1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 3: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. He says. 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 4: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 4: be different. 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 3: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 5: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 5: on him. 11 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 6: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating the people. 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 4: Welcome to elan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 4: It's Tuesday, January seventh. I'm your host, David Poppodopolis. Musk 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 4: takes on the UK is suddenly the front page news 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 4: across the globe. It's getting more heated and frankly kind 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 4: of weirder by the day. Anyone up for a coup 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 4: at ten Downing But it's been brewing for months and 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 4: it seems to signal that in the wake of Donald 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 4: Trump's election and emboldened, Elon Musk is ready to use 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 4: his influence to try to bend politics and policy his 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 4: way across Europe, including in Italy and Germany to discuss 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 4: these developments. We are joined by our regular Danna Hull Hey. 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 4: They're Dana Hey, And we have from London Mark Champion, 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 4: Bloomberg opinion columnist Mark Hellowe him and Alex Wickham, a 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 4: reporter who covers the government and. 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 3: Politics Alex Heloe. Hello, okay. 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 4: And then later on we're gonna get a cameo from 29 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 4: co host Max Chafkin and friend of pod Kurt Wagner 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 4: to talk about some exciting new developments on X. Is 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 4: it time ladies and gentlemen for some good news. Oh 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: and Max has some little Musk mystery. He contends he 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 4: single handily has solved to walk. Humor him and hear 34 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 4: him out. But we start in London with you, Alex. 35 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: Okay. So for those all. 36 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 4: On this side of the pond, who like me, have 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 4: only been half following all this back and forth, bring 38 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 4: us up to speed. Your challenge here is, and start 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 4: at the very beginning, if you could, with the decade 40 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 4: old case of mass rape of young British girls. 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 7: Yes, the Elon Musk circus has arrived in London. This 42 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,839 Speaker 7: all stems really from Elon Musk's fascination. 43 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: It appears with. 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 7: Right wing themes in Britain about Islam which sprung up 45 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 7: over the summer during some basically far right riots in 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 7: this country. That Musk was very critical of the British 47 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 7: government's response, jailing some people responsible for those that disorder. 48 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 3: That sort of set off. 49 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 7: A barrage over the last few months of tweet posts 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 7: by Musk where he just laid into kir Starmer, the 51 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 7: new British Prime Minister, attacking him repeatedly calling for him 52 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 7: to be outsted new elections in Britain. All of this 53 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 7: stuff quite remarkable comments for somebody so close to the 54 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 7: incoming US president. And then that's really picked up over 55 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 7: the last few weeks as el Musk has discovered this 56 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 7: thing that happened in Britain really over the last sort 57 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 7: of twenty years, which is a child sex abuse scandal 58 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 7: which took place in British towns, you know, dating back 59 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 7: two decades, which is something that has been widely known 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 7: about and reported on and investigated in this country, but 61 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 7: that Elil Musk just seems to have learned about and 62 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 7: he appears to be blaming kirst Armer, the Prime Minister, 63 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 7: for his handling of this and not investigating it. Not 64 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 7: causing an inquiry, etc. 65 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 4: So Alex, what was star War's exact role in this? 66 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 4: And let me also ask you this, So before Musk 67 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 4: brought it up again in recent days, had the issue 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: entirely gone away in the UK from a policy in 69 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 4: policy circles? 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 7: It certainly wasn't a major theme of British politics. Put 71 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 7: it that way until Elon Musk started talking about it. 72 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 7: I mean, since Elon Musk has done that, Kirs Starmer 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 7: was previously Britain's chief prosecutor and that's what Musk is 74 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 7: getting at, saying that essentially Starmer didn't prosecute these cases enough. 75 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 7: Now Kios Starmer would say, actually, he was the first 76 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 7: person to prosecute these cases, and you know that he 77 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 7: was braised by a national inquiry into the handling of 78 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 7: child sex abuse. So certainly some of Elon Musk's statements 79 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 7: are extremely arguable, shall we say? But yeah, that has 80 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 7: kind of taken a life of its own after Musk intervened, 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 7: and it has seen right being parties in Britain such 82 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 7: Nigel Farage is Reform Party and the Conservative Party led 83 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 7: by Kemy Baidenok kind of jump on what Musk has 84 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 7: done in order to try and attack Starmer. 85 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we actually have a clip of Cure Starmer 86 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 4: responding to mask, although I believe without naming him. 87 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: Just yesterday, let's listen to that. 88 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 8: We've seen this playbook many times, whipping up of intimidation 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 8: and threats of violence, hoping that the media will amplify it. Now, 90 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 8: Just Phillips does not need me or anybody else to 91 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 8: speak on her behalf. But when the poison of the 92 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 8: far right leads to serious threats to Just Phillips and others, 93 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 8: that in my book, a line has been crossed. But 94 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 8: I enjoy the cut and thrust of politics, the robust 95 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 8: debate that we must have, but that's got to be 96 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 8: based on fat on truth, not on lives, not on 97 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 8: those who were so desperate for attention that they're prepared 98 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 8: to debase themselves and their country. 