Speaker 1: Welcome to had a Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Speaker 1: Today we're talking about the Save Seesaw brand, warmth and
Speaker 1: money avoidance.
Speaker 2: Happy Friday, everybody, it's the Is there a name for
Speaker 2: the day after the fourth of July? Joel? Other than
Speaker 2: the fifth? There's no How do you say July in Spanish?
Speaker 2: You took Spanish, I should know that June is like
Speaker 2: junior July.
Speaker 1: I should know that too.
Speaker 2: Wholio, who is really? I think so nice?
Speaker 1: Guess, but I feel like it's the slowest day.
Speaker 2: It's like it's the slowest day of like the entire summer,
Speaker 2: because it's the day after the fourth. A lot of
Speaker 2: folks have flex Fridays anyway, where they're kind of like,
Speaker 2: all right, we're gonna dip out of town earlier for vacation.
Speaker 2: There's like nothing getting done.
Speaker 1: Today and celebration hangover and we.
Speaker 2: Ran our or you in your first ten k. So
Speaker 2: congrats to everybody who completed the peach tree. A lot
Speaker 2: of people running some prs.
Speaker 1: Heck yeah, fourth Joly, it's like a big and running.
Speaker 1: Apparently he was back in vogue. I didn't realize this
Speaker 1: is becoming a thing again.
Speaker 2: It's a new thing called yogging.
Speaker 1: It's like it feels like it's nineteen eightyes, Portland, but
Speaker 1: all across the United States. Yeah, so we've got a
Speaker 1: lot to get to on this episode.
Speaker 2: Spontane Era.
Speaker 1: That's right, you're growing your prefontein stash right now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I wonder if that's the inspiration behind me
Speaker 2: when I did as a joke. Yeah, but it's kind
Speaker 2: of sticking around a little bit, all right.
Speaker 1: I keep it around me. I like it. I think
Speaker 1: mustaches are sophisticated. Uh oh, real quick, Matt. We just
Speaker 1: got back from vacation too, and you took a week
Speaker 1: off in Michigan. I took a week, took the family
Speaker 1: down to Tybee Island, just outside of Savannah, and I
Speaker 1: ended up going to a Savannah Bananas game. Thanks to
Speaker 1: listener Gary, who's been emailing us for years.
Speaker 2: He stayed in.
Speaker 1: Contact and he was like, Hey, if you ever want
Speaker 1: to go to a Banana's game, let me know. And
Speaker 1: I never want to go to Brads game again now
Speaker 1: because banana ball is so much more fun than traditional baseball.
Speaker 2: So this is why I need to make sure that
Speaker 2: the first baseball game I take the kids too is
Speaker 2: an actual baseball game, because once she get yeah, I've
Speaker 2: heard that about the Savannah Bananas. Once you go there,
Speaker 2: the kids are never going to want to actually go
Speaker 2: to a real, boring MLB baseball game.
Speaker 1: And basically, did you reach out to him proactively?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, Well, he had told me,
Speaker 1: if you're ever in town, you want to go to
Speaker 1: Banana's game, let me know, just give me heads up.
Speaker 1: So I gave him like a month or two heads up,
Speaker 1: and he was.
Speaker 2: Like, great, I want to go to a Banana's game.
Speaker 1: Because apparently they're like almost impossible to get those tickets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was talking to my brother in law sister
Speaker 2: in law. They lived near Savannah.
Speaker 1: You want to go like gary A.
Speaker 2: Evidently folks buying like a year in advance, Like they
Speaker 2: hit and then everyone pounces on them.
Speaker 1: And it's an atmosphere, it's a vibe and it's worth
Speaker 1: checking out for sure. And Major League Baseball?
Speaker 2: Is that where you got the Justin Bieber song stuck
Speaker 2: in your head? That it was they're playing music the
Speaker 2: whole time you mentioned that, I'm like, what Justin Bieber song?
Speaker 2: And you're like, you know you hear about it when
Speaker 2: you're just out and about. I'm like, no, no, there
Speaker 2: was so.
Speaker 1: Many songs I listened to that night that I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I remember this. I've heard this before. But I'm so
Speaker 1: out of don't know what's going on with popular music,
Speaker 1: but Savannah bananas. Major League Baseball could stand to learn
Speaker 1: a lot because it's there's such a chasm, such a
Speaker 1: gap between the player and the fan, and they just
Speaker 1: they don't there is none of that exists in banana ball.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 1: Players are in the stands, they're outside signing autographs at
Speaker 1: the end of the game, and I'm like, it's just
Speaker 1: torn down that wall. Yeah, it's way more fun.
Speaker 2: Well, I will say that they I mean was it?
Speaker 2: Last year was the first season that they instituted the
Speaker 2: pitch clock, shot clock, the pitch clock plus the larger
Speaker 2: bases to allow for more stolen bases, and that alone
Speaker 2: significantly decreased the length of a game. Yea, so well,
Speaker 2: banana ball it's two hours. Platt like you, no matter what,
Speaker 2: don't go past two hours. Really, Yeah, so they just
Speaker 2: stop it. They stop it. Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of cool too. You know, when you're
Speaker 1: getting out of there, you start at seven. You're done
Speaker 1: at nine. Stick around for an autograph if you want,
Speaker 1: then you peace out. So it's delightful, all right, But
Speaker 1: we digress. We're glad to be back, glad to be
Speaker 1: talking about money again. And let's get to the saving
Speaker 1: of stories we found interesting this week how they pertained
Speaker 1: to your personal finances. We have to start off talking
Speaker 1: about student loans. Student loan forgiveness, of course, as everyone knows,
Speaker 1: was a bust. It was shut down by the Supreme Court,
Speaker 1: much to the stratgrin of the Biden administration. And then
Speaker 1: the Safe Plan was another attempt by the President and
Speaker 1: the Department of Education to at least reduce the burden
Speaker 1: of student loan payments by lowering payments for the vast
Speaker 1: majority of people, some people down to zero dollar payments,
Speaker 1: while also shortening that forgiveness timeline. Well, just as it
Speaker 1: was about to be fully implemented, the legal rug was
Speaker 1: kind of sort of pulled out from under the Save
Speaker 1: Plan as well. Eighteen states have sued over the President's
Speaker 1: lack of authority essentially to push through a generous plan
Speaker 1: like this without the aid of Congress, without any sort
Speaker 1: of congressional approval, making a law and it is kind
Speaker 1: of tenuous.
