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Speaker 1: Loot for us.

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Speaker 2: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 2: listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails on straight

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Speaker 2: talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 3: Hey, what's going on? It is rad and welcome to

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Speaker 3: this episode of soft Rep Radio. As always, I have

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Speaker 3: to mention I have a merch store. We have a

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Speaker 3: soft Reap merch store. Go check it out on the

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Speaker 3: website at softwap dot com and just maybe pick up

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Speaker 3: something for you or for a loved one. Send a gift. Hey,

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Speaker 3: thanks for keeping our lights on. The other thing is

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Speaker 3: we have a book club, and I really want to

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Speaker 3: push that out there because reading is a really good

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Speaker 3: thing to do. So it's soft rep dot com Ford

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Speaker 3: slash Book hyphen Club. So rewind what I just said

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Speaker 3: and listened to soft rep dot com Forward slash Book

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Speaker 3: hyphen Club. Now today I have someone who has written

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Speaker 3: a book, an author. He's also served our country. His

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Speaker 3: name is Peter Fever and he is the former National

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Speaker 3: Security Council Member on Public Confidence in the Military. Am

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Speaker 3: I saying that correctly?

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Speaker 1: Well, I've written a book on public commtists in the military,

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Speaker 1: but my job at the White House was for strategic

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Speaker 1: planning and institutional reform. So I was headed the Strategic

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Speaker 1: Planning Cell in the Bush White House, and before that,

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Speaker 1: I was worked in the Clint administration in the Defense

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Speaker 1: Policy and Arms Control Directorate.

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Speaker 3: Right, and here it also says, let me just drop

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Speaker 3: this in that there is a brewing crisis within the

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Speaker 3: United States. Military recruitment and enlistments are down across multiple branches.

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Speaker 3: Countless veterans no longer want to see their family members

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Speaker 3: following in their footsteps and joined to serve. As the

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Speaker 3: nation's labor market remains pointly contested, becoming a new service

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Speaker 3: member isn't the same appealing option for long term financial

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Speaker 3: stability that once was, right, joining up, having these upfront

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Speaker 3: bonuses and all this opportunity. Talk to me a little

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Speaker 3: bit about what I just read to you.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is actually the fiftieth anniversary of the All

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Speaker 1: Volunteer Force, So fifty years ago this summer, the nation

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Speaker 1: chose to transition from a draft based form of military

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Speaker 1: service to one where they just had volunteers. Of course,

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Speaker 1: they're not true volunteers, they're recruited, encouraged to join. And

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Speaker 1: that all Volunteer force has lasted longer and worked better

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Speaker 1: than anyone thought. But we're seeing some of the strains,

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Speaker 1: and you identified some of them in what you just

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Speaker 1: said that there is it's getting harder and harder to

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Speaker 1: recruit folks. They're still meeting their targets on retention. So

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Speaker 1: people who are in are tending to stay, but we're

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Speaker 1: struggling to bring in new people. And so that's a

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Speaker 1: challenge for the US military as they shift from the

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Speaker 1: war on terror to meeting high intensity peer threats. But

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Speaker 1: all of this is happening against the backdrop of changing

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Speaker 1: public attitudes towards the military. And then that's really what

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Speaker 1: my book is about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the book is thanks for finishing for me, Thanks.

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Speaker 1: For your Service, The Causes and consequences of public confidence

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Speaker 1: in the US Military. That title thanks for your services,

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Speaker 1: that phrase that many of us have used. You know,

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Speaker 1: you go into the airport, you see somebody or you

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Speaker 1: learn that they're in the service or veterans, and you

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Speaker 1: might reflectively say thanks for your service. And often the

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Speaker 1: recipient of that may feel awkward by that. They may

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Speaker 1: may or may not want to be thanked or feel

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Speaker 1: you know, put on a pedestal in some way. So

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Speaker 1: the book looks really closely at public attitudes towards the

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Speaker 1: US military, and the premise or the basis of it

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Speaker 1: is this striking fact. As Americans, most of us don't

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Speaker 1: know much about the US military at all. Most of

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Speaker 1: us don't have personal connections to the military. We haven't

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Speaker 1: served ourselves, and increasingly we don't have family members who served.

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Speaker 1: But we all know one thing about the military, and

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Speaker 1: that is that the public seems to hold the military

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Speaker 1: in high regard as a high competence. That's what political

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Speaker 1: scientists call a social fact, something that everybody seems to know.

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Speaker 1: They don't know why, but they kind of know that

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Speaker 1: other people seem to hold the public in high regard.

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Speaker 1: I mean hold the military in high regard. It's high

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Speaker 1: regard at high remove. You know, it's thanks for your service.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you're doing it so I don't have to.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like someone who rounds up their receipt at

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Speaker 3: the local drive through to give to charity and then

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Speaker 3: they drive away for that extra thirty cents, saying, oh

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Speaker 3: I did my part today, so you know, instead of

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Speaker 3: driving the meals on wheels vehicle to the dude's house

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Speaker 3: to feed them, you know, going that extra Further, I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying everybody can do that. Some people have time

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Speaker 3: to go and volunteer or hands on, and we're grateful

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Speaker 3: for all of those helpers out there. But I would

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Speaker 3: say that USURREC United States Army Recruiting Command has a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a challenge. And I find that, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not always the football device at the fair that's

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Speaker 3: going to attract the individual to come and want to

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Speaker 3: join the military. And maybe if you're going to try

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Speaker 3: to pitch West Point and the football team, then you're

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Speaker 3: going to pull in that one dude that could throw

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Speaker 3: the football. But maybe if you brought out just some

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Speaker 3: dirty hum v's, some stinky canvas with some netting over

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Speaker 3: them and set them up. Hey, man, even have like

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Speaker 3: a little radar thing from the local National Guard you

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Speaker 3: to set up at the fair, you know, like something

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Speaker 3: like that, like oh wow, is this is what's all

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Speaker 3: this camouflage? What's that big conduit thing going into that

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Speaker 3: air conditioner? That's an air conditioner? You know, all these

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Speaker 3: different smells and the environment. Otherwise, somebody's sitting at usurrec

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Speaker 3: paying or excuse me, at somewhere high levels, paying for

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Speaker 3: these footballs and for like all these different NASCAR. Right,

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Speaker 3: let's talk about ROI per recruit, right, trying to get

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Speaker 3: them in the military. What's the ROI if you were

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Speaker 3: to work, it's around a quarter of a million dollars

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Speaker 3: per individual on advertising dollars. And that's taking the whole

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Speaker 3: aggregated amount of like NASCAR radio, now the Broadcasters Associations

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Speaker 3: of America, you know, like the FCC whatnot. Who runs

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Speaker 3: the radio? You have to give the military free airtime. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's a long well.