99 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 9: So, Alex, I have to be honest. I was sort 100 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 9: of off for holiday and like half paid attention to 101 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 9: all of this. And originally my take was, oh, okay, 102 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 9: I get it, like Elon is now basically going to 103 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 9: try to get Farage elected, But then he also turned 104 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 9: on Farage and thinks that Farage isn't the person to 105 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 9: lead reform. So it's just sort of fascinating to me, 106 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 9: Like he will quibble with the word far right, but 107 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 9: he's taking the most extreme far right position that he 108 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 9: can in terms of like the current possible electoral outcomes. 109 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 9: And I guess my question for you is, like, what 110 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 9: is really driving this? Is it just being a chaos agent? 111 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 6: You know? 112 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 9: Is this sort of part of his anti immigration rhetoric 113 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 9: because the sex scandal involved Muslim men. As far as 114 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 9: I understand, what exactly is his endgame here? Because it 115 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 9: seems to change by the day. 116 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's proving very difficult even for allies of 117 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 7: Donald Trump and Elon Musk in Britain to work out 118 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 7: what the answer that question is. To be completely honest 119 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 7: with you, if you'd ask me a week ago, I 120 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 7: would say Elon Musk poses quite a serious problem to 121 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 7: Keir Starmer because he's the incoming president's right hand man. 122 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 7: He is daily attacking the British government and appears to 123 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 7: be a major risk to US UK relations. 124 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: Then, in a quite. 125 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 7: Remarkable plot twist over the weekend, Elon Musk turned on 126 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 7: Nigel Farage, the sort of right wing populist leader in Britain, 127 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 7: a friend of Donald Trump, somebody who met Elon Musk 128 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 7: at mar Lago just a few weeks ago in December 129 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 7: and appeared to be potentially even receiving a major donation 130 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 7: from Elon Musk in future. And instead, out of pretty 131 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 7: much out of nowhere, Elon Musk turned on Nigel Farrage 132 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 7: because Nigel Farage wouldn't join him in endorsing an extremely 133 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 7: far right British figure who is in prison called Tobby 134 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 7: Robinson's step too far for Nigel Frage, and Franz said, no, 135 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 7: I'm sorry, I can't do that. You know, thanks very much, Elon, 136 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 7: but no thanks. And Elon's response to that, rather than 137 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 7: say you know, okay, well we will agree to disagree, 138 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 7: was to detonate his relationship with Nigel Farrage. So now 139 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 7: you have this kind of extraordinary situation where even the 140 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 7: British populist right is looking at Elon Musk and going, okay, well, 141 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 7: we quite liked him boosting us and talking about us 142 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 7: all the time, and you know, attacking Keir Starmer. But 143 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 7: the problem is if we get too close to him. Now, 144 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 7: clearly that could blow up at any moment, and I 145 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 7: think that's a lesson for Nigel Farrage in Britain, who 146 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 7: is going to be very wary if there is any 147 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 7: attempts at Araproschmont in the coming weeks and months with 148 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 7: Elon Musk, He'll be very wary of getting as close 149 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 7: to him again as he has done previously, and for 150 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 7: fear that it might all blow up again and the 151 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 7: circus carries on. I think if you're if you're a 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 7: right wing leader across Europe, now you're going to be 153 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 7: looking at Elon Musk given his behavior over the last 154 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 7: few days, and be questioning what your strategy should be. 155 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 4: Now, Mark Champion. Mister Musk certainly has the tension of 156 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 4: folks there in London, but is he being successful here 157 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 4: in this campaign he's waging. 158 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: You know, I think the hard part is knowing what 159 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: his campaign is. As Alex was just describing, you know, 160 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: it looked like there was a strong political logic to 161 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: what he was doing and now all of a sudden 162 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: that is kind of blown up and it no longer does. 163 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: And actually some of the actual rhetoric that he's used 164 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: is so bizarre that I think parts of the far right. 165 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: Will will love it. 166 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: And you know, there's a huge fan club for Elon 167 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: Musk here is elsewhere, and they weren't you know, they 168 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: won't changing their minds. But nevertheless, I think, you know, 169 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: as a sort of broad you know, intervention, you know, 170 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: in terms of being politically successful, I don't know. I 171 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: mean in that clip here Sarma mentioned Jess Phillips's government official. 