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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is known. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer,

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Speaker 1: all mission control decond Most importantly, you are you. You

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. You know, I was thinking in our

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Speaker 1: previous episode, are two part episode on Davos in the

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Speaker 1: World Economic Forum. The whole time I was listening back,

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Speaker 1: because we listen back to every episode to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we that we uh said what we meant to say.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking we missed that opportunity to talk about

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Speaker 1: something that we usually mentioned, which is that money as

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Speaker 1: a concept is pretty tricky. When you talk about inequality,

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Speaker 1: you talked about the value of something, you get into

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Speaker 1: some murky, surprisingly philosophical territory really quickly, like there's no

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Speaker 1: real way to differentiate between economic ideology or religious ideology.

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Speaker 1: We have had for how many years now, for a

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Speaker 1: while now, we've had like a standing call for someone

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Speaker 1: to tell us what makes those two things different? Do

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Speaker 1: you guys remember that. Has anybody written into us to

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Speaker 1: give us a good difference yet? No, We've always said

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Speaker 1: they're so We're Yeah, it's just they're so similar. So

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Speaker 1: when we talk about currency, I think one thing that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: In our earlier episode on cash less societies and what

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Speaker 1: that might mean, we all noted that we had been

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Speaker 1: using cash less forms of payment more and more often,

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Speaker 1: and I was interested in Yule's experience. Did you find

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Speaker 1: that increasingly the case during the pandemic? Oh? Sure, I

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Speaker 1: mean it makes me think back to an episode Ben,

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Speaker 1: you and I recorded recently on our other show, Ridiculous

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Speaker 1: History about leper colonies and uh leprosy currency, the idea

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Speaker 1: that that cash could be transmitting disease. And I think

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of businesses that weren't even accepting

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Speaker 1: cash at all during the pandemic, let alone people being

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Speaker 1: stoked about, you know, uh, interchanging bills with others who

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Speaker 1: they don't know if they are carriers of of the

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Speaker 1: virus or not. So absolutely, and it seems like that

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Speaker 1: is certainly um to blame or to credit for the

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Speaker 1: massive spike and say Amazon sales and stock price and

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Speaker 1: Jeff Bezoz you know pocket money and other you know

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Speaker 1: companies like that delivery services, food delivery. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was all cashless. Yeah, And as we talked about in

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Speaker 1: that episode and the other episodes of stuff, they'll want

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Speaker 1: you to know, physical money, especially the bills, the holding money,

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Speaker 1: as they called it back in the day, is filthy.

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Speaker 1: It's got traces of cocaine on it, and like US

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Speaker 1: bills have traces of feces on them. It's just not

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Speaker 1: it's not cleanton stuff. But it does represent this idea

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Speaker 1: of value. And in a way, that's what today's episode

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Speaker 1: is really about. It's about something you may have heard

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Speaker 1: of recently in the news, where you may have heard

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Speaker 1: of as early asen hauled an in f T. What

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Speaker 1: is an n f T? Well, to tell you, we

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Speaker 1: have to do a quick recap of what cryptocurrency is first,

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Speaker 1: So here are the facts. And if you're like me,

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Speaker 1: your head is going to be banging against the wall

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Speaker 1: for much of this episode. But is it is it

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Speaker 1: a physical wall that there's like a blockchain of your

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Speaker 1: head hitting a blockchain? Idea of a wall is a

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Speaker 1: wall coin? No matter what it is, my neck and

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Speaker 1: head are thrusting forward vigorously and multiple times until until

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Speaker 1: I either understand or cease to be awake for a while. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: let's get into cryptocurrency. Tough to understand a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but it's also i've been You've done a great job

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Speaker 1: breaking it down in this episode, so let's just talk

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Speaker 1: about it. A cryptocurrency is a digital currency that could

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Speaker 1: be used to buy anything, any kind of service, any

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Speaker 1: kind of good. Uh, it's just a little different. It

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Speaker 1: uses this thing, an online ledger. It uses cryptography to

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Speaker 1: protect that ledger and to protect transactions and to keep

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Speaker 1: a chain essentially of all of the interactions that that

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Speaker 1: particular piece of currency has gone through, just for the record.

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Speaker 1: In its In its form, cryptocurrency can be used to

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Speaker 1: buy anything. It has to be converted back to US

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Speaker 1: d um. There's some vendors that will accept cryptocurrency, like

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Speaker 1: I think Tesla is talking about accepting cryptocurrency for transactions

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and they're even starting to be

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Speaker 1: crypto a t M machines at like gas stations and stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's starting to be mainstreamed in an interesting way, and

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Speaker 1: it's starting to be mainstreamed in a conversational way. In

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Speaker 1: terms of like you know, people from the FED are

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Speaker 1: talking about it, and they're not crazy about it. No. No,

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Speaker 1: that's a good point. They're not because you know, you'll

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Speaker 1: also see reports of some businesses who have maybe tried

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Speaker 1: to accept stuff in cryptocurrency, but then do primarily to

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Speaker 1: concerns about taxation, they had to like roll that back. Uh.

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Speaker 1: These are unregulated currencies. So for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: this is a an opportunity amid financial chaos. You'll you'll

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Speaker 1: hear about a lot of people who purchased some bitcoin

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Speaker 1: or some doge coin or whatever you want. Let's the

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Speaker 1: general name would be like alt coin, alt coin. They've

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Speaker 1: purchased something like this, and they're not going to Tesla,

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Speaker 1: they're not planning to go to Pizza Future or whatever

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Speaker 1: pizza company we're gonna make up for this episode. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Instead they're buying it, they're holding it, they're going diamond hand. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They're hoping that because there's a lack of regulation here

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Speaker 1: and because the value is is um vulnerable to speculation,

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Speaker 1: that the stuff they paid like, you know, ten dollars

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Speaker 1: for will be worth a hundred dollars at some point

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Speaker 1: and then they'll sell it. Then Uh, it's investing, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's it's an old game and

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Speaker 1: it's made uh, several people quite wealthy, particularly people who

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Speaker 1: invested in bitcoin earlier, which I'm still kicking myself about totally.

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Speaker 1: I mean, super producer Casey Pegram of ridiculous History always

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Speaker 1: laments about how he had a couple of full bitcoins.

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Speaker 1: When we say a bitcoin, we're today talking about a

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Speaker 1: fraction of a bitcoin, because the value of a bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: I believe now is almost sixty dollars for one. So

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Speaker 1: when you're you know, people like you or I are

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Speaker 1: investing in bitcoin, we're buying point o O two bitcoins

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. But then you have some of these

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Speaker 1: alt coins where the value of one it might just

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Speaker 1: be a handful of dollars or a couple of hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing. They're literally hundreds of these different

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Speaker 1: alt coins, like you said, Ben, and they all have

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Speaker 1: cookie names and are tied to different things like things

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Speaker 1: like Polka dot is one or like cashmere. They're they're

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Speaker 1: almost like a joke, how many of them there are? Um?

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Speaker 1: But you're you're right, then it is a speculative, highly

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Speaker 1: wildly speculative. World where people are making and and uh

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Speaker 1: and losing probb fortunes even based on trying to ride

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Speaker 1: the wave or like make bets. But I think the

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Speaker 1: smart move uh, and hopefully what many folks are doing

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Speaker 1: is just trying to hold onto what you have and

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Speaker 1: and see what happens, especially with the main ones like

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Speaker 1: ethereum and Bitcoin. Yeah, casino rules holds for any kind

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Speaker 1: of gambling. Don't walk in there with more than you

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Speaker 1: can afford to lose, considering goodbye money. Right. Uh. We've

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Speaker 1: done episodes touch on numerous aspects of this in the past.

