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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it is Behind the Bastards, a podcast that

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Speaker 2: is always opened with a mixture of consummate skill and

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Speaker 2: of course inimitable charisma by myself Robert Evans. Also with

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Speaker 2: me on the call today, Sophie Leechderman, my producer, and

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Speaker 2: our lovely guest, Sophia Alexandra Sophia, can you can you

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Speaker 2: do a good? Can you do a good?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, it was good.

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Speaker 3: It was good, Thank you so much. I actually, in

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Speaker 3: my free time I moonlight as the kool Aid man.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I had heard that.

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Speaker 1: I had heard that I will not be doing that

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Speaker 1: because I would like to be excluded from this narrative.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Sophie's just saying that because she drives the Askermeyer

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Speaker 2: Wiener bus and doesn't want anyone to.

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Speaker 3: Know she's mad, because she's actually cap'n crunch. You think

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Speaker 3: you think?

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Speaker 1: You think if I was driving that, Jamie Loft just

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know.

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Speaker 2: That's why you got to keep it a secret. Jamie

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Speaker 2: can't be trusted with that knowledge. Yeah, who knows what

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Speaker 2: she'd do.

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Speaker 1: She probably God damn mine, she'd probably write a book

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Speaker 1: and then go on a comedy tour about it.

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Speaker 2: That's right, clothes.

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Speaker 3: How fucking horny that automobile is.

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Speaker 2: It is pretty funny. Anytime you see that thing going

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Speaker 2: into a tunnel. It's a good time. Just good clean fun,

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Speaker 2: just good clean fun. So we're back and we're talking

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Speaker 2: about our boy Bill Bailey. So after nineteen twenty one,

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Speaker 2: Marie Curie has done her big, her big show. Bailey

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Speaker 2: has had a couple of cons get busted by the government.

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Speaker 2: But he is. He is off to the races now

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Speaker 2: making radioactive gizmos to make sure people have all of

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Speaker 2: the radium they need in their diets for optimum health.

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Speaker 2: He started selling Yeah, what a hero. He starts selling

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Speaker 2: a radioactive paperweight called the Bioay, which ensured any working

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Speaker 2: man could keep a healthy dose of uranium poisoning at

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Speaker 2: his desk while he worked. Hell yeah, efficiency, that's what

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Speaker 2: you need. He sold a radioactive water solution Befoorinator, which

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Speaker 2: is made with putting it's basically putting thorium in your water.

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Speaker 2: And then there was the ad Dino Ray, his next

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Speaker 2: foray into the dick medicine game. The a Dinner Ray

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Speaker 2: was a radioactive belt clip that was meant to beam

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Speaker 2: straight radiation into your penis. So really just a great

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Speaker 2: set of products there, Right, he invented the early cell phone.

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Speaker 2: You know, it.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like he was a plant by like feminists to

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Speaker 1: be like, yeah, the only way we can get free,

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Speaker 1: if we're being honest, is we got to murder.

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Speaker 3: Some of these men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just like a little bit at a time in

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Speaker 1: unseen ways, like oh, you know how they get to

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Speaker 1: go outside the house and work. I propose you put

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Speaker 1: one in a paper weight.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy your work, bitch.

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Speaker 2: You know what else? They love belts, blood story someone

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Speaker 2: in there. You know, it's so fucking like I keep

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Speaker 2: thinking about, Yeah, there's like some of these weirdo right

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Speaker 2: wing guys will like flip out every now sperm councer

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Speaker 2: lower than ever in the West, and you know, like, man,

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Speaker 2: we made it through the era where people were just

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Speaker 2: putting shooting straight thorium into their penises, Like it's fine,

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Speaker 2: We'll make it through microplastics. As a species. I'm not worried,

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Speaker 2: you know, not that there's not health consequences, but people

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Speaker 2: aren't going to stop breeding just because we've poisoned ourselves.

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Speaker 2: We do that a lot.

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Speaker 1: No fucking intensifies the more we actually feel like life

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Speaker 1: is being slowly poisoned quickly.

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Speaker 2: Everything's fine, folks. So Bailey's products were not cheap, and

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Speaker 2: you might view him as the same kind of dude

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Speaker 2: as like again, like the supplement salesmen who sponsor like

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Speaker 2: info wars and shit with their alpha brain supplements. And

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Speaker 2: this shit is not cheap. His dick cancer riser costs

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Speaker 2: like one thousand dollars, so the primary way and old

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Speaker 2: timey money. Yeah, in old timy money. So like this

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Speaker 2: is like buying a nice car, right, is buying one

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Speaker 2: of these dick cancer machines. Holy fuck?

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I need to like actually process how much money

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Speaker 1: he wants for that dick shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it comes down in price. Eventually he's

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Speaker 2: selling him for just like one hundred and fifty bucks,

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Speaker 2: as they But at first, you know, it's.

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Speaker 3: Hard waiting for Black Friday guys. If anybody is looking to.

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Speaker 2: Buy for the deal to rate deal. Yeah, once people

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Speaker 2: start dying, you'll be able to irradiate your tick a

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Speaker 2: lot cheaper, folks, you know. So by this point, his

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Speaker 2: first company, Associated Radium Chemists, had been busted by the

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Speaker 2: Department of Agriculture for false advertising. So this man has

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Speaker 2: now been busted by different government agencies three times. I

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Speaker 2: think three different agencies. I think it's the FDA, the FTC,

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Speaker 2: and now the DA have all like gone after him

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Speaker 2: for various scams. Nothing stud he.

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Speaker 3: Got of criminals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he has done. He has done the fucking patent

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Speaker 2: medication con man version of an egot. Yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 2: So he starts, you know, he forms another company. He

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Speaker 2: starts making new pills. He makes Linarium, which sounds like

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Speaker 2: it was basically radioactive icy hot. And thorone, which is

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Speaker 2: just a dick pill made out of thorium. Right, It's

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Speaker 2: just a thorium dick pill. It's wrong with me?

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Speaker 3: Said that was some radium or whatever. I was like,

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Speaker 3: that sounds kind of.

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Speaker 2: Good, sounds kind of I bet it felt good, right,

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Speaker 2: I bet it felt good. That's all I'll say. He

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Speaker 2: had founded two new companies by this point. The Thorone, company,

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Speaker 2: named after his dick pills, was mostly thorium based supplements,

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Speaker 2: which he promised were good for all glandular metabolism and

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Speaker 2: faulty chemistry conditions. He also sold the radio Indocrinator, a

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Speaker 2: gold plated radium harness that you could use in several

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Speaker 2: ways when around the neck it would rejuvenate your thyroid

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Speaker 2: and around the midsection it would radiate your adrenals or ovaries.

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Speaker 2: The radio indocrenator, he claimed, gave off gamma rays that

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Speaker 2: would i the indocrine glands and I'm gonna could from

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Speaker 2: the book quackery again here, the idea was that ionizing

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Speaker 2: i E. Irradiating the indocrine system would increase harmone production,

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Speaker 2: or it was better understood by it's less enlightened audience.

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Speaker 2: The device worked by lighting up dark recesses of the body.

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Speaker 2: The radio indocrenator could even be worn under the scrotum

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Speaker 2: in a special jockstrap rigged up to energize on inspired penises.

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Speaker 2: So that's good. We're at like three different ways you

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Speaker 2: could expose your dick and balls to radiation. Now, like

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Speaker 2: this guy cannot irradiate enough testicles. Like he just loves it.

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Speaker 2: He loves it. And you know what they say, do

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Speaker 2: what you love and you'll never work a day in

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Speaker 2: your life. You know, respect you Yeah, yeah, radiate what

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Speaker 2: you love and yeah, you'll never work a day. It

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Speaker 2: is again unclear how much he believed in the therapies

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Speaker 2: he was selling. This is a guy who takes radiation

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Speaker 2: tonics himself. He clearly believes that this is helpful to

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Speaker 2: some extent as to a lot of people, but also

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Speaker 2: a lot of his ship is like clearly bogus. There's

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Speaker 2: definitely a degree because he's done cons before. There's certainly

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Speaker 2: a degree to which he knows he's conning people, right,

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Speaker 2: So you know, his stuff goes well, though he starts

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Speaker 2: doing better and better and make it getting better at

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Speaker 2: like conning people. He really one of the things that's

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Speaker 2: going to set him apart from a lot of the

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Speaker 2: pack is he goes directly to the medical community with

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Speaker 2: a lot of his inventions. And part of this is

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Speaker 2: that he's a Harvard man. He knows how to talk

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Speaker 2: to people who went to like these fancy colleges, right.

