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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work.

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Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of

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Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our

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Speaker 1: reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate and

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now?

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Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have Bristol? Indeed we do well. First

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Speaker 1: of all, we got the perfect guest to break down

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Speaker 1: whatever the hell is going on in New York City

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Speaker 1: mayor's race the Board of Elections, of course, total catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: Looks like Catherine Garcia may have a chance to overtake

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Speaker 1: Eric Adams. So we're going to talk to Ross Barkan

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Speaker 1: about all of that. Jim Clyburn jumping into Nina Turner's

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Speaker 1: primary race, doing what he can to try to stop

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Speaker 1: her incredible momentum. Not an accident that he takes tons

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Speaker 1: of money from big Pharma, and Nina has just released

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Speaker 1: a new ad talking about Medicare for all. Not an

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Speaker 1: accident there. The CFO of Trump organization has turned himself

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Speaker 1: in today. Looks like he's going to be indicted on

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Speaker 1: charges of it's tax evasion on fringe benefits. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about all of that. Tucker Carlson says, the

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Speaker 1: NSA is spying on him. What do we know? What's

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Speaker 1: the fact? What's the fiction? Is the NSA also spying

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Speaker 1: on you? Very possibly? The answer is yes, Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: the big question. Yeah, exactly if they are spying on him,

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Speaker 1: he's not special, let's just put it that way. But

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Speaker 1: we wanted to start with what is a total outrage,

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Speaker 1: which is that yesterday, Bill Cosby walked free. It's pretty amazing, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: how these rich, famous guys who are rapists, alleged rapists

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Speaker 1: from mister Cosby's lawyers continue to walk. And let's put

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Speaker 1: this up there on the screen, which is that Bill

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Speaker 1: Cosby's conviction yesterday went ahead and was overturned by the

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Supreme Court by a vote of six to one.

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Speaker 1: I've got some mixed feelings on this because, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: on the legal grounds, it sounds like it was correctly decided.

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Speaker 1: But let's just explain what exactly was happening here. So

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand and five, Bill Cosby was given

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Speaker 1: an assurance by Bruce Caster. You might remember him as

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Speaker 1: that really weird lawyer who was doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff after the January sixth impeachment inquiry against Trump in

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Speaker 1: the Senate. That was him, that guy, the clown buffoonish figure.

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Speaker 1: Well Castor gave him an assurance at the time that

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Speaker 1: if mister Cosby were to testify in a subsequent civil case,

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Speaker 1: who was brought by Andrea Konstan She's one of the

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Speaker 1: main Cosby accusers in a civil suit that she filed

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Speaker 1: against him in two thousand and six for three point

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Speaker 1: three eight million dollars that he would not be prosecuted

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Speaker 1: explicitly under the case of this crime. So it seems

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Speaker 1: that castor By giving him that assurance and testifying to

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Speaker 1: that effect to the court basically made it a slam

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Speaker 1: dunk in terms of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court being able

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Speaker 1: to overturn this. Now, prosecutors at the time of going

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Speaker 1: after Bill Cosby had thought they might be able to

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Speaker 1: go over this because it didn't fall within the purview

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Speaker 1: of the agreement, but a six to one court decided

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Speaker 1: against it. And Crystal, you and I feel very mixed

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Speaker 1: about this because on the legal grounds it seems correctly decided.

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Speaker 1: It seems correctly decided. But it's pretty amazing. Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: and Bill Cosby and these holrrific rapists somehow all get

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Speaker 1: these little sweet also all meyar to two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five weird, all get these really weird like perfect sweetheart deals.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're not going to be prosecuted. The man admitted

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Speaker 1: to drugging her with queludes and raping her, and she

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Speaker 1: is one of dozens of Cosby victims. I recommended this

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Speaker 1: podcast to you I'll recommend it to all of you

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Speaker 1: chasing Cosby. The La Times did it. I listened to

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Speaker 1: it like two years ago. I've never been more horrified

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Speaker 1: at a story of sexual so possibly you know the

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Speaker 1: Epstein case. And just in terms of how much of

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Speaker 1: a cover up there was, how disgusting of a predator

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Speaker 1: this man was from the very beginning of his career

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Speaker 1: all the way up into old age. While he was

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Speaker 1: America's dad, he was going and drugging, raping young women

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Speaker 1: sometimes who were teenagers, buying them off, trying to call

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Speaker 1: their moms, promising them career college tuition, scumback and now

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Speaker 1: he gets to walk. It's just it makes me so

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Speaker 1: so angry. And you found this, You found this clip

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Speaker 1: of Cosby talking a little bit about it. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen. I want to show my panel a fascinating

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Speaker 1: interview we found from nineteen ninety one. Bill Cosby was

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Speaker 1: on CNN promoting a book. He tells an interesting story.

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Speaker 1: Take a look. Spanish fly was the thing that all

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Speaker 1: boys from age eleven on up to death. We will

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Speaker 1: still be searching for Spanish flyer. And what was the

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Speaker 1: old The old story was if you took it a

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Speaker 1: little drop. It was on the head of a pin

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Speaker 1: and I'll put it in, doesn't matter, it doesn't make it,

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Speaker 1: and the girl would drink it and she's hello American. Disgusting,

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Speaker 1: Absolutely disgusting. And so here's there's a lot to say

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Speaker 1: about all of this. First of all, from my reading

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Speaker 1: of it, you're right, this was correctly decided. It was

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Speaker 1: six to one in terms of Pennsylvania Supreme Court, so

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a particularly close call. In their view, even

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Speaker 1: a monster, the way our constitutional system works, deserves to

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Speaker 1: have their due process rights protected. However, that is far

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Speaker 1: from saying the legal system worked in this case or

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Speaker 1: that justice in any sense of the word was done here.

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Speaker 1: And one piece that I do take major issue within

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Speaker 1: this decision is they decided not only to vacate the conviction,

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Speaker 1: they also decided to rule against a retrial right. So

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Speaker 1: that means this is it. That's it. He's free. But

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Speaker 1: you think about the failures that occurred, not just with

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Speaker 1: the buffoon Bruce Caster promising him, hey, you know, you

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Speaker 1: testify in the civil case. We promise we're not going

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Speaker 1: to prosecute you, and then that testimony is partly what

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Speaker 1: they used in this trial. And secured the conviction. That's

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Speaker 1: why his due process rights were violated here. But the

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Speaker 1: failure goes to decades of this being an open seat.

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Speaker 1: He's talking about it to Larry King, You talking about

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Speaker 1: it in nineteen one. Total societal failure allowing this monster

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Speaker 1: to go on and victimize woman after woman after woman.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't until Hannibal burst the commedian Remember how

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Speaker 1: this all came about. What I think was in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: made a joke about, hey, we all know Bill Cosby's

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Speaker 1: a rapist, right, and that triggered all of these women

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Speaker 1: to be able to come forward. That finally sparked this

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Speaker 1: legal case against him. But because society had protected this

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Speaker 1: rich and famous man, just like they did Harvey Weinstein,

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Speaker 1: just like they did Jeffrey Epstein over decades, this case

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Speaker 1: with Andrey konstant was the only one where the statute

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Speaker 1: of limitations had not expired, And on the day that

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Speaker 1: she filed this case, it was days before the statute

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Speaker 1: of limitations would have expired even in this case. So

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Speaker 1: that's why all of the dozens of women, I think

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Speaker 1: we have a tear sheet of the number of women

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Speaker 1: who have come forward and said this is exactly and

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Speaker 1: the story is the same. In every case. He drugged me,

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Speaker 1: like you said, he offered career help, he offered me guidance,

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Speaker 1: and then sexually assaulted raped me. In case after case

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Speaker 1: after case years, this man was protected. And so it's

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Speaker 1: a societal failure, it is a legal system failure. And

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Speaker 1: I do think, while on the technical term again, and

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Speaker 1: this is what's uncomfortable in one of the things that

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Speaker 1: we do stand up here for on the show. As

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Speaker 1: a civil libertarians and people who believe in people having

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Speaker 1: due process rights correctly decided on those merits. He should

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Speaker 1: be retried, though there should be an ability to retry him.

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Speaker 1: Barring the evidence that he gave in the civil case,

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Speaker 1: there may have still been enough there to convict him

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Speaker 1: on these terms. So it is a totally outrageous and

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Speaker 1: unjust state of affairs that this man is going free.

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Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, everybody on the internet is

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Speaker 1: pointing out Britney's motion at the same time to get

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Speaker 1: her dad removed from her conservatorship is denied. So we

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Speaker 1: got Bill Cosby free and Brittany still effectively jailed. Cosby's

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Speaker 1: not just free, you know, he put a little thumb.

