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Speaker 1: Welcome to two Percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. Now,

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Speaker 1: when most of us think about the biggest health problems

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Speaker 1: that Americans face, we immediately think about obesity. About seventy

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Speaker 1: percent of the country is either overweight or obese. But

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Speaker 1: today's guest doctor Gabrielle Lyon, who's the founder of muscle

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Speaker 1: centric Medicine. She actually argues the problem is that we

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Speaker 1: don't have enough muscle.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to bring her on.

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Speaker 1: To get into the details of that because it's a

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Speaker 1: somewhat controversial take, but I think she's got a lot

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Speaker 1: of good evidence that points to maybe she's onto something.

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Speaker 2: So we got into the nuance.

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Speaker 1: We talked about where the argument is strongest, where it

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Speaker 1: might miss the mark, if focusing on muscle can actually

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Speaker 1: have some downsides, and how we can use her information

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Speaker 1: to live in a way that helps us while not

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Speaker 1: making a slave to the gym and eating like meatheads.

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Speaker 1: So with all that said, we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and then we are going to bring Gabrielle

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Speaker 1: on a right Well, good Ebrielle, thanks for coming on

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Speaker 1: the show.

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Speaker 3: This is a long time coming.

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Speaker 4: Again, we were just chatting tons of mutual friends and

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Speaker 4: I've been following your work for easily a decade now.

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Speaker 1: Well, likewise, this will be a lot of fun, so

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Speaker 1: I want to get into one of your big arguments.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of this flip where most people aren't overly fat,

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Speaker 1: they're almost undermuscled. So unpack that for us? And why

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Speaker 1: is that a good way to put a lens on health?

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Speaker 4: Well, especially for your audience, who, I would say craves

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Speaker 4: the harder thing. One area where I feel like we

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Speaker 4: don't ask a ton of questions is in the medical sphere.

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Speaker 3: And what do I mean by that?

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Speaker 4: We've all heard common fables like you should wait an

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Speaker 4: hour after you eat before you go swiming. I'm sure

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Speaker 4: that you've heard that, or that you should drink eight

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Speaker 4: glasses of water, or perhaps that you should walk ten

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Speaker 4: thousand steps, or even don't eat eggs because eggs are

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Speaker 4: bad for cholesterol. All of these things are inherited scientific beliefs.

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Speaker 4: Why does that relevant for this idea that we're not

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Speaker 4: over fat but we're under muscled. For the last fifty years,

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Speaker 4: we've been chasing an obesity epidemic. But what if obesity

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Speaker 4: at its root wasn't the problem, but it was a

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Speaker 4: symptom of a different problem, which is unhealthy skeletal muscle.

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Speaker 3: Fifty years.

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Speaker 4: We're attacking the wrong thing, and the quality of our

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Speaker 4: answers are based on the quality of the questions that

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Speaker 4: we ask. And I would argue that again, this might

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Speaker 4: sound you open by saying my argument that this sound

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Speaker 4: might sound controversial, but we don't have an obesity epidemic.

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Speaker 4: And I say that gently. Clearly we do. But what

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Speaker 4: we really have underneath it all is a muscle epidemic,

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Speaker 4: is a low dysfunctional muscle mass epidemic, which is at

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Speaker 4: the root obesity is just a symptom one.

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Speaker 1: Is that then a function of the fact that people

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Speaker 1: are a lot less active and specifically they're not doing

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Speaker 1: strength training, whether that be in the gym or just

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Speaker 1: living in a way that is challenging their muscles. Is

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Speaker 1: that kind of one of the core fundamentals behind it?

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Speaker 1: Or what's your thoughts there?

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Speaker 3: All the above? All the above.

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Speaker 4: So when we think about skeletal muscle health, first of all,

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Speaker 4: what is muscle the way that people think about muscle.

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Speaker 4: We all know that Monday's Universal chest Day, and maybe

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Speaker 4: Friday is Universal leg day.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but that's you were at men's health for.

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Speaker 4: A long time at one sector, and the major overarching

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Speaker 4: thought about skeletal muscle is that it's good for performance.

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Speaker 3: That's great, but that's.

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Speaker 4: Only one small attribute of skeletal muscle, which is surprising

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Speaker 4: for some people.

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Speaker 3: Performance is in one bucket.

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Speaker 4: But when we think about obesity, Alzheimer's, which is type

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Speaker 4: three diabetes of the brain, hypertension, cardiovascular disease, these are diseases,

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Speaker 4: metabolic diseases. Over time, they get their roots in skeletal muscle.

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Speaker 4: First purely because our diet is mismatched to our muscle health.

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Speaker 4: And if you are eating and not training for muscle health,

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Speaker 4: and you're consuming a standard American diet, then the downstream

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Speaker 4: effect is all these other metabolic components like elevated treglyscerides,

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Speaker 4: like elevated blood sugar, like hypertension, all of the things

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Speaker 4: that we think about when we think about metabolic syndrome

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Speaker 4: as being relating to obesity, is actually a muscle problem.

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Speaker 4: And you know what, where did this start? Why did

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Speaker 4: it happen? Well, there's two overarching ways in which we

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Speaker 4: stimulate muscle. One is through activity, and we know that

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Speaker 4: seventy four percent of Americans are either overweight or obies.

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Speaker 3: I want to pause there.

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Speaker 4: Seventy four percent of our population, three out of four

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Speaker 4: people is either overweight or obees.

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Speaker 2: It's a number.

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Speaker 4: And our children, what about our children, for the dads

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Speaker 4: out there, for the moms out there, our children growing

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Speaker 4: up with unhealthy muscle, their probability of having some kind

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Speaker 4: of comorbidity is exponential.

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Speaker 3: It's easily fifty percent.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy, is there? So?

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Speaker 1: Is there an ideal amount of muscle that you want

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Speaker 1: to see in people?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 2: How does? How does?

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Speaker 1: Because you did say, yes, there is an obesity epidemic,

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Speaker 1: we probably have too much fat. But then this underlying

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Speaker 1: thing is, yeah, but we don't have enough muscle. So

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Speaker 1: what's the balance there? And what do you want to

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Speaker 1: see out of people?

