Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. So we're releasing a special podcast
Speaker 1: today about the Pittsburgh massacre that happened over the weekend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this really head home for me, not just because
Speaker 1: I'm Jewish and I've sat and a lot of synagogues
Speaker 1: on Shabbat over the years, but just because this is
Speaker 1: not how I imagined our country or thought about the
Speaker 1: United States of America. As everyone must know by now,
Speaker 1: on Saturday morning, a gunman walked into a synagogue in
Speaker 1: the Squirrel Hill neighborhood of Pittsburgh called the Tree of Life.
Speaker 1: The congregants had been celebrating not just the Sabbath, but
Speaker 1: also a brisk which is a Jewish baby naming ceremony.
Speaker 1: The gunmen shouted, all Jews must die in open fire,
Speaker 1: killing eleven people and injuring six. Authorities have found that
Speaker 1: his social media was filled with anti Semitic hatred, and
Speaker 1: it appears he targeted this particular synagogue because they were
Speaker 1: participating eating in a Shabbat celebration of refugees in this country.
Speaker 1: This kept off a horrific week that also saw another
Speaker 1: murder motivated by hate, a white man who killed a
Speaker 1: black man and woman in a Kentucky grocery store, apparently
Speaker 1: because of their race. And then, of course there were
Speaker 1: those pipe bombs mailed to many Democratic leaders people in
Speaker 1: the media, including the Democratic philanthropist George Soros and others.
Speaker 1: Brian and I, like so many of you listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast, were heartbroken by the events of this past
Speaker 1: weekend and the cold blooded, in human nature of this massacre.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to find out more about anti Semitism
Speaker 1: in this country and what we might be able to
Speaker 1: do about it as citizens, So we asked Jonathan Greenblack
Speaker 1: to come in. He is the CEO and National director
Speaker 1: of the a D the Anti Defamation League, and its
Speaker 1: mission is to quote fight the defamation of all the
Speaker 1: Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment for all.
Speaker 1: So we're really pleased that he was able to come
Speaker 1: in and help us try to understand or process the
Speaker 1: events of Saturday morning. Jonathan Greenblatt, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming in than This has been an extraordinarily difficult
Speaker 1: few days, I'm sure for you and for so many
Speaker 1: people in this country, not only from the Jewish community,
Speaker 1: but from all Americans who are completely appalled by this
Speaker 1: act of violence. The deadliest shooting of Jews in this
Speaker 1: country in history. As we've said, so, I know you've
Speaker 1: talked to members of this congregation. I know you've been
Speaker 1: speaking about this horrific event on various media outlets. So
Speaker 1: how are you processing all of this personally? Frankly, it's hard.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is I've only been on the job
Speaker 1: with little over three years, and this is easily the
Speaker 1: most painful days. I mean, I'll tell you you know,
Speaker 1: I remember working in the White House when the shooting
Speaker 1: happened in Newtown, and I remember it was still prepping
Speaker 1: to take this job. I was teaching at Wharton when
Speaker 1: the shooting happened in Charleston, And so those things affect
Speaker 1: you deeply because you're a human being and their children
Speaker 1: and their worshippers. To see this happen, though, is so troublesome,
Speaker 1: because we have been saying loud and clear that something
Speaker 1: is going on. We have been literally ringing the bell
Speaker 1: because we've seen this rise in anti Semitic incidents. We've
Speaker 1: seen this rise and hateful rhetoric. We've seen this rise
Speaker 1: and online cyber heat, and it is shocking and appalling
Speaker 1: and upsetting to think about a man walking into a
Speaker 1: synagogue on a Saturday morning and gunning down elderly people
Speaker 1: where they sit, and slaughtering two developmentally disabled men who
Speaker 1: are there to greet people when they walked into synagogue
Speaker 1: and hand them prayer books. And to think that he
Speaker 1: in cold blood murdered a couple in their eighties who
Speaker 1: were married in that same room where they were butchered.
Speaker 1: The fact that a nine seven year old woman was
Speaker 1: gunned down, you know, in the pews where she sat praying.
