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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up, everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to Politics and iHeart podcast

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Speaker 2: and Unbothered Network production.

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Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 2: So this week we're going to have a conversation about

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest wedge issues in America immigration Now only,

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Speaker 2: let's have this conversation through the lens of basketball. On

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Speaker 2: the first night in the NBA this season, a record

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Speaker 2: tying one hundred and twenty five international players from a

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Speaker 2: record tyme forty three countries were on opening night rosters.

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Speaker 2: This is the result of the NBA's global popularity, which

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Speaker 2: has been decades in the making. But as the NBA's

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Speaker 2: international reach continues to expand, in the NBA game itself

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Speaker 2: has taken on more of an international feel. Not everybody

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Speaker 2: is happy about it.

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Speaker 3: What changes can the league make to bring more competitive

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Speaker 3: balance to both sides of the ball.

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Speaker 4: I know what they can do.

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Speaker 3: Get rid of all the Europeans.

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Speaker 4: Look, you just said it.

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Speaker 5: You just said it.

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Speaker 3: You go to college and learn defense college and Europeans

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Speaker 3: go to I'm with you know, I just like it.

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Speaker 3: Don't go to college. They have no athletics. Give something,

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Speaker 3: come over, no athleticism.

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Speaker 5: They all come over.

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Speaker 3: They have no athleticism, right, They have no speed, no

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Speaker 3: jumping ability. They are a liability on defense. There's one

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty euros in the league today. Name the

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Speaker 3: top ten defenders. No, I'm not right, just to Rudy

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Speaker 3: Goldberg in Greek de free. Other than that, they're just

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Speaker 3: offensive players.

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Speaker 4: They're not defensive players. Right.

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Speaker 3: So the NBA took away aggression. They took away aggression

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Speaker 3: to open up.

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Speaker 4: The year rod league.

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Speaker 3: When they first started to get in here, it was

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Speaker 3: too rough for them and so they didn't make it.

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Speaker 4: They didn't make it right.

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Speaker 3: So eventually they softened the rule. They just soften the

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Speaker 3: rules for the Americans. They softened the rules to open

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Speaker 3: it up international.

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Speaker 4: So when they're saying.

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Speaker 3: The Euros that's going to run the league in the

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Speaker 3: next five years, why do you think that more threes

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Speaker 3: pass and come? This is not our league. This is

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Speaker 3: not the American style. This is the euro style.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like Gilbert Arenas supports mass deportation. Now Gilbert's wild

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theory aside, because he.

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Speaker 1: Must have forgot that.

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Speaker 2: The league eliminated handschecking in two thousand and four, the

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Speaker 2: first of many rule changes that would happen to benefit

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Speaker 2: offensive players. They did that because fans complained that the

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Speaker 2: game was too physical and they basically got tired of

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Speaker 2: seeing Big ten basketball at the NBA level. I went

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Speaker 2: to a Big ten school, I can say that. But

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Speaker 2: the surge of international players dominating in the NBA is

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Speaker 2: raising some compelling questions about the state of American basketball.

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Speaker 2: Are international players now better equipped and more prepared for

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Speaker 2: NBA's success because their systems of development is perhaps better

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Speaker 2: than the American systems of development, namely AAU through high school.

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Speaker 1: And college basketball.

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Speaker 2: I'll unpack all of that in a moment, but first

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Speaker 2: a history lesson. In nineteen seventy eight, the NBA played

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Speaker 2: its first international exhibition game in Israel. It was the

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Speaker 2: then Washington Bullets against the Maccabees Tel Aviv, a team

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Speaker 2: that had just won the European Cup by beating a

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Speaker 2: top tier Italian team. The Bullets, however, were just three

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Speaker 2: months removed from beating Seattle for the NBA Championships. Now,

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Speaker 2: not to give them an excuse, but the Bullets were

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Speaker 2: still in celebration mode. They were out of shape because

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Speaker 2: back then, to quote Bernie Mack, when players took a

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Speaker 2: break they broke played by international rules. They allowed zone defense,

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Speaker 2: which was then illegal in the NBA. The Maccabees beat

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Speaker 2: the defending champions ninety eight to ninety seven. Now, the

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Speaker 2: international loss was such an anomaly for the Americans that

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Speaker 2: the Bullets players they weren't even mad.

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Speaker 1: The legendary was unsealed.

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Speaker 2: The captain of the Bullets said after the game, I

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Speaker 2: came to Israel on vacation to enjoy myself. The game

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Speaker 2: really was not what this trip was all about. Now,

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Speaker 2: on the world stage, America largely has been known as

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Speaker 2: having the best brand of basketball in the world, even

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Speaker 2: before the United States started sending NBA players to represent

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Speaker 2: the country at the Olympics. The US won the gold

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Speaker 2: medal with college players and nine of the first twelve Olympics,

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Speaker 2: But at the nineteen seventy two Olympics in Moscow, the

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Speaker 2: United States started showing signs it was vulnerable. At that point,

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Speaker 2: Team USA have won sixty four straight games in Olympic

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Speaker 2: basketball competition, but in seventy two, the Soviets handed America

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Speaker 2: a stunning, albeit extremely controversial defeat, and the final seconds

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Speaker 2: of the gold medal game.

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Speaker 1: Well confusion range.

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Speaker 3: But the United States still.

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Speaker 1: They have that one point late fifty forty nine as

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Speaker 1: a result of two pressure.

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Speaker 2: Pack foul shots by Duck Collins Illinois State.

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Speaker 5: Now the clock shows three seconds.

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Speaker 2: There is time for the Russians to go to their

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Speaker 2: big man, Alexander Bellout.

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Speaker 5: They're going to try Alexander bell off between two America

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Speaker 5: defender I girl with it for unbella and the Russian

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Speaker 5: team has bob y'all Axandrabella. At this time that is over.

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Speaker 2: It was Team USA's first Olympic loss ever. The loss

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Speaker 2: stunk so badly that the US team refused to accept

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Speaker 2: their silver medals out of protests. While Team USA recovered

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Speaker 2: from the loss to the Soviets to win gold in

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Speaker 2: seventy six, something shifted in the landscape. Team USA did

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Speaker 2: not compete in the eighty Olympics in Moscow because then

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Speaker 2: President Jimmy Carter led an international boycott of the games

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Speaker 2: to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. And while in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four America predictably won gold again, the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty eight team lost to its nemesis again, but unlike

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two, this time the Soviets left no

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Speaker 2: doubt that they were the superior team.

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Speaker 5: The world that certainly caught up with the United States

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Speaker 5: in this game. No longer does the US dominate as

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Speaker 5: they did for so much of these Olympic Games.

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Speaker 2: A year after that loss, FIBA made the decision to

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Speaker 2: allow countries to use professional players to field their Olympic

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Speaker 2: basketball teams. But here's the irony. Despite suffering some gold

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Speaker 2: medal losses, the United States actually voted against this change,

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Speaker 2: voting against our own best interests. There's a metaphor in

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Speaker 2: there somewhere, but I'm gonna leave that one alone. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, America sent is version of the Avengers

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Speaker 2: to the Olympics, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley,

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Speaker 2: Scottie Pippen, Clyde Drexler, Patrick Ewing, Chris Mullen, David Robinson,

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Speaker 2: Christian Laitner, and John Stockland. Now y'all know Dale will

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Speaker 2: Isaiah Thomas should have been on that team, And no,

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Speaker 2: I don't acknowledge Carl Malone. I'm gonna let y'all google

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Speaker 2: that way. I'm petty like that. The nineteen ninety two

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Speaker 2: Dream Team molly wopped everybody team USA's average margin of

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Speaker 2: victory was thirty one points. But most importantly, that team

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Speaker 2: established a pathway for the NBA to expand its reach worldwide,

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Speaker 2: which included further opening the door for international players to

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Speaker 2: make their way to the NBA.

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Speaker 5: We opened up the game to the world.

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Speaker 4: So that's why all these guys are playing.

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Speaker 5: In the NBA today. The Dream gam is responsible for that.

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Speaker 2: But what Magic Johnson probably couldn't anticipate is that the

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Speaker 2: young international players that were once inspired by the Dream

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Speaker 2: Team wouldn't just stop it just pursuing a dream NBA career.

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Speaker 2: They would one day stage a real takeover of American

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Speaker 2: basketball altogether.

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Speaker 6: You know, to be completely honest with you, I had

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Speaker 6: the opportunity to be a part of USA Basketball for

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Speaker 6: two years I think it was twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 6: and being an assistant coach for those teams, I'm surrounded

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Speaker 6: by the best young talent in America, you know, the

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Speaker 6: k kind of hands to Jason Tatums having mostly Scotty Bars,

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Speaker 6: Jayalen Green, Jalous.

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Speaker 4: You know, list goes on to Jayalen Bronston.

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Speaker 6: The list goes on and on, And I had an

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Speaker 6: opportunity to see firsthand how the game was catching up, right,

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Speaker 6: There wasn't. There's always been a big gap between the

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Speaker 6: United States and the rest of the country, and a

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Speaker 6: lot of that was a large part because of athleticism. Well,

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Speaker 6: they bridged the gap because of their fundament in their

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Speaker 6: work ethic and their development. So over here, a lot

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Speaker 6: of times our young kids at the developmental league such

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Speaker 6: as the AAUS and the high schools, and even the

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Speaker 6: lot of years in middle school, it seems as if

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Speaker 6: they're more concerned with what can I do if I

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Speaker 6: have the ball in my hands? So everyone is every

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Speaker 6: workout is a one four flat, well one four flats

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Speaker 6: for the Allen Ivers's and Gilbert Arenases and those kind

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Speaker 6: of guys of the world, right, and so how can

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Speaker 6: you become a star in your own role?

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Speaker 4: And what happens?

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Speaker 6: I think my personal opinion is American born citizens don't

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Speaker 6: know what to do when the basketball is not in

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Speaker 6: their hands anymore. They don't know how to move without it,

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Speaker 6: they don't know how to play without it. And the

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Speaker 6: reality is, in a forty eight minute game in the NBA,

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Speaker 6: you're going to spend forty five minutes without the ball

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Speaker 6: in your hands.

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Speaker 4: So now what do you do?

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Speaker 6: And we haven't mastered that yet through our developmental leagues

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Speaker 6: and up and coming leagues, and they have. I had

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Speaker 6: the opportunity to play basketball overseas for seven years, and

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Speaker 6: one thing I used to notice was that they work

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Speaker 6: out three times a day and their skill training is

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Speaker 6: vastly different from ours.

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Speaker 4: Our skill training is going in the.

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Speaker 6: Gym and working on what we have quote unquote our

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Speaker 6: bag and imitating some of the moves that we've seen

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Speaker 6: on Sports Center or something that's going to get your

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Speaker 6: Instagram real with some more likes and clicks individually shooting,

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Speaker 6: and then teamwork and playing without the basketball. And so

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Speaker 6: now you have none American born citizens. That's pretty much

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Speaker 6: taken over the leave with the Lucas and even like

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Speaker 6: Joe Embiid, he wasn't, you know, an American citizen, and

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Speaker 6: then obviously Joker, Jihannis and Liszt is going to continue

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Speaker 6: to grow until we do something.

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Speaker 4: About the grassroots level of our basketball development.