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Speaker 2: He knows the right things to say, he knows how

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Speaker 2: to put on that proper attitude. And in nineteen twenty four,

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Speaker 2: William Bailey stands up before an annual meeting of the

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Speaker 2: American Chemical Society and gives a career defining speech about

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Speaker 2: the medicinal potential of toxic radium exposure. He announces, we

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Speaker 2: have cornered aberration disease, old age and in fact life

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Speaker 2: and death themselves in the indocrines. Basically, like, we've backed

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Speaker 2: illness into a corner and it's in the endocrine system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just watching him stand in front of like

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Speaker 1: illnesses and the mission accomplished banner.

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Speaker 2: Just yes, where did it? Yeah? Now, when you envision

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Speaker 2: this moment, this speech he gives to the American Chemical Society,

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Speaker 2: you got to think about it the same way we

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Speaker 2: used to think about like Apple's annual product announcement events. Right,

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Speaker 2: Will Bailey is the Steve Jobs of radium. Right, He's

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Speaker 2: getting up there being this is insanely great. You know,

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Speaker 2: you've never been able to irradiate your dick as much

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Speaker 2: as you can now. And a lot of people, many

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Speaker 2: of them doctors, are as excited for this moment as

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Speaker 2: people were in two thousand and eight to see the iPhone.

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Speaker 2: So they listened with rapt attention as he walked them

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Speaker 2: through his newly evolved understanding of how radium therapy was

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Speaker 2: supposed to work. By this point, Bailey had convinced himself,

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Speaker 2: or at least decided to market his products under the

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Speaker 2: understanding that aging was caused by the gradual failure of

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Speaker 2: one's indocrine glands. This process could be reversed by ionizing

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Speaker 2: them with radiation, which would reverse damage and rejuvenate the

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Speaker 2: worn out glands. Full of pride, he told this audience

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Speaker 2: of scientists, I am satisfied from definitely cinical experience with

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Speaker 2: the radio indocrenator that a method of ionization is now

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Speaker 2: available whereby we can definitely, practically, without exception, retard the

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Speaker 2: progress of cinnocence and give a new lease of relatively

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Speaker 2: normal functioning power to those whose son of life is

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Speaker 2: slowly sinking into the purple shadows of that longest night.

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Speaker 2: The wrinkled face, the drawn skin, the dully the listless gate,

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Speaker 2: the faulty memory, the aching body, the destructive effects of sterility,

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Speaker 2: all spell imperfect indocrine performance. So that's cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean the voice is really the only

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Speaker 1: part I care about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do. I do always enjoy when I

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Speaker 2: get a chance to take that bad boy out for

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Speaker 2: a spin. So that is some grade a scientific mumbo jumble, right,

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Speaker 2: just unparalleled nonsense, but it's sold to his audience.

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Speaker 3: Part of the act, he mentioned toxins.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to know how many toxins are actually going

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Speaker 1: to be leaving my body?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the what's the toxin situation?

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Speaker 2: You know, Star Trek. The radium is like a teleporter.

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Speaker 2: It beams the toxins right out of your body, you know,

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Speaker 2: the more radium you're exposed to. Yeah, there, you could

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Speaker 2: sell this shit today, right, we're not far from it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Another Republican administration and they'll make it legal to sell

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Speaker 2: this shit again. Right, It'll go everywhere. Joe Rogan'll be laughing,

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Speaker 2: which honestly could solve a lot of problems for us.

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Speaker 2: Like if we just all turned to blind eyed to

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Speaker 2: radium medicine for like five or six years, we might

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Speaker 2: be in the clear. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we just solved a lot of stuff to just

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Speaker 3: let the ready.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, put like fifty to fifty ivermectin uranium mix and

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Speaker 2: just let people shoot it up their assholes. You know,

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Speaker 2: it'll be fine. So this this shit, this nonsense Bailey's

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Speaker 2: putting out. It sells to his audience. And part of why, again,

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Speaker 2: these are all real scientist. Part of why they believe

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Speaker 2: in what he's saying is they think that William Bailey

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Speaker 2: is a scientist like them. Right by this point, he

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Speaker 2: was not just pretending to have graduated from Harvard, but

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Speaker 2: he started. He'd started claiming that he'd went on to

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Speaker 2: do graduate work at a prestigious college in London and

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Speaker 2: become a PhD. Right, he's claiming to be a doctor

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Speaker 2: now now again. In reality, his Harvard admission exam he

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Speaker 2: got kind of mid grades on and all of his

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Speaker 2: worst grades were in like scientific fields engineering, physics. He's

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Speaker 2: not only is he not a doctor, but this is

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Speaker 2: specifically the shit he's bad at.

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Speaker 3: Right, It's like me selling accounting soft.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, hold of your taxes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, you want to know what to do

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Speaker 3: with your money? Maybe talk to me? Who when someone

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Speaker 3: says stocks, I just picture.

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Speaker 1: A folder and you open it and it's empty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm imagining me at like a Jordan Belford at

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Speaker 2: the end of like when he's doing those big seminars

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Speaker 2: at the end of Wolf of Wall Street. I'm just

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Speaker 2: up in front of a crowd, folks. You're hearing a

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Speaker 2: lot of things about what you can do with your money.

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Speaker 2: Put it into a four to h one k a

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Speaker 2: high yield investment. No, no, no, no no. I want to walk

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Speaker 2: you through the real way to get rich. Bury it

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Speaker 2: in a big hole. That's right, the big hole method.

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Speaker 2: For just twenty thousand dollars, I will walk you through

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Speaker 2: everything you need to do to dig a big hole

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Speaker 2: in your yard and bury all your money in it.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is what Warren Buffett does. This is

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Speaker 2: what Bill Gates is doing. That's why Bill Gates boy

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Speaker 2: a lot farmland. He needs more holes, you know what.

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Speaker 3: Else, For a very small monthly fee, I will let

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Speaker 3: you keep your money in my big hole.

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Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. You put all your money in

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Speaker 2: my hole, and I promise it'll still be there when

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Speaker 2: you need it.

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Speaker 3: That's right. And it will smell weirder anything.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yes, so his lies are not seriously Again,

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Speaker 2: there are doctors and scientists, as we'll talk about, who

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Speaker 2: are angry at Bailey and all of the who do

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Speaker 2: push back about this. But in the mainstream this is

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Speaker 2: pretty accepted. And in fact, the paper of record, the

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Speaker 2: New York Times, reaches out to Bailey the day after

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Speaker 2: this speech, and they wind up just exerting exerting his

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Speaker 2: exerting his speech to write an article about the unders

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Speaker 2: of like irradiating yourself for health. They just without questioning it,

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Speaker 2: like preprint chunks of his speech as an article in

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Speaker 2: the New York Times, so he's doing great. By nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty five, Bailey moves his headquarters to each Orange, New

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Speaker 2: Joysey and he launches yet another company, the Bailey Radium Laboratories.

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Speaker 2: It was through this company that he would produce his masterpiece, Ratathor.

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Speaker 2: This was a pre bottled radiation infused beverage. Basically, it's

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Speaker 2: vitamin water if you put a couple horoshima's worth of

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Speaker 2: rats inside it. So he had the ear of a

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Speaker 2: decent chunk of the scientific community and a lot of

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Speaker 2: credulous journalists. And as a result, Bailey decides he's going

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Speaker 2: to do something new to advertise Ratathor, rather than like

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Speaker 2: these standard patent med ads. I mean, I think he's

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Speaker 2: doing these too, but he starts. He starts advertising specifically

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Speaker 2: in like medical journals and publications, right, And this part

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Speaker 2: is actually pretty brilliant. He's kind of on the cutting

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Speaker 2: edge here. He's aware at this point the FTC and

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Speaker 2: the FDA are looking at him and guys like him right,

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Speaker 2: putting out specific health claims and like a scientific journal

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Speaker 2: would get him in trouble. He can't do that, but

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Speaker 2: he wants scientific legitimacy, and so he realizes if I

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Speaker 2: just publish research, or at least articles that look like research,

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Speaker 2: talking in general about radium therapy and how radium affects

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Speaker 2: the human body, but without making claims about my products.

