WEBVTT - ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt on the Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:05.199 Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. So we're releasing a special podcast 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:09.480 today about the Pittsburgh massacre that happened over the weekend. Yeah, 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.639 and this really head home for me, not just because 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.720 I'm Jewish and I've sat and a lot of synagogues 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.840 on Shabbat over the years, but just because this is 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.919 not how I imagined our country or thought about the 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.720 United States of America. As everyone must know by now, 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:30.120 on Saturday morning, a gunman walked into a synagogue in 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.400 the Squirrel Hill neighborhood of Pittsburgh called the Tree of Life. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.800 The congregants had been celebrating not just the Sabbath, but 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:43.040 also a brisk which is a Jewish baby naming ceremony. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.320 The gunmen shouted, all Jews must die in open fire, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.720 killing eleven people and injuring six. Authorities have found that 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:55.640 his social media was filled with anti Semitic hatred, and 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.360 it appears he targeted this particular synagogue because they were 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:04.400 participating eating in a Shabbat celebration of refugees in this country. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.040 This kept off a horrific week that also saw another 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.600 murder motivated by hate, a white man who killed a 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.240 black man and woman in a Kentucky grocery store, apparently 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.000 because of their race. And then, of course there were 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:23.039 those pipe bombs mailed to many Democratic leaders people in 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:29.080 the media, including the Democratic philanthropist George Soros and others. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.520 Brian and I, like so many of you listening to 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:37.319 this podcast, were heartbroken by the events of this past 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:43.880 weekend and the cold blooded, in human nature of this massacre. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.960 So we wanted to find out more about anti Semitism 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.600 in this country and what we might be able to 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.720 do about it as citizens, So we asked Jonathan Greenblack 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.240 to come in. He is the CEO and National director 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.440 of the a D the Anti Defamation League, and its 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.400 mission is to quote fight the defamation of all the 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.919 Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment for all. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.000 So we're really pleased that he was able to come 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.560 in and help us try to understand or process the 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:25.919 events of Saturday morning. Jonathan Greenblatt, thank you so much 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.360 for coming in than This has been an extraordinarily difficult 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.880 few days, I'm sure for you and for so many 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.320 people in this country, not only from the Jewish community, 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:41.720 but from all Americans who are completely appalled by this 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.720 act of violence. The deadliest shooting of Jews in this 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.400 country in history. As we've said, so, I know you've 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.520 talked to members of this congregation. I know you've been 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:56.640 speaking about this horrific event on various media outlets. So 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.920 how are you processing all of this personally? Frankly, it's hard. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.239 I mean, this is I've only been on the job 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.200 with little over three years, and this is easily the 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.080 most painful days. I mean, I'll tell you you know, 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.519 I remember working in the White House when the shooting 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.920 happened in Newtown, and I remember it was still prepping 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.839 to take this job. I was teaching at Wharton when 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.920 the shooting happened in Charleston, And so those things affect 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.200 you deeply because you're a human being and their children 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:33.880 and their worshippers. To see this happen, though, is so troublesome, 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.920 because we have been saying loud and clear that something 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.720 is going on. We have been literally ringing the bell 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.520 because we've seen this rise in anti Semitic incidents. We've 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.680 seen this rise and hateful rhetoric. We've seen this rise 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:57.480 and online cyber heat, and it is shocking and appalling 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.160 and upsetting to think about a man walking into a 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:06.680 synagogue on a Saturday morning and gunning down elderly people 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:15.680 where they sit, and slaughtering two developmentally disabled men who 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.880 are there to greet people when they walked into synagogue 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.200 and hand them prayer books. And to think that he 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.200 in cold blood murdered a couple in their eighties who 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.120 were married in that same room where they were butchered. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.400 The fact that a nine seven year old woman was 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.159 gunned down, you know, in the pews where she sat praying. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.919 It's hard to explain to your children, you know, that 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.719 which is unexplainable. So, Jonathan, as you mentioned, the trend 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.840 recently has not been good. The a d L found 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.840 that the number of anti Semitic incidents in the US 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.760 rose fifty seven percent last year, which is the largest 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.599 single year increase on record. The number of established neo 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:06.279 Nazi groups is up twice as many hate motivated murders 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:11.120 were committed by white supremacists. What do you attribute all 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:16.240 of this to what happened in and now eighteen that's 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.760 different than the years before. So it's a good question, Brian. 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:21.120 I think there are a few things to keep in mind. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.479 I think the first thing is that uh, as you 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.320 noted we've been tracking anti Semitic against it the United 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.800 States for forty years. We've been measuring attitudes for more 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:36.440 than fifty years, and anti Semitism, unfortunately has never gone away. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.200 It has been a persistent problem in this country. I 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.320 think it's a it's almost like a permanent aspect of 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.760 the human condition. Now, the fact of the matter is, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.240 when we started monitoring attitudes in the sixties, it was 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.840 upwards of thirty percent of Americans health classic anti semitic views. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.599 When we lasted the most recent survey sixteen, that number 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:02.760 was down too. I think, so the number has dropped 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.080 by more than half. Now that being said, the anti 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.760 Semitic instances were on a decline for almost fifteen years, 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:14.920 a gradual, steady decline, and then in they went up 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:19.599 thirty which was a lot, and it was waited toward 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.880 the second half of the year, and then of course 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.800 seen as you said, a fifty seven percent spiked, the 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.080 single largest we've ever seen. So I think there are 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.599 a few different factors at work. I think number one, clearly, 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.200 the public conversation, which is aided and embedded by the 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.599 political environment, has changed so previously. As I just noted, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.039 there were people with anti Semitic views, but they did 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.640 not feel emboldened. There were people who would consider extremists, 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.400 but they did not feel energized. And there were people 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.680 on the margins right or people with bad ideas who 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.600 are on the margins, but they weren't able to move 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.880 into the mainstream. But the political conversation in this country 0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:02.679 is changed, and you now see a kind of hate 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:07.440 filled rhetoric that spews out, and that creates space for 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.520 white supremacists and other sorts of bigots to move right in. 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.600 And it's it's undeniable, and we can talk about that 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.040 leadership if you want, but I think the charged environment 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.520 is part of it. I think the second factor is 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.560 there is broadly felt anxiety and uncertainty. And we know 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.760 this right despite the economy, despite the performance of the 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.160 stock market, despite the record low unemployment rates, despite the 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.480 growing GDP rates. You hear this when you talk to 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.200 people out in America. They are unsure will the next 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.160 generation earn as much as their parents. So this is 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.960 all relevant because in an environment where the political system 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.440 is and delivering answers and there's widespread uncertainty, scapegoating can 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.640 thrive and there's room for those people with silver bullets 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.800 like blame the Jews to get their message out there. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.000 And we've seen that pattern throughout history. It is not new, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.360 we've seen in that movie before. But what's so worrisome 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.880 is right now, the conditions seemed ripe for it, and 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.800 the conditions seem right because of the third factor. So, 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.640 in addition to the political environment, and addition't to I 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:16.680 think the broad uncertainty, social media in these platforms have 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.560 allowed those extremists to accelerate and amplify their reach in 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:27.960 ways which previously were absolutely unimaginable. I mean, in Katie 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.720 know this right, I mean, you've been part of the 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.199 media in this country. Fears you could never find those 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.840 people like on a mainstream network, They could never get 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.640 an audience, right from the editors at the papers to 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.400 those at the networks, they would never allow such individuals 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:50.280 with such hateful ideas to see the light of day today. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.360 and let alone other platforms like four chan, gab, eight chan, 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.320 they have allowed them to their hate to to grow 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.120 with a velocity and at a volume which is unprecedented. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.959 Let's talk about the first and the third things that 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.560 you mentioned and will table the overall anxiety for another conversation. 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.080 The first is leadership. Do you believe that some of 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:18.440 the blame lay squarely at Pennsylvania Avenue. I mean, let's 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.480 just go ahead and address the elephant in the room, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.000 so to speak. So there are a few things here. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.560 Number One, I absolutely positively, and anyone who would deny 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.040 this is sort of I don't know how to lunch. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.640 The President United States has the biggest microphone, he has 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.640 a most significant platform. He's our commander in chief and 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.240 the leader of the country. And we saw this during 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.680 the campaign where his account would retweet the rhetoric of 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.199 white supremacists and and and push out the kind of 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.800 memes and images that were coming from some of the 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.120 worst elements of society. Whether he understood what those meant, 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.160 whether he intended to do that hard to say, but 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.360 undeniable that they started there and would spread, and then 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:07.000 in office from not remembering the Holocaust and the Holocaust 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:12.040 members say statement to the moment in Charlottesville when he 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.040 equivocated on neo Nazis and suggest there were fine people 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.040 among both groups of protesters, you want to call them 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:23.120 protesters to the events in Pittsburgh. You know, I'll tell 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.040 you the A d L. We're not afraid to speak 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.079 truth to power, and we have called this out again 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.560 and again when Canada Trump or President Trump did it. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.920 And I think it's critical. It's crucial that it's not 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.320 just about what you say in response to a tragedy, 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.960 and he did hit some of the right notes he did. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:44.120 It's more important how you create a climate where intolerance 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.760 and hatred has no room. And that's what's so deeply 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.440 worrying about this. You believe that his reaction to this 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.160 was appropriate in terms of what he said. And how 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.840 did you feel about his suggestion that perhaps there should 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.400 be armed guards at synagogues? Yeah, I mean a few thoughts. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:04.920 I think Number one, he did hit some of the 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.719 right notes. There's no question about it. He called that 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.360 anti Semitism. We needed to hear that, the country needed 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.720 to hear that. Like you didn't know where he would land, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:18.000 he landed in the right place with respect to armed 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:22.600 guards and whatnot. Look, I mean every Jewish institution in America, Katie, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.120 from synagogues to schools, to community centers to offices like 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.080 those are the A d L. We all have security protocols. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.120 So my synagogue has an armed guard inside of it. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.800 This one didn't have armed guards. But just keep in 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:40.199 mind that four armed, well trained police officers were shot 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:44.160 and wounded by this person. But the reality is I 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.559 want to go to synagogue to think about praying, not 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.720 to worry about carrying a pistol, Like that's not what 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.480 worship in this country should be about. We've talked about 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.679 President Trump, but it isn't just restricted to President Trump. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.520 Kevin McCarthy, who is going to be the leader of 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.760 the Republicans in the House after this election, had a 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:09.120 tweet up that said, we cannot allow Soros, Styre, and 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.720 Bloomberg to buy this election by in all caps, get 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.920 out and vote Republican. November six picture of George Soros. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.520 You know, my immediate reaction is, Okay, Styre is half Jewish, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.720 But what are these three people have in common? The 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.199 use of the word by Soros emerging, is this major 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:34.480 boogeyman for Republicans. Has there been a concerted effort on 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.320 the right to create a sort of a Jewish villain 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.000 that some crazy people have latched onto. Well, I think 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.240 there absolutely has been a concerted effort, effort among right 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.720 wing extremists for years to sort of spread this propaganda, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.880 these myths that there's Jewish control and that Jewish the rothchild, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.960 So the Soros or Jewish bankers are manipulating world events. Well, 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.880 let's face it, that's nothing new, Jonathanly that that has 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.880 been out there for many, many years. I think what's 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.080 frightening about this moment in times that some of that 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:11.200 fearmongering conspiracy theory so somehow again moved out of the 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.160 recesses of society into the center of the political and 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.480 public conversation. So look, I don't know Kevin McCarthy, but 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.040 I think and I don't know some of the other 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.640 people who have said things. And and let me be 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.760 also clear with something. I don't agree with every donation 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:30.640 that George Sorrows makes, but the continual, relentless references to 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:36.080 his religion, and the continual suggestion that he's buying or manipulating, 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.160 and the continual tying into some broader conspiracy, this is sickening. 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.000 I think it's the extreme right wing, the white supremacish 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.280 have taken this and somehow been able to insert it. 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.040 So what the what we need now though, is this 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.719 is bigger than any one person. Whether it's whether it's 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.240 Kevin McCarthy, or it's President Trump, or it's any other 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.000 elected officials or by the way, political candidates or other 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.760 public figures. Everyone has responsibility to stand up and stamp 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.040 this out. And that that is what's different about this 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.680 moment in time. Things are so polarized, things seem so hot, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.600 that people are unwilling to step forward and admit maybe 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.360 I made a mistake, maybe this doesn't belong. And so 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.160 that's what I would like to see. I don't really 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.640 care how you vote, I care what you value, right, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.080 I don't really care what your party is. I care 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.720 how if you stand up to prejudice. And that's what 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:25.840 we really need to see now, more than ever. Have 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.920 you reached out to any of the people who have 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:36.040 been employing language that you would deem racist, anti semitic, etcetera. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.200 So we we certainly did the a d and I've 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.240 done that. I've done it publicly, I've done it privately. 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.960 Would you call Kevin McCarthy, Absolutely absolutely. I wouldn't talk 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.680 about the nature of our conversations, but I've talked to 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.880 a number of these individuals, and what do they say 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.040 when you reach out and say hey, please restrain yourself. 