1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,

3
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 2: as always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it

4
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:40,040
Speaker 2: for our number one super producer, mister Max Williams. Huzzah,

5
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 2: there's mister Noel Brown. They often call me Ben in

6
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,559
Speaker 2: these parts. Guys, this is our holiday episode.

7
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 3: It's true. Would you guys believe that I was not

8
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 3: born anywhere near Christmas despite my name? I get that

9
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 3: all the time. Just not the case. I'm an August baby, Alio.

10
00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.

11
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 2: The thing that sticks out to me as a fellow

12
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 2: LEO and a fan of the human experiment, is that

13
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 2: we have a bone to pick with history. We have

14
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,880
Speaker 2: something that we think is a little bit ridiculous. We're

15
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 2: going to dive into it here first and foremost, we

16
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 2: hope you and your family are well. Whether or not

17
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 2: you celebrate Christmas, we have to tell you, even if

18
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: you're listening to this thousands or millions of years after

19
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,000
Speaker 2: the episode publishes, Christmas was slash is a pretty big deal.

20
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,199
Speaker 2: It is ultimately a birthday celebration.

21
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,679
Speaker 3: Sure, you guys have.

22
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,520
Speaker 2: Heard it right here in the United States, people often

23
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 2: say Jesus is the reason for the season.

24
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 3: They do say that. It's true. Lest you think we're

25
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 3: going to be a couple of old grinches trying to

26
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,360
Speaker 3: steal Christmas, that's not the case at all. Though. Jesus

27
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 3: has become a little less of the reason for the

28
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 3: season here in the United States anyway, in favor of

29
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 3: a bit more of a massive commercial, you know, gift

30
00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 3: giving blowout. But you know, things change, That's just how

31
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 3: it goes. Yeah.

32
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 2: What we see here in the US currently, as we

33
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,680
Speaker 2: record at the very end of twenty twenty four, is

34
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,800
Speaker 2: that Christmas has become an economic necessity for a lot

35
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,079
Speaker 2: of businesses. It turns out, by the way, this is

36
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 2: what we're doing. I love your point, Noel. We are

37
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 2: not denigrating any spiritual belief system. We are, in fact

38
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,239
Speaker 2: sticky up for this one guy, because it turns out

39
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:40,520
Speaker 2: that Christmas the most important birthday in Western discourse. It

40
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 2: happened about three hundred years after the fact. This is

41
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 2: the latest birthday party ever.

42
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,080
Speaker 3: Jesus needs all the help he can get. Ben, It's true.

43
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,239
Speaker 3: First off, heavens.

44
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,959
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh jeez, yeah, we're not the Logians. We're

45
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 2: not priests, pastors and moms or rabbis. Wait, let's check

46
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,679
Speaker 2: with Max. Max, do you have any theological qualifications?

47
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 3: Uh I, I do not know.

48
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,520
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, and we're all we're all on the

49
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 2: same we're all the same wavelength. Yeah, that's right, nol

50
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 2: uh Jesus Christ, that's right, haters, technically the world's most

51
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 2: famous Jew, So take that.

52
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 3: Nazis so likely you've heard tell of jc H. There

53
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 3: are a lot of stories about him, and you may

54
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 3: or may not be amazed to know that he was

55
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 3: what's that guy? There's a meme now is a super

56
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 3: chill guy. Yeah, yeah, very big lebowski.

57
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 2: Right, this guy, this one individual exhibited phenomenal dare say

58
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 2: divine abilities? Noel, we're talking about a guy who has

59
00:03:54,840 --> 00:04:00,160
Speaker 2: power over time, creation, angels, death, destiny, truth, and of

60
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 2: course churches.

61
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 3: True story.

62
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 2: One time, one unchill time, he cursed a fig tree.

63
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: That is a tale the Jedi will not share with you.

64
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 3: Well, well, maybe a more popular story of him being

65
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,160
Speaker 3: unchill was when he flipped the tables of the money

66
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 3: changers in the in the bizarre in the markets, you know,

67
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 3: because he was against the kind of greed and manipulation

68
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 3: that they represented. So you know, a pretty chill, unchill

69
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 3: action if you ask me.

70
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, acting with righteousness did not care for usurious people.

