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Speaker 1: School of humans. This is like being a washer woman, right,

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Speaker 1: not my first favorite thing to do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of skill. You don't want to scratch anything. So how

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Speaker 1: many strokes did the guy did? The guy? The hip

5
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Speaker 1: the lady? With one or two? I hurt somebody pretty bad.

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Speaker 1: You can't get swim with one of those legs like

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Speaker 1: that I had. You could get a good swing with

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Speaker 1: one of those legs, he said, that was an understatement.

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Speaker 1: We know that it was a piano leg that is

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Speaker 1: suspected to be the murder weapon. According to my source,

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Speaker 1: that piano leg was never found. So we're in a

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Speaker 1: piano repair shop looking to learn anything we can that

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Speaker 1: might help solve the case that haunts us all. In

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Speaker 1: September of two thousand and four, twenty two year old

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Gould was brutally murdered in a remote area of

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Speaker 1: the Arkansas Ozarks. Fourteen years later, her killer is still

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Speaker 1: out there. I've come back to Mountain View with one

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Speaker 1: mission to get justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend, and

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Speaker 1: this is Helen Gone narrowing it down in my old age,

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Speaker 1: the piano repair shop feels a little bit like a junkyard,

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Speaker 1: but with fancy pianos. There's instruments everywhere. If we're gonna

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Speaker 1: find out what kind of piano leg killed Rebecca Gold,

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Speaker 1: this is the place. So I was wondering, if you know,

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Speaker 1: we just could take a look at some of the

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Speaker 1: you know, these piano legs here, just the different types

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Speaker 1: or something. Turn on the line over there. Rick Cooley

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Speaker 1: is the shop owner. He's been working with pianos for

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Speaker 1: forty five years, so he knows what he's doing. But

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Speaker 1: I think we're the first people to ask him so

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Speaker 1: many questions about piano legs. They just don't come off normally.

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Speaker 1: You know, they come off if you have to get

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Speaker 1: them off, but they're not ready to come off in

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Speaker 1: particularly ended up right. Nobody's going to certainly get the

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Speaker 1: leg off of bed. There's no way to get it off.

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Speaker 1: It screwed to the toe, yeah, so it has to

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Speaker 1: be a free leg. But most of them just have

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Speaker 1: a bolt down the middle and just screw in there.

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Speaker 1: And the French leg that's the one on the left

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Speaker 1: where it's more like curR it probably has a couple

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Speaker 1: of screws. It'd be hard to screw that one on.

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Speaker 1: It might something to do, but most of them just

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Speaker 1: have like a bolt that's glued into the leg and

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Speaker 1: just screws on. I can see because they kind of

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Speaker 1: stick out. So if something were to like hit it

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Speaker 1: on the bottom, it would probably that one's kind of

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Speaker 1: least it screws on. But I'm not going to take

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Speaker 1: it off unless you want to go back and a

48
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Speaker 1: six pag of meer or something. Well, I guess it

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Speaker 1: might get break one off, or sometimes they're falling off,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the screws stripped out or something. Does

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Speaker 1: that happen a lot? Who does what my moves one

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Speaker 1: and beats one up, and they lived in a trailer,

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Speaker 1: it probably gets pretty beat up. No, I mean imagine this,

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Speaker 1: because there's a time somebody's ranch as living room. It

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be bet up, but in a trailer it

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be. Console and a spinet has a free leg.

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Speaker 1: Usually that's the consoles a little taller, that's the spin it.

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Speaker 1: So that's the pianos don't have a free leg once

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Speaker 1: they get to be bigger consoles and spin it's that's

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Speaker 1: a smaller one. But that's the only two. I said

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Speaker 1: that those kind of legs are common to spin its

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Speaker 1: and consoles that are verticals. They're all verticals, you know,

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Speaker 1: but all ones are big things like that. I see

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Speaker 1: they have more of like a top to them, right,

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Speaker 1: and they're more that's the old fashioned. Yeah. And how

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Speaker 1: much did you you think that a leg like that

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Speaker 1: weighs like two three pounds or gosh, like four pounds

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Speaker 1: or something like it? Would it could be heavy? A

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Speaker 1: baseball is ash, which is a harder word. Would the

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Speaker 1: most piano wood would be. I'm sure a baseball that

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Speaker 1: probably wait in a little bit longer base on it

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Speaker 1: probablyways a little more than a piano or piano leg

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Speaker 1: was gonna be met out of just something like birch

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Speaker 1: or maple or something probably had listen, I'd let you

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Speaker 1: have it, don't. I mean? Have you think somewhere after

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Speaker 1: visiting the shop, I feel like we have a clear

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Speaker 1: sense of the suspected murder weapon. The piano in Casey's

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Speaker 1: house was either a console or spin at piano, the

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Speaker 1: smaller kind that can fit up against a wall and

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Speaker 1: would fit in a tiny trailer. The legs for these

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Speaker 1: pianos are mostly straight and decorative, and in cheaper models

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Speaker 1: they just have one screw that connects the leg. Basically

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Speaker 1: the legs look like upside down baseball bats, thin and

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Speaker 1: they weigh around three to four pounds, light enough to

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Speaker 1: pick up and swing, heavy enough to kill someone. Right now,

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Speaker 1: we're looking for Chris, a former drug dealer who's been

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Speaker 1: in and out of jail his whole life. He's rumored

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Speaker 1: to be the cops number one suspect in the murder.

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Speaker 1: A police source told me that their working theory is

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Speaker 1: that Chris was allegedly high on drugs and he did

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Speaker 1: it because Rebecca rejected his sexual advances. I've met Chris before.

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Speaker 1: I visited him in jail several years ago. He was

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Speaker 1: very cooperative and kind to me back then, but everyone

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Speaker 1: keeps warning me that he's a dangerous guy. Plus his

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Speaker 1: background and the unpredictability of drugs in general make this

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Speaker 1: a scary situation. Finding him won't be easy, but it's

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Speaker 1: what we have to do next. While we search for him,

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Speaker 1: we need to follow the evidence and see if it

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Speaker 1: supports this theory. Since we aren't going to be getting

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Speaker 1: the case file, we'll have to find it ourselves. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: we were able to get the autopsy report from Rebecca's dad, Larry,

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Speaker 1: along with a lot of other independent medical analysis and

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Speaker 1: research he's commissioned over the years. We meet up with

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Speaker 1: George Jerry to discuss the autopsy. Because of his reporting

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Speaker 1: about Rebecca, George has become close to Rebecca's dad, Larry,

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Speaker 1: and he's turning out to be a valuable member of

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Speaker 1: our investigative team as well. You realize that every day

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Speaker 1: there's at least probably a person who walks through that

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Speaker 1: door who has flat out killed somebody in cold blood.

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Speaker 1: Nobody knows who they are, and they're smiling at you,

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Speaker 1: talking you, acting like nothing happened. It's just really surreal

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Speaker 1: that they're out and walking around. What's frustrating about this

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Speaker 1: case is if we could just get some basic information,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like the police to verify the

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Speaker 1: piano leg theory. I mean, you know, we know it's

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Speaker 1: probably true. I mean they someone told doctor Gould, because

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Speaker 1: if you look at the autopsy report, she died from

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Speaker 1: one or two blows to the head. Doctor Gould told

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Speaker 1: me it was from a piano leg. Somebody was really

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Speaker 1: mad and they hit her with enough force to kill

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Speaker 1: her in one or two blows, which even with a

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Speaker 1: piano leg, it would take a lot of it would

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Speaker 1: take a lot of power. To do it, even for

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Speaker 1: a grown man, and you know, you can hit somebody

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Speaker 1: in the head with something and not kill them, and

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Speaker 1: so for to do it, it must have been very

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Speaker 1: anger fueled. Her actual death report, I guess it actually

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Speaker 1: says only one blow. Doctor Gould said there he thinks

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Speaker 1: there's two because there was like a like a a

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Speaker 1: rendering of her skull and there was like some damage

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Speaker 1: to another part of it, and he thought it was

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Speaker 1: another another hit. But you know, technically she was hitt

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Speaker 1: one time and that's that was the death blow. That

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Speaker 1: is what actually the autopsy reads. Is a cold document,

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Speaker 1: but it still gives me chills. It's almost like I'm

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Speaker 1: back in the morgue watching the details of Rebecca's murder

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Speaker 1: get poked and prodded by the medical examiner. Weighed out

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Speaker 1: with precision written out in terse prose, this twenty two

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Speaker 1: year old white female, Rebecca Gould died of blunt force

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Speaker 1: injuries of the head. According to investigation. She was last

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Speaker 1: independently known alive on Monday, September twenty seventh. By the way,

