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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything. The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

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Speaker 1: or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to

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Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L

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Speaker 1: I T E dot com. All Right, everybody, but we

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Speaker 1: got something really special for you. One, we have a

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Speaker 1: outdoor podcast, meaning our podcast, today's podcast was recorded outdoors.

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Speaker 1: It's the only podcast you can get where someone gets

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Speaker 1: a hog in the podcast, So stay tuned for that.

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Speaker 1: And then there's something even more special at the end

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Speaker 1: of this very special podcast, because we're gonna be releasing

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Speaker 1: for free a chapter of me Eater's American history, The

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Speaker 1: Long Hunters, which covers that little slice of American history

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Speaker 1: that occurred between seventeen sixty one and seventeen seventy five

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Speaker 1: when fellas like the famed Daniel Boone were making their

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Speaker 1: living hunting for white tailed deerskins in the First Far West.

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Speaker 1: So the chapter we're going to stick in is called

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Speaker 1: gearing up. It's about the blade tools, firearms, and other

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Speaker 1: implements employed by the famed Long Hunters. So enjoy the

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Speaker 1: show and at the end again listen to chapter seven

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Speaker 1: of Meat Eater's American history The Long Hunters. If you

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Speaker 1: like it, and you will, then you can head over

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Speaker 1: to Audible or Apple Books or wherever you get your

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Speaker 1: books and pick it up. It's an audio original, not

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Speaker 1: available in print, only available to listen to enjoy. All right, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show. It's a little different because we

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Speaker 1: have to keep it at a very low volume, which

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Speaker 1: is gonna make it hard if I get fired up.

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Speaker 1: You know. The comedian Mitch Hadberg observed that he didn't

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Speaker 1: like camping because when he got in a fight with

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend, it was hard to express his anger because

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Speaker 1: he couldn't slam the door and he had to just

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Speaker 1: try to zip the tent real hard. It's like, fuck you, this.

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Speaker 2: Guy like hanging up on smartphone.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, you can't slam it.

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Speaker 2: No, I just can't throw it.

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Speaker 1: In the old days, you'd be like, well okay then, mom,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming home right now. You can't do that anymore now,

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Speaker 1: And so if I get fired up, you won't know.

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Speaker 1: The listener won't know, because here's the problem. We're actually

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Speaker 1: hunting right now. We've done shows ice fishing and you

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Speaker 1: can talk all you want, but this is a hunting episode.

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Speaker 1: We're hunting hogs in Texas. You could say, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: in Texas. Everything's always open, so you know, when they

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Speaker 1: say you could probably think of other examples. Chris Gill,

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Speaker 1: when Boardin's Kitchen Confidential came out, they said, a rare

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Speaker 1: glimpse into kitchen culture. And I'm trying to think of

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Speaker 1: other documentaries or whatever books a rare glimpse. You can't

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Speaker 1: think of any examples. I mean almost any documentary, a

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Speaker 1: rare glimpse into you know, a rare peak behind the curtain. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a rare peak into a Texas hog hunt

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Speaker 1: or deer hunt. Because we're in Texas, we're about the

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Speaker 1: South Texas as you can get. We're on what you

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Speaker 1: just do not I'm just looking at levels here you

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Speaker 1: mess it is, don't pass the cod where's it way?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah? Yeah? And Karn, remember that you got it.

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Speaker 1: This this rare, this rare glimpse into a hog hunt

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Speaker 1: involves a rifle borrowed rifle that we've determined. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: can't adjust the scope. No, it's maxed out. It's maxed out.

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Speaker 1: So you gotta you gotta, you gotta a little high,

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Speaker 1: a little of the left on close pigs, Oh, sorry,

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Speaker 1: low and right on close pick it hits high left. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We're about of South Texas. You can get. The nearest

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Speaker 1: major town is Brownsville, which is a crossing. There's a

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Speaker 1: crossing into Matamorris, Mexico. We're closer to Raymondville. We're on

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Speaker 1: a chunk of Eeteria, which is a very old, very

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Speaker 1: large ranch that has been you know, Eeteria is portioned

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Speaker 1: into different owner.

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Speaker 3: It says on this chair eighteen fifty eight. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 3: sitting in the Uteria chairs from eighteen fifty eight.

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Speaker 1: And I'm I'm buddies with a gentleman that whose family

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Speaker 1: owns this part of this ranch that we're on. And

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Speaker 1: we've been down here. This is a third time I've

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Speaker 1: come down for the White Tail Rut. So it's a big,

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Speaker 1: big place. A lot of it's a big place. A

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Speaker 1: lot of Texas properties are managed for deer. This place.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't really say that. So there's no feed. They

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Speaker 1: don't they don't do any kind of feeding. They don't

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Speaker 1: have any deer feeders out, they don't have any kind

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Speaker 1: of deer blinds. It's not fenced, ah, but it gets

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Speaker 1: hunted a bit, but it's just real, you know, they

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Speaker 1: run cattle on it. But it's a real chill, relaxed,

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Speaker 1: very cool property. And we've come down here a few

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Speaker 1: times right before Christmas, which is when the peak rought

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Speaker 1: down here is going on, and we've had extraordinary success

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Speaker 1: rattling bucks down here during this week, great success rattling

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Speaker 1: bucks the week before Christmas. This year, we mix it

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Speaker 1: up a little bit because we brought down a DSD.

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Speaker 1: Listeners will know Dave Smith decoys because Dave Smith was

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. We brought down a DSD deer dy

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Speaker 1: So it's like a fight postured buck, and over the

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Speaker 1: course of three days we rattled in over thirty bucks.

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Speaker 3: There's a little uh lizard eating some sort of caterpillar

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Speaker 3: right here on this.

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Speaker 1: Oh right there.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: He's no, he's not always different.

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Speaker 2: Shot up.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to meet some sort of caterpillar seasons

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Speaker 3: probably in I.

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Speaker 1: Know it's Texas.

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Speaker 3: Was I saying, sorry, how many bucks you ruddled?

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Speaker 1: Oh, rattled in a lot of bucks. But this year

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Speaker 1: we used this decoy. We actually had two bucks come

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Speaker 1: in and level the decoy, come in and attack the decoy,

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Speaker 1: and all those bucks come in virtually probably every one

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Speaker 1: of those bucks came in and bristled his hair up

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Speaker 1: and like postured, and whether or not they got nervous

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Speaker 1: and laughed or whatever, but in some way or another

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Speaker 1: acknowledged engaged with a decoy, which is pretty fascinating, and

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Speaker 1: got a coat pigs. And now we're recording the show,

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Speaker 1: and so we came out to we're out in a

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Speaker 1: big pasture and we came out to a spot where

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Speaker 1: we're in like a corner of brush. This is real

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Speaker 1: brush country. We're in a brushy little corner and some

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Speaker 1: mesquite looking out over an open pasture. There's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of cattle out there. There's some horses somewhere around here.

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Speaker 1: I can't see him right now, and a lot of hogs.

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Speaker 1: We picked this corner because a lot of hogs come

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Speaker 1: through this corner. We've noticed, and we got our DSD

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Speaker 1: buck decoy out there. Even though we're not really actively

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Speaker 1: buck hunting right now, the pigs are are they rapping

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Speaker 1: around there about around the corner. Oh shit, So just

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Speaker 1: to give you a flavor, Seth's gonna go ahead hit

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Speaker 1: a little rattles. Seth's gonna take a couple actual horns.

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Speaker 1: So we got a couple. When I'm holding here, our

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Speaker 1: two horns off a four point buck. So I'm two

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Speaker 1: horns off of Michigan eight, and we bone sawed the

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Speaker 1: eye guards brow tis off it to make it more

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Speaker 1: comfortable gripping and se It's going to do a quick

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Speaker 1: little rattle session here, just so you can get the

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Speaker 1: flavor for what's going on. H. Did you bring your

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Speaker 1: grunt to? No, you don't have the grunt to. No, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's the rattle sash, Now, Seth give your formula. How

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Speaker 1: you think about it.

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Speaker 3: I just rattle for a bit like that. Every once

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Speaker 3: in a while I give a couple of grounds. But typically,

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Speaker 3: like if they're within earshot, they're they're in like shooting

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Speaker 3: range within seconds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, so as long as you just heard him rattle, Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to an area and we'll creep into an

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Speaker 1: area and get set up and like park creep into

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Speaker 1: an area and get set up, and usually I would

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Speaker 1: see half of the half of the bucks that show

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Speaker 1: up show up before you've completed. Oh yeah, you're first

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Speaker 1: rattle session, yep, And they run in and then they like, well,

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Speaker 1: pump the brakes, maybe forty yards anywhere from ten to

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Speaker 1: fifty yards from where the noise is, Yeah, to try

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Speaker 1: to get a read out the situation. It got to

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Speaker 1: the point where like when Bucks didn't show up, we

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Speaker 1: were like, what's wrong? Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was weird when we had nothing show up.

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Speaker 1: So I do that.

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Speaker 3: Depending on the setup, but typically three different times I'll rattle,

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Speaker 3: I'll have a break for about a minute, and I'll

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Speaker 3: rattle again. And I would say, I don't know, twenty

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Speaker 3: five percent of the time, Bucks would come in on

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Speaker 3: the second one, and then I would take another break

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Speaker 3: and then rattle for like a third sequence. And I

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Speaker 3: don't think we ever had Box come in on the

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Speaker 3: third sequence.

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Speaker 1: No, a typical sash. We probably don't sit in twelve minutes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like something still might happen, but it's like I'd

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Speaker 1: rather just go to a new spot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that last session yesterday, the third rattle worked, I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that was that was the crazy. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: okay it did. You're right, but what's funny is one

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Speaker 1: also came in within seconds. Yeah, you know, that was

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Speaker 1: just pure chaos. At dusk last night we had a

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Speaker 1: rattle set. We had our best rattle session at dusk

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Speaker 1: last night and called in four bucks. Now these are

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Speaker 1: not big bucks. They're like nice bucks, but they're not

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Speaker 1: a huge box. We called in four bucks last night

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Speaker 1: and Seth got one with some stickers on him. So

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Speaker 1: he was a ten point turned thirteen. Yeah, like a

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Speaker 1: Michigan ten that had three kickers, a genuine thirteen pointer.

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Speaker 2: There's a cold deer, yeah, super cold here.

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Speaker 1: Then this morning we went out rattled again and I

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Speaker 1: arrowed one. I errowed the seventh buck that came in

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Speaker 1: this morning. Yeah, I'm anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: That's like, it's insane, it's just crazy.

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Speaker 1: How many sets do we have this morning? Was it

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Speaker 1: this morning? Yeah? Was it four? I'll tell you. I'll

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Speaker 1: pull up my stats three or four. So here's my stats.

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Speaker 1: On day one we did nine sets.

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Speaker 3: Four.

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Speaker 1: On day one we did nine sets, We did nine

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Speaker 1: rattle sessions.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there are two bigs right.

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Speaker 1: And rattled in seven bucks. On day two we did fourteen.

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Speaker 1: We were being turned and burned and burned we did

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Speaker 1: fourteen setups and rattled in sew thirty six. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: rattled in twenty one bucks due way better. We were

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Speaker 1: cranking that day everything from four ki's four keys still

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Speaker 1: a little basket.

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Speaker 3: Tends and and changed the strategy as far.

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Speaker 1: As got it figured out. I'll talk about that in

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Speaker 1: one second. Then today we killed a buck on the

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Speaker 1: seventh setup, which was seven setups, and killed the seventh

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Speaker 1: buck on the seventh setup seven seven nice today today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we tried a bunch of different ways of going about this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this a little strategy talk. If you want to try this,

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Speaker 1: we would set up together, okay, so the rattle guy

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Speaker 1: and the bow guy next to each other. The problem

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Speaker 1: you'd have is is you know animals like you know

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Speaker 1: when people say with turkeys that when you're calling to

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Speaker 1: a turkey, that turkey knows what tree you're under. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he knows when he hears it from two hundred

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Speaker 1: yards away, he knows what tree it is and what

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Speaker 1: side of that tree you're on. I read a good

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Speaker 1: line and Little Big Man where a guy was talking

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Speaker 1: about how good someone is at tracking, and he said,

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Speaker 1: when he looks at the ground, he can tell what

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Speaker 1: birds flew overhead, so they know where that noise is

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Speaker 1: coming from. So when you rattle and the buck comes

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Speaker 1: busting in, he knows exactly where to look. He knows

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Speaker 1: exactly where he's looking, and he might see the decoy,

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Speaker 1: but he's looking from the decoy to where the noises

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Speaker 1: from the decoy to where his noises. He sees the buck,

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Speaker 1: the decoy buck, but he also is like, well, where

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Speaker 1: is the thing that was fighting? So then we started

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Speaker 1: trying to spread out by a bit. What happened? I

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Speaker 1: was just a big fat black hawk right our outer cles,

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Speaker 1: right there, all right there at the tree edge. That's

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Can you get a shot? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know, you mean the other side of the

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Speaker 1: thing or our.