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Speaker 4: This is a great question, and I really appreciate you

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Speaker 4: asking it. You've probably heard that we are roughly forty

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Speaker 4: percent of our body weight to skeletal muscle.

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Speaker 3: Is that a good number?

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Speaker 4: I think that it's currently the average for women it's

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Speaker 4: about thirty percent.

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Speaker 3: There's two things here.

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Speaker 4: I would say the more muscle mass you have, the better,

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Speaker 4: And it's crazy that we don't have an optimal number

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Speaker 4: for what that should be. But we do know when

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Speaker 4: there is a problem, because a problem is called either

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Speaker 4: sycopaenia or wasting or cockexia, which is too little muscle mass.

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Speaker 4: In fact, that's one reason why people die cancer. Cockexia

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Speaker 4: is a overall loss of muscle and body So the number,

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Speaker 4: I would say number one to give you a straight answer,

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Speaker 4: the higher the better minimum of forty percent of your

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Speaker 4: body weight. But also the next reality is that it

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Speaker 4: should be healthy skeletal muscle. And people say, well, what's

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Speaker 4: the difference. Why do you keep saying skeletal muscle. Well,

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Speaker 4: there's smooth muscle like say in the uterus, and then

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Speaker 4: there is cardiov there's cardiac muscle, and then skeletal muscle.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever had a wagu steak?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I have, not too often, but every now and then.

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Speaker 3: So you've had a wagu steak.

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Speaker 4: A wagu steak that's fat that infiltrates into muscle that

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Speaker 4: is essentially unhealthy, weaker muscle. And when we are inactive

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Speaker 4: and not training, it's not just about the wag you steak,

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Speaker 4: it's what happens within the human.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so is this why?

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Speaker 1: So someone could listen to this and argue but and say, well,

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Speaker 1: don't people who are overweight have more muscle because they're

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Speaker 1: carrying around more of themselves? And then the counterpoint is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but what is the quality of that muscle? Is that

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Speaker 1: kind of what how you would argue that.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 4: And that's why our trainers out there and our people

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Speaker 4: that are attacking muscle health. That's where the real transformation

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Speaker 4: in our healthcare is going to be is recognizing muscle

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Speaker 4: as an organ system not just for performance. Because you know, Michael,

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Speaker 4: you and I are in the world of get after it.

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Speaker 4: This is about performance, and so muscle health really isn't

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Speaker 4: a problem. Yeah, but as we think about you know,

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Speaker 4: you wrote the comfort crisis, and as you think about

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Speaker 4: doing harder things, the focal point of that is skeletal

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Speaker 4: muscle and the lever that you pull to become mentally stronger,

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Speaker 4: the lever that you pull to manage your environment comes

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Speaker 4: from the voluntary control and asking the contraction of that muscle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. So I have a question. You said,

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Speaker 1: you can't have too much muscle.

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Speaker 3: I'm still trying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, but alsay, from my own experience, I've always been

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Speaker 1: generally lean. When I get past say one hundred and

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Speaker 1: ninety pounds, I'm six y' one, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't move as well.

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Speaker 1: I start to get like a little bit more joint

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Speaker 1: pain because I do a lot of trail running all

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Speaker 1: these things. So is that more just a problem once

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Speaker 1: you get into these sort of high performance people or like,

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Speaker 1: how do you square that question?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 4: I would say that I have very rarely ever had

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Speaker 4: someone say I have too much muscle. There is if

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Speaker 4: someone is attacking their endeavors naturally, right, there is this

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Speaker 4: threshold for how much muscle mass someone could put on

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Speaker 4: that I haven't actually seen them get too much muscle now,

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Speaker 4: I want to say from a metabolic perspective, yeah, meaning

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Speaker 4: as a so I'm still a practicing physician, So in

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Speaker 4: my medical clinic strong medical, we always measure muscle mass.

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Speaker 4: Here is where your statement becomes relevant is for I

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Speaker 4: think that you recently did it was some eight hundred

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Speaker 4: miles something crazy?

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Speaker 3: You did some So what did you train for very long?

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Speaker 2: We'll keep it shure its a very long hike.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So you so you trained for a very long

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Speaker 4: hike for that particular endeavor. Muscle and wheight might be

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Speaker 4: a challenge. You know, I think about my husband. My

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Speaker 4: husband did the Boston Marathon. He's two hundred and twenty pounds,

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Speaker 4: maybe two hundred and thirty pounds. He did the Boston

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Speaker 4: Marathon and then he did back to back big sir. Okay,

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Speaker 4: he would probably run faster if he wasn't so heavy.

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Speaker 4: So for that, for particular sport, that might be a negative.

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Speaker 4: But from a outcome perspective of health, don't we don't

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Speaker 4: see that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of like, yes, but the average person,

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Speaker 1: if you're just focused on the lever of health, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about this. And you and you

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Speaker 1: did say that, like you kind of hinted that, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe a person could have too much, but that would

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Speaker 1: probably come from using performance enhancing drugs. And then we're

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Speaker 1: in a completely other universe where you know, we're not

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Speaker 1: really chasing health anymore.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's I would say, it's the equivalent of

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Speaker 4: could someone be too smart? You would say, well, no,

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Speaker 4: but they could be too smart for their own good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. So you

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Speaker 1: you came up through geriatrics, is that right? Like studying

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Speaker 1: older population.

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Speaker 4: I have a somewhat of a unique training, and I

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Speaker 4: trained in nutritional sciences for professionally six years. So I

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Speaker 4: did my undergraduate nutritional sciences and then I went to

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Speaker 4: medical school, and then I did two years of psychiatry,

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Speaker 4: three years of family medicine, and then I went back

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Speaker 4: to do a fellowship at WashU in geriatrics and nutritional sciences.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is that did you see this play out a

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Speaker 1: lot among older people, especially as their age and sort

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Speaker 1: of lost some of that muscle.

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Speaker 4: I actually saw it throughout my entire career. I saw

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Speaker 4: it when I was in medical school. I saw it

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Speaker 4: when I was in my two years at the University

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Speaker 4: of Louisville in psychiatry, and I there isn't a time

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Speaker 4: where I didn't see it.