71
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 3: And whether or not you believe in Jesus's mystical or

72
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,320
Speaker 3: divine abilities, the fact remains that he was a dude

73
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,920
Speaker 3: who was believed in by many and absolutely accomplished some

74
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 3: pretty fantastic things even outside of the realm of the

75
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:47,040
Speaker 3: divine right.

76
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 2: M Yeah, the individual called Jesus today was, according to

77
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 2: the story, born in a town called Bethlehem, in a

78
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 2: manger basically a barn, a place whould put livestock. His

79
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,279
Speaker 2: parents were not the one percent, but the baby was

80
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 2: on the way. They couldn't find a better place for

81
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,919
Speaker 2: his mom, the famous Mary to give.

82
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 3: Birth right at the end. All that right, one of

83
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 3: the famous Mary's.

84
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 2: And so, as the story goes, a bunch of people

85
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 2: showed up right on time for this birth in Bethlehem.

86
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,600
Speaker 2: And get this, Instead of helping the family get better shelter,

87
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 2: everybody who showed up hung out in the barn, and

88
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 2: they gave the family a series of what we would

89
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 2: call dramatically expensive, often unhelpful gifts, like when when's the

90
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 2: last time he needed some mirr.

91
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,360
Speaker 3: What even is mr? I know it's like a fine

92
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,640
Speaker 3: oil or lotion or liniment. What is it? It's like

93
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 3: a spice? What is murr? Again? I think it's like

94
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:54,920
Speaker 3: a precious metal. It's a gum resin. Okay, so it's

95
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 3: like incense, right, it would smell good?

96
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's been you. It's medicinal. It's also

97
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 2: used for perfume. And as you said, incense.

98
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 3: Got it? Uh?

99
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 4: So.

100
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 3: Jesus was a Galilean from Nazareth. Uh And this is

101
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 3: a village near Cephoris, one of two major cities there

102
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:22,239
Speaker 3: in Galilee, the other being Tiberius. And he was born

103
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,800
Speaker 3: to essentially a the laborer, you know, a carpenter, a

104
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,080
Speaker 3: construction worker, the name of Joseph, and of course the

105
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 3: aforementioned famous Mary. Somewhere around six BCP and shortly before

106
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 3: the death of Herod the Great, who was a real

107
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,880
Speaker 3: pain in the keyst if I'm not mistaken, Ben.

108
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Noel, Let's be honest. History is written by the

109
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 2: victors first off, So every story you will read about

110
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,280
Speaker 2: Herod in the West shows him being a real beat

111
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,039
Speaker 2: me here Max, a real piece of h He.

112
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 3: Could change, he could change. Yeah, like back here. You know,

113
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,320
Speaker 3: he did sloppy steaks, but he could change.

114
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 4: Now.

115
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 3: I don't think he changed. He didn't change, and the

116
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 3: jump in here real quick.

117
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 5: I didn't write about it because I wasn't able to

118
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 5: find enough sources. But there are some rumors out there

119
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 5: that how Herod went was very fitting for our Ridiculous

120
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:18,480
Speaker 5: World death episode.

121
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned that, Max. Perhaps we

122
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:28,200
Speaker 2: will resurrect that idea in the future. No joke left

123
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 2: behind hashtag. So look, we could imagine Herod had his

124
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 2: own series of things going on, but for our purposes today,

125
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 2: he's kind of a bad guy.

126
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 3: He's kind of not cool.

127
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 2: If you go to the later writing of the disciples

128
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 2: of Jesus, who is not yet in his childhood called

129
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 2: the Christ, we see that Matthew and Luke are you know,

130
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 2: they're part of the wu tang of Christ when he

131
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 2: becomes known as the Messiah, and they are the ones

132
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 2: who tell the world yesterday and today that this carpenter,

133
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 2: this itinerant carpenter you mentioned, Noel Joseph is only legally

134
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: the father of Jesus. Instead, they argue Mary was a

135
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 2: physical virgin, meaning she had never had or encountered sexual intimacy,

136
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 2: and then boom, she was found to be with child

137
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 2: from the Holy.

138
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 3: Spirit, the virgin birth. It's a miracle in Bethlehem. And

139
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,520
Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken by all of these folks, the

140
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,839
Speaker 3: three Wise men and the like followed a shooting star,

141
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 3: and they heard tell of the coming of this Messiah,

142
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,440
Speaker 3: and they follow the star that led them directly to

143
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,959
Speaker 3: this cowshd. Pretty interesting stuff, not to mention that the

144
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 3: whole virgin birth thing. Of course, if anyone seen the

145
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 3: Last Temptation of Christ, for example by good old Martysecrsaza,

146
00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 3: you know there are other controversial takes on this the

147
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,720
Speaker 3: story so plenty of stuff to explore on your own

148
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 3: if you want to.

