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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did

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Speaker 1: Cool Stuff. You're a weekly reminder that when there's bad

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Speaker 1: things happening, there's good things happening too. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy, and this week is different. Well, every week's different.

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Speaker 1: Every week is a completely different thing. That's the great

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Speaker 1: thing about having this podcast is that it's different every week.

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Speaker 1: But this week is even a different format because instead

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Speaker 1: of me being the podcast expert, I'm gonna be the

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Speaker 1: podcast idiot. Because the podcast expert this week who's gonna

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Speaker 1: explain some stuff to me is my friend Jordan from

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Speaker 1: the Dugout, a Black anarchist podcast. Hi Jordan, Hello, how's

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Speaker 1: your week? Everything's fine, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's been about the same. I think

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Speaker 2: I've been on this earth around twenty three years and

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Speaker 2: not honestly, not much has changed, you know, patriarch baby,

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Speaker 2: But you know, other than that, we're still out here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The other voice you're hearing is Sophie producer. Hi Sophie.

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Speaker 1: He I'm Magpie. Hi Jordan, Sophie. I'm glad to have

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Speaker 1: you back.

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Speaker 2: Missed too.

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Speaker 1: I think everyone else is too, And if they're not,

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Speaker 1: they can stop listening right now. As a podcast for

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Speaker 1: Sophie fans only. Don't, but don't because this is a

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Speaker 1: really good topic that's true, very important. So what happened

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Speaker 1: was I was like, there's this stuff I want to

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Speaker 1: know about, and Jordan was like, I've been reading an

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Speaker 1: awful lot about that stuff. And I was like, you

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Speaker 1: should tell me that's that's what happened. But Jordan, who

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Speaker 1: are you and what are you an expert that you're

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Speaker 1: going to explain to me?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, I'm Jordan. I am a archivist and queer

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Speaker 2: organizer and a Midwest and yeah, I'm going to talk

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Speaker 2: today about black anti fascists in the Spanish Civil War.

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Speaker 2: This is something that I've been researching for honestly a

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Speaker 2: couple of years loose sleeve, but I've been really trying

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Speaker 2: to get the fire in my belly for it, and

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Speaker 2: having this conversation with you is able to actually help

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Speaker 2: my me and my ADHD brain sit down and actually

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Speaker 2: finish a book, which I possibly finished too many books

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Speaker 2: for this. But the love of the game.

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Speaker 1: Love of the game we were talking earlier about, like

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Speaker 1: Jordan was like, how do you stop with each topic?

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Speaker 1: And the answer is that time deadlines are the only

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Speaker 1: reason I stop each stop.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think there's always like an entire context episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but before we talk about all of that, we

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Speaker 1: should talk about the fact that our audio engineer is

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Speaker 1: named Rory. Hi. Rory Hi Ri.

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Speaker 2: I've been waiting to do that for so long.

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Speaker 1: I know. I'm excited that you get to and also,

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Speaker 1: dear listener, you get to say hi Rory wherever you are.

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Speaker 1: It's always fun to do that in public. And our

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Speaker 1: theme music was written forced by own woman. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about black anti fascists in the spanishivil War.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, this is my takeover of cool people. I

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Speaker 2: finally get to be the person who tells you who's cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I do a lot of researching a lot of black history,

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Speaker 2: a lot of black anarchists or black liberation history, and

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Speaker 2: in doing that, I have found that there's so much

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Speaker 2: like bottom up approaches to fighting against oppressive institutions that

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Speaker 2: don't get called anarchists throughout history, and I actually love it.

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Speaker 2: It's part of what drives me to my politic in

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Speaker 2: and of itself. And in doing a lot of research

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Speaker 2: for this episode, there's just a lot of like black

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Speaker 2: resistance that is so bold, very beautiful and brilliant, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of it gets erased, especially anti fascist history,

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Speaker 2: because fascism as we know it right now wasn't really

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Speaker 2: named until like nineteen twenty twentieth century. European fascism is

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Speaker 2: kind of where we get some of our understandings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a europe problem, right, Like only Europe had fascism,

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Speaker 1: and therefore that only affected other Europeans. I think Europe

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Speaker 1: historically only affects Europe, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they never left the continent. You know, every bloody,

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Speaker 2: terrible war was totally absolutely insular, which was great for

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Speaker 2: something we might call internal colonizing or I think there's

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Speaker 2: this one phrase I love that's like before Europe colonized

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Speaker 2: the world, they had to colonize themselves. And I think

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Speaker 2: it's a really then truer like exposing like oppressive, violent

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Speaker 2: institutions and in exposing like fascism or like othering and

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Speaker 2: having that sort of out group to define your terror

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Speaker 2: on and build fear around to kind of not sometimes

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Speaker 2: control a population, but more control what they think is

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Speaker 2: possible and what they think is a reason for certain

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Speaker 2: downturns in the economy or certain downturns in social life

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Speaker 2: and right.

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Speaker 1: So like they have to blame the other in order

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Speaker 1: to build the authoritarian state inside.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and that kind of displacement of fear and

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Speaker 2: displacement of responsibility. Then to then put all of our

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Speaker 2: problems onto typically like strong man authoritarian type leadership to

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Speaker 2: be like, well, I will solve it. I will give

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Speaker 2: you quick and easy solutions, quote unquote quick and easy solutions,

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Speaker 2: which are typically just disappearances and the status quo governing

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Speaker 2: body going forward. And typically also like capitalists and the

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Speaker 2: old power structures, it could be it will see in

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Speaker 2: Spain feudal structures alongside capitalist structures that are vuying to continue,

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Speaker 2: like their sort of control over the economy, people's labor,

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Speaker 2: and the international relations. And in doing a lot of

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Speaker 2: this black anarchist research, I found a lot of anti

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Speaker 2: authoritarian and communist histories, many that have lived lives of

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Speaker 2: resistance without calling themselves. And something in my work is

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Speaker 2: that like, I'm not here to label any of these ancestors,

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Speaker 2: but drawing a lineage an anti authoritarian thought that reminds

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Speaker 2: us how and why folks have fought and why they've

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Speaker 2: fought in certain ways because anti fascism and fascism isn't

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Speaker 2: something abstract or academic. It's intensely real for a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks. And that violence comes through the history and

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Speaker 2: legacy of imperialism and colonialism of when Europe especially Europeans,

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Speaker 2: were like, well, let's go down to the continent of

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Speaker 2: Africa and take over norther theft or even just like

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Speaker 2: this whole history even back through the romans of taking

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Speaker 2: over in like colonizing other places, and eventually the through

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Speaker 2: line of what we see now is like these large

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Speaker 2: settler colony societies in which the whole purpose of it,

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Speaker 2: the whole foundation of their societies is based on the

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Speaker 2: violence of erasure and displacement and stolen labor and forced labor.

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Speaker 2: And to keep that sort of control going, one has

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Speaker 2: to not recognize it as a fault. And that's where

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Speaker 2: we are in America is we've never recognized any of

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Speaker 2: our faults or any of our contradictions and our foundations.

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Speaker 1: Right, so it's like we can end up fascist in

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Speaker 1: part because we don't acknowledge the fact that we started.

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Speaker 1: Let's go with real bad fascism is obviously like a

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Speaker 1: unique political ideology, and we can't just apply it to

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Speaker 1: everything in the past, but obviously, like the horror mess

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with now with rise of fascism is obviously

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Speaker 1: like and I was like talking to my friend about this

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Speaker 1: the other day where I was like, well, it's like

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with something really, really horrible right now, it's

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Speaker 1: still better than eighteen fifty in America. Like, even though

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Speaker 1: what we have now we could call fascist, it you know,

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Speaker 1: derives from the fascist ideology, don't.

