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Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan.

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Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 3: For years, the Alec Murdoch case has felt less like

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Speaker 3: one crime story and more like a Southern Gothic nightmare.

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Speaker 1: A powerful legal dynasty, financial.

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Speaker 3: Fraud, addiction, mysterious deaths, a fatal boat crash, a staged

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Speaker 3: roadside shooting, and ultimately, the shocking murders of Maggie and

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Speaker 3: Paul Murdoch at the family's hunting estate in South Carolina.

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Speaker 3: In twenty twenty three, Alec Murdoch was convicted of murdering

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Speaker 3: his wife and son and sentenced to life in prison.

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Speaker 3: But now, in a stunning twist, the South Carolina Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court has overturned those murder convictions, ruling that former Colton

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Speaker 3: County Clerk of Court, Becky Hill, improperly influenced the jury

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Speaker 3: and denied Murdock a fair trial. At the same time,

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Speaker 3: journalist and podcaster Mandy Mattney has been pulled into a

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Speaker 3: separate contempt fight connected to a deposition dispute. Today, Mandy

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Speaker 3: returns to Killer Thriller to help us break down the

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Speaker 3: latest bombshell developments and one of the most complicated and bizarre.

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Speaker 1: True crime sagas in America. Oh, Mandy, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: I let me just say first of all, when you

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Speaker 3: know you are our very first guests on this podcast,

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Speaker 3: you and Liz, and when I said we are going

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Speaker 3: to have you back, and we all said yay, I

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Speaker 3: in no way, shape or form thought this would be

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Speaker 3: the circumstances under which you would be back here.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, we have a lot to cover here.

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Speaker 3: But first, when nah Alec Murdoch's murder conviction was overturned,

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Speaker 3: what was your immediate reaction?

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Speaker 2: Well, I knew about it a few weeks ago. We

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Speaker 2: had so I did, and we reported it on our

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Speaker 2: podcast Through Sunlight a few weeks ago. Our sources were

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Speaker 2: always good and they still are. Just have to say that.

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Speaker 2: But so I at least had like a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks to kind of come to terms with it and

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Speaker 2: like feel uh, you know, let the emotions go through

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Speaker 2: the motions of the whole thing. And so when it happened,

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Speaker 2: I was not shocked. Was I angry though, yes, And

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Speaker 2: was like reality hitting me that this story that I

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Speaker 2: feel like I've been trapped in or like I I'm

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Speaker 2: sure on the last podcast we discussed like I was

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Speaker 2: really ready to break free. I thought the whou was

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Speaker 2: like a book, and a nice bookend of that part

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Speaker 2: of my story and that part of my life. And

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Speaker 2: so it's just been coming to terms with like we're

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Speaker 2: opening up all those chapters again and nothing is ever over.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine how you feel because I feel

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Speaker 3: that way from it, outside of it, Like it just keeps.

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Speaker 1: This is like yet another turn with this whole saga.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, did you really did you initially think

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Speaker 3: when he was convicted that this was a possibility that

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Speaker 3: they would control.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I really didn't, and I have I haven't been

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Speaker 2: asked that question. And I really thought that everything was

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Speaker 2: so solid in the trial. I mean, the trial was

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Speaker 2: six weeks long, it was very extensive. Creighton Waters did

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Speaker 2: a fantastic job, and I thought Judge Newman did a

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Speaker 2: fantastic job. This doesn't happen often, but at that point

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Speaker 2: I was proud of the South Carolina justice system and

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Speaker 2: I was really thought everything was solid. I was I

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Speaker 2: expected Alex's attorneys Dick and Jim to find something wrong

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Speaker 2: with it, right. They They are very expensive, well resourced

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Speaker 2: attorneys that can turn over every single leaf in a trial,

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Speaker 2: and they have that money in time to do so.

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Speaker 2: I saw this coming from when the Supreme Court had

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Speaker 2: their hearing in February, and I could tell the justices

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Speaker 2: were all on his side. And that is when I

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Speaker 2: really like knew that it was a possibility. Knew that

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Speaker 2: it was a big possibility. And there was just moments

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Speaker 2: where they were almost helping him in that hearing, and

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Speaker 2: it was just kind of weird. There was a moment

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Speaker 2: where one of the Supreme Court justices called him Elick

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Speaker 2: like by his first name instead of the defendant or

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Speaker 2: mister murder Like. I was worrying to him as his

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Speaker 2: buddy elc and I was just like this word, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, we're screwed.

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Speaker 3: So this whole thing they they didn't just so this

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Speaker 3: is regarding Becky Hill. The first of all, how unusual

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Speaker 3: is this for a court clerk to have any influence

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Speaker 3: over a jury at all? And they use very strong

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Speaker 3: language and Supreme Court saying things like shocking jury interference

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Speaker 3: and she quote placed her fingers on the scale of Justice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so what are they talking about, Oh, the Becky

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Speaker 2: Hills story. So yes, all of this is extremely unusual

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Speaker 2: and it all goes back to Becky's book coming out

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Speaker 2: in I believe July of twenty twenty three, So a

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Speaker 2: couple months after the murder, after Alex Murdoch was convicted,

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Speaker 2: the clerk of court came out with a tell all

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Speaker 2: book about the trial, like that it does not happen,

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Speaker 2: is not And that's like where all problems kind of

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Speaker 2: start to bubble up. And I really would like to

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Speaker 2: know at this point who encouraged her to write this book,

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Speaker 2: because this book obviously made her an easy target that like,

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Speaker 2: this lady does not follow the rules. There was somebody

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Speaker 2: who compete unethical in this trial, and so it gave

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Speaker 2: Dick and Jim permission, those are the attorneys to dig

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Speaker 2: into everybody in the jury, and they went to they

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Speaker 2: knocked on the doors of their houses and asked, like,

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Speaker 2: did Becky influence you in any way, shape or form,

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Speaker 2: And all of them except for one said no. They said,

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Speaker 2: I came up with my verdict on my own because

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Speaker 2: of the evidence. Becky had nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 2: Like they said, yeah, she was a little weird and like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: she had like decorations and things, like.

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Speaker 1: She she decorated her desk.