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Speaker 1: Part of this is valuable, setting aside whether it recruits

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Speaker 1: anyone into the military, because it at least introduces or

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Speaker 1: keeps the military in the minds in the general. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: they might not run in There's large sections of geographic

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Speaker 1: sections of the country where there's no military base within

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Speaker 1: hundreds of miles, and so they're just not likely to

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Speaker 1: run into the military. So the way that the military

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Speaker 1: is prominent in public sports and national celebrations and it

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Speaker 1: almost becomes something of a civil religion. And so there

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Speaker 1: is a function for that. But one reason why it

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Speaker 1: matters is that going to the heart of the recruiting.

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Speaker 1: The way people are recruited into the military is through

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Speaker 1: influencers people coaches, parents, uncles, aunts, whatever, who say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think going into the military might be a good

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Speaker 1: option for you. And public confidence in the military helps

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Speaker 1: promote influencers promoting others to join. That's why people are

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Speaker 1: worried because public confidence has dropped in the last several years.

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Speaker 1: And if public confidence declines, that's going to make recruiting

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Speaker 1: even more difficult as people begin to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I want you my beloved nephew or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I don't want you to go into the military. I'm

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Speaker 1: worried about sexual assault or what have you.

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Speaker 3: What do you think about this, Peter, let me throw

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Speaker 3: this so I've got friends. Let me just think a

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Speaker 3: little bit more on my background for you. I do

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Speaker 3: airsoft war games here in Utah on a large scale

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Speaker 3: where I have everybody from like a nine year old

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Speaker 3: to a ninety nine year old running out playing war

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Speaker 3: games with all the gear on. Right. It's a really

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Speaker 3: fun time, large scale sometimes small little operations that we do.

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Speaker 3: We love it all. But at that point you get

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Speaker 3: these folks that come out that want to join the military,

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Speaker 3: and then they step off from something so simple as

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Speaker 3: what we're doing out there, and then they go to

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Speaker 3: the National Guard. And so the National Guards are like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 3: I've got a lot of friends in the National Guards

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Speaker 3: through this exact thing I'm talking about, just playing some

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Speaker 3: war games. You know. They're like, how come you know

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Speaker 3: all these guys are joining the Guard? If they want

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Speaker 3: to put put two and two together, right, where's the

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Speaker 3: positive information coming from? Because a lot of folks say

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Speaker 3: I want to join the military to me and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: you should go guard. Why do I say don't go

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Speaker 3: active duty? Why do I say don't go reserves? Because

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Speaker 3: they take them away for like two years to some

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Speaker 3: place and they need to go. But Guard will still

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Speaker 3: deploy if it's needed, right, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I do. And let's be clear that the number one challenge,

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Speaker 1: by far and away, the biggest challenge for recruitment is

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Speaker 1: the condition of the civilian labor market. So if you

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Speaker 1: need to know only one fact, learn what is the

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Speaker 1: how easy it is it to get a job in

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Speaker 1: the civilian labor market. When it's easy, recruiters suffer when

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Speaker 1: it's hard. That's a good recruiting environment. So part of

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Speaker 1: the challenge that we're experiencing today is just the fact

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Speaker 1: that the labor market has been so tight for several years.

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Speaker 3: Yes it has, and some of that thing has been

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Speaker 3: just Rubik's cubed out of our control.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's one thing. The second thing is the pool,

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Speaker 1: the size of the folks who are eligible to serve,

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Speaker 1: and that pool is shrinking. People aren't meeting the conditions

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Speaker 1: on health. You know, they can't have felony convictions, they

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Speaker 1: have to pass the aptitude tests and so forth, and

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Speaker 1: only about twenty three to twenty seven percent of the

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Speaker 1: American youth actually are even meeting those criteria. And then

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Speaker 1: so that's you know, a shrinking pool. That's that's a challenge.

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Speaker 1: Obesity for instance.

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Speaker 3: Well even the same as pe then you know, like

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Speaker 3: when I would in junior high in the nineties, we

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Speaker 3: still had pees and you know, hit the showers right

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Speaker 3: and like calesthetics up and downs and everything.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, and here's two other two other challenges

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Speaker 1: that are significant, and that is the pandemic made it

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Speaker 1: difficult for recruiters to get into high schools because it

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Speaker 1: was yeah, it was lockdown.

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Speaker 3: They was a recruiter jumps in on your zoom class. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 3: anybody want to join the army?

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Speaker 1: If you think, if you think it's hard to learn,

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Speaker 1: you know, math on zoom, imagine trying to recruit something.

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Speaker 3: Oh man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's that. And then the last thing, which

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Speaker 1: is not widely known but is is a real challenge

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Speaker 1: for recruiters is that as national health records improve, then

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Speaker 1: the military finds out more about health issue, whether you,

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Speaker 1: for instance, have are taking certain riddle in and other

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Speaker 1: other kinds.

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Speaker 3: I've got That's what I was gonna say, is I've

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Speaker 3: got moms who've written prescriptions, gotten their kids prescriptions prior

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Speaker 3: right eighteen.

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Speaker 1: And it used to be the case that, you know,

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Speaker 1: recruiters had some wiggle room, they could waffle around those waivers,

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Speaker 1: but now all of that information is right there in

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Speaker 1: the file, and that makes it harder to get those waivers.

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Speaker 1: So those are the long pools on the tent. Those

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Speaker 1: are kind of things that we don't have much control over.

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Speaker 1: And I'm homing in on the what is not the

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Speaker 1: most important fact, but it's still a relevant one, and

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Speaker 1: that is the way the public thinks about the military.