172 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: She's in kind charge of safeguarding young women. She was 173 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: then being accused by Musk of being an apologist for 174 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: rape genocide. An extraordinary language to use about, you know, 175 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: a minister and another government and the thing he was 176 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: accusing her of doing was not ordering an inquiry, and 177 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be aware or to care that 178 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: there was a national inquiry that only finished in twenty 179 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: twenty two, and it's twenty recommendations have not yet been 180 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: put in place. So it's a very bizarre episode. And 181 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: as Alex said, I would agree, I mean, I think 182 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: it will make you know, politicians around Europe think twice, 183 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: especially if like Farage, there are you know, Marine Lapin 184 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: in France. They're trying very hard to you know, shed 185 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: the really far right, the kind of fascist tinge and 186 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: be able to appeal to a bigger audience. 187 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 4: Now Mark, we're gonna come back to the UK. I do, though, 188 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 4: want to briefly segue over to mainland Europe while we're 189 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 4: on this theme, because to your point, he has Elon 190 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 4: Musk been embracing and praising the AfD in Germany. Tell 191 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 4: us a bit about who exactly they are and how 192 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 4: that relationship has been developing. 193 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the AfD is a very kind of complex phenomenon. 194 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: It's doing very well in Germany as Faraj is now 195 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: doing in the UK. It's the second largest party. There 196 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: are elections coming up in February. And on the one hand, 197 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: parts of the party have been identified by the German 198 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: intelligence authorities as extremist people that they have to follow 199 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: because they consider them a threat. Other parts, you know, 200 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: try hard, like Reform and some of the parties La 201 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: Penns Party, they are trying very hard to have a 202 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: more kind of libertarian, you know, more mainstream appeal. And 203 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: he is going to on Thursday actually do a kind 204 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: of Twitter space interview with the leader of the AfD, 205 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: Alice Videll, and that is causing issues, you know, with 206 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: the European Commission, which is saying, you know, this is 207 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: just before an election and there are rules now in place. 208 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: In Europe for the new Digital. 209 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: Rules, which are supposed to create some sort of regulation 210 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: of the kind that you have for TV and other 211 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: media in the lead up to elections. So he's really 212 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: sort of doesn't seem to mind, and it's just plowing 213 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: ahead and almost challenging the Europeans to come after him. 214 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 4: Difficult question to answer. But do you have the sense 215 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 4: that Ewon Musk is acting here, both in Germany and 216 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 4: the UK in Italy for that matter, as an agent 217 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 4: of his new very close ally Donald Trump in all this, 218 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 4: or is he going rogue? 219 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? 220 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to try and analyze the relationship 221 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: between Trump and Musk. I frankly don't fully understand it. 222 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: I can see the benefits to both, you know that 223 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: they each see. But these are both very explosive characters, 224 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: very hard to manage, unmanageable, I would say. And you 225 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: know whether or not there's some kind of coordinated plan here, 226 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's you know, it's fair to 227 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: say that you know they share their kind of distaste 228 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: for the traditional political center, whether it's center right or 229 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: center left in Europe. So you can see how you know, 230 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: promoting the air, not necessarily because you can think they're 231 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: gonna win, but because it will be unsettling for you know, 232 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: for Germany. You know, Trump might look quite like that. 233 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: But as to you know, what kind of knowledge Trump 234 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: has of exactly what Musk is doing, you know, to 235 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: do with Farage or Tommy Robinson in the kind of 236 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, whether he really knows anything about the grooming 237 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: scandal in the UK. 238 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 7: I have no idea, I think as well. I mean, 239 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 7: if you talk to people, whether they're in the Labor Government, 240 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 7: the Conservative opposition, or in Farage's Reform Party over the 241 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 7: last few days, the thing that they keep saying is 242 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 7: that they really seriously doubt whether the relationship between Trump 243 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 7: and Musk can carry on in the current in its 244 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 7: current form. Either will Musk sort of chill out a 245 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 7: bit after the inauguration and stop it? 246 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 4: Stop sort of Alex, Let me tell you from over here, 247 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 4: from righta elon Musk will never chill out. So you 248 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 4: tell all your sources there and policy makers are they 249 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 4: shouldn't count on that. 250 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 7: I'll take that back to optimistic members of the Labor government. 251 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 7: But then the flip side of that is that does 252 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 7: Donald Trump at some point say Okay, this is actually 253 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 7: not helping me because even people of some people now 254 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 7: in Britain who like Donald Trump and support Donald Trump 255 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 7: and previously liked Delond Musk and supported some of the 256 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 7: things that Lord Musk was saying, are now sort of 257 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 7: trying to get the message out there to Trump. Well 258 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 7: that this has gone a bit far and somebody used 259 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 7: to have a word. Now, good luck with that. But 260 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 7: I think that is sort of an interesting dynamic that 261 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 7: will be see interesting to see how it plays out. 262 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 4: Speaking of those in that camp, Nigelfrage responded to Mask 263 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 4: the other day, let's listen to that. 264 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 10: Oh, having him as a supporter is very helpful to 265 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 10: our calls. I mean, goodness me, I mean he's an 266 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 10: absolute hero figure, particularly the young people in this country. 