1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Clark with me as always as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: and Jerry's over there to the left, and that makes 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: the Stuff you Should Know got the eighteen. Yeah, in 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: the hissy, I call face what I'm face? Of course 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: your face, look at you. I would be a combination 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: of Murdoch and Mr Tak Yeah. Oh, your hair is 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: kind of spiky in the middle today. Yeah, Jerry, I 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: don't know what she'd be. I guess she'd be the leader. 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: She'd be Hannibal. Oh yeah, you know she's smoking a 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: cigar right now, wearing a black glove. When did you 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: start the sucking cigars? Jerry? That's weird, very timely. I 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: said a team. I don't want to slag off guests 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: produce a knoll. He's not exactly be team. We'll just 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: call ourself the O G S. Okay, now that we 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: have that established, we are the O G S. We 18 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: need bowling shirts that say as much. On the bad 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: you're feeling good, I'm feeling uh nauseous and dizzy. Oh well, Chuck, 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: did you happen to see somebody else who is nauseous 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: and dizzy. Well, Jerry was last week, and then a 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: few more people in the office, so I just figured 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: we all had the same thing. All right, I'm gonna 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: diagnose this, Okay. It's called collective hysteria, also known, I 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: think more appropriately is mass psychogenic disorder. I think when 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: you add the word hysteria to this, it ticks on 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: certain dimensions that a lot of people could find very objectionable. 28 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: You know, hysterics, hysteria. It's like um dogs and cats 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: living together. Yeah, but I think it has it has 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: a definite um gender specific connotation to it from over 31 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: the years, like women were supposedly very hysterical. So the 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: the idea of diagnosing somebody as hysterical under any circumstances, 33 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of it's had him out to panning him, 34 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: patting him on the head. Yeah here, nice lady, you're 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: you're just a little hysterical. Do you just go calm 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: down and bake something right? Stop being crazy? Uh? No. 37 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: Mass psychogenic disorder instead is just kind of like whoa, 38 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: your brain just did something pretty neat. And that is 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: the case for mass psychogenic disorder. If you ask me um. 40 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: In this article Chuck written by Jacob Silverman, Jeopardy Champion. 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: Yeah well yeah, yeah you won on Jeopardy. That makes 42 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: him a champion? Or yeah, I think so. He wasn't 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: like the ultimate Champion, but he won a couple of episodes, right, 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: which is why they should have a word for I 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: guess like the champion is like the one who won 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: at all Ken Jennings, Yeah, or um Watson, who's that 47 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: the IBM computer? Yeah, so Jeopardy winner. Jacob Silverman wrote 48 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: this article years back, and he did a pretty great 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: job of citing a contemporary outbreak of mass psychogenic disorder 50 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: that had been going on around that time down in Mexico, 51 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: down Mexico, way in Chalco, Mexico, at a boarding school. 52 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: There apparently was a girls boarding school and the girls 53 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: that went to school they were just twelve to seventeen, 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they started, well, there was 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: an outbreak, a weird outbreak. There was vomiting, I believe, 56 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: trouble walking. Um, there was fever that's weird, nausea and 57 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: so the the people running this boarding school like, um, 58 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: what's going on? This is not good? Uh? And they 59 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: had no idea. The girls went on Christmas break for 60 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: ten days, came back, and the thing just took off 61 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: again like wildfire. Yeah, six d girls, um showed these 62 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: symptoms and nobody could figure it out. Um. They did 63 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot of tests, they brought in people to like 64 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: check out the facilities, and because as you'll see, there's 65 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: a trend there. Um, you know here in the West, 66 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: they start to blame it, usually on um, like environmental 67 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: poisoning of some kind. Right, Um, you know there's some 68 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: sort of toxins that is poisoned everybody. But they didn't 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: find anything there, and eventually, um, they said, this is uh, 70 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: what do you call it? Psychosomatic mass psychogenic disorder? Okay, 71 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: mass psychogenic disorder, but no, that is one of the 72 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: one of the names that it's mass psychogenic disorder, collective hysteria, 73 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: mass hysteria, or mass psychosomatic reaction. They're all saying the 74 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: same thing they are, which is you're not well. Was 75 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: about so you're not really sick, But that is not 76 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: exactly true, because that's one thing that differentiates this from 77 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: something that's just in your head is you actually do 78 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: manifest physical symptoms. Right. Yeah, there's this article written by 79 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: a m d. Named Timothy F. Jones from the Tennessee 80 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: Department of Health way back in the heavy days of 81 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: two thousand, your two thousand in the future. Um, and 82 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: he writes that you if you are experiencing mass psychogenic disorder, 83 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: it is not just in your head. That the symptoms 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: that you have are actually very real. Even though there's 85 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: no toxic cause that they couldn't find some sort of 86 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: environmental poison or anything like that, the symptoms are extremely real. Yeah, 87 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: it's just psycho somatic. It's just basically the brain has 88 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: been tricked into causing this response. Yeah, and this has happened. Um, 89 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: They've documented about eighty cases throughout history and apparently the 90 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: National Institutes of Health gets about two cases per week reported. 