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Speaker 1: He gave a little vict V for victory. Let's put

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Speaker 1: this up there. I have a picture of it yesterday

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Speaker 1: from a taken by a chopper. I'm mean, look at

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Speaker 1: this guy, he's walking free out of prison. He's got

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Speaker 1: his peace sign. I even saw one of the moms.

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Speaker 1: I think who from the Cosby so Felicia Rashad, who,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is now a dean at Howard University,

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Speaker 1: who Kire in Washington, who actually tweeted on his behalf

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Speaker 1: be like justice has been done, miscarre, you know, screw you,

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Speaker 1: And for all of the students at Howard University. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine having a dean who is somebody

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Speaker 1: who expressed solidarity with Bill Cosby. Wow, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: read a little bit from what some of these women say.

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Speaker 1: He said, let's try a cold read. Pulls out a script.

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Speaker 1: The scene was set in a bar, so someone was inebriated.

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Speaker 1: He poured me a glass of wine. He said, use

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Speaker 1: this as a prop. I don't remember much after that.

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Speaker 1: Here's another one he he went, and I had a

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Speaker 1: modeling contract. I took a few SIPs a horrible taste.

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Speaker 1: I started not to feel well. He helped me up

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Speaker 1: by my under arms, and he walked me into the

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Speaker 1: next room where there was a mirror on the wall,

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Speaker 1: and he told me to look at myself, and then

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Speaker 1: he sexually assaulted her. I looked around. He was sitting

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Speaker 1: next to my roommate with this very predatory look on

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Speaker 1: his face. She was completely unconscious. There are thirty five

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Speaker 1: of these which are listed there, and that's only about

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Speaker 1: half of them. So, like I said, I encourage you

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Speaker 1: go listen to that Chasing Cosby podcast. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get so upset if I even have to think about

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Speaker 1: so many of the way that they recounted. But we

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Speaker 1: will leave it with Andrew herself, who gave an interview

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Speaker 1: about what he did. So let's take close. He said,

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Speaker 1: they'll help you relax. And I said, like, are they?

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Speaker 1: Are they natural? Are they like a herbal remedy? He said, no,

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Speaker 1: they're your friends. Just put him down there, your friends,

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Speaker 1: they're your friends. Just put him down. Swallow and he

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Speaker 1: hands me some wa I get some water somehow, and

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Speaker 1: I swallowed the three pills down. Why do you do that?

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Speaker 1: I took them because I trusted that they would maybe

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Speaker 1: just help me feel a little more relaxed, trust did

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Speaker 1: him Yes, I did, Yes, I did, as Andrea testified

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Speaker 1: in court, Within a half hour, she started slurring her

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Speaker 1: words and could no longer walk. Cosby helped her to

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Speaker 1: a couch, she says, and assaulted her. And you know, Andrea,

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Speaker 1: she was a young girl when that happened, and she

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Speaker 1: had her whole life ahead of her. And she was

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Speaker 1: the one whose mom called he called her mom, and

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Speaker 1: who was like, all pay for a college tuition, and

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Speaker 1: she was a star basketball player and all this her

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Speaker 1: life was ruined. She literally had decades of therapy. I

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Speaker 1: think she's in her fifties now or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and she still has to live with it. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I really don't even know what to say. I can't

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Speaker 1: believe this guy gets weak. There's two other things I

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Speaker 1: want to say. Number One, it makes me feel sad

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Speaker 1: about what has been what has happened to the Me

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Speaker 1: Too movement because this cause was just the cause of

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Speaker 1: taking down Harvey Weinstein was just a lot of the

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Speaker 1: societal correction desperately needed to happen. And for so many years,

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Speaker 1: women like Andrea, they couldn't come forward, no one would

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Speaker 1: believe them. That'd be pushed to the side, they'd be smaritized, slutschained,

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Speaker 1: all of that. Okay, So a societal correction desperately needed

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Speaker 1: to happen. Now you've had all these grifters, you've tried

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Speaker 1: to like reattain relevancy, people like Alyssa Milano latching onto it.

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Speaker 1: You see people who are just total potentially frauds, like

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Speaker 1: the woman who took down Scott Stringer in the New

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Speaker 1: York City mayor mayor's race. You see the way this

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Speaker 1: was weaponized. For sure, this one we know one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent against Alex Morse in this race. So it makes

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Speaker 1: me sad to reflect on that. And then the one

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Speaker 1: other thing that I'll say is like, I just can't

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Speaker 1: stop thinking about the way that this man Bill Cosby

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Speaker 1: lectured America and especially Black America for years about like

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Speaker 1: you gotta pull up your pants and respectable, respectability politics,

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Speaker 1: as if he was in any position to be a

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Speaker 1: moral arbiter or a moral voice in society. It's outrageous,

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Speaker 1: and reflecting on it now you sort of realize his

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Speaker 1: message was like, well, as long as you present like

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Speaker 1: you're good and above board on the outside, on the inside,

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Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter. Just the exteriors what counts, and

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Speaker 1: we see now what an ugly, ugly, man ugly interior

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Speaker 1: this was, and what he did to so many women

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Speaker 1: and not to face justice. It is an absolute outrage.

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Speaker 1: We'll continue to follow it if there's any major developments.

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Speaker 1: Wanted to make sure that we, you guys, knew all

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Speaker 1: the details that were involved, both the fact that it

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Speaker 1: was probably legally correctly decided, but just how much of

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Speaker 1: a miscarriage of actual justice this entire thing is, indeed?

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Speaker 1: All right, So moving on, We've got so you guys

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Speaker 1: probably know Nina Turner, who was a campaign co chair

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Speaker 1: of Bernie Sanders, one of his strongest, most passionate voices,

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Speaker 1: but also an incredible force in her own right in

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Speaker 1: terms of progressive Democrats. She's running in an Ohio special

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Speaker 1: election in a Democratic primary. All indications have been that

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Speaker 1: Nina is way out ahead of the field. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people here in Washington who

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Speaker 1: do not want to see Nina Turner come to Congress.

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Speaker 1: And what's interesting too, is that so this is a

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Speaker 1: seat that was vacated because Marcia Fudge ended up getting

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Speaker 1: an administration position, because Jim Clyburn pushed her to get

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Speaker 1: an administration position within the Biden administration. So now as

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Speaker 1: they're coming down the pike and Nina is way ahead,

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Speaker 1: gets who's weighed in to try to stop her momentum

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Speaker 1: and guarantee and establishment friendly voice ultimately gets into that seat,

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Speaker 1: and by the ways, the heavily democratic seat. So whoever

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Speaker 1: wins the primary very lately to end up in Congress,

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Speaker 1: The one and only Jim Clyburn decided to jump in

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Speaker 1: and endorse Nina's main opponent, a woman named Sean tel

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Speaker 1: Brown who's also been endorsed by people like Hillary Clinton,

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Speaker 1: the usual cast of characters. And you know, first of all,

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Speaker 1: let me say that this New York Times peace was

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Speaker 1: really obnoxious, even the way they frame Nina's like a

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Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders acolyte, as if she doesn't stand on her

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Speaker 1: own two feet. She had a long political career before

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Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders jumped up and ran for president. You know, Io,

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Speaker 1: she secured a lot of local endorsements there because people

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Speaker 1: in this is a Cleveland area seat. People there have

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Speaker 1: known her, have worked with her. Outside of her national

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Speaker 1: brand and image, She's long lived in Cleveland. This is

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Speaker 1: her home. This is where you know, her family is

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So Jim Cliburn, just as he

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Speaker 1: jumped into the presidential race to rescue Joe Biden's failing campaign,

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Speaker 1: and really was that was the moment where everything flipped.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to pull off the same magic here at Ohio,

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Speaker 1: and the question is is it going to work now?

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Speaker 1: I don't. Of course, when he endorsed Biden, it was

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Speaker 1: going into the South Carolina primary. Jim Clyve urt is

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Speaker 1: from representative from South Carolina state, has a lot more

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Speaker 1: club there than you would expect him to have in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: But still very interesting and troubling development. Nina has made

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. She's raised over one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars in one day after Cliburn. I think we have

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Speaker 1: that tweet or tear that we can throw up there

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Speaker 1: on the set after Cliburn. Johnson here Dave Weigel saying

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Speaker 1: she raised one hundred thousand dollars plus in the wake

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Speaker 1: of Hillary's endorse and then did it again in the

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Speaker 1: wake of the Clyburn endorsement last night, and is the

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Speaker 1: quote for Nina's campaign. What we saw overnight was people

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Speaker 1: at the grassroots rallying to support Nina Turner against corporate interest.

