WEBVTT - Ep. 512: The Texas Hog Hunt, Live 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.080 predict anything. The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.520 by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.880 or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.960 support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.199 first light dot com. F I R S T L 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:40.720 I T E dot com. All Right, everybody, but we 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.120 got something really special for you. One, we have a 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:48.120 outdoor podcast, meaning our podcast, today's podcast was recorded outdoors. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.920 It's the only podcast you can get where someone gets 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.040 a hog in the podcast, So stay tuned for that. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.600 And then there's something even more special at the end 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.480 of this very special podcast, because we're gonna be releasing 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.480 for free a chapter of me Eater's American history, The 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.559 Long Hunters, which covers that little slice of American history 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:12.000 that occurred between seventeen sixty one and seventeen seventy five 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.920 when fellas like the famed Daniel Boone were making their 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.280 living hunting for white tailed deerskins in the First Far West. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.800 So the chapter we're going to stick in is called 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.000 gearing up. It's about the blade tools, firearms, and other 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:32.840 implements employed by the famed Long Hunters. So enjoy the 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.440 show and at the end again listen to chapter seven 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.039 of Meat Eater's American history The Long Hunters. If you 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.200 like it, and you will, then you can head over 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.440 to Audible or Apple Books or wherever you get your 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.480 books and pick it up. It's an audio original, not 0:01:48.600 --> 0:02:00.600 available in print, only available to listen to enjoy. All right, everybody, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.920 welcome to the show. It's a little different because we 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.760 have to keep it at a very low volume, which 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.040 is gonna make it hard if I get fired up. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.080 You know. The comedian Mitch Hadberg observed that he didn't 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.480 like camping because when he got in a fight with 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.920 his girlfriend, it was hard to express his anger because 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.600 he couldn't slam the door and he had to just 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:31.760 try to zip the tent real hard. It's like, fuck you, this. 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:33.639 Guy like hanging up on smartphone. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.239 Now, yeah, you can't slam it. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.280 No, I just can't throw it. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.600 In the old days, you'd be like, well okay then, mom, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.080 I'm coming home right now. You can't do that anymore now, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.760 And so if I get fired up, you won't know. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:53.040 The listener won't know, because here's the problem. We're actually 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.400 hunting right now. We've done shows ice fishing and you 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.519 can talk all you want, but this is a hunting episode. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:09.679 We're hunting hogs in Texas. You could say, yeah, it's 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:14.880 in Texas. Everything's always open, so you know, when they 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.680 say you could probably think of other examples. Chris Gill, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:25.280 when Boardin's Kitchen Confidential came out, they said, a rare 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.760 glimpse into kitchen culture. And I'm trying to think of 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:35.680 other documentaries or whatever books a rare glimpse. You can't 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.040 think of any examples. I mean almost any documentary, a 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:45.080 rare glimpse into you know, a rare peak behind the curtain. Yeah, 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.920 this is a rare peak into a Texas hog hunt 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.800 or deer hunt. Because we're in Texas, we're about the 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.960 South Texas as you can get. We're on what you 0:03:55.000 --> 0:04:00.320 just do not I'm just looking at levels here you 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:08.080 mess it is, don't pass the cod where's it way? 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:16.000 Oh yeah? Yeah? And Karn, remember that you got it. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.240 This this rare, this rare glimpse into a hog hunt 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:28.039 involves a rifle borrowed rifle that we've determined. Uh, you 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.320 can't adjust the scope. No, it's maxed out. It's maxed out. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:37.320 So you gotta you gotta, you gotta a little high, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:42.480 a little of the left on close pigs, Oh, sorry, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.640 low and right on close pick it hits high left. Uh. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:51.840 We're about of South Texas. You can get. The nearest 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.960 major town is Brownsville, which is a crossing. There's a 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:03.560 crossing into Matamorris, Mexico. We're closer to Raymondville. We're on 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:11.960 a chunk of Eeteria, which is a very old, very 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:16.080 large ranch that has been you know, Eeteria is portioned 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:17.080 into different owner. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:22.440 It says on this chair eighteen fifty eight. Yeah, we're 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.960 sitting in the Uteria chairs from eighteen fifty eight. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:36.040 And I'm I'm buddies with a gentleman that whose family 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.160 owns this part of this ranch that we're on. And 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.240 we've been down here. This is a third time I've 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.240 come down for the White Tail Rut. So it's a big, 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.159 big place. A lot of it's a big place. A 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:59.119 lot of Texas properties are managed for deer. This place. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.200 You wouldn't really say that. So there's no feed. They 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.120 don't they don't do any kind of feeding. They don't 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.440 have any deer feeders out, they don't have any kind 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:15.599 of deer blinds. It's not fenced, ah, but it gets 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.359 hunted a bit, but it's just real, you know, they 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:24.719 run cattle on it. But it's a real chill, relaxed, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.039 very cool property. And we've come down here a few 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:33.200 times right before Christmas, which is when the peak rought 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.880 down here is going on, and we've had extraordinary success 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:45.240 rattling bucks down here during this week, great success rattling 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.360 bucks the week before Christmas. This year, we mix it 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.479 up a little bit because we brought down a DSD. 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.760 Listeners will know Dave Smith decoys because Dave Smith was 0:06:54.800 --> 0:07:00.359 on the podcast. We brought down a DSD deer dy 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:07.359 So it's like a fight postured buck, and over the 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.880 course of three days we rattled in over thirty bucks. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:17.080 There's a little uh lizard eating some sort of caterpillar 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:17.880 right here on this. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.000 Oh right there. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:25.320 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:25.800 He's no, he's not always different. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:26.560 Shot up. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.800 I just wanted to meet some sort of caterpillar seasons 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:31.480 probably in I. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.960 Know it's Texas. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:37.840 Was I saying, sorry, how many bucks you ruddled? 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:39.440 Oh, rattled in a lot of bucks. But this year 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.520 we used this decoy. We actually had two bucks come 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.360 in and level the decoy, come in and attack the decoy, 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.400 and all those bucks come in virtually probably every one 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.440 of those bucks came in and bristled his hair up 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.560 and like postured, and whether or not they got nervous 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.040 and laughed or whatever, but in some way or another 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:04.360 acknowledged engaged with a decoy, which is pretty fascinating, and 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.080 got a coat pigs. And now we're recording the show, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.000 and so we came out to we're out in a 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.040 big pasture and we came out to a spot where 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.080 we're in like a corner of brush. This is real 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:23.440 brush country. We're in a brushy little corner and some 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:28.560 mesquite looking out over an open pasture. There's a bunch 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.720 of cattle out there. There's some horses somewhere around here. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.320 I can't see him right now, and a lot of hogs. 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.600 We picked this corner because a lot of hogs come 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.000 through this corner. We've noticed, and we got our DSD 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.400 buck decoy out there. Even though we're not really actively 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:50.319 buck hunting right now, the pigs are are they rapping 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.240 around there about around the corner. Oh shit, So just 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.719 to give you a flavor, Seth's gonna go ahead hit 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.520 a little rattles. Seth's gonna take a couple actual horns. 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.360 So we got a couple. When I'm holding here, our 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:09.040 two horns off a four point buck. So I'm two 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.200 horns off of Michigan eight, and we bone sawed the 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.240 eye guards brow tis off it to make it more 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.760 comfortable gripping and se It's going to do a quick 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.640 little rattle session here, just so you can get the 0:09:25.640 --> 0:10:04.440 flavor for what's going on. H. Did you bring your 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:14.480 grunt to? No, you don't have the grunt to. No, Okay, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.600 that's the rattle sash, Now, Seth give your formula. How 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:18.400 you think about it. 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.240 I just rattle for a bit like that. Every once 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.160 in a while I give a couple of grounds. But typically, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:34.440 like if they're within earshot, they're they're in like shooting 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.240 range within seconds. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.839 Yeah. Like, so as long as you just heard him rattle, Well, 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:42.679 we'll get to an area and we'll creep into an 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:48.600 area and get set up and like park creep into 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:53.400 an area and get set up, and usually I would 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.880 see half of the half of the bucks that show 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:00.280 up show up before you've completed. Oh yeah, you're first 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.199 rattle session, yep, And they run in and then they like, well, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.600 pump the brakes, maybe forty yards anywhere from ten to 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.080 fifty yards from where the noise is, Yeah, to try 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.080 to get a read out the situation. It got to 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.800 the point where like when Bucks didn't show up, we 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.640 were like, what's wrong? Yeah, it was. 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.160 It was weird when we had nothing show up. 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:24.840 So I do that. 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.160 Depending on the setup, but typically three different times I'll rattle, 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.800 I'll have a break for about a minute, and I'll 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:42.000 rattle again. And I would say, I don't know, twenty 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.000 five percent of the time, Bucks would come in on 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:49.880 the second one, and then I would take another break 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.559 and then rattle for like a third sequence. And I 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.280 don't think we ever had Box come in on the 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:56.000 third sequence. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:02.280 No, a typical sash. We probably don't sit in twelve minutes. Yeah, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.840 it's like something still might happen, but it's like I'd 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:06.959 rather just go to a new spot. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.880 Yeah, that last session yesterday, the third rattle worked, I think. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.480 Yeah, oh that was that was the crazy. Yeah, but 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.640 okay it did. You're right, but what's funny is one 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.520 also came in within seconds. Yeah, you know, that was 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.440 just pure chaos. At dusk last night we had a 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.960 rattle set. We had our best rattle session at dusk 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:34.400 last night and called in four bucks. Now these are 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.079 not big bucks. They're like nice bucks, but they're not 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.640 a huge box. We called in four bucks last night 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.840 and Seth got one with some stickers on him. So 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.120 he was a ten point turned thirteen. Yeah, like a 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.679 Michigan ten that had three kickers, a genuine thirteen pointer. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.200 There's a cold deer, yeah, super cold here. 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.960 Then this morning we went out rattled again and I 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.280 arrowed one. I errowed the seventh buck that came in 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:06.360 this morning. Yeah, I'm anywhere else. 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.440 That's like, it's insane, it's just crazy. 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.240 How many sets do we have this morning? Was it 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.760 this morning? Yeah? Was it four? I'll tell you. I'll 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:22.080 pull up my stats three or four. So here's my stats. 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.280 On day one we did nine sets. 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:28.400 Four. 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.240 On day one we did nine sets, We did nine 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:33.240 rattle sessions. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:35.520 Oh yeah, there are two bigs right. 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:40.840 And rattled in seven bucks. On day two we did fourteen. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.760 We were being turned and burned and burned we did 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:52.520 fourteen setups and rattled in sew thirty six. Yeah, we 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.240 rattled in twenty one bucks due way better. We were 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.880 cranking that day everything from four ki's four keys still 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:01.959 a little basket. