 2: Wow.

340
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 3: So it was Finally at the end of December of

341
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: last year, the state's attorney and the Fargo authorities dismissed

342
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 3: all the charges without prejudice, and Angela Lips was then

343
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 3: released from custody on Christmas Eve of last year.

344
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 4: Wow. So, I mean they dismissed it without prejudice, so

345
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 4: they're still saying maybe it's.

346
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 2: Her, that's right, Yeah, that's weird, and you'd heard of.

347
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 4: I think that's a cover a cya moment for them,

348
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 4: Like that is exactly what.

349
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: I said, and immediate earlier, Yes I did. I said

350
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 3: it's a cya. They are just being like, well, you know,

351
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: we're still looking into it.

352
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:49,719
Speaker 2: Uh, you never know.

353
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 4: Even though her attorney provided bank records showing she was

354
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 4: in Tennessee performing normal transaction like she was buying pizza,

355
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 4: she was getting uber eat, she was depositing her checks.

356
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 4: You know, she was doing regular normal things with her bank,

357
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 4: her bank in Tennessee.

358
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: Like this had like a complete digital footprint to be

359
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 2: able to exonerate her pretty much immediately, just based on

360
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,719
Speaker 2: what you said, body just there, think about it and

361
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 2: to be that optionless. We're really sorry, Granny grandma.

362
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And so Angela Lips arranged for her

363
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: return to Tennessee. Her funds were provided by her defense team,

364
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 3: and she's described her experience as terrifying, exhausting, and humiliating,

365
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 3: of course said and she said she'd never returned to

366
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 3: North Dakota.

367
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 2: I don't believe.

368
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 4: Poor thing, igsting. So did what did the police say

369
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 4: about this? Do they say anything about this I AI

370
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 4: system they're using?

371
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: So the Fargo police chief knowledged procedural errors, including an

372
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 3: over reliance on AI and a fair you have to

373
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: fail you're careful.

374
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, all this AI stuff is going to be crazy making.

375
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: I keep hearing about this digital cage all or if

376
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about, it's it's something that's

377
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: finding its way into my algorithm. So take it with

378
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: a grain of salt. But just the idea that everything

379
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,719
Speaker 2: is now going to be facial recognition, you know, we

380
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: see stories like the one we'll talk about probably a

381
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 2: little bit later. For example, okay Cupid. Remember that old

382
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: dating website that people were on back in the day

383
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 2: that was like the original match dot com, or maybe

384
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: even more so than that, because it was like a

385
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 2: parallel company owns them. Yeah, correct, that's right. Well, the

386
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 2: same founders, now, years later, after Oka Cupid is long

387
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: and gone, has started a new company called Clarity where

388
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 2: you know, all of the files from Okaycupid that users

389
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: agreed to have, you know, their personal information used for

390
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: is now being reprocessed under a totally different way. And

391
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: think about it. It's all this intimate information about your

392
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: dating preferences and photographs and things like to take a quiz,

393
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 2: you have to take a quiz exactly. Ooh, well, think

394
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: about it. That's not what the intended use was. So now,

395
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: years and years later, your privacy is being sold essentially

396
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: for reasons that you had no understanding of. You know, body,

397
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: you and I were talking about it in the break

398
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, we have to read the fine print,

399
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: you know, like never before. You can't just check check

400
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 2: check check check, though.

401
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 4: I think you have to assume that everything you sign

402
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 4: up for from this point forward at least, right you

403
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 4: can't go back to the time right from this point forward.

404
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 4: Assume everything that you sign up for that's like free

405
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 4: or you know, they're going to be selling your data. Okay,

406
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 4: because listen, information is so powerful. That's why Google is

407
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 4: so rich, because they know everything we want. They know

408
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 4: everything we're searching for, they know the content of our emails,

409
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 4: they know everything about us. They're so powerful. So assume

410
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 4: that other data collectors they want that too, They want

411
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 4: that power. Assume everything you sign up for is going

412
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: to be selling your data.

413
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: That's what I would do. First of all, I agree

414
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: with you aleheartedly. How agree?

415
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, I agree the you know, the nefarious uses,

416
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 3: I honestly accept and expect that. Should big business do better?

417
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 3: Yeah they should. I don't expect it. And if I

418
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: signed a waiver that I didn't read, which I do

419
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 3: probably six times a week, yeah me too, let's say

420
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: that's on me.

421
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 2: However, in this instance it was outside.

422
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: They violated their privacy policy. So that is the problem,

423
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: and they the FTC reported that okaycup it in Match

424
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: attempted to conceal the twenty fourteen data sharing and misled

425
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 3: the me that's key. This, Yes, this is what's key.

426
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 3: Has me infuriated about this.

427
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 4: So they are outside of their own policy that we

428
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 4: all agree to when we sign up for it, right,

429
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 4: and so that's why there is a lawsuit in settlement.

430
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, but.

431
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 3: There it seems like there's no big deal at least

432
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 3: at this point. The FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, basically

433
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 3: the end of this lawsuit is no penalties and Clarify

434
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 3: they still hold the images at this time, so it's basically,

435
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: don't do it again.

436
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: I think even our president had to weigh in on it.

437
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: It went that far, and it kind of yeah, correct

438
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, and I think they got to

439
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: slap on the wrist. They shouldn't do it again.

440
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 4: Oh so does the AI system still have the images too?

441
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, yes they have the images.

442
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: Also to note, the FTC also revealed that the founders

443
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 3: of Okaycupid, guess what, they're financial investors in Clarify and

444
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 3: the two companies. Right, So the two companies, they had

445
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: no official business relationship, except the founders had cash in

446
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: each of those two piles.

447
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: Think about it, that's what we have to be looking

448
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: at again. We talked about this with Meta. You know,

449
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: we all signed up for Facebook kind of under one

450
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 2: principle and then it evolved into something else. Now we

451
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: know better, so like, oh the gig is up. Okay,

452
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: here we're seeing this again. It's even weirder. Like every

453
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: single thing you put in text in email, if you

454
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: type it, you must assume that it should be public.

455
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: And honestly, we used to give that advice to our

456
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 2: kids and like loved ones. But now more than ever,

457
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: there is no protection.

458
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 4: So I didn't I didn't understand this fully initially. But

459
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 4: so you're telling me that they sold the images and

460
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 4: the data to an AI system.

461
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: They got sued.

462
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 4: The FTC stepped in and said, it's fine, and the

463
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 4: AI system you can keep the images.

464
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's where it landed.

465
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: They still have unless it has changed since a couple

466
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 3: of hours ago.

467
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: Yes, Clarify still holds the images. Yep, so there was

468
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: that is no that is too, by the way, that

469
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: is and Clarifies benefiting. So once again we can slap

470
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: you know, Mark Zuckerberg on the hands or Bill Gates

471
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 2: for having all of our detail and just or chatchpt

472
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: whatever the thing is. But we don't know where that information.

473
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: Everything we have in our chat GPTs even now, which

474
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: kids are being encouraged to use, et cetera. That entire

475
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: history can be used in any way, shape or form.

476
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 4: And it means what you're looking for, These things know

477
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 4: you more intimately than anyone else. Right, it knows your

478
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 4: deepest arcas, secrets, the things you're searching for, the things

479
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 4: that you want, the things that you know. It's think

480
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 4: about what that data means to advertisers, right, if advertisers

481
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: know what the you know, fifteen year old American boy wants,

482
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 4: think of how valuable that data.

483
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: Is, right, yeah, come on, and they then they just

484
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: create a bunch of bots to sell exactly what people

485
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: want to hear excu The loop continues, and the only

486
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: ones that get left out of the club is us.

487
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're the ones that are giving them all the

488
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: stuff for free. By the way, and by the way,

489
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 4: I'm guilty of it as well, you know what I mean,

490
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 4: high horse like, I'm very guilty of it as well.

491
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: We all are. Shame on them though, because there really

492
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: has been no guard brails whatsoever. Shame on the FTC.

493
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 4: Shame on the FTC for holding business for not holding

494
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 4: businesses accountable and not protecting the privacy in the American public.

495
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: Shame on the FTC.

496
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 3: And advocates and several politicians have con damned the settlement,

497
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: saying it was too lenient as it yeah, that the

498
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 3: user data was exploited without meaningful consequences.

499
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: I don't even know.

500
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: If there's no consequences, why what's going to prevent the

501
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: next up and coming AI system to go. Oh, let

502
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 4: me get e Harmony's data and let's find you know,

503
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 4: the data for people on Amazon, Like I want to

504
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: know all the wish lists of people that lonely follow

505
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 4: North Dakota. Oh, look at you know, give me a break,

506
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 4: no consequences, are going to do it again?

507
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: Speaking in North Dakota.

508
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: I did want to loop back to Miss Angela Lips

509
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: Yes one second, who were speaking about earlier. She is

510
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: the grandmother who spent five months in prison because AI

511
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: thought she was stealing moneies from a state she never visited.

512
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: So we actually reached out to her legal team today

513
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: and they gave a statement to us. Her civil rights

514
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: attorney eric A Rice. He's of the law firm eric

515
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: A Rice says cases like Anne are only going to

516
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 3: become more common as AI facial recognition becomes cheaper and

517
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: more widespread. Her case is a reminder that these tools

518
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: are not a substitute for real police work, and warrants

519
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: law enforcement against using AI as a shortcut. Instead, men

520
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 3: do a thorough investigation.

521
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: A men to that lawyer, he said, he took the

522
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 4: words out of my mouth.

523
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: As I'm talking coming on air, I'm seeing a stink bug,

524
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: which I know, it becomes terrible. It doesn't seem to stink.