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Speaker 1: So I guess thank you Jim clyburn for helping with

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Speaker 1: Nina Turner's fund raising totals. Yeah, and we don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly where the polls stand, so as of a month ago,

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Speaker 1: this is the latest one we have. We can put

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Speaker 1: it up there on the screen from WKYC Studios, which

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Speaker 1: is that Nina Turner actually led the Democratic Party race

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Speaker 1: in Ohio with support from fifty percent of likely voters.

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Speaker 1: So fifty percent obviously is a large plurality there, much

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Speaker 1: bigger than her nearest opponent, and makes it so that, Look,

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Speaker 1: polling in these types of districts is always hard, it's local.

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Speaker 1: These things can change. Jim Cliburn overnight changed the entire

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Speaker 1: electorate of the state of South Carolina for the Democratic primary,

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Speaker 1: So I don't want to discount it. I have no idea, Frankly,

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Speaker 1: The real question is this, how much cachet does Jim

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Speaker 1: clyburn hold amongst the national black electorate versus the South

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Speaker 1: Carolina black electorate, right, because what was it? One quarter

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Speaker 1: of late break black voters in the South Carolina Democratic

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Speaker 1: primary said that Clyburne's endorsement was a definitive thing and

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Speaker 1: move them over the edge. For Biden, what is it

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Speaker 1: in Ohio? I have no clue. I can't tell you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to say it's probably not the same,

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Speaker 1: but it could certainly be. Still. Look, he's a pillar

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Speaker 1: of the black community. He's been an activist and worked

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Speaker 1: in it for a very long time. So the real

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Speaker 1: question is how much sway and cachet that he has

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Speaker 1: within that community to move the needle one way or

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Speaker 1: the other. We truly just have no idea. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I think his influence certainly strongest in the sou in

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Speaker 1: South Carolina, it's huge. And then next you would say

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Speaker 1: regionally in the in the South, like Alabama, how much

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Speaker 1: sway does he have in Ohio? Hard to say, but

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Speaker 1: like you said, I wouldn't want to discount it. And clearly,

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Speaker 1: I think what this is really a sign of is

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Speaker 1: the fact that the establishment of the Democratic Party is

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Speaker 1: going all in to do whatever they can to block

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Speaker 1: Nana Turner. You almost wonder if Obama get his hands

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Speaker 1: dirty and get involved in this race, would not that

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Speaker 1: would be pretty nearby he could do it. That would

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Speaker 1: be one that you know, that one really would be

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Speaker 1: a major issue if he were to decide to get

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Speaker 1: involved here. And that pole that you cided, which was

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Speaker 1: about a month ago, and by the way, I think

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Speaker 1: was from it was an internal campaign poll from Nina Turner,

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Speaker 1: so you always have to take those with a little

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Speaker 1: bit of grain of salt. But that being said, it

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Speaker 1: showed Nina at fifty and her next closest competitor, chan

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Speaker 1: Tell Brown, who was just endorsed by Clyburn at fifteen.

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Speaker 1: So up until recently, Nina Turner was running away with

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Speaker 1: this race. There's just a few weeks left to go

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Speaker 1: before voters actually had to the poles here. The other

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Speaker 1: thing that's worth pointing out is like, why is it

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Speaker 1: that they're so concerned about Senator Turner making it into

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Speaker 1: the US House of Representatives. Well, as David Cerroto's pointed out,

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Speaker 1: Clyburn is a top recipient of big Pharma cash, million

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Speaker 1: dollars of campaign cash from Big Farmer, one of the

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Speaker 1: top recipients in the House in terms of big farm

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Speaker 1: of cash. Oh and oh, by the way, Nina Turner

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Speaker 1: just recently released an ad promoting Medicare for all. So

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Speaker 1: when you want to know why they're so adamant against

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Speaker 1: people like Nina Turner. Ever getting into the House of Representatives.

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Speaker 1: You got to follow the money, right. The donors who

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Speaker 1: have contributed to him have helped to bolster his career.

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Speaker 1: They detest people like Nina Turner, they detest Medicare for All.

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Speaker 1: They will do everything in their power they possibly can

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Speaker 1: to stop any champions and advocates of that program from

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Speaker 1: ascending to any heights of power. So not a coincidence

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Speaker 1: that one of the largest recipients of big pharmacash comes

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Speaker 1: in here close to the last minute to try to

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Speaker 1: stop Nina Turner. I think it's a confluence of both,

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Speaker 1: which is both that he gets a lot of that.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a legitimate believer. I do want to

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Speaker 1: say that I don't know how much, but I think

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Speaker 1: he really believes in this, like moderate Lane dem Party.

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Speaker 1: Cliburn from everything I've read and Lucky and More was

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Speaker 1: like all in on Joe Biden because he thought he

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Speaker 1: was the only one who could win the p residential election.

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Speaker 1: And I think he views the Sanders Left as an

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Speaker 1: ext essential threat to Democratic Party, the ability of the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party to win votes. Now, look, I think he's

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Speaker 1: incorrect in some respects. The potential threat to his base

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Speaker 1: of power. Oh for sure, that's truly about well, in

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Speaker 1: a way, it's true, right, So I think it is

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Speaker 1: both big pharma and I think he's a true believer.

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Speaker 1: It's one of these things where it all comes intersecting

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Speaker 1: together and then it makes it so that you know,

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Speaker 1: if you ever do want to depart from the aims

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Speaker 1: or whatever of your true goals, then things could become

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Speaker 1: a little bit dicey. So yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: Cliburn very very much views himself in his old age

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Speaker 1: as like holding on to the legacy of a lot

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Speaker 1: of the old Democratic brand of the nineteen nineties and

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Speaker 1: just wants to do everything in his power in order

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Speaker 1: to make sure that doesn't happen. It is pretty amazing though,

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Speaker 1: to see like him Hillary come in and like you said,

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Speaker 1: don't discount it. If Obama gets in, that's bad for

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Speaker 1: Nina Turner. He's probably the most popular Democrat in the

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Speaker 1: entire country, even more so than Joe Biden, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of amazing because he's a sitting president of the

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Speaker 1: United States. But it just goes to show you how

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Speaker 1: much power these people can have if they intercede. Like

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Speaker 1: we said, though, if Nina does still win despite this,

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Speaker 1: and they always risk looking like fools. If they go

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Speaker 1: all in and she wins against those odds, then she's

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Speaker 1: got nothing to lose. Yeah, and I think that makes

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Speaker 1: it even harder for them in the house. And that's

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Speaker 1: in Lucky. That was what he weighed with Biden. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to endorse Biden and he was not planning on

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Speaker 1: endorsing anything else. According to Amy Parns and Jonathan Allen,

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Speaker 1: both really good reporters who we interviewed in that book,

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Speaker 1: was quite facinating love and his hesitation was that the

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Speaker 1: Biden campaign was such like dog shit. But he was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this guy can win, and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to endorse a candidate who's just a total failure.

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Speaker 1: So at the last minute, when it was basically like

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Speaker 1: all right, I got on a choice here else Bernie

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Speaker 1: Sanders is going to be the nominee. That's when he

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Speaker 1: ultimately decides to jump in. So you're right, he recognizes

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Speaker 1: he's wary of endorsing candidates who can't actually win, because, yeah,

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Speaker 1: then it's embarrassing. Then you're sort of showing that you, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that you don't have the power that you're trying to

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Speaker 1: project that cuts down on like the influence in the

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Speaker 1: sway that you're able to hold with other candidates and

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Speaker 1: within the caucus, et cetera. So this is a big

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Speaker 1: risk for him, for Hillary, for all of the Democratic

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Speaker 1: establishment types. And you can see what a threat they

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Speaker 1: feel that Nina Turner and this wing of the party

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Speaker 1: is to their power base and you know, the sort

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Speaker 1: of like establishment of the Democratic Party. So very interesting

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Speaker 1: development there. Hey, so remember how we told you how

428
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: awesome premium membership was. Well, here we are again to

429
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: remind you that becoming a premium member means you don't

430
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: have to listen to our constant please for you to subscribe.

431
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: So what are you waiting for? Become a premium member

432
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: today by going to Breakingpoints dot com, which you can

433
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: click on in the show notes, you want to break

434
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: down the Trump org latest development story. But also we

435
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: have hot legal takes for everybody this morning. So Trump

436
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: Organization CFO Alan wei Weisselberg is expected to be charged Thursday.