Speaker 1: It's hard to explain to your children, you know, that
Speaker 1: which is unexplainable. So, Jonathan, as you mentioned, the trend
Speaker 1: recently has not been good. The a d L found
Speaker 1: that the number of anti Semitic incidents in the US
Speaker 1: rose fifty seven percent last year, which is the largest
Speaker 1: single year increase on record. The number of established neo
Speaker 1: Nazi groups is up twice as many hate motivated murders
Speaker 1: were committed by white supremacists. What do you attribute all
Speaker 1: of this to what happened in and now eighteen that's
Speaker 1: different than the years before. So it's a good question, Brian.
Speaker 1: I think there are a few things to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: I think the first thing is that uh, as you
Speaker 1: noted we've been tracking anti Semitic against it the United
Speaker 1: States for forty years. We've been measuring attitudes for more
Speaker 1: than fifty years, and anti Semitism, unfortunately has never gone away.
Speaker 1: It has been a persistent problem in this country. I
Speaker 1: think it's a it's almost like a permanent aspect of
Speaker 1: the human condition. Now, the fact of the matter is,
Speaker 1: when we started monitoring attitudes in the sixties, it was
Speaker 1: upwards of thirty percent of Americans health classic anti semitic views.
Speaker 1: When we lasted the most recent survey sixteen, that number
Speaker 1: was down too. I think, so the number has dropped
Speaker 1: by more than half. Now that being said, the anti
Speaker 1: Semitic instances were on a decline for almost fifteen years,
Speaker 1: a gradual, steady decline, and then in they went up
Speaker 1: thirty which was a lot, and it was waited toward
Speaker 1: the second half of the year, and then of course
Speaker 1: seen as you said, a fifty seven percent spiked, the
Speaker 1: single largest we've ever seen. So I think there are
Speaker 1: a few different factors at work. I think number one, clearly,
Speaker 1: the public conversation, which is aided and embedded by the
Speaker 1: political environment, has changed so previously. As I just noted,
Speaker 1: there were people with anti Semitic views, but they did
Speaker 1: not feel emboldened. There were people who would consider extremists,
Speaker 1: but they did not feel energized. And there were people
Speaker 1: on the margins right or people with bad ideas who
Speaker 1: are on the margins, but they weren't able to move
Speaker 1: into the mainstream. But the political conversation in this country
Speaker 1: is changed, and you now see a kind of hate
Speaker 1: filled rhetoric that spews out, and that creates space for
Speaker 1: white supremacists and other sorts of bigots to move right in.
Speaker 1: And it's it's undeniable, and we can talk about that
Speaker 1: leadership if you want, but I think the charged environment
Speaker 1: is part of it. I think the second factor is
Speaker 1: there is broadly felt anxiety and uncertainty. And we know
Speaker 1: this right despite the economy, despite the performance of the
Speaker 1: stock market, despite the record low unemployment rates, despite the
Speaker 1: growing GDP rates. You hear this when you talk to
Speaker 1: people out in America. They are unsure will the next
Speaker 1: generation earn as much as their parents. So this is
Speaker 1: all relevant because in an environment where the political system
Speaker 1: is and delivering answers and there's widespread uncertainty, scapegoating can
Speaker 1: thrive and there's room for those people with silver bullets
Speaker 1: like blame the Jews to get their message out there.
Speaker 1: And we've seen that pattern throughout history. It is not new,
Speaker 1: we've seen in that movie before. But what's so worrisome
Speaker 1: is right now, the conditions seemed ripe for it, and
Speaker 1: the conditions seem right because of the third factor. So,
Speaker 1: in addition to the political environment, and addition't to I
Speaker 1: think the broad uncertainty, social media in these platforms have
Speaker 1: allowed those extremists to accelerate and amplify their reach in
Speaker 1: ways which previously were absolutely unimaginable. I mean, in Katie
Speaker 1: know this right, I mean, you've been part of the
Speaker 1: media in this country. Fears you could never find those
Speaker 1: people like on a mainstream network, They could never get
Speaker 1: an audience, right from the editors at the papers to
Speaker 1: those at the networks, they would never allow such individuals
Speaker 1: with such hateful ideas to see the light of day today. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, YouTube,
Speaker 1: and let alone other platforms like four chan, gab, eight chan,
Speaker 1: they have allowed them to their hate to to grow
Speaker 1: with a velocity and at a volume which is unprecedented.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the first and the third things that
Speaker 1: you mentioned and will table the overall anxiety for another conversation.