525
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: I'm being told this real time. I'm asking those just

526
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: to touch it. No, but I think if you move

527
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: it or you try to kill it, which you know,

528
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: we don't want to do that. We want to get

529
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: it free. But it seems pretty big. But then if

530
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: you kill it by accident, more come.

531
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what we're finding out real We are all

532
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: collectively on the case here at Crime Tonight on what's

533
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: doing with this stink bug? So, yes, if you squish

534
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: it indoors, they release a pungent odor and it can

535
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: attract doorbugs.

536
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: Oh, I wouldn't even talk about this. Moving on, moving on,

537
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: let's go to a talk back. Okay, gross, good morning

538
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: True Crime.

539
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 6: I'm walking my neighborhood and listening to your podcast from

540
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 6: last night, you're speaking of Brian Colberger and that video

541
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 6: from the DMV, which I'm sure that people once he confessed,

542
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 6: were beside themselves.

543
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: But in post.

544
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 6: COVID, people wearing gloves, mask, whatever, there's no red flags anymore.

545
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: Right before COVID.

546
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 6: There would have been red flags somebody coming here with

547
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 6: those big gloves on, but not anymore.

548
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I disagree.

549
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 4: I mean, this is an opinion, and both of us,

550
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 4: I think, are both right, you know what I mean.

551
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 4: But I if he was wearing like those latex gloves

552
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 4: that people wore, you know, like that doctor's wear, you know,

553
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 4: the germ gloves or whatever, then yeah, I probably would

554
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: be like whatever. But listen, when you look at the

555
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 4: totality of the interview and he's looking around, he's you know,

556
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 4: and those big bulky gloves. To me, to me only,

557
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 4: I'm literally the only one apparently. I thought it well, like.

558
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: You said, its opinion and perception, that's exception is reality. Right,

559
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 3: So when I view we all viewed the same video,

560
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: and to me, I did not get the vibe of

561
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: Brian Colberger looking around and he seemed very casual to me,

562
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: and also the I don't know people, we're all kinds of.

563
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: Strangling sometimes.

564
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: The thing that is that when he came in, the

565
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: gloves weren't fully on. You can see his like you

566
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 4: know where you're the web of your thumb and your

567
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 4: your forefinger that was not inside the glove he put

568
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 4: them on to start touching things, And that to me

569
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 4: is a red flag.

570
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: I just I don't know what to say, or is

571
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: that something that would have in a different universe been

572
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: kind of indicative of the fact that he's kind of

573
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: a crazy germophobe. And when I say germaphobe, I don't

574
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: mean germophobes are crazy, but in his case, he was

575
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: very hyper aware of Germans. Will remember even his prison

576
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: yeah footage which we weren't supposed to see. It was

577
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 2: taken austitiously from a fellow inmate. We assume you could

578
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: see him rubbing his hands together so much they were

579
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: almost bleeding. So maybe, you know, as somebody who's fastidious

580
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 2: in that way OCD to some degree, maybe that's where

581
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: my brain went. And by the way, I'm from New York,

582
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 2: so you know, you see somebody naked carrying a guitar

583
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: and it doesn't even like strike you as odd, you know,

584
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: so maybe you know, yes, in the totality, knowing what

585
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: we know now, it should have raised red flags for me.

586
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: But I'm picturing myself standing behind him, not giving it

587
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: a second thought, even if I was eavesdropping. I don't

588
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: think I would have been small.

589
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 4: If you lived in a small town and they're just

590
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 4: been a big murder, right, Yes, a big murder, the

591
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 4: biggest probably in the country has seen in decades. Right,

592
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 4: And there was a guy in front of you at

593
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 4: this DMV, which by the way, had no other people

594
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 4: in line, which is crazy to.

595
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: Me the only world. But by the way, I would

596
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: never think that this guy's looking behind him and he's

597
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: got these gloves on. You wouldn't be like bro in

598
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: a million years, would I not think that a killer

599
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: of four incredible people were like at DMV? That to

600
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: me would be the last place I'd rather I mean,

601
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: I don't say this, I mean what I was going

602
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: to say is inappropriate, but again, it's like the last

603
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: place you want to be, you know, you'd know rather

604
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: be anywhere else sometimes than the DMV. So yeah, I'm

605
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: not assuming that the guy behind me online, who baby

606
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: is unless weird gloves is even that I don't even

607
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: think would have read an alarm for me, And I

608
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 2: guess that's what's so scary. Maybe now it would. I'm

609
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: seeing the world through a different lens because of this case.

610
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: M hm, how dare you be in front of me

611
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 2: with those gloves? Now I might see differently. I was

612
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: just kind of going back into yester year and how

613
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: he like surprisingly kind of blended in.

614
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 7: I think there's a world I was just going to

615
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 7: ask you think he was trying to cover maybe some

616
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 7: I talked you about this briefly, scratches or something, because

617
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 7: I remember with the night. I think early on Joseph

618
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 7: said no, possibly not.

619
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 4: And the only reason I say that to listen. We

620
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 4: don't know, right, we don't know. But there's a video

621
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 4: of him at the Costco right after the murderers and

622
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 4: he's got like a water bottle and he's walking into

623
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 4: Costco and the lady stops him because she wants this

624
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 4: Costco card.

625
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: He's not okay, ah okay. He's also very nonchalant in

626
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: that scenario.

627
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 4: Also mad a scenario I thought he was a nonchalant, Yeah,

628
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 4: just you know, walking around Costco.

629
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: Grabbing a coffee after I've murdered four people. I'm just thinking,

630
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: if I am the family members of any of these victims,

631
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 2: and I see how casual this nutbag was after taking

632
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 2: my child's life, I don't know how you process that.

633
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: I want him to be shaking on the floor, sick

634
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: to death, you know, overcome with guilt covered in hives.

635
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: You know, you would imagine it would be a tell

636
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: it would be hard to mask that type of psychopathy.

637
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: And I guess that's what makes him incredibly unique.

638
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 4: Right, And then I think he drove to the Albertson's

639
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 4: and we have from that too.

640
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 2: And this guy was out and about it was all over.

641
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: He's wearing that what that like? What is it like?

642
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 4: Sage green whitish button down shirt that we see the

643
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 4: thumbs up picture.

644
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, you think about his mom too, Even Brian

645
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: Coberger has a very loving family. You think about his

646
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: mother and his father and his sisters. That's probably a

647
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: very you know, familiar version of him. This is the

648
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: version of him that they probably know. So to reconcile

649
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: that in your head against the person slash monster you

650
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: have to be to commit those murders and then go

651
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: in Dilly Dally your way to Albertson's in Costco, Andy.

652
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: And by the way, these are all no offense to

653
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: any of them. These are my least favorite places again

654
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: at Costco to the list, you know, these are not

655
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: the things you think you're going to do, is go

656
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: run a bunch of errands where you're going to be

657
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 2: on camera everywhere. That's another thing he knew he would

658
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: be on surveillance. Costco has got cameras everywhere. That's that's

659
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: why he did it. He's doing like a time wanted.

660
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: I think I think so too, and he wanted to

661
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 4: be seen kind of far away because he went to

662
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 4: the south of Idaho slash Washington.

663
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: Ah.

664
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 7: Well, this resonated with a lot of our listeners. We

665
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 7: have another Brian talkback that we can do. But side notes, Stephanie,

666
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 7: I looked up quickly. Don't squish a stink bug. They

667
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 7: do actually stink when you squish them. Just let it

668
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 7: out out.

669
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: But let's go to that country girls stuff.

670
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 6: Man.

671
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 5: I am at work in Pittsburgh listening to the Brian

672
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 5: Cober and his changing of the license plate. I lived

673
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 5: in Pennsylvania and Washington, and I actually switched my license

674
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 5: plates both directions. I was never pulled over for having

675
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 5: the out of state license plate, but I wondered did

676
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 5: he make sure that it was changed so there wasn't

677
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 5: just another random reason for somebody to pull him over,

678
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 5: because once somebody pulled him over, more likely to be

679
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 5: seen thoughts.

680
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a I think, Lisa, that's a

681
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 4: really good point. But his license plates from Pennsylvania were expiring,

682
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 4: like on the twentieth, so he had to change them.

683
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: He had to do it.

684
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 4: It was just convenient for him to do so after

685
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 4: the murders because listen, if he's seen on camera in

686
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 4: the car and the car only has one license plate

687
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 4: in the back, that's identifiable, right, that's identifi able, you know, like, oh,

688
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 4: it's a Hyundai Lantra with only a back license plate, right,

689
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: and he's driving around with only one license plate. So

690
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 4: it's a very convenient reason for him to change those

691
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 4: license plates and get two license plates. But yeah, gotcha,

692
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 4: But yeah, that it could also be like, hey, I

693
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 4: got to get this done because you know, these are

694
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 4: my license plates are expiring, right, and I don't want

695
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 4: to get pulled over because listen, Brian Coberger was getting

696
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 4: pulled over all the deft and right yeah, right, like constantly.

697
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 4: But let's not give them another reason. So let me

698
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: go get these you know this done. It was a

699
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: very convenient expiration.

700
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: Let's say that. What's interesting.

701
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think any and all is possible.

702
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 3: And also, you know you mentioned Lisa that you didn't

703
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: get pulled over, but it certainly is something I have

704
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: had friends.

705
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: And also, ps, if you've moved, go ahead and update

706
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: your information because it's a really hefty penalty in most states,

707
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 2: like hundreds and hundreds of dollars if you don't have

708
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 2: your correct sort of car stuff in order for this state.