267 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 10: So yes, he's very helpful. Indeed, now look, everyone says, well, 268 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 10: what about his comments on Tommy Robinson. Look, my position 269 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 10: is perfectly clear on that. I never wanted Tommy Robinson 270 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 10: to join I don't want him to join Reformer UK 271 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 10: and he won me. 272 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 4: Okay, Now, Alex, tell us a little bit about this 273 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 4: gentleman Tommy Robinson and who he is and what exactly 274 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 4: his relationship is with Farage and Musk and the others. 275 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 7: So Tommy Robinson is a really fringe figure in far 276 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 7: right British politics. His name isn't even Tommy Robinson. His 277 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 7: real name is Stephen Yaxley Lennon. He goes by the 278 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 7: name Tommy Robinson. He is a man who has a 279 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 7: string of criminal convictions. He's currently in prison for contempt 280 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 7: of court here for defying a court order not to 281 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 7: repeat untrue statements about a Syrian refugee. He has been 282 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 7: in prison previously for various offenses, for mortgage frauds to 283 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 7: sort of more violent acts, and indeed he previously was 284 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 7: in trouble for nearly ruining a t for some men 285 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 7: who were on trial over the grooming scandal by reaching 286 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 7: the contempt of court rules as well. 287 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: He is a. 288 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 7: Person who is way to the right even of Nigel Farrage, 289 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 7: somebody who Nigel Frage has long distanced himself from. Nigel 290 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 7: Frage has refused to have Tommy Robinson as a as 291 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 7: a sort of political ally and has always said that 292 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 7: you know, that's a line he won't cross, seeing Robinson 293 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 7: as beyond the pale. This appears to have passed El 294 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 7: muck By because El Musk started posting a couple of 295 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 7: weeks ago about how Tommy Robinson was a political prisoner 296 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 7: who shouldn't be in prison and he was a you know, 297 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 7: just to speaking the truth, and you know, he was 298 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 7: a victim of a sort of establishment stitch up to 299 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 7: prevent him from saying it how it is. I would 300 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 7: say that that is a very sort of incorrect analysis 301 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 7: of what Tommy Robinson is and has done. And Nigel 302 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 7: Farage has said that he's on a sort of campaign 303 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 7: to educate the American right about who Tommy Robinson is 304 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 7: and sort of say to allies of Donald Trump, well, well, 305 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 7: Tommy Robinson's not your man. He is way, way, way 306 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 7: too extreme and that's not the road you want to 307 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 7: go down, believe me. And you know it will remain 308 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 7: to be seen, but I doubt that Musk will have 309 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 7: much relevance in Britain if he continues to think that 310 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 7: Tommy Robinson's the answer. 311 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 9: So this isn't quite related to the UK in Germany, 312 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 9: but I just saw that Musk tweeted something about Greenland 313 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 9: and he says, if the people of Greenland want to 314 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,479 Speaker 9: be part of America, which I hope they do. They 315 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 9: would be most welcome. So beyond you know, Musk's sort 316 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 9: of roiling the UK and Germany, he does seem to 317 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 9: be sort of on par with Trump in these expansionist 318 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 9: plans and this idea that somehow the United States is 319 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 9: going to acquire Greenland. So I was just wondering, like 320 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 9: from America, it's hard to know, like what is hotter? 321 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 9: Is it like what's happening in the UK, Is it 322 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 9: Germany or is it mainly basically like all of Europe 323 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 9: now kind of reckoning with Musk and his influence with Trump. 324 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say it's wherever he spoke last, you know, 325 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: and you know he's pretty comprehensive and seems to never sleep. 326 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: So you know, it's been particularly you know, roiling in 327 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: the UK in recent days. Before that, it was the 328 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: a f D in Germany that really upset the chancellor 329 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: over there, Olaf Schultz, you know, who sees the a 330 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: f D as a as a you know, an unacceptable 331 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: right wing threat in a country that knows a little 332 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: bit about right wing threats, you know. So I think 333 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: it moves from place to place, and the Danish, you know, 334 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: I saw that the Danish monarch just changed changed the 335 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: you know, the the the insignia for the monarchy in 336 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: order to you know, big up Greenland, Greenland and the Pharaohs, 337 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: you know, just after you know, Donald Trump had you know, 338 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: said that he was still interested in buying Greenland. So yeah, 339 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: he's never dull moment. 