Speaker 1: The first is leadership. Do you believe that some of
Speaker 1: the blame lay squarely at Pennsylvania Avenue. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: just go ahead and address the elephant in the room,
Speaker 1: so to speak. So there are a few things here.
Speaker 1: Number One, I absolutely positively, and anyone who would deny
Speaker 1: this is sort of I don't know how to lunch.
Speaker 1: The President United States has the biggest microphone, he has
Speaker 1: a most significant platform. He's our commander in chief and
Speaker 1: the leader of the country. And we saw this during
Speaker 1: the campaign where his account would retweet the rhetoric of
Speaker 1: white supremacists and and and push out the kind of
Speaker 1: memes and images that were coming from some of the
Speaker 1: worst elements of society. Whether he understood what those meant,
Speaker 1: whether he intended to do that hard to say, but
Speaker 1: undeniable that they started there and would spread, and then
Speaker 1: in office from not remembering the Holocaust and the Holocaust
Speaker 1: members say statement to the moment in Charlottesville when he
Speaker 1: equivocated on neo Nazis and suggest there were fine people
Speaker 1: among both groups of protesters, you want to call them
Speaker 1: protesters to the events in Pittsburgh. You know, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you the A d L. We're not afraid to speak
Speaker 1: truth to power, and we have called this out again
Speaker 1: and again when Canada Trump or President Trump did it.
Speaker 1: And I think it's critical. It's crucial that it's not
Speaker 1: just about what you say in response to a tragedy,
Speaker 1: and he did hit some of the right notes he did.
Speaker 1: It's more important how you create a climate where intolerance
Speaker 1: and hatred has no room. And that's what's so deeply
Speaker 1: worrying about this. You believe that his reaction to this
Speaker 1: was appropriate in terms of what he said. And how
Speaker 1: did you feel about his suggestion that perhaps there should
Speaker 1: be armed guards at synagogues? Yeah, I mean a few thoughts.
Speaker 1: I think Number one, he did hit some of the
Speaker 1: right notes. There's no question about it. He called that
Speaker 1: anti Semitism. We needed to hear that, the country needed
Speaker 1: to hear that. Like you didn't know where he would land,
Speaker 1: he landed in the right place with respect to armed
Speaker 1: guards and whatnot. Look, I mean every Jewish institution in America, Katie,
Speaker 1: from synagogues to schools, to community centers to offices like
Speaker 1: those are the A d L. We all have security protocols.
Speaker 1: So my synagogue has an armed guard inside of it.
Speaker 1: This one didn't have armed guards. But just keep in
Speaker 1: mind that four armed, well trained police officers were shot
Speaker 1: and wounded by this person. But the reality is I
Speaker 1: want to go to synagogue to think about praying, not
Speaker 1: to worry about carrying a pistol, Like that's not what
Speaker 1: worship in this country should be about. We've talked about
Speaker 1: President Trump, but it isn't just restricted to President Trump.
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, who is going to be the leader of
Speaker 1: the Republicans in the House after this election, had a
Speaker 1: tweet up that said, we cannot allow Soros, Styre, and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg to buy this election by in all caps, get
Speaker 1: out and vote Republican. November six picture of George Soros.
Speaker 1: You know, my immediate reaction is, Okay, Styre is half Jewish,
Speaker 1: But what are these three people have in common? The
Speaker 1: use of the word by Soros emerging, is this major
Speaker 1: boogeyman for Republicans. Has there been a concerted effort on
Speaker 1: the right to create a sort of a Jewish villain
Speaker 1: that some crazy people have latched onto. Well, I think
Speaker 1: there absolutely has been a concerted effort, effort among right
Speaker 1: wing extremists for years to sort of spread this propaganda,
Speaker 1: these myths that there's Jewish control and that Jewish the rothchild,
Speaker 1: So the Soros or Jewish bankers are manipulating world events. Well,
Speaker 1: let's face it, that's nothing new, Jonathanly that that has
Speaker 1: been out there for many, many years. I think what's
Speaker 1: frightening about this moment in times that some of that
Speaker 1: fearmongering conspiracy theory so somehow again moved out of the
Speaker 1: recesses of society into the center of the political and
Speaker 1: public conversation. So look, I don't know Kevin McCarthy, but
Speaker 1: I think and I don't know some of the other
Speaker 1: people who have said things. And and let me be
Speaker 1: also clear with something. I don't agree with every donation
Speaker 1: that George Sorrows makes, but the continual, relentless references to
Speaker 1: his religion, and the continual suggestion that he's buying or manipulating,
Speaker 1: and the continual tying into some broader conspiracy, this is sickening.
