1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and we are back with 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 3: the fourth and final part in our series called the 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 3: Sunken Lands, about places on Earth that relatively recently used 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 3: to be dry land but are now covered by water. 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: Now. 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 3: In previous parts of the series we talked about, of course, 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 3: legendary lands of this sort Atlantis and other fictional or 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 3: mythical sunken civilizations. And sorry to be a bummer to 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 3: the many Atlantis hunters out there, but yes, it does 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 3: seem like the experts on the original sources that this 14 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 3: story comes from, namely a couple of dialogues of Plato, 15 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 3: think that it probably is a fictional invention and not 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 3: a reference to a real place that existed. But that 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that there are not lands that have been 18 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 3: within the history of the human species submerged by water. 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 3: In fact, we know of some examples of places that 20 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 3: were both inhabited by humans and sunk under the water, 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 3: not really anything like was described in the Atlantis story, 22 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: but there are examples of the sunken land masses of 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 3: Beringia and dogger Land, which during and briefly after the 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 3: Last Ice Age formed land bridges between North America and 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: Asia and Great Britain and continental Europe perspectively. We also 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,199 Speaker 3: talked about vanished islands in the Pacific. Some of these 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 3: supposedly vanished islands are probably a result of errors in 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 3: their original reporting, but others are places that probably actually 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: did vanish or sink beneath the water due to cataclysmic 30 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: seismic activity. We also talked about atolls, how they're formed, 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 3: and where their central islands went. There was a hypothesis 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: that Darwin had about this going all the way back 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 3: to his voyage on the Beagle. There are new ideas 34 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: related to karsification and the dissolution of carbonate rock or 35 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: limestone when it's exposed over the surface of the sea, 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: dissolution by rain water, and then also finally, in the 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 3: last episode, we talked about places that have been flooded 38 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 3: by damming, the damming of freshwater resources, damming rivers and 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: streams to end up submerging areas that used to be 40 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 3: exposed land now under lakes. 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: Now A quick note on just the idea of sunken 42 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: islands and sunken lands. We had a listener ask about 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: this and discord. So I want to just briefly point 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: out that, especially in our discussion of atolls in the 45 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: last episode, the terms sunk in or to sink may 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: ultimately be too simplistic for these discussions because they're all 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: very based on the human perspective of what's going on. 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: And in any case, we're talking about situations that may 49 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: entail both rising and lowering sea levels, as well as 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: land that is pushed up and or created by volcanic, organic, 51 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: or seismic forces, and land that lowers sometimes beneath water 52 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: level due to erosion, seismic forces, etc. So just in 53 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: all cases, just keep in mind that, yeah, sunk in 54 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: sinking maybe doesn't fully capture the picture of what's going on. 55 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: Well. Actually, as luck would have it, I do want 56 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 3: to get to one example of actual sinking of lands 57 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 3: in just a bit here. So in the background of 58 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 3: discussing these historical cases of landscapes covered by rising seas, 59 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: there is the knowledge that most of us have now 60 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: that relatively rapid increases in sea level are happening right 61 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: now and will continue in the coming decades due to 62 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: climate change, due to the warming of the seas the 63 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: melting of glaciers. Sea level changes have happened on Earth before, 64 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: but one thing that's different now is how much of 65 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: the physical infrastructure and culture of modern human civilization was 66 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: designed on the assumption of current sea levels staying where 67 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: they are. Whole cities, whole countries even are threatened by 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 3: rising waters because they have been built without those rising 69 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 3: waters in mind. 70 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the very places we've discussed, at least 71 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: in passing in these episodes, like the Maldives, are greatly 72 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: threatened by these rising sea waters. 73 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, But of course this applies to coastal settlements 74 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: all over the world, on every continent on Earth, though 75 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 3: though in different ways. Not every coastal settlement will be 76 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 3: affected the same, and I want to get to some 77 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: of that variance in just a bit here. But as 78 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 3: a baseline, I thought we should look at how much 79 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: are sea levels expected to rise in the next century 80 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: or so. That depends on a number of variables, but 81 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 3: I was looking at the most recent ipc SA report, 82 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 3: which had put together a series of estimates. First of all, 83 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 3: they look at the question of what is happening to 84 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 3: global mean sea level right now, what has already happened 85 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: in the traceable recent past, whatever happens in the future. 86 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 3: One thing we know for certain is that the sea 87 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: level is already rising and has already risen, and the 88 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 3: rate at which it rises will very likely accelerate in 89 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: the future. Based on our best measurements averaged over different 90 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: time periods, we can see that sea levels have risen 91 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 3: over over the past century, and the basically the more 92 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: recent the chunk of time you look at, is the 93 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: faster they're rising. So the IPCC report points out that 94 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: sea levels rose about one point four millimeters per year 95 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: if you look at the time period nineteen oh one 96 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 3: to nineteen ninety If you shift more recently and look 97 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: at nineteen seventy to twenty fifteen, it's two point one 98 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: millimeters per year. If you just look at nineteen ninety 99 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 3: three to twenty fifteen, it's three point two millimeters per year. 100 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: If you just look at two thousand and six to 101 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, it's three point six millimeters per year. So 102 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: the later the period of the last century you look at, 103 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: