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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's The Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Verducci

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Speaker 1: and my good friend Joe Madden and Joe the minute

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Speaker 1: that kind of call it nonsense or excitement, whatever your

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Speaker 1: point of view is, happened in the ALCS Game five.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't wait to talk to you about it.

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Speaker 1: As a guys, I know you've been thrown out of

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Speaker 1: at least one postseason game.

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Speaker 2: You know how the thing can get hot and heavy.

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Speaker 1: That was an all time postseason emotional, energizing, entertaining game.

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Speaker 2: I put it up there with Joey Bautista.

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Speaker 1: Batflip game up in Toronto in twenty fifteen Rangers Blue Jays. Boy,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to dive into this, So we have

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Speaker 1: to start right there, Joe. I know we'll get around

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Speaker 1: to talking about Arizona and Philadelphia, but my goodness, that

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Speaker 1: was the game of the postseason so far. And first

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Speaker 1: I want to get your take because I think we

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Speaker 1: might be disagreeing on what happened there.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean, obviously it's set up by the

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Speaker 3: home run, and that was That's fine. Somebody hits home

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Speaker 3: run but then obviously it was the reaction to the

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Speaker 3: home run from Garcia that really set all of the

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Speaker 3: wheels in motion. I still am of the ilk that

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Speaker 3: I that celebration that he demonstrated right there would be

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Speaker 3: fine with me if it occurred as a walk up

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Speaker 3: and the game was over. But if you do it

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Speaker 3: during the course of the game, there's still enough old

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Speaker 3: school sensibilities involved in our game that you've got to

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Speaker 3: be heads up things. Things may happen afterwards to you

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Speaker 3: or somebody else. It's over the top, and I listen,

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Speaker 3: I'm all about celebrating achievement, and I've talked about it

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Speaker 3: all the time, all the time, but there's something to

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Speaker 3: be said of there's a certain decorm involved where there

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Speaker 3: is a certain amount of respect for the game, for yourself,

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Speaker 3: for the opposition, et cetera. So yeah, be happy. I

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Speaker 3: watched Werber hit his bomb, I watched Harper hit his bomb,

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Speaker 3: and how they went around the basis came back end.

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Speaker 3: It might have been a stare here or there, but

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Speaker 3: uh going to dug out, check everybody's hands and sit down.

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Speaker 3: I still like that method the best. I think it's

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Speaker 3: the right way to do things. Like I said, you

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Speaker 3: want to be over the top celebratory, Fine, but wait

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Speaker 3: at BET's the walk off, roll baby, roll, go for it.

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Speaker 1: So when you're watching, when you're watching that game on television,

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Speaker 1: you think that the Astros retaliated through him on purpose

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Speaker 1: because the way he celebrated the home run. Correct, of course, absolutely, yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think you're a hundred percent wrong.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: First of all, what he what Garcia did there that

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Speaker 1: happens all the time in today's game. The Astros literally

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Speaker 1: had no problem with what he did. He did not

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Speaker 1: direct anything towards the Astros dugout. He hit what Jose

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Speaker 1: Brady said was the biggest home run of his life,

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Speaker 1: which is true. Justin Verlander is forty years old, who's

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Speaker 1: been the game longer than him right now, had no

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Speaker 1: problem with the celebration. So it was a hit, the best,

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Speaker 1: the biggest home run the guy's ever hit it up

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Speaker 1: and down the clubhouse. No one had a problem with

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Speaker 1: what he did. Martin mal Nawa said, he didn't even

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Speaker 1: see what he did. And if you see the replace,

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Speaker 1: he's not even near home plate as Garcia stomps on

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Speaker 1: home plate.

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Speaker 2: So we've got that to me, that was ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's over the top the way the game is now,

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Speaker 1: see it all the time, no problem with it. You

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Speaker 1: want to celebrate, go ahead and celebrate it, just don't

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Speaker 1: put it in the face of the other team. He

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Speaker 1: did not do that, all right. Now we get to

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Speaker 1: that situation. Garcia comes up for the first time after

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Speaker 1: that huge three run Homer gets hit with ninety eight

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Speaker 1: ninety nine up and in looks bad.

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Speaker 2: Granted, give you that totally. There is no way, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm playing an American League Championship Series game five

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Speaker 1: winn of that game is one went away from the

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Speaker 1: World Series. I'm down by two runs. There's already a

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Speaker 1: runner on base. There's no way I'm putting another runner

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Speaker 1: on base with nobody out for the sake of a

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Speaker 1: petty argument. Adops saving that one for next April or May,

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Speaker 1: for a game that doesn't count. So there's no way

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Speaker 1: a bread who was going in danger putting another run

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Speaker 1: around base and letting this game get out of hand.

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Speaker 1: What you're doing right there is you're saying, our petty

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Speaker 1: little disagreement about some home run celebration which they actually

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Speaker 1: didn't have, is bigger than trying to win an American

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Speaker 1: League championship game. And that's why James Hoy the umpiring

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Speaker 1: crew were absolutely wrong. It looked bad, Yes, it looked bad.

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Speaker 1: If you go back to your little umpiring manual on

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Speaker 1: a hit by pitches after home runs, you say, you

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Speaker 1: know what, he must have done that on purpose, and

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Speaker 1: HOI told Alex Bregman, Hey, that was a hit by

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Speaker 1: pitch after a three run homer by the other team's

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Speaker 1: best player. Well yeah, on the face of it, but

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Speaker 1: think about the situation, dude.

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Speaker 2: It's the American League Championship Series.

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Speaker 1: I can honestly tell you, in all my years of

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Speaker 1: covering baseball, I have never seen a team go out

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Speaker 1: a hitter intentionally in the postseason. You are not going

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Speaker 1: to risk a suspension, which then brianon brew has got

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Speaker 1: he's going to appeal. We'll see what happens. But there's

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Speaker 1: no way he's trying to hit him. Given the game importance.

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Speaker 1: I just don't understand it. If you're the umpire there,

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Speaker 1: you have to think about these things. You just can't

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Speaker 1: treat the game like it's April. I'm telling you there's

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Speaker 1: no way that Brian and Bray, you who walked the

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Speaker 1: first batter. By the way, already put a guy in

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Speaker 1: base with a walk. He's trying to go up and in.

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Speaker 1: You need to pitch Garcia. If fastballs up and in

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Speaker 1: sliders down in a way, why in the world would

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Speaker 1: they hit him? Did you listen to Bruce bochie after

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Speaker 1: the game? Bruce Brocchi basically said, well, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened. Listen, you know, Joe, if one of your

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Speaker 1: players thinks he got hit intentionally, you got to bat

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Speaker 1: him up. If you think, and you're Bruce brochiere in

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Speaker 1: the game for fifty sixty years, you think that was intentional,

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Speaker 1: you will say that was intentional. He did not say that.

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Speaker 1: Joonahein the catcher said, we don't know if it was

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Speaker 1: intentional or not, but it looked bad.

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Speaker 2: Come on, you can't throw.

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Speaker 1: A guy out of the game because something looked intentional.

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Speaker 1: The best thing to do there, if you're James hoy

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Speaker 1: is just let it play out. Let Garcia have his moment. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the bench is emptied. Restore calm. You cannot in a

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Speaker 1: postseason game throughout a cleanup hitter, a manager and the

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Speaker 1: best setup reliever for the other team. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: World Series being decided. Alex Bragman told James Hoy, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we play our whole lives to have a chance to

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Speaker 1: go to the World Series. You have to think about that.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to risk anything and miss that out

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Speaker 1: on that chance. And I think they didn't look at

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Speaker 1: the situation that the World Series was on the line,

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Speaker 1: not a petty argument which didn't even exist. By the way,

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Speaker 1: did it look bad, Yes, there's no question that looked bad,

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Speaker 1: But there's no way give it. It's a postseason situation

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Speaker 1: that they're trying to go right after Garcia and hit him.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe.

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Speaker 3: That that's a lot going on there, Tubby.

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Speaker 2: But it is a lot. But I got fired up.

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Speaker 1: I hate to see postseason games decided with, you know,

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Speaker 1: taking people off the field, managers and players when it

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Speaker 1: was not clear that it happened.

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Speaker 3: Well, I listen, I'm good with that. I'm good with

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Speaker 3: not taking people up the field. But I still believe

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Speaker 3: it happened on purpose.

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Speaker 2: I do, But why Joe? Why would he hit him?

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Speaker 2: They didn't have a problem with the celebration.

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Speaker 3: They say that they have to say that in order

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Speaker 3: to be able to cover themselves to not get the

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Speaker 3: guy suspended afterwards. It's just the way you talk after

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Speaker 3: a game like that. You're to defend one another. There's

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Speaker 3: no question about it. I get all of that, and

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Speaker 3: I probably we would have done the same thing had

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Speaker 3: it been my team. I don't even know that. I

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Speaker 3: would not say that Dusty asked them to do that,

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Speaker 3: but somebody among the group might have said something because

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Speaker 3: it was just way too obvious to me what had happened.

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Speaker 3: And again I'm not advocating or not advocating for it.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying when I thought I saw it. And furthermore,

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Speaker 3: like you're saying, okay, the suspension and there is the

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Speaker 3: potential for it to be reviewed, etc. In my mind's eye,

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Speaker 3: the right thing to do would be if in fact

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Speaker 3: there is a suspension, to put it off to the

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Speaker 3: next season. If in fact, if at this point, if

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Speaker 3: people have had a chance to think about it, in

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Speaker 3: a sense, cooler heads would prevail. But yeah, I thought

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Speaker 3: it was absolutely intentional, And I know what everybody's saying.

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Speaker 3: I get it. Like I said, I've been there, done that.

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Speaker 3: You're always trying to protect your guy in a moment

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Speaker 3: like that. Based on this and we don't want anybody

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Speaker 3: suspend it. We have to we have to be unified

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Speaker 3: in our approach right here, we have to say the

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Speaker 3: same things. And you know, from the other manager's side,

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Speaker 3: you know, you're right, I probably would have said it

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Speaker 3: was intentional or Buach did not. But nevertheless, I still

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Speaker 3: believe it was intentional. Like I'm saying, I think, uh

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Speaker 3: regarding a bray you uh, the way that he uh

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Speaker 3: what's his name? Garcia turned on Maldonado and they started

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Speaker 3: getting each other's face obviously from the beginning, and had

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Speaker 3: how it had happened as he came around for the

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Speaker 3: home run previous to that. It was all there. It

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Speaker 3: was all there. So yeah, I passionately, which you said

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Speaker 3: is absolutely correct, But I also believe that there's another

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Speaker 3: layer of truth to this whole thing. He did throw

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Speaker 3: him at him on purpose. They did not expect the

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Speaker 3: reaction by the umpire, suspensions, et cetera. But it happened,

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Speaker 3: and now I think they need to come back and

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Speaker 3: review it properly and push this off to the next season.

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Speaker 3: That's what I think's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's what's gonna happen. A brave is going to appeal.

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Speaker 1: He's got it has to be heard within forty eight hours.

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Speaker 1: By the way, it's not like during a regular season

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Speaker 1: guys right wait like three months until they're on the

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Speaker 1: il to take their suspension or whatever.

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Speaker 2: So he's going to appeal.

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Speaker 1: I believe he's gonna get it knocked down to one game,

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Speaker 1: so I think he's going to be available for six

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Speaker 1: and if there's a game seven here in the ALCS.

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Speaker 2: But he is looking at a postseason suspension.

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Speaker 1: They will not hold this in abeyance until the next

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Speaker 1: regular season, which really stinks. I mean, that shouldn't happen,

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Speaker 1: but that's the way the protocol is. I can't see

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Speaker 1: it going away. We'll see I think it should go away.

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Speaker 1: There's no way he should be suspended. To me, there's

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Speaker 1: no no way. And again, Joe, I'm sorry, this is

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Speaker 1: the postseason. I've never seen teams go ahead hunting in

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Speaker 1: the postseason, especially when it's a two run game in

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Speaker 1: the eighth inning and you already have a runner on base.

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Speaker 1: It's not a huge argument. They did not have a

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Speaker 1: problem with Garcia what he I didn't have a problem

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Speaker 1: did anybody when Garcia did what he did?

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Speaker 2: Say Ooh, he's gonna get thrown at his next time up.

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Speaker 1: No, because it's the emotion of a postseason It wasn't

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Speaker 1: over the top, It wasn't directed to the Astros. The

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Speaker 1: Astros are trying to win a freaking postseason game.

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Speaker 2: That's what matters.

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Speaker 3: I agree, one hundred percent agree. However, regardless of all

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Speaker 3: that a beautiful logic that you're presenting, and I cannot

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Speaker 3: disagree with you. I still think it happened. They weren't

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Speaker 3: expecting the reaction that they got, and they did. Everything

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Speaker 3: came down the way it did come down, Like you're saying,

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Speaker 3: I hope if it is a one game suspension only,

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Speaker 3: they're gonna have to determine whether or not. Obviously, like

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Speaker 3: if you play that game the next game and the

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Speaker 3: Astles are way up, or in a situation where they're losing,

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Speaker 3: a Braille could be safe for the last game, or

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Speaker 3: do they have to pick where they have to pick

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Speaker 3: a game that he's unavailable for in advance.

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Speaker 2: No, they can't pick it.

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Speaker 1: He has to go down as soon as the appeal

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Speaker 1: is heard and it's ruled on. So my guess is

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Speaker 1: he'll appeal, Dusty Baker will use him for two.

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Speaker 3: It exactly. He might start six.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking he might listen, might listen b seven. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back to the Rangers side of this thing though.

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Speaker 1: But again, if I'm the Rangers and I absolutely know

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Speaker 1: my heart of heart, someone was throwing up my cleanup hitter,

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Speaker 1: there's no question when you asked me about the game,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, darn right, that was intentional. I'm saying the

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Speaker 1: same things you're saying. First, Boach, you didn't say that.

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Speaker 1: Jonahyme didn't say that. They all agreed it looked bad.

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Speaker 3: They're just saving it for later, man, that's all. It's

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Speaker 3: all part of it.

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Speaker 1: Here's the other part, Joe, listen, I get it with Garcia,

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Speaker 1: and nobody wants to get hit by ninety eight upstairs, right.

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Speaker 2: It looks bad.

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Speaker 1: You're angry, it's in his own mind. He just hit

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Speaker 1: a three red homeword to put his team ahead his

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Speaker 1: last time up.

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Speaker 2: I get that.

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Speaker 1: You deserve to, you know, blow up, yell something at Maldonado, whatever,

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Speaker 1: you got to end it right there, man, I mean

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Speaker 1: he kept it going. If he then puts the bad down,

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Speaker 1: walks the first base, glares at a bray, you saying

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Speaker 1: you can't get under my skin.

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Speaker 2: I think the Rangers win the game.

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Speaker 3: It's possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, all heckbro loose because he went after Maldonado,

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Speaker 1: had to be separated by Marvin Hudson.

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Speaker 2: Now you have the benches emptying.

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Speaker 1: Now, Jose Leclerk is sitting for twenty five minutes before

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Speaker 1: he goes back to the mountain.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, game switch.

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Speaker 2: The whole game switched. And I can tell you this.

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Speaker 1: I'm down there with Fox at the Astros side.

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Speaker 2: I'm not literally in their dugout.

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Speaker 1: I can honestly tell you that dugout after the Presley

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Speaker 1: gets out of that eighth inning was louder than it

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Speaker 1: was all night long. They're bagging on benches, they're yelling

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Speaker 1: at one another. I'm telling you that that inning, that

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Speaker 1: half inning fired up the Houston Astros. Doesn't mean they

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Speaker 1: win the game, no, but I can honestly tell you

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Speaker 1: there was more emotion in that team after that half

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Speaker 1: fitting now than I had seen the entire night. Not

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Speaker 1: that they were down, but I'm telling you they hit

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Speaker 1: an extra level because of that. So Garcia puts his

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Speaker 1: bat down, goes to first base. We're not talking about

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Speaker 1: any ofthing you're right, one hundred percent right. But it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen that way.

