Speaker 1: Oh, please be advised, this story contains adult content and
Speaker 1: graphic language. That woman changed his world out He's an
Speaker 1: adult and went along with it. But that world changed
Speaker 1: from when they drove off in that truck. That Dan
Speaker 1: I would hear again from after that was not the
Speaker 1: same day, and I knew. Welcome to Sleuth, I'm Linda Sawyer.
Speaker 1: On this episode, we welcome ordained Minister Daniel hulk Yard,
Speaker 1: who tells us he's a longtime adviser to Daniel Wozniak.
Speaker 1: For many years, Daniel Wozniak work for Daniel Hulkyard's appraisal
Speaker 1: business so daniwasnia could make enough money to date Emily
Speaker 1: hulk Yard, the pastor's stepdaughter. Daniel Halkyard recounts to Sleuth
Speaker 1: many fond memories of his time when he directed Dan
Speaker 1: Wasniak as the lead in many local community theater musicals
Speaker 1: during his youth. To this day, Daniel Hulkyard refers to
Speaker 1: Daniel Waznik as his beloved son he shares with us. However,
Speaker 1: the one lasting painful memory he witnessed as Daniel Wasniak
Speaker 1: loaded his truck with furniture the hulk Yards had just
Speaker 1: donated to Daniel and his new girlfriend Rachel Buffett. As
Speaker 1: Daniel Hulkyard tells us, he watched as the boy he
Speaker 1: came to love as his son jumped in his truck
Speaker 1: heading off for his new life, a life Daniel Wozniak
Speaker 1: was about to share with his future fiance Rachel Buffett
Speaker 1: by his side. And we'd like to welcome you now,
Speaker 1: Daniel Holkyard. It's Linda Sawyer from Sleuth. How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing very well, Thank you, and we're so happy
Speaker 1: to have you and we look forward to your insights
Speaker 1: on this case. We know that you at some point
Speaker 1: had a pretty close relationship with Daniel Wozniak, and as
Speaker 1: well you got to know Rachel Buffett and her mother
Speaker 1: Mary Anne, so right from the beginning, How did you
Speaker 1: first meet Daniel Wozniak. I met Dan It was early
Speaker 1: two thousand three, two three. I was directing for a
Speaker 1: company called a Children's Theater, Orange County and Daniel audition
Speaker 1: and he was very, very likable, very I just was
Speaker 1: very impressed with him watching him perform, and I was
Speaker 1: watching his people skills and I really enjoyed head and
Speaker 1: over the time he worked on the show and he
Speaker 1: played Von Captain von Trapp, and everybody loved him and
Speaker 1: just the kids adored him, and he seemed to have
Speaker 1: a gentle persona about him, and uh so I invited
Speaker 1: him become the work for me and my appraisal company
Speaker 1: would shoot photography, shoot pictures of houses and things like
Speaker 1: that for me. And the needest handwriting. The need is
Speaker 1: work very thorough and very easy going. Love humor, and
Speaker 1: uh that's how I teach us with humor. So we
Speaker 1: got along very well, and that's how we began, you know,
Speaker 1: That's how we begin our relationship. And were was he
Speaker 1: involved also in your family life? Because it is my
Speaker 1: understanding that Emily, your stepdaughter, also had a lot of
Speaker 1: experience with him and had a friendship with him. They
Speaker 1: had a friendship with him. And I don't talk much
Speaker 1: about the family because I kind of keep that personal.
Speaker 1: That's yet, but I can tell you that much everybody
Speaker 1: knew that they dated. And I guess I'm just referring
Speaker 1: to that because obviously you thought well of him enough
Speaker 1: so that if he was in your stepdaughter's life, it
Speaker 1: was something that you approved of. The Daniel I knew
Speaker 1: exactly had it been the Daniel that we would later
Speaker 1: become No, No, there would be no way. Of course,
Speaker 1: of course, so during that time before the murders took place,
Speaker 1: you didn't see any indication of someone that was capable
Speaker 1: of what we now know he did. No when you
Speaker 1: look at the contrast from night and day. You know,
Speaker 1: I've seen professional experts say, well you should see scientists,
Speaker 1: so well, let's find you're the expert. But I was
Speaker 1: with him constantly on day to day basis, and I honestly,
Speaker 1: in my heart, it's my opinion that that he was fine.
Speaker 1: I don't think this darkness took over until he left us.
Speaker 1: And as we talk, I'll tell you how that took place.
Speaker 1: But that darkness wasn't there. I'm like I said, I
Speaker 1: can only give you my opinion. But I was in
Speaker 1: a constant relationship day to day to day to day
Speaker 1: for those years, and I didn't see it. Now. I
Speaker 1: knew later on, right near the end of it, what
Speaker 1: we would say goodbye because he because he moved um
Speaker 1: me and Rachel. I found out later that the drinking
Speaker 1: had gotten you know, he was known to the social
Speaker 1: rank and get crazy, they go out in karaoke, and
Speaker 1: I was fine with that. But he always told me. However,
Speaker 1: to your daughter home, I said, you've been or not?
Speaker 1: So at one point excuse me them and just explained
Speaker 1: to listeners. At one point he did stay in your
Speaker 1: home and then left and went and got his own apartment.
Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? Okay, yes, absolutely, And did
Speaker 1: he live with did he live with Emily or did
Speaker 1: he just live on his own? No? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: he really didn't live. He would come and spend big life,
Speaker 1: might spend the only couch or someone happened. No, he
Speaker 1: never that would never be allowed the house. He never
Speaker 1: lived with us, but he was. You would think he
Speaker 1: was a permanent fixture because it was constantly there because
Speaker 1: either in the theater or the appraisal business. But you
Speaker 1: cared enough about him where he was working in your
Speaker 1: professional and a professional capacity for you, not just in
Speaker 1: the musical theater end of his life, but also you
Speaker 1: let him stay when he when it was convenient for him,
Speaker 1: and you gave him a whole lot of furniture. Right,
Speaker 1: that's what your wife told me when when he finally
Speaker 1: did move out on his own. Yeah, well he decided
Speaker 1: to move on on his own. Um we we we
Speaker 1: we He said, hey, we're getting ready to move. We
Speaker 1: got a whole bunch of furniture. So they arrived when
Speaker 1: that month there was a Sunday or Saturday. But they
Speaker 1: arrived and she was sleeping in the cab of the truck.
Speaker 1: So I said, where's where's your better half? That's how
Speaker 1: we talked. He said, she's sleeping. Who are you referring
Speaker 1: to that? We're referring to Rachel Buffett. So at this
Speaker 1: point he is involved with Rachel Buffett. Right. I didn't
Speaker 1: know much about it. He had told we had met
Speaker 1: a young lady and he was trying weins me being
Speaker 1: a minister. I'm a a minister with the National Association
Speaker 1: of Christian Ministers, and he would ask me about my
Speaker 1: faith and his his faith and Catholicism. He said, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to talk to her because she
Speaker 1: has you know, more of It's not it's more of
Speaker 1: a non Catholicism of faith, he said. And so I
Speaker 1: just told him, you know, basically, how we talked about it.
Speaker 1: So he would have conversations about that, and from that
Speaker 1: I derived that he was getting this relationship with this girl.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know much about her. But Emily would
Speaker 1: tell me that he was seeing someone else, and I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess they were done with their relationship, so he
Speaker 1: was seeing someone else. And so I didn't really hear
Speaker 1: much from Dan after over a couple of weeks, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, they said, we need for address,
Speaker 1: and I got it for you. Come on by, and
Speaker 1: that's how we got to that point. So that's how
Speaker 1: I knew a little bit about Rachel Buffett. And when
Speaker 1: can you describe for us the first encounter that, the
Speaker 1: first significant encounter you had with her, and what were
Speaker 1: your feelings after meeting her hungover? I'm just I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. I just I didn't draw conclusions.
Speaker 1: But she was. She didn't even when they arrived, she
Speaker 1: didn't come up to say hi. She waves till the
Speaker 1: truck was loaded and then came out and was sleepy eyed.
Speaker 1: Had looked like she taught her just giving you my
Speaker 1: first impression, my opinion, to look like she had tiedling
Speaker 1: on and I kind of went. She didn't say much
Speaker 1: and said thanks. I got back in the car and
Speaker 1: they took off, and when she was there, Dan was
Speaker 1: kind of Dan was really black. I've never seen before.
Speaker 1: He was kind of attentive to her. She moved. One
Speaker 1: way that his gregariousness with us was he got around
Speaker 1: my wife. They just they was just like mother's son.
Speaker 1: They had a great relationship. But when she came in
Speaker 1: for that first time, I got kind of quiet, kind
Speaker 1: of reserves, and I couldn't draw any conclusions at that time.
Speaker 1: I was just happy to help Dan out. We loaded
Speaker 1: the truck, she ne Gooby got in the truck, and
Speaker 1: they left. So the only real shift you saw in
Speaker 1: Daniel's personality was that in this particular case, with this
Speaker 1: particular woman, he was very attentive and very cognizant of
Speaker 1: her needs and wants. Yeah, And the reason I say
Speaker 1: that is we in the theater world, as I say,
Speaker 1: have context. You're saying something bad about somebody in Orange County,
Speaker 1: and you may fly out and see a play in
Speaker 1: New York and of our personal company going, I heard
Speaker 1: you said this about somebody. I said, this is how close?
