1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: We are potentially days away from the Supreme Court of 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: the United States potentially overruling Row versus Wade. This would 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: be the biggest bombshell from the Supreme Court in fifty years, 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: I guess, since the ruling of Row versus Wade, and 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: this is going to fuel the already pretty loud demands 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: from Democrats to pack the Supreme Court. I am very 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: privileged to be joined by not just one, but two 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: United States Senators, both of whom have a whole lot 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: of experience inside the Court. 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Verdict listeners 53 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: get seventy percent off the ip vanish annual plan. Just 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: go to ip vanish dot com i slash cactus to 55 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: claim your discount and secure your online life. That's ip 56 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: va nish dot com slash cactus. This episode, A Verdict 57 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: with Ted Cruze is brought to you by Matt Walsh's 58 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: new film, the new Daily Wire documentary What Is a Woman. 59 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: I've been waiting for this film since the day Matt 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: announced it, and it does not disappoint. Radical gender ideology 61 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: is corrupting our nation right now. It's seeping into our 62 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: children's classrooms as young as kindergarten and preschool. It's even 63 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: poisoned corporate culture. We see Disney and their queerness agenda 64 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: that they're inserting into their children's programming. This has become 65 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: a cultural phenomenon that is assaulting women, that is trying 66 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: to erase biological women. And so Matt Walsh is fighting 67 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: this fight. He he goes on a global on a 68 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: world tour, asking a very simple question, what is a woman? 69 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: And fortunately he took a film crew with him, so 70 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: we all get to come on this journey with him. 71 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: And you will be shocked to hear how many people 72 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: can't answer what you would think is a very simple question, 73 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: or they have a very warped, twisted idea of what 74 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: a woman is. The leftist in this film actually admit 75 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: to Matt Walsh what their ulterior motive is, what their 76 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: underlying agenda is. You will laugh, you will cry, You 77 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: will scream, probably all at once. I highly recommend this film. 78 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: It's available for Daily Wire subscribers only go to what 79 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: is a Woman dot Com? What is a woman dot Com? 80 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: And join Matt on this cultural battle What is a 81 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: woman dot Com? Not just one, but two senators in 82 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: this episode, not just one guy who's written a book 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 1: about the Supreme Court, but two guys who have written 84 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: a book about the Supreme Court. And both guys really 85 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: really don't think that the Democrats should pack at Senator Cruz, 86 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: as always, thank you for being on your own show. 87 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: And Senator Lee, thank you so much for being here. 88 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: A senator from Utah, Mike Lee, an expert on the 89 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: Supreme Court and the author of a wonderful new book 90 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: on how we can save the nine Justices and not 91 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: destroy one of the branches of our government. I will 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: tell you, Michael, two interesting bits of trivia that has 93 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: to with our guest on the pod today. Number One, 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: he is the first Supreme Court clerk in the history 95 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: of the United States to become a United States Senator. 96 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: There have been clerks for many, many years, no clerk 97 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: had ever become a Senator until Mike was elected. There 98 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: now four so Mike got elected the same year as 99 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: Richard Blumenthal, who was a clerk for Harry Blackman, so 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: they were together the first two. I was the third, 101 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: and then Josh Holly's the fourth. But prior to twenty ten, 102 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: when Mike got elected, no clerk had ever gone to 103 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: the Senate. But secondly, and I want Mike to amplify 104 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: on that in a second. But secondly, he is also 105 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: the only person I know, and certainly the only Senator 106 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: I know, whom Harry Reid has locked in a garage. 107 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: Harry Reid's son Josh, became my best friend when I 108 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: was in the sixth grade. This was while my dad 109 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: was serving as a solicitor General and there was this 110 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: new congressman elected from Nevada elected to the House. Harry 111 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: Reid and his son Josh became my friend and I 112 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: got to know him well. One day, for no particular reason, Harry, 113 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: who liked to play practical jokes, figured out a way 114 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: to lock us into the garage. We couldn't get it 115 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: out of it, either in through the house or out 116 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: the garage door, so we just rode bikes and skateboards 117 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: in there for a few hours. It was a lot 118 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: of fun. Harry was an eccentric guy, and he had 119 