1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: when we explore some of the big many issues in 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: the world of sports. I'm Michael Blarne, I'm Scarlett, and 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: we are going to talk soccer. United Soccer League CEO 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: and chief real estate officer Justin Papa Docus is here 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: with us to talk about it. Well, let's let's break 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: it down here. I mean, first of all, the u 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: s L. You guys are competing with a lot of 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: other leagues, never mind overseas, we're talking about competing with 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: leagues here right in the United States. We we are competing. 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: But what we we what we try to do with 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: USL is we the top level soccer in our market. 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: And what we see is just an amazing growth of 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: is two things. People have passion for soccer, and they 15 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: have a passion for their community. And whether that's in 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: in Rhode Island or Des Moines or Milwaukee or Knoxville, 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: the passion for soccer in their community is real and 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: that's what's driving the just amazing growth of our league. 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: Can you put this into perspective for us? What is 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: USL relative to Major League Soccer or US Soccer? Which 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: is the nonprofit that oversees the men's national team and 22 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: the women's national team. So the US Soccer is the 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: governing body that oversees all of soccer in the States 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: from recreation all the way up to professional and the 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: World Cup that's happening in in a week or so. 26 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: The Federation also UM is the party that has the 27 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: US national team men's and women And so for non 28 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: soccer listeners, the that is the national team in the 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: States that goes and plays the national teams UH countries 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: around the world. The us L UM we operate at 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: the club level. Uh. So you know, think of you 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: know in the NBA you have the Chicago Bulls versus 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: the men's national team in bast Evolve. So uh, the 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: USL we we operate clubs all across the country. And 35 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: what's most exciting, guys, is this we see that we 36 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: have the World Cup coming here a couple of weeks. 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: The World Cup is coming down States and that will 38 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: bookend just a fantastic growth in sport. We brought the 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: World Cup here that dates for one specific reason, and 40 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: that was to foster the development in growth of soccer 41 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: in the United States. Fast forward, at the USL just 42 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: the USL will have over seventy professional men's teams and 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: probably an equivalent number um of women's teams UH and 44 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: billions of dollars of stadium infrastructure and millions of millions 45 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: of fans that come to our our our matches. In 46 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: addition to the USL, you also have the MLS on 47 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: the men's side and the NWUSL on the women's side. 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: So the u S celsis in a unique place in 49 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: that we're the only league to have both men's and 50 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: women's in addition to uh academies with you know, fifteen 51 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: or so thousands youth players under underneath our professional properties. 52 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: So justin USL serves as a youth to professional pathway. 53 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean, and clearly you've had some success there, right 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: because by my count, eleven USL alumni have recently been 55 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: named to the U S World Cup team in Cutter 56 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: this year, right, I mean, I'm talking Aaronson who leads 57 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean, what a goal he had earlier this year? Huh, 58 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: Adams for our turner, you know, talk to me about 59 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: the growth of the us L and how it intends 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: to kind of insert itself between as you point out, college, 61 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: recreational and professional and how are you kind of developing 62 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: players and getting them getting them to the next level. 63 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: This is one most exciting aspects about soccer and one 64 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: that at the world level they are viewing USL as 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: really the sleeping giant, and so the progress on. And 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: we have to separate the men's and the women's uh, 67 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: because we ship have two. You know, there's two different 68 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: situations there. On the men's side, we've we've now corrected 69 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: some structural flaws that we've had in developing professional players 70 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: and so at a high level. UM, historically, uh, you know, 71 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: our players have haven't played in a professional environment until 72 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: they graduated college. And that's not how it is in 73 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: the rest of the world where professional players, UM, you know, 74 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: they start training in professional environments. Uh, start starting at fourteen, fifteen, 75 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: sixteen years old and then getting professional minutes. What we're 76 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: most proud of at the USL is that, you know, 77 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: we now have thousands of playing jobs for players and 78 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: we're going to create um, at least another thousand on 79 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: the men's side over the next couple of years. On 80 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: the women's side, UM, you know, are our women's athletes 81 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: are the best in the world. They are the gold 82 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: standard and so despite that, and they've been able to 83 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: achieve that despite only having um two professional playing jobs 84 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: here in the United States. With the USL Super League, 85 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: we're going to quadruple that number over the next five 86 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: years and really importantly as well, will be the first 87 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: league of an equal pay structure for for our professional 88 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: men's and women's players. And so I think, whether on 89 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: the men's side or women's side, the future of soccer 90 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 1: is so bright here in the United States. And can't 91 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: wait for you know, our our men's players, uh to 92 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: you demonstrate the progress that we're making in the World 93 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: Cup in the next couple of weeks. Now, if someone 94 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: wants to watch this, because this kind of acts like 95 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: a gateway pipeline for soccer talent, can people watch this 96 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: on TV? I mean, I know old man bar here, Uh, 97 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: he'll you know, put up his rabbit ears and he 98 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: wants to see it on TV. Do you stream it 99 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: or or what do you do? So all of our 100 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: matches are on the men's side, Um, the women's side 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: will were in media negotiations right now. But on the 102 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: men's side, all of our matches are on E S, 103 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: T N plus. And then we have twenty or so 104 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: games on E S P N two. UM. So I 105 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: think one major difference that kind of gets to your question. 