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Speaker 2: That was Lavelle Molton, the head men's basketball coach at

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Speaker 2: North Carolina Central University, and what he's saying is supported

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Speaker 2: by some fascinating results. The last six MVP awards have

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Speaker 2: gone to an international player. Nine international players played in

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Speaker 2: the NBA All Star Game, including six that were starters,

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Speaker 2: and given the way Luka Doncic, Shay Gilgers, Alexander and

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Speaker 2: Nikola Jokic are playing so far this season, and international

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Speaker 2: player winning another MVP is more than possible.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: The NBA couldn't be happier about this surging European dominance

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Speaker 2: because it's had a tremendous impact on the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: The NBA currently earns six hundred and fifty million dollars

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Speaker 2: per year in media rights revenue outside of the United States,

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Speaker 2: and seventy five percent of the NBA's social media followers

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Speaker 2: aren't on you as soil, and with an extraordinary player

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Speaker 2: like Victor Winbinyama seemingly on his way to start them,

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Speaker 2: the demand from abroad to see international players compete only

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Speaker 2: will increase, but as the skill level of European players

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Speaker 2: continues to get better, people like coach Moten believe the

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Speaker 2: skills of American players, especially at the youth level, are

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Speaker 2: headed in the opposite direction, and.

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Speaker 4: So basketball over he has become the new hustle.

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Speaker 6: Right, everybody's a skill training that right, and parents don't

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Speaker 6: know any better. They're just putting their kids under the

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Speaker 6: watchful eye of a guy that's making them go in

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Speaker 6: and out of cone or just google some drills off

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Speaker 6: of YouTube, charging them forty five dollars an hour, and

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Speaker 6: parents just don't know, right. And so the other thing

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Speaker 6: that's lacking the development is there was a time where

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Speaker 6: the drug dealers sponsored the teams. Now the drug dealers

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Speaker 6: are no, Like, what in the world is going on

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Speaker 6: out here now?

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Speaker 2: I don't mean to make it sound like there aren't

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Speaker 2: young American basketball players dominating in the NBA. Anthony Edwards,

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Speaker 2: Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker,

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Speaker 2: those guys are all pretty damn good. But in this

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Speaker 2: hyper capitalistic American society, the greed permeating youth basketball is

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Speaker 2: negatively impacting youth basketball development, and therefore the superstar pipeline

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Speaker 2: doesn't look the same. Five years ago, my former ESPN

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Speaker 2: colleague Baxter Holmes wrote a fascinating story about how they

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Speaker 2: increased emphasis on specialization and the grind of the AAU

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Speaker 2: circuit are collectively damaging the health of young basketball prospects.

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Speaker 2: According to research, young American basketball players are experiencing a

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Speaker 2: much higher rate of injury than European players because while

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Speaker 2: international players start playing with professionals at a young age,

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Speaker 2: they don't play in nearly as many games as their

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Speaker 2: American counterparts.

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Speaker 1: For example, Zion.

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Speaker 2: Williamson and Jah Morant went one to two in the

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen NBA draft, and LaMelo Ball went third in

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Speaker 2: the draft the following year. Between the three of them,

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Speaker 2: they've missed almost five hundred games due to injuries. Now,

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Speaker 2: what did they all have in common extensively competing in AAU. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: Luka Dancic, who started playing professionally when he was thirteen

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Speaker 2: and is in his seventh NBA season, He's played in

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Speaker 2: an average of sixty six regular season games per year.

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Speaker 2: Jokic is averaging seventy five games, and Yannis seventy two. Now,

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Speaker 2: this isn't to say that every foreign player is a

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Speaker 2: picture of health, but Americans playing professional schedules as they're

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Speaker 2: still developing can't be good. But with so much money

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Speaker 2: and exposure on the line, coach Moten believes the development

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Speaker 2: of young American players is no longer a priority.

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Speaker 6: You know, AAU has always been beneficial because it showcases

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Speaker 6: the top. But I think it's become extremely toxic because

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Speaker 6: there's no substance to it.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 6: Part of basketball is being able to compete at a

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Speaker 6: high level every possession. But these kids aren't competing anymore

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Speaker 6: because of AAU. If you lose at nine o'clock, then

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Speaker 6: you play again at twelve o'clock, And if you lose

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Speaker 6: at twelve o'clock, then you play again at four fifteen.

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Speaker 6: If you lose again, then you play the following weekend

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Speaker 6: with another team. Right, and so the art of the

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Speaker 6: competition has gone. When I grew up, and I hate

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Speaker 6: to be that guy when I like, I don't want

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Speaker 6: to be that guy. But our AAU team in North Carolina,

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Speaker 6: there was only one AAU team in the city that

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Speaker 6: I was in Raleigh, North Carolina, and we were called

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Speaker 6: the Raleigh Stars, and we had to be selected. It

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Speaker 6: was myself and Jerry Stackhouse and guys like that.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 6: But what happened is AU has become super saturated. Right,

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Speaker 6: People who fathers wasn't saw their children wasn't good enough

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Speaker 6: to make a team, they went out and started their

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Speaker 6: own AAU team. And now it's become nothing but a

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Speaker 6: money graph. Right, So AAU at his core hasn't served

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Speaker 6: this initial purpose to develop the talent and showcase the talent.

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Speaker 4: It's now a money grap.

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Speaker 6: You go to any AAU tournament in the country and

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Speaker 6: parking is fifty dollars for the weekend entry feeous seventy

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Speaker 6: five dollars. Right, gatorays are eight dollars. Like, it's just

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Speaker 6: a money grap. It's just a hustle. Everyone that's connected

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Speaker 6: to this game are now using it to hustle it

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Speaker 6: instead of to develop the talent and simply strictly care

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Speaker 6: about these kids and their overall development. And that's what

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Speaker 6: AAU used to be. And somehow or another, we got away

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Speaker 6: from that, and it's coming back to bidens. And now

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Speaker 6: we got to send a thirty six year old Kevin

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Speaker 6: Durant and a forty year old Lebron James to the

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Speaker 6: Olympics and Steph Curry to steal save us instead of

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Speaker 6: having twenty two to twenty three year olds go compete

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Speaker 6: for our country.

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Speaker 2: While I'm certainly not suggesting American basketball players are about

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Speaker 2: to go the way of the dinosaur, were fast approaching

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Speaker 2: the time where America isn't going to enter every Olympics

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Speaker 2: as the best team, and perhaps we should also get

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Speaker 2: used to the fact that the title of best player

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Speaker 2: in the world isn't an American birthright.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamelle Hill and I approved this message.

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Speaker 2: Up next, on politics, I'm going to continue this conversation

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Speaker 2: about the state of American basketball with the executive director

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Speaker 2: of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. He also was

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Speaker 2: a former head coach at Brown and Oregon State, and

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Speaker 2: he is host of a podcast called Ways to Win

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Speaker 2: with legendary coach John Calla PARTI and one more important note.

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Speaker 2: He's the older brother of former First Lady Michelle Obama.

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Speaker 2: Coming up next on politics, Craig Robinson. Well, Craig, I

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Speaker 2: want to just start by thanking you for joining me.

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Speaker 2: I know you're a very busy person, and it's because

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Speaker 2: I adore you so much and love so many of

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Speaker 2: the things that you talk about, just from a leadership

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Speaker 2: stateandpoint some of the principals you share. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: start this podcast by asking you what is your favorite

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Speaker 2: sports memory?

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Speaker 5: Ooh, So I have been fortunate enough to have so

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Speaker 5: many great sports memories. I mean, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm a Chicagoan, so you know the feeling when, when,

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Speaker 5: when the when the Bears won their first when their

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Speaker 5: Super Bowl when I was still living there, the Bulls

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Speaker 5: first couple of championships. I loved the Cubs winning the

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Speaker 5: World Series. And then on a personal note, just having

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Speaker 5: played basketball my whole life, I mean, we had IVY

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Speaker 5: League championships when I was at Princeton. One of my

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Speaker 5: favorite memories after playing at Princeton and professionally and then

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Speaker 5: working some friends of mine, John Rodgers from Aerial Capital Management,

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Speaker 5: Arnie Duncan who was the Secretary of Education, Kit Miller

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Speaker 5: who was another Princeton basketball player, a guy named Eric

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Speaker 5: Kubi who was our friend from Chicago, played competitive three

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Speaker 5: on three and ended up winning the World three on

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Speaker 5: three championship. So we were the precursor to this three

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Speaker 5: on three foba Olympic stuff. We would have been an

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Speaker 5: Olympic team, that's how good we were. But my favorite

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Speaker 5: memory wasn't really a basketball a sports memory. It was

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Speaker 5: an event memory. So think back to Barack getting inaugurated

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Speaker 5: the first time. So you know, the election happens in November,

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Speaker 5: but the inauguration doesn't happen until January, so that's right

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Speaker 5: in the middle of basketball season. I met Oregon State

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Speaker 5: coaching and my family, and I fly from Oregon to

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Speaker 5: d C to go to the inauguration and all the ceremonies.

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Speaker 5: But we're playing Cal on Thursday, and the inauguration for

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Speaker 5: some reasons, on a Tuesday. Right, it's not even on

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Speaker 5: the weekend, so I can make it and back from

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Speaker 5: DC to the Bay Area. The team practices without me.

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Speaker 5: My assistant coaches do a great job. I'm thinking there's

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Speaker 5: no way we could win this game. We're playing at Cal.

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Speaker 5: They were good then. And I get there in time

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Speaker 5: to get to the bus to go to the arena,

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Speaker 5: and I go in the back way as you always do.

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Speaker 5: The team's warming up. I'm in the locker room trying

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Speaker 5: to drop a play. I don't know what to say

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Speaker 5: to the team, right, I'm emotional. I'm worried about them

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Speaker 5: because I wasn't there. And the team goes up to

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Speaker 5: warm up, and you know, the coaches don't come out

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Speaker 5: till about three minutes before the game starts. And I

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Speaker 5: come out and all of a sudden, the crowd stands

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Speaker 5: up and there is a roar of standing ovation applause,

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Speaker 5: and I know it's because a Baraka Michelle. But the

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Speaker 5: warmth that I felt from that crowd, Jamelle, I was

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Speaker 5: almost a blubbering idiot before the start of the game

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Speaker 5: in the hubble, I had to have the guy stand

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Speaker 5: around me. I was so emotional and I said, look, guys,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what to say. I said, I want

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Speaker 5: to win this game badly, but I don't have much

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Speaker 5: for you. I mean you could still hear it in

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Speaker 5: my voice, and I didn't know what to say.

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Speaker 4: Do you know?

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Speaker 5: They went out and played an almost perfect game for

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Speaker 5: a team that was sort of didn't have their coach there.

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Speaker 5: And it's a tribute to my staff, It's a tribute

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Speaker 5: to them, It's a tribute to the people at CAL,

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Speaker 5: you know. I mean they were rooting for their team, right,

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Speaker 5: but they really showed some love for me that day.

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Speaker 5: That has to be at the top of my list

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Speaker 5: of greatest sports memories. And I'll never forget it. And

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Speaker 5: I mean, to this day, Cal holds a warm place

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Speaker 5: my heart. Right Like when I was when I was

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Speaker 5: younger and thinking about colleges, I would have never thought

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Speaker 5: to go to CAL. I wish I had known about it,

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Speaker 5: and because I might have applied, but it was a

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Speaker 5: great memory.

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Speaker 2: Now, was there any small part of you that said,

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Speaker 2: day I wasn't here and they played flawlessly, what is happening?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know what it says is that you don't

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Speaker 5: win games the day of. It's all the work you

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Speaker 5: put in before you get there. And it was great

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Speaker 5: to see that they executed. Now, once we got into

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Speaker 5: the game, you know, I got back to my normal self.

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Speaker 5: But I mean the way they started that game, they

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Speaker 5: were just on point, and it was as if they

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Speaker 5: wanted to show me that they weren't going to they

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Speaker 5: weren't going to let themselves down, but they weren't going

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Speaker 5: to let me down because because they knew that I

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Speaker 5: wasn't missing in action, I had to I had to go.

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Speaker 5: There was something bigger at stake here. But yet, Jamelle,

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Speaker 5: you are right. You know a lot of coaches are replaceable.

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Speaker 5: They think they're irreplaceable, but they're replaceable.

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Speaker 2: I know the story, but I know there might be

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Speaker 2: some listeners right now who don't know the story. So

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Speaker 2: let's talk about your sports origin story. How did you

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Speaker 2: get involved in playing basketball?

