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Speaker 1: Oh, please be advised, this story contains adult content and

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Speaker 1: graphic language. That woman changed his world out He's an

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Speaker 1: adult and went along with it. But that world changed

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Speaker 1: from when they drove off in that truck. That Dan

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Speaker 1: I would hear again from after that was not the

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Speaker 1: same day, and I knew. Welcome to Sleuth, I'm Linda Sawyer.

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Speaker 1: On this episode, we welcome ordained Minister Daniel hulk Yard,

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Speaker 1: who tells us he's a longtime adviser to Daniel Wozniak.

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Speaker 1: For many years, Daniel Wozniak work for Daniel Hulkyard's appraisal

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Speaker 1: business so daniwasnia could make enough money to date Emily

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Speaker 1: hulk Yard, the pastor's stepdaughter. Daniel Halkyard recounts to Sleuth

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Speaker 1: many fond memories of his time when he directed Dan

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Speaker 1: Wasniak as the lead in many local community theater musicals

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Speaker 1: during his youth. To this day, Daniel Hulkyard refers to

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Speaker 1: Daniel Waznik as his beloved son he shares with us. However,

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Speaker 1: the one lasting painful memory he witnessed as Daniel Wasniak

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Speaker 1: loaded his truck with furniture the hulk Yards had just

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Speaker 1: donated to Daniel and his new girlfriend Rachel Buffett. As

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Speaker 1: Daniel Hulkyard tells us, he watched as the boy he

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Speaker 1: came to love as his son jumped in his truck

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Speaker 1: heading off for his new life, a life Daniel Wozniak

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Speaker 1: was about to share with his future fiance Rachel Buffett

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Speaker 1: by his side. And we'd like to welcome you now,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Holkyard. It's Linda Sawyer from Sleuth. How are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing very well, Thank you, and we're so happy

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Speaker 1: to have you and we look forward to your insights

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Speaker 1: on this case. We know that you at some point

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Speaker 1: had a pretty close relationship with Daniel Wozniak, and as

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Speaker 1: well you got to know Rachel Buffett and her mother

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Speaker 1: Mary Anne, so right from the beginning, How did you

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Speaker 1: first meet Daniel Wozniak. I met Dan It was early

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Speaker 1: two thousand three, two three. I was directing for a

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Speaker 1: company called a Children's Theater, Orange County and Daniel audition

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Speaker 1: and he was very, very likable, very I just was

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Speaker 1: very impressed with him watching him perform, and I was

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Speaker 1: watching his people skills and I really enjoyed head and

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Speaker 1: over the time he worked on the show and he

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Speaker 1: played Von Captain von Trapp, and everybody loved him and

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Speaker 1: just the kids adored him, and he seemed to have

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Speaker 1: a gentle persona about him, and uh so I invited

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Speaker 1: him become the work for me and my appraisal company

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Speaker 1: would shoot photography, shoot pictures of houses and things like

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Speaker 1: that for me. And the needest handwriting. The need is

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Speaker 1: work very thorough and very easy going. Love humor, and

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Speaker 1: uh that's how I teach us with humor. So we

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Speaker 1: got along very well, and that's how we began, you know,

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Speaker 1: That's how we begin our relationship. And were was he

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Speaker 1: involved also in your family life? Because it is my

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Speaker 1: understanding that Emily, your stepdaughter, also had a lot of

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Speaker 1: experience with him and had a friendship with him. They

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Speaker 1: had a friendship with him. And I don't talk much

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Speaker 1: about the family because I kind of keep that personal.

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Speaker 1: That's yet, but I can tell you that much everybody

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Speaker 1: knew that they dated. And I guess I'm just referring

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Speaker 1: to that because obviously you thought well of him enough

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Speaker 1: so that if he was in your stepdaughter's life, it

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Speaker 1: was something that you approved of. The Daniel I knew

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Speaker 1: exactly had it been the Daniel that we would later

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Speaker 1: become No, No, there would be no way. Of course,

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Speaker 1: of course, so during that time before the murders took place,

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Speaker 1: you didn't see any indication of someone that was capable

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Speaker 1: of what we now know he did. No when you

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Speaker 1: look at the contrast from night and day. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen professional experts say, well you should see scientists,

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Speaker 1: so well, let's find you're the expert. But I was

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Speaker 1: with him constantly on day to day basis, and I honestly,

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Speaker 1: in my heart, it's my opinion that that he was fine.

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Speaker 1: I don't think this darkness took over until he left us.

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Speaker 1: And as we talk, I'll tell you how that took place.

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Speaker 1: But that darkness wasn't there. I'm like I said, I

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Speaker 1: can only give you my opinion. But I was in

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Speaker 1: a constant relationship day to day to day to day

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Speaker 1: for those years, and I didn't see it. Now. I

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Speaker 1: knew later on, right near the end of it, what

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Speaker 1: we would say goodbye because he because he moved um

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Speaker 1: me and Rachel. I found out later that the drinking

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Speaker 1: had gotten you know, he was known to the social

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Speaker 1: rank and get crazy, they go out in karaoke, and

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Speaker 1: I was fine with that. But he always told me. However,

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Speaker 1: to your daughter home, I said, you've been or not?

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Speaker 1: So at one point excuse me them and just explained

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Speaker 1: to listeners. At one point he did stay in your

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Speaker 1: home and then left and went and got his own apartment.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? Okay, yes, absolutely, And did

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Speaker 1: he live with did he live with Emily or did

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Speaker 1: he just live on his own? No? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: he really didn't live. He would come and spend big life,

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Speaker 1: might spend the only couch or someone happened. No, he

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Speaker 1: never that would never be allowed the house. He never

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Speaker 1: lived with us, but he was. You would think he

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Speaker 1: was a permanent fixture because it was constantly there because

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Speaker 1: either in the theater or the appraisal business. But you

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Speaker 1: cared enough about him where he was working in your

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Speaker 1: professional and a professional capacity for you, not just in

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Speaker 1: the musical theater end of his life, but also you

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Speaker 1: let him stay when he when it was convenient for him,

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Speaker 1: and you gave him a whole lot of furniture. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's what your wife told me when when he finally

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Speaker 1: did move out on his own. Yeah, well he decided

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Speaker 1: to move on on his own. Um we we we

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Speaker 1: we He said, hey, we're getting ready to move. We

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Speaker 1: got a whole bunch of furniture. So they arrived when

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Speaker 1: that month there was a Sunday or Saturday. But they

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Speaker 1: arrived and she was sleeping in the cab of the truck.

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Speaker 1: So I said, where's where's your better half? That's how

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Speaker 1: we talked. He said, she's sleeping. Who are you referring

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Speaker 1: to that? We're referring to Rachel Buffett. So at this

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Speaker 1: point he is involved with Rachel Buffett. Right. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know much about it. He had told we had met

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Speaker 1: a young lady and he was trying weins me being

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Speaker 1: a minister. I'm a a minister with the National Association

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Speaker 1: of Christian Ministers, and he would ask me about my

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Speaker 1: faith and his his faith and Catholicism. He said, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to talk to her because she

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Speaker 1: has you know, more of It's not it's more of

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Speaker 1: a non Catholicism of faith, he said. And so I

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Speaker 1: just told him, you know, basically, how we talked about it.

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Speaker 1: So he would have conversations about that, and from that

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Speaker 1: I derived that he was getting this relationship with this girl.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know much about her. But Emily would

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Speaker 1: tell me that he was seeing someone else, and I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess they were done with their relationship, so he

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Speaker 1: was seeing someone else. And so I didn't really hear

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Speaker 1: much from Dan after over a couple of weeks, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, they said, we need for address,

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Speaker 1: and I got it for you. Come on by, and

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Speaker 1: that's how we got to that point. So that's how

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Speaker 1: I knew a little bit about Rachel Buffett. And when

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Speaker 1: can you describe for us the first encounter that, the

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Speaker 1: first significant encounter you had with her, and what were

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Speaker 1: your feelings after meeting her hungover? I'm just I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. I just I didn't draw conclusions.

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Speaker 1: But she was. She didn't even when they arrived, she

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Speaker 1: didn't come up to say hi. She waves till the

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Speaker 1: truck was loaded and then came out and was sleepy eyed.

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Speaker 1: Had looked like she taught her just giving you my

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Speaker 1: first impression, my opinion, to look like she had tiedling

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Speaker 1: on and I kind of went. She didn't say much

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Speaker 1: and said thanks. I got back in the car and

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Speaker 1: they took off, and when she was there, Dan was

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Speaker 1: kind of Dan was really black. I've never seen before.

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Speaker 1: He was kind of attentive to her. She moved. One

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Speaker 1: way that his gregariousness with us was he got around

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Speaker 1: my wife. They just they was just like mother's son.

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Speaker 1: They had a great relationship. But when she came in

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Speaker 1: for that first time, I got kind of quiet, kind

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Speaker 1: of reserves, and I couldn't draw any conclusions at that time.

