Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Snake's Territory, part
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network. Be sure to like this video,
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel, maybe leave us a five
Speaker 1: star review wherever you get your podcast. I am Jesse
Speaker 1: Friedman alongside Jack Summers and Jack. The trade deadline is
Speaker 1: now less than twenty four hours away. I think it's
Speaker 1: about nineteen hours fifty nine minutes, give or take, as
Speaker 1: we get This show started on Sunday evening. Nothing has
Speaker 1: happened as of yet for the Diamondbacks, Jack, and Frankly
Speaker 1: around the league, not a whole lot has happened either.
Speaker 1: It feels like it's going to be a really busy
Speaker 1: rush to the finish line.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, actions definitely started picking up today. I
Speaker 2: actually had somebody text me, I don't know if this
Speaker 2: is true, said fun fact, only Reds, Marlins and d
Speaker 2: Becks have yet to make a move. Is that true?
Speaker 2: It could be.
Speaker 3: I don't mean moves and a few big ones that
Speaker 3: came through tonight, obviously after the Trek School deal.
Speaker 2: So I'm starting Pitcher moves.
Speaker 1: Padres haven't done anything yet, right, I think there's I
Speaker 1: think there's other teams on that list as well, but yeah,
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks are certainly one of them. And granted this
Speaker 1: is it's really hard to predict when these moves are
Speaker 1: going to happen. Like, just because the Diamondbacks haven't done
Speaker 1: anything now, I don't think at all means that this
Speaker 1: is going to be a disappointing trade deadline for them.
Speaker 1: At the same time, we have seen a few names
Speaker 1: that we've talked about on the show come off the board,
Speaker 1: and I guess we'll start our conversation there. Earlier today,
Speaker 1: the New York Yankees acquired Luis Garcia Junior from the
Speaker 1: Washington Nationals in exchange for four pitching prospects. Garcia, of course,
Speaker 1: a really good left handed hitter, place first base roster wise,
Speaker 1: made a whole lot of sense for the Diamondbacks. There
Speaker 1: was reporting that said the Diamondbacks were interested. It's not
Speaker 1: like they didn't have any interest at all in pulling
Speaker 1: this off. But ultimately, I guess the Nationals chose the
Speaker 1: Yankees pitching prospects over the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they got four pitchers. One of them
Speaker 2: was Bird He's thirty years old. But I think that
Speaker 2: at this point, you know, the Dbacks pitching development isn't
Speaker 2: held in high regard in the industry. That's a fairly
Speaker 2: universal thought.
Speaker 3: So it's not surprising that an organization like the Yankees,
Speaker 3: who just keep churning out some pretty good pitchers their
Speaker 3: prospects would be held in higher esteem by a team
Speaker 3: like the Nationals. You know, I think that the price
Speaker 3: tag for Garcia because of the year of control in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven, if they play that year and if
Speaker 3: the you know where his free agency lands.
Speaker 2: Is he going to be a free agent in twenty eight.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about all that a little later, but I
Speaker 3: think that that year of control probably would have made the.
Speaker 2: Price tag quite stiff for the Diamondbacks. You know, what
Speaker 2: little pitching they have at the top end of their
Speaker 2: organization probably would have had to cough up for him.
Speaker 2: So that's my guest there, but hard to say. You know,
Speaker 2: we don't even know if they ever help deep they
Speaker 2: got into the conversation. Bottom line, he's off the board.
Speaker 1: We've seen some starting pitchers go off the board as well.
Speaker 1: Tyler Mallley just going to the Atlanta Braves here. In
Speaker 1: the last hour or so, we saw Kevin Gosman go
Speaker 1: to the Chicago Cubs earlier today as well, Freddie Peralta
Speaker 1: goes to the Tampa Bay Rays. I don't think this
Speaker 1: means the d Backs are not going to get a
Speaker 1: starting pitcher. Jack. In fact, I still I still do
Speaker 1: kind of think that's going to happen. There's still a
Speaker 1: number of starting pitchers on the market, including rental starters.
Speaker 1: Brady Singer of the Reds is still out there, Foster
Speaker 1: Griffin of the Nats, Robbie Ray of the Giants, Shane
Speaker 1: Bieber with the Blue Jays, Dustin May of the Cardinals
Speaker 1: is still out there. And a name that is particularly
Speaker 1: interesting from the Diamondbacks perspective is Casey Mice of the
Speaker 1: Detroit Tigers, a name that they've been linked to in
Speaker 1: the past couple of days. Gambo came out on his
Speaker 1: radio show the other day and said this. He said,
Speaker 1: keep your eye on Casey Mice. I think that's a
Speaker 1: player that they like. Speaking of the Diamondbacks, keep your
Speaker 1: eye on Casey Mize. And we've been around the Arizona
Speaker 1: sports scene long enough Jack to know that when Gambo
Speaker 1: says something like that, it probably means that the Diamondbacks
Speaker 1: are you making some sort of progress. Or at least
Speaker 1: that's a name that they feel like they have a
Speaker 1: legitimate shot of landing by three pm tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Gambo would make that up right, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously somebody dropped that name to him, whether or not
Speaker 2: that's actually who they are willing to go all in
Speaker 2: for or whether they're going to have the package. So
Speaker 2: he's not saying that they're definitely going to get them,
Speaker 2: but he's saying, keep an eye on this guy. It's
Speaker 2: clearly a name that they have interested in. And we
Speaker 2: know all so of course that the Dbacks scouted Clay Holmes,
Speaker 2: so you know, those are the two guys that I'm
Speaker 2: mostly paying attention to. You know, they both kind of
Speaker 2: fit in financially. We've talked about before with Robbie Ray.
Speaker 2: I mean, even if you're just taking on thirty percent
Speaker 2: of his payroll, of his salary, that's going to eat
Speaker 2: up basically all of the available payroll that you can
Speaker 2: absorb before you go over the luxury tax, which the
Speaker 2: Diamondbacks are adamant they will not do. So I don't
Speaker 2: really think Robbie Ray is a realistic option there to consider,
Speaker 2: unless the Giants were to eat a portion of that,
Speaker 2: and again, if you're gonna get the Giants to eat
Speaker 2: a portion of that, what do you have to give
Speaker 2: up in terms of prospects to a division rival. So
Speaker 2: I just don't think the match is there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like, especially with the luxury tax situation,
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks, they're right, they're not going to take on
Speaker 1: more than about sixty seven million dollars for the remainder
Speaker 1: of the season. It is prorated, So you're talking about
Speaker 1: just what is on the books for the remainder of
Speaker 1: the year for these guys. We only have about a
Speaker 1: third of the season to go. But if a team
Speaker 1: like the Giants were to cover a couple million dollars
Speaker 1: of Robbie Ray's salary, that doesn't help the Diamondbacks from
Speaker 1: a luxury tax perspective. So it is important to keep
Speaker 1: that in mind. Probably going to make it difficult for
Speaker 1: the d Backs to acquire anyone here in the next
Speaker 1: nineteen hours and fifty three minutes that is making, you know,
Speaker 1: any kind of meaningful money. It's just going to be
Speaker 1: tricky to pull that off. With regard to Clay Holmes,
Speaker 1: I found this tweet from earlier today. This is from
Speaker 1: Joel Sherman. He said, Clay Holmes in his rehab start
Speaker 1: at High A, Brooklyn, which I believe happened today, five
Speaker 1: and a third inning, seven hits, three runs to earned,
Speaker 1: no walks, three strikeouts, seventy three pitches. Word from the
Speaker 1: stadium was his main pitch. Sinker was good at ninety
Speaker 1: one miles per hour topped at ninety three. Secondary stuff
Speaker 1: if you're looked like a healthy pitcher. Of course, Holmes
Speaker 1: working his way back from that fibula injury. And we
Speaker 1: also did hear that the Diamondbacks are one of the
Speaker 1: teams that had had a scout in attendance for this
Speaker 1: rehab outing. So Clay Holmes jack is one of the
Speaker 1: more desirable starters, one of the more desirable rentals remaining
Speaker 1: on the market. And it sounds like the interest is
Speaker 1: very much still there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think when we talked about him before,
Speaker 2: one of the things that we liked about him was
Speaker 2: that there is some I guess flexibility there, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, he spent most of his career as a reliever.
Speaker 2: You know, on the off chance that the Diamondbacks got
Speaker 2: all their starters back healthy and pitching well and they
Speaker 2: needed more help in the bullpen. Maybe he could be
Speaker 2: an option there as well. So I like that flexibility
Speaker 2: or swing man, especially when you get to the postseason
Speaker 2: where you know you may want to have a guy
Speaker 2: like you may have who knows they may get to
Speaker 2: the postseason and have too many starters. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: not out of the realm of possibility. So we'll see
Speaker 2: where they go with this. But you know, Clay Holmes
Speaker 2: and Myes, of course, of the two most attractive options.