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Speaker 3: And what is it that I didn't see?

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Speaker 4: I saw the mature alority of people inactive setting an

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Speaker 4: example for their families and their communities that was really

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Speaker 4: less than ideal, and constantly going through this gain and

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Speaker 4: loss of the same twenty pounds.

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Speaker 3: So that's something that I did see.

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Speaker 4: And then in geriatrics, I would say that it really

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Speaker 4: scarred me.

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Speaker 3: And what do I mean by that? Probably?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're probably thinking, is this girl kidding. She went

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Speaker 4: into medicine. She knows what she signed up for. I

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Speaker 4: didn't willingly study geriatrics. And for those who are listening,

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Speaker 4: geriatrics is the study of sixty five years and older.

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Speaker 4: It is also an end of life, so sixty five

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Speaker 4: and up, and part of that training is end of

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Speaker 4: life care.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't prepared for that.

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Speaker 4: I did it because I wanted to continue studying nutritional

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Speaker 4: sciences and vitamin mineral metabolism and body composition. But the

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Speaker 4: deal was in order for me to do research as

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Speaker 4: a physici, I had to continue training, doing a fellowship

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Speaker 4: in medical education. I spent two years at the bedside

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Speaker 4: of people that knew that they were at the end,

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Speaker 4: and that's very powerful.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if.

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Speaker 4: You've ever been at the bedside of a non family

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Speaker 4: member who is ready to take their last breath.

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it's definitely very heavy, also very powerful.

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Speaker 4: And there's a moment where there's nothing for you to do,

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Speaker 4: there's no right words, there's no way to fix it.

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Speaker 4: We're not solving this problem. This is it essentially the end,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I pause because it's very it's emotional.

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Speaker 4: I was also doing research on body composition and brain function.

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Speaker 4: And part of that was a study, and this study

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Speaker 4: is looking at middle aged women and their body composition

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Speaker 4: and what their brain function looked like. Of geriatrics, we

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Speaker 4: run a memory and aging clinic. You look at imaging

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Speaker 4: of the brain, and we were looking at fMRIs of

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Speaker 4: these participants. In this woman who is just incredibly boisterous

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Speaker 4: and a mother of three, I imaged her brain and

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Speaker 4: her brain looked like the beginning of an Alzheimer's brain.

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Speaker 4: And after rounding on the weekends nursing homes, assisted living,

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Speaker 4: impatient care, I knew what was in store for her.

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Speaker 3: And I.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't sit by and do nothing, but essentially I was

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Speaker 4: forced to. And she had always followed the advice that

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Speaker 4: you and I often hear, which is eat less and

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Speaker 4: move more. And she was so focused on this obesity

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Speaker 4: challenge that she never spent time prioritizing muscle, which was

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Speaker 4: the one thing that it was going to save her.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not just talking about from a mobility standpoint,

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Speaker 4: but really from a metabolic functioning, brain health standpoint. And

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Speaker 4: many of the people that I saw at the end

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Speaker 4: of their life, they had either fallen they'd broken a hip,

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Speaker 4: and I had this flash of insight. And part of

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Speaker 4: medical insight comes when you least expect it, when you've

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Speaker 4: spent years thinking about these problems, getting a base level

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Speaker 4: of training, and I I just had this flash of

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Speaker 4: insight that we were looking at the wrong problem and

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Speaker 4: that this wasn't an obesity problem, but this was a

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Speaker 4: muscle problem. And that's really where this concept of muscle

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Speaker 4: centric medicine came from.

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Speaker 1: Did you so with a patient like that, are you

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Speaker 1: able to start an intervention? You're like, all right, we

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Speaker 1: got to focus on your on your muscle and did

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Speaker 1: and did that help? And then sort of the overarching

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Speaker 1: question for listeners is if you're over sixty sixty five,

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Speaker 1: is it too late to start or can people in

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Speaker 1: that age group actually build and improve their muscle because

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times you hear, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: you're kind of too far gone. You don't actually build

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Speaker 1: that much muscle after your age sixty sixty five whatever.

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Speaker 4: The best time to start is now or before, but

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Speaker 4: the second best time to start is now.

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Speaker 3: It's never too late. People are never too old.

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Speaker 4: But the one thing that gets in their way is

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Speaker 4: they're not able to collapse timeframes. People will say I'll

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Speaker 4: start on Monday, I'll start next week, or I just

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Speaker 4: can't get myself to do it. And it seems innocent,

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Speaker 4: especially in midlife when you are capable. But what I

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Speaker 4: will tell you is at the end of people's lives,

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Speaker 4: they don't talk about the illness. They talk about the

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Speaker 4: regrets in the way that they wish they had lived,

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Speaker 4: and it's very powerful. It's kind of like, and this

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Speaker 4: is a much more toned down version. In high school,

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Speaker 4: we all fall in love for the first time. It's

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Speaker 4: the worst thing ever if it doesn't go well, which

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Speaker 4: I mean the reality is is probably not going to

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Speaker 4: go well.

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Speaker 3: Spend all this time consumed. It's just a total mess.

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Speaker 4: And then you fall in love again, maybe in college,

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Speaker 4: and that's also terrible. As you fall in love subsequently. Listen,

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Speaker 4: I'm not talking about the people that have been married

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Speaker 4: forty years, but as we mature as adults, by the

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Speaker 4: fifth time you're dating someone new, you're probably a little

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Speaker 4: more like, Okay, this is what I can expect. And

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Speaker 4: when you look back on that high school romance, you go, gosh,

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Speaker 4: that was so major and it probably didn't have to

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Speaker 4: be so intense. And the same thing from a physical perspective.

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Speaker 4: One day you wake up at forty and your joints

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Speaker 4: kind of hurt, and it's a new thing, and it

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Speaker 4: never happened before, and so you really didn't think so

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Speaker 4: much about it. And the reality is people can always

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Speaker 4: do something about it, but the one thing that gets

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Speaker 4: in their way is their inability to connect their future

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Speaker 4: self to their current self. And I will just say

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Speaker 4: this as a practicing physician. When women come to the

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Speaker 4: practice Strong Medical, they say, well, I've never lifted weights

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Speaker 4: or I can't do that. But the reality is that

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Speaker 4: backpack that you're carrying, that toddler, you're picking up that dog,

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Speaker 4: those groceries, You've been lifting weights your whole life. You

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Speaker 4: just might not have put the verbiage to it.

