1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Holy Moly, 2 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: Holy smokes. Here we are. It's ridiculous history. Technically it's 3 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: winter here in Atlanta, and I gotta say the winter 4 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: is not hitting us that hard yet, right Hi, I'm ben? 5 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: Is it the winter of our discontent? It may well be? 6 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Is that Shakespeare Abraham Lincoln who said that? Uh? Shakespeare? 7 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: I think Richard the Third as spoken by I know here? 8 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: Now here we go, we'll ge Let's get another fun pronunciation, 9 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: Gloucester or is it Glouoster g l o U c 10 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: E s t r gloud star glass? I believe there 11 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: you go? Correct us if we're wrong, I'm null. By 12 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: the way, And as you said, Ben, this is ridiculous history. 13 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: And today we're talking about cannibals. Right well, no bearing 14 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: the lead here, no, I I guess we're just jumping 15 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: straight to it. But before we do, there's our super producer, 16 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram in spirit. Casey had to Casey had to 17 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: make a run, but he'll be back. We understand this 18 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: is La Bouche related business, so we won't ask too 19 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: many questions before we get to cannibalism. Let's start with 20 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: let's ease into cannibalism through a little bit of US 21 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: history or what used to be called the New World. 22 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: So we know, we know that a lot of children 23 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: growing up in public school were taught this sort of 24 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: sanitized version of colonialism, right like the indigenous people, these 25 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: European colonists getting together having some Kumbaya moments, and that 26 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: was very much not the case. You know, some some turkeys, cornycopia, 27 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: all that stuff. They were politely asked to, you know, 28 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: get a move on. Now that that's not how how 29 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: it went down at all, um. But I'll tell you 30 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: another sort of sanitizing uh is the idea that European 31 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: settlers had it easy exactly. So this is the thing. 32 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: People moving from Europe, from whichever country they were coming from, 33 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: to the New World as they would call it, North 34 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: and South America found themselves very much in an alien environment. 35 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: They were unfamiliar with the ecosystem, they were unfamiliar with 36 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: the flora and the fauna, and many times early settlers 37 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: were starving. We're talking about resorting to eating um, not rats, dogs, 38 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: family pets, even boiling shoe leather to subsist on that, 39 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: which is a thing you can do you can't that 40 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: would really do that? Would would that actually provides you 41 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: some nourishment. I mean, there's a reason you don't see 42 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: it as a special at your local restaurant. But yeah, 43 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: in a pinch, in a pinch, interested in a very 44 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: difficult pinch. Today's story is about Jamestown, Jamestown, Virginia. Now, 45 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: of course Jamestown was not the first successful permanent settlement, 46 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: uh in what would become the United States. That prize 47 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: goes to St. Augustine in Florida, which was founded by 48 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: the Spanish in fifteen sixty five. Have you ever been there? 49 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: It's pretty cool, it's pretty it's got some history to it. Anyway, 50 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: that's a that's a story for another day. Right. Uh So, 51 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: let's get the lay of the land. What brought England? 52 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: How did they become the driving force in Jamestown's establishment? Right, So, 53 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the seventeenth century, UM, England was 54 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: not doing such a hot job when it came to 55 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: colonizing America. Spain obviously at first to the party in 56 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: that respect, was kind of the main player controlling vast 57 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: swaths of this new world. UM, in addition to South America, 58 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: Central America, Mexico even and and parts of the Caribbean 59 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: that had a settlement in Florida. There the Spanish, um, 60 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: we're beginning to also considing kind of what is now 61 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: considered the Americans southwest, and the French, who are even 62 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: starting to explore Canada. So with the British, you know, 63 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: being noticeably behind, they decided they really needed to to 64 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: get behind the eight ball here, so they decided to 65 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: establish a permanent English colony in North America in the 66 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: form of Jamestown, which would have been founded in May 67 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: of sixteen oh seven UM just over one hundred settlers. 68 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: Um came on three different chips, the Susan Constant, the Godspeed, 69 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: and the Discovery, and they settled on a y, very 70 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: very narrow, little finger of land in the James River Peninsula. 