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Speaker 3: And the whole point is that the argument is whether

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Speaker 3: or not it was intentional or not. It primarily starts

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Speaker 3: right there. What you're saying is absolutely right. But I

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Speaker 3: also believe that he did get hit on purpose. I

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Speaker 3: don't know that he wanted to throw up and in

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Speaker 3: like that, which possibly would have retailed the emotion on

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Speaker 3: Garcia's part a little bit, but it just I think

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Speaker 3: just that that's just what happened. Nobody was thinking properly

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Speaker 3: at that point. Everybody was working off emotion, very visceral moment,

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Speaker 3: very difficult to control yourself at that point, even though

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Speaker 3: you need to. I get all that, I get all that,

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Speaker 3: But that's what I thought I saw, And the final

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Speaker 3: point would be that hope. I wish that they had

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Speaker 3: done a better job of legislating afterwards regarding like suspensions,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, because I Brayia is that important to this,

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Speaker 3: to this team, in this group, and you're right, you

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Speaker 3: get a chance to get to the World Series, and frequently,

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Speaker 3: unless you are the Astros, you get it almost annually.

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Speaker 3: But it's a it's a tough moment. Again, I know

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Speaker 3: what I saw, what I thought I saw, But everything

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Speaker 3: else you're talking about I cannot argue with I Just

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Speaker 3: it happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I have tremendous respect for umpires, and I

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Speaker 1: think they've the whole postseason, they've really done a great job.

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Speaker 1: But man, this is a huge mistake in my book.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't again, you can't take players and

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Speaker 1: managers off the field for this in the postseason situation

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Speaker 1: where what happened was I'm going to tell you that

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Speaker 1: it was not intentional, but I will tell you I'll

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Speaker 1: give you the fact that it looked bad.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, there's no question about it.

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Speaker 1: I could see why people did think it was intentional,

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Speaker 1: as you do. I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is the umpires here have to let it play out.

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Speaker 1: They got control of the situation play on.

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Speaker 3: Did the MB office comment on all this, how the

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Speaker 3: Empire's handled did it all or well?

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Speaker 1: They backed them up because the Empires did follow protocol

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Speaker 1: where they got together, all six of them in this case,

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Speaker 1: basically said what do you have here? And they all

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Speaker 1: came to the conclusion that because Garcia hit the home

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Speaker 1: run and because I'm guessing there was an incident back

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Speaker 1: in July between the Rangers and the But basically it's

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Speaker 1: because and HOI told Alex Pregnant this, the guy, the

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Speaker 1: clean up hitter for the Rangers, hit a home run

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Speaker 1: his last time up three year on homer.

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Speaker 2: He comes up next time, he gets hit up and in.

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Speaker 1: It's also by the way, as you know, Joe, it's

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Speaker 1: the location of the pitch and he hits in the

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Speaker 1: hip in a leake.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about any of this.

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Speaker 1: They're very sensitive to injury, the potential of injury, so

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Speaker 1: that's a huge part of this as well. But it's

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Speaker 1: simply the matter of plugging in two and two into

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Speaker 1: the computer and getting four here.

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Speaker 2: There's not any to me.

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Speaker 1: They're not weighing the importance of the game in the

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Speaker 1: postseason situation. Again, I've looked at this in my own mind.

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Speaker 1: I've looked things up about postseason suspensions. I can't find

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Speaker 1: anything where a pitcher through was judged to throw intentionally

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Speaker 1: at a batter in a postseason game. Never, So that's

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Speaker 1: my issue with the umpires. I think they went by

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Speaker 1: the book and not by the field of the situation,

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Speaker 1: and now it's impacting probably at least one postseason game,

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Speaker 1: and that shouldn't happen.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, Dusty Big twenty six years.

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Speaker 1: Managing in the big leagues more than four thousand games,

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Speaker 1: been thrown out of a game twenty six times. He

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Speaker 1: didn't lose it too often. And I've never seen him

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Speaker 1: as livid as he was when that call was made.

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Speaker 1: So listen again, if I had Bruce Bochie after the

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Speaker 1: game saying it was definitely intentional, yeah, I might think

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Speaker 1: it was. But when I heard Bruce Brocchie equivocate on

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Speaker 1: whether it was intentional or not, I was like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, these umpires made a mistake.

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Speaker 3: Final point Astro's win, you know, the rallying cry of

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Speaker 3: the point that the emotion came back in their favor. Again,

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Speaker 3: you think about this stuff all the time. Was an

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Speaker 3: intentionally set up to do that? Obviously, of course not.

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Speaker 3: But however, the fact that they did kind of stick

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Speaker 3: up for one another that almost never fails within the group,

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Speaker 3: whether they were win that game or win the next

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Speaker 3: couple of games when they got back home, it's just

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Speaker 3: it's interesting to see that they're in such a dire

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Speaker 3: situation and they came back and won, and like you said,

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Speaker 3: after Presley gets out of that inning, the emotion within

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Speaker 3: the dugout. There's got to be something to that too.

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Speaker 1: By the way, you have to tell the story about

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Speaker 1: what you were thrown out of a postseason game.

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Speaker 2: You think it was twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: You're playing the Dodgers and there was a strikeout and

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Speaker 1: I believe it was the left field umpire actually said

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Speaker 1: the ball was tipped.

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Speaker 2: It hit the ground, so it was not a strike three.

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Speaker 1: The original call was that it was swinging miss strike three,

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Speaker 1: and Dave Roberts came out and they wanted to check

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Speaker 1: on it, and the umpires overturned the call.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that?

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Speaker 3: I don't. The one I remember is I got kicked

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Speaker 3: up by Jimmy Wolf in a game at Tampa Bay.

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Speaker 3: I thought that was a Was that not a playoff game?

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Speaker 3: When Jimmy Wolf kicked me out?

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Speaker 1: It might have been one too. I was thinking, this

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Speaker 1: is that Wrigley Field. Curtis Granderson batting for the Dodgers. Okay,

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Speaker 1: swings and misses, and he was clear he missed the pitch.

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Speaker 1: There was no foul tip, the ball hit the ground

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Speaker 1: and the catcher's glove so it was strike three. It was

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Speaker 1: called that way, and they actually appealed, and I think

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Speaker 1: it was either the third base or the left field

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Speaker 1: umpire said, you know what he did, tip the ball.

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Speaker 1: That's not strike three. You immediately I think you were

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Speaker 1: thrown out.

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Speaker 3: Like I think I remember that, but I don't have

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Speaker 3: I don't have it ordered. I don't have the total

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Speaker 3: I don't have the total context.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, listen, that's the whole point. I mean you have.

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Speaker 3: You're just reacting. It's not like it's a playoff game,

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Speaker 3: or it's not a playoff game. It's not like you're

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Speaker 3: ready to go to World Series. You're not ready to

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Speaker 3: go to World Series. Under those circumstances, I would need

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Speaker 3: really pretty much need like your bench coach to grab

401
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Speaker 3: you or like in a situation like that with Dusty

402
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Speaker 3: or a bray you, whatever, somebody's got to grab you

403
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Speaker 3: or like in advance of that moment and say, listen,

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Speaker 3: next time this dude comes up. I know how upset

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Speaker 3: you might be, but let's we're not going to do this.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to do this today. You have to

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Speaker 3: remind it of that sometimes because if you go out

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Speaker 3: there with your own thoughts and you just left your

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Speaker 3: own devices and again you're just visually going to react

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Speaker 3: to a moment. Wow. It's it's tough, boy, because you

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Speaker 3: just you just get locked up in the emotion. We're

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Speaker 3: all competing all the time, we've all been raised a

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Speaker 3: different way, and all of a sudden you do different things,

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Speaker 3: and obviously you regret it when you get done a

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Speaker 3: lot of times. But nevertheless, it's the heat of the moment, man,

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Speaker 3: and you will do crazy stuff in the heat of

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Speaker 3: the moment. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Great point, because if you noticed, after Dusty was thrown

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Speaker 1: out of the game, he actually sat back down and

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Speaker 1: did not want to leave, and Marvin Hudson came over

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Speaker 1: and said, Dusty, you gotta go.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I'm not leaving. And it was Dusty's coaching staff.

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Speaker 1: Basically he told him, Dusty, if you don't leave here,

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Speaker 1: you're looking at not just being thrown out, you're going

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Speaker 1: to be suspended.

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Speaker 2: Yea, And so he finally reluctantly left. But it's true, man, Yeah, yeah, true.

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Speaker 1: So I guess we'll leave it at Neither one is

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Speaker 1: going to convince each other, but it's a compelling argument,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's one of those great baseball dilemmas if

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Speaker 1: you will, where you can see it from both sides.

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Speaker 2: Correct, very cool stuff. Well, I want to dive into

432
00:20:00,438 --> 00:20:01,398
Speaker 2: some of the actual.

433
00:20:01,118 --> 00:20:04,238
Speaker 1: Baseball that happened during that game, because lots of things

434
00:20:04,238 --> 00:20:06,158
Speaker 1: to talk about there as well, and what right now

435
00:20:06,198 --> 00:20:08,078
Speaker 1: looks like a pivotal game of the ALCS.

436
00:20:08,118 --> 00:20:09,238
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after.

437
00:20:09,078 --> 00:20:21,998
Speaker 1: This back here with Joe Madden on the Book of

438
00:20:22,078 --> 00:20:24,958
Speaker 1: Joe podcast. We're talking about Game five of the ALCS

439
00:20:24,998 --> 00:20:29,158
Speaker 1: as we enter Game six coming up. Joe, I'm curious

440
00:20:29,158 --> 00:20:33,118
Speaker 1: about pitching strategies, especially late in the game, and how

441
00:20:33,158 --> 00:20:36,558
Speaker 1: you should attack hitters when you're protecting a lead. I'm

442
00:20:36,558 --> 00:20:38,558
Speaker 1: looking at the first of all, let's go back to

443
00:20:38,598 --> 00:20:42,638
Speaker 1: that ninth inning for Houston. Janner Diaz gets a base hit.

444
00:20:42,678 --> 00:20:44,878
Speaker 1: He had a base hit since the end of September.

445
00:20:45,518 --> 00:20:49,318
Speaker 1: They sent jon Jonathan Singleton up to pinch hit, and

446
00:20:50,078 --> 00:20:53,118
Speaker 1: Singleton has not had a bat in the postseason. He

447
00:20:53,198 --> 00:20:56,718
Speaker 1: has not had a base hit since September the thirteenth,

448
00:20:56,878 --> 00:20:59,358
Speaker 1: and the Estros obviously don't use their bench that much.

449
00:20:59,878 --> 00:21:02,638
Speaker 1: He goes up there to pitch hit, he doesn't swing

450
00:21:02,718 --> 00:21:06,278
Speaker 1: the bat. Literally, the cow goes three and two. It's

451
00:21:06,278 --> 00:21:08,198
Speaker 1: a two run game. Run around first base. You have

452
00:21:08,238 --> 00:21:10,438
Speaker 1: a guy up there who has not swung yet, and

453
00:21:10,518 --> 00:21:13,198
Speaker 1: has not swung in a month, and Jose Le Clark

454
00:21:13,198 --> 00:21:15,958
Speaker 1: throws a change up. He threw a three and two

455
00:21:16,038 --> 00:21:20,038
Speaker 1: change up and walked him. Now we've got first and second,

456
00:21:20,078 --> 00:21:22,798
Speaker 1: and guess who's coming up as the go ahead run

457
00:21:23,438 --> 00:21:27,318
Speaker 1: Jose al two V. Wait, there's more. Jose al twove

458
00:21:27,438 --> 00:21:29,958
Speaker 1: steps in. One of the world's greatest fastball hitters. You

459
00:21:30,038 --> 00:21:32,918
Speaker 1: know that, Joe. First pitch, the clerk throws a really

460
00:21:32,998 --> 00:21:35,478
Speaker 1: nice slider, gets the call in the outside corner. It's

461
00:21:35,478 --> 00:21:37,998
Speaker 1: oh to one. What do you do the next pitch?

462
00:21:38,118 --> 00:21:40,198
Speaker 1: They don't want to double up on the slider. You

463
00:21:40,238 --> 00:21:42,518
Speaker 1: know all two V is too good of a fastball hitter.

464
00:21:42,598 --> 00:21:44,158
Speaker 1: You don't want to come up with the fastball. Even

465
00:21:44,198 --> 00:21:46,678
Speaker 1: though the clerk throws ninety seven to ninety eight, he

466
00:21:46,798 --> 00:21:49,998
Speaker 1: decides to throw a change up. Jose Le Clark, at

467
00:21:50,038 --> 00:21:53,238
Speaker 1: that point this year, had thrown nineteen change ups to

468
00:21:53,358 --> 00:21:56,758
Speaker 1: right handed hitters. At two percent of his pitches the

469
00:21:56,838 --> 00:21:59,478
Speaker 1: right handers have been change ups. He decides to throw

470
00:21:59,478 --> 00:22:02,798
Speaker 1: a change up and it just floats up and in

471
00:22:03,438 --> 00:22:06,678
Speaker 1: a two hits it out. I couldn't believe either pitch

472
00:22:06,758 --> 00:22:09,278
Speaker 1: the three to two change up to a guy hasn't

473
00:22:09,358 --> 00:22:12,398
Speaker 1: hit for a month, and a rare right on right

474
00:22:12,478 --> 00:22:13,838
Speaker 1: change up from the clerk.

475
00:22:13,878 --> 00:22:14,878
Speaker 2: That leaves the ballpark.

476
00:22:14,918 --> 00:22:17,678
Speaker 1: You get beat by Jose Altive on what literally is

477
00:22:18,078 --> 00:22:21,718
Speaker 1: Jose Leclerk's fifth best pitch to a right ended hitter.

478
00:22:22,838 --> 00:22:24,838
Speaker 1: So we can talk about, you know, throwing at guys,

479
00:22:24,878 --> 00:22:28,558
Speaker 1: not throwing a Guy's curious your take on pitch selection,

480
00:22:29,198 --> 00:22:32,638
Speaker 1: especially late relievers get late in the game protecting a lead.

481
00:22:33,198 --> 00:22:37,358
Speaker 3: Well, that really screams Scott and report to me. I

482
00:22:37,398 --> 00:22:40,838
Speaker 3: don't know that either the clerk or the catcher would

483
00:22:40,838 --> 00:22:42,358
Speaker 3: have all of a sudden got this, had to see

484
00:22:42,398 --> 00:22:45,198
Speaker 3: piphany and decided, like you said, to throw the fifth

485
00:22:45,198 --> 00:22:48,078
Speaker 3: best pitch. I would bet that was discussed before the

486
00:22:48,118 --> 00:22:52,638
Speaker 3: game because a twov had been so has been so good,

487
00:22:52,798 --> 00:22:57,198
Speaker 3: obviously always good in the playoffs, that he would pick

488
00:22:57,278 --> 00:22:58,998
Speaker 3: and choose that. Maybe they felt that he's been hitting

489
00:22:58,998 --> 00:23:01,678
Speaker 3: everything else, let's try the change up. Or again he

490
00:23:01,758 --> 00:23:03,198
Speaker 3: might have faced OU don't know how many change ups

491
00:23:03,198 --> 00:23:05,358
Speaker 3: all season versus his right handed pitcher and maybe was

492
00:23:05,638 --> 00:23:07,638
Speaker 3: not very good at it. That would be my guess,

493
00:23:07,998 --> 00:23:09,958
Speaker 3: and with Singleton's same thing, I guess he just had

494
00:23:09,998 --> 00:23:12,198
Speaker 3: him as dead red and they felt the clerk can

495
00:23:12,238 --> 00:23:14,038
Speaker 3: throw a strike with his change if you have to

496
00:23:14,038 --> 00:23:17,598
Speaker 3: throw a strike pitch under those circumstances. So maybe, again,

497
00:23:18,358 --> 00:23:21,398
Speaker 3: not watching it that closely enough or knowing enough, I

498
00:23:21,398 --> 00:23:23,958
Speaker 3: would think between the clerk and the catcher, they thought

499
00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:26,318
Speaker 3: it was a really good strike pitch because you cannot

500
00:23:26,318 --> 00:23:29,358
Speaker 3: rely because Singleton will accept his walks, he will not

501
00:23:29,838 --> 00:23:31,878
Speaker 3: expand the strike zone, so you can't count on that.

