WEBVTT - 3: The Nearing Death Experience 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:11.640 I'm just a fool. We fear and strange. Welcome to death, 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:16.440 grief and other ship we don't discuss. I'm Kyle McMahon. 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:26.880 In November, my beloved mo Mom had passed. That was 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:31.960 really where Mom went downhill. Up until then, Mom was 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.199 fighting through thick and thin, determined to beat this horrible disease. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.159 There were so many ups and downs. It was a 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.080 roller coaster of emotion. We'd get great news and I'd 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.800 hold on to that and that would get me through, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:51.560 at least for a while. When doubt or anxiety would 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.680 start creeping in, I'd remind myself of the good news 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.880 the doctor had shared during her last appointment. No matter 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.080 how small that good news was, I was holding onto 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.240 it with a death grip. It was those small bits 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:08.360 of hope that got me through each day. As it 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.920 got closer to the next appointment, those good feelings would 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.120 slowly turn to doubt as each hour brought us closer 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:20.200 to her updated status. Doubt would turn to despair, and 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:28.039 despair would turn into anxiety and depression. When the next 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.200 appointment came around, I'd anxiously wait with my phone in hand, 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.440 counting down the minutes until I expected a phone call 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.600 from Mom or Dad with the update. Sometimes those updates 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:45.400 were positive and other times they weren't. As we had 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.000 been going through these ups and downs of Mom's cancer 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.680 journey over the last two years, it was really really 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.720 taking a toll on me. I had splotches of gray 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.720 hair that just appeared overnight, as if I had seen 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.760 a ghost. I was losing weight because I would go 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.240 through periods of not wanting to eat anything at all, 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.800 because I just didn't feel like eating. There were days 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:08.960 when I had to block it all out just to 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:14.079 survive the day. I'd become fearful of going too far 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.000 from home in case I got a call that I'd 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.519 have to run over to my parents house for some 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:23.359 unspecified reason I had created in my mind. And now 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.280 that I knew Mom's time was limited, all of that 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:30.040 was happening more and more frequently. I could see what 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.040 it was doing to her. She had lost so much 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.680 weight in just a couple of months. She was nearly 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.000 skin and bones. She was holding on for me and 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.680 for Dad, but I could see that her grip was loosening, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:49.960 and it was through no fault of her own. She'd 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.560 still have some good days, but they were becoming further 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:58.760 and farther between. I'd see she posted some inspiring saying 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.560 or photo on Facebook, and I'd get so excited because 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.680 I knew that meant she was feeling well, at least 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.840 well enough to be on her phone for that moment. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.799 Her text to me became less frequent too. That's when 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.560 it really started hitting home for me. I was her 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.560 baby boy, her entire world. If I didn't see her 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.640 or didn't talk to her on the phone, we would 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:27.320 have definitely texted back and forth. I continued to text 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.040 her each morning with hearts and a good morning to 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:31.920 let her know I was thinking of her and I 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.520 love her. As the days went on, I was at 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.280 my parents nearly every day just to sit with her, 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.200 to talk with her, to tell her how much I 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.800 love her, even if it was only for a few minutes. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.600 I began to remember what she had begun asking me 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.240 just a few months before her diagnosis took a turn 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.600 for the worst, and it made so much more sense now. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:57.560 Just out of the blue, one day, she said to me, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.520 straight up, Kyle, I need to know you're gonna be okay. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.800 And I was angry for her asking such a thing. Mom, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.640 What are you talking about You're not going anywhere, so 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.920 of course I'm gonna be okay. I was legitimately mad 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.240 at her for asking me such an insane question. I 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.080 thought to myself, are you giving up hope? Is that 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.719 why you're asking me this? She'd dropped it, and then 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.640 a few days later bring it up again, and she 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.680 would get the same response from me. Finally, after we 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.440 got the news that her options had become very limited, 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:38.200 she asked me once again, Kyle, please for me, I 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.440 need to know that you're gonna be okay. I started 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.640 crying and I gave her a big hug. I don't 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:50.120 know how, Mom, but of course I'll be okay. She 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.200 told me to promise her. I promise you. I'm not 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.279 sure how I'm gonna do it, but I will find 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:01.000 a way to be okay. I promise you. Mom passed 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:11.000 that night. Of course, we all have different definitions of 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.560 what okay means. I knew in many ways I would 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.560 not be okay when she goes. How could I possibly 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.080 be okay with my rock being torn from me? What 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.640 she was really asking me, though, it was for me 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.680 to promise her that I will make it through this, 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.240 that I'll make it through this life without her. If 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.960 you think about it, this was really a brilliant move 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.719 by my mom. How could you look someone in the 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.080 eyes on their deathbed and lie to them? I certainly couldn't, 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.640 And she knew that getting me to promise her that 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.039 I would make it through was her way of being 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.040 assured that I wouldn't sink so low into a cycle 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.480 of despair and depression and sadness that I do something 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:57.440 irrational and irreversible. I know that by promising her that 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.240 I would make it through, that gave her the peace 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:07.920 and ultimately the permission to let go. When I think 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:13.440 about those final days, I instantly fill up. By that point, 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.680 Mom couldn't get out of bed on her own. She 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.240 needed help just to eat. This is not the woman 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.600 who just a few months prior to that was driving 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.920 herself around and filming instructional dance videos with my dad 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.520 in their living room. Cancer was stealing my mom right 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.240 in front of me, and I was powerless to stop it. 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.159 I held out for a last minute miracle, but I 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.960 was even starting to doubt that. You know, it was 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.880 getting really bad for me, because I started binging unsolved 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:51.240 mysteries for hours every single day. I was retreating into 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.039 my bubble more and more often, and to be honest, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.760 it was safe there. I'd go and visit Mom, and 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.160 although I'd sit with her and talk about all kinds 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.760 of stories about her life growing up or my life 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:08.120 growing up, and that made me and her happy, the 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.920 second I got out the door, I'd barely make it 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.440 to my car before I just start sobbing. I knew 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.080 that she was nearing death, and no amount of praying, 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.559 no amount of anger, no amount of sadness, no amount 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:26.520 of action was going to change that. I cherished every 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.840 moment that I could spend with her. But at the 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.720 same time, I couldn't spend too much time with her 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.040 because she'd start getting in serious pain, and I couldn't 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.640 just stand by and watch my mom crying and wailing 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.880 in pain. I just couldn't do it, no matter how 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.440 hard I wanted to be by her side every single 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:52.680 second until the end. Thankfully, Dad did do it, and 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.160 I knew that she couldn't be in better hands than 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.240 those of the love of her life. She trusted him 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:03.440 with her care and her life, and so did I. