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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nola.

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Speaker 3: They called me Bed. We're joyed with our guest super

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Speaker 3: producer returning, Max white Pants Williams. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Look,

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Speaker 3: the world is full of increasingly bizarre stories. Now are

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Speaker 3: there more than there were in the past? Or is

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Speaker 3: it just easier to find them? That's a question for

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Speaker 3: another evening. What we do know is it could be

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Speaker 3: tough to keep track of everything. That's why many people

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Speaker 3: in the West. We're probably surprised to learn that the

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Speaker 3: president of Venezuela came out on social media and in

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Speaker 3: official press releases pretty recently and said that he might

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Speaker 3: just you know, f around and invade the neighboring, much

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Speaker 3: smaller nation of Guyana. Paul, have that rewind? What here

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Speaker 3: are the facts? I don't know, like we all heard

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Speaker 3: of Guiana or we've all heard of Venezuela. Maybe we

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Speaker 3: start there because we haven't. I don't think a lot

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Speaker 3: of people think about Guyana.

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Speaker 4: I just know French Guiana. Is that the same thing

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Speaker 4: or is that a different gap, that's a different place.

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Speaker 4: I only know it because of the French attached to it,

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Speaker 4: because I'm such a you know, western minded fool.

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Speaker 5: This this was well known in some circles as British

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Speaker 5: Guiana for a long time before it became independent. There's

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Speaker 5: actually a ton to learn about Venezuela, Ben. I think

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Speaker 5: I think most people don't know anything about Venezuela either.

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Speaker 6: I mean again, for me, it's mainly the name.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, yeah, Venezuela, if we think back, was

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Speaker 5: in the news quite a bit when Hugshaves was running it,

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Speaker 5: and there was like tension between the US and Venezuela

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Speaker 5: right largely around oil and how it is traded with

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Speaker 5: what currency? Remember that everybody.

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Speaker 3: Right shout out confessions of an economic hit man exactly.

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Speaker 5: But I, you know, I just I was looking through

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Speaker 5: the old CIA World fact Book again and just looking

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Speaker 5: at how little I know actually about Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: You say, video out online yet not.

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Speaker 2: Yet I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Well, we've got a little little teaser for that

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Speaker 4: very book coming out on the social media's keep an

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Speaker 4: eye out.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, it's just it's something. It's something you can

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Speaker 5: look at online. By the way, you don't need a

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Speaker 5: physical book the World fact Book, check it out.

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Speaker 3: I would also fact check the CIA's claimed facts.

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Speaker 2: Oh definitely, yes.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we've mentioned in the video that they are the

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Speaker 5: opinions and facts about the world.

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Speaker 4: Well, if there's nothing that we've learned doing this show,

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Speaker 4: and hopefully you out there listening to the show, is

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Speaker 4: to always double check the quote unquote facts, triple check

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Speaker 4: if you can.

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Speaker 3: I want to shout out to one of my favorite

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Speaker 3: talk shows of all time, which was Ugo chav is

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Speaker 3: alo Presidente, where, yeah, he had a talk show that

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Speaker 3: would go however long he wanted it to go. Where

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Speaker 3: in the midst of being sort of a despot. You

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Speaker 3: could see clips on this on YouTube. I think he would.

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Speaker 3: He would set up in kind of like somewhere between

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Speaker 3: a radio thing and an Oprah Wimfrey thing, and he

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Speaker 3: would just take what I can only imagine are very

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Speaker 3: closely screened calls from the populace.

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Speaker 6: It's funny.

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Speaker 4: It reminds me of a thing that happens in the

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Speaker 4: movie Casino, where eighth Rothstein played by Robert de Niro,

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Speaker 4: sort of gets deposed because he do to legal struggles,

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Speaker 4: he can't do his casino manager job, so that he's

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Speaker 4: give him this talk show where he just takes potshots

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Speaker 4: and like the governmental entities that are preventing him from

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Speaker 4: doing the job he really wants to do.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 5: But the whole thing about the about Venezuela is that

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Speaker 5: it has such a rot history in you know, coups

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Speaker 5: and fights for power and which ended up in I

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Speaker 5: think it was ninety nine when Hugo Chavez was elected

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Speaker 5: president and then he lasted until he passed away in

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Speaker 5: twenty thirteen of cancer from cancer that he alleged was

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Speaker 5: you know, done to him by some powers in the West.

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Speaker 5: And then you get Nicholas Maduro, who was his number

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Speaker 5: two in command, and he has been in power since then.

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Speaker 3: Ever since and shows no signs of abdicating.

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Speaker 4: A good quick question, do we have any proof of

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Speaker 4: giving someone cancer as an assassination tool?

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Speaker 3: Is that a thing that has to be possible? Will

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Speaker 3: cancer again? Is such an umbrella?

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Speaker 6: It's a revolution carcinogens perhaps over time.

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Speaker 5: Well, I in my mind, it's more like in a

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Speaker 5: radiated substance like a small amollium.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, shows exactly.

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Speaker 5: Need a tiny amount once it gets into your system

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Speaker 5: and like attaches to your body and there she goes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. The issue with that kind of attack on someone

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Speaker 3: really is predictability, like you don't know, you know, novelty

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Speaker 3: or navalny. For instance, when he got polodium poisoning, it

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Speaker 3: didn't kill him. But yeah, so log answer short, we

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Speaker 3: know people have probably attempted it, just because over the

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Speaker 3: course of targeted killings, people have tried pretty much anything

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Speaker 3: you could imagine.

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Speaker 4: Makes perfect sense of just that kind of claim by

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Speaker 4: such a you know, unilateral despot like you mentioned, strikes

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Speaker 4: me as the stuff of paranoia to a degree. But

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Speaker 4: I do understand what you're saying that it's certainly as

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Speaker 4: possible good to clarify.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: Well, he had reason to be paranoid, I would say.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, also, people do just get cancer.

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Speaker 4: So how about we get a little bit of a

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Speaker 4: rundown of some of the stats surrounding Venezuela first, and

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Speaker 4: then we'll move on to the one that maybe people

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Speaker 4: know even less about.

