WEBVTT - No Rules with Katie Maloney 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:06.000 This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio Podcast. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.920 Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:12.760 Today we have. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:15.800 On a woman who's was caught up last year and 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:17.599 continues to be caught up this year, and one of 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.599 the most dramatic headline making moments ever scanned of all. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.959 Katie Maloney of vander Pump Rules is joining us to 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.720 discuss where the season's at right now. They are in 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:35.080 these first season since Tom Sandoval publicly it came out 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.120 that he was cheating on his partner of more than 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.720 a decade, Arianna, with their very good friend Raquel. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:43.200 Katie and all. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.400 Of the vander Pump Rules cast are in the middle 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.120 of figuring it all out. Will they welcome Tom back 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.080 into the fold? What does it look like when a 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.040 relationship of over a decade falls apart on TV and 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.440 in front of the world. And actually Katie herself dealt 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.800 with that with her husband, Tom Schwartz, so they got 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:58.800 divorced and they're. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:00:59.960 Still dealing with that fallout on TV. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.000 A lot of lessons to take away and a lot 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.520 of questions about the inner workings of reality television. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.360 We are excited to have Katie Maloney on the show 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.399 today to dive into all of this and so much more. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.080 There's Katie, Hi. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.520 How are you good? I'm so glad this is finally happening. 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.840 I was looking back I DMD Katie today and I 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.000 was looking bad back at when I was dming her 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.160 around this time last year, going. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:23.959 I can't believe the way they're treating you on this 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.560 season of vander Fump Rules. They need to have more 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:31.840 respect for what you've been through. You know here it is. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:33.680 Have you guys ever met No? 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.959 No, it's good to meet you. It's great to meet you. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.560 It's really nice to meet you. I think for a 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.080 majority of my life, and. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.360 I sadly you probably have. Yeah, you was probably when 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.240 you were three the show started. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:48.840 No, I don't know when it was, but I was 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:49.440 definitely young. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:50.720 Were you a Bachelor fan? 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:51.040 Katie? 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:51.680 I didn't know that. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.160 Yeah. I sweahed with my mom, like from the beginning. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.080 Oh really, yeah? Did you? 0:01:59.360 --> 0:01:59.480 So? 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.920 It's funny. Did you think watching the Bacher Batchler tte 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.000 You're like, yeah, I'll do this someday or I wouldn't 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.200 mind getting into reality TV? Was that ever a thing 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:08.560 for you? 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.720 No? I didn't. I never ever thought reality TV and 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:18.800 definitely never thought I'd do like the Bachelor Bachelor. No, yeah, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.560 I didn't think I'd ever like I never thought it 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:21.920 was for me. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.560 Did you ever think that this is something that's been 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.040 striking me about vander Pump Rules this season. They keep 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.480 cutting back to like ten year old footage and they'll 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.560 be like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and I'm like, oh 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.480 my gosh, vander Pump Rules has been on for over 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.720 a decade. Did you ever think the show would last 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:41.119 this long? 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.240 No, I mean I hope, you know, for a long time. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.480 It was just kind of like, I hope we get 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.360 another season. I hope. I'm as bach for another season. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:57.440 But I think at this I mean, it's so hard 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.360 to get past the second season. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.320 Even yeah, it's. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.520 So oversaturated, But even when our show first started, I 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.160 think we just were like, well, we may as well 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.080 try to make it the best we can and just 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.000 like really show up for it. I know. 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.040 That's what's funny. People talk to me about the Bacheler 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.240 and the success, and it's like, well, you have to remember, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.920 it's not a success. It's just vander Pump Rules, and 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.280 it's this new idea and the Bacheler was the same 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.960 way when it started, and you're just praying to God 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.160 you get season two, and then you're praying to God 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.560 you get season three, and you never feel like any 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.280 of it's promised to you. And part of that is 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.360 the networks and the studios are very good about never 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.080 allowing you to have power. They want to keep you 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.080 down and make you cared. Yeah, they want to make you. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.560 Feel anyone could replace you at any moment, and everyone 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:42.320 wants this job. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:44.840 They always want to make you feel like you were replaceable, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.360 even if you're not. But that is part of it, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.440 and people kind of forget that. They just go, oh 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.240 my gosh, vander Pump, it's going to be or forever, 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.440 it's always going and you're you're a millionaire, and it's like, no, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.640 I'm scared to death just hoping to keep my job. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.000 Yeah, there's no job security, there's no like feeling complacent 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:07.400 or no, you're just you're constantly just like yeah, it's 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:08.720 a little terrible. Yeah. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:10.720 They're never like Katie, we love you, We're gonna go ahead, 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:12.520 you know what, let's do a ten year deal like 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:13.160 you were in. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.640 Well, you know what's interesting too, Katie that the parallels 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.440 are pretty similar. As I watch I've watched more reality 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.840 TV after I've left The Batcher probably than I ever 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:23.760 did before, maybe. 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:24.839 Because it was work for you before. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.080 And so now when I watch vander Pomper, I watch 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:28.800 these other shows, I'm like, you know what, vander Pump's 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.480 kind of similar in that it's a job and you 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.400 are hoping to be picked up for another season and 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.400 all those things that are business related, but it's also, Katie, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:39.760 it's also your life, and it is your emotions and 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.040 it is your so it's it's very similar in that 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.159 way because people that go through it, you're really going 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.000 through it, and it's a job. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.960 Yeah, And I think I think that's something that people 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.760 forget because they're just watching and being entertained and the 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:56.919 whole thing, and they're you know, they can get a 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.800 bit ravenous for it, and they want the instant gratific, 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.679 they want more, and I'm just like over here just 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.000 trying to get through it and repair my life and 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.360 repair friendships in between, and just you know, keep moving. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.159 And it's it's so unconventional and I think people don't 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.719 understand how difficult it can be until they sign up 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.160 for it and then they're like, oh, wait a minute, 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:22.720 I don't if I like this. 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.839 So Katie, I'm going to dive in and I'll tell 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:30.000 you I watched. I was behind. I watched all of 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.800 season two up till I'm now caught up. In the 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:37.160 last three days, I've watched what I know. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:39.000 Lauren's been on a bender. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.760 I've been in a dark place watching it. I've been 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:43.960 texting him like, is love real now? 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.680 It's almost yet it's shaking up our marriage by the way. 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.480 It's like I kind of I. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.039 Kind of do that sometimes though, because I have a 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.120 hard time. Sometimes there's so much on Bravo, and I 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.440 love Bravo, but I can't so sometimes I like hold 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.240 off on something and then I just binge it later. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.920 But so here's my first question. I have been so struck. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.240 Can you tell me how much time was it between 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.040 when the reunion was filmed from last season after scandaval 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.640 and when you guys started filming. How much time was there? 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:20.520 It was roughly maybe a little over three months. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:21.360 Oh three months, Okay. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:27.240 I've been struck by how quickly people seem to be 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.160 like people not you and Ariana seem to be welcoming 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.960 Tom Sandoval back into the fold like in the beginning, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.919 in the first couple episodes. I mean, yes, there was, 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.360 but I was like, oh, people who were so angry 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.400 at him at the reunion have really changed their tune. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.880 Was that striking to you. I mean I'm talking about 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.480 like Laala and like Shina. I just was a little shocked, 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.920 especially I think by Laala because she was so mad 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:54.720 at the reunion. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.760 Yeah, it was. And it was being kind of position 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:02.520 to us of like, you know, I want to move 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.880 on and let go of anger, and I think, like 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.560 that's totally fair. I wasn't necessarily hanging on to it. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.360 I had just made a decision about how I felt 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:17.680 about the person. I don't keep that person around, you know. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.920 I was moving forward with the knowledge of who that 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.520 person is and whether or not they add value to 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.640 my life, and was just like, no, thanks. It wasn't 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.840 me holding onto anger. I don't. It's not like I 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.880 woke up every day and was like, must hate Tom 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.360 Sandibal and put all my into that decision. It just 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.440 was like, uh, yeah, I've collected that and this is 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.600 how I'm moving forward. So yeah, it was a little 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.440 shocking because I just I don't. I don't know. I 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.560 felt like I felt like they had to kind of 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.600 work extra hard to explain why they were kind of 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.760 opening themselves up to it. I was like, that feels 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:57.520 like a lot of work. 