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Speaker 2: If I'm just publishing research on radium and it's attached

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Speaker 2: to the name of my company, that acts as an advertisement.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not in danger with the FTC. Right, they

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Speaker 2: can't come after you for that. Yeah, he's smart. This

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Speaker 2: is an innovation, right, profession. Yeah, so instead of saying

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Speaker 2: the thorinator will cure your depression, he just bought his

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Speaker 2: way into publishing scientific monographs and magazines and particularly publications

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Speaker 2: read by physicians. And I'm going to quote from the

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Speaker 2: Journal of the American Medical Association here one example of

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Speaker 2: these monographs. A thirty two page pamphlet published in nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty six under the title Modern Treatment of the Indocrine

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Speaker 2: Glands with Radium Water ratathor the New Weapon of Medical Science,

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Speaker 2: was mailed to every physician in America. The pamphlet outlines

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Speaker 2: Bailey's theories and urges skeptical physicians to place one are

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Speaker 2: two of your most obstinate cases on radium water, so

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00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 2: that you may observe its action right in your own practice.

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Speaker 2: The pamphlet also included many photographs that purport to show

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Speaker 2: the process of radium refinement and purification at the Bailey laboratories.

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Speaker 2: These were later found to be fakes. Bailey simply bought

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Speaker 2: his radium and mesothorium from the nearby American Radium Laboratory

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Speaker 2: of New Jersey, bottling it into skilled water distilled water

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Speaker 2: at his plant and marking up the price more than

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Speaker 2: four hundred percent. But at least its real radiation.

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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I mean, Lisa, he has integrity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's what I respect is a man

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Speaker 2: who sells honest poison to you. Right, thank you, good man.

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Speaker 2: So Bailey shipped his pamphlets to every registered physician in

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Speaker 2: the country and filled them with testimonials from happy patients

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Speaker 2: and doctors. He helped blazer trail that would later be

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Speaker 2: followed by Produe Pharmaceutical decades later in the marketing of

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Speaker 2: oxycontent by offering a rebate to physicians as a professional fee.

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Speaker 2: So if you prescribe ratathor to a patient, whatever they

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Speaker 2: spend on it, you get seventeen percent of that as

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Speaker 2: a kickback directly to you. Right, that's smart. Now, to

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Speaker 2: their credit, the AMA does eventually come after it takes

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Speaker 2: them a while, but the AMA is like, this is

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Speaker 2: unbelievably unethical, like incredibly evil, but it works really well.

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Speaker 2: And again, some of these doctors are prescribing it, are

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Speaker 2: prescribing the equivalent of like hundreds or thousands of doses

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Speaker 2: per patient. So there is good money in this shit,

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Speaker 2: especially because a lot of these patients are rich, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: you are milking the rich by poisoning them with radiation,

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Speaker 2: which like not necessarily always bad, you know, worse, it's complicated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the maybe pio in the maybe file.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So from what we can tell, Bailey definitely overhyped

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Speaker 2: his products beyond what he actually believed they could do.

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Speaker 2: But he also seems to have been yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, radiation, And then you get cocky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then you start to get a little arrogant.

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Speaker 2: Right now, he seems to have been genuinely convinced that,

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Speaker 2: to some extent, radiation was good medicine. Again he is

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Speaker 2: he becomes a daily user of ratathor. I have found

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Speaker 2: no evidence that he was lying about this. He does

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Speaker 2: seem to have taken his own poison, and we'll talk

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Speaker 2: more about that at the end.

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Speaker 1: Again, I respect him. Is this actually a fan episode.

336
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Speaker 2: Because yeah, yeah, this is now we're fans of this guy, right,

337
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: That's all I'm hearing is. And he does seem to

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00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,479
Speaker 2: he seems to be upset. And again he is to

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Speaker 2: some extent consciously still conning people because he has he

340
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Speaker 2: has made con products like he has made outright cons

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Speaker 2: So he's he's both we all contain multitudes, right, And

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00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 2: he does seem to have an actual obsession with trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out why radium is good for you. Right,

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Speaker 2: he is trying. And again he doesn't have any competence

345
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Speaker 2: as a scientist, but he does try to do his

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00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 2: own research here and I'm going to quote from Smithsonian

347
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 2: Magazine again. By nineteen twenty five, Bailey had formulated his

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Speaker 2: central pharmacological thesis concerning radium stimulatory powers, as described in

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Speaker 2: a lecture that he gave in nineteen twenty five. This

350
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 2: thesis was essentially a variant of the radiation as catalyst

351
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 2: school of thought. More than ninety percent of all diseases,

352
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Speaker 2: claimed Bailey, were the result of indocrinologic funk dysfunction that

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Speaker 2: prevented the transmission of essential physiological factors. Without the correct

354
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Speaker 2: metabolic signals, the body lapsed into a state of biochemical

355
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Speaker 2: energy deprivation. Eventually, this state exhausted the perchonymal organs, resulting

356
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Speaker 2: in anemia, lassitude, cancer, depression, idiocy, and many other problems.

357
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Speaker 2: Bailey believed that the energy lost through ineffective metabolism could

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Speaker 2: be replenished using the power of radium's alpha particles, thus

359
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Speaker 2: allowing the body to return to its proper state of

360
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Speaker 2: oxidative metabolic balance through radioactive gland control. Yeah that all scans.

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Speaker 2: That seems real.

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Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, Actually, uh me and my girls, yea our

363
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 1: band radio Radioactive gland Controls.

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00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's actually a pretty good band name.

365
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're piking actually opening for what's the name of

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Speaker 1: that of the name of that like device that that

367
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: dude was pedaling to make your dick what was it called?

368
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh uh uh thorn.

369
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're actually opening for our own so yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And speaking of irradiating your dick again, you can

371
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 2: buy some dick pills that probably aren't radioactive if you

372
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Speaker 2: listen to these ads. Ah, we're back and uh yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're we're talking Bill Bailey. So Rada Thor takes the

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Speaker 2: fuck off. This is a huge success. He finally has

375
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Speaker 2: his big hit right. It's fucking it's it's fucking whe

376
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 2: He sells more than four hundred thousand half ounce bottles

377
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 2: of ratathor in just five years, and again these are

378
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: all four hundred percent markup, so he is making bank

379
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 2: off this shit. Now, by this point the boom years

380
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 2: of ratathor, evidence had begun to mount that there were

381
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 2: horrific long term health consequences to being exposed to radiation.

382
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: And this is going to bring us to a bit

383
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 2: of a digression. But this is a story worth telling,

384
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 2: infamous tale of the Radium Girls. It is this is

385
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 2: a fuck I think a lot of people are broadly

386
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 2: aware of this, which is why I didn't like make

387
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,479
Speaker 2: it the whole focus. But this is a wild ass story.

388
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,360
Speaker 2: It is laid out in gripping detail by author Kate

389
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Speaker 2: Moore in her book The Radium Girls.

390
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, why do I know that?

391
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Speaker 2: I think people have heard this, and this is the

392
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 2: Radium Girl story is a standard story of like an

393
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 2: evil corporation abusing its workers for profit, you know, when

394
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 2: they should have known better, and ultimately killing them. It's

395
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 2: very shady. I wanted to focus more on the patent

396
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 2: medicaid and stuff because that's more fun. But we are

397
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 2: going to talk about the radium girls. Now. This is

398
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,959
Speaker 2: this is where shit gets pretty bleak. As I've noted before,

399
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: sufficient doses of radium and like toothpaste will make your

400
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 2: teeth glow, right, this was the thing people advertised for

401
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: at the time. This meant that radium, because it can glow,

402
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: has the potential practical uses. You can make stuff like

403
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: watches and dials that need to glow in the dark,

404
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: glow right for like planes, for military equipment, right, for

405
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: industrial equipment, and like it's obviously it's useful if you

406
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 2: have like a watch that can glow in the dark, Right,

407
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 2: you don't have to like, yeah, a road divide our compass, right,

408
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 2: you know, all of the different things you need if

409
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: you're like firing artillery in the night or some shit.

410
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: So obviously there's a military application. A lot of this

411
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: takes off, like radium dial painting takes off as an

412
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 2: industry when we get into World War One because there's

413
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 2: a sudden demand for the equipment that they need to

414
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: be able to have, like dials lit up on and

415
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 2: This is a demanding job, right, you cannot if you

416
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: are if you are working on stuff that's going to

417
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: be military. It's going to be used to like drop

418
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 2: bombs and fire shells at people. It has to be precise, right,

419
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,479
Speaker 2: you have to be accurately putting everything on. So that is,

420
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: you know, a job that has to be done by

421
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: skilled workers. And there's no other way to apply this

422
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: stuff than by hand. Right, it has to be done

423
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: by hand, and women with tiny hands were generally seen

424
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: to be the best at this job. Right, So dial

425
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Speaker 2: painting becomes.

426
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Robert just fecking texting the next time a pod just secking.

427
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 3: Like that.

428
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

429
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 2: You would have been a great radium although it's girl.

430
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, those radium girl.

431
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: You have those radium girl hands. You don't want to

432
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: have those because it does not end well for them.