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Speaker 3: Yep. So Venezuela. The full name is the Bolivarian Republic

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Speaker 3: of Venezuela. It's pretty big, especially it's the goliath to

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Speaker 3: the David of Guiata. It's about nine hundred and sixteen

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Speaker 3: issue square clicks population in twenty nine million, so smaller

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Speaker 3: than the US for comparison. It is an opponent of

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Speaker 3: many US regimes. That's one thing both sides of the

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Speaker 3: US political aisle agreed upon for many years. That's why

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Speaker 3: most of this stuff you see about Venezuela and Western

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Speaker 3: news is going to look at economic woes, inflation, shortages,

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Speaker 3: speculation in oil, allegations of massive corruption. And Venezuela is

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Speaker 3: a particular interest to the powers that be in Latin

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Speaker 3: America and across the world because it has the largest

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Speaker 3: oil reserves on the planet.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy more than Saudi Arabia?

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Speaker 3: Sorry, KSA.

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Speaker 4: What's crazier too, is still is that we people don't

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Speaker 4: seem to know that in.

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Speaker 5: General, Well, it isn't talked about in the same way

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Speaker 5: as it is about the Middle East. Well, and it's

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Speaker 5: really interesting because the United States very publicly entered the

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Speaker 5: Middle East several times over the course of the last

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Speaker 5: thirty forty years. It's like, it's weird in that we

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Speaker 5: haven't entered Venezuela in the same way. There's been some actions, right,

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Speaker 5: but never a war or anything like that.

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Speaker 4: Is our relationship a little cozier with South America in general?

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Speaker 7: Or is that over a gross generalization cozy the way

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Speaker 7: like an abusive step fig has a cozy relationship with

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Speaker 7: their kids.

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Speaker 3: Ah dear, there are a lot they live in the

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Speaker 3: same house. There are a lot of beatings and a

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Speaker 3: lot of opinions about what the kids can can or

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Speaker 3: cannot do.

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Speaker 4: Last question maybe beyond the scope of today's episode, but

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Speaker 4: I couldn't help but notice the Bolivarian part. Bolivia is

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Speaker 4: of course also quite a large country in South America,

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Speaker 4: but it's on the opposite border.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's not about Bolivia, no connection at all.

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Speaker 5: It's it's really interesting and again it's just it's like

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Speaker 5: world history that maybe we were taught at some point

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Speaker 5: but probably has left most of our minds. Just about

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Speaker 5: how when Colombia was officially formed, I think Ecuador and

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Speaker 5: Venezuela there it was one state that was then broken.

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Speaker 2: Up at one point.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, Bolivarian revolution, there's a whole history to that

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 3: Simon Bolivar, the Venezuelan leader who led what are now

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Speaker 3: some of those countries you named, matt and the guy's

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Speaker 3: a legend in his time. He was instrumental in the

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Speaker 3: escape from colonialism, the move toward independence for these countries.

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Speaker 5: It was Columbia. By the way, I misspoke. I named

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Speaker 5: one of the countries wrong. But Colombia was the other

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Speaker 5: country that was formed.

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Speaker 3: Ah, yes, it's no. I think you got like Peru, Panama, Bolivia,

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Speaker 3: to Ecuador, Venezuela, Venezuela's made what well, yeah, it was the.

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Speaker 5: One that formed Venezuela to anyway, I got somewhere wrong.

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Speaker 2: You have to look it up because I don't know

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Speaker 2: my stuff.

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Speaker 3: So well, it's independence from the Spanish Empire. That's our

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Speaker 3: big takeaway. That's the shadow of colonialism looms large. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't the US this time. It was a fight against

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Speaker 3: these European powers and something similar happened with Guyana. Giada

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Speaker 3: is right next door. Pull up a world map, play

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Speaker 3: along at home. It's fascinating because if you look at

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Speaker 3: a digital map, you'll see the mileage may vary, but anyway,

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Speaker 3: this place full name Cooperative Republic of Guiata. You hear

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Speaker 3: about it way less often the west, and to be honest,

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Speaker 3: there's not a ding on anyone. A lot of folks

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Speaker 3: might have a tough time finding it on a world map.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's confusing because like there are three countries

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Speaker 3: named some variation of Guinea, and there's French Guiana, and

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Speaker 3: then there's this Guiana which is spelled differently. Like it

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Speaker 3: gets confusing. It's an understandable thing. Also, this is a

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Speaker 3: blink and you miss it country. If you're looking at

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Speaker 3: the entirety of South America, it's eighty bitty thing. It's

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Speaker 3: the third smallest country on that continent. I think the

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Speaker 3: only smaller ones are Surinam, which is right next door,

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Speaker 3: and Uruguay. And this place. Even though it's very very tiny,

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Speaker 3: it's also one of the least densely populated countries on

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Speaker 3: the planet. Very rural, high, high amount of wilderness, jungle biodiversity,

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Speaker 3: and it's all packed into just like eighty three thousand

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Speaker 3: square miles two hundred and fifty thousand kilometers. It's it's

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Speaker 3: weird though, because like the digital map, if you guys

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Speaker 3: pull it up, anybody playing along at home, if you

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Speaker 3: pull it up now on your let's say you go

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Speaker 3: to Google Maps or Google Earth. When you look at

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Speaker 3: the map of Guiana, you'll see that it has a

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Speaker 3: typical border demarcating the country, but then a little bit

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Speaker 3: to the right of center, it has another thing that

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Speaker 3: looks like a borderline. It's as if you looked at

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Speaker 3: a map of the US and the Mississippi was also

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Speaker 3: somehow an international border.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it is.

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Speaker 5: It is the the river, right, the Escuba River. Okay,

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Speaker 5: So that's gonna factor in heavily as we continue through

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Speaker 5: the story, which again we can't stress enough. If you

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Speaker 5: look at it, Ben isn't joking. It goes through and

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Speaker 5: cuts this thing well in over half. So so most

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Speaker 5: of the country of Guana is to the west of.

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Speaker 2: That line, and of Venezuela.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. Okay, let's just let's keep that in mind.

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Speaker 3: So, no matter what the news might imply, these two

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Speaker 3: countries have a long history of not quite getting along.

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Speaker 3: Guiata also is they. I think it was first Dutch,

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Speaker 3: then the British were running stuff. And just like the Falklands,

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Speaker 3: the British Empire still has its vestiges active. So when

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Speaker 3: our boy Maduro comes out and says, hey, this is Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: It's always been Venezuela. He's harkening back to earlier stuff.

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Speaker 3: He didn't just like, what's that drug that makes people

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Speaker 3: that made people talk trash on Twitter? Ambient geez, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what it was.

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Speaker 4: Like, Well, it makes you, It makes you make weird

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Speaker 4: sandwiches in the night and also apparently say things that

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Speaker 4: you regret and have no recollection.