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.920 I knew that there was not another person on this 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:11.200 earth as perfectly equipped as Dad to help Mom. Dad's 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.560 military experience had given him the gifts of being able 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.119 to take care of Mom, from helping her to eat, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.960 to giving her the right meds at the right time, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.800 to helping her sleep. Dad did it all. As I 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.680 had mentioned before, Mom had always been the caretaker for 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.040 me and Dad throughout both of our lives. Bills, Mom 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.080 had taken care of him, dinner, Mom's already got it 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.920 planned out. Clothes. Mom knew exactly how to dress Dad 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.520 to make him look his best, so she'd update his 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.960 wardrobe often. Mom has everything taken care of here, so 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.680 Dad can go and just worry about work. It wasn't 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.920 always easy, but Mom had literally taken care of Dad 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.200 and I from day one where we never even had 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:00.920 to think about it, through deployments and homecomings and promotions. 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:07.360 Mom stood by him and me through it all. And 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.120 now here was Mom unable to do any of it, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.160 unable some nights to even muster the strength of bringing 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.959 the water bottle to her lips. But there was Dad 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.640 right by her side as Mom had been by his. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.320 On a larger scale, it was truly a beautiful switch, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.280 but at ground level, it was a devastating one. You 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.760 have to watch your wife, who has been so strong 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.000 throughout her life mentally and physically, to be in the 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.640 state to have to watch your mom or anyone you 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:45.360 love go through this. It's painful, it's traumatic, it's horrible, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.880 it's not fair, and it's something that truly never ever 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:56.040 leaves you. I can never thank Dad enough for the 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.880 strength he displayed for me and for Mom. He got 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.960 her through like she was there every step of the 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:07.200 way throughout his life personally and professionally. Here was Dad 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.679 helping Mom along every step of the way out of 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.120 hers I wouldn't have had it any other way, and 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.440 more importantly, Mom wouldn't have had it any other way either. 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.200 They aren't just a husband and wife, their friends and 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.960 how many people can honestly say that in their marriage 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.959 they enjoyed doing things together. They enjoy just being together. 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.560 They always have each other's backs, even until the very 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:50.520 end of Mom's life. I was binging unsolved mysteries when 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.240 I got a text from Dad, I'm outside. It was 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.720 strange to have Dad stopped by unannounced. I mean, of 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.160 course I didn't care. My parents were free to come 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.719 over whenever they wanted, just as I did at their 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.120 house my entire life. But it was an odd thing 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.520 for Dad to do without letting me know he was 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.680 coming ahead of time, so I knew that something was 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.440 going on. I came outside to meet him, and I 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.840 could see he had been crying. He said, immediately, they're 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:24.680 running out of options, Kyle. We both just broke down 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:28.840 and hugged, and he said to me, I don't know 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.160 how we're gonna do it, but we'll get through this together. 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.200 I couldn't believe the words that I had just heard. 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.040 I had sensed that it was coming, but when it 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.160 actually comes, there's nothing you can do to prepare yourself 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.559 for it. Dad had been so optimistic and so war 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.880 ready throughout Mom's cancer journey. To hear him say those words, 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.959 I knew that he meant it. Just a few weeks 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.280 after that, Dad called me to say that Mom's time 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.680 was getting very very short. You would have to call 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.880 a priest to give her her final rights. I was 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.600 a half hour away working on a project with fright 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.080 Land Haunted Attractions. I couldn't believe the words that I 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.160 was hearing. It wasn't real to me. None of it 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.040 felt real at all. It was like a movie that 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.720 I was watching, not something that was actually happening to me. 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.960 I immediately left and drove the half hour back to 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.720 my parents house. My mind was racing. I'm sobbing my 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:37.960 heart breaking. Dad had said that the doctors think the 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.120 TPN bag, the bag that was essentially feeding her, was 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:47.120 also feeding the cancer. It was growing quickly, so much 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.280 so that some of her organs were starting to show 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.880 signs of failure. This was all happening so very fast, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.400 way too fast. I drove right to my parents house 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.160 and ran in and just sat with Mom and hugged 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.400 her and kissed her and cried. What can I do? 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.520 What can I say? There was nothing that someone can 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.120 do to change the situation, and that hurts even more. 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:20.600 At this point, that probably hurts the most. I stayed 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.360 and hung out with Mom for a while, and once 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.960 she started feeling the pains, I mentally had to go. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.000 Before I had left, Mom and I just sat together 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.520 and cried and hugged and talked. She said to me, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.120 whenever you're having a bad day, talked to me. I'm there. 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.200 Whenever you need me, Just talk to me, even if 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:47.959 you don't see me, I'm there with you. Always, and 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.720 if there's anyone on this earth that would move heaven 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.760 in hell to find a way to still be with me, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.640 it's Mom. I believe her when she tells me that 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.360 she'll be with me forever. And with that converse station, 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.640 I realized that we're getting really close to the end. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.840 This woman, the most influential and consequential person in my world, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.400 in my entire life, she was preparing to soon leave it, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:19.800 and none of it felt real. The next few days, 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.880 like so much of this journey, we're just a blur. 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:29.080 Until that day the priest came to my parents house 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.440 and gave Mom her last rites. I was in the 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.680 room physically, but for some reason, it was like I 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.880 was watching it as an outsider. How is this even happening. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.680 This has to be some sort of nightmare that I'll 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.280 wake up from and Mom will be okay. It just 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:53.680 has to be. If you're unfamiliar, the last Rites are 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:59.520 one of the catholics seven sacraments Baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, confession, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.480 anointing of the sick, Holy Orders, and matrimony. The last 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.320 Rites are an incorporation of the sacraments of confession, the 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.080 anointing of the sick and the Eucharist combined with the 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:16.600 Our Father and Apostles creed prayers. It's performed when someone 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.520 is very close to their death. And now here I 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.400 am in my parents room, surrounded by my aunts and 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.920 uncles and cousin, watching the last rites being performed on 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.520 my mom. We had just gone through this a few 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.800 months before with my incredible mo Mom Joan, who I 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.440 was so very close with, and almost a year to 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.840 the day before that, we had gone through it with 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.200 my loving grandmother Audrey. And while of course the loss 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.960 of my grandmother's was hard, they were a bit more expected, 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.800 as both were well into their eighties golden years and 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.520 had lived long, happy lives. But my mom is nowhere 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.200 near her eighties. I just helped her film a dance 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.040 video a few months ago. This is not the way 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.600 it was supposed to work. This is not how this 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.200 is supposed to go. And with father here, this is 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.880 all but an assurance that Mom will go. It's like 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.840 this is seiling her fate. There will be no fourth 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.400 quarter miracle. And no matter how much I tried, I 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.040 just couldn't stop this freight train coming straight for us. 