Speaker 2: We'll see if they get them. Just responding to a
Speaker 2: question here in the chat about ktel Marte, He's never
Speaker 2: done any work at first base that I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: And if you think that Luisa Rise is going to
Speaker 2: be resistant to moving off second base, boy have I
Speaker 2: got news for you about how coateel Marte might feel
Speaker 2: about that. He doesn't mind dhing to get off his feet,
Speaker 2: but katel Marte is the second basement and he's not
Speaker 2: going to move over to first base this year. For
Speaker 2: Luisa Rise, that's just.
Speaker 1: Not going to happen now, especially given that Luisa Rise
Speaker 1: does have experience at first base. I don't think you
Speaker 1: like the idea in general of trying to teach a
Speaker 1: guy a new position with two months to go in
Speaker 1: the season. So if the Dbacs were to acquire Luisa Rise,
Speaker 1: I think it would totally be a Rise playing first
Speaker 1: base for the most part, filling in for Katel at
Speaker 1: second occasionally if Katl is dhing or whatnot. But I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if the Diamondbacks are going to
Speaker 1: get Luis Rays. Seems like there's the market there, certainly
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of a lot of interest around
Speaker 1: the league. Not a whole lot of bats are available.
Speaker 1: I do want to circle back to Casey Myz here
Speaker 1: because of the Gambo tweet, the fact we know the
Speaker 1: Diamondbacks have real interest here. I thought this tweet was
Speaker 1: interesting from Nick Pollock at pitcher List on Twitter. Casey
Speaker 1: Myce was scratched from his from his scheduled start believe
Speaker 1: that was either Friday or or yesterday, and Nick made
Speaker 1: an interesting point here he said, here's the real reason
Speaker 1: Casey Miz is in pitching tonight. Casey Miz sat ninety
Speaker 1: four point one miles per hour with his slowest four seamer,
Speaker 1: hitting ninety three point three two starts ago. He sat
Speaker 1: ninety one point nine in his most recent outing and
Speaker 1: fell to under ninety miles an hour in every inning
Speaker 1: of his most recent outing. Now some context, Miz dealt
Speaker 1: with some cramping in his start before this most recent one,
Speaker 1: so there is a bit of a story here, and
Speaker 1: maybe that explains why his velocity was down in his
Speaker 1: first game back from that. Maybe he was being a
Speaker 1: little bit careful there. But you don't necessarily love seeing
Speaker 1: a guy's VLO tick down a couple miles per hour
Speaker 1: right before you acquire him via trade.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, you just have to hope that that
Speaker 2: cramping issue I'm cramping where in his forum, yeah, or
Speaker 2: with it in his legs or did he have a
Speaker 2: tummy egg? I mean, I don't know what that cramping was.
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't research that, so that would be
Speaker 2: useful information to have. I think that, you know, if
Speaker 2: the Dbacks were serious about it, they would have been
Speaker 2: in tune with that. They would have asked the team
Speaker 2: about it. Their scouts would know it, you know. So
Speaker 2: I don't think that they would consider that too big
Speaker 2: of a problem. Our good friend Jeff says spending a
Speaker 2: lot of energy on rental starters. However, I still think
Speaker 2: this team's biggest need is a left handed Slugger, don't disagree.
Speaker 2: We just touched on Garcia. I mean, he was on
Speaker 2: the list of players that not rentals. But we've talked
Speaker 2: about him before. We've talked forever about Nathaniel Lowe. He's
Speaker 2: still out there. His WRC plus is up to like
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty now, by the way, so you know,
Speaker 2: I'd still like to see them drill in on him.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can only imagine that the d Backs
Speaker 2: would have already reached out there and they don't match up,
Speaker 2: or the Reds aren't ready to sell. They won again today,
Speaker 2: so you know, we're not really sure. There was a
Speaker 2: report that they have three hitters that they're willing to trade.
Speaker 2: One of would seem that, you know, between him and
Speaker 2: JJ Blade and Spencer Steer, So I think it's got
Speaker 2: to be low that they're gonna trade. I think that
Speaker 2: if the Dbacks matched up with the Reds and the
Speaker 2: Reds were ready to move him, he had already be
Speaker 2: a Dback. That's what I think. I think that they
Speaker 2: got rebuffed. You know, Mike said something really important the
Speaker 2: other day. He said, when you have the players that
Speaker 2: you're selling, you determined that time of the trade, when
Speaker 2: you don't have the players and you're trying to pursue them.
Speaker 2: The other team determines the time of the trade, and
Speaker 2: I think that there's just a really difficult reality that,
Speaker 2: you know, some of the trades that they may want
Speaker 2: to make, they either don't have the prospect capital or
Speaker 2: they don't have the budget room. With their self imposed
Speaker 2: staying under the luxury text goal, they only got six
Speaker 2: or seven million dollars to spend, and maybe some of
Speaker 2: the other team's prospects are deemed to be better prospects.
Speaker 2: It may not be easy to get the guys that
Speaker 2: they're going for, you know, and at a certain point,
Speaker 2: like you know, do you have the appetite to really
Speaker 2: up your offer to the point where it may not
Speaker 2: be worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, certainly when it comes to bats, it
Speaker 1: feels like they're just or not all that many available.
Speaker 1: We saw Lane Thomas go in a trade to the
Speaker 1: Atlanta Braves. He's now off the market. Luisa Rise, we
Speaker 1: were just discussing just to frame this conversation for us.
Speaker 1: I do want to bring in this clip here from
Speaker 1: Nick Bikoro's story at the Aarzon Our Republic a couple
Speaker 1: of days ago. And he has a quote in here
Speaker 1: from Mike Hazen where Hazen is talking about the Diamondbacks
Speaker 1: top two priorities at the trade deadline, those being a
Speaker 1: starting pitcher and a hitter, likely a left handed one.
Speaker 1: These are Hazen's words, They're one and one A. Those
Speaker 1: are things we're focused on. Nick continues here he did
Speaker 1: not rule out the idea of adding a reliever as well,
Speaker 1: whether it be a high leverage arm or another lefty
Speaker 1: to pair with Brandon Garcia. So I think if you're
Speaker 1: looking for the d Backs to check all three of
Speaker 1: these boxes, starting pitcher, a left handed hitter, and bullpen arm,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you're gonna get that. It seems like
Speaker 1: it would be tricky to pull that off. But starting
Speaker 1: pitching and finding that left handed bat, those seem to
Speaker 1: be the two top priorities, and it's hard to distinguish whether,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think the dbacs are viewing one
Speaker 1: of those as a must and the other one is
Speaker 1: just kind of an optional. It seems like those are
Speaker 1: kind of in the same camp right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I joked about it. I mean,
Speaker 2: the day of the week or whatever game they just
Speaker 2: happen to complete or whatever series they happen to complete,
Speaker 2: that will tell us what their priority is. Right So,
Speaker 2: you know, for the longest time, the number one priority
Speaker 2: was get a bat, and then the offense really started
Speaker 2: scoring a lot of runs until today. You know then, oh, well,
Speaker 2: Mitch Bratt and you know Cole Drake had a couple
Speaker 2: of bad outings. Oh we need a starter right away.
Speaker 2: That's got to be number one. Then Paul Sewald and
Speaker 2: Ryan Thompson implode. Oh man, we got to shore up
Speaker 2: the bullpen. Quite frankly, it really is all of the above.
Speaker 2: I mean, they need a good starter, they need at
Speaker 2: least one good reliever, and they need a left handed bat.
Speaker 2: Those are the team weaknesses. Those are the areas that
Speaker 2: they need to improve to plug the holes in this roster.
Speaker 2: And we can see very easily that it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're not going to get all three.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe they could, I don't know, uh maybe.
Speaker 2: I mean all three to a level that we think
Speaker 2: it's gonna really plug the hole. I'm not saying they
Speaker 2: won't get a left handed better or a reliever or
Speaker 2: a starter, but I don't think they're gonna get difference
Speaker 2: makers at all three of those slots.
Speaker 1: They're not going to get mis Nathaniel Lowe and.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know Brooks Rally or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Luke Weaver or something like that. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think that's fair. That would feel a
Speaker 1: little bit unrealistic at this point. One other name I
Speaker 1: want to throw into the mix here on the starting
Speaker 1: pitching front, to name that we haven't discussed yet is
Speaker 1: Dustin May of the Saint Louis Cardinals. He's a rental
Speaker 1: starting pitcher who is expected to get dealt. The Cardinals
Speaker 1: have dropped out of the race enough that I think
Speaker 1: trading their rentals certainly makes sense for them. May is
Speaker 1: going to make twelve point five million dollars for this
Speaker 1: season as a whole, means about four million or so
Speaker 1: the rest of the way, within range for the Diamondbacks
Speaker 1: on the higher end, but still still within range where
Speaker 1: they could stay under the luxury tax and acquire him.