433
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: But this is considered an incredible job for a while, right,

434
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 2: it has a reputation for being the elite job of

435
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 2: poor working girls because it pays three times normal factory wages.

436
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: Kate Moore notes that dial painters were in the top

437
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 2: five percent of female workers nationally when it came to compensation.

438
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 2: So like this is seen for ambitious, poor young women.

439
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: This is how you get a leg up. This is

440
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 2: how you can escape poverty, right, which is again why

441
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 2: this is a lot less fun than selling radioactive poison

442
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 2: to rich people. Because these jobs are so good, the

443
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,360
Speaker 2: first women who get them guard them jealously, often recruiting

444
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: close friends, and they keep it in the family, right.

445
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: They're like, if there's an opening, I'm going to make

446
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: sure my sister, my aunt, my niece gets the job,

447
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 2: rather than like somebody off the street. And so one

448
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: of the things that's going to be devastating about this

449
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 2: is that often factories will have like multiple sisters, all

450
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: the sisters in a family working side by side on

451
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: the production line, and you know, one guess as to

452
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: how their lives end right. Other workers at the factory,

453
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: and this is very important. The radium girls are not

454
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: wearing any kind of ppe. They are exposed directly physically

455
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 2: through their skin with a mix of radium and paint. Right,

456
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: it's like mixed into a powder and then turn into

457
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: a paint. Basically, they have no protective gear. The workers

458
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 2: at the factory that is making the paint, that's mixing

459
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 2: these pigments, that are processing raw radium, they wear protective gear. Right,

460
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: they've got like lead aprons. They're wearing gloves like they

461
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 2: understand they matter. They in fact are men.

462
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, they matter, Like that's obvious, Like what are we

463
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: gonna be wasting stacy equipment on fucking vaginas.

464
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: That is a big part. That is a big part

465
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: of what's going on. But that's it's interesting. That's not

466
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: all of it. As we'll talk about, a lot of

467
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: these men are insanely reckless with this stuff in ways

468
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: that kind of confuse me, because they do know it's dangerous.

469
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: They're covering up the dangers for the women, but they

470
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: are also taking risks with this shit. I don't fully

471
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: get some of it. You get the feeling. I think

472
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: radium and uranium and shit. When people first started fucking

473
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: with it, I think it kind of there's a high.

474
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's like an actual physical high

475
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: that it affects your brain, but like because of all

476
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: of the buzz around this, because of how new and

477
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: exciting is, it deranges people a little bit. I don't

478
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't think there's like a

479
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: medical or pharmacological I think it's a psychological thing, but

480
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: it does appear to be. We'll talk about this in

481
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: a bit, but that.

482
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: Doesn't in the first Uh yeah, but I was thinking like,

483
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: since the life expectancy is so not great, like, how

484
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: many studies could there have been possibly done?

485
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: Oh there's none at this point, right, No, like for.

486
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: Somebody like you might absolutely be one hundred percent correct,

487
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: Like how would you check that?

488
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they know that it can kill you

489
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: just because like pure radium will like burn people. People

490
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: have died as a result of that. But the idea

491
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 2: that like tiny amounts, like for one thing, it hasn't

492
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: been being used long enough that people who are being

493
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: exposed constantly as smaller doses are getting aren't getting cancer yet,

494
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: So you can't really like it's just not as it

495
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: wasn't immediately clear. Although as we'll talk about, they did

496
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 2: know enough that they should have been taking precautions, right,

497
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: But they certainly don't know nearly as much as we

498
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: know now, right. And part of why they're not giving

499
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: these girls PPE is that the paint used by the

500
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: radium girls is so diluted. They're like, it can't this

501
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: is not enough to be danger And again, part of

502
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: how they're thinking about this, they're not thinking about this

503
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: the way we think about radiation, which is like, yeah,

504
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 2: you want to be exposed to as little radiation as possible. Right,

505
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: they're thinking about it as well. In high doses, super concentrated,

506
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, radium can be very dangerous to people, but

507
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: in lower doses it's a medicine. It treats these different illnesses.

508
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: So it's like they're thinking about it the way we

509
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: think of aspirin. Right. Obviously, if you were to like

510
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: chow down on a brick of aspirin, you would get

511
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: very sick. But if you take a pill when you've

512
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: got a headache or whatever, you feel better. You know.

513
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: That's kind of how they're thinking about this, right, So

514
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 2: they're like, well, in these doses, it's not going to

515
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 2: hurt these girls right now. Obviously this is absurd. As

516
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: Kate Moore writes in a column for BuzzFeed, radium's luminosity

517
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: was part of its allure, and the dial painters soon

518
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: became known as the ghost girls because by the time

519
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: they finished their shifts, they themselves would glow in the dark.

520
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: They made the most of the perk, wearing their good

521
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: dresses to the plants so they'd shine in the dance

522
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: halls at night, and even painting radium onto their teeth

523
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: for a smile that would knock the suitors dead. Grace

524
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: and her colleagues obediently followed the technique they'd been taught

525
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 2: for the painstaking handiwork of painting the tiny dials, some

526
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: of which were only three and a half centimeters wide.

527
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: The girls were instructed to slip their paint brushes between

528
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: their lips to make a fine point, a practice called

529
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: lip pointing or lip dip paint routine. As playwright Melanie

530
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: Marnick later described it, every time the girls raised the

531
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: brushes to their mouths, they swallowed a little bit of

532
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: the glowing green paint. So that's that's great, that's good. Yeah, yeah, Now,

533
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 2: one of the women who instructed Grace in this technique

534
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: later recalled to an interviewer, the first thing we asked

535
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: was does this stuff hurt you? Naturally, you don't want

536
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: to put anything in your mouth that is going to

537
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: hurt you, mister savoys, The manager said it wasn't dangerous,

538
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 2: that we didn't need to be afraid. Now, this was

539
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: a lie. Even giving the incomplete understanding of radiation at

540
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: the time. They knew enough to know that there was

541
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: a danger to the jobs these women. Again, the men

542
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 2: handling radium and labs are wearing lead aprons and tongs

543
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: and shit. These women are not even warned that those

544
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: precautions exist, right, They're not being told that there is

545
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: an amount of radium that's dangerous because that is that's

546
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: common knowledge to scientists, but to lay people, there's no

547
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 2: knowledge that there's any danger to this stuff. That's like

548
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: widespread and like so, even though I think a lot

549
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: of these guys legitimately believed they were not being exposed

550
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: enough to hurt them, these women were not being told

551
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: that there are any potential dangers to radium, which, like

552
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 2: is irresponsible. Is particularly bad because the founder of the

553
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 2: US Radium Corporation, which employed the radium girls, was a

554
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: scientist named Sabine von Sochoki. He literally invented the paint

555
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 2: that they used, and he was aware of the dangers

556
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: of radium, even in smaller quantities. Again, this is not

557
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: just some businessman who adopts this because it's good money.

558
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: This is a scientist. He had worked personally with the

559
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: Kiris in the earliest radium research. He had seen radiation burns,

560
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: and he had been injured by radiation himself. And I'm

561
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: going to quote from the radium girls here, from them

562
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: and from the specialist medical literature he had studied. Von

563
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: Soochoki understood that radio carried great dangers. The curries by

564
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 2: that time were intimately familiar with radium's hazards, having suffered

565
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: many burns themselves. Radium could cure tumors, it was true,

566
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: by destroying unhealthy tissue, but it was indiscriminating in its

567
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: powers and could devastate healthy tissue too. Von Sachoki himself

568
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: had suffered its silent and sinister wrath. Radium had gotten

569
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: into his left index finger, and when he realized, he

570
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: hacked the tip of it off. It now looked as

571
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: though an animal had gnawed it. Of course, to the

572
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: layman this was all unknown. The mainstream position, as understood

573
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: by most people, was that the effects of radium were

574
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: all positive, and that was what was written about in

575
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: newspapers and magazines. So again, this guy that finger is intent, Yeah,

576
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: like he cut his own finger off when he got

577
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: a little bit of it in there. He knows these

578
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: girls are taking a risk, and he just doesn't care, right.

579
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: Like I made the sexism joke earlier, which I'm sure

580
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: is a part of it, but I mostly think, honestly,

581
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: it's a classism thing, right, Yeah, it's like you don't

582
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: give a fuck, like you know, Okay, I'm gonna recommend

583
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: this book that I've talked about before called The Fashion

584
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: Victims by Alison Matthews David. I sent you guys it

585
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: because I'm going to do a podcast with her.

586
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: But she talks about.

587
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: All of the different like ways that clothes were essentially

588
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: killing people that were making them and wearing them.