709
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 4: Oh, you just reminded me driver's license is expiring.

710
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: I need to girl. All right, we have time for

711
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 2: another talk back. Let's do it.

712
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 8: HATI It's Alicia from Atlanta. Just wanted to give you

713
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 8: a little tidbit. So my little sister decided to go

714
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 8: to a serial killer exhibition tour here in Atlanta, and

715
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 8: she sent me some photos. I declined because I thought

716
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 8: it will be all too real for me to see

717
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 8: these things in person. She said at the end she

718
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 8: felt cold, anxious, and had a really bad headache, so

719
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 8: it would be a hard pass for me.

720
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 2: Bye guys, Oh yeah, do you think it's so true?

721
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: I don't think our bodies are meant to take in

722
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: that much traumatic material.

723
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 4: I just don't kind of wonder like seeing those kind

724
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 4: of things, like the vibes like cling to something, you know,

725
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 4: like I know that sounds crazy, but like that stuff

726
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 4: has like bad vibes attached to me.

727
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 2: Almost would say you should never see it. Yeah, even

728
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: when we look at stuff now, I have to be

729
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 2: very like intentional about it. You know, you know you're

730
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: what you're getting into. You sort of prepare yourself. You

731
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: sort of say a prayer. You know. It's something very

732
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: specific and frankly, I don't know a better word to say,

733
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: it's really sacred and to have it just be casually consumed,

734
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 2: even on shows and documentaries. I don't like it when

735
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: you see the blood stained actual carpet. You know, sometimes

736
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 2: it's too grisly. You know, we really work hard to

737
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 2: kind of pull any like human bodies and things. You

738
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: It's like the imagination is a very real thing sometimes

739
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 2: seeing that, though, is it kind of changes your DNA

740
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 2: a little bit. I would I would be mindful to

741
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 2: not absorb everything which is I know, very rich coming

742
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 2: from a true crime background, and we're talking about true

743
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: crime right now. Yeah, you know you're the opposite, but

744
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: that it's also your brain specifically can tolerate a certain level,

745
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 2: which is why you do what you do.

746
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 4: I'm not saying I want to like, I'm not searching

747
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 4: for these things and I'm not foiling you know these

748
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 4: things either, but you know, but to your point, yeah,

749
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 4: you do. You do prepare yourself to look at these things.

750
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 4: And when I do it, I I literally have like

751
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 4: a switch inside me. Then I'm like, okay, turn off

752
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 4: your emotion, look at this objectively. You know, you I

753
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 4: prepare myself for it. So I definitely understand where you're

754
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 4: coming from, stuff like one hundred percent. And I'm, you know,

755
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 4: very careful in how I discuss it.

756
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: Interesting to have a museum or like or about I've

757
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: heard about this place, see.

758
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: Okay, like where Ted Bundy's bug is and stuff like that.

759
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 4: It's like a serial killer museum. I thought I wasn't Tennessee,

760
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 4: but I might be around my work or a walking

761
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 4: tour was what.

762
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: I don't know why I have heard that from that,

763
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: So it wouldn't necessarily be you're looking at any photographs

764
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: in how I took him, but just walking this is

765
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: the place where such and such happened. This is a

766
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: place where and I looked it up.

767
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 7: It's a it's in the Pullman Yards in Atlanta, and

768
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 7: it's an immersive true crime experience.

769
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 2: It's not a wrong.

770
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 7: Tour, but it features like over two thousand real artifacts

771
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 7: tied to Ted Bundy, Dahmer, Gracie, so all those various cases.

772
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 7: But when she first mentioned this case, it may be

773
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 7: cringe because I thought, is this going to be a

774
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 7: tour of do.

775
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: You remember the Atlanta child murders? And absolutely I do,

776
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 2: so that's what made me. I initially thought like I

777
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: could never we should cover that. We've never talked about

778
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: that before. Excellent idea. It's a very I don't know

779
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: how I feel about it.

780
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a it's a heavy one because it's children,

781
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 7: of course, and it was there were a lot of

782
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 7: racial factors involved, but it's it's it's a very strong.

783
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 4: It's complicated, very complicated. I don't know that they got

784
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 4: the right guy.

785
00:44:59,480 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: I've heard that.

786
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 7: I have family members for years who've said that they

787
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 7: actually got the wrong Yeah, there's been a theory for

788
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 7: a while.

789
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: But but that's maybe we'll unpack that one.

790
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 7: I'll see if we can get someone who's been actively

791
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 7: involved with that case and we can get them on

792
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 7: the show.

793
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: That would be great. I would love to. Yeah, okay,

794
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: so this is just a quick update on the stink Bug,

795
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: which we opened the set. That's what I was about.

796
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: It's getting very close.

797
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 7: Is that it is with the show or the stink Bug?

798
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: No, the bug? Do we all agree that that's what

799
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: it is? I just sent a photo. I haven't seen it.

800
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, but Stephanie is sitting is huge.

801
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's right by you, girl.

802
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even be in the same room right now.

803
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: During the show. God my goodness, somebody help. If anybody

804
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: knows how I feel like from Boston would know what

805
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 2: to do, right, No crap.

806
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 4: You know how you can put You know how you

807
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 4: could put like a dawn. Just open a thing of

808
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 4: water and vinegar and its tracts like flies.

809
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 3: For the stink bugs, they actually said to drown them again,

810
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: so you don't smash it and attract more so, you

811
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: should have someone who isn't isn't us Stephanie come with

812
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: a big cup of soapy water and knock that bug

813
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 3: into the paper. And it's a lot, but listen, keep

814
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: it here because at the top of the hour we

815
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: will hopefully be done with the stink bug gait and

816
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about a former American Idol contestant

817
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: who's accused of murdering his wife and then staging a burglary.

818
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 3: Plus the Austin Drummond case. It's one we're coming back

819
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 3: to after a bunch of time has passed. Keep it here.

820
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight. We are talking true crime all the time.

821
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

822
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as

823
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: always with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So listen.

824
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the show, you don't have

825
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: to worry even for a second because we are also

826
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: podcast right after. So you can just download your iHeartRadio

827
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: app and boom you can catch the podcast, or you

828
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 2: can also leave us a talk back and just download

829
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: your iHeartRadio app. In the top right hand corner, there's

830
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: that little microphone. You just push the microphone, leave a

831
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 2: message and then boom, we can play it on the show.

832
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: In fact, let's go to our talkback right now.

833
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 9: Hi, lady and Sam Tahan Adam business does from South Jersey.

834
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 9: I was listening to the show where you guys were

835
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 9: talking about your algorithm. I'm so embarrassed to tell you

836
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 9: guys this, but I have been watching these real videos

837
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 9: of people falling. Oh my god, I'm so but it's

838
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 9: so terrible because they really get hurt, but it's so

839
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 9: funny and I send them to my kids and my

840
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 9: husband and I think I'm crazy. Anyway, Love you guys.

841
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 2: You're crazy. I don't want to because I fall. You

842
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: gotta just prepare yourself to get laughed at. And it's okay, Yeah,

843
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: it is okay.

844
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 4: I think I talked about this a while ago, Like

845
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with those videos, like people like slipping on ice,

846
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 4: like in front of their ring doorbell and then somebody

847
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 4: comes out to help them and they fall.

848
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 2: To so too much, yeah, so too much, having been

849
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: that person more than more than most. But I think

850
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: it's fair game and you should not feel bad about it,

851
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 2: assuming there's not like a broken neck or something, or

852
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: broken limbs. We're not sadists, but a little chuckle the

853
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: little slip of rooney on a banana peel. You can't

854
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: beat it? That's good? Yeah? Nothing where see a limb snap?

855
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: Or does anybody really ever slip on a banana peel?

856
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 2: Is that a thing? Yes? Are they slippery? Literally? My

857
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: husband did, yes, when we were dating. It was absolutely

858
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: It was magnificent. I couldn't believe it. Why is there

859
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: a banana peel on the floor? And why are you

860
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: walking on it?

861
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 3: We were out in the street and it was at night,

862
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 3: and he slipped and we looked down and it was

863
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 3: a freaking.

864
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: Where were you?

865
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 4: Slimy?

866
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 7: They get sleepy in the world. Mine was in the

867
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 7: cafeteria in high school. Like I think it was intentional there,

868
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 7: but but but yeah, mine was a feet up in

869
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 7: the air, slipped on a banana peel and.

870
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: You have to drop out the next day? What did

871
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: you do?

872
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 10: It?

873
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 2: Was that the last day of school for you? I'll

874
00:49:52,880 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: tell you. Tell me about it, told me about it,

875
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: I know, because good news is I was able to

876
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 2: free it during the break. You guys should have heard

877
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 2: the break. Stephanie was screaming the whole time. You heard

878
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 2: it from yourself?

879
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 4: All right, listen, I have an update on this American

880
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 4: Idol contestant.

881
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: Yes, there's finally a court date. Goodness.

882
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is I mean, we'll see what happens.

883
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 4: But so the former American Idol contestant. His name is

884
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 4: Caleb Flynn, and he's been indicted now on eleven counts,

885
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 4: including aggravated murder after his wife, Ashley Finn Flynn, was

886
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 4: found dead in their Ohio home. He maintains his innocence

887
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 4: and awaits trial. But today, March thirtieth, that's today, the

888
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 4: judge in the case scheduled Caleb's trial to begin on

889
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 4: April twenty eighth, after his attorney said he is not

890
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 4: planning to file any waiver of his rights to a

891
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 4: speedy trial. So listen, this is like, this is like

892
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 4: happening very quickly.

893
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: Right.