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Speaker 1: I was just happy to help Dan out. We loaded

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Speaker 1: the truck, she ne Gooby got in the truck, and

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Speaker 1: they left. So the only real shift you saw in

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Speaker 1: Daniel's personality was that in this particular case, with this

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Speaker 1: particular woman, he was very attentive and very cognizant of

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Speaker 1: her needs and wants. Yeah, And the reason I say

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Speaker 1: that is we in the theater world, as I say,

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Speaker 1: have context. You're saying something bad about somebody in Orange County,

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Speaker 1: and you may fly out and see a play in

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Speaker 1: New York and of our personal company going, I heard

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Speaker 1: you said this about somebody. I said, this is how close?

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Speaker 1: And that this is I heard for the next seple

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Speaker 1: of years that it was dark because we didn't hear

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Speaker 1: from Dan and friends that we knew in the theater

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Speaker 1: that he knew and my daughter knew, said you can't

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Speaker 1: go there anymore, And I said why, and I said,

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Speaker 1: he says, it's dark. They're hanging around, people with drugs.

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Speaker 1: They're hanging around, and I'm just hearing this is what's

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Speaker 1: being said to me. And I said, I was wondering

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Speaker 1: why I haven't heard from him, and he goes, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's whatever darkness those two have gotten into. It's just

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Speaker 1: not nice. And slowly the friends started to fade away.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get much involved because my daughter wasn't involved,

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Speaker 1: but we had had such a bond that I said,

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Speaker 1: I really want to know what happened to him, and

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Speaker 1: so give you an idea. For the next couple of years,

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Speaker 1: I just kind of watched. I didn't get to see much,

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Speaker 1: but it would drift back in conversations, either in Facebook, email,

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Speaker 1: phone calls. People would slowly start to say there was

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Speaker 1: a darkness forming over there. What that meant, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but they said the friends they hung out were rough,

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Speaker 1: they were into heavy drugs, and that was it. Now

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Speaker 1: again I could be here safe. So based on the

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Speaker 1: fact that the theater community in Orange County is a

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Speaker 1: tight community, you're saying there were sort of eyes and

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Speaker 1: ears that were sharing with you things that they learned

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Speaker 1: or new or saw first hand exactly. And the reason

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Speaker 1: I tell you this is because they got back to

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Speaker 1: me because they said, this is not the Dan you knew.

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Speaker 1: We don't know where this came from, because this it

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Speaker 1: totally took them by surprise. They knew he liked to

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Speaker 1: drink and have a good time, but this darkness that

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Speaker 1: sent in the fact that he was desperate and needed money.

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Speaker 1: Good Heavens, Dan was never at that point in his life,

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Speaker 1: but it just I don't know how the shift came,

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Speaker 1: but I know this, This is my opinion based upon

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Speaker 1: what I physically saw and heard. That woman changed his world.

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Speaker 1: Now he's an adult and went along with it. But

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Speaker 1: that world changed from when they drove off in that truck.

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Speaker 1: The Dan I would hear again from after that was

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Speaker 1: not the same day. And I knew. I understand from

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Speaker 1: some close friends of his that Daniel never really felt

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Speaker 1: that he, for lack of a better word, deserved Rachel.

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Speaker 1: He always felt he loved her, and the love was,

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Speaker 1: from what I am being told, very much a one

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Speaker 1: sided love. Do you think that there is self esteem

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Speaker 1: issues here that perhaps he felt he had to please

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Speaker 1: her in any way possible and would be willing to

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Speaker 1: do whatever it took to please her. In my opinion, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: people are afraid afraid to say that, but I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I knew Dan very well. And when the Orange County

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Speaker 1: papers started reporting, well, you know this is this is

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Speaker 1: the psychopath and this is this isn't that he never

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Speaker 1: could have been that good, I said, Malogny. I said,

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Speaker 1: you've sheltered this woman for too many years. How I said,

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Speaker 1: this woman changed that man's life. Now again, he's an adult,

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Speaker 1: he can make the decision, but that she was. So

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Speaker 1: I had to get permission to go see Dan. And

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in them when you couldn't do

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Speaker 1: anything because I would talk to Dan's mom, Maryanne, and

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Speaker 1: she would tell me, oh, you gotta talk with Rachel

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Speaker 1: because you know, there's just you can't see Dan west Rachel.

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Speaker 1: And MAT's when I found out Rachel was the leader

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Speaker 1: in that group. And you stopped your sentence there, you said,

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Speaker 1: mary Anne, who's Daniel wasnia ext mother for our listeners.

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Speaker 1: Mary Anne said you had to go through Rachel Y. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to visit him. And this was the about

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Speaker 1: the second week in June. So of two thousand ten,

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Speaker 1: and I said I want to visit, and she was, well,

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Speaker 1: you have to talk to Rachel. I said, Rachel, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Rachel love it. Yeah, I said, why do I got

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Speaker 1: to go through her bees? She was the fiance Danny

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Speaker 1: that she called me Danny, and she goes, she's a fiance.

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Speaker 1: You have to talk to her. And there was a

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Speaker 1: tone in Marianne's voice that was hurt. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: a psychologist, but she we would have conversations and she

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Speaker 1: just Marianne always tried to put it that was her,

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Speaker 1: that was her boy, and she didn't like the fact

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Speaker 1: that she didn't even have You got the feeling that

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Speaker 1: this woman what she said as goes and Dan will

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Speaker 1: do it, and Dan will take anyone else out that

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Speaker 1: doesn't listen. That's the Dan. I would say, is it

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Speaker 1: your belief, Dan, that Marianne Wazniak feels the same way

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Speaker 1: about Rachel that you do. We went up because he

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Speaker 1: had an aunt. He had an aunt that was just

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Speaker 1: a hysterical. Dan had an aunt that was wonderful, really

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Speaker 1: close to the family, and they would all get together

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Speaker 1: and we'd go see plays that Dan was in or

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Speaker 1: that I was in, or that I would be directing

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Speaker 1: that Dan was in and that's how close everything was.

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Speaker 1: You could see how close he was to his mother.

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Speaker 1: He was close to her, close to his father. I

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Speaker 1: mean that ended to me, That kind of ended when

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Speaker 1: she came in because she became the focus. So you're saying,

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Speaker 1: once Rachel came into Daniel's life, he distanced himself from

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Speaker 1: his family, and he had at one point he was

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Speaker 1: very close to that family that you're saying. Mary Anne

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Speaker 1: and Darryl used to attend all of Dan's musicals. Mhm, mhm.

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Speaker 1: Right the minute he got into that truck with Rachel

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Speaker 1: Buffett and they left our house with our furniture. The

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Speaker 1: Dan that I knew, who enjoyed life, who enjoyed his family,

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Speaker 1: who loved everything. That just vanished part of my language.

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Speaker 1: But who in the heck is this? So the next

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Speaker 1: time you saw Daniel was nick when he was sitting

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Speaker 1: in Orange County Jail in an orange jumpsuit. Nope, I

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Speaker 1: would see Daniel about. I was doing a play in

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Speaker 1: Long Beach at a at a melodrama club and Dan

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Speaker 1: I was doing a children's show there. And as I

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Speaker 1: was doing the children's show, someone said, uh, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've got an adult program here in the evening, and

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Speaker 1: you must know one of them, Daniel was nick. I said,

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Speaker 1: I'll be a son of a gun. He's in the show.

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Speaker 1: He's doing the show to go. Yeah, he does the

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Speaker 1: nice stuff. We did the daytime stuff and uh, I

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Speaker 1: said great. But they said, but he doesn't like you.

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Speaker 1: And I said, excuse me, They said, he doesn't like you.

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Speaker 1: He said, you'll take over everything, and you can. You'll

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Speaker 1: be controlling and this and this and that and this

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Speaker 1: is the produce. So I said, are you sure you've

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Speaker 1: got the right Dan wasn't. He goes yeah. But then

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Speaker 1: I saw Dan in the parking lot several days later,

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Speaker 1: go hey, Dann, what's going on? And hey, it's good

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Speaker 1: to see it. Yeah, okay, I gotta go by, And

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Speaker 1: I said, I told my wife when I got home,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on here. But then I

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Speaker 1: just let it go because it was too hurtful, and

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Speaker 1: I just said, I I gotta let that go because

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Speaker 1: I remember at that time, I now was hearing that

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Speaker 1: Dan was changing, things were going on, is getting dark,

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Speaker 1: and it seemed very disconnected to me when I saw him.