91 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: But um, which is I mean, like that's that's way 92 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: more common than than you would think, you know, yeah, 93 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: I would think there'd be more than eight, because I mean, 94 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: these have happened. If you go back and look at 95 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: I mean, there's all sorts of crazy lists on the 96 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: internet about these cases that date back to like the 97 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: fourteenth century. Medieval dancing mania was one of them. Yeah, 98 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: the dancing plague. Yeah, yeah, that's in there. The Salem 99 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: Witchcraft trials or the Salem witchcraft I guess what led 100 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: to the trials was UM supposedly attributed to this kind 101 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: of thing. Uh. One weird thing about this condition is 102 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: more times than not, it is affects females, Yeah, and 103 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: young females even more specifically teenagers or even younger, which 104 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: is as far as it goes right now, inexplicable UM. 105 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: And it's kind of a prickly issue, you know, like 106 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: again you kind of come back to the idea of 107 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: calling it hysteria. You know, the fact that it does 108 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: tend to afflict women or girls more than them boys. 109 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: UM is apparently one means of diagnosing psychogenic disordered mass psychogogical. 110 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: That's like one of the first things we'll say is like, 111 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: all this the sickness is happening in this place, the 112 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: school wherever, and the doctor will say, is it a 113 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,039 Speaker 1: bunch of girls? And then that will clue them in 114 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: that hey, this might be what we're dealing with here. 115 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: And but the problem is no one has any idea why, 116 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: and there have been explanations of things like um, Uh, 117 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: I guess girls, this is this is girls culturally acceptable 118 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: outlet for raging against the patriarchy. Sure, even if they 119 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: don't necessarily feel that that's what they're doing. This is 120 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: there there, Uh, this is the symptoms of that. That's one. Yeah, 121 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: I thought this was a pretty interesting part. What article 122 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: was that from Slate? Uh? There was uh yeah, one 123 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: called mass Asteria and Upstate New York by Ruth Graham 124 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: was on Slate. That was a good one. It was 125 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: a really good one. And we'll get to that case 126 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: in a sect. But um, I thought it was pretty interesting. 127 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: In one part, it says, um, and this is a 128 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: quote from someone writing about something and said inform, if 129 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: not unconscious intent, it is to protest the sexual repressiveness, 130 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: rigid double standard of female team culture. Um. But they 131 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: were writing about Beatlemania, Yeah, which is interesting because it's 132 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: sort of has a similar vibe of uh, young ladies 133 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: being repressed, um, not having an outlet, and so they 134 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: see the Beatles and they go berserk and faint and 135 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: cry and scream collectively. Whereas boys they're more prone to 136 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: just act out if they're not feeling good. Girls are 137 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: trained to keep things inward. And they also point out 138 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: that ladies and young ladies are more prone to seek 139 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: a doctor's help for something. Uh, they say that may 140 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: account for the bias right there, like guys just won't 141 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: go to the doctor exactly. You have to be careful though, 142 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: and in just diagnosing MATHS psychogenital disorder, you physicians out 143 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: there who are listening to encounter a case like this 144 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: UM it just by basing it on the fact that 145 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: it is affecting more girls than boys. Because there's at 146 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: least one case in Great Britain where I think girls 147 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: were afflicted by more than half more than double the 148 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: number of girls were afflicted by this, and it turned 149 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: out that they were retaining cucumbers being served in the 150 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: lunch room. Yeah, and everyone knows boys hate cucumbers, and 151 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: so I mean they didn't need anyone, right. But this 152 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: is one of the issues with dealing with UM MATHS 153 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: psychogenic disorder, and that it looks and acts a lot 154 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: like some sort of weird epidemic. That basically it looks 155 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: like either a UM something like bioterrorism, uh, rapidly spreading 156 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: affection infection or affection if lemania and then acute toxic exposure. 157 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: That's what it looks like. It's like one person gets sick. 158 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: This is your index case and all of a sudden, 159 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: everyone around them suddenly has the same symptoms. Yeah, and 160 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: it's like you said, it's super dangerous to just dismiss 161 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: that as oh it's all in your head, silly little ladies. 162 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: You can't do that because what if it is something 163 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: for real? But it's also a double edged sword, is 164 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: that doctor pointed out, Um, you start ordering batteries of 165 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: tests and it it It can go both ways. It 166 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: can Um. What the old saying is, if you order 167 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: enough tests, you're gonna find something, so it can fuel 168 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: that fire. But you also can't not run any tests 169 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: and just dismiss it. Uh. So it's a very fine 170 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: line that physicians walk when dealing with stuff like this, 171 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: for sure. Indeed, apparently UM study of mass psychogenic disorder 172 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: has found that it's more prevalent in isolated communities and 173 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: in situations where um, they are highly rigid, formalized, structured rules, 174 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: like a Catholic school in Mexico exactly, um or again 175 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: um Salem, Massachusetts in the seventeenth century, you know. Um. 176 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: And apparently, between nineteen seventy three and half of all 177 