Speaker 2: Matt.
Speaker 1: I guess the Save Plan it's legal standing because it
Speaker 1: didn't originate from Congress or from legislation, and so I
Speaker 1: think the main beef, it seems like, in these lawsuits
Speaker 1: is with the accelerat forgiveness timeline. And so multiple judges
Speaker 1: agreed with that petition by the States and they put
Speaker 1: at least part of the Safe Plan on ice for
Speaker 1: the time being, and then and then on Sunday, another
Speaker 1: court ruled that this save Plan can move ahead. So
Speaker 1: which constructed. Yeah, it feels like whiplash. And I know
Speaker 1: anybody out there with student loans, especially since July was
Speaker 1: going to be the month and still is going to
Speaker 1: be the month. Now the payments take on this new
Speaker 1: lower form. Exciting news for those folks this past Sunday
Speaker 1: because now they're they're going to be able to experience
Speaker 1: those lower payments at least for the time being.
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, So for I guess for all the folks
Speaker 2: out there who have student loans, you're probably wondering what
Speaker 2: this means for you. So the Biden administration they're pushing
Speaker 2: back or attempting to use legal recourse to ensure that
Speaker 2: Save remains fully implemented. They can't use the debt forgiveness
Speaker 2: portion of save at least for now, but the payment
Speaker 2: for many will be reduced dramatically according to the new
Speaker 2: discretionary income rules and the final outcome for the tenure
Speaker 2: forgiveness timeline that remains to be seen. But for the
Speaker 2: time being, no matter what your income level is, if
Speaker 2: you are enrolled in the safe play and your payment
Speaker 2: it's gonna be zero dollars because you'll technically be pushed
Speaker 2: into forbearance by the powers that be. So basically, as
Speaker 2: they're arguing over this, it's like, Okay, everything is going
Speaker 2: to be put on hold again. Payments are going to
Speaker 2: be on pause until further notice.
Speaker 1: That's the last thing I read was basically not just
Speaker 1: that some people, a few million people with incomes and
Speaker 1: family sizes that that made them qualify under the discretionary
Speaker 1: income rules, not just them, not just those folks, would
Speaker 1: experience a zero dollar payment, but that potentially everybody who's
Speaker 1: enrolled and saved is going to experience zero dollar payments
Speaker 1: for the time being while this gets while in the.
Speaker 2: Courts, exactly, Yeah, and not to get political too, but
Speaker 2: like I hate this for folks who hold student loans,
Speaker 2: because even the top Democratic official leader, Nancy Pelosi, like
Speaker 2: last was it last year or a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: said that this is not something that the president can do,
Speaker 2: but then they just they try to push forward with
Speaker 2: it anyway. And so it just felt like a false promise.
Speaker 2: And that's the part of it that I hate so much,
Speaker 2: that folks are counting on this forgiveness on just some
Speaker 2: of the different promises that that we're going to be made. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know. I just hate it full
Speaker 2: as opposed to it actually going through congressional action, them
Speaker 2: actually voting on it, as opposed to the executive branch
Speaker 2: unilaterally doing it on the rim.
Speaker 1: It's like telling your kid you're going to go get
Speaker 1: an ice cream and then being like, psych not gonna
Speaker 1: get checks, scream and how disappointed are they? Whereas if
Speaker 1: you'd never say anything in the first place and you
Speaker 1: just don't get ice cream, like they don't know any.
Speaker 2: Would have been better for them to have never known.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we don't know how this is going
Speaker 1: to shake out. My guess is that parts of this
Speaker 1: save plan are going to be implemented, and they are
Speaker 1: being implemented as it stands right now, but what's going
Speaker 1: to happen ultimately still remains to be seen. And so
Speaker 1: I think right now the best course of action is
Speaker 1: to assume that you're going to be paying your full
Speaker 1: student loan payment and to bank that for the time being,
Speaker 1: not to assume that it's going away. I just want
Speaker 1: to I wouldn want to count my chickens.
Speaker 2: Before they have, yes, which is what we said from
Speaker 2: the very beginning, like literally back during COVID, during the pandemic,
Speaker 2: as the forbearans, as payments were paused, we said, hey,
Speaker 2: keep setting that money aside, pay yourself, put that into
Speaker 2: high yield savings, and then when the time comes, you'll
Speaker 2: get to you know, you'll see what it is that
Speaker 2: you'll have to do with that money.
Speaker 1: Don't don't treat it as an excuse to spend more.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: If you're going to want to invest more, that's fine,
Speaker 1: I guess, but don't inflate your lifestyle. Make sure you
Speaker 1: at least retain the ability to pay your student loans
Speaker 1: when that payment comes back. But for the time being,
Speaker 1: the safe plan is kind of sort of mostly on.
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about cell phones maths. A new
Speaker 1: survey from whistle Out. It's a cool name for a website.
Speaker 1: They basically document the price of cell phone service and
Speaker 1: what's happening in the cell phone sphere. And they have
Speaker 1: a new annual overspending report, that's what they call it.