437
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: He surrendered this morning to Manhattan authorities. And so what

438
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: he did is he surrendered there to the DA's office

439
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: as he's prepared to face charges in connection with the

440
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: tax investigation. Exact charges are yet known, but here's a

441
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: little bit about what we do know, which is that

442
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: they say the Trump organization and them was whatever they

443
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: were praised for, doing whatever was necessary to protect the

444
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: bottom line. As part of that inquiry, they looked on

445
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: whether Weis Weiselberg failed to pay taxes on valuable benefits

446
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: that he and his family received from Trump, including private

447
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: school tuition for at least one of his grandchildren, free apartments,

448
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: and least cars. The prosecutors who are also working there

449
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: with the people from the New York State Attorney General's office,

450
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: investigated whether the Trump organization failed to pay payroll taxes

451
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: on what should have been taxable income. So, all of

452
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: this being said, look after what has it been like

453
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: five years of fever, dreams of resistance, hopes and dreams

454
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: poured into this, all they got him for was some

455
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: unpaid payroll taxes on in kind or sorry, unpaid payroll

456
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 1: taxes and no taxes paid on in kind benefits from

457
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: the job. I'm not saying that that shouldn't be paid,

458
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: but look, this seems like a bit of a stretch

459
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: to throw the full weight of the Manhattan DA and

460
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: the New York stated Journey General on more and frankly,

461
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: given everything we know about the Trump organization, I'm shocked

462
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: that after all this, this is the best thing if

463
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: they did. Maybe Trump is a better bookkeeper than I thought.

464
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought he was guilty as sin is,

465
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: like from actual tax fraud. I also think that all

466
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: the people who voted for him wouldn't care. And that's

467
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: why I've always thought that this entire investigation in creating

468
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: and keeping the veneer of legitimacy around the justice system

469
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: on this is actually pretty important, because if you make

470
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: it seem like a political witch hunt and more, it

471
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: will be very bad. And frankly, I think that this

472
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: case is somewhere in the gray area on that one. Yeah,

473
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: I have to kind of agree. I was equally surprised that, like, wait,

474
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 1: this is it and it's all we got them for.

475
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: Even Trump's lawyer was surprised. We have a quote from

476
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: Trump's lawyer being like, wait, that's it right on these charges.

477
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 1: So just to break down what the allegations are here.

478
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: As far as we know, the full charges are being

479
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: unsealed today, so we'll have more details for you next

480
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: time we do a show. But what we know is

481
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: basically that Weisselberg and other Trump Org executives, but in

482
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: particular the CFO Weisselberg, who's been the focus of a

483
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: lot of the inquiry because as a CFO, presumably he

484
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: has insight into all of the financial machinations of Donald

485
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: Trump and the Trump organization, so was given benefits things

486
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: like car service, paying for apartments, paying for kids school tuition,

487
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: that all of that stuff, which is not okay. I mean,

488
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: this is gross and I'm sure your company, if you're

489
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: you know, are a worker, I'm sure that I'm not

490
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: paying for your apartment and your kid's tuition. Right. So

491
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: the allegation is they receive these benefits and that should

492
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: all be taxable as income effectively, and that none of

493
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: it was recognized as income. So that's what they're going

494
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: after them for. The case has not closed, so there

495
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: could be additional charges in addition to this, although apparently reportedly,

496
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: according to Trump's lawyer, take it with a grain of

497
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: stall Syvance in his office told them that the former

498
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: President's not going to be charged and that this is

499
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: basically it in terms of it. You can see he says,

500
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: we yes, is there anything else? And they said, no,

501
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: it's crazy that that's all they had. He added, we

502
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: feel the same way. So, but part of why they

503
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: are going after Weiselberg here is because they want to

504
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: put pressure on him to try to flip, and so

505
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: far he has resisted all of that pressure and said

506
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: he's not going to cooperate. He's not gonna like, he's

507
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: not going to flip on Trump and tell whatever it

508
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: is that he knows, if he knows anything that's nefarious.

509
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: So going after him for these fringe benefits is an

510
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: effort to try to put pressure on him to turn

511
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: on Trump. At least that's what you know the legal

512
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: folks out there are saying and are telling the press,

513
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: And that makes some sense to me because otherwise it's

514
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: it's very rare. Maybe maybe these sorts of things they

515
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: should go after them more often. Obviously, white collar crime

516
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: is not prosecuted nearly enough. You could steal if you're

517
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: a wealthy person, and everybody just seems to like look

518
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: the other way and be cool with it. So maybe

519
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: this should be going after more often. But the fact

520
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: of the matter is to go after a company and

521
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: an individual just on the basis of fringe benefits is

522
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: extraordinarily rare, if not unprecedented. So with an IRS, an

523
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: unusual situation. Hit him with an IRS New York State,

524
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, financial office thing like anybody else. I mean,

525
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: it's clear, right, get it, find him. Okay, fine, you

526
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: know all of that. But this is a real bit

527
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: of a stretch. As you said, a lot of people

528
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: in the legal community being like, I don't know if

529
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: I've ever seen a prosecution prosecution, and there's a big

530
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: difference in prosecution finding an IRS enforcement or state tax

531
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: enforcement between what we're seeing here. So look, I mean,

532
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: pretty naked clear what they're trying to do here. Will

533
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: it work? I don't know. Seemed like on Russia Gate,

534
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: you know, Man Afford and who's the other guy, I

535
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: don't even remember his name, Rick something, Rick Gates. I

536
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: think whatever, that doesn't matter anyway, Yes see, it didn't

537
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: end up mattering, did it? These guys, Oh there's trial,

538
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 1: Oh Carter Page, Oh my god, George Popadopoulos, all these people,

539
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: you know, real cast of characters there and what did it?

540
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: All amounts to nothing? And I think this seems pretty

541
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: pried about. The thing I'm surprised about is it's pretty

542
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: well established in the public public record at this point

543
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: that Trump would aggressively play around with the valuation of

544
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: his assets depending on what's to appreciate them. Master So

545
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: in terms of taxation, he would you know, say that

546
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: all of his stuff was basically worthless in terms of

547
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: getting loans, then suddenly and using these assets as collateral,

548
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: then suddenly they were worth you know, insane amounts, and

549
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: of course to the press, but that doesn't matter from

550
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: a legal perspective. So that was the part that I

551
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: thought there would be something there about. I mean, this

552
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: is this is illegal to lie about the valuation of assets.

553
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: Spoke to the irs and also to banks in terms

554
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: of securing loans and all of that. So that was

555
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: the part that I was sort of expecting to be

556
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: in all of this, because again it's more or less

557
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: established on the public record that those are the types

558
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: of shenanigans that he would routinely engage in. But so far,

559
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: and again this doesn't totally close the door to additional charges,

560
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: although if you know, it seems like the indication is

561
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: this is kind of all they have at this point.

562
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: They're depending on Alan Weisselberg to flip in order to

563
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: get anything additional. This is what they have so far.

564
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: The one other piece that I would throw into this

565
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: is Syvance's term is all but over. There'll be a

566
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: new Manhattan DA. I can't remember his Randy Bragg maybe

567
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: I think you're right, actually so, and he was seen

568
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: as sort of the more progressive but not lefty pick.

569
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: It was more progressive than there was like a Wall

570
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Street tool lady who gave say self eight million dollars

571
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: is the choice of Wall Street. She and Hillary Clinton too,

572
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: by the way, she didn't win. The Bernie left candidate

573
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: didn't win. It was this guy who was seen as

574
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: like progressive but not as far left as you know.

575
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: Some other choices may have been. So he'll be taking

576
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 1: over this prosecution. Different choices could be made, the investigation

577
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: could go in a different direction. So that puts a

578
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: question mark over all of this. Yeah, so there we go.

579
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: We'll keep you guys updated. I'm sure MSNBC's leading their

580
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: coverage with this, telling you about how much of a bombshell.

581
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: I would not believe so much. Yeah, yeah, temper your

582
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: walls are closing in. Takes risk, guys. All right, So

583
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: now we have this big story. There's a lot of

584
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: stuff going on, here, I'll set it up a little bit.

585
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: So Tucker Carlson, he went on the air a couple

586
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: of days ago. He made a pretty big allegation. So

587
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: let's put this up there. It's a tweet. Tucker said,

588
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: a whistleblower within the United States government told him he's

589
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: being spied on by the NSSA and that he had

590
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: filed a Foyer request for information. He said, quote, the

591
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: Biden administration is spying on us. We have confirmed that. Okay,

592
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: So that's a pretty big allegation. And by the way,

593
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of evidence at least at this point,

594
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: in order to support that that they have been order

595
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: to offer up. On the other hand, though, the NSSA

596
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: then put out a statement. This is actually pretty rare,

597
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: so let's put this up there. So they put out

598
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: this statement on June twenty eight, Tucker Carlson alleges the

599
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: National Security Agency's been monitoring electronic communications is planning to

600
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: leak them an attempt to take this show off the air.