149
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and originally there was not a guy doing a

150
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 2: kick ass backbeat. There was not a little drummer boy

151
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 2: that comes later in the Great Game of Telephone.

152
00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:14,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's to me, like, I think a

153
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 3: bit of a clearly some of this is in the

154
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 3: realm of fiction. I think the Little drummer Boy was

155
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 3: almost like just a representation of the Christmas spirit. I do.

156
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 3: I do love it though.

157
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 2: I love the idea of a kid showing up and

158
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 2: just doing some drums.

159
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:30,319
Speaker 3: Rum pum, pump pump.

160
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 2: So by all accounts, our young individual Jesus was precocious.

161
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 2: We do not know a ton about this individual's childhood,

162
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 2: including can I get a spoiler sound cube his actual birthday?

163
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 2: Thank you Max. He appeared to learn things at a

164
00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 2: prodigious rate. He was a very quick kid, and and

165
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,240
Speaker 2: Judaism at this time usually only add one name. If

166
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 2: you need a greater specificity, you would add the father's

167
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 2: name or the place of the individual's origin. So for example,

168
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,840
Speaker 2: we would say Macs of Michigan, right, it would say

169
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 2: Noll of Augusta, something like that.

170
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 3: And that kind of nomenclature I guess goes back way

171
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 3: further than this story. I mean, it is an ancient holdover.

172
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,319
Speaker 3: Instead of having last names, even people were identified from

173
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 3: where they were born, yeah.

174
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, or their provenance. That's patrilineal origins. So in his

175
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:42,440
Speaker 2: time on Earth, in this moment in history, Jesus is

176
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:47,280
Speaker 2: called things like Jesus son of Joseph makes sense, Jesus

177
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 2: of Nazareth makes sense, or Jesus the Nazarene, which is,

178
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,320
Speaker 2: you know, Jesus the guy from Nazareth.

179
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

180
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,320
Speaker 3: He ultimately becomes the most famous Jesus. So eventually all

181
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 3: that stuff could probably just drop off like Madonna or

182
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,280
Speaker 3: Share absolutely and we could do an entire etymology spinoff

183
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,200
Speaker 3: episode on the nature of translation here and that great

184
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,760
Speaker 3: game of etymological and linguistic telephone that we kind of

185
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 3: just explored a good bit, and that two parter we

186
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,200
Speaker 3: did on the English alphabet. But for now we just

187
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,559
Speaker 3: need to know. At some point there was a brilliant

188
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 3: child of uncertain patrilineal origin for the time, and he

189
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 3: wanted to just take everything in he could like a sponge.

190
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 2: And with some help from our good friends at Britannica,

191
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,240
Speaker 2: we'll give you the following quote about the young Jesus

192
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 2: later called Christ. As a young adult, he went to

193
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,600
Speaker 2: be baptized by the prophet John the Baptist, and shortly

194
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 2: thereafter became an itinerant preacher and healer. This goes back

195
00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 2: to Mark one to two to twenty eight. Anyway, in

196
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 2: Britannica did not say anyway, I said anyway. That's editorializing,

197
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 2: So Britannica continues. In his mid thirties, Jesus had a

198
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 2: short public career, lasting perhaps less than one year, during

199
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,160
Speaker 2: which he attracted considerable attention. Noel, do you want to

200
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:21,720
Speaker 2: finish us out with this quote?

201
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 3: Pro I be honored. Britannica is one of my favorites.

202
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 3: And boo to ye who say they are not a

203
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 3: valid source. Y'all need to get a hobby. Sometime between

204
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,680
Speaker 3: twenty nine and thirty three CE, possibly thirty CE, he

205
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,720
Speaker 3: went to observe passover in Jerusalem, where his entrance, according

206
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 3: to the Gospels, was triumphant and confused with eschatological significance.

207
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:44,840
Speaker 3: Get your minds out of the gutter. That word doesn't

208
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 3: mean what you think it means. It's like it's almost

209
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 3: like ecclesiastical right, or like having like a religious imbued

210
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 3: with religious fervor kind of.