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Speaker 2: Side, our side?

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Speaker 1: How many yards he's walking out?

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Speaker 5: I'm bad at estimating.

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Speaker 1: He's like at the tree line over there here. Let

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Speaker 1: me give you a range finder. Just poke out and

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Speaker 1: range him. This place is crawling with pigs right now,

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Speaker 1: like you wouldn't believe.

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Speaker 5: It.

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Speaker 1: Measure twice. Karn's gonna go get a range on him.

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Speaker 1: I flipp it the other way. There you go. So

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Speaker 1: what we eventually hit on was if there's any appreciable wind,

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Speaker 1: like we would want to go here here. When we

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Speaker 1: first started doing this, we would always think, Okay, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna approach the area with the wind in your face,

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Speaker 1: of course, and then you're gonna rattle like like just

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Speaker 1: like setting up with a predator call. When you set

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Speaker 1: with the predtor call, you want to win in your

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Speaker 1: face and you're looking into the wind or crossways knowing

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Speaker 1: that that kyote is gonna come and want to get

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Speaker 1: down wind of you, but you're looking up when because

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Speaker 1: when he gets down windy, it's gonna be too late.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to catch him work in his way to

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Speaker 1: get down wind.

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Speaker 5: It's like between one thirty and.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's pretty far. I mean for for our iron,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty far. So get shot them shooting iron so

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Speaker 1: uh ah. But that so we eventually hit on was

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Speaker 1: when those bocks come into that what's wrong? Oh right here?

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Speaker 1: Oh shit, crin, How do I plug my ears? My

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Speaker 1: eyd bones on easy easy rest Undernea's kate up up

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Speaker 1: chamber the round chamber of the round she did.

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Speaker 2: He's definitely keyed up, but he's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Oh ship. That's the first time trends ran off.

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Speaker 3: Are you sure that that might be the first time

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Speaker 3: there's ever been a big Hunter in podcast?

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Speaker 2: That might be that just might be.

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Speaker 1: You might have to Did you see what kind of

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Speaker 1: hits she got on? I couldn't tell.

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Speaker 2: He didn't go down. It was a oh, yeah, we

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Speaker 2: might have to do a little interimation.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're at the pause for a se.

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Speaker 2: Don't ask me. I got no idea what they can

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Speaker 2: and can't do. That's why this, this shot has been

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Speaker 2: fun because we've just been seeing so many bucks doing

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Speaker 2: buck stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, doing buck stuff, doing doing stuff that you rarely get.

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Speaker 2: Just oh, second shot. I wasn't ready for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a second shot. Assuming that's the same pig,

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Speaker 2: potentially a different pig.

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Speaker 1: I'd say it's dead now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're probably pretty Probably should send an

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Speaker 2: email to Phil, yeah, letting them know, Hey, Phil got

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Speaker 2: to chop about Trucually not much longer here, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: come back, folks, I tell you chuckle that podcast feel

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Speaker 2: that it's probably not usable, Like what is al Michael's

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Speaker 2: Do you know if they can't go to commercial and

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Speaker 2: there's like a player down or something, they got to

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Speaker 2: just talk you know what I mean.

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Speaker 6: Game, So they like start talking about stats and stuff

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Speaker 6: and whatnot. Yeah, you got any stats on hand? Well

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Speaker 6: the impressive stats. Oh, here's Steve. Steve's come back. Steve said,

293
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 6: already box old Steve. Here, Steve just picked up a

294
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Speaker 6: nice bullet casing here they come.

295
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Speaker 1: Sure they have a story, So do we have a

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Speaker 1: dead pig or what's gonna tell?

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Speaker 2: Tell your hunting story, Krent nice Corinne, Yeah, well we'll

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Speaker 2: get to it. I'm curious about that second shot because

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Speaker 2: me and Seth we're not ready for it.

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Speaker 1: That makes three of us. Every day I vowed to

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Speaker 1: like start getting real serious about hearing protection. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of being like, okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: get a good that's the experience that I that the

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Speaker 1: other day. I'm giving her like a motivational speech.

305
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Speaker 2: Where's the pig there?

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Speaker 1: It's it's uh, we just left land for now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll go get in a minute. Okay, tell your hunting story,

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Speaker 1: crin Well we got the first part.

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Speaker 5: Move your mic closer, as anyone who's observing on YouTube

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Speaker 5: could tell that I had just abandoned my seat.

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Speaker 3: If you're not watching on YouTube, you should pause this,

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Speaker 3: and yeah you should.

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Speaker 2: You should hit a computer.

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Speaker 1: Wait till you get home and watch on YouTube. Don't

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Speaker 1: say that, finish this and then rewatch there you go.

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Speaker 5: There It is as I was ranging two or three

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Speaker 5: different pigs, one just was like way too close and

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Speaker 5: then I just kinda couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Help it and I threw a bead.

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Speaker 5: I didn't I didn't make the best shot, even though

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Speaker 5: it was really really close.

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Speaker 1: It would have died.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's I guess part of Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She's far back. We found it standing back in there.

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Speaker 1: We went in there, dirt, found a little blood, and

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Speaker 1: we went back in there and was standing there, and

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Speaker 1: then I was trying to explain Krin where the head

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Speaker 1: wasn't She apparently already knew I hadn't put my hearing

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Speaker 1: protection in yet.

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Speaker 2: And that second.

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Speaker 1: Gave me a nice muscle break to the to my

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Speaker 1: mostly impaired.

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Speaker 7: Earlsive I knew, I knew it was a head off

334
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Speaker 7: to the.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

336
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Speaker 3: I feel like if you if you're at the point

337
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Speaker 3: where you're telling Krin like what she needs to be doing,

338
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Speaker 3: she already knows.

339
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Speaker 1: She's already she's already doing it. Yeah, I think, Yeah,

340
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Speaker 1: I'm going to graduate her in my mind up to

341
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Speaker 1: that position and not like I'm not like I'm talking

342
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Speaker 1: to my son. Yeah, I learned that real quick the

343
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Speaker 1: other day.

344
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Speaker 3: And I was like, all right, when he steps out,

345
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Speaker 3: all right, you stepped out enough for her.

346
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Speaker 1: This this is like a pig.

347
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Speaker 5: It's so much nicer the other one.

348
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Speaker 3: I mean, you think I think every time we come

349
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Speaker 3: through here, there's pig.

350
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Speaker 2: Do you think there? They could more could come through

351
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Speaker 2: now after post guarantee.

352
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Speaker 1: It nice so that even though I said, I'm not

353
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Speaker 1: like a great uh judge of pigs, you know, I said,

354
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Speaker 1: it look like a little bore. It's not big Old South,

355
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: but it's like yesterday the one I got, I got

356
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: the coveted uh pregnant sow, which is when they get

357
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: body fat. Well you don't want one is nursing because

358
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: they know that. And that's a stop. That's that feels

359
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: like the of the three we've butchered, that feels like

360
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: the best one. This one here, that feels to me

361
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, like and feeling it's this is some

362
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 1: lean country here, like I said, there's no there's no

363
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: feeders here or anything. It's just lean country. And uh,

364
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: the pigs here are just bones. You know, my boy

365
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: got a couple one time. Man, they were just hard

366
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Speaker 1: to like really get anything off.

367
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: But should we get the shooting iron handy? If we go?

368
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: If you're trying to get.

369
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Speaker 1: A second, I'm good on pigs. Do you need? Do

370
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: you want?

371
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: I'm good.

372
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: You got on pigs green? Yeah, we're good on pigs.

373
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: Pigs old, Okay, it's a success.

374
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, now we can do the puck.

375
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where was I? Where was I talking about? Oh?

376
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: Our setups? So this is our findings so far on rattling,

377
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: which we've put in a fair bit of attention to

378
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: at this point. So let me recap. I got a

379
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: little rattled.

380
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, sorry, you still hear that ring?

381
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: No, not that kind of rattle. Well, I was explaining

382
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: that we would at a time set up together, but

383
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: they were two keyed in, so then we would try

384
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: to get a little distance between the rattle and get

385
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: a little distance between the rattling and the spot. And

386
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: our thinking was our thinking was we were kind of

387
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: wanting to look into the wind because you were looking

388
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: at areas that you hadn't already put odor to, thinking that,

389
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, if the ones that are behind that are

390
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: down when aren't coming, so you'd look up, you know,

391
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: and we're approaching into the wind too. So we're approaching

392
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: into the wind. Imagine we've disturbed what's behind us. We're

393
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: now calling to things that we haven't walked through and

394
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: to things that haven't gotten our odor. And so we

395
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: would set up like that. What we kept finding is

396
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: it's thick enough country that they're playing that wind from

397
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: a little way out, and they're showing up consistently downwind,

398
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: making their kind of like almost like running into a

399
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: down wind position. And then they stop. Often they stop

400
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: when they see that decoy. They pump the brakes on,

401
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: which is good because if you don't have the decoys,

402
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: sometimes you find they just run through it, never stop.

403
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: So we eventually hit on this idea where the rattler

404
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: sets up down wind from the rattler. The rattler sets

405
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: up up wind from the decoy. So the rattler is

406
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: forty thirty forty would you say, thirty yards twenty.

407
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 3: Yards apparently set up, Yeah, theyware from I would say

408
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 3: fifteen yards to thirty.

409
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: Yards, yep. The rattler is fifteen to thirty yards from

410
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: the decoy, and the rattler is the decoys down wind

411
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: to the rattler, and then the archer wants to set

412
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: up fifteen to thirty down from the decoy, which when

413
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: that buck comes in and he's and he's staring at

414
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: that When that buck comes in and he's staring at

415
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: that location where that rattling is or registers the decoy,

416
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: he's in your zone, you know, and it sticks, so

417
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: you can't you know, you can't see everything. You kind

418
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: of got to pick your lanes. But he's likely to

419
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: come in and stop ten yards fifteen yards from where

420
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: you're at. What's funny is you'd think, well, what happens

421
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: when the buck stops between the archer and the rattler,

422
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: which is exactly what we did today. I actually had

423
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: to take my shot before I wanted to, because if

424
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: he took another step or two, I would have shot

425
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: Seth with my bow. Yeah, it would have already be

426
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,239
Speaker 1: a bloody arrow. I'm glad you didn't do that. Yeah,

427
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: it would have gone through the deer and then into Seth,

428
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: which whatever, you know.

429
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: No big deal, a second pass through just would have

430
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 3: went through the guts, all right.

431
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So but it worked beautifully. I think that that

432
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: is the system for rattling in thick country, running, running

433
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: and gunning, rattling in thick country. And you know what

434
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: it winds up being. It's you know what, it's so

435
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: similar to It's so similar to Jason phelps elk hunting strategy.

436
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: The way he likes to hunt bulls is hell. If

437
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: he finds a bull betted or finds a midday bowl,

438
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: he likes to sneak into like where that thing is not,

439
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: where that thing can't ignore it, where it can't ignore

440
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: a bugle yep. Like he's not going to go three

441
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: hundred yards to check out a bugle. He's just not.

442
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: He might bugle and return, but he's not gonna get

443
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: up and go, and he's not gonna get out of

444
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: his bed necessarily and walk. But when when you rip

445
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: a bugle fifty yards, he's gonna get up. Yeah, you're

446
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: in his face. And for like running and gunning rattling,

447
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: all you're really trying, Like what you're doing is you're

448
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: standing those bucks up and they're bounding in. I don't

449
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: know what they're coming from one hundred yards. It's an

450
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: interesting strategy in any situation where if you knew you

451
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: had deer, you knew you had a buck betted anywhere, Illinois, Michigan, whatever. Yep.

452
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: If you knew you had a buck betted, that you

453
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: might approach like that. Get in there with a buddy,

454
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: get in there and be like when I rattle, get

455
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: ready yeah, because we're in his zone. Yeah, and he

456
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: might be like, what in the world's going on?

457
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 3: You know, it'd be fun to try that in other

458
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: places than here, Like then.

459
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be as good. It's not gonna be

460
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: as good as here because there's so many deer and

461
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: the buck to do this seems like there's more bucks

462
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: than dose. Yeah, there's not.

463
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: It's probably equal, but there's just definitely seen more bucks

464
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: and it's like prime time all that.

465
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: But it could, it would be. It would be something

466
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: that I would try in other in other situations. You know,

467
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: it's something I would try in other situations. Is running,

468
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: gun running, gun rattling. I'm gonna trademark that turning burn

469
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: rattling turning burn. Yeah.