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.840 Lord Jesus Christ, you chose to share our human nature, 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.760 to redeem all people and to heal the sick. Look 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.840 with compassion upon your servant joe Anne, whom we have 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.920 anointed in your name with this holy oil for the 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.760 healing of her body and spirit. Support her with your power, 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.240 Comfort her with your protection, and give her the strength 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.640 to fight against evil. Since you have given her a 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.760 share in your own passion, Help her to find hope 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.320 and suffering for you, our Lord, forever and ever. Amen. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.239 And with that it was done. My beautiful mom had 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.120 just been given her last rights. A priest had come 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.640 into the home that my mom and dad built together 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.679 over decades, and surrounded by our family, gave Mom her 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:21.600 last rights in just minutes. The United States Catechism for 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.679 Adults states that quote, when the sacrament of anointing of 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.920 the sick is given, the hoped for effect is that, 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.480 if it be God's will, the person be physically healed 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.720 of illness. But even if there is no physical healing, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.159 the primary effect of the sacrament is a spiritual healing, 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.160 by which the sick person receives the Holy Spirit's gift 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.800 of peace and courage to deal with the difficulties that 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:50.959 accompany serious illness or the frailty of old age end quote. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.280 That's so absolutely crazy to me. I guess it wasn't 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.840 in God's will for Mom to not die a horrible 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.760 death from fucking can't sir. I guess it was God's 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.800 will to make his best, most selfless servants suffer unnecessarily 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.560 my feelings aside. I know Mom was happy that she 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.320 received her last rights, just as my mom had done 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.399 just a few months prior. So in the end, I 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:21.359 was happy that she was happy. We all talked and 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.920 hugged and cried, and then Mom spent time one on 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:29.280 one with everyone individually. I didn't know what to do. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.160 I wanted to be at my parents house for Mom 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.840 and for Dad, but I also felt like I was 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:41.040 breaking apart, like I was just physically breaking apart. I'd 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.359 go into my old room, quietly, closed the door and 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.320 just cry. I put my face into the pillow to 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.920 muffle the sounds because I didn't want to upset Mom. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.359 Jason texted me and said that he'd be over in 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.280 a few minutes, so I was counting down the seconds. 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.600 When he arrived, we hugged and I warned him. Mom 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.720 didn't look the same as she did when he last 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:09.120 saw her. Eventually, he did go into my parents bedroom 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.520 and he talked to Mom alone one on one. I 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.240 went back into my old bedroom and just cried, and 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.199 at one point I could hear Mom crying through my 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.160 door and through her door, and I could hear Jason two. 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.399 I didn't want to know what was being said. That 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.040 was their final time together. She loves Jason, and she 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:33.160 always told everyone he's the son of my heart. Dad 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.879 always jokes that Mom got stuck with me, but she 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:40.720 handpicked Jason, and now here was his final moments here 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.679 on earth with the woman who was like a second 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:48.240 mom to him since we were kids. Eventually, he knocked 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.320 on my bedroom door to let me know who was done, 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.120 and so we went outside and talked. His eyes were bloodshot, red, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.760 tears streaming down his face, and we hugged as he 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.080 told me, I wasn't ready for that. She just doesn't 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:09.240 look like her, and Jason was spot on. Mom didn't 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.480 look like she normally looked. Cancer was ravaging her body. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:18.480 By the second, her pure snow white skin had turned yellowish, 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:25.400 her beautiful face had become skeletal, her body frail, her 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.600 mind and her heart were there though, as big as 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.000 they ever were. Jason told me that he had promised 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.760 her he'd watch over me, and that made me cry 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.560 even more. Here was my mom, literally on her deathbed, 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.760 still more concerned about how I will be than being 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.880 concerned over what she's going through. But that's Mom, always 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.919 thinking of others. As Jason and the rest of my 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.640 family said there goodbyes to each other and to me, 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.880 and friends were popping over to say they're goodbyes to Mom, 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.920 I couldn't shake the feeling that this wasn't really happy 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.640 in ing. It really was a feeling that started when 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.560 she was diagnosed, and a feeling that continues to this 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.720 very day. I can't believe any of it is real. 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:16.560 I intellectually know that it's happening, but it doesn't feel real. 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.800 I would also fantasize that maybe once she passes, she'll 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.439 come back. I had read during one of my Google 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.120 fons of googling everything related to the latest and pancreatic 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.600 cancer treatments, that there was this woman who had cancer. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.240 She was then pronounced clinically dead, and then she came back. 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.159 Her name is Anita more Johnny, and she wrote a 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.560 book about her experience called Dying to be Me my 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:48.240 journey from cancer to near death to true healing and 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.800 Anita and her story just suddenly popped in my mind 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.240 as I was standing outside of my parents house. Maybe 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.679 that would be mom. Maybe God will pull through with 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.399 that last minute miracle. I believe that it can happen. 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:24.960 Now will it happen? That is the question. Near death experiences, 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.679 referred to as n d s are much more common 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:32.360 than we think. While once thought to be pseudo science, 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.600 more and more research has been done on the phenomena 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.560 and the data is showing that something is happening with 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:44.679 these people that cannot be explained. In a group of 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.800 doctors in China inadvertently captured some interesting data when a 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.320 patient when under cardiac arrest while undergoing a brain scan. 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.679 What they found was that the brain scan showed the 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.639 same exact type of brain activity before and after the 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.399 heart stop that someone does when they're recalling memories in 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:08.679 their life. This is super interesting because this tracks with 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:13.120 so many nd ears experiences of their life flashing before 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:17.400 their eyes right before they passed. But how much science 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.800 is behind near death experiences? Surprisingly, there's a lot, and 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:25.520 the science is growing every day, I sat down with 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:30.040 Dr Janice Holden, the president of International Association for Near 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:34.919 Death Studies, to discuss near death experiences. Dr Holden was 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.280 the perfect person to discuss this with as she served 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:40.800 as a professor at the University of North Texas and 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:47.280 the Counseling Program, retiring as Professor Emirata. Her research career 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:50.960 over thirty one years at u n T focused on 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:55.560 near death experiences and after death communication. I wanted to 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:59.280 know if there was some kind of typical experience that 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:07.600 people had before they pass Dr Holden explains near death 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:12.320 experiences occur during any close brush with death, and so 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.320 if a person is very ill or has a very 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:20.480 serious injury, and they might have a near death experience. 