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.240 Tends and and changed the strategy as far. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.880 As got it figured out. I'll talk about that in 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:14.280 one second. Then today we killed a buck on the 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:21.720 seventh setup, which was seven setups, and killed the seventh 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:28.880 buck on the seventh setup seven seven nice today today. Yeah, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.360 we tried a bunch of different ways of going about this. Uh, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.600 this a little strategy talk. If you want to try this, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.160 we would set up together, okay, so the rattle guy 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:48.520 and the bow guy next to each other. The problem 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.800 you'd have is is you know animals like you know 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.480 when people say with turkeys that when you're calling to 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:59.200 a turkey, that turkey knows what tree you're under. Yeah, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.240 and he knows when he hears it from two hundred 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.440 yards away, he knows what tree it is and what 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.080 side of that tree you're on. I read a good 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.360 line and Little Big Man where a guy was talking 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.720 about how good someone is at tracking, and he said, 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.600 when he looks at the ground, he can tell what 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:26.520 birds flew overhead, so they know where that noise is 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.920 coming from. So when you rattle and the buck comes 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.840 busting in, he knows exactly where to look. He knows 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.720 exactly where he's looking, and he might see the decoy, 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.000 but he's looking from the decoy to where the noises 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.760 from the decoy to where his noises. He sees the buck, 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.800 the decoy buck, but he also is like, well, where 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.440 is the thing that was fighting? So then we started 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:57.280 trying to spread out by a bit. What happened? I 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.840 was just a big fat black hawk right our outer cles, 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.520 right there, all right there at the tree edge. That's 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:06.600 I don't know. Can you get a shot? I don't know. 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.920 Oh you know, you mean the other side of the 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.640 thing or our. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:11.600 Side, our side? 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.120 How many yards he's walking out? 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:14.280 I'm bad at estimating. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.000 He's like at the tree line over there here. Let 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.920 me give you a range finder. Just poke out and 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.520 range him. This place is crawling with pigs right now, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:27.560 like you wouldn't believe. 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:31.440 It. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:37.280 Measure twice. Karn's gonna go get a range on him. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.840 I flipp it the other way. There you go. So 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.320 what we eventually hit on was if there's any appreciable wind, 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.240 like we would want to go here here. When we 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.160 first started doing this, we would always think, Okay, you're 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.160 gonna approach the area with the wind in your face, 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.880 of course, and then you're gonna rattle like like just 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.320 like setting up with a predator call. When you set 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:04.560 with the predtor call, you want to win in your 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:09.480 face and you're looking into the wind or crossways knowing 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.000 that that kyote is gonna come and want to get 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.840 down wind of you, but you're looking up when because 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.440 when he gets down windy, it's gonna be too late. 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.320 You're trying to catch him work in his way to 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:18.920 get down wind. 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.800 It's like between one thirty and. 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.919 Okay, that's pretty far. I mean for for our iron, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:31.919 it's pretty far. So get shot them shooting iron so 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:41.280 uh ah. But that so we eventually hit on was 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.800 when those bocks come into that what's wrong? Oh right here? 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:51.200 Oh shit, crin, How do I plug my ears? My 0:17:51.240 --> 0:18:00.239 eyd bones on easy easy rest Undernea's kate up up 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.440 chamber the round chamber of the round she did. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.280 He's definitely keyed up, but he's not going anywhere. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:20.560 Oh ship. That's the first time trends ran off. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.480 Are you sure that that might be the first time 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.760 there's ever been a big Hunter in podcast? 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.520 That might be that just might be. 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.480 You might have to Did you see what kind of 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.120 hits she got on? I couldn't tell. 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:38.600 He didn't go down. It was a oh, yeah, we 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:39.960 might have to do a little interimation. 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.400 All right, we're at the pause for a se. 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.080 Don't ask me. I got no idea what they can 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.679 and can't do. That's why this, this shot has been 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:57.480 fun because we've just been seeing so many bucks doing 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:58.439 buck stuff. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:03.440 Yeah, doing buck stuff, doing doing stuff that you rarely get. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:10.080 Just oh, second shot. I wasn't ready for that. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:13.879 Yeah, don't. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.639 Yeah, that's a second shot. Assuming that's the same pig, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.359 potentially a different pig. 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:24.720 I'd say it's dead now. 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:30.359 Yeah, I think we're probably pretty Probably should send an 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.480 email to Phil, yeah, letting them know, Hey, Phil got 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:40.600 to chop about Trucually not much longer here, we're gonna 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.920 come back, folks, I tell you chuckle that podcast feel 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.080 that it's probably not usable, Like what is al Michael's 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.480 Do you know if they can't go to commercial and 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.560 there's like a player down or something, they got to 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:54.160 just talk you know what I mean. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.639 Game, So they like start talking about stats and stuff 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.320 and whatnot. Yeah, you got any stats on hand? Well 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.800 the impressive stats. Oh, here's Steve. Steve's come back. Steve said, 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:10.600 already box old Steve. Here, Steve just picked up a 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.640 nice bullet casing here they come. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.800 Sure they have a story, So do we have a 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:19.760 dead pig or what's gonna tell? 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:24.840 Tell your hunting story, Krent nice Corinne, Yeah, well we'll 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:26.960 get to it. I'm curious about that second shot because 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.840 me and Seth we're not ready for it. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:35.600 That makes three of us. Every day I vowed to 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.919 like start getting real serious about hearing protection. And I'm like, 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:43.840 I'm in the middle of being like, okay, you know, 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:50.399 get a good that's the experience that I that the 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.600 other day. I'm giving her like a motivational speech. 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.480 Where's the pig there? 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.160 It's it's uh, we just left land for now. Yeah, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.120 we'll go get in a minute. Okay, tell your hunting story, 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.480 crin Well we got the first part. 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.800 Move your mic closer, as anyone who's observing on YouTube 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.520 could tell that I had just abandoned my seat. 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.199 If you're not watching on YouTube, you should pause this, 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:20.200 and yeah you should. 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:21.560 You should hit a computer. 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.520 Wait till you get home and watch on YouTube. Don't 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.000 say that, finish this and then rewatch there you go. 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:32.359 There It is as I was ranging two or three 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:37.879 different pigs, one just was like way too close and 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:41.160 then I just kinda couldn't. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.320 Help it and I threw a bead. 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.160 I didn't I didn't make the best shot, even though 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:47.280 it was really really close. 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:48.160 It would have died. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.080 I mean, it's I guess part of Yeah. 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.640 She's far back. We found it standing back in there. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.639 We went in there, dirt, found a little blood, and 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:57.119 we went back in there and was standing there, and 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.680 then I was trying to explain Krin where the head 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:08.359 wasn't She apparently already knew I hadn't put my hearing 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:09.320 protection in yet. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:12.720 And that second. 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.760 Gave me a nice muscle break to the to my 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:20.840 mostly impaired. 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:30.400 Earlsive I knew, I knew it was a head off 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:36.159 to the. 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:35.840 Yeah. 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:37.640 I feel like if you if you're at the point 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.359 where you're telling Krin like what she needs to be doing, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:42.200 she already knows. 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.200 She's already she's already doing it. Yeah, I think, Yeah, 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.679 I'm going to graduate her in my mind up to 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:51.639 that position and not like I'm not like I'm talking 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.040 to my son. Yeah, I learned that real quick the 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:55.560 other day. 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:58.440 And I was like, all right, when he steps out, 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:04.520 all right, you stepped out enough for her. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:09.679 This this is like a pig. 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:12.600 It's so much nicer the other one. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.439 I mean, you think I think every time we come 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:15.200 through here, there's pig. 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.440 Do you think there? They could more could come through 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.240 now after post guarantee. 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:23.919 It nice so that even though I said, I'm not 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:29.080 like a great uh judge of pigs, you know, I said, 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:32.320 it look like a little bore. It's not big Old South, 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:38.800 but it's like yesterday the one I got, I got 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:43.920 the coveted uh pregnant sow, which is when they get 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:47.600 body fat. Well you don't want one is nursing because 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:51.600 they know that. And that's a stop. That's that feels 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.639 like the of the three we've butchered, that feels like 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.119 the best one. This one here, that feels to me 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:04.199 like oh yeah, like and feeling it's this is some 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:06.719 lean country here, like I said, there's no there's no 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:10.639 feeders here or anything. It's just lean country. And uh, 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.080 the pigs here are just bones. You know, my boy 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:15.920 got a couple one time. Man, they were just hard 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:17.400 to like really get anything off. 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:22.840 But should we get the shooting iron handy? If we go? 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:23.800 If you're trying to get. 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:25.480 A second, I'm good on pigs. Do you need? Do 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:25.760 you want? 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:26.280 I'm good. 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.120 You got on pigs green? Yeah, we're good on pigs. 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:31.240 Pigs old, Okay, it's a success. 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.640 Yeah, now we can do the puck. 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:46.240 Oh yeah, where was I? Where was I talking about? Oh? 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:50.000 Our setups? So this is our findings so far on rattling, 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.159 which we've put in a fair bit of attention to 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:57.560 at this point. So let me recap. I got a 0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:59.240 little rattled. 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:02.120 Yeah, sorry, you still hear that ring? 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:05.160 No, not that kind of rattle. Well, I was explaining 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.560 that we would at a time set up together, but 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.760 they were two keyed in, so then we would try 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:16.480 to get a little distance between the rattle and get 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.719 a little distance between the rattling and the spot. And 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:23.560 our thinking was our thinking was we were kind of 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:26.840 wanting to look into the wind because you were looking 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:31.359 at areas that you hadn't already put odor to, thinking that, 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:34.800 you know, if the ones that are behind that are 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:37.399 down when aren't coming, so you'd look up, you know, 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:40.000 and we're approaching into the wind too. So we're approaching 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:43.720 into the wind. Imagine we've disturbed what's behind us. We're 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:47.000 now calling to things that we haven't walked through and 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:49.760 to things that haven't gotten our odor. And so we 0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:52.520 would set up like that. What we kept finding is 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:59.560 it's thick enough country that they're playing that wind from 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:04.560 a little way out, and they're showing up consistently downwind, 0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:07.840 making their kind of like almost like running into a 0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:12.080 down wind position. And then they stop. Often they stop 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:15.159 when they see that decoy. They pump the brakes on, 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.000 which is good because if you don't have the decoys, 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:18.800 sometimes you find they just run through it, never stop. 