502
00:23:32,158 --> 00:23:34,198
Speaker 3: And I'm on the sidelines and I'm watching something like

503
00:23:34,238 --> 00:23:36,998
Speaker 3: that occur where we're going strike ball pitch in a

504
00:23:37,038 --> 00:23:40,078
Speaker 3: full count when you really can't do that. That obviously

505
00:23:40,158 --> 00:23:43,158
Speaker 3: used to upset me a lot. So again I would

506
00:23:43,198 --> 00:23:46,118
Speaker 3: bet that they liked the change up, or they liked

507
00:23:46,118 --> 00:23:48,758
Speaker 3: the fact that the clerk can throw that for a strike.

508
00:23:49,238 --> 00:23:51,398
Speaker 3: But when it came to Altuve, the fact that he's

509
00:23:51,398 --> 00:23:53,918
Speaker 3: been so hot, they were looking for alternative plans to

510
00:23:53,918 --> 00:23:56,758
Speaker 3: get him out and may have picked the wrong time

511
00:23:56,798 --> 00:23:58,678
Speaker 3: to zig or when they should have zagged. Kind of

512
00:23:58,678 --> 00:24:01,798
Speaker 3: a thing. But it screams to me that that was

513
00:24:01,798 --> 00:24:06,238
Speaker 3: discussed before the game in those situations to choose to

514
00:24:06,518 --> 00:24:09,158
Speaker 3: make those pitches because neither the clerk or him the catcher.

515
00:24:09,718 --> 00:24:12,118
Speaker 3: Really I don't know if that the right word is

516
00:24:12,158 --> 00:24:14,438
Speaker 3: creativity or not. I don't see either one of them

517
00:24:14,438 --> 00:24:17,598
Speaker 3: wanting to go to that direction under those circumstances.

518
00:24:17,838 --> 00:24:18,478
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

519
00:24:18,598 --> 00:24:20,798
Speaker 1: I think two has just been that much of a

520
00:24:20,878 --> 00:24:24,798
Speaker 1: pissed you sometimes overthink it. Now he did throw al

521
00:24:24,878 --> 00:24:27,838
Speaker 1: two a two change ups. It was either game one

522
00:24:27,918 --> 00:24:31,918
Speaker 1: or Game two, did leclerk no action on either pitch,

523
00:24:32,038 --> 00:24:35,238
Speaker 1: just out of the zone. But yeah, I mean it's

524
00:24:35,318 --> 00:24:37,798
Speaker 1: it's the same with your Don Alvarez. You know, these

525
00:24:37,798 --> 00:24:41,318
Speaker 1: guys who can cover so many different pitches create problems

526
00:24:41,358 --> 00:24:44,318
Speaker 1: when it comes to game calling. But as you know, Joe,

527
00:24:44,318 --> 00:24:48,158
Speaker 1: to me, if you look at regular season, postseason doesn't matter,

528
00:24:48,198 --> 00:24:51,918
Speaker 1: but especially postseason, if my late inning reliever is out

529
00:24:51,918 --> 00:24:54,638
Speaker 1: there on the mound, there's two things I really have

530
00:24:54,758 --> 00:24:59,078
Speaker 1: to depress. Walks and home runs. You just it'll kill you,

531
00:25:00,038 --> 00:25:04,038
Speaker 1: And you know that's what it hurt Leclerk. Actually, it's

532
00:25:04,078 --> 00:25:06,278
Speaker 1: hurt the Rangers a lot in the series with walks

533
00:25:06,278 --> 00:25:08,558
Speaker 1: that lead to runs. And then on the other side,

534
00:25:08,598 --> 00:25:12,078
Speaker 1: you look at Ryan Presley, who's just been unbelievable in

535
00:25:12,118 --> 00:25:16,558
Speaker 1: his postseason career forty three postseason appearances, has not blown

536
00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:19,558
Speaker 1: to save, has not lost a game, rarely gives up

537
00:25:19,558 --> 00:25:21,718
Speaker 1: home runs. It pitched out of trouble in both the

538
00:25:21,758 --> 00:25:24,238
Speaker 1: eighth and the ninth innings. So I think, as we

539
00:25:24,278 --> 00:25:29,078
Speaker 1: thought going in Joe, the difference in the bullpens. You know, again,

540
00:25:29,198 --> 00:25:33,118
Speaker 1: we'll put aside all the nonsense and the bench clearing stuff.

541
00:25:33,198 --> 00:25:36,518
Speaker 1: In Game five, bullpen's been a difference. Dusty just has

542
00:25:36,758 --> 00:25:38,798
Speaker 1: more better options than does Bruce Bocci.

543
00:25:39,198 --> 00:25:40,838
Speaker 3: Going back to the tube thing though, I mean, if

544
00:25:40,838 --> 00:25:42,838
Speaker 3: you think about his swing, I'm just playing this up

545
00:25:42,878 --> 00:25:44,598
Speaker 3: mentally right now. Why they might have done something like

546
00:25:44,638 --> 00:25:47,318
Speaker 3: that to get underneath him is really a good spot.

547
00:25:47,038 --> 00:25:50,198
Speaker 3: He's a flat swinger, and he likes to pitch up

548
00:25:50,238 --> 00:25:52,878
Speaker 3: in his own primarily, so a really good change up

549
00:25:53,718 --> 00:25:56,238
Speaker 3: that gets underneath a writing from a right handed pitchers

550
00:25:56,278 --> 00:25:59,358
Speaker 3: and outstanding pitch. James Shields is really good at that.

551
00:26:00,038 --> 00:26:02,878
Speaker 3: Alex Cobb, with that vulcan pitch that he's got, can

552
00:26:02,918 --> 00:26:05,238
Speaker 3: do that kind of stuff. So there are writings that

553
00:26:05,318 --> 00:26:08,318
Speaker 3: could get the ball underneath. Writings that have very flat swings.

554
00:26:08,678 --> 00:26:11,318
Speaker 3: Guys that have that are really good high ball hitters normally,

555
00:26:11,638 --> 00:26:14,158
Speaker 3: like I look at Evan Longoria too. Evan I was

556
00:26:14,198 --> 00:26:15,758
Speaker 3: always from the time he was a kid, had that

557
00:26:15,798 --> 00:26:18,318
Speaker 3: really flat swing that he would crush something up, but

558
00:26:18,438 --> 00:26:21,278
Speaker 3: something down and in underneath them. Roco ball Delhi, I've

559
00:26:21,278 --> 00:26:23,478
Speaker 3: had a bunch of these guys that if you could

560
00:26:23,478 --> 00:26:26,158
Speaker 3: get underneath them right on right, they have really no chance.

561
00:26:26,158 --> 00:26:29,038
Speaker 3: So I would that may have been the logic involved

562
00:26:29,118 --> 00:26:30,438
Speaker 3: right there, he just didn't get it where he wanted

563
00:26:30,478 --> 00:26:33,038
Speaker 3: to get that pitch, and then obviously it speeds up

564
00:26:33,078 --> 00:26:35,438
Speaker 3: the bat and two we can get to it if

565
00:26:35,438 --> 00:26:37,358
Speaker 3: you put in the wrong spot, so that may have

566
00:26:37,398 --> 00:26:37,878
Speaker 3: been part of it.

567
00:26:37,878 --> 00:26:39,838
Speaker 1: Also, Yeah, I think you're right, and it was the

568
00:26:39,878 --> 00:26:43,038
Speaker 1: wrong spot, you know, down and in and not down enough.

569
00:26:43,518 --> 00:26:44,838
Speaker 2: That's night Zone.

570
00:26:45,878 --> 00:26:48,038
Speaker 1: Let's talk about pitching matchups and then we'll move on

571
00:26:48,078 --> 00:26:49,758
Speaker 1: to the NL.

572
00:26:50,078 --> 00:26:52,198
Speaker 2: Listen, if we get to a game seven, it's interesting.

573
00:26:52,318 --> 00:26:55,718
Speaker 1: It's Max Scherzer, who was really rusty, as you would

574
00:26:55,718 --> 00:26:58,638
Speaker 1: expect after not pitching for thirty six days, sure, against

575
00:26:58,718 --> 00:27:01,878
Speaker 1: Christian Javier, who's just been lights out really since the

576
00:27:01,958 --> 00:27:05,838
Speaker 1: end of the season. Game six, it's the Rangers who

577
00:27:05,878 --> 00:27:09,198
Speaker 1: have the pitching advantage with a red hot Nathan Valdi.

578
00:27:09,518 --> 00:27:13,598
Speaker 1: A big game Nathan, by the way against from Ravaldez.

579
00:27:13,958 --> 00:27:16,638
Speaker 1: And you know, I talked with the pitching coach, Josh

580
00:27:16,678 --> 00:27:22,038
Speaker 1: Miller about from Briveldez and he basically said he hasn't

581
00:27:22,078 --> 00:27:26,078
Speaker 1: had his curveball for four months. He's overthrowing his sinker

582
00:27:26,118 --> 00:27:28,278
Speaker 1: where it's straightened out, He's much more on top of

583
00:27:28,278 --> 00:27:30,198
Speaker 1: the ball. He's actually if you look at the metrics

584
00:27:30,198 --> 00:27:33,678
Speaker 1: on his sinker, they actually look like for see metrics,

585
00:27:33,918 --> 00:27:35,918
Speaker 1: it's just holding its plane as a sinker at the

586
00:27:35,958 --> 00:27:37,958
Speaker 1: bottom of the zone, which is bad news for.

587
00:27:37,998 --> 00:27:39,038
Speaker 2: A sinker ball pitcher.

588
00:27:39,398 --> 00:27:42,398
Speaker 1: So he's worked the last week in between starts here

589
00:27:42,598 --> 00:27:45,038
Speaker 1: on his three flag round days and his bullpen days

590
00:27:45,358 --> 00:27:47,918
Speaker 1: and actually lowering his arm angle to try to get

591
00:27:47,918 --> 00:27:50,838
Speaker 1: some more sink back in that. So we'll see if

592
00:27:50,838 --> 00:27:52,798
Speaker 1: the mechanical adjustment plays out.

593
00:27:52,838 --> 00:27:55,958
Speaker 2: But from Bravaldez has not been good for a long time.

594
00:27:55,998 --> 00:28:00,318
Speaker 1: Here, Evaldi has been hot, Joe. You know what it's

595
00:28:00,398 --> 00:28:02,238
Speaker 1: like when you give the ball in a must win

596
00:28:02,318 --> 00:28:05,238
Speaker 1: situation to a pitcher that you really trust. I actually

597
00:28:05,278 --> 00:28:08,838
Speaker 1: think the Rangers feel good being on the road, which

598
00:28:08,878 --> 00:28:10,798
Speaker 1: doesn't bother them at Minute May Park and give it

599
00:28:10,838 --> 00:28:12,318
Speaker 1: a ball to Avaldi.

600
00:28:12,198 --> 00:28:16,958
Speaker 3: Agreed all of that thing about Valdez. I really like him.

601
00:28:17,398 --> 00:28:19,878
Speaker 3: About what we all like him. He needs to put

602
00:28:19,878 --> 00:28:21,918
Speaker 3: the ball on the ground. That's what he does really well.

603
00:28:21,918 --> 00:28:23,518
Speaker 3: He puts the ball on the ground. That sinker is

604
00:28:23,518 --> 00:28:26,278
Speaker 3: a very good pitch. And off of that, like you said,

605
00:28:26,318 --> 00:28:28,518
Speaker 3: the breaking ball, sliders slurve, but what do you want

606
00:28:28,518 --> 00:28:31,558
Speaker 3: to call it a curve or not? He and to me,

607
00:28:32,358 --> 00:28:35,678
Speaker 3: he's been really tough on right handed hitters. I really

608
00:28:35,718 --> 00:28:37,278
Speaker 3: like I said, I think I might have mentioned you before.

609
00:28:37,318 --> 00:28:39,478
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid to start a lefty against him, I'm

610
00:28:39,518 --> 00:28:43,278
Speaker 3: really not. I he would make more mistakes I thought,

611
00:28:43,358 --> 00:28:45,118
Speaker 3: hit able mistakes to the lefties, and he would to

612
00:28:45,158 --> 00:28:48,158
Speaker 3: righty's because when everything he's got in his in his

613
00:28:48,238 --> 00:28:51,958
Speaker 3: toolbox going on, the way he pitches the right handed hitters,

614
00:28:51,958 --> 00:28:53,558
Speaker 3: it's very difficult to put the ball in the air

615
00:28:54,118 --> 00:28:56,158
Speaker 3: and even I think a lot of strikeouts occurring again

616
00:28:56,198 --> 00:28:58,598
Speaker 3: that underneath pitch to them and then and then to

617
00:28:58,638 --> 00:29:00,678
Speaker 3: fade down in a way. So I think you're going

618
00:29:00,758 --> 00:29:02,598
Speaker 3: to know early on with him if he's throwing ground

619
00:29:02,638 --> 00:29:06,398
Speaker 3: balls and the contact isn't very frisky, like it's less

620
00:29:06,358 --> 00:29:09,398
Speaker 3: stand contact he could pitch his typical kind of game,

621
00:29:09,398 --> 00:29:11,598
Speaker 3: but that's a stretch. He hasn't been there for a while.

622
00:29:11,598 --> 00:29:15,438
Speaker 3: I know, the flat ground in between the armagle all

623
00:29:15,478 --> 00:29:17,798
Speaker 3: sounds really good. But this is about feel and confidence.

624
00:29:18,318 --> 00:29:20,718
Speaker 3: So unless he goes out there confidently and feels what

625
00:29:20,758 --> 00:29:23,518
Speaker 3: he's doing early, he's gonna run into the same kind

626
00:29:23,558 --> 00:29:26,918
Speaker 3: of issues he had before. You're right regarding your vald,

627
00:29:26,958 --> 00:29:29,318
Speaker 3: He's going to pitch the same way. There's no doubt.

628
00:29:29,318 --> 00:29:31,718
Speaker 3: I could definitely see this game going seven games, this

629
00:29:31,758 --> 00:29:34,878
Speaker 3: series going seven games, based on the weirdness of the

630
00:29:34,918 --> 00:29:38,438
Speaker 3: Astros at home and how good the Rangers are on

631
00:29:38,478 --> 00:29:41,038
Speaker 3: the road. I definitely could see this as a seven

632
00:29:41,078 --> 00:29:45,278
Speaker 3: game situation. And at that point with Max, there's just

633
00:29:45,318 --> 00:29:48,198
Speaker 3: ain no telling with that whatsoever. He will rise to

634
00:29:48,238 --> 00:29:51,278
Speaker 3: the occasion to a certain extent, but I don't know. Man,

635
00:29:51,278 --> 00:29:52,878
Speaker 3: when you've been off that long and you've had issues

636
00:29:52,918 --> 00:29:55,558
Speaker 3: with your shoulder of all things, that's a bad spot.