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.400 Some get it right away and pull back, and some, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.640 more so than ever, are in a state of denial. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.480 Would attributed to well, I'm not in it, somebity, I'm 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.720 good on Israel, or I'm not an anti Semite. Some 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.560 of my best friends are Jews. I hear those kinds 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.160 of comments as well. Um, But look, I think it's 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:09.720 up to us at the a d L, the Shina 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.000 Light to make sure that we're using everything in our 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.920 power to expose these So people like Kevin McCarthy, who 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.680 I'm sure is not an anti Semite, I'm certain of it, 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.120 understand the implications of using that kind of rhetoric. It 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.480 reminds me of what Andrew Gillum said in a recent 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.080 debate about his opponent. I you know, I'm paraphrasing here, 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.160 but I'm not saying you're a racist racist, think you're 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.960 a racist. So similarly, anti Semites think many of these 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.520 people are anti Semitic. Yeah, I mean, let's be clear. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.720 President Trump has Jewish children and Jewish grandchildren. He is 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.920 not an anti Semite. But the anti Semites, I think 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:46.800 he is winking at them and nodding at them, and 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.840 that's what's so troubling. Well do you think so, Because 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.240 when you use language like globalist and nationalist, when you 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.560 fail to call out white supremacists, when your initial response 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.080 to this incident is basically to blame the victims and 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.280 say they needed more protection, it's not a big stretch 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:09.520 to think, gosh, maybe he's actually sympathetic to these views. Well, look, 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.520 I think the president is a paradox. I'll admit that. 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.920 I this is a riddle that I don't totally understand. 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.600 I think by the fact that he works with Jews, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:20.520 he has Jews and his family. I mean, can you imagine, 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.120 for the first time in the history of our country, 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.960 while we had the worst tragedy affecting the Jewish people, 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.920 for the first time, we have literally Jewish grandchildren running 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.040 around the residence of the of the White House. I 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.560 mean it's remarkable. Uh. And it's hard to reconcile these 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.840 two entirely oppositional facts. So I don't think the presidents 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.840 in anti Semite. I think the problem is the anti 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.200 Semites rejoice in some of the things that he says, 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.280 or maybe more importantly, Brian, the things that he doesn't say. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.520 How can you say he's not an anti Semite? Yes, 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:53.480 his his son in law is Jewish and his daughter converted, 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.840 and he does have Jewish grandchildren. But does that inoculate you. Well, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.400 here's what I would say, Katie. I don't know what's 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.200 in his heart. I really don't. Well, is it purely 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.560 political that he's trying to appeal to these people? I 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.000 don't know it's in his heart, And I'm not a 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.199 psychologist analyze in his head. All I know is the 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.679 impact of what he's doing. And we see the increasing 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.520 the anti Semitic incidents, and we see the emboldenment of extremists, 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.080 and we see moments like this one where if you 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.679 look at the rhetoric and this guy's gab kind of 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.080 feed it was the same some of the same kind 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:28.200 of terms that Brian just said about globalists, about caravans, sorrows, 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.359 controlled caravans. That suggests he's taking his cues from the 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.919 political conversation, and that is just deeply disturbing. So how 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.040 are you a hundred person and confident that he doesn't 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.400 have these views, that the president doesn't share these anti 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.320 Semitic views. Look, I don't, to be very frank, I 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.160 spend my time not trying to gain psychoanalyze the president. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.760 I spend my time literally on the ground trying to 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.680 fight anti Semitism and other forms of intolerance when they happen. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.040 So I, as I've said before and that during the campaign, 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.679 and as I've said during his presidency, we want the 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.240 president to take specific measures to stop anti Semitism and 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.439 other forms of intolerance. Right before this massacre at the synagogue, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.720 a number of Democrats and members of the media received 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:16.040 these pipe bombs from a man who apparently was inspired 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.080 by the President and his rhetoric. Yeah. I mean, it's 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.840 a reminder that words have consequences. It's a reminder that 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:28.520 rhetoric can unfortunately have um you know again, unforeseen outcomes. 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.200 And so when the president or anyone else, by the way, 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.480 labels the free press the enemy of the people, we 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.160 shouldn't be surprised that some deranged people decided to take action. 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.840 And again, there's always been deranged people. You have to 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.920 be deranged to do something like that. But the problem 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.240 is that there's an environment now where they feel emboldened, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.800 where they feel like they have a license to operate, 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.800 and that's dangerous. And we saw that play out last week, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.120 and they have a target list more or less. More 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:01.159 or less, you're not simply focused on anti Semitism. You 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.080 are focused on hate crimes in general at the a 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.399 d L, and hate crimes against people of color have 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:13.600 increased even more than those hate crimes against Jews. Correct. 