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.440 And what we know now from researches that of all 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:27.240 the people who survive a close brush with death from whatever, 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:32.720 you know, a car accident, surgery, you know, any any illness, 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:38.280 anything you can think of about don't remember anything unusual. 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:44.400 But about ten to twenty percent remember their consciousness functioning 0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:50.640 very lucidly. And the two main aspects of the experience, well, 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:54.880 there's the experience that some people have of their consciousness 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:57.320 actually leaving their body and at the end of the 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:02.840 experience returning to their body. But in between, they are 0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:07.640 perceiving the material world from a position outside their body, 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:13.840 and or they're perceiving and interacting with beings and environments 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:17.359 that are not of the material world. And so those 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:21.280 those two, those are the two main aspects of the experience. 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:24.520 My it's interesting that you say that because my mom 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:28.520 who passed just about three months before. My mom, I 0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:31.360 was lucky enough to be able to sit with her 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.400 in her final hours and hold her hand, and and 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:38.320 she began talking to her mom who you know, she 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:40.080 was talking to her as if she was standing at 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:44.280 her bedside, and it got me to thinking it was 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:47.360 plain at day to her. I didn't know exactly what 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:50.600 was happening, but I didn't certainly want to ruin that, 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:53.840 you know, so as as she was talking to me, 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:58.520 I was going with it. Yeah. Is that something that's 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:02.119 common that that people report seeing their loved ones to 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:06.200 kind of bring them to the other side or Well, 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:09.560 what you're describing is there there are a group of 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:14.200 different phenomena surrounding death, and what you're describing is what's 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:18.240 called nearing death awareness, where someone who's terminally ill and 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:22.960 they're about to die, often sees deceased loved ones, so 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:27.560 they have actually after death communication with deceased loved ones, 0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:33.800 and the purpose of the communication it's virtually always very 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.520 comforting to the dying person, and the purpose seems to 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:41.399 be to reassure them that, uh, they're not going to 0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:45.000 be alone in their transition process, that that there will 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:48.919 be people there who love and care for them. Is 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:53.600 that unknown? Why? I read somewhere that some doctors somewhere 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.080 was like, oh, well, that's just lack of oxygen to 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:58.760 the brain or something. But to me, from what I've 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:02.000 read and seen, there's got to be more to it 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:07.200 than that that people are specifically seeing that specific thing 0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:09.800 over and over and over again people, no matter what 0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:13.320 the culture and that sort of thing. Is there a 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:18.399 science behind that? Is it as of yet unexplainable? Well, 0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:22.800 you know, most of these experiences are just personal, subjective 0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:28.719 experiences that can't be verified objectively. But there is a 0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:33.760 phenomenon and that's really been the primary focus of my research. 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:38.040 Uh for the reason that we're we're getting at um 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:43.320 called vertical perception, and that's where during the experience, you know, 0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:47.320 whether it's a an experience like your grandmother had, or 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:52.840 a near death experience, or some other death related experience 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:56.920 like after death communication. That can happen to people under 0:27:56.960 --> 0:28:01.520 any circumstances where they'll have perceived the presence of their 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:07.120 deceased loved one. There's this phenomenon where um they get 0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:11.879 information from the experience that based on the condition position, 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:16.280 everything they know, they couldn't possibly know this, and yet 0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:20.919 it's later verified to be accurate. So, for example, in 0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:26.080 after death communication, there's a man whom his name is 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:31.240 John Wigglesworth. His father died and a few days after 0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:34.440 he was at his parents house helping his mom clean 0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:37.520 out his father's stuff, and he remembered that his father 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.760 had told him a few years before that he the 0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:45.000 father had bought a gun and just wanted it in 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:48.240 the house for protection. He hadn't told anybody about it, 0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:50.600 even his wife. He didn't want her to be worried 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:53.880 about it, and he kept it in the closet in 0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:57.000 his bedroom, up on a shelf. And so he said 0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:00.400 to his son, you know, John, whenever the time comes, 0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:02.800 I hope you'll go and retrieve it from the house, 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:04.680 because your mom wouldn't know what to do with it. 0:29:05.080 --> 0:29:08.640 So here he is in the perfect opportunity and he 0:29:08.720 --> 0:29:12.120 searches all around belongs to re short. He didn't find 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:15.960 it there, he didn't find it anywhere, safe deposit box car. 0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:19.880 He just looked everywhere, could not find the gun. Thought well, 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.200 maybe his father had gotten rid of it and hadn't 0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:25.840 mentioned it. He he just didn't know. So a few 0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:28.880 days later, he's asleep and he has this experience while 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:31.360 he's asleep, which I'm not going to call a dream, 0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:35.680 because when people have these experiences, they usually report that 0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:39.080 they're qualitatively different than a dream. You know, dreams are 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:44.320 irrational and and emotional, and these just seem like very 0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:49.760 genuine encounters with the discarnate, which is, you know, a 0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:54.240 word for the deceased. And in this experience, he's in 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:58.120 his parents home and he's walking down the stairs into 0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:00.959 the basement and his father's calling to him from above, 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:03.840 and he's saying, you know, go down the stairs, down 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.840 the hall, into my dark room. Keep going into the 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:10.400 dark room. Across the room to this cabinet. Pulled the 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:12.760 cabinet away from the wall, and you'll find the gun 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.440 lodged between the cabinet and the wall. And so the 0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:20.080 next morning, John wakes up. He remembers his experience. He 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:23.680 wrestles with himself. He thinks, you know, that can't possibly 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:27.200 be dreams, are you know, fantasy? But it gets the 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.880 better of him. He goes to his parents house, Mom, 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.640 you minded fell look around now whatever. He goes downstairs 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.440 into the dark room to the cabinet, pulls it away 0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:40.520 from the wall. There's the gun. And if he's like, 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:43.840 I don't know why my father moved it. I don't 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.480 know why you put it there. He never told me. 0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:51.720 I never knew, except I learned from him after he passed. 