1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and how the 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: tech are you? So chances are if you're listening to 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: the show, you have a handle on what an operating 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: system is. Lots of stuff you use as an operating system. 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: You know, you're a computer, your smartphone, that kind of thing. 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: An operating system's job is to serve as a sort 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: of liaison between a device's hardware, you know, the actual 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: chips and circuits that really make it work, and the 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: software that runs on top of it and gets those 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: hardware things to produce output that you actually want. So 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: operating systems create a starting point or foundation for programmers. 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: If you design an application meant for a specific operating system, 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: then that app should work on pretty much any device 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: that's running that specific operating system sort of. There can 17 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: actually be exceptions due to various hardware configurations, but you 18 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: get the idea. So, the operating system manages all sorts 19 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: of processes like memory management. It also handles data sent 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: to peripheral devices like displays or printers. Before there were 21 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: operating systems. Computers were far more limited and much less efficient. 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: If you wanted to run a program on an old 23 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: computer pre operating system days, first you had to wait 24 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: until nothing else was running on that computer. Then you 25 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: would have to directly load your program onto the hardware itself. 26 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: So the classical version of this was a program designated by, 27 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: say a long strip of paper tape that has holes 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: punched into it in specific places, or a collection of 29 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: punch cards, that you would have a program built onto, 30 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: and you would have to load this on a computer. 31 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: You would also have to preset physical switches on the 32 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: computer itself to make certain that the computer began in 33 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: the proper state before you would execute your program. If 34 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: it wasn't, then you wouldn't get the result you had intended, 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: and you might not know that until much further down 36 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: the line. So very complicated. It was a physical activity, 37 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: like it wasn't just click on an icon or type 38 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: something into a command line, and it didn't always go smoothly. 39 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: Either a mistake in the programming or a bug in 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: the computer system itself could cause a crash, and that 41 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: might require a lot of backtracking to fix it. You 42 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: would have to identify what went wrong, and then fix 43 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: the problem. This was not always an easy thing to do, 44 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: but over time, computer scientists developed programming languages and operating 45 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: systems in order to enhance the capabilities of computers and 46 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: to make it easier to use them, and eventually there 47 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: was an explosion of operating systems. Some were peculiar to 48 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: a specific type of computer or a specific line of computers. 49 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: While the operating system made things easier for programmers who 50 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 1: were working on those machines, you would still often need 51 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: to specialize in certain classes of computer systems because of 52 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: differences between them, Like just because you know how to 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: program for computer system A, doesn't mean you could program 54 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: for computer system B, because how fundamentally different they were. 55 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: So today I thought I would talk a bit about 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: a few discontinued operating systems. These were once important, but 57 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: they are no longer in widespread use today. Some of 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: them live on, at least in part. Sometimes they're partly 59 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: a legacy element that's still found in modern day operating systems. 60 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: Some of them are supported by hobbyists. And I could 61 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: go all the way back to the days of like 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: mainframes and micro computers, but I figured it would be 63 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: best to kind of limit ourselves to personal computers and 64 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Maybe in the future I could 65 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: go further back. Also in the future, I might do 66 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: things like smartphones, because there's some smartphone operating systems that 67 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: are largely discontinued this today, and it would be interesting 68 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: to have a conversation about those as well. So it's 69 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: just important to remember that, even though I'm just really 70 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: talking about PCs in this episode, there have been a 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: lot of other computer systems that had come and gone 72 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: by the time we get up to that. I decided 73 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: to start with PCs because I would argue the PC 74 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: era is really kind of a transformational point in our world. 75 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: You know, miniaturization and mass production had made it possible 76 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: to create a computer that could fit on a desktop 77 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: and also not cost a bazillion dollars. Although I should 78 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: point out early personal computers were still really expensive, like 79 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: if you were to compare them to computers today, far 80 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: more expensive than what you could get today if you're 81 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: just buying like a basic system, a basic system back 82 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: in like the late seventies early eighties would cost you 83 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: a whole lot more than what you would spend today. 