601
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: This allegation is untrue. Tucker Carlson has never been an

602
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: intelligence target of the agency, and the NSSA has never

603
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: had any plans to try to take his program off

604
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: the air. Now, this took a lot of attention because

605
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: of this reason. They use their language very specifically. They said,

606
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson has never been an intelligence target of the agency,

607
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: and the NSSA has never had any plans to try

608
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: to take a program off the air. Now, the target

609
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: there is the very important word. And I can tell

610
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: you this from one Edward Snowden, who tweeted this yesterday

611
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: seemingly in support of what is happening here, which is

612
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: quoting a Microsoft executive in the Associated Press that said quote,

613
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: targeting of Americans records is routine. Federal law enforcement agencies

614
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: secretly seek the data of Microsoft customers thousands of times

615
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: a year, according to congressional testimony wednesday by a senior

616
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: executive at the technology Microsoft Company, Tom Burt, who's the

617
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: Microsoft corporate vice president for Customer Security and Trust, told

618
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: members of the House Judiciary Committee, in recent years, the

619
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: company has been presented between twenty four hundred to thirty

620
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: five hundred secrecy orders a year, or about seven to

621
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: ten per day. None of this has anything to do

622
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: with Tucker. We're only saying that in this particular case

623
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: that Snowden has put here forward that the targeting of

624
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: Americans data does happen often. As I said, zero evidence

625
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: indicate what Tucker is saying is true, and we have

626
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: some information that News doesn't necessarily believe what he's saying. Yeah,

627
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: but also the NSA in that tweet of that statement

628
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: they turned off replies there's actually a lot of quasi

629
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: legality over whether they're even allowed to do that, right,

630
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: And there's deep skepticism online. Why should we believe these people.

631
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: They've lied to us publicly time after time after again,

632
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: both in the Russian investigation but far before that regarding

633
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: whether they were spying Americans and more, which was revealed

634
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: in many of the Snowden documents. Yeah, I mean, look,

635
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: I don't trust that NSA. Also don't trust Tucker, So

636
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 1: you're left with kind of like, I don't know what

637
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: the hell is going on here. That's a reason take

638
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: instead of standing for the NSA right which it is,

639
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: which is always the instinct from liberals in the media

640
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 1: is like, of course the NFA would never do something

641
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: like that reflexively, especially any time it's Trump or Tucker

642
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: or someone on the right alleging and abuse of power.

643
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: We covered. It reminds me very much of we covered

644
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: the allegations that FBI informants were involved in some way

645
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: on January sixth, that's right. We don't know, right, have

646
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: no idea whether that is the case or not. Would

647
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: it be crazy? But we know that the FBI has

648
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: infiltrated some of these groups that were involved in January sixth.

649
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: So is it crazy to think that there were FBI

650
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: informants that were involved in the January six riots. No,

651
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: it's not. And the media that treated that is crazy

652
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: rather than actually going out and investigating the claims to

653
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: see whether there was any veracity to it, they're clownish

654
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: And it's also clownish here. I guess what I would

655
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: say is like, it's possible the NSA is spying on

656
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson, because it's possible that NSA is spying on

657
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: any and all of us. Like, if he's being spied on,

658
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: he's really not special because, as Edward Snowden is pointing

659
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: out here from the Microsoft CEO, this type of data

660
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: collection from US citizens happens all the time, totally routine.

661
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: So I have no idea whether there's any veracity to it.

662
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: The NSA's statement was super like it just felt very

663
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: much yeah, very lawyerly, that's exactly the right term. Now,

664
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: maybe they're just like awkwardly phrasing this or something, but

665
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: it felt like, what can we say that's technically true

666
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: that gives the like appearance of that nothing to see

667
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: here without you know, exposing what's really going on. We

668
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: don't know, but I again, the NSA statement did seem

669
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: like sort of parsed and weird and loyally. Glenn Greenwold

670
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: of course has put out his takes in his own

671
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: view of this, which is somewhere at ours basically like

672
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on, but it's biz ORed

673
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: that the NSA allowed no replies. Second, the NSA has

674
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: used the same deceit for years. They could spy on

675
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: US citizens communications without quote targeting the American That's a

676
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: really important point. Third, and say has extremely brought authorities

677
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: to collect communications without targeting a person. So saying that

678
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: Tucker is not a target is not the same as

679
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: saying that he's not being spied on. So on the

680
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: other hand, you know, this is a bombshell claim and

681
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: you made know this, But Tucker works for an organization

682
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: that at least purports to be a news organization, so

683
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: you would think that they would be all over investigating

684
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: this and looking into it. But we have This is

685
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: from Eric Wemple at the Washington Post, who's you know,

686
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: a mixed bag. Take it for what it's worth. But

687
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: I think he makes a good point. They're not really

688
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: repeating the claims. They don't appear to be like looking

689
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: into this as a news network or doing any reporting

690
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: on it. So you know, that also raises questions like

691
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: it seems like his own network doesn't really buy or

692
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: doesn't really care or something that these allegations are true.

693
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: So take that for what it's worth as well. Right,

694
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: So look, Mark, we said no clue. Snowden did put

695
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: out a tweet. I believe we have it if we

696
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: can put it up there on the screen, which is

697
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: this which is submitted without comment. Executive Order one two

698
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: three three rules permit bulk, indiscriminate collection without a warrant.

699
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: That has long raised privacy and civil liberties concerns about

700
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: what the government may do with American's private messages. All

701
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: of this is like you said, who knows is Tucker

702
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: being spied on? We literally have no idea. The NSSA

703
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: statement incredibly loyally using the word targeting when we know

704
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: that you can be spied on even if though you're

705
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: not the target of an investigation. We learned a lot

706
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: of this during Russia Gate around Faizo, which is that

707
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: your records as an American citizen can actually be spied

708
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: upon if you're in communication with a foreign individual, and

709
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: they can actually just justify it based upon the foreign transcript. Also,

710
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: they use all sorts of games where they may not

711
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: have your data, but GCHQ, which is the British Intelligence Service,

712
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: is not bound by the Constitution. They can spy on

713
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: you and I, and that can be shared with the

714
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: NSA through a backdoor agreement, through the Five Eyes agreement

715
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: that we have with several Western democracies. So all of

716
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: this is to be said, we don't know, but I

717
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: don't think that people should be trusting the NSA. And

718
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, he put out a statement the House Minority

719
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: Leader saying that Congress should investigate where the NSA is

720
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: spying on Tucker blah blah blah. General Michael Hayden, with

721
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 1: the former head of the NSA quote tweeted him and said,

722
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: you're an asshole. Okay, I mean it's funny and a

723
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: lot of resistance libs really loved it. Here's the thing.

724
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: You want to be in a position where you're standing

725
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: General Michael Hayden, the former head of the NSSA, and

726
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, go ahead and dunk on Now. Look,

727
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: I think Kevin McCarthy's clown, but he's still the House

728
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: Minority leader. And so they're literally cheering on former security

729
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: state goons who are dunking on elected representatives whose purview

730
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: it is in order to look into NSA. And this

731
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: is part of the problem. No heroes in these stories.

732
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: Everybody's got you know, cooties macarthy's you know, right, if

733
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: it was a Muslim, it wouldn't care. If it was

734
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow who was being spider and he wouldn't care whatsoever.

735
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: It's all completely part of that exactly. So it's all

736
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: parts of But look, you take it out to the abstract.

737
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: Is the government spying on somebody who works for a

738
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: news organization? Why are people who are ex government goon

739
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: spooks who work in the media being stand by the

740
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: media for dunking on elected representatives And things start to

741
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: look a little dystopian. Yes, I also was just reminded

742
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: of We covered the story at Rising how the Biden

743
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: administration was considering using private firms that extremist chatter, and again,

744
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: it was an attempt to get around these legal constitutional

745
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: limitski constitutional rights. They couldn't do it directly, but they

746
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 1: thought maybe they could get away with this loophole where

747
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: if we let a private company do it and they

748
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: just let us know what they find, maybe then we

749
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: can get away with it. Still sounds incredibly illegal and

750
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: unconstitutional to me, but that just gives you a sense

751
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: of the type of legalistic loopholes that they will look

752
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: for and engage in to avoid having to technically target Americans.

753
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: So again, no idea whether what Tucker is saying is true.

754
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: Certainly he already he goes so far in terms of

755
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: selling this is definite. We've confirmed that it happens, et cetera,

756
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: et cetera. I also those claims not true. Yeah, not true.

757
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: But if he is being spied on, it's not special.

758
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: Lots of Americans are spied on. The fact that he

759
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: is a television sort of journalist does create even more problems. Well,

760
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: and if he was intentionally collected, that's a big story too.

