1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, major breakthrough in the search 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: for a six year old kidnapped, missing autistic boy. I'm 3 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace and this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 4 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Series eleven. 5 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this six year 6 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: old Jojo Morales, at the center of a contentious custody 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: battle ever since his parents split three years ago. He 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: asked me, Hello, it truly has been hell. I've had 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: trouble eating, slee being and it's just being. You know, 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: any mother can can identify with me. It was back 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: in August when George Morales and his mother, Lilliam Painia 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: Morales disappeared with Jojo. Investigators believed they traveled north into Canada, 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: but for weeks they found no sign of the trio. 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: That is until Sunday, when they were spotted at a 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: Walmart in Moncton, Canada, a spotting. Is it correct? Is 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: it really? Jojo? Are hopes raised only to be dash? 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends from w PLG Local ten news. 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: That is a major break in itself. From what we know, 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: the kidnapper is a right wing religious nut who had 20 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: made statements that this little boy was on his way 21 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: to heaven. The search intensifying. Now take a listen to this. 22 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: This is an ambreller. There are certain criteria that need 23 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: to be met for that to be issued. Among them, 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: law enforcement needs to believe that there's a chance that 25 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: the child could be in harm's way. So let's show 26 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: you who he is. This is the boy. His full 27 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: name is Jodey Gavided Morales. His nickname is Jojo. He 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: is a six year old boy with autism. He's got 29 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: brown hair, brown eyes, about three feet tall, weighing about 30 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: fifty pounds. He does have a scar under his right eye. 31 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: No one has heard from them now, and his mother 32 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: is desperate to get him back home. My biggest accomplice, 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: may hush just be taken away from me. I just 34 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: miss him so much. Janet Leles Concepcion is beside herself, 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: unable to sleep, unable to eat, totally devastated that her 36 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: six year old son, Jojo, has been missing since Saturday. 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: Can you even imagine your child suddenly gone missing again? 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: This is a six year old little autistic boy joining 39 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what 40 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: we know right now. But first of all, I want 41 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: to go out to JoJo's mom Janette. Janette, thank you 42 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: for being with us. Janette, tell us about Jojo. When 43 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: you say he is autistic, what do you mean by that? 44 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: Because there are so many degrees. I mean, for instance, 45 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: if Jojo was in fact this child spotted, could he 46 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: go up to a cashier and say, I've been kidnapped, 47 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: I want my mommy, when when we're talking about autism, 48 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: that you were saying, the spectrum is very wide, and 49 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: we have been blessed that he's on the high functioning 50 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: part of the spectrum. Unfortunately, he would not be able 51 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: to express exactly the situation he's in. So he if 52 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: he was spotted, he would not be able to say, hey, 53 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: I'm kidnapped, somebody take me to my mom. He would just, 54 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, probably just say hey, why can't what kind 55 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: of car do you have? He won't he won't really 56 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: express what he's going through. He wouldn't be aware of 57 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: his situation at all. Joining me and I'll start palling. 58 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: Addition to Jojoe's mother, Jeanette, I want to go to 59 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: doctor Thomas Plant, who is critical to today's broadcast. Professors 60 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: Psychology Religious Studies at Stanford University School of Medicine and 61 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: editor of Spirituality in Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction 62 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased. Doctor Plant, 63 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. We are 64 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: dealing with a kidnapper who seemingly is a religious zealot 65 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: who many of us believe would murder the little boy 66 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: rather than have him live a life of sin. In 67 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: his eyes, a six year old child with autism can 68 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: be a sinner. Is sinful, is bad. So what is that? Yeah, 69 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: it's such a challenging and difficult situation when you have 70 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: someone that is using their religious beliefs, practices, and tradition 71 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: in a way to justify egregious, you know, potentially murderous, 72 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: the illegal kind of behavior, And sadly that happens sometimes, unfortunately, 73 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: some people will use their religion, practices, traditions and so 74 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: forth a great good, and some people choose to use 75 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: them for great harm, and they justify their impulses, their 76 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: challenged beliefs, and so forth in a way that somehow 77 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: makes them feel that they're doing the right thing rather 78 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: than the wrong thing. And so this is terribly disturbing 79 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: and it happens way too often and we all