Speaker 1: And they found that Americans are wasting fifteen hundred bucks
Speaker 1: a year on cell phone service. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that would have been your guest, like the average American,
Speaker 1: mat was the average Americans spending or wasting on cell
Speaker 1: phone service? I don't think I would have said it
Speaker 1: with that much, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What they cited in this survey was rising monthly costs,
Speaker 1: which contributed to a lack of affordability, which also shocks me,
Speaker 1: given the reality that you and I have seen prices
Speaker 1: decreasing the exact opposite. Yeah, we see prices going down. Actually,
Speaker 1: well everything else has gone up in price. Cell phone
Speaker 1: service has basically withstood the inflation gauntlet all together. But
Speaker 1: whistle out found that the average American I'm quoting here,
Speaker 1: the average American currently spends one hundred and fifty seven
Speaker 1: dollars a month on a plan from a major carrier
Speaker 1: that would that's like, that's the crux of the issue
Speaker 1: here in their report?
Speaker 2: Did that also include the price of like a phone
Speaker 2: or something like? That's I don't know, that's the part
Speaker 2: I don't understand. I know, I don't understand how that's possible. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it just makes me slightly questioned, whistle out and
Speaker 2: their motives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, how are you coming up with this data?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so maybe it's not as bad as
Speaker 1: they're actually making it, you know, making it sound, because
Speaker 1: I can't. I haven't met anybody who pays that much
Speaker 1: for their cell phone service. I've met people paying sixty
Speaker 1: to seventy eighty bucks a month, but one hundred fifty
Speaker 1: seven is insane. And if that's the average, how's that possible?
Speaker 2: Sure? But even still, this gives us a good excuse
Speaker 2: to talk about the more affordable options out there, because
Speaker 2: fortunately the tide is changing. The big guys are losing
Speaker 2: market share, and you know, us Americans, we're starting to
Speaker 2: realize just how much we can say by avoiding the
Speaker 2: big names, the big name brands that are constantly advertising
Speaker 2: by hopping over to an MV and zero.
Speaker 1: That's, by the way, what's you're paying?
Speaker 2: Format?
Speaker 1: You mentioned the advertising, the guys that sponsor stadiums, the
Speaker 1: guys that they're running the commercials during your favorite sports program.
Speaker 2: Basically, the more you know about it, the more automatically is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: forty seven percent of Americans now get their cell service
Speaker 2: from a discounter like Visible Mint, some of the other
Speaker 2: great boots. That's another boost. Yeah, although, so I noticed
Speaker 2: that Google five they recently increased price on some of
Speaker 2: their multi person plans, making them a little less enticing,
Speaker 2: because that's one that I mean, we were considering ceping
Speaker 2: out with our wives. Slightly less interested in that now.
Speaker 2: But another cheap and this is a newer player, but
Speaker 2: a service provider that's been on our recently is US Mobile.
Speaker 2: I'm not actually totally sure how long they've been around,
Speaker 2: but they offer an unlimited prepaid plan for seventeen dollars
Speaker 2: and fifty cents a month. That's good, which is really
Speaker 2: good man. And yeah, I think we've got like another
Speaker 2: have like another month or two cople months with Mint.
Speaker 2: I think Mint who has been great. I literally don't
Speaker 2: have any complaints with Mint. But I'm like, all right,
Speaker 2: well we know about Mint because of Ryan Reynolds, and
Speaker 2: I don't know like maybe their prices, I will say,
Speaker 2: the plan prices haven't gone up, but they have reduced
Speaker 2: the if you add on data, the cost on that
Speaker 2: has gone up, or or maybe they've reduced the amount
Speaker 2: of data you get. But even and you and I
Speaker 2: were not hich folks will complain about because they're like,
Speaker 2: I think it's literally I think it's twenty dollars for
Speaker 2: an extra three gigs of data. Wow, which it does
Speaker 2: seem like a lot, right, but even still, like, let's's
Speaker 2: imagine you're on like a ten gig fifteen gig a
Speaker 2: month plan prepaid throughout the year. The ability to save
Speaker 2: like more than one hundred dollars every single month, with
Speaker 2: the off chance maybe once or twice a year that
Speaker 2: you might add more data for twenty bucks, you definitely
Speaker 2: come out ahead.
Speaker 1: But so Emily she we're on the five gig plane,
Speaker 1: which is fifteen bucks a month, which is cheaper than
Speaker 1: the US mobile plan you just mentioned. But there has
Speaker 1: been a time or two if we're adding data. Emily
Speaker 1: in particular has run out of data and she's like,
Speaker 1: add me some data, and she's like, I'm sure she's annoyed,
Speaker 1: why are you cheaping out? And going the and so
Speaker 1: I think, oh, we don't need to do this, and
Speaker 1: we don't need unlimited data, that's for sure, because again
Speaker 1: and most people don't. They're on Wi Fi at work,
Speaker 1: at home, and so most folks unless you're just add
Speaker 1: the extra data streaming YouTube while you're driving, which ISA, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're going to get arrested for that or maybe not
Speaker 1: a rest of but you're gonna get all. Don't do that.
Speaker 1: But so I think with the extra when you pay
Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty bucks to top off your data, and
Speaker 1: even if it's just a one month or two months
Speaker 1: out of the year, it starts to make that seventeen
Speaker 1: dollars a month unlimited make a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 2: An extra two to fifty a months times twelve. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I actually hopped on my usage or whatever on
Speaker 2: and I noticed so when we were when we are
Speaker 2: down in Savannah, we are up in the woods of
Speaker 2: Michigan and where we're staying didn't have Wi Fi and
Speaker 2: we barely had cell phone service. It was like snail's
Speaker 2: pace cell phone coverage. But even still, what that meant
Speaker 2: is anything that I was consuming was coming through data,
Speaker 2: and I've got like twenty five days left, basically a
Speaker 2: whole month, and I'm like, I've only got like one
Speaker 2: gig left. I didn't realize how much data I use,
Speaker 2: So I'm definitely gonna need to make sure, yeah, doing
Speaker 2: big downloads or anything like that while I am connected
Speaker 2: to Wi Fi. But even still, let's say I hit
Speaker 2: that cap in next week or something like that, it's
Speaker 2: still gonna be worth it to add that extra three
Speaker 2: gigs of data for twenty bucks versus going with one
Speaker 2: of the big players.