the more it is rising per year. Now you might 104 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: reasonably wonder how do you actually measure sea level down 105 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: to the millimeter? Like the top of the water is 106 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 3: always moving, so that's a reasonable question. What methods do 107 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 3: you have to know that the average level of the 108 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: sea is rising. There are a couple of major metrics 109 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 3: here cited, and I didn't fully know how these worked beforehand, 110 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 3: so I thought this was interesting. One method used is 111 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 3: tide gauges. These systems have been used in some form 112 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 3: to record sea levels for hundreds of years, or at 113 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: least going back I think to the early eighteen hundreds, 114 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 3: though now they've changed form to incorporate different types of 115 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: sensors and computers and other modern components, but they still 116 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 3: have some things in common. So the old method here 117 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: was that they would use a device called a stilling well, 118 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: and this was basically a pipe about a foot wide 119 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: that would be plunged down into the water from a 120 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 3: place called a tide station, essentially a house built out 121 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 3: on a dock, and this pipe would still the water 122 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: around a floating device. The float would be suspended down 123 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 3: into the well by a wire, and then that wire 124 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: would be attached at the other end to a recording device, 125 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 3: which might be something like a pin that would mark 126 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: the water level automatically on a paper strip. So the 127 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 3: float floats on the top of the water. As the 128 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: water rises, the pin moves and marks that level on 129 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 3: the paper strip. As the water goes down, the pin 130 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 3: moves again, and then these marks were analyzed and averaged 131 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: together to form a picture of the tidal variance and 132 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: the average sea level over time. This method changed so 133 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: that the data could be fed directly into computers and 134 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: these tide stations also they had measuring staffs as well. 135 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: You've probably seen things like this somewhere around the coast before, 136 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: where it's just like a stick poking out of the water. 137 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: It's basically a ruler, you know, It's got height markings 138 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 3: on them, and then the operators could visually observe the 139 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: staff and compare that to the mechanical readings from the 140 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: float device. Now, tide gauges still exist and they still 141 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: make readings, but they've got new system new types of 142 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: sensors today to get their readings from. Modern tide gauges 143 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: tend to use acoustic sounding tubes instead of a float 144 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,679 Speaker 3: and distilling well, so the acoustic sounding tube will admit 145 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 3: will emit a sound wave from a fixed height and 146 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: then wait for it to bounce off of the water's 147 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 3: surface and come back. And the time to return of 148 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: the signal allows you to calculate the height of the 149 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: water across the tidal variants. So you can put in 150 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: place these tide gauges in coastal environments all around the 151 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: world and average them out to try to get some 152 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 3: information about what the global sea levels are doing all 153 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: around the world. And if you look at that information, 154 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 3: it shows yes, indeed the sea levels have been rising. 155 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: They've been rising over the last century along the lines 156 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 3: of the measurements I mentioned a minute ago. But if 157 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: you're able, you'd also want to compare that data to 158 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: other sources of information to make sure you're getting the 159 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: most accurate possible average. So there is another method is used, 160 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,239 Speaker 3: and that is altimetry. This is the use of satellite 161 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 3: based tools called radar altimeters to measure the height of 162 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 3: the sea. Basically, you can know the altitude of a 163 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: satellite with a high degree of precision. You can track 164 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 3: that with instruments like laser range rangefinders, like you bounce 165 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 3: a laser off the satellite, so you can tell pretty 166 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: much exactly how high it is. And then with that 167 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 3: information in mind, you can use a satellite to send 168 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 3: out a microwave pulse toward the Earth. That pulse bounces 169 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: off of the surface of the ocean and then bounces 170 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 3: back to the satellite and hits a return sensor, and 171 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 3: then the satellite measures the time of the round trip 172 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 3: between the emitter and the surface of the ocean to 173 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 3: get a very precise measurement of the distance between the 174 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 3: satellite and the water, which, again in combination with the 175 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: precisely known altitude of the satellite, can be used to 176 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 3: measure the level of the sea. And of course radar 177 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 3: altimetry can be used to measure average sea level changes 178 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: over time and get global averages and stuff, but it 179 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: can be also used I thought this was interesting to 180 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 3: measure variations in the height of the water around the 181 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: world at the same time. So a kind of crazy 182 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: thing about the ocean is that it is not at 183 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 3: the same height everywhere on Earth all the time. That 184 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 3: seems counterintuitive because you think of water and a container 185 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: like a bowl or something eventually finding you know, finding 186 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 3: its own level. It kind of levels out. But across 187 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 3: the world's oceans there are peaks and valleys that arise 188 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: in certain places at certain times, and so one example 189 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 3: we're all familiar with is the tide. You know, the 190 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: tide is caused mainly by gravity, by the gravitational influence 191 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: of the moon, but also the Sun. But there are 192 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 3: other factors that can cause local and sometimes temporary high 193 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 3: and low altitudes of seawater as well. I was reading 194 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: a report from NASA Earth Observatory about this and it 195 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: mentioned friction caused by wind on the surface of the water, 196 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: So like wind sort of dragging the water around and 197 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 3: piling it up in certain places. I guess that's a 198 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 3: crude way of describing it, but that is sort of 199 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 3: what happens. There are also Coriolis effects and ocean currents, 200 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 3: and there are also effects of variations in atmospheric pressure, 201 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: so you know, the atmosphere pushing the surface of the 202 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 3: water down in regions where the pressure is high and 203 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: so forth. And we can measure these altitude variations across 204 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: the ocean with the help of satellite based radar altimetry. 