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Speaker 1: Please do check those out. Will probably name drop a

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Speaker 1: few on the way. We also want to recommend some

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Speaker 1: work by our complaint department Jonathan Strickland over on his

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Speaker 1: show Tech Stuff. He has some great primers on the

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Speaker 1: basics of cryptocurrency, the origin of bitcoin, and so on.

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Speaker 1: But for real quick refresher for this before we get

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Speaker 1: into the very strange story, maybe we can talk about

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Speaker 1: pros and cons of of cryptocurrency in general. Right, Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: is a kind of cryptocurrency. It's the one that most

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Speaker 1: people would recognize today. First, it's transparent. Wait, how can

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Speaker 1: it be transparent? You're saying I thought people could be anonymous.

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Speaker 1: They can, but the transactions of every bitcoin itself or

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Speaker 1: every piece of cryptocurrency, they're all stored on this open

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Speaker 1: ledger called a blockchain, and that means that information about

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Speaker 1: those transactions is pretty much available to anyone at any time.

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Speaker 1: And if you have problems with the purposeful vagueness of

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Speaker 1: aspects of the banking system, then that's like, that's a

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Speaker 1: really good thing. It's like you can play now you're

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Speaker 1: playing that um oh, what's the street side scam where

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Speaker 1: you got the three cups and you got the ball

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Speaker 1: or some game shell game, shell game, that's the way.

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Speaker 1: Now you're playing a shell game with transparent cups kind of.

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Speaker 1: So there's there's a big advantage. That's a huge pro

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting because you essentially serve as your own bank,

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Speaker 1: like you're not working with a bank. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: have to have use some service as a thing called

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Speaker 1: nexo that's essentially stores your crypto for you and takes

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Speaker 1: it off of the exchange, so it's less like vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what that means, but that's what

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Speaker 1: I was I was explained to me. But they're essentially

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Speaker 1: you are your own bank using this service, and it

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Speaker 1: extends you like credit lines of credit based on how

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Speaker 1: much crypto you're holding. Yeah, exactly, and there will be

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Speaker 1: exit points where you are required to interact with the

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Speaker 1: world's extant financial system. But another advantage that this stuff

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Speaker 1: has over banks is that d s instant. It's possible

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Speaker 1: to buy or spend stuff wherever you are, and you

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Speaker 1: don't have to necessarily have a computer to use it.

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Speaker 1: You can do these kinds of transactions entirely on your

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Speaker 1: phone if you wish. So that does hold real value

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Speaker 1: for people who might be technologically challenged in one way

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Speaker 1: or another. But of course, the big one, the big,

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Speaker 1: big one is anonymity M anonymity. It's sweet. It's the

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Speaker 1: reason everybody is addicted to the Internet, and it's also

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons everybody hates the internet. Uh. Anonymity

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Speaker 1: means that you can have this unregulated currency that's not

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Speaker 1: bound by adjustments or fluctuating political chain j is uh.

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Speaker 1: It's also great for people who value their privacy online,

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Speaker 1: people who are thinking, why I don't want to hand

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Speaker 1: over all my information of one sort or another just

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Speaker 1: so I can get some cheddar, some digital cheddar. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: and this security the anonymity provides is a benefit, but

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Speaker 1: of course, like other forms of technology like fire, it

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Speaker 1: can be used by anybody. So someone sees it and

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, this is a great way not to

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Speaker 1: freeze in the in the Wild's Yellowstone, and then somebody

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Speaker 1: else says, this is a great way to get rid

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Speaker 1: of that house. I hate fire, and cryptocurrency has the

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Speaker 1: same potential, Like, it's no surprise that people on the

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Speaker 1: dark Web or various black markets would want to use

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Speaker 1: cryptocurrency because you know who really values their anonymity criminals.

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Speaker 1: I feel weird to say it that way, but this

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Speaker 1: is something law enforcement and financial regulators worry about because

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Speaker 1: now you can move vast sums of money in ways

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Speaker 1: that we'll talk about. So that kind of gets us

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Speaker 1: to the cons, and there are cons in addition to anonymity. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first thing is I already said it in this episode.

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Speaker 1: This stuff can be dang confusing for people like me, um,

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's just do the fact that it

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Speaker 1: seems un unders ununderstandable, incomprehensible, just I don't get it sometimes.

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Speaker 1: But I think that's one of the reasons why I

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Speaker 1: personally haven't taken up, you know, going into crypto at

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Speaker 1: all right now, just because I don't fully understand it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if you you meet the right person

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Speaker 1: that can kind of bring you into the world, maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, you have a sense that will crypto sense,

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Speaker 1: maybe that'll that'll do the trick. Um, But that really

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Speaker 1: does seem to be the last hurdle. Like if there

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Speaker 1: was some some amazing advocate that was going around and well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, a good example of this um was

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Speaker 1: the Neil deGrasse Tyson for cryptocurrency, making it understandable for

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Speaker 1: every lay person out there, then maybe there would be

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Speaker 1: wider use of this thing. They're definitely folks like that

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Speaker 1: like on YouTube, but you're right, they're not like they're

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Speaker 1: not like you know, of that degree. And I you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll be completely candid. I've I've begun to dip my

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Speaker 1: toe in it, and it was only because I had

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Speaker 1: a friend who borderline insisted that I do it, like

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Speaker 1: like made me feel almost as though if I didn't

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Speaker 1: do it a little bit, then I'd be like missing

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Speaker 1: out on something really cool. So I did it. Nothing insane,

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Speaker 1: but like he's given me information because even just navigating

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Speaker 1: how to get in and out in the different currencies

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Speaker 1: is all very specific stuff because you have to, like

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Speaker 1: his store it in a specific type of wallet just

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Speaker 1: for that currency, and you know, and just the way

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Speaker 1: it works where you copy and paste these like really

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Speaker 1: long keys to get your money from one place to another.

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Speaker 1: It is a little daunting. And if you don't have

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Speaker 1: someone kind of shepherding you through it, I could see

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Speaker 1: how it would be, uh, not appealing at all. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been enjoying my very limited experience in it,

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Speaker 1: and so far it's you know, it's going. Okay. We

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Speaker 1: need a jaw rule, we sit down on international news

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Speaker 1: platforms and explain the basis of cryptocurrency. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I think it's a great bit. I don't

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Speaker 1: care if we're overusing it's it's a great bit. I'll respected.

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Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle another another con of cryptocurrency market fluctuation. In

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Speaker 1: addition to being confusing, right, Matt and I would argue

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people are your your faithful podcaster

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Speaker 1: is included, are also often confused by the existing financial system,

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Speaker 1: which is designed to be confusing so that you can

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Speaker 1: rip people off like that's that's the purpose of it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of ways. All I know is I

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Speaker 1: have some dollars and I have some mattresses, and if

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Speaker 1: I put them together, that's the way it should be.

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Speaker 1: I got into crypto mattresses. But the thing is, in

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Speaker 1: addition to being confusing when something is new, it can

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Speaker 1: also be incredibly unpredictable, and systems don't like general unpredictability.

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Speaker 1: What systems like is an inequality of information such that

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Speaker 1: some people can predict things that other people cannot. As

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Speaker 1: a primary force of a lot of these markets, So

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, as we said, bought into one

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Speaker 1: coin or cryptocurrency or another as an investment. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: people are using these the way you use actual money.