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Speaker 1: Then the next time I would see him would be

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Speaker 1: in the orange jumpsuit at the men's County jail. So

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Speaker 1: that was just a precursor that things were shifting for Daniel,

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Speaker 1: and he barely gave you the time of day. Well,

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Speaker 1: the play that he did, the last play that he

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Speaker 1: was in with Rachel. Dan never would have done something

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Speaker 1: like that. That was one of the darkest plays I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen, And it's looking at his persona in that production,

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Speaker 1: I went, he would never pick something like that. He's

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Speaker 1: a good, very talented actor, but that that wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been his style. He wouldn't have done that. But it

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Speaker 1: was certainly foreboding for his future, wasn't it. You know,

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Speaker 1: people grow up and they do different things and they

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Speaker 1: get they find different interests. But of all the plays

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Speaker 1: he would do since he's been gone, he come back

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Speaker 1: to that one. It's just I don't know, just I

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Speaker 1: can only base all these observations on my relationship with him.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps it's more indication of her influence over him. Well,

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Speaker 1: the fact that it was going on during that play,

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Speaker 1: I would think. So that's that was the epitome of

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Speaker 1: what I felt. I think when I saw the play

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Speaker 1: they were in and the characters who were playing, and

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Speaker 1: that this thing, this tragedy happened during this I said,

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Speaker 1: don't tell me you don't know anything about what's going on,

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Speaker 1: because that I'm not buying because of Rachel. I know,

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Speaker 1: and the day, and I know there's no way you know,

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Speaker 1: you're getting to something that's getting really tender with me.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's a there's a lot hasn't been

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Speaker 1: discovered yet. I hope it does. Well. Let's talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Because this trial takes place and she is charged, as

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Speaker 1: we know, with three felony accounts of accessory after the fact,

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Speaker 1: if she's convicted, the maximum time she'll she'll spend in

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Speaker 1: prison is three years. In my opinion, it's a shame.

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Speaker 1: Three years would never be close to enough justice for

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Speaker 1: the families based upon what I believe her complicity was.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you believe her complicity was. Give us.

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Speaker 1: I went to see Daniel. I went to see Daniel

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Speaker 1: of the third week in June. Rachel and her mom,

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Speaker 1: Maryanne met me there. We sat and we talked for

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Speaker 1: a while. And first, first of all, I was upset

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Speaker 1: that I had to go through her to get to

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Speaker 1: see my friend, but that I got over asked. Rachel

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Speaker 1: was very You never would have known. I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: my first impressions. You never would have known something as

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Speaker 1: horrific has just happened three weeks Pater that had happened.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was kind of taken back by that

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Speaker 1: at first. Blush. We got to talking and back and

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Speaker 1: forth with free Mom. I had the opinion Mom didn't

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Speaker 1: get the whole picture from Rachel because the conversation didn't

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Speaker 1: make sense. She kept saying that, well, I had no

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Speaker 1: idea this was coming. Yeah, and we just had no

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Speaker 1: ideas this is going on. And I said to myself,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. But then she said something that

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Speaker 1: this is very very important. You need to hear this.

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Speaker 1: When I saw her on Dr Phil go through that

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Speaker 1: whole RANDMA with Dr Phil, Rachel said something to me

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Speaker 1: in front of her mother that I actually emailed her

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Speaker 1: mother back that night and gave her a warning. Rachel

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Speaker 1: told me and no certain terms. You know, the night

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Speaker 1: that that lady was killed, I was on an email

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Speaker 1: to her and I felt so suspicious and scared because

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Speaker 1: Daniel was standing right behind me, and I about dropped

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Speaker 1: my job and I said, you what, Yeah, that was

351
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: so spooky I looked at her mom, and her mom

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Speaker 1: just clambed up real quick. We went to the the

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Speaker 1: talking process, and then I went to see Daniel and

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Speaker 1: we got our eye signals like I'll be back you

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Speaker 1: and I will talk. And when I got home, I

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Speaker 1: I write on that email, I said, mary Anne, and

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Speaker 1: I still have that email. I said, Maryanne, you need

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Speaker 1: to be very cautious of something. Your daughter said something

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Speaker 1: that gives me pause, and I think you need to

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Speaker 1: talk about it with her. And I related to what

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00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 1: I had heard. Never talked to her mother after that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a couple of congenial hides, but they just stopped

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Speaker 1: the communications. They get back and that's when I told

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Speaker 1: my wife. I said, there's more to this story than

365
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Speaker 1: than me. C I I just I can't it doesn't

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Speaker 1: add up to me. And I said, I'm not the

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Speaker 1: police here, but that broke my heart. I was convinced

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Speaker 1: now after that conversation, that this general lady was going

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Speaker 1: to get away with literally murder, and there wasn't much

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Speaker 1: I could do. I mean, and Dan won't give her up.

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Speaker 1: For some reason. Dan is not letting that go. And

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Speaker 1: I and I told Daniel, I looked him right in

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Speaker 1: the eye as a minister and his been. I said,

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Speaker 1: you owe this to God and you owe this to

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Speaker 1: those families. You need to come clean. I can't make

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Speaker 1: you so I know, I said, don't be yes me, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: God knows what happened that night, and he knows who

378
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Speaker 1: was involved. You say you're you say you're saved, you're

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Speaker 1: born again, but you just need to do what's right.

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Speaker 1: And you know we've that's where we left it. But

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Speaker 1: that's what happened on the first visit when Marianne and

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Speaker 1: Buffett and her daughter Rachel Buffett and I spoke for

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Speaker 1: about forty five minutes to an hour before he went

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Speaker 1: into see Dan. So I'd like to go over that

385
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: because it's a lot to just take in. And Daniel,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing all that. So what

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00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: you're saying is, before your first visit into the Men's

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Speaker 1: County Jail to visit Daniel Wazniak, you sat first with

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Speaker 1: mary Ann Buffett and Rachel Buffett, and in that conversation

390
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Speaker 1: Rachel spoke to you about what she said on the

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Speaker 1: Doctor Phil Show. Again, she shared with you what she

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Speaker 1: said on the Doctor Phil Show. No, she wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been on the Doctor Phil Show. By then, remember Dr

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00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: Phil Show would come down the line. Okay, so that's

395
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Speaker 1: what I was confused about. Dr Phil was was soon

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00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: after she was arrested. In No, it's when I saw

397
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Speaker 1: It's when I saw Dr Phil and watch what she said.

398
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: My wife had to control me because I stood up

399
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: and said, but that's not what you said to me

400
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: and your mother. You said you texted her and you

401
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 1: thought dan was right behind you. But now you're telling

402
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: us you had no idea that this man was like this.

403
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: This is what drove me nuts. He convinced everybody. She

404
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: convinced everybody that I had no idea whether you came

405
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: where this came from. I said, nonsense, lady, you know

406
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: exactly where this came from because you were part of it.

407
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't hide something like that. But then

408
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: when she said that little sentence to me, if you

409
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 1: were to suspect, how can you turn around if you

410
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: were suspected Danner creaked out by it? When you saying anything,

411
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Speaker 1: I mean, now you're acting like this came from a surprise.

412
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Speaker 1: I do you see what I'm trying to say. So

413
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Speaker 1: you're saying I want to just I just want to

414
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: reduce it to what I'm hearing, and and to make

415
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: sure that I'm clear on what I'm hearing you're saying.

416
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: On the first visit to meet with your friend Daniel Wazniac,

417
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Speaker 1: when he was sitting in Men's County Jail in Orange County,

418
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,239
Speaker 1: you first sat with Maryanne Buffett and Rachel Buffett, and

419
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: in that conversation, she mentioned to you how she recalls

420
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: sending an email to Julie Kubushi and who was standing

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00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: right behind her watching her send this email was none

422
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: other than Daniel was Niac. Yes, so I got that right,

423
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: and it creeped and yes, and it creeped her out.

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Speaker 1: She said, it's important to get that in there because

425
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: it creeped her out. But yet she has been claimed everyone.

426
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this monster came from. So

427
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: what do you feel like she was trying to tell

428
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 1: you at that moment that they were in it together.

429
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: I think she was trying to puff piece me like

430
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: she did everyone else. Oh, he my friend, He'll listen

431
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: to me. I'm a minister. I'm not stupid. You know.

432
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to thank your side or Dan side.

433
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: I know I feel for the families. I think what

434
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: this was. No, No, that's not what I'm asking what No, Daniel,

435
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: What I'm asking is, what do you believe her intent,

436
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: Rachel Buffett's intent was when she told you that in

437
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: that conversation you had before you went into visit Daniel,

438
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: was she trying to share with you how she was

439
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: involved with Daniel in this planning, you know, And from

440
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: the furthest parts of my mind, I kind of got

441
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: the feeling that was a way for Rachel to say,

442
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: I'm scared. I don't know what to do with this.

443
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: Got it? It seems based on what I'm hearing you say,

444
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: that Rachel was trying to tell you or convince you

445
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: that she was afraid, but yet she knew what was

446
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: going on, She knew what the plan was with him

447
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: standing right behind her. That makes sense, does That's? That's yeah?

448
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: You know, I worked with enough temuchers know that you

449
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: get so deep into the lie you don't know what

450
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: the truth is anymore, and sometimes you'll reach out in

451
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: the weirdest ways to people, And I just felt that

452
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: what was happening, that that was happening in there, but

453
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: that moment was gone. But that moment really obviously had

454
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: an impact on you, because it sounds to me like

455
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 1: you're still haunted by that conversation. And I'd love to

456
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: know more about how you else. Because you said you

457
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: told your wife that night. I don't know if you

458
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: shared it with Mary Ann Wazniak, but I sure would

459
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: love to hear more. I shared it with no one.