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.800 So there are accounts of people who found like missing 0:30:56.920 --> 0:31:02.760 wills and things that like the discarnate had taped an 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:07.760 insurance document in the nightstand, pull out the drawer and 0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:10.560 had taped it up above like this. So it's something 0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:14.200 you would never find unless you knew to look there, 0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:17.240 and he had hidden it there, and they found it 0:31:17.280 --> 0:31:20.920 and got his insurance benefit. And there are cases like 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:25.200 this of near death experiences where like a woman is 0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:32.880 in surgery and um, she unexpectedly flatlines, and so important 0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:35.920 to know that in the surgery, um, they were doing 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:39.280 some kind of abdominal surgery, and so her face and 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.760 head were completely covered, her eyes were taped shut. After 0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:45.600 a few minutes they're able to resuscitate her. Of course, 0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:50.040 the whole time she remains completely anesthetized. They finished the surgery, 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:54.080 take her to recovery, and they're The surgeon comes to 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:57.120 see her once she's you know, awakened kind of back, 0:31:57.560 --> 0:31:59.920 to find out how she's doing, and she says to him, 0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:03.080 I know that I died during the surgery. And he's like, 0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:06.080 how do you know that? And she said, well, because 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:10.520 I saw, from says up above looking through the ceiling, 0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:13.360 and I could see, you know, you did this, and 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.760 this person did that, and then somebody came in and 0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:20.000 did this and then left. So they were only there 0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:24.080 during the cardiac resuscitation part. When she was complete, she 0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:29.360 was dead actually, And he's astounded because all that is accurate. 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:33.160 But then which in my thinking, it's like if he 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:36.680 knew anything, which a lot of doctors don't. But there's 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:39.960 extensive research and there are hundreds of accounts like this, 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:43.640 But she said, um, like I said, I was up 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.240 above the ceiling looking through and I could see into 0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:49.880 the adjacent operating room and there they were amputating a 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.960 man's leg, and when they finished, they put the leg 0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:56.200 into a yellow plastic bag to dispose of it. And 0:32:56.280 --> 0:33:00.080 he's like, what, because he says, I don't even know it. 0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:02.560 Else is being scheduled in the hospital. You know, I 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:06.080 don't pay attention. But now, of course it's a couple 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:10.280 hours after the surgery, and he goes to the hospital 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:13.080 records and finds out that, in fact, while he was 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:16.240 doing the surgery on her, they were amputating a man's 0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.480 leg in the next Star operating room, And because it 0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:22.840 was specialized for amputation, he'd never been in it before, 0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:26.840 but at this particular moment it was empty, so he 0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.440 went and peeked in, and there he saw the yellow 0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:32.840 plastic bags they used to dispose of amputated body parts, 0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:37.520 and so it's kind of like, how could she know this? Well? 0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:39.960 As I said, there are hundreds of accounts like this, 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.880 and just recently they've been collected into a book called 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:47.160 The Self Does Not Die. So you can read one 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:52.000 account after another, most of them submitted by physicians who 0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:56.719 were the witnesses to verify that what the person reported 0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.240 was accurate, and they're from all over the world, and 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:06.360 it's just very very indicative that Even though most of 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:11.239 these types of experiences, near death experiences, nearing death awareness 0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:17.959 after death communication are subjective and don't include vertical information, 0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:23.680 those that do are almost always completely accurate. And when 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:27.880 they happen to people who are during the perception, their 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:33.600 heart was stopped, so they were essentially dead for you know, temporarily, 0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:39.320 and the information they received was very idiosyncratic and nothing 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:44.880 that they could have possibly known. Like one man um 0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:50.440 during his surgical crisis, left his body and he floated 0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:54.719 up through the hospital floors and when he of course, 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:58.600 they resuscitated and finish the surgery. When he came to, 0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:01.200 he was talking to an ears and he's and he 0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:03.880 told her what happened, and he said it was really 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:07.600 weird though, because the floor right above the operating room 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:12.520 there were like people who were frozen in place, and 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:17.360 these computer modules and and he just described various things. 0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:21.399 Well unbeknownst to him, how why would he know right 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:24.960 above the operating room was their training room where they 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:29.359 had mannequins and you know, where they practiced CPR and 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.719 all these different things with the computers and the and 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.360 all the kind of stuff that he saw. But he 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:38.120 saw it while he was rising up through the hospital 0:35:38.360 --> 0:35:43.560 room levels. So you know, how could somebody know that 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:47.640 unless their consciousness really was out of their body. So 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:53.440 these these vertical experience indicate that the experiences that don't 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:58.680 involve vertical information maybe just as objectively real even though 0:35:58.719 --> 0:36:03.120 they don't have the evidence for them. That's incredible and 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:07.200 for me it makes sense. But you know, as as 0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:13.280 a as also a science type person, it's also undeniable, 0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:14.719 you know what I mean. I mean, when you have 0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:17.680 all of these accounts of like you said, there's no 0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:21.240 way that you could know these things, that is something 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:25.040 that there's something to do that you know right right. Well, 0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:30.160 you know, interestingly, people who are I don't call them skeptics, 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:34.360 I call them cynics because they're they're not just skeptic 0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:38.279 really means open mindedly, you know, just staying neutral and 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:41.320 trying to get all the information. But there are people 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.520 who just believe that this is not possible, and so 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:48.600 they try to put forth explanations for how these things 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:52.920 can happen, like, um, oh, the person must have overheard 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:57.360 nurses talking about this and don't remember overhearing it. Well, 0:36:57.520 --> 0:37:00.880 that might happen in one situation, but when you've got 0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:04.319 you know, more than a hundred accounts, and nobody is 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:08.439 saying I actually heard people talking about this, and just then, 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.239 you know, kindued up the image. They're not saying that, 0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:16.000 they're saying I experienced this. It just doesn't it doesn't 0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:20.440 hold water. What is some of the other phenomenon you know, 0:37:20.520 --> 0:37:23.959 you talked about in regards to my my mom with 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:28.560 the visiting of loved ones? What are some of the 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:33.160 other phenomenon that is either you know, common or has 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:38.160 happened or well. Um, The two things that I'm most 0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:42.120 knowledgeable about, though I do have knowledge of some of 0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:45.560 the other kinds of phenomena that happened around death are 0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:50.200 near death experiences where the person does have a close 0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:53.359 brush with death that then they survive and go on 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:56.680 to you know, live the rest of their life. And 0:37:56.880 --> 0:38:01.560 after death communication where a living person and perceives the 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:06.319 presence of a deceased loved one, and that presence can 0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:11.080 take any of a number of forms. Um and so 0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:14.880 so both of those things happen, So they're um in 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:18.600 terms of the experience that experiences themselves. Of course, they're 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:23.640 different because in the near death experience, the person's uh 0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:28.319 for the almost all near death experiences or experiencers will 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:33.600 say that their consciousness was outside their body and either 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:38.760 observing the material world or observing and interacting with beings 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:44.200 and environments not of the material world. And after death communication, 0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:48.920 the living person continues to just live, you know, and 0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.480 they don't have the sense of their consciousness leaving their body. 