Speaker 1: And that this is I heard for the next seple
Speaker 1: of years that it was dark because we didn't hear
Speaker 1: from Dan and friends that we knew in the theater
Speaker 1: that he knew and my daughter knew, said you can't
Speaker 1: go there anymore, And I said why, and I said,
Speaker 1: he says, it's dark. They're hanging around, people with drugs.
Speaker 1: They're hanging around, and I'm just hearing this is what's
Speaker 1: being said to me. And I said, I was wondering
Speaker 1: why I haven't heard from him, and he goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's whatever darkness those two have gotten into. It's just
Speaker 1: not nice. And slowly the friends started to fade away.
Speaker 1: I didn't get much involved because my daughter wasn't involved,
Speaker 1: but we had had such a bond that I said,
Speaker 1: I really want to know what happened to him, and
Speaker 1: so give you an idea. For the next couple of years,
Speaker 1: I just kind of watched. I didn't get to see much,
Speaker 1: but it would drift back in conversations, either in Facebook, email,
Speaker 1: phone calls. People would slowly start to say there was
Speaker 1: a darkness forming over there. What that meant, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but they said the friends they hung out were rough,
Speaker 1: they were into heavy drugs, and that was it. Now
Speaker 1: again I could be here safe. So based on the
Speaker 1: fact that the theater community in Orange County is a
Speaker 1: tight community, you're saying there were sort of eyes and
Speaker 1: ears that were sharing with you things that they learned
Speaker 1: or new or saw first hand exactly. And the reason
Speaker 1: I tell you this is because they got back to
Speaker 1: me because they said, this is not the Dan you knew.
Speaker 1: We don't know where this came from, because this it
Speaker 1: totally took them by surprise. They knew he liked to
Speaker 1: drink and have a good time, but this darkness that
Speaker 1: sent in the fact that he was desperate and needed money.
Speaker 1: Good Heavens, Dan was never at that point in his life,
Speaker 1: but it just I don't know how the shift came,
Speaker 1: but I know this, This is my opinion based upon
Speaker 1: what I physically saw and heard. That woman changed his world.
Speaker 1: Now he's an adult and went along with it. But
Speaker 1: that world changed from when they drove off in that truck.
Speaker 1: The Dan I would hear again from after that was
Speaker 1: not the same day. And I knew. I understand from
Speaker 1: some close friends of his that Daniel never really felt
Speaker 1: that he, for lack of a better word, deserved Rachel.
Speaker 1: He always felt he loved her, and the love was,
Speaker 1: from what I am being told, very much a one
Speaker 1: sided love. Do you think that there is self esteem
Speaker 1: issues here that perhaps he felt he had to please
Speaker 1: her in any way possible and would be willing to
Speaker 1: do whatever it took to please her. In my opinion, absolutely,
Speaker 1: people are afraid afraid to say that, but I'm not.
Speaker 1: I knew Dan very well. And when the Orange County
Speaker 1: papers started reporting, well, you know this is this is
Speaker 1: the psychopath and this is this isn't that he never
Speaker 1: could have been that good, I said, Malogny. I said,
Speaker 1: you've sheltered this woman for too many years. How I said,
Speaker 1: this woman changed that man's life. Now again, he's an adult,
Speaker 1: he can make the decision, but that she was. So
Speaker 1: I had to get permission to go see Dan. And
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in them when you couldn't do
Speaker 1: anything because I would talk to Dan's mom, Maryanne, and
Speaker 1: she would tell me, oh, you gotta talk with Rachel
Speaker 1: because you know, there's just you can't see Dan west Rachel.
Speaker 1: And MAT's when I found out Rachel was the leader
Speaker 1: in that group. And you stopped your sentence there, you said,
Speaker 1: mary Anne, who's Daniel wasnia ext mother for our listeners.
Speaker 1: Mary Anne said you had to go through Rachel Y. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wanted to visit him. And this was the about
Speaker 1: the second week in June. So of two thousand ten,
Speaker 1: and I said I want to visit, and she was, well,
Speaker 1: you have to talk to Rachel. I said, Rachel, Oh,
Speaker 1: Rachel love it. Yeah, I said, why do I got
Speaker 1: to go through her bees? She was the fiance Danny
Speaker 1: that she called me Danny, and she goes, she's a fiance.
Speaker 1: You have to talk to her. And there was a
Speaker 1: tone in Marianne's voice that was hurt. And I'm not
Speaker 1: a psychologist, but she we would have conversations and she
Speaker 1: just Marianne always tried to put it that was her,
Speaker 1: that was her boy, and she didn't like the fact
Speaker 1: that she didn't even have You got the feeling that
Speaker 1: this woman what she said as goes and Dan will
Speaker 1: do it, and Dan will take anyone else out that
Speaker 1: doesn't listen. That's the Dan. I would say, is it
Speaker 1: your belief, Dan, that Marianne Wazniak feels the same way
Speaker 1: about Rachel that you do. We went up because he
Speaker 1: had an aunt. He had an aunt that was just
Speaker 1: a hysterical. Dan had an aunt that was wonderful, really
Speaker 1: close to the family, and they would all get together
Speaker 1: and we'd go see plays that Dan was in or
Speaker 1: that I was in, or that I would be directing
Speaker 1: that Dan was in and that's how close everything was.
Speaker 1: You could see how close he was to his mother.
Speaker 1: He was close to her, close to his father. I
Speaker 1: mean that ended to me, That kind of ended when
Speaker 1: she came in because she became the focus. So you're saying,
Speaker 1: once Rachel came into Daniel's life, he distanced himself from
Speaker 1: his family, and he had at one point he was
Speaker 1: very close to that family that you're saying. Mary Anne
Speaker 1: and Darryl used to attend all of Dan's musicals. Mhm, mhm.
Speaker 1: Right the minute he got into that truck with Rachel
Speaker 1: Buffett and they left our house with our furniture. The
Speaker 1: Dan that I knew, who enjoyed life, who enjoyed his family,
Speaker 1: who loved everything. That just vanished part of my language.
Speaker 1: But who in the heck is this? So the next
Speaker 1: time you saw Daniel was nick when he was sitting
Speaker 1: in Orange County Jail in an orange jumpsuit. Nope, I
Speaker 1: would see Daniel about. I was doing a play in
Speaker 1: Long Beach at a at a melodrama club and Dan
Speaker 1: I was doing a children's show there. And as I
Speaker 1: was doing the children's show, someone said, uh, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we've got an adult program here in the evening, and
Speaker 1: you must know one of them, Daniel was nick. I said,
Speaker 1: I'll be a son of a gun. He's in the show.
Speaker 1: He's doing the show to go. Yeah, he does the
Speaker 1: nice stuff. We did the daytime stuff and uh, I
Speaker 1: said great. But they said, but he doesn't like you.
Speaker 1: And I said, excuse me, They said, he doesn't like you.
Speaker 1: He said, you'll take over everything, and you can. You'll
Speaker 1: be controlling and this and this and that and this
Speaker 1: is the produce. So I said, are you sure you've
Speaker 1: got the right Dan wasn't. He goes yeah. But then
Speaker 1: I saw Dan in the parking lot several days later,
Speaker 1: go hey, Dann, what's going on? And hey, it's good
Speaker 1: to see it. Yeah, okay, I gotta go by, And
Speaker 1: I said, I told my wife when I got home,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on here. But then I
Speaker 1: just let it go because it was too hurtful, and
Speaker 1: I just said, I I gotta let that go because
Speaker 1: I remember at that time, I now was hearing that
Speaker 1: Dan was changing, things were going on, is getting dark,
Speaker 1: and it seemed very disconnected to me when I saw him.
Speaker 1: Then the next time I would see him would be
Speaker 1: in the orange jumpsuit at the men's County jail. So
Speaker 1: that was just a precursor that things were shifting for Daniel,
Speaker 1: and he barely gave you the time of day. Well,
Speaker 1: the play that he did, the last play that he
Speaker 1: was in with Rachel. Dan never would have done something
Speaker 1: like that. That was one of the darkest plays I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, And it's looking at his persona in that production,
Speaker 1: I went, he would never pick something like that. He's
Speaker 1: a good, very talented actor, but that that wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been his style. He wouldn't have done that. But it
Speaker 1: was certainly foreboding for his future, wasn't it. You know,
Speaker 1: people grow up and they do different things and they
Speaker 1: get they find different interests. But of all the plays
Speaker 1: he would do since he's been gone, he come back
Speaker 1: to that one. It's just I don't know, just I
Speaker 1: can only base all these observations on my relationship with him.
Speaker 1: Perhaps it's more indication of her influence over him. Well,
Speaker 1: the fact that it was going on during that play,
Speaker 1: I would think. So that's that was the epitome of
Speaker 1: what I felt. I think when I saw the play
Speaker 1: they were in and the characters who were playing, and
Speaker 1: that this thing, this tragedy happened during this I said,
Speaker 1: don't tell me you don't know anything about what's going on,
Speaker 1: because that I'm not buying because of Rachel. I know,
Speaker 1: and the day, and I know there's no way you know,
Speaker 1: you're getting to something that's getting really tender with me.
Speaker 1: But I think there's a there's a lot hasn't been
Speaker 1: discovered yet. I hope it does. Well. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1: Because this trial takes place and she is charged, as
Speaker 1: we know, with three felony accounts of accessory after the fact,
Speaker 1: if she's convicted, the maximum time she'll she'll spend in
Speaker 1: prison is three years. In my opinion, it's a shame.
Speaker 1: Three years would never be close to enough justice for
Speaker 1: the families based upon what I believe her complicity was.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you believe her complicity was. Give us.