589
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 3: But one of the things is like.

590
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: The people that work in the factories matter so little

591
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: that their lives are totally an okay thing to sacrifice,

592
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: which is like why workers' rights even had to be

593
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: a thing. You know, people were just like, oh, yeah,

594
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: we give a fuck about the people that make our shit,

595
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: like that would not even be an issue clearly anyway,

596
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything new, but.

597
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, yeah, that's I always valid to like

598
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: bring up, especially when we as we're in this new

599
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: age of unionization, Like there's a good reason why because

600
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: without unions and worker protections, they would literally just poison

601
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: us all with radium. First yeah to.

602
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 3: Death, and they don't care because there's a million more

603
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: people shit.

604
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. And again, I will say, as we're as we're

605
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: critiquing him for this very validly, he is also again

606
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: he has this kind of irrational transfiction with radium, right,

607
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: And by all reports, he was also pretty reckless with

608
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: this shit. He was known to play with it, to

609
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: hold tubes of radium with his bare hands to watch,

610
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: like he would turn the light off so we could

611
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: like watch its luminosity in the dark. He would expose

612
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: his arm up to the elbow in Radium Solutions Company

613
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: co founder George Willis was also really reckless. He would

614
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: pick up tubes of radium with his like four finger

615
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: finger and they were supposed to use forceps, but he

616
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: would just use his hands. And again, these guys are

617
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: so reckless with this stuff because they just kind of

618
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: love it, and their colleagues are like, well, these guys

619
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: are the scientists. If they're doing this, it must be safe.

620
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: And again, if he saw.

621
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: This in a movie, and you do see it, and

622
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: like you know superhero movie, when a like a villain

623
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: or what like draw the thing, You're always like, this

624
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: is so ridiculous. But listening the way that these people

625
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: actually relate to uranium and shitaactly.

626
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's wild, right.

627
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, psychological, yeah, something component that is connected to it,

628
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: because like, ef, that's not normal.

629
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: No, and yeah I do. I don't fully understand what

630
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: it is, but something is clearly going on here because

631
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: these people are yeah, they're treating it, yeah, like a

632
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: fucking villain in a Spider Man movie treats like the

633
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: superheroes Sarum or some shit, right, Like they're Willem Defoe

634
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: right here. Yes. And it's interesting because, like a lot,

635
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: there are scientists, prominent ones who are warning about this,

636
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: one of them. Normally. This is the only time we're

637
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: going to bring up Thomas Edison and him not be

638
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: the bastard. But Thomas Edison was aware of all this

639
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: and thought it was fucking crazy. He remarked right around

640
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: this time, there may be a condition into which radium

641
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: has not yet entered that would produce dire results. Everybody

642
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: handling it should have care, right. That's again the only

643
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: time Edison says something perfectly reasonable, but like, yeah, man,

644
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: they probably should be wearing protection. He's basically like, we

645
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: don't understand this stuff. You're just you're sticking your arm

646
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: into a vat of it? What is wrong with you?

647
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: Like this burns people. We should be careful here now.

648
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: You will not be surprised to hear that the effect

649
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: of all of this radium on the bodies of the

650
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: young women painting these dials was nothing short of calamitous.

651
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: The radium that they had eaten particularly settled inside their

652
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: bodies and basically honey combs their bones with radiation. It

653
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,239
Speaker 2: is drilling holes inside their bones like Swiss cheese. This

654
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: kills their marrow and it causes their bodies to literally

655
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: collapse in on it themselves like a dying star. One worker,

656
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: this young woman named Grace, her spine is crushed. She

657
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: is like given a brace. Basically her spine just crumbles

658
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: inside of her. Another girl has her jaw eaten away

659
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: to a stump. Some girls would shrink, they would lose

660
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: multiple inches because their leg bones are just crumbling and

661
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: compacting from the inside. And while all of this is

662
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: going on, their bones were glowing in the dark, right

663
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: so fucked up like it is. Some of these women

664
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: first realized they were sick when they saw their They

665
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: would see their own bones glowing back at them. In

666
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: the mirror, like what the fuck, Yeah, it's insane, and like, yeah,

667
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: we've got a picture here. This is one of the

668
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: radium girls who has I mean, honestly, I don't mean

669
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: to be like blithe about this. It looks like a

670
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 2: nineties prosthetic, like if you were going to give someone

671
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: a fake chin for like a skit where they're you know,

672
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 2: you're trying to make them look like Jay Leno or

673
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: something like that's what. But it's just a tumor. It's

674
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: like a tumor that's a good eight inches of like

675
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: chin basically like it's grueser it. It's really thick, I

676
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: mean it is. It's actually it's more like the mass

677
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: of a brick that's just stuck under her jaw. Like

678
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: the tumors these these young women got are ghastly some

679
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: of the most unsettling body horrorshit I have ever encountered

680
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: in my research. Like it is gnarly. And yeah, obviously,

681
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: by the time you have this kind of radium exposure,

682
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: there's no cure treatment. You can't fix this, like this

683
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: is this is by the time your bones are glowing

684
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: in the dark, you're dead, you know.

685
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: But also, how much research and work would have to

686
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: even be done for anybody to even try to reverse it.

687
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like there's no way to even.

688
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: Like there's so far behind the ball.

689
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: On the But even then, I think today, by this point,

690
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 2: I don't think there's shit we could do for these girls.

691
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: Oh no, we can't. We can't fix it.

692
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like the amount of time you would

693
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: need to figure out how to solve something like this,

694
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: like they do not have that time.

695
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely not, Like this is a death sentence

696
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: and they you know, these are not dumb people. These women,

697
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: like they realize as soon as they they don't know

698
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: what radiation poisoning is because it's not really well known

699
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: at that point, but they know by the time your

700
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 2: bones are crumbling inside of you, well I'm going to die,

701
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: right They are not. They are not possessed of like

702
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: irrational like like hope here, you know, they're very aware like,

703
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 2: oh my god, my job has fucking killed me. I

704
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 2: was lied to right now, while they start coming out

705
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: going to the press trying to like get help, like

706
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: get you know, basically the equivalent of workmen's comp for

707
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: getting poisoned at work. The radium industry these companies making

708
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 2: the paints, painting the dials deny there is any danger

709
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: to their products. They basically say, these girls are crazy.

710
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: Something else is wrong with them. Radium. We all know

711
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: radium's a health product, right, and there's so little of

712
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: it in this paint that no one could get harmed

713
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: by it, right. And in fact, when the story that

714
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 2: radium girls are getting sick breaks in the news, the

715
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: New York Times is like, well, we got to report

716
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: on this. See if you know, see what's up to it.

717
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: You know who can tell us if these girls are

718
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: full of shit or not. Our buddy William Bailey. So

719
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: they call will Bailey, the guy selling radium water, and

720
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: he's like, there's no proof that radium is responsible for

721
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 2: any of these debts. You know, nobody gets sick from radium.

722
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: This is just nonsense. They're women, you know, they don't

723
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: know anything.

724
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: Hi. It's also awesome that if you want to know

725
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: about a thing, you don't go to the people have

726
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: the thing.

727
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: No, You're like, no, well there to learn from them.

728
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: No, Well, Bailey's a scientist. We the New York Times

729
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 2: didn't check to verify that he has any kind of degree,

730
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: but he says he's a scientist, good lie about that,

731
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: not a man, I'm being a Harvard man. Yeah, yeah,

732
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: So I mean I bet that is a big part

733
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: of it. I bet the fucking reporter who reached out

734
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: as some Harvard educated writer and was like, well, a

735
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 2: Harvard man would never poison people for money, he would

736
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: never lie on behalf of his industry. So now I

737
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: will say again, a lot of the doctors and stuff

738
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: we're talking about this are are not good people. There

739
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 2: are some these girls, you know, when they get sick,

740
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: this is horrifying, and the physicians who are seeing them

741
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: and realize what's happened are horrifying, and some very brave

742
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: crusading physicians basically go to bat against a significant chunk

743
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: of the medical industry and against the radium industry to

744
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: like try to get not just get justice for these

745
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: girls because to an extent that's impossible, but to try

746
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: and stop people from being exposed to radium, right because

747
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: they realize, oh, these girls are getting sick from radium paint.

748
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: All of these products on their shelves are full of radium.

749
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: Potentially tens of thousands, hundred thousands of people could be getting

750
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: sick we have to stop this shit, right and the

751
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: Radium girls, though I will say, you know these doctors,

752
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 2: A lot of these doctors, they testify they are great.