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:23.360 So we eventually hit on this idea where the rattler 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:30.680 sets up down wind from the rattler. The rattler sets 0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:35.040 up up wind from the decoy. So the rattler is 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:38.400 forty thirty forty would you say, thirty yards twenty. 0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.520 Yards apparently set up, Yeah, theyware from I would say 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:43.720 fifteen yards to thirty. 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:46.879 Yards, yep. The rattler is fifteen to thirty yards from 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:51.280 the decoy, and the rattler is the decoys down wind 0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:55.600 to the rattler, and then the archer wants to set 0:26:55.680 --> 0:27:02.120 up fifteen to thirty down from the decoy, which when 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.560 that buck comes in and he's and he's staring at 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.560 that When that buck comes in and he's staring at 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:11.800 that location where that rattling is or registers the decoy, 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:17.399 he's in your zone, you know, and it sticks, so 0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:19.159 you can't you know, you can't see everything. You kind 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:20.879 of got to pick your lanes. But he's likely to 0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:24.800 come in and stop ten yards fifteen yards from where 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:27.760 you're at. What's funny is you'd think, well, what happens 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.160 when the buck stops between the archer and the rattler, 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:35.120 which is exactly what we did today. I actually had 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:40.160 to take my shot before I wanted to, because if 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:42.200 he took another step or two, I would have shot 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:47.119 Seth with my bow. Yeah, it would have already be 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:50.239 a bloody arrow. I'm glad you didn't do that. Yeah, 0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:53.040 it would have gone through the deer and then into Seth, 0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:55.640 which whatever, you know. 0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:59.800 No big deal, a second pass through just would have 0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:03.439 went through the guts, all right. 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.800 Yeah, So but it worked beautifully. I think that that 0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:12.160 is the system for rattling in thick country, running, running 0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:16.639 and gunning, rattling in thick country. And you know what 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:18.399 it winds up being. It's you know what, it's so 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:27.520 similar to It's so similar to Jason phelps elk hunting strategy. 0:28:27.560 --> 0:28:32.040 The way he likes to hunt bulls is hell. If 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:35.399 he finds a bull betted or finds a midday bowl, 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:38.680 he likes to sneak into like where that thing is not, 0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.240 where that thing can't ignore it, where it can't ignore 0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:44.720 a bugle yep. Like he's not going to go three 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:47.240 hundred yards to check out a bugle. He's just not. 0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:49.160 He might bugle and return, but he's not gonna get 0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:50.880 up and go, and he's not gonna get out of 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:54.440 his bed necessarily and walk. But when when you rip 0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:58.120 a bugle fifty yards, he's gonna get up. Yeah, you're 0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:03.200 in his face. And for like running and gunning rattling, 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:08.200 all you're really trying, Like what you're doing is you're 0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:10.560 standing those bucks up and they're bounding in. I don't 0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:13.720 know what they're coming from one hundred yards. It's an 0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:16.920 interesting strategy in any situation where if you knew you 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:25.360 had deer, you knew you had a buck betted anywhere, Illinois, Michigan, whatever. Yep. 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:27.680 If you knew you had a buck betted, that you 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:31.600 might approach like that. Get in there with a buddy, 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:35.320 get in there and be like when I rattle, get 0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:41.000 ready yeah, because we're in his zone. Yeah, and he 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:42.640 might be like, what in the world's going on? 0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:45.720 You know, it'd be fun to try that in other 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:47.440 places than here, Like then. 0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:49.160 It's not gonna be as good. It's not gonna be 0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:53.680 as good as here because there's so many deer and 0:29:54.000 --> 0:29:55.960 the buck to do this seems like there's more bucks 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:58.560 than dose. Yeah, there's not. 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.200 It's probably equal, but there's just definitely seen more bucks 0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:06.120 and it's like prime time all that. 0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:08.920 But it could, it would be. It would be something 0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:11.800 that I would try in other in other situations. You know, 0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:14.360 it's something I would try in other situations. Is running, 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:19.600 gun running, gun rattling. I'm gonna trademark that turning burn 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:22.200 rattling turning burn. Yeah. 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:25.000 What's also cool being on the ground that close to him, 0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:27.080 You know, it's different than being up in a tree. 0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:28.880 Being up in a tree is cool too, but there's 0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:30.800 just something about being on eye level with them. When 0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:32.920 they come in, it's pretty it's pretty cool. 0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:36.080 You didn't see every hair that's standing up. Yeah, yeah, 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:40.000 that's That's one of the most surprising things is if 0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:43.840 you look at the Dave Smith decoy deer decoy, it's 0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:47.440 meant to look like bristled and he it's got a 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:50.720 really interesting texture to it. But when those deer come 0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:53.240 in and they see that decoy, it's just like they 0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:55.960 can picture a turkey coming in and seeing a strutter decoy. 0:30:56.360 --> 0:31:00.000 What's he gonna do? He's gonna yeah, he comes in. 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.959 He's like, right, he comes in at first like picture 0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:05.960 of Tom coming in where he's like, sure, hope no 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:08.080 one tries to kill me, Sure hope, no one tries 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:09.480 to kill me. And then all of a sudden he 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:12.720 sees a decon and he's like, oh yeah, you know, 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.440 forgets everything. Feathers pop out. Like these bucks come in, 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:19.920 they see that decoy and they they go into full strut. Yeah. 0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:23.160 Oh it's wild, and they have such a strange They 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:27.040 cock their ears back, they start tipping their head. Two 0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:31.960 of them started kicking dirt even works. Two of them 0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:36.600 works scrapes or made a scrape. They're like drooling. Yeah, 0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.400 licking their lips man a lot, and then they like 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:42.320 they look like my kids going into McDonald's. 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:46.040 They they go from like a normal a normal deer 0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:49.680 like walking in so like stop see the decoy. 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:54.600 And then it's like slow motion all the way in, 0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:59.920 all his hair standing out and they shiver it tay 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:04.600 jammed down between their legs like a G string. The 0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:08.040 second time I used that, second time I use recently. 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:11.400 Yeah, not every day. 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:13.640 No, I go months of I'll talk about a G string. 0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:16.440 And I've had two occasions in the last hour. Was 0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:20.360 it related guitar? One of them one just the joke, 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.600 the joke, not my joke, but a joke I heard. 0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:25.640 I was trying to I was messing with a guitar 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:29.640 and remembered a person a former podcast guests who will 0:32:29.680 --> 0:32:33.280 not identify, saying that the only instrument I've learned how 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:39.360 to play was ah and I was telling that, sharing that, 0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:44.040 and then use it again. Out his tail tucked in 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:52.160 like a G string, hair puffed out, shaking, head cocked in, 0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:57.160 a lot of lip licking, yeah, and coming at it 0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:00.000 from all angles. And here's another thing from the surprise, 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:04.280 Like you picture two bucks fighting that they're gonna hit 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:10.440 heads right, Well, if you have a decoy that's stationary, 0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:13.360 you see what the buck would prefer to do because 0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:18.760 the decoy can't turn to face it. So the buck 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.080 kind of gets like, are you really honestly gonna let 0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:24.400 me do this? And the buck pulls up alongside both 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:28.480 bucks that attack the decoy because it's not turning to 0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:32.560 meet them right in the ribs. Yeah, like he's trying 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:34.960 to stab it. Yeah, he's like, if you're really gonna 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:38.080 let me do this, I'm going to give you all 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:40.760 eight of my times into your rib cage. Is what 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:42.479 both those bucks did. It's like that. 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.440 It's like the buck knows where it needs to hit 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:45.520 the other buck to kill it. 0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:45.880 Yep. 0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:49.040 It's like if you just let the deer do its thing. 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.920 It's like they're like just trying to kill each other. Yeah, 0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:53.680 but no buck on his right mind and his right 0:33:53.720 --> 0:33:55.640 mind is going to actually let another buck do it. 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:58.360 So you think they always meet head to head, But 0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:02.840 he pulls up alongside, and and they pull up alongside, 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.240 and they stare and one got his head really close. 0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.799 But then they when they charge, there's no announcement like 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.680 when they snap and go for it. It's out of 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:13.080 the blue. 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:16.000 I feel like that first one kind of pulled up 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:17.800 and almost looked the decoy in the eye for that 0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:20.360 kind of turned and like eyed eye with him and 0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:21.160 then went for it. 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:23.960 I think our decoy eventually started to smell too much 0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:30.279 like seth from Carry Carry when they started to get suspicious, 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.600 and then we took Uh. A guy that uses the 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:36.680 DSD deer decoys is telling me, when you kill a buck, 0:34:36.840 --> 0:34:42.000 take the tarsal glands off that buck and rub it 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:44.920 into your decoy and then just stole the tarsal glands 0:34:45.040 --> 0:34:48.200 under the decoy. So we got some buck glands, then 0:34:48.239 --> 0:34:51.120 the dog stole them. 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:54.640 That would have been cool to see that reaction, like 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:56.759 pre rubbing it and post rubbing it. 0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:01.359 More. Yeah, there there was one buck today that would 0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:02.640 look like it was going to mix it up with 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:07.920 that decoy. And Uh, my take on his body language 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:11.520 is he was not buying that smell. Yeah, I agree. 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:14.480 He got close and put his nose out and got 0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:16.880 his nose maybe three feet from that thing, and his 0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:20.200 hair just flattened out. Yeah, and then he walked off 0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:22.279 like he lost all his. 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:26.960 Yeah, it's it's it's tough to get that thing odorless 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:29.560 just because you're it's like. 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:31.840 You really got a bear hug it to move around. 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:35.680 It's not that easy to carry around just because it's 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:40.719 like a full sized deer decoy. And I would most 0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:42.600 of the time just like throw it over my shoulder 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:50.640 because I was also carrying other stuff, rattling antlers and whatnot. 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.879 But yeah, I think it if maybe if we had 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:56.879 like some sort of spray to like spray it down 0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:59.920 real good, yep, and then rub it down with the 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:02.360 uh with the tarsal glands. 0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:04.200 Yeah, I think if you took a bottle of rubbing 0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:06.319 alcohol and gave it a little rub down and then 0:36:06.400 --> 0:36:09.760 tarsal glanded it, it'd be bad ass. Do they bottle 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:14.280 that tarsal glen scent they make? They made sense, yeah, 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:16.279 but I kind of it's just much more bad ass 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:18.640 to rub it with your own deer man. 0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:21.759 Yeah, it's a good if you're in a spot where 0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:23.759 you can get a doll or you like an earn 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:26.359 a buck state or something, you know, like get the well, 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:28.759 the dolls don't have the tarsal glands though, huh. 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:31.799 No stinky ones and those bucks. Oh we you know, 0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:33.960 we should clarify because you don't come on the show enough. 0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:39.360 Chris Gills here, Hi everybody, and Dirts here and Karn 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:44.200 of course, seth. Uh did you notice how many of 0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:49.360 those bucks stank? Yeah, like when a buck comes through 0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:53.719 and then he leaves, it's his it lingers, Yeah, it 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:56.319 lingers in the air man and that buck that I 0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:58.040 had kind of to scare because I thought I was 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:00.120 gonna hit us to smell it. The whole time he 0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:02.040 got close, I was like, Bud, you gotta take a bath. 