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Speaker 1: That's important too, and we need to pay attention to

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Speaker 1: that because we as civilians are unwittingly undermining public confidence

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Speaker 1: in the military by dragging the military into partisan culture wars.

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Speaker 1: So we've made I've got this modest proposal I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to get both sides to agree to. That's treat the

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Speaker 1: uniformed military as non combatants in the culture war. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you have a culture war, you have an argument. Those

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Speaker 1: are legit policy disputes. Are you civilian to the civilian, republican.

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Speaker 3: To the uniform out of it, we don't.

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Speaker 1: Shoot at the military, but right now we're shooting at

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Speaker 1: the military, and we're making the military of the target.

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Speaker 1: And that has the effect of politicizing the military by

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Speaker 1: dragging it into partisan politics.

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Speaker 3: Completely. And we're seeing that today. You know, I don't

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Speaker 3: usually like to date my shows, you know, because I

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Speaker 3: like people have this like timeless classicis But I mean,

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Speaker 3: you got a book coming out Thanks for your Service.

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Speaker 3: It's that time of year, and right now you've got

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Speaker 3: people holding out on the aisle for getting our generals

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Speaker 3: elected and uh confirmed excuse me, yeah, I'm so apologize.

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Speaker 3: It's frustrating, right, and I'm sure my listeners all aware

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Speaker 3: of it, and it's and it's and it's really harming

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Speaker 3: our talent. It's really like why would someone want to

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Speaker 3: have to put all of this time to go to school,

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Speaker 3: all of this time to learn strategic planning, put all

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Speaker 3: this time into West Point, just to be put on

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Speaker 3: hold if they ever get the shot.

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Speaker 1: Right, And it's not just one individual.

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Speaker 3: Right, hundreds thousands.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's hundreds of individuals. But each individual is also

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Speaker 1: a family, right right, and they can't their family is

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Speaker 1: on hold, they can't move, they can't start school, and

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Speaker 1: each one of them is sitting in a job that

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Speaker 1: someone else is supposed to go into. So it has

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Speaker 1: a second order effect.

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Speaker 3: Of correct that they move up, they move up.

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Speaker 1: Right, and their families and so it's reaching thousands of

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Speaker 1: you know, individual humans, even though it's only only I

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Speaker 1: say only, it's several hundred, now close to three hundred.

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Speaker 3: And these politicians are going to think that these military

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Speaker 3: men and women who'd sworn oath to the nation of

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Speaker 3: the US of USA. That's what it says on their

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Speaker 3: name tape. US. It doesn't say anything else. It says

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Speaker 3: US Army, US Marine Corps, US Coast Guard, you know,

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Speaker 3: US Air Force, US Space Force. Yes, Yes, there we go, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean, come on, man, you know these guys are

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Speaker 3: sitting here looking at you like, what are you doing?

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Speaker 3: What are you doing? What are you doing? Who's holding

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Speaker 3: up the Tubberville? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 3: Are you picking up a spear? Are you going to war?

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Speaker 1: Let me be clear, there's a legitimate policy dispute at

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Speaker 1: the root of it, and so you know, Senator Tuberville, first,

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Speaker 1: he has the prerogative to do this, but he also

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Speaker 1: has you know, it's part of his job as senator

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Speaker 1: to argue the policy. My proposal is argue the policy,

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Speaker 1: have the vote on the policy, but don't target the

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Speaker 1: military in order to achieve the policy debate.

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Speaker 3: That's the point and the reason why he's even doing

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Speaker 3: this is because he wants abortions to not be favored

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Speaker 3: to women, to personnel who need to go have the

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Speaker 3: procedure in a place where they didn't choose to be,

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Speaker 3: but they're serving, and so they have the right to

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Speaker 3: go to wherever they need to go. But he's saying

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Speaker 3: you don't have that right. He is saying that, he's

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Speaker 3: saying he doesn't want to he doesn't want to confirm

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Speaker 3: these generals until they take that out of the entire situation.

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Speaker 3: And they're going off of this whole you know, urban dictionary,

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Speaker 3: woke definition out there that's like just made up by themselves.

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Speaker 3: This is all made up. You know, I'm on the ground,

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Speaker 3: I'm forty five years old. It's all these guys that

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Speaker 3: are just like saying these words that don't have any

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Speaker 3: They're just making up this like what am I trying

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Speaker 3: to say? This narrative?

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Speaker 1: Well, the generals and flag officers that are currently being

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Speaker 1: having their confirmations held did not make the policy. The

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Speaker 1: Biden political appointees made the policy. So the argument is

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Speaker 1: between correct publics and Congress and.

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Speaker 3: The executive and the les the branches.

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Speaker 1: That's where they're the ones that are going to have

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Speaker 1: to sort this out. But in the meantime, both sides

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Speaker 1: in effect are you know, hurting the US military. The

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Speaker 1: uniform military are not resolving this, and of course the

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Speaker 1: people who are suffering. I mean, the long downstream consequences

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Speaker 1: are that the military will be less rich to meet

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Speaker 1: the national security threats. If we lived in a benign

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Speaker 1: time when we didn't really need the military and we

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Speaker 1: weren't facing serious challenges, and maybe we you know, the

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Speaker 1: consequences wouldn't matter all that much. But precisely because it's

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Speaker 1: a dangerous time. This is a very risky maneuver to

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Speaker 1: be doing, to be playing politics with the military promotions

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Speaker 1: this way. But it's not just the promotions, all of

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Speaker 1: the debates about you know what, it's called diversity, equity,

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Speaker 1: and inclusion. That term just now has become a trigger

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Speaker 1: term and it doesn't mean what it may have meant originally.

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Speaker 1: Here's the facts. We have to recruit from all walks

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Speaker 1: of life. We can't just recruit people who look like

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Speaker 1: you and me. First of all, that happen to get

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Speaker 1: a haircut.

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Speaker 3: No, No, I've been lost in Afghanistan. I'm a peronel. Now,

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Speaker 3: it's been twenty years. I've been lost with my unit. Right.

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Speaker 1: But the point is they can't just recruit from one

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Speaker 1: subset of the Americans. They need to recruit across the board.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a color palette. All walks of please.