84 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: Comparatively speaking, you have to take inflation into account. So 85 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: let's start off with a computer system that launched in 86 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five. So nineteen eighty five was a year 87 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: after Apple had introduced the Macintosh computer. There was this 88 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: other company called Commodore International. It had originally started out 89 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: as this humble business of typewriter repair and reselling. Like 90 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: it was a business that bought old, busted up typewriters, 91 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: fixed them up, and then sold them again, and eventually 92 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: they became more of a computer company. They made the 93 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: Commodore sixty four, one of the most famous personal computers 94 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: of all time. But in nineteen eighty five they introduced 95 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: a new machine that seemed to have a whole lot 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: of promise, and it was called the Amme. Now the 97 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: Amiga didn't actually start off as a Commodore project. A 98 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: group of folks who had previously worked for Atari decided 99 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: that they would strike out on their own and make 100 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: their own company. So they created a business that they 101 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: called Hi Toro. I don't know why I gave a 102 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: little role in the r there Hi Toro, Hi Dash 103 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: t Ro. It was this group that would receive an 104 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: acquisition offer from Commodore, and they took it. So the 105 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: Amiga measured up well against competing computers at the time, 106 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: computers like the Macintosh and the IBM PC. It boasted 107 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: superior graphics and sound. The Amiga was incredible in that regard. 108 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: Games on the Amiga had a tendency to look and 109 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: sound leagues better than similar titles that you could find 110 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: on other platforms. Animators and artists were drawn no pun 111 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: intended to the Amiga, and it was seen as a 112 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 1: really powerful tool for creative types in the computer space, 113 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: very much the way Macintosh computers would be viewed a 114 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: decade later, even though creatives also like Macintosh computers even 115 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: back in those early days. But when I think about 116 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: when I first got into media, anyone I knew who 117 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: worked in media and worked with computers, they had a Macintosh. 118 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: The mac was seen as the computer for creatives well 119 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: in the mid eighties. The goal for Commodore was to 120 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: make the Amiga that type of machine, and for a 121 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: lot of creatives it was. Now the Amiga operating system 122 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: was known as Amiga OS, which makes sense, and it 123 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: had some pretty cool features. For one, it could allow 124 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: for multitasking. Now not all PCs at this time could multitask. 125 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: Most would require the user to quit out of one 126 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: application entirely before they could launch another, But the Amiga 127 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: OS was different. Now, it wasn't perfect multitasking. The operating 128 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: syste would have essentially freeze whichever app you were leaving 129 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: in order to dedicate the resources to whichever app you 130 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: were switching to. So if you've got app A and 131 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: app B and you're leaving app A to go to 132 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: app B, app A just goes into kind of hibernation mode. 133 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,239 Speaker 1: This method is called preemptive multitasking, and what it means 134 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: is that you couldn't start a process, then swap to 135 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: another window and expect the process in that first window 136 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: to continue while you're doing something else. But still the 137 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: ability to go back and forth between tests was a 138 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: big advance over many competitors. Like these days, I think 139 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: that would I would find that frustrating because sometimes I 140 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: will start a process in one window and it'll say 141 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: it's going to take like forty five seconds. I'm like, 142 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: I don't have time for that. I'm going to go 143 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: do something in this other window while that completes, and 144 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: computers today can handle that. The Amiga could not. But 145 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: you have to remember computational resources were much more limited then, right, 146 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: We were still in the very early days of personal computers. 147 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: The operating system also included a disc operating system or DOS. 148 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: We'll be talking more about the famous MS DOS later 149 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: in this episode, but this was called Amiga DOSS naturally, 150 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: and this disc operating system gave the user access to 151 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: things like the computer's file system and directory, so you 152 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: can navigate through that way if you didn't want to 153 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: use the graphic User interface or GUI version of the 154 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: operating system, and you might normally use Amiga's graphics user 155 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: interface to get around, but this would give you a 156 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: much more direct and text based method of navigating the machine. 157 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: In some ways, it was more efficient and faster if 158 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: you knew what you were doing, but if you didn't, 159 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: you could just use the GUY to get around using 160 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: its various file management systems. Now, one thing a Mega 161 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: OS did not have was memory protection. Now, as the 162 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: name implies, the purpose of memory protection is to prevent 163 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: processing from accessing memory for which they do not have 164 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: the permission to access. You know, if you're running a 165 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: process and another process says, oh, yeah, that memory over there, 166 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: that you're using, I'll have that and takes it. That's 167 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: not good. You want to have a system in place 168 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: to stop that from happening. Memory protection helps mitigate malicious 169 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: processes from causing damage to other processes or even to 170 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: the computer system itself. Right, you could program a purposefully 171 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: malicious program or application that would be meant to steal 172 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: resources from all other applications and essentially shut a computer down. 173 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: You don't want that to happen, so usually you would 174 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: have a memory protection method in place with your operating system, 175 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: but the Amiga OS did not have that. But this 176 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: shortcoming was not what led to the discontinuation of Amigo OS. 177 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: It's not like one day some Amiga based malware broke 178 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: out and ruined all the computers. That would have been 179 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: hard to do anyway, because networked computers were pretty darn 180 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: rare during the era of Amiga OS. Now the reason 181 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: why the Amiga OS operating system was discontinued and I 182 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: realized I was just repetitive there, But it's because it 183 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: has to do with business. Commodore, the company that made 184 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: and sold the computer, hit hard times really really quickly. 