Speaker 1: Well, and it used to be, and it is with Mint,
Speaker 1: and it is with a lot of these other players.
Speaker 1: It's something close to double the cost to get the unlimited.
Speaker 1: But now that Unlimited is going down in price, I
Speaker 1: see the wisdom and going directly with one of those
Speaker 1: plans if it's cheap enough. So US Mobile we're checking
Speaker 1: out will tramp a link in the show notes for you.
Speaker 1: All Right, Mattlis talk about brands and brand loyalty. I'm
Speaker 1: sure every single person listening to this podcast can name
Speaker 1: a company or two that brings a smile out their face, right,
Speaker 1: I could name a few myself, whether it's a generous
Speaker 1: return policy, one of a kind goods or service.
Speaker 2: Thinking of Costco. I'm thinking of all d yeah, the
Speaker 2: return policy.
Speaker 1: Or even brains that just make cool stuff that are
Speaker 1: off the beaten path, Like as a want to be runner,
Speaker 1: someone who's getting into running, there's a company you're not.
Speaker 2: I want to dude, you run. Now you are a runner.
Speaker 2: We'll see except the identificate, the uh. I don't know
Speaker 2: that identity, not until I grow a stash like hers.
Speaker 2: If only it could be as thick as prefontame.
Speaker 1: Some day you'll get there.
Speaker 2: You'll get there.
Speaker 1: But there's a company I found recently called runner Are
Speaker 1: in in Are and they make you would look at
Speaker 1: these hats and you'd be like, that's so jo, that's
Speaker 1: so because they're bright, they're ostentatious, they're over the top
Speaker 1: and ridiculous, but they're cool.
Speaker 2: I just need to get you a pair of those
Speaker 2: some bright hokahs. What was that?
Speaker 1: I mean, funky stuff is my bier. So yeah, those
Speaker 1: are the kind of things like maybe it is just
Speaker 1: something that's one of the kind nobody else makes it
Speaker 1: like that, or just great customer service, right, that's something
Speaker 1: else you think of Chick fil A. It's the my pleasure,
Speaker 1: it's the trying to create raving fans. People have loyalty,
Speaker 1: strong loyalty to companies like that, and so if you
Speaker 1: were to have an issue with one of these admirable companies,
Speaker 1: you'd likely find that you were able to get it
Speaker 1: resolved without too much trouble, which only adheres you to
Speaker 1: that company even more, not necessarily just because they make
Speaker 1: cool stuff, but because customer service is at the forefront
Speaker 1: of their priority list. And this is what's known as
Speaker 1: brand warmth. And the best companies, of course, have this
Speaker 1: in spades. A recent white paper found that customers report
Speaker 1: feedback to these brands, to these brands that they feel
Speaker 1: like they have almost like a friendship or relationship with,
Speaker 1: even more than they would to a company they consider
Speaker 1: to be uncaring or they're more likely not to just
Speaker 1: give feedback, but they're more likely to complain. And so
Speaker 1: the reason they complain and don't just offer feedback is
Speaker 1: because they know they're going to be shut down cold
Speaker 1: if they try to offer constructive criticism. Like you think
Speaker 1: about the exact opposite of brand warmth, Matt, you think
Speaker 1: probably Comcast, Right, that's probably one of those brands at
Speaker 1: least in when.
Speaker 2: Not very warm feelings. Yeah, when you mentioned.
Speaker 1: Consumer Reports used to have this blog and they would
Speaker 1: identify the worst company in the world every single year,
Speaker 1: and Comcast was typically in the top four, often number one.
Speaker 1: But think about another brand, maybe, ARII, you're probably gonna
Speaker 1: get a fair hearing if you say, based on just
Speaker 1: their general policy, but then also based on their warmth
Speaker 1: towards their customers. And so I think it makes me think,
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to beat this wiki wheel with brands,
Speaker 1: especially that you love and admire, and do it in
Speaker 1: a feedback oriented approach instead of a complaining sort of approach.
Speaker 1: They're often going to respond fondly to that. They're gonna respond.
Speaker 2: Well, well, yeah, I mean, I think it has a
Speaker 2: lot to do with the fact that when you have
Speaker 2: a company or a brand that you love, you want
Speaker 2: them to continue to perform. Well, you know, like Kate
Speaker 2: recently took the kids to see a movie. They went
Speaker 2: to this sort of discount movie theater and she was
Speaker 2: just like, this is the first time she had been there,
Speaker 2: and she said, we didn't make sure this play sticks around.
Speaker 1: I guess they had a deal on Tuesdays. I guess
Speaker 1: it was for kids where they get a two dollars movies.
Speaker 2: I forget the price, but you get a drink and
Speaker 2: a a popcorn, like it's all basically included, and they
Speaker 2: count on you doing the upgrade. They count on you
Speaker 2: getting like pretzel bites or something like that. But it's like,
Speaker 2: oh no, no, you stick with what's included for free.