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Speaker 5: Well, I'm old enough to be back in the day

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Speaker 5: where there wasn't all this youth sports right, and I

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Speaker 5: got involved in basketball just as a way of My

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Speaker 5: dad would come home from work and want us to

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Speaker 5: be out of the house, and he was a recreation guy.

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Speaker 5: Even though he was handicapped. He was outside we'd be

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Speaker 5: playing catch. And when I say we, my sister too.

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Speaker 5: My sister and I were interchangeable, so we because she

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Speaker 5: was the only one I had to play with other

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Speaker 5: than my dad, and my mom would join in too,

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Speaker 5: So we would play the sports that were available, and

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Speaker 5: baseball was my first sport. I wanted to be a

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Speaker 5: football player, and basketball was act lead. My third sport,

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Speaker 5: a tie with hockey, because I will you know, being

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Speaker 5: from Detroit, hockey big was big in Chicago. They used

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Speaker 5: to freeze all the parks in the winter time and

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Speaker 5: you could go skate and we lived right down the

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Speaker 5: street from a park, so we played hockey too. And

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Speaker 5: we would go on vacation. We went to a place

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Speaker 5: in Michigan, white Cloud, Michigan called Duke Do you know,

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Speaker 5: Duke's Happy Holiday Resort. It might not been there when

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00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 5: you came along, but it was in white Cloud. It

429
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Speaker 5: was one of these It looked like a motel, but

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Speaker 5: we thought coming from Chicago. We thought it was the

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Speaker 5: Ritz Carlton. It had a pool, it had a game room,

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Speaker 5: and it had a tennis court and basketball court. And

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Speaker 5: that was when my dad started teaching me the game

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Speaker 5: of basketball. That's how I got started playing. And I

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Speaker 5: didn't play organized basketball till I was about eleven or

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Speaker 5: twelve years old, like my kids all started when they

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Speaker 5: were three or four. And I played at the at

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Speaker 5: the youth level, AAU and sort of wreck ball at

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Speaker 5: the y m c A and AAU. Then was you

440
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 5: went to one tournament of summer and different now it's

441
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 5: so different now. Yeah, and then I played in high

442
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 5: school and got recruited to go to Princeton.

443
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: Now, you know, maybe some people don't know this, perhaps

444
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: they were just, you know, hatched from an alien pod.

445
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 2: But of course Greg's sister is a former First Lady

446
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: Michelle Obama. You mentioned her as an athlete, right, What

447
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: kind of athlete was Michelle?

448
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 5: So she was She was really really good and unfortunately

449
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 5: back then, there weren't a lot of sports for women

450
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 5: and girls at the time. But she could play every

451
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 5: sport I played. She could play soft she played baseball, softball, basketball,

452
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 5: and she ran track. We went to a day camp

453
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 5: in Chicago at Rainbow Beach, and she would win all

454
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 5: the ribbons for So she was fast athletic, and she

455
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 5: had the spirit of an athlete, right, so she was

456
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 5: trying to win. She wasn't just out there for exercise, right,

457
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 5: And so she was a really good athlete. And I

458
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 5: always tell people part of the reason why I ended

459
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 5: up being a good athlete was because I had her

460
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 5: a practice with all the time. Because my dad, like

461
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 5: I mentioned, he had MS from the time I was

462
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 5: could remember, he walked with a with a limp and

463
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 5: it got progressively worse so he couldn't run. So my

464
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 5: sister did all the running for him. And my mom

465
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 5: was out there too, but not as much. So she

466
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 5: was the reason that kept me going when I didn't

467
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 5: have anybody to play with. So and unfortunate, I say, unfortunately,

468
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 5: she sort of passed all this when she went to

469
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 5: high school. Her athletic career pretty much ended because you know,

470
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 5: she didn't like how uncompetitive the teams were then. And

471
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 5: she also I also she she'll she'll say she doesn't

472
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 5: agree with me on this, but my sister didn't enjoy

473
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 5: people having to lose, not just her losing. She didn't

474
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 5: like the idea of making someone else feel bad because

475
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 5: she beat the daylights out of them. And as you know,

476
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 5: we competitors, we love that feeling, right, We love that it.

477
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 5: Like I hear you talk about playing spades with your friends,

478
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 5: That's how I am. The best part of spades is

479
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 5: the other person losing. The other person loses more fun

480
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 5: than me would it.

481
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: I thought this was known, but.

482
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 5: But she so. She she'll disagree with me when I

483
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 5: say that, but she's really she's really very compassionate that way.

484
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: Now, So when you all were, you know, kind of

485
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: playing against one another, be honest, often did she get

486
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: the best of you?

487
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 5: Oh? So, now you this is here's where you get

488
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 5: Maryann and Fraser Robinsons first life lessons to me, some

489
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 5: of the first life lessons. So it got to be

490
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,959
Speaker 5: no matter what we were doing, whether it was a

491
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 5: board game or we were playing with our toys, or

492
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 5: we were doing something in sports, it got to a

493
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 5: point where she could not beat me in anything, and

494
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 5: my father pulled me aside. Is like, you're gonna lose

495
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 5: your partner in crime if you keep dominating the game.

496
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 5: You gotta point shave. Sometimes you gotta let her win

497
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 5: so that she'll keep playing. And you know, Jamelle, just

498
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 5: think about that. Just think about now. My dad was

499
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 5: he was helping me out, but he was helping her

500
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 5: out too, or I said that backwards. He was helping

501
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 5: her out, but he was really helping me out. It

502
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 5: was it was sort of the first lessons of being empathetic.

503
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 5: And he said, you can win every game and enjoy

504
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 5: her losing, but she won't play with you, and he

505
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 5: was right. And so every now and then I would

506
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 5: make I would point shave and she'd win and I'd

507
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 5: be like, oh god, I can't believe you beat me

508
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 5: on this, and I played it up and uh. And

509
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 5: then my mom was like, get you can't be too

510
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 5: much of a hammer. She's gonna figure it out. But she,

511
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 5: of course, because I'm twenty months older than her, and

512
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 5: most of the time we were playing physical sports. You

513
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 5: could see I could be more physical than she could.

514
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 5: But it was it was really every now and then

515
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 5: she went like, in board games, I didn't have to

516
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 5: point shape because it's just the luck of the game.

517
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 5: She would be as good as I was. And we

518
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 5: played everything. We played Monopoly, we played this game called

519
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 5: Hands down. We played all sorts of games the four

520
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 5: of us did, so she got her share of real

521
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 5: winning without without without us helping her.

522
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: You know what, that next time I lose to my

523
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: husband and golf, I'm gonna tell him that I'm be like,

524
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to make sure I keep yourself

525
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: esteem high. So that's why I lost. So you just

526
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 2: gave me the perfect perspective and to go with the

527
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: perfect narrative to sit with him the next time we're

528
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: on the golf court.

529
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, because see, if you end up beating him too much,

530
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 5: he's going to start coming up with reasons why y'all

531
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 5: can play together.

532
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: No, I think we're both super competitive, so I don't

533
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: think you have to worry about that with us and place.

534
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 2: We started golfing at the same time, and I think

535
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: that has been really helpful with that. But we're both

536
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: you know, we both pay sports in high school and

537
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: so like that competitive fire.

538
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: Ain't no letting anybody win anything in our house.

539
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

540
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I now, at what point, as you were

541
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 2: developing as an athlete, did you realize you were a

542
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: special player or maybe had a little bit more talent

543
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: than your peers.

544
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 5: Man, I wish I could say it was early, but

545
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 5: it was not right. I was always a late bloomer,

546
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 5: you know, I didn't I was. I was. So I

547
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 5: played what was called biddy basketball at the time. I'm

548
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 5: in seventh and eighth grade, and you couldn't be taller

549
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 5: than five six. So I was able to play that

550
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 5: till about the beginning of my eighth grade year, and

551
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 5: then I grew to about five eight five nine, and

552
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 5: I couldn't play anymore. So going into high school, I

553
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 5: was probably six feet tall, and when I graduated from

554
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 5: high school, I was six' four and then by the

555
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 5: TIME i was done, GROWING i was about six seven

556
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 5: and SO i was never the best player until about

557
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 5: my senior year in high. School but back, then you,

558
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 5: know at least in our, household we weren't banking on

559
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 5: basketball do anything but be extracurricular. Activity SO i got

560
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 5: good grades because my family emphasized doing your, best and

561
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 5: in our, house doing your best was getting a's and.

562
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 5: B's that if you didn't get, b's you had to

563
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 5: answer for whether or not you did your. Best and

564
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 5: it was the Best jedi mind trick my parents ever,

565
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 5: did because you knew when you didn't do your, best

566
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 5: because every time you did your, best you got. Aids

567
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 5: so we were looking at basketball that way UNTIL i

568
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 5: went to this camp Called athletes For Better education and

569
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 5: it was out Of, Whitewater, wisconsin and it was the

570
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 5: precursor to what we now know as the Nike Y

571
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 5: All American. Camp the people who started that camp ended

572
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 5: up blossoming that into the Nike Y'all American, camp and

573
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 5: they invited the best players from The, midwest The chicago

574
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 5: area to play at a. Camp AND i was on

575
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 5: a team With Darryl, walker who ended up playing in THE.

576
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 5: Nba went To Corlis High school In. CHICAGO i went

577
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 5: To Mount. Carmel we were on the same team and

578
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 5: we won the. Championship THEN i started hearing from teams

579
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 5: AND i didn't even know you would hear from. Colleges

580
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 5: it never crossed my mind that people recruited first. College

581
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 5: and that was WHEN i, realized, oh Maybe i'm pretty

582
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 5: good at this and it's, Amazing. Jamelle that was WHEN

583
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 5: i realized how much confident plays into being a professional

584
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: or being a being really good at what you. Do

585
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 5: we were always taught to be, Humble i'm sure you

586
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 5: know growing up on The South side Of, chicago black,

587
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 5: family you had to if you were a black male. Too,

588
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 5: see my parents raised me to be, Humble they raised

589
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 5: my sister to be have a big, mouth. Right it

590
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 5: was really it's. Amazing we talk about in our family

591
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 5: all the. Time it's because for men had you can't

592
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 5: be too, uppity you can't be too, braggadocious you can't

593
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 5: be too, arrogant and women had to be able to

594
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 5: advocate for themselves. Loudly AND i could see it in my,

595
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 5: sister AND i used to always, think, MAN i WISH

596
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 5: i could say to some of the things she says

597
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 5: to her, teachers you. Know but that was WHEN i

598
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 5: realized confidence is part of this whole life. Experience and

599
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 5: SO i would say probably the end of my high school.

600
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 5: CAREER i, realized ONCE i started getting, recruited Maybe i'm

601
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 5: pretty good at. This but never DID i THINK i

602
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 5: get drafted or be able to play, overseas or be

603
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 5: being able to play, professionally you, know not at. ALL

604
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 5: i was using it as a means to an, end

605
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 5: and that was, education get a good, education because neither

606
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 5: of my parents went to.

607
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: College what's really fascinating about your life is Like you've

608
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: made a lot of very dramatic career pivots or you,

609
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: know in your, life and one of the first ones

610
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: that you made was going as you, mentioned your professional.

611
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: Career you went to THE, nba you played, overseas and

612
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: then you just left that to do, finance, right and

613
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: what was the reason that you, decided, hey or how

614
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: did you KNOW i should ask that it was time

615
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: for you to stop playing.

