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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: vest start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlyn, do you want to open up

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Speaker 2: a salon slash restaurant with me?

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Speaker 3: Yes? I do?

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Speaker 2: Okay, cool, I can't do either of the things.

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Speaker 4: Oh well, wait till you see the dance.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Well I'm also really good at dancing, so.

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Speaker 5: Let's do that. Incredible, incredible. I think that that was

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Speaker 5: a really that was strong. I was like, should we

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Speaker 5: start to deceive each other? But just in general, just

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Speaker 5: in life anyways, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: My name's Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlyn Dante, and

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Speaker 2: this is our show where we examine movies through an

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Speaker 2: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping

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Speaker 2: off point.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely true.

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Speaker 3: But what is that? Though?

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Speaker 5: Well, there's a lot of different versions of the Bechdel's test.

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Speaker 5: It is originally created as a joke, as a bit.

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Speaker 4: As a goof yes, boof, a goof.

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Speaker 5: Uh by Alison Bechdel in the eighties for her incredible

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Speaker 5: comics series Dikes to Watch Out For, often called the

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Speaker 5: Bechdel Wallace Test because she co created it with her

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Speaker 5: friend Liz Wallace. Our version of the test that we

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Speaker 5: use requires that two people of a marginalized gender with

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Speaker 5: names talk to each other about something other than a

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Speaker 5: man for two lines of dialogue.

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Speaker 4: And it should be plot impactful dialogue.

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Speaker 5: And that's the test. Most movies don't pass this one

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Speaker 5: spoiler alert does.

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Speaker 2: It does because the movie we're talking about today is BAPS, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. Same your Titanic came out. Sorry to

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Speaker 2: mention it.

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Speaker 5: That was my first note. It's like greatest yudent film.

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Speaker 5: We have a returning guest today, is it Third Ford?

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Speaker 3: I think time.

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Speaker 5: That's a jacket.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like Steve Martinette Saturday Night Live. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Basically, yes, she's the host of Ihearts. There are no

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Speaker 2: girls on the Internet. It's Bridget tod welcome back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I was telling Caitlin off

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Speaker 3: Mike that y'all could not have picked a better movie

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Speaker 3: for me to talk about that I feel more strongly about.

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Speaker 3: So I am so excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we're so excited to have you tell us your

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Speaker 2: relationship with Baps.

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Speaker 3: Well, I remember very distinctly watching this for the first

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Speaker 3: time at a slumber party in the nineties. It was

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Speaker 3: one of those do you ever have memories of going

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Speaker 3: to Blockbuster and picking out a movie and being so

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Speaker 3: excited and then getting that tub of popcorn that they

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Speaker 3: had or you put it in the microwave. I have

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Speaker 3: a clear memory of my mind of like going during

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Speaker 3: a sleepover to rent this movie and watching it and

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Speaker 3: sitting on my stomach and like just loving it.

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Speaker 5: I love memories like that too, where it's like I

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Speaker 5: feel like the thing that sticks with me the strongest

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Speaker 5: is like the politics among usually a group of girls

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Speaker 5: in the Blockbuster, where you're trying to reach a consensus

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Speaker 5: and there's like people calling each other over from one

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Speaker 5: wall to the other being like that this one and

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Speaker 5: then you have to debate.

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Speaker 4: It's exciting and this is such a sleepover movie.

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Speaker 3: It is, and so one of the reasons why I'm

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Speaker 3: so excited to talk about it is that it is

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Speaker 3: a movie that when it came out, was like controversial.

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Speaker 3: People liked it, didn't like it, people had a lot

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Speaker 3: to say about it, and I loved it from the beginning.

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Speaker 3: I loved it then, I love it now. If folks

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Speaker 3: ever watched Real Housewives of Atlanta, there's a scene where

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Speaker 3: one woman is trying to humiliate another woman when she's

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Speaker 3: flowing a costume party, and so she's giving everybody glamorous

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Speaker 3: Hollywood celebrities to come dressed as It's like, oh, you

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Speaker 3: come dressed as Diana Ross, you come dressed as Billie

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Speaker 3: Holliday And she's like, I want you to come dressed

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Speaker 3: as halle Berry from BAPS, And it's meant to be

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Speaker 3: like a deep insult. So it's definitely a movie that

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Speaker 3: holds a lot of wow. Co Yeah, she doesn't spoiler,

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Speaker 3: she doesn't do she comes dressed as halle Berry and

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Speaker 3: Dorothy Dandridge to sort of get around it, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was like an.

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Speaker 2: Insult, ridiculous because halle Berry's looks in this movie iconic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the costuming is unbelievable. It helped me get around

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Speaker 5: a lot of plot dissonance, I.

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Speaker 3: Know, and I do feel like the joke of the

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Speaker 3: movie is supposed to be like, look how tacky these

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Speaker 3: women look, But there are multiple outfits and halle Berry

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Speaker 3: wears where I'm like, I would wear that today, no problem.

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Speaker 3: If that was in my closet, I will be very happy.

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Speaker 2: Her character Natalie Dscell reads character like they're looking terrific.

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Speaker 5: It's true, It's true, And I speaking to your point,

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Speaker 5: Bridget I was really I wasn't aware of the discourse

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Speaker 5: around this movie when it came out. It's always interesting

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Speaker 5: covering a movie that, like the way it was received,

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Speaker 5: was so wrong, and then having to come back around gosh,

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Speaker 5: this movie is my brother's age twenty seven years later,

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Speaker 5: scary and sort of revisit it, which I'm glad that

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Speaker 5: some writers have, but not as many as I would

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Speaker 5: have expected.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to prep for this, I read Roger Ebert's original

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Speaker 3: review of this movie. Eviscerated it, like skewered it. It

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Speaker 3: was worst of lists. And I, even if I don't

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Speaker 3: agree with Roger Ebert, I usually love reading his reviews

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Speaker 3: and like he could not stand this movie.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm excited to dig into that.

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Speaker 5: I don't know Roger Ebert like when he hits, he

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Speaker 5: hits what he misses it's so embarrassing, and I feel

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Speaker 5: like we have had a feud with his ghosts on

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Speaker 5: this show for many years.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, it's the thing that we have talked about

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Speaker 2: quite a lot where I mean this movie. First of all,

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Speaker 2: it was a box office flop, unfortunately, and most critics

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Speaker 2: hated it. But as we've talked about a lot on

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Speaker 2: the show, most of the critics reviewing movies in like

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Speaker 2: at least major publications in ninety seven were white men.

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Speaker 2: This is a movie about two black women made by

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Speaker 2: black filmmakers, and so a lot of critics at that

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Speaker 2: time were like, well, this movie isn't about someone who

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Speaker 2: looks like me, and so therefore it's not for me,

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Speaker 2: and therefore I don't understand it, and I don't like it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah there's and they're also we can save it for later.

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Speaker 5: But I feel like there was a lot of like

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Speaker 5: respectability politics encoded into the reviews that I was reading,

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Speaker 5: where like it was white reviewers deciding what was appropriate

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Speaker 5: in terms of like how black women could be represented.

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Speaker 5: It was an interesting thing to get into because then

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Speaker 5: you also read interviews with the writer Troy Bayer, and

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Speaker 5: she's like, I hated Robert Townsend's directorial choices and I

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Speaker 5: don't like the movie, and so you're like well, a

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Speaker 5: lot of things are going on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point, And like, I love Robert

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Speaker 3: Townsend absolutely. Another movie that he had made was Hollywood Shuffle,

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Speaker 3: So like, he definitely has somebody who was interested in

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Speaker 3: playing with satire and stereotypes around culture and blackness. I

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Speaker 3: make a larger point, whether or not that point like

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Speaker 3: lands or false flat or whatever. I think he was

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Speaker 3: clearly doing something with this movie, and I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of the film reviewers maybe missed what he was doing.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I read the same thing as you, Jamie,

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Speaker 3: that one of the screenwriters on this movie was like,

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Speaker 3: I hated it. I had a lot of issues with

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Speaker 3: the script and this and that, and so I want

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Speaker 3: to take that into account too. But I do think

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Speaker 3: that some of the reviews that make this sound like

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Speaker 3: it was just a vapid, cruel movie bashing working class

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Speaker 3: black women. I don't see that, Jamie.

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Speaker 2: What is your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 5: I had not seen this movie before, and that's sort

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Speaker 5: of the beginning, middle, and an end of it.

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Speaker 4: I knew of it, and I.

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Speaker 5: Didn't know that Troy Bayer had written it. She's just

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Speaker 5: like a really interesting person. The more I was reading

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Speaker 5: about her, the Bore. I was like, she's just like

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Speaker 5: she started as a sesame street kid and she's like

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Speaker 5: Caitlin Durante Mode has.

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Speaker 4: A million degrees and a million things.

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Speaker 2: I would never mention it, but thank you for bringing

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Speaker 2: it up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, she has lived many lives, and I thought it

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Speaker 5: was interesting again because I feel like so many times

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Speaker 5: when we cover a movie, we're like, wonder how the

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Speaker 5: writer felt about how the adaptation of their work translated

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Speaker 5: to the screen, And Trey Byer was very outspoken about it, So, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I hadn't seen it before. I think there's so much

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Speaker 5: to love about this movie. It's such a sleepover movie.

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Speaker 5: It's so clear who the movie's for, and everyone who

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Speaker 5: is vocally outspoken about this movie were nowhere near who

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Speaker 5: the movie's for. So I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlin,

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Speaker 5: what's your history?

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Speaker 2: I had also never seen it, though I know that

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Speaker 2: it's been a request on the show from like a

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Speaker 2: few select listeners. It's a cult classic, right, so it's

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Speaker 2: not something that like tons and tons and tons of

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Speaker 2: people are being like, you gotta cover this movie, but

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Speaker 2: like the people who are requesting it are like, you

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Speaker 2: have to do this movie. They're very fervent.

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Speaker 5: About Baps and Muriel's wedding, Like the listeners who want

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Speaker 5: it wanted badly.

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Speaker 3: If any of those folks are listening, who like really

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Speaker 3: have been requesting it, I hope I do it justice.

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Speaker 3: I guess I'll just say.

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Speaker 5: That we've brought in a three timer. We've brought in

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Speaker 5: a hitter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, you'll do great. This will be great, Everything will

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Speaker 2: be great. We're gonna live forever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Should I do the recap and we'll go from there,

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Speaker 2: Let's do it. Okay. So we are in Decatur, Georgia.

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Speaker 2: We meet two friends, Nissi that's Hallie Berry and Mickey

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Speaker 2: that's Natalie to sell read rest in Peace. They work

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Speaker 2: at a soul food restaurant that's owned by Bernie Mack.