894
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 4: Normally we have to wait what like a year, two years,

895
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 4: sometimes three years from the trial. This one's happening very

896
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 4: quickly because he's not waving his white true speedy trial.

897
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 4: And I mean, this could go in his favor or

898
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 4: this could really backfire. We're got to wait and see.

899
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 4: So if you guys don't remember, he was arrested back

900
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 4: in February after his wife, Ashley was found dead in

901
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 4: their Ohio home. He initially faced one counter of murder

902
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 4: and two counts each of felonious assault and tampering with evidence.

903
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 4: But yeah, this grand jury indictment happened on March eighteenth,

904
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 4: added some additional charges, bringing the total to eleven counts,

905
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 4: including intimidation of an attorney, victim or witness, and of

906
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 4: course the murders and whatnot I mean obviously those. The

907
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 4: indictment also cites firearm specifications, alleging he had a firearm

908
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 4: during the allegend offense.

909
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: He was booked into.

910
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 4: The Miami County Jail on February nineteenth, with the bond

911
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 4: set at two million dollars, and he pled not guilty. Ashley,

912
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 4: she's then victim in this case. She was thirty nine

913
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 4: years old and she lived in Tipsy, Ohio with her

914
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 4: husband and their two children. While this all happened, their

915
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 4: two children were asleep.

916
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 2: That's all.

917
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, he initially do you guys remember he initially reported

918
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 4: this burglary in which his wife had been shot, right,

919
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 4: But investigators determined there was no burglary, although they do

920
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 4: allege Caleb staged the scene to give the impression of

921
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 4: One court documentary this. We don't know yet, real reason here.

922
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 4: There seems to be no motive, right, we don't know, Yeah,

923
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 4: we don't know. Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping that there's

924
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 4: some kind of listen and jury's you don't have to

925
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 4: have a motive in order to cannix someone. But Jerry's

926
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 4: sure like it, you know what I mean?

927
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and this guy had a lot of

928
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 2: things going for him. I mean, remember, this is an

929
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: American Idol contestant. He was on national television. This becomes

930
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 2: your lifestyle in some ways, and you look at a

931
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: photograph of them, they look like the perfect, you know,

932
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: beautiful family. What could possibly have gone so sideways? I

933
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 2: don't know.

934
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 3: It'll come out likely in trial. Although I think this

935
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: is an interesting aside, is that Caleb Flynn, the accused,

936
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 3: he identifies as a music pastor.

937
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't know that. Yeah, what does that even mean?

938
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: I would imagine that he say taha, unless you know.

939
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was going to say, probably what you did,

940
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 7: because I looked up and saw the same thing. I

941
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 7: would imagine he's just active in his church community and

942
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 7: he is a music pastor. But that's that's about the

943
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 7: extent of what we're able to find who needs.

944
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: A pastor like that? If what he's being accused of,

945
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 2: I mean is real, next level, I mean think about

946
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 2: it too, Like this is somebody who was obviously passionate

947
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 2: about music enough so that they went on national television

948
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 2: to be discovered. This was obviously something that he was

949
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: hoping to dedicate his life to. I worked on American

950
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: Idol back in the day and again season one, so

951
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 2: definitely not this season. But it's a really big deal

952
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 2: in a great launch pad. He was recognizable in his

953
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 2: small town too, you know.

954
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely big visible right of course, Like, why would

955
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 4: this possibly turn to murder?

956
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: This is interesting.

957
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 4: So court documents are alleging that Caleb attempted to intimidate

958
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 4: a witness. Now, the murder happened on February sixteenth, okay,

959
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 4: and the dates for this intimidation of a witness are

960
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 4: February sixteenth through the eighteenth, and he was arrested on nineteenth.

961
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 4: So something happened in those three days where he was

962
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,439
Speaker 4: intimidating a witness of some kind. We're going to find

963
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 4: out and see what that's about. I thought that was interesting.

964
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 4: That is yeah, interesting, little tidbit, very very interesting, so

965
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 4: the court proceedings today. He remained silent during the hearing today.

966
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 4: His lawyer said a gag order request had been filed,

967
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,720
Speaker 4: but he asked to delay those arguments, you know, to

968
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 4: say why they needed the gag The court did set

969
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 4: a status conference for April six, which you know is

970
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 4: just the next week, to review the purple the proposed

971
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 4: gag order. The judge did instruct that the attorneys refrained

972
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 4: from speaking publicly about the case until that could be decided.

973
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 4: Ashley Finn the victim in this case. She was described

974
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 4: as carrying and dedicated mother to two daughters. She was

975
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 4: a substitute teacher. I love substitute teachers, and seventh grade volleyball. Yeah,

976
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 4: seventh grade volleyball coach, you know. And of course Caleb.

977
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 4: You know, he's the former Season twelve contestant, and he

978
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 4: identifies as this music pastor, which I don't because if

979
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 4: you know, that's right.

980
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 7: Like it's the person that kind of sets up the

981
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 7: music at church that they'll be playing at church.

982
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that he was involved with that. I'd also

983
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: be kind of curious too.

984
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 7: I'm always fascinated when they say they knew someone the

985
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 7: burglary was staged.

986
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 2: Like, what clues them to understand that? Joseph question? Oh, yeah,

987
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 2: we should ask Joseph that he has a lot to

988
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: say about staging.

989
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there was I remember early on when he

990
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 4: was first arrested, they were saying something about the garage

991
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 4: in the car. In the garage is normally where he

992
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 4: like stores his weapon apparently, and it wasn't like in

993
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 4: the car, something along these lines. But we can definitely

994
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 4: say that for Joseph like that would be definitely good.

995
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 2: That's what to talk to him about.

996
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 3: Well, if you are joining us, this is true Crime

997
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 3: tonight and we're so happy to be with you or

998
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: on iHeartRadio, I am Courtney. I'm here with Body Movement

999
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 3: and Stephanie Leidecker and we just finished talking about the

1000
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 3: former American Idol contestant Caleb Flynn, accused of murdering his wife,

1001
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 3: Ashley Chrial will be upcoming. We'll keep you abreast And

1002
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 3: in the meantime, Body has an update to another case.

1003
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Austin Drummond, do you guys remember this case?

1004
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 2: Right?

1005
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 4: So in July of twenty twenty five, right, it was

1006
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 4: during the summer in Tennessee. There were these four family

1007
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 4: members shot. Somebody walked outside their house and found a

1008
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 4: baby in their lawn and they picked up They're like,

1009
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 4: what is this baby doing here? Well, it turns out

1010
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 4: that baby belonged to one of the victims or two

1011
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 4: of the victims, the mom and dad of this baby.

1012
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 4: Four family members are shot in Lake County, Tennessee, in

1013
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 4: you know, the family's infant. It was about forty miles

1014
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 4: away where the baby was taken Austin and then there

1015
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 4: was this man hunt. Do you remember the man hunt?

1016
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 2: I do, absolutely crazy. Yeah, So he was arrested.

1017
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 4: Austin Drummond was arrested for this in early August after

1018
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 4: that manhunt, and he now faces first degree murder, vated kidnapping,

1019
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 4: and infant abandonment charges. Now, Austin's attorneys recently requested to

1020
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 4: move his trial to a different county due to local

1021
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 4: media coverage in this small population, and his next court

1022
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 4: appearance is set for May seventh. His attorney's name is

1023
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 4: Brian Huffman, and he has filed a motion for the

1024
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 4: change of venue. And here's what he said, we are

1025
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 4: looking at right now. What we're looking at right now

1026
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 4: is probably Shelby County, Huffman said he wants to make

1027
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 4: sure that a fair and impartial jury is selected and

1028
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 4: doesn't think that's possible in Lake or Dyer counties. Lake

1029
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 4: County is obviously very small, approximately sixty five hundred people

1030
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 4: in the entire county. Obviously, there's a lot of people

1031
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 4: who know everybody, some people work at the prison. So

1032
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 4: it's going to be very difficult to see a capital

1033
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 4: case jury in Lake County, is what he said. And

1034
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 4: you know what, that's proxtecution. Did not object, and the

1035
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 4: judge even said, we'll probably see this in a different county. Yeah,

1036
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 4: so it's looking like it's going to move. It's looking

1037
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 4: like it's going to move. In a document file for

1038
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 4: the change of motion, the defense team also said pervasive

1039
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 4: pre trial publicity, local, national, international, and pervasive social media coverage.

1040
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 4: The transfer is necessary to protect mister Drummond's constitutional rights

1041
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 4: to affair and a partial jury and due process. Crazy

1042
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 4: and you guys, do you guys know that he was

1043
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 4: busted in prison for contraband.

1044
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was behaving badly behind bars.

1045
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 3: He was he had some soon strips, remember, Yeah, Austin,

1046
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 3: Just real quick, Austin Drummond's girlfriend worked at the prison.

1047
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 2: The prison and her sister was one of the victims.

1048
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 4: Yes, right, so this was definitely we still don't know

1049
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 4: like why he did this, but we do know that

1050
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 4: one of the victims was the mother of the infant

1051
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 4: and the sister of his girlfriend who worked at the

1052
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 4: prison Wild Wild. So the judge said that all motions

1053
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 4: should be filed by April fifteenth, and it will be

1054
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 4: taken up for discussion on May first. So we're going

1055
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 4: to find out is the trial going to be moved

1056
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 4: and maybe we'll start getting some scheduling dates for that trial.

1057
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 4: This is a capital murder case in Tennessee.

1058
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 2: It should be I mean, this is one of those

1059
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: cases that we want to do a deeper dive on too.