Speaker 1: He's an interesting He's an interesting arm. His numbers for
Speaker 1: the season don't necessarily jump off the page. His ra
Speaker 1: does start with with a four. Certainly not in the
Speaker 1: same category as Clay Holmes or as Clay Holmes or
Speaker 1: Casey miz in that regard, but a four point three
Speaker 1: eight ERA for the season and pretty decent underlying numbers.
Speaker 1: He has a three point one four FIP, one hundred
Speaker 1: and six strikeouts compared to thirty five walks, and he
Speaker 1: throws ninety seven miles an hour. That's his average four
Speaker 1: seam fastball. Certainly that would bring a different look to
Speaker 1: this Diamondbacks rotation. They don't really have anyone like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Dustin May is a tough one for me.
Speaker 2: I don't really trust him. He's a five and dive guy.
Speaker 2: You know, he very seldom goes more than five whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think he goes even six innings
Speaker 2: very often, little in seven or eight. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't trust his health. He's very injury prone. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, he's always had that tantalizing stuff. He's another
Speaker 2: guy like I think, you know, if they would just
Speaker 2: get off to snide and convert this guy to a reliever,
Speaker 2: I think he would just be just like a lights
Speaker 2: out postseason dude, you know, So I don't know. I
Speaker 2: Mean the other thing too, is we hadn't really looked
Speaker 2: very closely at almost anybody on the Cardinals roster because
Speaker 2: as until July twenty fourth, when the Dbacks had the
Speaker 2: trapes back there, they were still very much right in
Speaker 2: the race. Maybe they've kind of leaked over towards sales side.
Speaker 1: It appears that they have. It appears that that Dustin
Speaker 1: May is pretty likely to get moved. The guys who
Speaker 1: have some control left harder to say, I guess sticking
Speaker 1: with the Cardinals. Lars Newtbar is another name that certainly
Speaker 1: could make sense for the Diamondbacks. Not quite as ideal
Speaker 1: of a roster fit, because he is an outfielder instead
Speaker 1: of a first baseman, but you know, you could use
Speaker 1: the you could use the DH slot. You could move
Speaker 1: some guys around and make that work. The other name
Speaker 1: that stands out who is a first baseman is Alec Burlison,
Speaker 1: who I think would be a fantastic fit for the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 1: Left handed hitter just destroys right handed pitching, pretty similar
Speaker 1: to a Luis Garcia junior. The tricky thing with Burlison
Speaker 1: is he has two more years of control, so the
Speaker 1: price tag is going to be higher, and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure the Cardinals really want to go down that road
Speaker 1: at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I know I sound like a
Speaker 2: broken record. I'm just so hesitant to give up the
Speaker 2: prospect cost that it's going to take for control guys
Speaker 2: because I just don't have a lot of confidence that
Speaker 2: you're going to actually get all of that control because
Speaker 2: of the looming lockout and time and games lost in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven. So that that just I'm not able
Speaker 2: to square that one because I just don't believe that
Speaker 2: any player the players Union is going to agree to
Speaker 2: forego a year of service time and let everybody's uh
Speaker 2: free agency get pushed out a year. I mean, they
Speaker 2: really think of the repercussion of that. So they're just
Speaker 2: going to all of a sudden agree, Okay, everyone's going
Speaker 2: to go move out one year. All those pre free
Speaker 2: agency guys the players wanted to move any other direction.
Speaker 2: They're trying to negotiate a shortening of the time to
Speaker 2: free agency. So you know, I just see, I just
Speaker 2: see that the control guys, as much as you want them,
Speaker 2: and as much as the organ the dbacks organization insists
Speaker 2: that they're not worried about that. You know, I call
Speaker 2: a BS on that. Sorry, they're talking about it. They
Speaker 2: have to be. They can't not be talking about that internally,
Speaker 2: they just can't say anything about it publicly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair. Certainly, if the Diamondbacks were concerned about
Speaker 1: a lockout and a workstopage and whatnot, like, that's not
Speaker 1: something that the Dare Call or anyone in the organization
Speaker 1: is going to come out on a local radio program
Speaker 1: and you know, speak openly about Certainly, you wouldn't you
Speaker 1: wouldn't expect that. We have a whole lot more to
Speaker 1: get to in this episode. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the Trek Scoogle trade that yes, it did happen. He's
Speaker 1: a Dodger, big surprise. We will we will talk about
Speaker 1: that and the ramifications of that. We'll talk about the
Speaker 1: Guardians series as well. Diamondbacks get a series win even
Speaker 1: though this Sunday game was not great and there was
Speaker 1: a weird benches clearing incident that we'll get into as well.
Speaker 1: And we've got a whole lot more trade stuff to
Speaker 1: talk about as well, So don't go anywhere. We'll be
Speaker 1: back right after this. Note from foul Territory, which you
Speaker 1: should be watching tomorrow.
Speaker 4: There is one place to be on trade deadline day
Speaker 4: watching foul Territory of course A J. Perdinski, Eric Kratz,
Speaker 4: and Scott Brown will be live all afternoon speaking with insiders,
Speaker 4: reading tea leaves, and reacting to unfolding deadline drama. Join
Speaker 4: us on the FTU Tube channel at one pm ET
Speaker 4: and stay locked in through the six pm deadline next Monday.
Speaker 4: Foul Territory Network, It's baseball the way it should be covered.
Speaker 1: We are back here on Snake's Territory. We really appreciate
Speaker 1: all of you being here with us. If you haven't already,
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Speaker 1: thank you to all of you for being here with us,
Speaker 1: for doing all those things. We really appreciate it. And
Speaker 1: we have a super chat. We'll go ahead and dive
Speaker 1: into ten dollars from our pal the ur gyros speed us.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. They say, what is the ideal
Speaker 1: news to wake up to tomorrow? As a Dbacks fan?
Speaker 1: Love the show? Thanks guys, we appreciate it as always. Jack,
Speaker 1: what do you think, what do you think would be
Speaker 1: the ideal news to wake up to on Monday morning?
Speaker 2: Well, if we're waking up to it on Monday morning,
Speaker 2: that means it probably happened very late tonight after we
Speaker 2: all go to bed. So you know, I would say
Speaker 2: I would like to see them still shore up the pitching.
Speaker 2: I believe that that's got to be the number one priority. Yes,
Speaker 2: they need a bat, but if they can only do one,
Speaker 2: if we have a Sophie's choice, then they've got to
Speaker 2: shore up the pitching. I mean, Corbyn Carrol and Heraldo
Speaker 2: Podomo and kateel Marte haven't hit anywhere near their projections
Speaker 2: or their potential this year, and so you just have
Speaker 2: to hope that those guys come around because the rest
Speaker 2: of the team is kind of doing their job, and
Speaker 2: it's those three guys underperforming what they're expected to do
Speaker 2: by so much that that's what causes the inconsistency in
Speaker 2: the offense. So, you know, there's still two months to go,
Speaker 2: there's no reason to think that there it's impossible for
Speaker 2: any of you know, at least two of those three
Speaker 2: guys to kind of get it going. So I think
Speaker 2: that the offense has a greater chance to take care
Speaker 2: of itself. But the pitching, the bullpen's getting frayed, they're
Speaker 2: getting tired, we've got injuries. In a rotation, I think
Speaker 2: the I think the rotation has to be the number one.
Speaker 2: If you can only do one, that's I want to
Speaker 2: see rotation in bullpen. I want to see a starter
Speaker 2: and a reliever. And I say only one. I mean,
Speaker 2: sure up the pitching.
Speaker 1: I think. Just to add more specifics to that, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think if you wake up tomorrow and Casey Mice
Speaker 1: is an Arizona Diamondback, I mean that would be pretty compelling,
Speaker 1: like Casey miz Frankly, when we started our trade trade
Speaker 1: deadline discussions, I wasn't really thinking much about Casey Mice
Speaker 1: because number one, I didn't really think the Tigers were
Speaker 1: going to trade him, and they still might not. Well see,
Speaker 1: but number two, he's been really good this season, and
Speaker 1: you figure that the price tag there is not going
Speaker 1: to be is not going to be very nice with
Speaker 1: all of these teams that are still in the market
Speaker 1: for starting pitching this season, in sixteen starts, eighty six
Speaker 1: and two thirds innings. Mayes has a two point seven
Speaker 1: zero ERA, a two point five eight FIP. His whip
Speaker 1: is zero point nine to nine eighty five strikeouts to
Speaker 1: just nineteen walks. I mean, this isn't just a boost
Speaker 1: for your rotation. This is maybe the best starting pitcher
Speaker 1: that Diamondbacks would have. I mean, I know Erod has
Speaker 1: been awesome this year, and he would be in that
Speaker 1: conversation as well, but Erod's underlying numbers are not don't
Speaker 1: compare to where Casey Mizes are right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: it looks like this could be sustainable for him, and
Speaker 1: if you're a Diamondbacks fanit it's hard to imagine anything better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And look, I mean the other piece here too
Speaker 2: is I am here. We know that Justin Martinez is
Speaker 2: coming back sometime in August, maybe a little slower than
Speaker 2: we were hoping, but I'm not sure about that, we're all.