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:05.120 Just a stinky buck. Yeah. 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:08.480 I smelled the drop tinme buck that we were after today. 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:10.239 I smelled him real good. 0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:14.960 He was sanky. A lot of different personalities though, yeah, 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:19.239 a lot of different a lot of different responses. It 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:21.840 felt we didn't have enough a huge sample size. But 0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:27.959 it felt like bigger bucks were less likely to commit suicide. Yep, 0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:31.959 you know makes sense. More likely to check stuff out. Yeah, 0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:36.319 more likely to check stuff out, seth. You remember you're 0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:40.839 familiar with Saint Anthony to find something right, Okay, check 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.160 this story out. So when we just did the live tour, 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.120 a guy told me the story that I met at 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:48.960 the live show, and then he emailed the story because 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:50.840 I said, email me that story because it's a great story. 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:53.200 We're talking about what explained Saint Anthony. I had never 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:58.000 heard of this. I honestly don't know what Saint Anthony. 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:00.520 He's the saying of lost items. 0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:01.520 See, that's what it is. 0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:05.239 I always growing up, if I lost something, my grandmother 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:09.560 would always say, you gotta say, Saint Anthony, say anthy, 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.400 police come around. Something's been lost and cannot be found. 0:38:12.520 --> 0:38:14.800 And if you say that, it's like a little prayer 0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:15.319 type thing. 0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:17.120 Oh mokw something. 0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:19.600 And if you say that, you'll you'll find whatever you're 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:19.960 looking for. 0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:22.640 Well, let me back you up on that. This guy 0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:26.840 uh long, it's kind of the convoluted story. 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:27.080 But the. 0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:31.440 Quick of it is, they were out checking trail camps 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:36.560 a couple hours from home, lose the truck keys. Oh 0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:39.560 so this guy and his body loser truck keys. And 0:38:39.600 --> 0:38:41.239 they look and look and look and look for the 0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:47.200 truck keys, trying to call someone. And you're proposing to 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:50.480 their buddies that like you, how about you make a 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:51.640 four hour drive. 0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:53.680 Oh it's a tough sell. 0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:57.440 Yeah. Anyways, they go all the way back to the 0:38:57.440 --> 0:38:59.360 where the trail camp was and the tree stand was. 0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:02.520 He says, real thick grass and vegetation back and forth. 0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:06.200 Can't find it, and he does the the Anthony prayer. 0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:10.839 The guy that didn't lose the guy accompanying the guy 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:12.680 that lost his keys, that's who's telling me the story. 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:16.640 He's accompanying his buddy. His buddy's lost his keys. He 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:21.640 does his Saint Anthony prayer. They're looking, and all of 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:25.920 a sudden, the guy's phone rings. The guy that lost 0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:30.600 his keys phone rings, so he stops to converse on 0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:34.799 the phone, and while he's conversing on the phone, realizes 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:40.200 that there's his keys. Now, who do you think it 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:47.839 was that called the man his buddy Anthony? Exactly? Man, 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:55.840 God is good? Exactly? Oh man, is that? I heard you? Exactly? 0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:59.520 And I know hold honor that buddy? Ye something about 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:03.360 oh yeah, something about that. At the end of this episode, 0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:11.200 you are going to hear chapter seven for free. You're 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:15.840 gonna hear chapter seven of me Eater's American History, The 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:16.800 Long Hunters. 0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:18.080 I'm very excited about this. 0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:18.799 Oh you should be. 0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:21.440 Oh, I'm like, from what I've heard, very excited. 0:40:21.600 --> 0:40:25.520 It's perhaps one of the things I used to tell people. 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:27.799 The thing I'm most proud of that I made My 0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:33.319 best work was my Buffalo book because I was at 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:35.560 the height of my powers as a writer, because I 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:37.239 didn't have any other thing going on in my life. 0:40:38.640 --> 0:40:40.480 That's all I was doing is just for two years, 0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:43.040 I just worked on that book. My life was really simple, 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:47.319 no kids, wasn't married. It was just different back then. 0:40:57.840 --> 0:40:59.320 A big old bull go out and grab hold of 0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:00.880 big old bold that. 0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:04.840 I actually thought that those were the utters. 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:08.080 That's just one. He's like, he's only got one utter. 0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:18.560 So uh so, oh it does got to Yeah, he's 0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:24.719 got to know. Damn, he's posting for us. Yeah, so 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:30.080 uh got's a stout looking critter in this thorn country 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:38.360 where so long hunters. Uh. It's pretty. It's really good. 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:42.680 It's really good. I believe it. It's narrated. It's audio only, 0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:44.279 so it's not that you people shold understand. It's not 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:48.200 a print book. It's an audio original narrated by myself 0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:52.600 and Clay Newcombe, exhaustively researched by doctor Randall. 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:56.640 I'm also excited that you and Clay are narrating it 0:41:56.640 --> 0:41:59.320 because when you hear like audiobooks or whatever, and somebody 0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:00.920 else is reading it. You talked about that one more 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:02.560 it's like it just kind of it can be a 0:42:02.600 --> 0:42:05.920 real good or bad thing for the story. 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:12.120 Here's what we found in working on it is that's 0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:14.839 not a close I feel we should get predator call 0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:22.479 out and bring it in here. So that's a good point. 0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:23.799 That's I wouldn't worry about that yet. 0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:26.399 Tell what was I saying? 0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:32.000 Oh uh, you know books, A book that's meant to 0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:35.239 that's written to be read, is best read. It's best 0:42:35.239 --> 0:42:38.239 that you read it. Something that you're listening to is 0:42:38.320 --> 0:42:42.360 just different. So when we made the Long Hunters, like 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:46.200 media's of American history is meant to be presented, it's 0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:48.600 meant to be read, it's meant to be it's meant 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:51.040 to be listened to. It was like built specifically to 0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:53.000 be listened to, which kind of makes it special. And 0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:56.399 we do all the narration on it. It's really good. 0:42:56.400 --> 0:42:59.200 So we're gonna put chapter seven, which is called Gearing Up. 0:42:59.280 --> 0:43:03.399 It's about the equipment used by the Long Hunters at 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:07.480 the end of this episode to further titillate you and 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:12.320 prompt you to go and wherever you buy your books 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:16.840 and pick your copy up, download your copy for listening. 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:20.240 Cats and Schizophrenia. 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:24.400 This is not a This wasn't ready for that. That 0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:25.719 was not kind of like that gunshot. 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.239 An academic study just came out, I. 0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:32.640 Felt when I saw this article, I really thought it 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:35.120 was meant for Steve's eyeballs. 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:37.759 Cat Are you ready for this? You cat man? 0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:40.080 No? Very far from a cat man? 0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:40.720 You catman? 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:41.600 Dog man? 0:43:42.200 --> 0:43:45.040 No cat man here I have, Well, my wife has 0:43:45.040 --> 0:43:46.960 a cat. You're a cat man. I'm certainly not a 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:47.319 cat man. 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:48.320 You come around. 0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:51.560 Yeah, he's a cat man. I don't touch the cat. Well, seth, 0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:55.360 you might be curious to hear this, or not curious. 0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:57.879 You might be alarmed to hear this. As a cat 0:43:57.920 --> 0:43:59.560 what happened? As a cat man, I had a cat 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:02.560 named the cat. We had a cat named Maud when 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:04.600 I was a kid, and Maud had its babies and 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:08.279 my dad's boot and ate them all. Oh, we had 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:11.080 a cat named Fig and I was like, tell the 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:15.400 story that my dad we tamed a stray cat. My 0:44:15.480 --> 0:44:17.600 dad tamed it by leaving fish heads out for it, 0:44:18.040 --> 0:44:21.080 cleaning fish and leave the heads out. And he loved 0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:23.920 this cat. I don't know wise only cat. Well, he 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:27.520 liked that cat mad too, But he brought Fig over 0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:29.640 to his buddy who is a hog farmer, and this 0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:35.080 hog farmer has castrated thousands of hogs. He bought fig 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:39.399 over so that that guy could castraight fig. And they 0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:41.920 put they cut a little hole in a gunny sack, 0:44:42.680 --> 0:44:45.640 put fig in that gunnysack and snaked his little berries 0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:49.640 out of the hole in that gunny sack. Well, the 0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:55.360 cat fought him off. They he's castraight on hundreds of hogs. 0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:58.480 Couldn't castraight that cat. That cat got out of there 0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:00.440 were just a little nick and his scrub him and 0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:04.359 never got fixed because there's no way there. My desk 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:06.360 just spend money on that. If his body couldn't do 0:45:06.440 --> 0:45:09.080 it, it wasn't so that cat just like won the battle 0:45:09.120 --> 0:45:13.680 and pro creation. And that cat would leave for sometimes 0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.120 he'd go on like a ten day hiatus. Oh yeah, 0:45:17.480 --> 0:45:20.120 and then he'd come right down the stairs come back home. 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:24.399 I had I had an old barn cat named wild Bill, 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:26.560 and he would do the same thing. He'd go on 0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:31.400 like two week walkabouts gone, he'd be gone, he'd come back. 0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:33.960 One time I caught him in a foothold by accident 0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:35.120 in the fox set. 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:36.839 Oh, I caught my own cat one time. 0:45:36.880 --> 0:45:39.319 I let him out, didn't phase him. He'd still go 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:40.719 on walkabouts with a little limp. 0:45:40.960 --> 0:45:43.719 We caught our own cat, and we caught our own 0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:46.920 cat trapping. Was that in a possum set on a 0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:49.360 foot trap? Possum set? Caught our own cat in a 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:52.480 possum set. Let him out and he just followed us around. 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:56.279 He's like, what you guys are gonna show up? Let 0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:58.800 him out there? He just tag along with the oction. 0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:07.920 Uh oh, anyways, listen to this thing. Cat ownership and 0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:17.279 schizophrennier related disorders in psychotic like experiences correlate, correlate to 0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:21.840 cat ownership. Why it doesn't surprise me? Why you ask? 0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:25.800 Because of something that you may have learned about listening 0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:29.040 to this very podcast, the Meat Eater podcast. We did 0:46:29.040 --> 0:46:34.520 an episode on cat scratch fever. Yeah, because we had 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:37.439 a guy on. Danny Bolton came on. Was that shit 0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:38.000 called again? 0:46:40.640 --> 0:46:43.839 That's why pregnant ladies shouldn't clean litter boxes? Right when 0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:45.480 they say that if you're pregnant, don't you. 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:48.759 Have a cat cox ol Danny Bolton got toxoplasmosis from 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:51.520 eating raw I can't remember if it was goat or lamb. 0:46:51.640 --> 0:46:55.080 It was goat. Goat, raw goat. And so there's a 0:46:55.080 --> 0:46:58.279 ton of feral cats in Hawaii, so that cat shit 0:46:58.480 --> 0:47:03.279 had somehow gotten on whatever and he ate it. And 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:12.960 toxoplasmosis has been linked to jackals. No, what is it jackals? Oh? 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.080 Or is it what's that other wild ass looking dog? 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:22.200 In Africa hyena hyenas Hyenas that have toxoplasmosis are more 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:27.280 likely to be killed by lions. There's risky yet, people 0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:32.600 that you're more likely to die in an automobile accident. 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:38.680 If you've had toxoplasmosis. It removes your fear, but it 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:44.600 also apparently removes your ability to not can impact your 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:52.480 psychological state, and toxoplasmosis can link to schizophrenia related outcomes. 0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:55.960 So when you hear it, when New Jersey cat ladies 0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:57.600 come to mess with you, oh. 0:47:57.520 --> 0:47:58.719 There's a reason why they're by. 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.279 So this is after you're ready through the conclusions. This 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:08.120 is after they recover from it. Our findings support and 0:48:08.200 --> 0:48:14.200 association between cat exposure and an increased risk of broadly 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:18.720 defined schizophrenia related disorders. However, the findings related to pl 0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:23.000 e as an outcome or mixed. There is need for 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:25.600 more high qualities. Just never mind all that. I like 0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:28.520 to stick with the narrative. I don't want to read 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:32.080 all the disclaimers because I want to paint a damning 0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:35.400 portrait of cat ownership. It's like mainstream media. But in 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:38.560 all fairness, they say there is a need for more 0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:41.520 high quality studies in this field because there's some uncertainty. 