637
00:29:56,078 --> 00:29:58,358
Speaker 3: And then here we have Hobbyer coming back. So I see,

638
00:29:58,398 --> 00:30:01,518
Speaker 3: I did really interesting game seven popping up with this one,

639
00:30:02,118 --> 00:30:05,398
Speaker 3: and like early on, if this is getting ground balls,

640
00:30:06,638 --> 00:30:08,878
Speaker 3: he may be there five plus innings.

641
00:30:09,118 --> 00:30:11,678
Speaker 1: I think you're right too. I think I agree the lefties.

642
00:30:12,838 --> 00:30:15,518
Speaker 1: I actually have a better shot against Valdez. The curveball

643
00:30:15,638 --> 00:30:17,878
Speaker 1: just doesn't play as well against the same sided.

644
00:30:17,958 --> 00:30:19,438
Speaker 2: But the curveball.

645
00:30:19,558 --> 00:30:21,798
Speaker 1: Keep an eye on the game, because you know what

646
00:30:21,838 --> 00:30:24,198
Speaker 1: he's been doing is he's been like his sinker, he's

647
00:30:24,238 --> 00:30:27,158
Speaker 1: been overthrowing it. He can tend to get emotional out there,

648
00:30:27,238 --> 00:30:30,278
Speaker 1: and he's just throwing way too many non competitive curve balls.

649
00:30:30,558 --> 00:30:34,278
Speaker 1: And if he can land curveballs early in this game

650
00:30:34,558 --> 00:30:38,958
Speaker 1: and my hunches, he's going to throw a ton of

651
00:30:38,998 --> 00:30:42,158
Speaker 1: curveballs in this game. You know, normally he's going to

652
00:30:42,198 --> 00:30:44,238
Speaker 1: throw about thirty percent. I think you're going to look

653
00:30:44,238 --> 00:30:46,678
Speaker 1: at over forty percent curve balls in this game.

654
00:30:46,718 --> 00:30:48,158
Speaker 2: But he's got to land it early.

655
00:30:48,238 --> 00:30:50,878
Speaker 1: He's got to at least make it a competitive pitch

656
00:30:50,918 --> 00:30:53,358
Speaker 1: where hitters, which they have been doing, have just been

657
00:30:53,878 --> 00:30:55,838
Speaker 1: kind of dismissing it because out of his hand it's

658
00:30:55,878 --> 00:30:57,718
Speaker 1: a ball. If he can land a few early on,

659
00:30:57,838 --> 00:31:00,038
Speaker 1: I think you'll see him ride that breaking ball because

660
00:31:00,038 --> 00:31:02,278
Speaker 1: when it's right, that's as good of a curveball as

661
00:31:02,278 --> 00:31:03,038
Speaker 1: there is in the game.

662
00:31:04,678 --> 00:31:06,598
Speaker 2: All Right, let's talk about National League Joe.

663
00:31:06,598 --> 00:31:09,198
Speaker 1: We got the Arizona Diamondbacks going into the den, that

664
00:31:09,318 --> 00:31:14,678
Speaker 1: is Citizens Bank Ballpark, fighting for their season. Any chance

665
00:31:15,118 --> 00:31:18,198
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks and go into Philly and take two from

666
00:31:18,238 --> 00:31:19,198
Speaker 1: the Phillies.

667
00:31:19,198 --> 00:31:21,798
Speaker 3: I don't see it. I don't see how. I think

668
00:31:22,718 --> 00:31:25,438
Speaker 3: they pretty much the series. Had you know, Kimberl really

669
00:31:25,478 --> 00:31:27,318
Speaker 3: had a really hard time out there, otherwise the series

670
00:31:27,358 --> 00:31:30,678
Speaker 3: would be over. I think so just based on that,

671
00:31:31,238 --> 00:31:34,118
Speaker 3: they they got fortunate the fact that he had such

672
00:31:34,118 --> 00:31:37,078
Speaker 3: a hard time in Arizona and going back there with

673
00:31:37,118 --> 00:31:39,478
Speaker 3: the day off, the day's rest, all the other bullpen

674
00:31:39,998 --> 00:31:41,958
Speaker 3: fellows will be ready to go for the Phillies. I

675
00:31:41,958 --> 00:31:44,558
Speaker 3: think you're going to see the same kind of conclusion.

676
00:31:44,598 --> 00:31:47,118
Speaker 3: You're going to see the same emotion from their offense

677
00:31:47,118 --> 00:31:48,798
Speaker 3: from Philadelphi. You're going to see, I think, the same

678
00:31:48,878 --> 00:31:51,238
Speaker 3: kind of quick jump start early on in the game.

679
00:31:52,158 --> 00:31:55,158
Speaker 3: Even even if even if Arizona were to get up

680
00:31:55,158 --> 00:31:57,558
Speaker 3: a little bit early run one or two runs early,

681
00:31:58,718 --> 00:32:01,038
Speaker 3: with the home court advantage, those kind of players, I

682
00:32:01,038 --> 00:32:03,118
Speaker 3: still think this is a situation where they would come back.

683
00:32:03,678 --> 00:32:06,398
Speaker 3: So so yeah, I really believe this will go. You know,

684
00:32:06,438 --> 00:32:08,918
Speaker 3: the next game will be it And like I said,

685
00:32:08,918 --> 00:32:11,078
Speaker 3: it would have been done by now. Had Kimberle had

686
00:32:11,438 --> 00:32:13,318
Speaker 3: had he pitched better, But I don't see it right now.

687
00:32:13,318 --> 00:32:16,278
Speaker 3: I think they really have to reconsider this. I'm curious,

688
00:32:16,798 --> 00:32:19,038
Speaker 3: you know, the usage in the spots of the game.

689
00:32:19,518 --> 00:32:21,838
Speaker 3: I would almost bet that Robbie, if there's a chance

690
00:32:21,918 --> 00:32:24,878
Speaker 3: not that you're looking for one, and you know, maybe

691
00:32:24,878 --> 00:32:27,638
Speaker 3: the middle innings where they might be behind the Phillies

692
00:32:27,638 --> 00:32:29,918
Speaker 3: in Game six, get him back out there to see

693
00:32:29,918 --> 00:32:31,318
Speaker 3: if you could work through some things and see if

694
00:32:31,358 --> 00:32:34,038
Speaker 3: you get your utility back. Otherwise, if they were to

695
00:32:34,038 --> 00:32:38,598
Speaker 3: win the game tomorrow and conclude it, that's it. I'd

696
00:32:38,598 --> 00:32:40,318
Speaker 3: be curious to see what they how they set up

697
00:32:40,358 --> 00:32:44,918
Speaker 3: their pitching for the World Series, because it may exclude

698
00:32:44,998 --> 00:32:47,118
Speaker 3: him if in fact they think they can get him right.

699
00:32:47,318 --> 00:32:49,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely want to ask you about that when

700
00:32:49,558 --> 00:32:53,758
Speaker 1: you have someone of that stature Craig Kimberll and things

701
00:32:53,798 --> 00:32:55,238
Speaker 1: clearly aren't working right for him.

702
00:32:55,238 --> 00:32:57,238
Speaker 2: I mean, the home run by Alec Thomas.

703
00:32:56,998 --> 00:33:00,438
Speaker 1: Was just a doesn't ninety four mile an hour floater

704
00:33:00,558 --> 00:33:03,398
Speaker 1: of a fastball? I mean, and he always scares me

705
00:33:03,438 --> 00:33:05,438
Speaker 1: because he's he's one of these relief pitchers, like a

706
00:33:05,518 --> 00:33:07,518
Speaker 1: old As Chapman who seems to have a walk in

707
00:33:07,598 --> 00:33:10,558
Speaker 1: him all the time, and these guys who don't defend

708
00:33:10,758 --> 00:33:12,518
Speaker 1: the running game, well, you know.

709
00:33:12,678 --> 00:33:14,078
Speaker 2: Those are especially risky.

710
00:33:14,798 --> 00:33:17,878
Speaker 1: So when you've got a veteran guy like that, obviously

711
00:33:18,078 --> 00:33:21,078
Speaker 1: huge status in the game, he's done it so many

712
00:33:21,078 --> 00:33:23,238
Speaker 1: times before. But what you're looking at in the moment

713
00:33:23,318 --> 00:33:26,478
Speaker 1: tells you to me, his stuff is short that I

714
00:33:26,558 --> 00:33:29,758
Speaker 1: can't really trust him in a high leverage spot. That's

715
00:33:29,758 --> 00:33:32,478
Speaker 1: got to be a very difficult situation to handle if

716
00:33:32,478 --> 00:33:36,238
Speaker 1: you're Rob Thompson. Now, granted I understand Joe. Bottom line

717
00:33:36,318 --> 00:33:37,758
Speaker 1: is you have to win the game and you got

718
00:33:37,758 --> 00:33:40,478
Speaker 1: to do it the best way you can. But I'm

719
00:33:40,478 --> 00:33:42,958
Speaker 1: assuming Joe you need a conversation with your pitcher at

720
00:33:42,958 --> 00:33:47,758
Speaker 1: that point to let him know that you still have

721
00:33:47,838 --> 00:33:51,518
Speaker 1: confidence in him when you're signaling that you don't have confidence.

722
00:33:51,198 --> 00:33:55,198
Speaker 3: Right, that's going to require some serious conversation with your

723
00:33:55,238 --> 00:33:58,758
Speaker 3: pitching coach and your bullpen coach too, because they talk

724
00:33:58,798 --> 00:34:00,398
Speaker 3: to him all the time. I mean, as a manager,

725
00:34:00,398 --> 00:34:02,318
Speaker 3: you might have the same prevy to do the same

726
00:34:02,358 --> 00:34:05,038
Speaker 3: conversations that they do. Obviously they're gonna hear different things.

727
00:34:05,038 --> 00:34:07,918
Speaker 3: They're going to read body language maybe a little bit differently,

728
00:34:07,998 --> 00:34:09,958
Speaker 3: or even emotion in the conversation, and they're going to

729
00:34:09,998 --> 00:34:13,398
Speaker 3: give you a better read, a clearer read regarding this

730
00:34:13,478 --> 00:34:15,078
Speaker 3: is what I'm saying. You may be right, but then

731
00:34:15,358 --> 00:34:18,878
Speaker 3: they're gonna add some substance to it. They're gonna add

732
00:34:18,878 --> 00:34:21,238
Speaker 3: some color to it and give you a better opportunity

733
00:34:21,278 --> 00:34:24,278
Speaker 3: to understand the depth of what's going on right here.

734
00:34:24,398 --> 00:34:27,598
Speaker 3: So that's all gonna happen. It's all gonna happen. The

735
00:34:27,678 --> 00:34:30,838
Speaker 3: thing is, if you feel as though you cannot use

736
00:34:30,918 --> 00:34:34,038
Speaker 3: him in a typical or similar role that you've had

737
00:34:34,318 --> 00:34:37,758
Speaker 3: to that point, that it might be wiser to like

738
00:34:38,438 --> 00:34:40,278
Speaker 3: move your other guys to the back of the game

739
00:34:40,398 --> 00:34:42,958
Speaker 3: al resids sat or move them to the back and

740
00:34:42,998 --> 00:34:45,718
Speaker 3: then bump everybody out. Now, Soto was no bargain the

741
00:34:45,758 --> 00:34:49,398
Speaker 3: other day either, and Sirin Anthony, he's he's got a

742
00:34:49,398 --> 00:34:51,718
Speaker 3: great arm. Man, guy's got a great arm, but you

743
00:34:51,718 --> 00:34:53,438
Speaker 3: can see it in his face. Just a little bit

744
00:34:54,678 --> 00:34:58,158
Speaker 3: scattered too, and not as confident as you like to see.

745
00:34:58,478 --> 00:35:01,038
Speaker 3: So they have a lot of these little issues with

746
00:35:01,038 --> 00:35:02,838
Speaker 3: some of the guys at the back end of their bullpen,

747
00:35:03,478 --> 00:35:07,118
Speaker 3: but primarily with the Kimberlo. Okay, if we're going to

748
00:35:07,198 --> 00:35:10,518
Speaker 3: keep him it's going to have to be earlier in

749
00:35:10,558 --> 00:35:12,198
Speaker 3: the game, or you have to figure out that we

750
00:35:12,238 --> 00:35:15,238
Speaker 3: have somebody that we have more confidence in even in

751
00:35:15,278 --> 00:35:17,878
Speaker 3: the sixth or seventh inning, and then move everybody back

752
00:35:17,918 --> 00:35:20,758
Speaker 3: after that. It's going to be a good conversation. First

753
00:35:20,758 --> 00:35:21,918
Speaker 3: of all, they got to get there, but it'd be

754
00:35:21,918 --> 00:35:24,438
Speaker 3: a good conversation to be a part of to see

755
00:35:24,438 --> 00:35:25,718
Speaker 3: how they're going to try to figure that out.

756
00:35:26,198 --> 00:35:28,518
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you and me, we've seen enough of Rob

757
00:35:28,558 --> 00:35:31,598
Speaker 1: Thompson running these postseason games to know that he's not

758
00:35:31,678 --> 00:35:36,038
Speaker 1: going to hold somebody back to close like Alvarado probably

759
00:35:36,518 --> 00:35:39,558
Speaker 1: to me, has got the best stuff to close, but

760
00:35:40,238 --> 00:35:43,358
Speaker 1: he's such a great troubleshooter in a game who can

761
00:35:43,398 --> 00:35:45,038
Speaker 1: come in and get a punch out with runners on

762
00:35:45,878 --> 00:35:47,958
Speaker 1: that you know, Reb Thompson is not going to be

763
00:35:47,998 --> 00:35:50,318
Speaker 1: able to help himself from plugging him into a game

764
00:35:50,358 --> 00:35:52,638
Speaker 1: when he absolutely needs him. He's not going to hold

765
00:35:52,718 --> 00:35:56,158
Speaker 1: him for a ninth inning lead preservation that might not

766
00:35:56,278 --> 00:35:57,478
Speaker 1: come if things get away.

767
00:35:57,598 --> 00:35:59,918
Speaker 2: So you know where does he go?

768
00:36:00,198 --> 00:36:02,798
Speaker 1: Well, we've seen him close games with Matt Strom, with

769
00:36:02,878 --> 00:36:03,798
Speaker 1: Ranger Suarez.

770
00:36:05,038 --> 00:36:06,798
Speaker 2: I think this is how the failures are going to roll.

771
00:36:06,878 --> 00:36:09,318
Speaker 1: Joe he's just Rob Thompson is going to run the game,

772
00:36:09,398 --> 00:36:11,398
Speaker 1: and when he gets to the ninth inning with a lead,

773
00:36:11,478 --> 00:36:15,238
Speaker 1: if he's got that, it may be somebody who's not

774
00:36:15,318 --> 00:36:17,758
Speaker 1: a traditional closer who he uses it at that point.

775
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:19,998
Speaker 1: What do you think about operating games in that regard

776
00:36:20,078 --> 00:36:22,398
Speaker 1: the postseason where you don't have that designated guy to

777
00:36:22,398 --> 00:36:23,838
Speaker 1: get the last three outs.

