Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 3: Today we have.
Speaker 2: On a woman who's was caught up last year and
Speaker 2: continues to be caught up this year, and one of
Speaker 2: the most dramatic headline making moments ever scanned of all.
Speaker 2: Katie Maloney of vander Pump Rules is joining us to
Speaker 2: discuss where the season's at right now. They are in
Speaker 2: these first season since Tom Sandoval publicly it came out
Speaker 2: that he was cheating on his partner of more than
Speaker 2: a decade, Arianna, with their very good friend Raquel.
Speaker 3: Katie and all.
Speaker 2: Of the vander Pump Rules cast are in the middle
Speaker 2: of figuring it all out. Will they welcome Tom back
Speaker 2: into the fold? What does it look like when a
Speaker 2: relationship of over a decade falls apart on TV and
Speaker 2: in front of the world. And actually Katie herself dealt
Speaker 2: with that with her husband, Tom Schwartz, so they got
Speaker 2: divorced and they're.
Speaker 3: Still dealing with that fallout on TV.
Speaker 2: A lot of lessons to take away and a lot
Speaker 2: of questions about the inner workings of reality television.
Speaker 1: We are excited to have Katie Maloney on the show
Speaker 1: today to dive into all of this and so much more.
Speaker 1: There's Katie, Hi.
Speaker 3: How are you good? I'm so glad this is finally happening.
Speaker 2: I was looking back I DMD Katie today and I
Speaker 2: was looking bad back at when I was dming her
Speaker 2: around this time last year, going.
Speaker 3: I can't believe the way they're treating you on this
Speaker 3: season of vander Fump Rules. They need to have more
Speaker 3: respect for what you've been through. You know here it is.
Speaker 3: Have you guys ever met No?
Speaker 1: No, it's good to meet you. It's great to meet you.
Speaker 4: It's really nice to meet you. I think for a
Speaker 4: majority of my life, and.
Speaker 1: I sadly you probably have. Yeah, you was probably when
Speaker 1: you were three the show started.
Speaker 4: No, I don't know when it was, but I was
Speaker 4: definitely young.
Speaker 3: Were you a Bachelor fan?
Speaker 4: Katie?
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I sweahed with my mom, like from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah? Did you?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: It's funny. Did you think watching the Bacher Batchler tte
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I'll do this someday or I wouldn't
Speaker 1: mind getting into reality TV? Was that ever a thing
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 4: No? I didn't. I never ever thought reality TV and
Speaker 4: definitely never thought I'd do like the Bachelor Bachelor. No, yeah,
Speaker 4: I didn't think I'd ever like I never thought it
Speaker 4: was for me.
Speaker 2: Did you ever think that this is something that's been
Speaker 2: striking me about vander Pump Rules this season. They keep
Speaker 2: cutting back to like ten year old footage and they'll
Speaker 2: be like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, vander Pump Rules has been on for over
Speaker 2: a decade. Did you ever think the show would last
Speaker 2: this long?
Speaker 4: No, I mean I hope, you know, for a long time.
Speaker 4: It was just kind of like, I hope we get
Speaker 4: another season. I hope. I'm as bach for another season.
Speaker 4: But I think at this I mean, it's so hard
Speaker 4: to get past the second season.
Speaker 1: Even yeah, it's.
Speaker 4: So oversaturated, But even when our show first started, I
Speaker 4: think we just were like, well, we may as well
Speaker 4: try to make it the best we can and just
Speaker 4: like really show up for it. I know.
Speaker 1: That's what's funny. People talk to me about the Bacheler
Speaker 1: and the success, and it's like, well, you have to remember,
Speaker 1: it's not a success. It's just vander Pump Rules, and
Speaker 1: it's this new idea and the Bacheler was the same
Speaker 1: way when it started, and you're just praying to God
Speaker 1: you get season two, and then you're praying to God
Speaker 1: you get season three, and you never feel like any
Speaker 1: of it's promised to you. And part of that is
Speaker 1: the networks and the studios are very good about never
Speaker 1: allowing you to have power. They want to keep you
Speaker 1: down and make you cared. Yeah, they want to make you.
Speaker 2: Feel anyone could replace you at any moment, and everyone
Speaker 2: wants this job.
Speaker 1: They always want to make you feel like you were replaceable,
Speaker 1: even if you're not. But that is part of it,
Speaker 1: and people kind of forget that. They just go, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, vander Pump, it's going to be or forever,
Speaker 1: it's always going and you're you're a millionaire, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm scared to death just hoping to keep my job.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no job security, there's no like feeling complacent
Speaker 4: or no, you're just you're constantly just like yeah, it's
Speaker 4: a little terrible. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They're never like Katie, we love you, We're gonna go ahead,
Speaker 2: you know what, let's do a ten year deal like
Speaker 2: you were in.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what's interesting too, Katie that the parallels
Speaker 1: are pretty similar. As I watch I've watched more reality
Speaker 1: TV after I've left The Batcher probably than I ever
Speaker 1: did before, maybe.
Speaker 3: Because it was work for you before.
