1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome your stephone 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and welcome to another edition of Feminists around the World. 4 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: And we are still in Pride month. Yay, Happy Pride 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: to everyone. We hope you are still keeping safe and 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: sane in the world of loopiness. I feel like there's 7 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: so many ways to say that. And today we are 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: celebrating the amazing works of queer folk all over the world, 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: and we are specifically celebrating trans model, activist, writer and 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 2: trailblazer Monroe Bergdorf. Woo. 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: We feel this should be clapping. I don't know today. 12 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: So Monroe Bergdorf grew up in Essexville. She was born 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: to a Jamaican father and an English mother, who I 14 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: believe were like middle lower class. 15 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 3: I had a pretty normal life. 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: She attended school at the Bishop's Stortford High School and 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: was an elite athletic swimmer, winning a lot of competitions. 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: And though she had a happy time in her primary school, 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: she started feeling ostracized later when she fell out of 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 2: place in high school. She told The Guardian quote, once 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: gender roles were introduced and the girls and boys started dividing. 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: I didn't really have a place because I was too 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: girly for the boys and I wasn't a girl or 24 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: seen as a girl, so I was ostracized and the 25 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: ostracism never stopped until I left high school. She went 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: on to explain that her own family had difficulty accepting 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 2: her gender dysmorphia, which did not help her own struggles 28 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: during her teen and young adult years. Policies like Section 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: twenty eight in England were introduced, which bands schools from 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: quote promoting queerness and homosexuality that in a nineteen ninety 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: nine incident which highlighted the institutional racism within law enforcement 32 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: in London, only made her insecurities and struggles worse, and 33 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: it wasn't until she was able to leave to study 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: at the University of Brighton that she was able to 35 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: be her true self. She told The Guardian, I felt 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: a belong to Brighton. I didn't go to university for 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: reasons of academia. I went to start a different life. 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: And though she started to transition and stepping and living 39 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: into her new life, she still struggled as many trans 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: women do, and her memoir Transitional, she talks of her 41 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: experiences in her life, all the good and bad, including 42 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: being assaulted by men. Here's a quote from that Guardian article. 43 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: In the book, she describes a terrifying sexual assault by 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: a man she met on a night out. When you 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: look at someone and you know they want to kill you, 46 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: and they don't see you as human enough to respect you. 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: When you say no, you don't want to have sex 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: with them and rape you anyway, that just kills a 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: part of you. 50 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: She chokes up. 51 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how I can and see that. I 52 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: still struggle to think of that period because I lost 53 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: all hope after that. I started hating myself a lot 54 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: and entered abusive relationships because I didn't think I deserved 55 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: any more. You went looking for them. I wasn't looking 56 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: for them, but what I was attracted to wasn't healthy. 57 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: I'd see people who would display controlling behavior as somebody 58 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: who cared. I just wasn't in a good place. And 59 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: the quote continues. She says her story is the story 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: of so many trans women, dysfunctional relationships, abuse, seeking solace 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: in drugs and alcohol, mental health collapsing. At one point, 62 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: she was so worried that she called the police to 63 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: protect her from herself. 64 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: Since that time, she's become more active in the trans 65 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: in a queer community, so much so that she was 66 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: referred to as a cornerstone of London's trans scene in 67 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. Her impact in the queer community and the 68 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: modeling community soon led her to be hired by Laurel 69 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: as the first transgender model for the UK campaign in 70 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, but was soon dropped when Bardorf spoke out 71 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: her frustrations after the Charlottesville Virginia Unite the Right rally, 72 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: the white supremacist rally that actually left people injured. Her 73 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: words were to the point and unapologetic, filled with anger 74 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: and despair, as she told The Guardian, quote, well, would 75 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: you expect people who were heavily traumatized by racism to 76 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: be balanced and calm? The idea that people should speak 77 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: about the trauma and oppression they have experienced in a 78 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: way that is digestible for people who don't experience it. 79 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I was angry. We were watching one of 80 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: the most violent displays of racism in history. It was horrendous. 