1060
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 2: We've done preliminary reach out just to family members of

1061
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: this case, and I know it's an open investigation, so

1062
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 2: it's ongoing. I would assess that it will in fact

1063
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 2: have a change of venue. And again, this is one

1064
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 2: of those cases that we should watch closely.

1065
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and remember I remember when the man hunt was

1066
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 4: going on, we were covering that. Yeah, we had this

1067
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 4: scary surveillance. He was walking around with like a machine

1068
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 4: gun in people's backyards. Like looking to sleep in poolhouses

1069
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 4: and you know, sheds at people had it. It was

1070
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 4: all very scary.

1071
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 2: Listen.

1072
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 4: And there's there's four alleged accomplices too, Darah Sanders, Geovante,

1073
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 4: Thomas Eric Wise, and Michelle Ovalus. So he had four

1074
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 4: people that were helping him during all of this. I mean,

1075
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 4: these people are going to go down for helping.

1076
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: They're going to go down well.

1077
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 3: And three of them accepted plea deals and agreed to

1078
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 3: testify against him, but there was a holdout. So this

1079
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 3: will be curious to see the why as the trial unfolds.

1080
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 3: But Michelle Ovalis rejected the plea deal and requested her

1081
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 3: own trial, right.

1082
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 4: And I think she I think she's she's a female,

1083
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 4: and I think she has additional charges pending as well.

1084
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 4: I don't know what those are. If you have to

1085
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 4: know and let us know, give us a call. Eighty

1086
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 4: eight thirty one crime. But I know that she has

1087
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 4: some additional charges pending. She probably should have taken that

1088
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 4: plea deal in my opinion, I mean, listen this, You

1089
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 4: left up baby in somebody's yard after you just killed

1090
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 4: their parents and their grandparents.

1091
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: Like, don't get me st you know what I mean, yes, there.

1092
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 4: Is a special place helped this guy escape or whatever

1093
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 4: you did, right, and he's out running around with the

1094
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 4: machine gun. Dangerous guy. He was in prison before he

1095
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 4: was Do you remember all the videos that he took

1096
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 4: in prison, like when he was before and he had

1097
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 4: all the snacks all right, the snacks.

1098
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: I don't remember the snacks.

1099
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we'll keep you up to date on all

1100
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 3: of that and coming up after the break, we have

1101
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 3: Uh it's the cult case. It's a disturbing online network

1102
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 3: accused of targeting kids and manipulating them. Keep it here,

1103
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,959
Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

1104
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime to on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1105
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1106
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in and the talkbacks. They're

1107
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: coming and they're coming, keep them coming, by the way,

1108
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 2: Let's go to one right now.

1109
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 11: High ladies, a Flexi from Fort Worth, Texas. I was

1110
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 11: just listening to a lot of Times episode with David

1111
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 11: and now are talking about the seventy sixty four group. Unfortunately,

1112
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 11: this has happened to one of my daughters. She's older now,

1113
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 11: but this was about three or four years ago and

1114
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 11: she was identified by the Department of Homeland Security actually

1115
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 11: who had identified I think we'll hulp for it that

1116
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 11: was doing this like online catfish and things or snapchat

1117
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 11: and all of that stuff. And she was one of

1118
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 11: eighty plus victims identified, the youngest seeing nine years old,

1119
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 11: and she was thirteen at the time. And I just

1120
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 11: wanted to share that, like, this has been going on

1121
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 11: for so long, and it's not necessarily these expansive networks

1122
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 11: that are doing. In some cases, it's just one kid

1123
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 11: that's on the wrong dress and takes something way too

1124
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 11: far and he's now serving multiple series of stanses.

1125
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 12: He was eighteen, you are convicted.

1126
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,919
Speaker 11: He's I think he's twenty or twenty one now, who's

1127
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 11: in the rest of his life and he's in prison.

1128
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 2: Wow, you are kidding me. Can you imagine eighty people think?

1129
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to you and your family, Lexi, And I'm

1130
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,919
Speaker 2: so glad you shared. Yes, Wow, that is nice.

1131
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 4: This can happen to anybody you guys like, and this

1132
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 4: was just one person. This wasn't part of a broader group, right,

1133
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 4: This is just one person. How scary, Lexie. I'm so

1134
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 4: glad that your daughter is okay and that hopefully nothing

1135
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 4: you know happened.

1136
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

1137
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 3: Well, the talkback is also timely because we have another

1138
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 3: case we wanted to talk about. It involves a man

1139
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 3: named Caleb Christopher Merritt. He's a twenty six year old.

1140
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 3: He's out of Spring, Texas, and his online name was

1141
01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 3: E Terror. So he pleaded guilty and federal court just

1142
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 3: a couple of days ago to leading the extremist Child

1143
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 3: Exploitation Network CULT. The letters are c vias and Victor LT,

1144
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: but it's pronounced cult. And from about twenty twenty to

1145
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, Caleb Merritt and three co defendants allegedly

1146
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 3: they ran cult and it was it had underpinnings of

1147
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 3: neo fascism, and they groomed miners into producing child sexual

1148
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 3: abuse material and engaging in self harm. And the federal

1149
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 3: case builds on this guy, Caleb Merrick prior twenty twenty

1150
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 3: one conviction for abducting and raping a minor in Virginia. Wow,

1151
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 3: So the origin of this case. Caleb Merritt was twenty

1152
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 3: one at the time. He contacted a twelve year old

1153
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 3: victim online. He camped near her home in Virginia, abducted

1154
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 3: her that triggered an Amber alert and currently he's this

1155
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 3: is a little bit confusing to us. Currently, Caleb Merritt,

1156
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 3: he is in federal custody and he is serving a

1157
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 3: thirty three year prison sentence in Virginia for her abduction

1158
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 3: and rape. Okay, And then, regarding the most recent charges

1159
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 3: and the guilty plea, a US district judge scheduled sentencing

1160
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 3: for not until January seventh of next year, twenty twenty seven.

1161
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 3: And Caleb Merrett faces a twenty year mandatory minimum up

1162
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 3: to life imprisonment.

1163
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 4: So he was convicted on the charges for taking the

1164
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 4: girl and he's facing additional charges for running this I'm

1165
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 4: guessing correct?

1166
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 2: Interested Okay, okay, yep wow.

1167
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 3: And Caleb Merrett he admitted to harming at least five

1168
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 3: miners while indictment reference thirteen victims and potentially more. He

1169
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 3: has three co defendants and they're in New Jersey, Hawaii,

1170
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 3: and one in France.

1171
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 2: And the.

1172
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 3: Man in France is pending extradition. And this is important

1173
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 3: because of how decentralized these groups tend to be. As

1174
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 3: Lexi said in her talk back, it could be just

1175
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 3: one person run a mock, but these groups tend to

1176
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 3: victimize multiple multiple victims each and learn from each other

1177
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 3: on how to do further grooming, and victims were pressured

1178
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 3: into producing their own quote, gore content after being shown

1179
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 3: videos of self harm. So basically, the members of this

1180
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 3: cult would send videos horrible videos of self harm and

1181
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 3: other horrific things and then go the children into producing

1182
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 3: their own Mmmm.

1183
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 2: The gore.

1184
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that the gore stuff is what I'm familiar with,

1185
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 4: and that's where the animal abuse and whatnot, you know, occurs,

1186
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 4: and they'll you know, kill the family guinea pig or

1187
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 4: you know, something along those lines and have to film it, still,

1188
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 4: have to step on it.

1189
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: Things of those nature. Yeah, crush again, it's the same.

1190
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 2: It's the same desensitation O D sens what is the wordizations? Yeah,

1191
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:38,799
Speaker 2: that we were talking about earlier for us as adults

1192
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 2: and looking at crime scene photos for a young mind,

1193
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 2: for a child, this type of stuff is the same issue. Right,

1194
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 2: It's like stretching your boundaries in your mind. It's really

1195
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 2: hard to come back from that, and it changes your

1196
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: brain chemistry a little bit. I think that's what they

1197
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 2: want bad. Yeah, it makes me so toy.

1198
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 4: They want to create more of them this right, Yes,

1199
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 4: they want an army of them, and the way to

1200
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 4: do that is to degrade and dehumanize the children to

1201
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 4: grow up and be like them.

1202
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 2: Right, that's what they want, and Bandy here exactly right.

1203
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 3: Even the prosecutors, they said the group's goal was to

1204
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 3: create a quote army of sadist followers and to be

1205
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 3: utilizing this abuse, coercion and ideological and doctrinate nation.

1206
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: Where are their moms and dads? I was guessing, where's dad?

1207
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 2: What's going on with mom and dad and these kids?

1208
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 2: Like I really want to unpack this. I feel like

1209
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 2: we talk about it so so much that it is

1210
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 2: it feels like more of a public emergency than it does.

1211
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 2: The repeating of a story like this seems talking about it.

1212
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 2: Are you talking about mom and dad of the victims? No,

1213
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 2: mom and dad of the perpetrators of these guys that

1214
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 2: are online that are trying to convince young adults to

1215
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 2: do this. It's like a little an the next level

1216
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 2: into men.

1217
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, mom and dad could likely have

1218
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 3: zero information in this particular case. They could be one

1219
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 3: room over, they could be down the hallway, they can

1220
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 3: be sitting on the opposite couch with a family TV

1221
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 3: on because a lot of these perpetrators, they are young.

1222
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 3: This guy was twenty one. People started eighteen. Often people

1223
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:20,839
Speaker 3: start younger.