Speaker 1: And so now when I watch vander Pomper, I watch
Speaker 1: these other shows, I'm like, you know what, vander Pump's
Speaker 1: kind of similar in that it's a job and you
Speaker 1: are hoping to be picked up for another season and
Speaker 1: all those things that are business related, but it's also, Katie,
Speaker 1: it's also your life, and it is your emotions and
Speaker 1: it is your so it's it's very similar in that
Speaker 1: way because people that go through it, you're really going
Speaker 1: through it, and it's a job.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think I think that's something that people
Speaker 4: forget because they're just watching and being entertained and the
Speaker 4: whole thing, and they're you know, they can get a
Speaker 4: bit ravenous for it, and they want the instant gratific,
Speaker 4: they want more, and I'm just like over here just
Speaker 4: trying to get through it and repair my life and
Speaker 4: repair friendships in between, and just you know, keep moving.
Speaker 4: And it's it's so unconventional and I think people don't
Speaker 4: understand how difficult it can be until they sign up
Speaker 4: for it and then they're like, oh, wait a minute,
Speaker 4: I don't if I like this.
Speaker 2: So Katie, I'm going to dive in and I'll tell
Speaker 2: you I watched. I was behind. I watched all of
Speaker 2: season two up till I'm now caught up. In the
Speaker 2: last three days, I've watched what I know.
Speaker 1: Lauren's been on a bender.
Speaker 2: I've been in a dark place watching it. I've been
Speaker 2: texting him like, is love real now?
Speaker 1: It's almost yet it's shaking up our marriage by the way.
Speaker 1: It's like I kind of I.
Speaker 2: Kind of do that sometimes though, because I have a
Speaker 2: hard time. Sometimes there's so much on Bravo, and I
Speaker 2: love Bravo, but I can't so sometimes I like hold
Speaker 2: off on something and then I just binge it later.
Speaker 2: But so here's my first question. I have been so struck.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me how much time was it between
Speaker 2: when the reunion was filmed from last season after scandaval
Speaker 2: and when you guys started filming. How much time was there?
Speaker 4: It was roughly maybe a little over three months.
Speaker 3: Oh three months, Okay.
Speaker 2: I've been struck by how quickly people seem to be
Speaker 2: like people not you and Ariana seem to be welcoming
Speaker 2: Tom Sandoval back into the fold like in the beginning,
Speaker 2: in the first couple episodes. I mean, yes, there was,
Speaker 2: but I was like, oh, people who were so angry
Speaker 2: at him at the reunion have really changed their tune.
Speaker 2: Was that striking to you. I mean I'm talking about
Speaker 2: like Laala and like Shina. I just was a little shocked,
Speaker 2: especially I think by Laala because she was so mad
Speaker 2: at the reunion.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. And it was being kind of position
Speaker 4: to us of like, you know, I want to move
Speaker 4: on and let go of anger, and I think, like
Speaker 4: that's totally fair. I wasn't necessarily hanging on to it.
Speaker 4: I had just made a decision about how I felt
Speaker 4: about the person. I don't keep that person around, you know.
Speaker 4: I was moving forward with the knowledge of who that
Speaker 4: person is and whether or not they add value to
Speaker 4: my life, and was just like, no, thanks. It wasn't
Speaker 4: me holding onto anger. I don't. It's not like I
Speaker 4: woke up every day and was like, must hate Tom
Speaker 4: Sandibal and put all my into that decision. It just
Speaker 4: was like, uh, yeah, I've collected that and this is
Speaker 4: how I'm moving forward. So yeah, it was a little
Speaker 4: shocking because I just I don't. I don't know. I
Speaker 4: felt like I felt like they had to kind of
Speaker 4: work extra hard to explain why they were kind of
Speaker 4: opening themselves up to it. I was like, that feels
Speaker 4: like a lot of work.
Speaker 3: I don't, well, was that honestly? Is that just for
Speaker 3: the show?
Speaker 2: Was that because it's like, we've got to have Tom
Speaker 2: Sandval back in here, because you know, we need this
Speaker 2: narrative to continue, and so hey, we need you guys
Speaker 2: to like welcome him back in. That's where my producer
Speaker 2: awareness mind goes, which you have a better one than
Speaker 2: me on that.
Speaker 1: Well, and by the way, kudos to the producers, Like
Speaker 1: and I know you guys didn't have anything to do
Speaker 1: with it, but many shows would have said, Okay, after
Speaker 1: this big scandal, we got to get rid of one
Speaker 1: of them. You know, we're not bringing Tom back. I
Speaker 1: thought it was a stroke of genius to bring him back.
Speaker 1: They still have him on the show. I mean, as
Speaker 1: a producer, I'm like, you got to include him. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. Did they ever talk to any
Speaker 1: of you guys or was that just independently you just
Speaker 1: figured individually this is how I'm going to treat it.
Speaker 4: I mean whoever was going to come back or was
Speaker 4: willing to come back. Of course they wanted to follow that.