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:56.080 They had the sense of the deceased coming to be 0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:59.920 with them, as in the case of your your grandmother's experience. 0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:06.239 So so phenomenologically they're different, but um. But what they 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:11.200 have in common is that in the Western world, um, 0:39:11.280 --> 0:39:15.760 at least many cultures of the Western world, not all. UM, 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:21.759 these phenomena, because they involve interaction with with non material 0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:29.240 beings and environments, they're just looked on negatively. Um as uh. 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:34.480 You know, the prevailing view in sciences and materialism, the 0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:38.759 idea that everything arises from a physical source. And so 0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:41.919 if you have an experience like this, it's just your 0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:45.399 mind playing tricks on you. You know, like you said, 0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:49.400 lack of oxygen to the brain, blah blah blah, and um. 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:53.880 The problem is that, like with things like um after 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:58.880 death communication, people have those experiences when they're perfectly healthy, 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:02.880 so there's no of oxygen to the brain or um 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:10.200 any other explanation that can consistently explain all cases. And 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.239 the same is true with near death experiences. We know 0:40:13.360 --> 0:40:19.080 from research that in cases where people who survived cardiac 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:23.880 arrest were monitored for their blood oxygen level, there was 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:27.640 no relationship between how much oxygen was in their brain 0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:30.600 and whether or not they reported a near death experience. 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:36.600 So that explanation just doesn't hold water and um, and 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:41.080 the same can be said of every theory that's developed. 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:46.040 Like one physician thought that more people who have had 0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:51.040 near death experiences also report sleep sleep paralysis. So so 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:56.080 this one doctor hypothesized that there might be a relationship 0:40:56.200 --> 0:41:01.240 with sleep paralysis, and he found higher reports of sleep 0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:06.080 paralysis among near death experiencers, but not everybody. You know, 0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:08.160 there are a lot of your death experiencers who have 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:12.880 never experienced sleep paralysis. So it just doesn't it just 0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:16.040 doesn't hold water. And so you can just go through 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:19.880 the list and and essentially shoot down the validity of 0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:24.479 anything that's been explained, except and then when you take 0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:28.759 political perception on the other hand, and say, you know, 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:32.760 there are all these cases where people have gotten information 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:35.960 that there's just no way to explain how they could 0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:39.440 have gotten except that they were actually like out of 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:43.000 their body or communicating with a deceased loved one. Then 0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:46.480 you know, it's it just points to the that there's 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:51.040 a reality to the experiences. And what I find interesting 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:54.640 about this is that there are so many commonalities. And 0:41:54.680 --> 0:42:00.080 again it's it's irregardless of religion or spirituality or you know, 0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:05.560 where they live or whatever. What are some of those Yeah, well, 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:08.279 first of all, you're absolutely right that we know from 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:13.040 research that near death experiences are equal opportunity experiences. They 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:19.000 happen to every demographic, anything, any characteristic you can think 0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:23.400 of it differentiates people. Has not shown a differentiation for 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:28.360 near death experiences, so they just happened to everybody, anybody. 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:34.560 Um So, some people actually report the experience of leaving 0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:38.040 their body, their consciousness leaving their body, not everybody does. 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:43.320 And then some near death experiencers report perceiving the material 0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:48.400 world from above, and usually it's above their body, outside 0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:53.080 their body, usually above, and in that process, the material 0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:56.200 world appears just the same as it does to us, 0:42:56.440 --> 0:42:59.960 you know, when we're in our bodies, and their additional 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:04.080 factors like our features, like the person can both see 0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:11.000 and see through a wall. The person their location changes 0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:14.040 based they move at the speed of thought, like if 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:17.560 the person thinks, oh my gosh, you know, um, I 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:21.920 must be dead. They're looking down, they see this body 0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:27.320 and it's like, oh, oh wait a minute, that's that's me. Well, 0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:30.000 I must be dead. Oh my gosh, I wonder where 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.600 mom and dad are and then boom, there in the 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:36.080 waiting room of the hospital where mom and dad are sitting. 0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:40.960 Mom is praying, Dad is reading magazine. And you know, 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:44.200 of course, later the person can report what they were 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:47.719 doing at the time of the of the medical crisis. 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:52.520 So there's that perception of the physical world, um, and 0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:56.080 these special features of being in that in that state. 0:43:56.960 --> 0:44:01.200 And then some people have an experience of uh moving 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:08.800 rapidly through some structure or through space and like really fast, 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:12.919 like hum you know, Star Wars kind of speed. And 0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:16.879 sometimes they perceive that they're moving through something that looks 0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:20.800 like a tunnel. But the tunnel is different to different people, 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:22.920 Like some say it's dark with the light at the end. 0:44:23.040 --> 0:44:25.480 Some say that the tunnel itself is light and that 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:27.680 sort of thing. So, and it doesn't have to be 0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:30.439 a tunnel, it could be a space or something like that. 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:36.280 But typically there's movement towards a light, and once the 0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:41.480 person I'm calling their consciousness, the person you know, reaches 0:44:41.560 --> 0:44:44.000 the light, they discovered that the light is a being 0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:50.960 and this being exudes absolute complete knowledge of the person 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:56.800 and absolute complete love, and so the person feels absolutely known, 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:01.600 absolutely loved, and a lot their death experiencers who never 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:04.880 met each other say that the experience of being in 0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:08.600 the light is coming home with capital H O M E. 0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:14.719 This is this is like where they essentially feel the safest, 0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:18.279 feel like they're from. They know it's familiar and that 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:21.400 sort of thing. Well, while in the presence of the 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:25.560 being of light, some people have a life review and 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:31.000 they both review and re experience typically every moment of 0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:37.000 their life, but also simultaneously, while they're re experiencing it personally, 0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:40.480 they're also at the same time observing it as a 0:45:40.560 --> 0:45:46.840 third person and and they're also experiencing being every person 0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:51.200 with whom they interacted, so that if they said something 0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:54.960 nice to the person, they experience being the person and 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:59.160 receiving that positive message and how that felt. If they 0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:05.360 mistreated the person, they experience the mistreatment and um not 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:12.359 uncommonly when people you know, inevitably encounter situations where they 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:16.839 mistreated somebody else they feel like shame or regret or 0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:19.520 that sort of thing, and the Being of Light is 0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:25.160 not judgmental. They tends to be kind of philosophical and 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:29.719 most often inviting the person to reflect on what they 0:46:30.200 --> 0:46:34.680 learned from that experience. And so when you know, to 0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:37.520 fast forward a little bit after the person is you know, 0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:42.279 survives and returns to physical life. This is one of 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:45.640 the aspects of the near death experience that's most impactful 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:50.160 because then now people know everything I do to you, 0:46:50.360 --> 0:46:54.880 say to you, even think about you, I'm gonna experience 0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:57.960 being on the receiving end of that. And so it 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:03.520 informs people's decisions moment to moment, and um not in 0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:07.200 a burden some way, because there's also the knowledge that 0:47:07.320 --> 0:47:09.160 you know, if I screw up, I'm not going to 0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:13.680 be like damned or anything like that, but just the 0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:19.440 they're not wanting to engender in other people the suffering 0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:22.640 that they know that they would be engendering if they 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:28.759 do something you know, harmful. So then often people sometimes 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:32.520 following the encounter with the Being of Light, they moved 0:47:32.520 --> 0:47:36.240 to other trans material you know, not of the material 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:41.000 world environments and encounter deceased loved ones like you know, 0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:44.400 you would see your grandmother again or um, your mom 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:48.600 or that sort of thing, and also interact with other 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:54.680 spiritual beings um some of whom may seem to maybe 0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:59.920 have lived as humans and some not necessarily and usually 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:03.920 for there's like wisdom, guidance and things like that that 0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:11.040 is engendered for the person, and there maybe other aspects, 0:48:11.120 --> 0:48:17.880 you know. Sometimes people encounter these beautiful environments. Sometimes they're preternatural. 