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Speaker 1: Somebody famously bought a pizza in the early days of

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Speaker 1: bit coined and now way overpaid for it. People have

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Speaker 1: used it for gambling. That's pretty cool too. There was

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Speaker 1: even a case where somebody bought a house with cryptocurrency.

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Speaker 1: Bought house with bitcoin, but a lot of house. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: there is kind of I would say it's kind we'll

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Speaker 1: get to it. But but this is the thing. Most

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Speaker 1: people are a great many people are buying this stuff

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Speaker 1: to hold onto it right. Then the next the next

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Speaker 1: cod would be the scams. As with every emergent technology,

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Speaker 1: there are people that are going to use the inexperienced,

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Speaker 1: naivete basic human trust of other people to cheat them

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Speaker 1: out of stuff. And then that's compounded by the fact

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Speaker 1: that you can accidentally cheat yourself out of stuff here

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Speaker 1: because you can lose millions of US dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: value currency if you lose the stuff you need to

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Speaker 1: access this. This happened to a guy named James Howell's

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Speaker 1: probably the most famous example right now. He literally accidentally

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Speaker 1: throw away a physical hard drive with seven thousand, five

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Speaker 1: hundred bitcoins back in when he was cleaning his home.

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Speaker 1: He like wrote to the local government the authorities of

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Speaker 1: the landfill where he thought it would end up, and

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't let him dig it out. And he is

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Speaker 1: just s o l which on a family show means

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Speaker 1: sorely out of luck. There there are some other pros

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Speaker 1: and cons and we're getting to them, but those are

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Speaker 1: the basics. And when we think about unpredictability, we see

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Speaker 1: the biggest example that just happened, something people hadn't predicted,

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Speaker 1: has already occurred, and it is this the rise of

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Speaker 1: the n f T. What does n f T stand for?

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Speaker 1: Does it Standford? No fun Time? What does it standford?

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Speaker 1: New fun Time? Uh? Does it stand for? What are

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Speaker 1: some other ones's let's just make some things up? Nason,

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Speaker 1: frog tremble, Uh, Mason, that's great. Uh? You know, neo

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Speaker 1: fascist trocolodytes, neo fascist trocolodytes, yes, Nazi cave cave people, yes. Uh?

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Speaker 1: Does it's uh? Does it stand for nearly fanny time?

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Speaker 1: That's filthy? In the UK, it doesn't stand for any

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Speaker 1: of those things. But we'll we'll tell you what it

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Speaker 1: does stand for and why it's got so many people fascinated.

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Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsor, we're back in FT.

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Speaker 1: Despite all the awesome acronyms we just made up, n

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Speaker 1: FT is a real thing. It stands for non fungible token,

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Speaker 1: and fungible in this case has nothing to do with fungi.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird Why I thought that was a made

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Speaker 1: up word. I was not aware of this and uh

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Speaker 1: and uh economic parlance, but it apparently means like one

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Speaker 1: to one right. Um, So a bitcoin is fun fungible.

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Speaker 1: You can trade one for another there and you'll have

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Uh. In the crypto universe, a token

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Speaker 1: is a representation of a thing, um, you know, some

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Speaker 1: building block in this ecosystem. Right. Non fungible means exactly

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Speaker 1: what it sounds like. It means it is one thing

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Speaker 1: and one thing alone. It cannot be traded for another

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Speaker 1: thing because another thing like that doesn't exist. Right. It

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Speaker 1: can't be replaced with something else. There's no um parody there,

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Speaker 1: there's no equivalent. Uh So. One of the first uses

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Speaker 1: was a game called Crypto Kitties. Ben, you gotta tell

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Speaker 1: us about Crypto Kitties. I was not aware of this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Crypto Kitties. So Crypto Kitties interesting. It is a block

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Speaker 1: chain game, and what it allows you to do when

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Speaker 1: you play it is to purchase, collect, breed and sell cats,

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Speaker 1: cats that are entirely virtual. This got so popular in

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Speaker 1: that it jammed up the theory of network, slowing it

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Speaker 1: down significantly as it reached its all time high number

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Speaker 1: of transactions. Back in the game was also still really popular.

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Speaker 1: Someone bought a non fungible token a digital cat from

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Speaker 1: the game, or get this one hundred and seventy two

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars US real money, and this what they got

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Speaker 1: for that was really I mean, yes, in technical terms,

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Speaker 1: I got this long blockchain, right, but what they what

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Speaker 1: the goat was an image of I'll say, a quite

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Speaker 1: cool cartoon cat, right, But is it a hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy two thousand dollars cool? How much would you pay

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Speaker 1: for an image? Yeah? This is my problem, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm just not understanding something. No. I think

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Speaker 1: you probably likely are. You're buying this image, so you

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Speaker 1: own the image, but you're not. You can't make money

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Speaker 1: on owning that image all the rights to the image.

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Speaker 1: You own this particular assembly of these pixels in this

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Speaker 1: form in the in that way, even though it can

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Speaker 1: still be screenshotted and it can still exist as an

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Speaker 1: image on an Instagram for people to look at and enjoy.

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Speaker 1: But you own what the higher resolution? That's That's okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you, Matt, I'm what is it? What are

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Speaker 1: you getting? Like? Are you getting like some mega high

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Speaker 1: four K version that you couldn't achieve with a screen shot?

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Speaker 1: Because I know people are taking these and like you know,

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Speaker 1: you can get a digital frame and you can throw

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Speaker 1: one of these into these digital frames and then they

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Speaker 1: have it in your house. There's an art show at

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Speaker 1: a local gallery called a b V gallery. Onto this

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Speaker 1: local mural artist Greg Mike owns they're doing an n

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Speaker 1: f T show UM, and in the gallery is just

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Speaker 1: a bunch of TVs, like a bunch of like vertically

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Speaker 1: positioned TVs. UM with these images, many of them are

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Speaker 1: are animated. Most of them are I think all of them.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you're animated UM now I don't know about that,

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Speaker 1: but that's definitely the popular version of these. And they

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Speaker 1: loop there like a looping animated image like a gift

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Speaker 1: or something, but higher resolution. Yes, so there are there

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Speaker 1: are a couple of things that qualifies what I would

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Speaker 1: call ownership here. I don't know that it is fair

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Speaker 1: to say they meet the requirements of what constitutes ownership

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Speaker 1: in the pre n FT world. There's there's a great

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Speaker 1: way to explain this, uh shout out to Mitchell Clark

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Speaker 1: over at the Verge. Let's say you are deep in

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Speaker 1: the trading card game and you have a very rare

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Speaker 1: or somehow unique trading card like Pokemon. You have the

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Speaker 1: Pikachu illustrator. That's a that's a rare Pokemon card from

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Speaker 1: what I understand, and you trade it for a super rare,

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Speaker 1: very old baseball card him like the turn of the

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Speaker 1: Night of the century, and you've completed your trade, but

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Speaker 1: now you have something totally different from what you started with.

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Speaker 1: Also important note, Matt, people can sell in f t

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Speaker 1: s after they purchase them, and there's a weird system

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Speaker 1: set up for it. So maybe that makes a little

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Speaker 1: more sense. I like, I'm like, uh, Mitchell Clark's example,

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Speaker 1: but there's another one. I thought that I want to

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Speaker 1: see what you guys think. It made a little more

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Speaker 1: sense to me. Let's say, let's think about borrowing a

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars versus borrowing a car. So let's say you

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Speaker 1: go to Paul Mission Control and you're like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: can I borrow a hundred bucks? And Paul, being a mention, says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course you can borrow it, just pay me back

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Speaker 1: next week or whatever. So he'll expect you to pay

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Speaker 1: him a hundred bucks next Wednesday or Thursday or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But he'll just want some form of a hundred dollars back.