211
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 2: It's the branch of theology or philosophy that is associated

212
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 2: with the end of the world humanity.

213
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,320
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, relating to death, judgment, and the final destiny

214
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 3: of the soul. Okay, this is a new word for me.

215
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good one. You don't get to use

216
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,240
Speaker 2: it all the time, but it is a fun one.

217
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,599
Speaker 3: You do, you best use it with Gusto.

218
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 2: Bro, we should accuse people of being eschatological.

219
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 3: They're going to think we're calling them shitty. Oh that's scatology. Really,

220
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 3: it really sounds similar. I'm sorry.

221
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,440
Speaker 2: How different does on one sound me?

222
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 3: Word? What difference a day makes? It's ben we're still

223
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,319
Speaker 3: high off our alphabet. Serious.

224
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 2: So this, uh, this story, this early story will be

225
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,280
Speaker 2: familiar to any what are called people of the book,

226
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 2: practitioners inherents of Judaism, Islam or Christianity. As you know,

227
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,839
Speaker 2: and we hope we're not. The first way you learned this.

228
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 2: The man called Jesus was apprehended and he sat through

229
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,679
Speaker 2: a kangaroo court. No one, to be fair, no one

230
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 2: in the area had heard of kangaroos by this point.

231
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a great concept though that we explore a

232
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,800
Speaker 3: little bit on a listener mail of recent times over

233
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 3: on stuff that I want you to know. We had

234
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 3: a listener right, and about the origins of the concept

235
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,720
Speaker 3: of a kangaroo court, meaning a court where the outcome

236
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 3: is determined ahead of time. And it is all but

237
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 3: symbolic for the purposes of saying no, we did that,

238
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 3: we did the thing. We gave you a trial, But

239
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,800
Speaker 3: basically there is a predetermined outcome, and for Jesus that

240
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 3: was crucifixion. After like saw two levels of torture and brutalization.

241
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was super gross. It was undeserved. The guy

242
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 2: was innocent, and I love the point you're bringing up.

243
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 2: He was killed due to political machinations of the Romans

244
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 2: at the time. And this is why this death via crucifixion.

245
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 2: This is why Christians today will have a cross in homes,

246
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 2: on flags, on mission and perhaps in tattoos.

247
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 3: On the moons. Yeah, yeah, why not.

248
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 2: The disciples of Jesus now called Christ, they proliferated what

249
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 2: they saw as his teachings throughout the world. The problem

250
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 2: is that the disciples of Jesus Christ didn't always agree.

251
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 3: With one another. Yeah, they had.

252
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 2: Differences of opinion. They had one thing, they had one thing.

253
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:27,400
Speaker 3: They agreed on.

254
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 2: They said, our guy, Jesus Christ did not in fact

255
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 2: permanently die.

256
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 3: No, he was in fact resurrected on the third Day,

257
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 3: where he rolled aside the stone on the cave where

258
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 3: his body lay in state to the proclamations of he

259
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 3: has risen, you know, all of that good stuff. So

260
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 3: this is a really big deal for any followers of

261
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 3: Jesus after going through such a PTSD inducing situation, having

262
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,600
Speaker 3: to watch their guy JC just get his absolute beaten

263
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 3: out of him by that Cato nine tails. Do you

264
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 3: guys see the Mel Gibson movie. I never bothered. It

265
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 3: just seemed like torture porn.

266
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Passion of the Christ. I actually did you know?

267
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 2: I love a little bit of Discordianism back now, back when,

268
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 2: back when DVDs and Blu rays and physical media were

269
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 2: more of a thing. I printed up a series of

270
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 2: stickers that just said, is tonight the night? And I

271
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 2: stuck them on a bunch of Passion of the Christ DVDs.

272
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 3: It's tonight the night that what will happen? Ben, I

273
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 3: don't understand it is tonight the night that you watched

274
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 3: that you watched? Okay, get it right? Remember when that?

275
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sorry not to get two side travel.

276
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 3: When that film came out, it was a golden moment

277
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 3: for Christian merch. Remember there were like little nails, bracelets

278
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 3: and things, and it all felt a little commercial and weird.

279
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 3: I don't know what. I guess it's good for the faith,

280
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 3: you know, probably as was mel Gibson's intent, him being

281
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 3: a card carrying Christian and potentially a virulent anti Semite.

