WEBVTT - The Sunken Lands, Part 4

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 2>name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And I am Joe McCormick, and we are back with

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<v Speaker 3>the fourth and final part in our series called the

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<v Speaker 3>Sunken Lands, about places on Earth that relatively recently used

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<v Speaker 3>to be dry land but are now covered by water.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 3>In previous parts of the series we talked about, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>legendary lands of this sort Atlantis and other fictional or

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<v Speaker 3>mythical sunken civilizations. And sorry to be a bummer to

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<v Speaker 3>the many Atlantis hunters out there, but yes, it does

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<v Speaker 3>seem like the experts on the original sources that this

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<v Speaker 3>story comes from, namely a couple of dialogues of Plato,

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<v Speaker 3>think that it probably is a fictional invention and not

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<v Speaker 3>a reference to a real place that existed. But that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't mean that there are not lands that have been

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<v Speaker 3>within the history of the human species submerged by water.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, we know of some examples of places that

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<v Speaker 3>were both inhabited by humans and sunk under the water,

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<v Speaker 3>not really anything like was described in the Atlantis story,

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<v Speaker 3>but there are examples of the sunken land masses of

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<v Speaker 3>Beringia and dogger Land, which during and briefly after the

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<v Speaker 3>Last Ice Age formed land bridges between North America and

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<v Speaker 3>Asia and Great Britain and continental Europe perspectively. We also

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<v Speaker 3>talked about vanished islands in the Pacific. Some of these

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<v Speaker 3>supposedly vanished islands are probably a result of errors in

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<v Speaker 3>their original reporting, but others are places that probably actually

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<v Speaker 3>did vanish or sink beneath the water due to cataclysmic

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<v Speaker 3>seismic activity. We also talked about atolls, how they're formed,

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<v Speaker 3>and where their central islands went. There was a hypothesis

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<v Speaker 3>that Darwin had about this going all the way back

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<v Speaker 3>to his voyage on the Beagle. There are new ideas

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<v Speaker 3>related to karsification and the dissolution of carbonate rock or

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<v Speaker 3>limestone when it's exposed over the surface of the sea,

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<v Speaker 3>dissolution by rain water, and then also finally, in the

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<v Speaker 3>last episode, we talked about places that have been flooded

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<v Speaker 3>by damming, the damming of freshwater resources, damming rivers and

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<v Speaker 3>streams to end up submerging areas that used to be

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<v Speaker 3>exposed land now under lakes.

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<v Speaker 2>Now A quick note on just the idea of sunken

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<v Speaker 2>islands and sunken lands. We had a listener ask about

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<v Speaker 2>this and discord. So I want to just briefly point

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<v Speaker 2>out that, especially in our discussion of atolls in the

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<v Speaker 2>last episode, the terms sunk in or to sink may

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately be too simplistic for these discussions because they're all

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<v Speaker 2>very based on the human perspective of what's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>And in any case, we're talking about situations that may

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<v Speaker 2>entail both rising and lowering sea levels, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>land that is pushed up and or created by volcanic, organic,

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<v Speaker 2>or seismic forces, and land that lowers sometimes beneath water

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<v Speaker 2>level due to erosion, seismic forces, etc. So just in

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<v Speaker 2>all cases, just keep in mind that, yeah, sunk in

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<v Speaker 2>sinking maybe doesn't fully capture the picture of what's going on.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. Actually, as luck would have it, I do want

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<v Speaker 3>to get to one example of actual sinking of lands

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<v Speaker 3>in just a bit here. So in the background of

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<v Speaker 3>discussing these historical cases of landscapes covered by rising seas,

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<v Speaker 3>there is the knowledge that most of us have now

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<v Speaker 3>that relatively rapid increases in sea level are happening right

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<v Speaker 3>now and will continue in the coming decades due to

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<v Speaker 3>climate change, due to the warming of the seas the

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<v Speaker 3>melting of glaciers. Sea level changes have happened on Earth before,

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<v Speaker 3>but one thing that's different now is how much of

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<v Speaker 3>the physical infrastructure and culture of modern human civilization was

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<v Speaker 3>designed on the assumption of current sea levels staying where

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<v Speaker 3>they are. Whole cities, whole countries even are threatened by

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<v Speaker 3>rising waters because they have been built without those rising

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<v Speaker 3>waters in mind.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, some of the very places we've discussed, at least

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<v Speaker 2>in passing in these episodes, like the Maldives, are greatly

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<v Speaker 2>threatened by these rising sea waters.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, absolutely, But of course this applies to coastal settlements

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<v Speaker 3>all over the world, on every continent on Earth, though

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<v Speaker 3>though in different ways. Not every coastal settlement will be

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<v Speaker 3>affected the same, and I want to get to some

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<v Speaker 3>of that variance in just a bit here. But as

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<v Speaker 3>a baseline, I thought we should look at how much

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<v Speaker 3>are sea levels expected to rise in the next century

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<v Speaker 3>or so. That depends on a number of variables, but

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<v Speaker 3>I was looking at the most recent ipc SA report,

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<v Speaker 3>which had put together a series of estimates. First of all,

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<v Speaker 3>they look at the question of what is happening to

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<v Speaker 3>global mean sea level right now, what has already happened

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<v Speaker 3>in the traceable recent past, whatever happens in the future.

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<v Speaker 3>One thing we know for certain is that the sea

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<v Speaker 3>level is already rising and has already risen, and the

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<v Speaker 3>rate at which it rises will very likely accelerate in

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<v Speaker 3>the future. Based on our best measurements averaged over different

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<v Speaker 3>time periods, we can see that sea levels have risen

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<v Speaker 3>over over the past century, and the basically the more

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<v Speaker 3>recent the chunk of time you look at, is the

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<v Speaker 3>faster they're rising. So the IPCC report points out that

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<v Speaker 3>sea levels rose about one point four millimeters per year

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<v Speaker 3>if you look at the time period nineteen oh one

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<v Speaker 3>to nineteen ninety If you shift more recently and look

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<v Speaker 3>at nineteen seventy to twenty fifteen, it's two point one

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<v Speaker 3>millimeters per year. If you just look at nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 3>three to twenty fifteen, it's three point two millimeters per year.