0:48:18.000 --> 0:48:23.200 With grass, every blade of grass has its own consciousness 0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:27.399 and the beautiful music that is nothing like people see 0:48:27.400 --> 0:48:30.960 on earth. People say in these environments they see colors 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:35.640 that they never saw on earth. And sometimes people see 0:48:35.960 --> 0:48:42.920 like cities of light and knowledge where entities are doing work. 0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:46.879 You know, I don't know exactly what. So people see 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:50.640 things like that as well. And then there's the return 0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:55.120 to the body against Some people experience actually returning re 0:48:55.480 --> 0:48:58.560 entering their physical body, and others don't. If they do 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:02.920 perceive themselves leaving their body and are returning to their body, 0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:06.800 it's not necessarily the same between two people. One person 0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:09.680 might you know, the tap of their head, another through 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:12.479 their chest, another just have a sense of a full 0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:16.720 body exit. It just it varies from person to person. 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:25.839 So yeah, that's that's the the experience itself. As I 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:30.000 struggled with my own spiritual beliefs, I had to wonder 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:34.680 if people that had near death experiences had any kind 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:39.480 of similarities in their spiritual beliefs. Do Christians have nd 0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:44.680 ease less than Jewish people? Do atheists see a light 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:49.480 and experience what a Christian person may call heaven? Coming 0:49:49.560 --> 0:50:03.200 up next, Dr Holden explains it all through mom's cancer journey, 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:06.719 I had been going back and forth in a struggle 0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:10.839 with my faith. While I would definitely consider myself spiritual 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:14.840 more than religious, I had fallen back on my Catholic 0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:19.240 upbringing and mom's time of need. After all, what better 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:21.840 way to get through something than to rely on a 0:50:21.920 --> 0:50:24.160 higher power to do it for you. So that made 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:29.319 me wonder do people who have strong religious faith experience 0:50:29.520 --> 0:50:33.400 nd ease more or less than somebody who doesn't believe 0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:37.239 in a higher power? Does one religion experience NDEs more 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:48.560 than another? Dr Holden dives in, Sometimes it explicitly represents 0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:54.880 itself as Jesus. Let's say, sometimes the person themselves interprets 0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:57.880 they and they'll say, he didn't say he was Jesus, 0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:02.040 but I'm sure it was. And then sometimes the person 0:51:02.040 --> 0:51:05.799 will say, you know, I met this wise beyond anything 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:08.759 being and they don't try to put a label on 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:14.120 it at all. So it really just depends culture, including 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:20.040 our cultural beliefs, including our religious beliefs, may influence what 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:24.760 we see are how we see it. It certainly influences 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:29.960 how we interpret it and so. But people are not 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:34.880 in any way limited to perceiving things that their religious 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:40.560 or cultural background prepared them for. Um. There are often 0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:45.959 surprising things that happened that contradict what the person would 0:51:45.960 --> 0:51:49.440 have thought. And one example is that sometimes in n 0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:55.000 d s people see previous lives and future lives, and 0:51:55.160 --> 0:51:59.640 this happens to people of all belief systems, even agnostics 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:04.800 who don't believe that the consciousness even survives physical death 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:09.320 more or less reincarnation or something like that. So after 0:52:09.880 --> 0:52:14.080 these experiences, people are much more likely to believe in 0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:18.840 reincarnation based on the their experience of what they knew, 0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:22.480 you know, um happened to them. And by the way, 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:27.120 near death experiences people almost always report that the experience 0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:31.919 was as real or more real than this reality. And 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:35.399 I remember when I was doing my dissertation, I read 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:40.080 one of the participants responses to my question about the 0:52:40.160 --> 0:52:44.560 extent to which they believed the experience was real, and 0:52:44.640 --> 0:52:48.720 he wrote, the experience was more real than sitting here 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:52.279 writing this response to you. I still get chills when 0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:56.000 I when I recount that, it just really struck me. 0:52:56.960 --> 0:53:02.920 Uh So, subjectively, people usually are not at all doubting 0:53:02.960 --> 0:53:07.120 of what they experience. Now, sometimes people are, um, they 0:53:07.320 --> 0:53:11.319 because the experience can be so different from what our 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:15.320 culture prepares us for that it just like isn't making 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:18.640 sense and can the person kind of tends to pooh 0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:24.160 pooh it. But then usually the experience continues to press 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:27.279 itself on them, you know, and and they start to 0:53:27.480 --> 0:53:32.879 really consider the possibility that that there's a lot more 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:37.040 than what our culture ever prepared us for. That's incredible. 0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:42.759 And they ramifications of that um challenge a lot of 0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:45.920 what we can explain in black and white, you know, 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:51.040 And that's that's a powerful thing. It is what is 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:54.800 something that you've seen? You know? When they come back, 0:53:55.200 --> 0:53:58.200 do they want to go back to that place again 0:53:58.280 --> 0:54:02.200 once their consciousness has come back to our place? Or 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:05.760 are they content with I'm going to get there again, 0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:08.919 but now I have a different meaning with my life 0:54:08.920 --> 0:54:11.840 going forward, or or speak a little bit about that. Yeah, 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:14.800 actually both of what you said and and actually those 0:54:14.840 --> 0:54:19.000 things can coexist. I've heard a lot of near death 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:24.000 experiencers talk about this deep longing to return to you know, 0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:29.200 this wonderful experience, um. And at the same time, in 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:34.480 the experience, people tend to learn that our lives have meaning, 0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:38.320 our lives are important. We're here for a reason. The reason, 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:43.880 according to near death experiencers in general, is to advance 0:54:43.920 --> 0:54:49.880 in our capacity to love and to acquire knowledge and 0:54:50.000 --> 0:54:53.040 so so at the same time that they really want 0:54:53.120 --> 0:54:58.080 that they're satisfied with I won't say satisfied, but they're 0:54:58.080 --> 0:55:02.480 willing to stay and and play out what they were 0:55:02.560 --> 0:55:08.040 intended to get from this lifetime. Mm hmm wow. What 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:13.600 is if any um? Is there a trend in how people, 0:55:14.040 --> 0:55:17.919 you know, once they have come back and how they 0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:21.239 go forward from then, like for in other words, like 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:23.960 do you see they start to volunteer more so you 0:55:24.000 --> 0:55:27.920 know anything like right, yeah, well yeah, And this is 0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:30.719 the other aspect that's been very well researched is the 0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:35.600 after effects of near death experiences, and generally speaking, you know, 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:40.080 near death experiences themselves can range in depth, like somebody 0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:43.120 might just like pop out of their body, see the 0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:45.719 scene of the car accident and then pop back in 0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:50.080 and that's it. And other people have these extensive experiences 0:55:50.160 --> 0:55:52.879 with all these trans material entities and all this kind 0:55:52.880 --> 0:55:57.279 of stuff. And generally speaking, the deeper than near death experience, 0:55:57.360 --> 0:56:01.720 the more intense the after effect. But even that isn't 0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:05.479 always the case. I've seen some people who had very 0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:09.799 quick end ease who had pretty powerful after effects, and 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:13.080 the after effects we know from research now tend to 0:56:13.120 --> 0:56:16.680 fall into what I like to categorize in four categories, 0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:21.040 so their psychological after effects. The biggest one is that 0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:25.000 