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Speaker 2: Right, and like she obviously used this case as like

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Speaker 2: she thought it was like her ticket out, you know,

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Speaker 2: or like her ticket to money and fame, and like

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Speaker 2: she thought that she she's a very she's a small

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Speaker 2: town clerk of court and had never seen anything or

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Speaker 2: the publicly right, so public or the college in County

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Speaker 2: has never gotten our most cases never get like a

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Speaker 2: fraction of the attention that the Murdock case got, you know,

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Speaker 2: So she felt important for several months there where like

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Speaker 2: journalists were bub buddying up to her trying to get

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Speaker 2: the scoop. Like she felt like she had power of

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Speaker 2: like who has press passes and who doesn't in the case,

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Speaker 2: and like she was definitely power hunger like and I

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Speaker 2: saw that too, Like Liz and I joked at the

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Speaker 2: during the trial, Becky was like using press passes like

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Speaker 2: backstage passes. We called her backstage. We called her backstage

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Speaker 2: Becky because she was like, oh my god, one like

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Speaker 2: she was using it.

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Speaker 1: This seems absurd. That's like a circus, is she?

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Speaker 3: I Just like I'm struck that you could even I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm not surprised she could get a book deal. I

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Speaker 3: feel like anybody that thinks I can sell something, but

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Speaker 3: it seems illegal because she is she allowed.

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Speaker 2: To do any of those things, so right, and she

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Speaker 2: went to the South Carolina Ethics Commission. And this also

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Speaker 2: goes back to the fact that, like we have very

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Speaker 2: very weak rules when it comes to ethics in South Carolina,

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Speaker 2: and Becky is a part of a system where everybody

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Speaker 2: is so used to bending the rules and getting away

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Speaker 2: with it, Like Becky is not the first clerk of

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Speaker 2: court to be inappropriate or break the rules or been

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Speaker 2: the rules by all means, like this is a whole

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Speaker 2: system well constantly. I mean, Becky did it in a

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Speaker 2: very very stupid and public way. But so she is

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Speaker 2: accused of like like you said, the justices really came

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Speaker 2: down hard on her and said she had a finger

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Speaker 2: on the scales of justice in this case. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, she was criminally charged with a few things,

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Speaker 2: but never jury tampering, and she was she was never

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Speaker 2: convicted of jury tampering. So that's like really important to

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Speaker 2: know and still to this day, like besides one juror

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Speaker 2: who flip flopped back and forth, and like again, she

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Speaker 2: only said that her jur her verdict was interfered with

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Speaker 2: after Dick and Jim came knocking on her door and

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Speaker 2: asking her to sign an affidavit and asking her, you know,

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Speaker 2: like and so you have this one juror that said

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Speaker 2: like a yeah, maybe Becky did say something weird, or

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Speaker 2: like maybe yeah, Becky did influence me, you know, and

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Speaker 2: then she went back and forth. So all of this

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Speaker 2: is because of that. But there was never anything like

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Speaker 2: incredibly solid, and this is important to know, there's never

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Speaker 2: any thing like incredibly solid that they ever pinned down

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Speaker 2: that she actually tampered with the jury or influenced the

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Speaker 2: verdict at any point. And also the jury all swore,

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Speaker 2: after swore to Judge Newman after they rendered their verdict,

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Speaker 2: that they were that they came to that conclusion on

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Speaker 2: their own, like they all and that So what I'm

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Speaker 2: worried about at this point, And sorry, I don't even

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Speaker 2: know what the question was.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you're answering it, you're answering it.

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Speaker 2: But like, my what my concern is is what does

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Speaker 2: this tell other defense attorneys who have like lots of

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Speaker 2: money once they get a jury verdict that they do

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Speaker 2: not agree with that they can just go knocking on

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Speaker 2: jurors doors. And right, that is the problem, you know,

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Speaker 2: like there's there's something really important. I've talked to lawyers

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Speaker 2: about this. So with the finality of a verdict, you know, like.

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Speaker 3: That's what our legal system is for, that's what they say,

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Speaker 3: and if you want to change it, then you have to,

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Speaker 3: you know, have a neutrial, Like I just it seems

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Speaker 3: crazy to me the night.

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Speaker 1: It's like co very, coercive.

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Speaker 2: It does. And like, yes, Becky was dumb and like

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Speaker 2: her book was stupid, like she she did she asked

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Speaker 2: the South Carolina f ex Commission, like can I write

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Speaker 2: this book? And they basically said, like we advise against it,

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Speaker 2: but like don't do X, Y and Z. And she

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Speaker 2: broke all the role, like she did everything with people,

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Speaker 2: like she was just in it. You could see it

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Speaker 2: so clearly. I've gone through our emails. I've gone through

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Speaker 2: like I have unfortunately dug way into Becky Hill and

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Speaker 2: like is she you see just this small town clerk

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Speaker 2: accurt who got a little bit of power and got

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Speaker 2: a little bit of fame, and like she went on

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Speaker 2: the Today Show right after the verdict with the jurors

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Speaker 2: and that was her first time that she had ever

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Speaker 2: been on a plane.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: So like think about how small world was and.

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Speaker 1: How like, yeah, how exciting that all was right, and how.

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Speaker 2: It's it could be easy to get swept up and

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Speaker 2: think like, this is my chance. I got to write

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Speaker 2: a book and I got to do all of these things.

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Speaker 2: And who knows who was pressuring her to to like

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Speaker 2: appear to be super unethical, because.

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Speaker 1: Well, right, that's what I was going to ask, is that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose there's no way to nobody will

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Speaker 3: ever admit it. But it feels like where Alex's attorney's going,

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Speaker 3: you know, paying her off or something. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: just seems like so possible, the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: It's it's just very shocking, but not shocking because all

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Speaker 2: along on the Murdoch Martyrs podcast, we've said two systems

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Speaker 2: of justice, right, and like it was all shocking to

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Speaker 2: us that he was convicted to begin with, just because

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Speaker 2: of our system in the way that it is. And

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Speaker 2: so yeah, I really did not foresee an appeal, especially

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Speaker 2: this quickly. I always thought appeals took a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I guess we're three years out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah further.