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<v Speaker 3>If you just look at two thousand and six to

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<v Speaker 3>twenty fifteen, it's three point six millimeters per year. So

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<v Speaker 3>the later the period of the last century you look at,

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<v Speaker 3>the more it is rising per year. Now you might

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<v Speaker 3>reasonably wonder how do you actually measure sea level down

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<v Speaker 3>to the millimeter? Like the top of the water is

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<v Speaker 3>always moving, so that's a reasonable question. What methods do

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<v Speaker 3>you have to know that the average level of the

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<v Speaker 3>sea is rising. There are a couple of major metrics

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<v Speaker 3>here cited, and I didn't fully know how these worked beforehand,

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<v Speaker 3>so I thought this was interesting. One method used is

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<v Speaker 3>tide gauges. These systems have been used in some form

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<v Speaker 3>to record sea levels for hundreds of years, or at

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<v Speaker 3>least going back I think to the early eighteen hundreds,

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<v Speaker 3>though now they've changed form to incorporate different types of

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<v Speaker 3>sensors and computers and other modern components, but they still

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<v Speaker 3>have some things in common. So the old method here

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<v Speaker 3>was that they would use a device called a stilling well,

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<v Speaker 3>and this was basically a pipe about a foot wide

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<v Speaker 3>that would be plunged down into the water from a

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<v Speaker 3>place called a tide station, essentially a house built out

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<v Speaker 3>on a dock, and this pipe would still the water

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<v Speaker 3>around a floating device. The float would be suspended down

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<v Speaker 3>into the well by a wire, and then that wire

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<v Speaker 3>would be attached at the other end to a recording device,

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<v Speaker 3>which might be something like a pin that would mark

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<v Speaker 3>the water level automatically on a paper strip. So the

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<v Speaker 3>float floats on the top of the water. As the

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<v Speaker 3>water rises, the pin moves and marks that level on

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<v Speaker 3>the paper strip. As the water goes down, the pin

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<v Speaker 3>moves again, and then these marks were analyzed and averaged

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<v Speaker 3>together to form a picture of the tidal variance and

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<v Speaker 3>the average sea level over time. This method changed so

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<v Speaker 3>that the data could be fed directly into computers and

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<v Speaker 3>these tide stations also they had measuring staffs as well.

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<v Speaker 3>You've probably seen things like this somewhere around the coast before,

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<v Speaker 3>where it's just like a stick poking out of the water.

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<v Speaker 3>It's basically a ruler, you know, It's got height markings

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<v Speaker 3>on them, and then the operators could visually observe the

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<v Speaker 3>staff and compare that to the mechanical readings from the

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<v Speaker 3>float device. Now, tide gauges still exist and they still

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<v Speaker 3>make readings, but they've got new system new types of

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<v Speaker 3>sensors today to get their readings from. Modern tide gauges

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<v Speaker 3>tend to use acoustic sounding tubes instead of a float

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<v Speaker 3>and distilling well, so the acoustic sounding tube will admit

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<v Speaker 3>will emit a sound wave from a fixed height and

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<v Speaker 3>then wait for it to bounce off of the water's

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<v Speaker 3>surface and come back. And the time to return of

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<v Speaker 3>the signal allows you to calculate the height of the

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<v Speaker 3>water across the tidal variants. So you can put in

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<v Speaker 3>place these tide gauges in coastal environments all around the

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<v Speaker 3>world and average them out to try to get some

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<v Speaker 3>information about what the global sea levels are doing all

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<v Speaker 3>around the world. And if you look at that information,

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<v Speaker 3>it shows yes, indeed the sea levels have been rising.

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<v Speaker 3>They've been rising over the last century along the lines

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<v Speaker 3>of the measurements I mentioned a minute ago. But if

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<v Speaker 3>you're able, you'd also want to compare that data to

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<v Speaker 3>other sources of information to make sure you're getting the

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<v Speaker 3>most accurate possible average. So there is another method is used,

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<v Speaker 3>and that is altimetry. This is the use of satellite

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<v Speaker 3>based tools called radar altimeters to measure the height of

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<v Speaker 3>the sea. Basically, you can know the altitude of a

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<v Speaker 3>satellite with a high degree of precision. You can track

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<v Speaker 3>that with instruments like laser range rangefinders, like you bounce

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<v Speaker 3>a laser off the satellite, so you can tell pretty

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<v Speaker 3>much exactly how high it is. And then with that

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<v Speaker 3>information in mind, you can use a satellite to send

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<v Speaker 3>out a microwave pulse toward the Earth. That pulse bounces

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<v Speaker 3>off of the surface of the ocean and then bounces

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<v Speaker 3>back to the satellite and hits a return sensor, and

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<v Speaker 3>then the satellite measures the time of the round trip

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<v Speaker 3>between the emitter and the surface of the ocean to

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<v Speaker 3>get a very precise measurement of the distance between the

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<v Speaker 3>satellite and the water, which, again in combination with the

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<v Speaker 3>precisely known altitude of the satellite, can be used to

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<v Speaker 3>measure the level of the sea. And of course radar

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<v Speaker 3>altimetry can be used to measure average sea level changes

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<v Speaker 3>over time and get global averages and stuff, but it

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<v Speaker 3>can be also used I thought this was interesting to

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<v Speaker 3>measure variations in the height of the water around the

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<v Speaker 3>world at the same time. So a kind of crazy

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<v Speaker 3>thing about the ocean is that it is not at

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<v Speaker 3>the same height everywhere on Earth all the time. That

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<v Speaker 3>seems counterintuitive because you think of water and a container

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<v Speaker 3>like a bowl or something eventually finding you know, finding

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<v Speaker 3>its own level. It kind of levels out. But across

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<v Speaker 3>the world's oceans there are peaks and valleys that arise

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<v Speaker 3>in certain places at certain times, and so one example

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<v Speaker 3>we're all familiar with is the tide. You know, the

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<v Speaker 3>tide is caused mainly by gravity, by the gravitational influence

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<v Speaker 3>of the moon, but also the Sun. But there are

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<v Speaker 3>other factors that can cause local and sometimes temporary high

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<v Speaker 3>and low altitudes of seawater as well. I was reading

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<v Speaker 3>a report from NASA Earth Observatory about this and it

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned friction caused by wind on the surface of the water,

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<v Speaker 3>So like wind sort of dragging the water around and

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<v Speaker 3>piling it up in certain places. I guess that's a

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<v Speaker 3>crude way of describing it, but that is sort of

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<v Speaker 3>what happens. There are also Coriolis effects and ocean currents,

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<v Speaker 3>and there are also effects of variations in atmospheric pressure,

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<v Speaker 3>so you know, the atmosphere pushing the surface of the

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<v Speaker 3>water down in regions where the pressure is high and

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<v Speaker 3>so forth. And we can measure these altitude variations across

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<v Speaker 3>the ocean with the help of satellite based radar altimetry.

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<v Speaker 3>As just one example of the variance in the height

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<v Speaker 3>of the oceans around the world. According to NASA, the

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<v Speaker 3>sea level in the Pacific Ocean is generally higher than

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<v Speaker 3>the Atlantic Ocean, roughly twenty centimeters or about eight inches higher.