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Speaker 1: And all walks of life have to be able to

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Speaker 1: work together and get along with their differences and learn

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Speaker 1: how to put mission first. All of that requires socialization effort.

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Speaker 1: The military has learned how to do this, but they've

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Speaker 1: done this by not ignoring the elephants in the room.

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Speaker 1: And when they did, in the you know, they took

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Speaker 1: a while.

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Speaker 3: Where Colon Powell really kind of kicked off, you know,

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Speaker 3: the don ask hotel to allow everybody just to be

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Speaker 3: in the military and don't ask it, don't tell Okay

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Speaker 3: that he was an advocate for that community to say

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Speaker 3: let's have this in place.

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Speaker 1: That was a compromise from the nineteen nineties. It was

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Speaker 1: very controversial at the.

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Speaker 3: Time, that's right, and it was a.

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Speaker 1: Change from what had gone before. But take the issue

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Speaker 1: of race. You know, this is also so the seventy

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Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of the Executive Order nine nine to eighty

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Speaker 1: one that Truman did to integrate it. Before yeah, before

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight, we had African Americans serving, but they

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Speaker 1: had to serve in black only.

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Speaker 3: Units, segregated units, segregated.

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Speaker 1: Units, and that you know, was recognized as an approach

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Speaker 1: that would not work in the long run. It was

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Speaker 1: undermining military effectiveness. And as you you know, as Truman

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Speaker 1: looks to the future in a Cold war, he's going

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Speaker 1: to need to tap the full strength, and so he did.

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Speaker 1: But here's the crucial point. Just merely signing the order

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Speaker 1: didn't take away the problem of race in the military.

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Speaker 1: It actually took several decades of tough work, and there

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Speaker 1: were times we had race riots in the military in

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Speaker 1: the late sixties early seventies, real racial strife within the units,

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Speaker 1: and it you know, there's still some concerns about racism

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Speaker 1: in the military even today. You talk to men and

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Speaker 1: women of color who serve and their experience is a

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Speaker 1: little different from the experience of say, white soldiers, and

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Speaker 1: so it's still an issue today that has to be addressed.

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Speaker 1: Of course, with the militaries made leaps and bounds progress.

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Speaker 3: I could never imagine it not being, you know, such

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Speaker 3: a colorful unit. When I was in my squadron. It

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Speaker 3: was just like I met Shytown from Shytown, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was like I would never I could never imagine

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Speaker 3: not being friends and having all of these comrades and

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Speaker 3: you know, fellow soldiers and airmen next to me from

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Speaker 3: everywhere because they accepted me.

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Speaker 1: Right well, and and just you know, go back to

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Speaker 1: the Korean War, so just a few years after the

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Speaker 1: integration through in order, the Marines are fighting the rearguard

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Speaker 1: action and Chosen reservoir and chosen and it's it's one

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Speaker 1: of the great you know, heroic tales of the US

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Speaker 1: Marine Corps. They couldn't achieved that without the integrated units

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Speaker 1: that they had from just a few years before. And

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Speaker 1: so when you're in the foxhone, you're being shot at,

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Speaker 1: you know, all you care about is that the person

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Speaker 1: next to you has got your back, and so the

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Speaker 1: person next to you has to have your back. And

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Speaker 1: if they're poisoned by whatever, you know, bias or prejudice,

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Speaker 1: then that's a problem for you and for the unit.

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Speaker 1: But if they are mission first, then then the race is.

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Speaker 3: Secondary a hundred and again that goes back to like

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Speaker 3: the draft and conscription. Right, wouldn't you say that's kind

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Speaker 3: of the same thing where you're goind of getting forced

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Speaker 3: to join a military is conscription? Right, here's my.

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Speaker 1: View on the draft. Yeah, I think it's a cure

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Speaker 1: that's worse than the disease.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if you say, well, we I'm worried that Americans

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Speaker 1: have not come together, Let's have a draft to bring

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Speaker 1: Americans together.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that works.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it works. That's not been that was

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Speaker 1: not the experience.

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Speaker 3: For patriotism is not. Yeah, all volunteer army military where

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Speaker 3: you want to go and do it, you're like wholeheartedly

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Speaker 3: in it. I choose to do this. That's a patriot well,

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Speaker 3: and the.

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Speaker 1: And the factors that are all volunteer force is much

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Speaker 1: more capable, much more competent, much more professional than was

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Speaker 1: the draft. They want to be there, and we expect

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Speaker 1: our US military today to fight according to the laws

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Speaker 1: of war, to meet a standard that the draft army

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Speaker 1: just never could meet. And they didn't fight that way.

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Speaker 1: It couldn't fight that way.

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Speaker 3: Are you speak like the Geneva Convention.

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Speaker 1: Style, Yes, well, not targeting, so okay, and of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, not committing war crimes, et cetera. And our

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Speaker 1: current force is far more professional because there's so much

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Speaker 1: better trained and they're able to use high tech weapons

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Speaker 1: that are more precise rather than the you know, area

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Speaker 1: blanket of bombing that was the case.

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Speaker 3: In just the brutal aspect of like you know, trench

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Speaker 3: warfare or you know.

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Speaker 1: That that requires the professional military that we have. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I prefer making the all volunteer force viable

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Speaker 1: and then solving the problem of national civic pride through

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Speaker 1: some other way. I'm open to the national service and

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Speaker 1: opportunities to serve, but a military draft is a cure

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Speaker 1: that's worse than the disease unless we meet you know,

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Speaker 1: some you know World War three situation where now we

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Speaker 1: need everybody.

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Speaker 3: So Terminator is here, yeah, you know, and it's you know,

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Speaker 3: it's it's coming to life, right. The movies from the eighties,

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Speaker 3: these guys that are getting older are like, how do

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Speaker 3: I win my war? I need terminators? I need something crazy? Man,

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Speaker 3: we got it? What video was that? Blade Runner? What

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Speaker 3: are we? How are we gonna do it? Man?

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Speaker 1: Come on, you need the Wolverines from Red Dawn?