Speaker 2: But it takes supporting those kind of companies. And I
Speaker 2: think when folks reach out to brands that they love,
Speaker 2: it's in an effort to see them do better, which
Speaker 2: makes me think we haven't mentioned this recently, but if
Speaker 2: you have feedback for us, of course we would love
Speaker 2: to hear from you. Just email us at how tomneypod
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. Because we make mistakes, we don't
Speaker 2: always do things perfectly, and we truly are trying to improve,
Speaker 2: just like you're trying to run faster jol like, like
Speaker 2: there are things and goals that we have set up
Speaker 2: before us, and we want to make sure that we're
Speaker 2: continuing to deliver a superior podcast where we try to
Speaker 2: write out there to every single one of those emails
Speaker 2: that comes in, we try to we read something up
Speaker 2: on our spam. We read them all, yeah, all the
Speaker 2: ones that don't get filtered. We certainly read and not
Speaker 2: even go looking in the Gmail spam. Yeah, sometimes heavy
Speaker 2: handed with what they consider spam.
Speaker 1: And we'll take we'll take complaint sand feedback either one,
Speaker 1: if you've got complain, if you like. There's somebody who
Speaker 1: left a review recently, Matt. They said that ouranguage has
Speaker 1: gotten more that.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what we said. Did we let some
Speaker 1: slip not that I know, Like I feel like we're
Speaker 1: pretty buttoned up when it comes to language. Ear mustol Okay.
Speaker 2: So the flip side of the coin is that when
Speaker 2: a company tries to sell itself as trustworthy but isn't,
Speaker 2: and that's the case for most of the companies that
Speaker 2: take that pack. There's a new study that finds that
Speaker 2: the use of the word trust in their marketing materials
Speaker 2: is associated with worse outcomes. They're the ones that receive
Speaker 2: more letters from the SEC asking them for marketing clarity,
Speaker 2: or their stock performs more poorly, they pay more in
Speaker 2: auditing fees, which of course is not a great sign.
Speaker 2: And I've always hated this sort of marketing and more
Speaker 2: it's kind of a red flag for me, Like you
Speaker 2: can think of just honest Hlary's use car lot, like
Speaker 2: the fact that you have to put honest in your name,
Speaker 2: it's not a great sign. Or it makes me think
Speaker 2: of even like security companies.
Speaker 1: Riot or like keeping your family safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when there are more ambiguous products or services
Speaker 2: I guess that are being delivered when trust is the
Speaker 2: main reason to do business with them, we would say
Speaker 2: be wary because we feel that trust is something that
Speaker 2: it's more earned as opposed to something that it's put
Speaker 2: out there in marketing materials. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If you hear like ads for the how of Money
Speaker 1: podcast and we're like, trust us. I mean that just
Speaker 1: to me, that's like, well, why, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know you yet.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: Like when companies put that front and center in their
Speaker 1: marketing efforts, I'm typically I don't know, I turn away
Speaker 1: from that. I think it for some people, maybe that
Speaker 1: seems to engender them to the brand. To me, it's
Speaker 1: always seemed to the opposite. And it's interesting to see
Speaker 1: some of this data that the companies that rely on
Speaker 1: that word to try to convince people to do business
Speaker 1: with them seem to be more suspect than companies that don't.
Speaker 1: So we've got more to get to on this episode,
Speaker 1: including we're going to talk about money avoidance and how
Speaker 1: it can create bigger problems down the line. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that and more. Right after this, we are back
Speaker 1: from the break and it is now time for the
Speaker 1: ludicrous headline of the week. This one is from the Journal.
Speaker 1: The headline reads, his ex is getting his one million
Speaker 1: dollar retirement account. They broke up in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that, Joel? What do you
Speaker 1: think of when you hear nineteen eighty nine? I think
Speaker 1: you know what I think of? Taylor Swift? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that's the only thing you can't think of. Ryan Adams
Speaker 1: covered that album. Who's one of my favorite artists? And
Speaker 1: now I don't listen to Ryan Adams anymore. He was like,
Speaker 1: literally my all time favorite for many years and now
Speaker 1: he's following off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't make the best choices, but hey, trust him, Joel.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's turned things around. So nineteen eighty nine, that
Speaker 2: was a long time ago. We are here for this
Speaker 2: financial drama that the Journal is reporting. But basically, this
Speaker 2: dude named Jeff and his lady friend named Margaret Ladynn.
Speaker 1: Except from that's like big Levowski, Right, there's my lady first.
Speaker 2: Is from the eighties. That's her name was Margaret. They
Speaker 2: dated for a while, and again this is almost forty
Speaker 2: years ago, but it was serious enough, at least at
Speaker 2: the time where he made her his sole beneficiary on
Speaker 2: his retirement account. Granted he didn't have a whole lot
Speaker 2: set aside. He was probably just like, oh, I love you,
Speaker 2: or maybe I think I do. They just dated for.
Speaker 1: Probably had like sixty bucks at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But this act that was made back in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven, so okay, they dated for a couple
Speaker 2: of years. There you go, but it was never updated again,
Speaker 2: and now she stands to inherit. I think it was
Speaker 2: actually more than the headline reads a million. I think
Speaker 2: at this point it's grown to be one point two
Speaker 2: or something. Yes, it's significantly more. So. Yeah, lucky for Margaret.
Speaker 1: Lucky Margaret for sure.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And the family, as you would imagine they document in
Speaker 1: the story, they're not happy about this, Matt. They're doing
Speaker 1: everything they can to try to go into the courts
Speaker 1: to get this overturned. Right. And the truth is, though,
Speaker 1: like we've said many times before, your beneficiary designation trump's
Speaker 1: what your will says, and so even though back in
Speaker 1: the day beneficiary designations were made on index cards, you
Speaker 1: didn't even do it on the internet because the internet
Speaker 1: didn't exist, Like, you couldn't go into Vanguard dot com,
Speaker 1: Fidelity dot com updated in mere seconds. Literally you had
Speaker 1: to go to like hr and get a new index card. Literally,
Speaker 1: his was written on a three and a half by
Speaker 1: five inch card, like, hey, hand me that one back,
Speaker 1: let me light this one in flames and hand you
Speaker 1: another one. That's not how it works anymore.