71 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: They built themselves the kind of infrastructure you would think 72 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: would be necessities for a small kind of upstart colony, 73 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: and things like store houses, forts, sort of fortifying themselves 74 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: so they could protect themselves from any attacks, and of 75 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: course a church and some small houses. And everything was terrible, 76 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: It really really was terrible. Everything was terrible. The settlers 77 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: were in a constant state of emaciation. Near starvation. Also, again, 78 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: I cannot over emphasize how alien this land was to them. 79 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: There were diseases with which they were unfamiliar. You can 80 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: read reports about this on Live science dot com and 81 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: also on History dot com. Look of the what what 82 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 1: do we say? A hundred and four people arrived aboard 83 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: three ships, you know in god Speed Discovery the Susan Constant, 84 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: which is like the coolest name of those one d 85 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: and four nine months later, only thirty eight people were alive. 86 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: And there's some research that says a lot of the 87 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: problems and the fatalities can be attributed to contaminated drinking water. 88 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: There was human waste in the drink of what even 89 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: today sanitation kills millions of people each year. There's a 90 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: lack of there's a crazy conspiracy theory. I mean it's 91 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: it's it's a little more than the theory at this point, 92 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: um though, hasn't been hundreds improven that you know, we 93 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: mentioned all of these different countries vying for superiority in 94 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: the New World, Spain being first and foremost, controlling so 95 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: much of the land. There's a theory that secret agents 96 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: of Spain actually poisoned the well at Jamestown with arsenic, 97 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: and there were very high but varying levels of arsenic 98 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: found in trace amounts in the groundwater near that form. 99 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: And that's that's fascinating. You know, you have to wonder 100 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: about the ruthlessness imprescience that would take on this Spanish side. 101 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: But even if the Spanish Empire had no hand in this, 102 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: played no part in it. The timing for the colonists 103 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: was also terrible, the worst possible timing. They arrived in 104 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: the middle of one of the worst droughts in hundreds 105 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: of years. So even if they were used to hard 106 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: agricultural work, the hard work of farming and plowing and harvesting, 107 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: they would have had a tough time. Notice I said, 108 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: even if they were, they were very unfamiliar with this. 109 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: They were dependent upon supplies from other boats arriving from Europe, 110 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: as well as any trade they could conduct with the 111 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: people who were already living there, the first nations, the 112 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: indigenous people of the land. And they did not spoiler. Uh, 113 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: they did not do a great job of keeping those 114 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: diplomatic channels open. By the winter of sixteen o nine, 115 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: which was just like what two years later. Uh, they 116 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: had already kind of irreparably damaged their relations with members 117 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: of the local indigenous community, and there were still being 118 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: haunted by drought. Uh. They were still, as you said, 119 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: just drinking our snic in the water along with human waste, 120 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: and the ship that was supposed to feed them was 121 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: lost in the Atlantic, real perfect storm. So the from 122 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: sixteen o nine to sixteen ten as a period referred 123 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: to in the history on some of the records as 124 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: the starving time. The leadership of the colony was in 125 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: absolute disarray, and the Powatan Indians, because of that poorly 126 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: cultivated relationship, killed two of every three colonists at at 127 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: the fourt there. So it was just a salute hell 128 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: on Earth. The trade relations they had with the tribes 129 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: of the Virginia Indians was also not very good, so 130 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: they really had no recourse at all without any outside assistance. Yeah, 131 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: for the first two years sixteen or seven to sixteen 132 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: o nine, Captain John Smith was able to trade European 133 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: manufactured goods for corn. This would have been the leader 134 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: of the colony, but he also was a real pill 135 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: and the tribal communities did not care for this. So 136 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: the Virginia Company knew that people were running short of food. 137 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: They sent a fleet of nine ships to the colony 138 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: in July sixteen o nine. They bought enough supplies to 139 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: last through the winter. They also brought new colonists, which 140 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: I guess is sort of replacing the population because so 141 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: many people had died or were died a hurricane came. 142 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: That's not a quote from Hamilton's that's the real thing. 