have 80 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: to do all that we can within all of the 81 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: religious traditions in order to try to stop that kind 82 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: of behavior. I'm just wondering if it has a particular name, 83 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: because they're saying, for instance, many mothers that will actually 84 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: kill their children rather and in their minds they kill 85 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: her mom's minds, she's saving the child from a love 86 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: as she believes sin, which would only lead to the 87 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: child ending up with the devil. That's right. And usually 88 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: we'll call this a variety of things, one of which 89 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: is a rationalization. Of course, it's an ego defense mechanism 90 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: where people will rationalize their problematic behavior. Another is cognitive dissonance, 91 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: which is when you have sort of a thought and 92 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: a belief for what, or a thought and a behavior 93 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: that is not consistent, then you are highly motivated to 94 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: alter one in order to justify the other. So that 95 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: would be cognitive dissonance. And in this case, someone is 96 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: taking let's say a religious tradition, let's say it's Christianity 97 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: or something like that, and if they are familiar with 98 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: the Bible, the Gospels and so forth, they may read 99 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: these messages of love and support and helping the marginalize 100 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: and the pure and children and this and that and 101 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: the orphans, and yet somehow try to justify that reading 102 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: with these impulse of of of kidnapping and harm and 103 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: so forth. So that would be what we would call 104 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance production. I'm trying to just take in everything 105 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: you're saying. I'm just a JD. Right, you are the expert, 106 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: doctor Plant. It seems to me that a Christian zealot 107 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: of this ilk, the man that stole kidnap baby Jojo, 108 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: read the Old Testament and forgot about the New Testament 109 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: and got hung up on a father willing to kill 110 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: his child to please and angry God. Revenge and war 111 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: and the smell of burning meat is a good thing 112 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: in offering to Heaven. Not what the message is in 113 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: the New Testament at all. It's like the New Testaments, 114 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: the whole correction of the Old Testament. This. I'm just 115 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: a lay person. I know Bible are like you are. 116 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to figure out how does rationalization, 117 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: which we all do right too. I'm going to kidnap 118 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: this child, and I'm gonna kill this little six year 119 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: old boy rather than him be a sinner. I mean, 120 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: how does it lead from rationalization, which we all do 121 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: that to becoming a violent criminal and taking the baby 122 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: away from his mother. No, you make a great point 123 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: in Nancy that you know, rationalization and so forth can 124 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: get to the extreme and people inevitably will cherry pick 125 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Bible verses and so forth and interpreted in the way 126 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: that they want to. One thing we haven't talked about 127 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: thus far is the role of psychopathology here and then 128 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: we don't know in terms of whether or not this 129 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: particular person has a delusional disorder, or has a personality disorder, 130 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: or other kinds of disorders that might dove tail with 131 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: their religious experience or religious beliefs. This is what happens. Okay, 132 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: doctor Plant, you're just going to have to talk more slowly. Oh, 133 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, because everybody here we're all scratching oer here 134 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: is we say that one more time? Listen, this little 135 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: boy at best has been taken two thousand miles away 136 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: from his mother and what we believe to be a 137 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: violent kidnap. Now, rationalization, to me, that's like, oh, you 138 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: know what, I've already cheated on my diet all day long. 139 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,599 Speaker 1: I might as well have a whole pack of a 140 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Wian roles that that's rationalization and that's wrong. I get it, 141 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: But this is a whole nother thing, doctor Plant. No, 142 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: you're right. The things can be in the extreme, and 143 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: there's no question that this is in the extreme end. Sadly, 144 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: it happens too common in too often an awful lot 145 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: of people. And we see this day in and day out, 146 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: where people will try to justify their egregious behavior, their 147 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: criminal behavior, they're in a murderous behavior somehow that it's 148 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: blessed by their tradition or their or their understanding of 149 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: God or whatever. And which does just you know, pan 150 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: out if you actually are knowledgeable or thoughtful about these 151 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: various religious traditions, all I can say is when it 152 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: comes to religion in this case, this scenario with baby 153 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: Jojo being violently kidnapped, the angels are crying about this 154 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: twisting the Holy word Time stories with Nancy Grace. It 155 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: has there been a spotting of Jojo? Is