616
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 5: Basketball so it was relatively easy for me, because as you,

617
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 5: MENTIONED i got drafted into THE. NBA i got drafted

618
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 5: by the Six ers when they won at the year

619
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 5: after they won the, championship so they had one red

620
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 5: room for one contract and it was the number one draft,

621
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 5: Pick Leo, rautins and he AND i played the same,

622
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 5: position SO i could see the writing on the. Wall

623
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 5: and that was WHEN i was, like, man even if

624
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 5: you get, here it's so hard to get. Here and

625
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 5: THEN i went overseas and. PLAYED i was fortunate enough

626
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 5: to be able to play a couple of years over,

627
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 5: there and the money back, Then jamil was not like

628
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 5: it is, now like you could make a living over.

629
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 5: THERE i could have played ten, years BUT i would

630
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 5: have been making sort of you, know high, nineties low six.

631
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 5: Figures that would have been about. It and with my,

632
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 5: DEGREE i. COULD i, mean you know my friends who

633
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 5: went straight To Wall. Street that was their bonus, check,

634
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 5: Right so they were Like, craig whenever you're, ready come

635
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 5: start coming to. Work and it was. INTERESTING i almost

636
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 5: didn't even do that because WHEN i was deciding whether

637
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 5: not to go back over or, NOT i came back From.

638
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 5: ENGLAND i played In england for two. YEARS i came,

639
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 5: back flew Through newark AND i don't know if you

640
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 5: see you're too young to remember, this but there used

641
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 5: to be an airline Called People's express and they would

642
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 5: fly From newark To london.

643
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: And it was just that sounds like it was made.

644
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 5: Up it sounds like it's made. Up it used to be,

645
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 5: there but it was a cheap flight From newark To.

646
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 5: London AND i used to take that flight back and,

647
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 5: forth And i'd stop off In newark and i'd go

648
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 5: down To princeton to visit me my, sister and Visit

649
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 5: Coach carill and visit all my friends who were still playing.

650
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 5: There and WHEN i was In, england the coach there

651
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 5: Knew Coach, carill and he Knew princeton he knew about

652
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 5: The princeton, offense and he asked me to implement some

653
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 5: of it with our, team AND i did and we,

654
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 5: won AND i was said to, myself this is. It

655
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 5: i'm going to be a. Coach and SO i started

656
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 5: mapping out this plan of all, right let, me let

657
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 5: me talk to Coach carill about. It AND i went

658
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 5: back To princeton AND i, Said, COACH i figured out

659
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 5: WHAT i want to. DO i want to be a.

660
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 5: Coach AND i thought he would just embrace the idea

661
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 5: of me following in his. Footsteps he meant so much

662
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 5: to me THAT i wanted to be a. Coach you

663
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 5: know what he. Said he, Said, craig you don't want

664
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 5: to be a FUCK i don't even know if we

665
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 5: can curse on everybody he. Said he, said you don't

666
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 5: want to be a fucking. Coach he was, LIKE i

667
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 5: can't believe you want to be a fucking.

668
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 4: Coach.

669
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 5: Here you are a black kid from The South side

670
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 5: Of chicago and you got This princeton degree and you

671
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 5: can't let go of the. Game AND i was, like

672
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 5: AND i was completely. DEVASTATED i was, heartbroken BUT i

673
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 5: realized he wasn't coming from a place of. Negativity he.

674
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 5: Was he was he THOUGHT i was destined for. More

675
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 5: and back then basketball coaches weren't making these big. Salaries

676
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 5: it was a fankless, job he, thought and he wanted

677
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 5: me to aspire for. More AND i was like. Tag

678
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 5: and NOW i got to regroup and figure out What

679
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 5: i'm going to. Do AND i went home AND i

680
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 5: talked to my Friend John, rodgers WHO i was telling

681
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 5: you about From Aerial Capital, management Fellow princeton, grad one

682
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 5: of my dearest friends for a long. Time he, said

683
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 5: you should look into. Finance he, Said i'll give you

684
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 5: some names and. Numbers and that was HOW i got

685
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 5: into the finance. World AND i did that for fourteen.

686
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 5: Years but here's WHAT i didn't, Do. JAMIL i didn't

687
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 5: give up on my dream of being a coach BECAUSE

688
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 5: i THOUGHT i could be really good at. This and

689
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 5: THEN i thought about the coaches THAT i, had starting

690
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 5: with my parents all the way up to the professional

691
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 5: COACHES i. Had and so WHEN i got my first

692
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 5: bonus check it working in the, FINANCE i was, like holy,

693
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 5: smokes IF i can do, this AND i was at

694
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 5: the time twenty three ish twenty, Four IF i can

695
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 5: do this for fifteen, years twenty, Years i'll be forty.

696
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 5: FIVE i can save up enough, money pay for my,

697
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 5: house pay for my kids' education WHEN i finally have,

698
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 5: kids and THEN i can teach seventh grade and coach

699
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 5: high school. Basketball that was my exit. Strategy that was,

700
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 5: It and SO i just started on. That and you

701
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 5: talk about making these big, pivots you, KNOW i attribute

702
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 5: that to, again my. Parents my parents were always the.

703
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 5: Type the biggest LESSON i learned from my parents was

704
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 5: don't let other people think of you dictate who you.

705
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 5: Are it was a self just the self worth stuff

706
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 5: they taught us was tremendous AND i think about them

707
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 5: all the time WHEN i think about these kids having

708
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 5: to deal with social. Media my parents would be, like

709
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 5: what do you care what they? Say? For, wow these

710
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 5: are people who don't even know. You my mom would,

711
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 5: say the people who care about you sit around this

712
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 5: table every night and talk to you and know, you

713
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 5: and you listen to. Them don't listen to all these

714
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 5: people out in the. Street and that's what she used to,

715
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 5: say don't listen to people out in the. Street and

716
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 5: it was the best ADVICE i ever got because that

717
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 5: on top and then my dad said, man if you're

718
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 5: ever lucky enough to be able to do something you

719
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 5: love and get paid for, it you will never work

720
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 5: a day in your. Life and this is coming from

721
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 5: a man WITH ms who worked a city, job blue,

722
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 5: collar got up every, day worked a swing, shift and

723
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 5: would have loved to do something, else but got up

724
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 5: and went to work every. Day and you, know you

725
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 5: see a guy on crutches going to work every. Day

726
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 5: it just makes you a hard.

727
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: Worker, yeah and then it also doesn't give you an, excuse,

728
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: right is.

729
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 5: Exactly you see what your own father.

730
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: Is, Doing it's, like, well what's my excuse not to

731
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 2: work as hard as he? DID i want to talk

732
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: about another major, pivot because you mentioned that you. Left

733
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: you were in, finance what about fourteen fifteen years somewhere in, there, right, yep,

734
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 2: yeah and then you do decide to jump into, coaching,

735
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: right but you weren't coaching seventh, graders you weren't in middle.

736
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: School you jump.

737
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: Into college, coaching so clearly you didn't follow your former.

738
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: COACHES i just so WHAT i.

739
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 5: DID i didn't follow his, advice and THEN i changed my.

740
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 5: Plan but what happened was an opportunity of a lifetime

741
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 5: came at the. Time so the Way princeton RECRUITS i

742
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 5: come to find out after having gone, there is they

743
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 5: used their network of people who live all around the

744
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 5: country who played basketball At princeton to recommend guys who

745
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 5: they think would be Great princeton. Players AND i was

746
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 5: doing that in The chicago, area so whenever they came To,

747
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 5: CHICAGO i mean you could you could. Imagine by this

748
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 5: TIME i had moved back To. CHICAGO i was working

749
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 5: For Morgan stanley In, chicago still trading and in the

750
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 5: sales and trading, arena SO i had my days were,

751
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 5: busy but my afternoons and NIGHTS i COULD i could

752
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 5: go to games and hang. Out. Uh so when they

753
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 5: would come to, TOWN i would take him around to

754
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 5: the to the good games THAT i, knew where kids

755
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 5: had good grades but were good. Players and our assistant

756
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 5: coach At princeton Was Bill, carmody who later then Became.

757
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 5: Northwestern At northwestern yeah, yeah oh, yeah another one of your.

758
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 5: Connections and he got the job At northwestern and he

759
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 5: calls me up once he gets the, job AND i was, like,

760
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 5: coach you beat me to the. PUNCH i was gonna

761
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 5: call the say, Congratulations AND i thought he was coming

762
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 5: out to look at some. PLAYERS i was, LIKE i

763
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 5: got a better group of players for you to look.

764
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 5: At and he's, like, no, no come, down calm. DOWN

765
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 5: i want to ask you if you see if you'd

766
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 5: be interested in being my assistant. Coach and So i'm

767
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 5: on the trading desk when he calls, me AND i was,

768
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 5: like let me call you right. Back AND i hang

769
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 5: up the. Phone and So i'm running the desk SO

770
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 5: i have my second in. COMMAND i was, like, look

771
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 5: handle the. DESK i got to make a phone. Call

772
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 5: SO i go downstairs out the door because the trading

773
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 5: room is so loud and busy you can't talk. PRIVATELY

774
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 5: i jump in a cab AND i, said just drive.

775
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 5: AROUND i got a phone call to. Make And i'm

776
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 5: talking to him and he's going. Through he's trying to

777
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 5: sell me this job of being an assistant coach At,

778
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 5: northwestern AND i am so blown away THAT i don't

779
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 5: even know how to say. NO i just, say you know,

780
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 5: WHAT i want to do. This But i'm partners with

781
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 5: people at this. Firm Now i'm at a Different i'm

782
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 5: at a smaller firm Where i'm one of the. PARTNERS i,

783
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 5: SAID i got to talk to my, partners make sure

784
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 5: it's okay with, them and Then i'll give you an.

785
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 5: Answer give me forty eight. Hours and he said, Sure

786
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 5: and SO i go back to my. Partners, now mind, You,

787
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 5: Jamel i'm going through a horrible. Divorce i've got two small,

788
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 5: kids eight and. Four AND i go to the guy

789
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 5: who runs the, firm who's a good friend of, mine

790
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 5: AND i, Said, JIM i got to tell. You SO

791
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 5: i got an offer to be an assistant coach At Northwestern,

792
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 5: university AND i THINK i want to take. It and

793
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 5: you know what he said to. Me the first thing he,

794
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 5: said he, Said, craig how much did him job? Pay

795
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 5: because you, know you can imagine how Much i'm making

796
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 5: running a trading. DESK i was, LIKE i think they

797
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 5: MAKE i think assistant coaches making about forty or fifty.

798
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 5: Thousand AND i was saying, that like, cheerfully And he's,

799
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 5: LIKE i can't you do. IT i can't let you do.

800
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 5: It you can't leave for that little of. Money let

801
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 5: me talk to. HIM i was, like, NO i don't

802
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 5: need you to negotiate for. ME i just need you

803
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 5: to understand THAT i don't want to leave you in the.

804
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 5: Lurch but this is an opportunity That i've been waiting

805
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 5: for my whole, life and SO i finally take. It

806
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 5: But i'm worried that my kids are used to this

807
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 5: lifestyle right that we had big, house big, vacations nice,

808
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 5: car private, School So i'm for some, reason leaving it

809
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 5: up to an eight and a four year. Old So

810
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 5: i'm like talking to them About daddy changing, jobs and

811
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 5: the first thing they were, like are you? Moving AND

812
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 5: i was, like, NOPE i don't have to, move But

813
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 5: i'm going to change jobs and it could change the

814
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 5: way we live a little. Bit AND i said to

815
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 5: my eight year old, SON i have eight year old

816
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 5: at the time year old, son four year old. Daughter

817
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 5: daddy's going to be a. Coach AND i waited for

818
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 5: their response and the looks of their, faces and the

819
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 5: eight year old, said does this mean that your office

820
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 5: is a? Gym AND i said, no but it's right

821
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 5: next to the, gym and he, said oh. Cool and my,

822
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 5: daughter right before he could get out, cool she said

823
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 5: do they have a pool? There AND i said yes they,

824
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 5: do and they were, like, oh this is, Great and

825
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 5: that could have gone either, way but in my MIND

826
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 5: i thought it was going, negative, right because they're just.