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Speaker 2: Loved seeing him already. You're like, I'm in, I'm in.

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Speaker 3: Can I say one thing about this? Yeah, not to

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Speaker 3: hope this is it doesn't derail things. But I just

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Speaker 3: want to say, Bernie mac rest in peace. Before he died,

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Speaker 3: he has a chronic illness, or had a chronic illness

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Speaker 3: called parcedosis, which my father also had. And so it's

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Speaker 3: near and dear to me. But folks might not know

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Speaker 3: that the University of Illinois Hospital Center has the Bernie

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Speaker 3: mac Center for Sarcarnosi's research, and I donate every year.

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Speaker 3: Folks should donate. Oh my god, it's an undertreated, understudied

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Speaker 3: chronic illness that disproportionately impacts black folks, and so it's

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Speaker 3: a cause that's near to me. So please donate if

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Speaker 3: you've got extra change. And thank you University of Illinois

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Speaker 3: for studying this undertreated illness.

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Speaker 5: Whow we will link to that. I had no idea.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for letting me give back.

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Speaker 2: What Oh, of course, yeah, we'll support So yes, Bernie

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Speaker 2: Mack is there. He's running the restaurant. Nissi and Mickey,

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Speaker 2: they're best friends. They have similar esthetics in that they

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Speaker 2: have really long fingernails. They're always wearing elaborate hairdoos that

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Speaker 2: Nissi does because she's an aspiring salon owner.

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Speaker 5: She's technically making sausage at the beginning. But I consider

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Speaker 5: that the hot dog representation of the movie as like,

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Speaker 5: if a hot dog doesn't show up later, this movie

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Speaker 5: still passes the Jamie Locktas hot dog test. Is there

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Speaker 5: a hot time?

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Speaker 2: Is there a hot dog represented on screen? And close enough,

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Speaker 2: I would say for this movie. So yeah, they wear

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Speaker 2: flashy clothes, they've got the hairdos, they've got the nails,

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Speaker 2: all that. On the radio, Nissi hears an announcement that

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Speaker 2: auditions are being held in La to cast a dancer

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Speaker 2: for Heavy D's dance Girl of the World, and whoever

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Speaker 2: is cast in this will get ten thousand dollars. And

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Speaker 2: Nisi wants to go to this audition because she hopes

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Speaker 2: to get cast and use that money to open a

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Speaker 2: hair salon slash restaurant that presumably she would do the

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Speaker 2: hair for and that McKey would be the chef at.

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Speaker 2: I think of the idea.

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Speaker 3: Do you all think it's a good idea? Like I've

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Speaker 3: been wrestling back and forth with whether or not this

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Speaker 3: is a great idea or a terrible idea.

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Speaker 4: I think it feels like it's at high risk for

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Speaker 4: like a fire.

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Speaker 5: Lots of hair and also ki yeah, right, like if

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Speaker 5: someone with like a lot of hairspray and a lot

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Speaker 5: of like grease grill, like I guess it depends on

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Speaker 5: what kind of food they're serving.

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Speaker 4: Seems like a high accident.

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Speaker 2: Well, also just seems like unsanitary and unhygienic with like

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Speaker 2: people's dander flying through the air and their hair all

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Speaker 2: over the floor and stuff.

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Speaker 5: That's true, I mean spoiler alert, they end up doing it. Yes,

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Speaker 5: So I wish we could fast forward a year. It'd

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Speaker 5: be like, so what does Osha think?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, where's baps too? Which is all about the

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Speaker 2: salon slash restaurant.

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Speaker 5: I also it was a twist of the movie for

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Speaker 5: me to find out that the old man came up

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Speaker 5: with the term baps. Yes, yeah, I was like, what

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Speaker 5: he was just like coining on his deathbed.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, he uses his will to coin the phrase.

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Speaker 5: I just didn't see.

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Speaker 2: It coming, right, because they're like, what's baps? And then

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Speaker 2: he's like black American princesses.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, wait, it was his idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't see that coming.

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Speaker 5: And this is like true of so many rom coms.

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Speaker 5: But I just thought there was a very fun, kind

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Speaker 5: of bizarre liberal use of like a vague movie score

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Speaker 5: where sometimes like something's happening that is like plot impactful,

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Speaker 5: but not like the most serious thing in the world.

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Speaker 5: And it's like dude, dude, dude, including the entire end

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Speaker 5: of the movie, the whole last minute there's no It

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Speaker 5: was like they're just playing the score and I'm like,

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Speaker 5: I would just like to know what they're saying, because

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Speaker 5: they're saying things, m M, maybe the sound something happened.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: And they're like, if we just put music over this

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Speaker 2: and show people's reactions, it'll be clear. Show don't tell

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Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, do you remember wire screenwriting? Okay, So

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Speaker 2: we also meet Nissi and Mickey's two boyfriends, Allie played

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Speaker 2: by Pierre Edwards that's Niecy's boyfriend, and James played by

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Speaker 2: Anthony Johnson that's Mickey's boyfriend. They're trying to start up

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Speaker 2: like a car service company, but right now they're unemployed.

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Speaker 2: They have questionable haircuts. They're kind of losers.

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Speaker 5: More importantly, they're not very nice to their girlfriends. Right

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Speaker 5: if be a loser all you want if you're a

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Speaker 5: good partner.

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Speaker 3: They are my least favorite part of this movie. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure I'll get to it, but they are my least

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Speaker 3: favorite part of this movie.

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Speaker 2: Write them out, yeah, truly.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I appreciate that Troy Byer's been outspoken about

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Speaker 5: how she feels about the final product, but I wish

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Speaker 5: she was a little more specific. I'm like, did she

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Speaker 5: want the movie to end like that? Because it feels

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Speaker 5: like the boyfriends did not deserve that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, So then Nissi sees another ad for the

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Speaker 2: Dance Girl of the World contest and takes it as

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Speaker 2: a sign that she and Mickey should definitely go to

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Speaker 2: the audition in LA. Before they leave, though, they go

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Speaker 2: out to a club because it's ladies night and they

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Speaker 2: get in free, and a bunch of guys want to

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Speaker 2: talk to them, but none of them want to or

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Speaker 2: can spend the money to buy them drinks, including their boyfriends.

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Speaker 2: So Nissi is all the more eager to get away

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Speaker 2: and travel to LA and hopefully meet like a rich

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Speaker 2: guy in LA. On the flight, they're trying to learn

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Speaker 2: etiquette from a book. Their hair is too big and

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Speaker 2: it's blocking everyone's view of the in flight movie, very

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Speaker 2: funny stuff.

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Speaker 5: There so many like vignettes. There's so many comedy montages.

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Speaker 5: It's like, it's nineteen ninety seven, baby, we're doing comedy montages.

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Speaker 3: True fun fact. That flight attendant who was like, can

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Speaker 3: you lower your hair? It's a severa Wilson from that TV.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of good cameos in this movie, including

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Speaker 2: one we're about to see, which is LL cool J.

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Speaker 2: Because they arrive in La they're at the airport, they

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Speaker 2: accost LL cool.

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Speaker 4: J nineteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 2: They do this every time they see a famous person,

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Speaker 2: because there's a bunch of cameos sprinkled throughout the movie,

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Speaker 2: and they're always accosting whoever it is and being like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm your biggest fan, marry me, sing

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Speaker 2: for me, blah blah blah. They're always making a scene and.

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Speaker 5: Singing for me is like there's a Phantom of the Opera.

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Speaker 3: I can really relate to that scene with LL COOLJ.

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Speaker 5: Y'all.

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Speaker 3: I used to I might embarrass to say. I used

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Speaker 3: to write him letters, like I had his like pictures

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Speaker 3: on my wall, and I was so obsessed with him.

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Speaker 3: People forget like in nineteen ninety seven, he was a

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Speaker 3: real sex symbol and he made like music that was

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Speaker 3: like very sensual.

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Speaker 4: What was in the letters?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I would be like, I thought there was a

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Speaker 3: world where we might get together, So mind you, I

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Speaker 3: was like a child. So it's a lot of like

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Speaker 3: when we meet, like blah blah blah. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 3: obsessed with him.

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Speaker 5: Was it the sort of thing where like ll COOLJ

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00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 5: Industries would like send you something back, like fan mail stuff.

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Speaker 3: God, I wish they probably were like, let's never indulge

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Speaker 3: this child's fantasy about we're.

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Speaker 5: Putting Bridget's name on a list.

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Speaker 3: If any even knows him, I would still accept a

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Speaker 3: form letter back to this day, I would still happily

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Speaker 3: take that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, in any case. They arrive in La they head

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Speaker 2: to the audition. There's a very long line and Nissi

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Speaker 2: kind of has like a dance off with another woman

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Speaker 2: waiting in the line, which a man nearby notices.

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Speaker 5: I love the dance scene.

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Speaker 4: It's so weird, it's.

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Speaker 5: Just truly Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Then we don't see the audition, but we see her

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Speaker 2: coming out of it, and she hasn't done well. The

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Speaker 2: judges were like pass and she's feeling defeated and ready

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Speaker 2: to head back to Georgia. But then that man noticed

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Speaker 2: her earlier. His name is Antonio. He approaches Nissi and

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Speaker 2: Mickey and tells them that his boss is looking for

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Speaker 2: a dancer for a music video. It pays ten thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars and provides room and board in a mansion in

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Speaker 2: Beverly Hills.

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Speaker 4: And you're like, you're being abducted.

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Speaker 5: You're being abducted, Like this is what a scary proposal?

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00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're like, sounds great. So Antonio takes them

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Speaker 2: to the mansion where they meet this rich guy named

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Speaker 2: Isaac blakemore also his snooty butler named Manly. Nissy and

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Speaker 2: Mickey get settled in at the mansion. There's a bedet

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Speaker 2: scene where they don't know how a bidet works.

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Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety seven comedy Montage.

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Speaker 3: Yes, my first time ever seeing a bidet was this scene,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't know what a bidet was, and so

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Speaker 3: the scene I was still sort of like, so what

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Speaker 3: is the little toilet? Like? I still didn't understand like

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Speaker 3: the humor of the scene because I didn't know what

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Speaker 3: a bidet was.

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Speaker 4: I still to this day.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I guess I've I've seen them now, but

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Speaker 5: I've never I've never engaged.

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Speaker 2: I've never used one. I don't trust them.

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Speaker 5: I believe that, you know, now there's consumer bidets. You

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00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 5: don't need to be in the one percent to have

381
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Speaker 5: a bidet. I know people are evangelical about them.