0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:43.480 But still, do you. 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:46.719 Do you know how cats get like because not every 0:48:46.760 --> 0:48:51.400 cat has toxic plasmosis or you don't get so like, 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:51.920 what is it? 0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:56.640 Outdoor cats are more I would imagine that cats that 0:48:56.760 --> 0:48:58.960 have more of a chance to interact with cats. 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:00.240 Yeah. 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:04.120 Yeah, if you nabbed a cat out of a you know, 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:07.000 right out of the womb and never let it see 0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:09.319 another cat, it's probably had a little likelihood of get 0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:13.759 in toxle plasmos. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the 0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:17.640 book You want to see another herd change? Yeah, I'm 0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:19.680 a big fan of the book Life and Death at 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:22.160 the Mouth of the Muscle Shell. Oh love that book. 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:25.000 And in an area that now sits underneath the water 0:49:25.160 --> 0:49:28.719 because of an impoundment, but it was a journal of 0:49:28.800 --> 0:49:32.000 a guy who spent time at the mouth of the 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:34.600 where the muscleshell flows into the Missouri but like I said, 0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:37.760 now it's flooded lays at the bottom of Fort Peck Reservoir. 0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:41.640 And I had talked on the podcast before about the 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:44.480 amount of just bloodshed in that book. Well, a guy 0:49:44.520 --> 0:49:47.120 read it, and he made a guy an audience member, 0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:51.000 read it and built a spreadsheet where he could track 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:57.280 all the killings. Mm hm you want to hear some totals. Yeah, 0:49:57.360 --> 0:49:59.200 when you read Life and Death at the Mouse of 0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:03.759 the Muscle Shell, you will read about one thousand, four 0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:09.040 hundred and seventy four dead wolves s wolf because in 0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:11.640 that book, they're always going out and lace and buffalo 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:15.440 carcasses with strychnine yep, wolfing, and they'll be like, we 0:50:15.520 --> 0:50:18.640 went to Bob's bait and had twenty four one day. 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:20.640 I can't remember what tribe it was. One day, one 0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:22.759 of the planes tribes comes into the fort and they 0:50:22.800 --> 0:50:26.040 are mighty pissed because their dogs all got killed. M 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:31.000 oh yeah yeah, and they're like, stop putting that poison out, 0:50:31.440 --> 0:50:36.320 killed all their dogs. Four hundred and seventy four wolves, 0:50:37.120 --> 0:50:40.840 four hundred and sixty eight analope one hundred and twenty 0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:49.440 eight buffalo one hundred and twenty one Indians thirty four whites, 0:50:50.640 --> 0:50:53.839 among many other things. That are the deaths of which 0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:55.640 are described in Life and Death of the Mouth of 0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:57.840 the Muscleshell. So that's the number of deaths that occur 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:04.560 in his time in his journal. Wow, they did. Yeah, 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:07.640 and they'd be like we got onto three and everybody 0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:12.239 shot a bunch and couldn't find anything. Yeah, they killed 0:51:12.239 --> 0:51:13.640 a lot of ground. Six got to. 0:51:14.320 --> 0:51:17.400 What uh what years does that take place during that journal? 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:22.600 Uh, he's there in the late in the early eighteen seventies. 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:27.120 It's something on the Muscleshell is hunting this fall up there, 0:51:27.640 --> 0:51:30.480 and it's that kind of like more north of Great Falls. 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:36.440 It's like kind of you know, sage brushy gumbo type landscape, 0:51:36.840 --> 0:51:39.120 big old griz print in the bottom of. 0:51:39.080 --> 0:51:44.040 This grizz track. Yeah, hunter, Yeah, show you the picture. 0:51:44.200 --> 0:51:48.200 It's kind of freaky, really, Yeah, to be there. He 0:51:48.320 --> 0:51:51.040 notices too that some you can tell some stuff about 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:58.879 migrations back then in uh so a real spike and antelope. 0:51:59.520 --> 0:52:03.520 There's an in November eighteen seventy one, so one hundred 0:52:03.520 --> 0:52:07.799 and three years before I was born. They killed two 0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:11.360 hundred and twenty three antelope out of that Fort November. Wow, 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:13.360 I remember that part of the book, and it was 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:15.440 a big deal. Everybody's going up and killing all the antelope. 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:19.759 Thousands of antelope hanging out by the fort. Thank you 0:52:19.840 --> 0:52:31.879 Craig for sending that in. Yeah, that's cool. Now here's 0:52:31.880 --> 0:52:34.120 another little stats thing, a lot of stats today. We 0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:37.800 had our buck Ratland stats. Those stats. This kind of 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:40.440 blew my mind. So there's a deal. In Wisconsin they 0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:45.200 have a DNR website the tracks dogs killed by wolves. Okay, 0:52:47.480 --> 0:52:51.719 this is this is pretty crazy. So it starts. It 0:52:51.800 --> 0:52:53.520 must be when they start being able to have the 0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:59.359 running season starting in July eight. So, for instance, July eight, 0:52:59.440 --> 0:53:05.399 twenty three, Burnett County, one hunting dog killed seven year 0:53:05.400 --> 0:53:09.960 old female blue tick trailing hound. Okay, that's July eight. 0:53:11.560 --> 0:53:15.919 July twenty Clark County, one hunting dog killed and one 0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:23.000 hunting dog injured. Walker trailing hounds. That was July twenty. 0:53:23.480 --> 0:53:28.120 July twenty one, Lincoln County, one hunting dog killed six 0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:33.240 year old female redbone trailing hound. The next day, July 0:53:33.320 --> 0:53:37.960 twenty two, Bayfield County, two hunting dogs killed a four 0:53:38.080 --> 0:53:41.319 year old male walker trailing hound and an eight year 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:48.680 old female red bone trailing hound. Seven days later, Burnett County. 0:53:49.400 --> 0:53:52.560 One hunting dog killed five year old male blue tick 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:57.719 trailing hound. Four days later, August third, one hunting dog 0:53:57.800 --> 0:54:04.520 killed three year old plot trailing hound. Why are they 0:54:04.560 --> 0:54:07.840 getting killed in the summer because it's wolves killing dogs 0:54:07.880 --> 0:54:08.560 running bears. 0:54:09.400 --> 0:54:11.160 Oh, that's the bare season. 0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:13.560 Now. I don't know if this is true, but someone's 0:54:13.600 --> 0:54:18.920 pointing out cutting the hazard of cutting your hounds loose 0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:27.239 near bait piles that wolves hitting are hinting and frequenting 0:54:27.280 --> 0:54:29.680 those bait piles. And you're cutting your hounds loose near 0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:32.799 bait piles, and it meant that thing starts cutting out, 0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:39.520 baying or trailing. Yeah, those wolves are pounding it so up. 0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:44.760 So this thing, I'm looking at tracks up till this thing. 0:54:44.200 --> 0:54:52.400 I'm looking at tracks up till December. Okay. Now the 0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:56.799 running tally so in Wisconsin in these counties. In Wisconsin, 0:54:58.440 --> 0:55:04.560 twenty five bear killed and seven bare hounds injured between 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:08.640 July and October twenty twenty three in northern Wisconsin. Wow, jeez, 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:11.799 and that's something. Yeah, that's that's yeah. That's a number, man, 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:15.200 that's a big number. That's just surprising every couple of 0:55:15.280 --> 0:55:19.120 days all and it peaks like in that September October 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:23.839 and then trails off obviously in December, pounding on them 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:29.120 trailing dogs. Dang, I don't even know what I think 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:36.840 about that. Yeah, I don't know. Trying to think of 0:55:36.880 --> 0:55:40.320 what I think about that. I can see people saying, 0:55:41.520 --> 0:55:43.319 if you like your dog's lot, I wouldn't turn them 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:47.600 out on numbars. And I could see someone saying a 0:55:47.600 --> 0:55:53.560 lot of wolves. Yeah, I don't even know if I 0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:55.479 want to get back into this thing about the bird 0:55:55.600 --> 0:55:56.560 name it now? 0:55:57.560 --> 0:55:59.239 Oh god, I can see a quick tidbit the well, 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.759 I'm curious about it now that you mentioned it. What 0:56:01.800 --> 0:56:03.480 do you mean now that you mentioned you did this 0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:04.319 bird naming thing? 0:56:04.320 --> 0:56:05.560 And did you listen to the show? 0:56:05.960 --> 0:56:06.560 Not this one? 0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:08.040 This one? 0:56:08.040 --> 0:56:09.040 Which episode is it? 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:11.279 Recently? 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:18.200 You and cal and and I was on your side. 0:56:18.400 --> 0:56:24.120 The Ornithological Society in the US has moved to rename 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:29.120 seventy bird species. Now they will periodically rename a bird. 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:32.080 For instance, as I pointed out, everyone knows there's a 0:56:32.120 --> 0:56:37.080 blue grouse, but the Ornithological Society determined that blue grouse 0:56:37.160 --> 0:56:40.719 was capturing actually two distinct species of grouse. So there 0:56:40.719 --> 0:56:45.440 became out of blue became dusky and sooty. Yeah, makes sense. 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:54.719 Everyone knows that the old squaw duck, that's a derogatory term, 0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:59.960 and many people find that term offensive. So the Ornithological 0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:05.040 Society came in and surgically took that duck and renamed 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:07.799 the long tail duck. Now they can't tell you what 0:57:07.800 --> 0:57:09.640 the hell to call the dog, but it's just their 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:12.160 take on it. It's not you know, they're not like 0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:16.040 the God of birds. But the Ornithological Society moved to 0:57:16.200 --> 0:57:19.840 form try to formally rename the old squaw to the 0:57:19.880 --> 0:57:23.440 long tail, therefore moving it away. Just like I don't know, 0:57:23.600 --> 0:57:28.120 seven or eight squaw peaks, seven or eight, I don't know. 0:57:28.280 --> 0:57:32.040 Is that probably more squaw creeks right got new names? 0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:36.240 And I used to live in Missoula, Montana. One of 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:40.760 the primary peaks you'd see looking mostly west would be 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:43.520 Squaw Peak, and I remember, maybe as in the late 0:57:43.600 --> 0:57:47.720 nineties early two thousands, it became Sacagawea Peak. There's a 0:57:47.760 --> 0:57:52.480 Squaw Creek near where I live now that became storm Castle, 0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:55.160 which seems like something from the Simpsons. 0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:55.920 Storm Castle. 0:57:55.920 --> 0:57:58.840 I remember he had storm King was his snowplow. 0:57:58.440 --> 0:58:04.920 Oh those plow king, Like he was mister plow, and 0:58:04.920 --> 0:58:07.439 then Barney got into it and he was the plow. 0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:09.360 He was the competitor at home. 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:11.640 Yeah, like storm Castle. It seems like if you if 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:13.520 you've got one of those really bad realtors, you know 0:58:13.560 --> 0:58:16.120 those realtors it does when they do a subdivision and 0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:19.280 then name it for what it replaced. So if there 0:58:19.360 --> 0:58:21.800 used to be like a bunch of elk meadows, you'd 0:58:21.880 --> 0:58:24.000 mow that ship down, pave it over, build a bunch 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:27.040 of houses, and be like, I'm gonna call this subdivision 0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:37.280 olk Meadows. I'm gonna call this subdivision cattle Country. So yeah, 0:58:37.720 --> 0:58:41.200 storm Castle, which seems like a like a make believe 0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:45.480 white castle, like little cheeseburger, like a place that has 0:58:45.560 --> 0:58:48.280 a name like we used to hunt an area called 0:58:48.360 --> 0:58:51.360 Froze to Death. I'm like, that's a legit name. You 0:58:51.400 --> 0:58:57.400 can tell that some that area is Frozen Death, Hanging 0:58:57.560 --> 0:59:03.240 Woman Creek. Guess, let me guess storm Castle. 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:05.960 I mean there's no castles your storming. 0:59:06.040 --> 0:59:07.760 I got friends that just can't I got friends that 0:59:07.800 --> 0:59:09.600 can't stomach it, and they just and they can't call 0:59:09.640 --> 0:59:09.880 it that. 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:17.760 Yeah, uh, where was I. 0:59:15.760 --> 0:59:17.280 I felt that this? 0:59:17.560 --> 0:59:17.720 Oh? 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:21.400 So they now have done the big play and they're like, 0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:26.560 no more surgical renaming of things. We're gonna just rename 0:59:27.640 --> 0:59:33.480 seventy birds. Any bird named after like any bird named 0:59:33.480 --> 0:59:38.680 after a white European, regardless of what that person stood 0:59:38.760 --> 0:59:43.680 for or did, gets a new name. And I felt, 0:59:43.960 --> 0:59:48.400 and still feel that one it's a publicity grab. Two 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:53.440 it's a lot. It's not surgical. It's just it's blunt. 0:59:54.600 --> 0:59:57.880 It's like it just it just reeks to me of 0:59:58.840 --> 1:00:02.560 it reeks to me of a pr someone pointed out, 1:00:02.760 --> 1:00:07.200 and ornithologists pointed out that where this movement is getting 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:15.040 some resistance is the international ornithology community, who feels that 1:00:15.120 --> 1:00:19.760 this is a distinctly American idea. 1:00:21.600 --> 1:00:24.200 Yeah, do you have an example of a bird? 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:36.080 No, just go listen to the episode, Chris. 1:00:36.480 --> 1:00:38.760 I will, and the listeners should too if they haven't 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:41.280 heard it already. So I like that pitch. 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:44.960 I'm sure there's birds out there named after. To give 1:00:44.960 --> 1:00:49.040 you an example, the Stellar's J will no longer be according 1:00:49.040 --> 1:00:51.040 to these guys, the Stellar's J will cease to be 1:00:51.080 --> 1:00:53.560 the Stellar's J. They'll probably like the iridescent purple J. 1:00:54.240 --> 1:00:56.320 But when which is great, they should have named it that. 1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:58.040 I wish they were named that from the start. Yeah, 1:00:58.080 --> 1:00:59.320 but at this point it's there. 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:02.640 They probably named it Stellar's Jake because some dude named 1:01:02.800 --> 1:01:04.440 Stellar still last name. 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:06.600 Because these dudes used to run around name and everything 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:10.360 after themselves. Stellar did a j he did a sea lion, 1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:14.240 he did an eagle. He doesn't named anything after himself. 1:01:14.440 --> 1:01:17.120 Was Was he a bad dude? I don't know. It's 1:01:17.160 --> 1:01:19.680 just fallen out of favor now, like no one names 1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:22.240 a new bird their own name, But it was the 1:01:22.320 --> 1:01:27.240 practice in the eighteen hundreds that was a common practice 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:30.680 that you would name that. If you scientifically described a species, 1:01:30.680 --> 1:01:33.200 you would name it. Now the rationale I said, I 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:34.720 wasn't going to revisit this whole thing, and here I am. 1:01:35.080 --> 1:01:41.920 The rationale is they feel that new birders, new birders 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:46.960 who aren't of who are not of European descent, who 1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:53.640 aren't a male of western European descent, that new aspiring 1:01:53.840 --> 1:01:59.640 birders would be turned off to birding when they saw 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:06.040 this crazy, beautiful purple bird feeding on white mark pine cones, 1:02:06.240 --> 1:02:08.320 white marked pine nuts in the rocky mountains, and they 1:02:08.360 --> 1:02:11.000 might be like, good gracious, what a gorgeous bird. I'm 1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:13.920 so happy to learn about that bird. And they look 1:02:13.960 --> 1:02:17.760 and be like Stellar's jail jay, I'm getting out of 1:02:17.800 --> 1:02:22.000 this birding. I think the I'm done burden. I think 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:23.840 the people that and I don't buy that are. 1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:30.560 Behind this and using all this energy to go through 1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:34.240 and change the names of seventy some birds just because 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:39.360 they're named after dudes or people. If they took that 1:02:39.600 --> 1:02:44.240 energy and put that into preserving habitat for these birds 1:02:44.240 --> 1:02:47.720 to live in, we would all be living in a 1:02:47.760 --> 1:02:48.280 better world. 