827
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 5: Kids and that was HOW i made the pivot into college.

828
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 5: Coaching best movie.

829
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 2: You sell, ever the easiest sell ever a gym and got.

830
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 5: Them that's, right that's, right that's. Right well Is.

831
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: Greg there's so much MORE i want to ask you.

832
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: ABOUT i want to ask you about ways to win

833
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: your podcast With John colini and get your thoughts on

834
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: Today's american basketball culture for. Sure but we're going to

835
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: take a quick break and we'll be back with more

836
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: With Greg. Robinson so you were mentioning before the break

837
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: about how you got into, coaching AND i think your

838
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: first head coaching job Was, brown, correct, Correct, Yes, okay

839
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: so you were At brown coaching THE ivy.

840
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: Leagues obviously you know you know that league very very,

841
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 1: well that's.

842
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 2: Right but the jump from assistant to head, COACH i,

843
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: mean what was that transition like for?

844
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 5: You it? Was it Was it seems like it's a small,

845
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 5: jump but it. Is it was a huge move and

846
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 5: the list of responsibilities just exploded, Exponentially AND i THOUGHT

847
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 5: i knew what it was going to be, like but

848
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 5: it hit me like a ton of bricks AND i

849
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 5: had SO i had been coaching At northwestern for six

850
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 5: years as an assistant coach next to a Guy Bill,

851
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 5: carmody who was the type of head coach who was

852
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 5: always preparing you to be a head. Coach SO i

853
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 5: THOUGHT i was really prepared for it UNTIL i got the, job,

854
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 5: Right AND i had interview for a lot of jobs

855
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 5: BEFORE i got The brown. JOB i don't want to

856
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 5: make it sound LIKE i just was like doo doo.

857
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 5: Doop it WAS i must the interview for twelve, jobs you,

858
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 5: know and Finally brown opened up and it was the perfect.

859
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 5: Fit but from hiring your own staff to you, know

860
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 5: all the major decisions being your. Own and at a

861
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 5: place Like, brown there's not a lot of. Resources people

862
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 5: think THE Ivy league is flowing in, endowments but that's

863
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 5: for academics and that's for, research and they they sports

864
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 5: sort of you have to you have to make your own.

865
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 5: Way in, sports you get a little bit of, money

866
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 5: but you have to make your own. Way so, scheduling

867
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 5: you had to decide how many by games you were

868
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 5: gonna get bought, For so those are games you get,

869
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 5: killed but you make some money for the. Program and

870
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 5: the best buy game we, played by the, way Was

871
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 5: Michigan state and that That i'm going to tell you

872
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 5: a quick story because that's your. School we Played Michigan

873
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 5: state At Michigan state and that's one of those games

874
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 5: where you just know you're going to get your head

875
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 5: handed to.

876
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: You and what year with?

877
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 5: This oh, man, okay so this would have been AN o.

878
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: Six, OKAY i had just seven because when you, okay

879
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 2: it was funny you brought Up Bill carmody BECAUSE i

880
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 2: covered The big, ten SO i very much Remember bill Car.

881
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah so you then then then you didn't cover this.

882
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 5: Game but we went to Uh Michigan state and we

883
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 5: ended up losing by, six and that was a feat

884
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 5: in and of, itself but the best. Thing and this

885
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 5: should be on my list of sports. MEMORIES i neglected

886
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 5: to bring this up BECAUSE i didn't think of. IT

887
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 5: i was just thinking on my feet. Here Tom iszo

888
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 5: came into our locker room and then he said on

889
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 5: the in the press conference On NATIONAL, Tv, craig you

890
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 5: have the hardest playing Team i've ever coached. Against now

891
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 5: that's From. Tom he's the pope of playing. Hard and

892
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 5: he came in and said that to my team and to,

893
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 5: me and we just took off after that but it

894
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 5: was one of those games where we just played as

895
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 5: hard as we could and we were prepared for how

896
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 5: hard they, played and that was that was always a.

897
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 5: Memory And, tom of course is on the board of THE,

898
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 5: nabc and he AND i have got a wonderful relationship

899
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 5: and have stayed in touch and all of. That but

900
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 5: he is one of my FAVORITE i, mean you, know,

901
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 5: YEAH i represent all the. Coaches you can't have, favorites

902
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 5: but he's one of my favorites for his outspokenness and

903
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 5: and he just is a truth. Teller BUT i. DIGRESS i.

904
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 5: Digress So i'm At northwestern and AND i, Mean I'm

905
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 5: Matt brown and we Played Michigan, state And i'm just

906
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 5: thinking of the the moving that one share over to

907
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 5: being a head. Coach there's so many responsibilities sort of

908
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 5: thinking strategically about the. Program you don't have to do

909
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 5: that as an, assistant Right you like figuring out film

910
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 5: exchange and doing scouts and things like. That and one

911
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 5: of the hardest things for me was the transition of

912
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 5: not doing the scouts LIKE i did, scouts AND i

913
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 5: was very thorough and giving that up to the assistance

914
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 5: to do that took me a while to be comfortable

915
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 5: with because it was, like if it wasn't done the

916
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 5: WAY i, LIKED i had to be able to accept

917
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 5: the fact that this is their way of doing it

918
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 5: and then sort of fit in WHEN i. Could but

919
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 5: it was a real, transition AND i counseled people who

920
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 5: will ask me about that. Move it's one of the

921
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 5: hardest things to, do and no matter HOW i can

922
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 5: explain how hard it, is it's one of those things

923
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 5: where you have to go. Through it's kind of like

924
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 5: learning how to, drive, right you don't really learn how to,

925
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 5: drive so you get your driver's license and your parents

926
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 5: aren't in the car with you. Anymore you, know you

927
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 5: remember those days where it's, like, OH i can make

928
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 5: a mistake about my dad like being what what are you?

929
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 5: Doing screaming at. You so it's like that now.

930
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: You unfortunately experienced something that more coaches experience than not

931
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 2: is that you went To Oregon.

932
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: State you were let go, there you were separating from

933
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: your job to put this fire.

934
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: FIRED i, MEAN i think a lot of, times especially

935
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 2: as you, know the coach is always the lowest hanging.

936
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: Fruit that's always the first person people call for to be.

937
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 2: Fired, Right but what kind of insight or give people

938
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: some insight about what that's. Like because, PROFESSIONALLY i, mean

939
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: you take pride of your. Job nobody signs up.

940
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 5: To be a job.

941
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: Badly nobody's trying to do.

942
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: That so what was that experience like for you being,

943
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: fired WHICH i assume might have been one of the

944
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 2: few times in your life that's ever happened to.

945
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 5: You oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah outside of being cut

946
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 5: from the, sixers, right you just don't get, FIRED i,

947
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 5: mean you, Know but here's WHAT i will. Say it

948
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 5: was the worst thing and the best thing that could

949
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 5: have ever happened to. Me Because i'll tell you this

950
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 5: so having you, know we as black coaches talk about

951
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 5: all the, time we don't get access to the great

952
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 5: jobs or the good. Jobs we get the bad. Jobs

953
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 5: brown was a Bad northwestern was a bad. Job Coach

954
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 5: carmedy got that. One brown was a bad. JOB i got.

955
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 5: That Oregon state was even. Worse AND i got. That

956
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 5: but BECAUSE i had experience in these tough, PLACES i

957
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 5: don't want TO i shouldn't say bad, now they tough.

958
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 5: PLACES i knew exactly what it took to get to

959
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 5: The Promised, land AND i got To. Brown it was

960
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 5: The brown's two winningest years in history got me The

961
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 5: Oregon state. Job got To Oregon, state AND i said

962
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 5: BEFORE i took the, JOB i was, like, look the

963
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 5: only way that this makes sense is if you're going

964
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 5: to understand how long this is gonna. Take If i'm not.

965
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 5: Cheating If i'm not, cheating it's gonna take six years

966
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 5: to get to the point where the seventh year you

967
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 5: have a chance to go to the. Tournament that's WHAT

968
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 5: i told. Them and we get. There we're winning, games graduating,

969
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 5: players and we get to year six AND i am

970
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 5: the second winning as coach In Oregon state. History but

971
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 5: the school there's two things at. Work football team's doing.

972
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 5: Poorly his contract's bigger than, mine they can't fire, him

973
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 5: and everybody knows my. Politics so year six we're set to.

974
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 5: Win we're set to go to the. Tournament year, SEVEN

975
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 5: i get fired In. JUNE i, mean go figure that like,

976
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 5: us it doesn't even make. Sense it's, like fire me

977
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 5: WHERE i can get another. Job fire me In. June

978
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 5: and my ad is, like, WELL i gotta make. It

979
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 5: he tells, ME i gotta make a, move And i'm, like, What,

980
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 5: well then make a move on the football. Coach he's

981
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 5: the one not, winning and SO i get. Fired and

982
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 5: in year, seven the guy comes in and goes to

983
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 5: the tournament with my, players, right and.

984
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: Now everybody's looking at you like this just proves you

985
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 2: were doing a bad.

986
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 5: Job And i'm like, This, Bruse i'm doing a good.

987
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 5: Job he won with my.

988
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 2: Guys let's let's talk about ways to win for a.

989
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 2: Moment you your new podcast With Yes John Caller. Party

990
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: one of the most winningness coaches in college basketball. History

991
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 2: he just made a hell of a, Pivot, okay to

992
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: go From. Kentucky we know about that. Tradition, yes the

993
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 2: numerous top players that call has turned out that are

994
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: playing in THE.

995
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: Nba you Know Anthony.

996
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: DAVIS i, mean he's Got it's like The kentucky guards

997
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: alone across THE nba is just they can stand on

998
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: their own and many.

999
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: Regards so he has been a talent factory for a.

1000
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,959
Speaker 1: While but now he's At arkansas of all. Places how

1001
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: surprised were you that he made the jump since you

1002
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:10,919
Speaker 1: you know him a little.

1003
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 5: Bit SO i was surprised more That kentucky was willing

1004
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 5: to let him go THAN i was surprised that he

1005
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 5: made the jump BECAUSE i have been doing this long

1006
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 5: enough to, know And i've talked to a lot of,

1007
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 5: coaches and, really your gestation time if you're if you're

1008
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 5: Not John calipari and you're not winning as much as he,

1009
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 5: is and to some people he wasn't winning enough national.

1010
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 5: Championships but the gestation period is about six years and

1011
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 5: then there needs to be a change on either. Side

1012
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 5: but for CAL i mean you said. It he talked

1013
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 5: about in one of HIS i can't remember if it

1014
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 5: was a tweet Or instagram or he said it, somewhere

1015
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 5: but his players have signed over a billion dollars in.

1016
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 5: Contracts just think about that wealth for young black. Players

1017
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 5: that in and of, itself he would be my coach

1018
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 5: for life BECAUSE i could use that pr at my

1019
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 5: university and it would help, admissions it would help, fundraising

1020
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 5: it would help my freaking football. Team. Right SO i

1021
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 5: was more surprised that they let an asset like that

1022
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 5: go now where he ended up surprised Because i've always

1023
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 5: thought Of arkansas as a football sec. Football it's a football,

1024
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 5: school you, KNOW i, mean this is your. Job So

1025
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 5: i'm AND i told you football was my first. Board

1026
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 5: my parents just wouldn't let me play, it SO i

1027
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 5: consume college. Football so when he said when he got,

1028
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 5: me because he didn't say anything to, ME i had

1029
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 5: to read it in the. Papers and nor WOULD i

1030
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 5: have asked him right BECAUSE i wouldn't put him in that.

1031
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 5: Position but he said WHEN i Heard. ARKANSAS i was,

1032
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 5: like no, way Not. Arkansas they're, trying they're trying to get,

1033
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 5: him but it's no way he's going to a basketball.

1034
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 5: School AND i WAS i was trying to figure out

1035
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 5: if it was going to, be if some moves were going.