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Speaker 2: I just don't know how you dry your ass, after all.

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Speaker 3: That's my question. Too, because from what I've read, it's

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Speaker 3: like more environmentally friendly and more hygienic because they're not

385
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,679
Speaker 3: like using paper on your butt, but your butt gets wet,

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Speaker 3: so wouldn't you have to use what are you using

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Speaker 3: to dry your butt?

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Speaker 2: I know someone who had like one of those consumer

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Speaker 2: bidets that you just like install in your toilet and

390
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Speaker 2: then yeah, they had a designated butt towel. But then

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Speaker 2: it's like, so now your butt towels just hanging in

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Speaker 2: your bathroom with all your buttrooms all over it, and

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Speaker 2: I don't care how effective the bidet is. It's not

394
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Speaker 2: killing the bacteria from your ass.

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Speaker 3: It's just water.

396
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Speaker 5: And what if I'm your friend and I come over

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Speaker 5: and you're.

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Speaker 2: Accidentally touched the like what if you think it's a

399
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Speaker 2: hand towel and draw your hands with it.

400
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Speaker 5: It's like pa mints, you know how like yeah in

401
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 5: the urinals, you mean know, like how anytime there's like those,

402
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 5: like they're delicious. Unfortunately, the mints, like outside of bathrooms,

403
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 5: are like at restaurants and they there was like a

404
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 5: test for how much urine because Americans are gross and

405
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Speaker 5: don't wash their hands, and it was like these are

406
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 5: one They're just calcified p and you're like, oh no,

407
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Speaker 5: so you can never have them out of restaurant. If

408
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 5: they're just out raw, not wrapped, you can't have them.

409
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 5: There's pea in them.

410
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, people are out here putting their unwashed, urine soaped hands,

411
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Speaker 3: raw dog into a bowl of communal mints. People.

412
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Speaker 5: There's science to back up peepee hands and poop poo towels.

413
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Speaker 5: It's a six sad world we live in.

414
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Speaker 2: And food in your salons and hair and your restaurants

415
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 2: just a mess. Don't do it, okay. So then after

416
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Speaker 2: the bedet scene, they sit down with Isaac, who reveals

417
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Speaker 2: that he isn't actually making a music video. What he

418
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 2: is looking for is a woman to play a particular part,

419
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Speaker 2: which is that Isaac's rich, elderly uncle who is dying

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Speaker 2: of cancer. His story is that he was madly in

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Speaker 2: love with this woman named Lily, but he never got

422
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Speaker 2: to be with her or marry her because he's white

423
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Speaker 2: and she was black, and his family forbid their relationship.

424
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Speaker 2: But now that this uncle is on his deathbed, Isaac

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Speaker 2: wants to find a woman to pretend to be Lily's granddaughter,

426
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Speaker 2: and so that's who he wants Nissi to play, and

427
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Speaker 2: Nissi and Mickey are very touched by this story, so

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Speaker 2: Nissi agrees to do it.

429
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Speaker 5: You could already tell, well, I mean just from like

430
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Speaker 5: the I don't know the actor who plays Isaac, but

431
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 5: you can just tell that, like he's up to no

432
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 5: good based on how he's like looking at people. But

433
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Speaker 5: already from the beginning, the plan is too weird to

434
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Speaker 5: not be secretly evil.

435
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, if they were remaking this movie, he would

436
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: be cast, well, pre allegations he would be cast by

437
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 3: Armie Hammer, like a person in a movie that you're like,

438
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 3: don't trust him. He's bad. It's not been revealed yet.

439
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: You can just tell by his face.

440
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 5: Yes, I feel like Adam Brodie's playing a lot of

441
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 5: those parts these days. Yeah, but maybe it's just because

442
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 5: we're about to cover ready or not where it's like

443
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 5: he's a nice guy. Unless he also did that in

444
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 5: Promising Young Woman.

445
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did it in American fiction, right, Yeah, he

446
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: plays like an agent or something, yes.

447
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 5: Right, Like he plays just kind of like slimeballs.

448
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: Similar character in uh Jennifer's Body too.

449
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my.

450
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 4: God, wow, Yeah, this is like a.

451
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: A thing with him.

452
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens a lot in horror movies where if

453
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: you need like a slimy white guy in a thriller

454
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 2: or a horror movie, and you will and you will

455
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: need that, you cast either Adam Brody or Justin Long.

456
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 5: Wow, that's true. I wonder how often they're like, Duke,

457
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 5: you get out to play devious short kings. We don't know,

458
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 5: we don't anyways.

459
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, So the friends meet the dying uncle, Don Blake

460
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: Moore played by Martin Landau. Fun very fun at first.

461
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: He's like shocked and angry that they're there, but then

462
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 2: he quickly warms up to Nissi and Mickey. They have

463
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: dinner together, but Mickey's like, what the fuck is this

464
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: boring chicken? So she goes to the kitchen and whips

465
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: up some soul food and Don loves it. She keeps

466
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 2: making it for him for the next few days, and

467
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: it seems like his health is improving, although Manly the

468
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 2: butler disapproves. He still doesn't like the ladies.

469
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: This is such a great seat. I love a montage

470
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 3: of like a black woman is coming in and taking

471
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 3: charge and shaking things up like This movie does not

472
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 3: spare on the montages, right no, Oh my gosh.

473
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 5: It was kind of like, I mean, from a note

474
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 5: taking perspective, it was very helpful because sometimes you're like, oh,

475
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 5: nothing's gonna happen for a minute. Cool, I can catch

476
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 5: up on my not It's great, great on my first

477
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 5: blotch uh huh.

478
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: So, yeah, Don is feeling better and he even feels

479
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 2: up to taking Nissie and Mickey on a shopping spree.

480
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: So then we get a clothes trying on montage, but

481
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: nephew Isaac is lurking nearby taking pictures and it's clear

482
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: that he's up to something. And then he's talking on

483
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: the phone with someone.

484
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 4: He's doing like a vaguely evil phone call.

485
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

486
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: And then the actor, again, I don't know anything about

487
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 5: this actor, but he's kind of cracking me up with

488
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 5: the over the top evilness. Where his scene like talking

489
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 5: to someone on the phone being like, don't we'll be

490
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 5: very rich souon click, and then it like just pans

491
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 5: down to him and then he goes, good, all right,

492
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 5: you're bad amazing acting.

493
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like he intends to like set someone

494
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: up or blackmail someone. We're not really sure what the

495
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: plan is. Meanwhile, Mickey and that guy Antonio who works

496
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: at the estate. They're having a secret affair, and Antonio

497
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: claims to be from a wealthy family in Italy and

498
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: he wants to spend all of his money on Mickey,

499
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: but he doesn't seem trustworthy either. He's also up to something.

500
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: Then Don takes Nissi and Mickey out to a fancy

501
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: dinner and they're trying to act sophisticated and classy, but

502
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: they keep seeing celebrities and they're making a scene. Then

503
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: Don wants to know more about his beloved Lily, so

504
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: Nissi like crams her mouth full of food to avoid

505
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: talking about her. She kind of like makes some stuff up.

506
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: You can't even understand her. It's very funny. Then back

507
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: at the estate, Mickey and Antonio are canoodling again, and

508
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: Antonio is like, I have a ring for you, but

509
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: it's in this safe, but I can't get it open,

510
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: and she tries to open the safe, and it's clear

511
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: that he's just trying to like get her to put

512
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: her fingerprints on the safe to incriminate her.

513
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 4: Later, no, I was like, Micky, he's wearing a leather glove.

514
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they're canodling. They're like laying in bed and

515
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 3: she's like in a nighty and she's like, why are

516
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: you wearing these leather gloves? And yeah, I feel like

517
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 3: Mickey would be smarter than that, you would think.

518
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 5: There's a number of times where I's like, these women

519
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 5: are smart.

520
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, why don't they notice that they're being deceived?

521
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 5: Women be being deceived in movies.

522
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: I mean not to victim blame these women.

523
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 5: Although you know there's some equal opportunity deception in this movie.

524
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 5: The women are are also deceiving Martin Landau.

525
00:26:59,320 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: That's true.

526
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 4: It makes you think I'm not mad about it.

527
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 5: And also Martin Landau's not mad about it, weirdly, and no,

528
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 5: he's like very down to be deceased. He's like, I've

529
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 5: got forty five minutes to Liz, you know whatever.

530
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: He loves it.

531
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 5: He seems to.

532
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: It's his kink anyway. So later that night, a burglar

533
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: comes in and knocks out Manly the butler, and it

534
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 2: wakes up Nissy and Mickey, so they come down and

535
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: kick the burglar's ass, and he turns out to be Antonio,

536
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: and he's in cahoots with nephew Isaac, who is trying

537
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: to defraud his uncle and take his money by claiming

538
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: that he is mentally unfit because he had brought in

539
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: two women from the quote unquote ghetto who were robbing

540
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: him every night. This is all explained by Don's lawyer,

541
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: Tracy Shaw played by Troy Bayer aka the screenwriter of

542
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: the movie, and once this is all figured out, Don

543
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: offers Nissi and Mickey each fifty thousand dollars for their trouble,

544
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: but they refuse, saying that they're there because they want

545
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 2: to be there, which makes Don trust them even more.

546
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: He takes them out dancing, but the guilt of lying

547
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: to Don about being the granddaughter of his beloved Lily

548
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: is really weighing on Nissi, so she writes a letter

549
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: to Don and plans to give it to him and

550
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: then like leave the estate shortly thereafter. But before they

551
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: can do that, the butler manly, who has warmed up

552
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: to Nissi and Mickey.

553
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: Also.

554
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 5: I thought that was a fun subversion, the butler being nice.

555
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 5: You always expect him to be dastardly.

556
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he is at first, but then he's like, wow,

557
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: we like the Sam soap opera. Let's be best friends.

558
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: It didn't take much kind of love that he has

559
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: arranged for Nissi and Mickey's boyfriends Ali and James to

560
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: come to the estate, and these guys are trying to

561
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: get their act together so that they can like deserve

562
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: these women. But meanwhile, Don suddenly collapses and he's rushed

563
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: to the hospital.

564
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 5: He dances himself to death. The issue of his health

565
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 5: is a little all over the place of the movie,

566
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 5: because we're introduced to him as if he does not

567
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 5: have a lot of time to live, but then he's

568
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 5: very sprightly for a while. He's briefly brought back to

569
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 5: full health by Mickey's cooking ostensibly yeah, and then has

570
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 5: a very steep decline.

571
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 4: It's very like movie health.

572
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: Right exactly.