Speaker 2: I'm also hearing that it seems to really be leaning
Speaker 2: towards Ryan Nelson if he comes back in September, is
Speaker 2: coming back as a reliever, so they have reinforcements that
Speaker 2: way as well in the bullpen. So I mean, clearly
Speaker 2: a starter like Myz is going to have a greater
Speaker 2: impact than any reliever. One thing I wanted to just
Speaker 2: kind of add in here, Guys, I time after time,
Speaker 2: like whether it's a trade deadline or whether it's during
Speaker 2: the off season, where it's looked like or felt like
Speaker 2: the moves are happening too slow, and why aren't they
Speaker 2: doing anything? And you know what's Mike hasen doing is
Speaker 2: even working. I can tell you this without question that
Speaker 2: they are working their tails off. They are working the phones,
Speaker 2: they are doing everything they possibly can. They're not just
Speaker 2: sitting back sip and tee, you know, hoping that a
Speaker 2: good deal falls in your lap. These guys are busting it.
Speaker 2: They're not sleeping. They're doing everything they can. But as
Speaker 2: Mike said, he doesn't get to control when the words
Speaker 2: yes get spoken because he doesn't control the players, so
Speaker 2: he can't control the timing. The other thing is is
Speaker 2: we've seen for example, in twenty nineteen, I was in
Speaker 2: the Yankee Stadium and covering the team and the Jazz
Speaker 2: chishom Zach Gallendale went down and we even had a
Speaker 2: you know, like I don't know it was early in
Speaker 2: the afternoon or just as game was starting. We spoke
Speaker 2: to Mike on the conference call, and then I'm sitting
Speaker 2: there writing my story about what's going on with that trade,
Speaker 2: and fifteen minutes before the deadline, just after Zach Gallon
Speaker 2: Zach Grinky had finished his outing boom, he was traded
Speaker 2: with less and fifteen minutes to go before the trade deadline.
Speaker 2: So I'm not gonna criticize anything that they're doing or
Speaker 2: not doing until the trade deadline has come and gone.
Speaker 2: You have to wait and see all of it.
Speaker 1: I think the Granky trade is a good one to
Speaker 1: bring up here, because that was a deal that, if
Speaker 1: memory serves, Jacket came together because the Astros were willing
Speaker 1: to add in a piece that they weren't before, and
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks had basically said, I want to say it
Speaker 1: was Josh Rojas. I need to double check that, but
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the story there was that the Astros
Speaker 1: were unwilling to give up Josh Rojas in that trade,
Speaker 1: and then in the final minutes leading up to the deadline,
Speaker 1: they were like, all right, here it is, and that's
Speaker 1: why the deal got over the finish line. I think
Speaker 1: that sort of thing happens a lot, especially with a deadline,
Speaker 1: like with an actual time where you like if you
Speaker 1: don't get the deal done before then it cannot happen.
Speaker 1: That just naturally causes teams to be willing to push
Speaker 1: the chips in in a way that maybe they're not
Speaker 1: going to do a day or two out. So even
Speaker 1: going back to Nathaniel Low, like, maybe it is that
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks and Reds aren't matching up there. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: that the Reds have set a certain price and the
Speaker 1: Diamondbacks as of right now are saying we don't want
Speaker 1: to do that. They're still looking around. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that in you know, twenty thirty minutes leading up
Speaker 1: to the deadline, Mike Kasen doesn't just turn around and say, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what we are willing to do that we
Speaker 1: didn't find anything else better on the market. So I
Speaker 1: really wouldn't worry too much about the timing of these things.
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of the Diamondbacks getting what they
Speaker 1: need to between now and three pm tomorrow. And that's
Speaker 1: a starting pitcher, it's a left handed bat, and the
Speaker 1: icing on the cake if they could do it would
Speaker 1: be to at a reliever as well.
Speaker 2: Right by the way, when looking at relievers, I mean
Speaker 2: the one thing that I talked about in an article
Speaker 2: I wrote over on SI was they need a left
Speaker 2: handed reliever because they need to free up Randon Garcia
Speaker 2: to work the ninth inning as often as possible, right,
Speaker 2: And if you get a good left handed reliever, then
Speaker 2: that kind of frees up a lane and Tory doesn't
Speaker 2: have to worry about the matchups so much because I think,
Speaker 2: you know, Isaaca is fine, wa Mario is fine. But
Speaker 2: I think right now, at this point in time, everyone
Speaker 2: almost in this chat and on this podcast would agree
Speaker 2: that they trust Brandon Garcia more than the other reliever
Speaker 2: in empule Pen.
Speaker 1: Ddly enough, well, it's not gonna be aj Minter. The
Speaker 1: Twins got aj Minter from the Mets. That news came
Speaker 1: out last night. But there are still some left handed
Speaker 1: relievers out there. I know Brooks Raley of the Mets
Speaker 1: is one that you've talked about. Jojo Romero of the
Speaker 1: Cardinals probably gonna get Dealt as well, So there are
Speaker 1: still some options in that regard. I guess the starting
Speaker 1: pitching discussion, like what it ultimately comes back to, the
Speaker 1: reason we think the Dbacks need a starter is because
Speaker 1: they have Mitch Bratt and Cold Drake and their rotation
Speaker 1: as of right now, and that leads us Jack into
Speaker 1: a conversation about this weekend series against the Cleveland Guardians. Ironically,
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks won the two games with Mitch Bratt and
Speaker 1: Cold Drake starting, and then they did not win the
Speaker 1: game with Merrill Kelly on the mound. I guess to
Speaker 1: start this off, I'm curious, do you think the Diamondbacks
Speaker 1: need for a starting pitcher, Like, did it increase or
Speaker 1: decrease in your mind over the weekend or did it
Speaker 1: stay about the same. We had talked about how big
Speaker 1: of a kind of litmus test this was for Drake
Speaker 1: and for Bratt going in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it gave him some breathing room. Obviously,
Speaker 2: if both of them got blown up and pitched horrible games,
Speaker 2: then I think that would increase the sense of urgency.
Speaker 2: But it gave them just a little bit of breathing
Speaker 2: room to maybe get through this next period of time
Speaker 2: and allowed Hazen to kind of keep a cool head
Speaker 2: about it and not you know, push push all the
Speaker 2: chips in too early, because these guys aren't able to
Speaker 2: you know, compete at the major league level. They obviously
Speaker 2: they can compete by the way the Diamondbacks are three
Speaker 2: and two and Mitch Bratt starts in two and one
Speaker 2: and Cole Drake starts, so they're five and three. When
Speaker 2: those two guys start, they're zero and four and Jose
Speaker 2: Cavera starts. So take that for what you will. Obviously
Speaker 2: that has to do also with bullpen work and run
Speaker 2: support and all those good things. That's not just what
Speaker 2: they've done. They're only going four or five innings. But
Speaker 2: the fact is is that they were pretty good this weekend.
Speaker 2: Good enough I should say, you know, I don't want
Speaker 2: to stretch it too far. I would just say good
Speaker 2: enough this weekend to put the team in a position
Speaker 2: to win. They didn't give up the runs. They competed,
Speaker 2: They stayed in, stayed in the innings, you know, and
Speaker 2: didn't give up the big crooked numbers like Merrill did today.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Unfortunately, Merrill Kelly not great in the series finale.
Speaker 1: Five innings, eight hits, five runs, four walks, five strikeouts.
Speaker 1: He sort of pitched out of trouble a little bit
Speaker 1: and the third inning managed to escape a jam there,
Speaker 1: only giving up two runs. But then the fifth inning
Speaker 1: was ugly for him, started with a four pitch walk
Speaker 1: to Stephen Kwan and just kind of spiraled out of
Speaker 1: control from there. Merrill threw just thirty six percent of
Speaker 1: his pitches in the zone in that Sunday game. And
Speaker 1: that's just the number I keep going back to over
Speaker 1: and over again. With Merrill Kelly. It just has to
Speaker 1: be higher. I mean, thirty six percent is extremely low.
Speaker 1: I know, he was really trying to work off of
Speaker 1: his off speed stuff in the game. It seemed like
Speaker 1: he didn't want to give in and throw fastballs. But
Speaker 1: you just got to hit the zone more often than that,
Speaker 1: and you know, four walks like this version of Mary
Speaker 1: Kelly just isn't isn't going to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that fifth inning, I mean, let's just
Speaker 2: call it what it was. It sucked because you know,
Speaker 2: there was coming down hard the rain. He was having
Speaker 2: a hard time gripping the ball. You saw some of
Speaker 2: the you know, pitches that he threw just like kind
Speaker 2: of flying out of his hand armside and you know,
Speaker 2: going up over over the umpire's shoulder and to the backstop.