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: a wonderful sense of humor. He was always very nice 120 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: to me. You know, we disagreed on almost everything politically, 121 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: but until the moment he left the Senate, he would 122 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: bring me into his office periodically just to ask how 123 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: my family was doing and check in on me. He 124 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: was a wonderful person in many respects. Michael. This is 125 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: reflective of the relationships that exist within the Senate and 126 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: also within the Supreme Court, relationships that transcend party affiliation 127 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: and political ideology of every kind. It actually is a 128 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: place where the relationships are much better than the appear 129 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: on TV. That is good to hear, though, Senator Lee, 130 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to just skip over read left you 131 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: in the garage for hours. This wasn't a fifteen minute 132 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: practical joke. That's that man. He has real hootspa and stamina, 133 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: or certainly he did. That's a great story. Yeah. My 134 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: wife used to joke that maybe Harry had accidentally sparked 135 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: the creation of the Tea party movement by doing so. 136 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: It may have been overstanding it, but that's a good observation. 137 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: A Senator Cruz, I guess I'll have you lead it off, 138 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: because I know basically nothing about the Supreme Court beyond 139 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: what I learned from the bill up on Capitol Hill 140 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: in Schoolhouse Rock. But I do know from reading the 141 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: news that the Supreme Court appears to be in greater 142 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: peril than at any time in my life. Support for 143 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: the court. Trust in the court seems to be dropping. 144 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: You have this major decision that could be coming out 145 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: after the leaked opinion, which itself seemed unprecedented, and now 146 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: you've got major calls to bed the whole institution. Well, look, 147 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. The Left is launching unprecedented attacks at 148 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, at the rule of law, at the Constitution. 149 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: They're trying to politicize the Court. They're trying to intimidate 150 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: and bully the justices. They're trying to directly threaten their families. 151 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: They're sending angry protesters to their homes to threaten their families. 152 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: And all of this is a naked desire attempt to 153 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: destroy one of the foundational institutions that protects our fundamental liberties. 154 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: You know, I have to say, I'm really glad that 155 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: Mike is joining us again on verdict. So Mike is 156 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: now the first and only repeat guest on this podcast. 157 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: He was an early guest, and he's now the first 158 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: recitivist to be back, and he's back with a brand 159 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: new book. Mike, tell us about your brand new book. 160 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: What's the title, where can they get it? And why 161 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 1: is it essential that they rush out and buy it 162 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: right now? The name of the book is Saving Nine. 163 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: I wrote Saving Nine because a little over a year 164 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: ago I started seeing all the warning signs that the 165 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: Left was getting ready to pack the Supreme Court, something 166 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: they haven't tried since nineteen thirty seven. As soon as 167 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: I realized that they might actually be serious, I started 168 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I realized, oh my gosh, nobody's 169 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: comprehensively written, at least in modern times, a book explaining 170 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: how you defeat this and why it needs to be defeated. 171 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: But I had long been of the belief that one 172 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: of the worst things that happened in American constitutional history 173 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: was in nineteen thirty seven. It's my belief, and that 174 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: belief is borne out in Saving Nine, where I tell 175 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: the story of Associate Justice Owen Roberts flipping his vote 176 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: in a seminal case called NLRB versus Jones and Laughlin Steele. 177 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: That case was decided on April twelfth, nineteen thirty seven, 178 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: two years from to date that the Supreme Court had 179 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: moved into its new marble palace, first time in history 180 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: it had had its own courthouse. Associate Justice Owen Roberts 181 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: flipped his vote in that case and effectively redefined the 182 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: Commerce Clause. He amended the Constitution as it were. Had 183 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: it been a constitutional amendment, this would have been among 184 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: the most impactful constitutional amendments ever adopted into the Constitution 185 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: because it changed the nature of the federal government. It 186 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: turned it from a limited purpose federal government into a 187 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: general purpose national government. All of this because Owen Roberts 188 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: was afraid of FDR's threats. It worked. Even though FDRs 189 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: court packing plan failed legislatively, it succeeded and left an 190 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: ugly indelible mark, one that's costing the American people dearly 191 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: to this day. So you're pointing out that even though 192 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: by the numbers, FDR's plan did not work, the political 193 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: pressure that came about because of that really did transform 194 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: the Court. So is there something about the number nine 195 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to diminish your book sales by having 196 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: you give away the answer into the main quest of 197 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: the book. But what is it about this number nine 198 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: that is so important? The number has changed over the 199 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: course of the court, though it hasn't changed in recent 200 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: memory for the not just for Republicans or Democrats, or 201 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: conservatives or liberals, but for the functioning of our republic. 