143 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: The fleet got damaged the c venture which we mentioned 144 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: or alluded to earlier. The largest ship was shipwrecked on Bermuda, 145 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: and it was carrying a bulk of supplies and also 146 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: a lot of three prominent leaders. By mid August, some 147 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: of these nine ships arrived at Jamestown, and although they 148 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: lost a ton of supplies, guess what, they didn't lose 149 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: three d colonists. So now there are three hundred more 150 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: mouths two feet just adding insults and injury there. So 151 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: at this point our boy Captain John Um really did himself, 152 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: did a number on himself when a mysterious gunpowder explosion 153 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: injured him quite significantly, and he had to return to 154 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: England in October um and he never would return. George 155 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: Percy became the new president of the Jamestown council and 156 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: really just stepped into an absolute mess. As as as 157 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: we know, Um, there was just this the food supply 158 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: was completely depleted. There were these very cantanker's relationship with 159 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,119 Speaker 1: the native people. The chief of the Powhatan had actually 160 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: um instructed his warriors to attack any livestock or members 161 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: of the colony who were spotted outside of the fort um. 162 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: So it was just an absolute untenable situation. They had 163 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: targets on their backs. Um disease was running rampant um. 164 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: The numbers were dwindling, and now, as you mentioned Ben, 165 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: now that their numbers were increased way beyond what their 166 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: supplies could sustain. So it was really really just getting 167 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: absolutely dire and they were forced to do some serious 168 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: rationing of the supplies they did have, right, and we 169 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: have both statements from Percy at the time as well 170 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: as statements in retrospect at the time. He said, look, 171 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: if we give everybody just half a can of meal 172 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: a day, then maybe we can make it halfway through winter. 173 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: And he said, to satisfy our cruel hunger, we have 174 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: to You know, colonists have gone in the woods looking 175 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: for serpents, snakes, wild unknown roots. But these people are 176 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: cut off and slain by this by what he called 177 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: the salvages. Add to this disease, right, because starvation weakens 178 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: your immune system, so people start falling prey to typhoid, 179 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: to dysentery. Colonists each shoe leather. They kill the horses 180 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: that were brought from England during the summer, and Percy 181 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: would later describe this in the following way, having fed 182 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: upon now horses and dalla beast as long as they lasted, 183 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: we are glad to make shift with vermin as, dogs, cats, 184 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: rats and mice as to eat boot shoes or any 185 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: other leather. So what this is showing us is a unsustainable, 186 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: untenable situation, as you mentioned earlier, Noll, it's also showing 187 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: us an escalation and increasing desperation. And at this point 188 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: we want to say, for our more sensitive listeners, we 189 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: are including some graphic material here because of course, eventually, 190 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: just like the starvation in the DPRK in the nineties, 191 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: eventually the people ran out of dogs and cats and 192 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: mice and leather and they had one thing left. Because 193 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: let's not forget, I mean, this was just an absolute 194 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: frozen wasteland at this point I mean, these creatures would 195 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: have had just as hard a time surviving, especially when 196 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: they became, you know, the food source for these starving colonists. 197 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, what is left ben? I mean, you know, 198 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: they only have a finite amount of things that they 199 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: can turn to, and things are just getting desperate, and 200 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: they're so very isolated, and they make that choice that 201 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: we read about in fiction, you know, um, that the 202 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: idea that you're so desperate that you turn to your 203 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: fellow man and woman um to sustain you. And you 204 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: have to start making those choices as to who gets 205 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: to live and who has to die, and and for 206 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: the benefit of those who are maybe more healthy and 207 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: stronger who could carry on. Yeah, we have we have 208 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: one recording from Captain Smith that we'll just read the 209 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: following two. You one amongst the rest did kill his wife, 210 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: powdered her, and had eaten part of her before it 211 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: was known, for which he was executed as he well deserved. 212 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: That's a relief that part was us And he continues, 213 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: he says, now, whether she was better roasted, boiled or carbonadoed, 214 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: which was their word for barbecue, I know not, but 215 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: of such a dish as powdered wife I had never 216 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: heard of. That's from mental floss. And that sounds almost fictitious, 217 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: doesn't it. It really does. I mean, that is one 218 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: of the most maccab things I've ever heard, especially when you, 219 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, connected up with the fact that that was 220 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: actually a genuine account. And the thing is, we we 221 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: have had these accounts of cannibalism in James Town for 222 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: a long time, but only recently did we really get 223 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: the grizzly you know, proof um that a lot of 224 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: this stuff did take place. And when we'll get to that, 225 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: but here's another account from George Percy. Um. He wrote 226 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: this in nine after this type of behavior had begun, 227 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: And it's a little and in the Old English I 228 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: guess type style, um, well, not Old English, I don't know, 229 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: just kind of a dated dialect, but I'm gonna do 230 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: my best to read it. Um. And now famine beginning 231 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: to look ghastly and pale in every face, that nothing 232 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: was spared to maintain life, and to do those things 233 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: that seem incredible, as to dig up dead corpses out 234 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: of graves and to eat them. And some have licked 235 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: up the blood which hath fallen from their weak fellows. 