185 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: So in the early eighties, Commodore was measuring up really 186 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: well against competitors like Apple and IBM. They were selling 187 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: computers like hotcakes. Commodore was riding high, but then there 188 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: were dips in the mid eighties, and then there were 189 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: more crests and then dips again. Like it got pretty 190 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: rocky throughout the eighties and into the nineties, and in 191 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two things were going okay. But in nineteen 192 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: ninety three, sales dropped like a rock and the company 193 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: lost hundreds of millions of dollars, and it wasn't in 194 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: a financial position where it could recover from that. So 195 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four, Commodore announced it was entering into 196 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: bankruptcy and that it would liquidate all its assets. Now 197 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: it's true to say that Amiga OS faded away. It 198 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: lost all official support because the company that supported it 199 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: ceased to be but the operating system itself is not 200 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: totally gone. Hyperion Entertainment Overseas essentially a descendant of the 201 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: Amiga OS, and in fact, the most recent update I 202 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: can see dates back to April of twenty twenty three, 203 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: and that's when Hyperion Entertainment released a hot fix for 204 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: Amiga OS three point two point two so I guess 205 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: you could say it's only mostly dead. There's still hobbyists 206 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: who very much are into creating things for the Amiga OS, 207 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: and it is still supported, just not by the company 208 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: that created it, so that's kind of cool. But as 209 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: an official operating system, it's more of a curiosity than 210 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: anything else. And that's why I decided to start off 211 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: the episode with that one. Now we're gonna take a 212 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: quick break, and when we come back, I'm gonna talk 213 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: about a pair of operating systems that are deeply entwined 214 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: with one another and all the drama that comes with it. 215 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: That's what's coming next. But first let's take this quick break. 216 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: All right, we're back, So next we have next sort 217 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: of all right, Like I said, this is a really 218 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: a two for one entry, and it involves a whole 219 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: lot of drama. And I have talked over this story 220 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: before in other episodes of Tech Stuff, but it's such 221 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: a juicy story we're gonna have to rake the coals 222 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: once more. Now, this story starts back arguably in the 223 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: late seventies, but really the tipping point is in nineteen 224 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: eighty five, that same year that the Amiga came out, 225 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: and this was due to something that was going on 226 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: over at Apple, because things were getting rough, all right. 227 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: The reason things were getting rough, or one of them, 228 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: is that Steve Jobs had become a bit of a handful. Now. 229 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: Jobs had co founded Apple along with Steve Wozniak. Wosniak 230 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: was the actual programmer and engineer of the pair, and 231 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: the two had grown the company very quickly, but they 232 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: really weren't the right fit to lead a growing tech 233 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: corporation right. Investors were a little leery of backing a 234 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: new bayle tech company run by a couple of college dropouts, 235 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: and if they wanted to get support from their investors, 236 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: they needed to make sure they had a quote unquote 237 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: real leader. And they got a few real leaders in 238 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: those early years. First up was a guy named Michael Scott, 239 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: not the guy from the office, and the next was 240 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: an early Apple investor named Mike Markula. Markula would actually 241 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,119 Speaker 1: step up to be the chairman of the board of Directors, 242 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: and a new leader named John Scully the third would 243 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: come in to take over as CEO of Apple or 244 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: President of Apple originally now number three here. Scully he 245 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: had previously served as the president of Pepsi COO so 246 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: clearly he was the perfect pick that had a computer 247 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: company anyway. The point is Steve Jobs wasn't the one 248 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: calling the shots. He was not the executive ultimately in 249 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: charge of Apple, but occasionally he would act like he was. 250 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: In the late nineteen seventies, a computer engineer named Jeff 251 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: Raskin proposed a project that ultimately would become the McIntosh, 252 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: and apparently Steve Jobs thought this wasn't really a worthwhile pursuit. 253 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: I should also mention that Raskin's version of the McIntosh 254 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: was a very, very different thing than what would emerge 255 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: from Apple in nineteen eighty four. The Raskin's Macintosh was. 256 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: It could not have been more different. Really, It was 257 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: a text based, utilitarian workspace as opposed to what the 258 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: Macintosh would become. Anyway. Jobs wanted the company to back 259 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: the project he had been working on, which was the 260 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: Lisa personal computer, and he lobbied to have the Macintosh 261 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: killed off, but leadership sided with Raskin, and Jobs got angry. 