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Speaker 3: So okay, So now that they have been overturned the

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Speaker 3: murder convictions, what happens next procedurally.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. So Attorney General Alan Wilson has

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Speaker 2: said he's going to retry the case. He does not

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Speaker 2: have to recharge him because it does not charge it

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Speaker 2: does not like take the charges away. But and he

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Speaker 2: also has said that the death penalty is now on

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Speaker 2: the table. But there's also background here at Attorney General

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Speaker 2: Alan Wilson, who's the like in charge of the prosecution

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Speaker 2: on the case, he is running for governor right now,

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Speaker 2: so that makes a different that makes a different factor, right.

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Speaker 2: He is obviously motivated to puff's chest up and say

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Speaker 2: things like I'm going going to go for the death penalty,

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Speaker 2: and I'm gonna we want to get this done as

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Speaker 2: soon as possible, and we want to get this done

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Speaker 2: this year, is what he has said. But will day,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. So procedurally, I am not sure what

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Speaker 2: happens next, to be honest with you, but I'll tell

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Speaker 2: you this. Right before we got on the phone, right

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Speaker 2: before we started talking, Alex's attorneys filed a lawsuit against

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Speaker 2: Becky Hill on behalf of Alex Murdoch. So now we

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Speaker 2: have a federal lawsuit and it just keeps coming.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, do you think so.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'm going to say that the prosecutors they wanted

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Speaker 3: as aggressively this time as the last problem, I would

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Speaker 3: think more so.

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Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I mean I do think that the one

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Speaker 2: thing that's good about Alan Wilson running for governor is

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Speaker 2: that he is motivated to please the people, and I

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Speaker 2: think he will be motivated to get this done quickly

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Speaker 2: and correctly.

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Speaker 3: So do you think that people are emotionally separating two

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Speaker 3: ideas right now that like Alec probably did it versus

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Speaker 3: he may not have received a fair trial. Like I'm

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Speaker 3: always curious about those things, like this is where that

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Speaker 3: justice part is? So yeah, murky to me.

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Speaker 2: I was talking to a podcast from Ireland the other

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Speaker 2: day about this too, because I wrestled with that question

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Speaker 2: as well, Like what is a fair trial? It's the

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Speaker 2: right person is behind bars, and most of us believe

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Speaker 2: that the right person is behind bars and isn't that

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Speaker 2: what our justice system aims for the Other thing that

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Speaker 2: I can't really that I wrestle with and that I

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Speaker 2: can't really fully conclude, is like I don't think that this.

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Speaker 2: People love to say, like two things can exist at once.

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Speaker 2: He can be guilty, but he deserves a fair trial.

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Speaker 2: But it's not like this betters everybody in the system.

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Speaker 2: It's not right. It's not like every black person that

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Speaker 2: is that would have the exact same argument would get

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Speaker 2: the same outcome. It is not like a poor white

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Speaker 2: person would get the same outcome. It's Alex Murdock is

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Speaker 2: somebody with a lot of power and a lot of sway,

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Speaker 2: and that is a huge part of this outcome. So, like, yes,

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Speaker 2: was Becky inappropriate? Yes, does that necessarily mean that he

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Speaker 2: did not get a fair trial? I just can't really,

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Speaker 2: I can't come to that conclusion because I believe in

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Speaker 2: my art and soul that he did it, and I

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Speaker 2: believe that we have seen the evidence. And I'm also

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Speaker 2: a South Carolina tax fair I don't want to pay

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Speaker 2: for another trial.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean the amount of time and energy and

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Speaker 3: emotional strife and try all of that, But the actual

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Speaker 3: financial burden that this puts on this day, it's outrageous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, And then like you said, I do think,

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Speaker 2: I do think for the most part of majority people

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Speaker 2: are saying, Okay, the Supreme Court said what they said,

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Speaker 2: and maybe he does deserve a new trial, or he

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Speaker 2: does deserve a new trial, but I still believe that

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Speaker 2: he's guilty. I'm seeing a lot of that, But I

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Speaker 2: am also seeing a lot arise in the comments of like,

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Speaker 2: but did he do it? Which is which is hard.

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Speaker 2: I think we haven't seen any more evidence, Like there

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Speaker 2: has not been a shred of evidence since he was

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Speaker 2: convicted showing us that he was innocent, or showing us

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Speaker 2: that another person did it, or pointing us to any

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Speaker 2: other direction. There's not There has been nothing new in

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Speaker 2: all of us, and I feel like that's another like

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Speaker 2: solid point to get across. This does not mean that

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Speaker 2: he presented any new evidence, because he definitely didn't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the the kennel video, the confession lie, thing

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Speaker 3: like that. That's such a defining piece of the first trial.

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Speaker 3: And they can still, well they use that again. They

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Speaker 3: can use all of the same things, right they Nothing

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Speaker 3: is sort of exempt.

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Speaker 1: It's just they just have to have a new trial.

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Speaker 2: So unfortunately, the Supreme Court in their ruling said A,

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Speaker 2: we're giving you a new trial because of Becky, but

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Speaker 2: b we believed that too much of the financial crimes

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Speaker 2: was allowed in what.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that part of the motive. That's part of

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Speaker 1: goes to motive.

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Speaker 2: It goes directly to motive. And what I was talking

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Speaker 2: to my co host of Cove of Justice about a

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Speaker 2: long time South Carolina attorney, great attorney Eric Bland, who

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Speaker 2: he and I uncover the financial crimes together. He was like, this,

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Speaker 2: put this what the Supreme Court laid out, and their

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Speaker 2: ruling puts the next judge in a really really tough

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Speaker 2: position to allow any financial crimes in because then it's

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Speaker 2: immediately appealable.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's in my god of it because like it's

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Speaker 2: like you said, anyone who was paying attention understands how

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Speaker 2: it's not a far leap from the financial crimes to

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Speaker 2: the motive. You see the gathering storm, You see all

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Speaker 2: the pressure that he was facing in his life, and

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Speaker 2: that like his law firm was coming down on him

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Speaker 2: that day and he was being caught.

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Speaker 1: How can that not be allowed?

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Speaker 2: Why? And what? And it was weird the way that

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Speaker 2: they put it. They didn't they didn't necessarily say like,

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Speaker 2: they didn't say it's not allowed, but they said you

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Speaker 2: went too far and too hard on the financial crimes,

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Speaker 2: and an example of that, which I thought was really

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Speaker 2: weird was Tony Sadderfield's testimony, and he was it was

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Speaker 2: the only financial victim who testified.