460
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: You shared it with no one. I shared it with

461
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: no one. I shared it with my wife because I

462
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: shared everything with her UM. I would definitely not share

463
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: with Marianne. I would not share it with anyone. But

464
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: what it did change me emotionally. It told me that

465
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: she was hiding behind faith and this angered me. She

466
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: was hiding behind faith in her church at Costa Mesa

467
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: UM Calgary Chappell Coast. To myself, they were going to

468
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: hide behind Mom was going to get her to interview

469
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: with them and talk with them, and he'll kind of

470
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: give her guidance and everything. And I said, you can't.

471
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: I told her the same thing until Dan, don't hide

472
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: behind GUD. That ain't gonna happen. Don't do that. I

473
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: tell you you're right now, don't do it. And that's

474
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: what I think when she said that to me. One

475
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: of two things was going on a what I just

476
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: told you, I think she was trying to reach out

477
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: and tell me something or be She was so immersed

478
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: into the lie by then it was just another performance

479
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: and I was just another person in the audience watching it.

480
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: So she thought she poured on and for the last

481
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,959
Speaker 1: number of years I had struggled with both of those points.

482
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: So ironically, in her zeal to quote unquote perform for you,

483
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: as you say, she wanted you to believe that she

484
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: was this innocent right, that she was just a damsel

485
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: in distress, creeped out as she said to you, by

486
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: Dan standing behind her when she sent that message to

487
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 1: Julie on Facebook. But what she accidentally revealed to you

488
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: really was that that piece of information that in fact

489
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: he was standing behind her, which one can conclude meant

490
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: that they were in partnership and they were in cahoots

491
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: with this plan. You know. But I think over the

492
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: years she's learned to mastermind it. Now now she's polished

493
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: her technique and she's got it down to where she

494
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: doesn't even know what the truth is anymore. She's so

495
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: far gone, in my opinion, based upon that encounter I

496
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: had with her, I had the right to say what

497
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: I say, and I really think, in my opinion, based

498
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: upon what I heard and observed from her with her mother,

499
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: she was an integral part of this operation. She she

500
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: took Dan down that dark road, they ran out of money,

501
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: they got into drugs, and then she flipped switches and said,

502
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: we've got to do that, take care of this. And

503
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: I just believe she was part of it. Well, that

504
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: is certainly a lot to take in. And I wanted

505
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: to expand on your thought that you said that she

506
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: was hiding behind her faith. One of an instance that

507
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: I can recall when I when I first met with

508
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: you and your wife. Your wife had said to me

509
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: that during the Doctor Phil episode, when she tries to

510
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: explain away one of her felony charges, which is what

511
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: that she told police the same story about there was

512
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: a third man in a black hat that they last

513
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: saw with Sam and a story quite frankly that Daniel

514
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: ultimately told police was a lie that he made it up,

515
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: but at the time she went with it, and she

516
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: told the same thing to police. And the way she

517
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: was trying to explain that away on Dr Phil was

518
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: she used this coffee pot story. You have a wife,

519
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: right I do a beautiful wife. Thank you. If your

520
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: wife told you that she had just made a cop

521
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: or a pot of coffee and it was in the kitchen,

522
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: and then you didn't see it, but later on somehow

523
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: it became really important whether or not it was there,

524
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: and a cop asked you, um, what was in your

525
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: kitchen and say, oh s bachelor fork and a pot

526
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: of coffee. I trusted him, and I trusted that what

527
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: he said was true, and especially before I thought it

528
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: really mattered, I didn't question it. And then later on

529
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: in question when the police asked me, well, did you

530
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: actually see him? And I said, well, no, no, I didn't.

531
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you back when I had a real

532
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: job before this, UM, I worked as a litigation consultant.

533
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: And that sounded like a really coached response that didn't

534
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: sound like Rachel talking. I want to know what you

535
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: have to say about it, not what you worked out

536
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: in a conference room with your lawyer to say about it.

537
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: And your wife told me that that is a story

538
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: that was coached straight out of the Calvary Church. Can

539
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: you expand on that. I'm not going to label the

540
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: Calvery Church for that one, because I have too much

541
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: respect for Coveray Chapel and no. Well, what I mean

542
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: is when you said to me earlier in this interview

543
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: that she hides behind her faith. It recalls for me

544
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: the conversation I had with your wife when she said

545
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: that that was a very coached story that was told

546
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: to her by the Calgary church. After all, it was

547
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: the Calgary church that raised Rachel Buffett's bail money to

548
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: begin with. Well, the thing, the thing you have to understand.

549
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to be on a lecture here, but

550
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: I think she took everything that those good pastors and

551
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: laid people to talk to her about and twisted it

552
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: to her own being. The thing I mean, she twists everything.

553
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: I mean, she twists it all. And the thing is

554
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: is I don't I will say this day go to

555
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: my death knowing that they did not coach her to

556
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: say that, because that that is wilful, wilful disobedience against

557
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: our respect and our love for God. And they never

558
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: were to coach her. That this woman took something, twisted

559
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: it and used it. I watched her, that was a desperation.

560
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: She got in front of Dr Phil and she fell apart.

561
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: How much these people are hurting and they think that

562
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: I had anything to do with that. It's bringing up

563
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: a lot of pain for me, but I want some

564
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: sort of healing or at least for them to just

565
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: know that I didn't have anything to do with their

566
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: pain before that. Did you make a mistake here anywhere

567
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: along the way? Maybe I made a mistake coming on

568
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: the show. I don't know. She was totally dismantled, and

569
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: she was hesitant, and she was non consoling. It is

570
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm sorry she hurt. In the Bible, there's an expression

571
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: called your heart is hardened. It gets to the point

572
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: to where you don't care quickly. A quick point in

573
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: case is the Pharaoh. And even when you told the

574
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: plagues with Moses, and God said, I will harden his heart,

575
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: I will heart his heart. But yet he'll forgive you again.

576
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: He'll forgive you again. So he gave the Pharaoh a

577
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: lots of times, but then he hurt his heart every time,

578
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: and he said, that's where it's going to be. Well, Daniel, Also,

579
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: we we don't know what she said to Calvary. I

580
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: mean she could have told Calvary, I've trusted my fiance.

581
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: My fiance told me all this and I believed him.

582
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: So how do I express that, How do I share

583
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: that with Dr Phil They never would have told her.

584
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: If they didn't, they would have never gave her that advice.

585
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: I can sit right here you talked. They've never given

586
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: her that type of advice. The church would never have

587
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: put itself in that position, because that was the most

588
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: foolish thing I had ever seen. It was it. I'm

589
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: surprised that there. Of course, there are people gullible enough

590
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: to buy that story. But I'm just sorry that that.

591
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: I defend my church, and uh, you know, I wasn't there.

592
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what she told them, But regardless of

593
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: what they told him, you know, um, that wouldn't have

594
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: been hit because I talked to my Calverygeble pastor and

595
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: he told me, says, that's between her and God. He said,

596
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: that's between her and God because no one's ever going

597
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: to know what happened, he said, and you'll have to

598
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: be accountable, damn for it. And that's what the church

599
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: would have told her, Hunting, you need to tell the truth.

600
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: You need to tell the truth, regardless what happened. The

601
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: truth is at the bottom of all of this. If

602
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: you lie, God knows you applied. You'll deal with him later,

603
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: and that's all the church would have done, Timeter. They

604
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: helped her because they were members of the church, and

605
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: so the church tries to help their own. But for

606
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: the church to give that type of advice, no, And

607
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: that's what also infuriated. People hide by the faith and

608
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: they interpret and turn it around their way. And well,

609
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: I think she's been doing that for a very long time.

610
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: And I think she she's as good as an actress

611
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: as can be if she can convince the fine people

612
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: of Calvary Church that she's innocent, because they raised so

613
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: much money on behalf of her bail from the community

614
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: of in the church. So obviously somewhere along the line,

615
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: the members and the and the and the people that

616
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: run the church were convinced of her innocence. And that

617
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 1: sounds you know, the church is made up of we

618
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: always say in the faith, the church is made up

619
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: of senters. We're just the difference between us is we've

620
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: been saved, as they talk about in the Christian faith,

621
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: but we're still susceptible to being gullible, you know. And

622
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: the thing is that God blessom for helping to raise

623
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: the money. You know, they in their heart, they were

624
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: doing something they felt was right. And if she's wrong

625
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: and it's going to prove to be that way, then

626
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: they're just gonna say, well, we loved her, and we

627
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: did what we were supposed to do. We were supposed

628
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: to help a fellow sister in the church. You know,

629
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: it's not their job to be judge and jury. That's God.

630
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: That's true. I think that's where the cavery Schappell came from.

631
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: That's true. You know what I'm saying. Yes, And I

632
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: know her boyfriend, just as a side note, shows up

633
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: at all the preliminary hearings with proverbs stitched in his shirt.