Speaker 1: I think it's the extreme right wing, the white supremacish
Speaker 1: have taken this and somehow been able to insert it.
Speaker 1: So what the what we need now though, is this
Speaker 1: is bigger than any one person. Whether it's whether it's
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, or it's President Trump, or it's any other
Speaker 1: elected officials or by the way, political candidates or other
Speaker 1: public figures. Everyone has responsibility to stand up and stamp
Speaker 1: this out. And that that is what's different about this
Speaker 1: moment in time. Things are so polarized, things seem so hot,
Speaker 1: that people are unwilling to step forward and admit maybe
Speaker 1: I made a mistake, maybe this doesn't belong. And so
Speaker 1: that's what I would like to see. I don't really
Speaker 1: care how you vote, I care what you value, right,
Speaker 1: I don't really care what your party is. I care
Speaker 1: how if you stand up to prejudice. And that's what
Speaker 1: we really need to see now, more than ever. Have
Speaker 1: you reached out to any of the people who have
Speaker 1: been employing language that you would deem racist, anti semitic, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So we we certainly did the a d and I've
Speaker 1: done that. I've done it publicly, I've done it privately.
Speaker 1: Would you call Kevin McCarthy, Absolutely absolutely. I wouldn't talk
Speaker 1: about the nature of our conversations, but I've talked to
Speaker 1: a number of these individuals, and what do they say
Speaker 1: when you reach out and say hey, please restrain yourself.
Speaker 1: Some get it right away and pull back, and some,
Speaker 1: more so than ever, are in a state of denial.
Speaker 1: Would attributed to well, I'm not in it, somebity, I'm
Speaker 1: good on Israel, or I'm not an anti Semite. Some
Speaker 1: of my best friends are Jews. I hear those kinds
Speaker 1: of comments as well. Um, But look, I think it's
Speaker 1: up to us at the a d L, the Shina
Speaker 1: Light to make sure that we're using everything in our
Speaker 1: power to expose these So people like Kevin McCarthy, who
Speaker 1: I'm sure is not an anti Semite, I'm certain of it,
Speaker 1: understand the implications of using that kind of rhetoric. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of what Andrew Gillum said in a recent
Speaker 1: debate about his opponent. I you know, I'm paraphrasing here,
Speaker 1: but I'm not saying you're a racist racist, think you're
Speaker 1: a racist. So similarly, anti Semites think many of these
Speaker 1: people are anti Semitic. Yeah, I mean, let's be clear.
Speaker 1: President Trump has Jewish children and Jewish grandchildren. He is
Speaker 1: not an anti Semite. But the anti Semites, I think
Speaker 1: he is winking at them and nodding at them, and
Speaker 1: that's what's so troubling. Well do you think so, Because
Speaker 1: when you use language like globalist and nationalist, when you
Speaker 1: fail to call out white supremacists, when your initial response
Speaker 1: to this incident is basically to blame the victims and
Speaker 1: say they needed more protection, it's not a big stretch
Speaker 1: to think, gosh, maybe he's actually sympathetic to these views. Well, look,
Speaker 1: I think the president is a paradox. I'll admit that.
Speaker 1: I this is a riddle that I don't totally understand.
Speaker 1: I think by the fact that he works with Jews,
Speaker 1: he has Jews and his family. I mean, can you imagine,
Speaker 1: for the first time in the history of our country,
Speaker 1: while we had the worst tragedy affecting the Jewish people,
Speaker 1: for the first time, we have literally Jewish grandchildren running
Speaker 1: around the residence of the of the White House. I
Speaker 1: mean it's remarkable. Uh. And it's hard to reconcile these
Speaker 1: two entirely oppositional facts. So I don't think the presidents
Speaker 1: in anti Semite. I think the problem is the anti
Speaker 1: Semites rejoice in some of the things that he says,
Speaker 1: or maybe more importantly, Brian, the things that he doesn't say.