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Speaker 2: And the fascist that we used to coin the name

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Speaker 2: like Hitler and Mussolini and Franco. These are people who

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Speaker 2: quoted the US, quoted and cited Jim Crow laws in

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Speaker 2: our use of gas chambers in their reasoning and using

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Speaker 2: it as like well, if the US did it, and

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Speaker 2: actually if you make people second class citizens, it's so

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Speaker 2: much easier to actually just erase them and do a

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Speaker 2: genocide that this is the model that then Germany tries

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Speaker 2: to use. And there's something that I talk about and

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Speaker 2: I was like, it does look kind of nineteen thirties

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Speaker 2: Germany and America, but it more looks like still eighteen

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Speaker 2: nineties America. It looks like a post reconstruction America more

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Speaker 2: than it does like we have like our Gilded Age

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Speaker 2: or oligarchies, and we have the people. We feel like

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Speaker 2: we're on the precipice of something and the ruling class

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Speaker 2: is coming in very very hard to maintain its power structure,

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Speaker 2: and they know how early they have to get on this.

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Speaker 2: This is the basis of like counterinsurgency work, as being

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Speaker 2: so preemptive that you end up just creating a police state,

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Speaker 2: which in America we've been kind of fine with that

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Speaker 2: for the most part.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when I derailed us, we'll talk about history part.

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Speaker 1: Sorry about that.

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Speaker 2: No, you're good. It's a good little conversation. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: today I'm going to talk a lot about going into

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Speaker 2: the lives of black anti fascists, especially from America, who

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Speaker 2: volunteered to participate in the Spanish Civil War, and especially

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Speaker 2: those who joined the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, those that came

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Speaker 2: to see fascism as a threat to their lives, freedoms,

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Speaker 2: how they got suspain, and what they experienced there, kind

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Speaker 2: of what happened after the war, and including somehow some

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Speaker 2: of them went on to work to protect one of

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Speaker 2: the greatest culture icons of the twentieth century, Paula Robinson,

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Speaker 2: my opinion, love the man. But one thing to kind

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Speaker 2: of talk about before is like, for me, this episode

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Speaker 2: and other things is a context episode. I'm not really

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Speaker 2: going to start getting into the war until the second episode.

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Speaker 1: And for folks who haven't heard more about this before,

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Speaker 1: we've done a fair number of pisodes on this, possibly

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Speaker 1: too many episodes about it. But why not always talk

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Speaker 1: about the Spanish Civil War because it's the war that

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Speaker 1: started World War Two in a way, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the mini war before it. This was the first showdown

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Speaker 1: between fascist and you would say republican or leftist forces

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Speaker 1: that happened in the World War II era from nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty six to nineteen thirty nine, and it started with

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Speaker 1: Franco a fascist, a Catholic fascist, attempting a coup, and

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Speaker 1: then that coup failed because people resisted it, and instead

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Speaker 1: it turned into the Spanish Civil War. All of the

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Speaker 1: other powers of the Western Powers, like sat aside while

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Speaker 1: the fascists basically Germany and Italy helped Franco win. And

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Speaker 1: it was a long, bloody, drawn out fight and also

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Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating periods and one of the

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Speaker 1: most utopian periods in some ways that has ever happened

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Speaker 1: with people experimenting with whole new ways of being, and

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Speaker 1: so there's a reason everyone's obsessed with it. And if

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Speaker 1: you want to know more about it, check out roughly

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Speaker 1: a quarter of our episodes. And I'm sorry about that,

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Speaker 1: but this one's good. I've been wanting to hear more

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Speaker 1: about this particular aspect of it for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this I think is a very beautiful time in

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Speaker 2: history for anti authoritarians, especially now. But any folks that

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Speaker 2: are organizing against fascism, against authoritarianism, against patriarchal violence, and

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Speaker 2: are understanding their relationship to violence, their relationship to what

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Speaker 2: different roles in organizing against authoritarian structures look like. I

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Speaker 2: feel like this little time capsule in history lets folks

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Speaker 2: know that there are ways to move through, even like

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Speaker 2: military discipline. Like there's a lot of really good essays

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Speaker 2: and articles about how anarchists in the time period experimented

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Speaker 2: with different levels of military discipline and what that meant

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Speaker 2: for them and how that was up versus a lot

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Speaker 2: of the machismo that comes with anti fascism in the

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Speaker 2: day and age. And one thing I think is also

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Speaker 2: very interesting about the time period is I think it

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Speaker 2: was only the USSR in Mexico that were supporting the republic.

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Speaker 2: There are Republican sides at the time, and Mexico even

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Speaker 2: allowed near the end of the war folks to repatriate

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Speaker 2: to the area. So a lot of Spanish ANDCI fascists

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Speaker 2: went to Mexico, and a lot of people in the

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Speaker 2: Internationalist forces as well went to Mexico after the war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and when we talk about internationalist forces again, for

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Speaker 1: folks who were listening while the governments besides Mexico and

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Speaker 1: USSR sat aside and didn't help the left in the

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Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War, a lot of individuals from the United States,

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Speaker 1: from France, from England, from other places Italy went to

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Speaker 1: Spain and fought. And that's what we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe there were fifty two different nationalities and

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Speaker 2: countries represented in the Internationalists brigades. And it really shows

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Speaker 2: like people showed up the attack started happening. And I

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Speaker 2: get into this a little bit more, but there were

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Speaker 2: very interesting ways in which they used newspapers and media

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Speaker 2: to call for people to come and support their struggle.

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Speaker 2: But people came. But before there was Spain, there was Ethiopia.

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Speaker 2: There was the violence in Harlem in the Deep South,

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Speaker 2: and it was a long battle for black dignity and survival.

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Speaker 2: And this is about people who refuse to just wait

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Speaker 2: for justice, people who saw anti fascism as not just

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Speaker 2: a political stance, but a moral one, a spiritual one,

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Speaker 2: and a very very personal one. Hell yeah, yeah. The

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Speaker 2: paths to Spain didn't start in nineteen thirty six. To me,

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Speaker 2: it kind of starts with World War One and how

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Speaker 2: we understand some of the concepts and how black veterans

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Speaker 2: came home after this quote war to end all wars

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Speaker 2: and were still met with extreme racism, poverty, vigilante terror.

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Speaker 2: There was in nineteen nineteen the Red Summer, which was

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Speaker 2: a blood soaked welcome that sparked something deeper into a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks. So when you say the Red Summer

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Speaker 2: of nineteen nineteen, what's that about? Is that the like

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Speaker 2: like the bombing of Black Wall Street and stuff like that, Like,

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Speaker 2: what's the what's the red Summer? You know, I actually

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Speaker 2: can't remember if the Tulsa thing happened in the Red Summer,

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Speaker 2: but it was a bunch of white supremacists terror and

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Speaker 2: race riots that happened, and dozens of cities across the

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Speaker 2: US and some rural counties as well. There was a

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Speaker 2: lot of civil rights activists that coined the term, and

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Speaker 2: they had organized a lot of peaceful protests against racial

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Speaker 2: violence in that summer, and they were attacked by racial

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Speaker 2: terror by folks who were in their communities and did

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Speaker 2: not want to stand for that sort of racial equity.

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Speaker 2: In that kind of talk, there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: white on black violence. There was a lot of race

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Speaker 2: riots in Chicago, Washington, d c. And then it was

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Speaker 2: kind of related to the demobilization of folks coming back

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Speaker 2: from World War One and kind of the economic downturn

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Speaker 2: that the US was kind of starting to ben and

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Speaker 2: folks were still coming through too on and there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of labor unrest happening in that time and

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Speaker 2: a lot of labor organizing that, especially in America, still

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Speaker 2: had a lot of racial undertones. So there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks that came back from the war. They

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Speaker 2: came back, they tried to get different jobs. Some of

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Speaker 2: them started organizing, but black folks weren't let into the unions,

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Speaker 2: they weren't let on shop floors. There was organizing against

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Speaker 2: that with the long shore Men's and in the IWW.