236 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: Oh bleak, it's heavy. The thing is, we don't just 237 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: have Percy and Smith writing about this. There are multiple 238 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: other accounts that you can find today that refer to 239 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: cannibalism at Jamestown during this time. Now, when we talk 240 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: about cannibalism, if anyone's interested in the grizzly story of this, 241 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: we recommend the cannibalism episode of Stuff they Don't Want 242 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: You to Know, which UH analyzes the reports of cannibalism, 243 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: analyzes the types of cannibalism without going too far into 244 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: the grizzly morbid weeds here want to establish that this 245 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: is a type of cannibalism known as survival cannibalism. It's 246 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: not ritualized. It's not a ceremonial thing to commune with 247 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: ancestors or to reinforce any spiritual belief. This is, as 248 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: Percy said, a matter of survival. But for a long time, 249 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: as I believe you alluded to earlier, noal we had 250 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: no solid proof. We just had multiple accounts of people 251 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: saying that someone else did it, you know what I mean. 252 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: We didn't have anybody writing something along the lines of 253 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: a first person experience with cannibalism, just that you know, 254 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: this person killed their wife. These other people are victimizing 255 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: the weak. In earlier excavations at the Jamestown site, which 256 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: has been extensively analyzed, there were bodies of dogs and 257 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: horses and cats that they could determine were consumed during 258 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: this went or the starving times sixteen o nine to 259 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: sixteen ten. But it wasn't until August of two thousand 260 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: and twelve that archaeologists working for the Preservation Virginia Jamestown 261 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: Rediscovery Project found some fragments. They found skeleton fragments belonging 262 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: to a girl who was around probably around the age 263 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: of fourteen when she died. She was buried in a 264 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: trash filled cellar inside the Jamestown Fort. And you know, 265 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, the Jamestown Fort is on the 266 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: on Jamestown Island. It's pretty small. It's twenty two and 267 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: a half acres. After they were examining these bones, a 268 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: physical anthropologists working for the Smithsonian named Douglas Owsley noticed something. 269 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: He said, you know, the girls remains, her skull, her jaw, 270 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: leg bone. They bore some disturbing marks. They had marks 271 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: of um marks of a man made cutting instrument like butchery, 272 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: essentially like hacking from the outside that would have been 273 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: so violent. Um, picturing the scene and scraping off of 274 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: the meat, which would have left additional you know, traumas 275 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: too to the bones. Yeah. So according to Ousley, we 276 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: can glean a bit about the situation and context from 277 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: reading the remains here. Osley says that the chops to 278 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: the forehead were tentative and incomplete, which to him indicates 279 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: that there was some hesitance there. But then the body 280 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: was turned over and there were multiple strikes to the 281 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: back of the head, and then there was a wound 282 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: made to the left temple, which was most likely the 283 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: point of these blows was to was to open the 284 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: skull and retrieve the brain for consumption. Yeah. Um, And 285 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: this is something that's still a topic of pretty hot 286 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: debate among historians. Osley told the Smithsonian Uh that given 287 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: that these bones were found in a trash pit um 288 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: all cut and chopped up, he says, to quote him, 289 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: it's clear that this body was dismembered for consumption. So 290 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: while everything isn't known about what would have gone into 291 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: this process, it's a lot of kind of post mortem 292 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: reverse engineering detective work. Um, we don't know who the 293 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: girl was exactly. They're calling her Jane Um. Also not 294 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: sure whether she was murdered. Again, my my thought is 295 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: maybe some of these folks might have been sickly and 296 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: dying and they just got that blow to the back 297 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: of the head to take them out, or possibly she 298 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: could have died of natural causes. Whether there this is 299 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: an individual acting alone who would have done this butchery, 300 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: or whether it was something that was a little more organized, 301 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: that's not clear either, right, because it goes back to uh, 302 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: social dynamics when we're talking about survival cannibalism. You know, 303 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 1: this debate continues. We know, however, that the attacks on 304 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: the skull were almost certainly meant just to be a 305 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: way of accessing the brain or the flesh for consumption. 