he truly 156 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: with his father and grandmother who I believe has stirred 157 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: the pot from the gego take a listen to this. 158 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: George Morales is just six years old. He also goes 159 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: by Jojo and let's believed that he was kidnapped by 160 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: his father and grandmother. Now that happened just hours after 161 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: JoJo's mother was granted full custody. And I'll take a 162 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: look at this flyer. These are the people who are 163 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: believed to be with Jojo. Now his mother and Nes 164 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: Concepsio tells us he is autistic and was last seen 165 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: in homestead. She believes his father may hurt him because 166 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: of something he told his son. She says he spent 167 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: time researching living off the grid, and last September, her 168 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: son began making cryptic comments back people. Wait. Concepsion recorded 169 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: some of these conversations. Mama over technique. He commented to 170 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: me that he wanted to take him to leave in 171 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: a farm with winmals, and he wanted me to go 172 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: with him. When Concepcion went to pick up her son 173 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: as part of a custody exchange in late August, they 174 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: had picked up and left. WHOA, that just hurts my 175 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: stumming to hear it. Those are our friends at w 176 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: PLG Local ten. You know Joe Carrilla with us private 177 00:11:54,520 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: investigator at LEVERAGEPI dot com. Leverage Investigations found or bringing 178 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: them home project. You know what, nothing strikes fear in 179 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: me like off the grid. Look, I know how to 180 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: find somebody on the run. I'm living at that, finding fugitives, 181 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: convicting them, getting them behind bars. But when you say 182 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: off the grid, forget about cell phone tracking, any kind 183 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: of data, credit cards atm withdrawals, GPS navigation. They're not 184 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: going to call anybody they know back home because they 185 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: know they can be traced. That's off the grid. You're 186 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: not going to see them at the walmart or the 187 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: gas station. They're growing their own corn and living off 188 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: the land. That's what off the grid means to me. 189 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: And it's virtually impossible to find them. I'm an old 190 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: timer and one I started looking for people. There was 191 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: no cell phone tracking because there was no cell phone, 192 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: and the only way you find somebody that's running is 193 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: to chase them. And they started running in Maine, so 194 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: we sent people to main and started chasing him, way 195 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: ahead of everybody else. We found an angel up there 196 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: named Jennifer Dorman who had a special dog because nobody 197 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: knew whether they were in Maine or Canada or on 198 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: the Moon. And we ran that dog twice with authorization, 199 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: and that dog ran straight into Canada. We knew that 200 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: answered the question for everybody. Where did they go? Okay, wait, well, 201 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: I want to start at the beginning because I'm really 202 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: getting a lot of information. Guys. The self professed old timer, 203 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: which is not an old timer at all. It's the 204 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: only one that was able to make a breakthrough in 205 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: this case. Joe Carrillo is joining us. Let's just start 206 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: with how we spin. How you find them in Maine? 207 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: You're the one they did that. How did you get 208 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: us that far? Well, their car was found in Maine 209 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: right away and reported to the police as soon as 210 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: we got into the case. We obviously got that information. 211 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: So we knew the car was up there, and we 212 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: knew nobody from Miami Dade had been up there. Nobody, 213 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 1: So we sent an investigator to Maine and he in 214 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: state police, who then we kind of put everybody together 215 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: to really start the ball rolling, and then we came up. 216 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: They found the car, but we're the ones that got 217 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: them there. Guys. We're talking to Joe Carrillo, private investigator 218 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: who managed to at least find the dad, the religious 219 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: maniac dad and his mother. They're quite the two peas 220 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: in the pod and little Jojo got him as far 221 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: as Maine. You know, I want you to take a 222 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: listen now to our cut four our friends at w 223 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: FO R CBS. Now, as I mentioned, JoJo's mother was 224 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: granted full custody, but she says when she went to 225 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: pick her son up from the apartment her ex husband 226 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: lives with his mom, there was nothing there and all 227 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: of their numbers are now dis acted now. Concepton says 228 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: her son is extremely smart, knows her phone number by heart, 229 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: but is unable to have a normal conversation. I just 230 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: want my vigmie pocket. Really, there's nothing we'ren't doing. My 231 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: five feet back. This is his father. He's also named 232 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: hojote Him Moralis. He is forty five years old with 233 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: brown hair, brown eyes, and his six feet tall. Yesterday, 234 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: Miami Dade Police announced that together with the State Attorney's Office, 235 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: they issued a warrant for his arrest for illegally taking Jojo. 236 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: He does not have overnight custody of him. His grandmother 237 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: picked him up from his mom's house here in deep 238 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: southwest Miami Dade on August twenty seventh, and when mom 239 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: went to pick him up, he was nowhere to be 240 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: found and hasn't been heard from since. Two thoughts running 241 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: through my head, how this whole thing started immediately after 242 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: mom gets a custody victory, and two how often this 243 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: curs over custody. At first, I want to go to 244 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: Janet concepts you on this is JoJo's mom. So you 245 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: got a custody victory and you were awarded custody. Your husband, 246 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: your ex husband, kidnaps the baby and goes on the run. 247 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: As I always say, I'm going to come to you 248 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: in a moment. Kathleen Murphy, a veteran expert domestic lawyer. 249 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: There's a reason he did not have overnight visitation. There's 250 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: a reason baby Jojo could not spend the night with daddy. 251 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: And this is exactly it. Very often this activity is glamorized, Oh, 252 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: mommy kidnapped for a child. Be asked, there is a 253 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: reason mommy can't spend the night with the baby to 254 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: start with, trust me on that, Janette, tell me what 255 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: happened when you first realized Jojo was gone. It was 256 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: I first got, you know, the feeling or something is 257 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: really wrong here, and my worst nightmare came through because 258 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 1: the court grunted us over night for the same reason 259 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: we were able to demonstrate that he was trying to 260 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: move without telling anybody because we found out he was 261 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: living in a hotel first without us knowing anything. And 262 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: every time that we will go on a high, he 263 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: would come out of his house like he was living 264 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: there when he wasn't. Okay, wait wait wait wait wait, 265 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: that's a whole another layer of subterfuge and lying. So 266 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: let me understand this with me is JoJo's mom, and 267 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: we have been on an odyssey trying to find Jojo. 268 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: So he's supposed to be living in his home. You 269 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: find out that he's actually living in a hotel, but 270 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: when you go drop off and pickup, he walks out 271 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: of the old house like he's still living there. Absolutely, 272 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: And the only reason why I noticed was because my 273 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: son was having a changing behavior. Didn't want it to 274 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: go with them. He was acting up. My son was 275 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: out of his routine, and that really really disturbed them. 276 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: So I immediately take action. I call one of my 277 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: realtor friends and I tell him, hey, by any science, 278 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: can you find out if this guy sold his house? 279 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: And then he called me back screaming, oh my god, 280 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: he sold it over three weeks ago and I was, 281 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, on the floor crying and I'm like, oh, 282 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy is you know, he's going 283 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: to run away. And then we went through an emergency 284 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: motion through the Core, and the CORE obviously is trying 285 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: to make the right decision and they just granted us 286 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: all overnight, not for custody until later on, but overnight 287 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: so that that he wouldn't become a flight with So Janet, 288 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: let me fast forward to the momad. You go to 289 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: pick up Jojo and nobody's there, and the grandma, who 290 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: I really think masterminded this whole thing, she's gone to 291 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: all three of them gone. What happened? I immediately call 292 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: the police and I call the police and I called 293 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: my lawyer so that my lawyer can you know, advocate 294 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: for us, being that this is social bottle in core 295 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: and that there was a psychiatric evaluation so that they 296 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: would you realize the seriousness of the situation. They did. 297 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: The police comes because the father had daytime custody. They 298 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: weren't able to do much at the moment except trying 299 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: to confirm that he wasn't there. Where were you Was 300 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: this at the home? Was this at a hotel? Where 301 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: did you do knock on the door to get him, 302 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: and nobody was there. They were leaving after they lost 303 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: over night, they went and moved to an apartment closer 304 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: to one eighty seven three and one on seven Avenue. Yet, 305 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: and so is that where you went to the apartment 306 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: and you go up and ring the doorbell. No, we 307 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: wait outside because there is a there is more history 308 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: to this. I had to stay away order against him, 309 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: So his mom will walk outside with my