Speaker 2: There were a couple of those. You know, just the
Speaker 2: conditions really got him at that point. She made it
Speaker 2: really difficult, and you know, I just hope nobody got
Speaker 2: hurt throwing the ball in those conditions at this point.
Speaker 2: I mean the other thing too, is, look, Gavin Williams
Speaker 2: had no hit stuff, you know, was perfect through five,
Speaker 2: and you know they weren't going to really touch him today.
Speaker 2: I mean that's just the way that was. Yes, they
Speaker 2: put a few base runners on finally against him in
Speaker 2: the sixth inning, but you know, Gavin Williams is really, really,
Speaker 2: really good, and he was at the top of his game.
Speaker 2: He's a picture in the middle of a hot streak.
Speaker 2: He was at the top of his game. They weren't
Speaker 2: going to touch him at all today. I mean, really,
Speaker 2: they didn't need any more runs after the first.
Speaker 1: Two, that is true, but they did try to get
Speaker 1: a base hit against Gavin Williams. Jack and Tim Tawa
Speaker 1: was willing to do whatever it took to make it happen.
Speaker 1: Twa in an one count to start the sixth inning,
Speaker 1: after Gavin Williams had thrown five perfect innings, Tala attempts
Speaker 1: to lay down a bunch. It was not successful, it
Speaker 1: went foul, but it was just the attempt that got
Speaker 1: a noticeable reaction from Patrick Bailey behind home played Brian
Speaker 1: Rochio as well the Guardian short stop. They were not
Speaker 1: happy about it, this whole unwritten rule situation. If a
Speaker 1: guy's throwing a no hitter a perfect game, you don't
Speaker 1: try to break it up with a bunt. I personally
Speaker 1: think that's dumb and Diamondbacks and any team should be
Speaker 1: free to do whatever they want in that situation. I mean,
Speaker 1: we see bunts used often as a way to jump
Speaker 1: start the offense, and I don't think this is a
Speaker 1: gimmicky like, oh, Tim Tawa is just trying to break
Speaker 1: up the perfect game. He's not trying to win. I
Speaker 1: think he was trying to like do what was best
Speaker 1: for the Diamondbacks there. And Tory Lavello talked about this
Speaker 1: after the game. His view was like, over the first
Speaker 1: six innings, you can do whatever you want. Anything is
Speaker 1: on the table in a no hit or perfect game situation.
Speaker 1: Tory did acknowledge, like the last few innings of a game,
Speaker 1: maybe it wouldn't be cool to do that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: But I think it's all dumb Jack. I think the
Speaker 1: fact that we saw the benches clear when the rain
Speaker 1: delay started, I thought that was dumb. And I don't
Speaker 1: know these unwritten rules of baseball. Sometimes they're just a
Speaker 1: head scratcher for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know who said what to who, but
Speaker 2: Steven Vote said that it wasn't the fact that he
Speaker 2: tried to bunt that got him upset, it was something
Speaker 2: that was being said into his dugout. So I don't
Speaker 2: know who said what into his dugout, but it sound
Speaker 2: looked like to me they were probably pushing back on
Speaker 2: all the chirpin and yelling at Tim Tower that he
Speaker 2: was getting. So I think that, you know, look, some
Speaker 2: of their players reacted or overreacted, as you mentioned Patrick
Speaker 2: Belly Rokio. They overreacted to that situation, I think, and
Speaker 2: there were guys chirping at Tim Tower, and I think
Speaker 2: that ultimately what happened there was that people started chirping
Speaker 2: back at the Guardians dugout, and that's what got you know,
Speaker 2: something was said into the Guardians dugout that bothered Stephen Vote,
Speaker 2: and that's why that's what he came out to address.
Speaker 2: So later when him and Tory met at home Plate,
Speaker 2: you know, they had a conversation. Tory joked that Tim
Speaker 2: Hill of MLB has mentored him to not escalate things,
Speaker 2: and that's what Tory went out to do was to
Speaker 2: de escalate, and him and Vote did exactly that and
Speaker 2: had their conversation that third base coach Odor I don't
Speaker 2: know what his deal was. He was like hopping around.
Speaker 2: He was not acting like a coach. He was acting
Speaker 2: like a hot headed player, and I don't know what
Speaker 2: his deal was. I'd love to have heard a quote
Speaker 2: from or about him and what he was doing, but
Speaker 2: I haven't seen anything on that.
Speaker 1: Of course, Tim Tawa wound up singling anyway, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't on a bunt. It was just on a line
Speaker 1: drive to right field, So the whole thing a little
Speaker 1: anti climactic. When all was said and done, Diamondbacks lose
Speaker 1: the game five to nothing. They managed just two hits
Speaker 1: throughout the game. But all in all, Dbachs finished this
Speaker 1: ten game road trip, this monster of a ten game
Speaker 1: road trip, six and four. They still won the series
Speaker 1: against the Guardians, taking two out of three there. And
Speaker 1: as you said, Gavin Williams is just an awesome pitcher.
Speaker 1: I think he entered with forty five strikeout in his
Speaker 1: last four starts, which is outrageous. He was averaging like
Speaker 1: eleven strikeouts per start over his past few outings, So
Speaker 1: you know, this is just one of those situations where
Speaker 1: you kind of get got by one of the best
Speaker 1: starters in baseball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he only walked a couple of
Speaker 2: guys in those four starts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unreal.
Speaker 2: Hey, six and four road trip, you won the series.
Speaker 2: You got out of there with that horrible rain delay
Speaker 2: and poor field conditions. You know, it looks like everyone's fine,
Speaker 2: nobody got hurt. You come back home, you know, and
Speaker 2: you got to get ready for a tough series, four
Speaker 2: game series against the Padres. And we'll have to see
Speaker 2: who's pitching in that series for the Padres.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tried. That's actually kind of funny you say that.
Speaker 1: I tried pulling from Ross to resource the starting pitchers
Speaker 1: for that series, and it lists Harmon Marquez twice. They
Speaker 1: have Harmon Marquez is the opener for Tuesday's game and
Speaker 1: then is the starter for Wednesday's game. So we all
Speaker 1: we really know is that Michael King is starting on Monday,
Speaker 1: and then after that it's sort of anybody's guests. Maybe
Speaker 1: we see a pitcher that the Padres acquire before the
Speaker 1: trade deadline. On the diamondback side, it lines up to
Speaker 1: be Brandon fought on Monday, Eduardo Rodriguez Tuesday, and then
Speaker 1: Mitch Bratt and Cole Drake starting the final two games
Speaker 1: of that series. As far as the standings go, the
Speaker 1: Padres have certainly been on a nice run here. San
Speaker 1: Diego enters fifty eight and fifty four. They have won
Speaker 1: eight of their last nine games. They just finished a
Speaker 1: series win against the San Francisco Giants, they took three
Speaker 1: out of four there, and the Miami Marlins have also
Speaker 1: kind of bounced back here. They have won six out
Speaker 1: of seven games since snapping their twelve game losing streak.
Speaker 1: So the Marlins are a game and a half out
Speaker 1: right now. The Padres are just one game out entering
Speaker 1: the series Pirates, Cardinals, Nationals. All of those teams have
Speaker 1: struggled recently. Pirates now three and a half out, Cardinals four,
Speaker 1: Nationals four and a half games out, and the Diamondbacks
Speaker 1: and Phillies are tied as of right now at fifty
Speaker 1: nine and fifty three, both those teams in the playoff
Speaker 1: picture as of now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, it's just kind of funny
Speaker 2: how the Marlins just don't go away, right, And I
Speaker 2: don't really know what's going to happen there with you know, players,
Speaker 2: am I trade? I was also thinking about the Nationals.
Speaker 2: I mean, like they were not that far out of it, right,
Speaker 2: They're pretty close, and all of a sudden they trade
Speaker 2: Mead and now they trade Garcia, and I wonder what's
Speaker 2: going on in that clubhouse, because, like, you know, the
Speaker 2: pictures they brought in aren't like going to plug in
Speaker 2: and help drive them to the postseason, right. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know they got early, but he's still on the
Speaker 2: injured list, I believe, and you know, they brought in
Speaker 2: some believers and minor league pitching prospect and I kind
Speaker 2: of think, like the guys in the clubhouse there must
Speaker 2: be like, wait a minute, we fought our asses off
Speaker 2: to get close here, and we're in this race. Why
Speaker 2: didn't you go out and get a picture for us.
Speaker 2: Instead you took away like forty home runs off our offense.
Speaker 2: So I just so it's a random thought I had
Speaker 2: about that when I look at the standings and thinking
Speaker 2: about what they must be thinking in the clubhouse in Washington.
Speaker 1: It's not the move that Mike hasn would have made.