262 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: The Lisa would end up being pretty much a forgotten 263 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: failure of Apple. It did not do so well, but 264 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: by that time Jobs was even angrier because in nineteen 265 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: eighty two, the rest of the Lisa team forced Jobs 266 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: off the project. They just felt his demands were kind 267 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: of making things go askew. So Jobs got kicked off 268 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: of the project he was running. And that was a 269 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: tough look because arguably Lisa took its name from Steve 270 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: Jobs's own daughter, or maybe it didn't, because stories vary 271 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: on that one. Some stories say no, no, no, it 272 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: was never meant to be named after Steve Jobs's daughter. 273 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: That was a coincidence. It was an acronym. But most 274 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: of the stories seem to say, like, yeah, it was 275 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: kind of named after his daughter, and then the acronym 276 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: stuff came later. It was acronyms, not acronyms. It's people like, 277 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: how can we let's come up with an acronym to 278 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: justify the name, and then we can argue that we 279 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: never named it after his daughter in the first place. Anyway, 280 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: Jobs then honed in on Raskin's team because now he 281 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: had an ax to grind. He had a grudge against 282 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: the Lisa team, and so he sort of waded into 283 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,239 Speaker 1: the Macintosh project and sort of took it over. And 284 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: like I said, originally that Macintosh project was a text based, 285 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: keyboard centric machine, and Jobs kind of turned it into 286 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: a sort of a Lisa clone. It was another computer 287 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: with a graphic user interface and a mouse, which he 288 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,239 Speaker 1: had lifted from Xerox Park. And he was now in 289 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: secret competition with the Lisa team, which meant he was 290 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: furiously working to prove that they were wrong and that 291 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: he was right. And maybe you could argue he also 292 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: lost sight of the fact that they were all actually 293 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: working for the same company and arguably for the same results. 294 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: So the Macintosh would actually come out in nineteen eighty 295 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: four looking very different from what Raskin's original nineteen seventy 296 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: nine concept was, and this would be the birth of 297 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: the classic mac OS operating system. That's important because macOS, 298 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: the classic version of macOS, is one of the two 299 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: operating systems that I'm really focusing on in this section. 300 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: But Jobs' behavior was seen as being really disruptive and 301 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: counterproductive to most of the teams that he interacted with, 302 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: and Scully and Jobs clashed numerous times, and Markola, the 303 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: chair of the board and the former head of Apple, 304 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: sided with Scully against Jobs. So Jobs left the company 305 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five or he was fired. Interpretations on 306 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: this vary as well. It's clear that Scully did his 307 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: best to distance Jobs from any meaningful projects, So I 308 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: guess it all comes down to semantics, Like you could 309 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: argue that, Okay, Jobs wasn't fired, he was just removed 310 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: from operations to the point where he wasn't really doing anything, 311 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: so he decided to leave. Fun fact, years later, Marcula 312 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: would actually be instrumental in forcing Scully out of Apple. 313 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: So I guess what goes around comes around. Anyway, Jobs 314 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: went off to found a different company. This would be 315 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: the next company. Now, the focus of the next company 316 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: was to create hardware for education. Jobs saw an opportunity 317 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: to design computer workstations specifically meant for the education sector, 318 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: so like professors and researchers, that kind of thing, not 319 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: like necessarily your average teacher, because, as it would turn out, 320 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: the next system would be very expensive and beyond the 321 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: reach of a lot of say, you know, smaller schools. 322 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: But people in those fields were already using personal computers. 323 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: The problem was that PCs are general purpose machines, so 324 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be, you know, pretty good at everything, 325 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily really good at any one thing. 326 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: So Jobs's aim was to create a computer that would 327 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: be ideally suited for education. Several former Apple employees went 328 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: with jobs to create this company and they got to 329 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: work designing the next computer. The operating system for this 330 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: computer would be called next Step one word. It would 331 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: take several years to bring this computer to market. So, 332 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: like I said, starts in nineteen eighty five, and the 333 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: original hope was to have a machine ready to launch 334 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven. But in reality, the next computer 335 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: wasn't ready until nineteen eighty nine, and even then it 336 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: was a small number of test machines that were ready. 337 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: And that initial batch cost six thousand, five hundred dollars 338 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: per computer. Now, if we adjust that for inflation, because 339 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: remember this is nineteen eighty nine, today, a computer like 340 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: that would cost you sixteen thousand, five hundred dollars. Right, 341 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: That's how much this initial batch, the test batch of 342 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: next computers cost when they actually were ready to launch 343 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: the computers in nineteen ninety For realsi's and make it 344 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: a larger batch. It went for an eye wateringly high 345 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: nine thousand, nine hundred ninety nine dollars. So again, if 346 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: we adjust that for inflation, brace yourselves. Those computers cost 347 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: twenty four thousand dollars a pop. So yeah, this was 348 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: not a computer aimed at the consumer market. In fact, 349 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: even universities would look at that sales price and say, who, 350 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: that's steep. It didn't take long for Jobs to reconsider 351 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,239 Speaker 1: NeXT's role in the industry. So the funny thing is 352 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: when he was first thinking about this, originally his plan 353 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: was to create hardware that was meant for the education 354 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: sector and not to create software, like he was going 355 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: to license the software from someone else, but then ultimately 356 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: changed his mind and created a hardware and software combined approach. 