kid outside 310 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: in the gate. Oh my goodness. Kathleen Murphy joining me, 311 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: high profile family lawyer out of North Carolina at NC 312 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: Domestic Law dot com. Really, she can't, Mommy can't even 313 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: go up to the door. Not her fault, because she's 314 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: got to stay away order on the dad. So if 315 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: she violates her own order, then she's screwed. So she 316 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: has to pull up and sit there in the car 317 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: and wait for the grandma who was a nutcake herself, 318 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: the grandma to come out. You know, she's the one 319 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: stirring up all this religious hatred. She has to wait 320 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: for the grandma to come out before she can get 321 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: the baby. So the mom goes up there and sits 322 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: and sits and says, and then why is it so confusing, 323 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy? Why is it so difficult for the court 324 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: systems to put the smack down on people. I heard 325 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: Janet say something about a psychological evaluation. I'm wondering if 326 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: his father had a psychological evaluation. I wonder also, what 327 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: was the custodial order? Was it she had sole legal 328 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: and physical custody. I understand it was temporary. Why was 329 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: it temporary just because he sold a house? Clearly there's 330 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: more there. And if there's more there, why didn't the 331 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: court make his visits supervised until they could get to 332 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: the bottom of it. I like in Josh Powell, Remember yeah, 333 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: remember Susan Powell's husband that killed her by the way, 334 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: and he's walking free and nobody does a darn thing 335 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: about it, and then he gets supervised visits with the boys, 336 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: and then he has the boys, slams the door and 337 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: the supervisor's face and kills the boys and burns the 338 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: house down. That kind of supervised visit, it's all? Is 339 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: it defts? Is that who's doing the supervised visits? Kathleen? 340 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: There are agencies that do supervise visitation. Some of them 341 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: are private, some of them are funded through United Way agencies. 342 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: Here you can hire a professional supervisor to meet you 343 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: in public places. You know what, I'm just going to 344 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: stay married. If I have to go through all this 345 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: to see the twins, just forget it. This guy, this dad, 346 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: made that impossible because of his vile behavior, his aggression, 347 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: his violence. And then he goes spouting religious nonsense as 348 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: a justification to kill the boy and he takes off. 349 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: I mean, back to you, doctor Thomas Plant, how often 350 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: have you seen religion And that's a double air quote 351 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: right there, turn into something. It's a horrible can Nancy, 352 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: It's terrible. You know that religion can be used as 353 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: a terrible weapon, can be used for great good and 354 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: great evil, and sadly, as you know, as you well know, 355 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the other guests on your show note too. 356 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: When it comes to custody and when it comes to 357 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: high conflict divorce, sometimes people act remarkably awful and they 358 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: try to justify their awful behavior by using religious themes, 359 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: and that can be just kind of crazy making at 360 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: some level. A lot of people in these circumstances are 361 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: trying to get back at their divorce spouse, and they 362 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: use the child as sort of the battlefield in order 363 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: to achieve that goal. It's horrific, it really is. Yeah, 364 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: I'm just listening to this scenario and thinking, again, that's 365 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: exactly why Dad did not have spin the night privilege 366 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: as well. The entire community, law enforcement community, a law wage, Caillo, 367 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: private investigator, thank God in Heaven at Leverage PI come 368 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: together to try to find baby Jojo. Listen, our friends 369 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: at Local Tien Detectives are considering this a kidnapping case, 370 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: which is why that Amber alert is in effect. These 371 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: are the billboards you'll likely see a major highways throughout 372 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: South Florida. The hope is that with an Amber alert out, 373 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: we'll be able to track down little Jemans or Jojo 374 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: as they call him. Now, we do know that perhaps 375 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: the child may be taking some type of medication. Now 376 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: it's already gone three to four days without that medication. 377 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: So now we start being our investigators get a little concerned. 378 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: Let's show you Dad's car. This is a Grade two 379 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: thousand and six Ford Expedition with the license plate CSIU 380 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: fifty three. Local ten did speak with a boy's mother 381 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: on Monday about how she and JoJo's father have been 382 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: in a contentious a custody battle. Ever since they split 383 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: up three years ago. She is begging for JoJo's safe return. 