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Speaker 1: When you're saying that, when you're saying organizing against that,

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Speaker 1: you mean not organizing against black people joining, but rather

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Speaker 1: organizing against the racism that was preventing black people from joining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely cool. And this is sort of one

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Speaker 2: of the motivators for what was called like the Great Migration,

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Speaker 2: which has went around like half a million African Americans

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Speaker 2: left the southern United States and started going north and west.

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Speaker 2: And this is also a time like to recognize that

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Speaker 2: like the South wasn't I don't know if it still is.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it is is a majority blo space,

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Speaker 2: and especially was in the twentieth and eighteenth century, which

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Speaker 2: is one reason when I look when fascist dictators, look

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Speaker 2: at how the US appropriated violence against black citizen injury,

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Speaker 2: a majority citizen injury to have a white rule, a

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Speaker 2: white minority rule, it's very influential to the foundations of

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Speaker 2: a lot of internal fascist violence or internal violence. Okay,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, the black anti fascism is in my opinion

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Speaker 2: also it goes back to colonialism. It goes this black

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Speaker 2: anti authoritarian urge, goes back to indigenous Africans being stolen, propertied,

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Speaker 2: sold into slavery and their descendants and those who immigrated

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Speaker 2: here fighting back against that colonial violence and against that

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Speaker 2: repatiation is older than the country itself, with the first

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Speaker 2: slaver volts, maroon societies, insurrections happening since we landed here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: kind of one of the first things I want to

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Speaker 2: give some examples of that is in the Palmarras area

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Speaker 2: of Brazil and around sixteen oh four, a republic of

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Speaker 2: mainly free Africans and indigenous societies made villages, war camps,

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Speaker 2: formed republics to fight off Portugal armies for decades, raiding plantations,

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Speaker 2: maintaining agriculture using the forests and like guerrilla tactics and

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Speaker 2: knowledge of the land to survive and grow and oper

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Speaker 2: in like indirect opposition to colonial slavery.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they like literally had their own basically country going on, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it was like the name itself for the

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Speaker 2: I think it's Colombos. Colombos it means like I think

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Speaker 2: it means like war camp and village. And so they

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Speaker 2: were like a bunch of federated war camps and villages

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Speaker 2: that were there as both defensive outposts to like very

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Speaker 2: purposely maintain the society outside of colonial violence, and also

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Speaker 2: I would love to do more research into the race relations.

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Speaker 2: But they were very much against the sort of the

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Speaker 2: sort of racial hierarchy and cast hierarchy that Portugal and

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Speaker 2: the Dutch were trying to implement in that region, though

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Speaker 2: they still at some points worked with the Dutch to

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Speaker 2: fight off Portugal advancements. But that's what alliances are for. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, it's like some of that stuff is so interesting

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Speaker 1: because even some of the Maroon societies, like I don't

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Speaker 1: know about specifically about the Columbos, but some of them

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Speaker 1: even like had slavery within them, but they were still

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Speaker 1: like they were They're just separate societies that were on

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Speaker 1: I don't know, they're fascinating. I always want to know

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Speaker 1: more about them, you know.

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Speaker 2: I know that's one of those things I found right before,

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Speaker 2: like a couple of days ago, and was like this,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to put more information on in here. And

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Speaker 2: then those Palmara's societies lasted about ninety years, and even

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Speaker 2: after that, there was the Haitian Revolution in the late

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Speaker 2: eighteenth century that I think some people forget, like I

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Speaker 2: think they had like over one hundred and forty revolts

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Speaker 2: before they finally had a revolution, and that in and

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Speaker 2: of itself, the consistent strikes and then the eventual overthrow

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Speaker 2: struck the heart of enslavers across the Western hemisphere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it'scared the shit out of them. It was so good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were terrified. They were terrified for so many reasons,

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Speaker 2: and so many good reasons because it also they were

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Speaker 2: scared of it inspiring folks in like the American South

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Speaker 2: and and I believe also in around Brazil because it's

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Speaker 2: one of the still like the second largest slave society

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Speaker 2: outside of the US at the time, and it did

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Speaker 2: it kept the flame of freedom strong and the heart

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Speaker 2: for rebels for generations to come. It is a struggle

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Speaker 2: that I still really would love for people to study

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Speaker 2: more of because it has so much, so much history

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Speaker 2: and nuances and how things played out and how different

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Speaker 2: relationships were built through. But it inspired folks like Gabrielle Prosser,

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Speaker 2: who was in enslaved literate blacksmiths from the plantations near Richmond, Virginia,

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Speaker 2: and they organized a massive, massive slavery vault with one

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Speaker 2: hundreds of enslaved folks and their goal was to seize

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Speaker 2: control of Richmond and to take the governor hostage, negotiate

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Speaker 2: the end of slavery, create a more egalitarian society, whole

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Speaker 2: nine yards. And they were very influenced, interestingly by American

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Speaker 2: revolutionary libertarian language and equality, and they were like, well,

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Speaker 2: why can't this be true? And one thing they wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be inspired.

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Speaker 1: By, Ah, you did it before I got to do it.

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Speaker 1: This is a takeover. You took away that my only

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Speaker 1: joy in life of now go ahead. What is inspired

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Speaker 1: by these things? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, Gabriel was inspired by the American Revolution. And you

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Speaker 2: know who else was inspired by the American Revolution? Probably

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Speaker 2: our advertisers.

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Speaker 1: That's right, all of them. Sorry, I just got really

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Speaker 1: excited at the producer.

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Speaker 2: Now. For the past two years, I'm trying to think

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Speaker 2: of things to say to get that kind of reaction

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Speaker 2: out of all if an effort. I am on the.

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Speaker 1: Show, and you did it, Andrew back, I got to say,

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Speaker 1: Andrew back.

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Speaker 2: So there was also so many more rebellions that were

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Speaker 2: directly influenced by the Haitian Revolution itself, like Denmark Vessi,

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Speaker 2: after buying his freedom after winning a lottery he plotted

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Speaker 2: one of the most sophisticated and well organized slaver vaults

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Speaker 2: in the US history. In Charleston, South Carolina. He mobilized

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Speaker 2: thousands of black people, including both enslaved and free, to

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Speaker 2: seize weapons, kill slave holders, and burn Charleston to the

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Speaker 2: ground and set sale to Haiti for freedom. Deeply deeply religious,

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Speaker 2: Vessi saw slavery as a sin against God, and Haiti's

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Speaker 2: successful Black Revolutionaris heavily influenced this thinking, especially a lot

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Speaker 2: of the voodoo that was going on at the time

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Speaker 2: that it was like faith respects faith.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The sad part about it though, is that some of

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Speaker 2: the co conspirators I believe they got rained out on

380
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Speaker 2: the day of their action, and two people snitched and

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Speaker 2: told their slave masters, and Vessi and I believe at

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Speaker 2: least over thirty other people were executed.