1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:53.920 That's my two cents on it. I yeah, I just 1:02:54.360 --> 1:02:57.520 I was with them, and now I just think it's yeah, 1:02:57.560 --> 1:02:59.840 I'm not with them. I do no, no, no, I 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:03.440 understood the surgical, occasional renaming. I just think that, like 1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:05.680 the seventy thing, I just felt like felt like a publicity. 1:03:05.720 --> 1:03:08.680 So yeah, if it's named after something that's like offensive 1:03:08.680 --> 1:03:10.240 to someone, obviously. 1:03:10.320 --> 1:03:12.840 I think that. I think that's that that was the 1:03:12.880 --> 1:03:17.360 premise that there are certain people who might or do find. 1:03:17.520 --> 1:03:23.040 Offended just by the fact of offended by the ethnicity 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:24.240 of someone that named a bird. 1:03:24.400 --> 1:03:27.600 That's that's very possible because I don't know for myself 1:03:27.640 --> 1:03:30.600 the full you know, seventy that have been that had 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:31.160 been listed. 1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:34.400 That's what they're saying. They're saying that not that you're 1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:38.240 offended by a specific thing that you'd look and be like, 1:03:38.960 --> 1:03:46.200 it's offensive to me that that individual's distant relatives hailed 1:03:46.240 --> 1:03:47.200 from Western Europe. 1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:52.680 If that's that, that's kind of the definition of reverse 1:03:52.800 --> 1:03:54.240 racism in my opinion. 1:03:54.400 --> 1:04:00.320 Yeah, you wanna know more something about birds? Sure? Now, 1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:04.640 every boy dreams of being uh making his uh not 1:04:04.720 --> 1:04:08.920 every boy, mini boys dream of one day growing up 1:04:09.120 --> 1:04:15.040 and being like a trapper commercial you know, hunter commercial 1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:18.760 fishermen like you make your living out hunt. Yep. Well, 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:21.680 these fellas in Montana got in that business all the 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:28.880 wrong way. Uh. They got into the golden and bald eagle. 1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:31.960 Oh I right about this business? 1:04:32.080 --> 1:04:36.440 Oh yeah, right, bro, these dudes did some It was 1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:37.720 an orchestrated thing. 1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:39.320 Yeah, they were big time. 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:41.680 Over a number of years. 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:47.680 Right. Yeah, So they were selling on the black market 1:04:49.040 --> 1:04:52.760 at pretty good prices, like surprisingly good prices. Speaking of birds, 1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:55.960 Uh to you guys, I don't need I don't want 1:04:55.960 --> 1:04:57.320 to give their name. I mean you can find their 1:04:57.360 --> 1:04:59.440 name they're in Montana, but you know, I don't want 1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:05.480 to get their name. Uh. Three thousand, six hundred is 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:10.000 the number that they're indicted on killing for the mark 1:05:10.000 --> 1:05:17.080 commercial market three thousand, six hundred golden and bald eagles. 1:05:19.920 --> 1:05:23.160 Now social media. I remember one time we were in Missouri, No, 1:05:23.200 --> 1:05:24.760 we were in Kentucky and I met a game warden 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:26.240 in the game. We were talking about being out in 1:05:26.280 --> 1:05:27.880 the field, and I remember he was one of the 1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:34.520 first people that ever expressed to me any unease about suppressors. 1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:39.000 And he was talking about man that, uh you know, 1:05:39.040 --> 1:05:40.520 I was actually talking to new handful of game wardens. 1:05:40.520 --> 1:05:42.040 I can't remember which one said what, but one of 1:05:42.040 --> 1:05:45.240 these game wardens was saying, I really rely on that 1:05:45.840 --> 1:05:48.960 crack of a rifle. He said, I'll be out in 1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:54.080 my tree stand and off in the distance, and he'd 1:05:54.120 --> 1:05:57.560 be like something about that ain't right, and he said 1:05:57.560 --> 1:05:59.920 I'll be down out of my tree heading over there 1:06:01.120 --> 1:06:04.040 and catching poachers. And so he's like with suppressors, I 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:07.760 worry about losing that tool. And a game ward and said, 1:06:07.840 --> 1:06:10.240 I don't need to go into the field anymore. I 1:06:10.280 --> 1:06:11.080 have Facebook. 1:06:13.360 --> 1:06:16.160 So he gains more time in his tree stand though, yeah, 1:06:16.480 --> 1:06:17.600 he can Facebook in his trees. 1:06:17.760 --> 1:06:20.160 So this guy had made This guy had tex so 1:06:20.280 --> 1:06:27.800 this is not social media, but he had text messages people. Uh, 1:06:27.840 --> 1:06:30.760 he had text message to a guy, you know, like basically, 1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:33.240 what are you doing? I'm out here committing felonies? 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:36.000 Oh yeah, yeah, they're texted them but they knew it man. 1:06:36.240 --> 1:06:38.760 And another message she said he was out on a 1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:44.640 killing spree. They illegally sold the on the black market 1:06:46.920 --> 1:06:51.120 the United States and elsewhere. They ran their scheme from 1:06:51.240 --> 1:06:55.760 January twenty fifteenth through March twenty twenty one. They sold 1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:57.840 wings and tails. 1:06:58.400 --> 1:07:00.600 Does it say how they got busted? Was it like 1:07:00.600 --> 1:07:01.720 a sting? M? 1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:03.480 I can't remember now? 1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:05.760 What are people doing with the wings and tails? 1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:10.400 Just three hundred and fifty bucks a pop? They were 1:07:10.400 --> 1:07:14.240 making up to three hundred and fifty dollars. Oh my god, 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:16.680 that's per bird. 1:07:16.880 --> 1:07:21.440 That sounds low, a little low, no knowing a like 1:07:21.480 --> 1:07:24.960 committing a felony and you're selling it for three point 1:07:24.920 --> 1:07:26.800 fifty with inflate. 1:07:26.880 --> 1:07:30.160 Yeah, but you could probably, Yeah, they're probably. I mean 1:07:30.200 --> 1:07:31.920 I don't I'd have to spend more time on it. 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:33.560 But I mean if you got on the if you 1:07:33.600 --> 1:07:39.440 got on the right deer carcass or two, if if 1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:43.080 you sit down and shoot a thousand bucks or the eagles, Yeah, 1:07:43.920 --> 1:07:47.360 and all you're doing is like for processing. You're taking 1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:53.040 the tail, the wings off. It's dude, Uh, that strikes 1:07:53.080 --> 1:07:54.600 me as real easy money. 1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:56.680 Well, yeah, he could probably go set a bunch of 1:07:56.760 --> 1:07:59.080 legholds around the carcass and have a thousand bucks where 1:07:59.200 --> 1:08:02.120 the eagles sitting there egles to check it, you know. 1:08:02.680 --> 1:08:04.800 I mean, and I don't want to say I don't 1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:06.400 when people taking the wrong way. But if that guy 1:08:06.440 --> 1:08:10.120 set up shop Southeast Alaska, Oh, he'd buy a private 1:08:10.120 --> 1:08:14.760 plane yep, on. 1:08:14.760 --> 1:08:19.000 A dumpster in southeast Alaska. He didn't even have to. 1:08:22.680 --> 1:08:28.800 So from April thirty, twenty twenty through March thirteenth, twenty one, 1:08:29.120 --> 1:08:36.680 that's a long time, okay, they sold or offered to 1:08:36.760 --> 1:08:41.960 sell the parts of whole birds, the parts or whole 1:08:42.000 --> 1:08:48.720 birds from two bald eagles and eleven golden eagles. One 1:08:48.760 --> 1:08:52.760 of these guys would travel from the state of Washington 1:08:54.080 --> 1:09:00.599 out to an Indian reservation in Montana to shoot in 1:09:00.640 --> 1:09:02.080 and around a reservation area. 1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:05.599 For whatever reason, I think one of the guys lived 1:09:05.600 --> 1:09:06.320 on the reservation. 1:09:06.600 --> 1:09:13.440 He did. In one instance, on March thirteenth, twenty twenty one, 1:09:14.120 --> 1:09:18.439 the two men quote returned to a previously killed deer 1:09:18.640 --> 1:09:21.040 lure in eagles. All right, So they'd killed deer lure 1:09:21.040 --> 1:09:25.439 in eagles facing up to eighteen years behind bars, one 1:09:25.439 --> 1:09:27.200 of them eighteen years and one of them facing up 1:09:27.240 --> 1:09:32.920 to fifteen years behind bars. Good surprise, that's it. Yeah, 1:09:32.920 --> 1:09:33.960 but you know what I meant. It would be a 1:09:34.000 --> 1:09:36.360 lot worse if they hadn't been delisted. 1:09:35.880 --> 1:09:39.040 Because oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh. 1:09:38.960 --> 1:09:41.439 Do you know what I'm saying? If they had done 1:09:41.479 --> 1:09:44.640 it in the seventies, if they had done in the seventies, 1:09:44.640 --> 1:09:47.960 it'd be So it's not a federal offense. 1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:50.640 It's probably multiple felonies. Right, It's probably felony to kill it, 1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:53.719 and then felony to sell it, and then there's probably 1:09:53.720 --> 1:09:56.320 you know, if you're going international, there's probably thousands. 1:09:56.920 --> 1:09:59.639 That's a good question. Are they in federal or not federal? 1:10:00.000 --> 1:10:03.919 How many felonies? Seems like there's a lot of felonies, 1:10:03.960 --> 1:10:09.320 A lot of felonies. When I think of a felony, 1:10:09.360 --> 1:10:11.040 I think of a lot more time than that. 1:10:12.080 --> 1:10:20.240 Yeah, where are they indicted? O? Man depends on a felony. 1:10:20.880 --> 1:10:23.000 A couple of them deer coming in felt like they're 1:10:23.000 --> 1:10:23.880 coming into sting. 1:10:24.280 --> 1:10:30.040 Seemed like yeah, like coming on and be like no 1:10:30.080 --> 1:10:32.880 it's federal. So they're in a federal It's it's a 1:10:32.920 --> 1:10:35.920 federal deal. You know why it's federal because it'd be 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:40.479 Lazy Act, right, because it'd be federal anyways, because they're 1:10:40.479 --> 1:10:44.479 crossing the state lines to commit a crime automatical nation. Well, 1:10:45.479 --> 1:10:48.360 because of it, seems like you should be federal. Yeah, 1:10:48.400 --> 1:10:50.320 well it would be picked up as federal because when 1:10:50.320 --> 1:10:52.759 you commit a state wildlife crime, when you cross state 1:10:52.800 --> 1:10:57.599 lines to break a state's wildlife law, it becomes federal. 1:10:57.920 --> 1:11:00.120 Like if you kidnap someone and drive them across if 1:11:00.120 --> 1:11:04.800 you were to kidnap someone in Texas and drive into Oklahoma, 1:11:05.360 --> 1:11:09.320 you're now that's a federal charge. It ceases to be 1:11:09.360 --> 1:11:11.920 state and goes federal. So because of the Lacey Act, 1:11:13.479 --> 1:11:17.479 they're moving wildlife parts across state lines and it became 1:11:18.479 --> 1:11:25.200 a federal US District court. One of them was a 1:11:25.200 --> 1:11:28.920 shooter and one of them was a shipper. One of 1:11:28.960 --> 1:11:30.559 them was from the Yeah, one of them lived on 1:11:30.560 --> 1:11:35.519 the Flathead Indian Reservation. Hmm. 1:11:36.960 --> 1:11:39.240 I wonder if they thought they'd get around it somehow 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:42.080 by being on the reservation. 1:11:43.400 --> 1:11:45.880 I had to read more. If he's a tribal member, 1:11:45.920 --> 1:11:48.599 they might have thought they were covered by something and don't. 1:11:48.640 --> 1:11:52.080 I don't really know why they're not. Yeah, we'll do 1:11:52.120 --> 1:11:54.640 a better job reporting on this next time we're out, 1:11:54.920 --> 1:11:56.120 next time we're out hog hunting. 1:11:56.560 --> 1:12:00.639 Yeah, I haven't seen any other things come in your ears? 1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:06.080 Everyone there like the way. Yeah, and then they're all 1:12:06.200 --> 1:12:10.440 they're all out left over there a couple hundred yards. 1:12:11.720 --> 1:12:16.719 Recent news story about the schizophrenia, cat ownership and skirts 1:12:16.720 --> 1:12:22.960 of schizophrenia we recently covered a we found out. I've 1:12:22.960 --> 1:12:25.919 been real interested in people dropping stuff into toilet vaults 1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:28.320 and then getting going in there and getting stuck in there, 1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:33.200 like National Forest Spots, fishing access site, magnet. 1:12:33.479 --> 1:12:34.839 Oh, that's where the most have happened. 1:12:35.200 --> 1:12:37.160 So I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say to you, Chris. 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:39.720 I'm gonna say, did you listen to the episode where 1:12:39.800 --> 1:12:41.880 we had the guys on who rescued someone from a 1:12:41.920 --> 1:12:44.200 vault toilet? And you're gonna say, well, no, not that one. 1:12:44.479 --> 1:12:49.840 I had not listened to. I don't do a lot 1:12:49.880 --> 1:12:54.840 of podcasting, So I got a fresh baby that might 1:12:54.880 --> 1:12:56.320 have preceded her though no. 1:12:56.560 --> 1:13:02.919 It did so again, uh uh, there's a there's a 1:13:03.000 --> 1:13:07.120 high pro a case of international significance where someone got 1:13:07.120 --> 1:13:10.120 stuck in a vault toilet and got rescued. Then later 1:13:11.240 --> 1:13:13.559 a woman got stuck in a vault toilet trying to 1:13:13.560 --> 1:13:17.639 fetch her watch out of there, and they couldn't figure 1:13:17.640 --> 1:13:19.080 out how to get her out because they were trying 1:13:19.080 --> 1:13:21.720 to take her up through the toilet seat. Oh but 1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:24.760 one of the responding officers had listened to the podcast, 1:13:25.960 --> 1:13:29.400 so he knew. He's like, hey, I listened to a 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:32.439 podcast about this. You can actually remove the pedestal and 1:13:32.520 --> 1:13:35.639 fish the person right out of the hole beneath the pedestal. Oh, yeah, 1:13:35.800 --> 1:13:39.200 saved the day. We've saved. I don't know how many liyes? 1:13:39.240 --> 1:13:47.360 Can I keep expecting presidential commendation? Dude, Metal of Freedom. 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:51.559 Someday I'm gonna be down there at the State of 1:13:51.560 --> 1:13:54.360 the Union to dress and like Trump's gonna be like 1:13:54.400 --> 1:14:02.800 tonight we're honoring, going to be It's gonna be us 1:14:02.880 --> 1:14:04.880 about TURNI quits and how to get people out of 1:14:04.920 --> 1:14:09.160 vault toilets. So there's then there's like a rash of 1:14:09.200 --> 1:14:17.840 these vault toilet tragedies near tragedies. Uh, so we're going 1:14:17.920 --> 1:14:22.439 to close because oh, back to this, so we realize 1:14:22.439 --> 1:14:24.160 some I don't know who found this guy. There's a 1:14:24.200 --> 1:14:28.760 guy that sings the news. He takes news stories and 1:14:28.800 --> 1:14:31.960 to write songs so you don't have to read the news. 1:14:32.439 --> 1:14:34.960 You can just listen to his songs where he covers 1:14:35.000 --> 1:14:38.320 the news with piano accompaniments. 1:14:39.360 --> 1:14:41.439 Yeah, piano news. 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:44.640 Reads piano news. So he writes the song about the 1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:47.759 news story, puts the news story up on social media 1:14:47.880 --> 1:14:49.840 on one screen, and the the other half is him 1:14:49.880 --> 1:14:54.760 performing his song about the news. So he did the 1:14:54.800 --> 1:15:01.840 news on this vault toilet issue. And he says it 1:15:01.920 --> 1:15:05.839 starts with him saying if I dropped my watch into 1:15:06.160 --> 1:15:19.920 some public excretion, I say that's it for me. Dog Uh. 1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:23.600 And he has done one and we're gonna close with it. 1:15:24.160 --> 1:15:24.280 Uh. 1:15:25.320 --> 1:15:28.960 Our license on the very controversial ride On by Christopher 1:15:29.040 --> 1:15:33.679 Denny has expired, and KRINN rather than renewing our rather 1:15:33.720 --> 1:15:36.439 than forking over our few thousand bucks that it caused 1:15:36.520 --> 1:15:39.360 us to have Chris Denny's right on for a year, 1:15:40.120 --> 1:15:44.600 we're gonna switch to only using music that our listeners 1:15:44.840 --> 1:15:46.679 write and perform. 1:15:47.240 --> 1:15:49.280 We've gotten a ton of submissions already. 1:15:50.439 --> 1:15:53.639 Chester the Midwester we use some dog dirt and dirt 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:54.400 send one over. 1:15:55.320 --> 1:16:00.400 Dirt, and if you're not all musical, you could do 1:16:00.479 --> 1:16:02.200 like spoken word poetry too. 1:16:04.560 --> 1:16:08.240 The music is I do like I started listening to 1:16:08.280 --> 1:16:11.880 that day, Henry rollins, I take that back, everybody. 1:16:11.920 --> 1:16:16.599 We need the music, so for twenty so for twenty 1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:20.479 twenty four, we're only using listener sourced music to close 1:16:20.520 --> 1:16:22.880 the show. And we're not going to tell you who's 1:16:22.880 --> 1:16:24.640 doing it every time, but every time you'll find it 1:16:24.680 --> 1:16:26.719 the show liner notes and we're only telling you who's 1:16:26.720 --> 1:16:29.400 doing Knox, We're kicking the whole thing off. This is 1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:31.439 the first one right mention this. We commissioned it. We 1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:34.040 sent him, Hey, you like singing about the news, why 1:16:34.040 --> 1:16:38.600 don't you sing about cats and schizophrenia? So he composed 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:41.920 original music. If you don't like to read, you know though, 1:16:41.920 --> 1:16:43.519 you already heard the story, so we just talked about it. 1:16:43.600 --> 1:16:46.760 Let's just say you hadn't, or you skip that part here. 1:16:46.920 --> 1:16:50.879 Now you can hear the news saying to you, oh. 1:16:50.720 --> 1:16:54.599 But he riffs off it, and you know Signamese cats 1:16:54.640 --> 1:16:55.960 are involved in this. 1:16:56.080 --> 1:16:59.320 Yeah, oh wow, yeah, schizophrenia, Siamese cats. You see what 1:16:59.400 --> 1:17:04.240 this is going on? So, uh dig in, We're gonna 1:17:04.240 --> 1:17:05.439 go gut Krin's Hog. 1:17:06.680 --> 1:17:09.520 And stick around for the chapter Oh. 1:17:09.439 --> 1:17:13.960 And after the song? Yeah, Oh, shoot man, how many 1:17:13.960 --> 1:17:16.519 people are we gonna lose because they're gonna hear the 1:17:16.640 --> 1:17:18.599 end of music and turn it off and not already 1:17:18.600 --> 1:17:19.320 told them about it. 1:17:20.320 --> 1:17:23.639 Yeah, just stick around, you gotta stick around. The Hunter 1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:25.439 thing is gonna be good. 