1224
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 2: The caller who just called us the perpetrator was eighteen

1225
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 2: years old, think about it and now was looking at

1226
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 2: I think she said life right, maybe multiple counts with

1227
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 2: multiple years behind bars, which seems wildly appropriate. But wow,

1228
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 2: thank goodness we're talking about it, because again this was

1229
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 2: a blind spot something that I didn't really know was so.

1230
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 3: Prevalent, unvaluable, and the ideological and doctrinization. So going back

1231
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 3: to our caller who talked about her reel, she was like,

1232
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 3: I watch on a loop people falling, and yeah, yeah, great,

1233
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 3: that's one kind of loop.

1234
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 2: You also can fall pretty.

1235
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 3: Quickly and easily, especially if you're young, into a totally

1236
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 3: other kind of real loop. And it can be on

1237
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 3: whatever different I mean sadism, and it can start very

1238
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 3: gently and just get a little more aggressive. Start with

1239
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 3: fighting videos, start with funny fighting quote, funny fighting videos,

1240
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 3: to escalate, to escalate, and.

1241
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 2: It can happen. The word sadism that just means you

1242
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 2: get pleasure out of seeing somebody else's pain. Is that

1243
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 2: an accurate definition on fraud? Isn't it. I don't know.

1244
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 4: Actually I don't know the actual definition of sadism I

1245
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 4: find out real time.

1246
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm looking it up, but I'm pretty sure it

1247
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 7: is someone that gets typically used as a term is

1248
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 7: someone gets pleasure out of seeing someone's pain.

1249
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 2: In a very damped up way, in a violence. You know,

1250
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: It's different than getting a giggle when somebody walks into

1251
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 2: a wall, you know, well, you know, accidentally, very different,

1252
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 2: or if somebody is like, oh, you did a bad

1253
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 2: thing and then oh karma, you got a bad thing

1254
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 2: happened to you. Haha.

1255
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 13: No, I think sadism is is violent. There's an current

1256
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:16,839
Speaker 13: wells they cause it. So the definition is a sadist

1257
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 13: to someone who enjoys causing pain, suffering, or humiliation. So

1258
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,600
Speaker 13: unlike the slipping videos we're talking about, they would be

1259
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 13: the one to push them or make sure that they that's.

1260
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 4: I mean, just imagine that the kids though in these situations,

1261
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 4: like they're so scared, they're they're scared to tell their parents,

1262
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 4: they're scared to follow through with whatever these people are

1263
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 4: telling them to do. They're scared in every direction, right,

1264
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 4: and they probably feel like they can't tell anybody because

1265
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 4: these jerks are probably creating images of these kids right

1266
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 4: with AI or photoshop or something and saying, look, I've

1267
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 4: got these pictures of you, and I didn't send you pictures.

1268
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 4: Well treated here they are, you know they are.

1269
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I just this.

1270
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 4: This kind of stuff is super scary to me and

1271
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 4: one of the reasons I'm so adamant about kids not

1272
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 4: being online. Listen, I'm telling you, like, these people exist,

1273
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 4: They're out there. I'm not trying to be like a

1274
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 4: doomsday or person because I am not that person in

1275
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 4: real life, but they are coming after your children, and

1276
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 4: you need to start paying attention.

1277
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, the title wave is not only coming,

1278
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 2: it's kind of here. It's here. Their proof is in

1279
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: the pudding and there is no turning back. So even

1280
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 2: the photographs that people are sharing of their kids online,

1281
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 2: trust me, I love them, but I genuinely want to

1282
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 2: see all of it. But even I've had to stop

1283
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 2: because I'm just paranoid. And it's a shame, you know, like,

1284
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,720
Speaker 2: why has the world gone so sideways? What happened to

1285
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 2: us able? You know, being able to share photographs of

1286
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 2: oh you had a baby, Oh my goodness, the cousins school,

1287
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 2: right back to school, whatever the thing is. I get

1288
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 2: like such an endorphin kick out of it too, that

1289
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,560
Speaker 2: it's how we stay right. But it's really backfired.

1290
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was probably like the the hate,

1291
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 4: the reddest time, the yes when we all were doing

1292
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 4: that and it was innocent and oh my god, that

1293
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:15,600
Speaker 4: back to school day and all the kids on the

1294
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 4: front porch with you know, there's signs kindergarten. I love those,

1295
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 4: but don't do it anymore even I mean, just listen,

1296
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 4: your kids are beautiful, I'm sure, but keep it to

1297
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 4: yourself and I and I'm sad to say that.

1298
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 2: No, I get.

1299
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a sad state of the reality that we're in.

1300
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 3: And you know, this also goes back to another thing

1301
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 3: we were talking about earlier. AI authorities are warning that

1302
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 3: AI tools are being very often used to create synthetic

1303
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 3: or manipulated explicit images of these miners absolutely horrible and

1304
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 3: a crime in and of itself, but also once they

1305
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 3: show an underage and eleven year old boy or girl

1306
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 3: and say, I'm going to send this picture to your grandma,

1307
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 3: your grandpa, and everyone at your school. So go ahead

1308
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 3: and step on that guinea pig to bring it back,

1309
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 3: and this is the actualities of what happens, as horrible

1310
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 3: as it sounds.

1311
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 2: Gets kept and the shame continues, and the cycle begins,

1312
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 2: and you're like, now the kid, I'm wrecked anyway as

1313
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 2: a kid, so now I'm damaged good, so I'm going

1314
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:28,520
Speaker 2: to pile on or maybe make another bad decision. And secrecy,

1315
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 2: you know, like it's the secrets whenever someone don't tell

1316
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 2: your mom. Tell your mom. That is not what Stephanie

1317
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 2: was not saying. That's what to do. Tell your mom.

1318
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 3: You tell you're a child listening to this, hopefully not,

1319
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 3: but you know, make sure your children know that they

1320
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 3: can talk to you, that any kind of online exploitation

1321
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:54,560
Speaker 3: is never their fault. Ever, And if you're ever in

1322
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 3: over your head, talk to a trusted adult. And then

1323
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 3: if someone pressure is a child for explicit images or

1324
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,560
Speaker 3: makes them feel unsafe, you report that immediately.

1325
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: Immediately.

1326
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 4: Let me ask you guys something as parents, because I'm

1327
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 4: not a parent, and I don't know the answer to this,

1328
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 4: but is it a good idea to tell your kids

1329
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 4: these groups exist and these are the things that they

1330
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 4: will do, or or does that scare them too much?

1331
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 2: Does that grand question go ahead, Stephanie. I just had

1332
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 2: this conversation with you know, somebody who's like an expert

1333
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 2: in this, because I've had the same crossroads, like what's

1334
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 2: the sidebar between over exposure to dark scary things because

1335
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,640
Speaker 2: you want to really preserve the innocence of being a

1336
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 2: child and not have to worry for the big, bad world,

1337
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 2: and at the same time, how do you keep your

1338
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 2: children really super informed? So I'll sort of soft launch,

1339
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 2: like on a phone call or share a story maybe

1340
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 2: about something that we're covering. Oh my goodness, I can't

1341
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 2: believe I heard that this terrible story that happened. You know,

1342
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 2: something that's fact, something that's age appropriate because it can

1343
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 2: be a little bit scary, but just the idea that

1344
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 2: somebody is phishing for, you know, for pictures from you,

1345
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 2: or goading you into thinking that there's blackmail involved, Like

1346
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 2: I don't think a kid would normally understand that. I

1347
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 2: would really be caught off guard. So I'll sometimes soft

1348
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 2: launch just some scenarios as if it's in other conversations,

1349
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 2: to not make it super scary idea, but just to

1350
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,719
Speaker 2: kind of show the world so that kids need a script.

1351
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes they need to know how to react in a

1352
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 2: scenario when they're caught off guard. I you know, I

1353
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 2: get caught off guard all the time, and if I

1354
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 2: wasn't an adult who has sort of the programming to

1355
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 2: know what to say in sticky situations. But you know,

1356
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,640
Speaker 2: really you do. To Courtney's point, and again, I'm not

1357
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 2: doeling at advice right now, I am just you know,

1358
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 2: just like the rest of us, trying our very very

1359
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 2: best to do our very very best. But from what

1360
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 2: I've learned from others is, yeah, you really want to

1361
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 2: make sure that they know, no matter what, that they

1362
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 2: can tell you anything, and that Mom's not really going

1363
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: to kill them, you know that. Like, yeah, narrative in

1364
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 2: our head is very real. As a kid, I remember

1365
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 2: it so so well, totally absolutely Wow.

1366
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 4: Well listen, if you if you want to know or

1367
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 4: have an incident, please call the No to Protect tip line.

1368
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:29,599
Speaker 4: It's eight three three five nine one five six six'

1369
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 4: Nine and stick around because we've got more to dig.

1370
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 2: Into we're going to get.

1371
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 4: Into some more of your, talkbats the funny, ones the personal,

1372
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 4: ones and the ones that completely caught us off.

1373
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 2: Guard keep you right, Here True Crime. Tonight welcome back

1374
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 2: To True crime tonight On. iHeartRadio we're talking true crime

1375
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:56,600
Speaker 2: all the. Time Stephanie, leidecker hey here of course with

1376
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 2: a razorhand body move in And Courtney armstrong two thumbs up,

1377
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 2: up two hands up in, fact and of course we Have,

1378
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 2: Taha sam And adam as. Well let's go to another talk.

1379
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 10: That hi, ladies just on The australian social media. Ban

1380
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 10: it really just hit, TikTok, Instagram snapchat and normal YouTube

1381
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 10: based in three months in the reports are coming in

1382
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,799
Speaker 10: that it has been. Beneficial forty three percent of children

1383
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:24,679
Speaker 10: have increased their in person social interactions and more Present

1384
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 10: but a lot of the older teenagers who have had

1385
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:28,560
Speaker 10: social media for a long time are getting around the.