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Speaker 3: So oh please Wolverines all day? Huh, all day? Go ahead,

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Speaker 3: go back to town, you go to your daddy, go

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Speaker 3: on the sideline.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you'll have me back for this. But I teach

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Speaker 1: a course with General Dempsey, the retired Chairman of the

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Speaker 1: Joint Jesus Staff.

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Speaker 3: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I teach your course here called American Grand Strategy through Film.

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Speaker 1: And I taught that. I teach the course because my

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Speaker 1: students were not getting my references to Red Dawn and

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, the average undergrad hasn't watched Red Don

435
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: and so I said, that does it. I'm teaching a

436
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: course that will require you to watch Red Don and

437
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: many other movies.

438
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 3: Oh, I've had Darren Dalton on the show from Red Dawn.

439
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 3: He plays Daryl, the mayor's son. He's like, uh, a

440
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 3: student body president. I elect that we all go back

441
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 3: to town and gives ourselves up.

442
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: It's a.

443
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 3: Oh he did. Oh yes, Thomas, No, is it a

444
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 3: different subject?

445
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: Is it? Though?

446
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 3: Is Red don a different subject?

447
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: Is it?

448
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: Though? Really? No, you're great. I would love to have

449
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: you back on, and uh you can even bring uh

450
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 3: General Dempsey on and we can have a three way

451
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 3: here and just we could talk about it. Because I

452
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 3: just had some guys on the other day, former Ranger,

453
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 3: former Green Beret, and they have a show called Shift

454
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 3: Fire on YouTube and they'll pause movies. I said, well,

455
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: right there, that backlast from the RPG probably would have

456
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: killed everybody in the POWs of Rambh. Let's keep playing it.

457
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 3: Uh huh oh and then he wakes you.

458
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, a lot of problems with those kinds of movies,

459
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: and especially the Ramba. We watched the Rambo movie and

460
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: that you know it when he shoots down a helicopter

461
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: with a bow and arrow. It's a little you.

462
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: Know, oh man though, but he does that draw on

463
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: it so beautiful man on that rock, it's like, you

464
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 3: know what's going at.

465
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: It anyway, Well believe aggress But let me bring it

466
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: back to the topic. Because increasingly what the average American

467
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: knows about the military may come from movies, right, right,

468
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: So the military can't ignore Hollywood, and of course it doesn't.

469
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 1: It works closely with Hollywood to try to get its

470
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: message out, and that's right. It should do so because

471
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: for many Americans that's their connection to the military. They

472
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: they see the military, you know, before an NFL football

473
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: game on TV, and they go to a movie Top Gun,

474
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: Maverick or something, and that tells them what they think

475
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: they know about the military. And so that's a concern

476
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: we public confidence of the military is a function of

477
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: how much your personal connection is to the military. People

478
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: with a personal connection or who know more about the

479
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: military have higher confidence in the military as well.

480
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: I have some pretty high confidence in them.

481
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's because you have personal connections.

482
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: I sure do. I sure do. Now with thanks for

483
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: your service, are you referencing you know, folks that come

484
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 3: back from you know, their time over there and they

485
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 3: have the same perspective that actually happened to them and

486
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: occurred over there, or they kind of like exaggerate on

487
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: what took place to them even though they already were

488
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 3: wounded anything like that.

489
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: So that's not the book doesn't look into that. But

490
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: I know what you're you're talking about. That's there's a

491
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: whole other field of study that looks at what's the

492
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: experience of war and combat on the individual, and then

493
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: what's it like for them to go back to civilian

494
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: society and to imagine I mean all the way back

495
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: to Homer's Odyssey, Right, that's what that's about. This is

496
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: a a longstanding concern in Western literature, and I teach

497
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: about that in other courses, But that's not what the

498
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: focus of.

499
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 3: This book is on that. No, Nope, and sow. So

500
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: the public confidence in the military impacts the enrollment numbers,

501
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: and then our foreign policy initiatives and defense spending are

502
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 3: also involved. I mean, if they're going to try to

503
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: cut defense spending from the military, won't that make me

504
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 3: feel like if I'm trying to join, then there might

505
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 3: not be enough for me to get paid.

506
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 1: Well, you're right. People with higher confidence of the military

507
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: are also more likely to support defense spending, right, And

508
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: people who have higher confidences of the military are more

509
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: likely to trust the military tool in a foreign policy crisis.

510
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: So the attitude is linked to all these other attitudes

511
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: that people care about as well. Now sometimes too much confidence, right.

512
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we do in America

513
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: is we use the military when we don't think we

514
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: have a civilian tool that could handle it, when there

515
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: should be civilian tools. Like a good example is this

516
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: is in the COVID crisis, they were going to ask

517
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: the military to distribute the vaccines. Well, that doesn't require

518
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: any military expertise, that was just we have a crisis.

519
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: The military is our only institution that works. Let's ask

520
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: the military to you know, take over and distribute the vaccines.

521
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: And that can sometimes backfire by taking the military out

522
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: of where they are best used and putting them in

523
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: situations where you know they're not well trained for. And

524
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: a good example of that is when you're trying to

525
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: bring the military in for law enforcement and crowd control.

526
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: That's while they get some training for that and the

527
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: National Guard gets more training for that, that's really a

528
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: law enforcement function and it's not good to bring the

529
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: military into that. Every time the military has been dragged

530
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: into one of those settings, it's not gone well.

531
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: No, because they blend in with each other. Because the

532
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 3: uniform that the police wear today was denied years ago

533
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 3: when it was offered to the military. And then the

534
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: military said we're going to rock this ACU pattern in

535
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: the army and the Marines had their marpat and so

536
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: the civilians were like, well, we have this pattern that

537
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: we have to sell, this multi cam patterns that we

538
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: have to sell. So they start selling it to law enforcement,

539
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: civilians and hunters and all this kind of stuff. Air

540
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 3: Softwares were really buying it. So now it's on the

541
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: civilian market, and now you have police departments and swat

542
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: teams wearing multi cam okay.

543
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: And it's blurring the distinction, correct, And.