Speaker 1: I went to see Daniel. I went to see Daniel
Speaker 1: of the third week in June. Rachel and her mom,
Speaker 1: Maryanne met me there. We sat and we talked for
Speaker 1: a while. And first, first of all, I was upset
Speaker 1: that I had to go through her to get to
Speaker 1: see my friend, but that I got over asked. Rachel
Speaker 1: was very You never would have known. I'm telling you
Speaker 1: my first impressions. You never would have known something as
Speaker 1: horrific has just happened three weeks Pater that had happened.
Speaker 1: I was. I was kind of taken back by that
Speaker 1: at first. Blush. We got to talking and back and
Speaker 1: forth with free Mom. I had the opinion Mom didn't
Speaker 1: get the whole picture from Rachel because the conversation didn't
Speaker 1: make sense. She kept saying that, well, I had no
Speaker 1: idea this was coming. Yeah, and we just had no
Speaker 1: ideas this is going on. And I said to myself,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But then she said something that
Speaker 1: this is very very important. You need to hear this.
Speaker 1: When I saw her on Dr Phil go through that
Speaker 1: whole RANDMA with Dr Phil, Rachel said something to me
Speaker 1: in front of her mother that I actually emailed her
Speaker 1: mother back that night and gave her a warning. Rachel
Speaker 1: told me and no certain terms. You know, the night
Speaker 1: that that lady was killed, I was on an email
Speaker 1: to her and I felt so suspicious and scared because
Speaker 1: Daniel was standing right behind me, and I about dropped
Speaker 1: my job and I said, you what, Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: so spooky I looked at her mom, and her mom
Speaker 1: just clambed up real quick. We went to the the
Speaker 1: talking process, and then I went to see Daniel and
Speaker 1: we got our eye signals like I'll be back you
Speaker 1: and I will talk. And when I got home, I
Speaker 1: I write on that email, I said, mary Anne, and
Speaker 1: I still have that email. I said, Maryanne, you need
Speaker 1: to be very cautious of something. Your daughter said something
Speaker 1: that gives me pause, and I think you need to
Speaker 1: talk about it with her. And I related to what
Speaker 1: I had heard. Never talked to her mother after that.
Speaker 1: Maybe a couple of congenial hides, but they just stopped
Speaker 1: the communications. They get back and that's when I told
Speaker 1: my wife. I said, there's more to this story than
Speaker 1: than me. C I I just I can't it doesn't
Speaker 1: add up to me. And I said, I'm not the
Speaker 1: police here, but that broke my heart. I was convinced
Speaker 1: now after that conversation, that this general lady was going
Speaker 1: to get away with literally murder, and there wasn't much
Speaker 1: I could do. I mean, and Dan won't give her up.
Speaker 1: For some reason. Dan is not letting that go. And
Speaker 1: I and I told Daniel, I looked him right in
Speaker 1: the eye as a minister and his been. I said,
Speaker 1: you owe this to God and you owe this to
Speaker 1: those families. You need to come clean. I can't make
Speaker 1: you so I know, I said, don't be yes me, Daniel.
Speaker 1: God knows what happened that night, and he knows who
Speaker 1: was involved. You say you're you say you're saved, you're
Speaker 1: born again, but you just need to do what's right.
Speaker 1: And you know we've that's where we left it. But
Speaker 1: that's what happened on the first visit when Marianne and
Speaker 1: Buffett and her daughter Rachel Buffett and I spoke for
Speaker 1: about forty five minutes to an hour before he went
Speaker 1: into see Dan. So I'd like to go over that
Speaker 1: because it's a lot to just take in. And Daniel,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing all that. So what
Speaker 1: you're saying is, before your first visit into the Men's
Speaker 1: County Jail to visit Daniel Wazniak, you sat first with
Speaker 1: mary Ann Buffett and Rachel Buffett, and in that conversation
Speaker 1: Rachel spoke to you about what she said on the
Speaker 1: Doctor Phil Show. Again, she shared with you what she
Speaker 1: said on the Doctor Phil Show. No, she wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been on the Doctor Phil Show. By then, remember Dr
Speaker 1: Phil Show would come down the line. Okay, so that's
Speaker 1: what I was confused about. Dr Phil was was soon
Speaker 1: after she was arrested. In No, it's when I saw
Speaker 1: It's when I saw Dr Phil and watch what she said.
Speaker 1: My wife had to control me because I stood up
Speaker 1: and said, but that's not what you said to me
Speaker 1: and your mother. You said you texted her and you
Speaker 1: thought dan was right behind you. But now you're telling
Speaker 1: us you had no idea that this man was like this.
Speaker 1: This is what drove me nuts. He convinced everybody. She
Speaker 1: convinced everybody that I had no idea whether you came
Speaker 1: where this came from. I said, nonsense, lady, you know
Speaker 1: exactly where this came from because you were part of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't hide something like that. But then
Speaker 1: when she said that little sentence to me, if you
Speaker 1: were to suspect, how can you turn around if you
Speaker 1: were suspected Danner creaked out by it? When you saying anything,
Speaker 1: I mean, now you're acting like this came from a surprise.
Speaker 1: I do you see what I'm trying to say. So
Speaker 1: you're saying I want to just I just want to
Speaker 1: reduce it to what I'm hearing, and and to make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm clear on what I'm hearing you're saying.
Speaker 1: On the first visit to meet with your friend Daniel Wazniac,
Speaker 1: when he was sitting in Men's County Jail in Orange County,
Speaker 1: you first sat with Maryanne Buffett and Rachel Buffett, and
Speaker 1: in that conversation, she mentioned to you how she recalls
Speaker 1: sending an email to Julie Kubushi and who was standing
Speaker 1: right behind her watching her send this email was none
Speaker 1: other than Daniel was Niac. Yes, so I got that right,
Speaker 1: and it creeped and yes, and it creeped her out.
Speaker 1: She said, it's important to get that in there because
Speaker 1: it creeped her out. But yet she has been claimed everyone.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this monster came from. So
Speaker 1: what do you feel like she was trying to tell
Speaker 1: you at that moment that they were in it together.
Speaker 1: I think she was trying to puff piece me like
Speaker 1: she did everyone else. Oh, he my friend, He'll listen
Speaker 1: to me. I'm a minister. I'm not stupid. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to thank your side or Dan side.
Speaker 1: I know I feel for the families. I think what
Speaker 1: this was. No, No, that's not what I'm asking what No, Daniel,
Speaker 1: What I'm asking is, what do you believe her intent,
Speaker 1: Rachel Buffett's intent was when she told you that in
Speaker 1: that conversation you had before you went into visit Daniel,
Speaker 1: was she trying to share with you how she was
Speaker 1: involved with Daniel in this planning, you know, And from
Speaker 1: the furthest parts of my mind, I kind of got
Speaker 1: the feeling that was a way for Rachel to say,
Speaker 1: I'm scared. I don't know what to do with this.
Speaker 1: Got it? It seems based on what I'm hearing you say,
Speaker 1: that Rachel was trying to tell you or convince you
Speaker 1: that she was afraid, but yet she knew what was
Speaker 1: going on, She knew what the plan was with him
Speaker 1: standing right behind her. That makes sense, does That's? That's yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, I worked with enough temuchers know that you
Speaker 1: get so deep into the lie you don't know what
Speaker 1: the truth is anymore, and sometimes you'll reach out in
Speaker 1: the weirdest ways to people, And I just felt that
Speaker 1: what was happening, that that was happening in there, but
Speaker 1: that moment was gone. But that moment really obviously had
Speaker 1: an impact on you, because it sounds to me like
Speaker 1: you're still haunted by that conversation. And I'd love to
Speaker 1: know more about how you else. Because you said you
Speaker 1: told your wife that night. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: shared it with Mary Ann Wazniak, but I sure would
Speaker 1: love to hear more. I shared it with no one.
Speaker 1: You shared it with no one. I shared it with
Speaker 1: no one. I shared it with my wife because I
Speaker 1: shared everything with her UM. I would definitely not share
Speaker 1: with Marianne. I would not share it with anyone. But
Speaker 1: what it did change me emotionally. It told me that
Speaker 1: she was hiding behind faith and this angered me. She
Speaker 1: was hiding behind faith in her church at Costa Mesa
Speaker 1: UM Calgary Chappell Coast. To myself, they were going to
Speaker 1: hide behind Mom was going to get her to interview
Speaker 1: with them and talk with them, and he'll kind of
Speaker 1: give her guidance and everything. And I said, you can't.
Speaker 1: I told her the same thing until Dan, don't hide
Speaker 1: behind GUD. That ain't gonna happen. Don't do that. I
Speaker 1: tell you you're right now, don't do it. And that's
Speaker 1: what I think when she said that to me. One
Speaker 1: of two things was going on a what I just
Speaker 1: told you, I think she was trying to reach out
Speaker 1: and tell me something or be She was so immersed
Speaker 1: into the lie by then it was just another performance
Speaker 1: and I was just another person in the audience watching it.
Speaker 1: So she thought she poured on and for the last
Speaker 1: number of years I had struggled with both of those points.