778
00:36:23,878 --> 00:36:26,438
Speaker 3: Well, you know, kind of did in two thousand and

779
00:36:26,478 --> 00:36:29,558
Speaker 3: eight because when Perceval got hurt, then we became all

780
00:36:29,558 --> 00:36:32,438
Speaker 3: hands on deck bullpen. And it's not bad. I mean,

781
00:36:32,478 --> 00:36:35,318
Speaker 3: like you're talking about. Of course, I always like to

782
00:36:35,318 --> 00:36:37,278
Speaker 3: have the definitive closer so I could build the eight

783
00:36:37,278 --> 00:36:39,838
Speaker 3: innings off him and in the postseason may seven and

784
00:36:39,878 --> 00:36:41,678
Speaker 3: two thirds because this guy might be able to pitch

785
00:36:41,718 --> 00:36:44,838
Speaker 3: four outs. But when you don't have that, there's also

786
00:36:44,958 --> 00:36:49,158
Speaker 3: kind of a uniqueness, something good about being able to

787
00:36:49,158 --> 00:36:51,198
Speaker 3: pop anybody at any time, maybe from the six or

788
00:36:51,238 --> 00:36:54,278
Speaker 3: seventh inning. On. The luxury I had in two thousand

789
00:36:54,358 --> 00:36:57,678
Speaker 3: and eight was JP Howe and Grant Balfour. These guys

790
00:36:57,678 --> 00:37:00,878
Speaker 3: were like, they were so big regarding the success of

791
00:37:00,918 --> 00:37:03,358
Speaker 3: the Rays that year, and they were like the middle

792
00:37:03,358 --> 00:37:05,598
Speaker 3: inning clothes is the way I view them. When you

793
00:37:05,598 --> 00:37:08,358
Speaker 3: have some middle inning closers, man, they could get you

794
00:37:08,398 --> 00:37:11,358
Speaker 3: out of jam. Either hold a small leader, even a

795
00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:13,838
Speaker 3: small deficit when you have a good offense like the

796
00:37:13,878 --> 00:37:15,958
Speaker 3: Phillies do, you just want to hold a small deficit

797
00:37:16,038 --> 00:37:18,038
Speaker 3: also to get you to the latter part of the game.

798
00:37:18,638 --> 00:37:21,758
Speaker 3: So there's an interesting component of that too. And then

799
00:37:22,278 --> 00:37:26,478
Speaker 3: once you've established like a floating closer that everybody's got

800
00:37:26,518 --> 00:37:28,798
Speaker 3: to be ready under their different circumstances, the guys kind

801
00:37:28,798 --> 00:37:30,438
Speaker 3: of dig on that, they kind of thrive on that,

802
00:37:31,278 --> 00:37:33,078
Speaker 3: and they're okay with that because then then all of

803
00:37:33,078 --> 00:37:36,518
Speaker 3: a sudden, you're building their confidence too. So I still

804
00:37:36,558 --> 00:37:40,798
Speaker 3: always argue for the traditional ninth inning guy, it helps

805
00:37:40,798 --> 00:37:42,958
Speaker 3: you set everything up before that. But when you don't

806
00:37:42,958 --> 00:37:45,638
Speaker 3: have that, then you have these built in middle inning

807
00:37:45,678 --> 00:37:48,638
Speaker 3: guy closers that kid, like I said, either hold it

808
00:37:49,478 --> 00:37:52,638
Speaker 3: for a bit and then and then it empowers the

809
00:37:52,678 --> 00:37:55,638
Speaker 3: other guys for the backside of the game. And you're

810
00:37:55,678 --> 00:37:59,718
Speaker 3: going to see performances now that weirdly that you probably

811
00:37:59,718 --> 00:38:01,278
Speaker 3: would not have seen during the course of the year.

812
00:38:01,478 --> 00:38:03,518
Speaker 1: Hey, when we get back after this quick break, I

813
00:38:03,558 --> 00:38:05,358
Speaker 1: want to ask Joe about one of his favorites.

814
00:38:05,398 --> 00:38:06,638
Speaker 2: One of mine as well.

815
00:38:06,438 --> 00:38:10,358
Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber, Why is this guy basically the new Reggie

816
00:38:10,438 --> 00:38:13,318
Speaker 1: Jackson when it comes to left handed home run hitting

817
00:38:13,318 --> 00:38:27,758
Speaker 1: in the postseason? Back after this, all right, Joe, Kyle Schwarber,

818
00:38:27,878 --> 00:38:30,238
Speaker 1: I think he just passed Reggie Jackson in the postseason

819
00:38:30,238 --> 00:38:32,278
Speaker 1: most home runs by a left handed hitter. You know,

820
00:38:32,358 --> 00:38:35,998
Speaker 1: he's not going to hit for a high average, which

821
00:38:36,038 --> 00:38:38,158
Speaker 1: is kind of unusual in my book. I mean, Kyle,

822
00:38:38,238 --> 00:38:40,838
Speaker 1: I think I know he strikes out a ton, doesn't

823
00:38:40,878 --> 00:38:43,558
Speaker 1: hit much more over two hundred. I think of him

824
00:38:43,558 --> 00:38:46,878
Speaker 1: as a great hitter even despite that batting average. But

825
00:38:46,958 --> 00:38:48,958
Speaker 1: what is it about this guy, Joe? It makes him

826
00:38:49,038 --> 00:38:51,678
Speaker 1: so dangerous, especially in a postseason.

827
00:38:51,478 --> 00:38:54,558
Speaker 3: Well, I mean right, First of all, he's done some

828
00:38:54,598 --> 00:38:59,278
Speaker 3: really nice work with his batting style, stance, approach, how

829
00:38:59,318 --> 00:39:01,438
Speaker 3: he sets up, and I know that Kevin has a

830
00:39:01,438 --> 00:39:03,678
Speaker 3: lot to do with that. He is so much more

831
00:39:04,638 --> 00:39:09,118
Speaker 3: and so much more precise with the bat head Number one,

832
00:39:09,598 --> 00:39:13,518
Speaker 3: Number two, he's paid hit home runs. He's not paid

833
00:39:13,558 --> 00:39:15,598
Speaker 3: to get base hits. He likes to draw his walks,

834
00:39:15,598 --> 00:39:17,238
Speaker 3: but he's not up there. If you look at his

835
00:39:17,238 --> 00:39:18,918
Speaker 3: swing and I was approach to the ball, what he's

836
00:39:18,918 --> 00:39:20,958
Speaker 3: trying to do. It's not about base hits, and it's

837
00:39:20,958 --> 00:39:23,278
Speaker 3: definitely not the blooper to left field. That's just going

838
00:39:23,278 --> 00:39:25,638
Speaker 3: to be an accident on occasion. So this is who

839
00:39:25,638 --> 00:39:27,198
Speaker 3: he is. This is what he is. This is who

840
00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:30,078
Speaker 3: he is. And furthermore, he's not The boy is not afraid.

841
00:39:30,118 --> 00:39:34,918
Speaker 3: The man's not afraid. He is. Gosh, he's the same

842
00:39:34,958 --> 00:39:37,078
Speaker 3: cat all the time. I mean, he shows up and

843
00:39:37,558 --> 00:39:39,558
Speaker 3: he shows up to play the same game every day.

844
00:39:39,598 --> 00:39:42,078
Speaker 3: And the thing is, when he goes badly, it doesn't

845
00:39:42,118 --> 00:39:45,638
Speaker 3: It doesn't kill us confidence. It does not kill his confidence.

846
00:39:45,678 --> 00:39:47,758
Speaker 3: I mean, if he could be over twenty and he

847
00:39:47,878 --> 00:39:50,158
Speaker 3: knows that the next one is going to be again

848
00:39:50,238 --> 00:39:53,078
Speaker 3: a bomb somewhere. So that's what he's paid to do,

849
00:39:53,798 --> 00:39:55,998
Speaker 3: that's what he's bred to do. I mean, you watch,

850
00:39:56,118 --> 00:39:58,318
Speaker 3: like I said, you watch the swing, the kind of

851
00:39:58,358 --> 00:40:00,838
Speaker 3: little bit of the lift in the swing, primarily right now,

852
00:40:00,878 --> 00:40:02,838
Speaker 3: you know the center field of the pull side. He

853
00:40:02,878 --> 00:40:05,238
Speaker 3: could go to left center, no question, I've seen a

854
00:40:05,238 --> 00:40:06,718
Speaker 3: lot of that. But right now he's in a pretty

855
00:40:06,718 --> 00:40:10,278
Speaker 3: good pull groove and he's not missing his pitch. Man,

856
00:40:10,678 --> 00:40:12,838
Speaker 3: when it's there, he's not missing it. Theirs solo shots

857
00:40:12,838 --> 00:40:15,758
Speaker 3: we've talked about this. I think he gets challenged a

858
00:40:15,798 --> 00:40:19,118
Speaker 3: lot with nobody on base and because of that, because

859
00:40:19,118 --> 00:40:22,198
Speaker 3: of Turner and Harper, etc. So he's getting protected by

860
00:40:22,198 --> 00:40:24,238
Speaker 3: the whole lineup right now too by hitting leadoff, which

861
00:40:24,278 --> 00:40:27,438
Speaker 3: definitely works in his favor because he's getting protected ab

862
00:40:27,598 --> 00:40:29,358
Speaker 3: he can just he'll take his walks instead. It up

863
00:40:29,358 --> 00:40:31,598
Speaker 3: for them if these other if the pitchers want to

864
00:40:31,678 --> 00:40:33,678
Speaker 3: choose to do that, because he's just not roly going

865
00:40:33,718 --> 00:40:37,238
Speaker 3: to expand. He will chase strike ball, breaking ball and

866
00:40:37,318 --> 00:40:40,438
Speaker 3: occasionally high fastball, but for the most part, weirdly, in

867
00:40:40,478 --> 00:40:44,038
Speaker 3: spite of all the strikeouts, he's pretty disciplined, so different animal,

868
00:40:44,278 --> 00:40:46,278
Speaker 3: the right makeup to do all this stuff. He knows

869
00:40:46,278 --> 00:40:49,878
Speaker 3: what he's there to do. He's nurtured the correct swing.

870
00:40:49,998 --> 00:40:52,638
Speaker 3: Kevin and him have done a great job together and

871
00:40:52,918 --> 00:40:54,878
Speaker 3: it's going to continue right through the World Series. Nothing's

872
00:40:54,878 --> 00:40:55,478
Speaker 3: going to change.

873
00:40:55,558 --> 00:40:57,918
Speaker 1: I love your point about his confidence because he's the

874
00:40:57,958 --> 00:41:00,998
Speaker 1: same guy every day. And you ask anybody who has

875
00:41:01,038 --> 00:41:03,478
Speaker 1: played with Kyle, and he's been a bunch of places

876
00:41:03,478 --> 00:41:08,158
Speaker 1: now he's everybody's favorite teammate. He really is, and it's

877
00:41:08,198 --> 00:41:10,758
Speaker 1: just the way his demeanor, the way he carries himself. Yeah,

878
00:41:10,758 --> 00:41:12,598
Speaker 1: he's a forty home run hitter out of the box.

879
00:41:12,678 --> 00:41:16,118
Speaker 1: But guys love being around Kyle Schwarber.

880
00:41:16,278 --> 00:41:17,038
Speaker 2: Always upbeat.

881
00:41:17,118 --> 00:41:19,438
Speaker 1: I've never seen the guy down, and that's gotta be

882
00:41:19,478 --> 00:41:21,918
Speaker 1: worth a lot, There's no question about that.

883
00:41:22,318 --> 00:41:25,718
Speaker 3: Well, fearlessness, shirtlessness is contagious. And if you're if you're

884
00:41:25,758 --> 00:41:28,238
Speaker 3: a teammate of his and you're around him all the time,

885
00:41:28,718 --> 00:41:30,558
Speaker 3: you know a lot of times we walk into the ballpark,

886
00:41:30,598 --> 00:41:31,878
Speaker 3: guys will walk in and you have a little bit

887
00:41:31,878 --> 00:41:33,278
Speaker 3: of said, that little bit of doubt in your mind

888
00:41:33,278 --> 00:41:36,438
Speaker 3: regarding whatever he doesn't he doesn't like I said, he

889
00:41:36,438 --> 00:41:39,158
Speaker 3: could be going really badly, and there's no doubt in

890
00:41:39,198 --> 00:41:41,758
Speaker 3: his mind that he's gonna turn it around tonight. He's

891
00:41:41,798 --> 00:41:43,838
Speaker 3: gonna change it up tonight. It's gonna he's gonna be

892
00:41:43,838 --> 00:41:46,078
Speaker 3: the difference tonight. So I think there's a fearlessness component

893
00:41:46,118 --> 00:41:49,598
Speaker 3: to him that the other guys in a baseball since

894
00:41:49,598 --> 00:41:52,998
Speaker 3: the courageousness about him that these other guys play off of.

895
00:41:53,158 --> 00:41:56,118
Speaker 1: All right, let's dive into some baseball one oh one

896
00:41:56,198 --> 00:41:59,758
Speaker 1: here when it comes to his strategy, and uh, it's

897
00:41:59,758 --> 00:42:01,318
Speaker 1: in kind of a new trend in the game today.

898
00:42:01,358 --> 00:42:02,918
Speaker 2: It's the first and third situation.

899
00:42:03,078 --> 00:42:05,958
Speaker 1: Here we saw Bryce Harper steel home on the back

900
00:42:06,078 --> 00:42:10,318
Speaker 1: end of by the front end of a double steel

901
00:42:10,358 --> 00:42:13,678
Speaker 1: situation first and third. So this happens a lot now,

902
00:42:13,718 --> 00:42:15,958
Speaker 1: and if you're watching games at home, be prepared for

903
00:42:15,998 --> 00:42:18,678
Speaker 1: these situations because they do happen a lot. First and third,

904
00:42:18,798 --> 00:42:22,398
Speaker 1: two outs, two strikes on the batter. What the offensive

905
00:42:22,438 --> 00:42:24,478
Speaker 1: team is trying to do here is they realize here

906
00:42:24,478 --> 00:42:27,198
Speaker 1: the run scoring potential is pretty low with two strikes

907
00:42:27,198 --> 00:42:30,678
Speaker 1: on the batter and two outs, and they know that

908
00:42:30,718 --> 00:42:34,478
Speaker 1: the defensive team is prioritizing getting that last out. You're

909
00:42:34,518 --> 00:42:37,678
Speaker 1: so close to getting off the field that you don't

910
00:42:37,718 --> 00:42:40,998
Speaker 1: care as much about defending the running game in that situation,

911
00:42:41,198 --> 00:42:43,518
Speaker 1: especially if there's a left handed hitter in the box.

912
00:42:44,038 --> 00:42:46,598
Speaker 1: That third basement is so far away from the runner

913
00:42:46,638 --> 00:42:49,478
Speaker 1: on third base, they're really not honoring his lead.

914
00:42:49,598 --> 00:42:51,198
Speaker 2: So if you choose to throw down.

915
00:42:51,118 --> 00:42:53,438
Speaker 1: The second base and don't get the runner, you were

916
00:42:53,518 --> 00:42:55,838
Speaker 1: risking a run scoring from third base. In this case,

917
00:42:55,878 --> 00:42:57,598
Speaker 1: it was a right headed hitter. I think it was

918
00:42:57,678 --> 00:43:01,598
Speaker 1: real Muto at the batter's box, But anyway, teams defend

919
00:43:01,598 --> 00:43:03,478
Speaker 1: this very differently, Joe, I've seen a lot of teams

920
00:43:03,478 --> 00:43:06,398
Speaker 1: that will not throw down at all, some teams that

921
00:43:06,478 --> 00:43:10,158
Speaker 1: will throw down. Obviously a lot depends on game situations,

922
00:43:10,198 --> 00:43:13,238
Speaker 1: score in ang those kinds of things. Runner, But in

923
00:43:13,278 --> 00:43:15,718
Speaker 1: this case I give credit to the Phillies that they

924
00:43:15,838 --> 00:43:17,038
Speaker 1: executed this perfectly.

925
00:43:17,078 --> 00:43:18,838
Speaker 2: The runner stopped.