1036
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 5: On and when he WHEN i finally talked to, HIM

1037
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 5: i was, like you're not going To arkansas and he's,

1038
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 5: LIKE i THINK i, might he, said and the sound

1039
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 5: in his voice he was. Happy and SO i think

1040
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 5: this might be a tremendous move for both him And.

1041
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 5: Arkansas and they're they're they're getting behind him in a

1042
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 5: big way on the nil. Front and that's that's the

1043
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,479
Speaker 5: that's all you. Need and he was already a good.

1044
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 5: RECRUITER i, mean now he takes that ability to send

1045
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 5: guys to THE nba and takes it somewhere. Else so

1046
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 5: somebody else is going to benefit from that because it to,

1047
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 5: Me cal's style of managing players is what helps them

1048
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 5: get to THE nba and that begets more.

1049
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 2: Recruits so you mentioned a very hot topic of, conversation

1050
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: AND i am the three the three, letters And i've

1051
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: heard some of your thoughts before about, name image and

1052
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: likeness at least and you can certainly correct me IF

1053
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 2: i remember IF i have your viewpoint. Wrong but your

1054
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: position seems to be like there needs to be some

1055
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: level of regulation here because it's you know it is

1056
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: it is a bit of the wild Wild, west like you,

1057
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: know if we're if we're being, honest, right why do

1058
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: you think there needs to be more? Guardrails i'll use

1059
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: that term for, name for, name image and. Likeness what

1060
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: are you saying that you feel like is maybe problematic

1061
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 2: that needs to be dealt.

1062
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 5: With And i'll tell you what it, is because really true,

1063
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 5: name image and likeness. Is and let me take a step.

1064
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 5: BACK i am thrilled that the student athletes are getting

1065
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 5: to participate in this ecosystem of enterprise right because it's

1066
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 5: long time. Coming and back WHEN i was coach AND

1067
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 5: i used to talk about, this AND i also think

1068
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 5: had we had we had we started talking about this

1069
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 5: fifteen twenty years ago we wouldn't be at this place

1070
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 5: that we are. Now but that's it's neither here nor.

1071
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 5: There true, name image and likeness was supposed to be

1072
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 5: set up so that student athletes can use their, name their,

1073
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 5: image and their likeness to make some extra money for.

1074
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 5: Themselves and what we have going on, Now, jamill is

1075
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 5: not true, name image and. Likeness it's pay for. Play

1076
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 5: let's just call it what it. Is we've got these

1077
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 5: collectives paying kids to come to school to play at your,

1078
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 5: school and then you might have to sign some motographs

1079
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 5: in order to get you collect your. Money so that's not,

1080
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 5: real an. Il so what we need is guardrails on

1081
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 5: this pay for play situation because what it's causing and

1082
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 5: What i'm very fearful of is That and this has

1083
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 5: happened even before pay for, play and you know. This

1084
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 5: having covered the, sports we have got to be experts

1085
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 5: at getting these kids through. College and they get a college,

1086
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 5: degree but they're not college. Educated and let me just

1087
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 5: make that clear to the. Listeners is What i'm saying

1088
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 5: is they get a piece of paper and get a,

1089
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 5: degree but when they go to interview for, jobs they're woefully.

1090
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 5: Unprepared AND i don't like. THAT i don't think that's

1091
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 5: the fair trade. Off the fair trade off is come

1092
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 5: out be able to get a job and be a

1093
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 5: successful professional away from your. Sport we're losing that because

1094
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 5: with the way it's set up, now along with the transfer,

1095
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 5: portal student athletes are going to move from place to

1096
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 5: place for the hire dollar right, now which isn't very

1097
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 5: much money at all unless you're one of these guys

1098
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 5: who's getting millions of. Dollars but most of the student

1099
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 5: athletes are getting less than one hundred thousand dollars a,

1100
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 5: year and it's going toward taxes and jewelry and. Sneakers

1101
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 5: in my, opinion it's not you, KNOW i haven't heard anybody, say,

1102
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 5: Well i'm putting this in an interest bearing account and

1103
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 5: not going to touch it Until i'm forty five years

1104
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 5: old And i'll have a little nest egg to buy

1105
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 5: my my first home or something like. That so that's

1106
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 5: WHY i say there needs to be some sort of

1107
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 5: guardrails so that we have an education component to this

1108
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 5: where we can guarantee that our student athletes will come

1109
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 5: out in better shape than they were going in other

1110
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 5: than in their.

1111
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 2: Pocketbooks, okay so we have And i'm glad you got.

1112
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: It we have a you, know sort of a.

1113
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: Two worlds or two meteors. Colliding we have.

1114
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 2: Nil we have a transfer transfer portal where there's way

1115
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: more kids in the portal than they are actually jobst

1116
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: so it's highly. Competitive a lot of kids who, think you,

1117
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: know grass is. Green on the other, side they're finding

1118
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: out it is, not because there there is.

1119
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: No Grass number.

1120
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 2: One that's one of the things they're finding. Out how

1121
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: are these two, things in your, opinion Impacting american basketball culture?

1122
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 5: Overall what you're finding is the whole. Nil the. Money

1123
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 5: just follow the money and you'll figure it. Out the

1124
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 5: money is attracting the subculture of agents, handlers however you

1125
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 5: want to call, them who are telling kids that there

1126
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 5: are opportunities out there for them somewhere else when there.

1127
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 5: Aren't and that's how you get the portal being overloaded

1128
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 5: with not enough places for folks to. Go and then

1129
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 5: what happens to all these people who don't get. Jobs

1130
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 5: they end up having to Go, Naia they end up

1131
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 5: having to go, nowhere, Right so they sit out a

1132
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 5: year and their development starts to go, down and we

1133
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 5: can't even keep track of those folks, Right and at

1134
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 5: the LAST i, heard it was like thirty percent of

1135
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 5: the numbers that were in. There and so you've got

1136
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 5: two thousand kids in the. Portal that's a lot of

1137
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 5: kids who are you, know you're talking about six hundred

1138
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 5: kids who are homeless for lack of a better. Term

1139
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 5: AND i think this ability to be able to transfer

1140
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 5: is a good right to have if you're if you're

1141
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 5: transparent and, truthful and you know what the opportunities are right.

1142
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 5: NOW i don't. THINK i think you have people who

1143
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 5: are advising student athletes who don't really have a position

1144
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 5: for them to. Go they're trying to entice them to

1145
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 5: be their client based on the money they say they can.

1146
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 5: Get but we're looking, around where is that? Offered nobody

1147
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 5: knows we need. THIS i would like to see it

1148
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 5: like an, exchange like when you trade stocks and. Bonds

1149
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 5: you can see where things are. Trading then you can figure, out,

1150
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 5: Well i'm not better than this, guy Or i'm better

1151
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 5: than this, guy SO i should be getting offered. This

1152
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 5: But i'm not getting off for. This so this Is

1153
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 5: let me stay WHERE i am and. See once you

1154
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 5: go into the, portal it's very hard to go back

1155
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 5: because coaches don't think you're coming, back and they move.

1156
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,439
Speaker 5: On they give your spot to something That's that's exactly, Right,

1157
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 5: Jabelle that's exactly. Right and SO i just think what

1158
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 5: we want to do at THE, nabc we want to

1159
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 5: do a couple of. Things we want we want to

1160
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 5: have more of a voice for the coaches who are

1161
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 5: dealing with these student athletes in the room when these

1162
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 5: decisions are, making because we can help alleviate some of

1163
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 5: these unintended consequences that happen that we could easily have

1164
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:32,479
Speaker 5: fixed if we were in the room or at least

1165
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 5: brought to folks. Attention and then the second thing is

1166
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 5: we want to be a part of the. Solution we

1167
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 5: think we have some decent ideas for solutions to all

1168
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 5: of this where everybody can all. Win but there need

1169
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 5: to be some. Rules AND i understand that the NCAA's

1170
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 5: rules have gotten them sued, now so they're very leary

1171
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 5: on what to. Do BUT i believe the The Coaches,

1172
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 5: association the coaches have a lot of institutional knowledge that

1173
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 5: would help solve these. Problems you, know and we and you,

1174
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 5: know it's really interesting because we the coaches have been

1175
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 5: asked to do THE nc DOUBLE a comes a call

1176
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 5: them when they need our help and when they need our.

1177
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 5: Health to talk to legislators in D c or our

1178
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 5: legislators in our home. States they'll listen to, us they

1179
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 5: won't listen to THE nc DOUBLE. A so that's what

1180
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 5: we're fighting. For AND i just THINK i and the

1181
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,439
Speaker 5: last Thing i'll say is the game, changes the life.

1182
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 5: Changes our coaches are going to be. Fine they'll they'll

1183
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 5: adapt to whatever rules you give. Them but they're trying

1184
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 5: To they're trying to figure out how we can still

1185
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 5: be influential and a positively influential to our student. Athletes

1186
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 5: so when they, leave they feel like they have a

1187
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 5: place to come back. To the transfer portal is going

1188
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 5: to make it where our student athletes. Won't they won't

1189
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 5: what's going to be their. Home when you, know you

1190
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 5: go back To Michigan, state you feel pretty good about.

1191
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 5: THAT i go back To, PRINCETON i feel really good about.

1192
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 5: That but IF i had gone to four different, schools

1193
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 5: which one AM i gonna feel good about?

1194
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: Now of, course the natural pushback is that coaches have

1195
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 2: freedom of, movement and we see it all the time

1196
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 2: where coaches get to take whatever job they.

1197
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: Want they don't care about.

1198
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 2: How they, leave what shape they want to leave a program.

1199
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 2: In so why the pushback.

1200
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 5: Is some, coaches some. Coaches some coaches feel yell not.

1201
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 5: All but What i'll say to, that And i'm all

1202
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 5: for them to be able to move. AROUND i just

1203
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 5: think that if you're going to have a move around

1204
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 5: and get, paid then they should have contracts just like we.

1205
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 5: DO i don't there is nothing wrong with, that and

1206
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 5: that was one of the things we were talking about

1207
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 5: at the beginning of all of. Us if you're gonna

1208
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 5: let them, move then let's just figure out what the?

1209
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 5: Contract what the? What what do they? Want do you

1210
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 5: want to stay at our school for one? Year, okay

1211
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 5: and here are the you gotta go to, class you

1212
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 5: got to go to, treatment you gotta do, this you

1213
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 5: gotta do. That and after one year you could. Leave

1214
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 5: you want to be three, years, great we'll sign you

1215
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 5: for three. Years and if you go for three years

1216
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 5: and you want to leave before then you have a,

1217
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 5: buyout just like we have a. BUYOUT i want to

1218
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 5: make it even. STEVEN i think it should be even.

1219
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 5: Steven AND i think most of our coaches are feeling

1220
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 5: that way. Too but part of the contract is you

1221
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 5: have to go to, class you have to have your

1222
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 5: progress toward, degree you have to you have to do

1223
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 5: whatever you can to come out of here being college

1224
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 5: educated because most of you aren't going to be pros

1225
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 5: because the pros aren't getting AN. Il the pros are

1226
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 5: getting a contract in THE. Nba you're getting AN. Il

1227
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 5: you're not a pro yet when.

1228
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 2: You look, overall it's just the mentality of today's players

1229
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 2: because we're having you, know as you put, it pay for,

1230
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 2: play WHICH i would agree that that's kind of what it.

1231
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: Is right now you have that and then it has

1232
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 2: and as we mentioned earlier about HOW aau culture is totally.

1233
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 2: Different you, know anybody's been paying attention to THE, nba

1234
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 2: they should see the last six MVPs have all been

1235
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: international players and seeing Where american basketball culture. Is is

1236
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 2: this a good thing or a bad?

1237
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: THING i, mean we just had Multiple.