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:28.840 Man. Do Read's Piano music, and then stay tuned for 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:33.160 chapter seven of me Eater's American History, The Long Hunters 1:17:33.880 --> 1:17:38.800 seventeen sixty one to seventeen seventy five, and remind you 1:17:39.600 --> 1:17:47.200 what comes after seventeen seventy five, The Revolution seventeen seventy six. Yeah, 1:17:47.320 --> 1:17:49.519 So if you're wondering, like why those age brackets, you 1:17:49.560 --> 1:17:53.599 will find out when you listen that. Why what did 1:17:53.680 --> 1:17:56.960 Daniel Boone and the boys who kind of deer? Why 1:17:57.000 --> 1:18:02.439 did their era end with the Revolution? You don't know. 1:18:02.800 --> 1:18:05.680 I have no Chris damn sure don't know what I 1:18:05.720 --> 1:18:10.280 found out about him today, But I'm not gonna tell 1:18:10.280 --> 1:18:14.559 because I don't know if his mom listens, Does she 1:18:14.640 --> 1:18:17.400 listen more than you, because if not, she's not going 1:18:17.439 --> 1:18:17.880 to hear it. 1:18:18.240 --> 1:18:21.439 I don't know if she knows what a podcast is. 1:18:21.600 --> 1:18:28.400 She's like, I didn't listen to that episode. Alright, stay 1:18:28.439 --> 1:18:30.759 tuned for reads. What's it called? Reads? 1:18:30.800 --> 1:18:31.880 Pianos Reads? 1:18:31.880 --> 1:18:40.000 Piano news? Chapter seven, Long Hunters, Thank you guys, got some? 1:18:41.280 --> 1:18:48.200 He ain't got a twin thinks now hearing voices, this 1:18:48.360 --> 1:18:51.320 can't say to breathe? And who's that other guy in 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:55.840 my house watching me? Maybe I can't do ball? 1:18:59.240 --> 1:19:03.120 The last time I think I fought in North am 1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:04.920 I going in sade? 1:19:07.160 --> 1:19:07.920 This really? 1:19:08.840 --> 1:19:09.840 Is this a fantasy? 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:13.920 How come I bought that cat? Now there's me my 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:16.960 hear cat owners saying, I think I'm lost my bad 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:21.720 Based the pony studies, I think they're probably right Saturdays. 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:25.080 If I don't, If I don't, please, I'm gonna need 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:26.160 some pett and balls. 1:19:26.200 --> 1:19:27.240 It's their paint. 1:19:27.479 --> 1:19:31.519 Forty five cat came on, thinking, bye, are you okay? 1:19:31.600 --> 1:19:51.240 The straight jacket's only come in light? Chapter seven? Gearing up. 1:19:52.920 --> 1:19:56.759 Becoming a successful long hunter required more than steely nerves, 1:19:56.760 --> 1:20:00.559 the hunger for adventure, and an intimate knowledge of the land, escape, 1:20:00.560 --> 1:20:04.760 and wildlife of the first Far West. Without the right tools, 1:20:05.280 --> 1:20:14.719 you were not gonna last long. In seventeen sixty nine, 1:20:15.240 --> 1:20:18.360 a large party of long hunters, some twenty or more, 1:20:18.800 --> 1:20:22.280 assembled in the frontier settlements along the New River in 1:20:22.400 --> 1:20:26.600 western Virginia. The men had plans to hunt the Cumberland 1:20:26.720 --> 1:20:29.280 River drainage on the far side of the Cumberland Gap. 1:20:29.880 --> 1:20:33.960 You'll recognize some of their names, Casper Mansker, the Bledsoe brothers, 1:20:34.400 --> 1:20:38.519 and John Baker. Two years earlier, Baker had been on 1:20:38.640 --> 1:20:41.400 that ill fated trip to New Orleans where his party 1:20:41.439 --> 1:20:45.240 boded their hides down the Mississippi, sold them off, and 1:20:45.280 --> 1:20:49.160 got robbed of their cash on the way home. Despite 1:20:49.200 --> 1:20:54.040 the obvious risks, the call of opportunity prevailed. Setting out 1:20:54.080 --> 1:20:57.840 in June, this newly assembled party took the Warriors Path 1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:01.840 across the headwaters of the Tennis River, moving through the 1:21:01.880 --> 1:21:06.000 Cumberland Gap to the Cumberland River. They then traveled downstream 1:21:06.200 --> 1:21:09.519 to where Meadow Creek flowed in. That's where they'd set 1:21:09.600 --> 1:21:14.320 up their station camp in a spot known as Price's Meadow. 1:21:14.920 --> 1:21:17.519 If you're looking for that place today, it's on the 1:21:17.600 --> 1:21:20.479 south side of the Cumberland River. You can just look 1:21:20.520 --> 1:21:25.560 for a historical marker near Rubbing Bucks Barbecue. 1:21:25.640 --> 1:21:28.320 The party broke up into groups of three or four hunters, 1:21:28.360 --> 1:21:31.559 and they got after it. Every five weeks, the groups 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:34.960 planned to return to their station camp with their harvests 1:21:34.960 --> 1:21:39.240 of hides loaded on their horses. The hunt was successful. 1:21:39.760 --> 1:21:42.679 Within a few months, the party hit amassed some five 1:21:42.760 --> 1:21:46.400 hundred white tailed deerskins, but one day a group of 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:50.160 twenty five Cherokees discovered their camp while the men were 1:21:50.200 --> 1:21:54.360 out hunting. The cherokees stole the long hunter's cash and 1:21:54.439 --> 1:21:58.439 some of their gunpowder. They also took off with some clothing, 1:21:58.600 --> 1:21:59.679 pots and kettles. 1:22:01.080 --> 1:22:05.200 With what little gunpowder the long hunters had left, continuing 1:22:05.200 --> 1:22:09.080 to hunt would have been feudle, so Isaac bledsoel rowed 1:22:09.160 --> 1:22:12.320 back to the settlements with some of the men to resupply. 1:22:13.600 --> 1:22:17.759 Upon their return, the hunt resumed. The men hunted until 1:22:17.800 --> 1:22:21.840 April of seventeen seventy, when half the party hauled a 1:22:21.880 --> 1:22:25.360 pack train of deerskins and furs back east. 1:22:26.640 --> 1:22:30.240 Casper Mansker and the remainder of the long hunters stayed behind. 1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:34.080 They decided to build two boats and two trapping canoes, 1:22:34.400 --> 1:22:37.280 which would have been made from bark sown over a 1:22:37.320 --> 1:22:41.200 frame of lashed saplings. They also made use of a 1:22:41.240 --> 1:22:44.680 third boat that had been abandoned on site, perhaps by 1:22:44.800 --> 1:22:49.280 French hunters or traders. The hunters loaded up their hides 1:22:49.320 --> 1:22:51.880 and meet and gear, and started to head down river 1:22:52.000 --> 1:22:55.840 to the colonial settlement of Natchez on the Mississippi. This 1:22:56.040 --> 1:22:59.519 was an incredible journey of hundreds of river miles. The 1:22:59.520 --> 1:23:02.920 men would have canoed down the Cumberland River to the Ohio, 1:23:03.360 --> 1:23:06.680 down the Ohio to the Mississippi, and down the Mississippi 1:23:06.720 --> 1:23:11.960 to Natchez. At French Lick, the present day site of Nashville, Tennessee, 1:23:12.640 --> 1:23:15.360 they saw what was, by all accounts, the largest number 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:19.080 of buffalo and wild game they had ever encountered in 1:23:19.120 --> 1:23:22.919 any one place. After killing a few of the animals 1:23:22.960 --> 1:23:25.920 and using their hides to cover their open boats, they 1:23:26.000 --> 1:23:29.680 continued downriver until they reached the mouth of the Cumberland. 1:23:31.040 --> 1:23:34.000 At this point, the men were dealing with some spoilage 1:23:34.120 --> 1:23:36.519 in the bear meat that they'd harvested back in the 1:23:36.560 --> 1:23:40.439 Cumberland River country, not surprising given the length of their 1:23:40.560 --> 1:23:43.040 journey and this being the warmer months of the year, 1:23:43.720 --> 1:23:46.320 so they decided to convert some of the bear meat 1:23:46.400 --> 1:23:49.960 into bear greece. To do this, they would have discarded 1:23:50.000 --> 1:23:53.519 the lean red meat and retained just the fat. They 1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:56.719 then simmer the fat in kettles to separate the oil 1:23:56.960 --> 1:24:01.040 or grease from the solids. The valuable grease would have 1:24:01.160 --> 1:24:04.160 likely been sewn into sacks made of deer, elk, or 1:24:04.200 --> 1:24:08.840 buffalo hide. During this process of rendering bear grease, they 1:24:08.920 --> 1:24:13.559 get robbed again. A war party at Chickasaws makes off 1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:17.920 with their guns and ammunition. At this point, you'd be 1:24:18.200 --> 1:24:21.479 justified in assuming that this long hunting party would come 1:24:21.560 --> 1:24:25.120 to an end. I mean enough bad luck is enough, right, 1:24:25.760 --> 1:24:29.280 But it does not come to an end. The Chickasaws 1:24:29.400 --> 1:24:33.080 didn't take the white men's oils or furs, so the 1:24:33.200 --> 1:24:37.280 hunters continue downstream, and they eventually are able to sell 1:24:37.320 --> 1:24:41.920 their skins and bear grease in Natches. After the sale, 1:24:42.439 --> 1:24:45.919 some of the men commence their journey homeward, but Casper 1:24:46.080 --> 1:24:50.000 Mansker stays a while in Natches, likely because he seems 1:24:50.120 --> 1:24:54.439 to have gotten sick. Upon recovering, he too sets out 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:58.519 for home, traveling upriver in a boat with John Baker. 1:24:59.160 --> 1:25:01.360 The two men events actually join up with a party 1:25:01.360 --> 1:25:04.599 of horse traders who are heading over land to Georgia. 1:25:05.880 --> 1:25:09.080 Mansker and Baker then break off from the horse traders 1:25:09.120 --> 1:25:13.679 and cut north through East Tennessee and then finally onto 1:25:13.720 --> 1:25:17.960 the New River, likely arriving in late summer or early 1:25:18.080 --> 1:25:23.519 autumn after more than a year away from home. Now 1:25:23.680 --> 1:25:26.880 that is what you would call a long hunt. 1:25:27.760 --> 1:25:30.920 There's a lot to take in about that story. One 1:25:30.920 --> 1:25:33.120 of the main things that might have surprised you was 1:25:33.160 --> 1:25:36.320 the way the Native American hunters took some supplies from 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:39.519 the hunting party that they saw as trespassers, but they 1:25:39.520 --> 1:25:42.960 didn't take everything from them. In the following chapter, we'll 1:25:42.960 --> 1:25:46.240 be talking about why something like that might happen. But 1:25:46.320 --> 1:25:49.479 what we're gonna dive into here is the critical nature 1:25:49.479 --> 1:25:53.160 of those supplies and equipment used by the long hunters, 1:25:53.640 --> 1:25:57.040 from guns and ammunition to knives and hatchets. We're going 1:25:57.080 --> 1:25:59.519 to cover the gear that allowed them to do what 1:25:59.600 --> 1:25:59.960 they did. 1:26:01.479 --> 1:26:04.640 We'll begin with one of the most iconic pieces of 1:26:04.680 --> 1:26:08.960 the long hunter's kit, the Kentucky Rifle, also known as 1:26:09.000 --> 1:26:12.680 the Kentucky Long Rifle. Not only is it central to 1:26:12.720 --> 1:26:16.479 their adventures, it remains one of the most legendary guns 1:26:16.479 --> 1:26:20.120 in American history. The rifles weren't just renowned for their 1:26:20.160 --> 1:26:25.280 function and aesthetic. These were the first uniquely American firearms. 1:26:25.840 --> 1:26:28.839 We're gonna get into some finer details about these guns, 1:26:29.160 --> 1:26:33.799 but let's first cover the very basics the long hunters 1:26:33.880 --> 1:26:38.960 hunted with flintlock muzzleloading rifles. We'll get to the flintlock 1:26:39.040 --> 1:26:41.720 part in a few minutes, but let's first look at 1:26:41.760 --> 1:26:46.439 what specifically a muzzleloader is by talking about what it 1:26:46.680 --> 1:26:49.920 is not. If you look at your standard rifle or 1:26:49.960 --> 1:26:52.640 shotgun that you're gonna use for this year's deer or 1:26:52.720 --> 1:26:56.240 duck season, you'll see that the shell is loaded into 1:26:56.360 --> 1:26:59.600 the breach of the gun, meaning it's loaded into the 1:26:59.680 --> 1:27:02.519 end of the barrel that you're standing at, not the 1:27:02.680 --> 1:27:06.400 end where the bullet comes out. Well, that's the defining 1:27:06.479 --> 1:27:11.000 feature of a muzzleloader. A muzzle loader is loaded from 1:27:11.000 --> 1:27:14.320 the muzzle end or the front opening of the barrel, 1:27:15.439 --> 1:27:19.320 and these guns weren't loaded with complete cartridges that combined 1:27:19.479 --> 1:27:25.280 primer gunpowder and a lead projectile in a brass casing. Instead, 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:29.160 the load, or shell as we call it, was assembled 1:27:29.400 --> 1:27:33.800 by the hunter inside the barrel. First, a hunter would 1:27:33.800 --> 1:27:38.720 pour a charge of loose gunpowder down the barrel. They 1:27:38.720 --> 1:27:41.759 could measure it out or just take a good guess 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:45.120 and free pour it. Then they'd take the bullet, which 1:27:45.200 --> 1:27:48.679 was a simple lead ball, and wrap it in a patch, 1:27:49.200 --> 1:27:53.200 a greased piece of fabric or thin leather that cradled 1:27:53.240 --> 1:27:56.439 the ball like how a Hershey's kiss is cradled in 1:27:56.479 --> 1:28:01.000 its wrapping of aluminum foil. That package of ball and 1:28:01.200 --> 1:28:04.880 patch would be shoved down the barrel with a ramrod. 1:28:05.200 --> 1:28:08.680 It was a pretty tight fit. Now, it's important to 1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:12.960 keep in mind that all Kentucky long rifles were muzzleloaders, 1:28:13.240 --> 1:28:17.519 but not all muzzleloaders were Kentucky long rifles. And it's 1:28:17.560 --> 1:28:21.200 also important to note that the long hunters journeying into 1:28:21.280 --> 1:28:26.200 Kentucky wouldn't have said they were carrying Kentucky long rifles. 1:28:26.880 --> 1:28:30.400 That name didn't take hold until later in the seventeen eighties, 1:28:30.439 --> 1:28:33.960 and in fact it was something of a misnomer then, 1:28:34.600 --> 1:28:39.280 as the rifles would be more accurately associated with Pennsylvania, 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:44.599 where they took on their defining characteristics. You'll actually see 1:28:44.600 --> 1:28:48.400 them referred to as Pennsylvania rifles here and there in 1:28:48.479 --> 1:28:49.719 the historical record. 1:28:50.200 --> 1:28:54.680 So this can all be a bit confusing whether you 1:28:54.760 --> 1:28:58.959 call them Kentucky rifles or Pennsylvania rifles. These iconic weapons 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:01.840 derived from a pres that assessor weapon that arrived in 1:29:01.880 --> 1:29:06.919 North America with distinctly European roots. That early gun, the Jaeger, 1:29:07.400 --> 1:29:11.480 was shaped by a combination of two key design features. 1:29:12.400 --> 1:29:16.080 One was German and it's called rifling. Now, we mentioned 1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:19.080 this word a minute ago, and it's important, as rifling 1:29:19.200 --> 1:29:22.360 is where the word rifle comes from. Rifling refers to 1:29:22.400 --> 1:29:25.479 the spiral grooves that are cut into the inside or 1:29:25.600 --> 1:29:29.360 bore of a rifle's barrel. Historians disagree on how this 1:29:29.400 --> 1:29:33.240 innovation came to be, but regardless, rifling is what gives 1:29:33.320 --> 1:29:35.639 a slug or projectile it's spin. 1:29:36.520 --> 1:29:38.680 Just like a good spiral pass with a football. 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:42.599 A spinning projectile is stable in flight and thus much 1:29:42.640 --> 1:29:46.840 more accurate. We just explained how a musloading rifle is 1:29:46.880 --> 1:29:50.439 loaded with the fully assembled load of powder, patch and 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:53.680 ball crammed down the end of the barrel. Well, the 1:29:53.720 --> 1:29:56.040 only thing left to do in order to make that 1:29:56.120 --> 1:30:00.479 gun go boom is somehow ignite the gunpowder. That's where 1:30:00.520 --> 1:30:04.960 the term flintlock comes into play. The flintlock ignition system 1:30:05.080 --> 1:30:07.840 was a design tradition that came from the French, or 1:30:07.920 --> 1:30:10.480 rather it exploded out of Paris. 1:30:10.120 --> 1:30:11.480 With much enthusiasm. 1:30:12.120 --> 1:30:16.720 This ignition system replaced earlier cruder mechanisms designed for the 1:30:16.760 --> 1:30:21.040 same purpose. The flintlock system featured a spring loaded hammer 1:30:21.080 --> 1:30:23.719 that was fitted with a small chunk of flint held 1:30:23.760 --> 1:30:27.320 in place by a clamp. Pull the rifle's trigger, and 1:30:27.360 --> 1:30:30.519 the hammer crashed down on a hinged piece of steel 1:30:30.800 --> 1:30:34.600 that flung open to reveal a small pan of gunpowder. 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:38.960 In a synchronized bit of wonderment, the flint hitting the 1:30:39.000 --> 1:30:42.360 steel created a flash of sparks that landed right into 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:46.759 the now exposed pan of powder, igniting it. The flames 1:30:46.800 --> 1:30:49.760 from this ignition would jump through a touch hole in 1:30:49.800 --> 1:30:52.719 the side of the barrel and ignite the much bigger 1:30:52.720 --> 1:30:58.479 load of gunpowder. Within bang, a rather boom out comes 1:30:58.560 --> 1:31:02.799 the lead ball spin smooth and fast thanks to the rifling. 1:31:03.600 --> 1:31:06.879 As an aside, when you hear somebody say a flash 1:31:06.960 --> 1:31:10.360 in the pan to describe something short lived or less 1:31:10.360 --> 1:31:13.679 than promised, that's where the same comes from, a little 1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:18.280 blast of powder that failed to ignite the main charge. 1:31:18.479 --> 1:31:24.560 When German gunsmiths, the pioneers of rifling, adopted the French flintlock, 1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:28.559 the result was this rifle known as a yagger. Now, 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:34.479 for you connoisseurs of yagermeister, that's German for hunter. So 1:31:34.520 --> 1:31:37.000 how do we get a uniquely American gun. From this 1:31:37.120 --> 1:31:41.040 European lineage, well Yaggers came to North America in the 1:31:41.120 --> 1:31:45.160 seventeen hundreds with the German immigrants who would settle in 1:31:45.200 --> 1:31:50.200 the Lancaster Valley of Pennsylvania. Lancaster became the largest western 1:31:50.280 --> 1:31:53.840 town in Colonial America, and as it grew and as 1:31:53.880 --> 1:31:58.280 folks migrated from there down through the Shanandoah Valley, those 1:31:58.400 --> 1:32:04.280 gunsmithing traditions spread. Now, keep in mind these guns. Back then, 1:32:04.520 --> 1:32:10.320 these muzzleloaders were entirely handmade. Every spring and screw and 1:32:10.400 --> 1:32:13.800 piece of metal, no matter how small, was built by 1:32:14.040 --> 1:32:18.719 the hands of an individual gunsmith. There are an infinite 1:32:18.800 --> 1:32:22.160 number of little details we could get into about this process, 1:32:22.320 --> 1:32:25.679 but here's just one. The barrel started out as flat 1:32:25.800 --> 1:32:30.519 pieces of metal, basically long flat bars that were actually 1:32:30.720 --> 1:32:34.559 hammered into cylinders. The hole in the middle of one 1:32:34.560 --> 1:32:38.679 of these cylinders would be smoothed, polished, and rifled. Will 1:32:38.720 --> 1:32:42.320 explain that in a minute too, with nothing but crude 1:32:42.360 --> 1:32:46.240 hand tools. The making of these rifles was an intricate 1:32:46.400 --> 1:32:52.320 expression of the finest craftsmanship, and these designs evolved not 1:32:52.400 --> 1:32:54.240 in a board room or in the R and D 1:32:54.479 --> 1:32:57.760 lab of some company, but in the hands of individual 1:32:57.800 --> 1:33:03.800 gunsmiths working on individuals guns informed by the feedback of 1:33:03.920 --> 1:33:05.600 individual customers. 