1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh and 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: there's Chucked Cherry's here too, and for Days and this 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: is short stuff one that ties into a recent episode 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: of ours raw. 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: That's right, thanks to the following inside Fullerton website, National 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: Museum of American History KCR dot com dot edu, and 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: a website called viet Salon. And if you're like that's 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: a funny sounding name, it's not, because we're talking about 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: the interesting fact that Vietnamese, American and Vietnamese women generally 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: populate the manicure nail professional system like no other group 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: in the United States. 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's one of those things that you just 13 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: know that in the United States, even if you don't 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: get your nails done, you just kind of know Vietnamese 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: people tend to be the ones that run and own 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: nail salons. But it's one of those things that you 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: probably have never stopped to ask why. And this is 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: one of those great stories where there's actually a specific answer, 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: a specific date, specific people involved that answer that question why, 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: Like there's an answer to it, not just well that's 21 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: just how it turned out. 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I do have a stat for you here. 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: The Bureau of labor statistics, and this is in California, 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: but this is also true in a lot of the country. 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: But they have the number at eighty two percent of 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: nail salons in California are staffed by Vietnamese people, generally 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: Vietnamese women, but some men are doing that thing too, 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: And it goes all the way back to nineteen seventy five. 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: After the Vietnam War ended, Vietnamese immigration happened in a 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: big way, and I think by the year two thousand 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: there were a million Vietnamese immigrants had settled in the 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: United States. 33 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Yes, and not all billion, obviously we're working the nail industry, 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: but enough of them did that. The Vietnamese immigrants and 35 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,399 Speaker 1: Vietnamese Americans who came to start, I guess essentially dominating 36 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: the nail salon industry transformed it from something pretty small 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: and niche into I think an eight billion dollar global 38 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: industry in just a few decades. 39 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: You know, before the nineteen seventies, if you got a 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: manicure or a pedicure, you were probably some wealthy woman 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: who you know, was doing it as like a luxury service. 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: It wasn't, you know, as routine as it is today, 44 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: And the fact that it got routine was for a 45 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: few reasons. One was the electric file was invented in 46 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four, and then acrylic nails came along in 47 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, and that just sort of democratized the 48 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: whole thing. It made a lot cheaper to do and 49 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: therefore have done for you. 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but even still, we haven't gotten to the reason 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: why so many Vietnamese people have taken over the nail 52 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: industry and turned it into what it is. For one thing, though, 53 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: like the reason that it became like primed for that 54 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: to happen is that these nail techts realized, like, you 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: don't actually have to be like conversant in English, let 56 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: alone fluent. You just have to know a few words, 57 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: and you can not only work in a nail slun 58 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: you could pretty much open and own your own like this. 59 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: It was a ready made way for recently arrived immigrants 60 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: whose lives have been devastated by the Vietnam War to 61 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: basically start over again and build like a life and 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: a nest egg for themselves. 63 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 64 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: So you know, we mentioned the here was nineteen seventy five, 65 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: and the place was something called Hope Village, which was 66 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: in Wymar, California, and it was the first non military, 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: non military refugee camp in the United States. And in 68 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five there were about twenty Vietnamese women that 69 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: were there in Hope Village and at one point actress 70 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: Tippy Hedron, who was the starbar and the Star of 71 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: Alfred Hitchcock's. 72 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: The Birds, came through. 73 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: She was doing a lot of humanitarian work at the 74 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: time and went to visit Hope Village and during the 75 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: visit she noticed that these women were kind of gaga 76 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: over her manicured nails, and she had one of those 77 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: light bulb moments where she's like, wait a minute, I 78 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: bet I can teach these women and empower them to 79 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: do this and become business owners here in the United States. 80 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: And she reached up over her head and went on 81 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: the light bulb with her nail and she said, I 82 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: got a great idea. Everybody. So she, having being a sta, 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: got her nails done quite a bit. She went to 84 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: a place called the Nail Patch. Sounds a little hippie 85 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: to me, but apparently it was a high end nail salon, 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: like the first nails only salon because at the time 87 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: there was no place to just go get your nails done. 88 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: It was something you did at a larger salon. But 89 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: Dusty Boots but Terra founded the Nail Patch and Thencino, California, 90 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: which is the setting for the movie, and Sino Man 91 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: and Tippy Hedron said, Hey, Dusty, do you want to 92 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: come teach these women and Hope Village how to do 93 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: some nail stuff because they're crazy about my manicure, So 94 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: you want to just have a lark and come come 95 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: show them what to do in Dusty six. 96 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, She's like, I'm Dusty Boots but Terra. The 97 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: answer is always yes. So Dusty Boots went up. Their 98 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: first training session went really well, and so Tippy Hedron 99 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: flew her up basically every weekend over a few months, 100 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: you know, while she was still running that nail Patch 101 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: and Encino and just kept teaching them like new techniques 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: and like kind of the all the ins and outs 103 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 2: of the business. 104 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. So there were I think originally twenty women who 105 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: became the first class that Dusty but Terra essentially graduated. 106 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: And this was also just he made to be adapted 107 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: to actual like beauty schools, beauty colleges in particular. The 108 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: first one was Citrus Heights Beauty College, which is well 109 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: known for also being the one that Frenchie dropped out 110 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: from in Greece. And yeah, no, I just made that. 111 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: I just had to give a frenchy shout out, and 112 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: that was the only way I could come up with it. 113 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: I got you, and the owner, Becky Hambleton, was like, hey, 114 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: let's figure out how to create a nail manicure curriculum essentially, 115 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: so we can take anybody who wants to learn, especially 116 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: women from whole village, and train them how to do 117 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: this so they can go create a life for themselves. 