Speaker 1: How can you say he's not an anti Semite? Yes,
Speaker 1: his his son in law is Jewish and his daughter converted,
Speaker 1: and he does have Jewish grandchildren. But does that inoculate you. Well,
Speaker 1: here's what I would say, Katie. I don't know what's
Speaker 1: in his heart. I really don't. Well, is it purely
Speaker 1: political that he's trying to appeal to these people? I
Speaker 1: don't know it's in his heart, And I'm not a
Speaker 1: psychologist analyze in his head. All I know is the
Speaker 1: impact of what he's doing. And we see the increasing
Speaker 1: the anti Semitic incidents, and we see the emboldenment of extremists,
Speaker 1: and we see moments like this one where if you
Speaker 1: look at the rhetoric and this guy's gab kind of
Speaker 1: feed it was the same some of the same kind
Speaker 1: of terms that Brian just said about globalists, about caravans, sorrows,
Speaker 1: controlled caravans. That suggests he's taking his cues from the
Speaker 1: political conversation, and that is just deeply disturbing. So how
Speaker 1: are you a hundred person and confident that he doesn't
Speaker 1: have these views, that the president doesn't share these anti
Speaker 1: Semitic views. Look, I don't, to be very frank, I
Speaker 1: spend my time not trying to gain psychoanalyze the president.
Speaker 1: I spend my time literally on the ground trying to
Speaker 1: fight anti Semitism and other forms of intolerance when they happen.
Speaker 1: So I, as I've said before and that during the campaign,
Speaker 1: and as I've said during his presidency, we want the
Speaker 1: president to take specific measures to stop anti Semitism and
Speaker 1: other forms of intolerance. Right before this massacre at the synagogue,
Speaker 1: a number of Democrats and members of the media received
Speaker 1: these pipe bombs from a man who apparently was inspired
Speaker 1: by the President and his rhetoric. Yeah. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a reminder that words have consequences. It's a reminder that
Speaker 1: rhetoric can unfortunately have um you know again, unforeseen outcomes.
Speaker 1: And so when the president or anyone else, by the way,
Speaker 1: labels the free press the enemy of the people, we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be surprised that some deranged people decided to take action.
Speaker 1: And again, there's always been deranged people. You have to
Speaker 1: be deranged to do something like that. But the problem
Speaker 1: is that there's an environment now where they feel emboldened,
Speaker 1: where they feel like they have a license to operate,
Speaker 1: and that's dangerous. And we saw that play out last week,
Speaker 1: and they have a target list more or less. More
Speaker 1: or less, you're not simply focused on anti Semitism. You
Speaker 1: are focused on hate crimes in general at the a
Speaker 1: d L, and hate crimes against people of color have
Speaker 1: increased even more than those hate crimes against Jews. Correct.
Speaker 1: I don't know all the specific numbers, you know, as
Speaker 1: in versus African Americans or Latinos or l g t
Speaker 1: Q or other forms of immigrants or Muslims. I don't
Speaker 1: have the numbers at my top of my head, but
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, hate crimes are up, intolerance
Speaker 1: is up. So we've always believed at the a d
Speaker 1: L that it's not just about standing up for us,
Speaker 1: it's also about standing up for others. We've been my
Speaker 1: predecessors March with Dr King, fought for marriage equality, stood
Speaker 1: up for gender against gender violence, and will continue to
Speaker 1: do it today. Let's move on and talk about the
Speaker 1: cyber aspect of this, particularly a site called gab described
Speaker 1: as extremist friendly something the perpetrator of this crime was
Speaker 1: apparently on. You know how many sites are they're like
Speaker 1: this out there, Jonathan, and what can be done to
Speaker 1: monitor them or shut them down. I know gabst has
Speaker 1: now been shut down, has been knocked off, and I
Speaker 1: heard from the general counsel of go Daddy this morning
Speaker 1: who told me they were taking it offline. You know,
Speaker 1: they host the domain. So to try to understand this
Speaker 1: world of social media, there's sort of three tiers. There's
Speaker 1: the public web, there's the private web, and then there's
Speaker 1: the dark web. So the public web is like YouTube
Speaker 1: or Facebook or Google or Twitter. The things you can
Speaker 1: see that anyone can see the private web are the
Speaker 1: password protected zones like on Reddit or on four chance
Speaker 1: or eight chance or these other services that I'm guessing
Speaker 1: Katie has been a lot of time, but they're very
Speaker 1: popular and you need to be you know, admitted in.