470
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: What's also cool being on the ground that close to him,

471
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's different than being up in a tree.

472
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: Being up in a tree is cool too, but there's

473
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: just something about being on eye level with them. When

474
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: they come in, it's pretty it's pretty cool.

475
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: You didn't see every hair that's standing up. Yeah, yeah,

476
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: that's That's one of the most surprising things is if

477
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: you look at the Dave Smith decoy deer decoy, it's

478
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: meant to look like bristled and he it's got a

479
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: really interesting texture to it. But when those deer come

480
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: in and they see that decoy, it's just like they

481
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: can picture a turkey coming in and seeing a strutter decoy.

482
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: What's he gonna do? He's gonna yeah, he comes in.

483
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 1: He's like, right, he comes in at first like picture

484
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: of Tom coming in where he's like, sure, hope no

485
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: one tries to kill me, Sure hope, no one tries

486
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: to kill me. And then all of a sudden he

487
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: sees a decon and he's like, oh yeah, you know,

488
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: forgets everything. Feathers pop out. Like these bucks come in,

489
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: they see that decoy and they they go into full strut. Yeah.

490
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: Oh it's wild, and they have such a strange They

491
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: cock their ears back, they start tipping their head. Two

492
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: of them started kicking dirt even works. Two of them

493
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: works scrapes or made a scrape. They're like drooling. Yeah,

494
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: licking their lips man a lot, and then they like

495
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: they look like my kids going into McDonald's.

496
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: They they go from like a normal a normal deer

497
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: like walking in so like stop see the decoy.

498
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: And then it's like slow motion all the way in,

499
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: all his hair standing out and they shiver it tay

500
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: jammed down between their legs like a G string. The

501
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: second time I used that, second time I use recently.

502
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, not every day.

503
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: No, I go months of I'll talk about a G string.

504
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: And I've had two occasions in the last hour. Was

505
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: it related guitar? One of them one just the joke,

506
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: the joke, not my joke, but a joke I heard.

507
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: I was trying to I was messing with a guitar

508
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: and remembered a person a former podcast guests who will

509
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: not identify, saying that the only instrument I've learned how

510
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: to play was ah and I was telling that, sharing that,

511
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: and then use it again. Out his tail tucked in

512
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: like a G string, hair puffed out, shaking, head cocked in,

513
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of lip licking, yeah, and coming at it

514
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: from all angles. And here's another thing from the surprise,

515
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: Like you picture two bucks fighting that they're gonna hit

516
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: heads right, Well, if you have a decoy that's stationary,

517
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: you see what the buck would prefer to do because

518
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: the decoy can't turn to face it. So the buck

519
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: kind of gets like, are you really honestly gonna let

520
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: me do this? And the buck pulls up alongside both

521
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: bucks that attack the decoy because it's not turning to

522
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: meet them right in the ribs. Yeah, like he's trying

523
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: to stab it. Yeah, he's like, if you're really gonna

524
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: let me do this, I'm going to give you all

525
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: eight of my times into your rib cage. Is what

526
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: both those bucks did. It's like that.

527
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: It's like the buck knows where it needs to hit

528
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: the other buck to kill it.

529
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: Yep.

530
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: It's like if you just let the deer do its thing.

531
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: It's like they're like just trying to kill each other. Yeah,

532
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: but no buck on his right mind and his right

533
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: mind is going to actually let another buck do it.

534
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: So you think they always meet head to head, But

535
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: he pulls up alongside, and and they pull up alongside,

536
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: and they stare and one got his head really close.

537
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: But then they when they charge, there's no announcement like

538
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: when they snap and go for it. It's out of

539
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: the blue.

540
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: I feel like that first one kind of pulled up

541
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: and almost looked the decoy in the eye for that

542
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: kind of turned and like eyed eye with him and

543
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: then went for it.

544
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: I think our decoy eventually started to smell too much

545
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: like seth from Carry Carry when they started to get suspicious,

546
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: and then we took Uh. A guy that uses the

547
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: DSD deer decoys is telling me, when you kill a buck,

548
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: take the tarsal glands off that buck and rub it

549
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: into your decoy and then just stole the tarsal glands

550
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: under the decoy. So we got some buck glands, then

551
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: the dog stole them.

552
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: That would have been cool to see that reaction, like

553
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: pre rubbing it and post rubbing it.

554
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: More. Yeah, there there was one buck today that would

555
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: look like it was going to mix it up with

556
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: that decoy. And Uh, my take on his body language

557
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: is he was not buying that smell. Yeah, I agree.

558
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: He got close and put his nose out and got

559
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: his nose maybe three feet from that thing, and his

560
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: hair just flattened out. Yeah, and then he walked off

561
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: like he lost all his.

562
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's tough to get that thing odorless

563
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: just because you're it's like.

564
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: You really got a bear hug it to move around.

565
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: It's not that easy to carry around just because it's

566
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 3: like a full sized deer decoy. And I would most

567
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: of the time just like throw it over my shoulder

568
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: because I was also carrying other stuff, rattling antlers and whatnot.

569
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think it if maybe if we had

570
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 3: like some sort of spray to like spray it down

571
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 3: real good, yep, and then rub it down with the

572
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 3: uh with the tarsal glands.

573
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if you took a bottle of rubbing

574
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: alcohol and gave it a little rub down and then

575
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: tarsal glanded it, it'd be bad ass. Do they bottle

576
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: that tarsal glen scent they make? They made sense, yeah,

577
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: but I kind of it's just much more bad ass

578
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: to rub it with your own deer man.

579
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good if you're in a spot where

580
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: you can get a doll or you like an earn

581
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 2: a buck state or something, you know, like get the well,

582
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: the dolls don't have the tarsal glands though, huh.

583
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: No stinky ones and those bucks. Oh we you know,

584
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: we should clarify because you don't come on the show enough.

585
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: Chris Gills here, Hi everybody, and Dirts here and Karn

586
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: of course, seth. Uh did you notice how many of

587
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: those bucks stank? Yeah, like when a buck comes through

588
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: and then he leaves, it's his it lingers, Yeah, it

589
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: lingers in the air man and that buck that I

590
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: had kind of to scare because I thought I was

591
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: gonna hit us to smell it. The whole time he

592
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: got close, I was like, Bud, you gotta take a bath.

593
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: Just a stinky buck. Yeah.

594
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: I smelled the drop tinme buck that we were after today.

595
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: I smelled him real good.

596
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: He was sanky. A lot of different personalities though, yeah,

597
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: a lot of different a lot of different responses. It

598
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: felt we didn't have enough a huge sample size. But

599
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,959
Speaker 1: it felt like bigger bucks were less likely to commit suicide. Yep,

600
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 1: you know makes sense. More likely to check stuff out. Yeah,

601
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: more likely to check stuff out, seth. You remember you're

602
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 1: familiar with Saint Anthony to find something right, Okay, check

603
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: this story out. So when we just did the live tour,

604
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: a guy told me the story that I met at

605
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: the live show, and then he emailed the story because

606
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: I said, email me that story because it's a great story.

607
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: We're talking about what explained Saint Anthony. I had never

608
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: heard of this. I honestly don't know what Saint Anthony.

609
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 4: He's the saying of lost items.

610
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: See, that's what it is.

611
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 3: I always growing up, if I lost something, my grandmother

612
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: would always say, you gotta say, Saint Anthony, say anthy,

613
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 3: police come around. Something's been lost and cannot be found.

614
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 3: And if you say that, it's like a little prayer

615
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: type thing.

616
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: Oh mokw something.

617
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: And if you say that, you'll you'll find whatever you're

618
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: looking for.

619
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: Well, let me back you up on that. This guy

620
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: uh long, it's kind of the convoluted story.

621
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: But the.

622
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: Quick of it is, they were out checking trail camps

623
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: a couple hours from home, lose the truck keys. Oh

624
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: so this guy and his body loser truck keys. And

625
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: they look and look and look and look for the

626
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: truck keys, trying to call someone. And you're proposing to

627
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: their buddies that like you, how about you make a

628
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: four hour drive.

629
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: Oh it's a tough sell.

630
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, they go all the way back to the

631
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: where the trail camp was and the tree stand was.

632
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: He says, real thick grass and vegetation back and forth.

633
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: Can't find it, and he does the the Anthony prayer.

634
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: The guy that didn't lose the guy accompanying the guy

635
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: that lost his keys, that's who's telling me the story.

636
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: He's accompanying his buddy. His buddy's lost his keys. He

637
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: does his Saint Anthony prayer. They're looking, and all of

638
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: a sudden, the guy's phone rings. The guy that lost

639
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: his keys phone rings, so he stops to converse on

640
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: the phone, and while he's conversing on the phone, realizes

641
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: that there's his keys. Now, who do you think it

642
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: was that called the man his buddy Anthony? Exactly? Man,

643
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: God is good? Exactly? Oh man, is that? I heard you? Exactly?

644
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: And I know hold honor that buddy? Ye something about

645
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: oh yeah, something about that. At the end of this episode,

646
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: you are going to hear chapter seven for free. You're

647
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: gonna hear chapter seven of me Eater's American History, The

648
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: Long Hunters.

649
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm very excited about this.

650
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: Oh you should be.

651
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm like, from what I've heard, very excited.

652
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: It's perhaps one of the things I used to tell people.

653
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: The thing I'm most proud of that I made My

654
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: best work was my Buffalo book because I was at

655
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: the height of my powers as a writer, because I

656
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: didn't have any other thing going on in my life.

657
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: That's all I was doing is just for two years,

658
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: I just worked on that book. My life was really simple,

659
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: no kids, wasn't married. It was just different back then.

660
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: A big old bull go out and grab hold of

661
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: big old bold that.

662
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 5: I actually thought that those were the utters.

663
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: That's just one. He's like, he's only got one utter.

664
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: So uh so, oh it does got to Yeah, he's

665
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: got to know. Damn, he's posting for us. Yeah, so

666
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: uh got's a stout looking critter in this thorn country

667
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: where so long hunters. Uh. It's pretty. It's really good.

668
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: It's really good. I believe it. It's narrated. It's audio only,

669
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: so it's not that you people shold understand. It's not

670
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: a print book. It's an audio original narrated by myself

671
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: and Clay Newcombe, exhaustively researched by doctor Randall.

672
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: I'm also excited that you and Clay are narrating it

673
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 2: because when you hear like audiobooks or whatever, and somebody

674
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: else is reading it. You talked about that one more

675
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: it's like it just kind of it can be a

676
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: real good or bad thing for the story.

677
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: Here's what we found in working on it is that's

678
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: not a close I feel we should get predator call

679
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:22,479
Speaker 1: out and bring it in here. So that's a good point.

680
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: That's I wouldn't worry about that yet.

681
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: Tell what was I saying?

682
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: Oh uh, you know books, A book that's meant to

683
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: that's written to be read, is best read. It's best

684
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: that you read it. Something that you're listening to is

685
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: just different. So when we made the Long Hunters, like

686
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: media's of American history is meant to be presented, it's

687
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: meant to be read, it's meant to be it's meant

688
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: to be listened to. It was like built specifically to

689
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: be listened to, which kind of makes it special. And

690
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: we do all the narration on it. It's really good.

691
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: So we're gonna put chapter seven, which is called Gearing Up.

692
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: It's about the equipment used by the Long Hunters at

693
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: the end of this episode to further titillate you and

694
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: prompt you to go and wherever you buy your books

695
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: and pick your copy up, download your copy for listening.

696
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: Cats and Schizophrenia.

697
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: This is not a This wasn't ready for that. That

698
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: was not kind of like that gunshot.

699
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: An academic study just came out, I.

700
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 5: Felt when I saw this article, I really thought it

701
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 5: was meant for Steve's eyeballs.

702
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: Cat Are you ready for this? You cat man?

703
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: No? Very far from a cat man?

704
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: You catman?

705
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: Dog man?

706
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: No cat man here I have, Well, my wife has

707
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: a cat. You're a cat man. I'm certainly not a

708
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: cat man.

709
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 2: You come around.

710
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a cat man. I don't touch the cat. Well, seth,

711
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: you might be curious to hear this, or not curious.

712
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: You might be alarmed to hear this. As a cat

713
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: what happened? As a cat man, I had a cat

714
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: named the cat. We had a cat named Maud when

715
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and Maud had its babies and

716
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: my dad's boot and ate them all. Oh, we had

717
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: a cat named Fig and I was like, tell the

718
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: story that my dad we tamed a stray cat. My

719
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: dad tamed it by leaving fish heads out for it,

720
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: cleaning fish and leave the heads out. And he loved

721
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: this cat. I don't know wise only cat. Well, he

722
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: liked that cat mad too, But he brought Fig over

723
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: to his buddy who is a hog farmer, and this

724
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: hog farmer has castrated thousands of hogs. He bought fig

725
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: over so that that guy could castraight fig. And they

726
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: put they cut a little hole in a gunny sack,

727
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: put fig in that gunnysack and snaked his little berries

728
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: out of the hole in that gunny sack. Well, the

729
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: cat fought him off. They he's castraight on hundreds of hogs.