205 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 3: As just one example of the variance in the height 206 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 3: of the oceans around the world. According to NASA, the 207 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 3: sea level in the Pacific Ocean is generally higher than 208 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 3: the Atlantic Ocean, roughly twenty centimeters or about eight inches higher. 209 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 3: How is that possible, Well, the volume of seawater is 210 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 3: not static. Changes in the temperature and salinity of seawater 211 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: affect its density, so warmer water generally is less dense, 212 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 3: it takes up more space per unit of mass. The 213 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 3: Pacific is on average warmer, so its volume is greater, 214 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 3: and thus Pacific sea levels are higher, and other factors 215 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 3: contribute like this as well. This kind of variation is 216 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 3: actually acknowledged in the IPCC report where they say, quote 217 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 3: sea level rise is not globally uniform and varies regionally. 218 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: Thermal expansion, ocean dynamics, and land ice loss contributions will 219 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 3: generate regional departures of about plus or minus thirty percent 220 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 3: around the global means sea level rise, and those regional 221 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 3: variations in changes in sea level I want to come 222 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: back to that in a minute. 223 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: Now. 224 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 3: Of course, we all know the main cause of the 225 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 3: current warming that is driving sea level rise is, of 226 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: course what the IPCC report calls anthropogenic forcing. This means 227 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 3: results of human activity, primarily the changing of the composition 228 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 3: of the atmosphere it to trap more heat This is 229 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 3: the famous greenhouse effect. Putting more things like carbon methane 230 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: into the atmosphere increases the heat trapping potency of the atmosphere. 231 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: It traps more heat the earth worms. So we know 232 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 3: sea levels have been rising and they will continue to rise, 233 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: but how much and how fast they rise is highly 234 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 3: variable from our current point of view. So there are 235 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 3: some estimates based on current data. According to the IPCC 236 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: predictions relative to the mean sea level in the period 237 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 3: from nineteen eighty six to two thousand and five, they 238 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: predict that the global mean sea level will rise probably 239 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 3: somewhere between zero point four to three meters or about 240 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 3: one point four feet to zero point eight four meters, 241 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: which is about two point eight feet, by the year 242 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: twenty one hundred, and then due to a cascade of factors, 243 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 3: sea levels will continued to rise for centuries after that, 244 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 3: and we'll probably stay higher for thousands of hyears. Now, 245 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 3: I wouldn't hang on those exact numbers too much because 246 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: those are estimates. There are also averages of estimates, and 247 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: I've seen other reports with different estimates, especially at the 248 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: high end of like how bad could it possibly get 249 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: if we just keep increasing more and more greenhouse gas emissions. 250 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: But the important thing to note is that the high 251 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: and low end projections here are dependent on the variable 252 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 3: of human activity. So if we continue increasing the concentration 253 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 3: of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, we're somewhat closer to 254 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: the top end of that range, and the low end 255 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: is feasible if we drastically reduce greenhouse gas output and 256 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: factor in some kind of negative emissions as well, such 257 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 3: as massive natural or artificial carbon sequestration, and natural carbon 258 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 3: sequestration would be trapping carbon in things like plants, forests. 259 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so as is. I've heard a lot of experts 260 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 2: say it's not that there isn't room for optimism in 261 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: all of this, but the optimism does not come without action, Right, 262 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: there are definite steps that need to be taken. We 263 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: can't just be like, ah, it might be, it might 264 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: be okay, maybe it's just gonna be the lower We'll 265 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: just we'll roll the dice and see, like that's not 266 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: how it's going to work out. 267 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. The lower end of the prediction 268 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: range there is based on an assumption of action. If 269 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: humanity does something to massively reduce the contribution to global 270 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 3: warming through greenhouse gases, So in that case, yes, we 271 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 3: could limit it to the lower levels of sea level rise. 272 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: But to be clear, some amount of sea level rise 273 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 3: at this point has already happened and is basically locked in. 274 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 3: The question is how much worse will it get? And 275 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: that outcome is clearly dependent to a large extent on 276 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 3: what we do. But in most plausible scenarios we can 277 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 3: expect somewhere between something like one and three feet of 278 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: global sea level rise by the end of this century. 279 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 3: Now I mentioned there are other estimates I've come across. 280 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: Some of these are specifically focused on like certain countries 281 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: or regions, or might might be drawing on some emphasizing 282 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: different data sources or something. But another estimate I came 283 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: across was a twenty twenty two joint report by NASA, 284 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 3: the NOAA, and several other federal agencies of the US 285 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: government called Global and Regional Sea Level Rise Scenarios for 286 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: the United States. This was an update to a previous 287 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: report from twenty seventeen, and this report quote concludes that 288 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: sea level along US coast lines will rise ten to 289 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: twelve inches or twenty five to thirty centimeters on average 290 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 3: above today's levels by twenty fifty, so that's predicting roughly 291 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: a foot of increase by the middle of the century. 