Speaker 1: And then the dark web, which is a part of
Speaker 1: the Internet you can't access, you know, just with your
Speaker 1: Chrome browser, but where a lot of nefarious and very
Speaker 1: ugly activity happens. So gab and four chan and h
Speaker 1: in these kinds of services there on the private web,
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of them, and the real
Speaker 1: issue is that hundreds of thousands of people, upwards of
Speaker 1: millions of people use these services, and a lot of
Speaker 1: it isn't necessarily you know, the kind of trafficking in
Speaker 1: racist or extreme mr anti Semitic content, but there's enough
Speaker 1: of it that is that is incredibly frightening. And I
Speaker 1: see this. You know, at the A d L we
Speaker 1: opened a Center for Technology and Society in Silicon Valley
Speaker 1: last year because we know that the front line and
Speaker 1: fighting hate it's on Facebook. We know in order to
Speaker 1: tackle the kind of slander and stereotypes that I'm referring to,
Speaker 1: we need to be engaged with Twitter and YouTube and
Speaker 1: all these different platforms. Twitter says that it has a
Speaker 1: policy where if you spew hateful rhetoric or prejudice rhetoric,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get kicked off the platform. And yet we've
Speaker 1: seen people like Louis Ferricon and others who put up
Speaker 1: anti Semitic tweets and they're still there, the at least
Speaker 1: as of this recording, they're still there, and those people
Speaker 1: are allowed to continue to spread hate. What can be
Speaker 1: done to address the public web these very large, powerful,
Speaker 1: rich platforms that I don't know whether they allow it
Speaker 1: or they just can't stop all of the hate that's
Speaker 1: you know that's going on. Well, look, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's a good question. Ryan and I think there's no
Speaker 1: question that the large companies have a huge role to
Speaker 1: play here. I think part of it requires innovation and
Speaker 1: part of it requires sort of intervention. So in the
Speaker 1: innovation side, we need the companies to realize improving their
Speaker 1: products and making their platforms safer for all users is
Speaker 1: not just because of the you know, requests of stakeholder
Speaker 1: groups like the A d L. It's in the interest
Speaker 1: of their shareholders, right Their stock price will suffer and
Speaker 1: usage will go down if users don't feel safe. So
Speaker 1: this is what I said, and I have an op
Speaker 1: ed in the New York Times today about this. The
Speaker 1: best way to show these companies that they need to
Speaker 1: do something about it is to deactivate your account, click
Speaker 1: off instead of clicking through. Would you have a campaign
Speaker 1: trying to urge people to do that, because people are
Speaker 1: just aren't going to do it, Jonathan, because oh this
Speaker 1: is a good idea. I mean, you have to have
Speaker 1: a really an organized campaign the way that we do it,
Speaker 1: as we call attention. And so you know, we've exposed
Speaker 1: anti semitic abuse on Twitter, specifically against you know, journalists,
Speaker 1: and when we did that in the summer of sixteen,
Speaker 1: I remember we did a podcast about this, we talked
Speaker 1: about it. It affected their share price. So why did it?
Speaker 1: Because because suddenly companies who are looking at them in
Speaker 1: terms as an m and a possibility. I thought, wait
Speaker 1: a second, there's a lot of liability on the platform.
Speaker 1: Maybe the platform is off brand, maybe won't be again
Speaker 1: consistent with the shareholder value interests? Is that the only
Speaker 1: way to communicate to these companies and financially. As a
Speaker 1: former executive and I was a senior executive at Starbucks
Speaker 1: and I've worked as an executive to publicly traded companies,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you that absolutely makes a difference. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I would also say that the employees
Speaker 1: and the users have a lot to say, and when
Speaker 1: companies operate outside of core values of things like decency
Speaker 1: and respect and tolerance, you're seeing it more and more.
Speaker 1: So petitions and campaigns can be useful and the companies
Speaker 1: need to realize that we want to collaborate with them.