Speaker 1: I feel pretty confident saying that Mike Hasn has developed
Speaker 1: a reputation at this point. He's one of the more
Speaker 1: aggressive general managers in the sport. And with the Diamondbacks
Speaker 1: and the position that they're in, you figure there's there's
Speaker 1: got to be at least one move coming for the
Speaker 1: Dbacks here in the next to nineteen hours and nineteen
Speaker 1: minutes or so. Diamondbacks, though, Yeah, successful road trip, certainly
Speaker 1: hard to be upset there about a six and four record.
Speaker 1: What people might be upset about, though, is the fact
Speaker 1: that the Los Angeles Dodgers just tweeted this about an
Speaker 1: hour ago, and it says Terrek has arrived, and it
Speaker 1: is a picture of Tarrek's scouble wearing a Dodgers hoodie,
Speaker 1: and this is now a thing. Trek Scoobel is a
Speaker 1: member of the Los Angeles Dodgers. The package to acquire
Speaker 1: him was I'm not gonna say it was light, but
Speaker 1: it was maybe lighter than what the industry expected. The
Speaker 1: deal was for three players outfield prospects, your hope, right
Speaker 1: handed pitcher River Ryan, and then right handed pitcher Brady Smith.
Speaker 1: So your Hope is one of the better outfield prospects
Speaker 1: in baseball, but he's also one of like four hundred
Speaker 1: outfield prospects that the Dodgers have, and it feels like
Speaker 1: that loss. I don't want to say it's irrelevant to them,
Speaker 1: but certainly not something that they're going to be losing
Speaker 1: sleepover with Tarrek Scoobel in their rotation. Now, the other
Speaker 1: big piece there was River Ryan, right handed pitcher, who
Speaker 1: made four starts two years ago that were good in
Speaker 1: the majors. Those are the only four starts he's made
Speaker 1: at the big league level. He struggled with injuries. He
Speaker 1: somehow is still ranked pretty highly on prospect lists even
Speaker 1: though he is twenty seven years old and is only
Speaker 1: like a couple of years younger than Derek Skougel himself.
Speaker 2: How is the twenty seven year old still in a
Speaker 2: prospect list. I don't get it. I mean, my old
Speaker 2: way of thinking was you're older in twenty five year
Speaker 2: off the list.
Speaker 1: It feels people are, of course hypothesizing that if River
Speaker 1: Ryan played for any team but the Dodgers, he would
Speaker 1: not be on these prospect lists. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I fully buy into that, but I think there may
Speaker 1: be there's something there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, you know the question here, we don't
Speaker 2: know did the Tigers want somebody else and the Dodgers
Speaker 2: told them to pound sand Or were those the guys
Speaker 2: that the Tigers really wanted. I mean, you know, we
Speaker 2: were not inside their heads. Maybe they just love Zaier
Speaker 2: Hope and they see, you know, a future multi All
Speaker 2: star in him. I mean, there's always that potential element.
Speaker 2: You can't always just go buy these prospect rankings when
Speaker 2: we're looking at these things. That being said, you know,
Speaker 2: the industry consenses is that the package is a little
Speaker 2: bit light. But it's not. It's not so much the package,
Speaker 2: it's just the fact that that's sticking in everybody's craw
Speaker 2: And it's kind of a little funny to me. My
Speaker 2: good friend and coworker, Alex Stagostino. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: we've known and talked about this over and over again.
Speaker 2: Trek School is going to be a Dodger. There is
Speaker 2: like no question that he was going to be a Dodger.
Speaker 2: And it's just the visceral reaction to it actually happening
Speaker 2: and how this is now suddenly the trigger point that's
Speaker 2: going to cause the lockout. I got to be honest,
Speaker 2: I find it a little bit of musing. Yes, there's
Speaker 2: going to be a lockout one hundred percent going to
Speaker 2: be a lockout. It's not happening because Trek school is
Speaker 2: going to the Dodgers. It sucks that Trek Schools going
Speaker 2: to the Dodgers, sucks for us, sucks for the rest
Speaker 2: of the National League, But that's not the reason is
Speaker 2: going to be a lockout. So you know, I think
Speaker 2: that it's it's a good chance for us to kind
Speaker 2: of step back and let's like really discuss what's going
Speaker 2: on here. So Jesse and I are going to kind
Speaker 2: of hash this out a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think to reiterate your point, like there was
Speaker 1: already a one hundred percent chance of there being a
Speaker 1: lockout at the end like in December, right, I mean
Speaker 1: we already knew that. Could this have an impact on
Speaker 1: like how many games are missed potentially next season? I
Speaker 1: guess you could make that case. I don't really think
Speaker 1: it does. As you said, we already kind of thought
Speaker 1: that Trek Scoople was going to the Dodgers, and so
Speaker 1: this is just you know, the manifestation of that, as
Speaker 1: painful as it as it could still be. But yeah,
Speaker 1: when it comes to the larger conversation here, Jack, of course,
Speaker 1: people are are looking at the Dodgers and the fact
Speaker 1: that if you include their luxury tax bill, I think
Speaker 1: they're going to spend six hundred and ten million dollars
Speaker 1: on this roster this season compared to I mean, heck,
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks are going out there and spending more than
Speaker 1: most teams relative to their revenue, and they're spending significantly
Speaker 1: less than half of that on their roster in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six, and they're showing some hesitation to go into
Speaker 1: the competitive balanced tax at all. So yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: really think that this move changes the calculus much, but
Speaker 1: I do think that it is just going to embolden
Speaker 1: the people who were planning to fight for a salary cap.
Speaker 1: This is just kind of another feather in their cap,
Speaker 1: another thing that they can point to and say, look,
Speaker 1: Trek Skoubel is a Dodger. They're trading away prospects that
Speaker 1: frankly they I don't think they're really losing sleep over
Speaker 1: any of these guys, and the endless resources that they
Speaker 1: seemingly have are kind of the reason that's happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you could, could you pull up Bob's comment
Speaker 2: from his Sunday note, So, Bob, I happen to know
Speaker 2: Bob pretty well. He didn't write this this Sunday morning
Speaker 2: after the Stoogle deal, And you know, he definitely wrote
Speaker 2: this most of his notes on Friday and Saturday. That's
Speaker 2: what he does. He compiles it and puts it together.
Speaker 2: But what Bob said in his notes, it's nearly impossible
Speaker 2: to find an owner these days who doesn't believe there
Speaker 2: will be a prolonged work stoppage in twenty twenty seven
Speaker 2: that will shorten the season, with several believing the entire
Speaker 2: season could be wiped out. When one owner was asked
Speaker 2: the chances of even playing next season, he responded maybe
Speaker 2: twenty five percent, no higher. So Jeff Passen recently said
Speaker 2: something very similar that he had spoken to a number
Speaker 2: of owners that are absolutely convinced that the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: seven season is not going to get played. So, yes,
Speaker 2: I'm pausing for effect here, guys. I mean, I want
Speaker 2: everybody to think about this. Be careful what you wish for,
Speaker 2: Be careful what you wish for, because our sport is
Speaker 2: not going to survive in the same form at all
Speaker 2: as far as popularity and importance on the American scene.
Speaker 2: If we miss the entire twenty twenty seven season. And
Speaker 2: I don't know that the right thing or the wrong
Speaker 2: thing is to have a salary cap or not. I
Speaker 2: think that before we talk about the payroll disparity, we
Speaker 2: need to talk about the revenue disparity. It's the revenue
Speaker 2: disparity that's the root cause of the payroll disparity, right,
Speaker 2: So I'm more focused on revenue disparity and how to
Speaker 2: close that gap. And then if you can close the
Speaker 2: gap on revenue disparity, then you can use any number
Speaker 2: of mechanisms to then create more parody when it comes
Speaker 2: to payroll and competitiveness on the field. Okay, but unless
Speaker 2: you're willing and able to address the revenue disparity, you're
Speaker 2: not going to get there. What Major League Baseball wants
Speaker 2: to do, and the reason they set up this cap
Speaker 2: and by the way, the cap number that they have
Speaker 2: is ridiculously low, ridiculously low. It's like two hundred and
Speaker 2: forty five million dollars that they proposed. And by the
Speaker 2: time you take out the seventeen million for benefits and
Speaker 2: one point seven million for the incentive funds basically player benefits,
Speaker 2: it's really two hundred and twenty six million dollars cap subserved,
Speaker 2: same thing with their floor of one seventy two, it's
Speaker 2: really like one fifty five. So you know, these numbers
Speaker 2: aren't workable. What the cap is about is for Major
Speaker 2: League Baseball to make more money. And if you have
Speaker 2: any doubt that this is about major League Baseball taking
Speaker 2: more of the money, Occam's raise gang. The only reason
Speaker 2: they're willing to lose or willing to risk losing all
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty seven is because they're going to come
Speaker 2: out so much further ahead financially by capping player salary.