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Speaker 3: And structure.

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Speaker 2: That's such a great point.

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Speaker 1: When people come to you and they're new to all this,

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Speaker 1: where do you have them start and then where do

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Speaker 1: you want them to end? Are you putting them on

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Speaker 1: like the ideal program at first or are we going

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Speaker 1: to like walk people into this.

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Speaker 4: Well, for my patients personally, they're really self selected.

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Speaker 3: So there's two types of patients that come to me.

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Speaker 4: They are the kind of patient that has tried everything

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Speaker 4: and nothing has worked. I don't think that you know

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Speaker 4: this about me, but I started my career very early

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Speaker 4: on serving military operators and doing a lot of performance

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Speaker 4: based stuff. But I'm not talking about this stuff of Okay,

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Speaker 4: I just want to carry more weight. It's I've been

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Speaker 4: deployed to multiple different locations. I'm still having GI issues.

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Speaker 4: I can't sleep, I'm getting weird rashes. So we solve

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Speaker 4: a ton of different challenges. That I mean, the average

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Speaker 4: number of providers our patients have been to before they

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Speaker 4: get to us as around twelve. So we solve complex

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Speaker 4: problems and treat people. The other group of individuals that

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Speaker 4: come to me are people that have really tried everything

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Speaker 4: and they are just wanting to get better. They want

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Speaker 4: they feel good, but they want to be the best

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Speaker 4: version of themselves. And so it's a complex patient. We

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Speaker 4: deal with whatever the challenge is. Is it environmental exposures,

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Speaker 4: is it lime disease, is it even alpha gel syndrome?

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Speaker 3: Is having it come back?

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Speaker 4: I remember my first case of that, which is this

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Speaker 4: lone star tick bite ten years ago.

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Speaker 3: I saw it.

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Speaker 4: You kind of have to unravel all of those things,

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Speaker 4: but you do it quickly because you ask the right questions.

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Speaker 4: And then the other group is, you know, we go

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Speaker 4: all in. If you are looking to become the better

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Speaker 4: version of yourself, then it really is getting very closely

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Speaker 4: connected to that why and being very truthful with yourself.

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Speaker 4: What are the things that you are doing? What are

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Speaker 4: the things that you are not doing? Because there is

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Speaker 4: a group of people that it's not that they need

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Speaker 4: to do more, it's that they need to really connect

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Speaker 4: by doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: If someone's just thinking about this from a health perspective,

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Speaker 1: average person, how often do you want them strength training?

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Speaker 3: Three days a week, three days week, three to four

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Speaker 3: days a week.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Since we were talking about this guy's kind of psychology

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Speaker 1: as well. Your new book, it opens with how to

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Speaker 1: think before it ever gets into the eating and the training.

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Speaker 2: Why'd you start there?

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to make a guess and say that

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Speaker 1: the psychiatry background might have played a role there.

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Speaker 4: Well, muscle is the only lever that you really have

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Speaker 4: conscious control over, but you have to make the decision

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Speaker 4: to execute on it, and how to think if you

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Speaker 4: don't get really clear on your why. And people see

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Speaker 4: that all the time. But Michael, you know, when things

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Speaker 4: are really tough, the more superficial your why is, the

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Speaker 4: less connected to it, the more likely you.

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Speaker 3: Are to fallow off track.

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Speaker 4: And people they need to understand that and they need

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Speaker 4: to stop being surprised by their own human nature. For example,

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Speaker 4: in the book, we talk about creating friction, which I

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Speaker 4: would say, nobody does this better than you. I've read

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Speaker 4: your book and the one thing I noticed, I will

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Speaker 4: say this is that there's not a lot of women.

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Speaker 3: Don't. I don't know if I recall any women in

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Speaker 3: your book.

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Speaker 2: There's a handful.

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Speaker 1: There was a few chapters held down by like the

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Speaker 1: nature chapters held down by a woman. The chapter on

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00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 1: gut health was held held down by a woman. So

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Speaker 1: there's a few, but it's probably it's probably male heavy

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Speaker 1: well for.

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Speaker 4: The comfort crisis and as I and the reason I

408
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Speaker 4: say this is because how can we shift that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how can we.

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Speaker 4: Help people remember that their inherent human nature is one

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Speaker 4: of strength? And for me personally, as I wrote the

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Speaker 4: Forever Strong Playbook, which I'm actually working on my third book.

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Speaker 4: It's not going to be out for another year and

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Speaker 4: a half, it's the Forever Strong Woman.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 3: I love it because we.

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Speaker 4: Have to be able to lean into the fact that

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Speaker 4: if we create friction, and this is actually one of

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Speaker 4: the tools that I give to a lot of the

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Speaker 4: high performers, is that if you add in low levels

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Speaker 4: of friction, and there's a million different ways to do it,

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Speaker 4: whether it's environmental friction, whether it's social friction, whether it's

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Speaker 4: emotional friction, that you become better at dealing with those challenges.

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Speaker 4: And so, something really simple that any listener could do,

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Speaker 4: which I would love to see them do. A listener

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Speaker 4: or viewer to do is flip a coin. Heads you

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Speaker 4: get the Starbucks tails.

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Speaker 3: You don't.

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Speaker 4: If you are someone who loves loud so I train

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Speaker 4: with loud music, loud music, lots of caffeine, I'm all

431
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 4: in all the time. Heads, I get it, Tails, I don't.

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Speaker 4: It is so desperately annoying, and it's kind of it

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Speaker 4: just deflates you a little bit that you can you imagine.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you train with loud music, but

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Speaker 4: for those that do, it's a total buzzkill. And what

436
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 4: happens is the fifth time that that coin flip sucked

437
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 4: for you, you're like, okay.