Speaker 4: I mean it is they wanted to see what the
Speaker 4: aftermath was going to be and how that was going
Speaker 4: to be navigated by everyone that was still involved. But
Speaker 4: of course it was you know, everyone has their own
Speaker 4: different feelings about it, and like I felt the way
Speaker 4: I felt, and if there was going to be conversations
Speaker 4: or should there be conversations obviously like this is who
Speaker 4: was involved, so as many conversations that could we had,
Speaker 4: they wanted to see that, but ultimately I was in
Speaker 4: charge of what I was going to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let me ask this question. If the cameras
Speaker 2: were not rolling, would Laala ever talk to Tom standerbal Again,
Speaker 2: that's a good question. I'm like, maybe Sena would. I
Speaker 2: think Shena maybe would.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean again, I can agree with that. But
Speaker 4: you know, I always try to do I always try
Speaker 4: to look at things like would I do this if
Speaker 4: cameras were not here?
Speaker 3: I always want to do That's how you're living.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean like, yeah, there's and then there's
Speaker 4: some things, Yeah, there's little things whatever. But for the
Speaker 4: most part, I really have to. In order for me
Speaker 4: to feel good about the things I'm saying and doing,
Speaker 4: I need to like one hundred percent believe them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think that? I don't think everybody operates
Speaker 3: that way on the show. I so.
Speaker 2: Tom Schwartz, your ex husband on the show. Still, you
Speaker 2: guys seem to be in a better place this season.
Speaker 2: How would you describe how things were for you now
Speaker 2: versus last year and where you guys are at. It
Speaker 2: seems a little lighter, a little more laughy, But how
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think just having a little more time put
Speaker 4: between us, and you know, just healing from divorce and
Speaker 4: more established boundaries has helped us a lot, because, you know,
Speaker 4: we went from being married and husband and wife to
Speaker 4: like trying to be friends, and.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 4: Difficult to do and he wasn't able to respect my
Speaker 4: feelings and kind of the things I needed in order
Speaker 4: to feel comfortable with that, and that heard a lot,
Speaker 4: and so I had to kind of put a lot
Speaker 4: of distance between us and remove access to my life
Speaker 4: for him, and he understood that, and slowly we just
Speaker 4: were kind of able to figure out some kind of
Speaker 4: semblance and what that looked like a lot of it
Speaker 4: had to do with our dogs. But we always had
Speaker 4: like a really great friendship, and no one really got
Speaker 4: to see a lot of that. They saw a lot
Speaker 4: of the arguments and the fights and the bad stuff.
Speaker 4: But we were together for a really long time and
Speaker 4: there was a reason for that, and it was because
Speaker 4: we did enjoy each other and we had love for
Speaker 4: each other. And so what you're seeing now is that
Speaker 4: what we kind of have that held us together a
Speaker 4: little bit.
Speaker 1: Well, you all were married for ten years, right together, together.
Speaker 4: Together for twelve years and married for almost six.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a long time.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what people forget. It's like, this
Speaker 1: wasn't one of these reality show things where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we got married in June and then by Christmas, weird
Speaker 1: of void. It's not the Bachelor, So it's yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: so it's like, move on, get over it. It's like
Speaker 1: this was a decade's plus long relationship and marriage. That
Speaker 1: is something that is tough to mourn. It's tough to
Speaker 1: go through as a normal human being where you could
Speaker 1: remove yourself from a toxic situation and start to heal
Speaker 1: yourself right, and you can put up those boundaries and
Speaker 1: start working on boundaries. If you are put back into
Speaker 1: a work situation publicly where we're shooting television, that is
Speaker 1: that had to be unbelievably difficult for you. You had
Speaker 1: to have some really hard times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, last year was incredibly difficult because I felt like
Speaker 4: everyone kind of really rallied around him and forgot that
Speaker 4: I was also struggling. And it wasn't easy. There was
Speaker 4: I think, I in you know, the public guy. You know,
Speaker 4: I was a lot tougher, so I was able to
Speaker 4: kind of present myself as being very strong and because
Speaker 4: I am, you know, I'm a tough bitch. But you know,
Speaker 4: but it doesn't mean that I wasn't still struggling, or
Speaker 4: I didn't go home and sob and you know, there
Speaker 4: there's days of that. But I think people thought I
Speaker 4: was trying to like control him because I had, you know,
Speaker 4: certain things that I had put in place in order
Speaker 4: to feel comfortable being in the environment of working together
Speaker 4: and still co mingling, and people couldn't quite understand that.
Speaker 2: And I think strong people suffered, Katie, Like I think that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like, first of all, we kind
Speaker 2: of live in this culture that like really rallies around
Speaker 2: the victim, or at least who the perceived victim is.
Speaker 2: But I think what ends up happening is when you're
Speaker 2: the strong one, Well then people like they think you're fine,
Speaker 2: and they don't worry about you, and they don't ask
Speaker 2: you if you're okay because you're not like showing you're
Speaker 2: not crying, you know, and so then you get forgotten,
Speaker 2: a little bitter, you get ignored.
Speaker 3: Did you feel that way?
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I also was the one that left or
Speaker 4: asked for the divorce, So you know.
Speaker 2: There was because you made the smart decision, the mature decision.