306 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily murder just for murder's sake, because at 307 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: the time, brain matter from other animals was considered a delicacy, 308 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: and that's why the settlers may have gone straight forward 309 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: this poor child's head. And one thing that is hopefully 310 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: reassuring maybe a bit of a cold comfort, is that 311 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: we know with a good degree of certitude that the 312 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: child was dead before they started conducting cannibalism, because there 313 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: were no indications of a struggle, you know what I mean, 314 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: no wounds uh to her body that would show she 315 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: was defending herself. They also, however, know that whoever was 316 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: doing this, uh, this was probably their first rodeo, they 317 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: did not appear to be experienced in any kind of 318 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: butchering or dressing of an animal. Uh. And like you said, no, 319 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: it's it's clear that this body was destroyed for one thing. 320 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: But we don't know very much about this victim. We 321 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: know that we're calling this person Jane, but we don't 322 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: know very much about Jane. We can hypothesize a bit. 323 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: We're theorized when we ask ourselves what series of terrible 324 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: events could have led to this grizzly fate. So, as 325 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: we said, in sixteen o nine, there was a second 326 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: fleet of ships leaving Plymouth. They had reinforcements. Seven of 327 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: the nine ships survived the hurricane landed Jamestown in mid August. 328 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: They had those three under colonists. They had lost their 329 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: biggest supply ships. They believe that this child had arrived 330 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: on one of those seven surviving ships. And it looks 331 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: like we should pause here. You know that's right, folks, 332 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: this is a two parter. Yeah. I mean, look, you know, 333 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: say what you will about two parts and that they're 334 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: an afterthought. That's not entirely true. It might be a 335 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: little bit true, but you know what, it helps us sects. 336 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: We do two a week and it's the holiday time, 337 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: and it said, well, you know, I can't speak for 338 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: anyone but myself. It doesn't to me. It feels more 339 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: like an opportunity for us to go longer because we 340 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: get to this point where we want to tell the 341 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: whole story. We want to give you more facts, more context, 342 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: want to dive in. But sometimes it's too much for 343 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: one episode, you know. So I so we hope that 344 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: you enjoy part one. Please tune in to part two. 345 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: Please please please tune into part two. We promise that 346 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: we have a nice ending at the end. I know, 347 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: I know this one is really getting a little dark, 348 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: but it does. There is there is a bit of 349 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: a silver lining coming up for you. Um. You can 350 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: join the conversation about this part and subsequent parts in 351 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: any other part or episode that we do on Ridiculous 352 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: History and our Facebook group Ridiculous Historians, where you can 353 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: post memes. Real good group of folks there to engage with. 354 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: We pop on there pretty regularly and even young Quizzles himself, 355 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, the quister uh is a bit of a 356 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: lurker there, and he might even insult you if you 357 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: if you want him to, or if you don't. You know, 358 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: he's a hot take Strickland, as we called. You can 359 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: also find your roll as individuals on Instagram. I'm also 360 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: on Twitter Instagram Appen Bullen on Twitter at ben bullin 361 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: hs W. You can find me exclusively on Instagram at 362 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: how Now Nolan Brown. Big thanks to Alex Williams who 363 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: composed our theme, Gabe Louisier, our fabulous research associate, Christopher 364 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: Hasciots Here in spirit, Jonathan Strickland, that devious quister um 365 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: also here in spirit sort of in the form of 366 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: like a weird, funky miasma that is sort of fills 367 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: up the corners of the podcast shipping containing I mean Jonathan, yeah, 368 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, the Quister of course. Big thanks too, 369 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Begram, Thanks to Eve's Jeff Code, and 370 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: thanks to all of the fantastic, hard working researchers who 371 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: are helping us learn more about what actually happened in 372 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: this wide old world before we arrived. I'll see you 373 00:25:49,440 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: next time. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit 374 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 375 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.