634
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: Once again, that's an example of how she's learned how

635
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: to hide behind her faith because she certainly she does

636
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: know how to perform or whatever she did. I cannot

637
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: prejudge her from a faith based point of view, because

638
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: that's he hearing God, and he tells us in the Bible,

639
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: don't you be judging people. That's my job. All I

640
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: know is based on what I've seen and my interactions

641
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: with her, is that it's like I told Daniel, you

642
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: walk down the wrong path when you started playing like

643
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: you're saying, even borning and all this so you'd be

644
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: very careful with that because you start mocking God and

645
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: you can have to deal with them eventually. Enough said there,

646
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: So tell me about that as you continue down the road,

647
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: because I know that you met with and you'll fairly often.

648
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: Did you always have to go through Rachel or did

649
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: did anything change with that relationship? Nope? After that first visit,

650
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: I made it very clear to her her mother and Dan,

651
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get anyone's permission to see you.

652
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: And so I applied to the jail and she was history.

653
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: After that, she never came. He would see her, but

654
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: I said, I want nothing to do with it. You'll

655
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: see me when I'm available, and we'll come in and

656
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: see each other. So I, I I meanly came in on

657
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: Saturdays to see him. So you had no interaction with

658
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: her after that one instance, Nope, I was done. You know.

659
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: I tried to help it after that. What she said,

660
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: I see they're backing away from this. I'm saying, I

661
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: hit a nerve. I'm leaving it alone. My focus is

662
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: on my friend Danny. So tell us about your friend

663
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: Dan and your talks with him and your meetings with him.

664
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: Share with us what you learned. During that time about

665
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: your friend. Well, knowing first that when I came in

666
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: everything is monitored. We knew you can't talk about the

667
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: case itself. They don't. They get a little cranky about that.

668
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: And I told Daniel, I said, Daniel, I said, so

669
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: I learned. I learned a circle talk, and what I

670
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: would do. The basic thing was to see a are

671
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: you okay, are you keeping in touch with mom? How's

672
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 1: your how's your heart feeling? And so we we would

673
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: do that. That's the first thing we would do. We

674
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: we have our little meet and greet and we'd say, hey,

675
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: how you're doing a few jokes and he and that's

676
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: just the way he had I had our conversation. So

677
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: I was trying to keep as natural, but I was trying,

678
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: and he was really into the Bible. He had his

679
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: Bible mark up. So I would send him in the

680
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: scripture readings and we would constantly back and forth for

681
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: quite a while, would be sharing letters about the Bible. Letter.

682
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: He's very knowledgeable. He was sharing his people there. But

683
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: then a lot of people say that gel House conversion

684
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: could have been but I felt the answers he was

685
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: getting to me were quite real. However, that being said

686
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: as we got near the end of the visits, because

687
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: then I stopped coming because it's just got to be

688
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: too much. You know, I've got a family to around here.

689
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: Um about that time, I think he met a blogger

690
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,479
Speaker 1: at that time, and that started to get a little

691
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: out of hand for me. And but let me finish

692
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: up with Dan when he talked at great length, and

693
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: one of the themes that would run through this conversation

694
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: when I looked at me and said, you know what

695
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: you gotta do. You do not let Scott Sanderson run

696
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: this trial. And I told Scott to back off. Scott said,

697
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: I don't like you talking to him about the faith.

698
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: I said, them of your business, and man, I said,

699
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: I will talk to that man about what I want.

700
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: And neither you nor the court are gonna tell me

701
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: I can't. And I told you and I said that

702
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: and said, you want to stop my business, go ahead,

703
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: And he said no. He said I've told Scott you

704
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: can talk to I said, you dog on right, I

705
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: can talk to you. Because he knew I was. I'm

706
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: very true to my faith. And I said, Dan, I'm

707
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: a sinner. Is the next guy. I said that, you

708
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: know what God loves you, and he still loves you,

709
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: and I said, but you can't be true for him.

710
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: I said, you know in your heart if you owe

711
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: those families and apologies, that's up to you. I cannot

712
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: make you do that. If you did it, he said,

713
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: that's how I had to couch it because I didn't

714
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: want him to get into that, and so he was

715
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: good with that. But the biggest question I was asked,

716
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean, was he conning me during all these visits?

717
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: I said no, and my wife said, really, I said,

718
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: he still was this the day I told her that,

719
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: here was a comment. I told her the Dan I

720
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: started talking to was the one that left me in

721
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: the moving drunk. He's back and she goes what I said,

722
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: I'm telling you something. He's no longer in that woman's environment,

723
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: and it's gone. But it's too late. The damage is done.

724
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: But this is the Daniel I knew, and people have

725
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: always like, no, this is the same. This is the

726
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: Daniel I knew. And that's why I loved going to

727
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: see him because Dan could never be asked me because

728
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: I always told him, Dan, you can't be sps returning

729
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: to try it. He'd laugh and uh, but no, Linda.

730
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: The transformation was frightening. Not the first couple of business,

731
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: because I see he was still routed by her and

732
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: the whole thing that went on. But as we started

733
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: talking and getting back to who he was, I saw that,

734
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: I saw the death. I loved going there because that

735
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: was the Daniel I honestly believe. I've told several people,

736
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: I said, you don't understand the dam that left and

737
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 1: came back. I'm sorry, I mean, that's a different character.

738
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: He said, well, I said no, even his mom told

739
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: us how he grew up the way it was. I mean,

740
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: there's it changed. But in the jail visits, that was

741
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: the Dan I enjoyed talking to. Because I know my wife,

742
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't waste my time. But I said, Dane, I said,

743
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: he's on it, and so he'd write me. He said,

744
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: my birthday cards on my and he called me Dano.

745
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: That's my nickname with Dan Dano, you know. And I said,

746
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: I said well, and I told her, I said that

747
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: after a while, this blogger got involved, and I just said,

748
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: I don't know where that story was going. And that

749
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: was taken Dan off into just a to a tangent.

750
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: I wasn't quite sure what was going on. And I said,

751
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. So I told Dan, I said,

752
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: and there you're gonna be heading up to Quintin so

753
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: and I said, but I will try to keep up

754
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: with you. I'll try to keep at touch with you.

755
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: And the last time I saw Dan was on a

756
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: jail house documentary or something where he was talking and

757
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: bragging about something and I looked at my wife and said,

758
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: who is that? I said, that's the third Daniel. I

759
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: don't get this. This moved like a commercial Daniel. I

760
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: don't know that's how I called it. This was a

761
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: man with no remorse, and this is who I am.

762
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: And that was basically the last, the last remember I

763
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: had of Dan, but I did. I will say this, Linda,

764
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: for the record, the Dan I knew came back for

765
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: the brief time. I got to talk to him in

766
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: prisident and counsel him and talk to him that Dan

767
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: was back. I just wish you hadn't the left. So

768
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: the documentary that you're referring to, is that the lot

769
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: when he appeared on lock Up on CBC's lock Up

770
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: when he was denying that he was involved in the murders. YEP,

771
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 1: I look here, I said, and she said, oh yeah,

772
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: And my wife said, you still believe it's him. I said, no,

773
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: that's the world. Get a hold of him. But you

774
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: do know, of course, that he did confess to police

775
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: the day after he was arrested that you know he

776
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 1: did he did kill those people. But see, that's the Dan,

777
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: that's the truthful Dan. That's the truth. I'm glad they

778
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: got that out of him because that's who Dan is.

779
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: He's or is being honest. The fact that he didn't

780
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: drag that as I did. I did it. But Dan

781
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: is a victim of of what I call circumstance and

782
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: things around him in his environment. You know, it'll swing

783
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: one way. That they got that out of him right

784
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: away when he was as most vulnerable. That's probably the

785
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: most truthful Dan ever was. I mean, well that was

786
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: also after all he had he had a call with Rachel,

787
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: and on that call, Rachel shared with him that she

788
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: ran into Tim Wazniak and Tim told her that he

789
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: had the gun and the evidence, and and he knew

790
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: that Rachel was bringing that in that basically she was

791
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: going to go to Costa Mesa with that information. That

792
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: was prompted by a friend of hers that was sitting

793
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: right next to her her car, a woman by the

794
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: name of Violet Randolph, because she wasn't going to do

795
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: that on her own, but Violet said, if you don't

796
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: go to the police, I will, And that's when Dan

797
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: called in from jail and said, Okay, I have to

798
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: tell the Coast of Masa police what I heard from

799
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: Tim or else. It looks like I'm covering up everything

800
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: she did. It seems was based on her protecting herself.

801
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: And and so that's one day decides he's going to

802
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: now go in and tell the Coastal Maca police. He said,

803
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, and that's when he

804
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: confessed to the murders. What I want to know is

805
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: what she had on him or what she did to

806
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: him that he still does this day. We're not involver

807
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: that just that defies the Danna even I knew that

808
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: he would do that. The sense that I haven't, the

809
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: sense that I have from the people I've spoken to,

810
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: is that it involves Tim and Tim. Tim's involvement is

811
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: is hinged on Rachel's involvement. So therefore, if he reveals

812
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: Rachel's role as the mastermind or certainly as an accomplice

813
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: in these crimes. Then she will revealed Tim's involvement as well.