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: the outbreaks of psychogenetic or psychogenic illness took place in schools, 178 00:10:55,040 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: so that that's possibly in part by due to kids 179 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: being susceptible to it more um, but also because of 180 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: that that rigid, formalized structure. Yeah. And there's also usually 181 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: a top down effect, like it'll start with a teacher 182 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: or an older student, and then the younger students follow suit, 183 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: which if you're talking influence, would make sense for sure. 184 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: There was one very famous case. Um. Apparently there's not 185 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: very many actual academic studies on this, but there's one 186 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: that came out of the New England Journal of Medicine 187 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: UM that that described a case in Tennessee where a 188 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: teacher noticed, um, some weird gas odor, a gassy odor, uh, 189 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: like the chemical kind. Yeah, not like the guy on 190 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: the front road to right exactly, um, and she apparently 191 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: started suffering symptoms uh, And all of a sudden, like 192 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighties students and teachers had to go 193 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: to the emergency room. The school was shut down for 194 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: two weeks. They did all this environmental testing, couldn't find anything, 195 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: and finally traced it back to UM psychogenic a mass 196 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: psychogenic disorder, if that's what it didn't and then everyone 197 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: In most of these cases we should point out everyone 198 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: it starts feeling better. Yes, like in Mexico and then 199 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: the school in Tennessee. It's it's not like they went 200 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: on to die or anything. Yeah. So in the school 201 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: in Mexico, the these girls were at a boarding school. 202 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: They were only allowed to see their parents, I think 203 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: like three times a year. Yeah, they couldn't even call. 204 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: It's like it sounds more like a prison. They were 205 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: allowed letters when they went home. Immediately their symptoms cleared up. 206 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: The problem is that doesn't automatically say oh, well, it's 207 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: obviously mass psychogenic distorder. It could be an environmental toxin 208 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: that they were being exposed to still uh at the 209 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: school and we're removed from But I think the the 210 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: definite problem osis is mass psychogenic disorder in this case. 211 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: That's right. What we're talking about is a sort of 212 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: version of the no Seebo effect, which we've talked about before, 213 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: and we will get into that right up to this break. 214 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: So the no cebo effect, we talked about that, and 215 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: what the placebo effect. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, I 216 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: was trying to be more clever. I thought we were 217 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,599 Speaker 1: more clever than that. Uh no cebo. I think we 218 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: said in that other podcast he was Latin for eyeshall harm. 219 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: And that's basically whereas you take a placebo thinking it's 220 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: gonna help you out, and it does help you out 221 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: because the mind is powerful. The no cebo effect is 222 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: thinking something bad will result, like my teachers getting sick. 223 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: I think I feel a little sick too, and then oh, hey, 224 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: my neighbor is feeling a little sick. I think I'm 225 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: feeling a little sick too. Or this this drug trial 226 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: that I'm on, I was told that I could possibly 227 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: get some sort of gastro intestin old distress. Yeah, and 228 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: even I've been given a sugar pill. I'm now going 229 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 1: yeah because in my mind because of the Noebo effect. 230 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: There was a famous experiment or case from eight six 231 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: where there was a woman who had a rose allergy 232 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: and they showed her an artificial rose and she began 233 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: to I guess it was convincing, and she began to 234 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: have her allergic reaction and they said, ah, ha, it's 235 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: fake and you're faking, and uh she said, oh, well, 236 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: I think I'm feeling better now, and supposedly that cured 237 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: or of her real allergy to real roses. I couldn't 238 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: find a lot to back that up. But is it 239 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: it is a story. Yeah, well no, that's a I 240 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: mean it was in I can't remember the journal, but 241 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: it was really well yeah, it was a real deal thing. 242 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: And um, I don't I didn't get to the bottom 243 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: of why they presented this woman with a fake rose 244 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,239 Speaker 1: or whatever, but they definitely didn't. This definitely happened. And um, 245 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: the even the author of the study was saying, like 246 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: this woman, she wasn't faking. It was like she she 247 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: had real symptoms hives or hives exactly. I can see those. Um. 248 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: I think they call it like a rose cold or 249 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: something like that. You can get you know, stuffy, your 250 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: eyes are watering, your your nose is running, that kind 251 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: of thing. And what's interesting is some researchers have studied 252 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: the no sebo effect and they basically have isolated this 253 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: this chemical that gets released when the no cebo effects 254 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: going on. And again we should say it's not just 255 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: um making your nose running or releasing histamines or anything 256 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: like that is pain too, Like you can you can 257 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: experience pain even though nothing's there to give you pain, 258 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: just because of the noebo effect. What they found was 259 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: a um A, I guess, uh hormone, I believe. Are 260 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: you ready? I'm gonna try this one? Uh, coli cisto kinon. 261 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: That sounds great, thanks man. I haven't looked at the word, 262 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: but it sounds right. Coli cisto kinon. Um. Do you 263 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: see it now? That's totally right. I totally did. So. 264 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: It's a hormone, right, and it gets released and it actually, um, 265 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: it helps you experience pain. So it's a nasty little hormone. 