almost everybody who's had a near death experience completely loses 0:56:25.040 --> 0:56:28.759 their fear of death. They know from experience that their 0:56:28.760 --> 0:56:32.560 consciousness is going to continue, so they don't have anything 0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:37.240 to fear. And like one near death experiencers said, dying 0:56:37.400 --> 0:56:41.359 is like walking from this room into the next. It's 0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:44.799 just like that. So there's no fear now. They may 0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:48.200 still fear the dying process nobody wants to suffer, but 0:56:48.360 --> 0:56:52.680 death itself they don't fear. And at the same time, 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:58.239 they value life more and really appreciate that there are 0:56:58.400 --> 0:57:01.960 things that we can waste, that we can develop at 0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:06.200 this level of reality that aren't available at any other 0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:11.040 level of reality. So they appreciate the unique opportunity that 0:57:11.400 --> 0:57:16.840 life on earth brings. They tend to become much less 0:57:16.920 --> 0:57:22.320 materialistic concerned about material things. They still enjoy material things, 0:57:22.560 --> 0:57:25.680 but they just don't have the attachment to them that 0:57:25.880 --> 0:57:29.720 some people have, and and they become less concerned about 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:33.280 things like fame and um, you know, other kind of 0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:38.840 fleeting fleeting things in physical existence. So those are some 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:43.280 of the psychological aspects. UM. Then there are spiritual aspects, 0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:48.440 and many people after ends become very interested in spirituality 0:57:48.480 --> 0:57:52.240 and will read and like try out different churches and 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:57.560 things like that. Interestingly, most end years, UH, if they 0:57:57.600 --> 0:58:01.480 were affiliated with religion prior to their n D, they 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:06.200 disaffiliate after not because of like rejection, but just because 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:11.440 no religion is big enough to explain everything they experienced. 0:58:11.880 --> 0:58:16.080 But some become even more involved in their in their religion. 0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:20.720 So there's no like one um pattern. But I will say, 0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:24.040 like I have a friend who's Catholic and he became 0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:27.360 a deacon after his near death experience, but in his 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:32.600 first homily he talked about near death experiences. So you know, 0:58:32.640 --> 0:58:36.440 it's kind of like you just can't escape it. And uh, 0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:42.040 people develop what in some religious systems are called spiritual gifts. 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:46.680 There's psychic abilities, people foresee the future, they know what 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:53.800 other people are experiencing, telepathy, and even developed psychokinesis um so, 0:58:53.960 --> 0:58:56.840 which is the ability to move things without the use 0:58:56.880 --> 0:59:01.600 of physical force. So so there's the kind of spiritual thing. 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:05.439 So we've talked about psychological and spiritual. Then there are 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:10.520 physical changes. A lot of near death experiencers change their diet. 0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:14.720 Many stop eating meat. But I have an end to 0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:18.360 ear friend, Linda Jackman, who has to have meat every day. 0:59:18.440 --> 0:59:22.760 So again there's no one thing. But there are these tendencies, 0:59:23.480 --> 0:59:27.120 and they tend to need less sleep. Uh. And then 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:33.160 there's this phenomenon related to psychokinesis where electronic things in 0:59:33.200 --> 0:59:38.760 their vicinity tend to malfunction and so cell phones drop, 0:59:39.520 --> 0:59:42.960 computers crash. But that that happens to all of us, 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:46.520 but we know from research that it happens significantly more 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:50.000 to people who have near death experiences. And we know 0:59:50.120 --> 0:59:52.880 that from that research that it happens more when they're 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:58.120 emotionally aroused, and it could be anger or elation. It 0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:02.320 doesn't matter what the emotion and is. It's like emotionality 1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:07.280 generates some kind of energy that makes things go koflui 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:10.320 around them. So the one thing that they usually have 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:13.920 to learn to do if if that happens, is calm themselves. 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:16.439 You know, if your computer crashes right in the middle 1:00:16.440 --> 1:00:18.600 of something, you tend to want to get more angry. 1:00:18.880 --> 1:00:22.160 What they know they have to do is um, you know, 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:24.880 and and kind of and then the computer comes back 1:00:24.920 --> 1:00:28.040 and things work okay. So it's a kind of an 1:00:28.040 --> 1:00:33.360 interesting process. So we've talked about psychological, spiritual, physical, and 1:00:33.400 --> 1:00:38.520 then social, so all these other changes reverberate in people's 1:00:38.520 --> 1:00:42.360 social worlds. A lot of times people will say after 1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:46.760 their near death experience that when they regain consciousness following 1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:49.120 the experience or as soon as the experience was over, 1:00:49.160 --> 1:00:52.000 because you don't have to lose consciousness actually to have 1:00:52.120 --> 1:00:54.959 in your death experience, as soon as it was over, 1:00:55.200 --> 1:01:02.160 they felt transformed. They just felt different and their values 1:01:02.200 --> 1:01:04.440 were different, you know, the things that we've talked about, 1:01:04.920 --> 1:01:10.280 And so imagine if you're married, and again we know 1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:14.960 from research when people marry, they tend to have in Western, 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:19.040 in you know, US culture, they tend to have similar values. 1:01:19.720 --> 1:01:21.560 And then if one of the people has a near 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:24.960 death experience and their values veer off towards you know, 1:01:25.160 --> 1:01:29.280 non violence and you know, concern for others and no 1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:33.360 concern about going shopping again and can't watch TV anymore 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:36.080 because of the violence on it and all that, those 1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:39.919 people tend to divorce. If their values diverge, they tend 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:44.080 to divorce, and the divorce rate is higher than uh 1:01:44.280 --> 1:01:47.800 than the national average for if a person is married 1:01:47.880 --> 1:01:50.240 when they have their n D. But there are a 1:01:50.240 --> 1:01:53.640 few cases where the living person who never had a 1:01:53.680 --> 1:01:56.920 near death experience started out having somewhat more n D 1:01:57.280 --> 1:02:00.680 like values. And so then when this and has their 1:02:00.760 --> 1:02:04.960 n D E, their values converge and they report they 1:02:05.200 --> 1:02:10.600 stay together and they're happier than ever. So if values diverge, 1:02:10.680 --> 1:02:14.600 they divorce. If they converge, they continue. So those are 1:02:14.960 --> 1:02:18.520 that's just one of the ways that the social world reverberates. 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:23.240 A lot of people change jobs. A mafia hitman who 1:02:23.280 --> 1:02:25.960 has had a near death experience just can't do it 1:02:26.000 --> 1:02:30.200 anymore and becomes a high school teacher. So I always 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:32.439 laughed because I was a high school teacher once and 1:02:32.640 --> 1:02:35.720 I often thought that being able to hit people would 1:02:35.720 --> 1:02:40.960 be valuable. I'm just kidding. Um, Yeah, And people change 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:46.960 their affiliations, they change the way their own priorities in life. 1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:52.400 So you know, the pastimes that they did, the organizations 1:02:52.440 --> 1:02:57.000 they affiliated themselves with, those all can change, and usually 1:02:57.080 --> 1:03:03.160 in the direction of you know, charity, caring, benefiting humanity 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:14.320 and the planet and things like that. So there is, 1:03:14.440 --> 1:03:18.720 in fact, plenty of science behind near death experiences, and 1:03:18.760 --> 1:03:24.600 the science is growing every single day. In my opinion, 1:03:25.120 --> 1:03:28.280 there has to be something to this where so many 1:03:28.360 --> 1:03:33.000 people from all different walks of life have all experienced 1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:36.640 similar things, and for so many of them to be 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:39.760 able to explain things that there's no way they would 1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:43.000 know what was happening on the floor above them, for instance, 1:03:43.080 --> 1:03:46.040 and what the people were wearing on that floor. How 1:03:46.120 --> 1:03:49.280 else would you know that there's definitely something to this, 1:03:49.600 --> 1:03:54.040 whether science can explain the specifics yet or not. So 1:03:54.360 --> 1:03:58.400 if Mom did go, could she come back? I prayed 1:03:58.400 --> 1:04:01.640 to God and every other deity known demand for that 1:04:01.720 --> 1:04:06.800 to happen, and ultimately only time would tell. It's quite 1:04:06.840 --> 1:04:10.240 clear that there's a growing mountain of science behind near 1:04:10.280 --> 1:04:15.120 death experiences. But it seems that, for whatever reason, NDEs 1:04:15.240 --> 1:04:17.760 have been much more often with people who had sudden 1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:23.600 deaths and ultimately rebirths. And while those last few days 1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:28.240 on Mom's cancer journey were so inconceivably hard, I did 1:04:28.480 --> 1:04:33.840 take comfort in Mom's words, I'll always be there. Just 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:39.000 talk to me. I'm there and Mom had never broken 1:04:39.000 --> 1:04:41.760 a promise to me, and I believe with all of 1:04:41.800 --> 1:04:56.080 my heart that she won't start now. On the next 1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:59.880 episode of Death, Grief and Other Ship, we don't discuss 1:05:00.680 --> 1:05:06.080 I discuss the day I lost my mom and the 1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:11.320 ramifications of those moments in that final day. Then you've 1:05:11.360 --> 1:05:14.280 heard of midwives, but have you heard of death dulas. 1:05:15.000 --> 1:05:18.560 I speak with death dula Karen Karnats all about what 1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:22.360 death dulas do. Then I speak with Dr John Goodu, 1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:27.720 chief of Christiana Cares Hospice and Palliative Care, will explore 1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:31.560 the differences of hospice and palliative care, how to handle it, 1:05:31.720 --> 1:05:36.560 and more. For more information and resources, please visit our 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:40.760 website at Death and Grief dot Show and joined the 1:05:40.800 --> 1:05:52.440 conversation on our Facebook and Twitter. Come mother, she said, 1:05:52.640 --> 1:06:10.640 she me me, I'm just school avertorny, I'm just school. 1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:14.280 Were over.