1238
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 2: French players taken in the top six in THE NBA

1239
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 2: Nba draft and there's been some players who have said it,

1240
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 2: loudly some have whispered it, that you, Know american basketball.

1241
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: Is kind of fighting for its life a little. Bit

1242
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: so what are you what's your take on?

1243
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 5: That. Issue my take on that is it's hard for

1244
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 5: me not to agree given What i'm seeing now That

1245
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 5: i've stepped back from coaching And i'm looking at the whole,

1246
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 5: picture Because, jamelle what what what What i'm Seeing there's

1247
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 5: a couple of dynamics at work. Here, first the youth

1248
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 5: sports industry is a multi billion dollar industry, Now so

1249
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 5: what you have is you have way too many people

1250
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:17,759
Speaker 5: in the business of training your kid to be a college.

1251
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 5: Player there's not enough raw materials out, there, right and

1252
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 5: we've gone away from basketball being a grassroots sport or

1253
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,719
Speaker 5: an inner city. Sport it is now a middle class.

1254
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 5: Sport so you can't even be on the radar from

1255
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 5: a raw materials and development standpoint unless you have parents

1256
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 5: who can afford lessons and nutrition and all these youth

1257
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 5: basketball tournaments that cost tens of thousands of. Dollars and

1258
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 5: the second thing is those are all you're training to

1259
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 5: play in these games to get highlight. Tapes and what

1260
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 5: the difference is between where we used to be and

1261
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 5: where international basketball. Is back in the, day we had

1262
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 5: way more practices than we had. Games now we have

1263
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 5: way more games than we have, practices and you can't

1264
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 5: develop that. Way that's my. Opinion that's a lot of coaches.

1265
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 5: Opinion but now we're seeing the empirical data coming in the.

1266
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 5: Draft and the Way europe does it is they grab

1267
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 5: their best players and they have them practice with pros

1268
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 5: and they have way more. Practice And i'll tell you

1269
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 5: from back when forty years, ago WHEN i was playing In,

1270
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 5: europe you had two days on every day except for

1271
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 5: the day of a. Game you practiced in the morning

1272
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 5: and played a. Game you practiced all the, time and

1273
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 5: that's how you got. Better and that's why college was

1274
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 5: always viewed as a great stepping stone FOR nba players

1275
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 5: because you had four days of practice every week and

1276
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 5: then you had. Games, now because of the way youth

1277
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,759
Speaker 5: basketball is coming. Along you, Know i've got a fourteen

1278
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 5: year old and twelve year. Old Now i've got two older,

1279
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 5: kids are two younger. Kids my two younger kids are

1280
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 5: in the youth basketball. System they have games every, weekend

1281
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 5: and they play six or eight games on a weekend

1282
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 5: and practice twice a Week Monday wednesday Or Tuesday. Thursday

1283
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 5: it's not enough, development and you don't develop playing in the.

1284
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 2: Games so looking at this this, culture do you anticipate

1285
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 2: as we move forward that or is there fear that

1286
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 2: Really american basketball players will become they'll be far fewer

1287
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: of them in THE nba than what we see, now

1288
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:40,839
Speaker 2: or would they just be different.

1289
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 5: THAT i think they'll be. DIFFERENT i think because there's

1290
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 5: going to always be. Those see THE nba only needs

1291
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 5: that Those they really only need the sixty guys they

1292
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 5: draft every year in the two. Rounds so you got

1293
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 5: to find the sixty best players in the country every.

1294
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 5: Year that'll be easier to do over here because we

1295
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 5: have way more people playing, basket so they'll still Be

1296
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 5: but what you'll what you'll see is what you spoke of,

1297
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 5: earlier the influx of the international, guys the skill, level

1298
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 5: the attention to. Detail when it comes to the you,

1299
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 5: know top eight who are, playing it'll be interesting to

1300
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 5: watch how that. Goes like those bottom guys who are

1301
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 5: at the end of the, bench they can fill them

1302
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 5: up With american players from college who are will stick

1303
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 5: around for a year or two the two way, contracts

1304
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 5: and then they'll get they'll get the next group coming.

1305
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 5: In they can go in and. Out but the guys

1306
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 5: who are playing and competing for, championships it'll be really

1307
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 5: interesting to see how Long american basketball can compete with

1308
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 5: These european folks who come. IN i, mean you, know

1309
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 5: you look At. Jokic he is my favorite player to

1310
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 5: watch because he does everything with so so much ease

1311
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 5: against guys who are supremely more attic than he. Is

1312
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 5: and it's almost like a, joke but it reminds me

1313
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 5: of what we used to do At. Princeton we just

1314
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 5: were just fundamentally better basketball. Players we just didn't have

1315
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 5: the athleticism that these other schools. Had and at we're

1316
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 5: getting to a point where people are figuring out how

1317
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 5: to meld the. Two and so where DO i see this.

1318
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 5: Going it'll be interesting because just like we used to

1319
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 5: send coaches over To europe back of the, day whoever

1320
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,640
Speaker 5: we sent back in the day to teach them, this

1321
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 5: it picked. UP i think you're going to see more

1322
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,920
Speaker 5: coaches from over there come over here and try and.

1323
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 5: RETOOL i think THE nba is trying to do that

1324
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 5: right now with their. Academies they're trying to get more

1325
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 5: development at the lower level to teach them at a

1326
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 5: younger level how important practice is and how important development.

1327
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 5: Is and, NOW i mean just fifteen years, ago you

1328
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 5: didn't hear people talking about player development the way you

1329
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 5: hear them talking about it. Now and it's because we're

1330
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 5: behind in player. Development we've got we can run and

1331
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 5: jump and dunk and and and look good on the,

1332
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 5: metrics but when it comes to playing the, game we're

1333
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 5: losing our.

1334
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: FOOTING i want to ask you BEFORE i let you.

1335
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 2: GO i got two political questions actually that this is

1336
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 2: a sports and politics, podcast right.

1337
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah and my, first my first sports and. Politics

1338
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:24,680
Speaker 5: they go to you.

1339
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 2: Know it's like ham than, jelly despite the fact that

1340
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 2: people try to pretend.

1341
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 5: Otherwise people try, people they go kicking and screaming in

1342
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 5: the opposite. Direction, Right they don't don't know politics in

1343
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 5: my sports all.

1344
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 2: Over the, PLACE i was like the, bonement you buy

1345
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 2: a ticket to, it get everywhere it is politics because

1346
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 2: that stadium was funded by the.

1347
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: Taxpayers more than likely that's where it. Is That's have

1348
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 1: you ever considered running for public?

1349
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 4: Office?

1350
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 5: NO i have. Not it's so. Funny our family gets

1351
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 5: to ask that question so many times. Now my sister

1352
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 5: gives and, whatever all the stuff that's going on, now

1353
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 5: and it's so funny because we only got into this. Now,

1354
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 5: now don't get me. Wrong my. Parents my dad was

1355
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,679
Speaker 5: a precinct captain In, chicago but that's because he worked

1356
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 5: for the city Of. Chicago when you, work are you

1357
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 5: have a city, Job you're expected to go out and

1358
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 5: get people to vote and donate things like. That never

1359
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 5: was a, politician but. Participated made sure we grew up

1360
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 5: knowing that we had to. Vote we. Gotta he would

1361
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 5: take us when he went to, vote he'd take us

1362
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 5: to the polling, place show us how it was. Done

1363
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 5: and so when WHEN i turned eighteen AND i could,

1364
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,760
Speaker 5: vote it was like a big. Deal it was a

1365
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 5: big deal in our, house and we all four went

1366
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 5: and my dad went in with me and he just

1367
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 5: he helped me get. Through it was like a big.

1368
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 5: Deal we went out to dinner. Afterwards it was. Crazy

1369
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 5: but we Have i've never ever thought about being a,

1370
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 5: politician and we never you, know it gets. BACK i,

1371
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 5: KNOW i keep sounding like a broken, record but it gets.

1372
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 5: By my mom and dad would always, say when you're a,

1373
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 5: politician that's when you have to think about what other

1374
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 5: people think. Of and they always taught us not to

1375
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 5: worry about what other people think. Of, now that might

1376
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 5: make a good, politician but it would turn you off

1377
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 5: to being a, politician and that's WHERE i. AM i

1378
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 5: JUST i just THINK i don't have the temperament for.

1379
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 5: It AND i know my. Sister my sister likes to

1380
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 5: be very frank and say what's going. On that doesn't

1381
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 5: make a good. Politician you have to be able to,

1382
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 5: say you have to have be able to have some

1383
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 5: nuance to. It NOW i have more, nuance but it's

1384
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 5: just not interesting to me much. More what's more interesting

1385
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 5: to me is catching these young folks at a at

1386
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 5: an early age and pouring in as much AS i

1387
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 5: can THAT i got From frasier And Marian, robinson because you,

1388
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 5: know those two changed my. LIFE i, MEAN i would

1389
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 5: have never thought about going To. Princeton if it was for,

1390
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 5: THEM i would have gone to. Somewhere it was giving

1391
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 5: me a basketball, scholarship, RIGHT i would have never been

1392
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 5: able To and Then princeton allows you to take all

1393
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 5: these crazy jobs That i've taken and be able to

1394
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:17,839
Speaker 5: turn myself into WHAT i was able to turn myself

1395
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 5: into with the, confidence with the intellectual confidence of being

1396
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:27,520
Speaker 5: able to. Compete. Right it's just So i'm more focused

1397
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 5: on sort of the helping others who might want to do,

1398
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 5: that but not for.

1399
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 4: Me not for.

1400
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 2: Me, now the perspective you, have it's because you guys

1401
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,719
Speaker 2: grew up in the same. House that sounds like something

1402
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 2: that might have been a, factor and why the Former

1403
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: First lady won't Run and to, ME i Do i'll

1404
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 2: just say, quickly my perspective is like a lot of

1405
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 2: times when her name is brought, up despite the fact

1406
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 2: she has said numerous times she does Not i'm, clear

1407
01:16:58,439 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 2: no interest in being.

1408
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: There it's a bit like loving the backup.

1409
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 2: Quarterback like y'all say this, now but we all, know

1410
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 2: given the level of, scrutiny all the things she went

1411
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 2: through as the First, lady you all make it LIKE

1412
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 2: i think people have a bit of revisionist history about

1413
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 2: what that is actually like in.

1414
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: Practice but that being, said my final political version for

1415
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: where you get out. Here have you ever tried to

1416
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 1: convince her to run for? President? No, no, No.

1417
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 5: And so here's how this. Goes this is how it

1418
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 5: went in our. Household, right she Met barack and he

1419
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 5: just happened to be a politician or want to be a.

1420
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 5: Politican he wasn't a politician where we met, him and

1421
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 5: he but he aspired to be a. Politician and he

1422
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,799
Speaker 5: never made it a. Secret and so when he started

1423
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 5: running and, winning my sister had a little bit of

1424
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 5: an attitude AND i was, like hold, up now you

1425
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 5: AND i are brother and. Sister you're my closest. Friend

1426
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 5: i'm gonna look out for. You BUT i gotta tell

1427
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 5: you in these, relationships he's been upfront the whole. Time

1428
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 5: you just didn't think he would win or be. Good

1429
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:11,599
Speaker 5: and now you can't be pissed at him because he's

1430
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 5: good at what he. Does that would be like my

1431
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 5: wife being pissed That i'm a good coach and she

1432
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 5: didn't want me to be a. Coach she didn't like,

1433
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,679
Speaker 5: coaches and she thought for a, minute she's, like, okay

1434
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 5: should and then and so then we get involved in

1435
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 5: this whole. Thing only because she met. Him he has

1436
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 5: to talk her into letting him run for. President run for.

1437
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 5: President it's like, what you can't say? No but he

1438
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 5: was like me with the, kids asking about going to

1439
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 5: be a, coach and oh, man he might it wouldn't have.