266 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: But they found in testing with the no cebo effect 267 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: that if you block this, you can also block the 268 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: no cebo effect. So that proves two things. Does that 269 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: block pain though, like your pain receptors? So does that 270 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: mean if you slam your pand in the door you 271 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: won't feel it if you can block this? Yes? So um, 272 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: if you can block coli cisto canon, yes, it will 273 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: keep you from um hypersensitivity to pain. I believe. And 274 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: this guy named Fabrizio Benedetti I think was also in 275 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: the Strokes back. He uh, he was testing out the 276 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: nocebo effect and found that if he told people that 277 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: he was giving them an injection, which is it's a 278 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: pretty cruel test. But effective. These post stop people who 279 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: had just come out of surgery. Uh, We're given an 280 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: injection and told this injection is going to increase your 281 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: pain in thirty minutes. I'm sorry, we have to give 282 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: it to it's part of the procedure. He gave some 283 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: people an injection of saline and they reported an increase 284 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: in pain, and they all went behind the two way 285 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: mirror and laughed right there like yeah. And then they 286 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: gave somebody, like the other group, the control group, uh, 287 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: a chemical an injection that blocks that pain. But they 288 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: were told that it was going to increase their pain. 289 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: But they were given a chemical that blocks uh cola 290 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: sister kinon and the effect didn't take place. They didn't 291 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: report an increase in pain even though they were told 292 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: they would. Yes, so they So this guy is saying, 293 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: like the no cebo effect is real. Like when when 294 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: they say it's not just in your head, it's you're 295 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: experiencing the same thing as if you were experiencing somebody's 296 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: stabbing you. You know, that's when you have to start 297 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: asking yourself those deep philosophical questions. Interesting, Um, there's another 298 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: case that's have you ever seen the movie Safe The 299 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: Todd Haynes movie with Julianne Moore. No, it's from like 300 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: the mid nineties, and she played a lady that um 301 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: started to have environmental sickness. UM just in the air, 302 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: and she's got sort of like increasingly UM crazy as 303 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: the movie went on, as far as scrubbing things and 304 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: locking herself in her house and making her house a 305 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: clean environment. It was good and UM there's there's a 306 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: true story though of a lady in London, UM named 307 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: Debbie Bird. She's a health spot manager that says that 308 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: she's allergic to e m F electromagnetic fields. And it's 309 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: an actual thing now you know, there's more than her claiming. 310 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: It's called e S electro magnetic sensitivity. Where she has 311 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: basically transformed her house. She painted it black. She said 312 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: she's allergic to computers, cell phones, microwaves. She had her 313 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: house rewired, uh to make it basically e m F free. Uh. 314 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: She and her husband's sleep under a silver plated mosquito 315 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: net to keep out radio waves and covered all her 316 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: windows with protective films. And she said she feel a 317 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: lot better now. So I saw that, yes, electromagnetic sensitivity 318 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: that if you expose somebody to a an electromagnetic field 319 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: and then just tell them that you are, and don't 320 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: they have the same reaction, which would suggest that it's 321 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: it's no c bow. Well, it's super fascinating because you 322 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: see cases like this from that to like gluten sensitivity 323 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: becoming a big thing now and people some people contend that, well, 324 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: it's maybe a collective hysteria going on. If you think 325 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: you're going to be sensitive to gluten, then you're gonna 326 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: be sensitive to things that contain gluten. And I'm not 327 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: saying that people because that's a very hot topic it is, 328 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: but um, some people have claimed that, well, we'll talk 329 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: a little bit more about things that exacerbate the mass 330 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: psychogenic disorder and the no cebo effect right after this, 331 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: so chuck back in two thousand seven, in New Zealand, 332 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: UH a drug called el trokes in. It was a 333 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: pretty widespread drug in New Zealand. It's a hormone replacement 334 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: drug and it was the only one that the government 335 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: would pay for. So most people who were on this 336 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: hormone replacement therapy, we're using l trokes in. And it 337 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: had been that way for like decades. It was just 338 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: an established trug Glaxo Smith client hormone replacement Glaxo Smith Klein. 339 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: I think just those there's no welcome involved. UM changed, 340 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 1: just the like the outer the inert qualities of it, 341 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: like the shape of the pill, the color um, and 342 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: I think that's about it. But the the active ingredient 343 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: was exactly the same in two thousand seven. Uh. And 344 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: when they released it, all of a sudden, some reports 345 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: of bad side effects were starting to trickle in, and 346 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: the government was like, wait, what's going on here. It 347 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: got a little bit of media attention and more reports 348 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: started trickling in, and then the media attention grew, and 349 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: the reports grew and grew, and apparently the reporting of 350 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: adverse effects of el trucks in increased two thousandfold in 351 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: a year and a half because of the look of 352 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: the bill, because of the look of the pill. They 353 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: went back and studied this and they found that in 354 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: areas where there was more reporting about these adverse effects 355 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: being reported for all trucks in the more adverse effects 356 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: were being reported in that area. And that kind of 357 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: reveals one of the um risk factors for mass psychogenic 358 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: disorder is the media. It's actually spread through the media. 