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Speaker 1: He's not reasonably gonna expect you to come back with

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Speaker 1: the exact same hundred dollar bill. And yes, peek behind

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Speaker 1: the curtain, folks, Paul only uses one bills it's very

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Speaker 1: weird to be with him at restaurants can confirm where

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Speaker 1: he eats for free. But yeah, so we could confirm

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Speaker 1: that that's real. But let's say instead, well, let's say

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Speaker 1: the same day you borrow hunterdbucks from Paul, you go

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Speaker 1: to code Enam Doc holiday and you asked to borrow

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Speaker 1: her car, and because she's awesome, she lets you borrow

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Speaker 1: her car and you say, okay, I'll bring it back

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Speaker 1: to you, you know, next Wednesday or Thursday or whenever.

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Speaker 1: But what is So you come back to Paul and

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Speaker 1: Alexis and you give Paul, you know, uh, two fifties

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Speaker 1: and he's like, what are these because he's only ever

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Speaker 1: seen a hundred dollar bill, but he believes you because

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Speaker 1: it adds up to a hundred. But then, you know,

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Speaker 1: Doc is like, where's my car? And you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: I brought you a car back. They're like, that's a car.

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Speaker 1: Then she would say no, no, no, no, no, bro,

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Speaker 1: my car is my car. I gave you my car,

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Speaker 1: and I would like my car back. That's that's where

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Speaker 1: a car would be a non fungible token, and this

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Speaker 1: bill is d dollar bill would be more like a

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Speaker 1: bitcoin and n f t s or the crypto version

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Speaker 1: of this, Like, they can literally be anything. That's the

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Speaker 1: other thing. They can be anything that you can digitally

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Speaker 1: depict totally. Like, for example, Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey recently

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Speaker 1: sold his first tweet, the first tweet as an n

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Speaker 1: f T for two point nine million dollars. So that

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Speaker 1: tweet is then encrypted in this very specific encryption and

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Speaker 1: now it's an n f T. It's yeah, So it's

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Speaker 1: like it's you attach an n f T to the

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Speaker 1: asset and that's what. So it's not like that's not

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Speaker 1: the n f T itself, it's the thing that you

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Speaker 1: attached to it that then verifies a chain of custody.

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Speaker 1: It's essentially like a digital authenticity report. But what the

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Speaker 1: hell does that mean? Though? How do you own a tweet?

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Speaker 1: I could screenshot that tweet and put it in a

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Speaker 1: digital frame. To me, it's a fetishization of ownership, is

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Speaker 1: what a lot of this is. That's not an unfair

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Speaker 1: way to say it, because you know, my it reminds

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Speaker 1: me of the story that keeps coming up when we

427
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: explore these kinds of things about the Emperor's new clothes,

428
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: which will wax poetic on later. But but you're right,

429
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: so drawing, music, animation, video clip, digital art. You buy

430
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: the n F T, yet you still own it quote

431
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: unquote whatever. That a new idea of ownership is. But

432
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: other people can just right click and save it when

433
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: they see it. Other people can you know what, Other

434
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: people can right click save it and then if they

435
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: have a printer, they could print it out and they

436
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: could frame it themselves, and they own an iteration of that. Well,

437
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: it's like when Martin Screlly bought that Wou Tang Clan album.

438
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: He he had it, he could do whatever he wanted

439
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: with it. He could a lord it over everyone like

440
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: I really pretty much did. Or he could distribute it

441
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: to the world. Uh, that's different. That's like a one

442
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: of a kind thing that he only, and he and

443
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: only he has access to and has the rights to

444
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: do with what he will. This is not that. So

445
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm very confused as well, Matt about the the draw

446
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: in terms of like why why spend you know, two

447
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: three million dollars on the first tweet when like you

448
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: can just you know, look at it. It's this idea

449
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: to me of like I own the first tweet and

450
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: that's cute, and it also means that the only people

451
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: that are doing this that level of of cash are

452
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: people that can afford to do cute things with that

453
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: kind of money. The tweet example is funny to me

454
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: because in the Verge article that I just cited, the

455
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: journalists had to update their article because they originally said

456
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: selling a tweet as an n f T as a joke,

457
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: and then Dorsey did it, and they had to go

458
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: back in the article and say, hey, we were joking,

459
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: but this guy did it. We don't know if we

460
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: read the article. But people paid much more than what

461
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: they paid for that tweet. Uh. One n f T

462
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: was auctioned at Christie. So congratulations to Mike Winkleman, a

463
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: k a people, a digital artist who sold an n

464
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: f T there for Paul. Can we get a drum

465
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: roll please? Yes? Sixty nine million, very real dollars and yeah,

466
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: it's a lot. These are by design meant to give

467
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: the purchaser again that quote unquote ownership, and it is

468
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: ownership as a as a concept. You know, it's you

469
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: could also even on the artists side, Let's say I

470
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: sell um an n f T of something that I

471
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: have painted, then I would still have that physical painting

472
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: very well could and then I could just create more

473
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: n f T s of the same thing, just the

474
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: same image with different blockchains attached. And now it's like

475
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: I've made Prince. Now you have a number three of

476
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: one hundred of ben Bull and Casey ds study number seven.

477
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: I love your work band, I love that series. Um,

478
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: but I have to ask them, is there an inherent

479
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: agreement or an implicit agree or like implusit wouldn't be enough.

480
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: Is there an agreement contractual or otherwise? Uh? For the

481
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: artist to never make another thing like that? Again in

482
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: some cases? In some cases because again this is this

483
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: has a doesn't have any kind of sweeping regulation uh,

484
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: and the ideas that necessarily doesn't because right download this thing?

485
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: Are you printed out and you own it? Even though

486
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: you never bought the n f T you don't own

487
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: it in f T wise, But isn't possession nine tenths

488
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: of the law. I mean this caught on pretty quickly.

489
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Now we're talking about multimillion dollar market. So I think

490
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: the three of us have raised some really great questions

491
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: at the jump here. Uh, most directly, why mess with this?

492
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: Why have them? Well, it can be it's great if

493
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: you're an artist. If your people, of course, you can

494
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: absolutely understand why people are calling this an evolution and

495
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: fine art collecting. You can sell new stuff in a

496
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: new way, that's dope. You can also make a lot

497
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: more money off a digital thing that maybe you otherwise

498
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: would have sold as like a sticker or something, you know,

499
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: because if you look at these, a lot of these

500
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: are really cute little pieces of pixel art or some

501
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: of them, right, and that wouldn't have been like if

502
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: you saw that on an app store as a you know,

503
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: an emoji or something, would you paid for it? Would

504
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: you have just like waited until there was a old

505
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: pack of emoji to downloads or something, or wait for

506
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: the next OS update where then it's just folded into it.

507
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: That's that's what's happening. And to make no no, no, no.

508
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: But let's start making original stuff they don't want you

509
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: to know videos again, but exclusively as n f T s.

510
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: Let's make let's make millions of dollars for people who

511
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: just have a theory um sitting around and they don't

512
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: know what to do with it all. Let's do it.

513
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. That's what I hadn't thought

514
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: about Oh okay, wait, we gotta get back to that one.