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Speaker 3: Of if you're a celebrity who had a bad day

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Speaker 3: on Twitter.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my mom used to take Ambient and we get

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Speaker 4: home and we stayed with her briefly when my kid

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Speaker 4: was born. We come home from being out and that

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Speaker 4: she'd be up making like peanut butter and mustard sandwiches

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Speaker 4: and talking absolute nonsense.

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Speaker 3: I'll try the I'll try a peanut butter mustard sandwich.

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Speaker 3: Who knows, but but you're right like this this statement

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Speaker 3: he's making. As wild as it may sound, it does

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Speaker 3: refer back to a centuries long dispute. This border territory

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Speaker 3: around the river. You mentioned, Matt the Escuba River, it's

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Speaker 3: sixty two thousand square miles, and they said, look, that's Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: It's always been Venezuela, why are you playing? They tried

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Speaker 3: to gas light an entire country, actually two entire countries.

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Speaker 5: Well, and just listen to that number. Sixty two thousand

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Speaker 5: square miles of area. All of Guyana is eighty three

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Speaker 5: thousand square miles, right, So that's like, we'll take half

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Speaker 5: your country plus oh you know what, how about a

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Speaker 5: whole let's take another third.

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Speaker 3: It's like Canada say, we've looked at the map and

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Speaker 3: based on our objective estimate, everything north of Tennessee in

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Speaker 3: a straight line is actually Canada. Yeah, you have three

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Speaker 3: months to move.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a nuts thing to

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Speaker 5: even state, right, even if it is going back to this,

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Speaker 5: you know, the eighteen one hundreds, eighteen ninety nine or

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Speaker 5: eighteen thirty, going way back, it's still crazy to come

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Speaker 5: forward and just say, yo, most of your countries are

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Speaker 5: is actually right?

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Speaker 3: The jewels, they also said, you know, because what's the

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Speaker 3: deal with that? Why do a half measure? They also said,

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Speaker 3: And the water offshore is also ours. Has also been

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Speaker 3: part of this, and that's because during the Latin American

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Speaker 3: Wars of Independence, which you mentioned earlier, Venezuela pulled a

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Speaker 3: game of thrones, little finger move and said chaos is

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Speaker 3: a ladder, and they did claim about two thirds of

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Speaker 3: Kiana's land, but they got caught and they couldn't do

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Speaker 3: it because everybody else was like, come on, man, we're

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Speaker 3: supposed to be the good guys in this narrative.

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Speaker 5: That's sort of a dick move, dude. But there's this

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Speaker 5: whole other thing, and I don't know, ben, are we

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Speaker 5: going to get into it. There's this whole thing where

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Speaker 5: this whole process that we're talking about, and decades and

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Speaker 5: decades centuries of dispute here is actually one of the

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Speaker 5: primary things that sets the United States up as a

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Speaker 5: world power because of this. In the dispute, the US

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Speaker 5: basically stepped up to the United Kingdom, to Great Britain

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Speaker 5: and said, actually, no, the Monroe Doctrine is the way

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Speaker 5: to go and this is the way the border should be.

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Speaker 5: And they were like, man, we should fight a war

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Speaker 5: with you. But they were also like, uh, actually, we

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Speaker 5: can't really fight another war right now, so all right,

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Speaker 5: you can have it.

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Speaker 3: Because their resources were expended across the globe, it's expensive

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Speaker 3: to project force like that, which is also part of

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Speaker 3: the story.

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Speaker 5: Right, but it's one of the reasons. The United States

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Speaker 5: kind of as again as though it's an entity of itself,

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Speaker 5: the powers within the United States, the leaders decided, oh,

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Speaker 5: we can, actually we can have a say in some

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Speaker 5: of these global things like disputes like this.

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Speaker 3: M yeah, and become more internationalists. And then also let

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Speaker 3: us not forget millions upon millions of people are living

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Speaker 3: in Latin America and they're going, hey, we're also in

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Speaker 3: the room.

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Speaker 2: We live.

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Speaker 3: This is actually our room. Ye gays are fighting over

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Speaker 3: why did these guys break into our house and start

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Speaker 3: arguing about.

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Speaker 2: The you know, the ungshways off in here?

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Speaker 3: Whatly, so you're referring to, we're referring to something called

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Speaker 3: the Arbitral Award of eighteen ninety nine. Sorry a messed

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Speaker 3: up name. Guiana is still part of the British Empire.

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Speaker 3: And they say they go back to this constantly, and

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Speaker 3: they say, look, that's the agreement. Remember when these Europeans

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Speaker 3: came in and did everything surveyed the land, surveyed the land,

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Speaker 3: which was a big, big deal. Shout out to Ridiculous

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Speaker 3: History episodes there. We saw immediately that Venezuela bucked at this.

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Speaker 3: They actually called it quote an Anglo Russian conspiracy, so

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Speaker 3: they are the first to allege conspiracy, even though colonialism

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Speaker 3: is a conspiracy. By nineteen sixty two, they said, okay, guys,

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Speaker 3: enough time has passed. That decision was bs. We don't

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Speaker 3: respect it because this has always been Venezuela. You know,

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Speaker 3: aren't you fighting those European colonists with us? What happened

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Speaker 3: to unity? Give us all your stuff?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Well, should we also bring up just the idea of resources.

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Speaker 5: We mentioned that Venezuela has the largest oil It is

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Speaker 5: the most oil rich country on the planet.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 5: Then, Also that was found in Venezuela, and especially in

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Speaker 5: this region that's in dispute is gold.

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Speaker 3: Ah, yes, yeah, the resource curse is true.

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Speaker 5: Right, And so they gave it sixty years and then

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Speaker 5: they're like, hmm, there's gold over there.

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Speaker 2: You said, well we need to we need to look

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Speaker 2: at this again.

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Speaker 3: Also, yes, similar to the Darien Gap. You know, when

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Speaker 3: you have that much jungle coverage, it's very difficult to

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Speaker 3: build infrastructure and it's very difficult to enforce laws. So

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of smuggling operations, a lot of illegal

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Speaker 3: mining operations, and those mining operations, the illegal ones have

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Speaker 3: a lot of powerful entities who want them to continue

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Speaker 3: the big They're not fighting over, you know, OSHA standards

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Speaker 3: or workers' rights. They're fighting over who gets that stuff

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Speaker 3: pulled from the ground, shout out black Monday murders.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Well, then a little spoiler here.