359 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: Most easily. Yeah, they have a point though, I mean, um, 360 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: I know. In this article too, it points out that 361 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: pills that are blue and green are usually associated with drowsiness, 362 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: pills that are orange or yellow are not. And I 363 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: don't know if that's why they market it that way 364 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: or if it's the opposite, as we just see it 365 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: that way because of products like niquil and day quill. 366 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: But the one that makes you sleepy is green and blue, 367 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: and the one that keeps you awake or keep you 368 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: awake but doesn't make you drowsy orange. I thought about it. 369 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, what do you associate with like 370 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: daytime sunrise? Yellow? Orange? What do you associate with night time? 371 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: Like something tranquil like blue? Yeah, Scotch scotch amber. Uh yeah, 372 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: I mean you think of That's what I think it 373 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: came from. I think the pills came after the association 374 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: rather than the other way around. Yeah, I think I even, 375 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: like when I get a prescription for something, when I 376 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: see the pill, I make a judgment on it before 377 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: I've even had it, just by saying, well, don't look 378 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: at that thing that Yeah, that's a horse pill or 379 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: that's a capsule with you know, powdery stuff inside that's 380 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: different than the chalky one. It's you. I think you 381 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: just make an association. I don't think I have any 382 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: preconceived notions on what a larger pill will do to 383 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 1: me or a capsule will do to me other than 384 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: a tablet. But I think it's interesting, though, how you 385 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: make these judgment calls but without even thinking about totally. 386 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, like you're you're you probably don't 387 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: sit there and look at a pill in your hand. 388 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: You just take it and just make some sort of um, 389 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: almost unconscious judgments about it. Yeah, it may remind you 390 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: another pill that helps you that you're not even remembering exactly, 391 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: so that would be placebo. Yeah that's great effect, not great, No, 392 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: and it pusses a lot of problems. For instance, there 393 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: was a study I think in the nineties that found 394 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: that women who believed that they were prone to heart 395 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: disease were four times likelier to die of heart disease 396 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: than women who didn't believe they are prone to it, 397 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: even though they had all the exact same risk factors, 398 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: basically the same risk risk factors. There was nothing differentiating 399 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: these women aside from a belief that they were going 400 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,719 Speaker 1: to die from heart disease or a belief that they weren't, 401 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: and that led to a four time fourfold increase in 402 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: deaths from that just basically from a belief, is what 403 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: it suggests. Yeah, we well, it's sort of like the 404 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: I know it's kind of cheesy, but the p M 405 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: A the positive mental attitude. I think we've all know 406 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: someone who walks around so and so sick. Oh, I 407 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: know I'm gonna get it. I just know I'm gonna 408 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: get sick, or you know, I just know I'm gonna 409 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: get cancer because it runs in my family. That I 410 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: think that has an effect on things. I have to agree. 411 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: I know some of our more skeptical listeners will are 412 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: pulling their hair out right now, but I totally agree 413 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: with you. When we did our show in Toronto, on 414 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: the way back, you me and I flow out of 415 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: Buffalo and I was feeling a little down, but like 416 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: at the point where I feel like you can talk 417 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: yourself into staying healthy. Positive mental attitude. I guess that's 418 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: what you call it. But we were leaving right at 419 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: about dusk and the sun was just beaming through the 420 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: windows and illuminating every single microbe visible microbe in the air. 421 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: I could see them like just going into my nose 422 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: in my mouth, and I'm like, I couldn't stop, Like 423 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: I couldn't. I was like, I'm not gonna get sick. 424 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get sick. And man, did I ever 425 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: get sick. But I noticed that right when we took off, 426 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: and no, you know what it was. Somebody shut one 427 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: of their um their window covers shade exactly is the 428 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: word that I was looking for. Somebody shut their shade 429 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: and I couldn't see anymore, and I immediately started to 430 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: feel less symptomatic. Immediately. It was like turning off a light. 431 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: And I still got sick, but I was just drowning. 