515
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. Um, that's a crazy point. Well,

516
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: here's another benefit for the artist though. You can enable

517
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: a feature on an n f T, the bulk of

518
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: which on ethereum that allows that like pays you a

519
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: kind of residual So every time your work is sold

520
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: or change his hands, you get a little cut of

521
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: the deal. And that didn't happen with a lot of like, uh,

522
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: classic oil paintings or whatever. You know, that didn't happen

523
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: for Leonardo da Vinci or Picasso or you know, any

524
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: any of the masters of the craft. But it's it's

525
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: a little different for buyers. I mean it's a flex right, Ultimately,

526
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a kind of a playground of

527
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: the rich. Look what I can do. I've got an

528
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: n f T gallery next to my Dirigibal collection and

529
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: and I don't know, in a positive way, it is

530
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: a new way to support artists. You like, that's cool, right,

531
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: You've got You've got a artists that you think is

532
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: is a really important voice in the world, and you

533
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: want to financially support them. And you could say, hey,

534
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: I will buy your n f T. I feel like

535
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: it's a creative way of donating in some in some way,

536
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: and yeah, you get usage rights, but I don't think

537
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: somebody would. I don't think you would find somebody using

538
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: an n f T that they didn't buy as or

539
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: an image from an n f T that they didn't

540
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: buy on their Instagram profile. I don't think you would

541
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: see him getting sued, right, they would just take it down.

542
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't know how you enforce it, you know, or

543
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: why you would bother um. But it's just it's only

544
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: unique and that's a token on the blockchain, so it's

545
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: in this weird I know this phrase gets overused so often.

546
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: It's in this weird liminal space. I'm so sorry like it.

547
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: It's true though it's free. It fits so many things.

548
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: It is a very useful phrase. So in n f T,

549
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: if we think about it, is kind of designed to

550
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: be both a Mona Lisa, only one exists. There's only

551
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: one real Mona Lisa and the rest of forgeries. But

552
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: it's also kind of has the capability to be a

553
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: Honda Civic. You can just especially the artists, you could

554
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: just take the same thing and then say, okay, this

555
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: is different non fungible token and now there are thousands.

556
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: Logan Paul from YouTube has made some video clips of

557
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: his existing videos as n f T S Grimes, you know,

558
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: the once kind of indie, uh electro weirdo kind of

559
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: outsider artist who became more and more popular with every

560
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: record and then kind of really jumped the shark by

561
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: having a baby with Elon Musk. She sold six million

562
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: dollars worth of n f T S various kind of

563
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: a digital dree kind of collages like that were collaborations

564
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: that she did with another artist. Uh, that's something called

565
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: the war Nymph Collection. Some of it was like set

566
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: to music and a lot of this stuff that since

567
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: it is so new, Um, there are a few portals

568
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: to getting this stuff where artists have like accounts, you know,

569
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: like you would on a social media platform. The most

570
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 1: popular one, I think it's called nifty Gateway, and that's

571
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: where she sold her stuff. Uh yeah. And so the

572
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: question then is what does this mean for the future.

573
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: What can n f T specifically lead to? Here we

574
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: enter trickier water. Don't forget this is the same species

575
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: that went absolutely nuts and bananas for POGs, for beanie babies,

576
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: for countless other crazes gathering. I was gonna say, man,

577
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: I thought of you, because magic the gathering. I don't

578
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: think counts is of fad or crazy anymore. It's been

579
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: around too long. It's here, and if n f t

580
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: s are just a crazy how long will they last?

581
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: Because if there's more to it than that, then what's

582
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: the stuff they don't want you to know about? In

583
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: f T S will tell you after award from our sponsor.

584
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy first, obviously, and I feel

585
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: like we should even have to point this out, but

586
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: it's due diligence. First, Obviously, there's a very valid criticism

587
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: that these massive amounts of money could be used for

588
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: something better, something that helps the world. However, that as

589
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: a criticism we look at every time when they can

590
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: fine art the toys of the wealthy, the Mazzarati fleets

591
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: everything that we like. The problem with that is, once

592
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: somebody has their own money, you cannot really tell them,

593
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: and I would argue you should not really tell them

594
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: what to do with it. Of course, Also I would

595
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 1: argue that a lot of philanthropy is just pr shell

596
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: game again to uh to well, to screw the rest

597
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: of the world. But it's true. It's true. That's a nonstarter.

598
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: You can't People surprised don't react well when you say, hey,

599
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: why did you spend sixty nine million dollars on this

600
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: digital thing when that could feed and house x amount

601
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: of people for why amount of years? Whatever? People don't

602
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: like to hear that. Uh, same same reason Jeff Bezos

603
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: doesn't like it. Probably doesn't like it when people are saying,

604
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: here's the fraction of the money you made during the

605
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: pandemic that can make a life changing difference in the

606
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: lives of you know, the day to day lives of

607
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: your employees. I do want to point something out here.

608
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: Many of these transactions we're talking about we're done in.

609
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: I think it was ethereum that was mostly the coin

610
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: that was used for these Ethereum is where it started,

611
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: so I am and I'm just putting us out there,

612
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: and I don't even know this fully computes, but they

613
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: were rather low numbers of ethereum that were exchanged. We're

614
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: talking hundreds. I think that was the most, or at

615
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: least the one sale that was for several role hundred

616
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: thousand was like, uh, two hundred and something ethereum. I

617
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: think we said something like that. Okay, imagine that you

618
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: you got into ethereum very very early on, and you know,

619
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: let's say you put even as much as ten thou

620
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: dollars down when ethereum is at the lowest possible levels,

621
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: when it's just beginning, that could translate to many, many,

622
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: many many ethereum, which would essentially be a fortune that

623
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: was created out of very little money very early on,

624
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: and you would have so much of it the equivalent

625
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: of what it actually is in dollars maybe doesn't matter

626
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: to someone as much once that that, like, it's almost

627
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: like winning the lottery really quickly, um I, and imagine

628
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: the value of it seeming very different than if it

629
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: was a hard earned million dollars that someone worked their

630
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: whole life to achieve or something. Absolutely glad you brought

631
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 1: that up. Absolutely glad, because there's something that I think

632
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people can understand through comparison here. Right

633
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: If someone just has this etheroryum and it's kind of

634
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: grown native to that financial ecosystem, never touched it because

635
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: you're like a lot of other investors, You just wanted

636
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: it to a crew and then hit a windfall, and

637
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: then maybe you would think about taking it out into

638
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: another currency. There's something that happens when you travel to

639
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: a part of the world that uses a different currency,

640
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: and it's really weird. I don't know if there's a

641
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: technical or respected name for it, but when I'm just

642
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: freestyling here, I call it it's the monopoly money effect,

643
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, you go to a

644
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: place where like you go to uh Japan that will

645
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: be a familiar example to a lot of people, and

646
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: you take your US dollar the amounts that you have,

647
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: and you exchange it for yen, right, and you get

648
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: these you get these different amounts of dollars. So like

649
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: if you put in two hundred and fifty dollars, then

650
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have over twenty seven thousand yen.

651
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: And even though you know that the value systems are different,

652
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: psychologically you're walking around and you're like, this is what

653
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: it feels like at the top, you know what I mean.

654
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: And it can take you some time. It can take

655
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: you a few transactions to realize, like to get a

656
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: sense in your head that yes, in terms of cost

657
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: of things, that two fifty dollars and that twenty seven

658
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: thousand seven yen or something are still like they have parody,

659
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: but I know exactly what you're thinking about it. It's

660
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: like it's one of the reasons that a lot of

661
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: people when they're traveling to unfamiliar places might spend a

662
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: lot more than they think they're spending because they're just like, hey,

663
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: what what these are all plus other countries use coins

664
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: a lot more often than the US, so they're like,

665
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: I'm just putting pocket change in these things. You know,

666
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: I don't know that this is really worth five dollars

667
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, it's tough. And that's even without exchange rates.