1440
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 5: Worked so he you know what he. Did he, Went he's, Like,

1441
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 5: craig can you talk to your? Mom and because he

1442
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 5: knew my, mom, well he's a, politician he knows how

1443
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 5: to work the. Angles AND i was, like, oh good,

1444
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 5: idea and so what we we We that's how my

1445
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 5: mom ended up going to The White house because she we, said,

1446
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 5: look we my sister wanted her daughters to be raised

1447
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 5: like she was raised and LIKE i was raising my

1448
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 5: kids like my dad and mom raised. Us low, key

1449
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 5: focus on, academics hard, work don't worry about what other

1450
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 5: people are. Thinking not on front. Street and she's going

1451
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,799
Speaker 5: on the front is to front, streets, right so we

1452
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 5: we we get we get this all. Going he wins

1453
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,799
Speaker 5: that you got, that you, know two years of running

1454
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 5: and then eight years in The White. House every time

1455
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,639
Speaker 5: people ask, her she, says, NO i, KNOW i get.

1456
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 5: It it's a it's a hard. NOTE i would bet

1457
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,719
Speaker 5: every every CENT i have on the fact that she wouldn't.

1458
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 5: Run AND i just went all the BETS i went.

1459
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 5: On because everybody thinks they're going to talk her into.

1460
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 5: Running it ain't gonna. Happen it is not anybody.

1461
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 1: Ever come close to.

1462
01:19:56,479 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 5: Do BUT i, mean you read my sister's, book you

1463
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 5: probably know my whole. Family EVEN i can't talk her

1464
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 5: in the, STUFF i can talk. HER i can give

1465
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 5: her some. Counsel but if she doesn't want to do,

1466
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 5: something she ain't doing. It AND i don't blame, HER

1467
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 5: i don't blame. You she's been like that since she

1468
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 5: was four years. Old she the toughest personality in our.

1469
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 5: Family and you when you give her two things to choose,

1470
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 5: from you better want both of them to, happen because

1471
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,960
Speaker 5: she liable to choose the one you don't. Want so

1472
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 5: it's nowhere near close and it's It's AND i applaud

1473
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:37,840
Speaker 5: her for that BECAUSE i think she can get more

1474
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 5: done outside of The White. House she's got such a

1475
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:46,040
Speaker 5: platform and people really listen to. Her and like you, Said,

1476
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 5: jamelle you being a black woman and being in the,

1477
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 5: media you saw all the stuff all it was such mean.

1478
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 5: Stuff and you know, what what's so funny is people are, like, Hey,

1479
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 5: craig how do you put up with all this stuff they're?

1480
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 5: Saying And i'm, LIKE i go back once, again it doesn't.

1481
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 5: Matter they don't know. Her it doesn't bother. Me it's

1482
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 5: like when people said bad things about me as a.

1483
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 5: Coach you know who you, are we know who we.

1484
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 5: Are i'm not worried about. That but it's a, lot

1485
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 5: and it's a lot when you have little children, too

1486
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 5: that you have to sort of bring up this. Way

1487
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 5: AND i just think she's done such a great job at.

1488
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 1: It and you, know, YEAH i wouldn't sign up for that.

1489
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 5: Again oh so last. Thing, SEE i know you're a movie, buff,

1490
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 5: RIGHT i, know AND i love that And i'm a

1491
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 5: big wire. Fan but you know your Movies? Gladiator did

1492
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 5: you See?

1493
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: Gladiator of COURSE a thousand?

1494
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 5: Times of course you love And gladiator is one of

1495
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 5: those movies when it's, on you turn, it you'll catch

1496
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 5: any part of right and then you watched it to the. End,

1497
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 5: well then you remember the part When caesar goes To Russell,

1498
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 5: krutch To Maximum, suppers To maximus and he wants them

1499
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 5: to Be, caesar, right And maximus, SAYS i can't Be,

1500
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:11,680
Speaker 5: caesar And caesar, says that's why you have to be season. Now,

1501
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 5: see but my sister doesn't Watch. Gladiators, no she. Ain't

1502
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 5: she Ain't.

1503
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 2: Caesar but you know we see this often, though is

1504
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 2: that the people who should one are the ones who

1505
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 2: are never interested in Right.

1506
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 5: And, see see you can't be too thirsty for that?

1507
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 5: Position are you too thirsty for? It it ain't for?

1508
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 5: You and and see all these people who want, it

1509
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 5: they're just a little too thirsty in my. Opinion So

1510
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 5: i'll leave it with. That i'll leave you with.

1511
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:43,320
Speaker 2: That, Well, GREG i just want to thank you for

1512
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 2: taking some time out to talk a little hoops and Especially,

1513
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 2: uh you, know with everything you have going, ON i

1514
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 2: really appreciate your. Time and can't you know everybody tell

1515
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,600
Speaker 2: everybody how they can check out ways to?

1516
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 5: Win you, can you can Catch ways To win on

1517
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 5: any way you get your. Podcast we are here for

1518
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 5: the long. Term Coach cal is gonna be with US

1519
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 5: uh and now in his new position At, arkansas he's

1520
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 5: having a blast doing. This and, Again ways To win

1521
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 5: is a podcast that shares the lessons that we have

1522
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 5: all learned in the sports arena and how you can

1523
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 5: apply them in the regular world even if you are

1524
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 5: not a sports. Fan and it's some really good.

1525
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 2: STUFF i love the show, description which is on court

1526
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 2: wisdom to solve your off court. Problems yeah all, right

1527
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,400
Speaker 2: with people start asking you off for dating, Advice i'm just,

1528
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 2: saying you, know.

1529
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 5: And we have some tips to that, too BECAUSE i

1530
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 5: always told my PLAYERS i always do want to. Play

1531
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 5: nothing good happens after, midnight and even if it's. Good

1532
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 5: even if it's, good it's gonna turn out to be.

1533
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 5: Bad so we're ready for the date.

1534
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 2: Advice all, right that's a tough, sale eighteen or twenty

1535
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 2: two year old, crowdfit But god bless you pretty Sure?

1536
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: Ryan all, right, Everybody greig is getting out of.

1537
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:07,720
Speaker 2: Here we got more to. Come we'll go and to

1538
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 2: take another break and we'll be right, back all, right

1539
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 2: BEFORE i close out another episode Of. Politics time now

1540
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 2: for this week's viewer slash listener, question which comes from

1541
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 2: A lot Of day bar, HOPE i set that, right all, Right,

1542
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 2: oh A lot Of day, says, Hello, jamil and congrats

1543
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 2: on your new and much needed podcast. Outlet my question

1544
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 2: is what has happened to the black athlete who stood

1545
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,560
Speaker 2: for social causes like our elders did back in the.

1546
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 2: Day Colin kaepernick made his position, known and he was

1547
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 2: black balled because of, it but he heroically made his

1548
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 2: stance known. Nonetheless SO i think here's what we have

1549
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 2: to accept is that what athlete activism looks like now

1550
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 2: is very different than what it used to look. Like,

1551
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 2: because of, course you're alluding to Maybe Jim brown And

1552
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:00,040
Speaker 2: Muhammad ali And Wilma rudolph AND.

1553
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 1: Althea gibson And Arthur.

1554
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 2: ASH i think the money has certainly changed and influenced

1555
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 2: whether athletes feel comfortable and empowered enough to say certain

1556
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 2: things in these. Spaces BUT i think twenty twenty was

1557
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 2: a real turning. Point AND i think even what happened

1558
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 2: To Colin kaepernick was a real turning point because a

1559
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 2: lot of athletes saw what happened to, him and on

1560
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 2: some end you could argue that it was maybe discouraging

1561
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 2: for the athletes who maybe wanted to speak, up but

1562
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 2: they saw how it cost him his career and they

1563
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 2: decided against. It BUT i think it was more people

1564
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:36,839
Speaker 2: encouraged by it than discouraged by. It and of COURSE

1565
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 2: i think in twenty twenty that level of athlete activism was.

1566
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 2: Incredible it was really at its. HEIGHT i THINK covid

1567
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 2: had a lot to do with, it because you had

1568
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 2: THE nba and THE wnba both in, bubbles and that

1569
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 2: is rare because rarely do leagues that size you get

1570
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 2: all the players in one, area and so they were

1571
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 2: able to kind of mobilize in a different. Way you

1572
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 2: saw there was a game stoppage or refusal to play

1573
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 2: after what happened To Jacob. Blake now it's a question

1574
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:12,640
Speaker 2: of what will athlete activism look like in this stage

1575
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 2: Of america because now we have a polarizing president who

1576
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 2: will be returning to. OFFICE a lot of black athletes

1577
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 2: made him know how they feel about him before during

1578
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 2: the first, presidency and so you wonder if there will

1579
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,679
Speaker 2: be that same energy there to keep. FIGHTING i wish

1580
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 2: it weren't so reactive because a lot of times we

1581
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 2: see athletes who are often responding to things that have

1582
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: happened on a wider, scale responding to something Like Trayvon

1583
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 2: martin or you know what happened To Sondra bland or

1584
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 2: any number of cases From George floyd To Eric, garner

1585
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 2: like they're always, responding and SO i would like to

1586
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 2: see more proactive behavior from, Athletes but you, know we

1587
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 2: have to be fair about.

1588
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 1: It just because they.

1589
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 2: Have platforms doesn't mean they're able or willing to be

1590
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 2: the voice for these.

1591
01:26:57,880 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 1: Issues you.

1592
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 2: KNOW i think there's a reason why there's only certain

1593
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 2: athletes who can speak to sort of these larger social

1594
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 2: justice issues that are that are, happening BECAUSE i don't,

1595
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 2: think you, know everybody is equipped to do, that and

1596
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 2: SO i think what has to happen when there is

1597
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 2: an athlete who does believe and supports a cause and

1598
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:18,679
Speaker 2: it's vocal about that, cause it's important that you show

1599
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 2: that support because understand that other athletes are watching, too

1600
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 2: and if they sense that it is polarizing or creates,

1601
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 2: BACKLASH i think it just discourages them from having and

1602
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 2: finding their. Voice SO i still think that's, there that

1603
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,719
Speaker 2: voice you speak. OF i just think it's very different

1604
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:42,479
Speaker 2: now because so much about sports has kind of changed.

1605
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 2: Overall SO i try not to be too tough on,

1606
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 2: athletes BUT i do recognize, that you, know they could

1607
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 2: do certainly a lot of good with their, platforms especially

1608
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,759
Speaker 2: speaking out about. Things you know that most vulnerable people

1609
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 2: don't get an opportunity to have that big of a.

1610
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 2: Megaphone so thank you for your, question and HOPE i

1611
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 2: gave you somewhat of a coherent. Answer, now if you

1612
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 2: would like to ask me a, question you can email

1613
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 2: me your question or send me a video with your.

1614
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:14,759
Speaker 2: Question but if you send me a, video make sure

1615
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 2: it's thirty seconds or. Less send your questions to spolitics

1616
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:21,639
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four at gmail dot. Com That's politics twenty

1617
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 2: twenty four at gmail dot.

1618
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:25,640
Speaker 1: Com that's s po l t I.

1619
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 2: Cs also make sure You Followspolitics pod On instagram at

1620
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 2: spolitics pod and on. TikTok a new episode Of spolitics

1621
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 2: drops Every. Thursday it's available wherever you get your, podcasts

1622
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 2: and also On. iHeart this Is politics where sports and

1623
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:42,600
Speaker 2: politics don't.

1624
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: Just, mix they.

1625
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 2: Matter spolitics is the production Of iHeart podcast And The Unbothered.

1626
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 2: Network i'm your Host Jamel. Hill executive producer Is Taylor.

1627
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 2: Schakog Lucas hymen Is head Of audio and executive. Producer

1628
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 2: Megan armstrong is associate. Producer original music For politics provided

1629
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 2: By Kyle viz from WIZ fx