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Speaker 1: that's not right, it's the twentieth that's mistake. At the

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Speaker 1: time of her disappearance, she was staying at a friend's

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Speaker 1: residence near Melbourne, Arkansas. She was reported missing on September

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Speaker 1: twenty first. On September twenty seventh, her body was discovered

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Speaker 1: in a ravine along State Highway nine south of Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: Death was officially pronounced at ten fifty four am. Identification

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Speaker 1: of the decease was established through dental records. A relatively

149
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Speaker 1: high degree of decomposition change was noted. In general, this

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Speaker 1: was consistent with death having taken place at or around

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Speaker 1: the time of her disappearance. It was further noted that

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Speaker 1: the amount of decomposition involving the head was disproportionately advanced

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Speaker 1: compared to most of the rest of the body. Overall,

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Speaker 1: examination of the body did not reveal any evidence of

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Speaker 1: penetrating trauma. There was no evidence of significant blood force

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Speaker 1: injury involving the thorax. An assessment for the presence or

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Speaker 1: absence of trauma related to sexual assault could not be

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Speaker 1: performed due to the advanced degree of decomposition present. In

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Speaker 1: light of the suspicious nature of her disappearance, findings at

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Speaker 1: the scene, and the nature of her injuries, the manner

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Speaker 1: of death is homicide. So yeah, it was a really,

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Speaker 1: really really hard hit to the head. Geez, maybe twice.

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Speaker 1: It looks like the one super hard hit to the

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Speaker 1: temple was something like the piano leg because it cracked

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Speaker 1: her skull. That was the one that cracked her skull.

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Speaker 1: I noticed the name at the bottom of the autopsy,

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Speaker 1: Frank Peretti. He's the medical examiner for the Arkansas State Police,

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Speaker 1: and he's actually a bit of a controversial figure because

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Speaker 1: he also oversaw the medical examination of the infamous West

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Speaker 1: Memphis three case. Larry also paid to have an independent

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Speaker 1: review done. It confirms a lot of the details of

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Speaker 1: the autopsy, but also has some additional insights. Larry told

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Speaker 1: us that Dennis said Rebecca had been sexually assaulted, but

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Speaker 1: the autopsy specifically said that certain medical tests could not

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Speaker 1: be performed due to the length of time that the

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Speaker 1: body had been exposed to the elements. Also, Rebecca was

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Speaker 1: wearing her underwear and T shirt that, according to Danielle,

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Speaker 1: she often wore to bed. Would a rapist attack someone

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Speaker 1: and then put their underwear back on, but not bother

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Speaker 1: to redress them. According to friends and family, Rebecca was

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Speaker 1: a spitfire who would not back down from a fight.

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Speaker 1: In the autopsy, it looks like Rebecca did not have

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Speaker 1: defensive wounds. The autopsy mentions that material was taken from

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Speaker 1: under her fingernails. The evidence suggests that she was not

185
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Speaker 1: afraid of her killer. The date on the autopsy is wrong,

186
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Speaker 1: but that's most likely a typo. So we have a

187
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Speaker 1: murder weapon and an autopsy report that says Rebecca died

188
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Speaker 1: from one or two blows to the head. But to

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Speaker 1: make sure we're leaving no stone unturned, we call a

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Speaker 1: neurologist to get their take. Hey, yeah, that's me to

191
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Speaker 1: the left, and we can do one of a couple

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Speaker 1: of things. Let's see it. This should be good in here.

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Speaker 1: Any blunt trauma in the head can be dangerous. Typically

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Speaker 1: when we think about the sort of severe trauma to

195
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Speaker 1: the head that's that ends people's lives, we're thinking about

196
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Speaker 1: bad falls or car accidents or anything like that, and

197
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Speaker 1: usually those types of things cause some injury to the

198
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Speaker 1: whole brain at the same time, sort of diffuse injury

199
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Speaker 1: to the brain from deceleration and rocking around in the skull. However,

200
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Speaker 1: other blood force trauma can can certainly cause injury significant

201
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Speaker 1: enough to cause death. Trauma with a piano leg or

202
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Speaker 1: any sort of you know, blunt instrument could cause bleeding

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Speaker 1: on the outside of the brain, either what's called an

204
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Speaker 1: epidural hematoma or a subdural hematoma, and those can put

205
00:12:33,405 --> 00:12:36,445
Speaker 1: pressure on the brain and certainly could could could cause

206
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Speaker 1: death if not recognized in a short period of time.

207
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Speaker 1: So certainly, if it caused that much soft tissue damage

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Speaker 1: and caused a skull fracture or you know, a fracture

209
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Speaker 1: of any of the facial bones or anatomy, that certainly

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Speaker 1: could be enough to cause death. And are there certain

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Speaker 1: parts of the head that that may be more susceptible

212
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Speaker 1: than others, So like if she was maybe hit like

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Speaker 1: on the top of the head as opposed to like

214
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Speaker 1: down by the jaw. So in the temple region is

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Speaker 1: one area that is susceptible. There's an artery there called

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Speaker 1: the middleman ingeal artery that if ruptured, can cause severe

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Speaker 1: bleeding on the outside of the brain. And so that

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Speaker 1: is one area, especially in a younger person, where we're

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Speaker 1: damage that caused a skull fracture could could lead to death.

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Speaker 1: I mean that would be the quickest, easiest, like least

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Speaker 1: amount of force the two areas. I mean, that would

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Speaker 1: be one the other would be at the at the

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Speaker 1: base of the at the base of the skull where

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Speaker 1: you can do damage to breathing structures and the the

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Speaker 1: and the cervical spinal cord and the arteries that the

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Speaker 1: vertebral arteries that supply blood to the base of the brain.

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Speaker 1: And so that's another area that if if damaged, could

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Speaker 1: cause significant, you know, significant injury pretty quickly. So it

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Speaker 1: sounds like there was internal bleeding, But what about all

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Speaker 1: the blood at the crime scene. So usually when we

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Speaker 1: see blood on the outside of the body, that would

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Speaker 1: indicate that someone's bleed bleeding from an external source. And

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Speaker 1: so there are a number of number of arteries in

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Speaker 1: the face and neck area that that if someone was

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Speaker 1: bleeding outwardly, they could lose a significant amount of blood.

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Speaker 1: That brings up another possibility, which is that that that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the brain injury at all. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: if there was a significant amount of blood, someone could simply,

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Speaker 1: you know, lose enough blood volume to not be able

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Speaker 1: to circulate blood to their organs. Adam opens a nearby

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Speaker 1: textbook and rifles to images of brain injury. Is consistent

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Speaker 1: with Rebecca's. Yeah, so this is a skin of something

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Speaker 1: called an epidural hematoma. And what I'm looking at here

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Speaker 1: is this. You can see there's like a lend shaped

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Speaker 1: area that's that's not you don't see it on this side,

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Speaker 1: and so the sort of bulges out right there. And

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Speaker 1: so what happens is that's that's a hemorrhage that occurs

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Speaker 1: between the skull and one of the outer layers of

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Speaker 1: the outer coverings of the brain called the dura. And

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Speaker 1: that's one that's oftentimes if you have a fracture that

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Speaker 1: goes through the middle ninjea artery which runs sort of

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Speaker 1: in the temple, sort of in the temple region. That

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Speaker 1: that's something that you could see. After talking with Adam,

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Speaker 1: it's clear that it is possible to cause enough damage

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Speaker 1: to kill someone with one blow, and surprisingly it may

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Speaker 1: not have required a significant amount of force. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that really bugs me about the autopsy is the

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Speaker 1: decomposition of the body and how that relates to the

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Speaker 1: timeline of death. We head out to the spot on

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Speaker 1: Highway nine where Rebecca's body was found, hopefully that will

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Speaker 1: give us some context. There's a bomb, I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: a skeleton. See look, and once you get over there,

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Speaker 1: it gets really steep. So this area right here is

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Speaker 1: a really hilly, remote area. It's near actually a scenic

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Speaker 1: like beauty area overlook. It's near a lot of national

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Speaker 1: forest land. You look down over like this, So from

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Speaker 1: the road there's all this kind of brush and trees

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Speaker 1: and yeah, and then you go past that and there's

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Speaker 1: this huge rocky drop off and do you know, was

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Speaker 1: it on this first drop off or was it on

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Speaker 1: this much steeper lower I thought it was on the

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Speaker 1: first drop off because a lot of people said you

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Speaker 1: could see it from the road. But this would be

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Speaker 1: a perfect dump area. Actually, I still think it would

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Speaker 1: have been a much better plan actually to bury a

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Speaker 1: body in the woods rather than just like because you know,

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Speaker 1: it's going to get discovered if you throw it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it might take a while, but like