Speaker 4: It was also like not something I necessarily. It wasn't
Speaker 4: a decision I want, Like I didn't. No one wants
Speaker 4: to get divorced. I wanted him to step up and
Speaker 4: show up for me and be, you know, the partner
Speaker 4: and the husband that I really wanted and was hoping
Speaker 4: he could be. But when I realized that was probably
Speaker 4: never going to happen, I had to make a decision.
Speaker 4: I really didn't want to have to, but ultimately I
Speaker 4: wanted to be happy and not be lonely inside of
Speaker 4: a marriage that shouldn't be how it is. So I
Speaker 4: was like, okay, well I could stay in this and
Speaker 4: just feel kind of the way I have been feeling.
Speaker 4: Or I could leave and rebuild and be happier alone,
Speaker 4: or maybe find someone else.
Speaker 1: I don't know, so I think, but that's a dynamic.
Speaker 1: You live through something that most of us and I
Speaker 1: say most of us because for most of ourse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I applaud you so much.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine jumping back into a televised situation.
Speaker 1: Well, when you go through a divorce, right, so say
Speaker 1: it was your decision, and I know in this case
Speaker 1: it was, Well, you would still have your life and
Speaker 1: this is off camera where you would go, and you
Speaker 1: would have your support system, right, your girls, your friends
Speaker 1: would know, this is why Katie made this decision. We're
Speaker 1: proud of you, we love you, we support you. There
Speaker 1: is no martyr in the situation. There's no court of
Speaker 1: public opinion. Typically, right, we just go our separate ways
Speaker 1: and fight over the dogs. But in your situation, you
Speaker 1: made what was probably a very brilliant, great move for
Speaker 1: you. You should be applauded, you should be supported, and instead
Speaker 1: it's the court of public opinion on television. Who's the martyr,
Speaker 1: who's the victim, who's to blame? That's how we play
Speaker 1: this on reality TV. So you went through some thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know if unfair is the right word,
Speaker 1: but just difficult to say the least.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I don't know if it's just because I've
Speaker 4: had to live so many like uncomfortable and so so
Speaker 4: many of those moments already on TV that I was like, well,
Speaker 4: here's another one. You know, we go sort of able
Speaker 4: just to like kind of not tune it out, but
Speaker 4: just it feels it's not new to me. But it
Speaker 4: was a little difficult when I didn't feel like I
Speaker 4: had the support of the people in the room with me,
Speaker 4: and I was kind of going through that season just
Speaker 4: feeling like is this for real? Like not like Lallah
Speaker 4: and then Christina Kelly, but everyone was just really feeling
Speaker 4: bad for him and forgetting, forgetting all the moments that
Speaker 4: they'd been present for along the years, Like you guys
Speaker 4: all know why I made the decision, like you were.
Speaker 1: There, well, and what is it where we think that
Speaker 1: the person that made the decision because he's okay, like
Speaker 1: like Katie's okay, Like she made this decision, so clearly
Speaker 1: she's already gotten to the point where she's fine. She's
Speaker 1: not hurting and she's she's not feeling anything. Oh poor him.
Speaker 2: Well, and his history now repeating itself, because this is
Speaker 2: how I felt like at the beach Day episode of
Speaker 2: this season. It's like it is starting to feel like again,
Speaker 2: like everyone's kind of rallying around Tom and pitying Tom
Speaker 2: now and like thinking that, well, Arianna is fine, and
Speaker 2: because she's got these like deals going on and she's fine,
Speaker 2: and it's feeling like the same situation again.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, And that's a lot of why I've like
Speaker 4: really kind of sympathized and you know, wanted to be
Speaker 4: really supportive of Arianna because everyone assumes, because you know,
Speaker 4: she's getting these opportunities and seeming doing like very well
Speaker 4: and that aspect, and she's met a really great guy
Speaker 4: that that should make up for the heartbreak and the
Speaker 4: trauma and everything, and it just it doesn't. It doesn't.
Speaker 4: Someone can bounce back, and someone can rebuild, and someone
Speaker 4: can do really great in therapy and healed doesn't mean
Speaker 4: that it doesn't hurt, and it's not you know, really
Speaker 4: like everyone goes through that. You're not. No one's immune to.
Speaker 1: That, right, well, yeah, no one. No one gets out
Speaker 1: of this life un skate especially and when you're going
Speaker 1: through divorce. It's Laura and I talk about this about,
Speaker 1: you know, taking it to the kind of quote unquote
Speaker 1: real world of when say someone in your neighborhood gets divorced,
Speaker 1: and with that social dynamic, where do you fit in?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: You want to empathize and you want to sympathize with both,
Speaker 1: but it's like, you know, how do I treat both
Speaker 1: of them? Am I still friends with him? And am
Speaker 1: I still friends with her? That's always it's and so
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to watch this play out on vander Pump,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, we all go through this to
Speaker 1: a certain degree.
Speaker 4: That's why Tom and I were like, well, I don't
Speaker 4: pick sides because we it was very peaceful between us.
Speaker 4: Really don't pick a side. And that's when people did
Speaker 4: pick aside. I was like, wait a minute, he specifically side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen headlines that your ex husband, Tom Schwartz
Speaker 2: is dating someone else.