926
00:43:18,918 --> 00:43:21,038
Speaker 1: Actually, as the throw goes down the second base, don't

927
00:43:21,078 --> 00:43:24,678
Speaker 1: run yourself into that third out. Harper read the play correctly,

928
00:43:24,798 --> 00:43:28,238
Speaker 1: seeing that the throw is carrying past the mound. Now

929
00:43:28,558 --> 00:43:31,518
Speaker 1: the middle infield, I think was could tell Marte did

930
00:43:31,638 --> 00:43:33,598
Speaker 1: run up to meet the throw. He read the play,

931
00:43:33,718 --> 00:43:36,038
Speaker 1: read Harper breaking from third, and I think, if he

932
00:43:36,078 --> 00:43:37,798
Speaker 1: makes a good throw, he's got him at the plate.

933
00:43:38,438 --> 00:43:40,758
Speaker 1: But you know, when you do something like this, it's

934
00:43:40,838 --> 00:43:43,078
Speaker 1: like setting a runner from second base with two outs.

935
00:43:43,318 --> 00:43:45,318
Speaker 1: Make you put pressure on the other team to make

936
00:43:45,358 --> 00:43:48,678
Speaker 1: a throw under duress. And Marte made a poor throw.

937
00:43:48,958 --> 00:43:52,838
Speaker 1: He bounced it a little bit offline. Harper scores stolen base.

938
00:43:53,758 --> 00:43:54,318
Speaker 2: There are a lot of.

939
00:43:54,238 --> 00:43:56,158
Speaker 1: Teams, I can tell you, Joe, and you know this,

940
00:43:56,478 --> 00:43:59,278
Speaker 1: they will not even throw down in that situation. With

941
00:43:59,318 --> 00:44:00,958
Speaker 1: two outs and two strikes on the batter, you give

942
00:44:00,958 --> 00:44:04,318
Speaker 1: the base up. In this case, Arizona tried to to

943
00:44:04,358 --> 00:44:07,278
Speaker 1: defend the stolen base and it costs them a run.

944
00:44:07,438 --> 00:44:11,718
Speaker 1: So if you're watching these games, be prepared for that, folks, because,

945
00:44:11,798 --> 00:44:17,318
Speaker 1: as we saw in Arizona, pulling the playoff defensively in

946
00:44:17,358 --> 00:44:19,918
Speaker 1: the major leagues these days is no guarantee teams are

947
00:44:19,918 --> 00:44:20,758
Speaker 1: going to do it.

948
00:44:20,758 --> 00:44:23,998
Speaker 3: Well. There's a lot going on there again, Tommy, really good.

949
00:44:24,558 --> 00:44:26,918
Speaker 3: I mean for me, let's first and there, let's start.

950
00:44:27,238 --> 00:44:29,558
Speaker 3: You're saying it's a full count, two outs, right.

951
00:44:29,558 --> 00:44:31,518
Speaker 2: Not a full count, just two strikes.

952
00:44:31,798 --> 00:44:34,038
Speaker 3: Oh okay, just two strikes. I'm sorry, there's two strikes,

953
00:44:34,318 --> 00:44:36,078
Speaker 3: two strikes on the hitter. For me, first of all,

954
00:44:36,078 --> 00:44:38,558
Speaker 3: what inning is it? That's a big thing for me.

955
00:44:38,678 --> 00:44:40,158
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was early in the game. I think it

956
00:44:40,238 --> 00:44:41,798
Speaker 2: might have been the first or second inning.

957
00:44:42,118 --> 00:44:43,958
Speaker 3: Right, So with me, that would be part of the

958
00:44:44,198 --> 00:44:46,838
Speaker 3: equation where I'm throwing the baseball if it's early in

959
00:44:46,838 --> 00:44:49,518
Speaker 3: the game. The big thing I always wanted to do

960
00:44:49,558 --> 00:44:52,518
Speaker 3: was stay out of the beginning. So under the situation

961
00:44:52,638 --> 00:44:56,438
Speaker 3: that you're describing, if we chose to throw through the

962
00:44:56,478 --> 00:44:57,918
Speaker 3: only way we come up and get the ball and

963
00:44:57,918 --> 00:45:01,038
Speaker 3: throw back to the players, we're absolutely certain that we're

964
00:45:01,038 --> 00:45:03,718
Speaker 3: going to have a chance, a solid chances. Runner to play. Otherwise,

965
00:45:03,958 --> 00:45:07,158
Speaker 3: would be satisfied with just catching the ball and getting

966
00:45:07,198 --> 00:45:09,678
Speaker 3: that runner out between first and second, because I've chosen

967
00:45:10,158 --> 00:45:12,438
Speaker 3: to stat of the beginning right now, I want the out.

968
00:45:12,638 --> 00:45:14,398
Speaker 3: I don't want this anything to continue. Some of this

969
00:45:14,918 --> 00:45:18,798
Speaker 3: could be based on who's on deck, and this guy

970
00:45:18,798 --> 00:45:21,878
Speaker 3: on deck versus my pitcher and this do I really

971
00:45:21,918 --> 00:45:24,438
Speaker 3: not like that at all. Normally the player talking about

972
00:45:24,438 --> 00:45:27,118
Speaker 3: happens with the bottom part of the batting order, guys

973
00:45:27,158 --> 00:45:29,678
Speaker 3: that you know you don't rely on a whole lot

974
00:45:29,718 --> 00:45:34,038
Speaker 3: offensively National League. If this pitcher's part of this equation somehow,

975
00:45:34,318 --> 00:45:36,278
Speaker 3: then you will take more chances to try to steal

976
00:45:36,318 --> 00:45:40,038
Speaker 3: this run first and third, and under those circumstances too,

977
00:45:40,398 --> 00:45:41,798
Speaker 3: more than like you would not throw the ball at

978
00:45:41,798 --> 00:45:43,998
Speaker 3: all because the hitter coming up is not very good

979
00:45:44,398 --> 00:45:48,038
Speaker 3: so early in the game, I would try to it

980
00:45:48,158 --> 00:45:51,798
Speaker 3: might sacrifice, permit the run and get the out now.

981
00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:53,398
Speaker 3: But we're talking to the playoffs now, so this might

982
00:45:53,398 --> 00:45:54,718
Speaker 3: be a little bit different. But this is how I

983
00:45:54,718 --> 00:45:57,158
Speaker 3: presented in spring training. And then the latter part of

984
00:45:57,158 --> 00:45:59,358
Speaker 3: the game again, what's going on specifically, I might be

985
00:45:59,358 --> 00:46:03,038
Speaker 3: more apt to throw under those circumstances. So all these

986
00:46:03,078 --> 00:46:07,278
Speaker 3: things come into play. Regarding the plays themselves, there's also

987
00:46:07,318 --> 00:46:10,358
Speaker 3: the opportunity to do a full arm fake by the catch.

988
00:46:10,358 --> 00:46:12,518
Speaker 3: You got a runner like Bryce Harper at third base,

989
00:46:12,998 --> 00:46:15,198
Speaker 3: it might not be a bad gig to go with

990
00:46:15,238 --> 00:46:17,118
Speaker 3: the full arm fake knowing that he's going to get

991
00:46:17,158 --> 00:46:19,918
Speaker 3: on that right foot early because the moment the catcher

992
00:46:19,918 --> 00:46:21,998
Speaker 3: releases the ball, he wants to break and come home.

993
00:46:22,638 --> 00:46:25,438
Speaker 3: And so that's I would imagine you're not going to

994
00:46:25,518 --> 00:46:28,998
Speaker 3: see Arizona throw through again if that presents itself, and

995
00:46:29,118 --> 00:46:30,838
Speaker 3: may have a full arm fake and have the ball

996
00:46:30,878 --> 00:46:33,398
Speaker 3: throw in the third base or just come up and

997
00:46:33,438 --> 00:46:35,918
Speaker 3: throw the ball at the third base period. These are

998
00:46:35,958 --> 00:46:37,518
Speaker 3: the kind of things you have to consider and think

999
00:46:37,558 --> 00:46:40,198
Speaker 3: about before the game begins. Know your opponent, know what

1000
00:46:40,238 --> 00:46:43,758
Speaker 3: you guys are capable of doing. Arizona's catcher throws really well,

1001
00:46:44,198 --> 00:46:47,878
Speaker 3: and I don't know how good men Martez, a shortstop

1002
00:46:47,878 --> 00:46:49,798
Speaker 3: had a pretty good arm, but I haven't seen him

1003
00:46:49,918 --> 00:46:52,238
Speaker 3: in a while. But the ball coming back, there's a

1004
00:46:52,318 --> 00:46:54,598
Speaker 3: lot going on. It's a perfect throw from the catcher

1005
00:46:54,838 --> 00:46:58,798
Speaker 3: to the middle back to the catcher again. Contact of

1006
00:46:58,878 --> 00:47:00,918
Speaker 3: the game, All that stuff matters to me. So it's

1007
00:47:00,958 --> 00:47:03,198
Speaker 3: not just a cut and dry play, And these are

1008
00:47:03,198 --> 00:47:05,918
Speaker 3: the kind of things that try to evaluate in advance

1009
00:47:05,918 --> 00:47:06,398
Speaker 3: of the moment.

1010
00:47:06,678 --> 00:47:09,318
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the runner has to evaluate as well.

1011
00:47:09,798 --> 00:47:11,638
Speaker 1: When you get to a two strike count, obviously the

1012
00:47:11,718 --> 00:47:13,838
Speaker 1: runner und first has seen a couple of pitches. Maybe

1013
00:47:13,918 --> 00:47:16,558
Speaker 1: do a little false break to see if middle endfielders move.

1014
00:47:16,638 --> 00:47:19,918
Speaker 1: If you see the middle infielders, especially deep and away

1015
00:47:19,958 --> 00:47:22,638
Speaker 1: from the bag, they're not covering. They're not throwing through.

1016
00:47:22,718 --> 00:47:25,038
Speaker 1: If you see that third baseman well off the runner

1017
00:47:25,038 --> 00:47:27,918
Speaker 1: around third base, they are not throwing through, especially if

1018
00:47:27,958 --> 00:47:30,238
Speaker 1: you have any kind of a speed guy at third base.

1019
00:47:31,238 --> 00:47:34,238
Speaker 1: If they're defending the run, that third basement is gonna

1020
00:47:34,238 --> 00:47:36,078
Speaker 1: be a little bit closer to the run around third base.

1021
00:47:36,118 --> 00:47:38,438
Speaker 1: So you're right, there's a lot of variables involved here.

1022
00:47:38,798 --> 00:47:41,358
Speaker 1: One other situation where it came up and it was

1023
00:47:41,478 --> 00:47:45,278
Speaker 1: not operated in terms of the first and third stolen

1024
00:47:45,318 --> 00:47:49,798
Speaker 1: base is in game five, maybe Game four of alcs

1025
00:47:50,238 --> 00:47:51,598
Speaker 1: A Brady who is in the box.

1026
00:47:51,718 --> 00:47:54,638
Speaker 2: Dubon was on first, Altuve was on third.

1027
00:47:54,678 --> 00:47:56,998
Speaker 1: So you have two really good runners on the bases,

1028
00:47:57,878 --> 00:48:00,518
Speaker 1: You've got two outs, a lefty Bradford on the mound

1029
00:48:00,558 --> 00:48:04,878
Speaker 1: with Kyle Tucker, a lefty on deck. And two strikes

1030
00:48:04,918 --> 00:48:08,038
Speaker 1: on a bray you, even though throughout the count I

1031
00:48:08,038 --> 00:48:10,718
Speaker 1: didn't think the Rangers were going to go to throw through,

1032
00:48:11,438 --> 00:48:15,078
Speaker 1: and Dubon did not run, and I was curious about that.

1033
00:48:16,318 --> 00:48:18,478
Speaker 1: And when you think about it, here's what happened. If

1034
00:48:18,558 --> 00:48:22,558
Speaker 1: Dubon runs and steals second base, They're going to walk

1035
00:48:22,598 --> 00:48:25,478
Speaker 1: a bray you and pitch left on left to Tucker,

1036
00:48:25,518 --> 00:48:28,278
Speaker 1: who's the much colder bad when compared to a bray you.

1037
00:48:29,238 --> 00:48:33,118
Speaker 1: So the Astros left Dubon at first base on purpose

1038
00:48:33,238 --> 00:48:36,358
Speaker 1: because that was the matchup that they wanted, a bray

1039
00:48:36,398 --> 00:48:38,718
Speaker 1: you who hits a three run homer. I thought that

1040
00:48:38,838 --> 00:48:42,198
Speaker 1: was brilliant in that case. And if you're Texas on

1041
00:48:42,238 --> 00:48:44,598
Speaker 1: the other side, and maybe you have done this, Joe,

1042
00:48:44,598 --> 00:48:49,398
Speaker 1: but I have not seen managers hardly ever walk to

1043
00:48:49,438 --> 00:48:52,598
Speaker 1: get to a better situation because second base is open.

1044
00:48:52,958 --> 00:48:55,998
Speaker 1: If the guy steals second base, then they walk a

1045
00:48:56,118 --> 00:48:58,558
Speaker 1: braill you, which to me makes no sense. It's just

1046
00:48:58,678 --> 00:49:01,958
Speaker 1: a base being open. What matchup do you want? If

1047
00:49:02,038 --> 00:49:04,318
Speaker 1: you would walk a guy with second and third, why

1048
00:49:04,318 --> 00:49:06,998
Speaker 1: wouldn't you walk them with first and third if the better.

1049
00:49:06,798 --> 00:49:08,198
Speaker 2: Matchup is presented on deck?

1050
00:49:09,038 --> 00:49:11,958
Speaker 1: So I thought it was brilliant by the Astros not

1051
00:49:12,678 --> 00:49:15,038
Speaker 1: to steal that bag. And by the way, the Rangers

1052
00:49:15,078 --> 00:49:17,958
Speaker 1: do throw through, but they trust, as you mentioned him

1053
00:49:18,478 --> 00:49:22,198
Speaker 1: to do that full arm fake if he sees, you know,

1054
00:49:22,358 --> 00:49:24,598
Speaker 1: runner and especially with al two aon third, that might

1055
00:49:24,638 --> 00:49:27,038
Speaker 1: be like Harper where you do that. Or they trust

1056
00:49:27,078 --> 00:49:29,638
Speaker 1: their Midland fielders Simeon and sea or to execute that

1057
00:49:29,678 --> 00:49:31,878
Speaker 1: play well because these are veteran guys they're paying half

1058
00:49:31,878 --> 00:49:34,918
Speaker 1: a billion dollars to So I just think that was

1059
00:49:34,998 --> 00:49:37,518
Speaker 1: interesting where I thought the first and third play was

1060
00:49:37,558 --> 00:49:39,878
Speaker 1: in place and it was they opted not to to

1061
00:49:39,878 --> 00:49:41,958
Speaker 1: make sure a brad you hit got rewarded with a

1062
00:49:41,998 --> 00:49:42,438
Speaker 1: home run.

1063
00:49:42,558 --> 00:49:44,758
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I I will just like from the

1064
00:49:44,798 --> 00:49:47,438
Speaker 3: dugout till my first base coach, until the runners stay there.

1065
00:49:47,638 --> 00:49:50,358
Speaker 3: Stay there, don't run for the reasons you're just talking

1066
00:49:50,358 --> 00:49:53,158
Speaker 3: about right there. You definitely don't want to run right

1067
00:49:53,158 --> 00:49:54,918
Speaker 3: there once you leave the base open. That happened to

1068
00:49:54,958 --> 00:49:57,038
Speaker 3: me to exactly when it happened to me. It was

1069
00:49:57,078 --> 00:49:59,238
Speaker 3: in Midland, Texas. I don't remember what year was. James

1070
00:49:59,238 --> 00:50:02,638
Speaker 3: sap Brand was my hitter. They played behind run at

1071
00:50:02,678 --> 00:50:05,918
Speaker 3: first base. I let him run and then they just

1072
00:50:05,998 --> 00:50:08,038
Speaker 3: walked James and that was the last time that ever

1073
00:50:08,078 --> 00:50:10,158
Speaker 3: happened to me. So that's that's part of the gig,

1074
00:50:10,238 --> 00:50:12,278
Speaker 3: right there. You got it when you when you want to,

1075
00:50:13,598 --> 00:50:15,678
Speaker 3: when you want them to pitch to your guy, I

1076
00:50:15,678 --> 00:50:17,558
Speaker 3: should have had them. I should have my runner stay put.