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Speaker 1: it's going to get discovered. That's what I wonder too,

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Speaker 1: if there was something that just like spooked them. They

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Speaker 1: were just kind of waiting, hoping to find a better spot,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually they were just like, we need to

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Speaker 1: get rid of this now, pulled up on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road, and then disposed of the body. I

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Speaker 1: think so, I mean, I think there's a very I

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Speaker 1: think there's a really good chance that it was not

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Speaker 1: here for a week, that it was somewhere else. It's

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Speaker 1: funny though, like when I first heard about this, like

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Speaker 1: before I first came here, they did make it seem

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, it was, you know, visible from the road,

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Speaker 1: and as you can see, like not necessarily there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of really wild growth and trees, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I can see where it would stay hidden. Rebecca's body

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Speaker 1: was found close to the road, beside a scenic overlook.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the only places on the curvy steep

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Speaker 1: road with a shoulder where people can actually pull over

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Speaker 1: to check out the views or to dump trash. I'm

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Speaker 1: torn about that because I feel like, on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: I can totally see how a body could stay hidden

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Speaker 1: down there for a week, you know, with my limited

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, there were hundreds of people looking,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, if it's an obvious garbage drop area,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't this be like one of the very first places

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Speaker 1: they searched. But some lingering questions remained for me. Was

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Speaker 1: Rebecca dumped here immediately after she died, or was she

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Speaker 1: kept somewhere else and then moved. I remember hearing from

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Speaker 1: several first responders that they saw buzzards circling the site

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Speaker 1: where Rebecca's body was found. Maybe that's a clue as

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Speaker 1: a woman, Rebecca's body was actually dumped at the Highway

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Speaker 1: nine site. So we contact Keith Bildstein, a conservation scientist

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Speaker 1: who knows a ton about vultures. I have been into

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Speaker 1: the northern part of Arkansas, but I have been into

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Speaker 1: the southern part of Missouri, and that's gorgeous hill country.

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Speaker 1: Two vultures that occur in that part of the country.

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Speaker 1: One is a black vulture, which hunts entirely by sight

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Speaker 1: and not by smell, and the other is the turkey vulture,

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Speaker 1: which uses both old faction and vision to look carcass.

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Speaker 1: Vultures can be pretty persnickety when a new kind of

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Speaker 1: carcass occurs in a new area. If it's an If

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Speaker 1: it's a typical kind of carcass like the deer, they

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Speaker 1: might be more The vultures would be more likely to

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Speaker 1: go to something that they're familiar with. It doesn't look

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Speaker 1: out of place, that doesn't look strange, that looks more normal.

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Speaker 1: If the carcass was unopened, the human carcass, it might

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Speaker 1: take a little bit longer for the vultures to locate it.

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Speaker 1: The question that you have to ask yourself is not

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Speaker 1: the carcass you're thinking of, but how carcasses might have

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Speaker 1: been around for the vultures to feed on, because they

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Speaker 1: don't like really old meat unless there's no alternative. Over

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Speaker 1: the last few days, as we've been investigating the facts

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Speaker 1: of the autopsy report, I've been pulling out all the

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Speaker 1: stops to try to find Chris. But in a town

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Speaker 1: where everyone seems to be afraid of him, that's not

334
00:20:20,085 --> 00:20:23,725
Speaker 1: always easy. I've made inroads with a local source who's

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00:20:23,765 --> 00:20:26,645
Speaker 1: scared of us even using their voice, and they've just

336
00:20:26,685 --> 00:20:29,525
Speaker 1: given me a lead. During the weekends, Chris has been

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00:20:29,605 --> 00:20:32,605
Speaker 1: visiting his girlfriend, Cindy, but during the week he's a

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Speaker 1: rehab facility in b Branch, Arkansas. And if that's where

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00:20:36,285 --> 00:20:43,925
Speaker 1: he is, then that's where we're headed. Heads south of

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Speaker 1: Blachern Avenue, we're literally driving into the middle of meth

341
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Speaker 1: Storm territory right now. We're driving straight through the heart

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Speaker 1: of the part of Arkansas where the documentary meth Storm

343
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Speaker 1: was filmed. This part of Arkansas has been decimated by

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00:20:57,005 --> 00:21:01,165
Speaker 1: poverty and myth. This is some creepy shit right here.

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00:21:01,205 --> 00:21:05,765
Speaker 1: Not Oh god, do you think somebody's list there left

346
00:21:05,925 --> 00:21:11,005
Speaker 1: to see? This is? This is Midland, dude. I'm telling you, Wow,

347
00:21:11,485 --> 00:21:13,725
Speaker 1: look at that. Look in there there's like a tree.

348
00:21:14,245 --> 00:21:18,845
Speaker 1: It's like look to the right, look look this is

349
00:21:19,045 --> 00:21:22,845
Speaker 1: this is a broken down nine miles turn left onto

350
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Speaker 1: Highway sixty five. I know we're getting the hell out

351
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Speaker 1: of here. The deeper we get, the scarier it gets,

352
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Speaker 1: and the more I hope my grandmother's twenty year old

353
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Speaker 1: durango does not break down. Okay, if he is at

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Speaker 1: this rehab facility, I feel like we have a better chance.

355
00:21:37,205 --> 00:21:39,885
Speaker 1: And wait, he might an area, he might not recognize me.

356
00:21:39,965 --> 00:21:42,125
Speaker 1: But once I say, oh hey, I'm carelessis remember I

357
00:21:42,165 --> 00:21:44,405
Speaker 1: came and saw you in jail, He'll know. I mean,

358
00:21:44,405 --> 00:21:46,365
Speaker 1: how many people who visited right in jail? He'll know

359
00:21:46,405 --> 00:21:49,685
Speaker 1: who I am. Once I say that I did read

360
00:21:49,725 --> 00:21:53,445
Speaker 1: the contract with this one rehabits and b ranch, and

361
00:21:53,485 --> 00:21:55,325
Speaker 1: it sort of said that they were expected to get

362
00:21:55,405 --> 00:21:59,445
Speaker 1: jobs in the community and to you know, work, and

363
00:22:00,085 --> 00:22:01,965
Speaker 1: it had it had this list of kind of like

364
00:22:02,085 --> 00:22:04,005
Speaker 1: rules you fall, But it didn't sound like it was

365
00:22:05,005 --> 00:22:07,405
Speaker 1: in pace, you know what I mean. It sounded more

366
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Speaker 1: like maybe something that you could leave on the weekends. Okay,

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00:22:11,125 --> 00:22:13,125
Speaker 1: so that was my you answer my question then, like

368
00:22:13,965 --> 00:22:16,845
Speaker 1: could we be at the right place? But he is

369
00:22:16,845 --> 00:22:19,165
Speaker 1: at work, but at this point we don't really know.

370
00:22:19,285 --> 00:22:21,605
Speaker 1: We're not sure of his exact address. We have this

371
00:22:21,645 --> 00:22:25,325
Speaker 1: piece of information, so it's either we have really two

372
00:22:25,325 --> 00:22:27,125
Speaker 1: options now because we don't know any of his friends.

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00:22:27,125 --> 00:22:30,125
Speaker 1: It's like either we try to go here and get

374
00:22:30,165 --> 00:22:31,925
Speaker 1: him by himself and have a shot at that, or

375
00:22:31,965 --> 00:22:34,325
Speaker 1: we have to try and get to him through Cindy.

376
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Speaker 1: And I feel like that's really hit or miss. So

377
00:22:37,405 --> 00:22:39,845
Speaker 1: I think this is unfortunately, like this is probably the

378
00:22:39,845 --> 00:22:41,965
Speaker 1: best option to try this because if it worked, it

379
00:22:42,005 --> 00:22:44,685
Speaker 1: would be much better than having to try and figure

380
00:22:44,685 --> 00:22:46,485
Speaker 1: out what day is going to be in Mountain View maybe,

381
00:22:46,605 --> 00:22:50,045
Speaker 1: or try to get him through Cindy. Absolutely, this guy

382
00:22:50,165 --> 00:22:52,925
Speaker 1: nobody seems to know where he is, even his people

383
00:22:52,965 --> 00:22:56,485
Speaker 1: are supposed to be his friends. Right. I brought along

384
00:22:56,525 --> 00:22:58,445
Speaker 1: a letter I wrote to Chris, so if we can't

385
00:22:58,485 --> 00:23:01,045
Speaker 1: ambush him, we've still communicated with him and let him

386
00:23:01,045 --> 00:23:02,845
Speaker 1: know we're not a threat. Like if we leave this

387
00:23:02,925 --> 00:23:04,085
Speaker 1: letter for him, but we don't want to leave it.