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Speaker 1: You know what I think about this sometimes is one,

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Speaker 1: it's really sad how many of these got shut down

385
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Speaker 1: by snitches, right, But also how many more we never

386
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Speaker 1: heard about because like, in some ways we hear about

387
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Speaker 1: them almost because they got caught, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously if they've been super successful and burned down all

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Speaker 1: of Charleston, we would have heard of it. But it's

390
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Speaker 1: like so many people ploted these things and probably were

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Speaker 1: even kind of punished, but in like a low key way.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's just like the more I read about this history,

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Speaker 1: the more I'm like, there's so many were never gonna

395
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Speaker 1: learn about, and there's still so many that we can

396
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Speaker 1: learn about, and they're all so fucking cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. That makes me think about like my whole

398
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Speaker 2: history of like Roanoke, and it was a lost city,

399
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Speaker 2: lost people when it was like, okay, actually folks just

400
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Speaker 2: left the colony, like the historians now are just like okay, yeah, no,

401
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Speaker 2: But then there's still so many different things that we

402
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Speaker 2: can just enjoy and learn from so deeply. Even more

403
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Speaker 2: rebellions from black anti authoritarians is like Robert Smalls during

404
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Speaker 2: the Civil War in like eighteen sixty two, hijacked a

405
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Speaker 2: Confederate ship, the Planter, and disguised himself as the captain,

406
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Speaker 2: picked up his family and other enslave folks along their way,

407
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Speaker 2: and then surrendered the ship to Union forces. After the

408
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Speaker 2: Civil War, Smalls built a small public education like he

409
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Speaker 2: built and worked around public education, protecting black rights and

410
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Speaker 2: resisting the reimposition of white supremacy during Reconstruction. I believe

411
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Speaker 2: he was elected to office at least five times during

412
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Speaker 2: that like reconstruction period in which that was allowed in

413
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Speaker 2: the early nineteenth century in America.

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Speaker 1: He was fucking cool. We covered him a little bit

415
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Speaker 1: on the Civil Civil War war, maybe like the second

416
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Speaker 1: episode we ever did of.

417
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Speaker 2: This show, Okay, because I knew I had heard that

418
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Speaker 2: story before when I had found am And there was

419
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Speaker 2: like even more organized efforts to fight against the sort

420
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Speaker 2: of racialized violence that was happening in the States, with

421
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Speaker 2: Marcus Garvey being a big inspiration for Pan Africanism, the

422
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Speaker 2: Back to Africa movement and establishing the UNIA, the Universal

423
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Speaker 2: Negro Improvement Association. There was also this a little lesser

424
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Speaker 2: known communist group called the African Blood Brotherhood founded by

425
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Speaker 2: Cyril Briggs, a black journalist around lasted around nineteen nineteen

426
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Speaker 2: to twenty twenty.

427
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Speaker 1: Five, which is a sick name. I'm just gonna Zeril Briggs. No, No,

428
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Speaker 1: well that too, but no, the Blood Brotherhood, what was it.

429
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Speaker 2: Yeah, the African Blood Brotherhood. They were inspired by a

430
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Speaker 2: lot of like traditional African Blood Brotherhood rituals that are

431
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Speaker 2: kind of like a coming of age sort of thing.

432
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Speaker 2: And then also they were heavily inspired by the Irish

433
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Speaker 2: Republican Brotherhood at the time. Cyral Briggs was a Black

434
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: journalist and socialists from the Caribbean islands around like the Nevies,

435
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: and they were like a semi secret, super hierarchical but

436
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: semi secret radical organization promoting black self determination, armed self defense,

437
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: anti racism, and anti capitalism. They were heavily inspired by

438
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: the Russian Revolution that had just happened in nineteen seventeen

439
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: and the failures of American democracy to deliver any sort

440
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: of racial justice. They advocated for self defense, organized self

441
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: defense classes against racial violence, especially after that Red Summer

442
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: of nineteen nineteen when a bunch of white mobs attacked

443
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: Black communities and they urged for the overthrow of white

444
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: supremacist capitalism, solidarity with revolutionary movements globally like they were

445
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: really big into like early Black internationalism outside of just

446
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: doing like a Pan African kind of scheme, and they

447
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 2: leaned a lot of their roots in media and published

448
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: the Crusader Magazine. They can be quoted in their pamphlets

449
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: saying in like their Principles of the African Blood Brotherhood

450
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: that was published in the Crusader Magazine saying quote we

451
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: must offend ourselves with arms in hand whenever the lynchers

452
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: or mobs invade our homes or threatens our life, with

453
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: their founders going on to continue saying, quote without arms,

454
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: there can be no power. Without power, there can be

455
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: no freedom. The African Blood Brotherhood stands for the organized

456
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: might of the Negro worker end quote, which Briggs wrote.

457
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: Kind of he did a lot of like the editorial

458
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 2: and writing for The Crusader, and was like the point

459
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 2: person for it, which is why folks like tend to

460
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: look back on it as super hierarchical. But they were

461
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: like an explicit workers association trying to organize unions for

462
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: people that would be normally excluded, which for them was

463
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: also people who were not considered white at the time,

464
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: and trying to build that bridge the gap between class

465
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: conscious white people and Irish folks and people who were

466
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: like newly immigrated and black folks, especially during the one

467
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: of the Great migrations when folks were going north. So

468
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 2: they advocated a lot of alliances with communist movements and

469
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: with the Party itself eventually dissolving into the party.

470
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's so fascinating

471
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: to me about this. I hadn't heard as much about this,

472
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: and that's I'm really excited about it is that I

473
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: think we get presented this idea that like Black American

474
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: radical history and then like the labor movement and you know,

475
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: sort of named ideological positions are just completely separate things,

476
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: and it like ignores this incredible amount of overlap between

477
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, leftism and black politics in America. I mean,

478
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: obviously in the by the end of the twentieth century,

479
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: we that's less seen as the case. But when people

480
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: talk about the sort of early legacy of fighting against racism,

481
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: I feel like the like class consciousness part of it

482
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: is left out.

483
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always loved telling people that Lucy Persons was

484
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: a part of founding the IWW here in America. Like

485
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: this has been something very integral to black autonomous politics

486
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 2: and scenes for a really long time, and something we

487
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 2: see a lot in Black communities is like this, some

488
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: of the stuff for like the sense of safety is

489
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: still kept insular. Your politics is kept insular. You will

490
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: tell your family, your kid, like people at the cookout.

491
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: We know what to talk about and how to talk

492
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: about it. But when it comes to being out in

493
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 2: a very above ground organization. There's so many risks that

494
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: come with that that, yeah, and also so many different variations.

495
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: This is also how like after the nineteen sixties, they

496
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: stopped killing black leaders because folks started keeping their really

497
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: radical politics insular. Again, can also shift to like the

498
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: sort of black excellence that's like black without others, so

499
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: like blackness but no solidarity, which still having some sort

500
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: of principles there that don't really reach towards liberation in

501
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: my humble opinion. And that's also something that the African

502
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: Blood Brotherhood kind of had in their mode of organizing

503
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: as well, because they had a big distaste for Garvy,

504
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: especially at the time because he won. Actually I don't

505
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 2: know if they had the issue with his misogyny. I do,

506
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: but they had an issue and I have an issue

507
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: with this too, is because he I believe it was

508
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: him that said Franco can't be a fascist. I coined

509
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: the word fascism and quite literally worked with the KKK

510
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: and would have meetings with people like legal Clerk of

511
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: the Ku Klux Klan. Because it's kind of this mentality

512
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: of all right, separate but equal, How do we really

513
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: stay separate? What does that mean? How do you want

514
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: us over here, Fine, we want us over there. Y'all

515
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: got to stay over there.

516
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: Then, Yeah, nationalism is a thing.

517
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one hell of a drug. And the beef

518
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: got so heated that Garvy and their meetings. Actually this

519
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: instructed p to disrupt the African Blood Brotherhood meetings and activities.

520
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: But then like by like the mid nineteen twenties, many

521
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: of the African Blood Brotherhood were already members of the

522
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: Communist Party. And I want to look more into this history,

523
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: but it's kind of like seems like like the Central

524
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: Committee inside of the Communist Party absorbed and it was

525
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: like y'all got to shut down. The ABB just become

526
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: like an auxiliary council inside of us.

527
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: Which there was a lot of that going on with

528
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: the American Communist Party around that time. They tried to

529
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: do it to a bunch of unions and stuff too.