384 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm afraid, I'm terrified. I'm really broken. I just wish 385 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: that you will know that we're looking for him. Then 386 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: Mom Jeanette begins to lose hope as the days pass. 387 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: Let's go to our cut fifteen. When mom is at 388 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: the lowest point, I breakthrough emerges in the search. Days later, 389 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: police found a potential clue close to two thousand miles away, 390 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: this suv. Main State Police say the three may have 391 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: been in the suv. It was found in Littleton, Maine, 392 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: near the Canadian border. Conceptsion is working with private investigator 393 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: Joe Carrillo, who's worked thousands of missing persons cases. Well, 394 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: I think it's a very dangerous case. It's not the 395 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: run of the mill. And then the search for a 396 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: six year old boy in Florida is now linked to 397 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: Maine National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, says Jorge 398 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 1: Morales disappeared August twenty seventh in Miami. Police say an 399 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: abandoned vehicle and Littleton, Maine was found with items believed 400 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: to be related to him. Jojoe's mother says that her 401 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: son is on the autism spectrum and may have difficulty communicating. 402 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: Investigators believed that he was abducted by his father, Jorge 403 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 1: Morales and grandmother Lilian Morales. They both now faced felony charges. 404 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: You know, on the run with your mom and your 405 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: little boy. Jeanette accepts you on with me right now, Jeanette, 406 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: I just gotta ask, was your husband like this when 407 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: you married him? What pushed him off the deep end? No? No, no, 408 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: he was not. He lost his mind during the divorce. 409 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how he turned into this birthing. There's 410 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: a reason obviously, why the divorce, why we split up. 411 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: We couldn't eye to eye. He he was very obsessed 412 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: with things. I felt like a prisoner in my own 413 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: house and him, um be and my son became an 414 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: obsession of him. So we couldn't even go anywhere without him, 415 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: which was including um mom's get together with kids and 416 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: all of that. He just felt like um he had 417 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: to be present for all of it because he was 418 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: paranoid that nobody else could protect his son. And even 419 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: and we're talking about about insane stuff such as we 420 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: would change his diaper and he would come and change 421 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: it again because he was He was obsessed, obsessed in 422 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: a stick way, and he became such such a horrible 423 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: and miserable time for me and my son that then, 424 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,719 Speaker 1: and then I was miserable what my son could see it. 425 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: And that's when I decided to get divorce. Why would 426 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: he why would he want to rechange the baby's dipher? 427 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: I have no idea. I have no idea. He would 428 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: do stranger things too, sosha um. I would prepare the 429 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: food and he would reprepare the food because you know, 430 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: everything was were not good enough. I breast fed him 431 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: until he was a year. And when I stopped out 432 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: a year, he stopped talking to me because I was 433 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: monnetritioning my kid and stopped I should keep breathfeeding onto 434 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: he was two years old, three years old. Which it 435 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: was just obsession. It was an obsession with absolutely everything. Okay, 436 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: I just got to get this in my hair for 437 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: a moment. So you would cook supper, yes, and then 438 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: he would come in and recook supper. I can tell 439 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: you all hbl break loose if that happened after I 440 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: cook a whole meal. Okay, wait, give me an example 441 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: like what happened I've got to hear this. Yeah, I would. 442 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: I would make a plate of food for my son, 443 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, the little things that he would eat. What 444 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: would he eat rise? And he wouldn't let me cook 445 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: the beans because if I put this on our ganic 446 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: sting on it or something that was none ran by him, 447 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: he would get really upset. But what happened when he 448 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: got upset Janette and he would just basically, you know, 449 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: tow a tantrum like another kid. I felt like I 450 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: was waiting two kids. Okay, Kathleen Murphy, I guess is upsetting? 451 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: Is that sounds? I guess you've seen that in a 452 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: whole lot more. Yeah, it doesn't really matter in custody court, 453 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: where they're presuming that equal custody is best for children. 454 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: There literally are no trials with any evidence anymore as 455 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: the fitness of parents. Literally maybe two percent of the 456 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: cases are heard before the courts, and people raise issues 457 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: in the courts just rubber stamp custody. And I'm sure 458 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: that happened in Jeanette's case at the beginning. Well, the 459 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: thing I don't get is there are all these red 460 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: flags waving like like you know how the matador taunts 461 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: the bull with the red cape. It's just like that. 462 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: You see this happening, and no one did anything about it, 463 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: no matter how many times Jeanette tells the judge what's 464 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: going on. It ends up with dad violently kidnapping baby Jojo, 465 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: who is artistic and cannot tell anyone what's happening. And 466 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: then in the last hours we have an incredible break 467 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: in the case. Take a listen to our friends at 468 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: CBS four. Miami got a goal from the NBA today. 