388
00:23:04,085 --> 00:23:08,245
Speaker 1: If this is the next coming up is up here? Shit, man,

389
00:23:08,365 --> 00:23:11,565
Speaker 1: this is on your right. This place as scary as now. God,

390
00:23:11,885 --> 00:23:13,965
Speaker 1: oh god, damn it, that's him. I'm gonna pull, I'm

391
00:23:13,965 --> 00:23:20,165
Speaker 1: gonna go. Beys fine, Hello, Hey, how's it going? The

392
00:23:20,205 --> 00:23:23,565
Speaker 1: phone rings? It's my source. We're actually in b Branch

393
00:23:23,645 --> 00:23:30,365
Speaker 1: right now. It's looking for Chris. Oh my god, Oh

394
00:23:30,445 --> 00:23:33,845
Speaker 1: my god, are you Mountain View? He's back in Mountain View. No,

395
00:23:33,965 --> 00:23:35,765
Speaker 1: like he's at Sindy's right now working on a truck.

396
00:23:36,445 --> 00:23:39,605
Speaker 1: If he's outside right, Oh my god, this is killing me.

397
00:23:39,845 --> 00:23:41,405
Speaker 1: How long do we How long do we rack to

398
00:23:41,405 --> 00:23:45,765
Speaker 1: Mountain View? Two fifteen? I just really want to get him.

399
00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:48,485
Speaker 1: We can. This might be our only shot. He says.

400
00:23:48,485 --> 00:23:51,285
Speaker 1: He's sitting outside a house where Chris's car is right now.

401
00:23:52,085 --> 00:23:55,725
Speaker 1: The GPS says, we're a half hour away. I can

402
00:23:55,805 --> 00:24:11,805
Speaker 1: drive it him fifteen. We'll be right back. When people say, oh,

403
00:24:11,845 --> 00:24:14,285
Speaker 1: find this person, it's not just like oh, you put it,

404
00:24:14,325 --> 00:24:16,645
Speaker 1: put something in a database and it spits out an address.

405
00:24:16,685 --> 00:24:19,325
Speaker 1: It's really hard. It involves and you don't have it

406
00:24:19,365 --> 00:24:22,765
Speaker 1: confirmed until you physically are staking them out and seeing

407
00:24:22,765 --> 00:24:25,165
Speaker 1: them at that place, and even then you know it

408
00:24:25,165 --> 00:24:29,085
Speaker 1: could be different the next day, like and of course

409
00:24:30,245 --> 00:24:34,565
Speaker 1: it's fucking so slow getting closer. We realize that this

410
00:24:34,685 --> 00:24:36,725
Speaker 1: is about the spot where they lost Cindy on the

411
00:24:36,725 --> 00:24:41,565
Speaker 1: stakeout how we passed it a million times. Then you know, nuts,

412
00:24:41,725 --> 00:24:43,605
Speaker 1: I knew it. I knew she had to be right

413
00:24:43,645 --> 00:24:46,925
Speaker 1: off of the road somehow, because there's no way. She's

414
00:24:46,965 --> 00:24:49,765
Speaker 1: just weird. She just literally vanished. I got all the

415
00:24:49,805 --> 00:24:53,005
Speaker 1: way back to like the one light in town, and

416
00:24:53,045 --> 00:24:55,245
Speaker 1: I was like, shit, gone in a quarter mile. Your

417
00:24:55,285 --> 00:24:58,925
Speaker 1: destination will be on the right. There's there. It is

418
00:24:58,925 --> 00:25:02,525
Speaker 1: with their right. There's a white car. That's it. That's it.

419
00:25:03,365 --> 00:25:10,165
Speaker 1: I'm superst that's a that's your destination. Unless that's it,

420
00:25:10,165 --> 00:25:12,525
Speaker 1: because that also need it. That's him. That's him. The

421
00:25:12,565 --> 00:25:14,605
Speaker 1: source has given us the road, but there's two houses

422
00:25:14,645 --> 00:25:16,725
Speaker 1: it could be, and if we mess this up, we've

423
00:25:16,765 --> 00:25:18,645
Speaker 1: just tipped the neighbors off that we're looking for him.

424
00:25:19,205 --> 00:25:20,965
Speaker 1: We need to be one hundred percent sure before we

425
00:25:21,045 --> 00:25:23,485
Speaker 1: pull into this driveway. It's the second one is the

426
00:25:23,525 --> 00:25:28,245
Speaker 1: one with the people out fronts right in front of me.

427
00:25:29,205 --> 00:25:32,045
Speaker 1: There's two guys out there. You ready, Yeah, take a

428
00:25:32,085 --> 00:25:44,565
Speaker 1: deep breath, dude, get my ready. Yep. Chris. Hey, Chris

429
00:25:44,645 --> 00:25:47,525
Speaker 1: is not that tall, but he's strong in stature. This

430
00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:49,325
Speaker 1: is clearly a guy who has been through a lot

431
00:25:49,325 --> 00:25:52,405
Speaker 1: in his life. His hands are coated in oil from

432
00:25:52,405 --> 00:25:54,885
Speaker 1: working on his car. But the thing that strikes me

433
00:25:54,965 --> 00:25:59,365
Speaker 1: most or his eyes. They're very light blue, almost glass like.

434
00:26:00,005 --> 00:26:02,525
Speaker 1: He has a look of concern, like a friend asking

435
00:26:02,565 --> 00:26:06,485
Speaker 1: for help. He looks surprised to see me, but he

436
00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:09,885
Speaker 1: knew exactly who I was. He tells us he'll talk,

437
00:26:10,405 --> 00:26:14,805
Speaker 1: but he invites us inside his house. My strategy when

438
00:26:14,805 --> 00:26:17,125
Speaker 1: talking to anyone is to keep an open mind and

439
00:26:17,165 --> 00:26:19,645
Speaker 1: not to judge. I think that they can sense that

440
00:26:19,685 --> 00:26:22,005
Speaker 1: I'm straight with them, and that's why so many people

441
00:26:22,045 --> 00:26:25,765
Speaker 1: are comfortable telling me their darkest secrets. It's clear that

442
00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:27,725
Speaker 1: this case isn't just about the good guys and the

443
00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:32,205
Speaker 1: bad guys. There's several shades of gray. Chris knows why

444
00:26:32,205 --> 00:26:34,765
Speaker 1: I'm here and what I want to know. I've already

445
00:26:34,805 --> 00:26:37,725
Speaker 1: asked him straight out if he killed Rebecca. Now that

446
00:26:37,765 --> 00:26:40,125
Speaker 1: he's not being recorded by the cops, I want to

447
00:26:40,165 --> 00:26:44,325
Speaker 1: know if he'll tell me why he doesn't trust them. Well, so, yeah,

448
00:26:44,525 --> 00:26:46,005
Speaker 1: like I said, we've been working on this for a

449
00:26:46,045 --> 00:26:49,725
Speaker 1: long time. And we've always been convined that the cops

450
00:26:50,085 --> 00:26:53,405
Speaker 1: are just totally inconfident and they there's such a big

451
00:26:53,445 --> 00:26:56,445
Speaker 1: word for me of confident or adopted him. And I

452
00:26:56,445 --> 00:26:59,245
Speaker 1: think that since the beginning, I've never thought that you

453
00:26:59,325 --> 00:27:01,085
Speaker 1: had even here with it, and Nick and I talked

454
00:27:01,125 --> 00:27:02,725
Speaker 1: to lie never I thought you need to deal with it,

455
00:27:02,765 --> 00:27:06,805
Speaker 1: and the police just seems super focused on that. So yeah,

456
00:27:06,885 --> 00:27:08,365
Speaker 1: we're just we're just really trying to find out. Like,

457
00:27:08,445 --> 00:27:12,485
Speaker 1: first of all, there's all these weird rumors, like that weekend.

458
00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:14,285
Speaker 1: Do you have any idea like why they thought you

459
00:27:14,325 --> 00:27:19,605
Speaker 1: were involved. Yeah, at the time, like my opinion at

460
00:27:19,645 --> 00:27:23,085
Speaker 1: the time, like I was at a friend's house and

461
00:27:23,165 --> 00:27:26,485
Speaker 1: he lived on a herple. Well, Rebecca had stopped by

462
00:27:26,565 --> 00:27:30,565
Speaker 1: the that night. Well he had said something all the sidelines,

463
00:27:30,605 --> 00:27:32,125
Speaker 1: like he was supposed to go fix your car the

464
00:27:32,165 --> 00:27:35,085
Speaker 1: next morning. Well that's the morning she come up. She

465
00:27:35,165 --> 00:27:38,125
Speaker 1: come up missing or whatever. And then like I told

466
00:27:38,165 --> 00:27:40,645
Speaker 1: the copstead or whatever, and then it turned around, so

467
00:27:40,725 --> 00:27:43,525
Speaker 1: they started trying to well, you know, her whereabouts or whatever.