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Speaker 2: I've done that. Sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a good argument that if you need

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Speaker 1: some ancillary thing to do another thing that almost makes

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Speaker 1: you more fragile, because if you're so like I can't

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Speaker 1: train without my music but then the phone dies, are

443
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: you just not going to exercise? And then that that

444
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: kind of gives you this door out. Whereas if you

445
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: can learn to do that, well, now you stripped away

446
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: all these prerequisites I need in order to do this

447
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: thing that's fundamentally going to be good for me.

448
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 4: And I think that's right, and it's one of the

449
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 4: things that I really appreciate about your work is always

450
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 4: striving and putting people in a position to reframe that experience.

451
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, one of.

452
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 4: The biggest health crisis that we have is this crisis

453
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 4: of distraction. People are very distracted and so they're not

454
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 4: able to do the next right thing. And so the

455
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 4: forever strong playbook is we eliminate that you don't have time.

456
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 4: And I just and I think back to these elderly patients.

457
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: We think we have.

458
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 4: Time to be distracted, Yeah, but we don't. And that

459
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,239
Speaker 4: compounds those small decisions. Not only do they erode our

460
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 4: self confidence because we all quote know what the right

461
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: thing to do is, but it undermines our ability to

462
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 4: show up and be present and be able to bring

463
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,360
Speaker 4: our best work forward, which I think is really critical.

464
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 4: So people need to train three to four days a week,

465
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: and they need to understand that after a big event,

466
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 4: they're not going to feel like training, And every time

467
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 4: they make that decision that it is optional, they make

468
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 4: a decision that's not in favor of their health. You know,

469
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 4: for me, I've been training my entire life. When I

470
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 4: say my entire life, I don't know, for the last

471
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: thirty years. Every Sunday night, I start bitching about Monday's workouts.

472
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: Awesome.

473
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 4: I mean, listen, so it's Wednesday, I'm already bitching about

474
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 4: Friday morning's workout, and I really go through this litany

475
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 4: of Okay, am I going to show up? I'm probably

476
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 4: not going to show up, and I probably spend fifteen

477
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 4: minutes negotiating with myself and I always show up.

478
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: Awesome.

479
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 4: It can do whatever it wants, but you still have

480
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 4: to execute on the thing.

481
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: So I feel like that kind of brings us back

482
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: to the whole question of why. And you mentioned that

483
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: a lot of times people have superficial wise, So to me,

484
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: a good example might be, hey, I'm growing on a

485
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: cruise in a month, so I need to get my

486
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: life together, and you do, but only for the cruise

487
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: and then when the cruise is over, well where do

488
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: you go from there? So, like, what's a good example

489
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: of whys that you've seen and the people that you

490
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: work with that you're like, that's a solid one that's

491
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: going to help you in the long run.

492
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: I'll why don't I share my husband's why?

493
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: Love it?

494
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: So?

495
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 4: My husband was in the seal teams for ten years

496
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 4: as a medic, and he was deployed. You went to

497
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 4: war handful of times, and as a medic, if a

498
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 4: guy gets blown up, he was one of the guys

499
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 4: that they would send in. And he has taken care

500
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 4: of a handful of guys that stepped on an ied

501
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 4: and were essentially castrated. Jeez, they send him in, he stabilizes,

502
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: they help get him out, and he couldn't do any thing.

503
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: There was no recovering.

504
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 4: This, this experience, this limb for the guy, the fertility

505
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 4: so that he could never have a family. There was

506
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: nothing that he could do right now, he works one

507
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 4: hundred hours a week, which is insane.

508
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: I'm depending on the week. It sucks.

509
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 4: I've never heard him complain and he's training in urology

510
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 4: so that when the next guy comes around.

511
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 3: He can help them.

512
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

513
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 4: Have a family have optimal hormonal health. And so when

514
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 4: you think about a why and example, do you think

515
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 4: that if he had a horrible week or the nurses

516
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 4: did X, Y and Z, do you think even for

517
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 4: a one second, he would be like, Ah, screw it,

518
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to quit.

519
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's the why isn't necessarily about him. It's

520
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 1: about helping other people. And I feel like even at

521
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: a practical level, for people, it might be my why

522
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: is that I want to be able to do X,

523
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: Y Z with my kids when I'm sixty and so

524
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: it's like I need to show up for them, you know.

525
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 4: But that is that to me in my experience, it's

526
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: not enough for people. Oh really, because it's not enough

527
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 4: for people, because how many people do we know personally

528
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 4: that everybody wants to be around for their kids. Everybody

529
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 4: wants to not be a burden to their family. It

530
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 4: has to take something real, visceral to be able to

531
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 4: be able to move the need I am talking about

532
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 4: so visceral, like remembering when your grandmother died of Alzheimer's

533
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 4: at her bedside, knowing that you also carry the APO

534
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 4: E four gene. You know, again, how do we help people?

535
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: How do we have them listen to this conversation and

536
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 4: go you know what, whatever I thought I.

537
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 3: Was thinking is my why. The faster it is to

538
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 3: come up with your why, the more I would say, you.

539
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: Have to go back. You got to think about this

540
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: for a while.

541
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 4: Go back and go deeper, because ultimately, I think that

542
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 4: we are at a precipice where we can build stronger,

543
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: more resilient humans. But the only way that we're ever

544
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 4: going to do it is if we do it at

545
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 4: a very visceral, foundational level, one that is so deep

546
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 4: that it becomes an absolute necessity.

547
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: After a break, we're going to talk about the downsides

548
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,239
Speaker 1: of the insane protein craze right now and how I

549
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: experienced it at a waffle house outside of Nashville.

550
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: All right, Nutrition cover this in the book.

551
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: If someone were to change one thing about how they eat,

552
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: where would you push them.

553
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Typically I would have them increase

554
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 4: their protein. I say this cautiously because there's a proteinification

555
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 4: of the world where now you can have your Starbucks

556
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 4: and then there's added protein, and so I would say,

557
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 4: you know, whole foods are best, but everyone already knows that.

558
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 4: But the reality is, if we talk numbers, the Dietary

559
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 4: Guidelines came out and they've now for the first time

560
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 4: ever increased their protein recommendation to one point two to

561
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 4: one point six grams per kg.