730
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: Couldn't castraight that cat. That cat got out of there

731
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: were just a little nick and his scrub him and

732
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: never got fixed because there's no way there. My desk

733
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: just spend money on that. If his body couldn't do

734
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: it, it wasn't so that cat just like won the battle

735
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: and pro creation. And that cat would leave for sometimes

736
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: he'd go on like a ten day hiatus. Oh yeah,

737
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: and then he'd come right down the stairs come back home.

738
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 3: I had I had an old barn cat named wild Bill,

739
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: and he would do the same thing. He'd go on

740
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 3: like two week walkabouts gone, he'd be gone, he'd come back.

741
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: One time I caught him in a foothold by accident

742
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 3: in the fox set.

743
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 1: Oh, I caught my own cat one time.

744
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 3: I let him out, didn't phase him. He'd still go

745
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 3: on walkabouts with a little limp.

746
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: We caught our own cat, and we caught our own

747
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: cat trapping. Was that in a possum set on a

748
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: foot trap? Possum set? Caught our own cat in a

749
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: possum set. Let him out and he just followed us around.

750
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: He's like, what you guys are gonna show up? Let

751
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 1: him out there? He just tag along with the oction.

752
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: Uh oh, anyways, listen to this thing. Cat ownership and

753
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: schizophrennier related disorders in psychotic like experiences correlate, correlate to

754
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: cat ownership. Why it doesn't surprise me? Why you ask?

755
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: Because of something that you may have learned about listening

756
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: to this very podcast, the Meat Eater podcast. We did

757
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: an episode on cat scratch fever. Yeah, because we had

758
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 1: a guy on. Danny Bolton came on. Was that shit

759
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: called again?

760
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 2: That's why pregnant ladies shouldn't clean litter boxes? Right when

761
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: they say that if you're pregnant, don't you.

762
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: Have a cat cox ol Danny Bolton got toxoplasmosis from

763
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: eating raw I can't remember if it was goat or lamb.

764
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: It was goat. Goat, raw goat. And so there's a

765
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: ton of feral cats in Hawaii, so that cat shit

766
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: had somehow gotten on whatever and he ate it. And

767
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: toxoplasmosis has been linked to jackals. No, what is it jackals? Oh?

768
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: Or is it what's that other wild ass looking dog?

769
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: In Africa hyena hyenas Hyenas that have toxoplasmosis are more

770
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: likely to be killed by lions. There's risky yet, people

771
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: that you're more likely to die in an automobile accident.

772
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: If you've had toxoplasmosis. It removes your fear, but it

773
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: also apparently removes your ability to not can impact your

774
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: psychological state, and toxoplasmosis can link to schizophrenia related outcomes.

775
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: So when you hear it, when New Jersey cat ladies

776
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: come to mess with you, oh.

777
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 2: There's a reason why they're by.

778
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: So this is after you're ready through the conclusions. This

779
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: is after they recover from it. Our findings support and

780
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: association between cat exposure and an increased risk of broadly

781
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: defined schizophrenia related disorders. However, the findings related to pl

782
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: e as an outcome or mixed. There is need for

783
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: more high qualities. Just never mind all that. I like

784
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: to stick with the narrative. I don't want to read

785
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: all the disclaimers because I want to paint a damning

786
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: portrait of cat ownership. It's like mainstream media. But in

787
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: all fairness, they say there is a need for more

788
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: high quality studies in this field because there's some uncertainty.

789
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: But still, do you.

790
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 2: Do you know how cats get like because not every

791
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: cat has toxic plasmosis or you don't get so like,

792
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 2: what is it?

793
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: Outdoor cats are more I would imagine that cats that

794
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: have more of a chance to interact with cats.

795
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

796
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you nabbed a cat out of a you know,

797
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: right out of the womb and never let it see

798
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: another cat, it's probably had a little likelihood of get

799
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: in toxle plasmos. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the

800
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: book You want to see another herd change? Yeah, I'm

801
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: a big fan of the book Life and Death at

802
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: the Mouth of the Muscle Shell. Oh love that book.

803
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: And in an area that now sits underneath the water

804
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: because of an impoundment, but it was a journal of

805
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: a guy who spent time at the mouth of the

806
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: where the muscleshell flows into the Missouri but like I said,

807
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: now it's flooded lays at the bottom of Fort Peck Reservoir.

808
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: And I had talked on the podcast before about the

809
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: amount of just bloodshed in that book. Well, a guy

810
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: read it, and he made a guy an audience member,

811
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: read it and built a spreadsheet where he could track

812
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 1: all the killings. Mm hm you want to hear some totals. Yeah,

813
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: when you read Life and Death at the Mouse of

814
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: the Muscle Shell, you will read about one thousand, four

815
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy four dead wolves s wolf because in

816
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: that book, they're always going out and lace and buffalo

817
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: carcasses with strychnine yep, wolfing, and they'll be like, we

818
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: went to Bob's bait and had twenty four one day.

819
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: I can't remember what tribe it was. One day, one

820
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: of the planes tribes comes into the fort and they

821
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: are mighty pissed because their dogs all got killed. M

822
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah yeah, and they're like, stop putting that poison out,

823
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: killed all their dogs. Four hundred and seventy four wolves,

824
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty eight analope one hundred and twenty

825
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: eight buffalo one hundred and twenty one Indians thirty four whites,

826
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 1: among many other things. That are the deaths of which

827
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: are described in Life and Death of the Mouth of

828
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: the Muscleshell. So that's the number of deaths that occur

829
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: in his time in his journal. Wow, they did. Yeah,

830
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: and they'd be like we got onto three and everybody

831
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: shot a bunch and couldn't find anything. Yeah, they killed

832
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: a lot of ground. Six got to.

833
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 2: What uh what years does that take place during that journal?

834
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: Uh, he's there in the late in the early eighteen seventies.

835
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 4: It's something on the Muscleshell is hunting this fall up there,

836
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 4: and it's that kind of like more north of Great Falls.

837
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 4: It's like kind of you know, sage brushy gumbo type landscape,

838
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 4: big old griz print in the bottom of.

839
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: This grizz track. Yeah, hunter, Yeah, show you the picture.

840
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: It's kind of freaky, really, Yeah, to be there. He

841
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: notices too that some you can tell some stuff about

842
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 1: migrations back then in uh so a real spike and antelope.

843
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: There's an in November eighteen seventy one, so one hundred

844
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: and three years before I was born. They killed two

845
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty three antelope out of that Fort November. Wow,

846
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: I remember that part of the book, and it was

847
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: a big deal. Everybody's going up and killing all the antelope.

848
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: Thousands of antelope hanging out by the fort. Thank you

849
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: Craig for sending that in. Yeah, that's cool. Now here's

850
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: another little stats thing, a lot of stats today. We

851
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: had our buck Ratland stats. Those stats. This kind of

852
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: blew my mind. So there's a deal. In Wisconsin they

853
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: have a DNR website the tracks dogs killed by wolves. Okay,

854
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: this is this is pretty crazy. So it starts. It

855
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: must be when they start being able to have the

856
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 1: running season starting in July eight. So, for instance, July eight,

857
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: twenty three, Burnett County, one hunting dog killed seven year

858
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: old female blue tick trailing hound. Okay, that's July eight.

859
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: July twenty Clark County, one hunting dog killed and one

860
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: hunting dog injured. Walker trailing hounds. That was July twenty.

861
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: July twenty one, Lincoln County, one hunting dog killed six

862
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: year old female redbone trailing hound. The next day, July

863
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: twenty two, Bayfield County, two hunting dogs killed a four

864
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: year old male walker trailing hound and an eight year

865
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: old female red bone trailing hound. Seven days later, Burnett County.

866
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: One hunting dog killed five year old male blue tick

867
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: trailing hound. Four days later, August third, one hunting dog

868
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: killed three year old plot trailing hound. Why are they

869
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: getting killed in the summer because it's wolves killing dogs

870
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: running bears.

871
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: Oh, that's the bare season.

872
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: Now. I don't know if this is true, but someone's

873
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: pointing out cutting the hazard of cutting your hounds loose

874
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: near bait piles that wolves hitting are hinting and frequenting

875
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: those bait piles. And you're cutting your hounds loose near

876
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: bait piles, and it meant that thing starts cutting out,

877
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: baying or trailing. Yeah, those wolves are pounding it so up.

878
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: So this thing, I'm looking at tracks up till this thing.

879
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm looking at tracks up till December. Okay. Now the

880
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: running tally so in Wisconsin in these counties. In Wisconsin,

881
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: twenty five bear killed and seven bare hounds injured between

882
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: July and October twenty twenty three in northern Wisconsin. Wow, jeez,

883
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: and that's something. Yeah, that's that's yeah. That's a number, man,

884
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: that's a big number. That's just surprising every couple of

885
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: days all and it peaks like in that September October

886
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 1: and then trails off obviously in December, pounding on them

887
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: trailing dogs. Dang, I don't even know what I think

888
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I don't know. Trying to think of

889
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 1: what I think about that. I can see people saying,

890
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: if you like your dog's lot, I wouldn't turn them

891
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: out on numbars. And I could see someone saying a

892
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: lot of wolves. Yeah, I don't even know if I

893
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,479
Speaker 1: want to get back into this thing about the bird

894
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: name it now?

895
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 2: Oh god, I can see a quick tidbit the well,

896
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 2: I'm curious about it now that you mentioned it. What

897
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: do you mean now that you mentioned you did this

898
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 2: bird naming thing?

899
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: And did you listen to the show?

900
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 2: Not this one?

901
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: This one?

902
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: Which episode is it?

903
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: Recently?

904
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 3: You and cal and and I was on your side.

905
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: The Ornithological Society in the US has moved to rename

906
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: seventy bird species. Now they will periodically rename a bird.

907
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: For instance, as I pointed out, everyone knows there's a

908
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 1: blue grouse, but the Ornithological Society determined that blue grouse

909
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: was capturing actually two distinct species of grouse. So there

910
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: became out of blue became dusky and sooty. Yeah, makes sense.

911
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that the old squaw duck, that's a derogatory term,

912
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: and many people find that term offensive. So the Ornithological

913
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: Society came in and surgically took that duck and renamed

914
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: the long tail duck. Now they can't tell you what

915
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: the hell to call the dog, but it's just their

916
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: take on it. It's not you know, they're not like

917
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: the God of birds. But the Ornithological Society moved to

918
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: form try to formally rename the old squaw to the

919
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: long tail, therefore moving it away. Just like I don't know,

920
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: seven or eight squaw peaks, seven or eight, I don't know.

921
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: Is that probably more squaw creeks right got new names?

922
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: And I used to live in Missoula, Montana. One of

923
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: the primary peaks you'd see looking mostly west would be

924
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: Squaw Peak, and I remember, maybe as in the late

925
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands, it became Sacagawea Peak. There's a

926
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: Squaw Creek near where I live now that became storm Castle,

927
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: which seems like something from the Simpsons.

928
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: Storm Castle.

929
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: I remember he had storm King was his snowplow.

930
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 2: Oh those plow king, Like he was mister plow, and

931
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 2: then Barney got into it and he was the plow.

932
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 2: He was the competitor at home.

933
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, like storm Castle. It seems like if you if

934
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: you've got one of those really bad realtors, you know

935
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: those realtors it does when they do a subdivision and

936
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: then name it for what it replaced. So if there

937
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: used to be like a bunch of elk meadows, you'd

938
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: mow that ship down, pave it over, build a bunch

939
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: of houses, and be like, I'm gonna call this subdivision

940
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: olk Meadows. I'm gonna call this subdivision cattle Country. So yeah,

941
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: storm Castle, which seems like a like a make believe

942
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: white castle, like little cheeseburger, like a place that has

943
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: a name like we used to hunt an area called

944
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: Froze to Death. I'm like, that's a legit name. You

945
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: can tell that some that area is Frozen Death, Hanging

946
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: Woman Creek. Guess, let me guess storm Castle.

947
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 2: I mean there's no castles your storming.

948
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: I got friends that just can't I got friends that

949
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: can't stomach it, and they just and they can't call

950
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: it that.

951
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, where was I.

952
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: I felt that this?

953
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 3: Oh?

954
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: So they now have done the big play and they're like,

955
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: no more surgical renaming of things. We're gonna just rename

956
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: seventy birds. Any bird named after like any bird named

957
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: after a white European, regardless of what that person stood

958
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: for or did, gets a new name. And I felt,

959
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: and still feel that one it's a publicity grab. Two

960
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 1: it's a lot. It's not surgical. It's just it's blunt.