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<v Speaker 3>How is that possible, Well, the volume of seawater is

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<v Speaker 3>not static. Changes in the temperature and salinity of seawater

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<v Speaker 3>affect its density, so warmer water generally is less dense,

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<v Speaker 3>it takes up more space per unit of mass. The

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<v Speaker 3>Pacific is on average warmer, so its volume is greater,

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<v Speaker 3>and thus Pacific sea levels are higher, and other factors

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<v Speaker 3>contribute like this as well. This kind of variation is

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<v Speaker 3>actually acknowledged in the IPCC report where they say, quote

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<v Speaker 3>sea level rise is not globally uniform and varies regionally.

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<v Speaker 3>Thermal expansion, ocean dynamics, and land ice loss contributions will

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<v Speaker 3>generate regional departures of about plus or minus thirty percent

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<v Speaker 3>around the global means sea level rise, and those regional

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<v Speaker 3>variations in changes in sea level I want to come

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<v Speaker 3>back to that in a minute.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, we all know the main cause of the

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<v Speaker 3>current warming that is driving sea level rise is, of

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<v Speaker 3>course what the IPCC report calls anthropogenic forcing. This means

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<v Speaker 3>results of human activity, primarily the changing of the composition

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<v Speaker 3>of the atmosphere it to trap more heat This is

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<v Speaker 3>the famous greenhouse effect. Putting more things like carbon methane

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<v Speaker 3>into the atmosphere increases the heat trapping potency of the atmosphere.

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 3>It traps more heat the earth worms. So we know

0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.959
<v Speaker 3>sea levels have been rising and they will continue to rise,

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 3>but how much and how fast they rise is highly

0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.559
<v Speaker 3>variable from our current point of view. So there are

0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 3>some estimates based on current data. According to the IPCC

0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 3>predictions relative to the mean sea level in the period

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 3>from nineteen eighty six to two thousand and five, they

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.080
<v Speaker 3>predict that the global mean sea level will rise probably

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 3>somewhere between zero point four to three meters or about

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 3>one point four feet to zero point eight four meters,

0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 3>which is about two point eight feet, by the year

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 3>twenty one hundred, and then due to a cascade of factors,

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.400
<v Speaker 3>sea levels will continued to rise for centuries after that,

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.719
<v Speaker 3>and we'll probably stay higher for thousands of hyears. Now,

0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.240
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't hang on those exact numbers too much because

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 3>those are estimates. There are also averages of estimates, and

0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 3>I've seen other reports with different estimates, especially at the

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.400
<v Speaker 3>high end of like how bad could it possibly get

0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.240
<v Speaker 3>if we just keep increasing more and more greenhouse gas emissions.

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 3>But the important thing to note is that the high

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.800
<v Speaker 3>and low end projections here are dependent on the variable

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.560
<v Speaker 3>of human activity. So if we continue increasing the concentration

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 3>of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, we're somewhat closer to

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.080
<v Speaker 3>the top end of that range, and the low end

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 3>is feasible if we drastically reduce greenhouse gas output and

0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.040
<v Speaker 3>factor in some kind of negative emissions as well, such

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 3>as massive natural or artificial carbon sequestration, and natural carbon

0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 3>sequestration would be trapping carbon in things like plants, forests.

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so as is. I've heard a lot of experts

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 2>say it's not that there isn't room for optimism in

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 2>all of this, but the optimism does not come without action, Right,

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 2>there are definite steps that need to be taken. We

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 2>can't just be like, ah, it might be, it might

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>be okay, maybe it's just gonna be the lower We'll

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 2>just we'll roll the dice and see, like that's not

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>how it's going to work out.

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's exactly right. The lower end of the prediction

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 3>range there is based on an assumption of action. If

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 3>humanity does something to massively reduce the contribution to global

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 3>warming through greenhouse gases, So in that case, yes, we

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 3>could limit it to the lower levels of sea level rise.

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 3>But to be clear, some amount of sea level rise

0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.320
<v Speaker 3>at this point has already happened and is basically locked in.

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 3>The question is how much worse will it get? And

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 3>that outcome is clearly dependent to a large extent on

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 3>what we do. But in most plausible scenarios we can

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 3>expect somewhere between something like one and three feet of

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.840
<v Speaker 3>global sea level rise by the end of this century.

0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 3>Now I mentioned there are other estimates I've come across.

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 3>Some of these are specifically focused on like certain countries

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 3>or regions, or might might be drawing on some emphasizing

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.480
<v Speaker 3>different data sources or something. But another estimate I came

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 3>across was a twenty twenty two joint report by NASA,

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 3>the NOAA, and several other federal agencies of the US

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 3>government called Global and Regional Sea Level Rise Scenarios for

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 3>the United States. This was an update to a previous

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 3>report from twenty seventeen, and this report quote concludes that

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 3>sea level along US coast lines will rise ten to

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.840
<v Speaker 3>twelve inches or twenty five to thirty centimeters on average

0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 3>above today's levels by twenty fifty, so that's predicting roughly

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.080
<v Speaker 3>a foot of increase by the middle of the century.

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Also on the more dire end, this one was predicting

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 3>much higher levels of sea level rise at the basically

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 3>at the letter rip scenario. It's just like do nothing

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.840
<v Speaker 3>scenario by the end of this century. If you want

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.399
<v Speaker 3>to experiment with the findings of this report, it actually

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 3>has an online mapping tool you can look up you

0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 3>and mess around with yourself, called the Interagency Sea Level

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 3>Rise Scenario Tool. You can google that and mess with

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.080
<v Speaker 3>it yourself if you want. Now, there are a couple

0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 3>of major contributors to the actual physical causes of sea

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.360
<v Speaker 3>level rise due to a warming climate. One of them

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.800
<v Speaker 3>is melting ice, melting glaciers and ice sheets. We've already

0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 3>talked about the role of melting ice in the sea

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 3>level increases at the end of the Pleistocene, which were

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.879
<v Speaker 3>responsible for inundating Doggerland and Beringia, But there's still a

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.320
<v Speaker 3>lot of ice on Earth left to melt. Another important

0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.840
<v Speaker 3>cause of sea level rise is the thermal expansion of water.