753
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 2: The primary response to this, to this attempt to kind

754
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,479
Speaker 2: of bring it into this industry, is centered around these

755
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: Radium girls who are actively dying and basically organize a

756
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: very effective crusade to bring their employer to some sort

757
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 2: of justice and to put a stop to this shit.

758
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: And these again, this is an incredibly heroic story. These

759
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: girls are aware we cannot be saved, right. We are

760
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: doing this to stop other people from getting sick and dying.

761
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: Grace Fryer, who is one of the one of the

762
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: Radium girls, said at the time it is not for

763
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: myself I care. I am thinking more of the hundreds

764
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: of girls to whom this may serve as an example.

765
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: Kate Moore writes quote as Grace, who led their fight,

766
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: determined to find a lawyer, even after countless attorneys turned

767
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 2: her down, either disbelieving the women's claims, running scared from

768
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: powerful radium corporations, or being unprepared to fight a legal

769
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: battle that demanded the overturn of existing legislation. At the time,

770
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: Radium poisoning was not a compensable disease. It hadn't even

771
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 2: been discovered until the girls got sick. And the women

772
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: were also stemy by the Statute of Limitations, which ruled

773
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: that victims of occupational poisoning had to bring their legal

774
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: cases within two years. Radium poisoning was insidious, so most

775
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: girls did not start to sicken until at least five

776
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: years after they started work. They were trapped in a

777
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: vicious legal circle that seemingly could not be squared. But

778
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: Grace was the daughter of a union delegate, and she

779
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 2: was determined to hold a clearly guilty firm to account. Eventually,

780
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty seven, a smart young lawyer named Raymond

781
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: Barry accepted their case, and Grace, along with four colleagues,

782
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: found herself the center of an internationally famous courtroom drama.

783
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: By now, however, time was running out. The women had

784
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: been given just four months to live, and the company

785
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: seemed intent on dragging out the legal proceedings. As a consequence,

786
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: Grace and her friends were forced to settle out of court,

787
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: but they had raised the profile of radium poisoning. Just

788
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: said Grace, as Grace had planned, and you know this

789
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: is again. You know, they're not able to take the

790
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: radium girls, this first group of them grace. They're not

791
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: able to take this case as far as they want

792
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: to because they don't have much time. But they settle.

793
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: They get money for their families, and this becomes an

794
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: international story. And so thousands, hundreds, you know, at least

795
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: hundreds of other women, and I also assume an equal

796
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: number of men at least working in various industries with radium,

797
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: find out for the first time that this shit is dangerous, right,

798
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 2: And it is like, this is like a horror movie scene.

799
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: Right as these as these stories start to come out

800
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: and they're being read in offices where people are using

801
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 2: radium paint and doing other shit with radium, right, One dive.

802
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: Men after brushing their teeth, yeah, with with their radium

803
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: tooth basse, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone's just looking at their

804
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 1: glass of radium water being like uh oh no.

805
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: One young one who worked for another radium corporation. She's

806
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: a dial painter as well, but in a different stay.

807
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: She's in Illinois. Catherine Wolf later recalled, there were meetings

808
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: at our plant that bordered on riots. The chill of

809
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: fear was so depressing that we could scarcely work. And

810
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: now I bet you're wondering, why the fuck would you

811
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: keep working after you learn this. Well, you got to

812
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: keep in mind a lot of the shit is breaking

813
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 2: right at the start of the Great Depression, right and

814
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: in the middle of the Great Depression, and so people

815
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: are suddenly aware, oh my god, this is killing me.

816
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: But also you know it will kill my family. Is

817
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: if I can't buy food from my kids that I'm

818
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: a single mother to suddenly if we get shit pushed

819
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: out on the street when there are no other jobs,

820
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: so they really this is like it's an impossible situation, right,

821
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: you don't want to die of cancer.

822
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: But also Starvations right around the corner.

823
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: Of Starvations right there too. Yeah, it's it's fucked it's

824
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: fucked up. So yeah, real bummer. But you know what's

825
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: not a bummer, Sophia, these goods and services. That's not

826
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: a bomer at all. Just a good time. So have

827
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: some products, folks, right now we're back. So this is

828
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: it's also you know, part of why people don't quit immediately,

829
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 2: why there's like a lot of confusion in the industry

830
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: among these workers is just like, well, we still need money,

831
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: and another part of it is that the companies, all

832
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: these radium companies, they're kind of I haven't read precisely

833
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: if the tobacco industry looks at how these companies respond

834
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 2: when they formulate their own responses later in the century

835
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: to a similar sort of like you know, revelation, but

836
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: they use a lot of the same tactics that will

837
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: later be used by big tobacco. And the biggest one

838
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 2: is they flood the zone with disinformation. The Illinois firm

839
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: that Wolf worked at, Radium Dial denied any responsibility. And

840
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: the way that they do this is they come out

841
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: and they say, you know, we're concerned obviously about our workers.

842
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: We don't want anyone to get hurt. So we did

843
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: medical tests, you know, we studied. We did tests on

844
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: these women who got sick to try and see if

845
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: they had radium poisoning. Now here's the thing. They had

846
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: done medical tests on these employees, and those tests had

847
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that all of

848
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: these women had radiation poisoning. So what does Radium Dial do.

849
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: They just lie, They just say the test didn't show anything,

850
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: and they burned that fucking research to further muddle waters.

851
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 2: They paid for a full page ad where they stated,

852
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: if we at any time had reason to believe that

853
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: any conditions of the work endangered the health of our employees,

854
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 2: we would have at once suspended operations.

855
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: Now, listen, if we had known Harvey Weinstein was some

856
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: sort of a raper, we would have.

857
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 3: Never allowed him to dominate the film industry like he has.

858
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: Oh God, so here's the thing. This actually gets more

859
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: ghoulish than that. This is one of the worst things

860
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 2: I've ever heard about a company doing, because not only

861
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: are they hiding research that proves that their employees are

862
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: getting sick from this work, not only are they lying

863
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: to people where they continue to get exposed to more radium.

864
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: Not only are they putting out propaganda, but when their

865
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: workers die, obviously, families who are losing their kids could

866
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: pay for an independent autopsy, could have research done, could

867
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: have these bones studied, and that would prove that these girls,

868
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: they steal the bones of these dead girls to hide,

869
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: to like destroy them so that it can't be like

870
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: they are the bones of their employ their dead employee,

871
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: that is.

872
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: And you said steals their steal their bones.

873
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 2: I think that might be the worst thing I've heard

874
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 2: of a company doing to their workers. That's like it's

875
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: a high bar. But that's that's like I mean when

876
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: I say ghoulish, I'm not like, that's not even figured.

877
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 2: That is literal ghuleshit. You are stealing the bones of

878
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: a corpse. That is actual literal ghullshit.

879
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 3: Mother, motherfucking bones.

880
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: My dear. Yeah, that is pretty bad. So nineteen thirty eight.

881
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 3: It's like when fucking.

882
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: Is it Mormons that like convert oh dead people.

883
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they're like they'll make Anne Frank into a

884
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: Mormon iba to.

885
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 3: Come through a Jewish cemetery and be like, you're a.

886
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: Mormon now, man. I have I have applied what I

887
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: call the Anne Frank rule, which is that if you

888
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: start to bring up or reference Anne Frank in anything

889
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 2: other than, for example, the Diary of Anne Frank, stop it.

890
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: Stop it. Don't do that, like, let let her be

891
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: she wrote her book. Talk about the book if you

892
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: want to. If you are bringing up Anne Frank for

893
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 2: any other reason, cease.

894
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily the Martin Luther King rule. It's like, yeah, sorry,

895
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 1: are you white?

896
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 2: Yeah?

897
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 3: Not bring no Luther King into your argument.

898
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 2: Think you leave it, bitch. There's plenty of things that

899
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 2: he said, just stop, just stop.

900
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 3: They do not need to be made a part of it.

901
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm in nineteen thirty eight, not long after

902
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: Catherine Wolf. You know that the stories had gone viral

903
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: in her workplace. They're having these meetings, you know, freaking out,

904
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: do we have to worry about getting cancer? Shortly after

905
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: that point, Catherine wakes up with a tumor on her

906
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,479
Speaker 2: hip and in very short order it grows to these

907
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 2: size of a grapefruit. Her teeth start to fall out.

908
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: The detail that like fucked me up about this is

909
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: that she wentz in my nightmare. She's like picking fragments

910
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: of her jawbone outside of her mouth, out of her mouth,

911
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: like because it's just crumbling inside of her.

912
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 3: This is my fucking nightmare. Honestly, literally, I have nightmares

913
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 3: about this.