432 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: And basically what my brain was interpreting is like being 433 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: assaulted by foreign invaders, which I am all the time, 434 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: but I normally can't see them. Yeah, well I've done 435 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: I do that all the time. When I opened my 436 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: uh the curtains in the bedroom and I'll see you 437 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: in the morning, I'll see that stuff in the air, 438 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking, oh, man, that's what I'm walking 439 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: around breathing in everything dog hair and cat hair and 440 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: Emily hair. So your lungs are just chocked full of it. 441 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: So one of the one of the problems this poses 442 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: chuck for physicians is that we expect doctors, or we 443 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: want doctors to be transparent, to not lie to us. Yeah, 444 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: we talked a lot about this lately. I feel like, yeah, 445 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about diseases. Some of our um 446 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: hypochondria listeners have been like, police, stop that talking about 447 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: diseason because now I've got more orgal on, I'm gonna 448 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: have like some sort of toxic exposure um and then 449 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: very soon leprosy spoiler. So, uh, the problem is if 450 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: you tell somebody that's going into surgery, hey, by the way, um, 451 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: you know you you might have trouble walking, you might 452 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: feel nauseous for the next six months, you like, all 453 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: this stuff that could be associated with which we demand 454 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: from our doctors. It's been shown that if you are 455 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: fearful or in despair going into surgery, that's associated with 456 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: longer healing times and a higher risk of post operative infection. Right, 457 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: So if you have the no cebo effect where doctors 458 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 1: are saying, okay, if I tell somebody, and it's been 459 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: proven time after time that in drug trials, people who 460 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: are still are given placebo will drop out of drug 461 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: trials because they're experiencing these negative side effects even though 462 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: they're given the sugar pill. So if you're a doctor 463 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: and you you know that you are telling somebody something 464 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: that ultimately may end up harming them, and you've sworn 465 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: an oath to do no harm, you've got a conundrum 466 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: going on right now. And that's what the no cebo 467 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: effect poses. It's the problem the no cebo effect poses 468 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: for modern physicians, like how much should they tell you 469 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: if you're gonna tell somebody that they're gonna feel nauseous 470 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: for six months even though they probably won't, should you 471 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: tell them and give them a chance to to basically 472 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: have the psychosomatic symptom, or tell them they're going to 473 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: feel great. Well, that's another one. Somebody says the solution 474 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: to this is just frame it differently, Like, don't say 475 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: there's a chance you're gonna have um nausea for six months. 476 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: Say half of a percent of patients who go through 477 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: the same procedure that you're about to go through have 478 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: nausea for six months five percent. Don't you're giving them 479 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: the same information. It's just framework positively, Yeah, and uh 480 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: that one doctor who wrote the article on collective hysteria said, Um, 481 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: what he recommends is not naming the illness, said that 482 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: can help out. Um, because as soon as you give 483 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: something a name, then it just instantly you know you 484 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: have something you can call it, and everyone's calling it that, 485 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: or the media picks up on it and it's a thing. Yeah, 486 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: And that's actually again one of the one of the 487 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: risk factors in the spread of mass psychogenic illness is 488 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: the larger the response, the emergency medical response to it, 489 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: and then hence the larger the media response to it, 490 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: the larger the outbreak tends to be. It's called line 491 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: of sight exposure. Just knowing somebody is sick or seeing 492 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: somebody sick can give you the same symptoms. I'm sure 493 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: if you see a news story that all the other 494 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: news agencies are running that says, uh, there's been some 495 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: weird chemical leak in the air in Atlanta. Uh, people 496 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: are gonna start walking around and coughing and saying, I'm 497 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: not feeling so good. I have a bitter taste in 498 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: my mouth. There's microbes everywhere. Well, here's a case from 499 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: that article you sent that I think is super fascinating 500 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: the one in upstate New York because it is not 501 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: a rash or um a call for nausea, It is 502 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: Tourette syndrome. Uh. Sixteen year old UM, young lady named 503 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: Laurie Brounwell, Uh what year was this? A couple of 504 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: years ago? Yeah, not too long ago, I think um 505 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: and Corinth, New York. Um was at her school's homecoming 506 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: dance and lost consciousness. Um, this is after she banged 507 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: at a concert. Sorry, man, I thought, yeah, she was 508 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: head banging at a concert. I wish I knew a 509 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: concert that was so me too. I didn't find it anywhere. 510 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: Apparently passed out there and had passing outfits. Uh, involuntary 511 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: twitching and clapping, started twisting her hair, fluttering her fingers, Hey, hey, hey, 512 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: starting stuff like that, and the doctor said, you know 513 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: what You've got, Turette syndrome. So Tourette's syndrome is is. 514 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: We've had a podcast on It's real and it's not psychosomatic. Um. 515 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: But uh, since that time, fourteen other students along with her, 516 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: thirteen girls and one boy started exhibiting at Leroy Junior 517 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: High School. I'm sorry, Junior Senior High School. Started coming 518 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: down with threats, right, which is not contagious, and it 519 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: is not contagious at all. Um. Aaron Brockovitch got on 520 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,239 Speaker 1: the case, um, famous environmental activists, and she said, now, 521 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: I think this has got to do with this train 522 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: derailment from nineteen seventy that dumped cyanide all over this town. Um, 523 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: and I didn't see where they found any uh legitimate effects. Right. Again, 524 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: that's the confounding thing about mass psychogenetic disorders, that it 525 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: is still possible that there is some weird toxin in 526 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: the environment that is causing this. Like maybe there was 527 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: exposure to cyanide that gotten these people's brains and all 528 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: gave them to it. And if you stand back and 529 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: look at it, you're like, to Turette syndrome isn't contagious. 