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Speaker 5: What happens if you, as a country that is not

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Speaker 5: officially in control of that land, starts giving like citizenship

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Speaker 5: to people who are living in on that land. All right, well, no,

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Speaker 5: well they are actually our citizens living over.

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Speaker 2: There, right?

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Speaker 5: What this this thing gets so twisted?

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Speaker 3: Or you start giving concessions legal rights to mine to

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Speaker 3: private entities, and you just it happens to be for

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Speaker 3: a country that is not yours, the soil that is

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00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 3: not part of your thing. So it's getting nasty. The

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00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 3: idea is there for several decades at different times Venezuela

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Speaker 3: was saying, well, why don't we just behave as though

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Speaker 3: it is Venezuela, and then eventually we can not just

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Speaker 3: gas like Yiana. But the world that.

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Speaker 6: Works long term?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, if I keep showing up to that like

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Speaker 3: squatters rights, they're doing squatters rights. If I keep showing

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Speaker 3: up to this else long enough, someone will say it's mine.

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Speaker 4: Well, It's one of those rhetorical devices too, where if

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Speaker 4: you repeat the lie long enough and with enough confidence,

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Speaker 4: maybe it'll take people will start to believe it as

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00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,199
Speaker 4: the truth and not you know, fact check you like

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00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 4: we recommended doing, but it seems like an awful risky move.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so we said then in the sixties, so that

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Speaker 5: was eighteen ninety nine all the way up to like

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Speaker 5: or the early nineteen sixties, right, that that was a

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00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 5: span of time when Venezuela just said, Okay, we'll just

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Speaker 5: deal with these borders as they are. In nineteen sixty

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Speaker 5: two they said, actually, we have a problem. Then in

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Speaker 5: nineteen sixty six they took it to the United Nations,

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00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 5: right or wait, well they took.

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Speaker 3: Into still bodies.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they took it to international bodies. I know, the

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00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 5: United Nations or the UN started stepping in early in

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Speaker 5: the process to try and negotiate, to be almost a

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Speaker 5: middle man for the negotiations. And you guys, it hasn't

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Speaker 5: stopped since nineteen what sixty six.

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Speaker 3: Yes, since nineteen sixty six, when the UK of Venezuelan

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00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 3: and Guyana sent representatives together to try to map out

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00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 3: the borders. And the problem is in any negotiation. If

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00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 3: you're not if you're negotiating good faith, there has to

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00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 3: be some give and take. Turned out that wasn't the case,

379
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 3: and so the Venezuelan government, under different iterations, had one constant,

380
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 3: which was to to try to deep power Guyana internationally,

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00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 3: like prevent them from being members of the of the

382
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 3: like the OAS or the United Nations. Try to keep

383
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 3: them out of touching on any judiciary bodies internationally, like

384
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Speaker 3: the ICJ International Court of Justice. It's a dumb name,

385
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 3: but they tried to do good work. And this just

386
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 3: went back and forth over and over until Venezuela said, ah,

387
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 3: we might just invade. We had a little kind of

388
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 3: rigged vote about it. They are essentially saying, if the

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00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: courts and the world at large won't give us all

390
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 3: the stuff we want, we are just going to take it.

391
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 3: That is a very, very what we call it diplomacy.

392
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 3: It is a provocative statement. It is somewhat bellicose, and

393
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 3: it carries a lot of possible consequence and costs. So

394
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 3: they had to decide it was worth it. Why why

395
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 3: did they make this wild ass decision or even bring

396
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 3: it up. We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor.

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00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets grazy gold, but not just gold oil,

398
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 3: black gold, Texas, tea, et cetera. The gunk that to

399
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 3: this day moves the modern world.

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00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 5: Ye, well, all the golds, all the golds.

401
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 3: All of the all the gold.

402
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 6: You can imagine, black gold makes me want to whoop

403
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 6: and holler.

404
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, it's you know, Beverly Hillbillies for anybody unfamiliar,

405
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 3: has a neat, catchy little Hollywood Hillbilly theme which was

406
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 3: an intro.

407
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 4: So it's only one of those ones that describes the

408
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 4: plot of the show in the right.

409
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 3: That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, it's like the Nanny,

410
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 3: It's like the Mister Belvedere stuffs. I enjoy those much

411
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 3: more than the actual show.

412
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 6: Of course, to.

413
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 4: Those in the know, is often referred to as the

414
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 4: New Guitar and Venezuela reactivated that claim to the territory

415
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 4: after finding some eleven billion barrels of oil, recoverable oil

416
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 4: and natural gas off of Guyana's coast. So the government

417
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 4: then held a super controversial referendum on this issue in

418
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 4: December and early December last year.

419
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Speaker 3: And that was after Guyana had gone to the Guiana

420
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 3: knew this was coming. It's just it was originally called

421
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 3: a referendum. Means that if they're enacted in good faith,

422
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 3: the government is asking the people, hey, what do you

423
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: guys think about this? Right, Like they're saying, hey, kids,

424
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: who want pizza? Or do we want you know, we

425
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 3: want to get lasagna or something. However, this is not

426
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 3: a There's some serious problems, as you mentioned, with the

427
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 3: referendum itself, and it goes super deep in the weeds

428
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 3: because people have been looking at this. Giada was trying

429
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 3: to get international bodies not to allow this referendum to happen. Sorry,

430
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: kind of tricky, right. It's like how South Korea has

431
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 3: this law that says, if you are South Korea national,

432
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 3: you can't gamble anywhere in the world.

433
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 2: Did you know that?

434
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 3: That's so crazy? I don't know how you enforced that.

435
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 5: I don't know, man, but I've been I keep thinking

436
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 5: about how nuts this would be if it was just

437
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 5: two neighbors right in a house, like one house next

438
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 5: to the other house and one one You guys have

439
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 5: always had problems with where the fence should be, you know, right, Yeah,

440
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 5: But like all of a sudden, one of the neighbors

441
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 5: discovers like incredible stuff in their backyard, like, oh my god,

442
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 5: there's this cave system on there and there's resources inside it.

443
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 5: And the neighbors like, actually, we're gonna have a little vote,

444
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 5: and I think that's actually mine.

445
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, you come downstairs.

446
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 5: Ye, we are going to vote in our house about

447
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 5: your terrihouse.

448
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

449
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: And it's it's crazy because when people who do election

450
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: monitoring looked at this, they found they found the number

451
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 3: Venezuela offered to the world, which was ninety five percent

452
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 3: approval to take over this part of Guiana. They found

453
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 3: that that just didn't hold up, and it looked like

454
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: it looked like if it was ninety five percent of voters,

455
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 3: it was less than ten percent of the population. So

456
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 3: you have to you have to be careful with those statistics.

