WEBVTT - Meta Tries to Poach OpenAI Staff, David Sacks Weighs In On Genius Act 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:08.520 Bloomberg Tech is alive from coast to coast, with Caroline 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.719 Hide in New York and Eva low into En frances Go. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.040 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Open Ai CEO Sam 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.079 Altman says Meta offered his employees signing bonuses as high 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.119 as one hundred million dollars. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.320 Plus it's a win for the crypto industry. After a 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.560 stable coin bill passes the Senate, we discussed with the 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.480 White House cryptos are David. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.239 Sachs and another extension for the sale of TikTok. We 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.479 have Frank McCourt Jr. To talk through where his bid stands. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.239 Meanwhile, we talk about his market. The macro perspective, ED, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.960 is one of a FED decision in but a few hours, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.360 the fact that the Middle East tensions will we see 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.080 outreach between the US in Iran. At the moment, we 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:53.959 seeing a buying signal. We're up six percent on the NASAC. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.120 Most of those magnificent seven names training higher. But ED, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.280 you're focusing in on one particular name. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:01.720 Yeah, I'm looking at Meta shares a kind of like 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.679 modestly higher up half a percentage point. Meta, open Ai, 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:07.920 Scale i AI have all been in the news a 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.360 lot recently. The headlight right now is because of this. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.040 They started making these like giant offers to you know 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.120 a lot of people on our team, you know, like 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.720 hund't mind our signing bonuses more than that comper years. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:24.840 And I'm actually it is crazy. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.960 I'm really happy that, at least so far, none of 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.000 our best people have decided to take them up on that. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.479 Bloomberg has reached out to Meta, but we've not heard 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.840 back on a request for comment. For more on Meta 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:40.639 and the competition for AI talent, Bloomberg's Jackie Duellis joins us. Now, Jackie, 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.880 what we didn't hear in the rest of that conversation 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.559 with his brother in Uncapped He went on to really 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.240 say some damning things, perhaps about Meta and the fact 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.440 that they lack innovation and ultimately is not losing talent 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.280 because they want to stay for the mission of Open AI. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.280 How fierce is it out there right now? 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.320 Well, there's a few things that we can draw from 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.360 his comments on the podcast. One, it confirms that there's 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.840 this new chapter in the AI talent wars. It's always 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.639 been fears, but it's reaching a new level now. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.080 One hundred million. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.880 Dollar bonuses is something we've never heard of before, and 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.120 it's really telling of how much Meta is willing to 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.960 pay to regain its edge in this AI race. 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.919 Altman's comments also highlight, like you said, there is confidence 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.640 that it's going to take more than just money to 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.639 bring the best and brightest to your team. If you 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.800 look at open AI's mission statement, they say that they 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.919 think about their work for the benefit of humanity. That's 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.680 really bold and large and purposeful. Whereas Meta I looked 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.760 up their mission statement earlier and it says we're advancing 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.800 AI for a more connected world to accelerate the potential 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.360 future META products for the benefit of people. It's not 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.280 as deep if you really dig into it, Jackie. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.440 A big part of the conversation that Sam Altman was 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.600 having with the reasons why one hundred million dollars isn't 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.240 enough to get open A employees to go to Meta. 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:02.160 What was his argument. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:04.360 Part of the. 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:08.120 Argument is this larger purpose and also that they're not 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.640 as innovative that you know, people want to go to 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.959 a place where they feel like they're going to be 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.840 able to do their best work and some of that 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.880 culture problem that we've seen with Meta, and you know 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:22.880 they've also admitted in the past that they kind of 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.040 have trouble with middle management and just kind of the 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.640 almost internal bureaucracy of how you get things out there 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.560 that doesn't exist to the same degree according to all 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:34.920 men at Open AI. And so when you think about 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.920 the people that are going to go over, they won't 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.000 want to be able to have that assurance that their 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.040 ideas are actually going to make it into reality. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:45.720 And Jackie, they want to be on the winning team. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.480 They want to get to AGI first, and that seems 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.000 to be the point of this. There's no point coming second. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.040 You need to be at the business that leaves the charge. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.840 And interestingly, those pay packages have led on some significant 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:02.040 talent to the superintelligence team from DeepMind, from sesame AI. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.480 That's right, it's but you know, we have to remember 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:11.280 that they are working in a new kind of organization. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.960 Meta at the end of the day needs. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:18.960 To incorporate this technology into its products, which is, you know, 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.400 the money maker they have shareholders they need to appease 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.640 on a quarterly basis, and that kind of pressure could 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.479 also affect the way the speed at which they work, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.400 how quickly they roll out these these tools. But AGI 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.400 super Intelligence, this is new ground for Meta. They they 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:41.120 haven't really shredded this sort of landscape before in the 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.839 same way that open ai was really founded on these 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.400 principles to to create a gi and so you know, 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.240 you have the best and brightest, going, really intelligent people, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.719 but we've seen some uh friction, some tension and. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:57.320 You know going on in. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.080 Its own in its fair team, the the research team 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.720 inside Mata, So they're not exactly going into a place 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:06.039 that has this all figure it out. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.160 Bloomberg, Jackie de Ballas, thank you very much. Let's get 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.120 to a story that broke in the last hour. Open 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.880 ai is phasing out the work it does with scale Ai, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.720 cutting ties with that company just days after Meta's fourteen 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.400 billion dollar investment. Bloomboath Rachel Metz joins us with more So, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.200 I think there's a very important distinction of what's happening here. 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.880 Open i has existing contracts with scale Ai, but what 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.520 we've learned is that that relationship is going to change 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:32.159 in the future. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.920 Yes, open ai is phasing out the remaining work that 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:37.960 is doing with scale Ai. 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:39.440 The company has. 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.320 Branched out a lot over the past few years as 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.640 its data needs have expanded vastly, and also changed based 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.600 on the kinds of models that it's building. So at 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:52.880 this point Scale represents the companies puts as a very 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.200 small fraction of its business, but over time it's going 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.360 to now be totally phasing that out. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:00.320 Chill. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.600 These two stories, yours and Jackie's, are linked the narratives 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.799 because of course Alexander Wang goes to the superintelligence team 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.839 over at Meta and indeed takes a lot of the 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:14.039 talent from SCALEAI. There other companies, perhaps not just open Ai, 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.719 start to move away from SCALEAI. Are you hearing it 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.440 elsewhere that maybe these contracts get undone in the future. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:25.640 We are definitely hearing that companies that provide data and 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.480 data services. It's a very fractured, fragmented space. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:31.880 And there are a lot of companies. 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.200 That are much less known than Scale but that are 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.320 also worked with by these companies like open Ai Andthropic, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.320 Google and many others. And I know they're seeing a 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.600 surge of inbound interest and they also are hearing from 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.240 some nervousness from some of their customers. Companies tend to 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.800 work with a bunch of players, and it is possible 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.560 that this tie up, even the Scale has said it 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.120 will remain as an independent business. 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:57.600 It will make people nervous. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.640 We should say that Scale ai did decline to comment 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.000 on the story, just as Meta declined to comment on 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:09.119 the Sam Outman claims on comp The history of Scale 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.680 is interesting because there's an element of manual work that 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.800 they're doing and they relied on this kind of army 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.040 of contractors. Just explain that the basics of that, because 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.840 my reading of your story is the open AI was 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.080 thinking about the relationship over the past year before a 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:23.880 lot of this happened. 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.880 Anyway, Yes, so Scale ai at You're absolutely correct. It 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.840 started out as a business that had a large number 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:38.000 of contractors that were paid to label data for AI models. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.080 Over time, though, the AI market has shifted and shifted 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.040 quite rapidly, so at this point, while it still has 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.760 that legacy human data labeling business, it's also expanded into 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.120 a few other areas, and one of them is increasingly 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.280 hiring experts, experts that might work a few hours on 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.480 the nights or weekend, someone with a PhD or a 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.280 law degree, and instead of labeling data directly, what they're. 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.800 Doing is coming up with difficult tasks for EI models 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:04.240 to solve. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.600 And that's also something that's become increasingly important to open AI, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.440 but it seems like skill is opening. I felt that 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.000 skill was not quite up to the level that it 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.400 needed to support its products with this kind of work. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.000 Remokes Rachel Mets. We appreciate it, thank you. Let's just 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.400 talk about Emil Musk's AI startup now xai. It is 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:29.200 burning through one billion dollars a month, with expected losses 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.880 of thirteen billion in twenty twenty five due to the 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.040 high costs of building advanced AI models. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:34.280 Now. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.440 This is all according to sources, who say that to 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.400 cover the gap, musk start up is currently trying to 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.559 raise nine point three billion dollars in debt in equity. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.200 But even before the money is in the bank, the 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.439 company has plans to spend more than half of it 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:55.960 is the next three months alone it Amazon CEO Andy 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.880 Jesse says he expects his workforce to shrink as a 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.160 handles more tasks. In an email to employees yesterday, Jasi 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.440 wrote that over the next few years, Amazon expects to 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.880 quote reduce our total corporate workforce. Is the later CEO 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.559 to warn of AI's impact on headcount. Now Amazon had 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.760 over one and a half million employees at the end 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.560 of March, mostly though in warehouse jobs ed. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.160 Another company that's warned about the impact of AI on 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.800 the workforce is Klana, embracing generatorve AI tools, though with 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.200 some change of heart on hiring for customer services. Today, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.000 the startup, known for its buy and now pay Lada service, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.120 is entering the mobile market with plans to launch a 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.000 thirty dollars per month service in the US, with plans 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.280 to expand into the UK and Germany later this year. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.920 Klana's CEO Sebastian Schmierkowski joins us now welcome to the 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.360 world of Mvno. It was a headline I didn't expect 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.880 to see, Sebastian. I mean, the simple question for claner 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.520 is why why do this? 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:56.760 It comes back actually to the fact that we do 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.000 believe the future is a digital financial assistant that helps 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.880 you save time, save money. And in this case, if 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.640 we not only identify that one of our customers can 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.240 save money using this, but we can actually put it, 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.160 bundle it together and offer it by this seamless experience 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.880 of just a button say yes, I would like to 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.839 get a better price or a better offer, and here 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:19.720 it is and it's live on my phone with virtual 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.000 SIM cards. Now you can get it live very very quickly. 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.400 That makes a lot of sense. So it's just a 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.200 way for us to kind of bundle more services and 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:27.959 value to our existing customer base. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:30.680 The mechanism, right is that this is on the AT 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.559 and T network forty dollars a month. Does Klana make 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.679 any money on that arrangement? 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.679 We do, But most importantly this adds value to our 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:42.320 customer base. 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.680 I think also, like one of my beliefs is that 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:46.160 if you have if. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.240 We're going to have truly digital financial assistance that can 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.120 recognize can come to you and wake you up in 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:53.520 the morning and say I can save you on the 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.520 carrier bill, I can save you on electricity bill. The 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.040 only thing you need to do is say yes, and 0:10:58.080 --> 0:10:59.920 I'll take care of all the switching. I'll do everything, 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.000 you all the paperwork. So you're just going to save 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:03.960 ten dollars a month or whatever it is. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:05.520 The point is. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.640 What that means is the excess profits that have existed 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.120 in utilities, in banking and all these things will have 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.680 to come down because we are predominantly stuck with our 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.679 existing providers, not because we love them, not because they're awesome, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.199 but because we hate switching and we hate leading reading 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.240 boring legal terms. 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.760 To realize is this offer really better or not? Right? 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.640 So the point is that, like we believe that their 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.000 marginsy in these services will be significantly lower going forward. 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.200 And that's why. Also it's smarter of us to who are. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.080 A new entrance into this industry, to come in with 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.960 a very attractive offer from day one, rather than believe 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.800 that we can lure people into some long, lengthy contracts 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:49.720 and make too much money on them over time. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.760 New entrants that already serve twenty five million active users 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.440 here in the United States, many users who associate you 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.920 really would buy now, pay later. How is that narrative shifting? 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.040 How were starting to see you as everything happ instead? 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:03.880 Well, definitely a neo bank at least. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.600 I think that the neo banking concept again comes back 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.440 to that digital financial assistant, that we want to help 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.360 people save time, save money, and have them not worry 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.559 about their finances. We want to help them with all 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.839 of that, and that is kind of what banking was 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:19.480 supposed to do. But at some point in time that 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.040 banker got a little bit too smart realized you didn't 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.120 really have that good understanding of your own stuff and 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.520 put you in some pension funds where they were charging 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.440 you to I fees on it. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:30.400 Like that has to change. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.320 We have to come back and be in customer obsessed 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.960 and offer it the greatest value at the lowest you know, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.800 in the highest quality, at the most affordable price. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:40.600 So that is what we're doing. 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.720 And to us, it's everything related to you know, your 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.959 every day spending, and phone is part of your everyday spending, right, 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:48.880 It's a every day. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.599 Cost for you. So this this falls very naturally into that. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.480 You the Trump organization, everyone is getting into the phone companies. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.760 But I'm interested, Sebastian, and you say your customer obsessed. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.440 To be customer obsessed, you have to be employee obsessed. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.439 I'm interested on the shift you've made when it comes 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.480 to customer services. You've come on the show before and 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.839 said we're all in on general to AI, I could place, 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.400 I could replace myself as CEO. I'm replacing customer services. 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:15.920 I don't need to add in terms of people and headcount. 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:17.160 But you've changed your mind on that. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.160 Well, Partially what we've said is that, like, look, I 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.680 think in many countries you'll see that in the last 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.560 ten to twenty years, our doctors and nurses have spent 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.800 less and less time with patients and more and more 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.880 times on administrative tasks. In addition to that, the cost 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.840 of administration in healthcare has risen much faster than the 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.920 amount of money spent on actual doctors, nurses and being 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.760 available to patients. So what this AI technology can enable 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.839 us to do is to again take all the administrative 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.240 burdens out, make those be processed by AI and allow 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.040 doctors and nurses to be available and actually spend time 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.439 on patients. And this is the same for us as 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.760 a company. We can use ais AT technology so that 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.480 when people want to speak to us and if they 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:02.360 want to speak to a human, which we want to 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:03.960 make sure that everyone who wants to speak to human 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.160 should always be able to do so, we also want 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.960 to make sure that those humans have less administrative task 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.520 and can actually spend more time. So to me, the 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.839 value of human connection rises in the world of AI. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:16.440 It becomes more valuable. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.440 It becomes more expected that you have people that have 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.800 time to talk to you properly, not rushed in the 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.880 customer service center, that can actually sit down with you 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.840 and resolve your errands and so to us two things 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:28.640 can be so true. At the same point of time, 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.720 we can use AI to take and automate the boring 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.320 and mundane task away, and we at the same point 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.000 of I must recognize that people will expect a human 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.240 connection Sebastian. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:44.200 Being an everything app or everything platform is a goal 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.840 and vision you share with others. X has similar ambitions, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.960 particularly in finance, right, But Uber would also say there 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.040 are elements of its platform that in the future it 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.240 can move into the areas you're talking about. Where do 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.360 you see yourself sitting and who are your rivals in 0:14:59.400 --> 0:14:59.960 that domain? 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.440 It's the billion dollar question, my friend, in the silicon 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.520 value right now, will there be one assistant to serve all, 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.920 one ring to forge them all or will there be 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.040 multiple assistants? 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:14.280 Right? 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:16.680 And the answer is nobody knows. 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.840 I at least for one, need to know that our 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.920 assistant digital financial system needs to be the best in 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.760 the world at what it does for our customers, and 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.480 hopefully people want to use it for that now. On 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.560 the other hand, as much as some people are yeah, 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.760 of course, it's just going to be one. I've been 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.400 around twenty years long enough to remember in two thousand 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.680 and seven, when Facebook was supposed to be where all 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.600 of Internet happened, and all of Internet was going to 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.960 happen inside Facebook, that didn't. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.200 Actually materialize that way. 