530 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that you can't all come down with 531 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: Thurette syndrome from exposure to a toxin. It's just still 532 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: it's this X factor that's out there that you can't 533 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: just necessarily rule out. Yeah, and I believe in that 534 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: case too, the UM those fourteen students didn't end up 535 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: with Thurette syndrome. That was a good episode Man, I 536 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: love Turette syndrome one. Yeah, it's an oldie, oldie, but 537 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: a goody and it all came from head banging. That's 538 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: how it started at a Nickelback show. Yeah, because Corinth 539 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: is near Canada. Canada isn't let nickel Back out any longer? 540 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: Are they caged in there? Nice? Uh? There's another case 541 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: of the Toxic Lady. Did you hear this one? In Riverside, California, 542 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: woman named Gloria Ramirez. Um. Yeah, she was dubbed the 543 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: toxic Lady in n She had cervical cancer and was 544 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: being treated and all the medical staff started to get 545 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: sick that was treating her. Um. This sounds gross, but 546 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: they say her body exuded a garlicky fruity smell and 547 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: her blood had flecks of what looked like paper um, 548 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: which sounds called Morglon's actually nice, you like that um. 549 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: And they said that most of the people that got 550 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: sick while treating her were women, more women than men, 551 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: and they all took blood test and came back normal 552 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: and the health department said mass hysteria. So that's funny. 553 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: Because I looked, I remembered that story and I was like, 554 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: I wonder if that was mass hysteria, and I looked 555 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: it up and I found that No, it was an 556 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: environmental toxic O it was. That's what I found. So 557 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: they called it mass hysteria the time, and then later 558 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: found out, I think like a year or two later, 559 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: she was using some sort of salve or something on 560 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 1: her skin and they think that in interactive with her 561 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: biochemistry and really did produce toxic toxic gas. She said 562 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: it maybe this fruit garlic salv exactly. That's interacting badly 563 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: with my pancreas. Oh well, uh, this list needs to 564 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: be updated. That that That is a fascinating in case 565 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: people got really sick from that. I think I remember 566 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: hearing about that too. Yeah. Well, I'm glad they found 567 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: a real cause in that case from what I understand. 568 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: But that's that's that's the point. Like you can say, well, 569 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: obviously there's women were more affective than men, right, Well, 570 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: is that because there's more women in the nursing profession 571 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: and there were more nurses in the room. There's a 572 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: lot of different things you have to take into account 573 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: before you just write it off. Sometimes it is reel 574 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: like sick building syndrome. Yeah, that's a tough one because 575 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: after the Opeque oil embargo, apparently people started designing buildings 576 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: to be more air tight, so your ventilation ventilation system 577 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: was really important, and these buildings have an age necessarily 578 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: very well, so the ventilation system is not doing what 579 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: it's supposed to any longer, and so they think possibly 580 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: that's leading to what we know as sick building syndrome, 581 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: which is malaise when you don't feel good when you 582 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: go to work. But some studies have found like, no, 583 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: that is the better predictor of sick building syndrome is 584 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: job stress or job dissatisfaction. Um, if you have a 585 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: building full of people who don't like their jobs, you're 586 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: gonna have a building full of people with sick building syndrome. 587 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: But if you go on to say like a local 588 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: government's website or whatever, and you look at sick building syndrome, 589 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: it's a it's treated as a real thing. Yeah, well, 590 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: it definitely affects your gastro intestinal like stress does. We 591 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: also apparently you can set off bouts of asthma um, 592 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: which is another reason why they think you might have 593 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: something to do with like volatile organic compounds in the 594 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: ventilation system or new carpeting, that kind of stuff offcasting. Man, 595 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: you you smell that stuff when you open up a 596 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: new product. Right. There's also the dancing plague, which we 597 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: mentioned briefly. Tell me about it. Uh, Fraul Trophia July 598 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: fourteen eighteen, went out on the streets of Strasbourg, France 599 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: and started dancing even though there was no music, and 600 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: dancing like a maniac for three straight days, and all 601 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: these people started dancing with her, saying this is a 602 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: good time. Um said, within a month, a hundred people 603 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: were dancing with her and couldn't stop and hyperventilating, hallucinating. 604 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: Some drop dead of heart attack and stroke and exhaustion. 605 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: And the authority said, let's just hire a band and 606 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: let him dance it out, because they've got the hot blood, 607 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: is what they called it. And so they did, and UM, 608 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people died as a result, and it 609 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: said four hundred people in the end were struck. Uh. 610 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: I don't think they died, but we're dancers. And then 611 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: it just stopped. And that's when they blame a lot 612 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: of people blame on ergot poisoning, which we've mentioned before. 