573
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

574
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: So then Nisi goes to the hospital and she's trying

575
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: to tell Don that she's not really Lily's granddaughter, but

576
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: he dies before she can get the words out, and

577
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: then the attorney, Tracy informs them that Don already knew

578
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: that she wasn't Lily's granddaughter because he was aware that

579
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: Lily never had any children. He just cared about Nissi

580
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: and McKee out of the kindness of his heart. He

581
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: just enjoyed the company. Then Tracy is like, by the way,

582
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: here's Don's last will and testament in which he leaves

583
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: everything to his baps okaya.

584
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 5: A thing he made up. It's three minutes before passing away,

585
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 5: which I just feel like we cannot overlook. Yeah, I

586
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 5: think that there's an argument that, like there's sort of

587
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 5: a finndom element to mister Blakemore because.

588
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 4: And I love it. I've never seen anything like it

589
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: in the movie where he's.

590
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 5: Just like knowingly being deceived, but he's like, let's party,

591
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 5: let's let's have fun. In the end, he tries to

592
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 5: give them one hundred thousand dollars collectively at one point,

593
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 5: like hmmm, he's just kind of down to clown that

594
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 5: mister Blakemore.

595
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 3: I kind of get it, Like he's got money. His

596
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: nephew is like trying to take advantage of him. I

597
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: think he's got money and he knows he's about to die,

598
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: so it's like I may as well having a good time,

599
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: like eating soul food and dancing at the club with

600
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: these women.

601
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: That's how I did go out.

602
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I respect it. I mean, and it's like, I'm

603
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 5: sure if we knew more about him, because he runs

604
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 5: a fabric business, a textile business. I'm like, for sure,

605
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 5: you know, if he's that rich, he's exploiting someone. Yeah,

606
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 5: but this is a Cinderella story and he is the

607
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 5: benevolent rich guy who's kind of getting Finn dambed. I

608
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 5: don't hate it.

609
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: Right, Speaking of Cinderella, Natalie decel Red is in Brandy

610
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: Cinderella also from this year, from nineteen ninety seven or

611
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: was that a different year?

612
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 5: I believe so, Yeah, yeah, this is nineteen ninety seven.

613
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: She plays one of the stepsisters, Minerva.

614
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: Right, She's so great, Like, I feel like she never

615
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 3: got her due. But I feel like if you were

616
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: watching black sitcoms in the nineties, you've seen her in everything.

617
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: She was such a gem and I just, yeah, it

618
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: makes me sad that she's no longer with us because

619
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 3: her current would probably be really popping today.

620
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember her from Eve he would ever watch, Yes, yes,

621
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 5: even Cinderella also before we cut the brake. Yeah, because

622
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 5: Natalie des cel Reads no longer with us, halle Berry.

623
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 5: I didn't see this at the time she passed away,

624
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 5: but halle Berry posted like a really sweet tribute to

625
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 5: her when she passed.

626
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: And I want to share it.

627
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 5: Really quick.

628
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, she said.

629
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: Quote.

630
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 5: Natalie represented actual black women, not what black women are

631
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 5: perceived to be. For that, she was often underrated, passed over,

632
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 5: deprived of the platform she truly deserved. But her light

633
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 5: continues to shine through the people who grew up watching her,

634
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 5: the people who knew her best, and those of us

635
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 5: who loved her. I'll love you forever, my sweet friends.

636
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 5: So nice, beautiful, and you can just feel in this movie,

637
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 5: even when the movie is weird and kind of off

638
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 5: the rails, that like they're having fun. They're definitely having

639
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 5: a hell of a time.

640
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, anyways, Natalie des Sell, we love her. So

641
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: the movie ends with Niscy and Mickey inheriting Don's fortune.

642
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: Nephew Isaac is there being like what.

643
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 3: The heck no?

644
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: And then this new fortune they have enabled Nissi and

645
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: Mickey to open up their salon slash restaurant in Beverly

646
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: Hills called Lily's with a Z. Also, Ali and James

647
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: have opened up their car service. Also, Dennis Rodman is.

648
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 4: There as a cameo nineteen ninety seven.

649
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: They all live happily ever after that's the movie. Let's

650
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss

651
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: and we're back.

652
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: We're back.

653
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 5: Maybe where shall we start? I mean, Bridget, if you

654
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 5: have a strong instinct, I feel like we've already also

655
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 5: sort of started to talk about how this movie was received.

656
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: I think that's a good place to start. So I

657
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 3: felt this way when I watched it, and it was

658
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 3: even more clear to me be watching it today, which

659
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: is that this movie at times, I can understand how

660
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 3: people think, like, oh, it's making fun of these working

661
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 3: class black women. However, to me, this is a movie

662
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 3: about black women who have goals and dreams and who

663
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 3: like can really visualize and do the work to get

664
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: them to those dreams. And the thing that gets them

665
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 3: to their goals and their dreams is like their creativity,

666
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: their ingenuity, right. Like there's a scene when they first

667
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: get into the car, the limo when they're going to

668
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 3: the mansion and they take off their wigs and they're

669
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 3: gonna do a whole different hairdew and it's like that's creativity, right, Like.

670
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 3: I don't think the movie is trying to make fun

671
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 3: of that. I think the movie is trying to be

672
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 3: like the reason why these women are the kind of

673
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: women who would take a flight to La to try

674
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 3: to get on Heavy D's music video and say yes

675
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 3: to these authors that seem kind of outlandish. Is because

676
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: they are creative. Is because they like possess these qualities

677
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: that are the reason why they address the way they

678
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: do and also are the reason when they go for

679
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: their goals. I see this as a movie about dreamers

680
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 3: and the creativity and foresight that it takes to really

681
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: architect a life for yourself based on that dream.

682
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, yeah. There is so much that was like

683
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 5: lost in the way that the movie was received because

684
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 5: they're super motivated. There's a piece I found that was

685
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 5: in Refinery twenty nine back in twenty eighteen, Remember then

686
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 5: No by An Cohen that sort of examines the critical

687
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 5: response versus how she felt, which is very similar to

688
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 5: how you feel, Bridget.

689
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: And also, I mean it's it reads.

690
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 5: Very clearly, and it feels really condescending the way that

691
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 5: this criticism comes off, because, in like the Ebert reviews,

692
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 5: the motivation and how active they are in the story

693
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 5: is not mentioned. The fact that they are motivated and

694
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 5: have dreams aren't mentioned. I think that the way it's

695
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 5: dealt in the movie can be a little like Uneven

696
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 5: and the way that the movie prescribes their ending is weird.

697
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 5: Although I am glad they got their salon restaurant. That

698
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 5: probably wasn't a good business idea, but that whole sort

699
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 5: of saga is fascinating. And what a Cohen sort of

700
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 5: digs into here is this movie is clearly a part

701
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 5: of the very nineties rags to riches women's story, but

702
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 5: it's one of the few rags to riches story about

703
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 5: black women, and it's received as I mean, and I

704
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 5: bravely still have not seen Pretty Women in my life,

705
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 5: so I have to take everyone else's word for how

706
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 5: much this movie, especially in the montage, just kind of

707
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 5: reflects things that happen in Pretty Women. What Ann Cohen

708
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 5: is arguing is that the reception of this movie is

709
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 5: when Halle Berry and Natalie des Seller doing it, it's

710
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 5: portrayed as trashy. When Julia Roberts is doing the same

711
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 5: thing on Rodeo Drive, it's presented as unbelievably charming, and

712
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 5: how that is mask off racist in the same era

713
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 5: of sleepover movies, and like.

714
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: In Pretty Woman, I hadn't clocked that comparison, but I

715
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 3: think it's a good one. It's funny I was just

716
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: listening to Tina Fey on Las Culturista's and she was like,

717
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: when I was watching Pretty Woman, me and my cousin

718
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 3: would be like, are we the only people who have

719
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 3: realized that, like, as a sex worker, it's probably going

720
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: great this time because it's Richard Gear, but there's probably

721
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: other stories that you're not hearing from her work that

722
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 3: are like maybe not so great and not so rack.

723
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that Pretty Woman example is an

724
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: interesting one because it's like who's come up story do

725
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: we celebrate? And who's come up story is like just

726
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: like fodder for laughs, I guess, And yeah, I just

727
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: I almost think that what some of these reviewers who

728
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: didn't like the movie, not all of them, but what

729
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: some of them are actually saying is like, if you

730
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 3: are a working class woman who dresses flashy and has

731
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: really long nails and your indicator Georgia, it is absurd

732
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 3: that you would think you could go to LA and

733
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 3: like dance at a heavy D video or like make

734
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 3: it or have some sort of dream. It almost seems

735
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 3: like what they're actually saying in their mask off moments

736
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: in these reviews is like that premise is what is unbelievable,

737
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: not that the movie is like making fun of them

738
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: or whatever. It almost kind of reveals the way that

739
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 3: they're kind of like putting a negativity on that. Does

740
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: that make sense?

741
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, it's so weird reading them where

742
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 5: it's clear that like Roger Ebert feels that he is

743
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 5: doing a righteous thing while still clearly putting in a

744
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 5: lot of his own biases. And it's also like, it's

745
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 5: also fine to not love a sleepover a movie. I

746
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 5: think that there's also a gendered aspect to this, but

747
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 5: it's far more likely for again the Pretty Woman in comparison,

748
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 5: because I was just looking at the original marketing for

749
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 5: this movie, and it's very clear in how they're marketing

750
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 5: baps who they want to go see it, because the

751
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 5: tagline is these pretty women are Clueless, and you're like, okay,

752
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,479
Speaker 5: well even say in the tage, yeah, they drop two

753
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 5: similar movies in the tag line.

754
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: You're like, okay, so this is like all the same thing,

755
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 4: but movies like.

756
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 5: Pretty Women and Clueless are far more likely to be

757
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 5: you know, escalated to like, well, this is actually like

758
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 5: a pretty.

759
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 4: Good movie quote unquote, and yeah.

760
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 5: That's just racist and unfair and I don't even think

761
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 5: this is like an amazing movie, but it's not what

762
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 5: it's like. Holding it to that standard is silly.

763
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I completely agree, And the fact of the

764
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 3: matter is that, like it has endured culturally, and so again,

765
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: I love this movie. I'm not gonna pretend like it's

766
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: the most groundbreaking, the best movie ever. I had my

767
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: issues with it, but the fact that it has maintained

768
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: this cultural legacy shows that there was something going on.

769
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: Like I even read that they were thinking about turning

770
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 3: it into a stage adaptation, which if they did that,

771
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 3: it would be a hit, no doubt. In my mind,

772
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 3: it would kill.

773
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 5: It's a Cinderella story. It literally is a Cinderella story.