Speaker 3: Where are you at with that? Like he's okay.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is we're watching him say on this season
Speaker 2: right now that he's not ready for a relationship, Like
Speaker 2: that's why he's not with this Joe person. He's saying
Speaker 2: that he's not ready for something. Do you think he's
Speaker 2: ready for a relationship now? Has he changed? Has he growned?
Speaker 2: I don't know how much. You guys still talk and
Speaker 2: like is this a serious thing?
Speaker 4: What a typical guy thing to say, a relationship? And
Speaker 4: then it's like the next week they were like in one.
Speaker 4: I don't want be like the authority on what is
Speaker 4: good for him was bathroom. I want him to be happy. Ultimately,
Speaker 4: I do feel like he's still very unsure about why
Speaker 4: we fell apart. I feel like I don't think he
Speaker 4: really understands his part in that is. I feel like
Speaker 4: he could really benefit from therapy. I think he kind
Speaker 4: of uh runs from those deep feelings, from that emotional
Speaker 4: part of it, And so I think before maybe just
Speaker 4: getting into a relationship, I think maybe unpacking that a bit,
Speaker 4: maybe sitting with that for a moment because it was you.
Speaker 1: Know, traumatic, sounds too soon to you?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I don't. I don't know. Again, like
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't want to be the one that
Speaker 4: you say he should or shouldn't right, And who knows.
Speaker 4: I mean, maybe it'll work out in point, maybe this
Speaker 4: will help heal him.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but you're so right that you can't,
Speaker 2: Like you just hit the nail on the head of
Speaker 2: what it's so simple but so brilliant what you're saying.
Speaker 2: You're not going to have a successful Like it's like
Speaker 2: the definition of being crazy is doing the same thing
Speaker 2: over and over again expecting different results. You're not going
Speaker 2: to have a successful relationship if you didn't figure out
Speaker 2: what went wrong, what you were doing wrong in the past.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's you think it's this person. You
Speaker 1: think it's this person. You think it's this person. Finally
Speaker 1: you've got to stare in the mirror and realize, oh,
Speaker 1: it's that person.
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 1: Has it been weird though for you to just watch
Speaker 1: your ex start dating again? That's always Again, that's something
Speaker 1: that we've all been through. We're all divorced. It's there's
Speaker 1: always that awkwardness. And again, we don't have to do
Speaker 1: it on national television.
Speaker 4: I mean, at first it was a little weird, like
Speaker 4: the thought of it, but at this point, like, no,
Speaker 4: but do I want to be around them and hang out? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Do I want to follow it on social media and
Speaker 1: well show.
Speaker 4: I don't really want to like double date or like
Speaker 4: it's kind of like I should be able to separate
Speaker 4: from it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, but you know, the producers are never going
Speaker 1: to let you separate from that.
Speaker 4: I know. But it's just like, but only because for me,
Speaker 4: it's like I feel like people are like assuming that
Speaker 4: I'm gonna like be mean or bully her or have
Speaker 4: all these opinions. And it's just like, I mean, of
Speaker 4: course I I'll have opinions of everybody in who they date.
Speaker 4: It's not just going to be Tom. But and that's
Speaker 4: and that's why I just like I kind of just
Speaker 4: like resent having to be around it because it doesn't
Speaker 4: matter like what I say or do, It doesn't matter
Speaker 4: if I'm get along with her, great that they'll think
Speaker 4: that there's some other I'll interior motive. I just feel
Speaker 4: like I can do no wrong or do no right,
Speaker 4: and so it's just kind of like I just want
Speaker 4: to like have a little separation there. You know.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm asking you one more question, even though I
Speaker 2: really appreciate your like, I don't know what I should say.
Speaker 2: But you also know both of these men very well.
Speaker 2: You've known them for well over a decade. Is Shorts
Speaker 2: and Sandoval's friendship inhibiting both of them from like doing
Speaker 2: exactly what you're talking about and growing you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. Well, like they're talking about potentially moving in together.
Speaker 2: That's in the most recent episode, and I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: being like, this is like they're what they're speaking into
Speaker 2: existence is like the La Peter Pan never growing up thing?
Speaker 2: And are they both like keeping each other in this place?
Speaker 2: Is this healthy for them? How can they move forward
Speaker 2: and start growing up? Is it possible?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a terrible idea, I mean them living together.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like there's a bit of like arrested
Speaker 4: development between those two. I feel that, you know, Tom Shorts,
Speaker 4: he almost he doesn't want to call Tom out on
Speaker 4: his bad behavior and his mistakes, and that's I feel
Speaker 4: like that's such an issue in a friendship because I
Speaker 4: think you should be able to be very real and
Speaker 4: upfront with your friends, especially when they behave that way.
Speaker 4: And the fact that he was just so reluctant to
Speaker 4: do so and separate himself in such a brutal time,
Speaker 4: like was really eye opening, very illuminating as to like
Speaker 4: what goes on in that friendship. And I think just potentially, yeah,
Speaker 4: and that's what I'm curious about too with like another
Speaker 4: like relationship. It's like, well, if Tom gets heavily involved
Speaker 4: with someone else, unlet's say sanevel like starts to feel
Speaker 4: like that's a threat to him or their brand or
Speaker 4: their business, Like is he going to treat her the same? Well?