202 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: Why is nine the right number to keep? So? As 203 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: I explained in chapter two of Saving Nine, there's nothing 204 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: magical about the number nine. It's not foreordained by the Constitution. 205 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: It's anything that. It's not the inexorable result of common sense. 206 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: It is rather a compromise that was reached. It was 207 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: a number that we arrived at as a country in 208 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine. So for more than a century and 209 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: a half it's worked, and we've stuck with it because 210 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: it works. The Court isn't understaff. There's no need from 211 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: a human resources standpoint to add justices to spread the 212 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: work around. Now, it's not that at all. It's just 213 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden well number one. He views himself as 214 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: the modern reincarnation of Franklin D. Roosevelt's something that's very 215 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: scary in and of itself. But number two, he wants 216 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: to pack the court so we can change the court, 217 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: so we can remake it in its own image, so 218 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: that the court can be brought to heal to do 219 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: his will and make sure that whatever he wants goes 220 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: on the court. Well, you know, if if Joe Biden 221 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: were here, Mike, I think he'd say, Mike, I knew FDR. 222 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: FDR was a friend of mine, and I think he 223 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: probably thinks he's talking to Eleanor Roosevelt. Now, well, this 224 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: was one of my favorite observations in the book. Actually 225 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: is I didn't realize, Senator Lee, I knew that both 226 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: of you, gentlemen, have a long history with the court. 227 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: Senator Cruz, you clerked for a Chief Justice ran Quist. 228 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: You've argued cases before the court. Senator Lee, you clerked 229 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: for Justice Alito. And also your father was the Solicitor 230 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: General the United States under Ronald Reagan. So you've got 231 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: this chapter in the book where you talk about going 232 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court as a kid, and I loved 233 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: your scription of walking up the steps of the Supreme Court. 234 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: And even though obviously the courts right there in Washington, 235 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: d c. You describe it as feeling as though you're 236 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: leaving the petty swamp of Washington and going into a 237 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: place with a little more dignity that might be a 238 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: little bit above the usual fray of politics. That's right, 239 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: it was. It was different than any proceeding I had 240 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: ever been a part of. It was different than other 241 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: government offices that I had ever seen. There was a 242 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: reverence for the court, and there was a careful deliberation 243 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: that I saw in there. You know, at the age 244 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: of ten, when I started watching Supreme Court arguments for fun, 245 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: I didn't understand everything that was going on. I didn't 246 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: understand most of it. It felt like church in a 247 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: foreign language. You had old still you had to be 248 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: really quiet and pay close attention. But over time I 249 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: started figuring out the rhythm of the place, and I 250 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: developed a great respect for it. My late father taught 251 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: me that, you know, even when you disagree with the 252 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: court's ruling, you've got to respect the court because our 253 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: entire system depends on the integrity and the independence of 254 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: the court, and that this is not a tribunal. This 255 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: is not a court that sometimes does good things and 256 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: is mostly bad. It's quite the opposite. It's a good court. 257 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: It's the best of its kind. I believe anywhere in 258 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: the world, warts and all, it is a court that 259 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: is basically good, that sometimes makes mistakes because it's run 260 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: by mortals. But what Joe Biden and the Democrats are 261 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: trying to do, they're trying to demonize and delegitimize the Court. 262 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: They're trying to isolate those justices who dare to actually 263 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: interpret the Constitution based on what it says, and they 264 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: want to remake it in their own image in order 265 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: to achieve a different policy outcome. The minute you do that, 266 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: you rip off that band aid, bad things will happen. 