Speaker 2: So in my mind, either you're going to have to
Speaker 2: increase that cap and floor, but share the revenue properly. Now,
Speaker 2: how you get the revenue shared, There's a lot of
Speaker 2: different ways to go about that. But until they address that,
Speaker 2: there isn't going to be any compromise. We are going
Speaker 2: to lose twenty twenty seven and our sport's never going
Speaker 2: to recover.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that the Dodgers being able
Speaker 1: to do this is not just a function of their money,
Speaker 1: and that's something that we should that we should mention, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, the Dodgers are trading away players in this deal,
Speaker 1: and other teams could have theoretically matched this offer, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, Treek School is going to make about ten
Speaker 1: million dollars the rest of the season. That's not a
Speaker 1: prohibitive amount of money. It's not like the Dodgers are
Speaker 1: the only team that could do that. At the same time,
Speaker 1: the fact that the Dodgers can go out there and
Speaker 1: you know, give Kyle Tucker sixty million dollars to be
Speaker 1: a league average player and not really worry about it,
Speaker 1: Like they've just built so much depth on their roster
Speaker 1: and in their organization that the need for them to
Speaker 1: get something out of zayre Hope or to get something
Speaker 1: out of River Ryan is just not the same as
Speaker 1: it is for other teams. And so for anyone out
Speaker 1: there saying like, oh, any other team could have done this,
Speaker 1: I think that's an oversimplification there. There is an issue here,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it has to do with a
Speaker 1: TV revenue. The fact that the Dodgers TV deal is
Speaker 1: is I think it's three hundred million dollars a season
Speaker 1: something like that, thirty something, three point thirty something. And yeah,
Speaker 1: the other teams around the League of Diamondbacks certainly aren't
Speaker 1: anywhere close to that after the issues that they've had
Speaker 1: on the TV side here over the past few years.
Speaker 1: So that is a revenue disparity that does not seem
Speaker 1: to make sense, Like do the Dodgers deserve to make
Speaker 1: that much more from TV than other teams just because
Speaker 1: they're in a bigger market. That's when you're getting into
Speaker 1: like market size is having an enormous, enormous impact on revenue,
Speaker 1: and I think that that's where MLB can step in
Speaker 1: and try to level the playing field.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the TV contract, by the way, and I see
Speaker 2: some comments here, so let me help clarify this as well. Yes,
Speaker 2: back in twenty eleven, the Dodgers under frankmin Court went
Speaker 2: into bankruptcy. When they came out when when they're coming
Speaker 2: going through that process and came out of bankruptcy court,
Speaker 2: the bankruptcy judge determined at that time their television contract
Speaker 2: was valued at eighty five million dollars and they put
Speaker 2: in an escalator I think of three or four percent
Speaker 2: per year and though that money's tax just like the
Speaker 2: Yankees eight now for example, they have I think a
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty seven million dollar television contract in
Speaker 2: their tax to twenty percent. It goes into a central pool.
Speaker 2: So the bankruptcy court was the one that determined the
Speaker 2: size of the amount that MLB could use to determine
Speaker 2: their tax. The reason they did that at the time,
Speaker 2: why the judge stepped in and determined that number is
Speaker 2: because they were worried about MLB understating what that number was.
Speaker 2: What happened subsequently was after they came out of bankruptcy,
Speaker 2: they got a new television deal and they're making like
Speaker 2: three hundred and thirty million dollars on it. But the
Speaker 2: amount that the judge determined this was from the judge.
Speaker 2: This isn't the Dodgers cheating or taking advantage. This is
Speaker 2: what the judge determined was at eighty five with escalator
Speaker 2: three or four percent per year. That goes until twenty
Speaker 2: thirty nine. So when you do the math awesome math online,
Speaker 2: I think it works out to an extra sixty something
Speaker 2: million that they're pocketing because of their television deal. That
Speaker 2: if that had never been put in place by the
Speaker 2: judge in that manner and they were being taxed on
Speaker 2: a full amount now, it would probably be sixty something
Speaker 2: million dollars more going into the central pool that gets
Speaker 2: then divided by the clubs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a mess. I mean, it's clearly
Speaker 1: something that I think it's an issue that even the
Speaker 1: players Union could maybe get behind. And it feels like
Speaker 1: that's where we're maybe headed with the CBA negotiations. Is
Speaker 1: is there a way, as you're saying, to balance out
Speaker 1: the revenue disparity around the league, even without having an
Speaker 1: actual salary cap to to kind of enforce that. So
Speaker 1: I definitely knew that this was going to have happen.
Speaker 1: If the Dodgers got Scooble, it was inevitable that all
Speaker 1: of these discussions were going to happen all over again.
Speaker 1: I know you mentioned earlier, Jack, that baseball would have
Speaker 1: a hard time recovering in twenty twenty seven if that
Speaker 1: we actually were to have an entire season missed. And
Speaker 1: you made this lovely attendance graphic from going back to
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety showing MLB attendance per game on a year
Speaker 1: by year basis, and you can see here Jack, you've
Speaker 1: kind of pointed it out to us that if you
Speaker 1: compare nineteen ninety four to the seasons immediately after it,
Speaker 1: it took a while for attendance to bounce back.
Speaker 2: Up, right, So there's a few things I want to
Speaker 2: point out here. Number one, attendances and everything, right, Attendance
Speaker 2: and gate receips back in the early nineties and middle
Speaker 2: nineties were a higher percentage of teams overall revenue than
Speaker 2: they are today. However, the point I'm trying to make
Speaker 2: here with this little chart is in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 2: when the strike happened, teams were averaging just over thirty
Speaker 2: one thousand, four hundred fans attendance per game. There's a
Speaker 2: big myth out there that it all recovered, when you know,
Speaker 2: cal Ripken came back and Mark maguire and Samussa had
Speaker 2: the home run race. But actually, if you look at
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six and you look at nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 2: they did not recover back to the same levels of attendance.
Speaker 2: There were at least two thousand, three thousand fans less
Speaker 2: per game on average. They didn't get back to what
Speaker 2: they had until two thousand and five, eleven years later.
Speaker 2: And actually the peak in the last since nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: and in the last thirty five years was two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven. Then, of course you had the pandemic. This
Speaker 2: chart actually doesn't even include of course twenty twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one or twenty two, because all three of those years
Speaker 2: were impacted by the pandemic. I don't pick it up
Speaker 2: again until twenty three, and then you can see out
Speaker 2: there to the right in twenty twenty six. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just over at twenty nine thousand, four hundred, so
Speaker 2: you can see that attendance actually never even got back
Speaker 2: to what it was in two thousand and seven and
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four. So that's the first part. The
Speaker 2: second part is the number of fans. The number of
Speaker 2: people in the country that have baseball as their favorite
Speaker 2: sport to watch has dropped. My good friend Jim McLennan
Speaker 2: over at Asy Snake Pit had found some information on
Speaker 2: this and you could see it drop from like fourteen
Speaker 2: percent down to nine percent over about a ten year period.
Speaker 2: The data stopped in twenty twenty three. But this is
Speaker 2: nineteen This is not nineteen ninety four. This is twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six. Between streaming, online, internet, all the different sports options,
Speaker 2: people are going to walk away. You know, look, I
Speaker 2: may walk away if they lose me. They're going to
Speaker 2: lose a lot of people. And so when I talk
Speaker 2: about to be careful what you wish for. I'm going
Speaker 2: to really show my age here. If any of you
Speaker 2: seen the movie Gone with the Wind. Has anybody actually
Speaker 2: watched that movie? Remember at the beginning of the movie
Speaker 2: when all the young men were so gung ho and
Speaker 2: eager to go off to war? How did that work
Speaker 2: out for them? So, you know, my point here is
Speaker 2: I see memes, you know, lockout now and all of that.
Speaker 2: That's not going to solve the problem. We're probably going
Speaker 2: to end up with a lockout, miss a lot of games,
Speaker 2: and still not have a salary cap. That's my prediction.
Speaker 2: We'll never going to have a salary cap, but we
Speaker 2: are going to miss a lot of games. So I
Speaker 2: think that I really hope that koulaads prevailed all the
Speaker 2: way around and that they figure out a way to
Speaker 2: address the revenue sharing because if Major League Baseball continues
Speaker 2: to insist to ram through a salary cap or attempt
Speaker 2: to ram through a salary cap, it's just going to
Speaker 2: be a disaster.
Speaker 1: One thing I'll add on some of the owners making
Speaker 1: these comments about you know, I don't think there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a season there. You know, there's a twenty five
Speaker 1: percent chance the next year gets played. I will just
Speaker 1: say it is in the owner's best interest to talk
Speaker 1: in that way, whether they actually think that or not. Right,
Speaker 1: you want the union to think that you're very serious
Speaker 1: about getting a salary cap, no matter what it takes.