282
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,160
Speaker 3: Oh no potential about it. Yeah, I think he said

283
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,360
Speaker 3: some things, right, Yeah, So all right, here we go.

284
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 3: We've got this story a guy who is holy has

285
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 3: transcended the mortal veil and ever since he's around though

286
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 3: he exits the tomb and he's there, but then he ascends.

287
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,680
Speaker 3: Is that the idea that he sort of dematerializes I've

288
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 3: ever understood the function of that scene.

289
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 2: Well, he takes on the sins of every other person

290
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 2: who has ever lived, and if you obey Jesus Christ

291
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 2: and follow his teachings, then he will stick up for

292
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 2: you in the face of God. He is God, the

293
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 2: argument goes, so it's pretty important to get on his

294
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 2: good side.

295
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,960
Speaker 3: I guess what I'm talking about my confusion around the

296
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,160
Speaker 3: whole ascending into heaven. Think, if I'm not mistaken, there

297
00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,719
Speaker 3: are people in the Bible who saw him, yeah, like

298
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 3: like before that took place. So I'm just wondering, like,

299
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 3: what did that look like when he ascended. I've always

300
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 3: just wondered, like what that might have looked like if this,

301
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 3: you know, this story were to be true, if there

302
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 3: were people that saw him, you know, in his corporeal form,

303
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 3: and then did he like just kind of disintegrates and

304
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 3: become like, you know, air, and or.

305
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,919
Speaker 2: Did he physically fly up right into the hospma. I

306
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 2: always wondering, well, people still thought the idea of being

307
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 2: forgiven was massively cool, and a great many people, including

308
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 2: several of our fellow ridiculous historians, are on board with

309
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,879
Speaker 2: this idea today. It is spiritually incredibly important. We have

310
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 2: your back, folks. We're never here to yuck a yum.

311
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,640
Speaker 2: We think it is objectively regardless of your personal beliefs.

312
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 2: We think it is very cool to be lost and

313
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 2: to be found and loved once more. That's pretty nuts.

314
00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely.

315
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 3: And I personally, to quote the band King Missile, think

316
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 3: Jesus was way cool and have always been fascinated by

317
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,879
Speaker 3: him and his acts, whether or not the divine aspects

318
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 3: of it turn out to be true. And I'm not

319
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 3: here to say one way or the other. And my

320
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 3: whole you know, questioning of the ascension into heaven was

321
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 3: not trying to poke fun at all there. I just

322
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 3: truly like if that were to have happened. I mean,

323
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 3: we do a critical thinking conspiracy show, we talk about

324
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 3: the stuff in the spiritual realm all the time. I

325
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 3: just wonder what that might have looked like, here's the thing.

326
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 2: People are still trying to figure out how best to commemorate,

327
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 2: to emulate, and to celebrate the life and times of

328
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:50,360
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. Throughout the Western world and spoiler, a lot

329
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 2: of the non Western world. There are a ton of

330
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 2: people who celebrate the idea of the birthday of Jesus

331
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,120
Speaker 2: Christ as both a sacred religious hall day and as

332
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 2: a commercial phenomenon. For for like more than two thousand

333
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 2: years at this point, people around the world have been

334
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 2: observing our buddy Jesus's Big Day with traditions and practices

335
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 2: that are both religious and secular in nature. Please check

336
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 2: out our earlier episodes on things like the Yule Lads

337
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 2: or things like Crampis, old.

338
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 3: Boot liquor, no doorway sniffer, window liquors, window liquors, an

339
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 3: affect one song.

340
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 5: But they're all these I think are right.

341
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 4: Somewhat licking smelling. They're doing a milk it's cealing, goat milk.

342
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 4: There's a ghast it's noun verb. And they're like thirteen

343
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 4: of them. They're they're very weird.

344
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is worth worth your time to go back

345
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 3: and check that one out, because I can't remember half

346
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 3: of them to save my life. But they're all pretty

347
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 3: weird and pretty delightful, and we name check them regularly. Uh.

348
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 2: Popular customs in celebration of the birthday of Christ Christmas.

349
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 2: They include things like exchanging gifts. Depending on where you are,

350
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 2: you might wear a little hat, you might have a tree.

351
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: You'll probably go to church, you eat a nice dinner

352
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 2: Christmas dinner with friends and family, and then obviously, post

353
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 2: Coca cola, you wait for Santa Claus.