267 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: And it's not limited to abortion. This will extend into 268 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: all sorts of other things, and it will end up 269 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: reflecting the political will of power incumbents, principally presidents of 270 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: the United States. So let me take a digre in here. 271 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: You know, Michael, you and I have talked about how 272 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: Mike is my closest friend in the Senate by far. 273 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: I love this man. Um, he is both his staff 274 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: and my staff get frightened when we get together. Um. 275 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: It is not over boozed because Mike is a teetotaler. 276 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: Although being Cuban, Irish and Italian I am not, as 277 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: as mister Knowles can attest, since since between Scotch and cigars, 278 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: we have killed a few liver cells together. But but 279 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: when when Mike and I get together, we we geek 280 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: out as law geeks in a way that really scares 281 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: our staff and that they're actually like, okay, enough of this, 282 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: like like like, But but I gotta say, I want 283 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: to take a digression for something. You two we're talking 284 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: about a second ago, which is Mike's dad. So so 285 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: I never had the privilege of knowing Mike's dad, but 286 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: he is a legendary so listen. The position of Solicitor 287 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: General of the United States is a unique position in 288 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: our nation's history. It is the only position in all 289 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: of government that is required by statute. It is written 290 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: into statute that the Solicitor General must be learned in 291 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: the law. That is a requirement of the job. And 292 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: there have been legendary solicitors general. There have been legendary 293 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: solicitors general who were among the finest advocates ever to 294 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: be in those marbled halls. And I say with no 295 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: exaggeration that universally, Mike's dad is considered one of the 296 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: finest Solicitors General to have ever served. He is considered 297 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: to be simply an extraordinary Supreme Court advocate, and Mike 298 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: is a kid. One of the reasons I love hanging 299 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: out with Mike because he literally grew up watching arguments 300 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: and around the dinner table debating bills of attainder and 301 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: debating obscure obscure aspects of the Constitution. On one occasion, 302 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: he was arguing a case on behalf of the corporation 303 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ 304 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: of Latter day Saints, and there was a question in 305 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: there about a janitor who had not obeyed the teachings 306 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: of the church. Justice Scalia asked him a question. Okay, 307 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: so this janitor, if he were a good member of 308 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: the church, he would neither drink nor smoke. My dad 309 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: said something to the the effect of yes, Justice Scalia, and 310 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 1: that's a lot more than I can say for some 311 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: of the Catholics I know. Apparently, the courtroom entirely quiet. 312 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: You could hear a pin drop because everybody was nervous 313 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: about what was going to happen. Fortunately for my dad, 314 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: Justice Scalia belted out laughing, and the rest of the 315 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: court joined him, but he developed this kind of fluidity, 316 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: this kind of comfort with the court. It was not impertinence, 317 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: it was respect, but a degree of familiarity that helped 318 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: them trust him. We have this sense right now that 319 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: things used to be more cordial, they used to be 320 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: more professional, the Court used to function a little bit better, 321 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: and now it's not functioning well, and you're getting leaked 322 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: draft opinions for goodness sakes, and you're getting really petty fights, 323 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: especially between the other branches of government, Chuck Schumer saying 324 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: we're coming for you, Bret Gavinaugh, I mean direct threats 325 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: to the justices. What is your historical sense here? Are 326 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: our conditions at the court really at some relative low 327 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: right now? Or is nostalgiais history after a few drinks? 328 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: And have things really always been just about this bad? Well, 329 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: first of all, I don't think we should confuse a 330 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 1: lack of decorum and cordiality and civility among and between 331 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: the justices within the Court itself. I think it's in 332 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: pretty good shape. I mean, we're certainly better often we 333 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: were in other prior eras, like with Associate Justice James McReynolds, 334 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: who was openly contemptuous of a number of his colleagues. 335 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: He was bigoted, he was mean, he was rude, and 336 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: that's sort of thing happened in previous eras of the court. 