814
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: So I think it has to do with him protecting

815
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: his brother. Yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah, through the second party,

816
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: I agree with that. So tell me what was No,

817
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: I've not talked to him since he's got I've not

818
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: talked to him since he's on to Quentin and had

819
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: no communications. And so you felt the visits that you

820
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: had with him, you felt like you reconnected and who

821
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: reappeared was the old Daniel you once knew. Yeah, I,

822
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: to my dying day will say that he was saying

823
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: prayers with other people, he was leading worship services and stuff,

824
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: and that's just how he felt and that's who Dan is.

825
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: But a lot of people are gonna look at that

826
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 1: and say that's just jail house conversion. I go, well,

827
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: that's probably true, but not with this kid. I do

828
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: this kid, And this is what blowing his mother. His

829
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: mother was devastated by his turn of events. Devastated. This

830
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: is not damn, this was not her day and there

831
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: was nothing leading up into it until he took off

832
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: with Rachel. But from the time he left in that truck,

833
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: I kick you not. I will say this in front

834
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: of a judge. His life changed. I'm not saying how

835
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: it happened, but I believe but the only work of

836
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: the only one thing I did see, and I will

837
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: say this, the one continual presence in his life from

838
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: that point on was Rachel Daven did two leads in

839
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: the play together at Dark Side of Play, So you're

840
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: going to tell me? And I told her in our

841
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: little talk, I said, you had no idea. It was

842
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: going why no idea? You had no idea? And in

843
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: three sentences later she says what she said now, And

844
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: I think she knew what she said about Dan being

845
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: over her shoulder when she sent the email to you know,

846
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: she said that email at eleven fifteen, the night that

847
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: Julie was murdered. Julie was murdered between twelve and twelve

848
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: oh four, uh, you know, early morning on Saturday or

849
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 1: the turn of midnight that Friday night. So within forty

850
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: five minutes of Julie being murdered, Rachel coincidentally sends that

851
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: Facebook message to Julie, which Daniel's defense attorney has said

852
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: that THEE believes Rachel sent that message as her potential

853
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: alibi saying, I can't wait to see you after my

854
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: wedding and we'll catch up and we'll enjoy the summer

855
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 1: sun together by the pool. But then when she told

856
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: me that I haven't told anybody illegal world, I just

857
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: told you about that conversation. I haven't, and I will

858
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: tell you because I know where your heart is and

859
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: what you want to do with this the truth behind us.

860
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: But that says I, I know the Christian side of

861
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: he says, I want Jesse's all the way around, fool.

862
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: Justice needs to be served and to just just it's just,

863
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: it's just not that just staggers me. I go back

864
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: to that that conversation, and I said, well, if he

865
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: was creaty, he was, I new he was behind me

866
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: when I was taking it. I just knew it. I

867
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: don't know how far they've lived from these people, but

868
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: three floors up Sam's apartment was three floors up. That's right,

869
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: that's right. And so see when she gave me that

870
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: piece of information, I it wow. And I don't think

871
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: she's ever said that before to anybody. I think she

872
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: she had because she has told everyone. I had no

873
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: idea who's happening. I had no idea this was going on,

874
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: Why did you feel creeped out from him behind you?

875
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: And if you weren't suspective of it, why would you

876
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: be thinking what would you be thinking that because she

877
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: wasn't because she wasn't creeped out? Exactly, Yeah, exactly. And

878
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: that's why that piece of conversation with me has bugged me,

879
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: and the fact that Marianne Buffett would not respond to me.

880
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: But I said, you need to talk to her about this,

881
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 1: because right that's it sounds to me like after you

882
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: sent her that email saying, do you realize what your

883
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: daughter said in it? Since they shut down all communication

884
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: because they realized now they slipped with you. Ye, And

885
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: I just stayed out of the picture. I talked him

886
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: a couple of years later. I said, things are well,

887
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: I gotta pay. Yeah, we're fine. We're just putting this

888
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: all behind us. I just I stayed away from it

889
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: because it was just too I miss I missed in

890
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: I missed those days. But I'm also a realist because

891
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: there are two families that are missing people in their family,

892
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: and so I had to temper that with that. But

893
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: I'm still not going to give up all my memories

894
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: because I will always have you take them away from me.

895
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: But yes, do people change, Yes they do, Yes, they do.

896
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: And the thing is is there's nothing I can do

897
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: about that. But I'll be dog on if I'm gonna

898
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: sit here and want someone get away with it. No,

899
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,479
Speaker 1: that's just not It's not my job as a law

900
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm not a law person who can go out there

901
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, I need to do justice. But I

902
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: can do things like sharing this with you because this

903
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: breaks my heart, because you're the only one I've told

904
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: about that conversation, because I know you'll go the right

905
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: direction with this. But I think your listeners need to

906
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: know that Dan was a good man. And I'm not

907
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: ashamed to say that. People. How can you say I

908
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: said because it was I'm not life. I said, I've

909
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: got thousands of people who believe me and trust me,

910
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: and they knew Dan was a good man. Uh, Daniel.

911
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, Dan, that I've spent two

912
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: and a half years on this case, and I've interviewed

913
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: over three of people, and as a journalist, I can

914
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: say unequivocally that I do believe Daniel Wozniak would have

915
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: never murdered if he had never met Rachel Buffett, and

916
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: I can also share with you that the Costa Masa

917
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: Police are in agreement with me. And I can also

918
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: tell you that while I know you weren't there during

919
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: the trial, one of the most compelling days was when

920
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: Scott Sanders was cross examining Sergeant Ed Everett from the

921
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: Costa Masa Police Department, and it came to the point

922
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: where Scott was asking him how he felt about Rachel Buffett,

923
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: and he basically repeated it back to him, saying, do

924
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: you do you really want to know what I feel

925
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: about Rachel Buffett? And of course Mr Sanders said, yes,

926
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: I do, and he's he very passionately picked up his

927
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: right arm and pointed his finger directly at Daniel Wazniak

928
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: in front of the jurors and said, I believe she

929
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: should be sitting right next to Daniel Wisniak. That's what

930
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: she belongs, and I agree with Hi. Everyone was looking

931
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: at each other and you could hear the gasps of

932
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: the audience. And I remember when he walked by me.

933
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: I said, good for you, Ed, good for you, yeah,

934
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: and he said, do you think I'm going to get fired?

935
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: I said, no, you can't get fired. For telling the truth.

936
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: So how did you feel when you first heard Daniel

937
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 1: Wozniak confessed to the murders. I was on tour doing

938
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: a show. I was doing Brika Dune down in San

939
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: Diego County with a food sencific light opera, and I

940
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: was doing a role. And all of a sudden, someone said,

941
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: by way, so many things says you've been to Take

942
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 1: a look at his newspaper headline sent by a friend.

943
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: And I look at it, and I just about every

944
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: once it was wrong, I said, And he said, we

945
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: know that guy. You know that guy? I said, total,

946
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: I say, you know him? And so I shared my

947
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: story with him, and I was devastated. I had two

948
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: more performances to do and that was just just I

949
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: chuck when I saw what had happened and the degree

950
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: that had happened. I knew things were getting dark over there,

951
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: but lord, I had no idea theyver that dark. And

952
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: I had just gotten an email from him there all

953
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: my friends come see me and my fiance and our

954
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: new play. Yeah right, I'm gonna see that dark play.

955
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But I did get an email,

956
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: a mass email, and I just gotten that. But I

957
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: was out on tour. And but when I saw that,

958
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: I was just believe, you know, it's just And then

959
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: when I saw the hideousness of the of it, I

960
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: just went whoa as I get that spelling again. But

961
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: then they showed his picture and I said, and that

962
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: was a comment I made to Sanders. I said, you

963
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: see that picture, said man behind the bars, you know

964
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: it's a raiment. Look at those eyes. That's not that's

965
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: not the dan. I know it's not. And my wife goes,

966
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: you're right after that's the band who said, oh my god,

967
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: where have I been for the last two years? And

968
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 1: now what have I gotten into? And yeah, you brought

969
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: your family into this. You brought your family into this darkness.

970
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: And he never would have put Tim into something like that.

971
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: He never would have done this to his family. But

972
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: that's how much power does young lady hasn't in my opinion,

973
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: I hope they take that power away from her. I

974
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: hope that justice has done whichever is I hope they

975
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: has done. Yeah, the power of unrequited love. I don't

976
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: think she ever loved him, That's what I'm saying. It's unrequited.