354
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,439
Speaker 3: To arrive hundred percent. And you know, pretty much all

355
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 3: the things you're describing are enjoyed by the secular and

356
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 3: the faithful alike. You know, me not personally being a Christian.

357
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: I have a Christmas tree in my house, and I

358
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 3: love exchanging gifts, and I love the customs and the

359
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 3: traditions of it all and try not to make it

360
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 3: too grossly commercial. But a lot of these things are

361
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 3: kind of marking the season too. It is kind of

362
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 3: hopefully encouraging a spirit of end of the year reflection

363
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 3: and generositude.

364
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's great, and this is the thing, all right.

365
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 2: So December twenty fifth, as Chris Smith's Day, has only

366
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: been a federal holiday in the United States since eighteen seventy.

367
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, oh quite recently.

368
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 3: I did know that. I just I'm still taken aback

369
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 3: by it. It's weird.

370
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 2: And also, this is the thing, this is the point

371
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: of our episode. We hope it's pretty well known by

372
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 2: this point. December twenty fifth, as the current western calendar reckons,

373
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: was not the actual birthday of Jesus Christ. In fact,

374
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 2: if you look at the ridiculous history here, his first

375
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: acknowledged birthday was three hundred years late. You know, you

376
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: say you like the guy and you take three hundred years.

377
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 3: So for the first three hundred years or so of

378
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,239
Speaker 3: what we would call Christianity as we know it, no

379
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 3: one was celebrating Christmas on December twenty fifth. Yeah.

380
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 2: The calendar you're using now in the West, the Gregorian

381
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: calendar system shout out greg was a created until the

382
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 2: late sixteenth century and tier point Noel. For the first

383
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: three hundred years or so of the Christian Church's existence.

384
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: Get this, they didn't really care about birthdays, right, They

385
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: were much more death obsessed.

386
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 3: It would seem the day on which a saint died,

387
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 3: which makes sense kind of because saints are usually often

388
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 3: martyred and so the death is when they become saints,

389
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 3: so it kind of does make sense to focus on

390
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: that rather than the birthday that would have been considered

391
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 3: much more important as it ushered them into the Kingdom

392
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 3: of Heaven.

393
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Right right, you nailed it. So at the time, the

394
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: baptism of Jesus Christ received way more attention than his birthday.

395
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: People would say, all right, he's born on January sixth.

396
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: That was their idea for quite some time. The first

397
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: recorded by which we mean written mentioned of the celebration

398
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: of Christmas comes about in three fifty four CE, more

399
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: than three centuries after the actual guy was actually born.

400
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: Hundred percent and even today in twenty twenty four as

401
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 3: we record this, no one can really agree on when

402
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 3: Jesus was actually born. One thing that can be pretty

403
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: well agreed on is that it wasn't on December twenty fifth. Yeah. Yeah.

404
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: A lot of folks will tell you that the actual

405
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 2: birth date was somewhere in early spring, which puts it

406
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: closer to Easter, which is also the holiday commemorating his resurrection. When,

407
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: as we discussed, the guy somehow rises to heaven.

408
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And this is something that we see all

409
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: the time I believe the term being religious syncretism. The

410
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: origins of Christmas and It's December Day much more likely

411
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: lie in the ancient Greco Roman traditions and more kind

412
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: of pagan celebrations.

413
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, there are three possible I would say, competing

414
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: celebrations for this rough calindrical parking space. The Roman Christian

415
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: historian sexist Julius Africanus.

416
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 3: Killer name Wow.

417
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well he didn't know it was hilarious to us.

418
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 3: I don't think it's hilarious. I think it's bad ass.

419
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,479
Speaker 3: I want to be sextist Julius Africanus. I did Mike

420
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: drop right after saying that name. I believe that you man,

421
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: I got your back. I got you six on that.

422
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 2: So this guy traces the conception of Jesus later called

423
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 2: Christ to March twenty fifth. By the way, that's the

424
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: same date this guy argued the world itself was created.

425
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. No,

426
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 3: I was just laughing at a word that I just

427
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 3: clocked a little further down in the outline. Shapoopy. Yeah, shapoopy.

428
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: That's just fun to say and fun. And I saw

429
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 3: it and I just immediately couldn't help but giggle. But generally,

430
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: if you're looking for another guy to pin this whole

431
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: reason for the season on, you're going to have to

432
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: look at a guy named Dionysus Exogus. Do we just

433
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: have not cool names? I think that's true. Bad. I

434
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: think names have gotten less cool. We need cooler needs.