774
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 5: There's so many really good, like be fun nineties rags

775
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 5: to riches stories, and this should be more discussed. I

776
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 5: hope that this movie experiences resurgence, and that would be

777
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 5: the perfect way to do it. Is like this movie

778
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 5: is screaming to be adapted into a musical.

779
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I do think like there are topics that

780
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: are dealt with in the movie with humor that are

781
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: like very real pieces of cultural discourse in the black community,

782
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 3: like the montage when Mickey is making the food and

783
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, the nutrition is said that this food

784
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 3: clogs the arteries and she's like, no, not the way

785
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 3: that I make it. And I know it's played for

786
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: a laugh, but like there are today like conversations about

787
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 3: soul food and whether or not it's healthy and this

788
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: idea that like, oh, well, collar greens are very similar

789
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: to kale, but one of those foods enjoy is like

790
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: a connotation of being health food and one doesn't, even

791
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: though they're like practically the same thing. That is a

792
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: very real cultural conversation that has endured today, and the

793
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: movie like plays with that and has a discourse about

794
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 3: that in a humorous way. Albeit but like I think

795
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 3: there are more serious things going on in this film

796
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 3: than some of these critics may be clocked.

797
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 4: Which is like part of what makes Robert Townsend such

798
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 4: an amazing filmmaker. Because we covered Hollywood Shuffle of Gosh

799
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 4: a couple.

800
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 5: Of years ago. Now yeah, oh nice, But that's like

801
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 5: what he's great at is like finding a way to

802
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 5: talk about hyper specific like have these conversations in a

803
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 5: comedy montage versus like a very didactic, serious thing. Like

804
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 5: it just feels very Robert townsendy, but I wanted to

805
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 5: just share Troy Bayer's feelings on the adaptation, partially just

806
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 5: because I love drama and because you're messy, because I

807
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 5: do love reading about drama, and I think it is

808
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 5: really interesting where like this is the sort of quote

809
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 5: that you always want the confirmation of, but you very

810
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 5: rarely actually get. And it just feels like a kind

811
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 5: of a good lesson for writers in general, because it

812
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 5: seems like what the issue ultimately was with Troy Byer

813
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 5: and Robert Townsend is that Robert Townsend is generally a

814
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 5: writer director and seemed to be on set very comfortable

815
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 5: adjusting stuff as he went because he was adjusting his

816
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 5: own writing. But in this case, this is the first

817
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 5: movie he directed that was not written by him, and

818
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 5: it seems like he used that same approach of like, well,

819
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 5: I don't quite like how that works, We're going to

820
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 5: adjust it. That ended up, in Troy Bayer's opinion, kind

821
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 5: of meaningfully affecting what she had written, which is an interesting,

822
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 5: hyper specific kind of problem that I don't think indicates

823
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 5: any ill will on Robert Townsend's part, but it's just interesting.

824
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 5: So Troy Byer gave an interview the year after this

825
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 5: came out, as she was promoting a movie that she

826
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 5: had written and directed after being unhappy with how BAPS

827
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 5: had gone, called Let's Talk About Sex. So here's her quote.

828
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 5: When I saw the final cut, I was so devastated

829
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 5: because I really believed that my words had not honestly

830
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 5: made it onto the screen. The director was a writer

831
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 5: director himself, and it was the first time he directed

832
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 5: someone else is writing. He took the liberty of changing

833
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 5: stuff as he shot the film. At the end of

834
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 5: the day, when I saw the film, I hated it.

835
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 5: It was really embarrassed, and it was too late for

836
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 5: me to take my name off the picture. Then I

837
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 5: got killed by critics.

838
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 4: Me the writer.

839
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 5: I thought, I'm just going to take the money from

840
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 5: this awful experience and put it into my own film.

841
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 5: I'm going to direct it and make sure my words

842
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 5: make it to the screen. If the critics try to

843
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 5: kill me, now, there's nothing they can say that's going

844
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: to hurt me, because I know I did my very best.

845
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 5: Those are my words on screen, and I stand by them.

846
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 5: I took the money from BAPS to make my movie Wow,

847
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 5: which is also I mean, I don't know I'm on.

848
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 5: I think team everybody here. This is also like Troy

849
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 5: Byer's first screenwriting credit. She started as an actor. She

850
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 5: has since gotten a master's degree in eco liberation and

851
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 5: community psychology and a doctorate in clinical psychology.

852
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 4: Wow, she's written like, she's.

853
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 5: Truly very very interesting. She's written self help books. She

854
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 5: was married to the guy that produced all of the

855
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 5: Saw movies for fifteen years. You're just like iconic. I know, know,

856
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 5: I was pretty thrilled to find out that there is

857
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 5: a direct BAPS to Saw connection, But I don't know.

858
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think that that takes away from

859
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 5: the movie, because it did just seem like a creative

860
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 5: chafing and kind of like a lesson that a lot

861
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 5: of writers learn and why a lot of writers become

862
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 5: directors is because that shit will happen.

863
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 4: But I just wanted to share that. And also, she's

864
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 4: in the movie, which is wild.

865
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: She's in the movie, so I wonder if she like

866
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: observed scenes where she's like, this isn't how I wrote this.

867
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: Oh God, what are you doing?

868
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: Robert?

869
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 5: Like my skin crawl? I'd be so stressed. There's like

870
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,439
Speaker 5: things that I'm credited as having written and I've seen

871
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 5: the episode and been like, huh, well, I guess I

872
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 5: wrote that.

873
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 3: Does it happen a lot in the biz.

874
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's definitely been my And I don't mean like

875
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 5: there's nothing, but like there's you know, especially in like

876
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 5: sitcom writing, where there's like jokes that were there that

877
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 5: you're like, I didn't write that or I don't know.

878
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 5: So anytime someone's like, well the writing of this, the

879
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 5: writer should have been thinking, I'm like just putting it

880
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 5: out there, very likely they did not write that. And

881
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 5: there's also jokes I've really enjoyed that I've been credited

882
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 5: with that absolutely were not me.

883
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: So it goes both ways. Yeah, it just goes.

884
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 4: You do end up getting credit that you don't deserve

885
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 4: as well.

886
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: So let's take another quick break and we'll come back

887
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: for more discussion, and we're back. Something I really appreciate

888
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 2: about this movie is that it centers to black female friends.

889
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: There's so few movies about I mean female friendship in

890
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 2: general and then specifically black female friendship. And it feels

891
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 2: like a really real, authentic friendship because you see them

892
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 2: supporting each other, they're lifting each other up. But it's

893
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: not as though they're like always agreeing on everything. Like

894
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: we see them disagree about how to handle things, we

895
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: see them trying to hold each other accountable for something,

896
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: usually how they're conducting themselves around a celebrity. Yes, it's

897
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: like them, you know, they're challenging each other, they're disagreeing,

898
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: but they're also ultimately just like very loving and supportive

899
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 2: of each other. And they're so funny together. Like, I

900
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: love to see women be funny in movies because it

901
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 2: seldom is allowed to happen because until like pretty recently,

902
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 2: it felt like women were not ever written to be

903
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 2: the funny characters in comedy movies. They were like the Killjoys,

904
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: the shrews, because they were often movies written by men

905
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 2: who were bringing in all of their biases. It's usually

906
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: the men who get to be the funny ones in

907
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: comedy movies. But like Halle Berry and Natalie desseil Read

908
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: are clowning in almost every scene, like the physical humor,

909
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: the jokes, Like everything is just so funny.

910
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 5: It's so goofy. I love it. And the fact I

911
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 5: feel like a lot of that is likely attributable to

912
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 5: the fact that a black woman wrote this.

913
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.

914
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, and their friendship is so supportive.

915
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 5: I like that. I feel like it's very often in

916
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 5: a friendship movie where you get like one front turns

917
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 5: on the other and it's like, I'm gonna have this

918
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 5: come up by myself and fuck you. It's like Raven

919
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 5: during the Cheetah Girls. Yeah, she's like, I'm the star.

920
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 5: But even when the other one is not making great choices,

921
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 5: they are always supportive of each other. There's never a

922
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 5: question that, like one person's success is not going to

923
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 5: be the other person's success. And I think that that's

924
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 5: really beautiful thing that, Yeah, you just like rarely get

925
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 5: in a movie about women, because we're so conditioned to

926
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 5: think that women will turn on each other.

927
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll be petty, they'll backstab each other, Yeah, all

928
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, because those are the stories that

929
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: are written by men and that's what we're used to seeing.

930
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's never any moment like that. They're just

931
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: there for each other every step of the way. I

932
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: also want to note that there is more body diversity

933
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: in this movie than you normally see. Because Mickey is fat,

934
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: there's no attention drawn to that. It's just completely normalized

935
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 2: a very normal part of her character. I wonder if

936
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: there is an argument to be made that, like she's

937
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: the one who is like the cook, she cooks soul food,

938
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 2: and you know, the thin one does hair and is

939
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 2: like more focused on like a kind of beauty oriented thing,

940
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: and if there's some kind of like veiled thing there.

941
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 2: But I think you'd almost kind of have to read

942
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: into that to like reach that conclusion, because at least

943
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: on like the surface or the way it's presented, it

944
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 2: just like all feels very normalized, at least to me.

945
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree, and I would also even go

946
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 3: further and say that like in the nineties and today,

947
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 3: it's so easy to be like, oh, well, halle Berry

948
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 3: is the thin one, and so she has the fleshed

949
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: out in her world. She has the romantic partner. But

950
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 3: they're both kind of given like they both have partners.

951
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 3: I don't like either of their partners, but they both

952
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: have like a romantic arc. And I did notice there

953
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 3: were a couple of places where it would be very

954
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 3: easy to have Mickey be the one who was doing

955
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 3: physical things, like the scene with the bidet it splashes

956
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 3: up in halle Berry's face, and I think in a

957
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 3: lot of movies it was like, oh haha, have the

958
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 3: funny fat friend do something really physical, And this movie

959
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 3: takes I think takes intention to lean away from that

960
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 3: a little bit at times.

961
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 2: For sure, it's like equal opportunity slapstick, physical right comedy. Also,

962
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 2: I think in a lot of movies it would have

963
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: been the case where the you know, thin, traditionally beautiful

964
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: by Western beauty standards character would be the protagonist and

965
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: then her friend would be like the quote unquote sidekick

966
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 2: who doesn't have any kind of subplot of her own

967
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 2: or any scenes where it's just focusing on her. But

968
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: she also has that like separate love story kind of

969
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: thing with Antonio, who of course ends up being like

970
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 2: awful and desaitful. But we see a number of scenes

971
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: where the focus of the scene is on Mickey and

972
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: Nissi is nowhere to be seen.