562
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 2: For people.

563
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: Point eight grams.

564
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 4: Was the RDA and is still the RDA. Point eight

565
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 4: grams per kg is still the RDA, but the recommendation

566
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 4: now there is a very specific recommendation to increase dietary

567
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: protein to one point two to one point six grams

568
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: per kg. You know, and surprisingly this is a very

569
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 4: controversial topic, but the reality is, the way our nutrition

570
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 4: is set up, it's to prevent deficiencies, and nobody wants

571
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: to prevent deficiencies. If you're looking to be the best

572
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 4: version of yourself. It's great if you're the best version

573
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: of yourself mentally, but the mind and body are intrinsically connected.

574
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 4: And then the other thing, which is if you're eating

575
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 4: close to a gram per pound of your target body weight,

576
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 4: which for many people they think that that's a lot.

577
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 3: There's ways to do it.

578
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 4: By the way, as I'm thinking about it, which would

579
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 4: be really easy for your listeners. Yes, there's we Yeah,

580
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: so there's ways to improve this Because I'm thinking about

581
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 4: you as i'm talking about this.

582
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: You're six did you say six to two?

583
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: Six to one? I won't lie in this situation. I

584
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: will shave off that inch, So.

585
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.

586
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 4: So for someone who's six to one and you're doing

587
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 4: all this work, the idea that let's say, if you're

588
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 4: two hundred pounds or whatever you are, you're moving around

589
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: a lot, you're doing a lot of things. You're not

590
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 4: thinking about eating two hundred grounds of protein, and especially

591
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 4: with the use of GLP one, for both men and women,

592
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 4: the idea of hitting close to one ground per pound.

593
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: Of target body weight is a lot.

594
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 4: So if you have a female listener and she's like, well,

595
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 4: I'm one hundred and thirty pounds.

596
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: I like that weight.

597
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: I want to age well and optimize my aging. I'm

598
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 4: going to shoot for one hundred and thirty gramds of

599
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: protein a day. She's probably thinking there's no friggin way, right.

600
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 4: The average female consumes maybe seventy five grams of protein today,

601
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 4: so there.

602
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 3: Is a huge delta. And so if I were to

603
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 3: lay it out. Here's how I would do it.

604
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 4: The first meal and the last meal of high quality

605
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 4: protein is critical. Nearly all studies are done on that

606
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 4: first meal. It is so important for stimulating muscle, and

607
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 4: it can't be below.

608
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: A particular threshold.

609
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 4: So to simplify, you need between thirty and fifty grams

610
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: of protein at one time, especially through aging. So if

611
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: you're under twenty five, if you're under thirty five, disregardless, okay, disregardless,

612
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 4: But if you are thirty five plus, try this one

613
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: thing and let's see what happens. Thirty to fifty grounds

614
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 4: of protein at that first meal. Muscle is in a

615
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: catabolic resting state. You stimulate it, you put the fuel

616
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 4: on it two ways, resistance training and dietary protein. That

617
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 4: first meal could be a protein shake, which again a

618
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 4: protein shake might have depending on how you do it,

619
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 4: eighteen twenty grounds of protein. Maybe you have eggs, but

620
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 4: you would need six eggs if you want to hit

621
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: that threshold, which is a lot. I don't have a

622
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: huge appetite in the morning. Or what you could do

623
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 4: is you could have a smaller amount of protein that

624
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: you ingest.

625
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: So for me, I have Greek yogurt.

626
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 4: And then you use essential amino acids to bump up

627
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 4: that nutrient density. And I personally think that this is

628
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 4: the way of the future, especially with decreasing appetite.

629
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, like in the GLP one context, decreasing appetite.

630
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 4: Also, the evidence suggests, and I've seen this in my

631
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: own clinic, and I've seen this in eaching, is that

632
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 4: people's appetite goes down over time. And so I'd love

633
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 4: to share if I can. I'd love to share the

634
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 4: company I use and how I do it specifically itsuls

635
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 4: for the listeners. So for me, I have two little kids.

636
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 4: I have a five and a six year old. Mornings

637
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: are bananas. I train in the morning and then I

638
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 4: take them to school or I take them to camp.

639
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: What I do is I will have a Greek yogurt

640
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 4: and I use low fat because I just like it

641
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 4: a low fat Greek yogurt, and then I use two

642
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 4: scoops of something called perfect amino, which is by body

643
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: health it's essential amino acid. I use two packs. I

644
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 4: put it in a separate drink. I have my yogurt,

645
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: so I'm only having to eat half a cup of yogurt,

646
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 4: and I hit that threshold. My body composition has never

647
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 4: been better because I'm able to hit that target.

648
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: So what I used to do is I used to

649
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 3: be like.

650
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 4: I'm not hungry, I'll force myself to have one egg

651
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 4: even though I trained really hard, and then I'll wait

652
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: and I'll continue my day and I miss that first window.

653
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 4: But if people can get that first meal right, and

654
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 4: it can be whole foods, it could be a protein shake,

655
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 4: or it could be a combination of essential amino acids,

656
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: because that's what's critical for muscle health. You can't just

657
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 4: have the branch chain amino acids. You can't just have

658
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 4: the bodybuilding style.

659
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: You're not going to have all the net tree that

660
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: you need.

661
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: If people could make that one change, and we have

662
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 4: seen this in the literature, by improving nutrient density with

663
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 4: protein at that first meal, body composition improves.

664
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: That's great, and I feel like it's you. Sort of

665
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: the overarching message to me is you're getting the numbers

666
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: you want that help you, but you found a way

667
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: that fits into your life. Well, right, It's like there's

668
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: not any specific magic food. The only thing that makes

669
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: a food magic is does it hit these numbers? And

670
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: will I actually eat this thing that's that's very big

671
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: for people Like my mom is in her seventies and

672
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: she's trying to get more protein and she found that

673
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of like ready to drink things from Costco.

674
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: She's tried those that just kind of gets her enough

675
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be super filling because her

676
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: appetite isn't that big.

677
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: Exactly.