118 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: That's right. 119 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: I feel like we should take our little break here, sure, 120 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: and we'll come back and get to As Paul Harvey 121 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: would say the rest of the story right after this, Well. 122 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 4: Now we're on the road driving in your truck. Want 123 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 4: to learn a thing or two from josh Am Chuck. 124 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 4: It's stuff you should know, all right, stop. 125 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 3: All right, So we're back. 126 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: When we left, Tippy Hedron had gotten Dusty Boots Poterra 127 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: on the scene training these women and then partnered with 128 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: Becky Hambleton of Citrus Heights Beauty College to get a 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: real nail curriculum going. The one thing I don't think 130 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: we mentioned, it's kind of cool. If you do a 131 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: little research on this, you'll see a lot of amazing 132 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: photos of all of this happening in real time. And 133 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: that's because Dusty Boots but Terra's husband, Massimo Massimo. Yeah, yeah, 134 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 2: Massimo Butra was a photographer and like went up there 135 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: to this refugee camp and like took lots of like 136 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: awesome pictures of this all taking place. 137 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was pretty well documented. So I think 138 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: the first group of twenty women from Camp Hope underwent 139 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty hours of training. So when they graduated, 140 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: they knew everything there is to know about manicures, pedicures, 141 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: all the cures. And they went out and basically spread 142 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: this knowledge and started training other women essentially just enough 143 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: to hire them. And then, like those women gained on 144 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: the job training, you could also go to beauty colleges 145 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: now to learn it as well. And this seed was 146 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: planted of this massive transition in the nail salon industry. Again, 147 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: like this is really where the idea of nail salons 148 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: kind of came from. Yes, there was the nail patch, 149 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: but the ubiquity of them today they are everywhere. Sometimes 150 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: if the strip mall is big enough, they'll have multiple 151 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: nail salons in there, and like they're just everywhere. All 152 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: of this came from this late seventies transition. 153 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 154 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: And just like any ethnic roop group that moves to 155 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: another country and kind of maybe from the outside weirdly 156 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: becomes dominant over a particular part of you know, business, 157 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: That's how it happens. You know, word goes back to Vietnam, 158 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: like hey, you know you're on to your sister or 159 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: somebody or has gone over to the United States. They're 160 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: making a great living doing nails, so then they come 161 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: over and they get taught, and then it just sort 162 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: of the tendrils sort of spread out from there, right, 163 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: and it became Vietnamese dominated. And one of the reasons 164 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 2: I think Becky Hamilton reference was, Hey, it wasn't just 165 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: us in the curriculum and us teaching them, but she 166 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: was like, they had amazing work ethics and that's why 167 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: they were successful. 168 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. You ever get a pedicure or a manicure, Nah, 169 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: not my thing there, man. You should treat yourself, at 170 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: least treat yourself to a pedicure once and I'll bet 171 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: you do it more than once. 172 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: You told me to do that ten times now, and 173 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: I just don't think it's my thing. 174 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: All right, I'm taking you. Sorry, I'll kidnap you if 175 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: I have to and take you and you're going to like, Josh, 176 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: thanks for this. 177 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't because I don't like people touching my toes. 178 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: It freaks me out. So you would actually be delivering 179 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: kind of a horror experience for me. 180 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: All right, let me think about this then, So Chuck, 181 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: this is not all just necessarily like hip hip hooray 182 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: for nail salons. There's definitely some downsides to it. If 183 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: you really kind of want to make it in America. 184 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: In nail salons, you essentially have to own your own 185 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: and most of the people who work at nail salons 186 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: do not have any kind of ownership stake in them. 187 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 188 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: Actually, sadly, they typically make less even than minimum wage, 189 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: So a lot of nail salon workers are being paid 190 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: an illegally low amount of money. 191 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is you know, even in California they have 192 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: a thirteen dollars an hour minimum wage. This is from 193 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and I think that same year the 194 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: average for a nail salon worker was ten dollars and 195 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: ninety four cents. 196 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 3: So you know how they getting away with that? That's 197 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 3: what I want to know. 198 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: I looked, Basically, someone has to report you, and from 199 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: what I understand, a lot of nail salon workers barely 200 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: speak English in some cases or just don't at all, 201 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: so there's no way for them to report. And then 202 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: secondly they might not know where to start with reporting. 203 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: And then also thirdly, this is their job and they 204 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: depend on this job as little as they're paid, so 205 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: they're probably not going to start causing trouble or rocking 206 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: the boat or whatever. And then the even worse, traditionally 207 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: or typically, when you are reported for this, basically nothing 208 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: happens to you as a business owner, all. 209 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 3: Right, So the TLD are is they're being taken advantage of. 210 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it happens, and certainly it's not all nail salons, 211 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: but it is something that is pretty rampant in that industry. 212 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: And then at all nail salons there's a real health 213 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: risk with respiratory difficulties from all of the chemicals that 214 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: are used in there and just are in the air. 215 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: It's just part of the air and the nail salon. 216 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so tip them big everybody. 217 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: Yes, although they are often forced to split their tips 218 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: with the ownership, which is pretty crummy. 219 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: Well, that's why I get a tip them even bigger. 220 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, what you do. I've learned this from experience. You 221 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: show up with a twenty jam between your big toe 222 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: and your second toe, and when they take your shoe off, 223 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: you just wink at them. They get it, they understand. 224 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 3: Okay, that's all for you. 225 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: Yep, So you got anything else? 226 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 3: I got nothing else. 227 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: Short, Stuff's out, everybody. 228 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 3: Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 229 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 4: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 230 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.