292 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: Also on the more dire end, this one was predicting 293 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 3: much higher levels of sea level rise at the basically 294 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 3: at the letter rip scenario. It's just like do nothing 295 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: scenario by the end of this century. If you want 296 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 3: to experiment with the findings of this report, it actually 297 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 3: has an online mapping tool you can look up you 298 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 3: and mess around with yourself, called the Interagency Sea Level 299 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 3: Rise Scenario Tool. You can google that and mess with 300 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: it yourself if you want. Now, there are a couple 301 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: of major contributors to the actual physical causes of sea 302 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 3: level rise due to a warming climate. One of them 303 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: is melting ice, melting glaciers and ice sheets. We've already 304 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 3: talked about the role of melting ice in the sea 305 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: level increases at the end of the Pleistocene, which were 306 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: responsible for inundating Doggerland and Beringia, But there's still a 307 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: lot of ice on Earth left to melt. Another important 308 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: cause of sea level rise is the thermal expansion of water. 309 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: Remember what I was talking about a minute ago, with 310 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 3: the difference in the height of the Pacific Ocean versus 311 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 3: the Atlantic Ocean. One factor there being that the Pacific 312 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 3: Ocean waters on average are warmer. This stacks on top 313 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 3: of the melting, but as water heats up, it becomes 314 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 3: less dense and takes up more space. Warmer water takes 315 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 3: up more space per unit of mass, so warmer oceans 316 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: will be taller. And the thermal expansion of water plays 317 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: a role already in a number of different phenomena that 318 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: happened within the ocean, for example in the in the 319 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 3: creation of ocean currents and in stratification of water levels 320 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 3: within the ocean. Like warmer water floats on top of 321 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 3: colder water, but anyway, as the Earth warms, the water 322 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 3: thermally expands also, so that contributes to the sea level 323 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 3: being higher. Now, what does this actually mean for the 324 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: everyday life of people living in low lying coastal areas 325 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 3: of planet Earth. I think one thing people sometimes like, 326 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 3: if you haven't read much about this, you might have 327 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: trouble imagining the form exactly this will take. Like you're 328 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: just imagining the sea rising in a kind of static way, 329 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 3: Like you know, it's either dry land or it's underwater. 330 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 3: What's in between? There actually is something in between, which 331 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 3: is frequent flooding. The way many people will probably experience 332 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 3: sea level rise at first is an increase in the 333 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 3: frequency and destructiveness of extreme weather events that are dependent 334 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: on sea level for the amount of damage they cause. 335 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: So a person who lives in a low lying coastal 336 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 3: city will start dealing with storm related floods on a 337 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: more and more frequent basis. What used to be a 338 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 3: once in a century flood will become a regular occurrence, 339 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 3: until at some point the flooding becomes so common that 340 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 3: people may start to simply consider a place uninhabitable. And 341 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 3: this happens before that place is more or less permanently underwater, 342 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 3: But that eventually happens too. Of course, this kind of 343 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 3: flooding and water encroachment, it comes with all kinds of 344 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 3: consequences of massive economic damage, destruction of property, destruction of life, livelihoods, 345 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 3: displacement of people, and all of the downstream effects of that. 346 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 3: But another factor people might not think about are the 347 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 3: effects of the ingress of salt water into places with 348 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 3: freshwater resources, like into river deltas and so forth. Of course, 349 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 3: this can have negative effects on habitats and wildlife, but 350 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: also on agriculture and groundwater and all that. You don't 351 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: want to salt your earth. But to come back to 352 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 3: an issue I raised earlier, an interesting factor contributing to 353 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 3: the coming inundation of coastal areas and especially coastal cities, 354 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 3: is that not only are sea levels definitely rising around 355 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 3: the globe and differently in different places, in some places 356 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 3: the ground is literally sinking. The lands are not just 357 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 3: metaphorically sunken because the water covers them, they are quite 358 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 3: literally directly sunken. The land is going down. So you 359 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 3: might have a coastal city that is experiencing more and 360 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 3: more frequent flooding during storm surges as the sea grows taller, 361 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: But also the ground level of the city is several 362 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: millimeters lower every year, which makes the relative sea level 363 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 3: rise even worse. Now, how is that possible? Well, there 364 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: are multiple causes, but I was reading about this in 365 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 3: a major One of the causes seems to be the 366 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 3: extraction of ground water from underlying aquifers. Especially you're extracting 367 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 3: it faster than those aquifers are replenished, and as the 368 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: water is extracted, it creates these voids underground. These voids 369 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 3: grow the soil gets compressed, especially if you're putting a 370 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: bunch of heavy stuff on the soil, such as a 371 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: city like building on top of it, and then that 372 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: compressing of the ground and the compressing into the voids 373 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 3: below essentially means the city literally starts to sink. And 374 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 3: this is happening to cities all around the world. I 375 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 3: was reading a really interesting article that addresses this issue. 376 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: It's in Wired by Matt Simon called sea level rise 377 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 3: be catastrophic and unequal. So this article is emphasizing again 378 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 3: that the global means sea level rise estimates are averages. 379 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: In specific places, the problem could be not as bad 380 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 3: or much much worse. Simon writes, quote Galveston, Texas, where 381 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: the land is slumping, could see almost two feet of 382 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 3: rise by the year twenty fifty. Meanwhile, Anchorage, Alaska could 383 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: see eight inches of sea level drop thanks to the 384 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 3: fact that its land is actually rising following the departure 385 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 3: of long gone glaciers. So why is Galveston, Texas sinking 386 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 3: relative to the sea level, he says, Mainly, there are 387 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 3: two causes here, and they're both related to the extraction 388 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 3: of liquids from underground reservoirs. One is the extraction of 389 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 3: water and the other is oil extraction of oil. And 390 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 3: this is true in many places as a result of 391 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 3: the combination of global sea level rise and land subsidence. 