435
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a hot take. I think names

436
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 3: have gotten less cool over time. But Dionysus Exogus was,

437
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 3: in fact a sixth century monk who was the first

438
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: to date all of history. From December twenty fifth, Viv

439
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: watched a period piece and you've got some fancy lads

440
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 3: talking about the year of our Lord. Won't here you go? Yeah?

441
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Other traditions disagreed with old Exegus, and they said,

442
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: maybe it was mid November, maybe it was March. It

443
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 2: is as we knew it did earlier. A real shapoopy.

444
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: Just please that word up and give our regards to

445
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: family guys.

446
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: Isn't shappoopy also a thing from Seinfelds. I know it's

447
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: a family guy thing. You've got a great clip here

448
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: and you should look that up. But I swear it

449
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 3: was something maybe it was shmoopy. I think I'm thinking

450
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 3: of Shmoopy. Shappoopy's different, but Shmoopy's also fun. So hey

451
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: travel with us back in time to the Roman Empire

452
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: during what they had no idea was going to be

453
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: referred to historically as the third century CE. Yeah, it

454
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 3: was just that day.

455
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: For this spoiler, Rome as an empire was not immediately

456
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: on board with this whole Jesus thing. They were, first off,

457
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: super anti Semitic, and second they had a bunch of

458
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: other competing holidays. They're an empire, So there was something

459
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: called Soul Invictus, the celebration of the Unconquered Sun, which

460
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: occurred around the same time. This was a very busy

461
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: day as holidays go, because it marked the natural passage

462
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: of the seasons, the return of longer days after the

463
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: winter solstice. Also, additionally, the Roman Empire had a festival

464
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: called the Saturnalia, and folks, if you can guess what

465
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: people did back then during Saturnalia, We're just going to

466
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: give you the truth. They had big parties. They ate

467
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: a lot of family meals, and they exchanged gifts.

468
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 3: With each other. What no orgies, well, you know for

469
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: a treat. Okay, fair enough. It was also the birthday

470
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: of the Indo European deity Mithra, God of Light, Lord

471
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: of Light. It's very Game of Thrones. The Red Woman.

472
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Mithra, who is kind of the pepsi to

473
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: the coke Heer, an ancient deity of cove eveance light.

474
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: As you said, noel oaths, justice, the Sun, and friendship.

475
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: To the Roman soldiers were a big fan.

476
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they They kind of were the way that

477
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: kids might wear no Fear t shirts in the nineteen nineties.

478
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: Maybe a little more intense than that, but I'm with you, Ben,

479
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: no question, But the question does become, what's the deal

480
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: with the first birthday? Why? December twenty fifth at all? Oh? Yeah.

481
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: To understand this, we have to introduce a guy named Constantine.

482
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: His full name, if he gets in trouble, is Flavius

483
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: Valerius Constantinus, also called himself Constantine One, or, in a

484
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: burst of humility, Constantine the Great. Now, this guy was

485
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: a real uh you know, he's like Taylor Swift. He's

486
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: a real up and comer.

487
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: In Rome. He rules the.

488
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: Place from three h six CE to three point thirty seven.

489
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: He is the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.

490
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: Huge deal, big historical more than footnote.

491
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: I mean, this is really what led to the proliferation

492
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: of Christianity and some of the later schisms that would

493
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: come out of that.

494
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

495
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

496
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: He plays a pivotal role in elevating the status of

497
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: Christianity and Rome, because before Constantine, people of the Christian

498
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: faith were getting treated like trash. He is the guy

499
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: who made it legal in the Empire to practice Christianity.

500
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: Before him, it was illegal, it was a crime to

501
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 2: be Christian. He also said, let's stop persecuting the Christians

502
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: on a day to day basis. This is called the

503
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: Constantinian shift, and this initiated, to your point, the Christianization

504
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: of the Roman Empire, right leading to you know, things

505
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: like the Vatican.

506
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 3: And Rome became the seat of the religion, you know,

507
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: for the entire world.

508
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: And back in three point thirty six CE, again, centuries

509
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: after this guy, the Church of Rome began formally celebrating

510
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: Christmas on December twenty fifth. Now we have to we

511
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: have to pause for a second because we're making Constantine

512
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: sound like a.