Speaker 1: So ironically, in her zeal to quote unquote perform for you,
Speaker 1: as you say, she wanted you to believe that she
Speaker 1: was this innocent right, that she was just a damsel
Speaker 1: in distress, creeped out as she said to you, by
Speaker 1: Dan standing behind her when she sent that message to
Speaker 1: Julie on Facebook. But what she accidentally revealed to you
Speaker 1: really was that that piece of information that in fact
Speaker 1: he was standing behind her, which one can conclude meant
Speaker 1: that they were in partnership and they were in cahoots
Speaker 1: with this plan. You know. But I think over the
Speaker 1: years she's learned to mastermind it. Now now she's polished
Speaker 1: her technique and she's got it down to where she
Speaker 1: doesn't even know what the truth is anymore. She's so
Speaker 1: far gone, in my opinion, based upon that encounter I
Speaker 1: had with her, I had the right to say what
Speaker 1: I say, and I really think, in my opinion, based
Speaker 1: upon what I heard and observed from her with her mother,
Speaker 1: she was an integral part of this operation. She she
Speaker 1: took Dan down that dark road, they ran out of money,
Speaker 1: they got into drugs, and then she flipped switches and said,
Speaker 1: we've got to do that, take care of this. And
Speaker 1: I just believe she was part of it. Well, that
Speaker 1: is certainly a lot to take in. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to expand on your thought that you said that she
Speaker 1: was hiding behind her faith. One of an instance that
Speaker 1: I can recall when I when I first met with
Speaker 1: you and your wife. Your wife had said to me
Speaker 1: that during the Doctor Phil episode, when she tries to
Speaker 1: explain away one of her felony charges, which is what
Speaker 1: that she told police the same story about there was
Speaker 1: a third man in a black hat that they last
Speaker 1: saw with Sam and a story quite frankly that Daniel
Speaker 1: ultimately told police was a lie that he made it up,
Speaker 1: but at the time she went with it, and she
Speaker 1: told the same thing to police. And the way she
Speaker 1: was trying to explain that away on Dr Phil was
Speaker 1: she used this coffee pot story. You have a wife,
Speaker 1: right I do a beautiful wife. Thank you. If your
Speaker 1: wife told you that she had just made a cop
Speaker 1: or a pot of coffee and it was in the kitchen,
Speaker 1: and then you didn't see it, but later on somehow
Speaker 1: it became really important whether or not it was there,
Speaker 1: and a cop asked you, um, what was in your
Speaker 1: kitchen and say, oh s bachelor fork and a pot
Speaker 1: of coffee. I trusted him, and I trusted that what
Speaker 1: he said was true, and especially before I thought it
Speaker 1: really mattered, I didn't question it. And then later on
Speaker 1: in question when the police asked me, well, did you
Speaker 1: actually see him? And I said, well, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you back when I had a real
Speaker 1: job before this, UM, I worked as a litigation consultant.
Speaker 1: And that sounded like a really coached response that didn't
Speaker 1: sound like Rachel talking. I want to know what you
Speaker 1: have to say about it, not what you worked out
Speaker 1: in a conference room with your lawyer to say about it.
Speaker 1: And your wife told me that that is a story
Speaker 1: that was coached straight out of the Calvary Church. Can
Speaker 1: you expand on that. I'm not going to label the
Speaker 1: Calvery Church for that one, because I have too much
Speaker 1: respect for Coveray Chapel and no. Well, what I mean
Speaker 1: is when you said to me earlier in this interview
Speaker 1: that she hides behind her faith. It recalls for me
Speaker 1: the conversation I had with your wife when she said
Speaker 1: that that was a very coached story that was told
Speaker 1: to her by the Calgary church. After all, it was
Speaker 1: the Calgary church that raised Rachel Buffett's bail money to
Speaker 1: begin with. Well, the thing, the thing you have to understand.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be on a lecture here, but
Speaker 1: I think she took everything that those good pastors and
Speaker 1: laid people to talk to her about and twisted it
Speaker 1: to her own being. The thing I mean, she twists everything.
Speaker 1: I mean, she twists it all. And the thing is
Speaker 1: is I don't I will say this day go to
Speaker 1: my death knowing that they did not coach her to
Speaker 1: say that, because that that is wilful, wilful disobedience against
Speaker 1: our respect and our love for God. And they never
Speaker 1: were to coach her. That this woman took something, twisted
Speaker 1: it and used it. I watched her, that was a desperation.
Speaker 1: She got in front of Dr Phil and she fell apart.
Speaker 1: How much these people are hurting and they think that
Speaker 1: I had anything to do with that. It's bringing up
Speaker 1: a lot of pain for me, but I want some
Speaker 1: sort of healing or at least for them to just
Speaker 1: know that I didn't have anything to do with their
Speaker 1: pain before that. Did you make a mistake here anywhere
Speaker 1: along the way? Maybe I made a mistake coming on
Speaker 1: the show. I don't know. She was totally dismantled, and
Speaker 1: she was hesitant, and she was non consoling. It is
Speaker 1: I'm sorry she hurt. In the Bible, there's an expression
Speaker 1: called your heart is hardened. It gets to the point
Speaker 1: to where you don't care quickly. A quick point in
Speaker 1: case is the Pharaoh. And even when you told the
Speaker 1: plagues with Moses, and God said, I will harden his heart,
Speaker 1: I will heart his heart. But yet he'll forgive you again.
Speaker 1: He'll forgive you again. So he gave the Pharaoh a
Speaker 1: lots of times, but then he hurt his heart every time,
Speaker 1: and he said, that's where it's going to be. Well, Daniel, Also,
Speaker 1: we we don't know what she said to Calvary. I
Speaker 1: mean she could have told Calvary, I've trusted my fiance.
Speaker 1: My fiance told me all this and I believed him.
Speaker 1: So how do I express that, How do I share
Speaker 1: that with Dr Phil They never would have told her.
Speaker 1: If they didn't, they would have never gave her that advice.
Speaker 1: I can sit right here you talked. They've never given
Speaker 1: her that type of advice. The church would never have
Speaker 1: put itself in that position, because that was the most
Speaker 1: foolish thing I had ever seen. It was it. I'm
Speaker 1: surprised that there. Of course, there are people gullible enough
Speaker 1: to buy that story. But I'm just sorry that that.
Speaker 1: I defend my church, and uh, you know, I wasn't there.
Speaker 1: I don't know what she told them, But regardless of
Speaker 1: what they told him, you know, um, that wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been hit because I talked to my Calverygeble pastor and
Speaker 1: he told me, says, that's between her and God. He said,
Speaker 1: that's between her and God because no one's ever going
Speaker 1: to know what happened, he said, and you'll have to
Speaker 1: be accountable, damn for it. And that's what the church
Speaker 1: would have told her, Hunting, you need to tell the truth.
Speaker 1: You need to tell the truth, regardless what happened. The
Speaker 1: truth is at the bottom of all of this. If
Speaker 1: you lie, God knows you applied. You'll deal with him later,
Speaker 1: and that's all the church would have done, Timeter. They
Speaker 1: helped her because they were members of the church, and
Speaker 1: so the church tries to help their own. But for
Speaker 1: the church to give that type of advice, no, And
Speaker 1: that's what also infuriated. People hide by the faith and
Speaker 1: they interpret and turn it around their way. And well,
Speaker 1: I think she's been doing that for a very long time.
Speaker 1: And I think she she's as good as an actress
Speaker 1: as can be if she can convince the fine people
Speaker 1: of Calvary Church that she's innocent, because they raised so
Speaker 1: much money on behalf of her bail from the community
Speaker 1: of in the church. So obviously somewhere along the line,
Speaker 1: the members and the and the and the people that
Speaker 1: run the church were convinced of her innocence. And that
Speaker 1: sounds you know, the church is made up of we
Speaker 1: always say in the faith, the church is made up
Speaker 1: of senters. We're just the difference between us is we've
Speaker 1: been saved, as they talk about in the Christian faith,
Speaker 1: but we're still susceptible to being gullible, you know. And
Speaker 1: the thing is that God blessom for helping to raise
Speaker 1: the money. You know, they in their heart, they were
Speaker 1: doing something they felt was right. And if she's wrong
Speaker 1: and it's going to prove to be that way, then
Speaker 1: they're just gonna say, well, we loved her, and we
Speaker 1: did what we were supposed to do. We were supposed
Speaker 1: to help a fellow sister in the church. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not their job to be judge and jury. That's God.
Speaker 1: That's true. I think that's where the cavery Schappell came from.
Speaker 1: That's true. You know what I'm saying. Yes, And I
Speaker 1: know her boyfriend, just as a side note, shows up
Speaker 1: at all the preliminary hearings with proverbs stitched in his shirt.
Speaker 1: Once again, that's an example of how she's learned how
Speaker 1: to hide behind her faith because she certainly she does
Speaker 1: know how to perform or whatever she did. I cannot
Speaker 1: prejudge her from a faith based point of view, because
Speaker 1: that's he hearing God, and he tells us in the Bible,
Speaker 1: don't you be judging people. That's my job. All I
Speaker 1: know is based on what I've seen and my interactions
Speaker 1: with her, is that it's like I told Daniel, you
Speaker 1: walk down the wrong path when you started playing like
Speaker 1: you're saying, even borning and all this so you'd be
Speaker 1: very careful with that because you start mocking God and
Speaker 1: you can have to deal with them eventually. Enough said there,
Speaker 1: So tell me about that as you continue down the road,
Speaker 1: because I know that you met with and you'll fairly often.
Speaker 1: Did you always have to go through Rachel or did
Speaker 1: did anything change with that relationship? Nope? After that first visit,
Speaker 1: I made it very clear to her her mother and Dan,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get anyone's permission to see you.
Speaker 1: And so I applied to the jail and she was history.