468
00:27:43,565 --> 00:27:45,965
Speaker 1: Real you know what I mean. I'm like, well, you know, uh,

469
00:27:46,605 --> 00:27:49,965
Speaker 1: Daniel and Nick, Rebecca, me all of us went to

470
00:27:50,125 --> 00:27:51,925
Speaker 1: together and I was really really friends with him. I mean,

471
00:27:52,525 --> 00:27:56,005
Speaker 1: so like I felt like and Tim Mary kind of

472
00:27:56,045 --> 00:27:58,245
Speaker 1: adopted me cause I had a bad influence environment that

473
00:27:58,285 --> 00:28:00,165
Speaker 1: I lived in when I was a kid. And that

474
00:28:00,365 --> 00:28:02,205
Speaker 1: asked me, you know, and I said, yeah, Mom, like

475
00:28:02,245 --> 00:28:04,365
Speaker 1: you know, re Becca stopped at Jeb's house and uh

476
00:28:04,405 --> 00:28:06,605
Speaker 1: thatnot or whatever, and he's supposed to go fix your

477
00:28:06,605 --> 00:28:09,365
Speaker 1: car the next morning, and jab come up out of

478
00:28:09,405 --> 00:28:11,525
Speaker 1: town for like two or three days, was gone, he said,

479
00:28:11,565 --> 00:28:14,685
Speaker 1: either some kind of appointment or something. But I felt

480
00:28:14,685 --> 00:28:16,485
Speaker 1: like when he looked at me, he looked at me

481
00:28:16,605 --> 00:28:19,565
Speaker 1: like just empty empty eyes, you know. And I mean,

482
00:28:19,725 --> 00:28:21,525
Speaker 1: of course we was all under in front of drugs

483
00:28:21,525 --> 00:28:24,165
Speaker 1: and stuff back then, like really heavy. But in my heart,

484
00:28:24,245 --> 00:28:27,485
Speaker 1: my opinion, I always thoughted had he knew something more

485
00:28:27,565 --> 00:28:30,005
Speaker 1: than what he was saying or he had done, And

486
00:28:30,085 --> 00:28:32,805
Speaker 1: so I always he was supposed to go to fix

487
00:28:32,885 --> 00:28:35,525
Speaker 1: your car nex state, you know, like did you fix

488
00:28:35,565 --> 00:28:36,845
Speaker 1: your car? And he wouldn't answer me, you know what

489
00:28:36,845 --> 00:28:40,725
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, and so I always thought that, you know,

490
00:28:41,485 --> 00:28:43,845
Speaker 1: he either brought some people down from Habit that did it,

491
00:28:44,445 --> 00:28:46,285
Speaker 1: or he knew more about it than what he explained.

492
00:28:47,085 --> 00:28:49,125
Speaker 1: And I like the more I kind of you know,

493
00:28:49,885 --> 00:28:51,685
Speaker 1: tried to help solve the case. The more he got

494
00:28:51,685 --> 00:28:54,285
Speaker 1: pushed on me that I had done it after that

495
00:28:54,525 --> 00:28:56,845
Speaker 1: case with the kind of learnt me the hard way

496
00:28:56,965 --> 00:28:59,765
Speaker 1: is never to you know, I put myself in it

497
00:28:59,805 --> 00:29:01,885
Speaker 1: as a suspect basically, you know what I mean. And

498
00:29:01,925 --> 00:29:04,365
Speaker 1: the only reason I even carried because we Becca we

499
00:29:04,405 --> 00:29:07,005
Speaker 1: always raised in school together and like Rebecca and Daniell

500
00:29:07,005 --> 00:29:09,445
Speaker 1: would always say Nick Danielle's I mean Nick was dating

501
00:29:09,485 --> 00:29:12,405
Speaker 1: Danielle right, so we was always were closed and even

502
00:29:12,445 --> 00:29:14,965
Speaker 1: like Rebecca Danielle's played the gas station with Kevin, Mary

503
00:29:15,005 --> 00:29:17,005
Speaker 1: owned it up there and like we was always were

504
00:29:17,045 --> 00:29:20,005
Speaker 1: close together, you know, And so in my opinion, I

505
00:29:20,085 --> 00:29:22,845
Speaker 1: was lostuff. Like the last person is seeing that person

506
00:29:22,965 --> 00:29:25,725
Speaker 1: with JB in my heart. I know that for a fact.

507
00:29:26,205 --> 00:29:27,925
Speaker 1: So why don't you go to him to ask him? Well,

508
00:29:27,925 --> 00:29:31,125
Speaker 1: what night was this? It's been a long time ago.

509
00:29:31,805 --> 00:29:34,325
Speaker 1: It was a that night Rebecca stopped by there and

510
00:29:35,285 --> 00:29:39,085
Speaker 1: got some weeding or whatever from JB. And then JB said, yeah,

511
00:29:39,125 --> 00:29:40,605
Speaker 1: I'll come over to pitt your car the next day

512
00:29:41,005 --> 00:29:44,005
Speaker 1: over there. Well he come up missing two three days

513
00:29:44,045 --> 00:29:46,845
Speaker 1: after that. Well, why don't you go ask him, you know,

514
00:29:47,245 --> 00:29:49,285
Speaker 1: instead of pushing them, my thought. But I went to

515
00:29:49,285 --> 00:29:51,485
Speaker 1: cop squad ask him, I mean, had you ever been

516
00:29:51,525 --> 00:29:53,965
Speaker 1: to that house at that point in time? I didn't

517
00:29:54,005 --> 00:29:55,765
Speaker 1: know that, and I had never been to that house before.

518
00:29:55,885 --> 00:29:57,325
Speaker 1: So that's why I told end Simon. I said, there's

519
00:29:57,325 --> 00:29:58,445
Speaker 1: no way, Henes, I mean, you can keep me in

520
00:29:58,445 --> 00:30:00,565
Speaker 1: a lot of tips questions. I've never been over there, yeah,

521
00:30:00,645 --> 00:30:03,725
Speaker 1: you know ever, and I didn't. I met Casey one

522
00:30:03,765 --> 00:30:06,685
Speaker 1: time and he he was at the gas station and

523
00:30:06,725 --> 00:30:09,165
Speaker 1: I knew that something about Sun. That's all I knowed

524
00:30:09,165 --> 00:30:12,045
Speaker 1: about Casey at that point in John right, So I've

525
00:30:12,125 --> 00:30:13,845
Speaker 1: never been over there. Did they ever ask where you

526
00:30:13,885 --> 00:30:18,485
Speaker 1: were on Sunday and Monday? That not or whatever. I

527
00:30:18,645 --> 00:30:21,965
Speaker 1: went to Tim Marria's house, and that next morning when

528
00:30:21,965 --> 00:30:24,205
Speaker 1: I woke up, she asked me, she said, have you

529
00:30:24,245 --> 00:30:27,125
Speaker 1: seen Rebecca right? And I said, well, you know I

530
00:30:27,165 --> 00:30:29,485
Speaker 1: heard it she stopped by JB's house last night, and

531
00:30:29,525 --> 00:30:31,165
Speaker 1: that's what threw the cops over on me. But I said,

532
00:30:31,205 --> 00:30:33,285
Speaker 1: I'll go over there to JB's house today and ask,

533
00:30:33,405 --> 00:30:35,925
Speaker 1: you know, JB's been gone, you know, all day and

534
00:30:36,085 --> 00:30:38,485
Speaker 1: haven't seen him. And then I come back by there,

535
00:30:38,525 --> 00:30:40,205
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And still know JB and

536
00:30:40,245 --> 00:30:42,365
Speaker 1: still know JB. And it was like two days JB

537
00:30:42,525 --> 00:30:45,045
Speaker 1: was gone, but he had an alibi because he went

538
00:30:45,085 --> 00:30:48,565
Speaker 1: to some appointments, so I don't know what. Maybe he

539
00:30:48,605 --> 00:30:50,845
Speaker 1: did have it, you know, he I don't know that

540
00:30:50,965 --> 00:30:52,525
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, I didn't with him or nothing, but

541
00:30:52,565 --> 00:30:53,925
Speaker 1: that's all I knew about it. But I was like, man,

542
00:30:53,925 --> 00:30:57,125
Speaker 1: you know in my heart, you know, and you said

543
00:30:57,125 --> 00:30:58,405
Speaker 1: it out of your mouth that you was gonna go

544
00:30:58,605 --> 00:31:00,165
Speaker 1: to figure cards, you know what I mean? And this

545
00:31:00,245 --> 00:31:02,525
Speaker 1: time he felt like I was trying to pinge him

546
00:31:02,525 --> 00:31:03,445
Speaker 1: for you know what I mean. I was like, well,

547
00:31:03,485 --> 00:31:05,565
Speaker 1: you know, in my heart, I think he has to

548
00:31:05,725 --> 00:31:08,645
Speaker 1: do it, JAV. And I mean if I found out that,

549
00:31:08,805 --> 00:31:11,285
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I'd hurt you, you know.