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Remember what I was talking about a minute ago, with

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.439
<v Speaker 3>the difference in the height of the Pacific Ocean versus

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.760
<v Speaker 3>the Atlantic Ocean. One factor there being that the Pacific

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 3>Ocean waters on average are warmer. This stacks on top

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.399
<v Speaker 3>of the melting, but as water heats up, it becomes

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.880
<v Speaker 3>less dense and takes up more space. Warmer water takes

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.200
<v Speaker 3>up more space per unit of mass, so warmer oceans

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 3>will be taller. And the thermal expansion of water plays

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 3>a role already in a number of different phenomena that

0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 3>happened within the ocean, for example in the in the

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.960
<v Speaker 3>creation of ocean currents and in stratification of water levels

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 3>within the ocean. Like warmer water floats on top of

0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 3>colder water, but anyway, as the Earth warms, the water

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 3>thermally expands also, so that contributes to the sea level

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 3>being higher. Now, what does this actually mean for the

0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.520
<v Speaker 3>everyday life of people living in low lying coastal areas

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.639
<v Speaker 3>of planet Earth. I think one thing people sometimes like,

0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.639
<v Speaker 3>if you haven't read much about this, you might have

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 3>trouble imagining the form exactly this will take. Like you're

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 3>just imagining the sea rising in a kind of static way,

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.920
<v Speaker 3>Like you know, it's either dry land or it's underwater.

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.400
<v Speaker 3>What's in between? There actually is something in between, which

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 3>is frequent flooding. The way many people will probably experience

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.639
<v Speaker 3>sea level rise at first is an increase in the

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 3>frequency and destructiveness of extreme weather events that are dependent

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 3>on sea level for the amount of damage they cause.

0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 3>So a person who lives in a low lying coastal

0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.919
<v Speaker 3>city will start dealing with storm related floods on a

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 3>more and more frequent basis. What used to be a

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.200
<v Speaker 3>once in a century flood will become a regular occurrence,

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 3>until at some point the flooding becomes so common that

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 3>people may start to simply consider a place uninhabitable. And

0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 3>this happens before that place is more or less permanently underwater,

0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 3>But that eventually happens too. Of course, this kind of

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.679
<v Speaker 3>flooding and water encroachment, it comes with all kinds of

0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:00.680
<v Speaker 3>consequences of massive economic damage, destruction of property, destruction of life, livelihoods,

0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 3>displacement of people, and all of the downstream effects of that.

0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 3>But another factor people might not think about are the

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 3>effects of the ingress of salt water into places with

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.920
<v Speaker 3>freshwater resources, like into river deltas and so forth. Of course,

0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 3>this can have negative effects on habitats and wildlife, but

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 3>also on agriculture and groundwater and all that. You don't

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.639
<v Speaker 3>want to salt your earth. But to come back to

0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:30.199
<v Speaker 3>an issue I raised earlier, an interesting factor contributing to

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 3>the coming inundation of coastal areas and especially coastal cities,

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.399
<v Speaker 3>is that not only are sea levels definitely rising around

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:42.159
<v Speaker 3>the globe and differently in different places, in some places

0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.439
<v Speaker 3>the ground is literally sinking. The lands are not just

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.639
<v Speaker 3>metaphorically sunken because the water covers them, they are quite

0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.600
<v Speaker 3>literally directly sunken. The land is going down. So you

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.159
<v Speaker 3>might have a coastal city that is experiencing more and

0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 3>more frequent flooding during storm surges as the sea grows taller,

0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.280
<v Speaker 3>But also the ground level of the city is several

0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.240
<v Speaker 3>millimeters lower every year, which makes the relative sea level

0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.800
<v Speaker 3>rise even worse. Now, how is that possible? Well, there

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.359
<v Speaker 3>are multiple causes, but I was reading about this in

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 3>a major One of the causes seems to be the

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:23.680
<v Speaker 3>extraction of ground water from underlying aquifers. Especially you're extracting

0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 3>it faster than those aquifers are replenished, and as the

0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 3>water is extracted, it creates these voids underground. These voids

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 3>grow the soil gets compressed, especially if you're putting a

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 3>bunch of heavy stuff on the soil, such as a

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 3>city like building on top of it, and then that

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.560
<v Speaker 3>compressing of the ground and the compressing into the voids

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 3>below essentially means the city literally starts to sink. And

0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 3>this is happening to cities all around the world. I

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:56.159
<v Speaker 3>was reading a really interesting article that addresses this issue.

0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.840
<v Speaker 3>It's in Wired by Matt Simon called sea level rise

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:05.160
<v Speaker 3>be catastrophic and unequal. So this article is emphasizing again

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:08.440
<v Speaker 3>that the global means sea level rise estimates are averages.

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 3>In specific places, the problem could be not as bad

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:17.800
<v Speaker 3>or much much worse. Simon writes, quote Galveston, Texas, where

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 3>the land is slumping, could see almost two feet of

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.960
<v Speaker 3>rise by the year twenty fifty. Meanwhile, Anchorage, Alaska could

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.280
<v Speaker 3>see eight inches of sea level drop thanks to the

0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:32.160
<v Speaker 3>fact that its land is actually rising following the departure

0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 3>of long gone glaciers. So why is Galveston, Texas sinking

0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.359
<v Speaker 3>relative to the sea level, he says, Mainly, there are

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.879
<v Speaker 3>two causes here, and they're both related to the extraction

0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.679
<v Speaker 3>of liquids from underground reservoirs. One is the extraction of

0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 3>water and the other is oil extraction of oil. And

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.119
<v Speaker 3>this is true in many places as a result of

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 3>the combination of global sea level rise and land subsidence.

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 3>Some of the areas of the world that are going

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.560
<v Speaker 3>to be the hardest hit by the greatest relative local

0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.240
<v Speaker 3>sea level rise are on the Gulf Coast of the

0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.199
<v Speaker 3>United States, the Gulf Coast, because they're suffering both of

0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:12.240
<v Speaker 3>these at the same time. The land is going down

0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.280
<v Speaker 3>and the sea is coming up. Simon in this article

0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.199
<v Speaker 3>quotes a guy named Bob Stokes who is president of

0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 3>the conservation nonprofit called the Galveston Bay Foundation, and he

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.120
<v Speaker 3>tells a story that I thought was wild. So this

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:29.199
<v Speaker 3>is Stokes talking in the article. He says, quote, the

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:31.320
<v Speaker 3>numbers I'm going to give you are are going to

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 3>be hard to believe. But there is an area in

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.399
<v Speaker 3>Baytown where there is a big Exxon mobile industrial plant

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.439
<v Speaker 3>that sank about eleven feet in a period of fifty

0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:44.640
<v Speaker 3>or sixty years because they were unsustainably pulling water out

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:47.119
<v Speaker 3>of there. There was a nice and upper middle class

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 3>subdivision where all the Exxon executives lived that ultimately had

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.200
<v Speaker 3>to be condemned because water was lapping up the foundations

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.680
<v Speaker 3>of these houses, So there water and oil being extracted

0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:00.439
<v Speaker 3>from below. The land is sinking and the sea is

0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 3>coming up. Meanwhile, with the example of Anchorage, Alaska, this

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.240
<v Speaker 3>is typical of many areas on the southern coast of

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Alaska where the ground is rising due to glacial retreat.