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Speaker 1: He's the son correct of Gloria, and Gloria Sadden was.

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Speaker 3: Supposed to receive the money from the uh ALEC when

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Speaker 3: he did the reverse is another like.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, it's okay to explain that quickly.

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Speaker 1: I know it is, but I can't explain it.

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Speaker 2: You're doing a great job and it's really difficult, and like,

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Speaker 2: I've had to review so many things in the last

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks, so I'm like, what did happen there?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: So uh.

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Speaker 2: Tony Saderfield is the son of Gloria Sadderfield and Gloria

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Speaker 2: Sadderfield was the housekeeper and nanny, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people close to the Murdochs really credit Gloria for raising

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Speaker 2: the children, like she was a huge part of both

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Speaker 2: Bustering and Paul's lives. She was a part of the

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Speaker 2: Murdochs family, and Tony also considered Alex Murdoch like a

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Speaker 2: father figure, like somebody who he really looked up to.

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Speaker 2: So Gloria unfortunately died after allegedly falling on the Murdoch's property,

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Speaker 2: and that's a whole nother thing that has never been

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Speaker 2: completely there's no closed loops on that. But what we

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Speaker 2: do know is that Alex took that as an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to steal from her family, and he went to Gloria's

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Speaker 2: sons at the funeral and said, hey, look we can

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Speaker 2: get you money. Here's my buddy, Corey Fleming. He's going

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Speaker 2: to be your lawyer, and you guys are going to

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Speaker 2: assume me.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm such a stand up guy.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm such a stand up guy, and they were,

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Speaker 2: you know, confused, but also Alex, it's Alex Murdoch saying

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Speaker 2: that like his father, his father, grandfather, and great grandfather

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Speaker 2: were all prosecutors of that area. So the like the

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Speaker 2: I don't question Tony of like he was probably like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's weird, but that's fine. Sure, he did not get

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Speaker 2: any of that money. They settled for over four million

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Speaker 2: dollars against Alex Murdoch's insurance company, and Alex took the money. Also,

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Speaker 2: Tony was questioned because I had written an article that

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Speaker 2: Tony had seen that had been his only awareness of

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Speaker 2: the settlement existing. He had no idea. Alex kept telling him, hey, buddy, like,

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Speaker 2: if we're not getting there, like nothing's happening, don't worry

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Speaker 2: about it. I'll I'll tell you about it when it's settled.

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Speaker 2: And then he reads in the newspaper for my article,

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Speaker 2: and so he starts asking Alex questions in the spring

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one, like, hey, like, I read that

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Speaker 2: there's this this five hundred thousand dollars settlement, which is

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Speaker 2: just a part of it. And what really gets me

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Speaker 2: is that he could have just given them like ten

379
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Speaker 2: thousand dollars or like give him something, just a little

380
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Speaker 2: part of it, and they would have been over the moon.

381
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Speaker 2: Like these were boys working really, really hard. Gloria's Sun

382
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Speaker 2: got kicked out of his home during this time because

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Speaker 2: he couldn't afford to live there, Like they were struggling

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Speaker 2: so any ounce of money. But he was so incredibly

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Speaker 2: greedy and so incredibly short sighted that he didn't give

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Speaker 2: them a single dime. And so for the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: It's so despicable, it's almost it's it's unfathomable.

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Speaker 2: So for the Supreme Court right to say, like that

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Speaker 2: was way too much, you wed like hearing from that

390
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Speaker 2: guy that was over the top, and it just feels

391
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Speaker 2: like a slap in the face to the victims. It

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Speaker 2: feels like they don't care about the what it speaks

393
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Speaker 2: to the motive and what it like. Tony Sanderfield is

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Speaker 2: also like an example of like how despicable Alex Murdoch

395
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Speaker 2: can be. He looked this, He looked this young man

396
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Speaker 2: in the eyes who had just lost his mother and said,

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Speaker 2: I got you, don't worry, and then he stole from him.

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Speaker 3: How difficult is it do you think to see an

399
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Speaker 3: impartial jury now that this case has become so globally

400
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Speaker 3: famous and people have such big feelings about it.

401
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Speaker 2: You know, it's it's really it's literally. First of all,

402
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Speaker 2: it's impossible to seat a jury that is not aware

403
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Speaker 2: of this case, at least a jury. I'm sorry, but like,

404
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Speaker 2: if you have a sane mind in the state of

405
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Speaker 2: South Carolina you've heard of from are not case and

406
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Speaker 2: like and unless you're like real weird living and like

407
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Speaker 2: do we want those people as you're like living under

408
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Speaker 2: our literal rock. No, So like people that have already

409
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Speaker 2: built their opinions and had are aware of the case.

410
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Speaker 2: That's I don't think we can go anywhere in the

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Speaker 2: United States without that, maybe even like a good portion

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Speaker 2: of the world, that would be difficult. But can we

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Speaker 2: get an impartial jury, a jury that's able to look

414
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Speaker 2: at the facts and decide again if there's enough evidence

415
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Speaker 2: to convict him of double homicide, which is what this

416
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Speaker 2: case comes down to. I think that that's possible. I mean,

417
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Speaker 2: but I also feel like nowadays that's something that we

418
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Speaker 2: have to discuss with our jury system of like people

419
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: have heard, the true crime has evolved so much. People

420
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Speaker 2: are so much more involved in cases and know so

421
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Speaker 2: much more. Do we really want jurors who have never

422
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Speaker 2: heard of cases and do that?

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Speaker 3: Don't We all have, you know, minds that are that

424
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Speaker 3: can process a lot of information and be influenced by

425
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Speaker 3: like that sort of the you can't you have to

426
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Speaker 3: come to the table with some sort of you know,

427
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Speaker 3: opinions and moral work for things. And it doesn't mean

428
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Speaker 3: you can't be you should be influenced by what happens.

429
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Speaker 3: It's a confusing I don't know, it feels very unm

430
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Speaker 3: you know, imperfect to say the least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and that, But I do think, like you said,

432
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Speaker 2: and we need to think of like jurors do have

433
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Speaker 2: the ability to think of their opinions separate from them,

434
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Speaker 2: separate their opinions from what they're seeing in court and

435
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Speaker 2: the evidence, and decide from that. And I also do

436
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Speaker 2: think that the jurors didn't do that in this case.