613 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: Got poisoning. Those people were clearly tripping on something, they 614 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: got the hot blood. But what it sounds like you 615 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: just described is basically how Tom Hanks invented jogging in 616 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: the seventies. Yogging. Yeah, they just started running and people 617 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: started following. I wish that part had been cut out 618 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: of that movie. Yeah, I thought that it was a 619 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: weird thing that should have been on the editing room floor. 620 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: They really kind of derailed things for a while for me. 621 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that movie's age well though. Uh. Other 622 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: people say though that it was Sydenham's Korea disorder linked 623 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: to strep throughout in rheumatic fever that causes dance like 624 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: twitches um. And then of course modern medical historians say 625 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: it was mass psychosis. I would go with that one, yeah, 626 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 1: I mean back then it made more sense though, when 627 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: during the Salem witch trials and before they knew anything 628 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: about medicine, and you could just say you got the 629 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: hot blood or you're having the fits, like yeah, exactly. 630 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 1: These modern cases the ones that really freaked me out 631 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: because so much as explainable. Now here's the thing that chuck. 632 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: We've always explained. It was something that comes easily to mind. 633 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: So back in the day before science and medicine. It 634 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: was the devil possessing you. And don't think that people 635 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: weren't freaked out when they thought that the devil was 636 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: there and possessing people in the same way that you know, 637 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: you're freaked out by the idea that it's cyanide in 638 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: the soil from a train derailment, from just exactly, which 639 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: is the deadliest of all the manias. But it's just 640 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: as real to the experiencer. And it all comes down 641 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: to people just basically being stick of the establishment and 642 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: letting loose for a while. I don't want to go 643 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: to work nice, so I'll dance. Have you got anything else? Uh? 644 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about collective hysteria, which 645 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: is the name of this article, type those words in 646 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: the search bar at how stuff works dot com and 647 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: it will bring it up. And I said, search bars 648 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: means it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this 649 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: UM episode on grief. We've got a lot of great 650 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: feedback and that continue. Uh, they continue to roll in. Hey, guys, 651 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: just dumbled upon your podcast through my tune in radio app. 652 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: I guess that's a mini plug We're available there now. Um, 653 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 1: I've devoured all all of the six hundred plus shows 654 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: and maybe a new listener. But I'm already a lifelong fan. 655 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: So why I'm writing in guys is I lost my 656 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: twin sister back in two thousand ten. It was a 657 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: rough time because as a fraternal twin me being the boy, 658 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: I looked at her not only as a sister, but 659 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: as a mother and friend. Too, long story short, I 660 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: wanted to comment on the Grief show some time ago. 661 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: I've dealt with my grief through my artwork. I'm a 662 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: small town artist from Johnson City, Tennessee, and I rarely 663 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: can get noticed or any attention with my art. I 664 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: wanted to share my new piece I've just finished after 665 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: listening to how comic books work. I'm a huge fan 666 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: of Marvel comics and I hope you both enjoy this. 667 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 1: And he sent this really cool. I think it was 668 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: like every member of the Marvel universe had to be 669 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: in this picture that he did. I didn't see that. 670 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 1: It's really really neat, just jam packed full of Marvel 671 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: comic heroes and villains. Um So, Josh and Chuck, thanks 672 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: for the inspiration, laughs and getting through every day at 673 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: the office. PS. My twin Jessica passed away from epilepsy 674 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: actually a condition called sue dep sudden unexplained death of epilepsy. 675 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: My mother is trying to raise awareness because November is 676 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: Epilepsy Awareness Month. So if you guys wouldn't mind mentioning 677 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,399 Speaker 1: this on the show, she would be so happy for that. Also, 678 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: an epilepsy show would be cool too. Um. Not a 679 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,800 Speaker 1: lot is discussed about it, and that is Jason Flack. 680 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: And Jason wrote you back that is heartbreaking about your 681 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: twin sister. Very sorry to hear that, um, And we 682 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: will definitely do a show on epilepsy. And since this 683 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: is November though, people should go out and find out 684 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: what they can during National Epilepsy Month. We'll follow up 685 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: with the show. I don't know if it'll be in November, 686 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: but we'll get to that one for sure. And thanks 687 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: for that piece of art. And if anyone is interested 688 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: in a great comic book artist from Johnson City, Tennessee, 689 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: if a lot worse than Jason Flack. Jason, thank you 690 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: very much for sharing that with everybody. That means a 691 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: lot to us. If you want to share with us 692 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: and all of our listeners out there, you can tweet 693 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: to us at s y s K podcast. You can 694 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know. 695 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: You can send us an email with attached artwork to 696 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com and has 697 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the web, stuff 698 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com. For more on this and 699 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com