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 3>This is called glacial isostatic adjustment, and Simon uses the

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 3>analogy of when you get up off of a memory

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:23.200
<v Speaker 3>foam mattress and that mattress gradually fills in the dent

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:25.919
<v Speaker 3>you left with your body. That's kind of what the

0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:29.560
<v Speaker 3>land does when a glacier retreats. When a glacier melts away,

0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.159
<v Speaker 3>it sort of bounces back up. So areas where the

0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 3>land is rising relative to the sea are going to

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.040
<v Speaker 3>be on average hit less by global mean sea level increases,

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.520
<v Speaker 3>and areas where the land is literally sinking, such as

0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:46.159
<v Speaker 3>in many cities on the Gulf Coast, they're going to

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 3>be hit harder than average. And there are a lot

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.199
<v Speaker 3>of sinking cities, not just on the Gulf Coast, but

0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 3>according to the map included all along the US East coast. Now,

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:58.240
<v Speaker 3>this article goes on to talk about other factors contributing

0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.200
<v Speaker 3>to the regional variation in the effects of sea level

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:05.440
<v Speaker 3>rise as well, such as local characteristics of water. You know,

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:08.919
<v Speaker 3>warmer waters, as we said earlier, usually mean higher sea levels,

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:13.320
<v Speaker 3>but also more storm surge and things like that. But

0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.680
<v Speaker 3>important thing to remember at the end of this projections

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 3>are variable. At this point, some amount of sea level

0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:23.280
<v Speaker 3>rise is locked in, but humanity has power over how

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 3>much worse the problem gets, and the recipe for minimizing

0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:30.679
<v Speaker 3>damage to world civilization is reducing greenhouse gases in the

0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:34.199
<v Speaker 3>atmosphere as much as possible, stop adding them, and to

0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:35.920
<v Speaker 3>the extent possible, take them out.

0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, basically, the natural environment is maguable, as we've discussed,

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 2>and humanity has tremendous power and tremendous will. We see

0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:50.399
<v Speaker 2>that in the degree to which we have and are

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>changing things. But that power and will can also be

0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:57.960
<v Speaker 2>applied to changing the ways that we are interacting with

0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 2>the natural world for the better. But again, it does

0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:05.200
<v Speaker 2>require action. It doesn't require just setting back and hoping

0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:07.719
<v Speaker 2>that it will be better or pretending that the problem

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:08.480
<v Speaker 2>does not exist.

0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 3>Correct.

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:22.480
<v Speaker 2>All right, So this is the fourth part of our series,

0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:26.320
<v Speaker 2>and we could honestly easily keep going, but we can't

0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 2>because they've got some Christmas stuff to do next week.

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:32.120
<v Speaker 2>So in this last section, I'd like to refer to

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:36.679
<v Speaker 2>the ancient Hindu Hindu epic the Ramayana, which I do

0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:38.600
<v Speaker 2>want to add a note. I've brought this up in

0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the show, but I've brought the topic up on the

0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:41.920
<v Speaker 2>show before, but I don't know that I've been using

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 2>the proper pronunciation. I may have said it wrong in

0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:48.520
<v Speaker 2>the past, in which case my apologies. But the Ramayana,

0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:53.359
<v Speaker 2>which chronicles the life of King Rama or Ram, an

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.920
<v Speaker 2>incarnation of Vishnu. If if you're not familiar with the story,

0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:58.639
<v Speaker 2>there are lots of ins and outs. It's essentially the

0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:02.640
<v Speaker 2>story of this of this mythical king, this divine king's life.

0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:06.840
<v Speaker 2>But there's perhaps the most famous plot line in there

0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:09.400
<v Speaker 2>is that his wife Sita is kidnapped by the ten

0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:12.399
<v Speaker 2>headed demon King of Ravana, who takes her away to

0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the land of Lanka, provoking a great war to reclaim her. So,

0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:20.280
<v Speaker 2>of course Rama has to assemble the troops. He has

0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:24.440
<v Speaker 2>to gather his forces, and this includes various figures and factions,

0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:30.000
<v Speaker 2>including a people known as the Vanara. In short, the

0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Vanara are the monkeys if you've seen illustrations of the

0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Ramayana before, you've you know, some of the related traditions.

0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 2>You've you've probably seen images of these various monkey troops

0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:44.360
<v Speaker 2>aiding Rama. And of course you may be familiar with Hahneman,

0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:47.359
<v Speaker 2>the most famous of the Vannara. This is, you know,

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.919
<v Speaker 2>the tireless friend to Rama and his you know, his

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 2>key champion and a very powerful entity that is, I

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:58.359
<v Speaker 2>believe the son of a wind deity in some traditions. So,

0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 2>but I was looking in the into the venera a

0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:05.919
<v Speaker 2>bit more. And according to the author Nanditha Krishna in

0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 2>the book Sacred Animals of India, which I've referred to

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:11.680
<v Speaker 2>in the past, the Sanskrit word for primate is actually

0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 2>copy but the word used in the Ramayana Venara essentially

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:21.360
<v Speaker 2>translates to people of the forest, with Vana being forest

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:26.439
<v Speaker 2>and Nara being men. Interesting, yeah, the author writes that

0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 2>this term probably never actually meant monkey. In fact, in Jainism,

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:37.479
<v Speaker 2>the Venara are described as a forest dwelling tribe of people,

0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:40.920
<v Speaker 2>and elsewhere in the Hindu epic the Mahabarata, they are

0:28:40.920 --> 0:28:44.040
<v Speaker 2>also discussed as such, contributing to this kind of mythic

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:48.040
<v Speaker 2>transformation from perhaps, you know, some sort of forest dwelling people,

0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:53.640
<v Speaker 2>too intelligent humanoid primates. It might have been that these people,

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>to whatever extent you know, they were real. They may

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:00.959
<v Speaker 2>have been worshippers of a primate themed deity, or they

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 2>might have used some sort of primate themed totem of

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 2>some sort, or some sort of totem system, But the

0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:09.360
<v Speaker 2>author stresses that it could also be neither of these.

0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:13.520
<v Speaker 2>We just don't know, And so the Venar include several

0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:17.840
<v Speaker 2>important individuals that pop up in the epic. There's Mighty Haneman,

0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 2>as we already noted, most famous of them all. There's

0:29:21.280 --> 0:29:24.600
<v Speaker 2>King Sogriva, and there's also a pair of twins known

0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 2>as Nala and Nila. And the twins ate is especially

0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 2>important because Rama must deliver his army across the waters

0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:35.440
<v Speaker 2>to the island fortress of Lanka in order to reclaim

0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:39.800
<v Speaker 2>his bride, and so, as the epic describes, they have

0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:43.040
<v Speaker 2>to create a bridge, and this is where Nala and

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:47.400
<v Speaker 2>sometimes Nila depending on the version, becomes essential. This is

0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:51.160
<v Speaker 2>a quote from the Ramayana. In translation of course, quote

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:54.480
<v Speaker 2>a bridge was thrown by Nala or the narrow sea

0:29:54.560 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 2>from shore to shore. They crossed to Lanka's Golden town,

0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:00.640
<v Speaker 2>where Rama's hands smote Ravi down.