1077
00:50:17,598 --> 00:50:19,838
Speaker 3: So they pitched the James, but I didn't. But they

1078
00:50:19,878 --> 00:50:21,638
Speaker 3: had their runner stay put, so they pitched a brave

1079
00:50:21,758 --> 00:50:24,238
Speaker 3: and they benefited from that. That's that's all part of

1080
00:50:24,278 --> 00:50:26,678
Speaker 3: the strategy in that particular moment. There's no question, and

1081
00:50:26,718 --> 00:50:28,358
Speaker 3: I totally understand.

1082
00:50:27,918 --> 00:50:29,918
Speaker 2: That the strategy is great, isn't it.

1083
00:50:29,998 --> 00:50:32,438
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're a fan watching these games at home,

1084
00:50:32,638 --> 00:50:34,958
Speaker 1: and we all love it right the second guessing you

1085
00:50:34,998 --> 00:50:37,798
Speaker 1: should have done this, you should have done that. I

1086
00:50:37,838 --> 00:50:41,838
Speaker 1: can tell you that most people watching games a casual fan,

1087
00:50:42,238 --> 00:50:44,438
Speaker 1: they're looking at baseball as a game of checkers, and

1088
00:50:44,478 --> 00:50:47,918
Speaker 1: what's going on is chess. There are so many more

1089
00:50:48,798 --> 00:50:52,558
Speaker 1: levels to decision making than the average fan knows. And

1090
00:50:52,638 --> 00:50:55,118
Speaker 1: you know this, Joe, obviously, and a lot of it

1091
00:50:55,158 --> 00:50:58,358
Speaker 1: has to do with what your players can do. You know,

1092
00:50:58,478 --> 00:51:00,398
Speaker 1: Jim Leland was great, I thought, and he put it

1093
00:51:00,398 --> 00:51:02,878
Speaker 1: well that you know, a manager's job is that you

1094
00:51:02,918 --> 00:51:06,758
Speaker 1: put players in the best situation where they can succeed.

1095
00:51:07,118 --> 00:51:09,758
Speaker 1: And for instance, asking a guy to bunt who's not

1096
00:51:09,798 --> 00:51:11,438
Speaker 1: a good bunter, it's not a good idea.

1097
00:51:12,158 --> 00:51:14,558
Speaker 2: You know, maybe a good idea in a vacuum. Hey,

1098
00:51:14,598 --> 00:51:15,318
Speaker 2: we need a bun here.

1099
00:51:15,318 --> 00:51:17,358
Speaker 1: But if a guy has never done it, don't ask

1100
00:51:17,438 --> 00:51:19,718
Speaker 1: him to do it. If a guy can't handle the

1101
00:51:19,798 --> 00:51:21,758
Speaker 1: ninth inning, he's better off on the seventh eighth inning,

1102
00:51:21,798 --> 00:51:24,518
Speaker 1: don't ask him to close the game. All these things

1103
00:51:24,558 --> 00:51:27,238
Speaker 1: come into play, and the calculus of what a manager

1104
00:51:27,318 --> 00:51:30,278
Speaker 1: has to figure out it is so involved. I'll give

1105
00:51:30,278 --> 00:51:33,478
Speaker 1: you another example real quick. We talked about Framber Valdez.

1106
00:51:33,638 --> 00:51:36,318
Speaker 1: He's got the yips thrown on the bases, he really does.

1107
00:51:36,958 --> 00:51:40,038
Speaker 1: And I asked Bruce Bocci, I asked Marcus Simon about

1108
00:51:40,078 --> 00:51:40,878
Speaker 1: bunting on this guy.

1109
00:51:41,038 --> 00:51:42,478
Speaker 2: Basically, they don't have a guy who can get a

1110
00:51:42,478 --> 00:51:44,878
Speaker 2: bunt down, so that's not in play.

1111
00:51:44,878 --> 00:51:47,358
Speaker 1: I mean, like that Robbie Grossman had that swinging Brent

1112
00:51:47,438 --> 00:51:51,678
Speaker 1: and Valdez on Q threw it away. But yeah, the

1113
00:51:52,038 --> 00:51:54,798
Speaker 1: calculus Joe for a manager and the decisions that he

1114
00:51:54,998 --> 00:51:59,238
Speaker 1: makes are just so so involved and has to be

1115
00:51:59,278 --> 00:52:02,078
Speaker 1: done in real time, which is super fast. In these

1116
00:52:02,118 --> 00:52:04,998
Speaker 1: postseason games. It's a so much more than what we're

1117
00:52:04,998 --> 00:52:06,038
Speaker 1: watching on television.

1118
00:52:06,438 --> 00:52:09,478
Speaker 3: Quickly, I had a pitcher of Matt Garza who had

1119
00:52:09,518 --> 00:52:11,718
Speaker 3: that same issue, and we were playing in the playoffs

1120
00:52:11,718 --> 00:52:15,478
Speaker 3: against the Red Sox, and it was pretty obvious, I

1121
00:52:15,518 --> 00:52:18,758
Speaker 3: mean very obvious with Maddie. So before the game he

1122
00:52:18,798 --> 00:52:20,678
Speaker 3: was pitching. I can't remember which number. It might have been,

1123
00:52:20,798 --> 00:52:24,478
Speaker 3: game seven, I'm not sure, but we were playing at

1124
00:52:24,478 --> 00:52:27,718
Speaker 3: the trap. So Hickey, Jim Hicky, my pitching coach, took

1125
00:52:27,958 --> 00:52:31,038
Speaker 3: guards down to al laying field and just worked on

1126
00:52:31,118 --> 00:52:34,518
Speaker 3: PfP with guards on balls right back to him, throwing

1127
00:52:34,558 --> 00:52:37,398
Speaker 3: the ball to the back to first base, primarily first

1128
00:52:37,398 --> 00:52:40,678
Speaker 3: play the game, Cocoa crisp at the ball hard, right

1129
00:52:40,758 --> 00:52:43,158
Speaker 3: back at Maddie, right back at him, and here we go.

1130
00:52:43,718 --> 00:52:47,038
Speaker 3: He turns and he throws a bullet to first base,

1131
00:52:47,398 --> 00:52:50,518
Speaker 3: out like a chest Ti throw to first base. He's out,

1132
00:52:50,598 --> 00:52:53,518
Speaker 3: and and that ended everything right there. All you have

1133
00:52:53,558 --> 00:52:55,438
Speaker 3: to do is one time, you have to show them

1134
00:52:55,438 --> 00:52:57,718
Speaker 3: one time that you can do it. So Valdez can

1135
00:52:57,758 --> 00:53:00,558
Speaker 3: show them one time he can do that. It stops everything.

1136
00:53:00,638 --> 00:53:03,678
Speaker 3: Johnny Lester would not throw to first base. Tommy famb

1137
00:53:03,718 --> 00:53:08,118
Speaker 3: takes this huge, huge lead at first and he gets

1138
00:53:08,158 --> 00:53:12,198
Speaker 3: in a very uncomfortable situation and Johnny just basically lips

1139
00:53:12,238 --> 00:53:14,638
Speaker 3: the ball over to Rizzo and fam is out by

1140
00:53:14,638 --> 00:53:16,998
Speaker 3: ten feet. You just got to show them one time,

1141
00:53:17,038 --> 00:53:19,118
Speaker 3: and it puts a deceit of doubt in their mind.

1142
00:53:19,478 --> 00:53:21,358
Speaker 3: That's what it really comes down to. If you could

1143
00:53:21,558 --> 00:53:25,118
Speaker 3: just alter their thinking just a little bit, you could

1144
00:53:25,158 --> 00:53:27,638
Speaker 3: take them out of a program or a plan. So

1145
00:53:27,838 --> 00:53:30,118
Speaker 3: it happened with Guards, and it happened with Johnny Lester

1146
00:53:31,078 --> 00:53:34,078
Speaker 3: on that play first base. So Baldez, really, if you

1147
00:53:34,118 --> 00:53:38,158
Speaker 3: could just complete one play decently, it'll change their minds.

1148
00:53:38,518 --> 00:53:39,558
Speaker 2: That's great stuff.

1149
00:53:39,638 --> 00:53:43,198
Speaker 1: I had no idea working on PFPS before a playoff game.

1150
00:53:43,238 --> 00:53:46,798
Speaker 3: That's awesome at alan at Alang, which was right down

1151
00:53:46,838 --> 00:53:47,158
Speaker 3: the street.

1152
00:53:47,198 --> 00:53:47,678
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

1153
00:53:47,878 --> 00:53:52,118
Speaker 1: Well, Hey, I think before this postseason began, Joe, we

1154
00:53:52,158 --> 00:53:54,358
Speaker 1: both liked the Phillies a lot, right, I think we

1155
00:53:54,438 --> 00:53:56,158
Speaker 1: both picked them to win. I think you had them

1156
00:53:56,238 --> 00:54:00,078
Speaker 1: against Brandon Hyde's Orioles. I had them against the Houston Astros.

1157
00:54:01,158 --> 00:54:04,638
Speaker 1: We'll see if we get there, but I'm guessing you've

1158
00:54:04,638 --> 00:54:05,358
Speaker 1: seen nothing to.

1159
00:54:05,318 --> 00:54:07,318
Speaker 2: Take you off of the Phillies so far.

1160
00:54:07,718 --> 00:54:11,158
Speaker 3: No, not at all. Not. Like I said, minus a

1161
00:54:11,158 --> 00:54:14,798
Speaker 3: couple of tough outings by Kimber, they're already there. And

1162
00:54:15,238 --> 00:54:17,678
Speaker 3: to their credit, you know, the two games that they

1163
00:54:17,678 --> 00:54:21,038
Speaker 3: lost in Arizona, they rebounded yesterday really well, and that

1164
00:54:21,158 --> 00:54:23,718
Speaker 3: just speaks to the to the toughest the caliber of

1165
00:54:23,718 --> 00:54:25,598
Speaker 3: that group. So there's no reason to believe that they're

1166
00:54:25,598 --> 00:54:28,678
Speaker 3: not going to go back to Philly and be able

1167
00:54:28,718 --> 00:54:32,078
Speaker 3: to get this thing done. I absolutely believe that it's

1168
00:54:32,158 --> 00:54:33,758
Speaker 3: going to be them, And like I said, Game seven

1169
00:54:33,798 --> 00:54:35,358
Speaker 3: will be interesting. I think it's going to go Game

1170
00:54:35,398 --> 00:54:38,438
Speaker 3: seven between the two Texas teams, and at that point

1171
00:54:38,478 --> 00:54:40,758
Speaker 3: anything anything can happen at that point, but that's going

1172
00:54:40,838 --> 00:54:42,878
Speaker 3: to be rather interesting. Before I move on, just one

1173
00:54:42,918 --> 00:54:46,878
Speaker 3: other point. You're talking about everything. You've just been stating,

1174
00:54:46,918 --> 00:54:49,838
Speaker 3: all the different scenarios that you presented. I really appreciate that.

1175
00:54:50,238 --> 00:54:53,278
Speaker 3: I'd love to see more of that regarding reporting on

1176
00:54:53,318 --> 00:54:57,998
Speaker 3: baseball games, because baseball games reported on primarily about bullpen

1177
00:54:58,078 --> 00:55:01,198
Speaker 3: decisions and whether you bought the right pitcher in or not.

1178
00:55:01,278 --> 00:55:05,758
Speaker 3: That's really pretty much the crux of what get what

1179
00:55:05,878 --> 00:55:07,838
Speaker 3: you're talking about is the reason to me why the

1180
00:55:07,878 --> 00:55:11,518
Speaker 3: game is so interesting and why I would want to

1181
00:55:11,518 --> 00:55:14,398
Speaker 3: believe that youngsters would be more attracted to it because

1182
00:55:14,398 --> 00:55:17,878
Speaker 3: it's such a thinking man's game. Is it's an intellectualism

1183
00:55:17,878 --> 00:55:20,078
Speaker 3: to the game of baseball. So these are the kind

1184
00:55:20,118 --> 00:55:23,198
Speaker 3: of things that Tommy's presenting that really are fascinating. And

1185
00:55:23,198 --> 00:55:25,798
Speaker 3: these are the difference makers in the game to whether

1186
00:55:25,878 --> 00:55:27,638
Speaker 3: the throw or not to throw, whether the pitch or

1187
00:55:27,718 --> 00:55:30,398
Speaker 3: not to pitch this guy. You were talking about the

1188
00:55:30,518 --> 00:55:34,678
Speaker 3: run around third base there when Bryce stole home. If

1189
00:55:34,718 --> 00:55:36,198
Speaker 3: there's a left handed hitter up there, I used to

1190
00:55:36,278 --> 00:55:38,638
Speaker 3: have my guy stand on the bag, stand on the bags,

1191
00:55:38,638 --> 00:55:40,958
Speaker 3: then on the bag right on third base in order

1192
00:55:40,998 --> 00:55:43,998
Speaker 3: to prevent that from happening at all. Because the left

1193
00:55:43,998 --> 00:55:46,798
Speaker 3: hand hitter is shown via a chart, there's no way

1194
00:55:46,798 --> 00:55:48,518
Speaker 3: he's going to get the ball to the third base side.

1195
00:55:48,558 --> 00:55:50,358
Speaker 3: He doesn't do it. If he does, it's going to

1196
00:55:50,358 --> 00:55:52,198
Speaker 3: be up to middle or on the pull side. So

1197
00:55:52,318 --> 00:55:54,078
Speaker 3: this is the nuance of the game that I'd love

1198
00:55:54,118 --> 00:55:57,958
Speaker 3: to see spoken about more or reported upon more in

1199
00:55:57,998 --> 00:56:00,838
Speaker 3: a postgame situation. I don't know if the time permits.

1200
00:56:00,838 --> 00:56:03,558
Speaker 3: I don't even know if if anybody believes anybody's interested,

1201
00:56:03,558 --> 00:56:05,438
Speaker 3: But this is stuff to me that is very interesting,

1202
00:56:05,958 --> 00:56:09,558
Speaker 3: and your presentations there around the money. And also you

1203
00:56:09,638 --> 00:56:12,118
Speaker 3: like right down to your your definition, and you know

1204
00:56:12,158 --> 00:56:16,358
Speaker 3: about the position of fielders infielders back in the middle,

1205
00:56:16,438 --> 00:56:18,118
Speaker 3: meaning there's going to be no throat coming down to

1206
00:56:18,198 --> 00:56:20,238
Speaker 3: second base, so just go ahead and take it. All.

1207
00:56:20,278 --> 00:56:23,038
Speaker 3: This stuff is Germaine and that's the kind of stuff

1208
00:56:23,038 --> 00:56:24,198
Speaker 3: I'd like to see discuss more.