469 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: It was like grown four thirty or one pm, and 470 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: I THEBA isn't really called on my show, was that 471 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: he's really good or really buy some one? He said, 472 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: I have good news for you. I just you know why. 473 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: I was out on the floor and then I started 474 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: screaming and I got to speak to my sons rules 475 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: answer and say he needs me, and you know and 476 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: I love him so much. She was I thought my 477 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: son was gonna die. It was very hard to sleep, 478 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: It was very hard to eat. All I could think 479 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: about with him. But what was he doing if it 480 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: was okay if you know me so, if he was 481 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: asking for her for his mom and the security video 482 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: here is from when he was spotted in Maine with 483 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: his dad before they made their way to Canada, where 484 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: Yanette says he was spotted inside of a walmart. Somebody 485 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: saw something. They got the attention of the bleed and 486 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: that's how they got him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 487 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: straight out to Jeanette concepci on, this is a little Joe, 488 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: Joe's mom. I understand that tonight, tonight, You're going to 489 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: be reunited. Oh my god, n I say, this has 490 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: been search a roller coaster, but I tonight I get 491 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: to see him. I've been facetiming him. He's been asking 492 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: me where have I been? And then finally today it's 493 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: gonna be after ten pm. I's finally gonna get to hugging. 494 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: Is gonna hurt. You know. I cannot wait to smell him, 495 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: to see his little face and and he you know, 496 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: he tells me that he would see he was trying 497 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: to find me, my poor thing. He doesn't know what's 498 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: going on at all. Autism can be a blessing in disguise, 499 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: because he seems that he was on a vacation and 500 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: he's just got the vacation is over. You know, It's 501 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: it's amazing, it's amazing. The feeling that I have inside, 502 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: there's no word that I can use to point at it. 503 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: It's just so good. It's so good. Yes, Jeanette, I mean, 504 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: you and I've discussed this off air. Do you know 505 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: how rare it is that will get to report that 506 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,239 Speaker 1: a child has been found safe a lot? I know, 507 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: I know, Nancy, and I know I am possibly one 508 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: of the luckiest person And I've been blessed by God 509 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: so much and by so many prayers and so much 510 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: support from the community that I did not expect. I mean, 511 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: even social media has been working for the good this 512 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: time when he has just been amazing, amazing. I know, 513 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 1: I know cases don't get like this. I know, and 514 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: I know that if we were waiting longer before he 515 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: was seven, we would probably find him in heaven. So 516 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just so blessed right now, So blessed. Jeanette. 517 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: Why did you say if he had gone to a 518 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: seventh birthday, your husband would have killed him. That's what 519 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: I'm That's why he my son, will be repeating here 520 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: in my house, which was my biggest fear. He kept 521 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: saying that her from done and he had to go 522 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: to heaven. Before he was seven or eight. Although white, 523 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: he wouldn't meet Jesus. Okay, do I still have doctor 524 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: Plant with me? Doctor Plant? Did you hear that that 525 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: if if he didn't die and go to heaven before 526 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: age seven or eight, he would never get to see Christ. 527 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: You know, it's just horrific that we're in a situation 528 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: where someone can try and believe something is outrageous and 529 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: unsupported by any of the only of the reasonable religious 530 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: traditions out there to justify the horrific behavior. And it's 531 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of mind boggling, but unfortunately it can help 532 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: to propel someone to do a terribly egregious and murderous act. 533 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: With me. Is Arthor Thomas, a plant professor at Stanford University. 534 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: I want to go quickly to our twenty. This is 535 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: Trent Kelly at Local ten. Somebody called and somebody say something, 536 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: and I'm just so grateful for our person because it 537 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: just took that. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police taking George 538 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: and Lilium into custody while confirming Jojo was safe and 539 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: in good condition. His mother describing that phone call with 540 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: her son, the first time they've spoken in months, Well, 541 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: I say it was hey baby, and he goes he's 542 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: Mommy's mommy straight out to special guests joining us. In 543 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: addition to Jeanette Conceptcian, Joe Carrillo, the man behind the 544 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: recovery of baby Jojo. You can find him at leveragepi 545 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: dot com. Joe, tell me how the whole thing unfolded. Oh, well, 546 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: the recovery was amazing, Nancy. We were definitely and then 547 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: when I say we our group as well as law enforcement, 548 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: we're definitely going in the right direction. We had worked 549 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: numerous sightings that were coming into us to law enforcement, 550 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: and we went from being thirty days behind, we were 551 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: only two and a half hours by car. And the 552 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: important thing, Nancy, is to know that he stopped, he 553 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: settled down, He was building a cabin. He was also 554 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: shopping in places we knew he would go to to 555 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: get some special food, and we didn't stop. It's just that, 556 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, we were moving slowly, but we were in 557 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: the right direction and we would have found him. But 558 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: it took shows like yours and social media and television 559 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: and a good citizen to me. And it's what Janet said, 560 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, social media did a wonderful thing this time. Joe, 561 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: what do you mean by you knew who would be 562 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: shopping for special things? Like what? You know? A lot 563 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: of the things that we do is get into the 564 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: mind of this person and chase them that way. For example, 565 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: we found in the car in Maine that he left 566 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: behind a rare type of bread that he absolutely loved 567 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: and Janet says he can't live without. We knew that 568 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: that type of bread is only sold in Canada at walmarts, 569 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: so we started putting out a net in all the 570 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: Walmarts because we knew that he'd show up at a Walmart. 571 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: Now I don't know if that's what caused the tipster, 572 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: but something did. We don't have pybe do that information. 573 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: So we were chasing him because of his habits. For example, 574 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: he had two cats with them, although they haven't found 575 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: the cats. We put nets out at pet shops and 576 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: we were getting calls that we were checking up. He 577 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: loves pizza. There was some spottings at a pizza We 578 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: put nets out at the pizza parlors. And when I 579 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: say we, it was the RCMP, Miami, dade Us and 580 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: the FBI. In this case, everybody worked together and the 581 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: results is a true miracle because it's like you say, Nancy, 582 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: we don't get these outcomes in these type of cases. 583 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: It just doesn't happen. And I told Janet this morning, 584 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: because it's the first time she could hear it, that 585 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: when I was talking to the folks that were working this, 586 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: nobody believed that they were alive. And my group cannot 587 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 1: work a case that way when it involves a six 588 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: year old child. I knew that they were going to 589 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: be found alive. He didn't go through all this trouble 590 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: not to be and we were all the right path 591 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: and it took a lot of mind and a lot 592 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: of work jointly, and at the end, a good citizen 593 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: of Canada has to know that he saved a child's life. 594 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 1: Nothing short of saving the child's life. Joe Carrillo, I've 595 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: just got to ask you. It's the father that loves 596 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: the special bread, ma'am. What kind of bread is it? 597 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: I've got to know what is it? Janet can answer that. 598 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: I don't recall right now, Jeanette, what is the bread? 599 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,919 Speaker 1: What is it? I don't remember the name, but it's 600 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: a it's a raw bread that it's that that's frozen. 601 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: And because he has life quarters in it. I think 602 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: I understand why not everybody carries that. Okay, what is 603 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: the first thing you're gonna do when you see Jojo tonight, 604 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: God Willing, I'm gonna hug him. I'm gonna smell I'm 605 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: gonna smell him completely from head to talk. I just 606 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: want to hug him, soban And we're already planning on cruises, voccasions, 607 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: Disney and all the things that he loved. And we're 608 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: already planning on having his favorite food, and it's gonna 609 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: be whatever he wants. At least for the first week. 610 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: He's gonna feel like a superstar. You know. I'm just 611 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: I'm just in amazement with this wonderful, wonderful needs And 612 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: please please let us know soon about your happy reunion. 613 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: All I can say is praise God and thank goodness 614 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: you acted the way you did as quickly as you did, Jeanette, 615 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: and thank Heaven for Joe Carrillo. Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye, 616 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: f