544
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 3: Now you have people saying we need to defund defund

545
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: but the police and all this kind of stuffcause where

546
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 3: they getting it. But it's really demilitarized, see, because they

547
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: get access to It's not so much they have all

548
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: this money these departments need to be defunded. It's that

549
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 3: they wrote off requisites to get old surplus that are

550
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: drmos getting rid of through the military, which is a

551
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: warehouse of old vehicles and gear and night vision and

552
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: all that stuff that the war no longer needs and

553
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: it's getting thrown away. So instead of throwing it away,

554
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: they say, hey, write us a letter and we'll send

555
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: you some stuff to your departments. And so you get

556
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: like a three cop department in like say somewhere southern Utah.

557
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: Here that's just all of a sudden, now got fourteen

558
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 3: m force, an m RAP and a bunch of combat

559
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff, and maybe two of those guys

560
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: on that team are veterans from the military. And so

561
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: now you get those guys wearing their multicams, okay, because

562
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 3: that's a civilian pattern. And then they get these vehicles

563
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: in these things that were tan at the soul or green,

564
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: and they paint them black so it looks civilian. But

565
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 3: then you put the same guy who has the heartbeat

566
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: of driving that thing in that thing, how can he

567
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: not be military already and try to uphold the law. Right,

568
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: So go ahead.

569
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: And one of the things that the polls show is

570
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: that these distinctions which mean something to experts like you,

571
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: but blurred and lost in the general public as a whole, right,

572
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: because they'll just the public doesn't really draw sharp distinctions

573
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: between Army, Air Force or regular versus guard versus reserve.

574
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: The public doesn't even draw much of a distinction between

575
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: current and retired. The public doesn't know who's retired or not.

576
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: And in retirement, the senior officers, they keep their rank, right,

577
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: you're a retired. If you're a retired general, your first.

578
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: General general the rest of your life the general, I'm like, oh, hey,

579
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: what's that general? Still general?

580
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: Exactly? And so that speaks to yet a different issue,

581
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 1: which is that the professional norms that we ask the

582
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: active duty to live by, we must also be encouraging

583
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: the retired to live by as well. And this is

584
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: a problem because retired, of course, have more civil rights

585
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: than the active duty. Active duty. A lot of Americans

586
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: don't know this. Active duty don't have the same First

587
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: Amendment rights that you and I have. They are restricted

588
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: in what they can say. In particular, they can't speak

589
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: ill of the president as commander in chief. That would

590
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: be an Article eighty eight violation of the of their

591
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 1: Uniform Code of Military Justice. So they have to be careful.

592
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: But then you get retired military whose first name is

593
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: still admiral or general going on TV and lace, you know,

594
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: and speaking in the most bitter partisan terms, and that

595
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: creates confusion in the public, and it helps to politicize

596
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: the military. So your point about you know, fine distinctions

597
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: and bluring those lines is it's exactly right. They the

598
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: public is not seeing that, and so that's incumbent on

599
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: the military and retired community to say, we're going to

600
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,239
Speaker 1: hold ourselves to a higher standard, and otherwise we're going

601
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: to be dragging the military down. The non partisan active

602
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: duty force, which has to obey the president no matter

603
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: who he or she is, we're gonna be dragging that

604
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: into the partisan monk.

605
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: And just to piggyback on that uniform conversation, I was

606
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: just mentioning, you know, years later multi that color, that

607
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: pattern was adopted finally by the Army, right, and then

608
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 3: the Army is now using it today, and so is

609
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: the Air Force. And so you get these guys. If

610
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: you have a law enforcement team and then the Army

611
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: or air Force together, they're just gonna look like one unit.

612
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: Right, right. Yeah, And this is a this is a challenge,

613
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: and we ran into this in twenty.

614
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: Twenty with the protests and the whole night, yeah.

615
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: And trying to maintain civil order.

616
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: It was a challenge, and so even General Millie said,

617
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: I would never have walked out there in my uniform

618
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: if I knew that I was being walked out there

619
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: in my uniform like that. He's like, I would not

620
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 3: have crossed the line of the US because with respect

621
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: to you and to others that I have on the

622
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: show who have that kind of rank, I asked them,

623
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: how do you stay for one, you know, like one

624
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: brand like the Bush to the Clinton's, how do you

625
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: stay that way? And one one general said, Brad, it

626
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: says us right here, and that's why I quote it.

627
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: I say US army, US, you know us. It says us.

628
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: Well, our military officers they sign an oh or not signed.

629
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: They they give an oath of allegiance to the Constitution,

630
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: not to the President of the United States or not

631
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: to an individual. Now, of course, by registring an oath

632
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: to obey the Constitution, that means they will obey the

633
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: president's commander in chief when he gives a lawful order.

634
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: So of course it has direct implications of how they

635
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: interact with any individual president. But their loyalty is not

636
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: to that person, to that individual, it's to the office

637
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: as reflected under the Constitution. And this is an important

638
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: distinction that the uniform military have drilled in them. They

639
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: understand that. But you know who doesn't understand that so well.

640
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: Civilian civilian population, well.

641
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: Civilian population, but even civilian politicians.

642
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 3: That's what I yeah, yeah, I agreed, Yeah, the people

643
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 3: that become the boss.

644
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's very hard. If you're you know,

645
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: a civilian political leader, those ideas blur in your mind.

646
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: You know.

647
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: I once asked my dad. I said, Dad, you know,

648
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: how come we don't just elect all veterans? And he

649
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: was just like, well, Aaron, you don't really want to

650
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 3: have the military running the whole show, right, That's what

651
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 3: he told me. As a younger man, I had asked

652
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: them that, like, how come you know we're all great?

653
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: You know, the perception is perfect, and how come veterans

654
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 3: aren't just every congressman's a veteran or whatever. What's your

655
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 3: thoughts on that same thing? My dad mentioned, So, I.

656
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: Think it's good for veterans to run. I think if

657
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: the percentage of veterans is too low, then you lose

658
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: a certain amount of awareness and you know, knowledge base.

659
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why I like veterans in Congress,

660
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: in the executive branches veterans will hold the military accountable.