340 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 4: Mark Musk obviously attached his wagon to the right horse 341 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 4: here in the US in twenty twenty four. He both 342 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 4: read the electorate the right way and sort of helped 343 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 4: nudge the electorate in the direction he wanted them to go. 344 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 4: Do you sense that he is also making the right 345 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 4: read here in the UK? 346 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: Well, I thought that he was being pretty astute when 347 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: he was, you know, supporting Virage because reform is kind 348 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: of the coming party in the UK. But you know, 349 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: everything that's happened since has made me think that he 350 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: simply doesn't have a clue. Whereas he understands the US 351 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: very well, he doesn't understand the UK. I mean, if 352 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: he would not be you know, pinning himself to Tommy 353 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: Robinson if he did, my opinion has changed, to be honest, 354 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: in the course of a few days. You know, now 355 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: it's just chaos before it seemed to, you know, be 356 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: a malice of forethought. 357 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 4: Mark Alex, thank you so much for joining. If the 358 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 4: Americans do indeed invade Britain, we'll have you guys on 359 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 4: to talk at that point, or if nothing else, Mark 360 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 4: will at least sit down at some point here and 361 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 4: talk through the terms of the purchase of Greenland. 362 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 9: Really great to have you guys on. 363 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: Right, Thank you very much, Thank you very much. 364 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 4: All right, so we are now joined by friend of 365 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 4: pod and social media reporter for US here a Bloomberg, 366 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 4: Kurt Wagner. 367 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: Hello Kurt, Happy new year to you, sir. Hi David, 368 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 3: Happy new year to you and Max. 369 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 4: I believe you're beaming in from Washington, d C. A 370 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 4: snow blanketed Washington, DC. 371 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: Max. Hello there, Hey David. 372 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 4: Okay, So Kurt, it is my understanding that in the 373 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 4: year of our Lord twenty twenty five, X is going 374 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 4: to be a shinier, brighter, happier place. 375 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 3: Tell us all about it. Yeah, you are correct. 376 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 6: You've probably already noticed, how you know, dramatically different X 377 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 6: feels I'm being circa. 378 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: I haven't curred. 379 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 4: I haven't curred, but I believe you it feels dramatically different. 380 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 6: Halfs I'm still working on in my sarcasm in twenty 381 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 6: twenty five, but yes. 382 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 3: I see okay. 383 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 6: Elon Musk did post a couple of days ago at 384 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 6: the end of last week that a tweak is coming 385 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 6: to Ex's algorithm. He says that he wants to promote 386 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 6: quote informational and entertaining content and the goal is to 387 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 6: maximize unregretted user seconds. There's too much negativity being pushed. That's, 388 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 6: you know, getting people to spend time there, but it's 389 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 6: not necessarily leading to unregretted user times. So you know, 390 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 6: in other words, hey, can we make this place feel nicer, 391 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 6: more welcoming, more friendly. I find there's a couple two 392 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 6: things that jump out immediately about this to me as 393 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 6: someone who's covered these social networks for a long time. 394 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 6: The first is that this is not like a crazy idea, 395 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 6: right like meta Facebook. Mark Zuckerberg said this several years ago, like, Hey, 396 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 6: we want to make sure that people spend time here 397 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 6: and they don't walk away feeling like man, I really 398 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 6: wish I hadn't just scrolled on the feed because it's 399 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 6: a bad experience and they don't come back. So that's 400 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 6: not that crazy. The crazy part, as we all know 401 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 6: on this pod, is that the guy saying this is 402 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 6: also the guy who is constantly bringing negativity and attacks 403 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 6: and misinformation and things to the platform, right. 404 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: The king of such posts. Yeah. 405 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 6: So it's like he's sitting here, you know, telling everyone 406 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 6: to be nice and friendly, while he's out sort of 407 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 6: attacking everybody who sort of disagrees with him. Right, So, 408 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 6: I feel like there's a great irony there that did 409 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 6: not go unnoticed by the ex faithful. And you know, 410 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 6: we've heard Elon talk about wanting to change sort of 411 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 6: the makeup of the feed on X on several occasions 412 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 6: now since he took over. You might be able to 413 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 6: tell I'm a little skeptical that this is actually going 414 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 6: to do anything with X, but it is interesting he's 415 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 6: talking about it now. 416 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: Max. 417 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 4: If you were to strip out listeners who walk away, 418 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 4: you know, having feeling like they just had some unregretted 419 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 4: or gave up some unregretted users like this man, we 420 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 4: wouldn't have any listeners at all. 421 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: Okay, now, you know I hate listen. David is still 422 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: a listen as as you and I. 423 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 4: If it's a way is a hatelessen regretted though or 424 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 4: not do you regret it? 425 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 2: Not necessarily? 