550
00:31:12,005 --> 00:31:13,045
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know because I was like

551
00:31:13,085 --> 00:31:15,565
Speaker 1: my sister, and I mean, nobody deserves something like that,

552
00:31:15,605 --> 00:31:18,485
Speaker 1: you know. So you guys are close, I mean you

553
00:31:18,485 --> 00:31:21,325
Speaker 1: and Rebecca, yeah, and Danielle, like we we went just

554
00:31:21,445 --> 00:31:23,245
Speaker 1: like all the way from I think first grade all

555
00:31:23,285 --> 00:31:26,085
Speaker 1: the way until like she passed away, like and we

556
00:31:26,205 --> 00:31:28,365
Speaker 1: was all pretty close, you know what I mean. And

557
00:31:28,405 --> 00:31:29,645
Speaker 1: you know how it is in school, you know, when

558
00:31:29,645 --> 00:31:32,045
Speaker 1: we could pack ground and stuff like that. So they

559
00:31:32,085 --> 00:31:33,885
Speaker 1: would also come to Tim and Mary's house a lot,

560
00:31:33,925 --> 00:31:35,965
Speaker 1: and they'd also go to church with us. All tim

561
00:31:35,965 --> 00:31:38,445
Speaker 1: America had adopted like all of us as a family,

562
00:31:38,485 --> 00:31:40,085
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I was really close to all

563
00:31:40,125 --> 00:31:43,045
Speaker 1: that whole family. Tim and Mary were Chris's adopted parents.

564
00:31:43,405 --> 00:31:47,245
Speaker 1: They were also Danielle's ex husband Nick's biological parents, so

565
00:31:47,285 --> 00:31:50,765
Speaker 1: there really was a close connection between Chris, Danielle and Rebecca.

566
00:31:51,325 --> 00:31:53,525
Speaker 1: She was like a sister to him at one point

567
00:31:53,565 --> 00:31:55,085
Speaker 1: in time. Like, I didn't have no place to stay

568
00:31:55,205 --> 00:31:57,845
Speaker 1: when I first met Rebecca and Danielle and Joan, and

569
00:31:57,845 --> 00:31:59,845
Speaker 1: they had a van sitting down in front yard, and

570
00:31:59,885 --> 00:32:01,925
Speaker 1: like she would leave the van un locked and let

571
00:32:01,925 --> 00:32:03,645
Speaker 1: me sleep in it because I had no place to sleep,

572
00:32:04,365 --> 00:32:06,125
Speaker 1: somebody all opening the doors for me. It was just

573
00:32:06,165 --> 00:32:07,565
Speaker 1: a van, but to me it was a home, you know.

574
00:32:07,565 --> 00:32:09,485
Speaker 1: I mean, And I'd always go there after school and stuff.

575
00:32:09,805 --> 00:32:11,845
Speaker 1: I'm especially in ball games, and I sliped that van,

576
00:32:12,005 --> 00:32:13,885
Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes she let become in the house

577
00:32:13,925 --> 00:32:16,405
Speaker 1: take showers, and I kept my clothing that van and

578
00:32:16,445 --> 00:32:18,765
Speaker 1: stuff for like years. She was a good person and

579
00:32:18,805 --> 00:32:20,325
Speaker 1: she had a good heart, you know, and like I

580
00:32:20,405 --> 00:32:24,125
Speaker 1: just didn't, and that's how I always kind of cooperated,

581
00:32:24,125 --> 00:32:25,965
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because like anything that I

582
00:32:26,045 --> 00:32:28,445
Speaker 1: might held my mind, I wanted to let it out,

583
00:32:28,445 --> 00:32:31,005
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because I mean unforgiveness, you know,

584
00:32:31,125 --> 00:32:32,765
Speaker 1: and like, uh, I didn't want to and guilt and

585
00:32:32,805 --> 00:32:35,485
Speaker 1: shame you know about you know, if I would have actually,

586
00:32:35,565 --> 00:32:37,965
Speaker 1: you know, done something, you know, if I'd known that

587
00:32:38,005 --> 00:32:40,805
Speaker 1: was gonna happen and stuff like that. You know, it

588
00:32:40,845 --> 00:32:43,605
Speaker 1: was way heavy on me for a long time. But

589
00:32:43,805 --> 00:32:45,445
Speaker 1: I mean I finally just you know, took the Lord,

590
00:32:45,525 --> 00:32:47,125
Speaker 1: like you know, please take his burden for me, you know,

591
00:32:47,245 --> 00:32:49,045
Speaker 1: and like, you know, just let me be able to

592
00:32:49,125 --> 00:32:51,085
Speaker 1: accept it what to happen, you know, just going with

593
00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:53,165
Speaker 1: my life because you know, I'm getting older and I'll

594
00:32:53,205 --> 00:32:55,365
Speaker 1: have family and kids and stuff. But like I'd always

595
00:32:55,445 --> 00:32:57,485
Speaker 1: walk ready with dinners, Simon and anybody that always come

596
00:32:57,525 --> 00:32:59,725
Speaker 1: and ask me, you know. But you know that's what

597
00:32:59,765 --> 00:33:01,045
Speaker 1: I told you in Simon. I was like, well, you know,

598
00:33:01,685 --> 00:33:03,165
Speaker 1: you could do whatever to me, but I've never been

599
00:33:03,165 --> 00:33:04,565
Speaker 1: over there, so you can't in the way you stick

600
00:33:04,605 --> 00:33:05,805
Speaker 1: me for you, you you know what I mean. I was like,

601
00:33:05,845 --> 00:33:07,645
Speaker 1: I mean, I tell you whatever I know, and the

602
00:33:07,725 --> 00:33:09,445
Speaker 1: one told him more. I feel like I was a suspect,

603
00:33:09,565 --> 00:33:12,765
Speaker 1: so I just he wanted to DNA sample and stuff,

604
00:33:12,765 --> 00:33:14,525
Speaker 1: and I was like, look, dude, I'll give you an example,

605
00:33:14,565 --> 00:33:16,245
Speaker 1: but I'm not giving it to you. I haven't got

606
00:33:16,325 --> 00:33:18,045
Speaker 1: on a lot of texture tests one time, and like

607
00:33:18,085 --> 00:33:20,525
Speaker 1: I flunked every question, and I felt like he was

608
00:33:20,525 --> 00:33:23,125
Speaker 1: trying to manipulate me into saying something that I didn't,

609
00:33:23,125 --> 00:33:24,965
Speaker 1: and I'm like, dude, you know, I'm just done. This

610
00:33:25,005 --> 00:33:27,205
Speaker 1: went on, you know, like I don't you know, I

611
00:33:27,245 --> 00:33:28,885
Speaker 1: think I even fund my own name. I'm like, you

612
00:33:28,965 --> 00:33:31,765
Speaker 1: know whatever, you know what I mean, Like I flunked

613
00:33:31,805 --> 00:33:34,205
Speaker 1: every question, like I was just lying about everything, and

614
00:33:34,325 --> 00:33:37,485
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I told you everything. So they

615
00:33:37,485 --> 00:33:40,045
Speaker 1: don't even like me at all, period, you know. And

616
00:33:40,125 --> 00:33:42,125
Speaker 1: I pray every day to actually catch the person did it,

617
00:33:42,245 --> 00:33:44,245
Speaker 1: but my heart, I feel like there already another person

618
00:33:44,285 --> 00:33:53,245
Speaker 1: did it, and they're never actually gonna you know, h

619
00:33:59,365 --> 00:34:03,485
Speaker 1: see his eyes, he had tears in his eyes. This

620
00:34:03,525 --> 00:34:05,045
Speaker 1: is the guy that everybody's been saying is like the

621
00:34:05,885 --> 00:34:08,725
Speaker 1: you know, this evil whatever. His eyes were all tearing up.