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.040 So I'm still probably in the camp that there will 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.080 be a few really smart assistants that help you on 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.960 different topics and that you trust more on specific topics 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:53.440 than others. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:55.960 But this is the billion dollar question. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.120 And we're old enough to remember that Klan is older 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.600 than Facebook Meta. So the IPO not happening this year, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:04.480 mind it next year. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.400 Well, I would say market conditions look brighter than they 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:15.320 did back in April, but now, as you know, I 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:15.920 can't comment on. 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.120 That, so I'm sorry. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.760 I would love to say something more than that, but 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.280 I think at least it's great to see that markets 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:21.720 look better. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.360 Sebastian is always great talking to you. Thank you, Knnescio. 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.240 Sebastian instrum Kowski. 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.760 Robotaxi firm Zekes has opened a production facility in the 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.640 Bay Area that says has the capacity to turn out 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.280 ten thousand robotaxes a year. The Amazon unit's been testing 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.400 its purpose built robotaxis that have no steering wheel wall 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.320 pedals in locations across San Francisco and Las Vegas. 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:43.800 Zooks. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.920 CEO I S. Evans joins us from the new facility, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.400 and the obvious question is, like ten thousand robotaxes a 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.880 year at full scale, it's a lot of potential, But 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.080 what's the reality. I've always known you to be very pragmatic. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.240 Give me the sort of target for this year and 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.440 next year for what we'll roll off the line. 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.159 Yeah, the reality is really, first of all, thanks for 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:04.720 having me ed. 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:05.280 Good to see you. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.000 The reality is that we're just ready. We are, as 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.560 you know, we're very excited. We're finally headed to our 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.880 commercial lounge in starting in Las Vegas. Ladis is here 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.680 and from there you have more and more robot taxis 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.360 coming in than we have San Francisco. Right after that 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.560 Austin and Miami coming up, and so we're gearing up 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.199 to basically be ready because as you know, with our 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.920 robot taxi it's purpose built serial production in the United States, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.520 So putting the capacity in place and then turning it 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.920 on little by little as we go city by city. 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.399 The ten thousand numbers important in the context of federal rules. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.520 Right right now, there's a limit on the number of 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.679 vehicles that can be on public roads that have no 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.000 driver controls, just like your vehicle. But Nitza's looking at it. 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.800 How are those talks going with nitzer And do you 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.440 think you'll get that exemption to really scale up in 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:56.440 the coming year or two. 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.960 So, as you know, we want the self certification route, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.479 that's all that was available at the time. I have 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.719 to say we're very grateful to the administration for the 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.560 progress in this innovation is happening worldwide and so making 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.600 sure the US is prepared is really key. And the 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.480 talks aren't going really well. I've always said that this 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.960 is a huge transformation in transportation and working hand in 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:25.600 hand with the regulatory authorities is key. And really really 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.280 impressed with the speed so far. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.680 How about Amazon support as well? How much are they 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:36.400 loosening the purse strings? How much budget have you got Asia. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.399 So I don't know about loosening the first string. We 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.399 want to be every day. Were still a startup. We 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.240 have a lot of work to do. This is very 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.480 expensive and so what I can say is that Amazon 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.000 has been very supportive. They ask us good questions, they 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.399 support us, and you know, of course we come in 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:53.040 with a budget. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:53.800 We discuss it. 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.080 We come in with what we have to what we 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.960 say we commit to doing, we have to do it. 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.360 And if we don't do with their questions as there 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.200 should be. But frankly, super super happy. It's been five years, 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.480 so way past the dating period and a greatful to Amazon. 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.200 Full of relationship. What's interesting is they're also eyeing others 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.679 on the block. I'm sure the competitors just tell us 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:20.120 about the robo taxi competition weaimo and particularly from Tesla. 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.399 Is this narrative good for you? How much has that 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:23.600 impacted the government? 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.280 Look, we've always said this is a huge market right 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:32.280 at scale after a sort of shelter meaning homes, apartments 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.560 and dwellings. Transportation is one of the most important and 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.800 also costly things. We know that it could be a 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.120