661
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: So some people might think, well, if their veterans are

662
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: going to go easy on the military, No, because their

663
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: veterans they'll go harder. Senator McCain was ruthless in holding

664
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: their military accountable precisely because he had served and new

665
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: So I think there's value in it. But I think

666
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: veterans may overstate the value in it. And many people

667
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: run for office thinking, well, because I served, that makes

668
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: me a good politician. Not necessarily. If the only thing

669
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: you've got going for you is your heroic military service,

670
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: then chances are you won't do well as a civilian

671
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: political leader because it is a different skill set. And

672
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: of course we had we've had generals who were very

673
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: capable presidents, General Washington, President Washington, General Eisenhower, President Eisenhower.

674
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: What they both had in common, though, was they were

675
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: exceptionally able political figures even while they were in military office.

676
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: They weren't partisan, they were not partisan, but they had

677
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: political skills. That's why Eisenhower was chosen for his job.

678
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: It was his political skills as opposed to his combat

679
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: skills that made him, you know, the five star commander

680
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: that he was. That was political skills also translated into

681
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: being a good president. And so it's not the case

682
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: that every veteran will be a good political leader. But

683
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: I do want some of our political leaders to be veterans.

684
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: And it's also the case that when you run for office,

685
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: you become a partisan.

686
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: So what do you mean by that? What do you

687
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 3: mean by that? Yeah, tell me what you mean by that.

688
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: Well, here's the point I'm trying to make. I want veterans,

689
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: particularly senior retired you know, four stars, retired four stars.

690
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: I want them not to be in the business of

691
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: endorsing candidates for president. You know the spectacle every four years,

692
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: the Republicans trot out their list, the Democrats trot out

693
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: their list. This is not a good look. This politicizes

694
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: the military. These are retired for stars. They have the

695
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: right to do this, so that's not the issue. But

696
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 1: it's not the right thing for them to do, because

697
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: it's trading on the status that the military, as a

698
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: non partisan institution, has to endorse a president and to

699
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: say this president, not that president's politicizes the military. But

700
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: if you run for office, okay, now you're no longer

701
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: trying to keep one toe as a non partisan. You

702
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: are a partisan, so you run for office now you're

703
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: a Republican or a Democrat, and that's okay. So crossing

704
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: all the way over running as a veteran, that's okay.

705
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: But trying to say, well, I'm going to keep all

706
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: the privileges that come from being a non partisan, but

707
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do this very partisan act of

708
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: endorsing this or that candidate. That's where the problem is.

709
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: And it makes the job of the current military that

710
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: much harder. And so that's why it's it's striking every

711
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: chairman of the Joint Chiece of Staff, going back to

712
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: Admiral Mullen, they've made a priority saying let's try to

713
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: get the military out of the endorsement business because they

714
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: worry that it will undermine it will politicize the military,

715
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: and then undermine public confidence in the military.

716
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 3: No, one hundred percent, and that's our show. No, No,

717
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 3: that's great. No, it's true. You're you're so well spoken.

718
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 3: That was just really great. You know. Uh, it does

719
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 3: politicize it, it does put the spotlight like hey, now,

720
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, like this general says something and

721
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: that whole entire establishment is under his control. Still but

722
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: he's retired, and you know.

723
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: And am the average American might be thinking, Aha, I

724
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: bet this is what the active duties force would say

725
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: if they were allowed to. But if that's the case,

726
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: now we've got the active duty force in the election,

727
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: you know, as a partisan actor. Not good, because the

728
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: active duty force has to obey whoever wins, even if

729
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: it's not quote unquote their candidate. And this is something

730
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: that we have an extraordinarily proud record in the United

731
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: States of the military remaining subordinate to civilian control regardless

732
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: of who wins. And even if the new guy comes

733
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: in and changes all the policies, they salute, obey, and

734
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: implement it. That precious thing. And we shouldn't take it

735
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: for granted or play loose with it.

736
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 3: Officers and enlisted, you know, still have the duty to

737
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: themselves to disobey an immoral order, that illegal order, illegal order, right,

738
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: like right? I mean if they Tom.

739
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: Tells an important distinction.

740
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: Let no, you know, okay, so in illegal order, right,

741
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: So tell me the difference between the illegal and immoral.

742
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: You know that they have to follow.

743
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 1: The difference is the lawyers. So the lawyers think about

744
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: this legal immoral unwise. So illegal, immoral, unwise. Our system

745
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: requires that the military not carry out an illegal order,

746
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: but they are supposed to carry out in order they

747
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: deem to be immoral or unwise if it's illegal, and

748
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: if they have a question, you know, is this legal

749
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: or illegal? Okay, that's what the jag is for the lawyer,

750
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: the military lawyer. The military lawyer will say, sir, we

751
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: can't do that. That's illegal, that's against the laws of war. Okay,

752
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to carry it out. If they carry

753
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: out an illegal order, they could be court martialed. But

754
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: if they refuse to carry out in order they deemed

755
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: to be immoral or unwise, they could also be court

756
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: martial And let me give you an example of a

757
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: of you know, a boundary example. Take the order of

758
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: President Biden's order to withdraw from Afghanistan no matter what,

759
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: no matter what the consequences. Many people, and you know,

760
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: I was one of them, thought this was an unwise

761
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: decision by the president, that it was going to hurt America,

762
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: hurt American interests. I thought we should have stayed at

763
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: the low level we were in Afghanistan. Many other people

764
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: also thought it was an immoral decision because it broke

765
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 1: faith with the Afghans who had sacrificed, and it broke

766
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: faith with those who had died, you know, Americans who

767
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: had died on the mission, because he just you know,

768
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: sort of abandoned the Afghan government to their faith. And

769
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: of course the Taliban won in May. We can argue

770
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: about whether it was unwise, we can argue about whether

771
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: it was immoral, but it was legal. He had the

772
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: legal authority to order it, and so General Milly and

773
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: the rest of the true did the right thing. They

774
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: advised the president that said, we don't think this is good, sir,

775
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: you should think about it a second or third time.

776
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: Presidents that I have, I'm gonna do it. Okay, they

777
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: didn't like it, they thought it was unwise, and many

778
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: of them were disturbed by what the consequences were. But

779
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: they carried it out. And that's what civilian control in

780
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: a democracy means. So illegal orders the military must not

781
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: carry them out. But orders that are they think are

782
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: immoral or unwise, those they have to carry out.

783
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a tough job, absolutely, yeah, And.

784
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: This is why you need to have very highly trained,

785
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: yes military, and that's why we need the all launch job.