622
00:34:09,165 --> 00:34:10,765
Speaker 1: He was I thought I was gonna cry. I mean

623
00:34:10,805 --> 00:34:14,965
Speaker 1: it honestly sounded like he genuinely wanted the thing solved,

624
00:34:15,045 --> 00:34:17,085
Speaker 1: and like one letter was why the fuck would he

625
00:34:17,125 --> 00:34:19,365
Speaker 1: talk to us. He took us in there and like

626
00:34:19,405 --> 00:34:22,125
Speaker 1: answered questions and was like, you know what we've heard

627
00:34:22,165 --> 00:34:25,725
Speaker 1: from everybody is that at the time he had he

628
00:34:26,045 --> 00:34:27,885
Speaker 1: was you know, he even said, I said, well, what

629
00:34:28,045 --> 00:34:29,725
Speaker 1: day was this? You can't quite you know, you can't

630
00:34:29,805 --> 00:34:34,405
Speaker 1: quite remember the days. I just feel strongly, maybe you know,

631
00:34:34,485 --> 00:34:37,085
Speaker 1: everybody's fudging a little. JB might even be fudging about

632
00:34:37,125 --> 00:34:39,645
Speaker 1: how close. Although no, he said it was a couple

633
00:34:39,605 --> 00:34:42,205
Speaker 1: of nights. It was that weekend. Chris and JB's stories

634
00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:43,765
Speaker 1: fit together, do you know what I mean? They do?

635
00:34:43,845 --> 00:34:46,285
Speaker 1: They fit perfect. And he even said, you know, I

636
00:34:46,285 --> 00:34:48,205
Speaker 1: thought it was him, I said, And JB's like he

637
00:34:48,285 --> 00:34:50,205
Speaker 1: thought it was me, And that's Pistoph wanted to kick

638
00:34:50,245 --> 00:34:53,125
Speaker 1: his ass. We get back to the car and Taylor

639
00:34:53,165 --> 00:34:57,765
Speaker 1: and I are still shaking. We either just met with

640
00:34:57,845 --> 00:35:02,005
Speaker 1: a murderer or someone who has been wrongly accused of murder.

641
00:35:07,725 --> 00:35:28,525
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. After speaking with Chris, we head

642
00:35:28,565 --> 00:35:30,845
Speaker 1: back to the house and meet George Jared to go

643
00:35:30,885 --> 00:35:33,365
Speaker 1: over the murder board and unpack what Chris told us.

644
00:35:34,165 --> 00:35:37,525
Speaker 1: So let's say this theory is correct, that Chris killed

645
00:35:37,525 --> 00:35:40,245
Speaker 1: Rebecca while he was on some crazy drug rage and

646
00:35:40,325 --> 00:35:44,805
Speaker 1: upset about Rebecca denying his sexual advances. Was there anything

647
00:35:44,845 --> 00:35:47,445
Speaker 1: in the autopsy report to indicate that this could have

648
00:35:47,445 --> 00:35:50,445
Speaker 1: been a meth murder? Doctor Gould, and I've actually gone

649
00:35:50,445 --> 00:35:53,485
Speaker 1: back and forth on this particular detail. There is no

650
00:35:53,525 --> 00:35:55,965
Speaker 1: indication she was sexually assaulted. Do you remember it's two

651
00:35:55,965 --> 00:35:59,525
Speaker 1: thousand and four. It's you know, like DNA testing stuff

652
00:35:59,565 --> 00:36:02,245
Speaker 1: like that. The techniques for collecting DNA not as advanced

653
00:36:02,245 --> 00:36:06,445
Speaker 1: as they are obviously today. The decomposition factor, it was

654
00:36:06,565 --> 00:36:08,885
Speaker 1: late September, and I can and I remember vividly it

655
00:36:08,925 --> 00:36:12,765
Speaker 1: was very hot during that time period, so that the

656
00:36:12,805 --> 00:36:16,325
Speaker 1: decomposition would have been more rapid. Now doctor Gold seems

657
00:36:16,325 --> 00:36:18,005
Speaker 1: to think it's still a possibility that she may have

658
00:36:18,085 --> 00:36:22,365
Speaker 1: been sexually assaulted, and ed she may have been. I mean,

659
00:36:22,405 --> 00:36:25,205
Speaker 1: he obviously knows more about the human body than I do.

660
00:36:26,085 --> 00:36:28,125
Speaker 1: But I just got you know, this is kind of

661
00:36:28,125 --> 00:36:30,605
Speaker 1: the way I operate. Let's just operate from facts, and

662
00:36:31,525 --> 00:36:34,325
Speaker 1: as of right now, there is no evidence of it,

663
00:36:34,605 --> 00:36:37,565
Speaker 1: so I can't assume that it happened. And it also

664
00:36:37,765 --> 00:36:39,205
Speaker 1: just I think for the simple fact that if you

665
00:36:39,285 --> 00:36:41,325
Speaker 1: are on math, I mean it can make you. The

666
00:36:41,325 --> 00:36:43,525
Speaker 1: crimes I've seen that have been committed while people on

667
00:36:43,645 --> 00:36:46,765
Speaker 1: eth are just like something out of a horror movie.

668
00:36:46,845 --> 00:36:49,685
Speaker 1: You know, it takes it to another level. The story

669
00:36:49,725 --> 00:36:52,925
Speaker 1: you're about to hear is horrific. If you're easily disturbed,

670
00:36:53,045 --> 00:36:55,285
Speaker 1: I recommend you skip ahead a minute and a half.

671
00:37:02,565 --> 00:37:05,765
Speaker 1: I'm back in nineteen ninety eight. There was a family

672
00:37:05,765 --> 00:37:09,645
Speaker 1: of foreign Dalton. A friend is having car trouble. The

673
00:37:09,765 --> 00:37:12,085
Speaker 1: father gets up. He's a pretty good mechanic. He goes

674
00:37:12,085 --> 00:37:15,165
Speaker 1: with his friend down to the river. Within a few minutes,

675
00:37:15,205 --> 00:37:17,885
Speaker 1: he's shot in the head twice, thrown in the river.

676
00:37:18,565 --> 00:37:21,245
Speaker 1: The killer comes back to the house. The little boy

677
00:37:21,285 --> 00:37:23,845
Speaker 1: comes running up to the door. The killer has a

678
00:37:23,885 --> 00:37:27,005
Speaker 1: tire tool in his hand. He crushes that kid's head

679
00:37:27,085 --> 00:37:29,845
Speaker 1: like an eggshell. The mom comes running in to try

680
00:37:29,845 --> 00:37:33,525
Speaker 1: to stop him, and he hits her twenty seven times

681
00:37:33,525 --> 00:37:40,645
Speaker 1: with the tire tool. Twenty seven times. Then he goes

682
00:37:40,685 --> 00:37:43,005
Speaker 1: into the room where the little girl's hiding under her bed.

683
00:37:43,365 --> 00:37:47,565
Speaker 1: He drops the tire tool in her stuffed animals. He

684
00:37:47,645 --> 00:37:50,005
Speaker 1: pulls her out from under the bed, wraps around a blanket,

685
00:37:50,045 --> 00:37:52,885
Speaker 1: and throws her in the back of a car. As

686
00:37:52,965 --> 00:37:56,045
Speaker 1: the killer is getting ready to leave, he notices something

687
00:37:56,125 --> 00:37:59,085
Speaker 1: moving through the yard in the dark. It's the mom.

688
00:37:59,605 --> 00:38:02,045
Speaker 1: She woke up and she climbed out the kitchen window

689
00:38:02,085 --> 00:38:04,365
Speaker 1: and her parents lived next door. She was trying to

690
00:38:04,405 --> 00:38:07,325
Speaker 1: get to their house and when she did, she got

691
00:38:07,365 --> 00:38:09,125
Speaker 1: all the way to their front door on their porch.

692
00:38:09,485 --> 00:38:12,245
Speaker 1: There's a bloody handprint on the door. Her killer came

693
00:38:12,325 --> 00:38:14,965
Speaker 1: up behind her, slashed her throat from end to end.

694
00:38:17,005 --> 00:38:19,245
Speaker 1: And the guy that did that, and I go through

695
00:38:19,245 --> 00:38:25,285
Speaker 1: that whole theory high a meth. Yeah, it makes people insane.

696
00:38:25,725 --> 00:38:29,725
Speaker 1: Her murder is not it's it shot. Any murder shocking,

697
00:38:30,485 --> 00:38:33,285
Speaker 1: But it's not like the story I just told you

698
00:38:33,365 --> 00:38:36,365
Speaker 1: about what happened to the Eliat family. That is grotesque.

699
00:38:36,565 --> 00:38:38,205
Speaker 1: I mean, you hear a story like that and you're like,

700
00:38:38,245 --> 00:38:42,445
Speaker 1: oh my god, and you won't stop thinking about it.