977
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 1: He loved her, but yeah, unrequited, Yeah, oh, he loved

978
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: her with a passion. He cot ut his own family,

979
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: and she took advantage of that old bloodedly and you

980
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: want to talk about cold blooded. The night he was

981
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: arrested at Tsunami Sushi for at that point bank front,

982
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: because they still thought Sam was their number one suspect

983
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: and they just thought Dan was helping him, hiding him,

984
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: so they went and arrested him as bachelor party at

985
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: Tsunami Sushi, and they went afterwards to go pick up

986
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 1: Rachel at the Camden Martinique apartments, and by early that morning,

987
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: she was sharing with them that she really didn't love him.

988
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: She wasn't with the top about him, but that was okay.

989
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: He was a terrible lover. He had a small penis.

990
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: She's telling the police, the Costa Mesa police this and

991
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: they were supposed to be married one day later. I mean,

992
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: I know who talks like that about their future husband?

993
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: You see that, and see that's all gets lost and

994
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: that and and and just it gets all lost, and

995
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: the animation of you know that be hitting and all

996
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: this stuff, you know, and and and that should be

997
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: out there, but all this stuff just factored away behind

998
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: the screens. And she took advantage of it. I'm telling

999
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: you that girl had to applaud of this because Dan

1000
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: would never had sat down a methodically figured this all out.

1001
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: That's just too evil. I'm trying it would have done that.

1002
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: But I do believe he's weak, and I think he

1003
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: gave in because he loved her so much. I'll do anything,

1004
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: and I think it's solely got into this gouta the drugs.

1005
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,959
Speaker 1: Gotta that they ran out of money. Well I can't

1006
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: just I can't. I kind of I defend my eye

1007
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: kind of make money. I gotta do this. There's no

1008
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: way that would have been going on, plus with a

1009
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: six week rehearsal of play, that those two would that

1010
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 1: gross paths and talked about it. That's just not gonna happen.

1011
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: I know, the theater world, they have to know what

1012
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: each other is doing. So that's I mean all their

1013
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: neighbors and all their friends that hung out with them

1014
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: all during that time, because they moved in Valentine's Day

1015
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: February four, and then the murders took place May two ten,

1016
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: so they weren't there for very long. But the friends

1017
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: that they did develop their they all shared with me

1018
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: that she was in charge She was the one with

1019
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: the power. She was the one with the influence. I mean,

1020
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: she was on him like White on Rice. If he

1021
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: was texting or calling, who was that? Who are you

1022
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: talking to? I mean, there was no He had no

1023
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: breathing room to plan anything on his own. From what

1024
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: I can gather from these interviews I've had, and I

1025
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: have a quick little story that I think gives you

1026
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: an indication of of just how much power she did

1027
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: have over him. One of the parties that they attended

1028
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 1: was something called Taco Tuesdays, and it was a collection

1029
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: of all the neighbors and they all got together at

1030
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: a friend, Dave Barne, who lived there, and he had

1031
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: these parties and they got a little out of hand.

1032
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: It was sort of like Caligula, you know. There was

1033
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: a lot of booze, a lot of drugs, perhaps even

1034
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: partner swapping, who knows. But anyway, and I was told

1035
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: there were actually tacos there. So but they one of

1036
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: the nights, two people have told me, two witnesses there

1037
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: have said that they recall Rachel trying to pump up

1038
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: her own influence, her own sort of in a Bravado

1039
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: kind of way. Look at look at the control I

1040
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: have over him. Watched this and she, you know, instructed

1041
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: Daniel that he had to kiss another guy that was

1042
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: sitting next to him on the couch or else. She

1043
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: wasn't going to go home with him and make love

1044
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: to him. And she basically said it loud enough so

1045
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: other people watched, and sure enough he went ahead and

1046
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: kissed the man and she everybody laughed and basically like

1047
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: he was the court jester, and and sure enough she said,

1048
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: see see what I can do, See how I control him.

1049
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: So I just think that is so insidious, and that

1050
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: to me, is such a reflection of just how much

1051
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: he would do for her. Yeah, that's a shame because

1052
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: as his own fault for me in that week, I

1053
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 1: blame him for that. You know, you know what you're

1054
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: growing up, You should have known your principles. But the

1055
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: thing is is, I just don't think that he wanted

1056
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 1: to be loved. It's one thing about Dan. He wanted

1057
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: to be like he wanted to be loved, and I

1058
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: could see that in him. He had that need. His

1059
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: mother loved him, his family loved him, but he wanted

1060
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: a separate love, something that wasn't family related. And this

1061
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: woman had given anything he wanted. I missed the dan

1062
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: that was. But it's just like, that's some what life

1063
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: deals with you. And the thing is that you're not

1064
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: taking my memories away, You're not taking my videos of

1065
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: him and my family, You're not taking them of that

1066
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: a way, you're not turnishing any of that. Now when

1067
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: it comes to the part of what he did, I

1068
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: hope you know you know what. I'm sad that happened,

1069
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: I said, but I'm not gonna break tie him. He

1070
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: will always be my friend. He'll always be like a

1071
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: son to me, and I'll always keep that. I mean,

1072
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: sons can be bad, sons converder, they do that, But

1073
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: do you just room no do that with people than

1074
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: your family, you know, and you don't justify what they did.

1075
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: So what she did to Marian Wisnia and her family,

1076
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: I think Rachel Buffett's involvement in this needs to be

1077
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: accounted for because she had her involvement had such a

1078
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: huge effect on so many families and so many lives.

1079
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: You just to be able to walk away with with

1080
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: a smarmie look like well, coffee pot this and that

1081
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: isn't that? No, Now you need to be behind ours

1082
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: So the world knows. No, you were a part of it.

1083
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: You were guilty. That's that's that's fine for me. That

1084
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: closes the door for me. Tell our listeners. So few

1085
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: people know Marian was Nick didn't come to the trial, Dan,

1086
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 1: Dan didn't want her there. Give our listeners a sense

1087
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: of who Marian was Niack is. Oh, I'd be more

1088
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: than happy to Marian Wisniak was just a sweetheart. You know,

1089
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: she had tempered, you know, if she if she thought

1090
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: you were attacking her family or whatever, you know, but

1091
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: she she loved her son, she loved him, and she

1092
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: was just so upset by all this. I think she

1093
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: was upset by the influence of where he went. And

1094
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: she would tell me Dan, I don't know where he went,

1095
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't where he went, but there

1096
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: was such a terrible influence here. I said, I know,

1097
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: but you know what, you know, if he did this that,

1098
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: then you know he's gotta he's got to be dealt with.

1099
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: But he said, it's influence a word. When I said Marian,

1100
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: I said, you know, And it got to the point

1101
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: to where it was just killing her family. I couldn't

1102
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: go out in public, they couldn't handle the phone calls.

1103
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know it killed her ouse, but

1104
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: I was just the pressure of it was just too much.

1105
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: It had embittered her near the end and embittered her

1106
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: near the end, and when she wouldn't talk to me anymore,

1107
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: she do want to have talked to the public anymore

1108
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: because with him gone, she said, look how much more

1109
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: of a price I got pay? Now you know what

1110
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: is this all about? But Marianne loved her family, she

1111
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: loved life, She loved people around her. She was joining around.

1112
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: That woman could tell a story tale. She was not local,

1113
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: but she wasn't stupid. She's very woman. And uh, but

1114
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: I do know she loved her son, and her son

1115
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: spoke very highly of her, and I know those two

1116
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: differed with each other when he met Rachel and they

1117
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: were going to go away, I think there was a

1118
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: disagreement about that. But then again, that happened that a

1119
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:18,439
Speaker 1: lot of families, mothers and their sons. But this broke

1120
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: her heart. It's just destroyed her. And she wouldn't go

1121
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: into public because she wasn't ashamed of her son, which

1122
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: is too much. And she was trying to protect her

1123
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: husband because she knew he couldn't take it drag him

1124
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: into public through this. No, this is too much for him.

1125
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: And she was a protector, but this one she could

1126
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: I think Marianne couldn't protect herself. This one. She can't

1127
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: protect her father, her husband, and her son at the

1128
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: same time. It was too much on her, and so

1129
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: she she staying with her family that's very close knit. Her,

1130
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: his aunt and everything. They're all very close. And it

1131
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: just took a toll. I mean, you're in Orange County.

1132
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: He's knew a lot of people, and all of a sudden,

1133
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: this happens. You're a mother and father of a vicious murder.

1134
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: That was hard for them. That was like night in day.

1135
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if I don't know, if

1136
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: you know Dan the story of what happened to Darryl.

1137
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: But you're right that Marianne couldn't protect her husband either.

1138
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: But uh, it really happened based on a fight that

1139
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: Mike had with his father. He ended up beating him

1140
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: pretty severely, and Marianne was very afraid to bring him

1141
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: into the e er because she knew that the police

1142
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: would be called. He was beating up so badly, and

1143
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: it was the first This is Darryl, Daryl was beating

1144
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: up so bad. Daryl was beaten up by his oldest son, Mike,

1145
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: who was in town and was drinking so heavily, and

1146
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: he got in a fight with his father and beat

1147
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: him so severely that he really needed hospital attention. But

1148
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: Marianne was petrified to bring him because she knew the

1149
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: police would be called based on his injuries. And it

1150
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: was the first week of dani his trial, and she

1151
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: was so fearful of the publicity and what it would

1152
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: do to Daniel that ultimately she didn't take him in

1153
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: and he ended up dying a month later, not even

1154
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: a month later, it was two weeks later. Actually, what

1155
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: did they ever talk about what the fight was about?