961
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: It's like it just it just reeks to me of

962
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: it reeks to me of a pr someone pointed out,

963
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and ornithologists pointed out that where this movement is getting

964
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: some resistance is the international ornithology community, who feels that

965
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: this is a distinctly American idea.

966
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you have an example of a bird?

967
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: No, just go listen to the episode, Chris.

968
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: I will, and the listeners should too if they haven't

969
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: heard it already. So I like that pitch.

970
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's birds out there named after. To give

971
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: you an example, the Stellar's J will no longer be according

972
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: to these guys, the Stellar's J will cease to be

973
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: the Stellar's J. They'll probably like the iridescent purple J.

974
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: But when which is great, they should have named it that.

975
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: I wish they were named that from the start. Yeah,

976
01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: but at this point it's there.

977
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 3: They probably named it Stellar's Jake because some dude named

978
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 3: Stellar still last name.

979
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: Because these dudes used to run around name and everything

980
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: after themselves. Stellar did a j he did a sea lion,

981
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: he did an eagle. He doesn't named anything after himself.

982
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: Was Was he a bad dude? I don't know. It's

983
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: just fallen out of favor now, like no one names

984
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: a new bird their own name, But it was the

985
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: practice in the eighteen hundreds that was a common practice

986
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: that you would name that. If you scientifically described a species,

987
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: you would name it. Now the rationale I said, I

988
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: wasn't going to revisit this whole thing, and here I am.

989
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: The rationale is they feel that new birders, new birders

990
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: who aren't of who are not of European descent, who

991
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: aren't a male of western European descent, that new aspiring

992
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: birders would be turned off to birding when they saw

993
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: this crazy, beautiful purple bird feeding on white mark pine cones,

994
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: white marked pine nuts in the rocky mountains, and they

995
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: might be like, good gracious, what a gorgeous bird. I'm

996
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: so happy to learn about that bird. And they look

997
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: and be like Stellar's jail jay, I'm getting out of

998
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: this birding. I think the I'm done burden. I think

999
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 1: the people that and I don't buy that are.

1000
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 3: Behind this and using all this energy to go through

1001
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 3: and change the names of seventy some birds just because

1002
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 3: they're named after dudes or people. If they took that

1003
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 3: energy and put that into preserving habitat for these birds

1004
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 3: to live in, we would all be living in a

1005
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 3: better world.

1006
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: That's my two cents on it. I yeah, I just

1007
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: I was with them, and now I just think it's yeah,

1008
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm not with them. I do no, no, no, I

1009
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: understood the surgical, occasional renaming. I just think that, like

1010
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: the seventy thing, I just felt like felt like a publicity.

1011
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, if it's named after something that's like offensive

1012
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: to someone, obviously.

1013
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 5: I think that. I think that's that that was the

1014
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 5: premise that there are certain people who might or do find.

1015
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: Offended just by the fact of offended by the ethnicity

1016
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: of someone that named a bird.

1017
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 5: That's that's very possible because I don't know for myself

1018
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 5: the full you know, seventy that have been that had

1019
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 5: been listed.

1020
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: That's what they're saying. They're saying that not that you're

1021
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: offended by a specific thing that you'd look and be like,

1022
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: it's offensive to me that that individual's distant relatives hailed

1023
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: from Western Europe.

1024
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 5: If that's that, that's kind of the definition of reverse

1025
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 5: racism in my opinion.

1026
01:03:54,400 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you wanna know more something about birds? Sure? Now,

1027
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: every boy dreams of being uh making his uh not

1028
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 1: every boy, mini boys dream of one day growing up

1029
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: and being like a trapper commercial you know, hunter commercial

1030
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 1: fishermen like you make your living out hunt. Yep. Well,

1031
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: these fellas in Montana got in that business all the

1032
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: wrong way. Uh. They got into the golden and bald eagle.

1033
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: Oh I right about this business?

1034
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, bro, these dudes did some It was

1035
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 2: an orchestrated thing.

1036
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were big time.

1037
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 2: Over a number of years.

1038
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, So they were selling on the black market

1039
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: at pretty good prices, like surprisingly good prices. Speaking of birds,

1040
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: Uh to you guys, I don't need I don't want

1041
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 1: to give their name. I mean you can find their

1042
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: name they're in Montana, but you know, I don't want

1043
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: to get their name. Uh. Three thousand, six hundred is

1044
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: the number that they're indicted on killing for the mark

1045
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: commercial market three thousand, six hundred golden and bald eagles.

1046
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: Now social media. I remember one time we were in Missouri, No,

1047
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 1: we were in Kentucky and I met a game warden

1048
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: in the game. We were talking about being out in

1049
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: the field, and I remember he was one of the

1050
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: first people that ever expressed to me any unease about suppressors.

1051
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: And he was talking about man that, uh you know,

1052
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: I was actually talking to new handful of game wardens.

1053
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one said what, but one of

1054
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: these game wardens was saying, I really rely on that

1055
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: crack of a rifle. He said, I'll be out in

1056
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: my tree stand and off in the distance, and he'd

1057
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: be like something about that ain't right, and he said

1058
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 1: I'll be down out of my tree heading over there

1059
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: and catching poachers. And so he's like with suppressors, I

1060
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: worry about losing that tool. And a game ward and said,

1061
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: I don't need to go into the field anymore. I

1062
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: have Facebook.

1063
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 3: So he gains more time in his tree stand though, yeah,

1064
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 3: he can Facebook in his trees.

1065
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: So this guy had made This guy had tex so

1066
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: this is not social media, but he had text messages people. Uh,

1067
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: he had text message to a guy, you know, like basically,

1068
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: what are you doing? I'm out here committing felonies?

1069
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, they're texted them but they knew it man.

1070
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: And another message she said he was out on a

1071
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: killing spree. They illegally sold the on the black market

1072
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: the United States and elsewhere. They ran their scheme from

1073
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: January twenty fifteenth through March twenty twenty one. They sold

1074
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: wings and tails.

1075
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 2: Does it say how they got busted? Was it like

1076
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 2: a sting? M?

1077
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: I can't remember now?

1078
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 3: What are people doing with the wings and tails?

1079
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: Just three hundred and fifty bucks a pop? They were

1080
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: making up to three hundred and fifty dollars. Oh my god,

1081
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: that's per bird.

1082
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 2: That sounds low, a little low, no knowing a like

1083
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 2: committing a felony and you're selling it for three point

1084
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: fifty with inflate.

1085
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you could probably, Yeah, they're probably. I mean

1086
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't I'd have to spend more time on it.

1087
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: But I mean if you got on the if you

1088
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: got on the right deer carcass or two, if if

1089
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: you sit down and shoot a thousand bucks or the eagles, Yeah,

1090
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: and all you're doing is like for processing. You're taking

1091
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: the tail, the wings off. It's dude, Uh, that strikes

1092
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: me as real easy money.

1093
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, he could probably go set a bunch of

1094
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 3: legholds around the carcass and have a thousand bucks where

1095
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 3: the eagles sitting there egles to check it, you know.

1096
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: I mean, and I don't want to say I don't

1097
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: when people taking the wrong way. But if that guy

1098
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: set up shop Southeast Alaska, Oh, he'd buy a private

1099
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: plane yep, on.

1100
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 2: A dumpster in southeast Alaska. He didn't even have to.

1101
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: So from April thirty, twenty twenty through March thirteenth, twenty one,

1102
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 1: that's a long time, okay, they sold or offered to

1103
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: sell the parts of whole birds, the parts or whole

1104
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 1: birds from two bald eagles and eleven golden eagles. One

1105
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: of these guys would travel from the state of Washington

1106
01:08:54,080 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: out to an Indian reservation in Montana to shoot in

1107
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: and around a reservation area.

1108
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, I think one of the guys lived

1109
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 2: on the reservation.

1110
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:13,440
Speaker 1: He did. In one instance, on March thirteenth, twenty twenty one,

1111
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: the two men quote returned to a previously killed deer

1112
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: lure in eagles. All right, So they'd killed deer lure

1113
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: in eagles facing up to eighteen years behind bars, one

1114
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: of them eighteen years and one of them facing up

1115
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: to fifteen years behind bars. Good surprise, that's it. Yeah,

1116
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: but you know what I meant. It would be a

1117
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: lot worse if they hadn't been delisted.

1118
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 2: Because oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh.

1119
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying? If they had done

1120
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 1: it in the seventies, if they had done in the seventies,

1121
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: it'd be So it's not a federal offense.

1122
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 2: It's probably multiple felonies. Right, It's probably felony to kill it,

1123
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,719
Speaker 2: and then felony to sell it, and then there's probably

1124
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 2: you know, if you're going international, there's probably thousands.

1125
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Are they in federal or not federal?

1126
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,919
Speaker 3: How many felonies? Seems like there's a lot of felonies,

1127
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 3: A lot of felonies. When I think of a felony,

1128
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 3: I think of a lot more time than that.

1129
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, where are they indicted? O? Man depends on a felony.

1130
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 4: A couple of them deer coming in felt like they're

1131
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 4: coming into sting.

1132
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: Seemed like yeah, like coming on and be like no

1133
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: it's federal. So they're in a federal It's it's a

1134
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: federal deal. You know why it's federal because it'd be

1135
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: Lazy Act, right, because it'd be federal anyways, because they're

1136
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: crossing the state lines to commit a crime automatical nation. Well,

1137
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: because of it, seems like you should be federal. Yeah,

1138
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: well it would be picked up as federal because when

1139
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,759
Speaker 1: you commit a state wildlife crime, when you cross state

1140
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: lines to break a state's wildlife law, it becomes federal.

1141
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: Like if you kidnap someone and drive them across if

1142
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: you were to kidnap someone in Texas and drive into Oklahoma,

1143
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: you're now that's a federal charge. It ceases to be

1144
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: state and goes federal. So because of the Lacey Act,

1145
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: they're moving wildlife parts across state lines and it became

1146
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: a federal US District court. One of them was a

1147
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 1: shooter and one of them was a shipper. One of

1148
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: them was from the Yeah, one of them lived on

1149
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 1: the Flathead Indian Reservation. Hmm.

1150
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 3: I wonder if they thought they'd get around it somehow

1151
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 3: by being on the reservation.

1152
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 1: I had to read more. If he's a tribal member,

1153
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 1: they might have thought they were covered by something and don't.

1154
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: I don't really know why they're not. Yeah, we'll do

1155
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,640
Speaker 1: a better job reporting on this next time we're out,

1156
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 1: next time we're out hog hunting.

1157
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't seen any other things come in your ears?

1158
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 5: Everyone there like the way. Yeah, and then they're all

1159
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:10,440
Speaker 5: they're all out left over there a couple hundred yards.

1160
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:16,719
Speaker 1: Recent news story about the schizophrenia, cat ownership and skirts

1161
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: of schizophrenia we recently covered a we found out. I've

1162
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,919
Speaker 1: been real interested in people dropping stuff into toilet vaults

1163
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: and then getting going in there and getting stuck in there,

1164
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: like National Forest Spots, fishing access site, magnet.

1165
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:34,839
Speaker 2: Oh, that's where the most have happened.

1166
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say to you, Chris.

1167
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, did you listen to the episode where

1168
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 1: we had the guys on who rescued someone from a

1169
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: vault toilet? And you're gonna say, well, no, not that one.

1170
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 2: I had not listened to. I don't do a lot

1171
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 2: of podcasting, So I got a fresh baby that might

1172
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 2: have preceded her though no.

1173
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:02,919
Speaker 1: It did so again, uh uh, there's a there's a

1174
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 1: high pro a case of international significance where someone got

1175
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: stuck in a vault toilet and got rescued. Then later

1176
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 1: a woman got stuck in a vault toilet trying to

1177
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 1: fetch her watch out of there, and they couldn't figure

1178
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: out how to get her out because they were trying

1179
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: to take her up through the toilet seat. Oh but

1180
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: one of the responding officers had listened to the podcast,

1181
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: so he knew. He's like, hey, I listened to a

1182
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: podcast about this. You can actually remove the pedestal and

1183
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 1: fish the person right out of the hole beneath the pedestal. Oh, yeah,

1184
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 1: saved the day. We've saved. I don't know how many liyes?

1185
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: Can I keep expecting presidential commendation? Dude, Metal of Freedom.

1186
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: Someday I'm gonna be down there at the State of

1187
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: the Union to dress and like Trump's gonna be like

1188
01:13:54,400 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: tonight we're honoring, going to be It's gonna be us

1189
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: about TURNI quits and how to get people out of

1190
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: vault toilets. So there's then there's like a rash of

1191
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: these vault toilet tragedies near tragedies. Uh, so we're going

1192
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: to close because oh, back to this, so we realize

1193
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: some I don't know who found this guy. There's a

1194
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: guy that sings the news. He takes news stories and

1195
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: to write songs so you don't have to read the news.