Speaker 2: Fortunately, probably did burn them because folks were smoking in
Speaker 2: the office, right.
Speaker 1: Exactly along with everything else, mad men Era, Well, let
Speaker 1: this be a lesson to us all. It is easier
Speaker 1: now than ever before to change your beneficiary, and it
Speaker 1: is incredibly important. Think about you know, Jeff's family here
Speaker 1: and Margaret's like apparently she wasn't talking to the journal,
Speaker 1: but her lawyers like, uh, I mean, clearly he made
Speaker 1: her the beneficiary, and so she wants this money and
Speaker 1: she's legally entitled to it, and I get by. The
Speaker 1: family has has their panties in a lot over this.
Speaker 1: They're not very happy. They're trying to pursue legal recourse
Speaker 1: to claw this money back, but they just I don't
Speaker 1: think there's gonna be much that can be done about this.
Speaker 2: It seems it's like it's a fairly ironclad thing. Do
Speaker 2: you think she should continue to what does she owe
Speaker 2: to the family? Do you think she'd just take my money?
Speaker 1: That's a really tough moral question, and as a judgment,
Speaker 1: if it was me, I would feel, really it would
Speaker 1: be hard for me to take that money.
Speaker 2: I don't think I could. Yeah, I think I would
Speaker 2: have to accept for the so I would feel differently.
Speaker 1: Okay, So sorry, if one of my ex girlfriends has
Speaker 1: done this, you go change your maneficiary so I don't
Speaker 1: have to go through this moral quandary.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here is there's no family. Well, like you
Speaker 2: say family, but it's his two brothers brothers. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's not.
Speaker 1: Like a wife and kids.
Speaker 2: Yes, I would feel one hundred percent differently about it
Speaker 2: if he had a wife, if he had some kids.
Speaker 2: But he just had another girlfriend a little bit further
Speaker 2: down the line, and that's it. And so the I'm
Speaker 2: just thinking about his brothers, and I can't imagine that
Speaker 2: they were counting on this money coming from their brother
Speaker 2: when he passed, and so legally, I just feels he's
Speaker 2: just it's owed to her, And I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think if I was her, it would also depend on
Speaker 2: my financial situation. I guess if I was her and
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the brothers and maybe they're not in
Speaker 2: the best financial situation and I was crushing it, I'd say,
Speaker 2: all right, guys, you know what, I totally understand. I'm
Speaker 2: not that seems like split sys generous thing to do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's two brothers, Hey how about we all go one
Speaker 2: third in on it. Plus, I guess the brothers are.
Speaker 1: Saying, we're doing what he would have wanted. But like,
Speaker 1: if you how do you know that?
Speaker 2: How do you know that? Yeah, you can't into it
Speaker 2: somebody else's desires and wishes And the fact that he
Speaker 2: never married anybody and had a family makes me think, man,
Speaker 2: maybe he was always like really torn up about it
Speaker 2: Margaret for years, and he left her on there because
Speaker 2: he truly wanted her to be set for life, way
Speaker 2: off into the future.
Speaker 1: But it is, you know, the ultimate lesson here is,
Speaker 1: too is to change your beneficiary on your retirement accounts
Speaker 1: to at least log in and look it up and
Speaker 1: see you even named anybody because you don't want this
Speaker 1: to go through some protracted legal process. Not only does
Speaker 1: it mean that the money that you have worked so
Speaker 1: tirelessly to save and invest and build up that it
Speaker 1: might not go to the person you intend, but also
Speaker 1: the people who love you the most have to endure
Speaker 1: the process of trying to figure this out after your passing.
Speaker 1: And so make it easy on that.
Speaker 2: Make it clear. Yea, yeah, totally. So what's going on
Speaker 2: here basically is inertia bias, which is a totally underestimated,
Speaker 2: underrated behavioral economics term. And when it comes to your
Speaker 2: wealth building journey, the things that we put in motion
Speaker 2: have a significant impact as to what it is that
Speaker 2: we continue to do. Just like in just case, he
Speaker 2: didn't change his beneficiary. He did that once and that
Speaker 2: just kind of carried on through his entire life.
Speaker 1: Is exactly the approach of most people. They signed on
Speaker 1: to their retirement plan, they name a beneficiary, and then they.
Speaker 2: Out of sight. It's a natural because yeah, you don't
Speaker 2: want to have to necessarily revisit those things. But automation
Speaker 2: is one of the things that can help us to
Speaker 2: overcome these human tendencies where you're able to make a
Speaker 2: one time smart decision that reduces the need for ongoing
Speaker 2: self discipline basically, and the same is true for automatic enrollment,
Speaker 2: which is now the default in retirement plans leading up
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty five, when the Secure Act two point
Speaker 2: zero automatic contribution mandate fully kicks in. The standard contribution
Speaker 2: percentage used to be three percent, but many companies have
Speaker 2: gone ahead and made six percent default contribution for new hires.
Speaker 2: This is according to data from Vanguard, which means that
Speaker 2: not only are folks now investing in their four to
Speaker 2: one k because that's the default, they're now auto investing
Speaker 2: at a higher percent of pay which is amazing. This
Speaker 2: is something that we love to see.