357 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: But at these computer prices, it was clear the company 358 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: wasn't going to sell that many units. It just couldn't. 359 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: These educational institutions just you know, they couldn't afford these 360 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: incredibly high prices, and he made the decision to gradually 361 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: shift over to become a software focused company, with the 362 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: heart of that focus being the next Step operating system. 363 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: Next Step was built on top of a Unix operating system. 364 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: It also it featured an object oriented application layer. It 365 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: had had a graphic user interface or GUY. It could 366 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: handle multitasking, and it was interesting. It didn't exactly set 367 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: the world on fire at the time, but it did 368 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: gain the interest of certain folks in the tech and 369 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: research and education spheres, so people realized there was value 370 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: in it, even though it wasn't exactly becoming the next 371 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: big thing. All right, But now we've got our classic 372 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: Mac operating system or macOS, and we've got our next 373 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: step operating system. To continue our story, we actually have 374 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: to go back to Apple and back to the nineties 375 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: and see what happened with the company. So Scully had 376 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: effectively pushed jobs out of Apple. Under Scully, Apple took 377 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: a path that wasn't very Apple like. One of the 378 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: things that had set Apple apart from IBM is that 379 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: when IBM made their personal computers, they used off the 380 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: shelf parts to do so, and that meant that competitors 381 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: could build their own IBM style computers also known as 382 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: IBM compatibles or IBM clones, and they would just use 383 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: the same or similar parts that IBM used, and they 384 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: would get an operating system that was compatible with IBMS. 385 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: Because IBM had failed to secure an exclusive agreement from 386 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,479 Speaker 1: the provider of their operating system, which I'll talk about 387 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: later on in this episode. So this ended up being 388 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: really bad news for IBM's personal computer division, because suddenly 389 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: the company was facing competition from numerous upstarts, most of 390 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: which were offering computers that were comparable to IBMS but 391 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: at a much lower price point. Apple, by contrast, had 392 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: traditionally developed its own hardware and software in house and 393 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: jealously guarded its proprietary approach, so if you wanted an 394 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: Apple computer, you had to go to Apple. But under Scully, 395 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: that began to shift and began to change. He pushed 396 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: the company to build a version of its operating system 397 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: to run on the power PC microprocessor architecture. This was 398 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: later on seen as a huge mistake. There was also 399 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: then a move to license Apple technology to other companies, 400 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: leading to what were called Mac clones that didn't exactly 401 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: match Apple's own quality standards. This was seen in retrospect 402 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: as a really big old pair of booboos, bad enough 403 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: that the board of directors decided to give Scully the 404 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: boot in nineteen ninety three. They replaced him with a 405 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: guy named Michael Spindler. Michael Spindler had previously been the 406 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: chief operating officer, but Spindler also didn't impress the board 407 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: that much. He led some massive cost cutting measures. While 408 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: he was at Apple, he shut down several R and 409 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: D projects. He laid off a lot of folks. But 410 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: Apple was in a chaotic mess at the time, and 411 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: the board lost its confidence in Spindler just after a 412 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: few years, so in nineteen ninety six they swapped him 413 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: out with a guy named Gil Emilio. So Emilio inherited 414 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: a really rough situation. Things were in a real mess 415 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: at Apple. One of the things that was going really 416 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: poorly was this evolution of the classic Macintosh operating system 417 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: aka the original mac OS. Because you see, there was 418 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: a team at Apple that had been working on a 419 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: next generation operating system for the Mac and it was 420 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: code named Copeland. But this project had languished in development 421 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: and was rife with feature creep. So that's when a 422 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: team gets bogged down by a product. When they add 423 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: more and more features that don't necessarily contribute to whatever 424 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: the end purpose of the product is, it just gets bloated. 425 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: And on top of that, there were also personality conflicts 426 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: within the team, especially at the leadership level. Project management 427 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: was in a shambles. It was just a total mess. 428 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: So Copeland was intended to be macOS eight. It was 429 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: intended to replace classic Mac operating system and become the 430 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: new standard, but it was in such a mess that 431 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: when Apple brought on Emilio, he said, I need to 432 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: have somebody come in and try and get this into shape. 