437
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: I think that there was. I think that it's the

438
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: jury tampering that the Supreme Court is making out is

439
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 2: acting like happened existed. I think one of the jurors

440
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 2: would have said something before Dick and Jim came knocking

441
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: on their doors asking, you know, like, I think something

442
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: would have came out before the book. I think that

443
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: something would have come up if she was truly being

444
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: this like out of control.

445
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: We have to convict him, right, I Mean, it also

446
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 3: just seems so illogical that she could be in the

447
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: courtroom like.

448
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: PST, don't listen to the evidence. I mean, it's just

449
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: like ludicrous.

450
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: Right, and that they wouldn't. And I also I feel

451
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: bad for those chruers, like they they gave up six

452
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: weeks of their lives and came to a decision and

453
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: it's just kind of insulting for them and for I

454
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: feel like Judge Newman did a really great job and

455
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 2: it's unfortunate that this is reversed and he he's retired now,

456
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: so he's not going to come back, and so that's

457
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 2: another thing that's going to happen, and a new judge

458
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: and that's going to make a I think that's I

459
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: think this time is going to be very, very different.

460
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

461
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 3: So one of the things that you get into in

462
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: your podcast is the fear that this could retraumatize everyone

463
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: who's connected to the case all over again. And you've

464
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 3: spent obviously years talking to people that are connected to

465
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: this story.

466
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: So do you feel that people.

467
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: In South Carolina are emotionally exhausted by this whole case?

468
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do. I think that I think that they

469
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 2: take comfort in the fact that he's not getting out

470
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: of prison for the next few decades, because he should

471
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: die in prison just for the financial crimes alone, right, Yeah,

472
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: which like ninety.

473
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: Make that clear that he isn't he won't be released

474
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: from prison because of this.

475
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: He's still and that's a huge part to discuss with

476
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: the process. He is, like he has twenty seven years

477
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: in state prison for his financial crimes, in forty years

478
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: in federal prison for his federal financial crimes. Like that's

479
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: a pretty solid he can't be behind bars forever. So

480
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: I think they do take comfort in that. I do,

481
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: but I also think, yeah, they're exhausted by it. And yeah,

482
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: most people think that he's guilty, so they're like, why

483
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: are we doing why are we doing this?

484
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what I was just going to ask.

485
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: Are we over this?

486
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, aren't we over this? And again if this

487
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: was if this was a situation, I would feel a

488
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: whole lot differently about it if there was new evidence,

489
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: Like I also see datelines in twenty twenties of like

490
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: people who do deserve to get a new trial because

491
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: of various reasons and don't get it across the country,

492
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: not just in South Carolina. But I mean, I have

493
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: no idea how many people innocent people are in prison

494
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: in our system. But as we were talking about, like,

495
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: we know it's not perfect, and we know I know

496
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: that the there's a lot more people that deserve another trial,

497
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: more so than Alex. Like I've seen cases where like

498
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: DNA has basically exonerated a person and it still takes

499
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: years for them to get a new trial.

500
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: Yep, if they do, it's so upsetting to me.

501
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: It's just really really upsetting.

502
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: So before we get into the contempt hearing that you

503
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: are currently involved in, which also outrages me, one thing

504
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: that you know that people forget is how quickly alec

505
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: He started unraveling publicly after the murders. There were the

506
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: financial theft allegations, the roadside shooting, the opioid addiction claims.

507
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: So how much of this case do you think.

508
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: Is really just about privilege and power protecting people for decades,

509
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: all of it.

510
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that it's really impossible to talk

511
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: about this case in a responsible way that helps people

512
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: understand what's going on without talking about power and privilege.

513
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: I mean, this man, his family was the law in

514
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: South Carolina, and we can't like get past we can't

515
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: like I remember, we covered stories on the murderch Murders

516
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: podcast of like his father, his father got him out

517
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: of everything that he ever did, and he would so

518
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: many people would tell me. He would joke, like, my

519
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: daddy's a solicitor, I can do whatever I want, and

520
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: like my family is the law in South Carolina. Sorry

521
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: for my bad accent. I'm not trying to insult Southern people.

522
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: Just Alex Murdoch. By the way, but like, yeah, it's

523
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: a when it come. When you really look at this

524
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: case and everything about it and why people so fascinated

525
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: by it, I think it's a man that was given

526
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: so much power and privilege his entire life and believed

527
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: that he could get away with anything, and he's still

528
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: doing that. Like I still think that he believes that

529
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: he's going to wiggle his way out of all of this.

530
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: Right, he's quite literally above the law, just right.

531
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: But the system has created that monster. It's not like

532
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: it came out of nowhere.

533
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

534
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: Do you think that all this media attention ultimately helped

535
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: to expose corruption in South Carolina or did it just

536
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 3: create chaos around the trial?

537
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: I think it helped expose it. I think at the

538
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 2: end of the day, I think that again, our prosecution

539
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: did the best that they possibly could have done, and

540
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: what happened with Becky was not their fault at all.

541
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: I think that they because the eyes in the world

542
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: of the world were on them, they really really cared

543
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: to do a great job. And yeah, I mean I

544
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: think that it does help, but it's also really frustrating

545
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: when you uncover corruption and you show everybody and then

546
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: like people in California are outraged, and people in Wisconsin

547
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: are outraged, and people in Italy are outraged. But it's

548
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: still like I need the people, the few people in

549
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: power in this state to see it, you know, like

550
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: it does help. But at the same time, it gets

551
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: so frustrating when we're all like we see it, don't

552
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: you see it? It's so messed up. I mean, like,

553
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: what have you heard with it? Like what has you

554
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: been like as you have seen in the last week

555
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: the reaction to the case. What have you seen?

556
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: I mean everyone is outraged.

557
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 3: I mean the amount of people that are sending me

558
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: all the articles like did.

559
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: You see this? Did you see this kid? You believe it?

560
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: You know? Uh yeah, I mean everyone thinks that he's

561
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 3: guilty and it's ridiculous, Like that's what that's generally what

562
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: the feeling is. And then a fascination again because here

563
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: we go again, here is yet one more tributary, and

564
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: this whole thing that is just gonna it just keeps.