1386
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 2: Systems so To.

1387
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 10: Stephanie's, POINT i think it's where the kids have had

1388
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 10: social media and had their account. CLOSED i think they

1389
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,599
Speaker 10: said there was something like five million accounts deactivated when

1390
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 10: it came into. Effect it's harder with the older, kids

1391
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 10: BUT i think younger kids is where we need to

1392
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 10: start the. Changes one THING i think that is different

1393
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 10: is that it's a platform to have to enforce, it

1394
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 10: but they face fines up to fifty Million australian for

1395
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:50,560
Speaker 10: letting them have.

1396
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 2: Accounts. Thanks, wow that's so exciting and inspiring to. Hear.

1397
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 2: Wonderful we knew this was going to, happen, Right like

1398
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 2: we knew that data would speak for. Itself forty three.

1399
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 2: Percent just think about. That that's. Extraordinary but, yeah this

1400
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 2: is one for the. Masses thank you for sharing. That

1401
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 2: by the, way that is so really old to. Hear it's,

1402
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 2: encouraging actually a.

1403
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 4: Little it really is a being more social and of

1404
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 4: course the older kids are going to find a way around, it,

1405
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 4: Right BUT i think, TOO i think, too that's that

1406
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:24,639
Speaker 4: social media, platforms you, know even here in The United,

1407
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,880
Speaker 4: states could be more. Proactive like you, KNOW i THINK

1408
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 4: i told you, GUYS i. Was let me go find

1409
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,880
Speaker 4: out how old you have to be to like agree

1410
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 4: to The facebook terms and? Conditions? THIRTEEN i think it's too.

1411
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 4: Young you of, course we need to terms and conditions

1412
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 4: at thirteen years old like? That, no absolutely, not you,

1413
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 4: know they shouldn't be atleast. SEVENTEEN i think at least.

1414
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 4: Seventeen that's just my, opinion don't you.

1415
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 2: Know don't come from. Me but in the same might

1416
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,840
Speaker 2: apply to being in other people's photos and. Things, again

1417
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 2: we're seeing all this facial recognition being pulled from photographs

1418
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 2: that are just. Online so here we, are you, know

1419
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 2: posting photos of you, know birthday parties and fun things

1420
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 2: because we want our friends from high school to share

1421
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 2: in the, excitement and yet all of these little faces

1422
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 2: are now being. EXPOSED i don't know the answer. HERE

1423
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,360
Speaker 2: i got, spooked SO i had to do a hard.

1424
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 2: Stop but it's really challenging because then people just think that,

1425
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 2: you're you, know fall you fell off the face of the.

1426
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 2: Earth you, know you really don't know how to keep

1427
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 2: up with people from home and.

1428
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:31,679
Speaker 3: Stuff, YEAH i don't know What i've said to, Myself

1429
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 3: and it was really it was the last couple of

1430
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:39,160
Speaker 3: months of last year WHERE i put a big bridge.

1431
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 2: Between me and Me. Armstrong you have been very low

1432
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 2: on the on the social media curve for a while,

1433
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 2: Though so for you to say you, really you really

1434
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 2: stop a stop to it doesn't post to also to

1435
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 2: know to mindless.

1436
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 3: It just BECAUSE i wasn't posting a lot didn't MEAN

1437
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 3: i wasn't crawling all over it and Wasting, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

1438
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 3: fair good.

1439
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:06,719
Speaker 2: POINT i thought you were saying you weren't going to post.

1440
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 2: ANYMORE i was, like that is none the equivalent of

1441
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 2: you know that it wouldn't. Count it's like giving up,

1442
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 2: coconut WHICH i. Detest you, KNOW i could say, that, no, no,

1443
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 2: no it was just the TIME i. WOULD i would

1444
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 2: spend a lot of. TIME i was a you, know a,

1445
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:31,599
Speaker 2: lurker but, it, YEAH i. WAS i get a lot

1446
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 2: OF i get a lot of happiness out of it

1447
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 2: WHEN i can't sleep at night AND i give a little,

1448
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 2: SCROLL i just didn't UNIQUELY i get. Joy, yeah but

1449
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 2: that is not the norm apparently. Anymore. So it brings

1450
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 2: a lot of people pain and suffering or, no and

1451
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:47,480
Speaker 2: it is definitely destroying our, brains.

1452
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 7: True and the addictive side of. It And i'm probably

1453
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 7: sharing more THAN i. Should it might kill me for.

1454
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 7: This but she got a new phone and it's one

1455
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 7: that limits the amount of apps you can, have because she,

1456
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 7: said LIKE i want to stop and. Looking so, yeah

1457
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 7: so she's actually taking that step to try to make

1458
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,559
Speaker 7: sure That i'm not on social media as, much WHICH

1459
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 7: i was LIKE i to try to do the same.

1460
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 2: THING i might follow in her, footsteps BUT i THINK

1461
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 2: i hope that she's still scoring all those newspapers though

1462
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: not not getting off of the social media.

1463
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:19,680
Speaker 11: Too.

1464
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:21,920
Speaker 2: Much but it's a fine, line like how do you

1465
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 2: stay on a map and then stay plugged into the.

1466
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 7: World, WELL i think what she's doing is keeping it

1467
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 7: just on a, laptop so it's not. Smart it's with

1468
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 7: you on like when it's time for, WORK i can

1469
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 7: search and look that, way but when it's phone, time

1470
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 7: it's just basically for.

1471
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 2: Phone SO i was like that that's a really smart.

1472
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 2: Way so it's. Alsool let me tell you this generation

1473
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:44,840
Speaker 2: At eva's, generation by the, way my nieces are the

1474
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 2: same way. Too they're so clever and. Smart, LISTEN I

1475
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 2: i'm going to speak, anecdotally was the generation of you,

1476
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 2: Know Kate moss and body shaming and we all had

1477
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:57,639
Speaker 2: to be the size this and we were in red

1478
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,280
Speaker 2: bathing suits like On, baywatch and shoving botox in our

1479
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 2: faces and fillers and you, know the filter furiated. Lives you,

1480
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 2: know this next, generation it seems certainly of women especially

1481
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:13,679
Speaker 2: that are, like you know, what that's really. Unauthentic let's

1482
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 2: get on with ourselves and let's be a little bit

1483
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 2: more smart about these. Things let's not do that. Stuff

1484
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 2: AND i think it's so encouraging or do it if

1485
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:25,519
Speaker 2: it feels, good BECAUSE i know you've said. THAT i

1486
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 2: think that's been on your mind a. Lot and you're,

1487
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:29,640
Speaker 2: like and the botox stop dyeing the. Hair AND i

1488
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 2: don't know if it feels good to, you get after.

1489
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 3: It anything that makes you feel, better or walking around

1490
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 3: your house and walking out of the door to see.

1491
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,560
Speaker 7: People, yeah whatever makes you happy to be your authentic,

1492
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 7: self and however that is.

1493
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 2: For, you however botox they may be for. You, No

1494
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 2: i'm just, saying even with the, botox like that started

1495
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 2: way too, early looking, back like what WAS i? Thinking you,

1496
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 2: Know i'm just, saying like the world got away a little.

1497
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 2: Bit so this is sort of the recalibration. Time everybody

1498
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 2: can do whatever they. Want they just shouldn't feel like

1499
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 2: backed into a. Corner you know that age of. Aquarius

1500
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 2: this is the age of. RECALIBRATION i think this is

1501
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 2: what we are right. Now, Right this is stuff is

1502
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 2: just cutting out of the. Closets, yes let's do, it you,

1503
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 2: know because, again like we didn't know the rules to

1504
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 2: some of this. Stuff so, yes the team has changed

1505
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 2: a little, bit so therefore the rules have to shift

1506
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 2: a little bit, too and we're capable of. It the world,

1507
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 2: changes we change with. It, baby let's do. It let's,

1508
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 2: charge let's do. It we're not going to make a

1509
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,600
Speaker 2: song to another talk. Together, yeah let's do.

1510
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 12: That, hi, guys this Is andrea From. INDIANA i just

1511
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 12: got my sweatshirt And i'm so. Happy it's so well

1512
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,120
Speaker 12: made and cozy And i'm just so happy walking around in.

1513
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 12: It AND i also wanted to tell, you, guys please

1514
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 12: let's not stop talking ABOUT. Etem we need to talk

1515
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,719
Speaker 12: about this every. Day we need to ask more, questions

1516
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 12: we need to bring out more. Points they're trying to

1517
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:57,720
Speaker 12: get us to forget about it or just kind of

1518
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 12: get over, it and we. Can't AND i would also

1519
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 12: want to if there's any sort of call to action

1520
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 12: that you recommend for us to, do if we want

1521
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 12: to reach out to someone to complain about this lack of,

1522
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 12: accountability you know what the average person can. Do, thanks,

1523
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 12: guys love, You, oh we love you right.

1524
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 2: Well that such a good. Question, yeah listen to me

1525
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:20,959
Speaker 2: in that fine line about how do we Cover epstein

1526
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 2: because sometimes it's like too yuck and too, Much but

1527
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 2: at the same, time we cannot fall asleep at the

1528
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 2: wheel on this. One. AGAIN i think it's the largest

1529
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:33,600
Speaker 2: conversation of our. GENERATION i cannot say that. Enough and

1530
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 2: now we're seeing stuff that is so outrageous and so,

1531
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 2: egregious and everybody is sort of looking the other way

1532
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 2: because the world's gotten so. Busy it's a key understatement

1533
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,479
Speaker 2: of a, lifetime And i'm not sure how to navigate.