513
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 3: Super duper hero. But he probably had some other political

514
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: considerations with picking December twenty fifth as this celebration. For sure,

515
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: And it was also not to say that his hands

516
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 3: weren't covered in blood from like other stuff. Dude had

517
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: a reputation in other ways as being you know, just

518
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: as ruthless as many other people in his position. Yeah,

519
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: name one good emperor exactly then or now.

520
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: There's a lot of speculation that this guy in his

521
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: administration purposely chose December twenty fifth, not because they thought

522
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: it was shout out to our pal Laura and Vogelbaum,

523
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: the actual facts birth date of Jesus Christ. The argument

524
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: is that they may have thought choosing this holiday for

525
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: Christianity would weaken the celebrations of existing pagan schools of thought,

526
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: things like Saturnalia occurring around the same time. The rollout

527
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: was not perfect, by the way, the eastern area of

528
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: the Empire, they were still on this January sixth thing,

529
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: and it took like fifty years minimum to get them

530
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: on board with December twenty fifth.

531
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: Well, people are still calling ex Twitter to this day,

532
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 3: so big changes sometimes take time to be fully adopted.

533
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even then, after the adoption of this idea,

534
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: Christmas was not a major Christian festival, which we know

535
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: sounds very strange. People only started celebrate reading the birthday

536
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ in like a very big deal way

537
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: around the ninth century CE, almost a thousand years after

538
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: the Crucifixion. I'd like to quote Cheech Maren from Ghostbusters

539
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: where he says better late than never.

540
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: Cheach marens in Ghostbusters. Cheach maren is in Ghostbusters? Does

541
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: he just have like a walk on? I guess he's

542
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: totally blanking on this.

543
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: He's the guy who sees the Titanic arriving when all

544
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: the ghosts come back, guys, and he just pop on.

545
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: He's the guy who says better late than never.

546
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: I know, I believe that. It's just I've never caocked

547
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: that big, big, big Cheach fan actually got a crappy

548
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: guitar signed by what kind of guitar. It's just like

549
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: a cheap kind of Fender strat that would come in

550
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: like a strap pack you might get a kid for

551
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 3: a Christmas. But it's awesome. It's signed by both Cheech

552
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: and Chong and I look forward to one day upgrading

553
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 3: some of the parts on it so I can actually

554
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: play it.

555
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Tommy's cool man. So we we want to

556
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: keep this brief. We know everybody has a ton of

557
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: stuff happening in twenty twenty five. We know you have

558
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: so many loved ones to get to whether or not

559
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: you celebrate the reason for the season on December twenty fifth.

560
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: We're just so.

561
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: Happy you're here and this is a great time of reflection.

562
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: We do have to point out, of course it's kind

563
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: of ridiculous, right, that's a super late birthday party.

564
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: Oh for sure, we wouldn't have covered if an if

565
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: it wasn't ridiculous. That's sort of our number one criteria

566
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 3: for this show. That's not true. We talk about stuff,

567
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: it's not ridiculous. All that. We try to bring that

568
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: ridiculous flavor that you know and love even to the

569
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 3: heaviest of topics.

570
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: And big, big thanks to our own wise men super

571
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: producer mister Max Williams Noel Brown first of.

572
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 3: His name, Yeah I say that. Yeah, Can I say

573
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: that as far as far as I know? Can you

574
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 3: just add like a Roman one or a Roman eye

575
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: at the end of your name before it's in a year?

576
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 3: Why not? I'll try it on for size. Nice.

577
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: Nice, Thanks also to uh our composer mister Alex Williams.

578
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: Have we thanked his brother Max Williams. Yeah, let's think

579
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 3: of twice. Yes, and also Christopher Raciotas and Eves chef

580
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: Coats both here in Christmas spirit.

581
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: Hey, j Bahamas, Jacob's, Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance, Elizabeth, and

582
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: Zared our rude dudes over at ridiculous.

583
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: Crime and not to mention our very own Ebenezer Scrooge figure.

584
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: Jonathan Trickier, I think, uh, we're gonna hear from soon

585
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: if we haven't already, have we already? Yeah? Max, it's

586
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: we got a hard nod for Max.

587
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 2: Jonathan, I know you called me a smart ass and

588
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 2: that email.

589
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: I saw it. I saw it. We'll see you next time, folks.

590
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

591
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,