914
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: Oh god, it's yeah, it's I can't imagine really much

915
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 2: worse other than like this happening to your kid, right,

916
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: that's the only thing worse than this's happening here. Yeah, Like,

917
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: and I I don't think I would be a functional

918
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: person if I were going through this. Catherine launches a

919
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: fucking war on her employer, like while she is literally

920
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 2: pulling fragments of her own jaw out of her head

921
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 2: on a daily basis. Her body is rotting on her.

922
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: She fucking organizes a legal campaign against them. She sues,

923
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 2: she's fucking these all of these ladies are fucking awesome.

924
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: She sues her employer, which is one of you know,

925
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: and this is like, not only is this not easy

926
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: because they have a lot of money, but her neighbors

927
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 2: start coming after her when she sues the Radium Dial company.

928
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: Because it's the Great Depression, there's not a lot of

929
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: other employers, so they're like, you're threatening everyone's ability to

930
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: make a living right. They don't care that they're in

931
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 2: danger too.

932
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 3: I want my husband to go to the job that's

933
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 3: killing them.

934
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Catherine does not let this stop her. She

935
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 2: testifies before a judge she like. The court case goes

936
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: through again, the company tries to delay it. She gets

937
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 2: too sick to go into court, and so she has

938
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 2: They have the judge and the lawyers show up to

939
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: her house. She gives her like testimony on her deathbed,

940
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 2: and she and her lawyer, Leonard Grossman, win their case.

941
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: The horrific story of the Radium Girls builds popular support

942
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: for a whole raft of new regulations. A lot of

943
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 2: our working workers regulations come out of the backlash to

944
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: what happened to these girls. And in fact, Catherine and

945
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: this whole, like the series of court cases launched by

946
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: the Radium Girls, are a major factor in the establishment

947
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: of OSHA. Right, this is a big part of how

948
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 2: we get OSHA, and you know it is obviously does

949
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: not save any of these young women, but they are

950
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: continuing to save lives to this day. Before OSHA, about

951
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: fourteen thousand Americans died on the job every year. And again,

952
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 2: this is like when the country's a third the size

953
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: that it is now today, about forty five hundred workers

954
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: die in the job every year, right, still too many,

955
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: but like that is like the improvement. These girls saved

956
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 2: a lot of lives, you know, while losing their own.

957
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: It's as admirable as story as I've ever heard. So

958
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: that is a long digression from the story of William Bailey,

959
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: although he did tie into this. You know, he's given

960
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: comments to The New York Times. But you can't really

961
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: talk about radium poisoning without talking about the Radium Girls,

962
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: nor should you. So one crucial difference here between what

963
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: the Radium Dial Corporation and these other radium companies that

964
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 2: these girls work at is doing, and what Bailey is

965
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: doing is that the death toll of the radium dial

966
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 2: companies is very well documented because we have all these

967
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 2: these women who go to work there and they get sick,

968
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: and we know they died, and we know it was

969
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 2: because of the radium that they were exposed to at work.

970
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: We don't know how many people died or were maimed

971
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 2: as a result of all of the radiation they got

972
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 2: from Will Bailey's products, Like because in number one, it's

973
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: a lower dose than the radium dial girls are getting,

974
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 2: but they're taking it sometimes and these people are taking

975
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 2: it for years and then maybe ten years later they

976
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 2: get a cancer and like, well they were a smoker too. Now,

977
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 2: of course we know that if you're a smoker, you're

978
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 2: going to get more lung cancer faster if you're also

979
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: exposed to radium. Right, it is not known. We will

980
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: never know how many people do eyed because of this

981
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 2: guy's stuff. But like he's tens of thousands of people

982
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: are taking the radium products that he makes, maybe more.

983
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: I think his death toll is significant. I think I'm

984
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: guessing this guy's got at least a nine to eleven

985
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 2: on him, you know, but I don't think it's provable, right.

986
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 2: It should also be noted that the Radium Dial Corporation

987
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: and others were at least manufacturing products that did something right.

988
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: They had a function. Bailey is just selling pure snake oil.

989
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: You know.

990
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: Whether or not that makes him better or worse is

991
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: pointless to discuss, but I do think the difference is interesting.

992
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,479
Speaker 2: It's also worth noting that the progress that came about

993
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: as a result of the Radium Girl's Brave battle was

994
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 2: not immediate. As late as nineteen thirty, the FDA had

995
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: taken no serious action against Bailey or his compatriots, and

996
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 2: these this last court case like ends in nineteen twenty eight, right,

997
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 2: so there is starting to be backlash building and people

998
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: agitating to like really restrict where this stuff can be used.

999
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: But in nineteen thirty, the FDA is still like, we

1000
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: don't have any legal basis to go after this guy.

1001
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 2: Several warnings. The FDA does publish warnings because of all

1002
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: of these grizzly photos of dyeing dial painters, but they

1003
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: don't really do anything. The FTC is a bit faster

1004
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: on the draw. In nineteen twenty eight, which is the

1005
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: year that Catherine Wolf sues the Radium Dial company, they

1006
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: start an investigation into William Bailey's company right particularly into

1007
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 2: the claims he's making about Ratathor. But this takes a

1008
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 2: while to work its way through the system, so in

1009
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty, two years later, they finally charge him with

1010
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 2: false advertising. Now unclear if that would have been enough

1011
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: to bring him down. He has enough money at this

1012
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 2: point to have fought this. But this charge comes across

1013
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: at the same time as another very significant development, which

1014
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 2: is what's going to actually bring it into not just Bailey,

1015
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 2: but this whole industry. And of course it's a rich

1016
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 2: white guy getting sick from radium poisoning, right, No, that

1017
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: leads to real fast changes even the m buyers is

1018
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: an upper class athlete. He's a competitive trapshooter, and he

1019
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: was the champion of the US Amateur golf tournament.

1020
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 3: In nineteen He didn't say he was that kind of white.

1021
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 3: That's yeah.

1022
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: He is is golf champion white. He is also the

1023
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 2: CEO of a metal foundry.

1024
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: Uh.

1025
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 2: He is a millionaire who is famous for his parties

1026
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: and womanizing. Smithsonian Magazine writes that his quote suave demeanor

1027
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: and social conquest at nearby girls schools earned him the

1028
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: nickname Foxy Grandpa. So ew, that's probably that's probably something criminal, right,

1029
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 2: that's probably that's probably bad el Foxy Foxy Grandpa. Yeah,

1030
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: because he's going after women or people who are so young. Right,

1031
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 2: I'm not sad this guy winds up dying around town. Yeah,

1032
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 2: it is you can't even sing. It is funny that,

1033
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 2: like you have these deeply sympathetic, really incredible people, these

1034
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: these radium girls get sick and die and it slowly

1035
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: brings change. But like the worst man in the world,

1036
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 2: it's sick on radium and it's this instant fucking backlash. Yeah.

1037
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: Seriously, it's like the like the lacrosse like rapist guy. Yeah,

1038
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: and that really's like, well, now we got to end radiation.

1039
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: You do have to think of this guy. He's like

1040
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 2: a Gatsby type, right.

1041
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 3: Oh, here I pictured Leonard DiCaprio me.

1042
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's got like horse racing stables in multiple countries.

1043
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said Foxy Grandpa. I immediately though, you or DiCaprio.

1044
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there you go. So his downfall even buyers.

1045
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 2: His downfall begins in nineteen twenty seven. He's, you know,

1046
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 2: attending the annual Harvard Yale football game, and on his

1047
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 2: way back, he's got a private train, he owns a

1048
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 2: private train car. He's like partying with his friends and

1049
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: he falls drunkenly off of his top bunk and injures

1050
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: his arm. You know, he thinks it's just like a

1051
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: spraying or something, but the pain doesn't leave him.

1052
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: You know.

1053
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: He goes to a bunch of doctors. He takes different

1054
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 2: treatments for weeks, all these different physical therapies, and you know,

1055
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: months go by and it's just not It's still this

1056
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: chronic pain. He can't play golf anymore, and the constant

1057
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: pain makes it he can't get directions anymore. So he's

1058
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: like anything, I'll do anything to deal with this.

1059
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: He's like, one, no golf, Two no more trap shooting,

1060
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and.

1061
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 3: Three no more pussy, Like I will kill myself.