0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:04.880
<v Speaker 3>A bridge was thrown. Wow, how do you throw a bridge?

0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, this is where this sort of things get get interesting,

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:12.959
<v Speaker 2>dissecting all of this, because the accounts apparently vary. In

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 2>some cases, the resulting bridge that gets thrown or constructed

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.440
<v Speaker 2>is in fact a great bridge that it's you know,

0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:25.680
<v Speaker 2>something built. It's constructed. It's perhaps made it would at

0:30:25.720 --> 0:30:29.800
<v Speaker 2>the base and then become stone further up. You know,

0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:35.120
<v Speaker 2>it is like a huge megalwork that connects one land

0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:36.959
<v Speaker 2>to the next so that the army can march over it.

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Other times it's described more as I mean, it's still

0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.800
<v Speaker 2>something that's constructed, but with a lot more magic involved.

0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Like there are stories about the Varna using floating stones

0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:52.920
<v Speaker 2>to build this bridge, throwing the stones in the water,

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>and in some cases these are stones that kind of

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:57.040
<v Speaker 2>float on their own already. But then there are other

0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>accounts where like there's a certain amount of monkey trickiness.

0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.760
<v Speaker 2>It's involved, like they do something like I think the

0:31:02.800 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 2>account that I was reading, one of the accounts is

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 2>that they were like throwing holy items into the water,

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and the gods said Okay, that's that nothing. The monkey's

0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.160
<v Speaker 2>throwing the water can sink. Everything has to float. We

0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 2>can't have the stuff sinking to the bottom. And then

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:16.560
<v Speaker 2>they starts throwing the stones in and they kind of

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:18.840
<v Speaker 2>find a loophole to build the bridge.

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:20.360
<v Speaker 3>Brilliant leve a loophole.

0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but at any rate, there's no like one way.

0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Apparently there are different accounts, different stories, but we end

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:31.800
<v Speaker 2>up with the idea of a bridge one way or another.

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:35.520
<v Speaker 2>This is Rama's bridge or the Rama sit to now,

0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:38.240
<v Speaker 2>especially since this has already come up in this series

0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>we're doing, and I know some of you are thinking

0:31:40.000 --> 0:31:44.880
<v Speaker 2>about those floating pumice rocks and wondering if observations of

0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 2>this phenomenon might have influenced the myth making or if

0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>this has anything to do with it, And apparently this

0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 2>has been discussed those the number of criticisms emerge concerning

0:31:56.040 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>like the lack of such stones in areas that are

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 2>discussed as possibly linking up with the area where this

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.480
<v Speaker 2>great bridge could have been or it's supposed to have been.

0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.000
<v Speaker 2>More on that in a second. And then of course

0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>you get into some other situations too, like it's one

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.280
<v Speaker 2>thing for you could I guess you could say, like

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the idea could be passed on and then could spill

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:19.560
<v Speaker 2>over into some myth making. But could you actually build

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 2>a bridge using pumice stones? I think there's significantly less

0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:23.960
<v Speaker 2>evidence for that.

0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:26.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, would they support your weight? I mean I would

0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 3>think it'd be more like the you know, the ball pit.

0:32:28.360 --> 0:32:30.040
<v Speaker 3>You kind of fall in between them.

0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think they're also just more convincing ideas

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.960
<v Speaker 2>regarding all of this. So, of course, the big questions

0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:40.600
<v Speaker 2>here would be, Okay, first of all, did something even

0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:45.680
<v Speaker 2>remotely like the events of this Hindu epic ever take place?

0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 2>And if so, where did it take place? Where would

0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:51.840
<v Speaker 2>this bridge have been, and what land masses would it

0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.400
<v Speaker 2>have been linking. So, versions of question one, to be clear,

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.560
<v Speaker 2>turn up in all religions, and they're often asked with

0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 2>different objectives in mind. Very broadly speaking, some researchers seek

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 2>to prove religious accounts correct by finding corroborating evidence in archaeology, history,

0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:11.680
<v Speaker 2>and geology, while others seek to employ religious text to

0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:15.920
<v Speaker 2>it to better understand human and geologic history. Again, very

0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 2>broadly speaking, because you can wind up with a little

0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 2>bit of column A and column B and vice versa.

0:33:21.480 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 2>And human motivations are ultimately complicated, but it also means

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:28.280
<v Speaker 2>that these sorts of discussions can generate strong emotions as well.

0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:31.280
<v Speaker 2>So I would suppose we should stress something that we

0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:34.720
<v Speaker 2>often touch on, that mythology is not fiction, even if

0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>it is not objective reality. Not to say that it

0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>is necessarily completely removed from objective reality, but it's kind

0:33:41.840 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 2>of this third category between the two that can still

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:48.680
<v Speaker 2>empower us on multiple levels and give life meaning without

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:53.360
<v Speaker 2>being like one to one with the objective world.

0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, I've often spoken this opinion with reference to

0:33:56.800 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 3>things like the creation story told in Genesis or something that.

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 3>Are you sure that the people who first wrote this

0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:07.240
<v Speaker 3>story even necessarily meant it to be taken as a literal,

0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:08.319
<v Speaker 3>factual account.

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you know, it kind of comes back to

0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:12.200
<v Speaker 2>some of the things we're discussing just concerning some of

0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:15.640
<v Speaker 2>these ideas of different lost islands and so forth. It's like,

0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:18.839
<v Speaker 2>we always want to find that one reason, that one explanation,

0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 2>and you know, oftentimes, especially when we're dealing with things

0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>like this, that are concepts that exist not only in

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 2>one human imagination, but in multiple human imaginations spread out

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:33.399
<v Speaker 2>across different communities and cultures over long stretches of time,

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.440
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of room for various influences to shape

0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:42.120
<v Speaker 2>the final form of the thing. So anyway, coming to

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:46.080
<v Speaker 2>this idea of a bridge, where would you possibly look

0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:48.799
<v Speaker 2>for evidence of this? So a lot of it comes

0:34:48.800 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 2>down to the possible location of the island of Lanka.