1534
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 2: THAT i do know that there's real action happening behind the,

1535
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 2: scenes and that THE doj is in fact continuing to

1536
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 2: have key people face the music and continue their. Interviews

1537
01:26:59,200 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 2: but to what, End because, again some of the things

1538
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 2: that we're, seeing there are women even walking the earth

1539
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 2: right now who were perpetrators, themselves who were benefiting financially

1540
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 2: in extremely big. Ways, again no. Accountability where Is epstein's

1541
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 2: girlfriend that he left his entire life, too all of

1542
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 2: that money one hundred million? Bucks where is? She where

1543
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 2: Is bank Of? America last week we talked about, it

1544
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 2: BUT i feel like we were the only ones discussing.

1545
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 2: It seventy two point five million dollars in payouts last

1546
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:36,000
Speaker 2: week By bank Of america To epstein survivors because they

1547
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 2: overlooked and looked the other way for the many red

1548
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 2: flags when it came to child. Trafficking think about. That

1549
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 2: who pays seventy five zero point five million dollars last.

1550
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:50,719
Speaker 2: Week very little coverage on it in the mainstream. Media true,

1551
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 2: enough just now did you hear about? It so it's

1552
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 2: happening behind the. Scenes people are getting. Quieted and by the,

1553
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 2: way because of That Bank. America so That bank Of

1554
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,840
Speaker 2: america settle Meant Leon, black who we've talked about here

1555
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 2: many many. Times he was supposed to be deposed in

1556
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 2: that said lawsuit With bank Of. America and because they,

1557
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 2: settled he'll never have to make a. Deposition so, again

1558
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 2: all of these workarounds to say that there is This epstein.

1559
01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 2: CLASS i believe this in my. Heart there is An

1560
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 2: epstein class of elites that are sort of running the

1561
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 2: game right. Now we don't know If epstein wasn't selling

1562
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,799
Speaker 2: arms at a very real. Level we don't know exactly

1563
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:32,600
Speaker 2: who he was a double agent. For we have no

1564
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:37,519
Speaker 2: idea all of those storage, facilities the worldwide. Laundering why

1565
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 2: was he At Saint John's Little Saint john's to begin,

1566
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 2: with probably for tax evasion. Purposes why is there no

1567
01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 2: accountability even from the financial. Requirements why are any of

1568
01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 2: the players that we see when we will look at

1569
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 2: we look at our current administration and we see people,

1570
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:55,720
Speaker 2: talking many of the players are in the, room and

1571
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 2: there's not a blip about. It and it doesn't make

1572
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 2: me feel good to say that it's. Bummer it breaks

1573
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 2: my heart.

1574
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:05,040
Speaker 7: Out, well to answer her, question one thing you can

1575
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 7: do is you can contact your members Of congress, directly

1576
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 7: and you can especially contact those who are connected to

1577
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 7: the oversight or judiciary. Committees but just continue to ask

1578
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:20,799
Speaker 7: for continued investigation and transparency because the key is public

1579
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:24,840
Speaker 7: pressure and all of us staying informed and continuing talking about.

1580
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,759
Speaker 2: It so you have one, thousand one thousand plus victims

1581
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:33,280
Speaker 2: who have yet to have any. Accountability they have been proven.

1582
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:38,439
Speaker 2: Correct we know for a, fact literally corroborated that many

1583
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 2: of the things that were denied by THE doj in et,

1584
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,920
Speaker 2: cetera have been proven to be true through these. Files

1585
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:47,639
Speaker 2: and it's just like a blip And i'm not quite

1586
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 2: sure what it, is And i'm feeling it. MYSELF i

1587
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 2: Think i'm personally so heartbroken that so many of the

1588
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 2: people THAT i admire and look up to a're sort

1589
01:29:57,160 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 2: of entangled in This AND i don't know what to put.

1590
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 2: THAT i don't even know what the answer is past

1591
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 2: THAT i do know that collectively we have the, answer

1592
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:07,880
Speaker 2: and that we're all sort of getting out of the

1593
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 2: shotgun off phase and now should get productive and start

1594
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:13,800
Speaker 2: thinking about what do we really need to do to

1595
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 2: do a take back? Here because something. Right so one other.

1596
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 3: Thing if you're looking for a single actionable Thing World

1597
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 3: Without exploitation Dot, org.

1598
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:27,880
Speaker 2: It's pretty.

1599
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,120
Speaker 3: Interesting it has tons of, Information it has next steps

1600
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:34,560
Speaker 3: that you can take depending upon what you want to,

1601
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 3: do whether it's, monetary whether it's with your.

1602
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 2: Time and This i'm just finding out right. NOW i

1603
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:41,360
Speaker 2: guess that there is.

1604
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:46,400
Speaker 3: A Big World Without exploitation conference happening In, washington D.

1605
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 2: C Between june seventh and ninth of this, year and

1606
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:56,360
Speaker 2: anyway world is that Exposition than, that it goes even

1607
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 2: harder because it's actually affecting every single one of us

1608
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 2: on a Daily it's one thing, too as we have

1609
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 2: the thousand plus survivors who have been silenced and ignored

1610
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 2: and have yet to see, justice and then parallel conversation

1611
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 2: in the same parallel set of files that we were

1612
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 2: told by so many people didn't even exist and that

1613
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 2: there was nothing to see in. Them trust, me there's

1614
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:23,840
Speaker 2: so much to see in. Them it's actually staggering to

1615
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,440
Speaker 2: suggest that so many of the things that we're dealing with, financially,

1616
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 2: tariffs at our bottom, line, financially, emotionally they're all being

1617
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 2: affected by these same people who are pulling the. Strings

1618
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 2: so we really do need to dig in a to

1619
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 2: get justice for the people who have been exposed to

1620
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 2: this monster who's somehow infiltrated every corner of the. World

1621
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 2: but also it's affecting us globally right, now and big

1622
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 2: decisions are being made in the world right now that

1623
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 2: may be involved with some of this. Stuff i'm frightened

1624
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:03,200
Speaker 2: to even say. It i'm scared to hear. IT i mean,

1625
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:05,759
Speaker 2: seriously SO i said, it AND i am not, suicidal

1626
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:08,560
Speaker 2: but you, know it's, scary right AND i feel like

1627
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 2: there's you, know since The bill And Hillary clinton testified Before,

1628
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 2: CONGRESS i, mean we've Had venezuela has been taken, Over

1629
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 2: we've had a war started in multiple. Places it seems

1630
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:20,400
Speaker 2: like so many things have happened since. Then, yeah The

1631
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 2: epstein files seem small comparatively, speaking YET ai is taking over.

1632
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 2: Data you, know centers are popping up all over the.

1633
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 2: Country it's. Hard Bill gates Elon. Musk all the players

1634
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 2: that are somehow in This epstein class are still benefiting

1635
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:38,000
Speaker 2: in the largest ways behind the, scenes while we're all

1636
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:38,879
Speaker 2: looking in an opposite.

1637
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 4: Direction, well because they know it's hard for us to

1638
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 4: concentrate on something that happened in the past when we're

1639
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:48,720
Speaker 4: worried about like paying getting bread and paying our bill

1640
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:51,519
Speaker 4: and exactly and you know WHAT i, mean they know.

1641
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 2: It's exact by the, Way, yeah you're, right you, know

1642
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:57,800
Speaker 2: and be taken away as women and suddenly we don't

1643
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 2: have any reproductive, whites and suddenly we have ability to

1644
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:04,280
Speaker 2: afford our own kids vote or a. Vote you, know

1645
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 2: there's some real stuff THAT i think we have to

1646
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 2: start paying attention. To right in the. Military it seems

1647
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 2: like six degrees of you, Know. Epstein, yeah you, KNOW

1648
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:17,719
Speaker 2: i know we can do. BETTER i JUST i WISH

1649
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 2: i came to the carpet with something really. ACTIONABLE i

1650
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 2: want to answer that question with you know what we

1651
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:26,160
Speaker 2: got to. Do we got to band together and do,

1652
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:29,880
Speaker 2: this And i'm not sure, yet which is why SOMETIMES

1653
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 2: i think we get speaking for, myself lost in the

1654
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 2: sauce on how to cover.

1655
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:33,439
Speaker 5: It.

1656
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,559
Speaker 3: WELL i think it's the continued demand which did bring

1657
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 3: forth The, act The Initial Congressional, act The demand For,

1658
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 3: transparency because without, that nothing else will.

1659
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 2: Happen and nothing has happened, though not a single thing

1660
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 2: in The United. States do you think?

1661
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 10: So?

1662
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 2: Yes because, OH i think it. WILL i think these

1663
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:00,160
Speaker 2: files are just getting, started AND i think it's like

1664
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:02,960
Speaker 2: the biggest mic. Drop BECAUSE i do, things things will

1665
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 2: still come. Out in my humble, opinion that's the. Best

1666
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 2: i'm going to put my hope in. That, yeah, wow

1667
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,559
Speaker 2: oh my. Gosh, WELL i mean there's that song. Again

1668
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:16,680
Speaker 2: well listen. Tomorrow you got to stick with us On

1669
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:19,919
Speaker 2: tuesday Because Joseph scott Morgan, o our most favorite forensics,

1670
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 2: expert will be. Here The Long island serial. Killer my,

1671
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 2: goodness is he going to take a plea. Deal we're

1672
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 2: going to unpack that in so much. More great, night,

1673
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 2: everybody stay safe out. There good, night