1196
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: You can just listen to his songs where he covers

1197
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: the news with piano accompaniments.

1198
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, piano news.

1199
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: Reads piano news. So he writes the song about the

1200
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,759
Speaker 1: news story, puts the news story up on social media

1201
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: on one screen, and the the other half is him

1202
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: performing his song about the news. So he did the

1203
01:14:54,800 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: news on this vault toilet issue. And he says it

1204
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,839
Speaker 1: starts with him saying if I dropped my watch into

1205
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: some public excretion, I say that's it for me. Dog Uh.

1206
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 1: And he has done one and we're gonna close with it.

1207
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 4: Uh.

1208
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: Our license on the very controversial ride On by Christopher

1209
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 1: Denny has expired, and KRINN rather than renewing our rather

1210
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: than forking over our few thousand bucks that it caused

1211
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: us to have Chris Denny's right on for a year,

1212
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna switch to only using music that our listeners

1213
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 1: write and perform.

1214
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 5: We've gotten a ton of submissions already.

1215
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: Chester the Midwester we use some dog dirt and dirt

1216
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 1: send one over.

1217
01:15:55,320 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 5: Dirt, and if you're not all musical, you could do

1218
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 5: like spoken word poetry too.

1219
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 2: The music is I do like I started listening to

1220
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 2: that day, Henry rollins, I take that back, everybody.

1221
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: We need the music, so for twenty so for twenty

1222
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 1: twenty four, we're only using listener sourced music to close

1223
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: the show. And we're not going to tell you who's

1224
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: doing it every time, but every time you'll find it

1225
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 1: the show liner notes and we're only telling you who's

1226
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: doing Knox, We're kicking the whole thing off. This is

1227
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: the first one right mention this. We commissioned it. We

1228
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 1: sent him, Hey, you like singing about the news, why

1229
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:38,600
Speaker 1: don't you sing about cats and schizophrenia? So he composed

1230
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 1: original music. If you don't like to read, you know though,

1231
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: you already heard the story, so we just talked about it.

1232
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 1: Let's just say you hadn't, or you skip that part here.

1233
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,879
Speaker 1: Now you can hear the news saying to you, oh.

1234
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 5: But he riffs off it, and you know Signamese cats

1235
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 5: are involved in this.

1236
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow, yeah, schizophrenia, Siamese cats. You see what

1237
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 1: this is going on? So, uh dig in, We're gonna

1238
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: go gut Krin's Hog.

1239
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,520
Speaker 5: And stick around for the chapter Oh.

1240
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 1: And after the song? Yeah, Oh, shoot man, how many

1241
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 1: people are we gonna lose because they're gonna hear the

1242
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: end of music and turn it off and not already

1243
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 1: told them about it.

1244
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, just stick around, you gotta stick around. The Hunter

1245
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 2: thing is gonna be good.

1246
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: Man. Do Read's Piano music, and then stay tuned for

1247
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: chapter seven of me Eater's American History, The Long Hunters

1248
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: seventeen sixty one to seventeen seventy five, and remind you

1249
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: what comes after seventeen seventy five, The Revolution seventeen seventy six. Yeah,

1250
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 1: So if you're wondering, like why those age brackets, you

1251
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: will find out when you listen that. Why what did

1252
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone and the boys who kind of deer? Why

1253
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: did their era end with the Revolution? You don't know.

1254
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 8: I have no Chris damn sure don't know what I

1255
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 8: found out about him today, But I'm not gonna tell

1256
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 8: because I don't know if his mom listens, Does she

1257
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 8: listen more than you, because if not, she's not going

1258
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 8: to hear it.

1259
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 2: I don't know if she knows what a podcast is.

1260
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: She's like, I didn't listen to that episode. Alright, stay

1261
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:30,759
Speaker 1: tuned for reads. What's it called? Reads?

1262
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 5: Pianos Reads?

1263
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 1: Piano news? Chapter seven, Long Hunters, Thank you guys, got some?

1264
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: He ain't got a twin thinks now hearing voices, this

1265
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: can't say to breathe? And who's that other guy in

1266
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:55,840
Speaker 1: my house watching me? Maybe I can't do ball?

1267
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 6: The last time I think I fought in North am

1268
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 6: I going in sade?

1269
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: This really?

1270
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:09,840
Speaker 4: Is this a fantasy?

1271
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: How come I bought that cat? Now there's me my

1272
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 1: hear cat owners saying, I think I'm lost my bad

1273
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,720
Speaker 1: Based the pony studies, I think they're probably right Saturdays.

1274
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 6: If I don't, If I don't, please, I'm gonna need

1275
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 6: some pett and balls.

1276
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 3: It's their paint.

1277
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 7: Forty five cat came on, thinking, bye, are you okay?

1278
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: The straight jacket's only come in light? Chapter seven? Gearing up.

1279
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,759
Speaker 1: Becoming a successful long hunter required more than steely nerves,

1280
01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 1: the hunger for adventure, and an intimate knowledge of the land, escape,

1281
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 1: and wildlife of the first Far West. Without the right tools,

1282
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:14,719
Speaker 1: you were not gonna last long. In seventeen sixty nine,

1283
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: a large party of long hunters, some twenty or more,

1284
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: assembled in the frontier settlements along the New River in

1285
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 1: western Virginia. The men had plans to hunt the Cumberland

1286
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: River drainage on the far side of the Cumberland Gap.

1287
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 1: You'll recognize some of their names, Casper Mansker, the Bledsoe brothers,

1288
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: and John Baker. Two years earlier, Baker had been on

1289
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 1: that ill fated trip to New Orleans where his party

1290
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: boded their hides down the Mississippi, sold them off, and

1291
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 1: got robbed of their cash on the way home. Despite

1292
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: the obvious risks, the call of opportunity prevailed. Setting out

1293
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: in June, this newly assembled party took the Warriors Path

1294
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 1: across the headwaters of the Tennis River, moving through the

1295
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap to the Cumberland River. They then traveled downstream

1296
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 1: to where Meadow Creek flowed in. That's where they'd set

1297
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 1: up their station camp in a spot known as Price's Meadow.

1298
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 1: If you're looking for that place today, it's on the

1299
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,479
Speaker 1: south side of the Cumberland River. You can just look

1300
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:25,560
Speaker 1: for a historical marker near Rubbing Bucks Barbecue.

1301
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 9: The party broke up into groups of three or four hunters,

1302
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 9: and they got after it. Every five weeks, the groups

1303
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 9: planned to return to their station camp with their harvests

1304
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 9: of hides loaded on their horses. The hunt was successful.

1305
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 9: Within a few months, the party hit amassed some five

1306
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 9: hundred white tailed deerskins, but one day a group of

1307
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 9: twenty five Cherokees discovered their camp while the men were

1308
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 9: out hunting. The cherokees stole the long hunter's cash and

1309
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 9: some of their gunpowder. They also took off with some clothing,

1310
01:21:58,600 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 9: pots and kettles.

1311
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 1: With what little gunpowder the long hunters had left, continuing

1312
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: to hunt would have been feudle, so Isaac bledsoel rowed

1313
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 1: back to the settlements with some of the men to resupply.

1314
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,759
Speaker 1: Upon their return, the hunt resumed. The men hunted until

1315
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 1: April of seventeen seventy, when half the party hauled a

1316
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: pack train of deerskins and furs back east.

1317
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 9: Casper Mansker and the remainder of the long hunters stayed behind.

1318
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 9: They decided to build two boats and two trapping canoes,

1319
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 9: which would have been made from bark sown over a

1320
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 9: frame of lashed saplings. They also made use of a

1321
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 9: third boat that had been abandoned on site, perhaps by

1322
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:49,280
Speaker 9: French hunters or traders. The hunters loaded up their hides

1323
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:51,880
Speaker 9: and meet and gear, and started to head down river

1324
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 9: to the colonial settlement of Natchez on the Mississippi. This

1325
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 9: was an incredible journey of hundreds of river miles. The

1326
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 9: men would have canoed down the Cumberland River to the Ohio,

1327
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,680
Speaker 9: down the Ohio to the Mississippi, and down the Mississippi

1328
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 9: to Natchez. At French Lick, the present day site of Nashville, Tennessee,

1329
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 9: they saw what was, by all accounts, the largest number

1330
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 9: of buffalo and wild game they had ever encountered in

1331
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,919
Speaker 9: any one place. After killing a few of the animals

1332
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 9: and using their hides to cover their open boats, they

1333
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,680
Speaker 9: continued downriver until they reached the mouth of the Cumberland.

1334
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: At this point, the men were dealing with some spoilage

1335
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 1: in the bear meat that they'd harvested back in the

1336
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 1: Cumberland River country, not surprising given the length of their

1337
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: journey and this being the warmer months of the year,

1338
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 1: so they decided to convert some of the bear meat

1339
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 1: into bear greece. To do this, they would have discarded

1340
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 1: the lean red meat and retained just the fat. They

1341
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 1: then simmer the fat in kettles to separate the oil

1342
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: or grease from the solids. The valuable grease would have

1343
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: likely been sewn into sacks made of deer, elk, or

1344
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 1: buffalo hide. During this process of rendering bear grease, they

1345
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 1: get robbed again. A war party at Chickasaws makes off

1346
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,920
Speaker 1: with their guns and ammunition. At this point, you'd be

1347
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 1: justified in assuming that this long hunting party would come

1348
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 1: to an end. I mean enough bad luck is enough, right,

1349
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 1: But it does not come to an end. The Chickasaws

1350
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: didn't take the white men's oils or furs, so the

1351
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: hunters continue downstream, and they eventually are able to sell

1352
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 1: their skins and bear grease in Natches. After the sale,

1353
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:45,919
Speaker 1: some of the men commence their journey homeward, but Casper

1354
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 1: Mansker stays a while in Natches, likely because he seems

1355
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: to have gotten sick. Upon recovering, he too sets out

1356
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: for home, traveling upriver in a boat with John Baker.

1357
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 1: The two men events actually join up with a party

1358
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:04,599
Speaker 1: of horse traders who are heading over land to Georgia.

1359
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: Mansker and Baker then break off from the horse traders

1360
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:13,679
Speaker 1: and cut north through East Tennessee and then finally onto

1361
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: the New River, likely arriving in late summer or early

1362
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:23,519
Speaker 1: autumn after more than a year away from home. Now

1363
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: that is what you would call a long hunt.

1364
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 9: There's a lot to take in about that story. One

1365
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 9: of the main things that might have surprised you was

1366
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 9: the way the Native American hunters took some supplies from

1367
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 9: the hunting party that they saw as trespassers, but they

1368
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 9: didn't take everything from them. In the following chapter, we'll

1369
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 9: be talking about why something like that might happen. But

1370
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 9: what we're gonna dive into here is the critical nature

1371
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 9: of those supplies and equipment used by the long hunters,

1372
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 9: from guns and ammunition to knives and hatchets. We're going

1373
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 9: to cover the gear that allowed them to do what

1374
01:25:59,600 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 9: they did.

1375
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,640
Speaker 1: We'll begin with one of the most iconic pieces of

1376
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:08,960
Speaker 1: the long hunter's kit, the Kentucky Rifle, also known as

1377
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,680
Speaker 1: the Kentucky Long Rifle. Not only is it central to

1378
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 1: their adventures, it remains one of the most legendary guns

1379
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 1: in American history. The rifles weren't just renowned for their

1380
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 1: function and aesthetic. These were the first uniquely American firearms.

1381
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,839
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into some finer details about these guns,

1382
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:33,799
Speaker 1: but let's first cover the very basics the long hunters

1383
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: hunted with flintlock muzzleloading rifles. We'll get to the flintlock

1384
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 1: part in a few minutes, but let's first look at

1385
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: what specifically a muzzleloader is by talking about what it

1386
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 1: is not. If you look at your standard rifle or

1387
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:52,640
Speaker 1: shotgun that you're gonna use for this year's deer or

1388
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 1: duck season, you'll see that the shell is loaded into

1389
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:59,600
Speaker 1: the breach of the gun, meaning it's loaded into the

1390
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: end of the barrel that you're standing at, not the

1391
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: end where the bullet comes out. Well, that's the defining

1392
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 1: feature of a muzzleloader. A muzzle loader is loaded from

1393
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: the muzzle end or the front opening of the barrel,

1394
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: and these guns weren't loaded with complete cartridges that combined

1395
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 1: primer gunpowder and a lead projectile in a brass casing. Instead,

1396
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 1: the load, or shell as we call it, was assembled

1397
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 1: by the hunter inside the barrel. First, a hunter would

1398
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:38,720
Speaker 1: pour a charge of loose gunpowder down the barrel. They

1399
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,759
Speaker 1: could measure it out or just take a good guess

1400
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 1: and free pour it. Then they'd take the bullet, which

1401
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 1: was a simple lead ball, and wrap it in a patch,

1402
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 1: a greased piece of fabric or thin leather that cradled

1403
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 1: the ball like how a Hershey's kiss is cradled in

1404
01:27:56,479 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 1: its wrapping of aluminum foil. That package of ball and

1405
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: patch would be shoved down the barrel with a ramrod.