457
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 5: And well, and it's almost like having a vote on

458
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 5: whether or not we should go to war basically, and

459
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 5: so like, what does that have to do with anybody

460
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 5: else besides your own country deciding it's going to go

461
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: to war.

462
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: That's also doing the war vote at sea pack, you know,

463
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 3: or at like at a aerospace defense industry meeting. And

464
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: so I like, okay, you guys vote.

465
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 2: Though, yeah, yeah, yea, yeah.

466
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 5: We just needs she checked the temp of the old

467
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 5: room here exactly all your weapons manufacturers.

468
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 3: Or I read something recently. I can't remember what it was,

469
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: so it was a more conservative publication where they had this.

470
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 3: They were like, this report shows that, as a matter

471
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: of fact, workers are very excited about returning to the office.

472
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 3: And I looked into it, and the study was conducted

473
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 3: by an architectural firm that builds offices, So you gotta

474
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 3: look at that stuff. Anyway. Giata is already having a

475
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: game changing moment with this oil because one of the

476
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: important words there we don't want to miss is recoverable.

477
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 3: You can get this stuff out and still make a

478
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 3: profit off of it. So there are other places in

479
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: the world where there's a ton of some sort of

480
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,479
Speaker 3: fossil fuel, but it's just right now too expensive to

481
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: get it, and.

482
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 5: Or you have to use something like fracking exclusively to

483
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 5: get to it, right, which is not as great as

484
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 5: just being able to get that oil. Get at that oil,

485
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 5: let's say, in more traditional ways.

486
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, Beverly hillbilly style. Yeah, put a spike in

487
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 3: the ground and then build a little, a neat, little

488
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: mini and build an oil Derek around it. But I

489
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: was going to call it the mini Eiffel Tower. That

490
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 3: doesn't work. Right now, Guyana is creating four hundred thousand

491
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 3: something barrels per day of oil and gas, and they're

492
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 3: going to make more than one million barrels per day

493
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: very soon in twenty twenty seven. So this is huge

494
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: for small country's economy and it's going to change people's

495
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: lives in a measurable way. The question is, you know,

496
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: if we're all neighbors, if we survived colonialism, if we

497
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 3: have a shared history of fighting for independence, well, Venezuela,

498
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 3: are you being a hater? Like why why are you

499
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: flipping the script? Don't you don't you literally have more

500
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 3: oil than anybody in the world already. It's it's a

501
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: weird question, like why is this? Why is this the fight?

502
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 3: Part of it is because the US has made it

503
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: very expensive and costly for the Venezuelan government to exist.

504
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: Production in oil has fallen significantly. There are all kinds

505
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: of allegations of corruption. The infrastructure is bad. You know,

506
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: people who can leave Venezuela, and I'm sure we have

507
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 3: a lot of Venezuelan listeners today people who can leave

508
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 3: Venezuela have been doing so on mass it's just very

509
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 3: difficult to live there now.

510
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know something I was thinking about this morning,

511
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 5: you guys, I didn't know. Guyana is the only predominantly

512
00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 5: English speaking country in South America. Yeah, which for look,

513
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 5: and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's major strategic interest

514
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 5: by you know, the United States and the UK and

515
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 5: other Western governments, but it feels as though maybe that's

516
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 5: enough of a reason to really want to support the

517
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 5: independence and continued growth of Guyana versus a country like Venezuela.

518
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 5: Just when I'm thinking, Sorry, this is kind of random

519
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 5: thought here, but I'm just I'm imagining as all of

520
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 5: this is heating up, like maybe maybe there is some

521
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 5: kind of strategic interest that is simply based in the

522
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 5: language of the people spoken in Guyana.

523
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 3: That's part of it. Yeah, there's that colonial well, there's

524
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 3: that history, right, so they are part of the anglosphere

525
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: I would advance. Also, maybe that is a facet of

526
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: the larger thing, which is Guyana is a US friendly country.

527
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

528
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 3: If Guyana has access to that oil, then all of

529
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: a sudden, it's much easy. It's easier to work with

530
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: them than it is to say, work with some of

531
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: our friends out east, or you know, these other things.

532
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: And now, of course, obviously the US creates its own oil,

533
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: its own fossil fuels. But it's you know, it's nice

534
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: to have someone that you could have a cool conversation with,

535
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: or whatever America sees is that instead of a instead

536
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 3: of a thing that could almost always go sideways. So

537
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: I think that's maybe part of it. But also when

538
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 3: we look at Venezuela's motivations, sure you already got all

539
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: the oil in the world, don't you want a little more?

540
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: I mean you could. They could definitely use the cash.

541
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 3: It would definitely bolster the reputation of the Maduro government.

542
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: I posit that is one of the big big things.

543
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: I think that might be the actual thing, because he's

544
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 3: coming down hard. He said, Guiana can't sell the rights

545
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: to explore or drill for oil here. He also did

546
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: not say specifically which areas of Guiata should be under control.

547
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: Everybody knows what he's talking about, but he doesn't want

548
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: to like paint himself into a corner. Instead, he said,

549
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: without telling you exactly, which areas I think are Venezuela.

550
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: If you are working with Guiata in the oil trade.

551
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: Right now, you have three months to leave gt FO

552
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: and the clock is ticket.

553
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

554
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 3: And these are the big boys too. These are like

555
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: the BPS, the exons, et cetera.

556
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 4: If an invasion were to occur, however, Guyana would not

557
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 4: be in.

558
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 6: A very advantageous position. I believe the term he used

559
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 6: ben in the research was thick.

560
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

561
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 4: Their army is just about five thousand strong, meaning that

562
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 4: they would be very quickly overtaken unless a much larger

563
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 4: power came to their aid.

564
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

565
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 5: And the thing that is in dispute right is offshore.

566
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 5: So if you imagine the if you look at Gion

567
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 5: on the map, just the northern border right is the ocean.

568
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: Right.

569
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 5: And as we know, naval naval powers are very strong

570
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 5: in countries often that have large oil supplies. Doesn't mean

571
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 5: that Venezuela's naval, you know, force.

572
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: Is the strongest.

573
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 5: The US is is like how I forget how many

574
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 5: times stronger the US Navy is than any other country.

575
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: But it's insane.