786
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: You know, just the thought of, you know, that whole

787
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 3: situation and having to Millie the guy to call. He's like,

788
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: what's up, sir, sir? We have some people, sir, And

789
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 3: he's probably saying, I know, but what else can we do?

790
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: And they went back to be a fly on the wall.

791
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: Holy cow, you know, thoughts in the minds at night

792
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: when you're going to bed, you know, when you're trying

793
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: to make your ultimate business decisions, you're like.

794
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: Well, he served during in a very extraordinary time. So

795
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: them's had and you know, the last six months of

796
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: the Trump administration very challenging time to be chairman, and

797
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: of course the last two years also a challenging time.

798
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 3: He's a Green Beret, though, I believe well a college.

799
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: Of mine Corey Shockey and I like to say you

800
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: should judge a chairman of the Joint Us of Staff

801
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 1: the way you judge Olympic diving. That is, they get

802
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: points for the difficulty of the dive that they have

803
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: to do. They kick up a little splash, but it's

804
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: a very difficult dive. Okay, still we're going to grade

805
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: them high because it's a very difficult dive.

806
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's like forty meters up, you're gonna go back?

807
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: Oh man, I know you don't want to date the podcast,

808
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: but you know, right now, the Senate is considering whether

809
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: to confirm C. Q. Brown, who is President Biden's appointee

810
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: or nominee, I should say, to be Chairman of the

811
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: Joint Chiefs of Staff, and he I think is a

812
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: strong choice. He is a combat veteran. He he's an

813
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: Air Force pilot, and I think it's actually good just

814
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: to rotate the chairmanship across the services. It's been a

815
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: while since we've had an Air Force leaders and he's

816
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: really focused on accelerating the transition of the Air Force,

817
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: modernizing to meet, you know, the next gen threats. So

818
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: he's got a strong focus on that. And he's just

819
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: a down the middle kind of guy. You know, I

820
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: think that will calm some of the waters with the

821
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: waters have been roiling. Yeah, and General Brown is kind

822
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: of a straight, down the middle kind of guy.

823
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 3: What would get him not what would get him confirmed?

824
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 3: Right now? How can we what would get him to

825
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 3: be that? Who has to pass that?

826
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting Senator Tuberville has a hold on

827
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: him right now. But Tuberville himself indicated that he thought

828
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: he'd be a good candidate and would vote for him

829
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: once he lifts his own hold on him. So I

830
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 1: think the Congress recognizes that this is a good choice,

831
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 1: a good choice for America. They just we just got

832
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: to get the holds lifted so that the Congress the

833
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: Senate can vote on it. It's the Senate's got to

834
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: do it's job.

835
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 3: So with the Senate and the Congress and you serving

836
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 3: in a national position, you know, under different administrations, do

837
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 3: you think that you're going to be back up to

838
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 3: bat at the White House or anything like that. Do

839
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 3: you foresee that? Do you want that? Do you want that?

840
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: Well, this is the old Woody Allen joke. Do I

841
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: want to join any club that would have me for

842
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: a member? You know? So if the president asked you

843
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: to serve, then you serve. And I if any president

844
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: asked me to serve, I would I would probably serve,

845
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 1: regardless of the party and regardless of the president. And

846
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, I was one of those folks who saw

847
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: and a lot of letters saying that they would not

848
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: vote for President Trump, even though I'm a Republican and

849
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: critical point in a Republican, I signed all those letters

850
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: and said I would not vote for Trump, and I

851
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: did not vote for Trump President Trump, but if he

852
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: had asked me to serve, I would have thought seriously

853
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: about doing so, because that's serving the country. Now. He

854
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: didn't ask me, precisely, because I signed those letters, I

855
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: recognize that, but I had many friends who went in

856
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: to serve and work for him. They served honorably, They

857
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: did the best they could, and I did what I

858
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: could to help them from afar, and that's what the

859
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: country needs. The country. There's real disagreements between Democrats and Republicans,

860
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: and I don't want to pretend that there's no difference

861
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: of opinion. There's real differences of opinion. But at the

862
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: end of the day, we're going to have to work

863
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: together to move They're really big threats which are outside

864
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: and if we make our internal disagreements the big threats,

865
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 1: then we're in trouble.

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00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: We should be kicking our own butts. We should not

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00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 3: be in house fighting. We want to keep it from

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00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 3: our shores, right, So I.

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00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: Do what I can to help the current administration. I

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00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: do what I can to help Republicans on the hill

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00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: understand the issues better. And so whoever is president, I'll

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00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: do what I can to help them.

873
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that's a wonderful way to wind

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00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 3: down our show. Okay, I've had your time for a

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00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 3: good hour, and I really want to thank you and

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00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: my listener for being on the show. It's thanks for

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00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: my service, Peter, thanks for your service. I'm looking right

878
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 3: at you though, and I just you know, we've all

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00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: been there, and I know a lot of service members

880
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 3: say it's a job. I'm doing a job. I'm getting

881
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 3: a paycheck, I put on a uniform, I'm doing a job.

882
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: You don't have to think me for my service. I

883
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 3: think a lot of civilians are always going to kind

884
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 3: of put them at that like thanks for their service.

885
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: Just accept that when you see them at the airport

886
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 3: and say you're welcome. Okay, and again, Peter Fever, former

887
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: National Security awesome guy, Duke professor theater, Wolverine. Okay, Wolverine

888
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 3: all day, and a shout out to my homeboy, Dar Dalton.

889
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 3: Let's see if we get C. Thomas Howell on the

890
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 3: show one of these days, and then yeah, let's have

891
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 3: you back. Maybe you can get the general on with

892
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 3: you and we can have like a fun theater versus

893
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: reality show or something Okay, you're great.

894
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: That would be fun. Great talking to you well.

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00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: Thank you, and to my listeners, please keep supporting us

896
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 3: and go check out that merch store. Thanks to Brandon

897
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: Webb who puts me on the air and believes in me.

898
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 3: And to you. Do something nice for your neighbor today

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00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 3: or someone that you see, so say hi, and that's

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00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 3: saying peace from software.

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00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 2: You've been listening to self rep Radio