668
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: So you are absolutely right, and I can see that.

669
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: So we're not saying all these people are, you know,

670
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: billionaires or whatever. And I think that's my point to

671
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: with about like, you know, internet spending, crypto culture gone

672
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 1: a run a muck kind of is how I look

673
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: at this in some ways, because so many people made

674
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money on crypto. Maybe not instantly, but

675
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of people that I know that

676
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: made a lot of money on crypto used it to

677
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: buy like, you know, synthesizers and like toys and stuff.

678
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, they were never banking on

679
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: it as being there, like life's blood or their life's work.

680
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: It was always kind of funny money, you know, because

681
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: they knew the bottom could drop out any day. I

682
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: was talking to a guy who, um, is giving me

683
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: some advice on this stuff, and he says he lost

684
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: ninety thousand dollars and one fell swoop uh in when

685
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: there was a big crypto kind of bottom fallout situation

686
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: back in or something like that. Um, and you know,

687
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: to the point where he got out of it entirely

688
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: for a while and then got back in. But I'm

689
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: just saying, like, you know, I've known people in the past.

690
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: I've played in a band with the dude and years

691
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: ago who had all this crazy stuff, and it's because

692
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: he lived with a dude who got in early with

693
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: the crypto, with the with the bitcoin stuff, and he

694
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: got him into it and he just had like funny

695
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: money to just blow on whatever. Like it's it reminds

696
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: me of like the kid in Big you know what

697
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: I mean, Like when you like, all of a sudden,

698
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: he got all this money, you got more than you

699
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: know what to do with. You just like buy yourself

700
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: like a pleasure palace, you know. Um. It's just interesting

701
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: because you're right I think that you're totally correct. It

702
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like earned. It just feels like frivolously created

703
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: um therefore can be frivolously spent. I don't know, a

704
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: lot of people already had this sort of separate existence,

705
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. A lot of people already

706
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: had a day job where they were doing so they

707
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: had income, you know what I mean. And this stuff

708
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: just kind of kept a crewing in the in the background.

709
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: So that makes sense. But there's something else we have

710
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: to talk about. The tease this a little bit. Crime.

711
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: Non fungible tokens get especially interesting when you talk about

712
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: money laundering. So it's no secret criminal elements use crypto

713
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: money laundering to hide the dirty origin of various funds.

714
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: The easiest way to do it this is not financial advice.

715
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: No one is telling you to do this. We cannot

716
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: legally say this is roughly how you do it and

717
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: get away. The most easy way to do it, uh

718
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: is kind of a three stage process which we can

719
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: describe vaguely. You can purchase cryptocurrency with like let's say

720
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: you have the your dirty cash, call it your fiat cash. Right,

721
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: If you want to get a little edgy about it. Uh.

722
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: You buy your cryptocurrency with your FIA cash you get

723
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: from running guns or mass or stamp fraud or something.

724
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just stamp fraud still my favorite crime. Uh.

725
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: And now that you have this and you have it

726
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: in cryptocurrency, you have to be careful because crypto based

727
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: transactions again overwhelmingly can be followed via the blockchain. However,

728
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: once you've got this dirty these dirty coins in play,

729
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: then you can do a couple of things. You can

730
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: use sort you can use a service to make it

731
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: a little more anonymous, breaking links between those bitcoin transactions.

732
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: That's possible. Uh. And then you have a legit excuse

733
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: for that. You can say, well, I'm using that service

734
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: because it provides even better personal privacy and security. The

735
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: easiest way to wash it, which is interesting, is this.

736
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: So like, let's say I've been running guns for a while, right,

737
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: I had a crazy year during the pandemic. I got

738
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: into a side gig, and now I have a lot

739
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: of money that I can't move because Uncle Sam will

740
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: get after me. Then the next the easiest way, so

741
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: I put it in bitcoin or whatever. I put it

742
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: in douge coin or whatever, and the easiest way for

743
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: me to get around the trace ability there is to

744
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: take not the money I had in cash, but the

745
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: money already, put one crypto coin and then wait for

746
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: an I c O and initial coin offering, because like

747
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: we said earlier, there are tons and tons of different cryptocurrencies,

748
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: different coins, and when that initial coin offering comes out,

749
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: these are one of the businesses that does accept payment

750
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: in cryptocurrency, aren't they. So now I just have to say, well,

751
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get I'm gonna buy in big with bend

752
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: coins or whatever, and I'm gonna pay for it all

753
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: with bitcoins, and then boom, I have shell gamed the

754
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: points and I've done so well enough that now people

755
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: are not going to be able to say, hey, the

756
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: origin of ben coin is actually a crazy, crazy international

757
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: trade in a R fifteens and Kalishnikov's and crap like that.

758
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: Boom boom boom. And the last thing you have to

759
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: do is just integrate that money back into the legitimate

760
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: financial system and then you can just say, hey, like

761
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: the thing is, this is where the unpredictability, volatility, fluctuation

762
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: of cryptocurrency comes in, because you just wait till it

763
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: gets to a really high point and be like, oh, yeah, yeah,

764
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: I got it a while ago, and then this happened,

765
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: and so now I've got I guess I just got lucky,

766
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: you know. And then I would say, not the lecture people,

767
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: but I would say, if you made it that far unscathed, uh,

768
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: maybe you can retire from the illegal gun trade. It's

769
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: not a very smart business be in. Uh, it's not

770
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: a very good business to be in. And this can

771
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: get you around stuff like income from drugs, from trafficking

772
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: for weapons sales. It can help you dodge taxes. Possibly

773
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: to me, the most interesting thing I don't I think

774
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: maybe we talked about this a little bit, is how

775
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: useful is this for state actors who don't want to

776
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: get caught pain for someone for an illegal activity. How

777
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: useful is it if you want to get around sanctions

778
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: right to buy stuff? Uh, and to improve funds and

779
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: all that stuff is important, right because we are talking

780
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: about crime, we're talking about human lives. But there's another

781
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: much bigger problem which people are only really now starting

782
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: to understand in mainstream conversation, and that's this the crime,

783
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: the legit stuff. None of this can happen if we

784
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: can't maintain life on Earth in some way. One of

785
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: the biggest problems with cryptocurrency and with n f t

786
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: S is in fact the environment, and in a very

787
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: not cool way. That's right. Uh, it's absolutely a detriment

788
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: to the environment. The technology, the amount of electricity, the

789
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: amount of resources and infrastructure requires to process just one

790
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: transaction bitcoin. In general, leaves could potentially leave a carbon

791
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: footprint the size of the entire region of London. Um.

792
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: It all goes back to how these things are created. Uh.

793
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: New bitcoins are created by this idea of mining coins,

794
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: which is the extra CPU intensive process. Um. It requires

795
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: like thousands and thousands of these complex calculations. The more

796
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: bitcoins there are, the longer it takes to mine new coins,

797
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: and the more actual electricity it takes. That blew my

798
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: mind when I first understood that. But when you really

799
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: start digging in, you realize, no, this is this is

800
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: very very much a real thing. Yeah, there's there's some

801
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: fascinating and not super uh not not super happy research

802
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 1: into this. There's a Dutch economist named Alex Dave Rees

803
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: Davray who found that the energy use here is growing

804
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: at this breakneck pace because it takes longer to mine,

805
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: you know, one bitcoin to complete the math there. Now,

806
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: the energy use, he asked me. By seventeen, the energy

807
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: use was already thirty terawatt hours a year. So that's

808
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: the and that's where he gets that London number from,

809
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 1: because he said back in two thousand seventeen, thirty taro

810
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: watts year was the same amount of energy used for

811
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: the entirety of Ireland. You'll see another report you can

812
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: see that Cambridge University studies found bitcoin uses more electricity

813
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: than the entirety of Argentina as far as uh February one.