701
00:38:42,605 --> 00:38:44,125
Speaker 1: What happened to her is she got hitting ahead a

702
00:38:44,125 --> 00:38:45,765
Speaker 1: couple of times and everybody was dumped on the side

703
00:38:45,765 --> 00:38:51,325
Speaker 1: of the road. It's not it's not a profoundly heinous crime,

704
00:38:51,365 --> 00:38:53,885
Speaker 1: I guess, is what I'm trying to She wasn't to

705
00:38:54,165 --> 00:38:57,925
Speaker 1: as far as she wasn't brutally sexually assaulted. So to me,

706
00:38:58,125 --> 00:39:00,485
Speaker 1: it's one of these crimes. Okay, it's not. There's not

707
00:39:00,485 --> 00:39:03,285
Speaker 1: a lot of complicated moving parts here like that case.

708
00:39:03,325 --> 00:39:04,965
Speaker 1: There's a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of

709
00:39:05,045 --> 00:39:07,805
Speaker 1: dead people and missing people, and this is a whole thing.

710
00:39:08,405 --> 00:39:12,605
Speaker 1: So in her case, it's not like that. Right now,

711
00:39:13,165 --> 00:39:16,765
Speaker 1: I believe Chris, which means we have to go back

712
00:39:16,805 --> 00:39:19,845
Speaker 1: and get everyone's stories on our own, explore all the

713
00:39:19,885 --> 00:39:23,845
Speaker 1: possible suspects until we find the theory that sticks and

714
00:39:23,885 --> 00:39:29,605
Speaker 1: we can bring Rebecca's killer to justice. So you've talked

715
00:39:29,605 --> 00:39:31,965
Speaker 1: to JB already, I mean, do you think he had

716
00:39:31,965 --> 00:39:34,245
Speaker 1: anything to do with it? No, I've ruled him out.

717
00:39:34,325 --> 00:39:37,285
Speaker 1: I mean, I again, I'm following the evidence. I really,

718
00:39:37,565 --> 00:39:40,565
Speaker 1: in my mind, he's been ruled out because for several reasons.

719
00:39:40,565 --> 00:39:43,365
Speaker 1: I mean, number one, he was in cab at that weekend.

720
00:39:43,565 --> 00:39:48,405
Speaker 1: His story makes sense. And also I do give him

721
00:39:48,445 --> 00:39:51,245
Speaker 1: credit for the fact that he voluntarily he didn't have

722
00:39:51,245 --> 00:39:52,965
Speaker 1: to respond to any of the social media stuff. He

723
00:39:53,085 --> 00:39:56,325
Speaker 1: was calling me and tracking me down and being very

724
00:39:56,365 --> 00:39:58,125
Speaker 1: available to meet with me and trying to get me

725
00:39:58,165 --> 00:40:00,045
Speaker 1: to meet with him, And that says a lot because

726
00:40:00,045 --> 00:40:01,965
Speaker 1: I feel like, if he was involved, why the hell

727
00:40:02,005 --> 00:40:07,045
Speaker 1: would he do that. That's what I expect for somebody

728
00:40:07,045 --> 00:40:10,565
Speaker 1: who is more or less being accused. You know, if

729
00:40:10,565 --> 00:40:12,925
Speaker 1: people are saying, hey, you know JB had something to

730
00:40:12,925 --> 00:40:14,445
Speaker 1: do it, that's how I I mean, that's how I

731
00:40:14,485 --> 00:40:16,205
Speaker 1: would act too. I'd be like, hey, let me tell

732
00:40:16,245 --> 00:40:18,805
Speaker 1: you what went down for real. You want it out

733
00:40:18,805 --> 00:40:22,325
Speaker 1: there that you didn't do that. And this murder just

734
00:40:22,565 --> 00:40:26,325
Speaker 1: nothing indicates that it was drug related in the sense

735
00:40:26,325 --> 00:40:28,365
Speaker 1: that it was about drugs. It was a crime of

736
00:40:28,445 --> 00:40:30,325
Speaker 1: passion one way or the other. It was a crime

737
00:40:30,365 --> 00:40:35,605
Speaker 1: of passion. I think that they genuinely thought that Chris

738
00:40:35,685 --> 00:40:37,845
Speaker 1: might have had something to do with it, and also

739
00:40:38,205 --> 00:40:41,765
Speaker 1: perhaps the thought was, well, he's a bad guy, he

740
00:40:41,845 --> 00:40:45,725
Speaker 1: deals drugs, he's on drugs. It was just really easy

741
00:40:45,765 --> 00:40:48,245
Speaker 1: to sort of slot him into that and say maybe

742
00:40:48,245 --> 00:40:50,725
Speaker 1: he did it. And we really don't even know why

743
00:40:51,165 --> 00:40:53,485
Speaker 1: he got accused of it. Well, I still don't understand why.

744
00:40:53,565 --> 00:40:56,045
Speaker 1: I mean, and granted the police aren't sharing evidence, so

745
00:40:56,645 --> 00:40:59,885
Speaker 1: there could be evidence we don't know about, but I mean,

746
00:41:00,845 --> 00:41:04,645
Speaker 1: I really have no idea why he was named as

747
00:41:04,645 --> 00:41:07,125
Speaker 1: a suspect. It's even possible that when the police were

748
00:41:07,125 --> 00:41:10,005
Speaker 1: doing their initial interviews, they heard the same rumors. Well,

749
00:41:10,125 --> 00:41:12,085
Speaker 1: we're all here in you know, but it really is

750
00:41:12,285 --> 00:41:16,045
Speaker 1: It's terrible that their names are still getting texted. When

751
00:41:16,045 --> 00:41:18,405
Speaker 1: I say, does anybody have any names, some of the

752
00:41:18,405 --> 00:41:21,205
Speaker 1: same names get texted to me. If it's proven they

753
00:41:21,245 --> 00:41:23,845
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. Think about that living

754
00:41:23,845 --> 00:41:28,085
Speaker 1: in a community where everybody thinks you killed somebody or

755
00:41:28,125 --> 00:41:30,365
Speaker 1: you had something to do with it, and your name

756
00:41:30,445 --> 00:41:32,525
Speaker 1: was kind of getting brought up as being connected to

757
00:41:32,565 --> 00:41:34,485
Speaker 1: this and you had nothing to do with it. I mean,

758
00:41:34,525 --> 00:41:36,565
Speaker 1: even if you did do drugs or something, that's a

759
00:41:36,645 --> 00:41:40,645
Speaker 1: whole different thing than murdering someone. I feel like it

760
00:41:40,645 --> 00:41:43,565
Speaker 1: would be a huge weight lifted off. This town shoulders

761
00:41:43,605 --> 00:41:47,525
Speaker 1: to have this thing finally put to rest. So we

762
00:41:47,645 --> 00:41:51,405
Speaker 1: have the murder weapon, a piano leg and we know

763
00:41:51,485 --> 00:41:53,845
Speaker 1: it took just a single blow to the head to

764
00:41:53,925 --> 00:41:58,325
Speaker 1: kill Rebecca. We've tracked down the prime suspects and don't

765
00:41:58,365 --> 00:42:00,765
Speaker 1: think they did it. Now we just have to find

766
00:42:00,765 --> 00:42:23,125
Speaker 1: out who did. I'm Catherine Townsend and this Helen Gone.

767
00:42:25,325 --> 00:42:28,525
Speaker 1: Helen Gone is a joint production between How Stuff Works

768
00:42:28,685 --> 00:42:31,685
Speaker 1: and School of Humans. It is written and recorded by

769
00:42:31,725 --> 00:42:35,965
Speaker 1: me Catherine Townsend Taylor Church is our producer and story editor.

770
00:42:36,565 --> 00:42:41,325
Speaker 1: Audio editing and designed by Jonathan Sleeve, mix engineer Glenn Mattulo,

771
00:42:42,045 --> 00:42:46,725
Speaker 1: Audio mixing and love by Tunewelders. Executive producers Brandon Barr

772
00:42:46,765 --> 00:42:50,085
Speaker 1: and Else Crowley for School of Humans and Connell Byrne

773
00:42:50,125 --> 00:42:53,645
Speaker 1: and Chuck Bryant for How Stuff Works. Our field producer

774
00:42:53,805 --> 00:42:58,565
Speaker 1: is James Morrison. Our researcher is Sandy Klosterman. Theme and

775
00:42:58,645 --> 00:43:02,765
Speaker 1: original score by Ben Solee, available wherever you get your music.

776
00:43:05,605 --> 00:43:10,205
Speaker 1: To dig into the investigation, please visit hellgoonpodcast dot com

777
00:43:10,325 --> 00:43:23,325
Speaker 1: or follow us on social media. School of Humans