565
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 3: It's like it has more and more tentacles, this whole family.

566
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: And I think anytime I went back and watched one

567
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 3: of the documentaries and I was like, God, it's just.

568
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: It's all right there, it's all right there. He basically

569
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: says it in court on the stand. You know, they

570
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: he's guilty. It's just like it's uh, it's kind of unreal. Yeah. Yes,

571
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: that's a long witted way of saying.

572
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: Everyone that I have ever spoken to about this things,

573
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: he's guilty.

574
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: Right, And like it's funny because they say one thing

575
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: to me, right, and like what I see and com

576
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: I try to limit myself and not get too crazy

577
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 2: with looking through Facebook comments, but it's the same thing

578
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: when I've what I've seen, Like I think that overwhelmingly

579
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: people see it, and we all saw it in the trial.

580
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: And like you said, like during the trial, first of all,

581
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: he testified, which is supposed to decrease your chances of

582
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 2: getting an appeal. It's supposed to like when you testified.

583
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm probably saying it wrong for lawyers will

584
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: probably correct me. But I remember my lawyer friends were

585
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: saying at the time, like basically, because when you when

586
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: you testify, like you're rolling a big, big dice, and

587
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: you are, you're also convincing, like you're also giving a

588
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: lot of wiggle room for the jury to say, I

589
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: believe what he did. I believe he did it because

590
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: of what you said, which is what happened, Like a

591
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: lot of them said. His testimony convinced me his testimony

592
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: in the kennel video, because it all comes down to,

593
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: like he could not explain why he was there at

594
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: the kennels right before they were murdered, and then lied

595
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: about it about.

596
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: You how, I mean, yeah, I don't know, how do you.

597
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: Get past that? And like it's it's also I guess

598
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: that's reassuring for whatever happens with the new trial if

599
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: nothing about if for some reason, nothing about like the

600
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: motive is allowed in I mean, you still have that,

601
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: and that's pretty damning and hard to get past of,

602
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: like why were you there? What do you know? Why

603
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: did you lie about it?

604
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: And also that there's no other evidence.

605
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 3: They've never presented someone exactly some other reason, right.

606
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 2: Another theory, right, I mean, before trial, it was a

607
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: big question if they were going to blame like drug

608
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: dealers or like the cartel. You know, that was a

609
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 2: big rumor, Yeah, blame the cartel, And I was kind

610
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: of surprised that they didn't. They still have never offered

611
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: anything like that because even that like makes it and

612
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: I don't believe that, but like it makes a lot

613
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: more sense than you have this guy who was there

614
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: right before they were murdered, and there's evidence showing that

615
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 2: he's right there, and he claims that he like ran

616
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: into his house and took a nap while they were

617
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 2: while his family and.

618
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: Then like put the clothes out.

619
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 3: There were so many weird, right tales of the case

620
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: that you're like, this makes no sense.

621
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: Right and unless you's house and at nine o'clock at night,

622
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: like and was going seventy miles an hour on a

623
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: country like there's all these things that is like what

624
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: and drove past Maggie's phone? How do you drive past

625
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: Maggie's like or gotta go down all of these stupid

626
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: rabbit holes again? But it all like and I know

627
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: that everybody. The biggest criticism that I've ever gotten is

628
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: that I'm biased. And it's like I've been very open

629
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: to hearing other theories that make sense and seeing other

630
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: evidence that would makes sense.

631
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 3: Isn't bias more defined by when you don't? It's like

632
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 3: a you have actual evidence and experience of research, which

633
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a different word.

634
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: That's just it.

635
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 1: You're educated on the big facts.

636
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: Right, an educated opinion, right, Like, and I'm fine with

637
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: telling people that, like, here's everything that I've known about

638
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: this guy, and like, I really believe that he did it,

639
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: and I think that there's enough evidence to believe that

640
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: other for another jury again to believe that he did it.

641
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: Will they be able to bring in the boat crash

642
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: and Mallory Beach's death and all of that.

643
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: Will they be allowed to bring that?

644
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 2: It's a financial part, right, Like, it's a part of

645
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: the financial pressure that he was facing. So I think

646
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: that circling back to your last question, probably we're going

647
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: to have some hearings about what's going to be allowed

648
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 2: in and what isn't before the trial. And I will

649
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 2: be very interested because of the wording that the Supreme

650
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: Court gave how careful they're going to be with allowing anything.

651
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, the boat crash was a huge part of it.

652
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: There's just all of these crazy events going on in

653
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: this man's life that led to the moment where I

654
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: believe he killed his wife and son. And I will

655
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: also say this, I just don't understand for the life

656
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: of me, how in other cases that we've seen, like

657
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: cheating is always an easy motive for people to believe,

658
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, he was cheating or she was cheating,

659
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: so of course he killed his wife, Like wanting a

660
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 2: divorce is always an easy motive. And then you see

661
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: in trials like them hammering that home of like the

662
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: husband being unfaithful or whatever. I just don't see how

663
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: this is any different. It's a factor like jumping to

664
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: the conclusion of murder and jumping to like I'm going

665
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 2: to use murder to solve my problems. Should never be

666
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: like anything that makes anybody that makes sense in anybody's brain. Ever,

667
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 2: Like I find it weird when people are like it

668
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: makes sense why he killed Maggie, but why did he

669
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 2: kill his son Paul, And like it does not make

670
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: any sense money, like it never makes sense unless you're

671
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: defending your life as like in real time, murder should

672
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: never make sense, and like this motive is complicated, but

673
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: is it that far fetch.

674
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 3: Well, he has like all of them, the he was

675
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: unfaithful to her, exact financial problems, and he had a

676
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: drug addiction, right, sort of has all of the factors,

677
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: So like just pick or you know, it's any and

678
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 3: all of.

679
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 2: Them, right, it's all of the factors. But it's just

680
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: really funny like speaking to like you, for instance, and

681
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: people from other places besides South Carolina, because here it

682
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: was such a big deal and it's hard, like, do

683
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: you remember another recent trial that's captured people's attention in

684
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: the way that Jay Simpson, which is a very long

685
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: time ago, Yeah.

686
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: Very long time. I go for Scott Peterson.

687
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: Scott Peterson, it was pretty big.