Speaker 1: And again we talk about how people, at least speaking
Speaker 1: for myself, knowing myself, a little lazy tendency to procrastinate,
Speaker 1: and so whatever I sign on and I see my
Speaker 1: first paycheck, it doesn't matter if I'm contributing three or
Speaker 1: six percent. For most people, they're not even real they
Speaker 1: don't even realize how much is going out, and they
Speaker 1: get used to that paycheck, and so whatever that default is,
Speaker 1: it's going to stay that way. Most people aren't going
Speaker 1: to go in there and change it unless they're their
Speaker 1: proactive type to increase their contributions. So interestingly enough, Vanguard
Speaker 1: also found that the average annual four oh one K
Speaker 1: contribution rate is eleven point seven percent of pay. So
Speaker 1: there are people who aren't just taking that automatic six
Speaker 1: which is a great baseline. They're going in and they're
Speaker 1: contributing even more to those retirement accounts, more than ever
Speaker 1: in human history, which is awesome. And a big part
Speaker 1: of that, by the way, is that default contribution rate
Speaker 1: going up, that many employees who would otherwise likely be
Speaker 1: contributing nothing are now stocking away. And Matt, I think
Speaker 1: that there's a lot that's made been made over the
Speaker 1: years about people not making enough to invest. It's not
Speaker 1: always that people don't have the money to put into
Speaker 1: the retirement account though right they often could if they
Speaker 1: had the education and maybe the spark.
Speaker 2: But you're just doing other things with their money, yep.
Speaker 1: And because like I said, if they got the smaller
Speaker 1: paycheck from the day one, they wouldn't realize any difference,
Speaker 1: and then they'd find just sublimely later down down the
Speaker 1: line that they have a significant amount of money saved
Speaker 1: up in their retirement accounts.
Speaker 2: So I think.
Speaker 1: Automatic enrollment and higher automatic contribution amounts are going to
Speaker 1: ensure that a whole lot more people are more prepared
Speaker 1: for retirement than the otherwise would be. This is great stuff.
Speaker 1: This is like societal goodness here, and this is private
Speaker 1: companies making helpful decisions and pushing their employees towards better behavior.
Speaker 2: That's right, man, All right, let's talk about interpersonal financial
Speaker 2: issues because money avoidance within relationships can create tension, you
Speaker 2: can create ongoing problems. This is literally why we talk
Speaker 2: about talking about money, and it's.
Speaker 1: Also why we've had so meta but it is necessary.
Speaker 2: We've had a whole lot of different folks on the show,
Speaker 2: like financial therapists specifically in order to address some of
Speaker 2: these underlying issues. Like so, for instance, if you've had
Speaker 2: like traumatic money experience, like you're not necessarily going to
Speaker 2: get past that just because you learned about the reality
Speaker 2: of compounding returns, you've learned about the twenty five times
Speaker 2: your annual expenses rule.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes talking through.
Speaker 2: Some of the issues that you might have. And there's
Speaker 2: a new report from experts over at Cornell and Yale,
Speaker 2: and they find that not unexpectedly, that people don't broach
Speaker 2: the topic of money with their significant other because they're
Speaker 2: nervous it's going to cause a fight. It's the literal
Speaker 2: anticipation of conflict that causes them to shove their concerns
Speaker 2: under the rug. And as we all know, of course,
Speaker 2: that's not helpful.
Speaker 1: Just to be assuming things under the rug isn't a
Speaker 1: good thing.
Speaker 2: Map exactly. That's when my wife tells me to clean,
Speaker 2: that's what I do, and she's like, it look so
Speaker 2: clean down here, and I'm like, don't lift the rug up.
Speaker 2: You can't kick the ice cube under the fridge. That's allowed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens all the time in our house too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. They it's that anticipation, like if I bring
Speaker 1: this up, it's going to cause stress, it's going to
Speaker 1: cause an emotional reaction from my partner or something like that.
Speaker 1: So why don't I just not tackle the subject at all?
Speaker 1: Mum's the word. And I think the first problem here
Speaker 1: is that you're assuming that a fight is going to
Speaker 1: occur if you bring up the topic. The truth is
Speaker 1: it might not. And the second you're only setting yourself
Speaker 1: up for future failure because at some point there's the
Speaker 1: big lump under the rug because you sweep more and
Speaker 1: more stuff underneath it, and then the lump has to
Speaker 1: be addressed, and it's become a more tenuous situation. The
Speaker 1: longer you neglect anything, the worse the problem tends to get.
Speaker 1: It's true with your health, your money, your relationship issues,
Speaker 1: and so I don't think it means you have to
Speaker 1: force the issue in the heat of the moment, like
Speaker 1: all right, well, tempers are, how right, now, let's talk
Speaker 1: about all of our worst money mistakes. The key, though,
Speaker 1: is to have those conversations more regularly when the stakes
Speaker 1: are lower. So using your goals and your dreams to
Speaker 1: jumpstart a money conversation, not harping on the mistakes of
Speaker 1: the person you love. That will set the tone for
Speaker 1: a better conversation that can move you forward in a
Speaker 1: positive manner. So like making changes to for spending habits,
Speaker 1: for instance, it's easier to do when there's something bigger
Speaker 1: that you're aiming for together, when you're on the same
Speaker 1: page and you're like, yeah, let's cut out of this
Speaker 1: some of the silly spending that we've been doing, because
Speaker 1: there are bigger fish we have the fry, there are
Speaker 1: bigger things we want to tackle and accomplished together, and
Speaker 1: so when the setting is calm and you're both ready
Speaker 1: for and expecting the conversation. I think you can make
Speaker 1: a lot of progress. And I think we want like
Speaker 1: a money date right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the tip is to get it on the calendar,
Speaker 1: to say, listen, I know now is not actually the
Speaker 1: best time, but what if next Friday night we put
Speaker 1: it on the calendar and instead of going out, we
Speaker 1: still we opened a nice bottle of the line and
Speaker 1: we talk about some of these money things. I've got
Speaker 1: a few things I want to tackle, and you just
Speaker 1: create an environment, a soft environment, to have some of
Speaker 1: those discussions, because avoiding the topic altogether sure isn't going
Speaker 1: to fix anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Or it doesn't have to be a bottle of
Speaker 2: nice one. It can just be some PBR if that's
Speaker 2: more your speed.