0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:55.000
<v Speaker 2>And there's a great deal of scholarship on this question alone,

0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:57.759
<v Speaker 2>with the prime candidate seeming to be the island of

0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Sri Lanka. The Maldives, Sumatra, and even Madagascar have also

0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:06.640
<v Speaker 2>been discussed. But and of course conspiracy minded folks are

0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 2>not above suggesting Atlantis. That it was Atlantis, but it was, Yeah,

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:15.920
<v Speaker 2>it was not Atlantis. So for for our purposes here,

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:19.240
<v Speaker 2>we're going to focus mostly on Sri Lanka, as that's

0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:22.440
<v Speaker 2>where there's some really interesting evidence to discuss, and that

0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.120
<v Speaker 2>seems to where to be where a lot of the

0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:28.320
<v Speaker 2>energy seems to be going. Sri Lanka is easily spotted

0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:32.160
<v Speaker 2>on any map, separated from the Indian Peninsula by the

0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:35.759
<v Speaker 2>Gulf of Manar and the Palk Strait. It has been

0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:39.480
<v Speaker 2>inhabited by humans since prehistoric times, and so it's you know,

0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 2>it's been it's been presented and There's there's additional evidence

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:44.239
<v Speaker 2>to support this idea as well that we don't have

0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:45.839
<v Speaker 2>time to get into. But a lot of people make

0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:51.080
<v Speaker 2>the case that Sri Lanka was Lanka, and so yeah,

0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:53.879
<v Speaker 2>how would you get an army, an ancient army, uh,

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 2>supernatural otherwise from point A to point B. Well, this

0:35:57.480 --> 0:35:59.759
<v Speaker 2>is of course where the bridge comes in. And of course,

0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 2>in the context of a mythic story, you know, the

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:04.840
<v Speaker 2>bridge doesn't have to be anything that corresponds with actual

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 2>geology or time specific technology. I mean, people can imagine

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:14.319
<v Speaker 2>bridges spanning impossible distances, that sort of thing. I think

0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 2>all that goes without saying, and there's plenty of things

0:36:17.000 --> 0:36:20.080
<v Speaker 2>that happen in the Hindu epics that are inherently supernatural.

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:23.880
<v Speaker 2>But attempts to nail down a possible actual bridge to

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Sri Lanka would constitute either a manufactured bridge and or

0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:33.239
<v Speaker 2>a naturally occurring bridge. It's the idea of at least

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.120
<v Speaker 2>some level of naturally occurring bridge. This is where it

0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:39.920
<v Speaker 2>gets really interesting because there is a chain of limestone

0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:43.799
<v Speaker 2>shoals between Minar Island off the northwest coast of Sri

0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Lanka and Ramaswaram Island off the southeast coast of India,

0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:53.319
<v Speaker 2>interconnected with sandbanks. It all forms a thirty mile or

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 2>forty eight kilometer long quote unquote bridge and it is

0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.120
<v Speaker 2>shallow enough to pose a navigational hazard to ship.

0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay. So it's almost like if you know, if

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:05.560
<v Speaker 3>the water levels were a little bit lower or something

0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:08.319
<v Speaker 3>were piled up here, you can imagine something like a

0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:09.160
<v Speaker 3>bridge emerging.

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, And so this and this is something that

0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:18.479
<v Speaker 2>has captivated the human imagination for a while and cause

0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:22.160
<v Speaker 2>people to, you know, logically, wonder could this be what

0:37:22.480 --> 0:37:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the epics are talking about? So this is also commonly

0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:29.920
<v Speaker 2>known as Adams Bridge. The name linked to an Islamic

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:32.239
<v Speaker 2>tradition and I think sometimes a Christian tradition as well,

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:35.800
<v Speaker 2>that holds that Adam's Peak on Sri Lanka is where Adam,

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:41.839
<v Speaker 2>the first human and Abrahamic traditions fell to earth, and

0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:47.359
<v Speaker 2>the mountain in question here is also sacred in Hinduism.

0:37:47.400 --> 0:37:49.479
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that

0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:54.439
<v Speaker 2>these shoals and sandbars constitute a former land bridge, Though

0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:59.319
<v Speaker 2>estimated dates vary, cartographical records suggests that it may have

0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:03.280
<v Speaker 2>been whole and even traversible until the year fourteen eighty

0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:06.520
<v Speaker 2>and the beginning in fourteen eighty you might have had

0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 2>a series of storms that ended up washing sections of

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:16.040
<v Speaker 2>it away, storm breaches that end up making taking away

0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:18.160
<v Speaker 2>this portion of it in another portion, until you're left

0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:19.920
<v Speaker 2>with something that is no longer traversible.

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 3>Ah. Well, so that is much more recent than any

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.120
<v Speaker 3>of the than the land bridges we've been talking about

0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:28.200
<v Speaker 3>in the other episodes of like the or the so

0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:32.839
<v Speaker 3>called land bridges, the former areas of dogger Land and Boringia,

0:38:32.880 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 3>which are that are now underwater and have been for

0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:38.400
<v Speaker 3>many thousands of years. This is just a question of

0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:41.560
<v Speaker 3>a few centuries comparatively very recent, if true.

0:38:42.160 --> 0:38:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, though of course there are all sorts of

0:38:44.600 --> 0:38:46.560
<v Speaker 2>questions that arise in this, like is it too recent,

0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:49.080
<v Speaker 2>is it something that would be something that might have

0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:54.719
<v Speaker 2>emerged and then resemble something from pre existing mythology, or

0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:57.960
<v Speaker 2>as indeed, as many people you know believe, is it

0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 2>evidence of something that is described in the Hindu epics.

0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:06.680
<v Speaker 2>So it's fascinating to think about those things, and also

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:11.880
<v Speaker 2>thinking about like reports of it being traversible from centuries past,

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:13.879
<v Speaker 2>like to what extent can we trust those we've already

0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 2>talked about whole islands that have been cataloged due to

0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:22.440
<v Speaker 2>various errors or sort of sing deciding to err on

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 2>the side of caution when identifying things that could be

0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:29.759
<v Speaker 2>a navigational hazard to ships and so forth. But at

0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:32.960
<v Speaker 2>any rate, there is evidence of something here, and there

0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>are various theories about its natural formation. They ranged from

0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 2>tectonic forces to coral sand trapping, water, current movements of sand,

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and so forth. So there is this idea that it

0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:47.120
<v Speaker 2>could have been certainly a naturally occurring opportunity that could

0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:50.680
<v Speaker 2>have been augmented them by human beings to some degree,

0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:53.399
<v Speaker 2>which I don't think is all that outrageous, at least

0:39:53.400 --> 0:39:56.400
<v Speaker 2>if you consider like small scale efforts to shore up

0:39:56.480 --> 0:40:00.160
<v Speaker 2>or repair individual segments in a chain like this, and

0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:02.520
<v Speaker 2>then on top of that, I mean, ancient peoples were

0:40:02.640 --> 0:40:06.520
<v Speaker 2>certainly capable of larger scale engineering projects as well, though

0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:08.719
<v Speaker 2>based on the sources I was looking at, I don't

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:12.319
<v Speaker 2>think there's any strong scientific evidence for the idea that

0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:16.400
<v Speaker 2>it was largely constructed or that it was constructed entirely.