433 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: He brought on a woman named Ellen Hancock to try 434 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: and get Mac OS eight to a point where it 435 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: could ship, and she essentially said, Yo, this thing is busted. 436 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: Not in so many words I'm paraphrasing, and she concluded 437 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: that the project was so mired in issues that it 438 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: would actually make way more sense to scrap it than 439 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: to attempt to salvage it. And Emilio didn't really have 440 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: any other options. He said, I guess that's what we 441 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: have to do, because it was a real mess. So 442 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: Apple switched gears and released a far more modest evolution 443 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: of the classic Mac operating system, and then they called 444 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: that Mac OS eight. And in the meantime, Emilio was 445 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: looking outside of Apple to try and find a solution 446 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: to create an actual next generation operating system. At one 447 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: point he was said to be looking at a company 448 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: called be Incorporated. This was led by a guy named 449 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: Jean Luis Gesse, and I ironically Gass had formerly been 450 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: an executive at Apple. In fact, you could say he 451 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: was Scully's choice to replace Jobs back in the eighties, 452 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: but that deal with b Incorporated fell through, and instead 453 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: Emilio looked to drum roll please Next Computers and next Step. 454 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: So that's right. Apple's solution to the problem of having 455 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: no next generation operating system strategy was to negotiate with 456 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: the former co founder of Apple. So Emilio convinced the 457 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: board of directors to pursue an acquisition of Next Computers, 458 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: and Steve Jobs would more or less come along for 459 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: the ride, essentially at least initially as a consultant. And 460 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: Emilio's real goal was to get hold of the Next 461 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: Step operating system and use that as a foundation for 462 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: the next generation version of the Mac operating system. So 463 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: this acquisition happened in early nineteen ninety seven. Apple would 464 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: release another modest Mac OS update, called fittingly macOS nine, 465 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: but the plan was to merge next Step with elements 466 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: from Copeland and other work done at Apple, and so 467 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: eventually the next generation operating system would come out and 468 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: it would be this kind of mishmash's combination, and this 469 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: would be macOS ten, or you might call it mac OSX, 470 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: because they switched from using you know, the numbers that 471 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: we would be familiar with and went to Roman numerals 472 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: for ten. By the time mac OS ten launched, Jobs 473 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: had convinced the Board of directors to give Amelio his 474 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: marching orders, so Emilia was no longer the head of Apple. 475 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: Jobs initially took over as interim CEO of Apple, but 476 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: he became way less interim over time. He also alienated 477 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,239 Speaker 1: Ellen Hancock, you know, the woman who came over to 478 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: evaluate Copeland and determine whether or not could ship. She 479 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: did not want to use next Step as the found 480 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: for the next generation Macintosh operating system. She had argued 481 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: against that, so Jobs obviously did not like her at 482 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: all because the next Step OS is what brought Jobs 483 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: back into Apple's fold. So he pretty much made sure 484 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: that she didn't have a whole lot to do, so 485 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: she ended up resigning, you know, not long after he 486 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: kind of took power. But mac OS ten, despite a 487 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: somewhat slow launch, did become the bedrock for Apple's operating 488 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: system strategy moving forward, and it would take a few 489 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: years for Jobs to get things turned around, and it 490 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: was helped tremendously by some creatively you know, designed products 491 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: courtesy of Johnny Ive and the legacy operating systems of 492 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: the classic mac os and next step would kind of 493 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: ride off into the sunset, and mac OS ten would 494 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: end up taking their place. All Right, I'm gonna take 495 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: another quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about 496 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: another discontinued operating system, this one coming courtesy of Microsoft. 497 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: But first let's take this break. Okay, it's time to 498 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: talk about DOS. This one, also, you could argue, has 499 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: some pretty significant drama associated with it, and this one 500 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: predates the other operating systems we mentioned because the family 501 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: of DOS operating systems, beginning with eighty six DOS and 502 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: ending with MS DOS eight point zero, starts in the 503 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: early eighties and stretches on until two thousand. Now, to 504 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: be clear, there have been lots of other DOS versions 505 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: since MS DOS eight. The family of operating systems has 506 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: a few branches, more than a few. So I'm specifically 507 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: talking about MS DOS here, But DOS itself is still 508 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: alive and well, it's just it's no longer that particular 509 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: line of DOS. So this family of operating systems ties 510 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: in with the history of the eighty eighty six microprocessor, 511 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: which came from Intel. There was this company that was 512 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: called Seattle Computer Products, and there was a guy who 513 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: worked there named Tim Patterson who was a pretty brilliant 514 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: computer engineer and programmer. Patterson built a primitive eighty eighty 515 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: six based CPU card, and he actually worked with Microsoft 516 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: in order to get a version of Microsoft Basic, the 517 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: programming language, to run on this card, along with an 518 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: extremely primitive operating system. Patterson also became acquainted with an 519 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: earlier