576
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: The US Navy is crazy. It's the uh, it's the

577
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 3: US Navy is the world's second largest air force, in

578
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: addition to be the first is the USAF.

579
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 5: So, but they don't even really factor into here. It's

580
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 5: just like Venezuela has a lot of coastline, has a

581
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 5: lot of shipping, has a lot of reasons to have

582
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 5: very strong forces on the water, and if they were to,

583
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 5: you know, have a dispute and an actual hot war,

584
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 5: they would be coming in so much, not even just

585
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 5: the five thousand member army, but the ships and the

586
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 5: weapons that would be that Guiana would be facing would

587
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 5: be tremendous.

588
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the army for Venezuela, I think as of

589
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 3: like nineteen twenty, nineteen twenty twenty, it's like three hundred

590
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: and forty three thousand versus five.

591
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 5: Thousand, little significant.

592
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: It's tough. It's tough. And again that's not a ding

593
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: on the people in Guyana's arm services. That's just the math,

594
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: and the math is scary. So, like you're saying, a

595
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: larger power would have to step into help to prevent

596
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: this from being an absolute, just one sided massacre, honestly, well.

597
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and there are only so many candidates

598
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 4: for who that larger power might be.

599
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: Right exactly, because we can name some people who won't

600
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: come in to help. China, Russia, properly. I don't know.

601
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: Brazil is a very interesting question for this.

602
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 5: One because just as a reminder of the geography there,

603
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 5: they are just south like all you know, Brazil has

604
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 5: so many different states within it, but the entirety of

605
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 5: Brazil is below Guyana and Venezuela.

606
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: And Lula wants to maintain peace in the region, right,

607
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: so they would definitely have a stake in this. We

608
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: haven't mentioned the president of Guyana yet. Irfan Ali Ali

609
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: is going through. Ali knows all this obviously and is

610
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: going through the correct theoretical. International channels went to the

611
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: United Nations International Court of Justice, talked to the UN

612
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 3: Security General and it's like, hey, Maduro is unhinged, guys,

613
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: we need something to happen here. Here is my country, Guyana.

614
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: We're playing by the rules. We're doing everything we were

615
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: told we should do. Help and so we can say

616
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: at this point no invasion has occurred. However, it for

617
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: quite some time it seemed very close. We'll have some

618
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: good news at the end. But right now it's sort

619
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 3: of like if there were a doomsday clock for this,

620
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 3: the world would have been at two minutes to midnight.

621
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 3: And in late December, the United Kingdom dispatched a Royal

622
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 3: Navy Patrol vessel to Guyana just to sort of swim

623
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 3: around the waters like in simulation games, like in Civilization,

624
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: you want to repel other forces, so you just start

625
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: sort of putting your boats out, you know, putting your

626
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 3: troops out in these different areas. Kind of like holding

627
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: a parking space in a crowded mall. When people used

628
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: to go to malls, but now the question with guns,

629
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: but with very launch guns.

630
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 4: Kind of like going to a mall in Texas today.

631
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: I love going to mall. I'm a mallwalker. I love

632
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 4: a dead mall too, or a dying mall. That's sort

633
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 4: of an interesting.

634
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 3: I'm okay with those because they're less crowd that's fair. Yeah,

635
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: the North of Cabmall here indicator is a good example.

636
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 3: Number one spot for Bollywood films.

637
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna say this, The borrow game at dead

638
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 5: Mall's is kind of weak, so I'm not really into it.

639
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 3: It's advantages, disadvantages, pros cons cost benefit. I say, with

640
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: that in mind, let's pause for word from our sponsors

641
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 3: and get to one of the big questions. Why now?

642
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 3: All right? Why now? Might be saying well, because of

643
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: the oil dummies. The oil discovery is new, but itself

644
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 3: it's not that new. Instead of a conspiracy to control

645
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: more of the fossil fuel market, it feels like the

646
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 3: conspiracy here is to shore up Maduro's government and get

647
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: the people to support them, because there we're serious problems

648
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 3: with that vote. A crooked vote is nothing new in Venezuela,

649
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: nor in Latin America, in the world overall, for being honest.

650
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: But Maduro took this one referendum as a mandate and

651
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: ran with it. And if you ask folks, like if

652
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 3: you ask policy wonks, which I mean is a compliment,

653
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: Like Anderson Sekira over at a political analysis firm based

654
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 3: in Venezuela, you'll see them say stuff like the government's

655
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: only options are to try to rile up national sentiments

656
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: and escalate the situation because it helps them increase political

657
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: repression and it helps them persecute anybody who is an

658
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: opponent of Maduro. Sort of like and this might be

659
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 3: a hot take, but it's very true. Sort of like

660
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: how in the wake of the attacks of September eleventh

661
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 3: in the US, politicians who aligned with the current president

662
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 3: had to field day saying like, you're an American if

663
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 3: you disagree with me and my party about anything, right,

664
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 3: you support terrorists, if you think school lunch should be affordable.

665
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, and also remember what comes along with a

666
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 5: hot conflict, like if they actually did go to war

667
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 5: with Guiana, the money that would be spent on building

668
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 5: a war machine even larger so that they could, you know,

669
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 5: as the country itself could maintain security internally while fighting

670
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 5: a war across the way, right, and all of these,

671
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 5: all the contractors that get paid, all of the there's

672
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 5: just so much money that gets generated or spent, let's say,

673
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 5: during war, which we kind.

674
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: Of know this about money.

675
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 5: You do kind of have to borrow it from somebody,

676
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 5: but you can also kind of just print it in

677
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 5: some ways. So it's interesting, like the way you can

678
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 5: you can make things better for a little bit. Often,

679
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 5: as you're saying, there been when you go to war.

680
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it's always a great way to get re elected,

681
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: unfortunately in even even things that are problematic democracies or

682
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: democracies and names only I know, I mean something different.

683
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: But the idea here is that you make up an

684
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 3: enemy of them, and you rally your people behind it.

685
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: At that point. As crazy as it sounds, at that point,

686
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: it doesn't really matter if you win the conflict. It

687
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: matters that you get the support to wage the conflict

688
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 3: and then rationalize the outcome to an increasingly isolated public.