0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:21.560
<v Speaker 2>But again, this is an area of controversy. So setting

0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 2>aside how it came to be, we can be reasonably

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 2>sure that remnants that the remnants we see here do

0:40:28.160 --> 0:40:31.440
<v Speaker 2>constitute a one time land bridge that in its current

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:35.040
<v Speaker 2>form is no longer traversible, likely due to changes in

0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:37.799
<v Speaker 2>sea level and storm activity some combination of the two.

0:40:38.640 --> 0:40:40.920
<v Speaker 2>And there have been proposals to dredge more of it

0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:46.919
<v Speaker 2>out in order to improve navigation by boat. But this

0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 2>is controversial both due to environmental reasons but also to

0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:55.279
<v Speaker 2>religious objections. And you also see proposals to rebuild the

0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.520
<v Speaker 2>bridge quote unquote, and this would be a project that

0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:01.799
<v Speaker 2>would have tremendous religion just significance, as well as of

0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:05.040
<v Speaker 2>course just being like a major avenue of transportation between nations.

0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:07.799
<v Speaker 2>By the way, we won't really have we don't have

0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:09.319
<v Speaker 2>time to go into this one. But I also wanted

0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:12.840
<v Speaker 2>to acknowledge that there is a mythical continent named Kumari

0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 2>condom linked in some traditions to ideas like Limuria that

0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:21.800
<v Speaker 2>have been It would have been situated in the Indian Ocean.

0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:26.719
<v Speaker 2>It would have allegedly hosted an ancient Tamil civilization, and

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I think it's generally described as a Tamilized take on

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:33.840
<v Speaker 2>the concept of Limuria. So, you know, a fairly recent

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.960
<v Speaker 2>idea in the Grand scheme of things. But then in

0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the twentieth century the idea ends up being taken up

0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:44.560
<v Speaker 2>by Tamil revivalists, and so it has remained since that

0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:48.200
<v Speaker 2>point a culturally charged idea as well, which kind of

0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 2>takes us back to a lot of what we were

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:54.000
<v Speaker 2>talking about just in general, about the idea of sunken lands,

0:41:54.440 --> 0:42:00.800
<v Speaker 2>whether real or mythological, even fictional, and how the classifications

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:04.640
<v Speaker 2>may shift over time, and how they can become important,

0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.400
<v Speaker 2>they can become vitally important, they can be things that

0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:09.359
<v Speaker 2>are sought after not only as a way to sort

0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:12.839
<v Speaker 2>of understand mysteries about the natural world, such as how

0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:15.560
<v Speaker 2>similar species can be found on two sides of a

0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:19.840
<v Speaker 2>vast ocean, but also in trying to make connections that

0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 2>aid in the conceptualization of one's worldview, that sort of thing.

0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:26.680
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think maybe that spells the end of our

0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:29.959
<v Speaker 3>exploration of sunken lands. But this has been a really

0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:31.960
<v Speaker 3>interesting journey to go on with you, Rob.

0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this has been This has been a lot of fun.

0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:36.399
<v Speaker 2>I learned a lot and I would love to learn

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:38.239
<v Speaker 2>some more from listeners out there if you have some

0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:42.879
<v Speaker 2>additional examples of anything we've discussed in the categories we've

0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:46.440
<v Speaker 2>discussed in these episodes. If you have some firsthand knowledge

0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:49.120
<v Speaker 2>or observations you'd like to share about the various places

0:42:49.160 --> 0:42:51.560
<v Speaker 2>we've discussed, all of that is fair game and we

0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:54.000
<v Speaker 2>would love to hear from you. Just a reminder that

0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow your Mind is primarily a science podcast,

0:42:56.680 --> 0:42:59.759
<v Speaker 2>with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we

0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:02.359
<v Speaker 2>do mail. On Wednesdays there tends to be a short

0:43:02.360 --> 0:43:05.960
<v Speaker 2>form artifactor monster Fact episode, and on Fridays we set

0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird

0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:11.440
<v Speaker 2>film on Weird House Cinema. I should point out I

0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.480
<v Speaker 2>do not think we've done an Atlantis movie on Weird House.

0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 2>I know we've had some flooding occur in some of

0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 2>the shows we've watched, but I don't recall Atlantis popping up.

0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:22.839
<v Speaker 2>I could be wrong. There's a submerged city or two.

0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:24.920
<v Speaker 2>I think a few submerged lands.

0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:27.800
<v Speaker 3>I watched a movie a few years back that's about

0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:31.040
<v Speaker 3>just like there's like a hurricane and a flood, and

0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:33.720
<v Speaker 3>it's just about a bunch of gators getting in somebody's house.

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I forget what it was called. It was pretty funny,

0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:39.120
<v Speaker 2>like they're coming up the stairs, that sort of thing

0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 2>swimming up the stairs, you know.

0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:44.280
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I'm trying to look it up. It's not Gator

0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 3>from nineteen seventy six, so that has Burt Reynolds in it,

0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:49.279
<v Speaker 3>and now I kind of kind of need to see it.

0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:52.799
<v Speaker 3>Oh it might it might not be about alligators, might

0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:54.120
<v Speaker 3>be about a guy called Gator.

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:54.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, this is this is also a fair

0:43:58.239 --> 0:44:00.440
<v Speaker 2>game as well for anyone who wants to and if

0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 2>you have suggestions for Atlantis based movies, sunken world movies

0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:07.560
<v Speaker 2>that we can discuss in Weird House Cinema, well we'd

0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:08.680
<v Speaker 2>love to get those as well.

0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I found what it was. It's called crawl. It

0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.160
<v Speaker 3>starts in a crawl space and then the house is

0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:15.760
<v Speaker 3>full of gators as it floods.

0:44:15.800 --> 0:44:18.320
<v Speaker 2>That's what it is, all right, that sounds great.

0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:23.480
<v Speaker 3>It's great. Okay, anyway, huge, thanks as always to our

0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:26.799
<v Speaker 3>excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like to

0:44:26.800 --> 0:44:29.120
<v Speaker 3>get in touch with us with feedback on this episode

0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:31.440
<v Speaker 3>or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,

0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:33.680
<v Speaker 3>or just to say hello, you can email us at

0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:43.560
<v Speaker 3>contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:49.480
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0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:52.360
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0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Passed with the pattor