1406
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 1: It was a pretty tight fit. Now, it's important to

1407
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 1: keep in mind that all Kentucky long rifles were muzzleloaders,

1408
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 1: but not all muzzleloaders were Kentucky long rifles. And it's

1409
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 1: also important to note that the long hunters journeying into

1410
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 1: Kentucky wouldn't have said they were carrying Kentucky long rifles.

1411
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 1: That name didn't take hold until later in the seventeen eighties,

1412
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: and in fact it was something of a misnomer then,

1413
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: as the rifles would be more accurately associated with Pennsylvania,

1414
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 1: where they took on their defining characteristics. You'll actually see

1415
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 1: them referred to as Pennsylvania rifles here and there in

1416
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:49,719
Speaker 1: the historical record.

1417
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:54,680
Speaker 9: So this can all be a bit confusing whether you

1418
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:58,959
Speaker 9: call them Kentucky rifles or Pennsylvania rifles. These iconic weapons

1419
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 9: derived from a pres that assessor weapon that arrived in

1420
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:06,919
Speaker 9: North America with distinctly European roots. That early gun, the Jaeger,

1421
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:11,480
Speaker 9: was shaped by a combination of two key design features.

1422
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 9: One was German and it's called rifling. Now, we mentioned

1423
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 9: this word a minute ago, and it's important, as rifling

1424
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 9: is where the word rifle comes from. Rifling refers to

1425
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 9: the spiral grooves that are cut into the inside or

1426
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 9: bore of a rifle's barrel. Historians disagree on how this

1427
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 9: innovation came to be, but regardless, rifling is what gives

1428
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:35,639
Speaker 9: a slug or projectile it's spin.

1429
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:38,680
Speaker 1: Just like a good spiral pass with a football.

1430
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:42,599
Speaker 9: A spinning projectile is stable in flight and thus much

1431
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 9: more accurate. We just explained how a musloading rifle is

1432
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 9: loaded with the fully assembled load of powder, patch and

1433
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 9: ball crammed down the end of the barrel. Well, the

1434
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:56,040
Speaker 9: only thing left to do in order to make that

1435
01:29:56,120 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 9: gun go boom is somehow ignite the gunpowder. That's where

1436
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:04,960
Speaker 9: the term flintlock comes into play. The flintlock ignition system

1437
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 9: was a design tradition that came from the French, or

1438
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:10,480
Speaker 9: rather it exploded out of Paris.

1439
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:11,480
Speaker 2: With much enthusiasm.

1440
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:16,720
Speaker 9: This ignition system replaced earlier cruder mechanisms designed for the

1441
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 9: same purpose. The flintlock system featured a spring loaded hammer

1442
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:23,719
Speaker 9: that was fitted with a small chunk of flint held

1443
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 9: in place by a clamp. Pull the rifle's trigger, and

1444
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 9: the hammer crashed down on a hinged piece of steel

1445
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 9: that flung open to reveal a small pan of gunpowder.

1446
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 9: In a synchronized bit of wonderment, the flint hitting the

1447
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 9: steel created a flash of sparks that landed right into

1448
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:46,759
Speaker 9: the now exposed pan of powder, igniting it. The flames

1449
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 9: from this ignition would jump through a touch hole in

1450
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 9: the side of the barrel and ignite the much bigger

1451
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 9: load of gunpowder. Within bang, a rather boom out comes

1452
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:02,799
Speaker 9: the lead ball spin smooth and fast thanks to the rifling.

1453
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,879
Speaker 9: As an aside, when you hear somebody say a flash

1454
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 9: in the pan to describe something short lived or less

1455
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:13,679
Speaker 9: than promised, that's where the same comes from, a little

1456
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 9: blast of powder that failed to ignite the main charge.

1457
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:24,560
Speaker 1: When German gunsmiths, the pioneers of rifling, adopted the French flintlock,

1458
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 1: the result was this rifle known as a yagger. Now,

1459
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 1: for you connoisseurs of yagermeister, that's German for hunter. So

1460
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 1: how do we get a uniquely American gun. From this

1461
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 1: European lineage, well Yaggers came to North America in the

1462
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds with the German immigrants who would settle in

1463
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: the Lancaster Valley of Pennsylvania. Lancaster became the largest western

1464
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 1: town in Colonial America, and as it grew and as

1465
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:58,280
Speaker 1: folks migrated from there down through the Shanandoah Valley, those

1466
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 1: gunsmithing traditions spread. Now, keep in mind these guns. Back then,

1467
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 1: these muzzleloaders were entirely handmade. Every spring and screw and

1468
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:13,800
Speaker 1: piece of metal, no matter how small, was built by

1469
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:18,719
Speaker 1: the hands of an individual gunsmith. There are an infinite

1470
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 1: number of little details we could get into about this process,

1471
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 1: but here's just one. The barrel started out as flat

1472
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 1: pieces of metal, basically long flat bars that were actually

1473
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:34,559
Speaker 1: hammered into cylinders. The hole in the middle of one

1474
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:38,679
Speaker 1: of these cylinders would be smoothed, polished, and rifled. Will

1475
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 1: explain that in a minute too, with nothing but crude

1476
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 1: hand tools. The making of these rifles was an intricate

1477
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:52,320
Speaker 1: expression of the finest craftsmanship, and these designs evolved not

1478
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:54,240
Speaker 1: in a board room or in the R and D

1479
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 1: lab of some company, but in the hands of individual

1480
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:03,800
Speaker 1: gunsmiths working on individuals guns informed by the feedback of

1481
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:05,600
Speaker 1: individual customers.

1482
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,960
Speaker 9: Two further innovations took place that would turn the Jaeger

1483
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:12,960
Speaker 9: into the Kentucky rifle, and they both happened in the

1484
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 9: New World. One was the lengthening of the barrel, which

1485
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 9: would typically be forty to forty eight inches long. The

1486
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 9: iconic long barrel gave the charge of powder more time

1487
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 9: to full ignite, increasing the SHOT's velocity, and the longer

1488
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:32,480
Speaker 9: trajectory out of the barrel also increased accuracy by stabilizing

1489
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 9: the projectile's path. The second innovation that defined the Kentucky

1490
01:33:37,439 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 9: rifle was a shrinking of the bore size, which meant

1491
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 9: the gun fired a smaller projectile. European guns at the

1492
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 9: time traditionally shot larger projectiles up to seventy five caliber

1493
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,719
Speaker 9: or more, meaning a sphere of lead about three quarters

1494
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:57,320
Speaker 9: of an inch wide. For a long hunter in particular,

1495
01:33:57,560 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 9: there was an obvious advantage to the smaller It helped

1496
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,599
Speaker 9: reduce the amount of powder and lead they needed to

1497
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 9: carry with them into the back country.

1498
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:19,759
Speaker 1: Back in those days, they weren't talking in the same

1499
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:24,800
Speaker 1: caliber nomenclatures used today. Their common unit of measurement for

1500
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:29,400
Speaker 1: bore diameter was how many balls for a particular rifle

1501
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:32,880
Speaker 1: could be produced from a single pound of lead, which

1502
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 1: would translate roughly to how many deer could be killed

1503
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 1: with a single pound of lead. Think of a modern

1504
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:42,839
Speaker 1: day conversation about fuel economy and cars. Someone might say

1505
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 1: my car gets twenty five miles to the gallon of gas. Well,

1506
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 1: a long hunter might note that his gun got forty

1507
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:54,560
Speaker 1: eight shots to the pound of lead. One source described

1508
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania rifles in general as firing quote a ball no

1509
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:03,000
Speaker 1: larger than thirty six to the pound, which would be

1510
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:07,160
Speaker 1: a fifty three caliber meaning a bore diameter of zero

1511
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:11,680
Speaker 1: point five to three inches, so just barely over a

1512
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 1: half inch wide. For comparison's sake, a roughly forty five

1513
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:20,160
Speaker 1: caliber rifle, which was preferred by most long hunters, would

1514
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:24,479
Speaker 1: get about forty to forty eight balls per pound of lead.

1515
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: I'll point out that this ball's per pound of lead

1516
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 1: measurement is actually where our contemporary shotgun gauge system that

1517
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: we use today comes from. When you hear a shotgun

1518
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 1: described as a twelve gage or twenty gauge that's a

1519
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 1: reference to how many lead balls of a particular diameter

1520
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: you can make out of a pound of lead. Meaning,

1521
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:51,680
Speaker 1: if you cast twelve spherical lead balls with the diameter

1522
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:55,720
Speaker 1: matching the diameter of the barrel of your twelve gage shotgun,

1523
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 1: they would add up to one pound. Likewise, if you

1524
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:04,280
Speaker 1: divide a single pound of lead into twenty equal spheres,

1525
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:08,719
Speaker 1: those spheres would be the bore diameter of your twenty

1526
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:09,720
Speaker 1: gage shotgun.

1527
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:14,160
Speaker 9: The long hunters in their contemporaries thought of rifles and

1528
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:18,080
Speaker 9: ammunition in this way balls per pound, because they weren't

1529
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:21,360
Speaker 9: carrying the set quantity of round balls or bullets into

1530
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:25,280
Speaker 9: the back country. They were casting these projectiles themselves out

1531
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 9: of bars of lead. This was the most efficient means

1532
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 9: of transporting all of the ammunition they'd need in the

1533
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 9: first far West. They hauled their lead in bars that

1534
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:38,719
Speaker 9: weighed several pounds each. Then to form bullets, they would

1535
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 9: cast that lead into round projectiles over a campfire by

1536
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:46,680
Speaker 9: pouring molten lead into a cast. Achieving some level of

1537
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 9: consistency was important. Bullets needed to be smooth and relatively

1538
01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:55,440
Speaker 9: clean of creases, seams, and pitting. We can only imagine

1539
01:36:55,439 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 9: that casting bullets must have been a frequent activity at

1540
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 9: the station camps where the long hunters deposited their skins

1541
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 9: and stored their supplies. Stores of lead and melting ladles

1542
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 9: which they'd used to melt and pour their lead were

1543
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:12,440
Speaker 9: communal gear that was left at camp, but each individual

1544
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 9: hunter would have had a bullet cast that matched his

1545
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 9: own rifle. Keep in mind these weapons were all handmade

1546
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 9: by individual gunsmiths, and each had their own unique irregularities

1547
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:25,280
Speaker 9: and specifications.

1548
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,640
Speaker 1: Another chore required to keep their guns running would have

1549
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:33,400
Speaker 1: been napping or shaping flint from fist sized pieces of

1550
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 1: suitable rock chirt or obsidian, the same types of rock

1551
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 1: that Native Americans used to make arrowheads. This flint, when

1552
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 1: struck against steel, was what produced the spark. Although we

1553
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,719
Speaker 1: don't have any sort of detailed insight on this point

1554
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 1: through lime and draper or our other sources, we can

1555
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 1: only imagine that the long hunters would keep in camp

1556
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:58,599
Speaker 1: a store of chirt or other toolstone that they could

1557
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 1: shape into flints if they did run out. This was

1558
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 1: one supply that would have been relatively easy for them

1559
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 1: to source out in the field.

1560
01:38:09,160 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 9: Gunpowder with something else long hunters might have known how

1561
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:15,040
Speaker 9: to produce on their own. In a pinch, it could

1562
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:19,880
Speaker 9: be made from a concoction of batguano, sulfur, wood, ash,

1563
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:23,680
Speaker 9: and the dowsing of their own urine, But all available

1564
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 9: evidence suggests they simply purchased powder back in the settlements.

1565
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 9: Outside of the most dire circumstances, high quality gunpowder imported

1566
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 9: from Great Britain and her other colonies was readily available,

1567
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,920
Speaker 9: and it was cheap, so cheap that domestic manufacture of

1568
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 9: gunpowder in the colonies that became the United States was

1569
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:47,879
Speaker 9: not economically viable. There were exceptions in periods when trade

1570
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 9: was interrupted or when Great Britain was in a state

1571
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:54,599
Speaker 9: of war and restricted the supply of gunpowder going outside

1572
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 9: of its borders, but generally, gunpowder in the colonies came

1573
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:03,479
Speaker 9: from overseas and it was abundant. The counts frequently mentioned

1574
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:06,479
Speaker 9: that the long hunters set out with large supplies of

1575
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:09,920
Speaker 9: lead and powder. They'd transport this powder and store it

1576
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 9: in their station camps and larger containers, probably small kegs,

1577
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 9: but individual hunters would carry their powder in the field

1578
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:21,800
Speaker 9: in a powder horn, another essential piece of gear made

1579
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 9: from the horn of a cow or buffalo. It would

1580
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 9: be fitted with a stopper at the pointy end and

1581
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 9: used to pour a charge of powder down the muzzle

1582
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:30,759
Speaker 9: of the gun.