689
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 3: That's how fascism works, right, and that's what's so brilliant

690
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 3: about it. I also note, uh, I still I shouldn't

691
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 3: do it, but I still read The Economist and they

692
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: had an article that speaks to what your point was

693
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 3: about about borrowing money. They had a very tone deaf

694
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: article that came out out pretty recently where they were like,

695
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: what would world war iie mean for investors? That's not kidding,

696
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: not the onion, that's what I mean. Yeah, I know, right,

697
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 3: So okay, so that's the idea, Like, is this just

698
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: a push for support, you know, something I can do

699
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: a culture war and then a hot war all mixed up, right,

700
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 3: to keep to keep people from coming out in the

701
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 3: streets with torches and pitchforks and overthrowing you.

702
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 5: So yeah, Ben, Ben, It's also like the situation in

703
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 5: Crimea in my mind. Yeah right, It's a dispute in

704
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 5: somebody else's land that you felt like was once yours

705
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 5: in some way right with the two disputing countries stallid.

706
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: In nineteen fifty four, Yeah.

707
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 5: Exactly, exactly, well then and then how crime was taken

708
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 5: back over again, and so it's just to me, it

709
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 5: feels like we're moving to another one of those I'm sorry,

710
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 5: just went with that out there.

711
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 3: That's perfect. I think that's a perfect comparison, man, because

712
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: you know, the Putin administration was encountering terrible, terrible problems,

713
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 3: very similar problems, and now there's a there's a war

714
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 3: in another country, and like, if you disagree, you're a

715
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 3: very bad person. You're on Russian you know. Like if

716
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 3: we said this, though, if Venezuela actually did invade, and

717
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: this isn't just a cynical fascist attempt to support a

718
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 3: failing government, then several things would happen. If Yana has

719
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: no on the ground four and support, Like your point,

720
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: no Venezuela will win instantly. It will simply happen and

721
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 3: the world will have to deal with it later. And

722
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: if that happens, venezuel will pay a heavy price geopolitically.

723
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: But what's the nature of that is that? Does that

724
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: mean toothless condemnation? The UN writes an angry letter and

725
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: says you can't come to the pizza party because they'll

726
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: still sell the oil.

727
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 5: It's weird, though, because they're already kind of not invited

728
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 5: to the pizza party, and they have been for a

729
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 5: long time.

730
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 3: The sanctions, right, yeah.

731
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 5: So I mean, what wow? What really is the major price?

732
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It might be a little bit more

733
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: of a discount than we think. There are sanctions related

734
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: to Venezuela, and a lot of sanctions are that get

735
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: applied to different countries come from the US directly. But

736
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: even in those cases, people other governments and companies they

737
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: need fossil fuels still, so they're going to buy them.

738
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 3: You can still make a buck off of it. We

739
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: know that. I don't know. The more chaotic thing is

740
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 3: what happens I Venezuela invades and then a third party intercedes.

741
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 3: That's very frightening. At first it sounds like, oh, the

742
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 3: good guys, America's police, and that may to a degree

743
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 3: be somewhat true, but it also means this could escalate

744
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 3: into a proxy war. We don't know what Venezuela's allies

745
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 3: would provide, but it'd be enough to make things ugly.

746
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: There would be a blood price, and then the people

747
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: who would fight in that that third party, which would

748
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 3: probably be the United States, who were being honest, their

749
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: resources would be spread increasingly thin. You know, this would

750
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 3: like if I were interested, if we were hanging out

751
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 3: and we were waiting for a good time, it's be

752
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: a good time to get a little closer to Taiwan, right,

753
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 3: because the boats are somewhere else.

754
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 5: It's true, And we do we say that China is

755
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 5: Venezuela's primary receiver of exported oil.

756
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 2: We do not, well, we should.

757
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 5: We should say that China receives around four hundred and

758
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 5: thirty thousand barrels per day of oil from Venezuela, which

759
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 5: does mean they were It does mean they would be

760
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 5: the ones. China would be the one who would say, hey,

761
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 5: hold on, hold on, maybe I've gotta do something here, right,

762
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 5: And when we're talking about a proxy war that becomes

763
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 5: larger with bigger players, that's what it could be could be.

764
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then also if you are a certain Russian

765
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: day dat not naming names hoping to get some distractions

766
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: from say a failing war in hypothetically Ukraine, then chaos

767
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 3: like this is fantastic because it dilutes your opponent's resources,

768
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: It spreads them further across and further away from your

769
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: particular conflict. It also shifts international attention and therefore political

770
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: will away from opposing you.

771
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: So this is I.

772
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 3: Don't know, like we can play the game where this

773
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 3: spins out further and further and further in each of

774
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 3: these if thens is troubling, but how likely is it

775
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 3: to occur?

776
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 6: I don't know.

777
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 3: Fascism just needs an external enemy, a thing for you

778
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: fight against.

779
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, that's a really interesting thing that you mentioned.

780
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 4: I was listening to a podcast with Adam Conover the

781
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 4: other day and he was just talking about the history

782
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 4: of the Right and talking about how oftentimes, you know,

783
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 4: historically the right has been a reaction to being disenfranchised

784
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 4: of the wealthy, kind of having things taken away from

785
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 4: them and then creating a situation where they have a

786
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 4: perceived enemy, uh, and they want to kind of crib

787
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 4: from the other side, the creative of the situation that

788
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 4: took the things away from them in order to get

789
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 4: the things back, and in order to do that, they

790
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 4: have to have a perceived enemy. And that's just a

791
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 4: really you know, important touchstone in that kind of rhetoric

792
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 4: and that kind of sort of political gas lighting and maneuvering.

793
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just need the eternal war. And the problem

794
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: is with people who are fans of fascist ideology and

795
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: tactics is it's a lot like it's a lot like

796
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 3: playing a dark lottery. It's it's writing or it's trying

797
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 3: to ride a bull. Right, It's an unpredictable thing because

798
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 3: the nature, the specific nature of the enemy will always

799
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 3: shift once you kind of deplete the first one, and

800
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: then eventually it's going to be your turn in the

801
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 3: stone chair. So that's why, that's why fat is not sustainable.

802
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 5: Stone chair is the sacrifice for anyone.

803
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just sounds cool.

804
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: I don't know, God, but luckily I don't know. It

805
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: seems like they are seeking de escalation, so all this

806
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 3: is hypothetical right now.

807
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's weird to me that a dispute like this

808
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 5: can be so long agoing, Like the dispute really hasn't

809
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 5: stopped since eighteen ninety nine, and the International Court of

810
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 5: Justice has officially had something in front of them since

811
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen that they've just been mulling over since twenty eighteen. Like,

812
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 5: h guys, come on, we really got to decide what's

813
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 5: happening here, and it just hasn't happened, which it is

814
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 5: just it's to me, it's crazy. It could be a

815
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 5: five year long court battle, right right.