337 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: You don't have that today. I think you actually have 338 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: a pretty healthy degree of respect and civility among in 339 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: between the justices. But this one is different. You're what 340 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: you're getting up, Michael, is a very significant thing. We 341 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: have never ever had a draft opinion of the court 342 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: leak like this, for reasons I don't entirely understand, or 343 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: maybe I do. The mainstream media keeps trying to downplay 344 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: this leak by saying, oh, leaks have happened. Leaksh Meg, 345 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: It's not that big of a deal. Happens all the time. Well, yeah, so, 346 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: once or twice in a decade, somebody will leak a 347 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: rumor about which way a case is going to be decided. 348 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: It's like betting on the roulette table, red or black. 349 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: You've got a fifty shot at being right, and so 350 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: sometimes those predictions would turn out to be correct. None 351 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: of them or anything like this where somebody took a 352 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: draft majority opinion and leaked it. This is horrendous. So 353 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: this speaks not ill of the justices themselves, I believe, 354 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: but of everyone around the court. The way others treat 355 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: the court has changed. And what you were pointing out 356 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: a moment ago, Michael, is very significant. Chuck Schumer going 357 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: to the steps of the Supreme Court talking about unleashing 358 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: the whirlwind. I mean, what's up with that? The fact 359 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: that you would have I suspect a law clerk with 360 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: the temerity to go out and violate everything we know 361 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: about an attorney's duty of confidentiality and about attorney's duty 362 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: to safeguard property and material that's not his or her 363 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: own and leak it to the press. There's something terribly 364 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: wrong with that, especially because I suspect what we will 365 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: find is whoever did it knew that they would likely 366 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: be disbarred and we'll never practice law again, but also 367 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: knew that they'd probably get a tenured track faculty position 368 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: at Yale for it, and an anchor position at MSNBC 369 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: millions of dollars a year. That's what's new, and that's frightened. 370 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: When Mike and I were both clerks at the Court 371 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: that the two justices who were the closest friends were 372 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: Justice Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg and they hung out, 373 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: they went to operas together. They're very different. It was 374 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: almost like the odd couple, like you know, Felix and Oscar. 375 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: You know, he was the ebulent, loud, Italian conservative. She 376 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: was the librarian ish, prim and proper. But they got 377 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: along beautifully. I remember Center a beautiful photo of them. 378 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: I believe they went to India or something together, or Egypt. 379 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. They were somewhere riding an elephant. And 380 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: some feminists were angry with Justice Ginsburg because she allowed 381 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: Justice Scalia to sit in front of her on the elephant. 382 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: But she did point out that the issue was less 383 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: one of patriarchy and more one of sheer weight. So 384 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: fair enough, you know it. Uh, it's good that the 385 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: institution works. And I'll actually say, even on the political side, 386 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: in the Senate, most senators get along. And the House, 387 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: that's not true. There is some genuine nastiness and unpleasantness 388 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: in the House, but in the Senate, out of a 389 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: hundred senators, I'd say there are at most maybe five 390 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: who are unpleasant, and and it's unusual enough that it's 391 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: an outlier. And most Senators, even though they have strong disagreements, 392 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: get along. Well. I just wrote a remembrance in a 393 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: book for Harry Reid's family for his passing, and I 394 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: wrote a story to his family about one time when 395 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: I was a brand new senator and Harry Reid was 396 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: on the Senate floor and was lambasting me, lighting into me, 397 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: and then when he finished, he started to walk off 398 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: the floor. He turned to me and winked with a grin, 399 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,239 Speaker 1: and it was kind of I laughed out loud. It 400 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: was it was pretty funny. So, Mike, you mentioned that 401 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: your book talks about the fundamental reason why packing the 402 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: cord is bad. And the listeners and viewers of this 403 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: podcast are smart, educated and formed. They care about substance, 404 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: they care about understanding what's going on. And so if 405 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: you're a Verdict viewer and you're standing at the water 406 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: cooler tomorrow and somehow the topic of packing the court 407 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: comes up, what are the best reasons why that is 408 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: a really, really, really bad idea. Okay, the very best 409 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: reasons why it's a bad idea is because in a 410 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: constitutional republic like ours, we aspire to live under the 411 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: rule of law, the rule of law as opposed to 412 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: the rule of individual men and