426 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 4: But so what what what is the Max Chafkin read 427 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 4: on all this? 428 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: I mean, I agree with Kurt. 429 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: I think uh Elon Musk after spending uh the last 430 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 2: year year and a half focusing largely on politics and 431 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: and maybe that's putting it generously at times trolling at times, 432 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: you know, playing the role of of maybe more of 433 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: a political influencer and then at other times playing the 434 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 2: role kind of of an actual political operative. You know 435 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: that that has that has worked really well. As we've 436 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 2: talked on this podcast. He played a big role in 437 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 2: getting President Elect Trump back in office, back in the 438 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 2: White House, and now he has used that to his advantage. 439 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 2: It's it's worked out really well for Elon Ink you 440 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: the not the podcast, but the conglomerate that is all 441 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: of Elon's companies. On the other hand, the impact on 442 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: Twitter has been kind of questionable, right, We've debated it 443 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: a lot, and and like in certain ways Twitter has 444 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: gotten much more influential. But the advertising business like that 445 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 2: which which back you know, way back when when when 446 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 2: Elon was talking to Chris Anderson at the TED conference 447 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: after he bought the company, was that was the main 448 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: business and that has not done well. So I think 449 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: he's he's like Kurt saying, he's he's trying to dial 450 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: it back now that he's achieved basically his political goal. 451 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: You know, Interestingly, we're seeing Mark Zuckerberg go in the 452 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 2: other direction. He's going to make Facebook more like X. 453 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: So there's this kind of weird confluence, and I think 454 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 2: on Zuckerberg it's it's it's the opposite situation, right. He's 455 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: he's sort of the politics sort of got got away 456 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 2: from him a little bit, and he's trying to now 457 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 2: get on Trump's good side by of course, you know, 458 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: making sure there's lots of uh, you know, conservative influencers 459 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: and so on, are are feel safe happy on Facebook 460 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: and so and and business the business impact with him 461 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 2: maybe doesn't matter as much. 462 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 463 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 4: So indeed, Kurt, it appears looking at this news on 464 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 4: this front in the last few days, that that Elon 465 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 4: was a groundbreaker of sorts on this front. 466 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 3: This is the way the world is going. 467 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 6: I think he has definitely made it more acceptable right 468 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 6: to be to come out and say things that a 469 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 6: few years ago I think people would have kind of 470 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 6: skewered Mark Zuckerberg for right, like Elon is the human 471 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 6: bulldozer that has broken down a lot of the expectations 472 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 6: that people have for the CEOs of big social media companies. 473 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 6: And I do think Mark Zuckerberg can benefit from that, right, 474 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 6: Like he can come in and do some of the 475 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 6: stuff that Elon does, maybe at a slightly less dramatic 476 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 6: or extreme version. And you know, Elon takes a lot 477 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 6: of the heat for it because he does it first, 478 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 6: and he does it bigger and more aggressive. So I 479 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 6: think we're seeing zuck kind of take advantage of that 480 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 6: on several fronts, right, I mean, obviously like the idea 481 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 6: of getting red, getting rid of fact checkers as one, 482 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 6: you know, appointing a very like longstanding Republican operative as 483 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 6: the head of global policy, which they did last week, 484 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 6: shown up at mar A Lago to have dinner with 485 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 6: Donald Trump. Like, these are all things that I think 486 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 6: are made easier for Mark Zuckerberg's life because Elon did 487 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 6: them first, or does them first, And so you know, 488 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 6: for that, I think Mark has has Elon to think probably. 489 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: There are a couple other things Kurt hasn't even mentioned, 490 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 2: so Zuckerberg, you know, Elon of course gave a lot 491 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 2: of money to Trump's campaign. Zuckerberg announce is giving a 492 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 2: million bucks to the inauguration, and he even appointed Dana White, 493 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 2: who is the CEO I believe of UFC. You know, 494 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: we talk a lot about cage fighting. Dana White is 495 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 2: going to be on the board of Meta, which I 496 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 2: was really excited about because I thought, Okay, this is 497 00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 2: going to be great news for. 498 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 3: The el simply to prep Zuckerberg for the fight, That's 499 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 3: what I'm saying. 500 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: I thought this was going to be golden for the 501 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: Elon Zuckerberg cage fight. But I'm worried that the the 502 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: sort of anger that the actual desire to fight may 503 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 2: be gone. Like we may the feud between Elon and 504 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg may end shortly. They may not want to fight. 505 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: They may may be more of a tag team situation. 