761
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: And again, Look, you got to see a lot of

762
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: evidence before you make that quick. Yeah. So anyway, that's

763
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: what we know, which isn't a whole lot, But the

764
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: one thing we can say is the reflexive protecting of

765
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: the NSA is incredibly consistent and deeply disturbing. Yeah that's right. Wow,

766
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: you guys must really like listening to our voices. Well,

767
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: I know this is annoying instead of making you listen

768
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: to a Viagri commercial. When you're done, check out the

769
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: other podcast I do with Marshal Costsoff called The Realignment.

770
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about the deeper issues that are changing,

771
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: realigning in American society. You always need more Crystal and

772
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: Saga in your daily lives. Take care, guys, All right, Saga,

773
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: what are you looking at? Well? The slow demise of

774
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: cable news has been a favorite topic of this show.

775
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't it be? Both Crystal and Icy breaking Points

776
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: is diametrically opposed to that terrible medium, with an explicit

777
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: goal of counteracting the damage that they have done to

778
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: this country over the last thirty years. Now, I'm not

779
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: going to pretend that we succeeded, but I do like

780
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: to think the rapid rise of the show in the

781
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: last month has lessons for the future. But I have

782
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: even better and possibly even more important news to show

783
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: all of you. It's not just cable news. All partisan

784
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: media is doing terribly right now. A new Axios analysis

785
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: of traffic to partisan media outlets shows quote outlets most

786
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: dependent on controversy to stir up resentments have struggled to

787
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: find a foothold in the Biden era. Websites like that

788
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: of Newsmas have seen a forty four percent drop since February.

789
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: Lefty news outlets like mother Jones and Ross Story have

790
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: had a twenty seven percent drop. And it's not just

791
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: online blogs like them. The New York Times, Wall Street Journal,

792
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: USA Today Reuters are all down eighteen percent since February

793
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, places like Foxnews dot Com, BuzzFeed News,

794
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: The Atlantic and more twenty six percent to thirty one

795
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: percent drop in traffic. And traffic is in everything. As

796
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: everyone in the social media game knows, it's not just

797
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: about how many clicks can you get, It's how much

798
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: engagement and interaction you can get out of the people

799
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: who do come across your stuff. While my friends, I

800
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: have even better news on that front left and right

801
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 1: leaning publishers have seen a more than fifty percent drop

802
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 1: in social media interactions, with mainstream publishers dropping forty two percent.

803
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: This is an all out blog bath happening online as

804
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: people abandon the traditional news more than ever, and the

805
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: cable news situation is even worse. I brought you that

806
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 1: recent study which show that America has the lowest level

807
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: of public trust in the media, and after the Trump Age,

808
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: people are checking them out the door like never before.

809
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: CNN's Jake Tapper, the dean of the American cable news establishment.

810
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: Here in Washington, he's regarded as a must watch, and

811
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: it turns out only by people who actually live in DC.

812
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: His audience is down a whopping seventy five percent since January.

813
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: Let that sink in. As friend of the show, Glenn

814
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: Greenwald points out, the number of viewers that MSNBC and

815
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: CNN are getting is shocking. We are talking about the

816
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: highest show on the weekends, clocking in at sixty thousand

817
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: viewers in the key demographic of eighteen to fifty five.

818
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: At one point they were getting thirty three thousand a night,

819
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: the highest number that MSNBC or CNN can muster on

820
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: the weekends is a total audience of eight hundred and

821
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: sixty five thousand viewers. That is, when they don't talk

822
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: about the news and do a history of late night comedy.

823
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: Don't worry, Fox isn't doing so hot either. Fox News

824
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: primetime programming is down one third for Tucker Carlson's show,

825
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: thirty seven percent for Sean Hannity's show, and forty two

826
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: percent for Laura Ingram I don't think it has sunk

827
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: into the public consciousness yet that partisan media online and

828
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: on cable is collapsing in real time. I don't want

829
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: to pain in a false portrait. They're so incredibly powerful.

830
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: The millions of boomers who watch them are disproportionately more

831
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: likely to vote in primaries, and thus they have way

832
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: more of a say than the rest of us as

833
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: to who will eventually rule us come election time. But

834
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is this, this has to

835
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: break at some point. I have no idea when, probably

836
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: not within the next decade, but at a certain point,

837
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: somebody somewhere has to look around and say, wait a second,

838
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 1: there is nobody watching it. And that's the amazing thing

839
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: to this, I say, great, this is an absolute net

840
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: positive for the country. I'll throw a humble brag in

841
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: for Crystal and I. In the middle of the largest

842
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: drop in partisan media in modern US history, our show

843
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: remains a number one political podcast in the entire country

844
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: on Apple and Spotify. I think I know why. It's

845
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: not just about the lack of partisan cheerleading on this show,

846
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: but also a range of topics we cover. There is

847
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: an insane housing market happening right now. You won't find

848
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,959
Speaker 1: any cable news segments about that. You know why. There's

849
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: no party to blame. It's both of them complicit and

850
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: making sure normal middle class people can't buy a house.

851
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: Unemployment benefits are being cut off, people are resigning in droves.

852
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: The only way the media knows how to cover this

853
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: is either saying GOP or Democrats bad. How about the

854
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: fact that an entire building just collapse in Miami, likely

855
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: killing over one hundred people, same thing. Nothing to say

856
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: if you can't blame Ron DeSantis or Joan Biden over

857
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: and over and over again. The most important stories in

858
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: the country are being ignored because the people who created

859
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: the problems and the conditions for them to happen are

860
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 1: both Democrats and Republicans. If you can take away something

861
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: from this, take this. Whenever cable news is doing well

862
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: in this country, that means the country is doing worse.

863
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: So do your part. Tell people turn them off, and

864
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: put literally anything else on history podcasts, History Channel, lifestyle, woodworking,

865
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: car enthusiasts, anything, Every single one of those is better

866
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: than being gas lit into hating each other. I'm really

867
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: proud of the work we do here every day, and

868
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: I've got a twinkle in my eye watching the people

869
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: I hate most descend into tough times. It's about time

870
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: that they've actually felt some of the pain they have

871
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: caused so many other people. It's pretty amazing. Crystal, I

872
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: mean seventy five percent. One more thing, I promise. Just

873
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure you knew about my podcast with

874
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: Kyle Kolinski. It's called Crystal, Kyle and Friends, where we

875
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: do long form interviews with people like Noam Chomsky, Cornell West,

876
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: and Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any podcast platform,

877
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: or you can subscribe over on substack to get the

878
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: video a day early. We're going to stop bugging you now.

879
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: Enjoy well. This is disturbing. A billionaire GOP donor has

880
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: decided to fund a South Dakota National Guard deployment to

881
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: the southern border. Here is the write up with all

882
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: the details from Military dot Com. The South Dakota National

883
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: Guard is deploying on mission to the US southern border,

884
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: and the operation is being funded by a billionaire, not

885
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: the government. Military dot Com has learned soldiers will serve

886
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: on state active duty orders, meaning that traditionally the state

887
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: would cover the cost of the mission. How in this case,

888
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: the tab is being picked up by the private Tennessee

889
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: based Willis and Reba Johnson's foundation. So apparently the deployment

890
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: is in the early stages of planning. That's about all

891
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: we really know about it, but we don't really need

892
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: to know anymore. This is incredibly disturbing. Now. Look, I

893
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: understand that immigration is a very emotional issue with a

894
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: lot of folks who hold extremely passionate views, but please

895
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: try to put your personal immigration position and emotions aside here.

896
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: Your feelings about what's happening at the border and the

897
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: proper government response really should have zero bearing on how

898
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: you feel about this specific story. There is a principle

899
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: involved here that no one should be cool with, even

900
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: if you are in the camp who fully supports the

901
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: concept of sending the National Guard to the southern border.

902
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: That principle happens to be one of the bedrocks of

903
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: this show. Government power should not be wielded at the

904
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: whims of plutocrats. That goes doubly for the type of

905
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: government power that involves lethal force. Now, whether you are

906
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: left or center, you should not be comfortable with billionaires

907
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: paying for soldiers to do their express bidding. What we're

908
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: contemplating here is frankly a healthscape situation where billionaires first

909
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: opt out of the entire system of taxation, as has

910
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: been documented recently by Pro Publica, since we've gotten a

911
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: little glimpse into the tax avoidant strategies and outright theft

912
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: of our nation's billionaires, and then after avoiding taxation, they

913
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 1: get to a la cartes, chose which pet projects they

914
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: want to fund. They rob government coffers of money for

915
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 1: public goods and then only fund those goods which serve

916
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: their personal interest. Now, maybe this mission would have gone

917
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: forward with or without the billionaire funding. There's no way

918
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: to know, But in that case it would have had

919
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: to be budgeted for in a process. That process that

920
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: the public at least in theory has some democratic say

921
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: over other priorities would have to be weighed instead. South

922
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: Dakota has effectively opened the gates for the rich to

923
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: fund whatever projects for ether their monetary or ideological interest.