Speaker 2: I know, good, like what you just said, I know
Speaker 2: you felt like and it's still being talked about this
Speaker 2: season and that Sandoval and like the business really affected
Speaker 2: you all's marriage and relationship.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean because he just acted like I
Speaker 4: wanted to come in and control things. But I just
Speaker 4: just wanted to help out and be involved because like
Speaker 4: why not, you know, I wanted it was My intentions
Speaker 4: were good and pure, but he acted like I was
Speaker 4: trying to come in and like mess it all up. Yeah,
Speaker 4: very weird about it and felt just threatened. I don't know.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it did cause issues, and because Tom Schwartz
Speaker 4: just kind of started to go with his perspective and
Speaker 4: view on it as well. Well.
Speaker 2: I mean we're also watching Tom's Sandoval talk about starting
Speaker 2: to date again this season, and I'm sitting there watching
Speaker 2: him going, Okay, he's definitely not ready to get in
Speaker 2: another relationship, Like what is this storyline.
Speaker 4: The way he do we call it? According hits On,
Speaker 4: it is remarkable.
Speaker 2: Is growth possible for Schwartz? Is growth possible for Sandoval?
Speaker 2: Because then word narcissist has been used a lot, and
Speaker 2: I think what we've the basic level of what you
Speaker 2: know about a narcissist is like they can't really change.
Speaker 2: So what do you think what is the possibility for
Speaker 2: each of them?
Speaker 4: Again? I think I think therapy. I think doing some
Speaker 4: like real like shadow work, like really meeting the dark
Speaker 4: parts of yourself so you can see those bits of yourself.
Speaker 4: You know. I don't know if they really met themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean with Sandoval truly, just from what
Speaker 1: I've seen from the outside, just seems like you hit
Speaker 1: the nail on the head, the ultimate Peter pan La guy.
Speaker 1: He is so sucked into that world and when it
Speaker 1: envelops you and you don't get out of it. And
Speaker 1: people from the outside looking at her like bro, yeah,
Speaker 1: get off the stage at the Whiskey Room.
Speaker 2: Well, I was very excited to see that you were
Speaker 2: bringing the espresso martini to Chili's. I mean, people have
Speaker 2: a love for Chili's and it comes from for me,
Speaker 2: it's from the Office from the famous office episode of
Speaker 2: Chili's where Pam has such a good time. How did
Speaker 2: the Espresso, Martini and Chili's partnership start? Because I've never
Speaker 2: seen people have such a positive reaction.
Speaker 3: To a partnership on the internet.
Speaker 2: Everyone I follow was like, yes, this is exactly what
Speaker 2: I needed.
Speaker 4: No, right, well, yeah, I mean like Shina definitely has
Speaker 4: her history with Chili's and know she worked there in college,
Speaker 4: which is awesome. I mean I've been going to chili
Speaker 4: since I can remember. Yeah, I mean they have the
Speaker 4: best ships I've ever had. But yeah, so she has
Speaker 4: that history. I have a history with tequila, and you know,
Speaker 4: Spress Martinez are like having such a moment and I've
Speaker 4: always swapped the vodka for tequila. I am a Reposoto girl.
Speaker 4: I just think the flavor on that is so like
Speaker 4: just rich and smooth and just slightly sweet. So pairing
Speaker 4: that with the espresso and then the spiced rum just
Speaker 4: kind of I don't know, it just it elevates it
Speaker 4: in a way.
Speaker 2: That's what I do. I do the tequila. And then
Speaker 2: when I heard the rum was an addition? What does
Speaker 2: the rum bring to it? Because this I've never tried.
Speaker 4: I mean it's just like it's it's a spiced rum.
Speaker 4: So it's just it just is ever so slightly has
Speaker 4: that spice because have you ever put like cinnamon in coffee? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 4: Like a little kiss of like that. You know.
Speaker 1: I grew up going to the original Chilies. I grew
Speaker 1: up in Dallas and the original Chilies was on Greenville Avenue.
Speaker 3: Such a weird fact.
Speaker 1: Across from where I played soccer as a kid. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm talking five years old, there was an old burger
Speaker 1: stand called Chili's. We would go afterwards and get burgers there.
Speaker 1: And then they knocked that old stand down and they
Speaker 1: built the first when they went chain and they went
Speaker 1: or you know, in National And so I grew up
Speaker 1: going to the original Chili's as a kid, the first one.
Speaker 1: And by the way, sadly they took it knocked down,
Speaker 1: it's gone, it's closed. You're the very first one.
Speaker 2: Well they did that wrong, but they're doing right by
Speaker 2: bringing us the espress of our tenis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. By the way, enough about the guys,
Speaker 1: what about you and love and relationships?
Speaker 4: You know, I'm I'm just really trying to make my
Speaker 4: life exciting and full and do things that I'm you know,
Speaker 4: having fun and feel like excited to, you know, like
Speaker 4: other it's hobbies or reconnecting with friends or meeting new people.