Speaker 1: After that, she never came. He would see her, but
Speaker 1: I said, I want nothing to do with it. You'll
Speaker 1: see me when I'm available, and we'll come in and
Speaker 1: see each other. So I, I I meanly came in on
Speaker 1: Saturdays to see him. So you had no interaction with
Speaker 1: her after that one instance, Nope, I was done. You know.
Speaker 1: I tried to help it after that. What she said,
Speaker 1: I see they're backing away from this. I'm saying, I
Speaker 1: hit a nerve. I'm leaving it alone. My focus is
Speaker 1: on my friend Danny. So tell us about your friend
Speaker 1: Dan and your talks with him and your meetings with him.
Speaker 1: Share with us what you learned. During that time about
Speaker 1: your friend. Well, knowing first that when I came in
Speaker 1: everything is monitored. We knew you can't talk about the
Speaker 1: case itself. They don't. They get a little cranky about that.
Speaker 1: And I told Daniel, I said, Daniel, I said, so
Speaker 1: I learned. I learned a circle talk, and what I
Speaker 1: would do. The basic thing was to see a are
Speaker 1: you okay, are you keeping in touch with mom? How's
Speaker 1: your how's your heart feeling? And so we we would
Speaker 1: do that. That's the first thing we would do. We
Speaker 1: we have our little meet and greet and we'd say, hey,
Speaker 1: how you're doing a few jokes and he and that's
Speaker 1: just the way he had I had our conversation. So
Speaker 1: I was trying to keep as natural, but I was trying,
Speaker 1: and he was really into the Bible. He had his
Speaker 1: Bible mark up. So I would send him in the
Speaker 1: scripture readings and we would constantly back and forth for
Speaker 1: quite a while, would be sharing letters about the Bible. Letter.
Speaker 1: He's very knowledgeable. He was sharing his people there. But
Speaker 1: then a lot of people say that gel House conversion
Speaker 1: could have been but I felt the answers he was
Speaker 1: getting to me were quite real. However, that being said
Speaker 1: as we got near the end of the visits, because
Speaker 1: then I stopped coming because it's just got to be
Speaker 1: too much. You know, I've got a family to around here.
Speaker 1: Um about that time, I think he met a blogger
Speaker 1: at that time, and that started to get a little
Speaker 1: out of hand for me. And but let me finish
Speaker 1: up with Dan when he talked at great length, and
Speaker 1: one of the themes that would run through this conversation
Speaker 1: when I looked at me and said, you know what
Speaker 1: you gotta do. You do not let Scott Sanderson run
Speaker 1: this trial. And I told Scott to back off. Scott said,
Speaker 1: I don't like you talking to him about the faith.
Speaker 1: I said, them of your business, and man, I said,
Speaker 1: I will talk to that man about what I want.
Speaker 1: And neither you nor the court are gonna tell me
Speaker 1: I can't. And I told you and I said that
Speaker 1: and said, you want to stop my business, go ahead,
Speaker 1: And he said no. He said I've told Scott you
Speaker 1: can talk to I said, you dog on right, I
Speaker 1: can talk to you. Because he knew I was. I'm
Speaker 1: very true to my faith. And I said, Dan, I'm
Speaker 1: a sinner. Is the next guy. I said that, you
Speaker 1: know what God loves you, and he still loves you,
Speaker 1: and I said, but you can't be true for him.
Speaker 1: I said, you know in your heart if you owe
Speaker 1: those families and apologies, that's up to you. I cannot
Speaker 1: make you do that. If you did it, he said,
Speaker 1: that's how I had to couch it because I didn't
Speaker 1: want him to get into that, and so he was
Speaker 1: good with that. But the biggest question I was asked,
Speaker 1: I mean, was he conning me during all these visits?
Speaker 1: I said no, and my wife said, really, I said,
Speaker 1: he still was this the day I told her that,
Speaker 1: here was a comment. I told her the Dan I
Speaker 1: started talking to was the one that left me in
Speaker 1: the moving drunk. He's back and she goes what I said,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you something. He's no longer in that woman's environment,
Speaker 1: and it's gone. But it's too late. The damage is done.
Speaker 1: But this is the Daniel I knew, and people have
Speaker 1: always like, no, this is the same. This is the
Speaker 1: Daniel I knew. And that's why I loved going to
Speaker 1: see him because Dan could never be asked me because
Speaker 1: I always told him, Dan, you can't be sps returning
Speaker 1: to try it. He'd laugh and uh, but no, Linda.
Speaker 1: The transformation was frightening. Not the first couple of business,
Speaker 1: because I see he was still routed by her and
Speaker 1: the whole thing that went on. But as we started
Speaker 1: talking and getting back to who he was, I saw that,
Speaker 1: I saw the death. I loved going there because that
Speaker 1: was the Daniel I honestly believe. I've told several people,
Speaker 1: I said, you don't understand the dam that left and
Speaker 1: came back. I'm sorry, I mean, that's a different character.
Speaker 1: He said, well, I said no, even his mom told
Speaker 1: us how he grew up the way it was. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's it changed. But in the jail visits, that was
Speaker 1: the Dan I enjoyed talking to. Because I know my wife,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't waste my time. But I said, Dane, I said,
Speaker 1: he's on it, and so he'd write me. He said,
Speaker 1: my birthday cards on my and he called me Dano.
Speaker 1: That's my nickname with Dan Dano, you know. And I said,
Speaker 1: I said well, and I told her, I said that
Speaker 1: after a while, this blogger got involved, and I just said,
Speaker 1: I don't know where that story was going. And that
Speaker 1: was taken Dan off into just a to a tangent.
Speaker 1: I wasn't quite sure what was going on. And I said,
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. So I told Dan, I said,
Speaker 1: and there you're gonna be heading up to Quintin so
Speaker 1: and I said, but I will try to keep up
Speaker 1: with you. I'll try to keep at touch with you.
Speaker 1: And the last time I saw Dan was on a
Speaker 1: jail house documentary or something where he was talking and
Speaker 1: bragging about something and I looked at my wife and said,
Speaker 1: who is that? I said, that's the third Daniel. I
Speaker 1: don't get this. This moved like a commercial Daniel. I
Speaker 1: don't know that's how I called it. This was a
Speaker 1: man with no remorse, and this is who I am.
Speaker 1: And that was basically the last, the last remember I
Speaker 1: had of Dan, but I did. I will say this, Linda,
Speaker 1: for the record, the Dan I knew came back for
Speaker 1: the brief time. I got to talk to him in
Speaker 1: prisident and counsel him and talk to him that Dan
Speaker 1: was back. I just wish you hadn't the left. So
Speaker 1: the documentary that you're referring to, is that the lot
Speaker 1: when he appeared on lock Up on CBC's lock Up
Speaker 1: when he was denying that he was involved in the murders. YEP,
Speaker 1: I look here, I said, and she said, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: And my wife said, you still believe it's him. I said, no,
Speaker 1: that's the world. Get a hold of him. But you
Speaker 1: do know, of course, that he did confess to police
Speaker 1: the day after he was arrested that you know he
Speaker 1: did he did kill those people. But see, that's the Dan,
Speaker 1: that's the truthful Dan. That's the truth. I'm glad they
Speaker 1: got that out of him because that's who Dan is.
Speaker 1: He's or is being honest. The fact that he didn't
Speaker 1: drag that as I did. I did it. But Dan
Speaker 1: is a victim of of what I call circumstance and
Speaker 1: things around him in his environment. You know, it'll swing
Speaker 1: one way. That they got that out of him right
Speaker 1: away when he was as most vulnerable. That's probably the
Speaker 1: most truthful Dan ever was. I mean, well that was
Speaker 1: also after all he had he had a call with Rachel,
Speaker 1: and on that call, Rachel shared with him that she
Speaker 1: ran into Tim Wazniak and Tim told her that he
Speaker 1: had the gun and the evidence, and and he knew
Speaker 1: that Rachel was bringing that in that basically she was
Speaker 1: going to go to Costa Mesa with that information. That
Speaker 1: was prompted by a friend of hers that was sitting
Speaker 1: right next to her her car, a woman by the
Speaker 1: name of Violet Randolph, because she wasn't going to do
Speaker 1: that on her own, but Violet said, if you don't
Speaker 1: go to the police, I will, And that's when Dan
Speaker 1: called in from jail and said, Okay, I have to
Speaker 1: tell the Coast of Masa police what I heard from
Speaker 1: Tim or else. It looks like I'm covering up everything
Speaker 1: she did. It seems was based on her protecting herself.
Speaker 1: And and so that's one day decides he's going to
Speaker 1: now go in and tell the Coastal Maca police. He said,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, and that's when he
Speaker 1: confessed to the murders. What I want to know is
Speaker 1: what she had on him or what she did to
Speaker 1: him that he still does this day. We're not involver
Speaker 1: that just that defies the Danna even I knew that
Speaker 1: he would do that. The sense that I haven't, the
Speaker 1: sense that I have from the people I've spoken to,
Speaker 1: is that it involves Tim and Tim. Tim's involvement is
Speaker 1: is hinged on Rachel's involvement. So therefore, if he reveals
Speaker 1: Rachel's role as the mastermind or certainly as an accomplice
Speaker 1: in these crimes. Then she will revealed Tim's involvement as well.