Speaker 1: At this point, it does you no good if you're
Speaker 1: an owner and you come out and say, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna have a season next year. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's I think we're gonna play a full year,
Speaker 1: because that would indicate, Okay, well, you must not be
Speaker 1: all that serious about pushing a salary cap through, because
Speaker 1: it is very well documented that the union wants nothing
Speaker 1: to do with that. So I'm not reading all that
Speaker 1: much into those comments. I do think there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty seven season, just sort of my my speculative,
Speaker 1: gut feel. I think when push comes to shove enough,
Speaker 1: people understand how detrimental it would be, as you've talked about,
Speaker 1: if we just didn't have any baseball for a full year.
Speaker 1: The sport has made so much progress here in recent years.
Speaker 1: It feels like the rule changes have how to positive impact.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of positive energy. It just cannot happen,
Speaker 1: and I think at the end of the day. I
Speaker 1: hope at the end of the day people recognize that
Speaker 1: and we're able to have most of, if not just
Speaker 1: an entirely full twenty twenty seven season.
Speaker 2: This is why I love doing this podcast, you know,
Speaker 2: so so all our listeners know, I'm giving opinion. I'm
Speaker 2: not giving facts on everything. I mean, obviously I am
Speaker 2: quoting some facts and figures here and there, but I'm
Speaker 2: also giving an opinion about what they mean and what
Speaker 2: my concerns are. And I love that my partner here, Jesse,
Speaker 2: you know, he's a much more lass half full type
Speaker 2: of guy than I tend to be, so I need
Speaker 2: to saying much. So you know, look, this is a
Speaker 2: big concern for everybody, and you know everyone has their
Speaker 2: own thoughts and feelings on it, and you know, I
Speaker 2: think that it's just I hope everyone steps back from
Speaker 2: the ledge. That's that's hope.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, because I
Speaker 1: don't know what I would do with myself for an
Speaker 1: entire year if there was no baseball like that, that's
Speaker 1: just that's a scary thought. I don't want to even
Speaker 1: have to think about that. So hopefully Major League baseball
Speaker 1: does happen in twenty twenty seven. But nonetheless, the fact
Speaker 1: that Derek scoubl is on the Dodgers is not ideal.
Speaker 2: I did want to just one more time touch on
Speaker 2: the deferrals because I still keep seeing that come up online,
Speaker 2: and so for any of our listeners that haven't heard
Speaker 2: this before, I think it's really important to understand that
Speaker 2: just because money is deferred in a contract doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that they don't have to pay that money until after
Speaker 2: the player retires. At the end of the contract, they
Speaker 2: have to fund that money into an account by July
Speaker 2: first of the year following that the money was owed. So,
Speaker 2: for example, when sho he Otani deferred twenty four million
Speaker 2: dollars of his seventy million dollars salary the first year
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, that twenty four million deferred had
Speaker 2: to go to or however what it was, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking the number forty six million is a CBT.
Speaker 2: The sixty eight million that was deferred out of seventy
Speaker 2: That sixty eight million is put into an escrow account
Speaker 2: by July first of the following year twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and they do that year after year. Okay, so they
Speaker 2: have to. When the Diamondbacks deferred ten twelve million dollars
Speaker 2: a year of Corbyn Brn, they deferred sixty million dollars
Speaker 2: of Corbyn Burn's contract. The twenty twenty five money that
Speaker 2: was deferred was just deposited no later than July first
Speaker 2: of this year, So it's not like they have that money.
Speaker 2: And definitely to just use whatever they want, they have
Speaker 2: to put it in these escor accounts. Sorry to correct
Speaker 2: myself one more time. The amount that they deposit is
Speaker 2: what is deemed as the net present value. So in
Speaker 2: Oltani's case, it is forty six million that the Dodgers
Speaker 2: have to deposit until I first of every year of
Speaker 2: that contract.
Speaker 1: And is it like weird and gimmicky that Major League
Speaker 1: Baseball allows deferrals to that extent? I would say yes,
Speaker 1: Like I still don't know if it's if it's great
Speaker 1: that you can do that. It just seems kind of
Speaker 1: bizarre that it's like allowed to defer sixty eight out
Speaker 1: of out of the seventy million dollars that you're making annually.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, anyone's saying that, like, oh, deferrals
Speaker 1: are ruining baseball or the Dodgers are getting these guys
Speaker 1: for nothing. Yeah, it's not it's not true, and I
Speaker 1: do think it's also. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 1: anyone around here is going to want to hear this,
Speaker 1: but like, the Dodgers are really good at this. I
Speaker 1: mean they they are doing what they ought to be
Speaker 1: doing under the current CBA, like within the guidelines of
Speaker 1: what they're allowed to do. Making this trade for Trek
Speaker 1: School makes a ton of sense, right, I mean, all
Speaker 1: of these moves, like even signing Kyle Tucker for that
Speaker 1: outrageous amount of money. I know it hasn't worked out
Speaker 1: for them, but it's it's just sort of like that's
Speaker 1: something that they're able to do, and they have this
Speaker 1: outrageous system right now that just allows them to basically
Speaker 1: do whatever they would like. So I don't think this
Speaker 1: is like the Dodgers are maliciously ruining baseball. This is
Speaker 1: just like the Dodgers are really good at player development
Speaker 1: and scouting and making trades, and when you combine that
Speaker 1: with the limitless resources that they have, this is what
Speaker 1: you get.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, I don't have a problem with
Speaker 2: the fact that the Doctors heard an enormously successful business
Speaker 2: operation under their current management. Kudos to them. That's what
Speaker 2: they did. They pulled it off, and they worked within
Speaker 2: the rules. I guarantee you I have a show that
Speaker 2: I can never wear on this show that a few
Speaker 2: people watching this show have seen me wear. And you know,
Speaker 2: as far as competition and the team, I would say
Speaker 2: that I lose my professionalism when it comes to the Dodgers.
Speaker 2: I get really kind of emotional and upset, especially when
Speaker 2: their fans invade Chase Field and the way they behave
Speaker 2: and you know, there's nothing gave me greater satisfaction than
Speaker 2: watching what they were able to do in Dodger Stadium
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three. So I don't want this to
Speaker 2: come off the wrong way. But this isn't the Dodgers' fault.
Speaker 2: They're a business entity operating within the rules. They're not
Speaker 2: the evil Empire. They're doing what they're supposed to do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's the system and it's the structure
Speaker 2: that needs to be fixed. And a lot of people
Speaker 2: the flip side of this, and I've we've had this
Speaker 2: discussion with people like, you know, because what are you
Speaker 2: talking about communism, socialism? Well, you know, baseball's always had
Speaker 2: some kind of share going on, and the league is
Speaker 2: only as strong as its weakest links. If you want
Speaker 2: to have a healthy league, you have to have a
Speaker 2: team that has a decent level of parody and competition. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so they have to fix it.
Speaker 1: I think there's a good, a good case we made
Speaker 1: that Major League Baseball does not have that right now.
Speaker 1: So what does that look like in twenty twenty seven
Speaker 1: and beyond. We're going to find out. It's going to
Speaker 1: be probably a mess over the next six months to
Speaker 1: a year as we see those conversations play out.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: The trade deadline is now. I think we're into the
Speaker 1: eighteen hour range here, eighteen hours fifty four ish minutes
Speaker 1: here during our Sunday night live show. We are excited
Speaker 1: to see what the Diamondbacks ultimately do. We of course,
Speaker 1: will be here to react as soon as we can.
Speaker 1: Our scheduling tomorrow is a little bit in flux because
Speaker 1: of some things we have going on, but we will
Speaker 1: definitely hop on around the trade deadline itself, if not
Speaker 1: before tomorrow, to talk about whatever the Diamondbacks are able
Speaker 1: to do. We think there's gonna be something. No guarantees necessarily,
Speaker 1: but seems likely the Diamondbacks will make at least one
Speaker 1: trade between now and then. We're very grateful to all
Speaker 1: of you for hanging out with us here on this
Speaker 1: Sunday night. If you haven't already, you can find us
Speaker 1: on Twitter. I am at Jesse N. Friedman. Jack is
Speaker 1: at Shoe Wizard fifty nine in our show is at
Speaker 1: Snake's Territory. You can find Jack's written work over at
Speaker 1: Arizona Diamondbacks on SI Jack any final thoughts here as
Speaker 1: we continue the trade deadline countdown to three pm tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I really do appreciate so many people coming in and
Speaker 2: hanging out with us and saying hello tonight. I know
Speaker 2: that not everything I said struck the right chords with everybody,
Speaker 2: but you know, everybody's opinion is correct on this right.
Speaker 2: Nobody's wrong, It's just opinions are like we all got.
Speaker 1: One, well said, well said. Well, thank you again to
Speaker 1: all of you for being with us. We really appreciate it,
Speaker 1: and we'll be back tomorrow sometime with another edition of
Speaker 1: Snake's Territory