814
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: So it's accelerating. Is the issue where we're eating more

815
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: and more into the machine and that is creating more

816
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: and more pollution because most of the world's energy comes

817
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: from fossil fuels, right, So it's something we don't really

818
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: think about, but it's it's absolutely true and something UM

819
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: knowl you and you and I I think I talked

820
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: a little bit about this off air when you were

821
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: kind of getting into bitcoin, right. Yeah, Well, it's not

822
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: something I even fully realized right when I started. And

823
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: again I'm not like deep into it by any stretch

824
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: of the imagination, but it's true. I mean, there's Look,

825
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: there's definitely like bitcoin apologists, for lack of a better

826
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: way of describing them, that will say, okay, there's a

827
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: conflation going on. People are saying, you know, one bitcoin

828
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: transaction consumes as much energy as your house uses in

829
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: a week. And then this blog three myths about bitcoin's

830
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: energy energy consumption from Satoshi Labs. Um they point out

831
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: that you know, it's electricity that it consumes, not energy

832
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: at large. So it's like I use as a cons

833
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: sumer electricity, gas and gasoline. Um, bitcoin transactions only use electricity.

834
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: But that's it's honestly like, I don't. I only bring

835
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: that up just to show both sides. But yeah, it's true.

836
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: I mean it is fair to say that a one

837
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: single crypto or bitcoin transaction and was seven kill a

838
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: lot hours, which was more compared to the cumulative one

839
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: hundred thousand visa transaction with only one energy consumption of

840
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: a hundred and forty nine kill a lot hours. Yeah,

841
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: so there is there is a real issue here. And

842
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: the thing about this is it's it's an issue that's

843
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: tough to mitigate in many ways because the way the

844
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: system is built demands that increased consumption Ethereum, who, as

845
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, was the kind of the big daddy

846
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: of an f T uses a process called proof of

847
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: work to valid ate their transactions to say like, yes,

848
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: this is the actual thing happening and it is legitimate.

849
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: But in response to the growing criticism about energy consumption

850
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: and environmental damage, they've been moving to a less intensive

851
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: process called proof of steak. And this proof of steak

852
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: process is going to, according to them, take up less

853
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: than one percent of the energy that's currently being consumed.

854
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: So that's I mean, that's good news, I guess. But

855
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: it's something a lot of people haven't thought about. I

856
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about it. You know, you have

857
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: to get it. It gives you a sense of just

858
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: how Gargantua and the infrastructure is now to create these coins.

859
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 1: But there is one other philosophical quandary here, and it's

860
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,439
Speaker 1: one that does not have an easy answer, and it's

861
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: this we talked about at the very beginning. What what

862
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: is value? What what is currency? Economy? Religion? There's this

863
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: fantastic Fairi's tale that I guess it qualifies as a fairy.

864
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: It doesn't really have fairies in it, but there's this

865
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: story it's very popular in the West. Was back in

866
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: the day called the Emperor's New Clothes. We all remember it.

867
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: Back in the the story goes, once upon a time

868
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: there was an emperor who had everything, and he was

869
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: a super fancy dude, and he had all the super fancy,

870
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: exclusive stuff, and he was very jaded because he had

871
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: bought everything you could buy. He had the finest clothes,

872
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: the finest caviare and cheese wheels and n f t's

873
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: hanging up at his boudoir. And he wanted something that

874
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: no one else could have. And so a tailor from

875
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: far away, an unknown and unknown man, came to him

876
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: and said, I will create for you the finest suit

877
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: of clothes. Right the look at this, this this silk

878
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: is so fine that only the most find I could

879
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: see it. Can you surely, Emperor, you can be the

880
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: type of dude to appreciate this type of stuff. And

881
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: then the emperor was just what the emperor do? Oh

882
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: my god, Yes, it's gorgeous. And feel this finery. It's

883
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: so soft, it's like it's like velvet, but like you know,

884
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: magical angel velvet. Give me all the bolts. That's what

885
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: fabric and invisible fabric comes in, uh, and then you know,

886
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: he gets he makes some of these outfits that he

887
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: then wears in a parade, and he's just got his

888
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: junk all hanging out. He's just that he's out there.

889
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: And that's it's the perfect It's a parable. It's called

890
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: it a parable perhaps because it's meant to teach a lesson, right,

891
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 1: and the lesson is be grateful for the things you have, uh,

892
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: and don't focus all of your energy on things because

893
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: that's not gonna make you happy. And at the end

894
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: of the day, you know, it's like more money, more problems.

895
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: If you get to a point where you just keep

896
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: one in the next thing and the next thing and

897
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 1: the next thing, you're never gonna actually be happy because

898
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: you're just building your image of success, full life and

899
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: of happiness on stuff. And and see the oldest cliche

900
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: in the book. But you can't take it with you. Um.

901
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is a product of that.

902
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: I think you're spot on, Ben, This this phenomenon is

903
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: a product of that malaise that I think overly wealthy

904
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: people have where they want to have a thing that

905
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: no one else can have or get in on. Early

906
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: on the cool thing or but you know, the twist

907
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: of that story is, I mean I said he was

908
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: he had jounk hanging out and all that. But I

909
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: mean that's because what well, my son, it's because there

910
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: aren't no clothes. That's that's me talking to my son

911
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: reading the Emperor is new clothes to him. Um. There

912
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: you go, bingo um. And so the the big thing

913
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 1: here also is that the value is based on really

914
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: nothing besides the fact that it's difficult to make these things.

915
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: They are trackable and you can make more of them,

916
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: and they're clean, and they're somewhat anonymous. So like the

917
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: value is in what they are somewhat even though they're

918
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: not really there. They're digital things. But I think something

919
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 1: that's really important here is that because it is based

920
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: on based on belief, people who have been heavily invested

921
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 1: in something like bitcoin or ethereum them getting others to

922
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: believe in the same way as our salesman to the Emperor,

923
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: getting them to believe that the bitcoin is real and very,

924
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: very valuable is highly profitable to them because their investment

925
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: goes higher and higher with every new person that says, yes,

926
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: I see the clothes too. They they're amazing. UM. So

927
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about um specifically calling out some billionaires

928
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: and multi multi multi millionaires out there who are going

929
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: on Twitter and other places talking up bitcoin and ethereum

930
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 1: and all the other ones out there saying how great

931
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: they are and how you should get invested. I'm imagining

932
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: all of us people on our level, like you know,

933
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: investing your hard earned money in something like this. And

934
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: then really we're filling the coffers of billionaires who just

935
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: went in on a whim uh to invest in their

936
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: their bitcoins. Just happened with Wall Street bets when we

937
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: saw people drop it into thread to say, you know

938
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: what's the next game? Stop is going to be invest

939
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: in that? You're right? Yeah. A case in point are

940
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: you know our buddy John McAfee of of of the

941
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: anti virus fame. UM, he was just indicted for alt

942
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: coin pump and dump scams where essentially he was big

943
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: upping these alt coins on his Twitter as a person

944
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: who's supposedly an expert and saying people would ask, well,

945
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: are you invested in this? And he would say, no,

946
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: my son, I am not, uh, and of course he was,

947
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: and then he would pump it based on the exposure

948
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: it would get from his tweets, and then he had

949
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: dump it and make the money and then we're rinse

950
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: and repeat. So he is he's actually facing up to

951
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: eighty years in prison. He's seventy five years old. I

952
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: can't believe that that's what it took for this guy

953
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: to finally have to answer for some of his uh

954
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: misdeeds that we know about. You know what, I didn't

955
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: he like practically stage a coup in a third world

956
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: country or something. Then I can't remember exactly what the

957
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: deal was, but do easily a mavericky nut job. He's

958
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: lived a life. He's lived a life. But he is

959
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: also clearly if he is convicted, which doesn't sound like

960
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: Kasmen yet, he's clearly doing exactly He's clearly tackling the

961
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: same conundrum that you were talking about their Matt, which

962
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: is Bitcoin is barely used as a real world currency.