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.040 I don't know all the specific numbers, you know, as 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.639 in versus African Americans or Latinos or l g t 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.400 Q or other forms of immigrants or Muslims. I don't 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.639 have the numbers at my top of my head, but 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.320 I will tell you this, hate crimes are up, intolerance 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.200 is up. So we've always believed at the a d 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.639 L that it's not just about standing up for us, 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.160 it's also about standing up for others. We've been my 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.000 predecessors March with Dr King, fought for marriage equality, stood 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.919 up for gender against gender violence, and will continue to 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.399 do it today. Let's move on and talk about the 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.439 cyber aspect of this, particularly a site called gab described 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:56.520 as extremist friendly something the perpetrator of this crime was 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.560 apparently on. You know how many sites are they're like 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:05.040 this out there, Jonathan, and what can be done to 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.360 monitor them or shut them down. I know gabst has 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.320 now been shut down, has been knocked off, and I 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.240 heard from the general counsel of go Daddy this morning 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:15.960 who told me they were taking it offline. You know, 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.080 they host the domain. So to try to understand this 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.960 world of social media, there's sort of three tiers. There's 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.240 the public web, there's the private web, and then there's 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.560 the dark web. So the public web is like YouTube 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.439 or Facebook or Google or Twitter. The things you can 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.280 see that anyone can see the private web are the 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:41.000 password protected zones like on Reddit or on four chance 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.120 or eight chance or these other services that I'm guessing 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.000 Katie has been a lot of time, but they're very 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.679 popular and you need to be you know, admitted in. 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.600 And then the dark web, which is a part of 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.760 the Internet you can't access, you know, just with your 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.760 Chrome browser, but where a lot of nefarious and very 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.720 ugly activity happens. So gab and four chan and h 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.200 in these kinds of services there on the private web, 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.400 and there are a lot of them, and the real 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:10.919 issue is that hundreds of thousands of people, upwards of 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.080 millions of people use these services, and a lot of 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.480 it isn't necessarily you know, the kind of trafficking in 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:21.440 racist or extreme mr anti Semitic content, but there's enough 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.760 of it that is that is incredibly frightening. And I 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:26.240 see this. You know, at the A d L we 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:30.000 opened a Center for Technology and Society in Silicon Valley 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.639 last year because we know that the front line and 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.240 fighting hate it's on Facebook. We know in order to 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.560 tackle the kind of slander and stereotypes that I'm referring to, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.600 we need to be engaged with Twitter and YouTube and 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:47.000 all these different platforms. Twitter says that it has a 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:51.040 policy where if you spew hateful rhetoric or prejudice rhetoric, 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.160 you're gonna get kicked off the platform. And yet we've 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.959 seen people like Louis Ferricon and others who put up 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.720 anti Semitic tweets and they're still there, the at least 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.359 as of this recording, they're still there, and those people 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.400 are allowed to continue to spread hate. What can be 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.879 done to address the public web these very large, powerful, 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:16.639 rich platforms that I don't know whether they allow it 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:21.720 or they just can't stop all of the hate that's 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:24.240 you know that's going on. Well, look, I think it's 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.280 it's a good question. Ryan and I think there's no 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.280 question that the large companies have a huge role to 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.959 play here. I think part of it requires innovation and 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.159 part of it requires sort of intervention. So in the 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:40.040 innovation side, we need the companies to realize improving their 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.960 products and making their platforms safer for all users is 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.879 not just because of the you know, requests of stakeholder 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:48.960 groups like the A d L. It's in the interest 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:53.159 of their shareholders, right Their stock price will suffer and 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.359 usage will go down if users don't feel safe. So 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:57.520 this is what I said, and I have an op 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.040 ed in the New York Times today about this. The 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.480 best way to show these companies that they need to 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.720 do something about it is to deactivate your account, click 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.560 off instead of clicking through. Would you have a campaign 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:11.639 trying to urge people to do that, because people are 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.239 just aren't going to do it, Jonathan, because oh this 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:15.840 is a good idea. I mean, you have to have 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:19.320 a really an organized campaign the way that we do it, 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.440 as we call attention. And so you know, we've exposed 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.760 anti semitic abuse on Twitter, specifically against you know, journalists, 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.520 and when we did that in the summer of sixteen, 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:29.960