women. Because we started 413 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: to live under the rule of law. We need an 414 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: independent branch to resolve disputes about what law means. We've 415 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: got three branches of government. It's essentially two pens and 416 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: a sword. You've got the legislative pen that writes the law, 417 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: decides what the policy should be. You've got the executive 418 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: branch that wields the sword and enforces the law. But 419 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: then from time to time, people will disagree about what 420 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: the law passed by the legislative branch means. You've got 421 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: to have somebody who can resolve that. You want that 422 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: somebody that's something to be independent and immune from the 423 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: political winds that can change from time to time. That's 424 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: why you need an independent judiciary. The reason I wrote 425 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: Saving nine and the reason court packing is so bad, 426 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: is because if you pack the court in order to 427 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: achieve a preferred political outcome, you will have destroyed the 428 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: independence of the judiciary, and we will no longer live 429 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: under the rule of law. Without the rule of law, 430 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: the constitution itself crumbles, and the greatest civilization the world 431 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: has ever known, which has been facilitated by the US Constitution, 432 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: will exist no more. It is that simple, and it 433 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: is that easy to do. And this is the irony 434 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: of this. So one of the things that I describe 435 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: in saving nine is the fact that it's funny. It's 436 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: curious that something so fundamentally counter constitutional, anti constitutional, is 437 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: itself not unconstitutional. It should be, And that's why I 438 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: support at Ted's constitutional amendment that he's proposed to lock 439 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: this in through the constitution. But it's not unconstitutional. But 440 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: this is a way in which you could really destroy 441 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: the Constitution without ever having to amend it. We can't 442 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: let that happen. Now, Senators, before I let you both go, 443 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: we've been speaking from your positions of expertise on the 444 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: court and your legal careers and all your experience up 445 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: there in that great marbled hall. But now I want 446 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: to hear about your political guts, because you are both 447 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: United States senators, and you have a pretty good sense 448 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: of which way the winds are blowing. So we know 449 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: that we shouldn't go past nine justices on the Court. 450 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: But will we, Senator Lee, I believe we will not. 451 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: I believe in something that's a statement attributed to Winston Churchill, 452 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: that the American people can always be counted on to 453 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: do the right thing. After they've exhausted every other alternative, 454 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: and because I believe in the American people, I don't 455 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: believe will do that. I think the American people will 456 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: stop it. But you know that part remains unwritten. It's 457 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: up to us to decide that. But I want the 458 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: American people to be armed with this, So whether they 459 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: buy the book or not is less important to me 460 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: than that people read this. I want all of your 461 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: readers to be able to read this. So if you 462 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: want to just buy one copy and loan it thousands 463 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: of times, that's fine too. But read this book. Read 464 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: Saving Nine for a couple of reasons. Number One, Senator. 465 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: At first, I just have to interrupt you very quickly, 466 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: before you know, you are just such a kind, polite, 467 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: nice man. But absolutely you should not be sharing this 468 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: book with your friends. Go buy the book. Put your 469 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: money on the line, folks. Absolutely you're going to launch 470 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: your own copy. Sorry digression over you were saying. And 471 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: they do sell it on Amazon, thank you, Michael. But yeah, 472 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: so buy your copy of Saving Nine and read it, 473 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: because when you read it, you're going to be armed 474 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: with the facts. You're going to be armed with the 475 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: arguments that you'll need to make in fact, once you 476 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: read Saving Nine, you will never lose another political argument 477 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: again in your life. It's not just about the Supreme Court. 478 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: This is about the fundamental relationship between the three branches 479 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: of our government, and the relationship between the federal government 480 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: and the states. In the end, it's also about the 481 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: relationship between the individual and society, the individual and government 482 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: in general. And so this book is a first of 483 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: its kind. It synthesizes all of these points and will 484 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: allow the American people to stand up to this form 485 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: of attempted tyranny. But we have to be able to 486 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: recognize it as such, and we need to be armed 487 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: with the facts in order to be able to stop it. 488 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: You asked a minute ago politically, what is the likelihood 489 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: of the left succeeding in packing the court? And I 490 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: agree with Mike. I think it's not going to happen. 