Speaker 1: So I think it has to do with him protecting
Speaker 1: his brother. Yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah, through the second party,
Speaker 1: I agree with that. So tell me what was No,
Speaker 1: I've not talked to him since he's got I've not
Speaker 1: talked to him since he's on to Quentin and had
Speaker 1: no communications. And so you felt the visits that you
Speaker 1: had with him, you felt like you reconnected and who
Speaker 1: reappeared was the old Daniel you once knew. Yeah, I,
Speaker 1: to my dying day will say that he was saying
Speaker 1: prayers with other people, he was leading worship services and stuff,
Speaker 1: and that's just how he felt and that's who Dan is.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people are gonna look at that
Speaker 1: and say that's just jail house conversion. I go, well,
Speaker 1: that's probably true, but not with this kid. I do
Speaker 1: this kid, And this is what blowing his mother. His
Speaker 1: mother was devastated by his turn of events. Devastated. This
Speaker 1: is not damn, this was not her day and there
Speaker 1: was nothing leading up into it until he took off
Speaker 1: with Rachel. But from the time he left in that truck,
Speaker 1: I kick you not. I will say this in front
Speaker 1: of a judge. His life changed. I'm not saying how
Speaker 1: it happened, but I believe but the only work of
Speaker 1: the only one thing I did see, and I will
Speaker 1: say this, the one continual presence in his life from
Speaker 1: that point on was Rachel Daven did two leads in
Speaker 1: the play together at Dark Side of Play, So you're
Speaker 1: going to tell me? And I told her in our
Speaker 1: little talk, I said, you had no idea. It was
Speaker 1: going why no idea? You had no idea? And in
Speaker 1: three sentences later she says what she said now, And
Speaker 1: I think she knew what she said about Dan being
Speaker 1: over her shoulder when she sent the email to you know,
Speaker 1: she said that email at eleven fifteen, the night that
Speaker 1: Julie was murdered. Julie was murdered between twelve and twelve
Speaker 1: oh four, uh, you know, early morning on Saturday or
Speaker 1: the turn of midnight that Friday night. So within forty
Speaker 1: five minutes of Julie being murdered, Rachel coincidentally sends that
Speaker 1: Facebook message to Julie, which Daniel's defense attorney has said
Speaker 1: that THEE believes Rachel sent that message as her potential
Speaker 1: alibi saying, I can't wait to see you after my
Speaker 1: wedding and we'll catch up and we'll enjoy the summer
Speaker 1: sun together by the pool. But then when she told
Speaker 1: me that I haven't told anybody illegal world, I just
Speaker 1: told you about that conversation. I haven't, and I will
Speaker 1: tell you because I know where your heart is and
Speaker 1: what you want to do with this the truth behind us.
Speaker 1: But that says I, I know the Christian side of
Speaker 1: he says, I want Jesse's all the way around, fool.
Speaker 1: Justice needs to be served and to just just it's just,
Speaker 1: it's just not that just staggers me. I go back
Speaker 1: to that that conversation, and I said, well, if he
Speaker 1: was creaty, he was, I new he was behind me
Speaker 1: when I was taking it. I just knew it. I
Speaker 1: don't know how far they've lived from these people, but
Speaker 1: three floors up Sam's apartment was three floors up. That's right,
Speaker 1: that's right. And so see when she gave me that
Speaker 1: piece of information, I it wow. And I don't think
Speaker 1: she's ever said that before to anybody. I think she
Speaker 1: she had because she has told everyone. I had no
Speaker 1: idea who's happening. I had no idea this was going on,
Speaker 1: Why did you feel creeped out from him behind you?
Speaker 1: And if you weren't suspective of it, why would you
Speaker 1: be thinking what would you be thinking that because she
Speaker 1: wasn't because she wasn't creeped out? Exactly, Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 1: that's why that piece of conversation with me has bugged me,
Speaker 1: and the fact that Marianne Buffett would not respond to me.
Speaker 1: But I said, you need to talk to her about this,
Speaker 1: because right that's it sounds to me like after you
Speaker 1: sent her that email saying, do you realize what your
Speaker 1: daughter said in it? Since they shut down all communication
Speaker 1: because they realized now they slipped with you. Ye, And
Speaker 1: I just stayed out of the picture. I talked him
Speaker 1: a couple of years later. I said, things are well,
Speaker 1: I gotta pay. Yeah, we're fine. We're just putting this
Speaker 1: all behind us. I just I stayed away from it
Speaker 1: because it was just too I miss I missed in
Speaker 1: I missed those days. But I'm also a realist because
Speaker 1: there are two families that are missing people in their family,
Speaker 1: and so I had to temper that with that. But
Speaker 1: I'm still not going to give up all my memories
Speaker 1: because I will always have you take them away from me.
Speaker 1: But yes, do people change, Yes they do, Yes, they do.
Speaker 1: And the thing is is there's nothing I can do
Speaker 1: about that. But I'll be dog on if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: sit here and want someone get away with it. No,
Speaker 1: that's just not It's not my job as a law
Speaker 1: I'm not a law person who can go out there
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, I need to do justice. But I
Speaker 1: can do things like sharing this with you because this
Speaker 1: breaks my heart, because you're the only one I've told
Speaker 1: about that conversation, because I know you'll go the right
Speaker 1: direction with this. But I think your listeners need to
Speaker 1: know that Dan was a good man. And I'm not
Speaker 1: ashamed to say that. People. How can you say I
Speaker 1: said because it was I'm not life. I said, I've
Speaker 1: got thousands of people who believe me and trust me,
Speaker 1: and they knew Dan was a good man. Uh, Daniel.
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, Dan, that I've spent two
Speaker 1: and a half years on this case, and I've interviewed
Speaker 1: over three of people, and as a journalist, I can
Speaker 1: say unequivocally that I do believe Daniel Wozniak would have
Speaker 1: never murdered if he had never met Rachel Buffett, and
Speaker 1: I can also share with you that the Costa Masa
Speaker 1: Police are in agreement with me. And I can also
Speaker 1: tell you that while I know you weren't there during
Speaker 1: the trial, one of the most compelling days was when
Speaker 1: Scott Sanders was cross examining Sergeant Ed Everett from the
Speaker 1: Costa Masa Police Department, and it came to the point
Speaker 1: where Scott was asking him how he felt about Rachel Buffett,
Speaker 1: and he basically repeated it back to him, saying, do
Speaker 1: you do you really want to know what I feel
Speaker 1: about Rachel Buffett? And of course Mr Sanders said, yes,
Speaker 1: I do, and he's he very passionately picked up his
Speaker 1: right arm and pointed his finger directly at Daniel Wazniak
Speaker 1: in front of the jurors and said, I believe she
Speaker 1: should be sitting right next to Daniel Wisniak. That's what
Speaker 1: she belongs, and I agree with Hi. Everyone was looking
Speaker 1: at each other and you could hear the gasps of
Speaker 1: the audience. And I remember when he walked by me.
Speaker 1: I said, good for you, Ed, good for you, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he said, do you think I'm going to get fired?
Speaker 1: I said, no, you can't get fired. For telling the truth.
Speaker 1: So how did you feel when you first heard Daniel
Speaker 1: Wozniak confessed to the murders. I was on tour doing
Speaker 1: a show. I was doing Brika Dune down in San
Speaker 1: Diego County with a food sencific light opera, and I
Speaker 1: was doing a role. And all of a sudden, someone said,
Speaker 1: by way, so many things says you've been to Take
Speaker 1: a look at his newspaper headline sent by a friend.
Speaker 1: And I look at it, and I just about every
Speaker 1: once it was wrong, I said, And he said, we
Speaker 1: know that guy. You know that guy? I said, total,
Speaker 1: I say, you know him? And so I shared my
Speaker 1: story with him, and I was devastated. I had two
Speaker 1: more performances to do and that was just just I
Speaker 1: chuck when I saw what had happened and the degree
Speaker 1: that had happened. I knew things were getting dark over there,
Speaker 1: but lord, I had no idea theyver that dark. And
Speaker 1: I had just gotten an email from him there all
Speaker 1: my friends come see me and my fiance and our
Speaker 1: new play. Yeah right, I'm gonna see that dark play.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But I did get an email,
Speaker 1: a mass email, and I just gotten that. But I
Speaker 1: was out on tour. And but when I saw that,
Speaker 1: I was just believe, you know, it's just And then
Speaker 1: when I saw the hideousness of the of it, I
Speaker 1: just went whoa as I get that spelling again. But
Speaker 1: then they showed his picture and I said, and that
Speaker 1: was a comment I made to Sanders. I said, you
Speaker 1: see that picture, said man behind the bars, you know
Speaker 1: it's a raiment. Look at those eyes. That's not that's
Speaker 1: not the dan. I know it's not. And my wife goes,
Speaker 1: you're right after that's the band who said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: where have I been for the last two years? And
Speaker 1: now what have I gotten into? And yeah, you brought
Speaker 1: your family into this. You brought your family into this darkness.
Speaker 1: And he never would have put Tim into something like that.
Speaker 1: He never would have done this to his family. But
Speaker 1: that's how much power does young lady hasn't in my opinion,
Speaker 1: I hope they take that power away from her. I
Speaker 1: hope that justice has done whichever is I hope they
Speaker 1: has done. Yeah, the power of unrequited love. I don't
Speaker 1: think she ever loved him, That's what I'm saying. It's unrequited.