Speaker 1: And I do want to say although Brian, as you
Speaker 1: were saying, Twitter has a lot of work to do,
Speaker 1: YouTube is a lot of work to do. Facebook as
Speaker 1: a lot of work to do. They have made progress.
Speaker 1: We have seen improvements in their product. They are better
Speaker 1: today than they were just a few years ago. Bad
Speaker 1: actors do get thrown off far more frequently today than
Speaker 1: they do a few years ago. Look at Alex Jones.
Speaker 1: So there are encouraging signs, but they need to do more.
Speaker 1: On Tuesday, the president is going to be traveling to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: According to Sarah Huckabee Sanders, what kind of reception will
Speaker 1: he get and what advice would you give him as
Speaker 1: he goes into that community. Well, look, it's up to
Speaker 1: the local Jewish community and the family is there to
Speaker 1: decide how. I'm how they're going to respond to him.
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I think the emotions are very
Speaker 1: raw right now. Basically when I've talked to this community
Speaker 1: is struggling. I think the the interfaith vigil last night
Speaker 1: was really important. But I gotta tell you, I mean
Speaker 1: they're suffering right now. So I don't know how they
Speaker 1: will react. He is the president, and so I think
Speaker 1: my advice to him would be two with clarity and
Speaker 1: with consistency, and in a way that is authentic to
Speaker 1: denounce not just anti Semitism, but all forms of sort
Speaker 1: of racism and white supremacy. I think he needs to
Speaker 1: speak in a clear voice. And I think, you know what, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: this visit will be meaningful, not not only because he's
Speaker 1: going to a place that suffered such tragedy, but if
Speaker 1: it demonstrates a pivot for the president and he can
Speaker 1: shift from not just responding to tragedy but demonstrating a
Speaker 1: commitment to respect going forward. In fact, there's a letter
Speaker 1: that was written to the President by an organization called
Speaker 1: Ben the Ark. Why don't you help our listener understand
Speaker 1: what this organization is and then I'll actually read a
Speaker 1: couple of lines from it. So beni Arc is a
Speaker 1: Jewish um group focused on issues of social justice. They're
Speaker 1: domestically oriented. I knows in the leadership. They're very nice,
Speaker 1: good well meaning people, and they're focused on, you know,
Speaker 1: issues like immigration reform and racism and institutional racism. And
Speaker 1: I think they're very concerned about this. Well, this letter reads.
Speaker 1: For the past three years, your words and your policies
Speaker 1: have been bold in a growing white nationalist movement. You
Speaker 1: yourself called the murderer evil, but yesterday's violence is the
Speaker 1: direct culmination of your influence. President Trump, you are not
Speaker 1: welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounced white nationalism. President Trump,
Speaker 1: You're not welcome in Pittsburgh until you stop targeting and
Speaker 1: endangering all minorities. President Trump, You're not welcome in Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: until you seize your assault on immigrants and refugees. President Trump,
Speaker 1: You're not welcome in Pittsburgh until you commit yourself to compassionate,
Speaker 1: democratic policies that recognize the dignity of all of us. Well, look,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think the Jewish community
Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh, the Congregation of Trial Life, needs to decide
Speaker 1: whether he's welcome, And I don't think it's for Bemi
Speaker 1: Ark to decide that if the president wants to go.
Speaker 1: I think what can make them visit meaningful is if
Speaker 1: he actually, truly, sincerely change his course and strikes a
Speaker 1: new tone and uses the kind of language that you
Speaker 1: would expect, because look, it's one thing to be political,
Speaker 1: it's another thing to be presidential, and it's one thing
Speaker 1: to you know, he may have the formal title of leader,
Speaker 1: but he needs to accept the moral responsibility of leadership.
Speaker 1: So if he gets it right, it could be great.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, Brian,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about, you know, Presidential leadership is so
Speaker 1: important to healing when these horrific events happen, whether it's
Speaker 1: President Obama shedding a tear over those children at Sandy
Speaker 1: Hook or other presidents who have time and time again
Speaker 1: really provided the soothing bomb to a to a really
Speaker 1: hurting nation. Um. I hope that President Trump understands, as
Speaker 1: you said, Jonathan, his responsibility and the fact that his
Speaker 1: words are exceedingly important. I think about President George W.