530
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure they succeeded with some.

531
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then kind of to put a chef's kiss

532
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: on the history of black resistance and oppressive institutions and

533
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: like the violent societies that they inhibit. I want to

534
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: read Claude Mackay's poem If I Must Die, which has

535
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: been reprinted an uncountable amount of times, and through doing

536
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: this research, I have seen mentioned and cited like by

537
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: almost every person that that I've read through, either whether

538
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: they talk about Claude Mackay themselves as an anti fashion

539
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: or antiasis writer, or people like James Yates and Salary

540
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: a key that we'll talk about now or later on

541
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: adoring and using as a kind of mantra. So quote,

542
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: if we must die, let it not be like dogs

543
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: hunted and penned in an inglorious spot while round us

544
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: bark the mad and hungry dogs making their mock at

545
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: our accursed lot. If we must die, Oh, let us

546
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: nobly die, so that our precious blood may not be

547
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: shed in vain. Then even the monsters we defy shall

548
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: be constrained to honor us through dead. Oh, kensman, we

549
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: must meet the common foe, though far outnumbered, let us

550
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: show us brave and further thousand blows, deal one death blow.

551
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: What though before us lies the open grave like men

552
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: will face the murderous, cowardly pack, pressed to the wall,

553
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: dying but fighting back. End quote.

554
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: That's fucking metal, Yeah.

555
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: It really really is. I'm like, Oh, I could put

556
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: that through a little diy punk songe real quick yeah yeah,

557
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: and many people, many of the people we will talk

558
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: about in the future, know the levels of fascism and

559
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: what resisting sort of violent colonial and racial violence and

560
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: terror means. James Yeates, who I will be hooting heavily

561
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: in this episode, describes kind of the conditions of Mississippi

562
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: during his upbringing. Quote. There was a mass lynching near

563
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: the town of Shibudah where the highway and railroad across

564
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: the Chickasaio River. Some parts of the incident were written

565
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: up in northern newspapers. No one ever is charged with

566
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: the crime, although the local members of the klu Klux

567
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: Klan were well known. Five men and four women were

568
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: hung their feet dangling just inches above the river's muddy waters.

569
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: Such was Mississippi in those times. The only thing a

570
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: black man or woman had to do to get lynched

571
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: was not move off the side work for miss Ann

572
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: or mister Charlie. A black must never be caught drinking

573
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: from a white only fountain, or making the mistake of

574
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: using the front door instead of the back door. Stealing

575
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: a chicken or a pig was very dangerous. Being caught

576
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: at this could get you twenty years on the chain gang.

577
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: If you were black in Mississippi, lightning would surely strike

578
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: home sooner or later. Here's an example of how it

579
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: struck equipment. Around nineteen eighteen. My uncle Willy, while working

580
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: in the sawmill one day, accidentally hit a white man

581
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 2: with a piece of lumber he was carrying. He managed

582
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: to make it home before being chased away from the mill.

583
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: The news spread like wildfire all throughout town, passing word

584
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: lynching tonight. I can remember Grandma Lizzie pacing the floor

585
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: all throughout the afternoon. Aunt Bell, my uncle's wife, was

586
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: almost speechless. He would die fighting rather than be hung

587
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: by the clusters. The only problem now was a supply

588
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: of ammunition. That day, the town merchants had stopped selling

589
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: shells to black folks. Living almost next door to my

590
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: uncle Willy was a white family, the Linens, a husband,

591
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: a wife, and three daughters. We call the man mister gus.

592
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: He had an unusual way of speak, teaking English, I

593
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: could only catch one or two words out of ten.

594
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: Mister gus knew more about lumber than anybody in the

595
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 2: sawmill equipment. Still, he was an outcast, quote white trash

596
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: to most white people. It was said he came from

597
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: up north, but I still often heard him talk about Ireland,

598
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: a place I had never heard about before. Mister Guss

599
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: was a small in structure but big in heart. He'd

600
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: heard the news about the klu klutz Klan was coming

601
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 2: to lynch my uncle. That night, Uncle Willy heard a voice,

602
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: Willie Willie. Mister Guss wanted to make sure my uncle

603
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: wouldn't start shouting. Mister Guss asked, my uncle, what can

604
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: I do to help you? Uncle Willy told him about

605
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: how the white merchants even refused to sell rabbit shot

606
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: to blacks. Mister Gus walked away without even saying a word.

607
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: He made his way to equipment and bought ammunition and

608
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: then returned to my uncle's house with it. Here he said,

609
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: defend yourself. And then he went back to town and

610
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: told the whites, some of y'all are going to get

611
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: killed by those niggers if you try to lynch that

612
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: Willie end quote. And this is like a kind of

613
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 2: like really long part of the text that I pull

614
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: a lot from James Yate's memoir Mississippi to Madrid, which

615
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: I highly recommend folks check out. It's really beautiful and

616
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: hits a lot of the points that I really wanted

617
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: to hit in this piece.

618
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,959
Speaker 1: But okay, so this person who's quote this is from

619
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: is one of the people who later went and fought

620
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: in Spain. Yes, absolutely, yeah, fuck yeah, okay.

621
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: And this is kind of his kind of understanding of

622
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: like this is what racial terror and what living in

623
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: Mississippi kind of was at the time. And to me,

624
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: one of the big lessons around this is like, you

625
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: never know who your neighbor may be, or those like

626
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: those with conviction around you will let themselves be known.

627
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: And the answer isn't always to react immediately, but always

628
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: to prepare as soon as possible. And one thing I

629
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: read from this text was like one like the intricacies

630
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 2: of race even in Mississippi itself, with like this obviously

631
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: outcast Irish man being like what can I do to

632
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: help you? As well as like folks their relationship being

633
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: base on the shop floor in the lumber yard, and

634
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: how they're also your neighbor, and like these are the

635
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: spaces of organizing against racial terror, against patriarchal violence that

636
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: organizers all around the world do a lot of brilliant

637
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: work in that I wanted to highlight as well that

638
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: there's a lot of life saving work that happens just

639
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: on your shop floor and in your neighborhood that we

640
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: could be extending and organizing so that we are more

641
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: prepared for the levels of increasing violence that Americans face.

642
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 1: No, that makes sense. It's like like just literally finding

643
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: ways to make sure that well we have class solidarity

644
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: with each other, you know, like realizing like, all right,

645
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: we're all dealing with a bunch of different shit, but

646
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, here we are

647
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: on the like fucking shop floor. No that that's cool. Yeah,

648
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: but you know what else is on the shop floor?

649
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: I'm coming in before Jordan has a chance to do it.

650
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: But now I'm messing it up because it's not the

651
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: best transition I've ever done.

652
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you know what's not on the

653
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: shop floor? Solidaire Wait, solidari is actually I don't remember.

654
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, well, this usually adds on that

655
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: because it listen to the radio while you're working and stuff.

656
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: Maybe you're listening to this while working right now. And

657
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: if so, well, even if you're not working, here's ads

658
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: I don't know here they are.

659
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: And we're back. You can stop it skipping unless you're

660
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: a cool Zone Premium member or whatever that means. I

661
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: don't know if that's still a thing.

662
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: Cooler Zone Media, Cooler Zone Media, then you didn't have

663
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: to listen to ads.

664
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 2: Is that available and Android yet? Nope? Yeah, I'm gonna

665
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,959
Speaker 2: say I wouldn't know. I'm purely an Android user.

666
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair, I have no excuse. I'm on an iPhone

667
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: and I still end them out. I don't even know.

668
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: I haven't even signed up for it, and all I

669
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: listened to is school Zone Media. That's why haven't I

670
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: done it. It makes no sense I should do it anyway.

671
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the past five years, I think Cool Zone

672
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: Medias have been in my top five podcasts every year.

673
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, we make good stuff, cool.