973
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 5: Right, and there's like never any I don't know, I

974
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 5: feel like often when a fat character, especially during this era,

975
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 5: is given a love interest, it's like in this condescending way,

976
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 5: but like you also just have Natalie to sell and

977
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 5: she fucking rocks and.

978
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: His course, yeah she's the cutest.

979
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 5: But it does feel like rare. And again, the movie

980
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 5: is written by a woman like there's nothing for me

981
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 5: at least that zim Mickey's story that feels like a

982
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 5: reflection of her body. I do feel like, even though

983
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 5: we have dual protagonists here, that Nissie is ultimately more

984
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 5: so the protagonist than Mickey. Yeah, because we get like,

985
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 5: I don't know, it felt a little uneven to me,

986
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 5: which doesn't necessarily feel pointed. Also, halle Berry's.

987
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 4: Famous, and I think she was quite famous by this point, right, So.

988
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 3: It's funny that you would ask to like she was

989
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 3: getting famous. But at this time we had not sort

990
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 3: of accepted that halle Berry was a star star, and

991
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 3: so she had done interesting the Spike Lee movie Jungle Fever,

992
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 3: where she plays Samuel L. Jackson's girlfriend and she's like

993
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: heavily drug addicted and it's very sad. She's in that

994
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: movie Losing Isaiah, where she's another person who has kind

995
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 3: of a sad trajectory in the movie.

996
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 5: She's in The Flint Stone.

997
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 3: That's right, she's the like sexy secretary alongside Billy Zane.

998
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 3: She turns out to be like the bad guy in

999
00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: that movie.

1000
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 5: Not to spoil Hockley, Yes, and her character's name is

1001
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 5: Sharon stone seteeny amazing.

1002
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: She's also on Boomerang in ninety two.

1003
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 5: So she's like famous but maybe not leading lady famous yet.

1004
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 5: Is that where we're at?

1005
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: That's what I would put it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's

1006
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 3: sort of getting there. But like I think that if

1007
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 3: there was like a star attached to this movie, it

1008
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 3: was halle Berry.

1009
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 5: Right, because I was like, where is halle Berry in

1010
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 5: her career at this point? Okay, so she's not like,

1011
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 5: it's not Peek halle Berry quite yet.

1012
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 3: Correct.

1013
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 4: I feel like that's maybe early two thousands either way.

1014
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like Nissi does kind of get the

1015
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 5: edge in terms of the attention that the movie pays

1016
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 5: and think it like clicked for me meaningfully, even though

1017
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 5: it's like it's not like Mickey is in it less,

1018
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 5: but Nissi's story kind of takes precedence more. Her relationship

1019
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,479
Speaker 5: with mister Blake Moore is closer and the movie puts

1020
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 5: more emphasis on it, and her relationship with her boyfriend

1021
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 5: from home is given way more president because when Mickey's

1022
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 5: boyfriend comes back, James, you're sort of like, who is

1023
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 5: this guy again?

1024
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 4: But we've been hearing about Nissy's boyfriend the whole time.

1025
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: True.

1026
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 5: In that scene in the car, I was like, they're

1027
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 5: gonna do it, They're gonna do it. Where she's like

1028
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 5: I've been in love with someone from day one. I

1029
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 5: was like, I've only ever seen this man yell at you.

1030
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, No, the.

1031
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 3: Time to talk about how much I hate the boyfriends, Yeah,

1032
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 3: lay into them. So I like a lot about this movie,

1033
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 3: But the thing I cannot stand is the boyfriends and

1034
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 3: the scene at the end. I feel like this comes

1035
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 3: up in movies that y'all talk about a lot, where

1036
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 3: Mickey and Nissi have this like trajectory where they learn

1037
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 3: a lot about themselves, they have a lot of developments

1038
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,919
Speaker 3: all of that. Meanwhile, all Nisy's boyfriend does is, I guess,

1039
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: get his driver's license and cut his hair and that

1040
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 3: like that's meant to be like, oh he is good

1041
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 3: enough for me now. Poor Mickey, her boyfriend doesn't do

1042
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 3: anything but cry and be like I want to take

1043
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 3: you out to dinner and then fall into a As

1044
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 3: far as we know, he has no character arc, no development.

1045
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: He has just come back and is just crying at.

1046
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 4: Her, and he also like insults her multiple points.

1047
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 5: I think he's the only example I don't well, actually

1048
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 5: which boyfriend was it. It's either her boyfriend or Niezy's

1049
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 5: boyfriend in the Club Winner's Still in Georgia that like

1050
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 5: calls her a heifer and like is like, that's the

1051
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 5: only example I could find in the movie that like

1052
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 5: her like sizes commented on in any way, and it's

1053
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 5: by someone that loves her question mark like hate it. Fuck.

1054
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 3: I think what's going on here is a trope that

1055
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 3: was like very popular in the nineties. It's still a

1056
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 3: thing now, but like, I think we're getting away from it,

1057
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 3: which is like, it is much better to be just

1058
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 3: with somebody than single, right. I think that either of

1059
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: these two women, especially at the end when they get

1060
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: the money, would be much better off without either of

1061
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 3: these two scrubs. But I think in the universe of

1062
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 3: this movie, they're like, oh, well, better to have somebody

1063
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 3: who calls you a heifer than nobody, And yeah, I

1064
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 3: just I hate that so much. They would be much

1065
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: better off without either of those guys.

1066
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. I don't know why they're they're at all,

1067
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 2: or if they need to be there at the beginning

1068
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 2: to signify like these women don't have a full understanding

1069
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 2: of their worth yet. But then they learn that and

1070
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: they learn that they're better off without these guys, and

1071
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: they dump them and then they're written out of the

1072
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 2: movie for the rest of the movie. But why do

1073
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: they come back and why do they have like a

1074
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 2: redemption arc? And I think it's implied that, like the

1075
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 2: cars in their car service business that they start up

1076
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 2: are the same cars from the estate, so they just

1077
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: like get those cars for free, and then they're like,

1078
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: here's our business now, and it's like, no, you guys

1079
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 2: don't deserve any of this. You treat your girlfriends poorly,

1080
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 2: and you need to get the fuck out of here.

1081
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 3: Yes, like the girls had an arc that led to

1082
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 3: them getting the money, so presumably the guys are just

1083
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 3: taking some of their money to start their and the

1084
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 3: cars to start their business, which was lofty to begin with.

1085
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: And we're meant to swoon like I don't I don't

1086
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 3: like it. Y'all can keep that it stinks. Yeah.

1087
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 5: No, that was really really frustrating, And even with the

1088
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 5: way that their loser coded feels also very like kind.

1089
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 4: Of entrenched in class presentation too, because really.

1090
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 5: All that's changed when niece's boyfriend whose name escapes me

1091
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 5: and will continue to that's okay when he no h

1092
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 5: make his boyfriend al Ali. When Ali comes back, all

1093
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 5: that's really changed is how he's presenting himself. He's presenting

1094
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 5: himself in a more upper class quote unquote respectable way.

1095
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 5: But it's like, yeah, that doesn't change how you have

1096
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 5: treated her this entire time. And it feels like this

1097
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 5: sort of other side of a Cinderella come up narrative

1098
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 5: where it's like if a guy learns how to dress

1099
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 5: differently like they're richer, then all is forgiven and it

1100
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 5: implies that like that makes him a better person, and

1101
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 5: he does treat her better once he's wearing nicer clothes.

1102
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 5: It's just like nith.

1103
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 2: Very nineties mentality.

1104
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is like a thing that happens within the

1105
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 3: universe of the film with Mickey and Nissi too, where

1106
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 3: as the film goes on, their clothes and their hair

1107
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 3: and their nails and their teeth get like less and

1108
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 3: less and less outlandish. You might be like, oh, well,

1109
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 3: they're in Beverly Hills, so they're just and they go shopping,

1110
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 3: so they're you know, learning how to fit in with

1111
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 3: where they're at. But within the universe of the film.

1112
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 3: I do have a question of, like, well, is the

1113
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 3: film trying to be like, oh, the way they were

1114
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 3: dressed at the beginning is bad, and now that they're

1115
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: dressed more conservative, it's good. And her boyfriend cut his

1116
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: perm and so that's good, and now they are a match.

1117
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 3: Because again I recognize that the way that they dress

1118
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 3: in the beginning is like over the top, but like,

1119
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 3: I don't think it's bad, and I don't think it's

1120
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 3: like says something about who they are. And I wonder

1121
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 3: if the movie is maybe saying something different, Yeah, I'm.

1122
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 5: With you on this journey with you, because I mean

1123
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 5: up until that point where the ending, also, all of

1124
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 5: the stuff about their dreams coming true happens during the credits,

1125
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 5: and you're like why why why? But yeah, like that

1126
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 5: aesthetic change felt pointed when that was like something I

1127
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 5: up to that point had really liked about the movie

1128
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 5: was even though they are deceiving, mister Blake Moore.

1129
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: I mean, rich white men should be tricked.

1130
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 5: It's truly a victimist crime. He likes it, and he yeah,

1131
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 5: it turns him on. So whatever, Like it seems like

1132
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 5: everyone is okay with the deception that they're involved with

1133
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 5: even though there's like brief you know, just speaking to

1134
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 5: like the kind of random unevenness of the movie where

1135
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 5: halle Berry is like racked with guilt in some scenes

1136
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 5: and then other scenes she's like my whatever, Like I'm

1137
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 5: on the side of my whatever. But either way, like

1138
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 5: outside of that sort of plot contrivance, they're themselves for

1139
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 5: the whole movie. They're not like adjusting who are They're

1140
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 5: not I think, outside of like a few kind of

1141
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 5: jokes that again I thought was interesting and I didn't

1142
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 5: miss that they didn't get into it more. But like

1143
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 5: halle Berry has like an etiquette book, and etiquette books

1144
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 5: are so entrenched in how to act like a respectable

1145
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 5: white woman, and that's just what that whole cottage industry is,

1146
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 5: especially the further back in time you go. But that's

1147
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 5: dropped immediately and they're themselves the whole movie, and they

1148
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 5: are appreciated for being themselves. And so to see that

1149
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 5: little aesthetic change at the end felt like, well, they

1150
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 5: were like loved and accepted for who they were.