1:33:06.600 --> 1:33:09.960 Two further innovations took place that would turn the Jaeger 1:33:10.120 --> 1:33:12.960 into the Kentucky rifle, and they both happened in the 1:33:13.000 --> 1:33:16.800 New World. One was the lengthening of the barrel, which 1:33:16.840 --> 1:33:20.320 would typically be forty to forty eight inches long. The 1:33:20.560 --> 1:33:24.040 iconic long barrel gave the charge of powder more time 1:33:24.120 --> 1:33:28.000 to full ignite, increasing the SHOT's velocity, and the longer 1:33:28.080 --> 1:33:32.480 trajectory out of the barrel also increased accuracy by stabilizing 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:37.320 the projectile's path. The second innovation that defined the Kentucky 1:33:37.439 --> 1:33:41.240 rifle was a shrinking of the bore size, which meant 1:33:41.240 --> 1:33:45.160 the gun fired a smaller projectile. European guns at the 1:33:45.200 --> 1:33:50.280 time traditionally shot larger projectiles up to seventy five caliber 1:33:50.360 --> 1:33:53.719 or more, meaning a sphere of lead about three quarters 1:33:53.720 --> 1:33:57.320 of an inch wide. For a long hunter in particular, 1:33:57.560 --> 1:34:01.000 there was an obvious advantage to the smaller It helped 1:34:01.040 --> 1:34:03.599 reduce the amount of powder and lead they needed to 1:34:03.640 --> 1:34:05.439 carry with them into the back country. 1:34:17.160 --> 1:34:19.759 Back in those days, they weren't talking in the same 1:34:19.960 --> 1:34:24.800 caliber nomenclatures used today. Their common unit of measurement for 1:34:24.920 --> 1:34:29.400 bore diameter was how many balls for a particular rifle 1:34:29.560 --> 1:34:32.880 could be produced from a single pound of lead, which 1:34:32.880 --> 1:34:36.360 would translate roughly to how many deer could be killed 1:34:36.800 --> 1:34:39.400 with a single pound of lead. Think of a modern 1:34:39.439 --> 1:34:42.839 day conversation about fuel economy and cars. Someone might say 1:34:43.000 --> 1:34:45.880 my car gets twenty five miles to the gallon of gas. Well, 1:34:45.920 --> 1:34:49.320 a long hunter might note that his gun got forty 1:34:49.360 --> 1:34:54.560 eight shots to the pound of lead. One source described 1:34:54.720 --> 1:34:59.160 Pennsylvania rifles in general as firing quote a ball no 1:34:59.360 --> 1:35:03.000 larger than thirty six to the pound, which would be 1:35:03.320 --> 1:35:07.160 a fifty three caliber meaning a bore diameter of zero 1:35:07.200 --> 1:35:11.680 point five to three inches, so just barely over a 1:35:11.720 --> 1:35:16.360 half inch wide. For comparison's sake, a roughly forty five 1:35:16.439 --> 1:35:20.160 caliber rifle, which was preferred by most long hunters, would 1:35:20.200 --> 1:35:24.479 get about forty to forty eight balls per pound of lead. 1:35:25.520 --> 1:35:28.000 I'll point out that this ball's per pound of lead 1:35:28.080 --> 1:35:33.479 measurement is actually where our contemporary shotgun gauge system that 1:35:33.520 --> 1:35:37.080 we use today comes from. When you hear a shotgun 1:35:37.120 --> 1:35:40.040 described as a twelve gage or twenty gauge that's a 1:35:40.080 --> 1:35:44.000 reference to how many lead balls of a particular diameter 1:35:44.479 --> 1:35:46.960 you can make out of a pound of lead. Meaning, 1:35:47.439 --> 1:35:51.680 if you cast twelve spherical lead balls with the diameter 1:35:51.800 --> 1:35:55.720 matching the diameter of the barrel of your twelve gage shotgun, 1:35:55.960 --> 1:35:59.519 they would add up to one pound. Likewise, if you 1:35:59.600 --> 1:36:04.280 divide a single pound of lead into twenty equal spheres, 1:36:04.680 --> 1:36:08.719 those spheres would be the bore diameter of your twenty 1:36:08.760 --> 1:36:09.720 gage shotgun. 1:36:10.960 --> 1:36:14.160 The long hunters in their contemporaries thought of rifles and 1:36:14.200 --> 1:36:18.080 ammunition in this way balls per pound, because they weren't 1:36:18.120 --> 1:36:21.360 carrying the set quantity of round balls or bullets into 1:36:21.400 --> 1:36:25.280 the back country. They were casting these projectiles themselves out 1:36:25.280 --> 1:36:28.400 of bars of lead. This was the most efficient means 1:36:28.400 --> 1:36:31.120 of transporting all of the ammunition they'd need in the 1:36:31.120 --> 1:36:34.880 first far West. They hauled their lead in bars that 1:36:34.960 --> 1:36:38.719 weighed several pounds each. Then to form bullets, they would 1:36:38.760 --> 1:36:42.840 cast that lead into round projectiles over a campfire by 1:36:42.880 --> 1:36:46.680 pouring molten lead into a cast. Achieving some level of 1:36:46.720 --> 1:36:51.000 consistency was important. Bullets needed to be smooth and relatively 1:36:51.080 --> 1:36:55.440 clean of creases, seams, and pitting. We can only imagine 1:36:55.439 --> 1:36:58.400 that casting bullets must have been a frequent activity at 1:36:58.400 --> 1:37:02.400 the station camps where the long hunters deposited their skins 1:37:02.400 --> 1:37:06.320 and stored their supplies. Stores of lead and melting ladles 1:37:06.400 --> 1:37:09.040 which they'd used to melt and pour their lead were 1:37:09.120 --> 1:37:12.440 communal gear that was left at camp, but each individual 1:37:12.560 --> 1:37:15.120 hunter would have had a bullet cast that matched his 1:37:15.200 --> 1:37:18.840 own rifle. Keep in mind these weapons were all handmade 1:37:18.880 --> 1:37:24.080 by individual gunsmiths, and each had their own unique irregularities 1:37:24.160 --> 1:37:25.280 and specifications. 1:37:26.560 --> 1:37:29.640 Another chore required to keep their guns running would have 1:37:29.720 --> 1:37:33.400 been napping or shaping flint from fist sized pieces of 1:37:33.439 --> 1:37:37.000 suitable rock chirt or obsidian, the same types of rock 1:37:37.360 --> 1:37:41.400 that Native Americans used to make arrowheads. This flint, when 1:37:41.439 --> 1:37:45.680 struck against steel, was what produced the spark. Although we 1:37:45.760 --> 1:37:48.719 don't have any sort of detailed insight on this point 1:37:48.760 --> 1:37:52.000 through lime and draper or our other sources, we can 1:37:52.120 --> 1:37:54.880 only imagine that the long hunters would keep in camp 1:37:55.200 --> 1:37:58.599 a store of chirt or other toolstone that they could 1:37:58.640 --> 1:38:02.360 shape into flints if they did run out. This was 1:38:02.479 --> 1:38:06.200 one supply that would have been relatively easy for them 1:38:06.240 --> 1:38:08.200 to source out in the field. 1:38:09.160 --> 1:38:12.559 Gunpowder with something else long hunters might have known how 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:15.040 to produce on their own. In a pinch, it could 1:38:15.080 --> 1:38:19.880 be made from a concoction of batguano, sulfur, wood, ash, 1:38:20.000 --> 1:38:23.680 and the dowsing of their own urine, But all available 1:38:23.720 --> 1:38:27.400 evidence suggests they simply purchased powder back in the settlements. 1:38:27.520 --> 1:38:32.519 Outside of the most dire circumstances, high quality gunpowder imported 1:38:32.560 --> 1:38:36.360 from Great Britain and her other colonies was readily available, 1:38:36.400 --> 1:38:39.920 and it was cheap, so cheap that domestic manufacture of 1:38:39.960 --> 1:38:43.320 gunpowder in the colonies that became the United States was 1:38:43.360 --> 1:38:47.879 not economically viable. There were exceptions in periods when trade 1:38:47.960 --> 1:38:50.960 was interrupted or when Great Britain was in a state 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:54.599 of war and restricted the supply of gunpowder going outside 1:38:54.600 --> 1:38:59.320 of its borders, but generally, gunpowder in the colonies came 1:38:59.320 --> 1:39:03.479 from overseas and it was abundant. The counts frequently mentioned 1:39:03.520 --> 1:39:06.479 that the long hunters set out with large supplies of 1:39:06.600 --> 1:39:09.920 lead and powder. They'd transport this powder and store it 1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:14.080 in their station camps and larger containers, probably small kegs, 1:39:14.400 --> 1:39:17.400 but individual hunters would carry their powder in the field 1:39:17.600 --> 1:39:21.800 in a powder horn, another essential piece of gear made 1:39:21.840 --> 1:39:24.880 from the horn of a cow or buffalo. It would 1:39:24.880 --> 1:39:27.720 be fitted with a stopper at the pointy end and 1:39:27.880 --> 1:39:30.240 used to pour a charge of powder down the muzzle 1:39:30.280 --> 1:39:30.759 of the gun. 1:39:32.120 --> 1:39:35.320 As we saw at the top of this chapter, those supplies, 1:39:35.360 --> 1:39:39.400 along with the rifles themselves, were sometimes seized by Native 1:39:39.439 --> 1:39:42.439 Americans when they ran into parties of white men hunting 1:39:42.439 --> 1:39:46.520 on their land. The long hunter's rifles made an attractive 1:39:46.640 --> 1:39:49.800 prize because they were way better than the type of 1:39:49.840 --> 1:39:53.320 guns the Soul called trade guns that were in wide 1:39:53.320 --> 1:39:57.840 circulation among Native people. These trade guns were smooth bore 1:39:57.960 --> 1:40:01.640 guns or muskets that were produced use relatively cheaply in 1:40:01.720 --> 1:40:05.240 Europe and were frequently traded with the Native Americans by 1:40:05.280 --> 1:40:09.080 the colonial deer skin traders in exchange for deer hides. 1:40:09.800 --> 1:40:13.240 Smooth bore guns had smooth bores, so none of the 1:40:13.360 --> 1:40:17.960 rifling or spiraling grooves that gave the Kentucky rifle its 1:40:18.080 --> 1:40:23.120 accuracy by forcing bullets to spin as they exited the barrel. 1:40:23.720 --> 1:40:26.960 But smooth bore guns could be loaded more quickly, and 1:40:27.120 --> 1:40:31.559 again could be produced more cheaply. You could outfit an 1:40:31.720 --> 1:40:35.000 army with smooth bore guns for less money, so they 1:40:35.040 --> 1:40:38.640 were around. But when Native Americans ran into parties of 1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:42.040 long hunters on their traditional hunting grounds, they would often 1:40:42.120 --> 1:40:46.920 take the opportunity to, let's say, exchange those smooth boar 1:40:47.080 --> 1:40:51.559 guns for the long hunter's Kentucky rifles. We'll be hearing 1:40:51.640 --> 1:40:55.920 more about this interesting dynamic of theft and trade in 1:40:55.960 --> 1:40:58.799 the following chapter. There's a lot more to say. 1:40:59.800 --> 1:41:02.519 To get back to the elements that comprise the long 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:07.439 hunter's kit. Other than their rifles and necessary paraphernalia, the 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:10.640 cutting tools carried by long hunters with the most essential 1:41:10.680 --> 1:41:13.920 pieces of gear they had. Many would have carried what 1:41:14.080 --> 1:41:17.840 was then called a clasp or folder knife, what we 1:41:17.840 --> 1:41:21.920 would today just call a pocket knife or a jackknife. 1:41:21.960 --> 1:41:26.160 They also carried larger fixed blade knives, commonly described in 1:41:26.160 --> 1:41:30.639 the historic record as butcher knives or sometimes scalping knives, 1:41:31.160 --> 1:41:33.760 six to ten inches long. They were used for all 1:41:33.920 --> 1:41:39.479 manner of purposes, eating, scanning, fighting, whittling, carving, and yes, 1:41:39.520 --> 1:41:44.960 at times, removing human scalps. Most blades were imported from Europe, 1:41:45.200 --> 1:41:49.400 typically without handles, the owner would fashion and attach their own. 1:41:50.040 --> 1:41:53.640 Some surviving examples from this period have handles made from 1:41:53.800 --> 1:41:57.280 deer antlers. These would have been in ready supply given 1:41:57.320 --> 1:41:59.920 the occupation of the long hunters, and if you hear 1:42:00.160 --> 1:42:03.559 of a stag handle knife, that's what they were talking about. 1:42:03.720 --> 1:42:04.559 The antler handle. 1:42:05.800 --> 1:42:08.800 Modern blade steels are much stronger than what they had 1:42:08.840 --> 1:42:11.960 around then, and our knives hold a sharper edge than 1:42:12.000 --> 1:42:14.960 could be expected of the blades carried by long hunters. 1:42:15.280 --> 1:42:18.160 This meant they would frequently need to sharpen their knives, 1:42:18.439 --> 1:42:22.519 quite likely with stones found nearby. A smooth and wet 1:42:22.600 --> 1:42:25.639 river cobble would have been an adequate tool to sharpen 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:28.040 the soft steel that was in use back then. 1:42:29.400 --> 1:42:33.320 As ubiquitous as these knives were, a small axe was 1:42:33.479 --> 1:42:36.840 just as critical to the long hunter's kit. Some folks 1:42:36.920 --> 1:42:42.280 might use the words hatchets, belt axes, and tomahawks interchangeably today, 1:42:42.600 --> 1:42:47.120 but to the long hunters there were key distinctions. Long 1:42:47.200 --> 1:42:50.200 hunters like Boone would have carried a belt axe. These 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:52.639 were hung from the belt or carried on a shoulder 1:42:52.680 --> 1:42:56.360 strap and secured beneath the belt. They were smaller than 1:42:56.400 --> 1:42:59.280 what you might be picturing, maybe twelve inches or so 1:42:59.400 --> 1:43:02.680 overall and weighing less than a pound. The head of 1:43:02.680 --> 1:43:07.000 the axe had a squarish appearance. The pole the end 1:43:07.120 --> 1:43:11.480 opposite the bit or cutting surface was flat and rectangular, 1:43:11.800 --> 1:43:14.120 and could be used as a hammer for any number 1:43:14.120 --> 1:43:17.680 of tasks. The eye, or the opening in which the 1:43:17.800 --> 1:43:22.400 handle was seated, was a tapered, oblong shape. As they 1:43:22.439 --> 1:43:25.120 would with a knife. The owner of a belt axe 1:43:25.240 --> 1:43:28.559 would commonly need to haft it or put a handle 1:43:28.640 --> 1:43:29.960 on it themselves. 1:43:31.280 --> 1:43:34.759 These belt axes were different from a round poled, round 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:38.519 eyed trade axe that sleek distinctive profile we would most 1:43:38.520 --> 1:43:42.000 commonly call it tomahawk, and from the long axes these 1:43:42.040 --> 1:43:44.600 men would have carried on their horses for use in 1:43:44.720 --> 1:43:49.160 shelter building or other big projects. We can certainly imagine 1:43:49.160 --> 1:43:52.639 that when Casper Mansker and its contingent decided to build 1:43:52.720 --> 1:43:56.360 canoes for that long ride down river to Natchez, they 1:43:56.360 --> 1:43:59.160 would have used belt axes to pill away the sheaves 1:43:59.160 --> 1:44:02.680 of elmbark used for the hulls of the boats, for 1:44:02.760 --> 1:44:06.799 butchering bison and elk, setting traps, shaping and pounding stakes 1:44:06.840 --> 1:44:09.920 for shelter, and any number of other tasks in which 1:44:09.960 --> 1:44:13.080 long hunters had to reshape some part of their environment 1:44:13.200 --> 1:44:17.760 to better suit their needs. The belt axe was indispensable. 1:44:18.120 --> 1:44:22.080 When it came to equipment. Long hunters needed practical, utilitarian 1:44:22.120 --> 1:44:26.920 items that served multiple purposes and that they could repair themselves. 1:44:28.080 --> 1:44:30.799 They had to shoe horses, do leather work, and build 1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:35.520 all manner of items necessary to the hunt, such as canoes, shelters, 1:44:35.560 --> 1:44:39.559 and fur and hide handling equipment like fleshing beams and 1:44:39.600 --> 1:44:43.960 stretching boards. Steel traps cost six to eight dollars a 1:44:43.960 --> 1:44:47.080 piece back then, making them one of the most significant 1:44:47.120 --> 1:44:51.240 costs of a long hunt. Tuning and repairing traps required 1:44:51.240 --> 1:44:54.559 the skill set of a blacksmith, as they often needed 1:44:54.600 --> 1:44:59.599 to fabricate trap parts, including pans and triggers. Gunsmithing skills 1:44:59.600 --> 1:45:03.639 were ass essential. Boon and likely other long hunters could 1:45:03.680 --> 1:45:08.719 skillfully restock a rifle, repair and replace parts, nap flints 1:45:08.720 --> 1:45:12.400 for the ignition system, and generally troubles you any issues 1:45:12.439 --> 1:45:15.479 that arolls with a rifle while on the hunt. Among 1:45:15.560 --> 1:45:18.960 the tools they would bring were files, bellows to heat 1:45:19.040 --> 1:45:22.080 up the fire for metal working purposes, and what they 1:45:22.160 --> 1:45:24.000 called a hand vice. 1:45:25.080 --> 1:45:28.840 Also known as a gunsmith's vice or a clockmaker's device. 1:45:29.320 --> 1:45:32.479 A hand vice was used to hold small objects being 1:45:32.520 --> 1:45:33.000 worked on. 1:45:33.560 --> 1:45:34.760 Picture a large. 1:45:34.479 --> 1:45:38.000 Pair of tweezers with wider jaws, or the type of 1:45:38.040 --> 1:45:41.840 pliers you'd use for putting seams in sheet metal. The 1:45:41.920 --> 1:45:44.960 jaws were spring loaded and tightened with a wing nut 1:45:45.040 --> 1:45:49.000 and screw. Long hunters also traveled with what's called a 1:45:49.040 --> 1:45:53.160 screw plate, a plate of iron with different sized threadholes 1:45:53.240 --> 1:45:56.360 cut into it, forcing a piece of metal through the 1:45:56.439 --> 1:46:00.000 holes that would impart an external thread to a screw's surface. 1:46:00.840 --> 1:46:04.240 If you've done some basic machining, you're probably familiar with 1:46:04.280 --> 1:46:06.840 what it looks like to tap a hole using a 1:46:06.920 --> 1:46:11.040 cutting implement to create or clean up internal threads. This 1:46:11.080 --> 1:46:13.800 is a bit like the inverse of that process, and 1:46:13.840 --> 1:46:16.840 they would have used it to fashion replacement hardware for 1:46:16.880 --> 1:46:20.840 their rifles or traps. It's remarkable to consider that the 1:46:20.880 --> 1:46:24.240 long hunters and other travelers in the back country were 1:46:24.280 --> 1:46:28.320 actually fabricating metal parts. Today you might bring along a 1:46:28.400 --> 1:46:31.479 multi tool on a long back country hunt. These guys 1:46:31.479 --> 1:46:37.160 were bringing along complete miniature workshops alls. 1:46:36.880 --> 1:46:39.800 Which were tools used to punch holes in leather, where 1:46:39.840 --> 1:46:43.560 another vital piece of equipment often mentioned in the sources. 1:46:44.240 --> 1:46:47.640 These would sometimes fold out from the backside of a 1:46:47.720 --> 1:46:52.080 clasp knife. The reason that all was so indispensable is 1:46:52.160 --> 1:46:56.720 quite simple. In addition to being metal workers, occasional gunsmiths 1:46:56.800 --> 1:47:01.639 and woodworkers. The long hunters were also hobblers, and that's 1:47:01.640 --> 1:47:04.200 because one item that would have been in constant need 1:47:04.240 --> 1:47:08.760 of repair or replacement was their footwear, the moccasins they 1:47:08.840 --> 1:47:12.760 fashioned from elk and buffalo hides. You'll recall that these 1:47:12.840 --> 1:47:15.720 elk and buffalo hides were thicker and heavier than the 1:47:15.760 --> 1:47:20.160 deer skins that were the long hunter's primary target. These 1:47:20.200 --> 1:47:24.200 thicker skins made for more durable footwear, but they still 1:47:24.280 --> 1:47:28.720 required constant maintenance. A pair of moccasins might only take 1:47:28.760 --> 1:47:32.440 a long hunter a few hours to make, but repairing 1:47:32.520 --> 1:47:37.400 them was probably a task that required near daily attention. 1:47:38.600 --> 1:47:41.360 We do know that anyone spending time outdoors in this 1:47:41.479 --> 1:47:45.759 time was very much aware of the risks of getting cold. 1:47:46.520 --> 1:47:50.120 One source describes hunters in the late seventeen hundreds as 1:47:50.680 --> 1:47:56.480 apprehensive of rheumatism, a term then used to describe rheumatoid arthritis. 1:47:57.280 --> 1:48:01.240 They blamed rheumatism on cold feet and slept in their 1:48:01.280 --> 1:48:04.720 half faced shelters with their feet to the fire in 1:48:04.800 --> 1:48:08.800 hopes of warming them and drying out their moccasins. It's 1:48:08.840 --> 1:48:12.040 probably safe to assume that many of them had circulation 1:48:12.240 --> 1:48:18.840 issues and numbness from wearing wet moccasins year round, but 1:48:19.080 --> 1:48:23.600 every mile in wet moccasins and every cold night was 1:48:23.760 --> 1:48:27.200 endured with a single objective in mind. 1:48:28.520 --> 1:48:32.920 Henry Skaggs, Daniel Boone, Casper Mansker and their companions weren't 1:48:32.960 --> 1:48:37.160 simply equipping themselves to survive the First Far West, although 1:48:37.600 --> 1:48:40.479 that in and of itself was not an easy task. 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:44.920 Their tools were all a means to an end. They 1:48:44.960 --> 1:48:49.200 had a very specific, labor intensive purpose to their travels, 1:48:49.240 --> 1:48:52.759 producing deer skins in large volume for the commercial market. 1:48:53.320 --> 1:48:56.559 But of course they were not the only hunters on 1:48:56.600 --> 1:49:07.720 the landscape of the First Far West.