674
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 2: Stuff even.

675
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: We're all right.

676
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: So in this time in America around like nineteen ten,

677
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: nineteen twenties, even with the Great Migration happening and before then,

678
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: especially during like James Yates' upbringing, it's important for me

679
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: to remind folks that the South was a majority black

680
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: and that the apartheid progressiveness of American liberty was in

681
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: full force towards its black residence, with both secret and

682
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: open organizing collectives for land, economic stability, and education forming

683
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 2: in many communities. It's where like a lot of where

684
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: snit comes from, Like when we think about like a

685
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: lot of revolutionary stuff that came out of like the

686
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: sixties and thirties. Ella Baker like these anti authoritarian traditions

687
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: as well, and that black anti fascist urge to drive

688
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: for communal institutions in which participants were valued and relied

689
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: upon was not just the tools that they used, but

690
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: it was like the motives for how they viewed leadership

691
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: and of itself.

692
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: That makes sense to me, I haven't. I've read a

693
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: lot about like black cooperative stuff and especially like, uh,

694
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like black cooperative farming that came

695
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: out of the South and stuff that that that's cool,

696
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: that tracks that, that's interesting to me.

697
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ellen Baker, who came up during this period and

698
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: in this area down South, was very much a They

699
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: were big on doing leadership training so that everybody could

700
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: see leadership, call out terrible leadership and be able to

701
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 2: take it upon themselves, to have the reins, to feel

702
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: their own power to make decisions and have those decisions

703
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: be valued, and to see bad decisions and authoritarian leadership

704
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 2: and cut that shit off. Hell yeah yeah, And so

705
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: by around like the nineteen thirties, the Great Depression had

706
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: deepened economic disparities. Black activists were organizing, and the beatings

707
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 2: that they took for protesting unemployment, both in the South

708
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 2: and the north, helped them see repression at home as

709
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: part of a global authoritarian surge. Groups like the Unemployment

710
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 2: Councils and the League of Struggle for Negro Rights began

711
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: tying local conditions to international fascism. The state's brutal crackdowns

712
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: mirrored what was happening both at home and abroad. And

713
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: then there was the invasion of Ethiopia by Mussolini in

714
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five that really lit a fire under a

715
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: lot of black activists and under a lot of internationalists

716
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: as well. From about nineteen thirty five, the invasion of

717
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: Ethiopia began, ending in February of thirty six. There was

718
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 2: still a lot more going on there, but italiand forces

719
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 2: invaded with over two hundred thousand soldiers, utilizing tanks, firearms,

720
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: aerial offenses including poison gas, mustard gas, and bombing civilian

721
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: and military positions, both to deter resistance and also to

722
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: just destroy and be able to use the land as

723
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: they needed. They were also, as they even claimed, practicing

724
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: what they wanted to do, which is like this extension

725
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: of this colonial imperial violence being the this for how

726
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 2: they would do what we see now as colonialism.

727
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so we're going to go practice on these

728
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: people who don't have any kind of munitions to fight

729
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: us back as equals or whatever.

730
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, And they also just like something we

731
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: see now in Gaza as well, like international medical units

732
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: were bombed, killed discriminately, even though there was no way

733
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: to not know they were medical units, but they didn't

734
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: really care. That was kind of their point. Yeah, because

735
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: for many black folks at the time, Ethiopia represented hope,

736
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: pride in resisting all sort of colonial advances. It's still

737
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: kind of known as this place in the black community

738
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: as like Ethiopia was never colonized. It's like a really

739
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: big phrasing. Whether that's what people consider true or not

740
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: is a different thing in my head. But like there

741
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: is a history and really long resistance because this is

742
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: not the first time Italy had advances in the region

743
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: at all, especially if you know about the history of Rome.

744
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so this is really fascinating to me because

745
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: I hadn't. This means that those are like literally the

746
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: first anti fascists, the first people fighting a war against fascism.

747
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Italy invaded

748
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: anyone prior to that, right, I mean you have, you

749
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: have anti fascists in terms of people fighting within Italy

750
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: and within Germany. But the first like war against fascism

751
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: is in Ethiopia.

752
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: Then, uh yeah, like the by the fascists who want

753
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: to name themselves absolutely, yeah.

754
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: Shit, So like black folks are literally the original anti fascists.

755
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: In this context, and that's cool. We do it good,

756
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 2: we do it best. Well best we do it first.

757
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 2: I don't know if we do it best.

758
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: Oh whatever, yeah, you fuck it.

759
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: But it was very much like Ethiopia, especially at the time,

760
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: was seen as a place for European domination was not

761
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: taking its rain on the afternitt continent, and with the

762
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 2: rising authoritarianism after a bunch of tumultuous years of the

763
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: First World War led a lot of world leaders and

764
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: especially America into like their isolationalists kind of vibe at all.

765
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: So with the rising authoritarianism led for like these strong

766
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: man type leadership narratives to be built by people who

767
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 2: were already had access to material into things that moved

768
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: the political scenes. So they relied on like rising nationalism

769
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: and like the same collapse of economic conditions that social

770
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 2: justice advocates and revolutionaries built communal campaigns of economic emancipation on.

771
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: Authoritarians then went around and built nationalism through alleged quick

772
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: and easy solutions just founded in fears, enophobia and terror

773
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 2: and violence through.

774
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so the same shit that nothing changes, that's what you're.

775
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, yeah no. And then they used technological

776
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 2: advances that become very accessible at the period, like radio

777
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: and film to kind of bolsterrough this imagery of strong

778
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: leadership and of their imagination being worked through. And it's

779
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 2: kind of like the saying that we're living in somebody

780
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: else is dream. It's just our nightmare, so we should

781
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 2: be able to build our dream reality right now as well.

782
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: And like somebody dreamed of this system that we're living

783
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: in and they think it's hunky dory and it's actually not.

784
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, there were groups in different formations of communists, anarchists,

785
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 2: and social reformers alike, that we're organizing to unite the

786
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: working class away from capitalist based solutions and to look

787
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: towards each other for even just figuring out new solutions.

788
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: What are you talking about now, you just talk about

789
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 1: globally or is this really.

790
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, kind of globally like around like the nineteen

791
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 2: thirties and like with this rise of fascism. And I

792
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: don't know who coined this phrase, but there's like this

793
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: real idea that fascism is always writing the tales of

794
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: a failed revolution.

795
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 1: And yeah, that makes sense.

796
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: I kind of. It gives that aesthetic of dealing with

797
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: social and economic problems, and it can sell that aesthetic

798
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: to you without selling you material conditions or actually changing

799
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 2: your material conditions. So as this invasion of Ethiopia uful,

800
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: it was a clear escalation for folks in the States

801
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: about the escalation in world authoritarian violence, and across the

802
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: nation of the US, people erupted on protests signs reading

803
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: hands Off Ethiopia, and the organizing to expose the links

804
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 2: of anti colonial resistance abroad to the anti lynching campaigns

805
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 2: at home became even stronger, and it all kind of

806
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: became part of the same struggles there is Salary a key.

807
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: Who is someone else I'm going to talk about a

808
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: lot more. Who's a black nurse and anti fascist that

809
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: went over to go lend aid to the Spanish Republic.

810
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: They were at this time still in the south end

811
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: of that, I believe at this point they were in

812
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: the Midwest, and they were helping raise funds for an

813
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: entire seventy five bed hospital to be built in Ethiopia.

814
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: And Yates goes on to describe some of the organizing

815
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: that they saw in their book Mississipia Madrid as quote.

816
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: As Mussolini's massive attacks against Ethiopia continued, we focus all

817
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: of our energy in to stop the fascists. We roamed

818
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: the cities collecting food clothing to be sent to the

819
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: victims of the bombs. In addition to passing out leaflands

820
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: denouncing the war, we gathered signatures and sent them to

821
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: President Roosevelt and treating him to stop Mussolini end quote.