1156
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: Tim told me the story, told me that he came

1157
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: in and his father was so bruised and beaten up

1158
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: and with a black eye and could barely talk, and

1159
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: they and Maryanne was hysterical and told him that it

1160
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: was Mike, and Mike's never allowed back in this house again,

1161
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: and it was pretty bad. And no do I know,

1162
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: Tim never knew himself what the fight was about, but

1163
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: supposedly it didn't take much from Mike's ears on steroids

1164
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: with wrestling. He still does pretty heavy duty drugs from

1165
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: what I understand, and he was drunk. And I mean,

1166
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: poor Mary. I look at the decisions she has to

1167
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: make and the choices that she has to make. These

1168
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: these are not easy boys that she has had to

1169
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: make these choices for. I mean, I know their family,

1170
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: and I know that you stand by your family, and

1171
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Even if your son murder someone,

1172
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: it's still family, right, you don't abandon them. But but

1173
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: I do. My heart aches for Marianne because how much

1174
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: can one mother take. And I've never heard of a

1175
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: history of violence with Daniel. Never to this day, I've

1176
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: never heard. I haven't had people not talk to me

1177
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: about a history of violence when he was a kid.

1178
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean that to live in a family like that

1179
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: with very dysfunctional I mean, I don't know the bottom mind.

1180
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that about Darrel. That breaks my

1181
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: heart because I love that man, I really did. He

1182
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: was just the nicest, sweetest man. I know, awful story, right,

1183
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: I loved him. I loved him. I loved him. He

1184
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: just but you know what, you never know what lies

1185
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: behind the door of a family. I mean, that's just

1186
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: so intimate in private, you have no idea. I mean,

1187
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: they put on a face in the public, then in

1188
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: the background, who knows what's going on. And that's but

1189
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I think it's also the plight of a of a

1190
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: working mom. I've heard from people that she tended to

1191
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: have to just like write money towards some of their problems.

1192
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: When the boys had troubles growing up, she always believed

1193
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: their side of things instead of teachers or coaches or

1194
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: whoever else was having an issue with them. And and

1195
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: as as a single working mother myself, I can appreciate

1196
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: that you do have guilt and you do try to

1197
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: fix problems as best you can, and because you feel

1198
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: like you're not there as much as you should be.

1199
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: And so I understand that tendency. I understand what she

1200
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: was trying to do, which was keep her family together,

1201
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: and um, it's not it's not easy, yeah, And I

1202
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: think that's why she didn't go into the public because

1203
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: as a good mom, she knew the laundry that that

1204
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: family had and she just didn't want to air. It's

1205
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: hard enough for her to try to deal with it.

1206
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: She's had enough her families now. The world was imploding,

1207
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: and it's amazing that she gets up in the morning

1208
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: and functions. Well, I hopefully we can put this whole

1209
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: thing to rest with with the with the with the trial.

1210
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: Hopefully we get a little closure on it second night.

1211
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's just a long story that

1212
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: never is. I hope through that conversation we're having and

1213
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that are happening all over the place,

1214
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: that people kind of get an understanding that the human

1215
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: being is one complicated program. I mean, we are so complicated.

1216
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: But I have enjoyed talking to you well, thank you, sir,

1217
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: and I've enjoyed it as well. And I want to

1218
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: end with this last question, which is I know you've

1219
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: mentioned the blogger, and I wanted to know what your

1220
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: feelings are about her introduction into Daniel's life. Self interest

1221
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: not on the level of Rachel Buffett, but I think

1222
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: my tendency to listen to her and everything, by the

1223
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: time I was able to stand back and look at it,

1224
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 1: I just thought it was more self serving. I gotta

1225
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: save this person. I got to be a part of

1226
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: this person's life. Maybe I can help them. I've got

1227
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: something empty in my life. But to me, it made

1228
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: no sense that blogger did not belong in his life.

1229
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: I just did not because I did not understand the

1230
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: purpose of it. I did not get it to this day.

1231
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: I talked on phone, I talked to her and emails.

1232
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: I said, I like what you're doing that. I was

1233
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: concerned where she was going, and every time she turned

1234
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: away from it, I kind of went. She got over

1235
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: the talk, but I just didn't see what she wanted out.

1236
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know if she still talks to him.

1237
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: But it got too commercial for me, and they were

1238
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: they were talking about stuff that just I went, I'm

1239
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: getting lost in all of this where if you know, no,

1240
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: I think it was. It's hard to tell. I don't

1241
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: be critical, but I just don't. I just didn't see it.

1242
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: When she first got into his life, I went, I

1243
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I should be careful because I thought Dan

1244
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: was playing her. I really did. When she started saying

1245
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: what she said, I said, I told her point like,

1246
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: I said, you'd be careful. I love that boy like that,

1247
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: but be careful. I think you remplayed. Do you think

1248
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: that she's been a detriment to him or or has

1249
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: she helped him? That's hard when to call. That's a

1250
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: hard when to call. I if I don't know what

1251
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: she expects a Daniel. I mean, what's the point. Daniels

1252
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: probably had more psychological reviews. Who knows? I mean, are

1253
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,040
Speaker 1: you helping him? I don't know. I just don't know.

1254
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I don't know if she's still

1255
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: talking to him in the Clinton, but she visits him

1256
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: at San Quintin. But you know what, if she's still

1257
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: visiting him, it gives him someone to talk to. If

1258
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,479
Speaker 1: something positive comes out of that, been good, I'm happy

1259
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: for that. But if she's looking for a relationship beyond

1260
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 1: just a relationship with him, I don't know that. I

1261
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: have no idea. But if you've got someone to talk to,

1262
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: thank God for that. You know, as long as I'm

1263
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: not just buessing each other. She seemed pretty solid there

1264
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: for a while that she wasnt gonna take any nonsense.

1265
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: But then you know, it's just got to be after

1266
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: a while, this this, this this trial was just too tender.

1267
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: I had to get away from it after a while.

1268
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with this. I didn't know what was

1269
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: truth or not, what was truth or fiction anymore? Between

1270
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: those two? Were you telling stories he wanted to hear?

1271
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: What's he telling you? What you wanted to hear. I

1272
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: couldn't disseminate between it anymore as I just stopped reading

1273
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: the blogs, but I do think she has this rescue mentality.

1274
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I can say to him, you can't. Daniel, thank

1275
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: you so much for your time and you're honesty and

1276
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: your willingness to share all of your insights that really

1277
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: really has added to this story. And we're grateful that

1278
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 1: you're willing to come on and talk to us. Well,

1279
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for your taking a story. You're involved in

1280
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: it for the years you've been involved with it, and

1281
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: I appreciate that because I get a feeling, a very

1282
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: sincere feeling, and I hope your listeners are listening very carefully.

1283
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: But I really feel that you care about this man,

1284
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 1: you care about the people involved, you care about everybody

1285
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: that's involved, and you just want the story out there.

1286
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: And I like that because there's so many textures, there's

1287
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: so many angles to the story, so many levels. You

1288
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: just can't take your face value, which is the in print.

1289
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: You've got to delve into it like you've been doing,

1290
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you've done it. You pull things even

1291
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: with me that I had forgotten. You pull them out

1292
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: and say Okay, let's talk about this. And I think

1293
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: this is a good because people listening can listen to

1294
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: the passion of people's voices, listen to the tenor and

1295
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: tone of what they're saying, what excites some what doesn't

1296
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 1: excite them, and they make their own decision to what

1297
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: they believe. But I like this better than the fact

1298
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 1: that people can hear this conversation. I applaud you with this,

1299
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: and I think this is great. And uh, I think

1300
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to get up my heart radio now and

1301
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: listen as a describer. Thank you so much. That means

1302
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: a whole lot. You're welcome, Thank you, thank you all

1303
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: right Now, next week on Sleuth, we're back to our

1304
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: Santa Anna, California courtroom front row seat. As the accessory

1305
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: to murder trial of Rachel Buffett comes to a close.

1306
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: Both prosecutor Matt Murphy and defense counsel David Medina deliver

1307
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: powerful summations to the jury of twelve. Both attorneys are

1308
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: hoping to sway the members one way or the other

1309
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: for a verdict. Each lawyer desperately hopes lands in their favor.

1310
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: How do you think the jury will decide? What do

1311
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: you field the verdict will be Stay tuned so you

1312
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: don't miss a minute of our exclusive trial coverage, heard

1313
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: only here on Sleuth. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth,

1314
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: share it with a friend and be sure to leave

1315
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: a rating or review. Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio,

1316
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you

1317
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 1: never miss an episode