Speaker 1: Bush going to the Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan shortly
Speaker 1: after nine eleven and saying very clearly, at a fraud moment,
Speaker 1: we're not at war with the Islamic faith. You know,
Speaker 1: we're at war with terrorism, and we're not going to
Speaker 1: target you. I mean, I think of President Reagan after
Speaker 1: the Challenger disaster. There's so many examples when this country
Speaker 1: needs a president to bring it together and turn down
Speaker 1: the temperature, and remains to be seen whether this president
Speaker 1: is capable of that. You know, so many people are
Speaker 1: at a loss as to what they can do. We're
Speaker 1: talking about what the president can do, We're talking about
Speaker 1: deactivating our Twitter accounts, But can the average citizen do, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: Because I feel like the majority of Americans are really
Speaker 1: good people, of course, and yet they're feeling so helpless
Speaker 1: and hopeless and in some ways lost. A friend of
Speaker 1: mine texted me, I no longer recognize my country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's heartbreaking hear comments like that, like it's
Speaker 1: so crushing to think about people shot and synagogue in chabba.
Speaker 1: I think these are hard times because I don't think
Speaker 1: there's a silver bullet, you know. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: the one thing we can do. I think part of
Speaker 1: me says we have to hug our children tighter. I
Speaker 1: really feel like that, and part of me says we
Speaker 1: have to lock arms with others in need. And so everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, shows up in different ways. But this is
Speaker 1: a moment when I think we have to really recognize
Speaker 1: the other. If you're a Christian, find that Jewish person.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're straight, find that gay person. If
Speaker 1: you're born here in this country, go find that immigranto
Speaker 1: refugee and strike up a conversation and hold their hand
Speaker 1: and create some kind of communion with them. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm the I'm the grandson of a Holocaust survivor, and
Speaker 1: I am the husband of a political refugee from Iran.
Speaker 1: And I think my grandfather, and I think my in
Speaker 1: laws and my wife sometimes have a hard time reconciling
Speaker 1: where we are today with the country that they came to.
Speaker 1: But I do think America's greatest strength is her ability
Speaker 1: to renew itself. So I think we will, I hope,
Speaker 1: I pray we will get through this. And I suspect
Speaker 1: as the head of the a d L, you'll agree
Speaker 1: with this, Jonathan. One thing that all of us can do,
Speaker 1: particularly those of us with a big platform or a
Speaker 1: lot of followers like Katie has or politicians, have call
Speaker 1: out anti semitic or racist rhetoric as soon as you
Speaker 1: see it, as loudly as you possibly can. Brian, I
Speaker 1: entirely agree with that. But there's no doubt in my
Speaker 1: mind that all of us, you know, UM, not just
Speaker 1: people in positions of authority, although they have a certain weight,
Speaker 1: but every single one of us has the ability to
Speaker 1: interrupt intolerance when it happens, whether it happens at the
Speaker 1: water cooler or over the dinner table, or on the
Speaker 1: playing field or anywhere else for that matter, or in
Speaker 1: your social media feed, like none of us should tolerate intolerance,
Speaker 1: and when we roll our eyes and when we simply
Speaker 1: dismiss it, that's when it takes hold and spreads. So
Speaker 1: from the President to every one of us. We have,
Speaker 1: we have and we should try to stop hey when
Speaker 1: it happens. Jonathan Greenblad, I'm so happy you came by today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, as always for having We'd like
Speaker 1: to thank Jonathan Greenblatt for joining us on such short
Speaker 1: notice to talk about this tragedy. The team that produces
Speaker 1: this podcast and did a great job this week is
Speaker 1: producer Emma Morgan Stern, associate producer Nora Richie, and audio
Speaker 1: engineer Jared O'Connell. Thank you to my assistant Beth Demas,
Speaker 1: my social media producer Julia Lewis, Mark Phillips who wrote
Speaker 1: our theme music, and of course you can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at Katie Curic. I'm spending
Speaker 1: a lot of time on Instagram talking about this tragedy
Speaker 1: and presenting biographies of the people who lost their lives.
Speaker 1: And you can reach out to Bryant on Twitter. His
Speaker 1: handle is Goldsmith B. We'll be back on Thursday for
Speaker 1: a regularly scheduled episode with a look at the upcoming
Speaker 1: midterm elections. Thanks so much, for listening. Let's see you
Speaker 1: next time.