Speaker 4: Just yeah, that's that's what I'm looking forward to. And
Speaker 4: if I meet someone great, you know, I mean what
Speaker 4: I like to sure, but I want to make sure
Speaker 4: that they add value to my life. I'm not like
Speaker 4: on apps trying to just date and meet someone. I'm
Speaker 4: just you know, I'm I don't know if that feels
Speaker 4: like really draining.
Speaker 3: Okay, not doing the apps.
Speaker 4: No, I like to meet people like in outside in
Speaker 4: the world.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're in a healthy, good place
Speaker 1: now or do you feel like you're being a healthy
Speaker 1: emotional individual and you're still dealing with unpacking the divorce
Speaker 1: before I move on?
Speaker 4: Oh no, I feel like I'm definitely like in a
Speaker 4: place now.
Speaker 1: Like you're open to finding love. Yeah, okay, yeah, No.
Speaker 4: I feel like now I could actually have someone come
Speaker 4: in and I have the space and availability to that.
Speaker 4: But again, they got to add to my life.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Because you've spent much of your adult life dating on
Speaker 2: reality TV, is there anyone in the reality TV world
Speaker 2: who you might be interested in, like if it was
Speaker 2: like you met them at a at a party and
Speaker 2: you know, like anybody else is on any other TV shows,
Speaker 2: Maybe should we be looking outside vander Pump.
Speaker 4: Rules in the reality world.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, She's like, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 1: No, Katie has the best looks, like you never know,
Speaker 1: you never have to worry about her poker face. I
Speaker 1: know what she's thinking.
Speaker 2: Okay, we've checked in on the past, the love life present,
Speaker 2: I need to check in on the friendships. Why has
Speaker 2: Lala unfollowed you? This is I am so baffled. I'm
Speaker 2: so confused because I'm watching the show and everyone seems
Speaker 2: really good and now then I just saw the headlines
Speaker 2: as I was researching for this podcast that she has
Speaker 2: unfollowed you and Arianna.
Speaker 4: I think she said that she has two point something.
Speaker 2: I don't okay, she was like, I was following an
Speaker 2: uneven number of people needed to be something like that.
Speaker 3: Katie, what is really happening? What what you've known each
Speaker 3: other for years? What what is going on?
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't know. I mean, I was obviously
Speaker 4: like at the reunion things get eeded and there's drama,
Speaker 4: but this I didn't. I am a little confused, and
Speaker 4: I don't I don't mean to be like ignorant about it,
Speaker 4: but like, I just I don't understand it.
Speaker 2: Like did you text her and say why did you
Speaker 2: you've unfollowed me?
Speaker 3: What's happened?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Okay, well what are you guys talking right now? Like
Speaker 2: would you or no?
Speaker 4: No? No?
Speaker 3: Is there future reconciliation possible?
Speaker 4: Well? I think she said if she ever wants to
Speaker 4: be miserable again, we could be friends.
Speaker 1: That doesn't sound like friends, Okay, I.
Speaker 4: Just we we were great postseason, like all of it,
Speaker 4: and then yeah, I just I didn't know that there
Speaker 4: was so many issues.
Speaker 2: So Jack's was also there was a video that went
Speaker 2: everywhere of him like last week saying that the Valley
Speaker 2: is so much more real than vander Pump Rules, And
Speaker 2: you guys aren't even friends and you don't even hang
Speaker 2: out outside of the show.
Speaker 3: What do you say to that?
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't think everyone on our show hangs out
Speaker 4: after I mean, like we were fractured before the show
Speaker 4: even started. You're seeing how fractured we are, so like
Speaker 4: that's true, But I don't. I think he was saying
Speaker 4: that our show was like scripted and things like that,
Speaker 4: but I don't that. Man, does anyone believe anything that
Speaker 4: comes up as now?
Speaker 2: He Well, no, I honestly, you know what I actually
Speaker 2: I meant to ask you about it, babe, because some
Speaker 2: people were like messaging us and being like, Okay, so
Speaker 2: is how scripted? Is reality TV or not? But you
Speaker 2: would never say the Bachelor?
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: But it's like all these shows are different, Like, I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I don't know anybody who produces on
Speaker 1: vander Pump and I've never been on it, so you know,
Speaker 1: I never know. You know, there are shows that are
Speaker 1: extremely produced, extremely scripted, and then there's shows that are
Speaker 1: more game oriented, and so it's the opposite side of
Speaker 1: the spectrum. Then there's stuff like vander Pump and Bachelor
Speaker 1: that probably fall in the middle. Yes, stuff is created,
Speaker 1: it's produced. The moments that Katie's put in are produced
Speaker 1: and set up, and then what they do in that
Speaker 1: and what they say in how they live their lives
Speaker 1: is up to them. I assume.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't. I can walk into a scene and
Speaker 4: say whatever I want to say, Like I like, I
Speaker 4: get to feel how I want to feel, So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 4: some people I don't know if they want to like
Speaker 4: decide that they want to do something crazy then thens
Speaker 4: up to them. But like me personally, I like to
Speaker 4: just I have conviction.