678
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 4: I would love for you to send me that because

679
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 4: let's take a look at what she's having, because right

680
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 4: now she has to get that right. So if you're

681
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 4: thirty five, you know, do you have some wiggle rooms?

682
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: You do?

683
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: But I know for me, I also had to find solutions.

684
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 4: And everybody listening to this most of the time people

685
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 4: are busy in the morning and they're thinking about their

686
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 4: macros overall. And while that's really helpful if you set

687
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 4: up that first meal and there's so Heather lightly, I

688
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 4: have a podcast. I just interviewed the two people that

689
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 4: wrote the protein portion of the Dietary Guidelines. So my

690
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 4: book actually reflects the new Dietary Guidelines. My mentor helped

691
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 4: write them, and it's just very exciting and he's a

692
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 4: career scientist. And so when they were on our show,

693
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 4: we were talking about. Okay, so this is great in

694
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 4: an ideal world, you're preparing your food and you're having

695
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 4: your perfect meal. That's regenitive in nature. But the reality

696
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 4: is we are busy. People don't have huge appetites, and

697
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 4: it's how do we go through aging well and how

698
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 4: do we optimize our muscle for that time and real

699
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 4: Your mom is a great example, and also for me

700
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 4: and just for so many people. They don't get that

701
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: first real meal right. They have a big steak dinner

702
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 4: and maybe they have some potatoes, and maybe on paper

703
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 4: they hit.

704
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 3: Their total protein goal.

705
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: But the data shows, and this is again out of

706
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 4: Heather Lighty's lab, is that when you get that thirty

707
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 4: to fifty grams in the morning at that first meal

708
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 4: with the right amino acids, you're less likely to crave

709
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 4: food ninety minutes later. Your less your brain doesn't even

710
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 4: light up the same way when you look at a cupcake.

711
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 4: So you augment your willpower by getting that first meal right.

712
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 4: And that's just a very practical tip for people because

713
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 4: there is so much noise out there. Nail the first meal.

714
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 4: You can regulate your blood sugar, you regulate your appetite

715
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 4: and also, just from a number's perspective, when your blood

716
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 4: sugar goes up and goes down, you really stress hormones

717
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 4: because you have to compensate for the decrease in blood sugar.

718
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: I really like that you use the word protein infectation.

719
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you store here. So I was

720
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: in a Nashville area recently, and I went to a

721
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: waffle house, because when you're in the South, you might

722
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: as well try and give yourself diabetes. So I sit down,

723
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: I order waffles, of course eggs. But as I'm looking

724
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: at the menu, I noticed that there is a protein bowl.

725
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 2: It's got fifty.

726
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: Three grams of protein. Big advertisement. But when I look

727
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: at what actually went into making this thing, it's a

728
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: ton of eggs. It is a ton of cheese, it's

729
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: a ton of sausage. And this whole thing had like

730
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: a thousand calories. So with this protein craze, I have

731
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: two worries, and I want to hear your feedback on them.

732
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: One is that when people try to bump up their protein,

733
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: they often end up eating way too many calories, which

734
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: could drive up their weight and could lead to some

735
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 1: bad health outcomes. The second is that if you're eating

736
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: more protein.

737
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 2: What are you not eating?

738
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: And when you look at what the actual everyday person

739
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: doesn't eat, it tends to be fruits and vegetables. So

740
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: I think only one in ten America meat the fruit

741
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: and vegetable recommendations. So, long way of asking you, are

742
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: you worried at all about that? Does that sort of

743
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: thoughtom my have in my head have any merit? And

744
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: how do you answer that?

745
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 4: It's a great question because actually what you're doing is

746
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 4: this is the majority of people, and we're exposed to

747
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 4: so much.

748
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 3: Calories, excess calories. That's a problem.

749
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: The idea of proteinification of food is now adding excess

750
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: calories to an already calorically dense eating program is not

751
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 4: a good idea. It's not a good idea. And this

752
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 4: is it's interesting because while protein is not easily stored

753
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 4: as fat because it's all oxidized, it's difficult to store

754
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 4: as fat. No one's eating just pure protein, right, You're

755
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 4: not having that sausage bowl doesn't just have the macronutrients.

756
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 4: Are not the following fifty grams of dietary protein, zero

757
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 4: grams of fat, and twenty five grams of carbohydrates. You're

758
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 4: talking probably about fifty plus grams of fat, fifty plus

759
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 4: grams of protein, and probably seventy five grams of carbohydrates.

760
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 4: This is a problem. It's a problem. How do we

761
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 4: approach that. I think people have to become very aware

762
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 4: and understand that there's a protein target which is different

763
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 4: for everybody. It's based on age, activity, level, preference. There's

764
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 4: also a carbohydrate target, which we're actually going to be

765
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 4: publishing a white paper on that. It's on carbohydrate tolerance.

766
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: The body can only dispose at rest roughly fifty grams

767
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 4: of carbohydrate at any one time. So if you are

768
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 4: not moving around and you're a muscle glycogen is full,

769
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 4: and you have fifty grams of carbohydrates at breakfast because

770
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: you're having a proteinification bowl, and then you have another

771
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 4: fifty gram at lunch or the average according to en

772
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 4: Hain state it's the average American is having one hundred

773
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 4: grounds of carbohydrates three times a day, So three hundred

774
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: grounds of carbohydrates and not exercising. They're essentially doing three

775
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 4: oral glucose tolerance.

776
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 3: Tests a day.

777
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 4: Wow, And this is again setting us up for just

778
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 4: complete metabolic dysfunction. You know, I would say choose leaner

779
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 4: cuts of protein, but definitely you've got to target protein first.

780
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: We're going to take a break and then Gabrielle is

781
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: going to tell us about some potential long term downsides

782
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: that we might see from glp ones. What's your take

783
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: on golp ones? If someone is on them, what should

784
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: they be thinking about? As all come back to what

785
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, I'm.

786
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: Going to give you my professional opinion on glpe.

787
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

788
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 4: I've been a physician for roughly twenty years and we've

789
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 4: never seen anything more effective in this space. There is benefit,

790
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 4: there is utility. There's a lot of controversy around them.