506 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 6: Now that we're laundry listing all the things, I do 507 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 6: think there's another important one that actually just came out 508 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 6: this morning, which is that Mark Zuckerberg said, Hey, we're 509 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 6: going to move Trust in Safety out of California to Texas, 510 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 6: and content moderation, especially in the US, is moving to 511 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 6: Texas because he wants to, you know, eliminate this perception 512 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 6: of bias, that employees in California are too biased apparently 513 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 6: to you know, properly moderate content on Facebook. And so 514 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 6: that feels to me like a very very Elon move obviously, right, 515 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 6: And and Mark Zuckerberg said they're instead of doing fact checkers, 516 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 6: they're going to adopt the community note system and product 517 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 6: that you know is happening over on X, right, and 518 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 6: he even name dropped X. Usually when Meta copies another 519 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 6: product there, like you know, hey, we're doing stories that 520 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 6: thing you're all familiar with from somewhere else, and they 521 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 6: don't ever, you know, give credit to the person they're 522 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 6: stealing from. In this case, he actually even acknowledged that 523 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 6: this is a product over on X. And so it 524 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 6: does feel like, to Max's point, maybe Mark and Elon 525 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 6: are becoming too friendly for this cage fight to actually happens. 526 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 6: That's maybe the biggest downside of this whole thing is 527 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 6: that we're not going to eventually get to see them 528 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 6: throw down. 529 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 4: Dana, do you see Elon following his own script here 530 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 4: and posting overwhelmingly positive, happy, inspirational things on X. 531 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 9: No, you used to post like wonderful pictures of like 532 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 9: the solar system right, and exoplanets and like space like 533 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 9: that was aspirational, but his own content is just so dark. 534 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 9: And so it's with great irony that he's like post 535 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 9: positive things where everything that he's doing with the UK 536 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 9: in Germany has just been terrible, and he rarely posts 537 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 9: anything about Tesla, which is the key to his wealth. 538 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 9: And so I don't know where this positive content is 539 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 9: supposed to come, unless it's like AI generated anime cartoons 540 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 9: or something. 541 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: Elon is very influential, but it's but it's not clearer 542 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 2: to me that that's going to have an impact. 543 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 3: Kurt Wagner. 544 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 4: We say goodbye to you, sir, but let me actually 545 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 4: hold on before we don't me ask you this. Remember 546 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 4: one of my key twenty twenty five predictions is Kurt 547 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 4: Wagner purchase a cyber truck. How are we looking on that, buddy. 548 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 6: I heard about this and have decided to file a 549 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 6: formal HR complaint against you, David, for this attack on 550 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 6: my personality. No, I you know, I'm not planning a 551 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 6: cyber truck this year, but you can bet that when 552 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 6: I do get my cyber truck, whenever that may be, 553 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 6: you're going to be the first person that I come 554 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 6: pick up and so we can go for a ride together. 555 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 3: I just want you to know that excellent. All right, Kurt, 556 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: we'll talk. So thanks, guys. 557 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 5: It's not hard, But. 558 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 10: What do you want to know? 559 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 3: It's about it. 560 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 5: Because it's weird that you can't name three girls. 561 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 3: Oh, I can definitely name him. I'm just not gonna 562 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: because it's funny. The way it makes you feel. 563 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 5: The way it makes you feel is funny that you 564 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 5: can't name three girls. Yeah, okay, that's just funny and 565 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 5: entirely I think it's funny. 566 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: I get it. You just name him, Just name him, 567 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: just name him. I get it. 568 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 5: I'll name Ryan, Vivian Glaine. Huh. 569 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 3: Max helped me out here. What the hell is going on? 570 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know specifically what's going on, but I 571 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 2: do believe that the voice we're here, and the Elon 572 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: like voice, the voice that if you you know, just 573 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: squint your ears a little bit, sounds a little bit 574 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: like Elon. Is a character named Adrian Dittman who if 575 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 2: you are big on X, if you you know, follow 576 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: Elon Musk or follow people who are associates, He's one 577 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: of the big sort of the big cheerleaders one of 578 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 2: these kind of influencers like Cat Turd or Sawyer Merritt 579 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: or a bunch of other characters who you booth familiar 580 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: with if you follow Elon Musk. But the difference here 581 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 2: is that some people on the Internet think that, or 582 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: at least thought, until very recently, that Adrian Dittman was 583 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 2: Elon Musk, which was a very amusing conspiracy theory that 584 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: spent a lot of people, that caused a lot of 585 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: people spend a lot of time trying to determine if 586 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 2: it was true. 587 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 9: There are entire Reddit threads like devoted to this entire topic. 588 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 9: I mean, I personally am willing to believe that Adrian 589 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 9: Ditman could be Elon Musk, in part because the anagram 590 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 9: the anagram of Adrian Dittman. There are several, but one 591 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 9: of them is Martian Bandit. I mean that to me 592 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 9: sounds like they know it, like leads credence to the theory. 