1151
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like the movie doesn't kind of misses

1152
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: an opportunity to comment on the fact that like, yes,

1153
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: they feel the pressure to adhere to this like standard

1154
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 2: of propriety that is very much put forth by like

1155
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 2: wealthy white society, and that they're like trying to adhere

1156
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,439
Speaker 2: to it. Either from an etiquette point of view. There's

1157
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: like scenes where someone says, like, oh, how are you,

1158
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 2: and then like Mickey responds and like the way that

1159
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 2: she traditionally would, and then Nissie cuts in to be like, no,

1160
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 2: we're doing very well, thank you, like in a very

1161
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 2: like proper kind of way. But yeah, they usually abandoned

1162
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 2: that sort of like etiquette propriety stuff that they were

1163
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 2: trying to learn and then they just behave like themselves.

1164
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: But as far as like they're esthetic choices, which is

1165
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 2: like one of the most memorable things about their characters,

1166
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: and like the poster is like very much like look

1167
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 2: at them and their flashy outfits and they're wacky hair

1168
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: jews and stuff like that. That gets more and more toned

1169
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: down throughout the movie, and I feel like the movie

1170
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 2: doesn't fully comment on like, ye, well, why are they

1171
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 2: like leaning into adhering to these like standards of propriety

1172
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 2: when that's not who they are, Like, that's not how

1173
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,959
Speaker 2: they want to present themselves. And it just sort of like, yeah,

1174
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: well they're just doing it the end. So I wish

1175
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 2: there had been more like thoughtful examination of that.

1176
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that their aesthetic choices are such

1177
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 3: a big part of this movie and something that I

1178
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 3: was really and I would also want for the movie

1179
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 3: to sort of take stock of that a little bit differently,

1180
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 3: the same as you. And I also like a quote

1181
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 3: that was looming large in my mind when I was

1182
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 3: rewatching this was from this fashion designer Narsha Willis, who

1183
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 3: used to do these shirts that say ghetto until proven

1184
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 3: fashionable because you're meant to think that these outfits are

1185
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 3: outlandish and over the top, but if they were wearing

1186
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 3: them today, like on TikTok or on Instagram, they would

1187
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 3: absolutely kill. And so my god, yeah would they like kill?

1188
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 3: And so I do think like it goes back to

1189
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 3: what I was saying about, like when I saw this

1190
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 3: movie as a youth, to me, it felt like, uh,

1191
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 3: sometimes over the top celebration of the ways that sometimes

1192
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 3: these fashion choices can be so creative, so like on

1193
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: another level, so future forward, just so doing their own creative,

1194
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: distinct different thing that certainly took creative know how to

1195
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 3: get there, and today in twenty twenty four, that is

1196
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 3: like even more salient, but within the universe of the film. Again,

1197
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 3: I agree with you, Caitlin. I don't know that they

1198
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 3: are aware of the ways in which people like me

1199
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 3: are watching it and being like, oh my god, there's trendsetters,

1200
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, right.

1201
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 5: It feels like a very like having it both ways,

1202
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 5: where it's like the movie obviously knows that they look incredible,

1203
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 5: but it's also undercut by like, but this is like

1204
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 5: can't be quote unquote like low class incredible, where you're like, no,

1205
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 5: this is like really influential fashion. And the outfits at

1206
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 5: the end, you know, they look great because they're gorgeous,

1207
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 5: but what is that that's a pantsuit?

1208
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 3: It's not them.

1209
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a.

1210
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton outfit, you know, like it's I don't I

1211
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 5: don't love it.

1212
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 2: It's especially frustrating considering that, like so much of American

1213
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 2: pop culture, which permeates like global pop culture as far

1214
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 2: as just clothes and media and all that kind of

1215
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 2: stuff is invented by black people and black women, So

1216
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 2: it's like, well, then why are they toning it down?

1217
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 3: Like ugh?

1218
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 5: I mean, also that's invented the fact that the term

1219
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 5: baps like that existed prior to this movie, and it

1220
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 5: is so just I don't know, like weird, maybe tongue

1221
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 5: in cheek to just attribute it to Martin Landau and

1222
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 5: this is very much a term that came out of

1223
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 5: the black community. But they're like, no, it's basically Martin

1224
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 5: Landa's idea. He was dying one day and was like,

1225
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 5: guess what I had just thought of? Anyways, Yeah, I

1226
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 5: don't know. There's other tropes that this movie subscribes to

1227
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 5: that I am more tempted to attribute to, like the

1228
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 5: Cinderella genre we're in where there is like devious nephew, right,

1229
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 5: But ultimately the two old white men in this movie

1230
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 5: are great guys that deserve the best, which is very

1231
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 5: like part I think of mister Bald from Annie or whatever.

1232
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 4: Who's mister Bald.

1233
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 5: What's his name?

1234
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 4: Oh, mister Noah hair I can't think of his name.

1235
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 5: Daddy wore Bucks, yes, right, like just someone that you're like,

1236
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 5: the way that they got this money has to be evil.

1237
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 5: You can't get this much money doing something good for

1238
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 5: the world. But in the world of this rags to

1239
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 5: riches story, they are this benevolent force that has to

1240
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 5: be on the side of our protagonist, which is often

1241
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 5: a young woman or girl. Rich white old man gives

1242
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 5: young women a lot of money. You know, I'd accept it.

1243
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 5: But this is very much a formula that exists, and

1244
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 5: I feel like the Martin Landau character being at the

1245
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 5: end of the day a nice old man. It falls

1246
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 5: cleanly into that.

1247
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 3: What do we think he did for a living? Or like,

1248
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 3: how do you think he made his millions?

1249
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 5: They said fabrics and I was like, oh, yeah, which

1250
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 5: I'm like that, So I'm not optimistic about his like labor.

1251
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 2: Right, the labor practices, I'm sure very exploitative.

1252
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 5: But we're not supposed to think about.

1253
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 4: That no or any movie like it.

1254
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 3: Right.

1255
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 2: I would like to draw some parallels between this movie

1256
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 2: and Eddie murphy Haunted Mansion, because both movies, yeah, friend,

1257
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Both movies involve a rich white

1258
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 2: guy who was in love with a black woman and

1259
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:41,959
Speaker 2: the family disapproved and she ends up gone in a way,

1260
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 2: and we're not really sure what happens to.

1261
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 5: Her, even know if she's alive or not. Are they

1262
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 5: going to say if she's alive? Is he going to

1263
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 5: ask if she's alive?

1264
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 2: I thought maybe Lily would show up me at some point,

1265
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 2: but no, we're not really sure.

1266
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 4: Right, it seems like pointed that they weren't saying that

1267
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 4: she had died.

1268
01:05:58,720 --> 01:05:58,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1269
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 5: I was like, Oh, she's gonna come back at the

1270
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 5: end to be like halle Berry, you impostor.

1271
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: But she doesn't.

1272
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 4: We will die with that mystery.

1273
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 2: We don't know we will, And I wanted to Mansion

1274
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: at least we know that that woman does very dead die.

1275
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 2: But anyway, Also, there's like a butler in both stories

1276
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 2: who's like, they play out very differently in the two movies,

1277
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 2: but there is a butler who's like very loyal to

1278
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: his rich white guy boss. And you know, so I

1279
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 2: think that's where the parallels end.

1280
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 4: But that's still I mean, but yeah, the butler in

1281
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 4: Haunted Mansion ends up being quite evil.

1282
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 2: Evil Yeah yeah, yeah, he gets dragged to hell.

1283
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 4: Playing Butler Stereo times Justice for Butler's.

1284
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 5: Sorry. I'm on Daddy Warbucks's Wikipedia.

1285
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 3: Actually we're gonna say Daddy warbucks dot com.

1286
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 4: I was like, what did Daddy Warbucks do bad?

1287
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 5: He was an industrialist, but his Wikipedia page is very

1288
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 5: funny and he is not real. He eventually became a

1289
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 5: foreman in the rolling mill, married Missus Warbucks and worked

1290
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:09,959
Speaker 5: and planned for a family and house of their own.

1291
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 5: When Daddy began they call him daddy throughout. When Daddy

1292
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 5: began to make big money during World War One, his

1293
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 5: marital happiness was lost.

1294
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 4: You're like, oh, no.

1295
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 3: Daddy, Daddy.

1296
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 2: No, also a foreman in a mill. Who is this

1297
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 2: Billy's aid from Titanic?

1298
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is villain coded uh, Daddy. That's basically who

1299
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 5: Martin Lantau is in this. They keep going uncle, he's uncle, Daddy,

1300
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 5: He's daddy, And that's fine.

1301
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about?

1302
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 3: I just had one other note, which is that some

1303
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 3: of the references in this movie were so first of all,

1304
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 3: very of an era, but also so tight. When the

1305
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 3: girls are fighting Antonio, they think he's burglar and they're like,

1306
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do them like Tyson, and she's like, oh,

1307
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 3: you didn't see the last fight because you were in

1308
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 3: the kitchen getting popcorn. That Do you remember how in

1309
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 3: the nineties Tyson was known for like these big hyped

1310
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,959
Speaker 3: boxing matches would only last for like thirty seconds because

1311
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 3: he would knock people out. Oh, I remember distinctly. My

1312
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 3: parents had a fight party and my dad went to

1313
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 3: get burgers off the grill, and when he came back,

1314
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 3: the fight was over and they had paid, like I

1315
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 3: don't know however much money back then, one hundred dollars

1316
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 3: or something to get the fight on pay per view.

1317
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 3: And it was like, well, I guess you missed it.

1318
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 4: Oh wow, okay, I did not.

1319
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 3: Know that some of these references are so tight, and so.

1320
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 2: Just like, yeah, it's good, it's good. Unfortunately, one of

1321
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 2: my favorite jokes is from one of the Loser boyfriends.

1322
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: But it's when Mickey's boyfriend James is saying, how oh,

1323
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 2: when we got to dinner, you know, we have to

1324
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 2: watch other people eat and he's crying and he's like,

1325
01:08:58,840 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 2: I want to eat too.

1326
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 3: So okay, that was a pretty good line. I'll give

1327
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 3: him that.

1328
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 2: That's a good joke.

1329
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 5: He had one moment, had one moment, and then he

1330
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 5: Leonardo DiCaprio and fell into a body of water fully clothed.

1331
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 3: Wait, is that a Leonardo dicaprioism.

1332
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 2: Yes, In every movie he's basically he will end up

1333
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 2: in a body of water with all of his clothes on.

1334
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 2: I made a super cut to this effect. It's stunning

1335
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: and if you want to watch it, you should come

1336
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 2: to our Shrek Tannic tour in the UK because we

1337
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 2: will be showing it at the show.

1338
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 4: Really great plug opportunity.

1339
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was masterful, Thank you so much, thank you.