491 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: But I also think we are unbelievably close to it happening. 492 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: So my last book was one vote away, and the 493 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: Senate on this, I think we're two votes away. We 494 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: are two votes away. Joe Mansion and Kirsten Cinema are 495 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: the only two Democrats who are refusing to end the filibuster. 496 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: There are fifty Democrats in the Senate, forty eight of 497 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: them are ready to do so we're two votes away. 498 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: If those two votes flip, they'll end the filibuster. And 499 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: I think if they end the filibuster, they will pack 500 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: the cord, you know, the way you open the pod, Michael. 501 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: The pressure from the left lighting their hair on fire. 502 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: If and when the Dabb's decision comes down an overturns Row. 503 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: We've already seen crazy left wing activists rowing up in 504 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: kayaks to yell at mansion, at his house, bow and 505 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: chasing Kirsten Cinema into the ladies room. That's how bad 506 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: it's been. And to use a spinal tap reference, I 507 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: think they'll take it to eleven. So I hope and 508 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: believe Joe and Kirsten will withstand that pressure. But understand 509 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: how unbelievably close we are to this happening, and why 510 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: it matters to engage and not to wake up one 511 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: day a week after the Supreme Court decision and go, 512 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: oh crap, we now have a thirteen justice court. That 513 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: is the key. The urgency here is the key. The 514 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: best time to have figured this out and fight back 515 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: against it is yesterday. The second best time is today, 516 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: And Senator Lee, I think your book is a wonderful 517 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: contribution to that fight. Thank you. I certainly think so too, 518 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: And I want to emphasize what Ted is saying here. 519 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: The pressure that those two are under is immense. When 520 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: you couple that with the amount of emotional intensity it's 521 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: likely to flow from at Dabb's ruling one that reflects 522 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: the draft opinion of Justice Alito. And by the way, you're, 523 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: regardless of how you think you stand on roversus way, 524 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: everyone should read Justice Alito's masterpiece of a draft majority opinion. 525 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: In that case, it's phenomenal. It makes the case abundantly 526 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: clear as to why this is an issue to be 527 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: decided by lawmakers rather than judges. But the pressure that 528 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: they're going to feel is going to be intense. The 529 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: bad things that happen in government, they're always due to 530 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: what's coined to be an emergency or an exception. And 531 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: the pressure that we've brought to bear on Mansion and 532 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: Cinema will focus on the fact that, look, this time 533 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: it's different. They got rid of Row. That's you know, 534 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: that's a sacrament on the left, and so this one 535 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: could flip, and that's why we've got to be ready. 536 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: The only way we can be ready is if people, 537 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: not just lawmakers, but Americans generally, if we're educated on 538 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,479 Speaker 1: the facts, if we understand what happens, what happens when 539 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: you even threatened to pack the court, then we can 540 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: stop it. Otherwise it's going to be an uphill slog 541 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: one that we might eventually lose. That is why people, 542 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: right now the show's over, there's no more to listen to. 543 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: You now have the opportunity to go order the book. 544 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: By the way, Michael, I gotta say just there. I 545 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: loved that you channeled Ferris Bueller at the end of 546 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: the movie. Go home. The movie's over, it's done, go home, 547 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: it's done. The podcast is done, well, you know. I 548 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: also I don't want to leave without saying one, congratulations 549 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: on the book, Senatorally. Two congratulations on being our only 550 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: repeat guest. We're going to have to make it a 551 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: three peat very soon. Thank you for coming. Best of 552 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: luck with the book. I know it's going to be 553 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: a big hit. Everyone should go buy it. Senator Cruz, 554 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: thank you as always for being on your own show. 555 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz. This 556 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: episode of Very with Ted Cruz is being brought to 557 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, a political action 558 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and candidates across 559 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: the country. In twenty twenty two, Jobs Freedom and Security 560 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress 561 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: and help the Republican Party across the nation.