Speaker 2: I love when they cut to a Katie interview at Katie,
Speaker 2: I TM, it's just.
Speaker 3: Like, you're the comedic relief that we need. You're the
Speaker 3: like and I don't think you get enough credit for that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Katie is the comedic narrator I needed in
Speaker 2: this moment, and thank you.
Speaker 4: I don't need to take I think it's very dry.
Speaker 2: So it goes like, well, then we just need to
Speaker 2: find you a better venue than vander pump Role's.
Speaker 3: So Katie.
Speaker 2: Some people who listen to this, of course, will be
Speaker 2: avid fans. Some people are just like listening to hear
Speaker 2: about relationships and learn and as someone who's had the
Speaker 2: experience you've had, because again I just want to like, note,
Speaker 2: you were with someone for well over a decade, you've
Speaker 2: done you have this incredible like relationship experience under your
Speaker 2: belt now a little bit removed from the divorce moment,
Speaker 2: What advice would you give? What advice would you give
Speaker 2: yourself if you could go back and tell her anything,
Speaker 2: or anybody who might be in your position of they're
Speaker 2: in their thirties and like, I got divorced at thirty,
Speaker 2: what would you tell this person who's maybe in this
Speaker 2: middle place of like, well, oh, this big thing I
Speaker 2: thought was forever ended and now I'm kind of reinventing
Speaker 2: myself a little bit in my thirties.
Speaker 4: Oh I think that. I mean it is. It is
Speaker 4: like so difficult and it can be confusing, and I
Speaker 4: know that like for some people they have a lot
Speaker 4: more to consider, they have maybe like children or other
Speaker 4: things like that. But I think at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, like you have to I don't want to say,
Speaker 4: like choose yourself, but you know what's best for yourself,
Speaker 4: and you have like one life and if you try,
Speaker 4: if you looked at it and been like this is
Speaker 4: this is the kind of like marriage I want or
Speaker 4: partner I want. And you've expressed to that person that
Speaker 4: they're not showing up, and you've explored every option and
Speaker 4: you've given everything you can't like you got to choose
Speaker 4: us all. There's nothing more lonely or isolating than being
Speaker 4: in something like that. So I think just tuse yourself.
Speaker 2: Love that perfectly put succinct and perfect as the Katie
Speaker 2: Maloney delivery is. Thank you so much. I'm so glad
Speaker 2: we got to talk to you today, and thank you
Speaker 2: for doing the work out there on vander Pump Rules.
Speaker 4: For all of us.
Speaker 1: You are yeah, you are doing the work for all
Speaker 1: of us, and it was nice to meet you and
Speaker 1: you're an absolute treat. Truly appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you. I'm very glad that this happened finally.
Speaker 2: I know now we're going to go on a date
Speaker 2: night to Chili's tonight, expresso martini.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. I'm so glad we got to talk.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: Thank you to Katie Babe. Maybe we might need to
Speaker 3: set Katie up with someone.
Speaker 1: I think so, I felt, I felt that. I feel. Well,
Speaker 1: here's what's funny, and it's what makes the vander Pump
Speaker 1: show so good. Is the boys right that they're such
Speaker 1: boys their children?
Speaker 3: Oh you mean like not the met but the boys.
Speaker 1: The boys. The men are not men, they're boys. They're
Speaker 1: silly little boys. And the women you can just tell,
Speaker 1: like there's such an emotional intelligence. They're like they're operating
Speaker 1: at such a higher level. And that's most women and
Speaker 1: most men. I will agree to that. But it's just funny.
Speaker 1: That she is so thoughtful about where she is in
Speaker 1: her life and where she is as far as finding
Speaker 1: love again. And then you look at shorts and scand
Speaker 1: of all and they're like, bro, we should move in together.
Speaker 1: This will be awesome. We'll get bunk beds. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'll put up this poster like that's where they are.
Speaker 3: You're right, it is stepbrothers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then she's like, well, I thought about this.
Speaker 1: I'm really im worked on myself, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's just night and day.
Speaker 3: You're right.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because like at first, actually as we
Speaker 2: were doing the podcast, I was thinking, you know, I
Speaker 2: do think part of this is this group of friends
Speaker 2: has been in the same group since their early twenties,
Speaker 2: and I do think we as people, and I mean
Speaker 2: everybody you need to like meet new people, have different friends.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying don't hold on to your friends, but.
Speaker 2: You got to grow though, expose yourself to different people
Speaker 2: because that makes you forces you to grow as a person.
Speaker 2: And they it's the show, is their job, so they've
Speaker 2: kind of stayed in this group, and I think that
Speaker 2: can be a hindrance.
Speaker 3: But as you've just pointed out, the women have.
Speaker 2: Grown and the men have gone through the same stuff,
Speaker 2: but you're not hearing them make the same poignant observations
Speaker 2: and comments.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Peter Pan doesn't grow up.
Speaker 3: Well, luckily Wendy got out of there.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you everybody, and we'll talk to you next.
Speaker 1: Time because we have a lot more to talk about.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.