392 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 3: Some of the areas of the world that are going 393 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 3: to be the hardest hit by the greatest relative local 394 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 3: sea level rise are on the Gulf Coast of the 395 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 3: United States, the Gulf Coast, because they're suffering both of 396 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 3: these at the same time. The land is going down 397 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: and the sea is coming up. Simon in this article 398 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: quotes a guy named Bob Stokes who is president of 399 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 3: the conservation nonprofit called the Galveston Bay Foundation, and he 400 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 3: tells a story that I thought was wild. So this 401 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 3: is Stokes talking in the article. He says, quote, the 402 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 3: numbers I'm going to give you are are going to 403 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 3: be hard to believe. But there is an area in 404 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 3: Baytown where there is a big Exxon mobile industrial plant 405 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 3: that sank about eleven feet in a period of fifty 406 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 3: or sixty years because they were unsustainably pulling water out 407 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 3: of there. There was a nice and upper middle class 408 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 3: subdivision where all the Exxon executives lived that ultimately had 409 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 3: to be condemned because water was lapping up the foundations 410 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 3: of these houses, So there water and oil being extracted 411 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 3: from below. The land is sinking and the sea is 412 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 3: coming up. Meanwhile, with the example of Anchorage, Alaska, this 413 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 3: is typical of many areas on the southern coast of 414 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 3: Alaska where the ground is rising due to glacial retreat. 415 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 3: This is called glacial isostatic adjustment, and Simon uses the 416 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: analogy of when you get up off of a memory 417 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 3: foam mattress and that mattress gradually fills in the dent 418 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 3: you left with your body. That's kind of what the 419 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: land does when a glacier retreats. When a glacier melts away, 420 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 3: it sort of bounces back up. So areas where the 421 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: land is rising relative to the sea are going to 422 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: be on average hit less by global mean sea level increases, 423 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: and areas where the land is literally sinking, such as 424 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 3: in many cities on the Gulf Coast, they're going to 425 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 3: be hit harder than average. And there are a lot 426 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 3: of sinking cities, not just on the Gulf Coast, but 427 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 3: according to the map included all along the US East coast. Now, 428 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 3: this article goes on to talk about other factors contributing 429 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 3: to the regional variation in the effects of sea level 430 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 3: rise as well, such as local characteristics of water. You know, 431 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 3: warmer waters, as we said earlier, usually mean higher sea levels, 432 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 3: but also more storm surge and things like that. But 433 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 3: important thing to remember at the end of this projections 434 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: are variable. At this point, some amount of sea level 435 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: rise is locked in, but humanity has power over how 436 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: much worse the problem gets, and the recipe for minimizing 437 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 3: damage to world civilization is reducing greenhouse gases in the 438 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 3: atmosphere as much as possible, stop adding them, and to 439 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 3: the extent possible, take them out. 440 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, the natural environment is maguable, as we've discussed, 441 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: and humanity has tremendous power and tremendous will. We see 442 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: that in the degree to which we have and are 443 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: changing things. But that power and will can also be 444 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 2: applied to changing the ways that we are interacting with 445 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 2: the natural world for the better. But again, it does 446 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: require action. It doesn't require just setting back and hoping 447 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 2: that it will be better or pretending that the problem 448 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 2: does not exist. 449 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 3: Correct. 450 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: All right, So this is the fourth part of our series, 451 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: and we could honestly easily keep going, but we can't 452 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 2: because they've got some Christmas stuff to do next week. 453 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 2: So in this last section, I'd like to refer to 454 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 2: the ancient Hindu Hindu epic the Ramayana, which I do 455 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: want to add a note. I've brought this up in 456 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: the show, but I've brought the topic up on the 457 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 2: show before, but I don't know that I've been using 458 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: the proper pronunciation. I may have said it wrong in 459 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: the past, in which case my apologies. But the Ramayana, 460 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 2: which chronicles the life of King Rama or Ram, an 461 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 2: incarnation of Vishnu. If if you're not familiar with the story, 462 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 2: there are lots of ins and outs. It's essentially the 463 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: story of this of this mythical king, this divine king's life. 464 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: But there's perhaps the most famous plot line in there 465 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 2: is that his wife Sita is kidnapped by the ten 466 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 2: headed demon King of Ravana, who takes her away to 467 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: the land of Lanka, provoking a great war to reclaim her. So, 468 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: of course Rama has to assemble the troops. He has 469 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 2: to gather his forces, and this includes various figures and factions, 470 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: including a people known as the Vanara. In short, the 471 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 2: Vanara are the monkeys if you've seen illustrations of the 472 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: Ramayana before, you've you know, some of the related traditions. 473 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 2: You've you've probably seen images of these various monkey troops 474 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 2: aiding Rama. And of course you may be familiar with Hahneman, 475 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: the most famous of the Vannara. This is, you know, 476 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 2: the tireless friend to Rama and his you know, his 477 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 2: key champion and a very powerful entity that is, I 478 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: believe the son of a wind deity in some traditions. So, 479 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: but I was looking in the into the venera a 480 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 2: bit more. And according to the author Nanditha Krishna in 481 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: the book Sacred Animals of India, which I've referred to 482 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 2: in the past, the Sanskrit word for primate is actually 483 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 2: copy but the word used in the Ramayana Venara essentially 484 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: translates to people of the forest, with Vana being forest 485 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 2: and Nara being men. Interesting, yeah, the author writes that 486 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 2: this term probably never actually meant monkey. In fact, in Jainism, 487 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,479 Speaker 2: the Venara are described as a forest dwelling tribe of people, 488 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 2: and elsewhere in the Hindu epic the Mahabarata, they are 489 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: also discussed as such, contributing to this kind of mythic 490 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: transformation from perhaps, you know, some sort of forest dwelling people, 491 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: too intelligent humanoid primates. It might have been that these people, 492 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 2: to whatever extent you know, they were real. They may 493 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 2: have been worshippers of a primate themed deity, or they 494 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: might have used some sort of primate themed totem of 495 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: some sort, or some sort of totem system, But the 496 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 2: author stresses that it could also be neither of these. 