924
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: Let's say you need a new school bill, Let's see

925
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 1: if we can get a Hollywood movie to foot the bill.

926
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: Need a new prison or maybe police building, Let's see

927
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: if we can talk to Lockheed Martin's CEO and see

928
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: if they'll fund it. And that's to say nothing of

929
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: what happens when it's time to tax or regulate or

930
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: throw in jail the billionaires. We've been accepting bribes the

931
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: state treasury from. Are you going to tell little Johnny

932
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: his school isn't going to be built because we got

933
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: to lock up mister rich Hollywood mogul for sex crimes?

934
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: How's that going to go? This opens up a path

935
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: to whole of government corruption that is far more direct

936
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: and complete than even our current disgustingly corrupt campaign finance system.

937
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 1: Whether it's Bill Gates taking over public health and farming

938
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 1: for some reason, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk taking over

939
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: for NASA, or this dude jumping in to assert his

940
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: personal immigration priorities. All of this is a complete disaster,

941
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: and it is especially disturbing when there's not even a

942
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 1: fig leaf of an arms leng distance or democratic process.

943
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: It's just pure unchecked power and money and government wielding

944
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: its power on behalf of billionaires, regardless of what the

945
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: public might think. And again, it's even more disturbing when

946
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: it comes to plutocrats funding their own military priorities. So look,

947
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 1: we've been talking here in the wake of Biden's lawless

948
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: bombing of Syria about how war making and use of

949
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: the military is one of the areas of power that

950
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: the founders were most concerned about, and certainly justifiably so.

951
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: To state the most obvious thing, ever, those with an

952
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: ideological monetary or power agenda should not be able to

953
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: use our men and women, or the innocent civilians of

954
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: the world for that matter, as pawns for their personal

955
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: ambitions or preferences. For my conservative brothers and sisters, imagine

956
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: how you feel of Jamie Diamond, fresh off kneeling for

957
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter in front of a bank vault earmarked

958
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars for Robin DiAngelo's anti racist trading

959
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: for all the troops with a free copy of How

960
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: to Be an Anti Racist thrown in? Would you feel

961
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: sanguine about it? Like it's cool billionaires can do what

962
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: they want. Should we let billionaires decide whether BLM or

963
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: stop This deal should be met with National Guard deployments,

964
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: or whether we stay in Afghanistan for another couple decades?

965
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the truth of the matter, of course, is

966
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: that we're already kind of uncomfortably close to that reality.

967
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: The current Secretary of Defense comes directly from the military

968
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: industrial complex, where all his previous friends and colleagues stand

969
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: to benefit from more war's death and chaos. The nihilistic

970
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: means says that billionaires just directly funding deployments is the

971
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: logical next step in our transition to outright, unabashed oligarchy.

972
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 1: But none of us should go quietly towards that fate

973
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 1: or slip into that nihilism that says there's no chance

974
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 1: of fighting back, only an inevitable slide into the abyss.

975
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: And it seems to me like billionaires funding military deployments

976
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: that's a decent place to draw a hard red line.

977
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: We should raise hell about this, and every possible legal

978
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: avenue available to stop it should be pursued. This is

979
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: not a precedent anyone should want set and again, Sager,

980
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: take out of this. How you joining us? Now? We've

981
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: got Ross Barkin. He is the author of the brand

982
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: new book that you should one hundred percent go out

983
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: and get. It is called The Prince Andrew Cuomo Coronavirus

984
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: and the Fall of New York. He is also a

985
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: contributor to the Nation and is our personal resident advisor

986
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: on the insane New York City Mayoral raised. Great to

987
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: see you, ras, good to see you os, great to

988
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: be back in being the first breaking point to repeat test.

989
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: That's right, it's a very special ground just for people

990
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: who haven't been following this closely this week. Last time

991
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: we covered the New York City Mayor's race here just

992
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: after the primary occurred, it looked very much like Eric

993
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: Adams had romped and was headed towards being the next

994
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: mayor of New yorcle though we did say, look, there's

995
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 1: an outside chance either Maya Wiley or Catherine Garcia could

996
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: make up that gap as ranked as the rank choice

997
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: ballots are counted. What has transpired since then, Ross, So

998
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: since then, the Board of Elections in New York City

999
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: has run its first ranked choice voting papulation, and that

1000
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: was not a straightforward process. What happened was it was

1001
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: supposed to be released yesterday and then it was and

1002
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: it turned out the very incompetent Board of Elections included

1003
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: dummy ballots or fake ballots in the taculation, about one

1004
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, so because they'd been testing the system forgot

1005
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: to remove them. So they released a preliminary result yesterday

1006
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: that was not quite correct. They had to withdraw it

1007
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: from the website and then did another tabulation. I should

1008
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: say yesterday we got the correct tabulation. Two days ago

1009
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: we got the incorrect tabulation. Time is flowing in a

1010
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: very odd way these days, so as of now the

1011
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: race has changed. Eric Adams had a very significant lead

1012
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 1: among first place voters, but the rank choice tabulation showed

1013
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: that Captain Garcia is within two points of defeating him.

1014
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: I think the margin is about fifteen thousand votes or so,

1015
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: and they're about one hundred and twenty plus thousand absentee

1016
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: ballons that must still be counted. That will be counted

1017
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: by July sixth as the plan right got it, So

1018
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: we have this New York BOE tweet let's put it

1019
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: up there. I still don't really understand what the hell

1020
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 1: is going on. So one hundred and thirty five thousand

1021
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: votes which were not real votes were included. Is that correct?

1022
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 1: As in they were running in a simulation and then

1023
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: they changed the results. So what are the actual results like?

1024
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 1: Do we have a good idea of where things stand

1025
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: right now? Yes, so we now have the actual results

1026
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: based on everything but absentee ballots. To tell you the truth,

1027
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: the easiest thing would have been done to wait until

1028
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: with the absentee ballots New York date for the law

1029
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: that you can't count absentee ballots until after election day,

1030
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: which is really stupid, but that's the law. So what

1031
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: we really should have been doing is waiting until after

1032
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: those ballots are counter prices. So right now we do

1033
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: have an accurate rank choice simulation of all in person

1034
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: votes basically all in person votes early votes in person

1035
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: and that shows a very tight race between Garcia and Adams,

1036
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: and why we actually came pretty close in the rank

1037
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: choice simulation getting coming out ahead of Garcia. She fell back.

1038
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: So the absentees could change things. I mean, that's the

1039
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: big thing right now. The absentees could give Katherine Garcia

1040
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 1: the Democratic nomination, make her the next mayor. Very possible. Also,

1041
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: this race could go to court if the margin is

1042
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: close enough, could be litigating the ballots at court. There

1043
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: could be a RecA so that may happen as well.

1044
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: And I just want to make it really clear to people.

1045
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: The problem here was not ranked choice voting, okay, which

1046
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a complex system, albeit but

1047
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: plenty of localities have been able to manage this just fine.

1048
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: The problem is with the New York City Board of Elections,

1049
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: which I want to get to in just one minute.

1050
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: But the other question I had on the specifics of

1051
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: the results is there seems to be an expectation that

1052
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: in the what is at one hundred and thirty thousand

1053
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: or so absentee ballots that remain, that there's a good

1054
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: chance Catherine Garcia may have an edge there, that those

1055
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: ballots may be rather good for her. Why is that

1056
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: the expectation, Rawson? Is that correct? I think that is correct.

1057
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: So while war ballots are outstanding from areas that Eric

1058
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: Adams won, eric Adams won a lot more assembly districts

1059
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: and Garcia on election day anyway, and the actual proportion

1060
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: of ballots outstanding is more tilted toward Garcia relative to

1061
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: the election day outcome. Also taken the factor that typically

1062
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: it's more affluent people, older people who are doing absentee balloting,

1063
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: especially now with COVID, and it's pretty possible that Garcia

1064
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: could be winning sixty percent of the remaining absentees. It's

1065
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 1: not a guarantee, it's not anything close to that, but

1066
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: it's not impossible that she could make up this margin

1067
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: when everything gets countled. Got it. Another question for you.

1068
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: You've written that even though Catherine Garcia and Eric Adams

1069
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: they ran on very similar platforms, obviously stylistics they're very different.

1070
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: Why do you think that if you're a progressive and

1071
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: your choices are just Catherine Garcia and Eric Adams, if

1072
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: that ends up in fact being the case, why do

1073
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: you think you should be cheering for Catherine Garcia given

1074
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: that their platform was similar? Sure? So, yes, definitely, Katherine

1075
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: Garcia and Eric Adams ran on very similar platform It's

1076
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: very against the funding the police for carg the school

1077
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: you know stuff, right. I think they're both neoliberal in organization.