1583
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:35,320
Speaker 1: As we saw at the top of this chapter, those supplies,

1584
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:39,400
Speaker 1: along with the rifles themselves, were sometimes seized by Native

1585
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 1: Americans when they ran into parties of white men hunting

1586
01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:46,520
Speaker 1: on their land. The long hunter's rifles made an attractive

1587
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 1: prize because they were way better than the type of

1588
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:53,320
Speaker 1: guns the Soul called trade guns that were in wide

1589
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:57,840
Speaker 1: circulation among Native people. These trade guns were smooth bore

1590
01:39:57,960 --> 01:40:01,640
Speaker 1: guns or muskets that were produced use relatively cheaply in

1591
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 1: Europe and were frequently traded with the Native Americans by

1592
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 1: the colonial deer skin traders in exchange for deer hides.

1593
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:13,240
Speaker 1: Smooth bore guns had smooth bores, so none of the

1594
01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 1: rifling or spiraling grooves that gave the Kentucky rifle its

1595
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:23,120
Speaker 1: accuracy by forcing bullets to spin as they exited the barrel.

1596
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 1: But smooth bore guns could be loaded more quickly, and

1597
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:31,559
Speaker 1: again could be produced more cheaply. You could outfit an

1598
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 1: army with smooth bore guns for less money, so they

1599
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:38,640
Speaker 1: were around. But when Native Americans ran into parties of

1600
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:42,040
Speaker 1: long hunters on their traditional hunting grounds, they would often

1601
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: take the opportunity to, let's say, exchange those smooth boar

1602
01:40:47,080 --> 01:40:51,559
Speaker 1: guns for the long hunter's Kentucky rifles. We'll be hearing

1603
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 1: more about this interesting dynamic of theft and trade in

1604
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:58,799
Speaker 1: the following chapter. There's a lot more to say.

1605
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:02,519
Speaker 9: To get back to the elements that comprise the long

1606
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 9: hunter's kit. Other than their rifles and necessary paraphernalia, the

1607
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:10,640
Speaker 9: cutting tools carried by long hunters with the most essential

1608
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 9: pieces of gear they had. Many would have carried what

1609
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:17,840
Speaker 9: was then called a clasp or folder knife, what we

1610
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 9: would today just call a pocket knife or a jackknife.

1611
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 9: They also carried larger fixed blade knives, commonly described in

1612
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:30,639
Speaker 9: the historic record as butcher knives or sometimes scalping knives,

1613
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:33,760
Speaker 9: six to ten inches long. They were used for all

1614
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 9: manner of purposes, eating, scanning, fighting, whittling, carving, and yes,

1615
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 9: at times, removing human scalps. Most blades were imported from Europe,

1616
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:49,400
Speaker 9: typically without handles, the owner would fashion and attach their own.

1617
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:53,640
Speaker 9: Some surviving examples from this period have handles made from

1618
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 9: deer antlers. These would have been in ready supply given

1619
01:41:57,320 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 9: the occupation of the long hunters, and if you hear

1620
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:03,559
Speaker 9: of a stag handle knife, that's what they were talking about.

1621
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:04,559
Speaker 1: The antler handle.

1622
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:08,800
Speaker 9: Modern blade steels are much stronger than what they had

1623
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 9: around then, and our knives hold a sharper edge than

1624
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 9: could be expected of the blades carried by long hunters.

1625
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:18,160
Speaker 9: This meant they would frequently need to sharpen their knives,

1626
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:22,519
Speaker 9: quite likely with stones found nearby. A smooth and wet

1627
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,639
Speaker 9: river cobble would have been an adequate tool to sharpen

1628
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 9: the soft steel that was in use back then.

1629
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:33,320
Speaker 1: As ubiquitous as these knives were, a small axe was

1630
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:36,840
Speaker 1: just as critical to the long hunter's kit. Some folks

1631
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:42,280
Speaker 1: might use the words hatchets, belt axes, and tomahawks interchangeably today,

1632
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:47,120
Speaker 1: but to the long hunters there were key distinctions. Long

1633
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 1: hunters like Boone would have carried a belt axe. These

1634
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:52,639
Speaker 1: were hung from the belt or carried on a shoulder

1635
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:56,360
Speaker 1: strap and secured beneath the belt. They were smaller than

1636
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 1: what you might be picturing, maybe twelve inches or so

1637
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:02,680
Speaker 1: overall and weighing less than a pound. The head of

1638
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:07,000
Speaker 1: the axe had a squarish appearance. The pole the end

1639
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:11,480
Speaker 1: opposite the bit or cutting surface was flat and rectangular,

1640
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,120
Speaker 1: and could be used as a hammer for any number

1641
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:17,680
Speaker 1: of tasks. The eye, or the opening in which the

1642
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:22,400
Speaker 1: handle was seated, was a tapered, oblong shape. As they

1643
01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 1: would with a knife. The owner of a belt axe

1644
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:28,559
Speaker 1: would commonly need to haft it or put a handle

1645
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 1: on it themselves.

1646
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:34,759
Speaker 9: These belt axes were different from a round poled, round

1647
01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 9: eyed trade axe that sleek distinctive profile we would most

1648
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:42,000
Speaker 9: commonly call it tomahawk, and from the long axes these

1649
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:44,600
Speaker 9: men would have carried on their horses for use in

1650
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 9: shelter building or other big projects. We can certainly imagine

1651
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:52,639
Speaker 9: that when Casper Mansker and its contingent decided to build

1652
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:56,360
Speaker 9: canoes for that long ride down river to Natchez, they

1653
01:43:56,360 --> 01:43:59,160
Speaker 9: would have used belt axes to pill away the sheaves

1654
01:43:59,160 --> 01:44:02,680
Speaker 9: of elmbark used for the hulls of the boats, for

1655
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:06,799
Speaker 9: butchering bison and elk, setting traps, shaping and pounding stakes

1656
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 9: for shelter, and any number of other tasks in which

1657
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:13,080
Speaker 9: long hunters had to reshape some part of their environment

1658
01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:17,760
Speaker 9: to better suit their needs. The belt axe was indispensable.

1659
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 1: When it came to equipment. Long hunters needed practical, utilitarian

1660
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:26,920
Speaker 1: items that served multiple purposes and that they could repair themselves.

1661
01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:30,799
Speaker 1: They had to shoe horses, do leather work, and build

1662
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:35,520
Speaker 1: all manner of items necessary to the hunt, such as canoes, shelters,

1663
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:39,559
Speaker 1: and fur and hide handling equipment like fleshing beams and

1664
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 1: stretching boards. Steel traps cost six to eight dollars a

1665
01:44:43,960 --> 01:44:47,080
Speaker 1: piece back then, making them one of the most significant

1666
01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 1: costs of a long hunt. Tuning and repairing traps required

1667
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:54,559
Speaker 1: the skill set of a blacksmith, as they often needed

1668
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:59,599
Speaker 1: to fabricate trap parts, including pans and triggers. Gunsmithing skills

1669
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:03,639
Speaker 1: were ass essential. Boon and likely other long hunters could

1670
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:08,719
Speaker 1: skillfully restock a rifle, repair and replace parts, nap flints

1671
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:12,400
Speaker 1: for the ignition system, and generally troubles you any issues

1672
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 1: that arolls with a rifle while on the hunt. Among

1673
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 1: the tools they would bring were files, bellows to heat

1674
01:45:19,040 --> 01:45:22,080
Speaker 1: up the fire for metal working purposes, and what they

1675
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: called a hand vice.

1676
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 9: Also known as a gunsmith's vice or a clockmaker's device.

1677
01:45:29,320 --> 01:45:32,479
Speaker 9: A hand vice was used to hold small objects being

1678
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 9: worked on.

1679
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:34,760
Speaker 1: Picture a large.

1680
01:45:34,479 --> 01:45:38,000
Speaker 9: Pair of tweezers with wider jaws, or the type of

1681
01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:41,840
Speaker 9: pliers you'd use for putting seams in sheet metal. The

1682
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 9: jaws were spring loaded and tightened with a wing nut

1683
01:45:45,040 --> 01:45:49,000
Speaker 9: and screw. Long hunters also traveled with what's called a

1684
01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:53,160
Speaker 9: screw plate, a plate of iron with different sized threadholes

1685
01:45:53,240 --> 01:45:56,360
Speaker 9: cut into it, forcing a piece of metal through the

1686
01:45:56,439 --> 01:46:00,000
Speaker 9: holes that would impart an external thread to a screw's surface.

1687
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:04,240
Speaker 9: If you've done some basic machining, you're probably familiar with

1688
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:06,840
Speaker 9: what it looks like to tap a hole using a

1689
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 9: cutting implement to create or clean up internal threads. This

1690
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 9: is a bit like the inverse of that process, and

1691
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:16,840
Speaker 9: they would have used it to fashion replacement hardware for

1692
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 9: their rifles or traps. It's remarkable to consider that the

1693
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 9: long hunters and other travelers in the back country were

1694
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:28,320
Speaker 9: actually fabricating metal parts. Today you might bring along a

1695
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:31,479
Speaker 9: multi tool on a long back country hunt. These guys

1696
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 9: were bringing along complete miniature workshops alls.

1697
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,800
Speaker 1: Which were tools used to punch holes in leather, where

1698
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:43,560
Speaker 1: another vital piece of equipment often mentioned in the sources.

1699
01:46:44,240 --> 01:46:47,640
Speaker 1: These would sometimes fold out from the backside of a

1700
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:52,080
Speaker 1: clasp knife. The reason that all was so indispensable is

1701
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:56,720
Speaker 1: quite simple. In addition to being metal workers, occasional gunsmiths

1702
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:01,639
Speaker 1: and woodworkers. The long hunters were also hobblers, and that's

1703
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:04,200
Speaker 1: because one item that would have been in constant need

1704
01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:08,760
Speaker 1: of repair or replacement was their footwear, the moccasins they

1705
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:12,760
Speaker 1: fashioned from elk and buffalo hides. You'll recall that these

1706
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,720
Speaker 1: elk and buffalo hides were thicker and heavier than the

1707
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:20,160
Speaker 1: deer skins that were the long hunter's primary target. These

1708
01:47:20,200 --> 01:47:24,200
Speaker 1: thicker skins made for more durable footwear, but they still

1709
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:28,720
Speaker 1: required constant maintenance. A pair of moccasins might only take

1710
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:32,440
Speaker 1: a long hunter a few hours to make, but repairing

1711
01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:37,400
Speaker 1: them was probably a task that required near daily attention.

1712
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,360
Speaker 1: We do know that anyone spending time outdoors in this

1713
01:47:41,479 --> 01:47:45,759
Speaker 1: time was very much aware of the risks of getting cold.

1714
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:50,120
Speaker 1: One source describes hunters in the late seventeen hundreds as

1715
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:56,480
Speaker 1: apprehensive of rheumatism, a term then used to describe rheumatoid arthritis.

1716
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:01,240
Speaker 1: They blamed rheumatism on cold feet and slept in their

1717
01:48:01,280 --> 01:48:04,720
Speaker 1: half faced shelters with their feet to the fire in

1718
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:08,800
Speaker 1: hopes of warming them and drying out their moccasins. It's

1719
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:12,040
Speaker 1: probably safe to assume that many of them had circulation

1720
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:18,840
Speaker 1: issues and numbness from wearing wet moccasins year round, but

1721
01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:23,600
Speaker 1: every mile in wet moccasins and every cold night was

1722
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 1: endured with a single objective in mind.

1723
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 9: Henry Skaggs, Daniel Boone, Casper Mansker and their companions weren't

1724
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:37,160
Speaker 9: simply equipping themselves to survive the First Far West, although

1725
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:40,479
Speaker 9: that in and of itself was not an easy task.

1726
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:44,920
Speaker 9: Their tools were all a means to an end. They

1727
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:49,200
Speaker 9: had a very specific, labor intensive purpose to their travels,

1728
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:52,759
Speaker 9: producing deer skins in large volume for the commercial market.

1729
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:56,559
Speaker 9: But of course they were not the only hunters on

1730
01:48:56,600 --> 01:49:07,720
Speaker 9: the landscape of the First Far West.