497 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 2: We just don't know, And so the Venar include several 498 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: important individuals that pop up in the epic. There's Mighty Haneman, 499 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: as we already noted, most famous of them all. There's 500 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: King Sogriva, and there's also a pair of twins known 501 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: as Nala and Nila. And the twins ate is especially 502 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: important because Rama must deliver his army across the waters 503 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: to the island fortress of Lanka in order to reclaim 504 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: his bride, and so, as the epic describes, they have 505 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: to create a bridge, and this is where Nala and 506 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: sometimes Nila depending on the version, becomes essential. This is 507 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 2: a quote from the Ramayana. In translation of course, quote 508 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: a bridge was thrown by Nala or the narrow sea 509 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: from shore to shore. They crossed to Lanka's Golden town, 510 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: where Rama's hands smote Ravi down. 511 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 3: A bridge was thrown. Wow, how do you throw a bridge? 512 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: Well, this is where this sort of things get get interesting, 513 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 2: dissecting all of this, because the accounts apparently vary. In 514 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: some cases, the resulting bridge that gets thrown or constructed 515 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: is in fact a great bridge that it's you know, 516 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: something built. It's constructed. It's perhaps made it would at 517 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: the base and then become stone further up. You know, 518 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: it is like a huge megalwork that connects one land 519 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 2: to the next so that the army can march over it. 520 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 2: Other times it's described more as I mean, it's still 521 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: something that's constructed, but with a lot more magic involved. 522 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 2: Like there are stories about the Varna using floating stones 523 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: to build this bridge, throwing the stones in the water, 524 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: and in some cases these are stones that kind of 525 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: float on their own already. But then there are other 526 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 2: accounts where like there's a certain amount of monkey trickiness. 527 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 2: It's involved, like they do something like I think the 528 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: account that I was reading, one of the accounts is 529 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 2: that they were like throwing holy items into the water, 530 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: and the gods said Okay, that's that nothing. The monkey's 531 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: throwing the water can sink. Everything has to float. We 532 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 2: can't have the stuff sinking to the bottom. And then 533 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: they starts throwing the stones in and they kind of 534 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 2: find a loophole to build the bridge. 535 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 3: Brilliant leve a loophole. 536 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, but at any rate, there's no like one way. 537 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: Apparently there are different accounts, different stories, but we end 538 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 2: up with the idea of a bridge one way or another. 539 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: This is Rama's bridge or the Rama sit to now, 540 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 2: especially since this has already come up in this series 541 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: we're doing, and I know some of you are thinking 542 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 2: about those floating pumice rocks and wondering if observations of 543 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: this phenomenon might have influenced the myth making or if 544 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 2: this has anything to do with it, And apparently this 545 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 2: has been discussed those the number of criticisms emerge concerning 546 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: like the lack of such stones in areas that are 547 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: discussed as possibly linking up with the area where this 548 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: great bridge could have been or it's supposed to have been. 549 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 2: More on that in a second. And then of course 550 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: you get into some other situations too, like it's one 551 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: thing for you could I guess you could say, like 552 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: the idea could be passed on and then could spill 553 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: over into some myth making. But could you actually build 554 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: a bridge using pumice stones? I think there's significantly less 555 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: evidence for that. 556 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, would they support your weight? I mean I would 557 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 3: think it'd be more like the you know, the ball pit. 558 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: You kind of fall in between them. 559 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think they're also just more convincing ideas 560 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 2: regarding all of this. So, of course, the big questions 561 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 2: here would be, Okay, first of all, did something even 562 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: remotely like the events of this Hindu epic ever take place? 563 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 2: And if so, where did it take place? Where would 564 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 2: this bridge have been, and what land masses would it 565 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: have been linking. So, versions of question one, to be clear, 566 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: turn up in all religions, and they're often asked with 567 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 2: different objectives in mind. Very broadly speaking, some researchers seek 568 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 2: to prove religious accounts correct by finding corroborating evidence in archaeology, history, 569 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: and geology, while others seek to employ religious text to 570 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 2: it to better understand human and geologic history. Again, very 571 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: broadly speaking, because you can wind up with a little 572 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: bit of column A and column B and vice versa. 573 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 2: And human motivations are ultimately complicated, but it also means 574 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 2: that these sorts of discussions can generate strong emotions as well. 575 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 2: So I would suppose we should stress something that we 576 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: often touch on, that mythology is not fiction, even if 577 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 2: it is not objective reality. Not to say that it 578 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 2: is necessarily completely removed from objective reality, but it's kind 579 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: of this third category between the two that can still 580 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: empower us on multiple levels and give life meaning without 581 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 2: being like one to one with the objective world. 582 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I've often spoken this opinion with reference to 583 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: things like the creation story told in Genesis or something that. 584 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 3: Are you sure that the people who first wrote this 585 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 3: story even necessarily meant it to be taken as a literal, 586 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 3: factual account. 