operating system from Microsoft that sometimes it's called m DOS, 520 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: sometimes it's called MIDAS, but this was an operating system 521 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: designed to actually run on an older generation of processors, 522 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: not the eighty eighty six family, but it did give 523 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: Patterson some ideas. So Patterson then goes back to Seattle 524 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: Computer Products and gets to to create a suitable operating 525 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: system to run on top of the eighty eighty six 526 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: based computers, or at least their computer motherboards. So this 527 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: is in nineteen eighty. Within half a year he's got 528 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: one and he calls it q DOS, which he said 529 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: stands for a quick and dirty operating system, but Seattle 530 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: Computer Products rebrands it as eighty six DOS, meaning it's 531 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: a disc operating system that runs on top of eighty 532 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: eighty six architecture. The company reaches out to Microsoft to 533 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: create a cross licensing deal. Microsoft would get access to 534 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: the operating system if Seattle Computer Products could adapt Microsoft 535 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: Basic for it. Now. This eventually leads to Patterson joining Microsoft. 536 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: He leaves Seattle Computer Products and joins Microsoft, and then 537 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: Microsoft outright buys the rights to eighty six DOS from 538 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: Seattle Computer Products the following year. And here's the thing, 539 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: this is why there's some drama here. Microsoft buys those 540 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: rights and then proceeds to go on a crazy licensing 541 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: deal with this operating system. So while they paid like 542 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: seventy five grand initially at least for the rights, they 543 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: made so much money licensing it to all these other 544 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: companies that folks felt that Microsoft had kind of screwed 545 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: over Seattle Computer Products. That especially since the perception was 546 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: that Microsoft had developed MS DOSS when in fact they 547 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: had purchased it from another company. They did tweak it, like, 548 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: they didn't just keep it exactly the same and sell it. 549 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: They did make changes, they made advancements to it and 550 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: everything and improvements. But the heart of that work came 551 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: from a totally different company, and so there's some who 552 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: feel that it was like reverse robin Hood, steal from 553 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: the poor and give to the rich. Anyway, that all 554 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: depends on who's story you really want to listen to, 555 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: I suppose. But Microsoft around this time also signs a 556 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 1: deal with IBM, and IBM had wanted an operating system 557 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: from Microsoft that it could run on its eighty eighty 558 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: six based machines, specifically its personal computer line, which it 559 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: was launching. So Microsoft then decides that it will license 560 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: eighty six DOS to IBM, but they rename it to 561 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: MS DOS. Now again, if you didn't look further, you 562 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: might think Bill Gates designed all of this, but he didn't. Again, 563 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: it came from this other company, although the guy who 564 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: made it for the other company was now working for Microsoft, 565 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: So I guess there's some argument to be made there too. 566 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: So if you've never used MS DOS, let me explain 567 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: what it was like. And you still can use at 568 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: least a facsimile of MS DOS if you're using a 569 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: Windows machine. It's a text based command line operating system. 570 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: So when you would boot up your computer back in 571 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: the olden days, you might actually be using a floppy 572 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: disk to boot your computer up if you didn't have 573 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: a hard drive, because back in the olden days hard 574 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: drives were not standard either, and the operating system would 575 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: be on your desk. It would load into computer memory. 576 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: Once it loaded in, you would be presented a command 577 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: prompt and you would type in commands on the command prompt, 578 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: and then the operating system would execute those commands, assuming 579 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: that you did it correctly. So you might list in 580 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: a command to do something like list out all the 581 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: file directories that are on a disc, whether that's a 582 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: hard drive or a floppy disk or whatever, and this 583 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: would be so that you can just see what's on there. Right. 584 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: There were times where I would have a floppy desk, 585 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: there'd be no label on it. You put it into 586 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: a drive, and you would have to, you know, navigate 587 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: through the file directories just to see what the heck 588 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: is on this thing, what kind of files? You know? 589 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe the organization would give it away right away, 590 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: or maybe you'd have to dig in to figure it out. 591 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: Those are the days, man, You would use commands to 592 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: navigate through the directory, like if you wanted to switch 593 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: to specific folders and drilled down you would have to 594 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: do that by typing it in and typing in the 595 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: command and changing directories that way. You might want to 596 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: switch to a totally different drive. Maybe you don't want 597 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: to look at the flobby disk, Maybe you want to 598 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: look at the hard drive. Maybe you just want to 599 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: execute a program, or you would have to type in 600 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: the command to that too, So you would have to 601 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: memorize a list of commands that you would type in. 602 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: You could get by just by knowing like half a 603 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: dozen of those or so, maybe not even that many 604 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: if you really want to just basic operations for folks 605 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,439 Speaker 1: who don't work on command line systems. When you first 606 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: look at this, it looks really obtuse and challenging, like 607 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: it's got a huge learning curve to it. But it 608 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: really wasn't that hard. You just had to get some 609 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: basics down. It just wasn't intuitive the way that a 610 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: graphics user interface was. That's what the beauty of guy 611 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: based operating systems happens to be. They are easy to 612 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: grasp and easy to navigate. If you're using these old 613 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: text based DOSS systems, they are a little more intimidating. 