Speaker 1: He loved her, but yeah, unrequited, Yeah, oh, he loved
Speaker 1: her with a passion. He cot ut his own family,
Speaker 1: and she took advantage of that old bloodedly and you
Speaker 1: want to talk about cold blooded. The night he was
Speaker 1: arrested at Tsunami Sushi for at that point bank front,
Speaker 1: because they still thought Sam was their number one suspect
Speaker 1: and they just thought Dan was helping him, hiding him,
Speaker 1: so they went and arrested him as bachelor party at
Speaker 1: Tsunami Sushi, and they went afterwards to go pick up
Speaker 1: Rachel at the Camden Martinique apartments, and by early that morning,
Speaker 1: she was sharing with them that she really didn't love him.
Speaker 1: She wasn't with the top about him, but that was okay.
Speaker 1: He was a terrible lover. He had a small penis.
Speaker 1: She's telling the police, the Costa Mesa police this and
Speaker 1: they were supposed to be married one day later. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know who talks like that about their future husband?
Speaker 1: You see that, and see that's all gets lost and
Speaker 1: that and and and just it gets all lost, and
Speaker 1: the animation of you know that be hitting and all
Speaker 1: this stuff, you know, and and and that should be
Speaker 1: out there, but all this stuff just factored away behind
Speaker 1: the screens. And she took advantage of it. I'm telling
Speaker 1: you that girl had to applaud of this because Dan
Speaker 1: would never had sat down a methodically figured this all out.
Speaker 1: That's just too evil. I'm trying it would have done that.
Speaker 1: But I do believe he's weak, and I think he
Speaker 1: gave in because he loved her so much. I'll do anything,
Speaker 1: and I think it's solely got into this gouta the drugs.
Speaker 1: Gotta that they ran out of money. Well I can't
Speaker 1: just I can't. I kind of I defend my eye
Speaker 1: kind of make money. I gotta do this. There's no
Speaker 1: way that would have been going on, plus with a
Speaker 1: six week rehearsal of play, that those two would that
Speaker 1: gross paths and talked about it. That's just not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I know, the theater world, they have to know what
Speaker 1: each other is doing. So that's I mean all their
Speaker 1: neighbors and all their friends that hung out with them
Speaker 1: all during that time, because they moved in Valentine's Day
Speaker 1: February four, and then the murders took place May two ten,
Speaker 1: so they weren't there for very long. But the friends
Speaker 1: that they did develop their they all shared with me
Speaker 1: that she was in charge She was the one with
Speaker 1: the power. She was the one with the influence. I mean,
Speaker 1: she was on him like White on Rice. If he
Speaker 1: was texting or calling, who was that? Who are you
Speaker 1: talking to? I mean, there was no He had no
Speaker 1: breathing room to plan anything on his own. From what
Speaker 1: I can gather from these interviews I've had, and I
Speaker 1: have a quick little story that I think gives you
Speaker 1: an indication of of just how much power she did
Speaker 1: have over him. One of the parties that they attended
Speaker 1: was something called Taco Tuesdays, and it was a collection
Speaker 1: of all the neighbors and they all got together at
Speaker 1: a friend, Dave Barne, who lived there, and he had
Speaker 1: these parties and they got a little out of hand.
Speaker 1: It was sort of like Caligula, you know. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of booze, a lot of drugs, perhaps even
Speaker 1: partner swapping, who knows. But anyway, and I was told
Speaker 1: there were actually tacos there. So but they one of
Speaker 1: the nights, two people have told me, two witnesses there
Speaker 1: have said that they recall Rachel trying to pump up
Speaker 1: her own influence, her own sort of in a Bravado
Speaker 1: kind of way. Look at look at the control I
Speaker 1: have over him. Watched this and she, you know, instructed
Speaker 1: Daniel that he had to kiss another guy that was
Speaker 1: sitting next to him on the couch or else. She
Speaker 1: wasn't going to go home with him and make love
Speaker 1: to him. And she basically said it loud enough so
Speaker 1: other people watched, and sure enough he went ahead and
Speaker 1: kissed the man and she everybody laughed and basically like
Speaker 1: he was the court jester, and and sure enough she said,
Speaker 1: see see what I can do, See how I control him.
Speaker 1: So I just think that is so insidious, and that
Speaker 1: to me, is such a reflection of just how much
Speaker 1: he would do for her. Yeah, that's a shame because
Speaker 1: as his own fault for me in that week, I
Speaker 1: blame him for that. You know, you know what you're
Speaker 1: growing up, You should have known your principles. But the
Speaker 1: thing is is, I just don't think that he wanted
Speaker 1: to be loved. It's one thing about Dan. He wanted
Speaker 1: to be like he wanted to be loved, and I
Speaker 1: could see that in him. He had that need. His
Speaker 1: mother loved him, his family loved him, but he wanted
Speaker 1: a separate love, something that wasn't family related. And this
Speaker 1: woman had given anything he wanted. I missed the dan
Speaker 1: that was. But it's just like, that's some what life
Speaker 1: deals with you. And the thing is that you're not
Speaker 1: taking my memories away, You're not taking my videos of
Speaker 1: him and my family, You're not taking them of that
Speaker 1: a way, you're not turnishing any of that. Now when
Speaker 1: it comes to the part of what he did, I
Speaker 1: hope you know you know what. I'm sad that happened,
Speaker 1: I said, but I'm not gonna break tie him. He
Speaker 1: will always be my friend. He'll always be like a
Speaker 1: son to me, and I'll always keep that. I mean,
Speaker 1: sons can be bad, sons converder, they do that, But
Speaker 1: do you just room no do that with people than
Speaker 1: your family, you know, and you don't justify what they did.
Speaker 1: So what she did to Marian Wisnia and her family,
Speaker 1: I think Rachel Buffett's involvement in this needs to be
Speaker 1: accounted for because she had her involvement had such a
Speaker 1: huge effect on so many families and so many lives.
Speaker 1: You just to be able to walk away with with
Speaker 1: a smarmie look like well, coffee pot this and that
Speaker 1: isn't that? No, Now you need to be behind ours
Speaker 1: So the world knows. No, you were a part of it.
Speaker 1: You were guilty. That's that's that's fine for me. That
Speaker 1: closes the door for me. Tell our listeners. So few
Speaker 1: people know Marian was Nick didn't come to the trial, Dan,
Speaker 1: Dan didn't want her there. Give our listeners a sense
Speaker 1: of who Marian was Niack is. Oh, I'd be more
Speaker 1: than happy to Marian Wisniak was just a sweetheart. You know,
Speaker 1: she had tempered, you know, if she if she thought
Speaker 1: you were attacking her family or whatever, you know, but
Speaker 1: she she loved her son, she loved him, and she
Speaker 1: was just so upset by all this. I think she
Speaker 1: was upset by the influence of where he went. And
Speaker 1: she would tell me Dan, I don't know where he went,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't where he went, but there
Speaker 1: was such a terrible influence here. I said, I know,
Speaker 1: but you know what, you know, if he did this that,
Speaker 1: then you know he's gotta he's got to be dealt with.
Speaker 1: But he said, it's influence a word. When I said Marian,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, And it got to the point
Speaker 1: to where it was just killing her family. I couldn't
Speaker 1: go out in public, they couldn't handle the phone calls.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know it killed her ouse, but
Speaker 1: I was just the pressure of it was just too much.
Speaker 1: It had embittered her near the end and embittered her
Speaker 1: near the end, and when she wouldn't talk to me anymore,
Speaker 1: she do want to have talked to the public anymore
Speaker 1: because with him gone, she said, look how much more
Speaker 1: of a price I got pay? Now you know what
Speaker 1: is this all about? But Marianne loved her family, she
Speaker 1: loved life, She loved people around her. She was joining around.
Speaker 1: That woman could tell a story tale. She was not local,
Speaker 1: but she wasn't stupid. She's very woman. And uh, but
Speaker 1: I do know she loved her son, and her son
Speaker 1: spoke very highly of her, and I know those two
Speaker 1: differed with each other when he met Rachel and they
Speaker 1: were going to go away, I think there was a
Speaker 1: disagreement about that. But then again, that happened that a
Speaker 1: lot of families, mothers and their sons. But this broke
Speaker 1: her heart. It's just destroyed her. And she wouldn't go
Speaker 1: into public because she wasn't ashamed of her son, which
Speaker 1: is too much. And she was trying to protect her
Speaker 1: husband because she knew he couldn't take it drag him
Speaker 1: into public through this. No, this is too much for him.
Speaker 1: And she was a protector, but this one she could
Speaker 1: I think Marianne couldn't protect herself. This one. She can't
Speaker 1: protect her father, her husband, and her son at the
Speaker 1: same time. It was too much on her, and so
Speaker 1: she she staying with her family that's very close knit. Her,
Speaker 1: his aunt and everything. They're all very close. And it
Speaker 1: just took a toll. I mean, you're in Orange County.
Speaker 1: He's knew a lot of people, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: this happens. You're a mother and father of a vicious murder.
Speaker 1: That was hard for them. That was like night in day.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if I don't know, if
Speaker 1: you know Dan the story of what happened to Darryl.
Speaker 1: But you're right that Marianne couldn't protect her husband either.