Speaker 1: I'm not against it, but I usually save that for
Speaker 1: music shows these days.
Speaker 2: True. Okay, while we're talking about relationships, let's talk about
Speaker 2: something that the Times documented, which is how Koreans are
Speaker 2: combining saving money and friendship in something that is called
Speaker 2: a k moyeme. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, and by the way, this is near and dear
Speaker 1: to your heart. Because you are of Korean descent, have sees.
Speaker 1: I saw this and I was like, friendship koreanness, it
Speaker 1: could be more. Matt's got Matt written all over it. Literally,
Speaker 1: Kate and I. So we had our week Kimchi on
Speaker 1: your Sabit, our weekly date night.
Speaker 2: Last night, and we hit up a new Korean pop
Speaker 2: up here in town that and they're going to open
Speaker 2: in the fall. It was very good. I am curious
Speaker 2: to see how American palettes to some legit Korean food.
Speaker 2: Though Kate and I loved it, I'm curious to try it. Actually,
Speaker 2: I snuffed a picture of the menu and send it
Speaker 2: to my mom and she was very happy. I'm so
Speaker 2: happy you have a place to go with you and
Speaker 2: your family. It's awesome. But basically what these are, they're
Speaker 2: essentially like a savings bucket. They're like sinking funds that
Speaker 2: you contribute to monthly alongside your friends in order to
Speaker 2: save for shared or common mutual goals you might have.
Speaker 2: And so not only are you able to say, for
Speaker 2: let's say, a shared experience like this can be something
Speaker 2: as big as a vacation or even as small as
Speaker 2: a barbecue. But many said that the mutual goal and
Speaker 2: the repeated savings it kept their friendship close as well,
Speaker 2: which is really fascinating. Do you think this is something
Speaker 2: that could work here in the States? Drole.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if we have the
Speaker 1: cultural ability. Like it's very different sensibilities over there than
Speaker 1: it is here. We're so much more individualistic.
Speaker 2: But I like kind of suffered to do some of
Speaker 2: these more collective action things here in the US with
Speaker 2: so with so much diversity, right, Like you go to
Speaker 2: a well even articulture that's plants or whatever, but like
Speaker 2: you go to somewhere like the culture is so homogenous,
Speaker 2: it's easier to implement things. It makes me think of
Speaker 2: like the different studies coming out of Scandinavia and it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can pull off taxes like that. There are expected
Speaker 2: more's and norms that allow that to work, whereas in
Speaker 2: the US it's a little more different.
Speaker 1: They tout the public education in Finland as being top notch,
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, there's four million people like and
Speaker 1: they're they're more similar. We're a melting pot. It's it's
Speaker 1: much it's a much more difficult things that task that
Speaker 1: we have at hand. And you're right, I like this,
Speaker 1: and I think there are probably ways that we can
Speaker 1: adopt it to our own friend groups. And I think
Speaker 1: really too, what they're saying is like the I don't know,
Speaker 1: having something that you're building towards with other people, it
Speaker 1: can keep those relationships intact for listener, high school friends.
Speaker 2: Accountability, and I think that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2: But I do I think it can be done with
Speaker 2: closer friends because that's what's required because since we do,
Speaker 2: since we all do have various backgrounds. If you it
Speaker 2: means though that like your friendship of that core group
Speaker 2: needs to be incredibly healthy, which means you're talking about
Speaker 2: important issues but not limited to your personal finances, because
Speaker 2: that means you are able to work towards something. And
Speaker 2: in my mind that is the biggest hurdle because as
Speaker 2: we've seen over I mean what it was all the
Speaker 2: research pointing to declining rates of close friendships and so
Speaker 2: we're not connected more than anything. That's probably what's going
Speaker 2: to keep folks from doing that. But then I've maybe
Speaker 2: the argument could also be made that, hey, you don't
Speaker 2: have to have that before you do this. Maybe by
Speaker 2: implementing this sort of like what you're saying, that can
Speaker 2: allow folks to I don't know, it could draw people closer.
Speaker 1: So maybe you don't have to create your own de
Speaker 1: moin did I say right close? Close enough? Maybe you
Speaker 1: don't have to create that, but maybe it is anything
Speaker 1: you can do to kind of spur on personal finance
Speaker 1: conversations and creating more talking about things that matter more
Speaker 1: than just what you watched on TV. All the Bears great,
Speaker 1: I agree, but still there are better things worth talking about.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting to see how the kind of the
Speaker 1: bondedness you can feel actually money with. Katie had a
Speaker 1: great article recently, Matt just about the fact that we
Speaker 1: pay for everything in our culture these days and we
Speaker 1: don't rely on our friendship to the same extent.
Speaker 2: I think she's spot on.
Speaker 1: I think that is something that we just asking for
Speaker 1: a favor from a friend, like we're so reticent, so
Speaker 1: hesitant to do that. But that's what builds community, that's
Speaker 1: what builds a real relationship. And we've commoditized everything and
Speaker 1: they're downside to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are all right, that's gonna be it. Though
Speaker 2: for today's Friday flight, we hope you have a fantastic
Speaker 2: weekend and we'll see you back here on Monday. Reach
Speaker 2: out to us hown Moneypod at gmail dot com. If
Speaker 2: you have some feedback, if you've got nothing but good
Speaker 2: things to say, share it with the world over at
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. But buddy,
Speaker 2: let's get out of here. Until next time, Best friends out,
Speaker 2: Best friends Out,