1340
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 5: The only other thing I had was just again pulling

1341
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 5: from that Refinery twenty nine article that opens with just

1342
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 5: a couple of statistics that illustrates how like we've been

1343
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:56,719
Speaker 5: talking about this whole episode, how this is a rare

1344
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 5: movie that centers black women and also so allows them

1345
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 5: to have fun and be goofy, and how rare that is.

1346
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 5: And then that countered with the other thing we've been

1347
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 5: talking about, which is how hyper critical and overly critical

1348
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 5: critics tend to be of movies that don't really exist

1349
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 5: very often. Yeah, how An Cohen opens the article is

1350
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 5: with these stats that I thought, what interesting. Hollywood released

1351
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 5: approximately one hundred and forty three movies in nineteen ninety seven.

1352
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 5: Of those, just seventeen starred a black performer in the

1353
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 5: top billing. Most of those roles, as with men in

1354
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 5: black double team money talks, most wanted and switched back,

1355
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 5: were given to black men opposite white male co leads.

1356
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 5: Others like Amistad focused on a historic slavery narrative, so

1357
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 5: that there's only really a couple of movies each year,

1358
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 5: especially at this time, that centers strictly black characters at all,

1359
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 5: much less black women. The only other ensemble movies that

1360
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 5: came out, we've actually covered one us Love Jones and

1361
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 5: Soul Food.

1362
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 4: So yeah, I just like speaks to like this movie.

1363
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 5: Does it have its faults?

1364
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 3: Yes?

1365
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's also a goofy comedy from nineteen ninety seven.

1366
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 2: It's an extremely goofy movie, I would say.

1367
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,759
Speaker 3: I would say that as well representation as a goofy

1368
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 3: black girl. We need representation for our goofy corny asses

1369
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 3: to like engage in some screwball hijakes on screen.

1370
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need more hijacks, more hijis. Yeah, I think

1371
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 5: that was all I had. Does anyone else have anything?

1372
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 2: Nope?

1373
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:36,879
Speaker 5: This movie passes the Bechdel test.

1374
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 2: Yes it does. The women are talking now and then

1375
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 2: about their boyfriends or about don or Antonio, but they

1376
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 2: also talk about hair, they talk about food, they talk

1377
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 2: about opening up their business, they talk about dancing, they

1378
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 2: talk about being in la all that kind of stuff.

1379
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 2: So handily passing what about our nipple scale, though, where

1380
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 2: we rate the movie on a scale of zero to

1381
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 2: five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens.

1382
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 2: I'm tempted to go like a three and a half

1383
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 2: or a four on this one. I love that this

1384
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 2: is a movie made by black filmmakers that features and

1385
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 2: centers a friendship between two black women that is fun

1386
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 2: and light and there's a distinct lack of tragedy, which, again,

1387
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 2: like as we were just kind of hinting at, so

1388
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 2: many stories, especially from this era, that centered black characters

1389
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 2: were like rife with the tragedy of the black experience,

1390
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 2: and this movie is just like all about like it's

1391
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 2: a Cinderella story, as we've been saying, like it's a

1392
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 2: fairy tale, and it's just like so fun to watch

1393
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 2: these characters. And I don't know why the boyfriends are

1394
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 2: there right them out of the story. There's some like

1395
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 2: kind of class implications that I don't love, but other

1396
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 2: than that, it's just like such a fun movie about

1397
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 2: two black women who are best friends and they're grifting

1398
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 2: a rich white guy and that's what should happen all

1399
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 2: the time.

1400
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:22,639
Speaker 4: So and I just can't enough how much he's loving

1401
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 4: the grift.

1402
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love it.

1403
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 2: He's obsessed. So I'm gonna give it four nipples. I

1404
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 2: am sad on Troy Buyer's behalf that she didn't like

1405
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 2: the final product and felt that her story and her

1406
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 2: words in the screenplay were not properly translated to film.

1407
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 2: But despite that, it's still a fun, enjoyable movie for me.

1408
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go four nipples, and I will

1409
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 2: split them between Troy Buyer, halle Berry, and Natalie des

1410
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 2: sill Read.

1411
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 5: I think like a three and a half because I

1412
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 5: really feel Troy Byer's pain here and being like, it's

1413
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,600
Speaker 5: my big break. I've been acting for years, this is

1414
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 5: my big screenwriting break. Black women so infrequently get to

1415
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 5: write anything on a scale like this and then to

1416
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 5: watch it and be like, oh, my heart is with her.

1417
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 5: And also I think that there's so much to love

1418
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 5: about this movie. It's so fun. It centers black women

1419
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 5: and their friendship in ways that we almost never see

1420
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 5: in movies. Even now. The ways that I find it

1421
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 5: frustrating are very of its time, mostly the boyfriends. Honestly, like,

1422
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 5: I think that it didn't become permissible until sometime in

1423
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 5: the two thousands. For a protagonist who is a straight

1424
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 5: woman to end up not with a man, even if

1425
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 5: that man is not good for her, She's got to

1426
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 5: end up with somebody, and that is the case here.

1427
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 5: But I feel like, if you can cut through that noise,

1428
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 5: it's just like, the performances are so funny. I love Like,

1429
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 5: if we don't get to see halle Berry do comedy ever,

1430
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 5: which is I feel like the dancing audition line scene alone,

1431
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 5: You're like, well, we deserved more of halle Berry comedy movies.

1432
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 5: And Natalie dcell is a master comic actor. She's amazing,

1433
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 5: and I wish she had more to do here. I

1434
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 5: wish that there was like more of an even protagonist

1435
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 5: situation here. But I love to see her. I love her.

1436
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 5: It's so wild that she was in two really fun, amazing,

1437
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 5: very different Cinderella stories that centered black women in the

1438
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 5: same year. Good for You in nineteen ninety seven and Yeah,

1439
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 5: I hate the boyfriends, love the baps. Three and a

1440
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 5: half nipples.

1441
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 2: Put that on a shirt.

1442
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 3: I would buy it. Hell yeah, is it out of

1443
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 3: five nips?

1444
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:55,719
Speaker 2: Out of five nips?

1445
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm gonna go for Obviously, I have a soft

1446
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 3: spot for this movie. I feel any movie that you

1447
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 3: watched with your head cradled on your hands on your

1448
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 3: tummy while kicking your feet at a slumber party, you

1449
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 3: can only go solo. I agree. I do feel for

1450
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 3: the screenwriter, and I'm really happy that she spoke up.

1451
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 3: I would love to see her original version of this movie,

1452
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:18,640
Speaker 3: like what was her vision. I also a sucker for

1453
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 3: a movie that has a lot of random cameos people

1454
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 3: of an era playing themselves. You know, I don't think

1455
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 3: it's heavy v is in the movie. Yeah. So, like

1456
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 3: there's a one scene where they go to dinner and

1457
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 3: it's like every celebrity ever is having dinner has the

1458
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 3: same reservation time. So I love all the fun nineties cameos. Yeah, yeah,

1459
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 3: I just I love a screwball comedy, and I just

1460
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 3: get the sense that the two leads were like off

1461
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 3: screen and on screen like friends. You just can you

1462
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 3: can just send a work from them that is really delightful.

1463
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 2: So I'll go for Oh beautiful Bridget, thank you so

1464
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 2: much for joining us again. It's always such a treat

1465
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 2: to have you come back anytime.

1466
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 3: Oh my god, thank you for having this. You know,

1467
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 3: this was such a great way to spend my getting

1468
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 3: to watch baths and then talk about it thoughtfully for

1469
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 3: an hour, like thank you, this is a gift.

1470
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 5: We're so happy to do it, Like it's this movie

1471
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 5: put me in a great mood, right I have finished.

1472
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 5: Pacheco was like, I, oh god, it's so hard to

1473
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 5: be in a great mood.

1474
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 4: At this movie put me in a great mood truly.

1475
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 2: Where can people check out your work? Follow you on

1476
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 2: social media, et cetera.

1477
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can check out my podcast on iHeartRadio called

1478
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,719
Speaker 3: There Are No Girls on the Internet. You can later

1479
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 3: this month, depending on when this comes out, you can

1480
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:34,679
Speaker 3: listen to another podcast that I have with Next Chapter

1481
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:38,440
Speaker 3: Podcasts called Beef, where we are digging into the juiciest

1482
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 3: historical rivalries that you've never heard of. Well, yeah, you

1483
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 3: can find me on Instagram at bridget Marie and DC,

1484
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 3: on Twitter at Bridget Marie, on Blue Sky at Bridget tad,

1485
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 3: or on TikTok at Bridget makes Pods very nice.

1486
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 2: I just learned what Blue Sky was. How did I

1487
01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 2: miss it?

1488
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 5: I have an account and I posted once and then

1489
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 5: I was like, all right, get them done, and you

1490
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 5: did it.

1491
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 3: My New Year's reolution was to use Twitter less. So

1492
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:08,840
Speaker 3: that's I'm trying to like play with blue Sky more.

1493
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 3: So maybe I'll see all there.

1494
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, yeah, see you there anyway. You can follow

1495
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 2: us on Patreon aka r Matreon at patreon dot com

1496
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 2: slash Bechtyl Cast. We released two episodes every month, plus

1497
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 2: you'll get access to our back catalog of over one

1498
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty episodes at this point, all for five

1499
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 2: dollars a month.

1500
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 5: If you live in the UK, you can come see

1501
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 5: us on tour. We're gonna be touring throughout the UK

1502
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 5: in number of cities, more days to come in late May,

1503
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 5: so check that out. And you can also get our

1504
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 5: merch at teapoplic dot com slash the Bechtel Cast.

1505
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 2: That's right. Links to all of that stuff, including the

1506
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 2: ticket links for our tour, are at linktree slash Bechtel Cast.

1507
01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 2: So scoot over there, grab those tickets, grab that merch,

1508
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 2: wear it to the show, et cetera, and yeah, we'll

1509
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 2: see you later. Wow, amazing dismount.

1510
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 5: I have a reservation along with every famous person at

1511
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 5: Beverly Hills at the restaurant Parselon, So if you'd like

1512
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 5: to join me and scream at various celebrities.

1513
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:17,640
Speaker 2: That's for a yeah, And I'm gonna go there and

1514
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, Jamie Loftis, I love you,

1515
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 2: I love your book.

1516
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 5: Raw Dogs, be like easy, easy, I'm just trying to

1517
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 5: eat hair.

1518
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 3: They hated Dennis Radman for they Yes, we'll do, We'll do,

1519
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:34,640
Speaker 3: Bye Bye bye.

1520
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1521
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 2: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1522
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1523
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo in merch

1524
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1525
01:19:56,160 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1526
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 2: linktree slash Bechtelcast