81 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: Of course I was angry. I think I had the 82 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: right to be, and the reactions to it were not 83 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: only damaging but emotionally traumatizing, and she keeps going on 84 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 2: in the interview, saying, when you see the level of 85 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: hatred directed at you, it makes you fearful for your life. 86 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: I was scared to go under the water when I 87 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: was in the bath because I was convinced someone would 88 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 2: hold me under. Things go through your head that you 89 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: would never think of if you hadn't gone through that. 90 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: People said they knew where I lived, that they were 91 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: going to attack me with acid, that they would get 92 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: me when I least expected it. 93 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 1: It was endless, but she I did get some vindication, 94 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: as Loreel not only re hired Burgdorf but publicly apologized 95 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: for their handling of the previous incident. The president of 96 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: Loreel Paris released a statement saying I had an honest, 97 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: transparent and vulnerable conversation with Monroe Bergdorf. We listened to 98 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: each other and shared our feelings and perspectives on the 99 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: situation with open hearts and minds. It was a powerful 100 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: moment of human connection. Here is what I heard from her. 101 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 1: Three years ago. Monroe felt silenced by a brand Royal 102 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: Paris that had the power to amplify her voice. While 103 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: we both agreed today that negative labels should not be 104 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: used to define all individuals in any group. I understand 105 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: much better the pain and trauma that were behind Monroe's 106 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: words back then and the urgency she felt to speak 107 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: in defense of the black community against systemic racism. I 108 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: regret the lack of dialogue and support of the company 109 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: showed Monroe around the time of termination. We should have 110 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: also done more to create a conversation for change, as 111 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: we are now doing. We support Monroe's fight against systemic racism, 112 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: and as a company, we are committed to work to 113 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: dismantle such systems. 114 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: And though she did struggle with the negativity and backlash 115 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: at the time she was going through the controversy, she 116 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: still continued to push in her fight for the rights 117 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: for the trans community at the time, as more attacks 118 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 2: on trans women seem to be happening, Bergdorf has been 119 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: right there to keep fighting, and she's not surprised by 120 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: the continued pushback and weaponizing of the trans community. She 121 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: told The Guardian this, whenever there are gains made for 122 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: marginalized communities, there's always a pushback. Just before black people 123 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: gained civil rights, there was a war. There's definitely a 124 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: war on trans people. It's not a civil war, but 125 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: it is a war within the media. It's a war 126 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 2: on trans people, and we are fighting literally for our lives. 127 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: And she goes on in another article written by GQ, 128 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: when we see progress from a marginalized community at speed, 129 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: there will be pushback with hashtag B two and times 130 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: up the ongoing conversations surrounding misogyny. There are people who 131 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: felt disenfranchised by that because they don't know who they 132 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: are without it. You give them a platform and they 133 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: find other people who don't know who they are, and 134 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: you end up with Andrew Tate. It's exactly the same 135 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: with the chance conversation. There's a lot of people who'd 136 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: rather chastise other people without asking themselves who they are. 137 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 3: A lot of it is projection. 138 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: And she has used her memoir as a beacon of 139 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: hope for those who may be having a hard time 140 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: with all the negativity and hate that are aimed at 141 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: the trans community. She says about her book, she hopes 142 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: that it will quote change the trajectory of young trans 143 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: folk hating themselves and feeling alone. It feels good to 144 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: have taken a fair amount of pain and confusion and 145 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: sadness and turned it into something that I hope will 146 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: empower them. It'll be here when I'm dead and gone. 147 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: And Bergdorff's hard work has been recognized. She has been 148 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: awarded the Gay Times Honor for British Community Trail Baser 149 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: for the fifth annual Gay Times Honor celebration in London 150 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, featured as one of the cover 151 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: stars for the Honors edition of Gay Time Times magazine, 152 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: named change Maker of the Year in twenty eighteen by 153 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: Cosmopolitan UK, and was the first transgender person to be 154 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: featured on the cover of the magazine, which was for 155 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary issue. 156 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: Right, and obviously, as we said, she has a memoir 157 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: that was released this year. I'm sure it's going to 158 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: be amazing. We should probably put that on our list 159 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: as well. And yeah, we just want to celebrate the 160 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: amazing work she does and continues to do, and congratulate 161 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: her on her amazing accomplishments. 162 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 3: And we're there with her in the fight. 163 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, I'm sure We'll 164 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: be checking back in on this. I love how many 165 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: our book club lists is so long and so varied, 166 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: but also listeners. We love getting your suggestions for this 167 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: segment or any other segments. You can email us Atephania 168 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: moom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us 169 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Mamsta podcast or on Instagram and TikTok 170 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: at Stuffan Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We 171 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: also have a tea public store. It has new merged 172 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: what What, And we also have a book that you 173 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: can pre order at stuff you Should read Books dot com. 174 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: If we sound a little rusty, it's because we've been 175 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: doing our audio book and it was a different experience, 176 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: so we're recovering from that. And yes, thanks as always 177 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: too our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and 178 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: our contributor Joey. Thank you all, and thanks to you 179 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff I Never Told You's abecttion of iHeartRadio. 180 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check 181 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: out the art radio app, Apple podcast or where you 182 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.