Speaker 1: But uh, it really happened based on a fight that
Speaker 1: Mike had with his father. He ended up beating him
Speaker 1: pretty severely, and Marianne was very afraid to bring him
Speaker 1: into the e er because she knew that the police
Speaker 1: would be called. He was beating up so badly, and
Speaker 1: it was the first This is Darryl, Daryl was beating
Speaker 1: up so bad. Daryl was beaten up by his oldest son, Mike,
Speaker 1: who was in town and was drinking so heavily, and
Speaker 1: he got in a fight with his father and beat
Speaker 1: him so severely that he really needed hospital attention. But
Speaker 1: Marianne was petrified to bring him because she knew the
Speaker 1: police would be called based on his injuries. And it
Speaker 1: was the first week of dani his trial, and she
Speaker 1: was so fearful of the publicity and what it would
Speaker 1: do to Daniel that ultimately she didn't take him in
Speaker 1: and he ended up dying a month later, not even
Speaker 1: a month later, it was two weeks later. Actually, what
Speaker 1: did they ever talk about what the fight was about?
Speaker 1: Tim told me the story, told me that he came
Speaker 1: in and his father was so bruised and beaten up
Speaker 1: and with a black eye and could barely talk, and
Speaker 1: they and Maryanne was hysterical and told him that it
Speaker 1: was Mike, and Mike's never allowed back in this house again,
Speaker 1: and it was pretty bad. And no do I know,
Speaker 1: Tim never knew himself what the fight was about, but
Speaker 1: supposedly it didn't take much from Mike's ears on steroids
Speaker 1: with wrestling. He still does pretty heavy duty drugs from
Speaker 1: what I understand, and he was drunk. And I mean,
Speaker 1: poor Mary. I look at the decisions she has to
Speaker 1: make and the choices that she has to make. These
Speaker 1: these are not easy boys that she has had to
Speaker 1: make these choices for. I mean, I know their family,
Speaker 1: and I know that you stand by your family, and
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Even if your son murder someone,
Speaker 1: it's still family, right, you don't abandon them. But but
Speaker 1: I do. My heart aches for Marianne because how much
Speaker 1: can one mother take. And I've never heard of a
Speaker 1: history of violence with Daniel. Never to this day, I've
Speaker 1: never heard. I haven't had people not talk to me
Speaker 1: about a history of violence when he was a kid.
Speaker 1: I mean that to live in a family like that
Speaker 1: with very dysfunctional I mean, I don't know the bottom mind.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that about Darrel. That breaks my
Speaker 1: heart because I love that man, I really did. He
Speaker 1: was just the nicest, sweetest man. I know, awful story, right,
Speaker 1: I loved him. I loved him. I loved him. He
Speaker 1: just but you know what, you never know what lies
Speaker 1: behind the door of a family. I mean, that's just
Speaker 1: so intimate in private, you have no idea. I mean,
Speaker 1: they put on a face in the public, then in
Speaker 1: the background, who knows what's going on. And that's but
Speaker 1: I think it's also the plight of a of a
Speaker 1: working mom. I've heard from people that she tended to
Speaker 1: have to just like write money towards some of their problems.
Speaker 1: When the boys had troubles growing up, she always believed
Speaker 1: their side of things instead of teachers or coaches or
Speaker 1: whoever else was having an issue with them. And and
Speaker 1: as as a single working mother myself, I can appreciate
Speaker 1: that you do have guilt and you do try to
Speaker 1: fix problems as best you can, and because you feel
Speaker 1: like you're not there as much as you should be.
Speaker 1: And so I understand that tendency. I understand what she
Speaker 1: was trying to do, which was keep her family together,
Speaker 1: and um, it's not it's not easy, yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think that's why she didn't go into the public because
Speaker 1: as a good mom, she knew the laundry that that
Speaker 1: family had and she just didn't want to air. It's
Speaker 1: hard enough for her to try to deal with it.
Speaker 1: She's had enough her families now. The world was imploding,
Speaker 1: and it's amazing that she gets up in the morning
Speaker 1: and functions. Well, I hopefully we can put this whole
Speaker 1: thing to rest with with the with the with the trial.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we get a little closure on it second night.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's just a long story that
Speaker 1: never is. I hope through that conversation we're having and
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that are happening all over the place,
Speaker 1: that people kind of get an understanding that the human
Speaker 1: being is one complicated program. I mean, we are so complicated.
Speaker 1: But I have enjoyed talking to you well, thank you, sir,
Speaker 1: and I've enjoyed it as well. And I want to
Speaker 1: end with this last question, which is I know you've
Speaker 1: mentioned the blogger, and I wanted to know what your
Speaker 1: feelings are about her introduction into Daniel's life. Self interest
Speaker 1: not on the level of Rachel Buffett, but I think
Speaker 1: my tendency to listen to her and everything, by the
Speaker 1: time I was able to stand back and look at it,
Speaker 1: I just thought it was more self serving. I gotta
Speaker 1: save this person. I got to be a part of
Speaker 1: this person's life. Maybe I can help them. I've got
Speaker 1: something empty in my life. But to me, it made
Speaker 1: no sense that blogger did not belong in his life.
Speaker 1: I just did not because I did not understand the
Speaker 1: purpose of it. I did not get it to this day.
Speaker 1: I talked on phone, I talked to her and emails.
Speaker 1: I said, I like what you're doing that. I was
Speaker 1: concerned where she was going, and every time she turned
Speaker 1: away from it, I kind of went. She got over
Speaker 1: the talk, but I just didn't see what she wanted out.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if she still talks to him.
Speaker 1: But it got too commercial for me, and they were
Speaker 1: they were talking about stuff that just I went, I'm
Speaker 1: getting lost in all of this where if you know, no,
Speaker 1: I think it was. It's hard to tell. I don't
Speaker 1: be critical, but I just don't. I just didn't see it.
Speaker 1: When she first got into his life, I went, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I should be careful because I thought Dan
Speaker 1: was playing her. I really did. When she started saying
Speaker 1: what she said, I said, I told her point like,
Speaker 1: I said, you'd be careful. I love that boy like that,
Speaker 1: but be careful. I think you remplayed. Do you think
Speaker 1: that she's been a detriment to him or or has
Speaker 1: she helped him? That's hard when to call. That's a
Speaker 1: hard when to call. I if I don't know what
Speaker 1: she expects a Daniel. I mean, what's the point. Daniels
Speaker 1: probably had more psychological reviews. Who knows? I mean, are
Speaker 1: you helping him? I don't know. I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I don't know if she's still
Speaker 1: talking to him in the Clinton, but she visits him
Speaker 1: at San Quintin. But you know what, if she's still
Speaker 1: visiting him, it gives him someone to talk to. If
Speaker 1: something positive comes out of that, been good, I'm happy
Speaker 1: for that. But if she's looking for a relationship beyond
Speaker 1: just a relationship with him, I don't know that. I
Speaker 1: have no idea. But if you've got someone to talk to,
Speaker 1: thank God for that. You know, as long as I'm
Speaker 1: not just buessing each other. She seemed pretty solid there
Speaker 1: for a while that she wasnt gonna take any nonsense.
Speaker 1: But then you know, it's just got to be after
Speaker 1: a while, this this, this this trial was just too tender.
Speaker 1: I had to get away from it after a while.
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with this. I didn't know what was
Speaker 1: truth or not, what was truth or fiction anymore? Between
Speaker 1: those two? Were you telling stories he wanted to hear?
Speaker 1: What's he telling you? What you wanted to hear. I
Speaker 1: couldn't disseminate between it anymore as I just stopped reading
Speaker 1: the blogs, but I do think she has this rescue mentality.
Speaker 1: Maybe I can say to him, you can't. Daniel, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your time and you're honesty and
Speaker 1: your willingness to share all of your insights that really
Speaker 1: really has added to this story. And we're grateful that
Speaker 1: you're willing to come on and talk to us. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for your taking a story. You're involved in
Speaker 1: it for the years you've been involved with it, and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that because I get a feeling, a very
Speaker 1: sincere feeling, and I hope your listeners are listening very carefully.
Speaker 1: But I really feel that you care about this man,
Speaker 1: you care about the people involved, you care about everybody
Speaker 1: that's involved, and you just want the story out there.
Speaker 1: And I like that because there's so many textures, there's
Speaker 1: so many angles to the story, so many levels. You
Speaker 1: just can't take your face value, which is the in print.
Speaker 1: You've got to delve into it like you've been doing,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you've done it. You pull things even
Speaker 1: with me that I had forgotten. You pull them out
Speaker 1: and say Okay, let's talk about this. And I think
Speaker 1: this is a good because people listening can listen to
Speaker 1: the passion of people's voices, listen to the tenor and
Speaker 1: tone of what they're saying, what excites some what doesn't
Speaker 1: excite them, and they make their own decision to what
Speaker 1: they believe. But I like this better than the fact
Speaker 1: that people can hear this conversation. I applaud you with this,
Speaker 1: and I think this is great. And uh, I think
Speaker 1: I'm going to get up my heart radio now and
Speaker 1: listen as a describer. Thank you so much. That means
Speaker 1: a whole lot. You're welcome, Thank you, thank you all
Speaker 1: right Now, next week on Sleuth, we're back to our
Speaker 1: Santa Anna, California courtroom front row seat. As the accessory
Speaker 1: to murder trial of Rachel Buffett comes to a close.
Speaker 1: Both prosecutor Matt Murphy and defense counsel David Medina deliver
Speaker 1: powerful summations to the jury of twelve. Both attorneys are
Speaker 1: hoping to sway the members one way or the other
Speaker 1: for a verdict. Each lawyer desperately hopes lands in their favor.
Speaker 1: How do you think the jury will decide? What do
Speaker 1: you field the verdict will be Stay tuned so you
Speaker 1: don't miss a minute of our exclusive trial coverage, heard
Speaker 1: only here on Sleuth. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth,
Speaker 1: share it with a friend and be sure to leave
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