791
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 4: For example, I'll say one thing that your listeners might

792
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 4: be thinking in their head that they hear it affects

793
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 4: muscle mass and decreases muscle mass, and that's somehow something

794
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 4: special about the glp ones and decreasing muscle mass.

795
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 3: That's not true. It's not true.

796
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 4: Before and I worked in a weight management clinic, this

797
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 4: was part of my training and we didn't have access

798
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 4: to glp ones. But glp ones are not a new drug.

799
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 4: They've been around for twenty years, easily twenty years, but

800
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 4: they were used in endochronology and used for diabetes, used

801
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 4: for other things. Now they're available for weight management and

802
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 4: can be used off label for a number of things.

803
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 4: They're here to stay. And so my concern is that

804
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 4: we are going to swap obesity, the obesity epidemic for sarcopenia,

805
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 4: which is low muscle mass and function, or sarcopenic obesity.

806
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: We're going to swap one epidemic for another, precisely because

807
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 4: there is ease of access. But people are not prioritizing

808
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,959
Speaker 4: muscle health for resistance training and dietary protein, and that

809
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 4: you know, people are going to be worse off after

810
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 4: they go on a GOLP one lose muscle. I mean,

811
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 4: it's great because they lose fat, but it can also

812
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: decrease bone density over time, decrease muscle mass, it can

813
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 4: decrease these vital.

814
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 3: Components of aging.

815
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: So we have to it's it almost accelerates aging and

816
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 4: accelerates that cycle that we've all been on at some

817
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: point in our lives or seen people go on where

818
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 4: they lose and gain the same twenty to thirty pounds.

819
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 4: And I again, I think they're incredible and I think

820
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 4: that they have to be used wisely as a tool.

821
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: One study that really just sort of blew my mind.

822
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: I think it was from Carla Prato's labs. I forget

823
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: what university up in Canada, but she studied this group

824
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: of women and she found that those most likely to

825
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: die in this large cohort, they weren't the people with

826
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: the highest BMIs. They had normal BMIs, but they were sarcopenic.

827
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: It was just like, oh, so these people that we

828
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: would think like, oh, the heaviest people, they're going to

829
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: be the ones to die, right, No, it turns out

830
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: they were normal by BMI standards, but they had such

831
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: little muscle that it hurt them in the long run.

832
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: So you're kind of hitting it like that. That could

833
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: be the endgame here.

834
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 4: That's where I believe that we're going. And I'm going

835
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 4: to throw this out there. DEXA doesn't measure muscle mass directly.

836
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 4: It extrapolates the totality of lean mass, which is your

837
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 4: organs and all these other parts, and then compartmentalizes body

838
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 4: fat and bone. We haven't been looking at that. And

839
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: I'm afraid, and I'm afraid for our society, our culture,

840
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 4: our world. Because the obesity epidemic hit and it seemed

841
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 4: as if it surprised everybody all of a sudden, we're

842
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: dealing with obesity. It just seemed as if, again in

843
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 4: the early nineties, late eighties, it came out of nowhere,

844
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: the same thing is happening right now underneath our noses.

845
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: It's happening.

846
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's almost like you need to if you're

847
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: on a GLP one, great, but you need to almost

848
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: act as if you're not on one and do the

849
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: normal healthy things that you would do where you're trying

850
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: to lose weight with that one, which is to say,

851
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: be smart. List some weights, move your body and that

852
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: could help offset some of that you have to.

853
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 4: In fact, it should be required, and it should be

854
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 4: a requirement. Could you imagine this? Could you imagine your

855
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 4: mom who is in her seventies, and for everyone listening

856
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 4: their parents say in their seventies, who already come from

857
00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 4: a culture of not eating a ton of pre.

858
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: We know that.

859
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 4: When women are in their sixties already, we already know

860
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 4: that many of them, it's it could be anywhere up

861
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 4: to forty percent of them. Forty percent are eating below

862
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 4: the minimum requirement. So if somebody is in their seventies

863
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 4: and they're already not attuned to eating higher approaching, because

864
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 4: that's not really the generation. We only recently started getting

865
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 4: crazy about it. Her having a shake is already hard enough.

866
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 4: Let's say she goes on a GLP one, not hungry

867
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 4: at all. Now you have someone in their seventies who

868
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 4: is not hungry, who's already not training. But maybe she

869
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 4: has some inflammatory markers, maybe because her body fat is

870
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 4: a little bit higher, or maybe that her muscle is

871
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 4: unhealthy and she has some inflammation.

872
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 3: So while the GLP ones.

873
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,479
Speaker 4: Will potentially lower body fat percentage and for a short

874
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 4: period of time lower inflammation, the data suggests that after

875
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 4: two years, the majority of people come off of these vacations.

876
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 3: Now what are we left with? We've now accelerated aging.

877
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: All right, let's land the plane.

878
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: Here. Patient comes, average patient comes to you. You got

879
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: thirty seconds with them, and you need to tell them.

880
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: They say, what do I do? Just give me the

881
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: quick thirty second pitch.

882
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: What do I do? What do you tell them?

883
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: We've hard prioritize your protein. Get your mind right.

884
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: I love it. Well, Gabrielle, thanks so much for coming on.

885
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: This is awesome.

886
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 3: You are so welcome. I can't wait to have you

887
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: on our podcast. In Houston.

888
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: I got to come out to Houston. We'll go to

889
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: a waffle house. We'll one of those protein crazy protein bowls.

890
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: We'll regret it afterwards, but then we will go train

891
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 1: hard and everything will be okay in our lives.

892
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: I'm here for it all right.

893
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for checking out the show, and thanks to doctor

894
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: Gabrielle Lyin for coming on to talk about muscle. As

895
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: a reminder, we are in your fees twice a week,

896
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: so please keep an eye out for more hit subscribe.

897
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: That way you'll automatically get those updates and downloads and

898
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: have them ready for you. And if you want to

899
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: watch this in video form beyond YouTube, iHeart has a

900
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: great app. Just as more Muscle is good, so are

901
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: more apps. So check it out. Thanks for listening, and

902
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: it's always have fun. Don't die and build some more

903
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: muscle

904
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 3: Glass go