1078
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: I'd say the difference is Garcia would be a much

1079
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: weaker mayor in terms of that, she would come into

1080
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: office without any real strong institutional ties, without strong coalitions,

1081
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: you could probably dangle the threat of a primary challenge

1082
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: over her. I think Eric Adams, as a black man,

1083
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: would be very hard to primary just based on how

1084
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: he has gathered up his votes, based on his ties

1085
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: to organized labor. Garcia is different. I also think Garcia

1086
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: would be more amenable to compromise because though she is

1087
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: more conservative than Build A Lasio, she worked at his administration.

1088
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: Many builde Blasio staffers are volunteering and working in our campaign.

1089
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: It's not hard to imagine Garcia actually having being forced

1090
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: to pivot to the left as mayor, especially since many

1091
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: of the people who voted for or voted for her

1092
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: self identify as progressive. She won Liberal Manhattan, she won

1093
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: the Upper West Side. She mentally one people who otherwise

1094
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: would call themselves progressive, you know, would have voted for

1095
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: Bernie Sander or even Elizabeth Warren. So you are going

1096
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: to probably have to adjust to that reality. Whereas Eric

1097
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: Adams is very insulated from pressure. I've been saying this

1098
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: for a long time. He's built a very strong coalition

1099
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: and he's not someone who really has to listen to people.

1100
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: He doesn't necessarily have a history of listening, and he

1101
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,439
Speaker 1: won't be afraid to go after his enemies. Garcia doesn't

1102
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: really have many enemies, have many e vendettas. She fundamentally

1103
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: has a different temperament. So I do think the left

1104
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: she's much more manageable, if that makes sense. And so

1105
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: Ross's final question here on my end, when are we

1106
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: going to know? Like when will we know it about?

1107
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: So right now, election results are set to be certified

1108
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: July twelfth. I think you'll have some idea after July sixth,

1109
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: when absentee ballots are included in the rank choice voting tabulation.

1110
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: But here's the catch. If the margin is very close,

1111
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: I mean very close than a few thousand votes, which

1112
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: everything is on the table right now, this can go

1113
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: to court. It happened a few years ago in the

1114
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: Queen's District attorney's race, if you recall, that had a

1115
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: manual recount that was being litigated, and then a few

1116
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: months later when the Katz was certified the winner over

1117
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: Tiffany Bond. We've never had a mayor's race as close.

1118
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: We've never had a mayor's race enter recount. I still

1119
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: think that is not super likely, but I do think

1120
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: court action outcome here. So on one hand, July twelfth

1121
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: will be the original moment of clarity. On the other hand,

1122
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,919
Speaker 1: if you told me this was in court and we're

1123
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: fighting this out all summer, I would not be shocked.

1124
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: At this point. I've got two more for you. First

1125
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: one is Eric Adams hashim been shy. This is something

1126
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: you've written about too, and weaponizing his race in order

1127
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: to both protect himself from criticism and also to allege

1128
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: there's some sort of like you know, scheme originally between

1129
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: Catherine Garcia and Andrew Yang to disenfranchise black and brown

1130
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: voters in the city. If we do have a situation

1131
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: where Catherine Garcia makes a comeback once the rank choice

1132
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: votes are tabulated, what sort of a stink is he

1133
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: gonna like? What's he going to say, What's he going

1134
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: to do? What are the expectations for how he will respond?

1135
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: Every signing points to Eric Adams denying the outcome or

1136
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: not accepting it if Garcia pulls ahead. Now, some of

1137
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: that is logical. If the race is close enough you

1138
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: do take it to court, that's understandable. But even if

1139
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: I think it's not that close. If Garcia really makes

1140
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: up the difference and absentees and pulls way ahead. Eric

1141
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: Adams is someone who's a deep skeptic of ranked choice voting.

1142
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: Many of his surrogates believe erroneously it just disenfranchises black candidates.

1143
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: Not true. Eric Adams called an alliance between Yang and

1144
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: Garcia voter suppression, which was quite frankly insane. And this

1145
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: is really Eric Adams' playbook. He isn't sendiar. He file

1146
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: people up. He is canny, and he is cynical, and

1147
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: he weaponizes identity, he weaponizes situations. And so it would

1148
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: not surprise me if he is out there trump like

1149
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: not accepting the outcome of an elect Right. I'm not

1150
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: guaranteeing that he could accept it quietly and surprise all

1151
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: of us, or maybe he'll still win. Right, a lot

1152
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: on the table. I do the thing if you really

1153
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: want to get ahead of yourself. Right. If Garcia does

1154
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: manage to win a white woman's beating a black man,

1155
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: Eric Adams will have the power to make her mayoralty

1156
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: very difficult. Particularly want a coalition without and Latino. All right,

1157
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: last question for me, what the hell is wrong with

1158
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,439
Speaker 1: the New York City Board of Elections the New York

1159
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: City Board of Elections, like the State Board of Elections,

1160
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: and like board of elections across the state, one is

1161
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: a state agency and not the city, so New York

1162
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: City itself has no power to really fix or change it.

1163
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: And two, it is controlled by the Republican and Democratic

1164
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: parties in a very old fashioned and bizarre system of

1165
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: patronage that dates back to the Tamney Hall era. So basically,

1166
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: everyone who works the Board of Elections is an appointee

1167
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: of either the local Democratic or Republican parties. They're friends

1168
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: of elected officials, they're friends of district leaders, they're friends

1169
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: of people who are well connected. There's no civil service exam.

1170
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: Your resume doesn't really matter. And that's what happens. When

1171
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,439
Speaker 1: you staff an entire agency with patronage appointees, you get

1172
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: the confidence. And we've seen this over and over and

1173
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: over again. From twenty sixteen Democrats getting accidentally purged from

1174
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: the roles in Brooklyn. You had ballot scanner failures in

1175
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, you had wrong absentee ballots mailed out in

1176
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Andrew Cuomo and the state legislature can fix

1177
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: this they never have. They've never shown a real interest.

1178
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: Cuomo works does not care. But the legislature has to

1179
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: step up too, because it's a constitutional amendment that would

1180
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: actually change this bipartisan, bipartisan patronage structure of the Board

1181
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: of Elections. And or that's a constitutional amendment, it's got

1182
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: to go through the legislature twice, and you don't need

1183
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: the governor's signature. So the leader of the Democratic conferences

1184
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: in all of the ney have also been entirely missing

1185
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: in action. It seems like now this may be the

1186
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: event that precipitates change at the Board of Elections. I've

1187
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: seen this movie before. Perhaps the failure in a mayor

1188
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: rold case will convince politicians to do something that really

1189
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: is a travesty. It's been that way for many years.

1190
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: None of this is new. Yeah yeah, Ross, thank you

1191
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: so much, so great to have your expertise on this.

1192
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: We're really grateful. Thank you, Ross. We appreciate it. Man,

1193
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: all right, thank you guys for watching. We really appreciate it.

1194
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 1: Just a reminder you can become a premium subscriber today.

1195
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,080
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1196
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1197
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1198
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1199
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Speaker 1: lifetime member, you'll get your name in the credit section

1200
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Speaker 1: and on a plaque, which we are dealing with the

1201
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: plack situation Lifetime Members Day June. You're going to get

1202
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: an update today on what exactly the hell is going

1203
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: on there. We love all of you and we will

1204
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: see you all next week. Yeah, we got a little

1205
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: special video coming for our lifetime members with what we

1206
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: think we're going to do in terms of a plaque

1207
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: to make it work on the set with ordered some

1208
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: turns out there's too many and there's too many of you.

1209
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: We're diligently working on that. Listen, guys, we appreciate all

1210
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: of you all so much, whether you're a lifetime member,

1211
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: a premium subscriber, or just someone who's watching the clips

1212
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: on YouTube or picking up the podcast. Actually, the podcast

1213
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: response is kind of wild, kind of blown me away.

1214
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: We didn't really expect that. So thank you, guys. We

1215
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Have a wonderful, wonderful holiday weekend, Stay safe,

1216
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: and we will see you back here. Actually, programming note,

1217
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: we will have programming. Note for you guys, We've got

1218
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: program for you guys. Over the weekend Monday's Federal holiday,

1219
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: we won't be here doing a show. We will be

1220
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: back on Tuesday, full show right here, back on Tuesday,

1221
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: but we will have content spread out Throw of the

1222
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: Week podcast people. If you're listening, that content is going

1223
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: to be up on YouTube, so stay tuned. There you go,

1224
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: all right, guys, enjoy the holiday weekend, Happy forth, and

1225
01:05:55,640 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: we'll see you back here next week. Thanks for listening

1226
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,040
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