106 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: In all of other sports United States, you have a construct, 107 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: a major league and minor league construct, and so in 108 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: soccer we don't. We don't have that and so UM 109 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: one of the differences, UM again just to show that 110 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: why that contract doesn't exist, is the USL plays the 111 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: MLS in a tournament every year and so at the 112 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: final of the tournament this year, UM, it was one 113 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: mL l S team verse one USL team. Unfortunately we 114 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: we lost the game, but show it shows how competitive 115 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: the USL is UM against the MLS on the field 116 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: and then off the field. Uh. We are in major 117 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: growth mode in so many areas, but particularly you know, 118 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: we have about two billion dollars of stadium maker development 119 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: right now and we're gonna be adding at least another 120 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: two billion over the next year. So what we're again 121 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: really really proud of is that our communities and those 122 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: are you know, large communities relative to Europe. But in 123 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: the United States. You know, Knoxville were justin not the 124 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: club Knoxville. They care so much about Knoxville, UM, and 125 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: why they are part of Tennessee. Uh, they have their 126 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: own identity, and we're really about creating clubs that have 127 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: the identity of their community. And from Knoxville to Milwaukee, 128 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: this spocan, all these expansion clubs were building. Um the 129 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: support they're getting because they they're really built in the 130 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: reflection on their club. You know, that's why we hit 131 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: you know, three million people this year through our gates 132 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: and uh, I know we're gonna look to to double 133 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: that over the next over the next several years. Okay, 134 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: so very community based. You're also the chief real estate officer. 135 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: And I know that thirty one of the thirty professional 136 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: USL clubs this year played in stadium is built or 137 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: renovated for soccer. Can you walk us through what a 138 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: stadium built renovated for soccer looks like, what it means 139 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking here in New York, we've got a 140 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: soccer team, an MLS team that is looking for a 141 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: permanent home and kind of has to borrow other teams 142 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: and other sports venues. What does a stadium built specifically 143 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: for soccer require? I think, Uh, I'm the only chief 144 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: real estate officer in sports, and the reason for that 145 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: is that everything starts with the stadium, right, so, and 146 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: we think about the entire fan journey, So it's not 147 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: actually only the stadium, it's also the stadium entertainment districts 148 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: around it. And so this area of sports was really 149 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: developed here in the United States. When you look at 150 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: um L A Live and in the new SunTrust Park 151 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: down down in Atlanta and so many others. This is 152 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: where the United States has really led the world in 153 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: terms of creating holistic entertainment districts. And that's something that 154 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: is a huge part of USL because not only does 155 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: it create a great stadium for our fans and a 156 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: great atmosphere of our players, but we're also creating billions 157 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: of dollars of economic impact for our communities. We really 158 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: work with our city, county, and state partners to identify 159 00:09:55,320 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: land uh that for various reasons, and most times it's 160 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: in the urban core that has been underdeveloped. And the 161 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: reasons where it underdeveloped is that you just don't have 162 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: the callush you need all these You need people to 163 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: have bars in restaurants, and you need bars in restaurants 164 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: to have people. Stadiums for any sport. I mean, this 165 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: is not unique to us. It's not but what the 166 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: advantage that soccer has is that we really try to 167 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: make these multi use venues and so not only have 168 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: men's soccer and women's soccer, but concerts, high school football. UM, 169 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: we really try to make sure that this stadium is 170 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: used as much as possible. And the size of our footprint, UM, 171 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, five to fifteen thousand seats stadiums were able 172 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: to unlike an NFL stadium for instance, we can put 173 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: that we can assemble and really have an integrated uh 174 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: development that creates a fan journey, a fantastic fan journey, 175 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: and also creates you know, apartments, hotel, those bars and restaurants. 176 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: UH that really bring tremendous economic impact to our community. 177 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: So the U S s USL had twenty seven teams 178 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: this year, right, and this Sunday, if I'm not mistaken, 179 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: we've got the final matchup between San Antonio and Movie. 180 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: They'll talk to us about what your expectations are for viewership, 181 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: for turnout, I mean, you're gonna people traveling, I mean 182 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 1: and more importantly, how do you how would you evaluate 183 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: the success of that event? So success, Um, there's it's 184 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: been sold out the day after went on on sale. 185 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: So Uh, there's definitely gonna be a sellout and success. Really, 186 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: I think how we define success at the USL. You know, 187 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: we're kind of expecting to sell out our stadiums. Now, 188 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: what I love about soccer is the soundtrack to games, right, 189 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: and so we meager when we go to stadium, it's 190 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: not do we have people in seez is are people 191 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: sitting in their seats for most of the game. And 192 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: the electricity, the excitement, uh, the energy in our stadium 193 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: m that is what is really differentiates USL. We have 194 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: slightly smaller stadiums in the MLS, smaller stadiums in the NFL. 195 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: But as a fan in the us L stadium, the energy, 196 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: the passion, the excitement, we believe is second to none. 197 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: That's what you'll see in San Antonio, um, and that's 198 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: what you see all across the us L. And so 199 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: we know, well, great radius on ESPN and for US 200 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: it's we we hope it's a you know, great match 201 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: on the field because these two clubs, you know, really, 202 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: you know, really perform well. Justin Papadacus, the CE and 203 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: chief real estate office here for United Soccer League, I 204 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: love it. I love it. By the way, I'm sorry 205 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: Detroit City didn't make it but to the finals. But 206 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: that's all right, It's okay, it's it's I'm a homer, 207 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: don't worry, it's that shouldn't root in the phrase in 208 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: your home, paying your hopes on the lines and the 209 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: other football thank you, thanks, thank you, just if we 210 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: really do appreciate it. Thank you so much. So this 211 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: has me in the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. We 212 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: explore some of the big money issues in the world 213 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: of sports. I'm Michael bar I'm Scarlett So and you 214 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: can download this podcast and all of our podcasts because 215 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,239 Speaker 1: they air Monday, Wednesday and Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.