614 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: Now I'm old enough that I remember using Doss on 615 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: computers and loving it. And I actually remember that when 616 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: Windows rolled around, I hated Windows, not because I didn't 617 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: think Windows was useful. I certainly recognized how it could 618 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: be a lot easier for a new person who wasn't 619 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: familiar with computers to navigate a system that had Windows 620 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: versus DOS. Right, Like, I knew that that was easier 621 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: to do. There were times where I felt like it 622 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: was dumbing things down a bit too much. But really, 623 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: the reason why I didn't like Windows is that Windows 624 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: required a decent amount of your computer's resources to run. 625 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: That meant there were fewer resources are your actual programs. 626 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: So I resented the fact that so much of my 627 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: computer's processing power had to go just to running the 628 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: operating system of all things. I mean, why not just 629 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: take the time to learn DOSS. It's a much more 630 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: lightweight operating system, and then your computer runs faster and 631 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: you could devote that processing power to the actual programs 632 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: that you want to run. But it turned out I 633 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,720 Speaker 1: was your typical old man yelling at a passing cloud, 634 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: and the whole world moved on to guy based operating systems, 635 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: and eventually all the software that was coming out for 636 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: PCs required Windows. Like when I would go to an 637 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: electronics store and look at the computer games and they 638 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,439 Speaker 1: were all like Windows required. The writing was on the wall. 639 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: There was just no way for me to get around it. 640 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: I could not continue to hold out against Windows. I 641 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: had to get it, and you had to get with 642 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: the program literally, or just be satisfied with running obsolete 643 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: software for the rest of your life. And you might 644 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: be able to tell that I'm still a little bitter 645 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: about this. Even though it's decades later. Microsoft continued to 646 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: support DOS and they updated it all the way up 647 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: until two thousand, that's when they shut down support for 648 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: MS DOS. But they do still include DOS or DOS 649 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: like tools in Windows, so you can find little command 650 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: prompt Windows to help run things sometimes you need to 651 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: in order to do things like, you know, maybe check 652 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: a driver or that sort of stuff. And as I said, 653 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: there are other versions of DOS that are still around. 654 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 1: It's not like all versions of DOS died. Microsoft after all, 655 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: licensed DOS out to dozens of different companies. That's how 656 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: they made so much bank. Early on IBM, like I said, 657 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: used a version of DOS that for many years was 658 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: essentially identical to MS DOS. They had DOS and the 659 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: two were essentially identical until they finally kind of parted 660 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: ways many years into that relationship. And as I said, 661 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons why IBM lost the personal 662 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: computer battle in the first place, right because not only 663 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: were they using off the shelf components, they were using 664 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,439 Speaker 1: this operating system that they licensed for Microsoft, and they 665 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: did not make it an exclusive licensing deal. If they 666 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: made it exclusive and Microsoft had only been allowed to 667 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: license to IBM, there would have been nowhere else to go, 668 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 1: and this would be a totally different world. But because 669 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: they didn't do that, it meant that these other companies 670 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: could attempt to copy IBM by buying those same sort 671 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: of off the shelf components and then licensing the same 672 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: MS DOS for Microsoft, and it would be close enough 673 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: to IBMS to be essentially compatible. And that's where you 674 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: would get your IBM clones or IBM compatible machines, and 675 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: you could sell them at a fraction of what IBM 676 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 1: was demanding for their PCs. And thus IBM had shot 677 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,879 Speaker 1: themselves in the foot, and we got all these other 678 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,439 Speaker 1: companies that came out as a result of that, many 679 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: of which are no longer around, but some of them 680 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: still are anyway. That's a look at just a small 681 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: number of discontinued operating systems. Like I said, there are 682 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 1: tons more of these. I haven't really scratched the surface, honestly. 683 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: I just chose some very high profile, famous ones. So 684 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,919 Speaker 1: I'll likely do lots more episodes with retrospectives on these 685 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: older operating systems in the future. Like I said, I 686 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: need to do one that's just on smartphones or cell phones, 687 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 1: because there are quite a few of those as well. 688 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,439 Speaker 1: In the meantime, I hope that all of you are 689 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: doing really well. Thank you very much for listening, and 690 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: I'll talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff is 691 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 692 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 693 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: favorite shows.