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.600 I don't, well, was that honestly? Is that just for 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:01.000 the show? 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.080 Was that because it's like, we've got to have Tom 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.640 Sandval back in here, because you know, we need this 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.000 narrative to continue, and so hey, we need you guys 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.600 to like welcome him back in. That's where my producer 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.800 awareness mind goes, which you have a better one than 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:13.160 me on that. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.320 Well, and by the way, kudos to the producers, Like 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:16.920 and I know you guys didn't have anything to do 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:18.800 with it, but many shows would have said, Okay, after 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.200 this big scandal, we got to get rid of one 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.520 of them. You know, we're not bringing Tom back. I 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.600 thought it was a stroke of genius to bring him back. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.240 They still have him on the show. I mean, as 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.880 a producer, I'm like, you got to include him. But yeah, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.959 I think it's interesting. Did they ever talk to any 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.160 of you guys or was that just independently you just 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.600 figured individually this is how I'm going to treat it. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.280 I mean whoever was going to come back or was 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.679 willing to come back. Of course they wanted to follow that. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.280 I mean it is they wanted to see what the 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.840 aftermath was going to be and how that was going 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.360 to be navigated by everyone that was still involved. But 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.120 of course it was you know, everyone has their own 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.480 different feelings about it, and like I felt the way 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.600 I felt, and if there was going to be conversations 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.040 or should there be conversations obviously like this is who 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.320 was involved, so as many conversations that could we had, 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.480 they wanted to see that, but ultimately I was in 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:16.920 charge of what I was going to say. 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.400 Yeah, okay, let me ask this question. If the cameras 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.320 were not rolling, would Laala ever talk to Tom standerbal Again, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:31.680 that's a good question. I'm like, maybe Sena would. I 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:32.800 think Shena maybe would. 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.760 Yeah. I mean again, I can agree with that. But 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.320 you know, I always try to do I always try 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.600 to look at things like would I do this if 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:44.400 cameras were not here? 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.480 I always want to do That's how you're living. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.240 Yeah, And I mean like, yeah, there's and then there's 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.120 some things, Yeah, there's little things whatever. But for the 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.080 most part, I really have to. In order for me 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:56.960 to feel good about the things I'm saying and doing, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.160 I need to like one hundred percent believe them. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.199 Yeah, do you think that? I don't think everybody operates 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:10.880 that way on the show. I so. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:18.679 Tom Schwartz, your ex husband on the show. Still, you 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:20.560 guys seem to be in a better place this season. 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.160 How would you describe how things were for you now 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.320 versus last year and where you guys are at. It 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.920 seems a little lighter, a little more laughy, But how 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:28.200 are you? 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:36.120 Yeah? I think just having a little more time put 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:41.440 between us, and you know, just healing from divorce and 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.680 more established boundaries has helped us a lot, because, you know, 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.000 we went from being married and husband and wife to 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.280 like trying to be friends, and. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:51.040 It was. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.640 Difficult to do and he wasn't able to respect my 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.760 feelings and kind of the things I needed in order 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.200 to feel comfortable with that, and that heard a lot, 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.880 and so I had to kind of put a lot 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:08.040 of distance between us and remove access to my life 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:14.400 for him, and he understood that, and slowly we just 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.360 were kind of able to figure out some kind of 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.280 semblance and what that looked like a lot of it 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.839 had to do with our dogs. But we always had 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.079 like a really great friendship, and no one really got 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:26.320 to see a lot of that. They saw a lot 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.040 of the arguments and the fights and the bad stuff. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.000 But we were together for a really long time and 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.480 there was a reason for that, and it was because 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.200 we did enjoy each other and we had love for 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.560 each other. And so what you're seeing now is that 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.640 what we kind of have that held us together a 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:43.079 little bit. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.960 Well, you all were married for ten years, right together, together. 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.480 Together for twelve years and married for almost six. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.440 Yeah, so it's a long time. 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.840 And I think that's what people forget. It's like, this 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.120 wasn't one of these reality show things where it's like, oh, 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.240 we got married in June and then by Christmas, weird 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.240 of void. It's not the Bachelor, So it's yeah, exactly, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.360 so it's like, move on, get over it. It's like 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:11.080 this was a decade's plus long relationship and marriage. That 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.360 is something that is tough to mourn. It's tough to 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.280 go through as a normal human being where you could 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.440 remove yourself from a toxic situation and start to heal 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.040 yourself right, and you can put up those boundaries and 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.440 start working on boundaries. If you are put back into 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:33.280 a work situation publicly where we're shooting television, that is 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.200 that had to be unbelievably difficult for you. You had 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.360 to have some really hard times. 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:43.160 Yeah, last year was incredibly difficult because I felt like 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.400 everyone kind of really rallied around him and forgot that 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.720 I was also struggling. And it wasn't easy. There was 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:58.040 I think, I in you know, the public guy. You know, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.000 I was a lot tougher, so I was able to 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.040 kind of present myself as being very strong and because 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.600 I am, you know, I'm a tough bitch. But you know, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.400 but it doesn't mean that I wasn't still struggling, or 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.240 I didn't go home and sob and you know, there 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.560 there's days of that. But I think people thought I 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.800 was trying to like control him because I had, you know, 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.880 certain things that I had put in place in order 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:27.360 to feel comfortable being in the environment of working together 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:32.440 and still co mingling, and people couldn't quite understand that. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.200 And I think strong people suffered, Katie, Like I think that. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.480 I mean, I feel like, first of all, we kind 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.240 of live in this culture that like really rallies around 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.320 the victim, or at least who the perceived victim is. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.800 But I think what ends up happening is when you're 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.480 the strong one, Well then people like they think you're fine, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.000 and they don't worry about you, and they don't ask 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.240 you if you're okay because you're not like showing you're 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.240 not crying, you know, and so then you get forgotten, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:04.480 a little bitter, you get ignored. 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:05.560 Did you feel that way? 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.120 Yeah, because I also was the one that left or 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.319 asked for the divorce, So you know. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.520 There was because you made the smart decision, the mature decision. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.640 It was also like not something I necessarily. It wasn't 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.600 a decision I want, Like I didn't. No one wants 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.480 to get divorced. I wanted him to step up and 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.200 show up for me and be, you know, the partner 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.960 and the husband that I really wanted and was hoping 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.800 he could be. But when I realized that was probably 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:35.480 never going to happen, I had to make a decision. 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.920 I really didn't want to have to, but ultimately I 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.960 wanted to be happy and not be lonely inside of 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.640 a marriage that shouldn't be how it is. So I 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.920 was like, okay, well I could stay in this and 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.480 just feel kind of the way I have been feeling. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:56.880 Or I could leave and rebuild and be happier alone, 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:57.920 or maybe find someone else. 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.800 I don't know, so I think, but that's a dynamic. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.040 You live through something that most of us and I 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.200 say most of us because for most of ourse. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:07.400 Yeah, I applaud you so much. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.280 I can't imagine jumping back into a televised situation. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.560 Well, when you go through a divorce, right, so say 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.920 it was your decision, and I know in this case 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.120 it was, Well, you would still have your life and 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.880 this is off camera where you would go, and you 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.400 would have your support system, right, your girls, your friends 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.080 would know, this is why Katie made this decision. We're 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.440 proud of you, we love you, we support you. There 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.520 is no martyr in the situation. There's no court of 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.000 public opinion. Typically, right, we just go our separate ways 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:41.600 and fight over the dogs. But in your situation, you 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:46.200 made what was probably a very brilliant, great move for 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.400 you. You should be applauded, you should be supported, and instead 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.800 it's the court of public opinion on television. Who's the martyr, 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.960 who's the victim, who's to blame? That's how we play 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.280 this on reality TV. So you went through some thing. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.600 Maybe I don't know if unfair is the right word, 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.680 but just difficult to say the least. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.520 Yeah, And I don't know if it's just because I've 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:18.280 had to live so many like uncomfortable and so so 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.680 many of those moments already on TV that I was like, well, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.560 here's another one. You know, we go sort of able 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.760 just to like kind of not tune it out, but 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:32.080 just it feels it's not new to me. But it 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.520 was a little difficult when I didn't feel like I 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.520 had the support of the people in the room with me, 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.480 and I was kind of going through that season just 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:45.880 feeling like is this for real? Like not like Lallah 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.120 and then Christina Kelly, but everyone was just really feeling 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.200 bad for him and forgetting, forgetting all the moments that 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.720 they'd been present for along the years, Like you guys 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.360 all know why I made the decision, like you were. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.320 There, well, and what is it where we think that 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.680 the person that made the decision because he's okay, like 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.440 like Katie's okay, Like she made this decision, so clearly 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.680 she's already gotten to the point where she's fine. She's 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:36.920 not hurting and she's she's not feeling anything. Oh poor him. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.760 Well, and his history now repeating itself, because this is 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.840 how I felt like at the beach Day episode of 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.399 this season. It's like it is starting to feel like again, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.120 like everyone's kind of rallying around Tom and pitying Tom 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.480 now and like thinking that, well, Arianna is fine, and 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.280 because she's got these like deals going on and she's fine, 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.440 and it's feeling like the same situation again. 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.480 Well yeah, And that's a lot of why I've like 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.359 really kind of sympathized and you know, wanted to be 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.520 really supportive of Arianna because everyone assumes, because you know, 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.280 she's getting these opportunities and seeming doing like very well 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.359 and that aspect, and she's met a really great guy 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.960 that that should make up for the heartbreak and the 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.760 trauma and everything, and it just it doesn't. It doesn't. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.480 Someone can bounce back, and someone can rebuild, and someone 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:23.240 can do really great in therapy and healed doesn't mean 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.280 that it doesn't hurt, and it's not you know, really 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.199 like everyone goes through that. You're not. No one's immune to. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.639 That, right, well, yeah, no one. No one gets out 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.480 of this life un skate especially and when you're going 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.159 through divorce. It's Laura and I talk about this about, 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.280 you know, taking it to the kind of quote unquote 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:48.680 real world of when say someone in your neighborhood gets divorced, 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.080 and with that social dynamic, where do you fit in? 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:53.520 Right? 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.840 You want to empathize and you want to sympathize with both, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.600 but it's like, you know, how do I treat both 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.119 of them? Am I still friends with him? And am 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.600 I still friends with her? That's always it's and so 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.760 it's fascinating to watch this play out on vander Pump, 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:08.359 but it's you know, we all go through this to 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:09.200 a certain degree. 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.000 That's why Tom and I were like, well, I don't 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:15.199 pick sides because we it was very peaceful between us. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.520 Really don't pick a side. And that's when people did 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.879 pick aside. I was like, wait a minute, he specifically side. 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:27.320 Yeah, I've seen headlines that your ex husband, Tom Schwartz 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:28.240 is dating someone else. 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.680 Where are you at with that? Like he's okay. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.119 What's interesting is we're watching him say on this season 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.760 right now that he's not ready for a relationship, Like 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:39.920 that's why he's not with this Joe person. He's saying 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.240 that he's not ready for something. Do you think he's 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.320 ready for a relationship now? Has he changed? Has he growned? 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.199 I don't know how much. You guys still talk and 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:48.480 like is this a serious thing? 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:56.800 What a typical guy thing to say, a relationship? And 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.159 then it's like the next week they were like in one. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.000 I don't want be like the authority on what is 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.000 good for him was bathroom. I want him to be happy. Ultimately, 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:14.879 I do feel like he's still very unsure about why 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:16.840 we fell apart. I feel like I don't think he 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:24.159 really understands his part in that is. I feel like 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.120 he could really benefit from therapy. I think he kind 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:35.679