593 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 4: Having just listened to that audio for the first time ever, 594 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 4: I mean, how is that second voice not Elon? 595 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that is I guess the main piece of 596 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: evidence in favor of it being Elon Musk, and it's 597 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 2: it's both. It both passes you know, the ear test, 598 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: the sense that like you hear it, it just it 599 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 2: sounds like Elon. And there have also been a handful 600 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: of experts who have purported to do analysis of the 601 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 2: voice showing that it is very close to Elon Musk, 602 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: showing that your ears are not to see if you 603 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 2: it sounds a whole lot like Elon Musk. And then 604 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 2: the other sort of key point of evidence here, and 605 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 2: I use that term loosely, is that Adrian Dittman sure 606 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: says a lot of nice things about Elon Musk. I mean, 607 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 2: you know, such a stop It's like he basically seems 608 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: to be only interested in, you know, talking about Elon 609 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 2: Musk company, talking about what a great guy Elon Musk 610 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: is talking about, you know, and so on. So so 611 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: this is I think this is at least partly a 612 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 2: phenomenon of fandom, that that Elon Musk has these super fans, 613 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: that you have these Elon Musk like characters, as well 614 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 2: as it's it's about the fact that Elon Musk does 615 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: use these alternative He uses alts, you know, social media 616 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 2: accounts that are not his, but that he uses to 617 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 2: like play video games or whatever. So those two things 618 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: going on now. I have to say that over the 619 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 2: last couple of days, there's been a blog post as 620 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: well as a news article that suggests, I don't know, 621 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: pretty convincingly that Adrian Dittman is not, in fact Elon Musk, 622 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 2: and that he's a dude who is German and who 623 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: lives in Fiji and maybe just has like watched so 624 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: many Elon Musk speeches that he has started to talk 625 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 2: like him or something like that. 626 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 4: That he can actually he can do he can totally 627 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 4: imitate the voice perfectly. 628 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 5: Huh. 629 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 2: It may not even be an imitation, right, Maybe they 630 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 2: just sound alike and that's kind of the key to 631 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: his being being a successful influencer. 632 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 3: I guess that's possible. 633 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 4: Okay, So actually turns out I guess I was a 634 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 4: little mistaken. We don't have we have not fully resolved 635 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 4: this matter to be COO. 636 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 3: Well, well, let me ask Dana. 637 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 2: Do you find the report in the Spectator as well 638 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 2: as a blog post that inspired it to be conclusive? 639 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 2: Does it close the case for you? 640 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 3: Not at all? 641 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 7: No, not at all. 642 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 9: Just no. It's like, I mean, that's the thing. It's 643 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 9: like I get sort of upset about, like no one knows, right, Like, 644 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 9: there are lots of theories, but no, I don't find 645 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 9: the Spectator's story to be completely definitive. But then weirdly, 646 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 9: the reporter from the Spectator, she's been restricted for thirty 647 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 9: days and so so that's weird. But I still think 648 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 9: we don't know. I mean, you know, and you have 649 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 9: like running Adrian Dittman's voice through all these simulations, and 650 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 9: I just think it's like it's an Internet rabbit hole 651 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 9: that is endlessly fascinating to me. I guess what I 652 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 9: keep thinking about is the fact that Vivian Elon's child 653 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 9: has said that she thinks that Adrian Dittman is Elon, 654 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 9: and so I give that credence because who would know 655 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 9: better than his own kid? 656 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 4: But I will just say this is, uh, you find 657 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 4: Adrian Dittman, you find Satoshi nakam Knakamoto, and you one 658 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 4: fell swoop, you solve all these mysteries. Chafkin, just solve 659 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 4: them all at once. 660 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, it would be hugely entertaining if it 661 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 2: turned out that Adrian Ditman was Elon Musk, just because like, 662 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 2: who has the time, really, Like, I mean, he's already 663 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 2: he's already, you know, spending so much time tweeting. Imagine 664 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 2: he's got a whole other account that he's I mean, 665 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 2: that would be amazing, just beyond all the other stuff. 666 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna keep reporting this out in weeks and 667 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 4: months and years, frankly years to come. 668 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 3: But I do not disagree. 669 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 9: Have you seen a little bit squad? 670 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 4: Yes, an investigative squad. Well, we'll create an entire team 671 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 4: in the Bloomberg newsroom to investigate this. 672 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 3: Max, Dana, I will see you soon. Thanks, David. 673 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 9: Sounds good. 674 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. 675 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 4: Anna Massa Rakus is our editor, and Rayhan Harmon and 676 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 4: See our senior editor. The idea for this very show 677 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 4: also came from Rayhon White. Maples handles engineering, and Emma 678 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 4: Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The 679 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 4: elon Ink theme is written and performed by take Yasuzawa 680 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 4: and Alex Sudiura. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, 681 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 4: and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A 682 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 4: big thanks as always to our supporters Joel Weber and 683 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 4: Brad Stone. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, 684 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 4: rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. 685 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 4: See you next week.