1209
00:56:24,598 --> 00:56:28,398
Speaker 1: Amen to that, brother, because I'm with you on in

1210
00:56:28,438 --> 00:56:30,438
Speaker 1: the most part, just in a general sense, the way

1211
00:56:30,558 --> 00:56:35,918
Speaker 1: games have reported covered whatever it does tend to be basically,

1212
00:56:36,038 --> 00:56:40,758
Speaker 1: you know, an exercise and second guessing on bullpen decisions

1213
00:56:40,758 --> 00:56:44,438
Speaker 1: that don't work out. It's basically it's all autopsy. What happened,

1214
00:56:45,518 --> 00:56:47,718
Speaker 1: Tell me what's going to happen. Tell me what I

1215
00:56:47,718 --> 00:56:50,238
Speaker 1: should be looking at as a baseball fan. That's what

1216
00:56:50,358 --> 00:56:52,638
Speaker 1: I want to know. I think one of the best

1217
00:56:52,678 --> 00:56:56,678
Speaker 1: things about baseball is the anticipation of action, even almost

1218
00:56:56,678 --> 00:56:59,198
Speaker 1: more so than the action itself. We all love home runs,

1219
00:56:59,198 --> 00:57:01,918
Speaker 1: but they happen out of the blue, right the idea

1220
00:57:01,918 --> 00:57:04,438
Speaker 1: of what's going to happen next. If you can get

1221
00:57:04,438 --> 00:57:08,318
Speaker 1: into the reasons why something might happen, and then if

1222
00:57:08,318 --> 00:57:11,478
Speaker 1: it plays out or it doesn't play out, you've answered

1223
00:57:11,478 --> 00:57:15,798
Speaker 1: a question. In your mind, and that's stimulating the idea

1224
00:57:15,878 --> 00:57:18,438
Speaker 1: of looking forward in the game of baseball, to me

1225
00:57:18,798 --> 00:57:22,078
Speaker 1: is more interesting then looking back. So the more we

1226
00:57:22,118 --> 00:57:24,638
Speaker 1: can do that, I think that the better the experience

1227
00:57:24,758 --> 00:57:28,198
Speaker 1: is for the reporter, the analyst, the viewer, whoever.

1228
00:57:28,398 --> 00:57:30,558
Speaker 3: That's the dugout. You're talking about the dugout right there,

1229
00:57:30,598 --> 00:57:34,678
Speaker 3: and you know the reporting has really become an exercise

1230
00:57:34,718 --> 00:57:39,638
Speaker 3: and outcome bias. Like you're saying, primarily your description of

1231
00:57:39,918 --> 00:57:42,158
Speaker 3: looking into the crystal ball, Yeah, that's what you do

1232
00:57:42,198 --> 00:57:45,998
Speaker 3: in the dugout. You're always working in advance of the moment. Always,

1233
00:57:46,158 --> 00:57:48,878
Speaker 3: always are. You have to be. Sometimes it might just

1234
00:57:48,918 --> 00:57:51,558
Speaker 3: be that any because sometimes it could be twinings in front,

1235
00:57:52,478 --> 00:57:56,638
Speaker 3: whether it's with your pitchers, the potential pinch hitter, you know,

1236
00:57:56,758 --> 00:58:02,118
Speaker 3: just little nuance that you may decide to interject because

1237
00:58:02,278 --> 00:58:04,838
Speaker 3: in a game like the signs me miss a sign.

1238
00:58:04,998 --> 00:58:07,678
Speaker 3: That's if you're looking at doug out after a miss sign,

1239
00:58:07,718 --> 00:58:10,718
Speaker 3: that's the only time I'm going to be noticeably upset.

1240
00:58:11,718 --> 00:58:14,798
Speaker 3: You wait all game, You've thought about this, You wait

1241
00:58:14,918 --> 00:58:18,918
Speaker 3: all game for one particular moment to occur, whether okay,

1242
00:58:18,958 --> 00:58:23,278
Speaker 3: first and third, the safety squete situation now I need

1243
00:58:23,278 --> 00:58:24,678
Speaker 3: my hitter to get the sign, and you might run

1244
00:58:24,678 --> 00:58:26,598
Speaker 3: around first base to do the right thing, you might

1245
00:58:26,678 --> 00:58:28,078
Speaker 3: run around third base to do the right thing, and

1246
00:58:28,318 --> 00:58:30,038
Speaker 3: they all need to get the sign in order to

1247
00:58:30,078 --> 00:58:32,318
Speaker 3: get this done. And when you miss that sign, because

1248
00:58:32,358 --> 00:58:36,478
Speaker 3: the situation is ripe, that really really does bother me.

1249
00:58:36,838 --> 00:58:39,598
Speaker 3: So moments like that, when you you've worked really hard

1250
00:58:39,598 --> 00:58:42,238
Speaker 3: to get to a certain point of the game, you

1251
00:58:42,318 --> 00:58:46,198
Speaker 3: cannot miss a sign. And I know that happened. I

1252
00:58:46,238 --> 00:58:51,158
Speaker 3: think in Baltimore in that game with the they missed

1253
00:58:51,158 --> 00:58:53,878
Speaker 3: a sign. And then, like Zim used to say, when

1254
00:58:53,878 --> 00:58:57,878
Speaker 3: they're missing signs, you're not managing. That was Zim's line

1255
00:58:57,918 --> 00:59:00,478
Speaker 3: to me. You're not managing if the signs you're given

1256
00:59:00,678 --> 00:59:04,598
Speaker 3: are not being gotten. And Preston gomet God, one of

1257
00:59:04,638 --> 00:59:08,758
Speaker 3: the best baseball men ever, always accused us of making

1258
00:59:08,758 --> 00:59:12,478
Speaker 3: our signs too complicated for players. Listen, if they can't

1259
00:59:12,518 --> 00:59:15,238
Speaker 3: get your signs, what good are they? And it's true.

1260
00:59:15,238 --> 00:59:17,598
Speaker 3: I mean, you always wanted to make things complicated because

1261
00:59:18,358 --> 00:59:20,878
Speaker 3: you're worried about the other team getting your signs, whereas

1262
00:59:20,918 --> 00:59:23,318
Speaker 3: your players can't. This is the stuff to me that

1263
00:59:23,438 --> 00:59:27,838
Speaker 3: really needs to be doubbed into more deeply, and that's

1264
00:59:27,878 --> 00:59:30,198
Speaker 3: what we're doing right here, right now, and all your

1265
00:59:30,998 --> 00:59:32,718
Speaker 3: presentations have been right on the money.

1266
00:59:33,078 --> 00:59:36,158
Speaker 1: Hey real quick, Joe, did you ask for confirmation signs

1267
00:59:36,198 --> 00:59:39,038
Speaker 1: for your players, especially in a safety squeeze or suicide

1268
00:59:39,078 --> 00:59:39,878
Speaker 1: squeeze situation?

1269
00:59:40,198 --> 00:59:44,598
Speaker 3: No, I didn't because sometimes that's obvious, right I felt,

1270
00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:47,638
Speaker 3: you know, normally it was certain guys in the lineup

1271
00:59:47,638 --> 00:59:49,598
Speaker 3: that we're going to be the bunters, right, You're not

1272
00:59:49,638 --> 00:59:52,358
Speaker 3: everyboike you said earlier, not everybody you can ask them

1273
00:59:52,358 --> 00:59:54,478
Speaker 3: to bunt the safety squeeze, You're not. They're not good

1274
00:59:54,518 --> 00:59:56,598
Speaker 3: at it. They can't do it. A lot of times.

1275
00:59:56,678 --> 00:59:58,878
Speaker 3: With that in mind, the part of the batting order,

1276
00:59:59,958 --> 01:00:02,558
Speaker 3: with being the guys in front of those potentially could

1277
01:00:02,558 --> 01:00:05,158
Speaker 3: be the runner at third base and Heyward, we running

1278
01:00:05,158 --> 01:00:07,318
Speaker 3: third base. God, I love running the play, you know,

1279
01:00:07,398 --> 01:00:10,038
Speaker 3: or when Hobby was at third base, love running the play.

1280
01:00:10,958 --> 01:00:13,678
Speaker 3: So who's hitting right now and how good are they

1281
01:00:13,758 --> 01:00:16,038
Speaker 3: at this particular play, and then you really look forward

1282
01:00:16,078 --> 01:00:19,798
Speaker 3: to that opportunity and obviously they're running first base selling it.

1283
01:00:19,838 --> 01:00:22,918
Speaker 3: So it's normally like the same cachet of players working

1284
01:00:22,958 --> 01:00:24,958
Speaker 3: this play based on the part of the batting order

1285
01:00:25,038 --> 01:00:27,838
Speaker 3: and I'm not gonna have Bryce Harper, safety, Sueyson, or

1286
01:00:27,918 --> 01:00:30,518
Speaker 3: Kyle Schweber, whatever. It'd be like Rojas in the lower

1287
01:00:30,518 --> 01:00:32,838
Speaker 3: part of the batting order. Maybe even Brandon March possibly,

1288
01:00:33,078 --> 01:00:35,798
Speaker 3: but not right now. So all of this stuff gets

1289
01:00:35,878 --> 01:00:39,958
Speaker 3: kind of clumped together, and the same guys are normally

1290
01:00:39,998 --> 01:00:42,678
Speaker 3: part of this particular play based on where they normally

1291
01:00:42,798 --> 01:00:43,998
Speaker 3: hit in the batting order.

1292
01:00:44,198 --> 01:00:47,838
Speaker 1: Great stuff, and the postseason just getting better finally, by

1293
01:00:47,878 --> 01:00:50,198
Speaker 1: the way, because we went the first eight series without

1294
01:00:50,198 --> 01:00:52,678
Speaker 1: a series going the maximum number of games. So I'm

1295
01:00:52,718 --> 01:00:54,758
Speaker 1: not sure if we'll get there in either LCS, but

1296
01:00:54,798 --> 01:00:55,878
Speaker 1: we've got a chance.

1297
01:00:57,078 --> 01:00:59,318
Speaker 2: We had a great couple of games the other night.

1298
01:00:59,358 --> 01:01:02,518
Speaker 1: Actually, it was the first day at baseball postseason history

1299
01:01:02,558 --> 01:01:05,078
Speaker 1: where we had two games with comebacks in the eighth

1300
01:01:05,158 --> 01:01:08,198
Speaker 1: inning or later. That was pretty cool. So it's starting

1301
01:01:08,198 --> 01:01:11,438
Speaker 1: to heat up. I think October Baseball finally is here

1302
01:01:11,478 --> 01:01:15,198
Speaker 1: in terms of the drama, the decisions, and we'll always

1303
01:01:15,278 --> 01:01:18,438
Speaker 1: be here for you to break it all down, and again,

1304
01:01:18,518 --> 01:01:21,438
Speaker 1: not just to break it down, but to anticipate what's

1305
01:01:21,438 --> 01:01:24,878
Speaker 1: coming next. What's coming next is Joe Madden closing the

1306
01:01:24,918 --> 01:01:26,958
Speaker 1: door for us here, taking care of the final frame

1307
01:01:26,998 --> 01:01:29,998
Speaker 1: here where you got to end this latest edition of

1308
01:01:30,038 --> 01:01:30,758
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe.

1309
01:01:31,158 --> 01:01:32,918
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, tell me again, great job. I

1310
01:01:32,918 --> 01:01:35,758
Speaker 3: mean that to me is what situations or show should

1311
01:01:35,758 --> 01:01:38,398
Speaker 3: be more like this. If you're talking about baseball and

1312
01:01:38,438 --> 01:01:40,718
Speaker 3: day baseball any time of the year, but especially this

1313
01:01:40,798 --> 01:01:42,918
Speaker 3: time of the year, this is where your mind should go.

1314
01:01:42,958 --> 01:01:44,758
Speaker 3: This is how you should watch a game. So for me,

1315
01:01:44,838 --> 01:01:47,398
Speaker 3: I went to Herman Melville again, the guy that talked

1316
01:01:47,398 --> 01:01:49,198
Speaker 3: about your insular ta heat. You go there when you're

1317
01:01:50,318 --> 01:01:53,558
Speaker 3: having difficult moments. But this is outstanding and this is

1318
01:01:53,558 --> 01:01:56,638
Speaker 3: something I really try to get across to place every

1319
01:01:56,678 --> 01:01:59,278
Speaker 3: place that I work. It is better to fail in

1320
01:01:59,398 --> 01:02:03,758
Speaker 3: originality than to succeed in imitation. That resonates with me

1321
01:02:04,518 --> 01:02:10,438
Speaker 3: so soundly. Everybody wants to always be the copying Listen,

1322
01:02:10,478 --> 01:02:13,598
Speaker 3: there's times that you do look at something that you like,

1323
01:02:14,118 --> 01:02:17,038
Speaker 3: when you try to decipher it and put your own

1324
01:02:18,878 --> 01:02:21,718
Speaker 3: spin on it or methods on it. But go out

1325
01:02:21,718 --> 01:02:23,318
Speaker 3: there and be an original, man, Go out there and

1326
01:02:23,318 --> 01:02:25,638
Speaker 3: be an original. Just make it be only one of you,

1327
01:02:25,718 --> 01:02:28,318
Speaker 3: and when that happens, something special occurs.

1328
01:02:28,318 --> 01:02:31,158
Speaker 1: Look at the Phillies right now, Oh man, I love

1329
01:02:31,478 --> 01:02:35,398
Speaker 1: love that advice. Joe and in any endeavor, any field.

1330
01:02:35,438 --> 01:02:37,998
Speaker 1: And he made me think of the great Vin Scully

1331
01:02:38,958 --> 01:02:42,038
Speaker 1: when he started out as a young broadcaster. Was Red Barber,

1332
01:02:42,078 --> 01:02:44,878
Speaker 1: who told him basically the same thing in different words.

1333
01:02:45,438 --> 01:02:47,878
Speaker 1: You know, Vin Scully is like, you know, I want

1334
01:02:47,918 --> 01:02:49,398
Speaker 1: to be like you. I want to be one of

1335
01:02:49,398 --> 01:02:52,358
Speaker 1: the great broadcasters. How do I do that? I basically

1336
01:02:52,358 --> 01:02:56,358
Speaker 1: told him, be yourself, because when you try to essentially

1337
01:02:56,478 --> 01:03:00,638
Speaker 1: copy someone else that you admire, as read Barber told him,

1338
01:03:00,678 --> 01:03:03,918
Speaker 1: you're watering your own wine. There's only one of you.

1339
01:03:04,118 --> 01:03:07,238
Speaker 1: There's nothing better than the original, the uniqueness of you,

1340
01:03:07,958 --> 01:03:09,278
Speaker 1: and that's the great to do that.

1341
01:03:09,478 --> 01:03:10,598
Speaker 2: They don't do.

1342
01:03:10,678 --> 01:03:14,758
Speaker 1: They learn from others, absolutely, but the sense of self

1343
01:03:14,838 --> 01:03:17,198
Speaker 1: has to be unique, and that's what makes you you,

1344
01:03:17,478 --> 01:03:21,318
Speaker 1: is what you really have to succeed with. So Harmon Melville,

1345
01:03:21,478 --> 01:03:23,438
Speaker 1: that was a really good one. Joe, that works any

1346
01:03:23,478 --> 01:03:23,998
Speaker 1: day of the year.

1347
01:03:24,278 --> 01:03:26,438
Speaker 3: That's the organization I'm looking to work for right there.

1348
01:03:26,518 --> 01:03:28,958
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll have to find that organization. There's

1349
01:03:28,958 --> 01:03:30,038
Speaker 1: not too many left like that.

1350
01:03:30,198 --> 01:03:34,118
Speaker 3: But it's the Book of Joe organization, that's what it is.

1351
01:03:34,358 --> 01:03:37,238
Speaker 2: Hey, lots of postseason baseball to talk about. Next time.

1352
01:03:37,238 --> 01:03:39,318
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with you right here to break

1353
01:03:39,358 --> 01:03:41,678
Speaker 2: it all down. Thanks Joe, Thank you, Brother be Well

1354
01:03:41,718 --> 01:03:42,278
Speaker 2: b thank you.

1355
01:03:51,118 --> 01:03:54,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1356
01:03:54,558 --> 01:03:59,518
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1357
01:03:59,638 --> 01:04:01,438
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.