688
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's also trying to get into a trial, and

689
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 3: I think they just said bye bye.

690
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: I think later.

691
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: They did, which is fine, But yeah, I mean, there

692
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: are very few trials that capture people's attention to this extent.

693
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 2: And so the fact that everybody and I keep getting

694
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: messages of like, how are you feeling? Because I don't

695
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: want to go through this again?

696
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: Right right, everybody's like looking to you, I guide us

697
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 3: through this.

698
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 1: Help us, help us make it.

699
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: We're gonna be okay. I mean, I do feel like

700
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 2: they can do the they can get a guilty verdict. Again,

701
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: it's but it's again, it's it's it's all proving the point.

702
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: It's all proving the point that our justice system is

703
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 2: not fair, and it's definitely not fair in South Carolina.

704
00:42:52,800 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: And he gets the system that everybody else doesn't.

705
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: Talking about not fair.

706
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: That's a great segue into whatever you're comfortable talking about

707
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 3: or allowed to. You have found yourself pulled into a

708
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: legal drama yourself, and that is really tangentially related or

709
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 3: quite directly related to the murder murders and the entire case.

710
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 3: I just want to say before I even talk about this,

711
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 3: that I am so disgusted at the way that you

712
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 3: have been treated publicly by people that are supposed to

713
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 3: be upholding the law, by people that are you know,

714
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 3: should be exemplary in.

715
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: Their moral, you know behavior.

716
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 3: I just with like my jaw is on the ground

717
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 3: at some of the things that have been said to you.

718
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: So what is going on exactly?

719
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for that, and I appreciate that this

720
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: could take hours, so I will be as short as possible.

721
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 2: I could go on and on and on about all

722
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: this craziness, but yes, I have unfortunately been wrapped up

723
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 2: in legal warfare for six months now with of all people,

724
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 2: Greg Parker and his attorneys who represented Alex Murdoch's co conspirators.

725
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: So this legal warfare that involves the Second Beach case,

726
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: so the Malory Beach case, for just a recap of everybody.

727
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: And when I started covering this case, this was like

728
00:44:54,600 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: ground zero of everything. Was this lawsuit where Mark ten On,

729
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: behalf of the Beach family, sued Alex Murdoch, Buster Murdoch,

730
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: the Alex Murdoch's father, whose house they were at that night,

731
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: another restaurant that they were at that night, and a

732
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 2: gas station called Parker's gas Station. And most everybody settled

733
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: very quickly in the lawsuit except for Greg Parker, Buster

734
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: and of course Alex Murdoch. And as we know, this

735
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: lawsuit was a big pressure point for Alex Murdoch and

736
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 2: his financial crisis that he was experiencing at the time

737
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: that his and his father was dying and all these

738
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: other things were going on around the time of the murders.

739
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: But he no longer had insurance. Insurance was not covering

740
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: him on this massive lawsuit. And so this billionaire Greg

741
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: Parker owns a gas station. And I always thought it

742
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: was weird that like his gas station sold sold the

743
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 2: liquor there, sold the alcohol to Paul Murdoch and Pal

744
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 2: Murdoch's friends that night before she died. They were underage,

745
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: and it was it was pretty much point blank, like

746
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: they did this. It was bad, right, And I always

747
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: wrote it like that, like it's just weird. This guy

748
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: isn't settling, Like we all know why Alex Murdoch isn't

749
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: settling because he's got all this other crazy stuff, But

750
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: why isn't this guy settling? So Greig Parker did not

751
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: like me for a lot of reasons for a lot

752
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: of years, and he finally settled with the Beach family

753
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,959
Speaker 2: for millions and millions of dollars in twenty twenty three.

754
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: But during the course of his lawsuit, he he was

755
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: sued again by the Beach family for intentional infliction of

756
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: emotional harm. And what Mark Tinsley accuses him of doing,

757
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: which is so horrible, is basically pressuring the Beach family,

758
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 2: making the Beach family's lives more horrible, and pressuring them

759
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: to drop the lawsuit against him, and one of those

760
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: things this is so horrible, But a fake want to

761
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 2: be journalist who was hired by Greg Parker to sort

762
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: of shape the narrative in his favor, got a hold

763
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: of these horrible photos of Mallory Beach's body and use

764
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: them for a sizzle reel for a document to sell

765
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: a documentary.

766
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

767
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: Somehow in the course of this crazy lawsuit, I my

768
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: name was brought up as like, but what didmanity do?

769
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 2: And people start accusing me of having the pictures, of

770
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: selling the pictures I had nothing to it, of being

771
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: paid by Mark Tensley to push his narrative. All of

772
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: these crazy things that like did not happen and there

773
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: is no evidence.

774
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 3: And go completely contrary to any sort of way you

775
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 3: have presented yourself since you have been in the public eye.

776
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. Right, it would be like it'd

777
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: be the dumbest thing that I could pass it like

778
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: it is the I stand for victims. I stand for

779
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: people who are pushed around by the justice system, Like

780
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: I would never do that. I hate when journalists use

781
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 2: their use their positions to do things to make grieving

782
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: families worse, like and make I take that very personal,

783
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,439
Speaker 2: like like you said, it's it's everything that I've ever

784
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 2: been against that I was suddenly accused of, And I

785
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 2: was like, what, So I got a subpoena to be deposed,

786
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: and my lawyers stood up for my rights as a

787
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: journalist to not be deposed, and like also just said,

788
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: like she has noting to do with this, and then

789
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 2: Liz was deposed as well. Liz sat in this deposition

790
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 2: where they tormented her for hours and use this case

791
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: basically to badger her, torment her, get information about our

792
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: company and post it on the internet. And they've just

793
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: done all these horrible things in the last few months.

794
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 2: So now I don't even know how to like bring

795
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: this to basically I finally did a deposition. I also

796
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: have seen evidence of them collaborating with this man who

797
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: I believe is a stalker of mine. He posts about

798
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: me obsessively all the time. This is like I could

799
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: get into this for really forever. But like just all

800
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: of these horrible and crazy things that made me feel

801
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: unsafe about these people. And like you said, there should

802
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: be some meeting about being an officer of the CORE,

803
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 2: but there is not in South Carolina. Like, I do

804
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: not trust these people whatsoever. And I believe that like

805
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: I believe that they want me to feel unsafe. I

806
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: believe that they want me to be quiet because I

807
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 2: also I expose their clients. I expose Corey Fleming and

808
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: Russell Lafeete and Liz, and I made them both look

809
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 2: dumb and they are. It feels like wanting revenge on that.