822
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: So it really like this beginning of these like people

823
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: recognizing the global fascist and authoritarian threat and doing like

824
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: the on the ground at home grassroots organizing to talk

825
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: to your neighbors about it. See if we can talk

826
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: to any of our politicians who have way more sway

827
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: when it comes to other world leaders, unless well, I'm

828
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: not gonna get into that. And then there were street

829
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: demonstrations and riots over the invasion in most large cities.

830
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 2: There was like a minority of black folks looting a

831
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: lot of Italian shops at the time, Like there's a

832
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: lot of horizontal racial violence happening. Well horizontal weird to

833
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: say for me, but yeah, groups ended up organizing and

834
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: putting out statements that Italians themselves did not agree with Mussolini,

835
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 2: which to a lot of folks that went over to fight,

836
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: which they were about ninety black anti fascists from America

837
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 2: that went over to go fight. It became even clear

838
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: to them with how many Italian soldiers ended up joining

839
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: the internationalists brigades in the Spanish Civil War.

840
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a kind of a good moment to be like, oh, yeah, right,

841
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: there's internationalists and anti fascists in every fucking place. Is

842
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: like all going over there together, that's beautiful.

843
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as most people listening now may know, protesting

844
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: and urging your state to change foreign policy decision on

845
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: an ongoing war that the state has already deemed its

846
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 2: response to it's very hard, tiring, and a lot of

847
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: the times some consider fruitless, but it's not. There are many,

848
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: many things to do, and this is a constant in

849
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: US history that leads every generation of protesters to advance

850
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: their tactics and develop and reimagine what goals they have,

851
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 2: to reconsider what is a winning campaign, and for folks

852
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 2: in the early twentieth century, especially black people. Yeates talks

853
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: about what it feels like or what it felt like

854
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 2: to decide to start getting engaged, and a lot of

855
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: that came when Republican Spain itself started to come under

856
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 2: attack after the invasion of Ethiopia. And read the decision

857
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 2: that James Yates in their affinity group with were just

858
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 2: like they were living with a bunch of artists in

859
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 2: New York at this time, or maybe it was Chicago,

860
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: just being around, organizing scenes, going to rallies, train hopping,

861
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: just doing the thing.

862
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, same shit, yeah, uh huh, he said.

863
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: Quote. The loft had become a very gloomy place. Then

864
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 2: one day Hermann rushed in with an armful of groceries

865
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: and newspapers. He held five different papers in his hands

866
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: and all of them read in effect Republican Spain under attack.

867
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 2: The headlines screamed out at us and the fascist collaboration

868
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: in Spain seemed to jump off the pages. One paper

869
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: boldly announced Mussolini pledges the support of his troops. The

870
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 2: article concluded by saying that Spanish Republican government, democratically elected,

871
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 2: was asking the entire worlds for volunteers to come to

872
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: Spain and aid in his fight against Mussolini, Hitler and

873
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: the fascist generals. Hermann shouted at no one in particular.

874
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: Now you see what did I tell you? I've been

875
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: saying for three years that Hitler would move. First he

876
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: tightened his Nazi grip on Germany, and then he'd look

877
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: around the rest of Europe. Such a maniac cannot be appeased.

878
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: I've said it over and over. But who will listen?

879
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: Alonzo didn't look up. He stared silently at his paper,

880
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: and then he said, in his typical quiet manner, I'm going.

881
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: I'm volunteering. The time for talking is over. You've got

882
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: to put your convictions where your mouth is. I was

883
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 2: silent with the question pressed upon me, Am I ready

884
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: to go to Spain with Alonzo? I had been more

885
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: than ready to go to Ethiopia, but that was different. Ethiopia,

886
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: a black nation was part of me. I was just

887
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: beginning to learn about the reality of Spain and Europe,

888
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: but I knew what was at stake. There was the poor,

889
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: the peasants, the workers, and the unions. The socialists and

890
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 2: the communists together had won an election against the big landowners,

891
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: the monarchy, and the right wingers in the military. It

892
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 2: was the kind of victory that would have brought black

893
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: people to the top levels of government if such an

894
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: election had been won in the US. The new government

895
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: in Spain was dividing its wealth with the peasants, Unions

896
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 2: were organizing in each factory, and social services were being introduced.

897
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: Spain was the perfect example of the world I dreamed of.

898
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 1: And that's fucking cool. I was just gonna like that moment.

899
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, I know, I know that most of

900
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: my response to the script so far as that's fucking cool,

901
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: but like that moment of like, no, we just got

902
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: to do it, yeah, and being like oh shit, yeah,

903
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: you're right, this is the same struggle in a different place, Like,

904
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's cool.

905
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's a lot of to me.

906
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 2: Something in the beauty of this that I see is

907
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: it's kind of also some of the beauty I see

908
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: in snick the oh what is their actual name?

909
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: Student Onnviolent Coordinating Committee?

910
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. And with Martin Luther King Junior,

911
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 2: my coast and I print Secure talk a lot, especially

912
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 2: during the election, around like what voting means to us

913
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: and what especially as black anarchists, and what voting that's

914
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: respected by the state means. And there's these beautiful speeches

915
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 2: of Martin Luther King very early on, being like, we

916
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: will have our black judges, our black cops, our black

917
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: lawmakers will be at everywhere. If they just give us

918
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: the vote, we won't need to even hear from the

919
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: white oppressors anymore. And I know, damn well, even as

920
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 2: a black anarchist, if I had heard that one hundred

921
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: years ago, I'd be in the back like, yeah, let's

922
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: get our thing on. And because it's one of those

923
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 2: fundamental human urges that folks see something being denied them,

924
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: something granted access to others, and they're like, well, why

925
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: not us, And the imagination of being able to think,

926
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 2: oh well, if we were able to, especially post reconstruction

927
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: actually have a black republic outside of that that was

928
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: like based on the majority and based on how things

929
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,479
Speaker 2: were going, they would be the government of the South

930
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: would be a lot blacker than it is now and

931
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: has ever been post reconstruction.

932
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: I think about this constantly. As soon as I learned

933
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: about how terribly you know, the Ku Klux Klan came

934
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: in and was like, we're going to fuck this up

935
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: through random, non legal violence. But then instead they just

936
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: came in with Jim Crow and were like, actually, we're

937
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: gonna put this down legally, and like, yeah, how completely

938
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: fundamentally different the United States would be without Jim Crow.

939
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: It wouldn't just be like, oh, we had reached a

940
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: quality sooner or whatever, but like just literally it would

941
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: be a different country, and a almost certainly substantially more

942
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: interesting and good one.

943
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, like extremely interesting. And that's something that even now urges.

944
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: There's efforts for like the Republic of New Africa, which

945
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 2: is like the combination of like the Deep South states

946
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: into being formed of public and even through to the

947
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: Black Panther parties kind of held this this political line

948
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: that I still love, which is we still haven't got

949
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: to decide whether we wanted to be US citizens or not,

950
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 2: and we should have a referendum on that because I mean.

951
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, like all right, we got we get to choose,

952
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: and we're going to try and choose. Yeah, no, it's interesting.

953
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And with that conviction, they had decided they were

954
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: going to travel to Spain. And that is a kind

955
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: of conversation that happened with a lot of folks, with

956
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: some folks lying to their family about where they were going.

957
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: And one thing before in this off like to talk

958
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: about how isolationless the US was at this point and

959
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 2: how they very much I think, as you said earlier,

960
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: they were like, we're not picking a side, which usually

961
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 2: means neutrality usually means you're never fully neutral. Like they

962
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 2: stopped people from getting passports to go over to Spain

963
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: to go and try to actually participate. So a lot

964
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 2: of folks had to go directly to France and cross

965
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: the Pyrenees mountain range, and like all these different ways.