963
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: It's it's bought again as an investment, So that means

964
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: that it's value, whatever it's value, maybe, is solely found

965
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: in the fact that other people value it. And so

966
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: when you ask how much something is worth in the

967
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: world of art, you're really asking because art is subjective

968
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: you're really asking about other people's opinions in the future.

969
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: And then when you remove the physical object there, it

970
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: becomes increasingly intangible. Then this question becomes more and more

971
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: important and even more difficult to answer. No one, no

972
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,479
Speaker 1: one does have an answer yet, and I think we're

973
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: I think we're endeavoring to be very fair about this.

974
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 1: You know you want to support your favorite artists, then

975
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: by all means, do you want to spend your money

976
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: on what you want to spend it on. Then I mean,

977
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: by all means, as long as you're not hurting somebody,

978
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: it's pretty much up to you, right, that's not a

979
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: crazy take. I completely agree, and if I could, I

980
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: would just love to return briefly to that sixty nine

981
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: million dollar and f t auction at Christie's by the

982
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: artist people who I think it's cool. I like because

983
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,959
Speaker 1: artif followed him on Instagram for for many years now.

984
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: But the piece that he auctioned off was called the

985
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: First five Thousand Days. Every day is the First five

986
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: thousand Days. And if you look at it like big

987
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: or like you know, zoomed out, it just looks like

988
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: a like a mosaic. Well, these tiny little squares all

989
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: of the tidy little squares are five thousand of his

990
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: artworks that he has published in digital form on his

991
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: Instagram over the years, and I recognize many of them.

992
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: Uh Now to be completely transparent, there are some eagle

993
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: eyed folks that have searched through some of those images

994
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: and found some kind of racist and problematic images in there.

995
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: So I'm having to reassess my feelings about people, but

996
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: your feelings about his art and his politics aside. He

997
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: was paid his cut fifty three million dollars of that

998
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: sixty nine point three million dollars sail in Ethereum, guess

999
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: what he did. He converted it to US dollars instantly,

1000
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: and and and uh and said he did so because

1001
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: he goes boom, fifty three million dollars in my account,

1002
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: Like what the uh? I'm not remotely a crypto purist.

1003
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: I was making digital art long before any of this,

1004
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: and if this n f T stuff went away tomorrow,

1005
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: I would still be making digital art today. Um. He says,

1006
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: then goes on to say, I absolutely think it's a bubble,

1007
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: to be quite honest, there was a bubble and the

1008
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: bubble burst and it wiped out a lot of crap

1009
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: but it didn't wipe out the Internet. And so the

1010
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: technology itself is strong enough where I think it's going

1011
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: to outlive that. Um says the man with fifty three

1012
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: million dollars in his bank account. If the bubble with

1013
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: the bubble burst, it burst with him, I would say,

1014
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: but clearly not. Well, you know, there's a there's another thing.

1015
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of our full listeners were waiting

1016
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: for us to mention Banksy or people claiming to be Banksy.

1017
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: UH sold a in ft just earlier this month, after

1018
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: the original was physically burned in Brooklyn. This is the

1019
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: first for the art industry. The piece was by the way,

1020
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: you gotta love this, Uh, you know I love this

1021
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: banks He approach. The piece was called morons. It pokes

1022
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: fun at art collectors. UH. It had been burned by

1023
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: a team of crypto enthusiasts at quote a discreet location

1024
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. They sold this in ft he of this

1025
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: thing that no longer physically exists for thirty eight thousand dollars.

1026
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: So what were those folks buying exactly? Were they buying

1027
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,959
Speaker 1: something unique that only they could appreciate, or they buying

1028
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: the Emperor's new clothes? I think that's I think it's

1029
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: a fair question. It isn't. It reminds me of another

1030
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: banks He stunt where he had a piece in a

1031
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: frame of like I think a little girl with the

1032
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: balloon or something like that. Um, and he posted a

1033
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: video that was either him or I think Banks he's

1034
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: a group of people. Um. But he posted a video

1035
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: or they posted a video from the audience in the

1036
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: auction Uh. And right as it was auctioned off with

1037
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: the final um, you know, call of the auctioneer. Uh,

1038
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: the frame shredded the piece before everyone's eyes. And guess

1039
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: what that made it more valuable because it stopped halfway

1040
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: and so now it's like so that's like literally because

1041
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: the destruction of the art made the art more valuable

1042
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: because it was now Banks's hands were on it. And

1043
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: it's just like custom shredd or frame. So it's also ephemeral. Uh.

1044
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: And I think it's no um. I think it's no

1045
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: accident that that one of the most popular cryptocurrencies and

1046
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: the one used for these is called ethereum because it's

1047
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: all just kind of in the ether, you know. And

1048
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: uh and of course to the collective known as banksy As,

1049
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: I think it's a group of people to thank you

1050
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: so much for hoisting the world of fine art on

1051
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: the pitard. It deserves so uh so massively appreciated things.

1052
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: As always, everybody tuning into the show, there is some

1053
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know about cryptocurrency, and

1054
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: there are some questions that have to be asked about

1055
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: n f T s uh. We can't wait to hear

1056
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: from you. Are you an artist who has been creating

1057
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: n f T s Are you someone who has purchased one?

1058
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: What's your opinion on cryptocurrency? Let us know. We cannot

1059
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: wait to hear from you. You may end up hanging

1060
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: out with this on air via listener mail. We try

1061
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: to make it easy to find us any number of

1062
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: ways online. That's sorry. You can find us on Twitter

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01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: and Facebook where we are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram we

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01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: are conspiracy Stuff show. If you don't want to do

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01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: that stuff, hey, check it out. You can go to

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01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: Here's where it Gets Crazy our page on Facebook. That's

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01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: where you can meet other conspiracy realists just like you.

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01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: You can have conversations, you can make your own posts,

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01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 1: you can do whatever you want, well within reason. There's

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01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: some rules. You can find them in there after you join,

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01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: all you have to do to sign up is name

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01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: one of the hosts or super producers that works on

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01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: this show. It's that easy. Or make a dumb joke

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01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: or that exactly. Yeah, there's definitely alternatives. We've seed to

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01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: know that you're a real human person who is aware

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01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: of what the show is. And then you're in and

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01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: you can have wonderful conversations, trade memes, article links, just

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01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, kind words, the spirited debate with your fellow

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01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: conspiracy realist. If you don't want to do that, you

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01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: can give us call at one three three s T

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01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: d W y t K three minutes of the amount

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01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: of time you will have to leave a message of

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01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: your choosing, let us know if it's okay to use

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01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: it on one of our weekly listener mail episodes, and

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01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: please let us know what to call you so we

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01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: don't out you. If you're like whistleblowers and also YouTube

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01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Hey, if you don't want

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01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff, send us a good

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01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: old fashioned email where we are conspiracy at iHeart radio

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01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is

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01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

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01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

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01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.