587 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, it kind of comes back to 588 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: some of the things we're discussing just concerning some of 589 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: these ideas of different lost islands and so forth. It's like, 590 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 2: we always want to find that one reason, that one explanation, 591 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: and you know, oftentimes, especially when we're dealing with things 592 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 2: like this, that are concepts that exist not only in 593 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 2: one human imagination, but in multiple human imaginations spread out 594 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 2: across different communities and cultures over long stretches of time, 595 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: there's a lot of room for various influences to shape 596 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 2: the final form of the thing. So anyway, coming to 597 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: this idea of a bridge, where would you possibly look 598 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 2: for evidence of this? So a lot of it comes 599 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: down to the possible location of the island of Lanka. 600 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 2: And there's a great deal of scholarship on this question alone, 601 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 2: with the prime candidate seeming to be the island of 602 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: Sri Lanka. The Maldives, Sumatra, and even Madagascar have also 603 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 2: been discussed. But and of course conspiracy minded folks are 604 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 2: not above suggesting Atlantis. That it was Atlantis, but it was, Yeah, 605 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: it was not Atlantis. So for for our purposes here, 606 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 2: we're going to focus mostly on Sri Lanka, as that's 607 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 2: where there's some really interesting evidence to discuss, and that 608 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: seems to where to be where a lot of the 609 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 2: energy seems to be going. Sri Lanka is easily spotted 610 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 2: on any map, separated from the Indian Peninsula by the 611 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 2: Gulf of Manar and the Palk Strait. It has been 612 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 2: inhabited by humans since prehistoric times, and so it's you know, 613 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 2: it's been it's been presented and There's there's additional evidence 614 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 2: to support this idea as well that we don't have 615 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: time to get into. But a lot of people make 616 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 2: the case that Sri Lanka was Lanka, and so yeah, 617 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 2: how would you get an army, an ancient army, uh, 618 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 2: supernatural otherwise from point A to point B. Well, this 619 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 2: is of course where the bridge comes in. And of course, 620 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 2: in the context of a mythic story, you know, the 621 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 2: bridge doesn't have to be anything that corresponds with actual 622 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 2: geology or time specific technology. I mean, people can imagine 623 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 2: bridges spanning impossible distances, that sort of thing. I think 624 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 2: all that goes without saying, and there's plenty of things 625 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 2: that happen in the Hindu epics that are inherently supernatural. 626 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 2: But attempts to nail down a possible actual bridge to 627 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: Sri Lanka would constitute either a manufactured bridge and or 628 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 2: a naturally occurring bridge. It's the idea of at least 629 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 2: some level of naturally occurring bridge. This is where it 630 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 2: gets really interesting because there is a chain of limestone 631 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 2: shoals between Minar Island off the northwest coast of Sri 632 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 2: Lanka and Ramaswaram Island off the southeast coast of India, 633 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 2: interconnected with sandbanks. It all forms a thirty mile or 634 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: forty eight kilometer long quote unquote bridge and it is 635 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 2: shallow enough to pose a navigational hazard to ship. 636 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: Oh okay. So it's almost like if you know, if 637 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 3: the water levels were a little bit lower or something 638 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 3: were piled up here, you can imagine something like a 639 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 3: bridge emerging. 640 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And so this and this is something that 641 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:18,479 Speaker 2: has captivated the human imagination for a while and cause 642 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 2: people to, you know, logically, wonder could this be what 643 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 2: the epics are talking about? So this is also commonly 644 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 2: known as Adams Bridge. The name linked to an Islamic 645 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 2: tradition and I think sometimes a Christian tradition as well, 646 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 2: that holds that Adam's Peak on Sri Lanka is where Adam, 647 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 2: the first human and Abrahamic traditions fell to earth, and 648 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 2: the mountain in question here is also sacred in Hinduism. 649 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,479 Speaker 2: But anyway, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that 650 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 2: these shoals and sandbars constitute a former land bridge, Though 651 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 2: estimated dates vary, cartographical records suggests that it may have 652 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 2: been whole and even traversible until the year fourteen eighty 653 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 2: and the beginning in fourteen eighty you might have had 654 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: a series of storms that ended up washing sections of 655 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 2: it away, storm breaches that end up making taking away 656 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 2: this portion of it in another portion, until you're left 657 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 2: with something that is no longer traversible. 658 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 3: Ah. Well, so that is much more recent than any 659 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 3: of the than the land bridges we've been talking about 660 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 3: in the other episodes of like the or the so 661 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 3: called land bridges, the former areas of dogger Land and Boringia, 662 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 3: which are that are now underwater and have been for 663 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 3: many thousands of years. This is just a question of 664 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 3: a few centuries comparatively very recent, if true. 665 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, though of course there are all sorts of 666 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 2: questions that arise in this, like is it too recent, 667 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 2: is it something that would be something that might have 668 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 2: emerged and then resemble something from pre existing mythology, or 669 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 2: as indeed, as many people you know believe, is it 670 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 2: evidence of something that is described in the Hindu epics. 