1062
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to fix me, doc. So he's got

1063
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: all this money. He shops around for doctors until he

1064
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 2: finds one named Charles Moyer. Now Moyer is one of

1065
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: these doctors who who is aware of Bailey's kickback program

1066
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: on Ratathor and is like, well, if I get this

1067
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 2: rich guy to take a shitload of Ratathor, I'll get

1068
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: I'm getting a fucking I'm getting a pointer. I'm getting

1069
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: a couple of points off at each bottle he buys. Right,

1070
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: So Buyers tries this stuff. He like says, hey, try

1071
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: this Ratathor shit, it'll cure you. Buyers tries it, and

1072
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: he likes it. Right, He feels energized. He starts feeling

1073
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 2: like his old self again. He can get hard, he

1074
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 2: can play golf again. I don't know. Is this the

1075
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: placebo effect? He just finally did his Was his arm

1076
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 2: just actually healing and he should have given it more time?

1077
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, But he claims to feel fucking great,

1078
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 2: and in fact he falls. He he is like the

1079
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: power user of Ratathor. Right, He's drinking on a daily basis.

1080
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 2: He's drinking three times the maximum maximum recommended dose, and

1081
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: he loves it. That his gifts. He starts buying cases

1082
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 2: of it for his friends and loved ones.

1083
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: But he's also like taking it off label, right, so

1084
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: like three times the maximum amouth.

1085
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:21,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his doctor's like, sure, that's just three times

1086
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 2: as much money for me. Fuck it. He buys cases

1087
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: whenever he gets a new girlfriend, and I think the

1088
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 2: term girl is very literal there. He'll give them cases

1089
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: of ratathor to drink for their own health, and he

1090
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 2: starts using it to water his race horses.

1091
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 3: Between mocking killed the horses.

1092
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Between nineteen twenty seven and nineteen thirty one,

1093
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 2: he personally consumes between one thousand and fifteen hundred bottles

1094
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: of the stuff. Estimates that have been done recently, you know,

1095
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 2: after the fact, when we started to learn how to

1096
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: measure radiation better. Scientists now estimate that he exposed himself

1097
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 2: to about three times a fatal dose of radiation over

1098
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 2: the course of four years, the equivalent of several thousand

1099
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: X rays. Wow, so that's cool. Starting in early nineteen

1100
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: thirty one, buyers began to experience increasing complications. His bones

1101
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 2: seemed to be eating themselves, splintering and dissolving one by one.

1102
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 2: His marrow failed and his kidneys stopped working. A brain

1103
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: abscess destroyed his hearing. By the end, he was bedridden,

1104
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: unable to move her here, but still alive and horribly alert.

1105
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,919
Speaker 2: Now his social prominence means you cannot sweep this under

1106
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 2: the rug. This is a famous rich guy. A radiologist

1107
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: Joseph Steiner, who looked at the radiographs of Buyer's rotting bones,

1108
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: launched a crusade of his own. He had to take

1109
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: action because the other doctors who worked with Buyers, including

1110
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: Buyer's personal physician, refused to acknowledge that this was radium intoxication, right,

1111
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 2: I think, because they're all getting kickbacks, like, no, man,

1112
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 2: you're not sick because a radium. You just need to, yeah,

1113
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: drink more milk. So this guy Steiner is like, no,

1114
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 2: this is fucking radium poisoning. He's been poisoned by this

1115
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: stupid drink he's taking. And you know, he makes this

1116
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: enough of a noise about this that a government commission

1117
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 2: is formed to investigate, and they have buyers again. He

1118
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 2: becomes another person. He testifies from his sick bed right

1119
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 2: before he dies to this commission. An attorney who was

1120
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: present to that testimony later described quote, a more gruesome

1121
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: experience in a more gorgeous setting would be hard to imagine.

1122
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,479
Speaker 2: We went to Southampton, where Buyers had a magnificent home.

1123
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: There we discovered him in a condition with Beggar's description,

1124
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 2: young in years in mentally alert, he could hardly speak.

1125
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: His head was swathed in bandages. He had undergone two

1126
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 2: successive jaw operations, and his whole upper jaw, excepting two

1127
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: front teeth, and most of his lower jaw, had been removed.

1128
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: All the remaining bone tissue of his body was slowly

1129
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: disintegrating and holes were actually forming in his skull. Jesus Christ, Yeah,

1130
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 2: pretty fucked up, pretty bad. On December nineteenth, nineteen thirty one,

1131
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 2: the Commission issued a cease and desist to Bailey's company.

1132
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: This did not help buyers. He dies in early nineteen

1133
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 2: thirty two, but his death provided the impetus for the

1134
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: fdaight to push for expanded power so that they can

1135
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: take action against quack medication. A lot of the FDAs

1136
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: what teeth it has come out of this period. As

1137
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: a result of this, a backlash boiled over from the

1138
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: medical community against patent drugs like Ratathor. Regulations came quickly,

1139
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: and Bailey's business collapsed. He escaped any personal consequences for

1140
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 2: this or his role in any other countless number of deaths,

1141
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: though we know of at least one female friend of

1142
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: his who died because he kept giving her ratathor, but

1143
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: the number of people who developed cancer as a result

1144
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: of taking his and his other products is kind of unknown.

1145
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 2: Bailey does become persona and on grata. After this point,

1146
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 2: he's you know, the press starts going after him. He's

1147
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 2: like hounded in the streets by journalists and stuff. There's

1148
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 2: these constant inquiries from like Newark public health officials. Eventually

1149
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 2: he has to flee town. Right worker or reporters find

1150
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: him at his office front at the Adeno Ray Company

1151
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 2: in East Orange and when they ask what kind of

1152
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: business he's conducting, he's like, it's an advertising business. And

1153
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: they're like, well, the name on the door is the

1154
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 2: same as this radiation product you were selling, and he's like,

1155
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 2: oh no, the name on the door doesn't mean a thing.

1156
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: I'm not selling anything radioactive. Eventually, he has to like

1157
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: drop out of public life entirely, although weirdly.

1158
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: Enough, I feel like he is like Army Hammer.

1159
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 2: Kind of he has more of a second act than

1160
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: Army Hammer.

1161
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 3: Oh no.

1162
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: He somehow gets a job as the editor of a

1163
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 2: newspaper in New Jersey and like pivots to being a

1164
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 2: politics influencer. He writes books on global politics and like health.

1165
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: In World War Two, he's an aircraft observer under the

1166
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: First Fighter Command. He invents a method of swimming instruction

1167
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 2: for soldiers he like puts together. He possibly it's hard

1168
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: to tell how much of this he definitely does. Some

1169
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: of this. Some of it's lies, Like he claims that

1170
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: he was the manager of an IBM electronics division during

1171
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: the war, and we don't actually know if that's the

1172
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: case or not. There's not evidence of it.

1173
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,919
Speaker 1: Really, I feel like Charlatan's be Charlatan. Yeah, So it's

1174
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: hard for me to like know if like any of

1175
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: the achievements or whatever it's it.

1176
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. What we do know for a fact is that

1177
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: on May sixteenth, nineteen forty nine, in Tinsborough, Massachusetts, he

1178
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 2: dies aged seventy four from bladder cancer. And this is

1179
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 2: almost certainly due to all of the radiation tonics that

1180
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: he drank over the course of his life. So he

1181
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 2: lasted too long still, but uh, I don't know. Shane

1182
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: McGowan beat him by a year. So there's that.

1183
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: You've never read the book A drink with Shane McGowan,

1184
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: you should absolutely.

1185
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.

1186
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 3: Not to you, but to like a person listening.

1187
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen to I mean, all of his albums

1188
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 2: are great. I'm always if you're looking for an inroad

1189
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 2: into the Pogues, Rumsodomy and the Lash never been.

1190
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: Beat incredible and but also like read it, read the book,

1191
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: listen to the music at the same time.

1192
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 3: It's fucking tight.

1193
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, hell yeah. Well that's a happy note to

1194
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 2: end on. Listen, listen to and read Shade mcgo and

1195
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: don't irradiate yourself for unclear health benefits.

1196
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, if you were gonna drink some uranium tonight,

1197
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: maybe don't, maybe don't.

1198
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: Maybe no uranium to drink tonight?

1199
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: You know you do you girl?

1200
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: Okay, you can girl boss your way ins and some

1201
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: uranium if you want.

1202
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, why to tell you? Yeah?

1203
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 2: Uh so got anything to plug?

1204
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: Yes, please follow me to my new Patreon patreon dot

1205
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: com slash Sophia Alexandra and you can read my writing

1206
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: there and you can look at pictures and stuff and

1207
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: watch videos.

1208
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 3: It's it's a good ass time. So come through.

1209
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, come through, check it out, and uh you know,

1210
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: go to hell.

1211
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 3: I love you, We all love you. Take care of

1212
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 3: yourself unless you're Bill Bailey. Okay, bye.

1213
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1214
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 3: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1215
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1216
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1217
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.