966
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: It was not a straight shot for anyone to go

967
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: straight to Spain unless you were already over there. There's

968
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: like a combination of boat, train and hiking through these

969
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: mountain ranges.

970
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the whole like isolation has just mean deciding

971
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: with the oppressor, like the US, France and England, we're like, oh,

972
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: we're staying out of it. And by that, I mean

973
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 1: we're putting an embargo on arms for either side to Spain,

974
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: whereas like Germany and Italy like sweet, we're gonna send

975
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: fucking munitions to the fascists. That's great, you know, and

976
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: leaving you know, the overwhelming majority of international munitions came

977
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: in through the USSR, which of course has its own

978
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: mess because then they were like and now we're in

979
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: charge of everything.

980
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And I think there's there's a lot of

981
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 2: stuff written about, like the Communist Party and how the

982
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: USSR engaged in the SPANISHI War, which is not something

983
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: I get too into in these next couple episodes, but

984
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 2: it is a very interesting way to see international relations

985
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: be played out, and how the USSR took that mantle

986
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,919
Speaker 2: up when it came to other revolutionary causes, something even

987
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 2: Sha Gavera had issues with.

988
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: Oh shit, I need to one day, I'll read more

989
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: about that whole thing. That's the infinite onion of history.

990
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Fun fact Shay went and fought in the Democratic

991
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: Republic of Congo after he yelled at the USSR for

992
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 2: having terrible revolutionary politics with other international brigades, and went

993
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: over there to go try to help them before he

994
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 2: went over to more South and Central America. Yeah, yeah,

995
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:42,479
Speaker 2: it's very very interesting, And yeah, travel wasn't a straight shot.

996
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: It was a combination of boat train and hiking through

997
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: treacherous mountains. James Yates describes one of like the last

998
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 2: moments of their climb as quote, Within minutes of beginning

999
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 2: the second lap of the climb, we tossed away most

1000
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 2: of our possessions. Men threw away their knapsacks, coats, blankets,

1001
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: anything to lighten the load. They even took off their

1002
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 2: socks and flung them into the darkness. I kept my shoes,

1003
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: but threw away most everything else. When it came to

1004
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 2: my books, I tried to fit them into my pockets,

1005
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 2: but they felt like pieces of lead. I fingered them regretfully,

1006
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 2: then pulled too out, letting them drop. They flittered down

1007
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 2: through the blackness. It was a part of me falling.

1008
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 2: Later I found the books I still had was the

1009
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: one by Lynston Hughes end quote. And then when arriving

1010
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,959
Speaker 2: I really love how Yates describes their first contact after

1011
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: these like the Pyrenees mountain range is like they went

1012
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 2: up one mountain, then down another steep, steep mountain, and

1013
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: then up another steep, steep mountain, and then down another steep,

1014
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: steep mountain, and then the second lap was up Another's

1015
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: like it was a lot of up and down And

1016
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 2: it's to me one of those convictions because a lot

1017
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: of folks died just getting to Spain and specifically on

1018
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: that mountain range, and it kind of to me colors

1019
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: some of the approach of this is something that I

1020
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: didn't really mention it, but like Yates talk about, like

1021
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: it didn't really hit James what they were really going

1022
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: to do until they were on the boat to France

1023
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: and they were like, crap, I might die. Yeah, And

1024
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: I think that's also something that really shows how little

1025
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: society back then, even kind of now we have an

1026
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: issue with it. But talked about war, the trauma of war,

1027
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 2: what it means to like engage in violent acts, but

1028
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 2: then also what it means to take those violent acts

1029
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: that are being disposed onto you and do something to

1030
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 2: dismantle the system that is making that systemic.

1031
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1032
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, and then the kind of through lines that

1033
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 2: in also highly recommended like folks read this Mississippi to

1034
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: Madrid because they bring so many beautiful comparisons between Spanish

1035
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 2: culture and Black American culture that kind of struck me,

1036
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 2: which I guess I'll just end some of this off

1037
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 2: by saying another quote from James Yates book is quote

1038
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: around five in the morning, we arrived at our first

1039
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: Spanish outposts, a monastery. It was midway down the mountain

1040
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 2: and served as a way station for those who have

1041
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 2: been forced to take this route into Spain. No monks

1042
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: were there. A few Spanish loyalists guarded the posts, receiving

1043
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: and dispatching volunteers. It struck me that this monastery was

1044
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: much like the places used by abolitionists who temporarily house

1045
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 2: slaves escaping the plantations of the South in America.

1046
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: That's cool, I mean, sorry, I keep fucking saying that,

1047
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: But like this idea of the through line that they

1048
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: don't see this as a separate thing, and I don't know,

1049
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: sometimes it's interesting.

1050
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this was only the beginning of their journey,

1051
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 2: and one that was mirrored by many anti fascists and

1052
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 2: black anti fascists alike that had to go through these long,

1053
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: long tracks. Yeah, and there's even more to come, and

1054
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: I hopefully I'm going to tell you even more about

1055
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 2: the specific anti fascists that came through next episode.

1056
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I am impressed that you managed in true

1057
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: cool people who did cool stuff style. One half of

1058
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: the podcast is to get you to where the thing happens.

1059
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:05,919
Speaker 1: That's what we do.

1060
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 2: Yup.

1061
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: I'm making fun of myself when I say this, but

1062
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: it's like, it makes so much sense with this because

1063
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, the whole point is that this connection

1064
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: between these two struggles is so often ignored and so

1065
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: showing the connection directly, Fuck yeah, I'm excited to find

1066
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: out what happens.

1067
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's so much more history for folks to

1068
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: delve into in context of anti racist and anti oppressive

1069
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: organizing that drove fifty two different nationalities to come to

1070
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: Spain and fight some fascists and yeah, yeah, I think

1071
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 2: it's a really beautiful context for folks to look into,

1072
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: or like point of history for folks to look into.

1073
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of really dopeap like organizing,

1074
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: especially like black autonomous and cooperative organizing that happened post

1075
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 2: reconstruction that is rarely rarely talked about.

1076
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna hear more about what happened in Spain

1077
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: with it on Wednesday. But in the meantime, what if

1078
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: people are like, wow, I sure liked hearing Jordan talk

1079
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: about a thing. If only there was another podcast where

1080
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: I could hear Jordan talking about a thing. What could

1081
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: they do?

1082
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: Well? They could hop over to anywhere that they listen

1083
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: to podcasts and look up The Dugout, a Black Anarchist Podcast,

1084
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 2: or you can go to our Instagram at Dugout Podcast

1085
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 2: and check out the link in our bio to get

1086
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 2: us on Spotify or any of those major platforms. Because

1087
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 2: sometimes it's still a little hard to reach out to

1088
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 2: us because we did a podcast called The Dugout in America,

1089
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 2: so it's very baseball heavy things. It's kind of hard

1090
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 2: to find our show.

1091
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: Whenever you're listening to this podcast, just go over listen

1092
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,919
Speaker 1: to The Dugout, a Black Anarchist podcast, or just start

1093
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: getting into baseball. That's another thing you could do if

1094
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: you want, sofa, are you into baseball? Basketball? I know

1095
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: you're into basketball, but I was wondering if you're multi

1096
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: sport us. I don't dislike baseball, but it's not a passion. Okay,

1097
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: fair enough.

1098
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I only ever played in the outfield and my

1099
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 2: parents would always gett mad at me because I just

1100
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: did like gymnastics in the outfield and was never there

1101
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 2: when the ball was coming my way.

1102
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly, all right, We will see you all on Wednesday.

1103
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 2: They Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production

1104
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 2: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1105
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 2: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1106
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1107
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 2: your podcasts.