810
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: So all of that is to say that they are

811
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: using the court system now in an attempt to hold

812
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: me in contempt. So I have kind of like a

813
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: mini trial going on, and I laugh so I can't cry,

814
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: and I know that they will use this for like

815
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 2: they use everything, all my words against me in a

816
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: long motion. So that's been a really fun like every

817
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: single thing that I say appears in a legal motion

818
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 2: of like shame on her for saying that. But yeah,

819
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 2: I mean I this has just been so stressful. It's

820
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: all proven my point of like just how wrong the

821
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: justice system is. This all could have been so like

822
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: if these lawyers behaved in a way that was ethical

823
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 2: and that made me feel safe, none of this would

824
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 2: have happened. But like here we are, and I could

825
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: possibly end up paying a billionaire's legal fees, which could

826
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 2: be up to five hundred thousand dollars.

827
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't I get. It's like I

828
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: don't even I don't have the words. It's it's all

829
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: so un believable.

830
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 3: It just is so even the things like that I

831
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 3: was reading and listening to Liz the episode where she

832
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 3: really broke down everything that had been going on with here.

833
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 3: I was like, I can't, like, I just it's it's

834
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 3: unfathomable that this is happening. So I just really like

835
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: and I and I've read I'm so happy that you

836
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 3: have so many people that support you. And I don't know,

837
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 3: I'm assuming you don't even know half of these people

838
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 3: on the internet that support you. And I just read

839
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 3: some comments where they were like, please let us help

840
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: you with those fees if you have, you know. I

841
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 3: just so there is something quite beautiful about that, right,

842
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 3: connection with the public. I just I'm I I'm sorry,

843
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 3: and I like, you have so much support, and.

844
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: Well, thank you and thank you for listening to me,

845
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 2: Like I am like, I don't want to bore people.

846
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: This is an exhaustive, stupid it's like it's and it's

847
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: extremely complicated. They also accuse me constantly of like doing

848
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: all of this to get views on my podcast, and

849
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, it is so hard to explain to people

850
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 2: what's going on, Like people just want to hear about murder,

851
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: like that's right, I want to hear about like back

852
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: and forth legal drama. It does not get anybody going.

853
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: They will want to fatigue you. So that you actually

854
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: you talk about.

855
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 3: What's really so because you are so outspoken about victims'

856
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: rights through all your reporting, what concerns you most right now?

857
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: For Maggie and Paul's surviving family members.

858
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: It's again, it's just a lot of trauma that they

859
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: have to deal with again, a lot of and some

860
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: of them do believe that Alex did not do it,

861
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: which that's their right to believe that, But I mean,

862
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: this is just a lot of reliving trauma. Trial is

863
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: a very very horrific, grueling experience for anybody, but especially

864
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 2: a victim. And that has been one thing that I

865
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: have noticed and come to terms with with all of

866
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: my legal stuff, is like I didn't lose a loved one.

867
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm not fighting for it. Like there's a lot people

868
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 2: people fight the legal system and have a lot more

869
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: to lose and a lot more on the line. And

870
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 2: I'm thankful that it's it's money that I have to

871
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 2: worry about. But like it is I have experienced in

872
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: a way like how exhausted. It's all exhausting, It's all stressful,

873
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 2: it's exhausting, and you have to put people through so much,

874
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: and people that just wanted like people want to move on,

875
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: wanted to move on with their lives, like most people

876
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 2: involved in this wanted to move on to the next

877
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 2: thing and not be stuck in this. Like maybe Becky

878
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: Hill probably wanted to talk about.

879
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 3: Him forever, not anymore so save Becky, everyone else was

880
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: pretty done.

881
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like we're done, and it. I just I

882
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 2: feel horrible for like Blanca the housekeeper who had testified,

883
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,760
Speaker 2: like she has to relive all of this again. There's

884
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 2: just a lot of really key witnesses that I'm sure

885
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 2: that was probably one of the scariest things that they've

886
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 2: ever done in their life, spinning up and testifying against

887
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: Alex Murdock and then to have to do it again.

888
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 2: I really feel for all those people.

889
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too. I do too.

890
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 3: Oh man, Well, I mean I wish I was saying

891
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 3: I'm next time we'll talk about something else, but maybe.

892
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: Maybe that won't be the case.

893
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll have me on whenever. I love talking to you,

894
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 2: so whenever. I feel like some of that was like, oh,

895
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: this is like a therapy session, let me get this.

896
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 3: Out, good good, good good good.

897
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean it's it's a never ending where

898
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 2: like oh, Jay ended.

899
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 3: I mean it took a lot. Then he wrote his

900
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 3: book If I did it, I mean.

901
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: Good, and he just wouldn't go away.

902
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: He just wouldn't go away until he actually died.

903
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: Right. He even commented on this case he thought he

904
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: thought Ali did it even believe he even didn't.

905
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: Even OJ thinks you're guilty, right.

906
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 2: Trouble right exactly, so that guy.

907
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: Thinks you've did it. You you you definitely did.

908
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: It, right.

909
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

910
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 2: I just loved how he chimed in. That was just

911
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 2: such a I was like, that was one of my

912
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 2: moments where I was like, oh God, like everybody's watching this, like,

913
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 2: oh God, this is oj is what is happening? But yeah,

914
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 2: I mean I always believe like gotta be positive and

915
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: see the positive, and I think that a thing that

916
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: I will walk away from is like, Yeah, that's the

917
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: discussion right now, is like what in the world is

918
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: happening in South Carolina that this has to happen again,

919
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: and what is wrong with their justices. I'm there and

920
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm glad that people are having those conversations.

921
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: I am too, Mandy.

922
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 3: It is always such a pleasure to speak with you,

923
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 3: and I continue to be in awe of the work

924
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 3: that you do, and I just I think you're a

925
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: rock star. So keep going and thank you so much

926
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 3: for talking with us today.

927
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and good luck with your case.

928
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: I'll keep you updated.

929
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: Yes, please please do