671 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 2: So it's fascinating to think about those things, and also 672 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 2: thinking about like reports of it being traversible from centuries past, 673 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 2: like to what extent can we trust those we've already 674 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: talked about whole islands that have been cataloged due to 675 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 2: various errors or sort of sing deciding to err on 676 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: the side of caution when identifying things that could be 677 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: a navigational hazard to ships and so forth. But at 678 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 2: any rate, there is evidence of something here, and there 679 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 2: are various theories about its natural formation. They ranged from 680 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 2: tectonic forces to coral sand trapping, water, current movements of sand, 681 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 2: and so forth. So there is this idea that it 682 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 2: could have been certainly a naturally occurring opportunity that could 683 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 2: have been augmented them by human beings to some degree, 684 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 2: which I don't think is all that outrageous, at least 685 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 2: if you consider like small scale efforts to shore up 686 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 2: or repair individual segments in a chain like this, and 687 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 2: then on top of that, I mean, ancient peoples were 688 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 2: certainly capable of larger scale engineering projects as well, though 689 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: based on the sources I was looking at, I don't 690 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 2: think there's any strong scientific evidence for the idea that 691 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: it was largely constructed or that it was constructed entirely. 692 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 2: But again, this is an area of controversy. So setting 693 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 2: aside how it came to be, we can be reasonably 694 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 2: sure that remnants that the remnants we see here do 695 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 2: constitute a one time land bridge that in its current 696 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 2: form is no longer traversible, likely due to changes in 697 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 2: sea level and storm activity some combination of the two. 698 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 2: And there have been proposals to dredge more of it 699 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,919 Speaker 2: out in order to improve navigation by boat. But this 700 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 2: is controversial both due to environmental reasons but also to 701 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 2: religious objections. And you also see proposals to rebuild the 702 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 2: bridge quote unquote, and this would be a project that 703 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 2: would have tremendous religion just significance, as well as of 704 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 2: course just being like a major avenue of transportation between nations. 705 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 2: By the way, we won't really have we don't have 706 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 2: time to go into this one. But I also wanted 707 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 2: to acknowledge that there is a mythical continent named Kumari 708 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 2: condom linked in some traditions to ideas like Limuria that 709 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 2: have been It would have been situated in the Indian Ocean. 710 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: It would have allegedly hosted an ancient Tamil civilization, and 711 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 2: I think it's generally described as a Tamilized take on 712 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 2: the concept of Limuria. So, you know, a fairly recent 713 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 2: idea in the Grand scheme of things. But then in 714 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 2: the twentieth century the idea ends up being taken up 715 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 2: by Tamil revivalists, and so it has remained since that 716 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 2: point a culturally charged idea as well, which kind of 717 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 2: takes us back to a lot of what we were 718 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 2: talking about just in general, about the idea of sunken lands, 719 00:41:54,440 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 2: whether real or mythological, even fictional, and how the classifications 720 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 2: may shift over time, and how they can become important, 721 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 2: they can become vitally important, they can be things that 722 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 2: are sought after not only as a way to sort 723 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 2: of understand mysteries about the natural world, such as how 724 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 2: similar species can be found on two sides of a 725 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 2: vast ocean, but also in trying to make connections that 726 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 2: aid in the conceptualization of one's worldview, that sort of thing. 727 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 3: Well, I think maybe that spells the end of our 728 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,959 Speaker 3: exploration of sunken lands. But this has been a really 729 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 3: interesting journey to go on with you, Rob. 730 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been This has been a lot of fun. 731 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 2: I learned a lot and I would love to learn 732 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 2: some more from listeners out there if you have some 733 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,879 Speaker 2: additional examples of anything we've discussed in the categories we've 734 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 2: discussed in these episodes. If you have some firsthand knowledge 735 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 2: or observations you'd like to share about the various places 736 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 2: we've discussed, all of that is fair game and we 737 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 2: would love to hear from you. Just a reminder that 738 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind is primarily a science podcast, 739 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 2: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we 740 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 2: do mail. On Wednesdays there tends to be a short 741 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 2: form artifactor monster Fact episode, and on Fridays we set 742 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 2: aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird 743 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 2: film on Weird House Cinema. I should point out I 744 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 2: do not think we've done an Atlantis movie on Weird House. 745 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 2: I know we've had some flooding occur in some of 746 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 2: the shows we've watched, but I don't recall Atlantis popping up. 747 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 2: I could be wrong. There's a submerged city or two. 748 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 2: I think a few submerged lands. 749 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 3: I watched a movie a few years back that's about 750 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 3: just like there's like a hurricane and a flood, and 751 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,720 Speaker 3: it's just about a bunch of gators getting in somebody's house. 752 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 2: I forget what it was called. It was pretty funny, 753 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 2: like they're coming up the stairs, that sort of thing 754 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 2: swimming up the stairs, you know. 755 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,280 Speaker 3: Oh, I'm trying to look it up. It's not Gator 756 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 3: from nineteen seventy six, so that has Burt Reynolds in it, 757 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 3: and now I kind of kind of need to see it. 758 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 3: Oh it might it might not be about alligators, might 759 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 3: be about a guy called Gator. 760 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. 761 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 2: All right, Well, this is this is also a fair 762 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 2: game as well for anyone who wants to and if 763 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 2: you have suggestions for Atlantis based movies, sunken world movies 764 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 2: that we can discuss in Weird House Cinema, well we'd 765 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 2: love to get those as well. 766 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 3: Oh, I found what it was. It's called crawl. It 767 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 3: starts in a crawl space and then the house is 768 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,760 Speaker 3: full of gators as it floods. 769 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 2: That's what it is, all right, that sounds great. 770 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 3: It's great. Okay, anyway, huge, thanks as always to our 771 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 3: excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like to 772 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 3: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode 773 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 3: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 774 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 3: or just to say hello, you can email us at 775 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 3: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 776 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 777 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 778 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows 779 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 2: Passed with the pattor