816
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 6: Well.

817
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: Venezuela also considers ICG a kangaroo court.

818
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can do that.

819
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 3: When you're a country, you could just say I reject

820
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 3: this court. Imagine geting a parking ticket and saying, like,

821
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 3: you know, traffic Court of Atlanta, malarkey, everybody knows it.

822
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 3: You guys are clowns.

823
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: I do.

824
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 5: I don't respect your entire international justice system. Sorry, right exactly.

825
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 4: Geez, you guys just reminded me that I have to

826
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 4: show up for jury duty on Monday.

827
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: Nice tell if you don't want to do it. Whenever

828
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 3: they ask you a question, talk about jury nullification. It's

829
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: your one way ticket out.

830
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 6: I did. I tried last time, and they totally picked me.

831
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: I also said, I'm They said, I suppose anything that

832
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 4: would prevent me from being objective. It was a case

833
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 4: surrounding police or whatever, and I said, I'm actually the

834
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 4: co host of a conspiracy podcast and we objectively do

835
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 4: not trust the government.

836
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 6: And that wasn't enough. To get me struck.

837
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: Wow, asking you.

838
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 6: That question, I swear anyhow, we'll try it again this time.

839
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 3: But anyway, well, the thing is right now there is

840
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 3: some good news we can end on. The leaders of

841
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: Venezuela and Guiana had a recent long meeting what Corporate

842
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 3: America will call an off site a summit, and resulted

843
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 3: in a declaration that they both signed, or I shouldn't

844
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 3: say declaration, a joint statement they will call it, where

845
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 3: they said, look, we don't get along. Venezuela is like,

846
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 3: we're totally right, and gian is like, that's a lie.

847
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 3: We're totally right. However, we can agree that we're not

848
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: going to use force against each other. The question is

849
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 3: how long that's going to hold. Instead, they said, you

850
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 3: know what we're gonna do, because it worked so great

851
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 3: over the past few centuries, we're gonna put together a

852
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: little team, well team of bureaucrats, and they're going to

853
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 3: figure it out peacefully. Sounds and surely the forty eighth

854
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 3: millionth time is the charm, right, And then what they

855
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: say in baseball.

856
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's it.

857
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: That's a that's a quote for our pal Max. But

858
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 3: also at the same time, like how off. Can you

859
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 3: try us the statements of these various countries. Can trust

860
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: the statements of Venezuela because true story, the Venezuelan government

861
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: has already ordered new maps that include land from Guyana

862
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 3: as part of Venezuela. Which parts you might ask, Oh, well,

863
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 3: it's the ones with the oil, Oh yeah.

864
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they're super into that whole region we talked

865
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 5: about where that one river cuts through most of the country.

866
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhere between two thirds and three fourths. And look, obviously,

867
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: when I feel like it's important for us to say this,

868
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 3: whenever we talk about governmental actions, we are not talking

869
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 3: about the people living in these countries. No, people living

870
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: in these countries are chill. They want the same stuff

871
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 3: anybody else in any other part of the world wants.

872
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 3: They also probably have serious issues with world governments, with

873
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,479
Speaker 3: their own government, and they are not the people who

874
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 3: want a war overwhelmingly throughout history.

875
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 5: No, there's a great Can we shout out a couple

876
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 5: of articles just for people who shout out, there's one

877
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 5: in Al Jazeera I would just send everybody to. It's

878
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 5: one of the more recent stories that was written about this.

879
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 5: On January eleventh, written by Nozima Raghubir and it is

880
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 5: titled Fears Simmer in Eskibo Region as Venezuela eyes the

881
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 5: Disputed Territory.

882
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: It's just there's so.

883
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 5: Many written like this, and they have been really since

884
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 5: I guess early December of last year. Right that that

885
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 5: give a pretty good overview of what's happening on both sides.

886
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point too. And an

887
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 3: American representative also visited they're seeking a bureaucratic solution at

888
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 3: this point, and I know, bureaucratic. The word bureaucracy has

889
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: some connotations for an effectiveness, and it's earned those connotations

890
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 3: to a degree. But still that's better than a hot war.

891
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 3: You know, Guyana is not a wealthy country. The people

892
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: who live there for the most part are the people

893
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: who people of Venezuela. They're not the people who can

894
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: afford to say, oh, fiddle d D there's a war.

895
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 3: I guess I'll go summer in Monaco. You know, we

896
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 3: have to exercise humanity with this stuff, and we can't

897
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 3: put oil barrels over that. But as a society we do.

898
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 2: Really got gion over an oil barrel.

899
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 3: And on that note, thank you, as always so much

900
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 3: for duty in Folks, listen, send on a goodwin. We

901
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear your thoughts. If you have first

902
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: and experience visiting living in Guyana and Venezuela, if you

903
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 3: have ties with these countries this region, let us know.

904
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear your thoughts. We try to be

905
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 3: easy to find online. I'm try.

906
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 4: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff where

907
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook, or we have our Facebook group.

908
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 6: Here's where it gets crazy.

909
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 4: We are also conspiracy Stuff on x FKA Twitter, and

910
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 4: you can also find us at that handle on YouTube.

911
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 4: We are Conspiracy Stuff Show however on Insta and TikTok.

912
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 4: And be on the lookout for new social media short

913
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 4: form videos.

914
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 6: And maybe even some longer form stuff coming in the

915
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 6: new year.

916
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 5: Hey, if you've got a moment, why not head to

917
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 5: our YouTube channel and check out the videos we made

918
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 5: on who Hugo Chavez back in.

919
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 2: Ten years ago? Maybe we made those videos?

920
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 5: Go check those out because there's really interesting information in

921
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 5: there about again, maybe how the country was going, what

922
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 5: the fears were at least at the top of the

923
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 5: chain ten years ago.

924
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 3: Also, the US definitely did Dirton Venezuela just to be

925
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 3: very clear. Oh yeah, did bad stuff.

926
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, the CI that made the fact book. Anyway, it's fine,

927
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 5: everything's fine. Call our number one eight three three std WYTK.

928
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 5: It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes. When you

929
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 5: do call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let

930
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 5: us know if we can use your name and message

931
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 5: on one of our listener mail episodes. If you got

932
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 5: more to say, you got an attachment, maybe some links,

933
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 5: why not instead shoot us an email.

934
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

935
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 5: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

936
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 5: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

937
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.